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if you could have what would be called like the Thomas Seager protocol for ice like the Thomas Seager protocol for ice bat so like for like just a normal bat so like for like just a normal person say me 35-year-old male like what person say me 35-year-old male like what would be the Thomas Seager protocol would be the Thomas Seager protocol whatever protocol works for me is uh whatever protocol works for me is uh Irrelevant for you Mike that I can tell Irrelevant for you Mike that I can tell you what I do but that's me my body and you what I do but that's me my body and your body are different and nothing your body are different and nothing matters more than your n equals 1 matters more than your n equals 1 experience this is something that I've experience this is something that I've changed about my science because you changed about my science because you know I'm a engineering faculty member at know I'm a engineering faculty member at Arizona State University I got my PhD I Arizona State University I got my PhD I did my dissertation I know how science did my dissertation I know how science works and when you come at me with uh works and when you come at me with uh randomized double blind controlled trial randomized double blind controlled trial and you got the P less than 0.1 I'm like and you got the P less than 0.1 I'm like look that's proof but I don't think that look that's proof but I don't think that anymore Mike I've changed my view anymore Mike I've changed my view because are you in the 99% that because are you in the 99% that responded to the experiment or are you responded to the experiment or are you in the 1% you know there's there's in the 1% you know there's there's nothing more important than what works nothing more important than what works for you so I'm never going to be one of for you so I'm never going to be one of those guys you know on Twitter that says those guys you know on Twitter that says there's no scientific study that says there's no scientific study that says the thing that you say happened to you the thing that you say happened to you actually happened to you so it didn't actually happened to you so it didn't happen like that's crap what I do is I happen like that's crap what I do is I get up in the morning I do 2 to 4 get up in the morning I do 2 to 4 minutes at 34° maybe that doesn't work minutes at 34° maybe that doesn't work for you maybe nighttime works for you for you maybe nighttime works for you and is that every day yeah so so you're and is that every day yeah so so you're seven days a week 2 to four minutes I've seven days a week 2 to four minutes I've done probably more than a thousand ice done probably more than a thousand ice baths and the funny thing is that um baths and the funny thing is that um according to Legend I should be dead according to Legend I should be dead because you know if you listen to Kelly because you know if you listen to Kelly McGonagle's got this great book it's McGonagle's got this great book it's upside of stress and it talks about upside of stress and it talks about hormesis your beliefs about stress are hormesis your beliefs about stress are more important than your experience of more important than your experience of stress if you think the stress is good stress if you think the stress is good for you and going to make you stronger for you and going to make you stronger then sure enough it can Kelly mcgonagal
then sure enough it can Kelly mcgonagal says that the stress of an ice bath is says that the stress of an ice bath is so great that if you immerse your whole so great that if you immerse your whole body in ice water it could kill you in a body in ice water it could kill you in a matter of minutes and this is why I say matter of minutes and this is why I say I guess I'm supposed to be dead by now I guess I'm supposed to be dead by now Mike obviously that's false the ice bath Mike obviously that's false the ice bath that you choose is different than you that you choose is different than you know being on the Titanic and thrown know being on the Titanic and thrown into the North Atlantic Ocean you're into the North Atlantic Ocean you're choosing to get in of your own valtion choosing to get in of your own valtion you're choosing to come out and you feel you're choosing to come out and you feel wonderful because of what's happening to wonderful because of what's happening to your nervous system and what's happening your nervous system and what's happening to your metabolism so for me the right to your metabolism so for me the right amount of time is 2 to 4 minutes and the amount of time is 2 to 4 minutes and the right temperature is 34° I'm not normal right temperature is 34° I'm not normal I'm tired of being normal because normal I'm tired of being normal because normal for a 52 well I'm going to be 58 this for a 52 well I'm going to be 58 this year normal for somebody in his 50s like year normal for somebody in his 50s like me is sick normal is being on three me is sick normal is being on three different prescriptions but here's one different prescriptions but here's one for your blood pressure here's one for for your blood pressure here's one for your cholesterol you know normal I'm not your cholesterol you know normal I'm not interested so uh I can't tell you what interested so uh I can't tell you what the right protocol for a normal guy is the right protocol for a normal guy is what I can tell you is start out so that what I can tell you is start out so that it is cold enough to make you gasp and it is cold enough to make you gasp and stay in long enough to feel the shiver stay in long enough to feel the shiver if you do those two things then you're if you do those two things then you're in touch with your own body and you will in touch with your own body and you will find like the right pathway for you you find like the right pathway for you you can go a little colder and a little can go a little colder and a little colder and a little colder as your body colder and a little colder as your body acclimates and then maybe the right acclimates and then maybe the right protocol for you will be something like protocol for you will be something like what I do or or what Joe does or what what I do or or what Joe does or what other people who are ice bathing every other people who are ice bathing every day will do and are you dunking your day will do and are you dunking your head every day you know not every day head every day you know not every day but most days I do I always breathe I but most days I do I always breathe I never hold my breath that might be never hold my breath that might be because I'm a wimp about it um but 11 because I'm a wimp about it um but 11 seconds is the longest I've ever been seconds is the longest I've ever been underwater and at that point I have a underwater and at that point I have a panic attack so I go under and I breathe panic attack so I go under and I breathe out through my nose I blow bubbles just out through my nose I blow bubbles just like my mom who taught me how to swim like my mom who taught me how to swim you know you know uh said I'm supposed to do I try and
uh said I'm supposed to do I try and keep the top of my head close to the keep the top of my head close to the surface of the water uh but I really surface of the water uh but I really like the feeling of the ice water on my like the feeling of the ice water on my face I feel like it tightens up my skin face I feel like it tightens up my skin um I I just like the sensation and of um I I just like the sensation and of course I have a lot of magnesium in my course I have a lot of magnesium in my water Epsom salt magnesium sulfate I put water Epsom salt magnesium sulfate I put about six or seven pounds in mine and I about six or seven pounds in mine and I like the feeling of the salt on my face like the feeling of the salt on my face and on my skin cuz again it reminds me and on my skin cuz again it reminds me of a kid being a kid playing at the of a kid being a kid playing at the beach so I dunk my head but I don't tell beach so I dunk my head but I don't tell anybody to right same um and which epson anybody to right same um and which epson salts by the way interesting fact normal salts by the way interesting fact normal chillers the salt is going to corrode chillers the salt is going to corrode all the piping that's what I've I've all the piping that's what I've I've heard anyway I've never tested that the heard anyway I've never tested that the um the chillers are they have a heat um the chillers are they have a heat exchanger in them that's made of exchanger in them that's made of aluminum and they pump the water out of aluminum and they pump the water out of the tub in through the chiller they the tub in through the chiller they bring it into contact with the aluminum bring it into contact with the aluminum and then they return the water back to and then they return the water back to the tub now that's not the way we work the tub now that's not the way we work uh we have a filtration system but uh we have a filtration system but instead of bringing the water to the instead of bringing the water to the cold we bring the cold to the water so cold we bring the cold to the water so we're constantly circulating the water we're constantly circulating the water through the filtration system but the through the filtration system but the refrigeration coils are underneath the refrigeration coils are underneath the tub and they're maybe 5° fah that's what tub and they're maybe 5° fah that's what extracts the heat out of the water extracts the heat out of the water that's why the ice forms on the bottom that's why the ice forms on the bottom the chiller units are cheap ER and the chiller units are cheap ER and easier to build but they can't get as easier to build but they can't get as cold because you can't pump ice so when cold because you can't pump ice so when the water comes into contact with the the water comes into contact with the aluminum heat exchanger a little bit of aluminum heat exchanger a little bit of that aluminum metal will dissolve into that aluminum metal will dissolve into the water aluminum is not good for you I the water aluminum is not good for you I don't want it anywhere near my water don't want it anywhere near my water it's used in water treatment they use it's used in water treatment they use aluminum sulfate to coagulate particles aluminum sulfate to coagulate particles and clarify the water at the treatment and clarify the water at the treatment plant then of course they add fluoride plant then of course they add fluoride and then they add chlorine and they put and then they add chlorine and they put it in the water distribution Network so it in the water distribution Network so it comes out of your tap and they tell it comes out of your tap and they tell you that it's safe to drink that's
you that it's safe to drink that's normal and I'm paranoid so I don't drink normal and I'm paranoid so I don't drink fluoridated aluminum treated water when fluoridated aluminum treated water when the aluminum comes into contact with the the aluminum comes into contact with the water in the chiller a little bit of water in the chiller a little bit of that aluminum dissolves into the water that aluminum dissolves into the water the worst thing that you can do is have the worst thing that you can do is have fluoride in contact with aluminum that fluoride in contact with aluminum that will accelerate the dissolution of the will accelerate the dissolution of the aluminum into the water so if you're aluminum into the water so if you're using tap water and there's a little using tap water and there's a little fluoride in there yeah it will interact fluoride in there yeah it will interact with the aluminum you can say well you with the aluminum you can say well you know it's inconsequential and it know it's inconsequential and it probably is I just don't want it probably is I just don't want it anywhere near me sulfate is largely anywhere near me sulfate is largely benign that is the interaction between benign that is the interaction between aluminum and sulfate not that great and aluminum and sulfate not that great and this is why you can dissolve a hell of a this is why you can dissolve a hell of a lot of magnesium sulfate but the forge lot of magnesium sulfate but the forge that we make will take all the Epsom that we make will take all the Epsom salt you can dissolve in it I've done as salt you can dissolve in it I've done as much as 9 lbs but we can dissolve more much as 9 lbs but we can dissolve more if that's what you want the thing is if that's what you want the thing is when you get out and you know I drip all when you get out and you know I drip all over my patio and it leaves salt stains over my patio and it leaves salt stains behind on my patio I'm like okay I have behind on my patio I'm like okay I have enough I'm not running a float tank here enough I'm not running a float tank here you know I have enough salt but I can't you know I have enough salt but I can't vouch for what happens with other brands vouch for what happens with other brands their piping or their heat exchangers their piping or their heat exchangers that kind of thing I under the that kind of thing I under the impression that they don't really last impression that they don't really last too long with the uh erosion from the too long with the uh erosion from the salt cuz goes through the whole system salt cuz goes through the whole system and I hear it just just wears it wears and I hear it just just wears it wears it away someday I'll test it yeah it away someday I'll test it yeah something i' I thought like I I haven't something i' I thought like I I haven't tested it either what we never do is add tested it either what we never do is add chloride salts I don't want them in the chloride salts I don't want them in the Morosco because I don't want chlorine Morosco because I don't want chlorine anywhere near any of the people who are anywhere near any of the people who are taking an ice path you can say well taking an ice path you can say well chloride like in dead seed salts um you chloride like in dead seed salts um you can say chloride is not the same as can say chloride is not the same as chlorine and it's not but because the chlorine and it's not but because the ozone is so powerful when the chloride ozone is so powerful when the chloride comes in contact with the ozone it can comes in contact with the ozone it can change the veence state of the chloride change the veence state of the chloride it can make um instead of chloride minus it can make um instead of chloride minus one charge it can make a chlorine
one charge it can make a chlorine molecule with a different molecule with a different charge that's not what you I want charge that's not what you I want anywhere near my customers and so keep anywhere near my customers and so keep the chloride salts out of your morasco the chloride salts out of your morasco not just because they're corrosive not just because they're corrosive although we make ours out of stainless although we make ours out of stainless steel if you've if you got anything but steel if you've if you got anything but the original morasco Forge it's made of the original morasco Forge it's made of a stainless steel tub and that's highly a stainless steel tub and that's highly resistant to corrosion if you've got the resistant to corrosion if you've got the original Morosco for that's made out of original Morosco for that's made out of zinc galvanized steel and the chloride zinc galvanized steel and the chloride will reduce the longevity of the tub so will reduce the longevity of the tub so that's another reason not to put it in that's another reason not to put it in but mostly I just don't want to mix the but mostly I just don't want to mix the ozone and the chloride I don't want the ozone and the chloride I don't want the byproducts that will come out of mixing byproducts that will come out of mixing those two those two so one somewhat debated Topic in the uh so one somewhat debated Topic in the uh ice bath World should you ice bath ice bath World should you ice bath before you work out or after you work before you work out or after you work out depends on what you're going for um out depends on what you're going for um if you're in training and you're trying if you're in training and you're trying to build muscle mass uh if you're trying to build muscle mass uh if you're trying to speed your recovery after a workout to speed your recovery after a workout ice bath ice bath before even this is the counterintuitive before even this is the counterintuitive thing people who are listening to me and thing people who are listening to me and listening to Joe understand that listening to Joe understand that precooling will give you big gains precooling will give you big gains Andrew huberman did a podcast with Craig Andrew huberman did a podcast with Craig heler who's a Stanford faculty member heler who's a Stanford faculty member he's done a lot on what's called per he's done a lot on what's called per cooling that is Cooling in the middle of cooling that is Cooling in the middle of your workout uh and the principle is the your workout uh and the principle is the same you keep your mitochondria cool you same you keep your mitochondria cool you get big power boost from your muscles get big power boost from your muscles and you extend your endurance so if what and you extend your endurance so if what you're going for is immediate you're going for is immediate performance or anabolic gains what human performance or anabolic gains what human calls calls hypertrophy that is growth of your hypertrophy that is growth of your muscles uh if you're going for that test muscles uh if you're going for that test testosterone boost then ice bath before testosterone boost then ice bath before but there are some special situations but there are some special situations where you might want to ice bath after where you might want to ice bath after uh say you're a tennis player you're in uh say you're a tennis player you're in the middle of a tournament and it's a the middle of a tournament and it's a multi-day tournament well you know after multi-day tournament well you know after you've just done I don't know seven sets
you've just done I don't know seven sets and it's grueling that you're going to and it's grueling that you're going to experience that muscle soreness and you experience that muscle soreness and you want to come back fast to Performance want to come back fast to Performance level again ice bath after your exercise level again ice bath after your exercise uh cycling can go on for days tour to uh cycling can go on for days tour to France or whatever it is you might uh France or whatever it is you might uh use the ice bath after the strenuous use the ice bath after the strenuous exercise to reduce delayed onset muscle exercise to reduce delayed onset muscle soreness and to bring you back to soreness and to bring you back to Performance level cuz you're you're not Performance level cuz you're you're not in training anymore now you need the in training anymore now you need the rapid recovery the reduction of rapid recovery the reduction of inflammation so you can get right back inflammation so you can get right back up to Performance level sometimes other up to Performance level sometimes other tournaments uh golf um I'm trying to tournaments uh golf um I'm trying to think of other special situations Give think of other special situations Give an example when my son was playing an example when my son was playing baseball move to Arizona you got a baseball move to Arizona you got a double header it's 112 de out he's a double header it's 112 de out he's a catcher and he of course he's drinking a catcher and he of course he's drinking a lot and he's dripping from sweat man if lot and he's dripping from sweat man if I knew I would have put him right in the I knew I would have put him right in the ice bath between games cool him down get ice bath between games cool him down get him ready for the next game so for the him ready for the next game so for the most part you ice bath before you most part you ice bath before you exercise use the Sona for recovery after exercise use the Sona for recovery after a workout but there are some special a workout but there are some special situations where you want to come back situations where you want to come back to your performance level fast the ice to your performance level fast the ice bath can help you with that that's great bath can help you with that that's great so yeah nuanced approach But ultimately so yeah nuanced approach But ultimately before if you're looking for for gains before if you're looking for for gains but recovery get you back to Baseline but recovery get you back to Baseline the ice bath could really guess what the ice bath could really guess what there's no one right way to do it all there's no one right way to do it all the time yeah it depends upon what your the time yeah it depends upon what your goals are of course and if you so let's goals are of course and if you so let's say you're me and you plan on having a say you're me and you plan on having a big anabolic workout uh how how many big anabolic workout uh how how many hours before I work out should I plunge hours before I work out should I plunge this is an open question because this is an open question because nobody's ever really done that study but nobody's ever really done that study but the people who are direct messaging me the people who are direct messaging me they're like you know is a 20-minute Gap they're like you know is a 20-minute Gap okay is a 30 minute Gap okay and they okay is a 30 minute Gap okay and they feel like they're still getting the feel like they're still getting the benefit sometimes they got to drive to benefit sometimes they got to drive to the gym and um they're going to do heavy the gym and um they're going to do heavy weights when they get there and a little weights when they get there and a little bit of rewarming their limbs doesn't
bit of rewarming their limbs doesn't seem to hurt the benefit that they're seem to hurt the benefit that they're feeling in the gym at all but here's feeling in the gym at all but here's what I suggest let's say you have your what I suggest let's say you have your Morosco at home it's in your garage or Morosco at home it's in your garage or something do some something do some squats uh do some pull-ups do some squats uh do some pull-ups do some push-ups do some basic body weight do push-ups do some basic body weight do some lunges do some basic body weight some lunges do some basic body weight exercises me I like to get my steel mace exercises me I like to get my steel mace out you know I feel tough I swing it out you know I feel tough I swing it around my head it doesn't take a lot of around my head it doesn't take a lot of exercise to boost your testosterone exercise to boost your testosterone levels so you can do a little bit of levels so you can do a little bit of rewarming with some light exercise and rewarming with some light exercise and then you can go big see if you get that then you can go big see if you get that 20 to 30% Peak power Improvement see if 20 to 30% Peak power Improvement see if you're able to do a PR you know personal you're able to do a PR you know personal record based upon your precooling and if record based upon your precooling and if you find that is satisfactory but you you find that is satisfactory but you don't need to get the testosterone don't need to get the testosterone benefits you don't need a lot of benefits you don't need a lot of exercise and the Japanese study they exercise and the Japanese study they went on the stationary bike for 20 went on the stationary bike for 20 minutes that's all it took what was the minutes that's all it took what was the study this was a study 1991 in Japan and study this was a study 1991 in Japan and they wanted to understand the they wanted to understand the relationship between cold exposure and relationship between cold exposure and testosterone so they did what everybody testosterone so they did what everybody does they uh got these young men and does they uh got these young men and they gave them some exercise and then they gave them some exercise and then they did the cold and sure enough their they did the cold and sure enough their testosterone went down when they do the testosterone went down when they do the cold cold after the exercise testosterone goes after the exercise testosterone goes down luteinizing hormone goes down and down luteinizing hormone goes down and for some reason the Japanese in 91 they for some reason the Japanese in 91 they reversed the order they said first we're reversed the order they said first we're going to do cold stimulation and then going to do cold stimulation and then we're going to put them on the exercise we're going to put them on the exercise bite testosterone went up lutenizing bite testosterone went up lutenizing hormone went up they weren't throwing hormone went up they weren't throwing kettle bells around they weren't doing kettle bells around they weren't doing dead lifts they just went on the dead lifts they just went on the exercise bike for 20 minutes just to exercise bike for 20 minutes just to restore the circulation to their limbs restore the circulation to their limbs it doesn't take a lot of exercise to it doesn't take a lot of exercise to boost your testosterone levels have have boost your testosterone levels have have you seen any studies about boosting you seen any studies about boosting testosterone levels for sauna after testosterone levels for sauna after workout I have not it's a really good
workout I have not it's a really good idea there are studies about um exercise idea there are studies about um exercise and then Sona for Recovery now I haven't and then Sona for Recovery now I haven't gone deep into them like I'm a cold guy gone deep into them like I'm a cold guy but Mike mutell is really good on this but Mike mutell is really good on this stuff if you go on his YouTube channel stuff if you go on his YouTube channel he'll read some of the studies for you he'll read some of the studies for you and Sona turns out to be a terrific way and Sona turns out to be a terrific way to recover from a strenuous workout what to recover from a strenuous workout what nobody has done is ice bath exercise nobody has done is ice bath exercise Sona there's been studies of ice bath Sona there's been studies of ice bath and exercise which works great there's and exercise which works great there's been studies of exercise and Sona which been studies of exercise and Sona which works great and there isn't a single works great and there isn't a single study of this sort of triple stack ice study of this sort of triple stack ice bath exercise then Sona what happens bath exercise then Sona what happens right interesting yeah I'd like to hear right interesting yeah I'd like to hear from the people who are trying it yeah from the people who are trying it yeah same um so then so of course contrast same um so then so of course contrast therapy then is sitting in the sauna therapy then is sitting in the sauna then ice bath then back to sauna then ice bath then back to sauna Unlimited Loop what's your thoughts on Unlimited Loop what's your thoughts on contrast therapy the advantage to contrast therapy the advantage to contrast therapy is that you get vasil contrast therapy is that you get vasil constriction in the ice bth and then you constriction in the ice bth and then you get vasod dilation in the Sona both the get vasod dilation in the Sona both the ice bath and the Sona are really good ice bath and the Sona are really good for your cardiovascular system you can for your cardiovascular system you can get your heart rate up in the Sona for get your heart rate up in the Sona for example and that's like an exercise example and that's like an exercise mimimic they're really good for your mimimic they're really good for your circulatory system they improve circulatory system they improve circulation especially in the circulation especially in the extremities the extremities the capillaries but what you got to avoid capillaries but what you got to avoid is ice bath Hot Tub it feels like it's is ice bath Hot Tub it feels like it's thermal contrast you're like hey I'm thermal contrast you're like hey I'm doing cold I'm doing hot people don't doing cold I'm doing hot people don't understand the way the hot tub works understand the way the hot tub works though your body knows when your skin is though your body knows when your skin is wet in the dry Sona you're sweating like wet in the dry Sona you're sweating like crazy and it's the heat of evaporation crazy and it's the heat of evaporation so when the sweat evaporates off your so when the sweat evaporates off your skin it takes a lot of the heat with it skin it takes a lot of the heat with it that's how your body is designed to stay that's how your body is designed to stay cool when you get in the hot tub your cool when you get in the hot tub your body understands that you're skin is wet body understands that you're skin is wet there's no point in sweating in any part there's no point in sweating in any part of your body that it's not going to of your body that it's not going to evaporate so in the hot tub you'll sweat
evaporate so in the hot tub you'll sweat through your scalp and if your arms are through your scalp and if your arms are not in you'll sweat through your arms not in you'll sweat through your arms but everything that's underwater in the but everything that's underwater in the hot tub will not sweat to defend your hot tub will not sweat to defend your core body temperature and to prevent you core body temperature and to prevent you from overheating in the hot tub your from overheating in the hot tub your body does Vaso constriction so if you're body does Vaso constriction so if you're in the ice bath for Vaso constriction in the ice bath for Vaso constriction and then you get in the hot tub you're and then you get in the hot tub you're getting double Vaso constriction and getting double Vaso constriction and you're missing the Vaso dilation you're missing the Vaso dilation benefits of thermal contrast therapy I benefits of thermal contrast therapy I mean you can do it but it's not thermal mean you can do it but it's not thermal contrast therapy in the way that we contrast therapy in the way that we think of it for circulatory and think of it for circulatory and cardiovascular benefits yeah that makes cardiovascular benefits yeah that makes perfect sense so you're you're just not perfect sense so you're you're just not getting that pumping and you're not getting that pumping and you're not really getting that blood flow that you really getting that blood flow that you get from from a cold ponde you're just get from from a cold ponde you're just cutting off that whole aspect yep of it cutting off that whole aspect yep of it but hot tubs man they feel great so I but hot tubs man they feel great so I you know I can't tell people don't do you know I can't tell people don't do something that feels great I'm in the something that feels great I'm in the business here of marting a product that business here of marting a product that feels like crap like when the first 30 feels like crap like when the first 30 seconds you get in there you're like seconds you get in there you're like what was I thinking and then when you what was I thinking and then when you get out it feels great yeah yeah and get out it feels great yeah yeah and I'll tell you what for me anyway like I'll tell you what for me anyway like hot tubs make my skin feel terrible like hot tubs make my skin feel terrible like I feel like the pores are all open I I feel like the pores are all open I feel dry when I get out of a cold Pune feel dry when I get out of a cold Pune my Skin's tight you know I feel electric my Skin's tight you know I feel electric I feel like I'm Aging in Reverse in the I feel like I'm Aging in Reverse in the hot tub you can't disinfect the water hot tub you can't disinfect the water you can't sanitize it without chlorine you can't sanitize it without chlorine this is why most of the boards of Health this is why most of the boards of Health require chlorine disinfection for public require chlorine disinfection for public hot tubs now they sell ozone units for hot tubs now they sell ozone units for hot tubs the problem with ozone is it hot tubs the problem with ozone is it has a very short halflife so it's highly has a very short halflife so it's highly reactive and highly unstable it's just reactive and highly unstable it's just three oxygen molecules but those three three oxygen molecules but those three oxygen molecules will break apart into oxygen molecules will break apart into regular O2 and it happens fast the regular O2 and it happens fast the hotter the water the higher the hotter the water the higher the temperature the more quickly that is the temperature the more quickly that is the shorter the half life of the ozone that shorter the half life of the ozone that is the faster the ozone degrades back is the faster the ozone degrades back into oxygen so to maintain an O an ozone into oxygen so to maintain an O an ozone concentration in the water the water has
concentration in the water the water has to be cold most of the ozone generators to be cold most of the ozone generators that are built for hot tubs they don't that are built for hot tubs they don't work at all I tested like 12 different work at all I tested like 12 different varieties and they were all essentially varieties and they were all essentially cosmetic like they weren't putting out cosmetic like they weren't putting out the ozone that they advertised and even the ozone that they advertised and even if they did at the warmer temperatures if they did at the warmer temperatures the ozone wouldn't last so we had to the ozone wouldn't last so we had to settle on one brand that was really settle on one brand that was really freaking good when I was first testing freaking good when I was first testing it since then they've improved and a it since then they've improved and a couple other brands have come in to make couple other brands have come in to make ozone because that works at colder ozone because that works at colder temperatures we get just enough life to temperatures we get just enough life to the ozone so that we can keep the water the ozone so that we can keep the water from uh allowing infection to spread from uh allowing infection to spread then we get super concentrated ozone at then we get super concentrated ozone at the point of injection so that we can the point of injection so that we can deactivate Ebola virus in like less than deactivate Ebola virus in like less than a second with the ozone concent ations a second with the ozone concent ations that we've been able to achieve the EPA that we've been able to achieve the EPA knows about this ozone has been used in knows about this ozone has been used in water treatment plants in Europe for water treatment plants in Europe for years there's some water treatment years there's some water treatment plants in the United States that use it plants in the United States that use it too but they still add chlorine because too but they still add chlorine because they need that long-term residual they they need that long-term residual they need to keep the pipes disinfected and need to keep the pipes disinfected and ozone will degrade before it even gets ozone will degrade before it even gets to your faucet that would leave the to your faucet that would leave the water distribution Network vulnerable to water distribution Network vulnerable to an invasion of pathogens and they can't an invasion of pathogens and they can't have that so forget why chlorine is in have that so forget why chlorine is in your tap water and ozone never will be your tap water and ozone never will be but chlorine will never be in your but chlorine will never be in your Morosco because ozone is the ideal Morosco because ozone is the ideal disinfectant for cold disinfectant for cold temperatures yeah and that's one thing temperatures yeah and that's one thing that I've just was not ready for and that I've just was not ready for and super impressed by with just visiting super impressed by with just visiting your facility is just how much you guys your facility is just how much you guys are testing ozone non-stop like it's are testing ozone non-stop like it's like you've never you're not even com like you've never you're not even com like you're not even comfortable with like you're not even comfortable with your solution like you're just always your solution like you're just always finding more and more and that's finding more and more and that's something that I was definitely not something that I was definitely not expecting and one thing that I've also expecting and one thing that I've also like notice just being in the ice bath like notice just being in the ice bath industry for as long as I have is that industry for as long as I have is that like every everyone has their preferred like every everyone has their preferred ozone and everyone says this one doesn't ozone and everyone says this one doesn't work and that one doesn't work and you
work and that one doesn't work and you go on Amazon there's like a $20 ozone go on Amazon there's like a $20 ozone there's a $150 ozone so not all ozon are there's a $150 ozone so not all ozon are created equally and I love that you guys created equally and I love that you guys are just constantly testing running your are just constantly testing running your own experiments and just always just own experiments and just always just trying to make that better because trying to make that better because disinfecting a a coal plunge is like one disinfecting a a coal plunge is like one of the most important features of the of the most important features of the coal Pune you want a sanitary and it's coal Pune you want a sanitary and it's true that as a first approximation none true that as a first approximation none of the ozone gen works like we just of the ozone gen works like we just threw two more out today uh two threw two more out today uh two different brands and it turns out that different brands and it turns out that they don't operate unless you keep the they don't operate unless you keep the voltage like super precise if you allow voltage like super precise if you allow the voltage to vary and there's going to the voltage to vary and there's going to be voltage variation if the compressor be voltage variation if the compressor comes on at the same time that the ozone comes on at the same time that the ozone comes you're going to get a voltage comes you're going to get a voltage variation or there could be a surge that variation or there could be a surge that goes through the circuit in your home goes through the circuit in your home and if that fries the ozone then it's no and if that fries the ozone then it's no good so the best ozone generator if you good so the best ozone generator if you got a hot tub or you're doing a DIY at got a hot tub or you're doing a DIY at home is made by Dell ozone I know this home is made by Dell ozone I know this because I've tested all of them Del because I've tested all of them Del ozone's also the most expensive one and ozone's also the most expensive one and it kind of makes sense there are less it kind of makes sense there are less expensive Brands and we would love to expensive Brands and we would love to save a little bit of money but we save a little bit of money but we submerge them to make sure that they'll submerge them to make sure that they'll operate if they still get wet we ensure operate if they still get wet we ensure that they cannot introduce stray that they cannot introduce stray electrical currents we uh will make sure electrical currents we uh will make sure that if there's a backflow of water into that if there's a backflow of water into the ozone gen that after the water is the ozone gen that after the water is drains back out the ozone gen will still drains back out the ozone gen will still work and of course we measure how much work and of course we measure how much ozone they put out I've heard of people ozone they put out I've heard of people Cole plunging and their testicles like Cole plunging and their testicles like shoot up into their cavities uh shoot up into their cavities uh sometimes get lodged up in there uh is sometimes get lodged up in there uh is that dangerous what what's your thought that dangerous what what's your thought on that I don't know uh that's not been on that I don't know uh that's not been my experience um I know me neither I've my experience um I know me neither I've right I'm not a medical doctor and I right I'm not a medical doctor and I wouldn't know uh you wouldn't know uh you know will you tell me though a little know will you tell me though a little bit more about what you've heard like bit more about what you've heard like you know somebody went in the ice bath you know somebody went in the ice bath and then his testicle never dropped back and then his testicle never dropped back down correct he had to like dislodge it
down correct he had to like dislodge it back down wait mean he had to poke on it back down wait mean he had to poke on it himself yeah well then it did come down himself yeah well then it did come down well it did yeah it came down but like well it did yeah it came down but like it it was I mean it definitely jarring it it was I mean it definitely jarring to hear that it's a possibility that you to hear that it's a possibility that you could get in and your testicles could could get in and your testicles could shoot up and like you have to like jar shoot up and like you have to like jar them back down I mean I understand why them back down I mean I understand why men would be sensitive about what men would be sensitive about what happens with their testicles um and so I happens with their testicles um and so I can see how that would feel like a bad can see how that would feel like a bad experience it's not been my experience I experience it's not been my experience I haven't read any studies about it uh so haven't read any studies about it uh so I don't know yeah however there's a lot I don't know yeah however there's a lot of jokes about you know the Seinfeld of jokes about you know the Seinfeld episode with the shrinkage and what episode with the shrinkage and what happens to male anatomy when they're in happens to male anatomy when they're in the ice paath there was this really the ice paath there was this really funny was a catchy song uh called I lost funny was a catchy song uh called I lost my penis in an ice bath it was my penis in an ice bath it was circulating around Instagram it's pretty circulating around Instagram it's pretty funny but I couldn't repost it because funny but I couldn't repost it because my experience is different Ben my experience is different Ben Greenfield wrote that an ice bath is Greenfield wrote that an ice bath is like Viagra for your whole body and you like Viagra for your whole body and you really got to understand the science really got to understand the science behind it to understand where he's behind it to understand where he's coming from the endothelial cells that coming from the endothelial cells that surround your blood vessels they are surround your blood vessels they are responsible for making nitric oxide that responsible for making nitric oxide that will signal Vaso dilation in the smooth will signal Vaso dilation in the smooth muscle tissue that will either cut off muscle tissue that will either cut off the blood circulation or open up the the blood circulation or open up the blood circulation phasal dilation is blood circulation phasal dilation is essential to an erection because you've essential to an erection because you've got to connect the penis straight up to got to connect the penis straight up to the heart increase the blood pressure in the heart increase the blood pressure in the penis to maintain an erection so the penis to maintain an erection so those endothelial cells that trigger the those endothelial cells that trigger the erection they use mitochondria to make erection they use mitochondria to make the energy to synthesize the nitric the energy to synthesize the nitric oxide that causes the relaxation in the oxide that causes the relaxation in the smooth muscle tissue like there's whole smooth muscle tissue like there's whole Chain Reaction erectile dysfunction is Chain Reaction erectile dysfunction is one of the first clinical markers of one of the first clinical markers of metabolic disorder it means your met metabolic disorder it means your met mitochondria aren't working right and so mitochondria aren't working right and so now a guy goes to the doctor and he now a guy goes to the doctor and he reports he's having difficulty with reports he's having difficulty with erections and the doctor's like this is
erections and the doctor's like this is a metabolic disorder it can also be a metabolic disorder it can also be psychological but it's a clinical marker psychological but it's a clinical marker now the doctor has to test his insulin now the doctor has to test his insulin sensitivity see where his metabolism is sensitivity see where his metabolism is at Viagra works by overcoming insulin at Viagra works by overcoming insulin resistance not by healing your resistance not by healing your mitochondria but by overcoming the mitochondria but by overcoming the insulin resistance in the endothelial insulin resistance in the endothelial cell that is actually trying to protect cell that is actually trying to protect the mitochondria from further damage the mitochondria from further damage Viagra it can work for women as well as Viagra it can work for women as well as it works for men women have erectile it works for men women have erectile tissue it operates the same way but tissue it operates the same way but nobody really thinks about it because nobody really thinks about it because it's not essential to the sexual it's not essential to the sexual function of a woman but this effect of function of a woman but this effect of overcoming insulin resistance Works overcoming insulin resistance Works throughout the body it can also be used throughout the body it can also be used for example to treat traumatic brain for example to treat traumatic brain injury in infants because they need the injury in infants because they need the additional circulation they need the additional circulation they need the mitochondrial function for their brains mitochondrial function for their brains to heal so Viagra works systemically by to heal so Viagra works systemically by overcoming insulin resistance and ice overcoming insulin resistance and ice bath works systemically by eliminating bath works systemically by eliminating the insulin resistance by stimulating the insulin resistance by stimulating myio biogenesis to so it heals your myio biogenesis to so it heals your mitochondria so you no longer need to be mitochondria so you no longer need to be insulin resistant in this way an ice insulin resistant in this way an ice bath will improve male sexual bath will improve male sexual performance that has nothing to do with performance that has nothing to do with where your testicle are suppose it's where your testicle are suppose it's just the irony of these jokes about you just the irony of these jokes about you know lost your penis um yeah that's know lost your penis um yeah that's never happened to me uh so I don't worry never happened to me uh so I don't worry about it so much yeah same and I about it so much yeah same and I obviously agree with what Ben says that obviously agree with what Ben says that literally Viagra for your body I mean literally Viagra for your body I mean for me that was like one of the first for me that was like one of the first things like if you were to ask me like things like if you were to ask me like what do you why do you ice bath as you what do you why do you ice bath as you actually did last night at dinner I I actually did last night at dinner I I said well for one makes me horny as hell said well for one makes me horny as hell and that's just one one thing amongst and that's just one one thing amongst many so AJ made me promise that I would many so AJ made me promise that I would not do anything intentionally that would not do anything intentionally that would further raise my testosterone she says further raise my testosterone she says she's tired you know it's in a
she's tired you know it's in a monogamous relationship it could be hard monogamous relationship it could be hard for people to keep up so I sometimes I for people to keep up so I sometimes I get text messages like I say men don't get text messages like I say men don't talk enough about this but uh there talk enough about this but uh there might be a guy a little older than me might be a guy a little older than me and he says you know Professor Seager and he says you know Professor Seager I'm starting to get those nighttime I'm starting to get those nighttime erections again is that normal and it's erections again is that normal and it's it's okay for to darn right that it on it's okay for to darn right that it on the one hand it's not normal because the one hand it's not normal because guys your age are all sick it's healthy guys your age are all sick it's healthy I can tell you that and most of the men I can tell you that and most of the men are pretty happy with the results yeah are pretty happy with the results yeah MH for MH for sure um cool so I have seen you talk sure um cool so I have seen you talk about cold plunging in regards to our about cold plunging in regards to our hunter gather hunter gather ancestors topic that I love so like in ancestors topic that I love so like in what in what respects do you think our what in what respects do you think our hunter get gatherers would have cold hunter get gatherers would have cold plunged like I can't imagine they did it plunged like I can't imagine they did it for the same reasons as we are like I for the same reasons as we are like I can't imagine our hunter gatherers as can't imagine our hunter gatherers as biohackers but maybe they were inherent biohackers but maybe they were inherent biohackers where they went in the water biohackers where they went in the water bathed in it thought it was good what do bathed in it thought it was good what do you think they didn't have to hack you think they didn't have to hack anything you know it was all there for anything you know it was all there for them they didn't have like heated them they didn't have like heated leather seats and central air leather seats and central air conditioning and things like that things conditioning and things like that things just happened to them because that was just happened to them because that was the environment that they lived in but the environment that they lived in but it's a really interesting question why it's a really interesting question why are our bodies why do we respond so well are our bodies why do we respond so well to cold plunge therapy and there are to cold plunge therapy and there are sort of ancestral origins of what sort of ancestral origins of what happens to our body it requires some happens to our body it requires some thought there's something it's kind of a thought there's something it's kind of a misnomer but it's called The Aquatic ape misnomer but it's called The Aquatic ape hypothesis it has other names and I hypothesis it has other names and I should probably refer to it by other should probably refer to it by other names but it's this idea that human names but it's this idea that human beings lived at the water's edge and beings lived at the water's edge and there's a lot of evidence for it the there's a lot of evidence for it the Aquatic ape hypothesis meant to explain Aquatic ape hypothesis meant to explain these strange anatomical features of the these strange anatomical features of the human being we share like 99% of our DNA human being we share like 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees or bonobos they're very with chimpanzees or bonobos they're very close relatives in like a metaphorical
close relatives in like a metaphorical sense why do our nostrils Point down and sense why do our nostrils Point down and there's point out why are we practically there's point out why are we practically hairless and they're covered with fur hairless and they're covered with fur there are good reasons for this because there are good reasons for this because when we dive into the water downward when we dive into the water downward facing nostrils keeps the water from facing nostrils keeps the water from going up our nose going up our nose because we are aquatic creatures why do because we are aquatic creatures why do we have subcutaneous fat that is fat we have subcutaneous fat that is fat right below our skin and fairly high right below our skin and fairly high body fat composition compared to a body fat composition compared to a chimpanzee or a bonobo which is like in chimpanzee or a bonobo which is like in the mid single digits typically wow we the mid single digits typically wow we are built to be in the water in some are built to be in the water in some cases we have more in common with cases we have more in common with dolphins or whales or the manate with dolphins or whales or the manate with these aquatic mammals then we have and these aquatic mammals then we have and these certain inexplicable atomical these certain inexplicable atomical features with chimpanzees so this features with chimpanzees so this aquatic ape hypothesis it's meant to aquatic ape hypothesis it's meant to explain why we have the anatomical explain why we have the anatomical features of aquatic mammals rather than features of aquatic mammals rather than land-based mammals here's the biggest land-based mammals here's the biggest most important one our brains are larger most important one our brains are larger and it takes a lot of DHA is a good and it takes a lot of DHA is a good example it takes a lot of these omega-3 example it takes a lot of these omega-3 fatty acids to make a big brain like fatty acids to make a big brain like human beings have where are you going to human beings have where are you going to get that you get it from the water you get that you get it from the water you get it from the fish you get it from the get it from the fish you get it from the shellfish you get it from foraging in shellfish you get it from foraging in the water the hunter gatherer that we the water the hunter gatherer that we have like sort of in our mind is maybe have like sort of in our mind is maybe you know in the Kalahari Desert and they you know in the Kalahari Desert and they run down the antelope or the wilderbeast run down the antelope or the wilderbeast or something like that because those are or something like that because those are the societies that the anthropologists the societies that the anthropologists go to if they want to study you know go to if they want to study you know human beings and hunter gatherer nomadic human beings and hunter gatherer nomadic lifestyle but that's not the way it lifestyle but that's not the way it started out you could say well the started out you could say well the oldest fossils of human beings are found oldest fossils of human beings are found in East Africa AFA East Africa is on the in East Africa AFA East Africa is on the equator you know it's really hot in East equator you know it's really hot in East Africa how the heck could we be so cold Africa how the heck could we be so cold adapted and then remember where does Vim adapted and then remember where does Vim Hoff take his trainees of Mount Hoff take his trainees of Mount kilamanjaro where's Mount kilamanjaro
kilamanjaro where's Mount kilamanjaro it's in East Africa it's right on the it's in East Africa it's right on the equator like during the Ice Age the East equator like during the Ice Age the East Africa was covered with ice because of Africa was covered with ice because of the mountains there the human beings and the mountains there the human beings and there weren't a lot of them let's say 12 there weren't a lot of them let's say 12 15,000 years ago Ice Age there were 15,000 years ago Ice Age there were maybe 10,000 human beings it's called a maybe 10,000 human beings it's called a population bottleneck and they were all population bottleneck and they were all stuck between the glacier and the ocean stuck between the glacier and the ocean the waters that they foraged in were the waters that they foraged in were cold because they were melting off the cold because they were melting off the glaciers in the mountain nobody who glaciers in the mountain nobody who couldn't adapt to the cold water survive couldn't adapt to the cold water survive the Ice Age and you say yeah but it's the Ice Age and you say yeah but it's been 10,000 years of evolution right been 10,000 years of evolution right like what do we really have in common like what do we really have in common with our ancient ancestors besides you with our ancient ancestors besides you know 10 know 10 fingers and 10 toes and the answer is we fingers and 10 toes and the answer is we have mitochondria in common my answer is have mitochondria in common my answer is everything right I mean we are everything right I mean we are anatomically not that different than the anatomically not that different than the human beings that were here you know in human beings that were here you know in in the Genesis of time if you believe in in the Genesis of time if you believe in the Garden of Eden you know then the the Garden of Eden you know then the waters that Adam and Eve bathed in were waters that Adam and Eve bathed in were cold and we have a lot in common with cold and we have a lot in common with them not necessarily in a nucleic de DNA them not necessarily in a nucleic de DNA but in our mitochondrial DNA nobody but in our mitochondrial DNA nobody explained to me in freshman biology that explained to me in freshman biology that mitochondria have their own DNA and you mitochondria have their own DNA and you inherit it exclusively from your mother inherit it exclusively from your mother that means there's no sexual that means there's no sexual reproduction of mitochondrial DNA that reproduction of mitochondrial DNA that means that I have the same mitochondrial means that I have the same mitochondrial DNA as my great great great great DNA as my great great great great grandmother did now there are mutations grandmother did now there are mutations and so there are certain Hypes but and so there are certain Hypes but because the mitochondrial DNA evolve because the mitochondrial DNA evolve much more slowly than the DNA in the much more slowly than the DNA in the nucleus we have a hell of a lot more in nucleus we have a hell of a lot more in common metabolically with the ancestors common metabolically with the ancestors that survive the Ice Age then we might that survive the Ice Age then we might think our bodies are built to expect think our bodies are built to expect cold water immersion and if you don't
cold water immersion and if you don't get it it's no wonder you lapse into a get it it's no wonder you lapse into a state of disease cold water is like state of disease cold water is like sunshine and exercise it's what your sunshine and exercise it's what your body is built for you got to give your body is built for you got to give your body the things that it's built for and body the things that it's built for and you could say well you could say well all that sounds a bit all that sounds a bit farfetched and then I got to ask you farfetched and then I got to ask you this why are human babies born with an this why are human babies born with an instinct to swim and not walk because instinct to swim and not walk because you know you've seen National Geographic you know you've seen National Geographic and the baby giraffe like falls out of and the baby giraffe like falls out of its mother and then it's running around its mother and then it's running around in the grass like two minutes later they in the grass like two minutes later they have an instinct to to run to trot like have an instinct to to run to trot like for us it would be walking but babies for us it would be walking but babies don't know how to do that they it takes don't know how to do that they it takes months for them to learn how to even months for them to learn how to even crawl right and after that tentative crawl right and after that tentative steps maybe they're a year old but human steps maybe they're a year old but human babies are born with an instinct to swim babies are born with an instinct to swim yeah why would that be because they were yeah why would that be because they were born in the cold water because our born in the cold water because our ancient grandmothers would seek out the ancient grandmothers would seek out the relief of a water birth and when that relief of a water birth and when that baby comes out in the water it's going baby comes out in the water it's going to find its way up to the surface that's to find its way up to the surface that's how it stayed alive we are aquatic how it stayed alive we are aquatic creatures we're just so far from the creatures we're just so far from the water which is really our origin yeah water which is really our origin yeah the hunting and the Gathering is the hunting and the Gathering is important because we needed those food important because we needed those food sources back then but it's the human sources back then but it's the human birthing in the water that I think birthing in the water that I think really goes to like our deepest most really goes to like our deepest most instinctive responses born in the cold instinctive responses born in the cold yeah and I and I have also heard that yeah and I and I have also heard that when babies are born and they're when babies are born and they're attached to the umbilical cord they attached to the umbilical cord they don't even need to breathe they can they don't even need to breathe they can they can inherit get the oxygen through the can inherit get the oxygen through the umbilical cord so they can actually be umbilical cord so they can actually be in water for a while and that's what in water for a while and that's what happens with home births all the time so happens with home births all the time so it's I guess based off what you're it's I guess based off what you're saying it's almost very possible that saying it's almost very possible that the babies were in submerged in cold for the babies were in submerged in cold for even longer than maybe we think I have I
even longer than maybe we think I have I don't know how long they kept them down don't know how long they kept them down there but they can but they can but they there but they can but they can but they can they can get oxygen through the can they can get oxygen through the umbilical cord for a while they can yeah umbilical cord for a while they can yeah there is a story John Huntsman was an there is a story John Huntsman was an entrepreneur one of the things that he entrepreneur one of the things that he invented was the clam shell fast food invented was the clam shell fast food container you know that got a really bad container you know that got a really bad environmental reputation but he was an environmental reputation but he was an entrepreneur in chemicals and uh the entrepreneur in chemicals and uh the chemical industry he's from Utah and he chemical industry he's from Utah and he wrote a book his Beginnings were very wrote a book his Beginnings were very modest so this is an autobiographical modest so this is an autobiographical tale of his life he worked in the Nixon tale of his life he worked in the Nixon Administration he faced bankruptcy a Administration he faced bankruptcy a couple of times and then he made a couple of times and then he made a fortune and endowed the Huntsman fortune and endowed the Huntsman Institute at the University of Utah Institute at the University of Utah which is dedicated to researching cancer which is dedicated to researching cancer some reading his book cuz I care about some reading his book cuz I care about cancer right and a couple of my friends cancer right and a couple of my friends who live in Utah recommended it to me who live in Utah recommended it to me and right in the beginning he talks and right in the beginning he talks about when he was about when he was born he wasn't breathing when the doctor born he wasn't breathing when the doctor and he was born on like the edge of the and he was born on like the edge of the Native American reservation there was a Native American reservation there was a doctor and there was a midwife and this doctor and there was a midwife and this was like a this is almost 100 years ago was like a this is almost 100 years ago now so you got to imagine the medical now so you got to imagine the medical equipment that they had it was none he equipment that they had it was none he wasn't breathing and so you know you wasn't breathing and so you know you slap the baby on the butt or something slap the baby on the butt or something see if you can like bring the baby to see if you can like bring the baby to didn't work the doctor gave up on the didn't work the doctor gave up on the baby because the doctor had to attend to baby because the doctor had to attend to huntsman's mother and try and save her huntsman's mother and try and save her life this was a difficult birth but the life this was a difficult birth but the Midwife is there and so the Midwife took Midwife is there and so the Midwife took John Huntsman senior and brought him to John Huntsman senior and brought him to the kitchen they had just had Plumbing the kitchen they had just had Plumbing installed right and how did she like installed right and how did she like bring this baby to life contrast therapy bring this baby to life contrast therapy she alternated him between hot water and she alternated him between hot water and cold water until he came to life and cold water until he came to life and began to breathe wow it's almost like began to breathe wow it's almost like CPR right I mean you're not forcing air CPR right I mean you're not forcing air into the lungs but and I don't really
into the lungs but and I don't really understand the mechanisms but the way understand the mechanisms but the way that Huntsman explained you know the that Huntsman explained you know the story of his birth as it was told to him story of his birth as it was told to him was it was the thermal shock of going was it was the thermal shock of going back and forth between the hot and the back and forth between the hot and the cold that brought him as a infant to cold that brought him as a infant to life Wow Huntsman later on he's life Wow Huntsman later on he's diagnosed with prostate cancer and he diagnosed with prostate cancer and he tells a usual story of you know so glad tells a usual story of you know so glad he you know got it caught early and he you know got it caught early and early detection leads to better survival early detection leads to better survival he had his prostate removed he talked he had his prostate removed he talked about some of the side effects about some of the side effects incontinence erectile disfunction and of incontinence erectile disfunction and of course he gave a billion dollars to the course he gave a billion dollars to the Huntsman Institute to research Huntsman Institute to research cancer what he forgot was the health cancer what he forgot was the health that this midwife's wisdom had when he that this midwife's wisdom had when he was born and and and I wish I could go was born and and and I wish I could go back in time I didn't know you know I back in time I didn't know you know I I've never met John hman I don't know I've never met John hman I don't know who he is he's passed on now but I wish who he is he's passed on now but I wish I could say to men who are facing that I could say to men who are facing that try the cold water first you don't have try the cold water first you don't have anything to lose it you know brought anything to lose it you know brought Huntsman to live when he was born I wish Huntsman to live when he was born I wish that he had tried it when he was older that he had tried it when he was older and he had this cancer diagnosis maybe and he had this cancer diagnosis maybe it would have been the right thing for it would have been the right thing for him then too interesting yeah I mean him then too interesting yeah I mean it's a story right and nothing matters it's a story right and nothing matters more than what has happened to you you more than what has happened to you you so Gary Brea went viral a couple months so Gary Brea went viral a couple months ago he was talking about how people who ago he was talking about how people who do ice bass underwater and they put the do ice bass underwater and they put the straw up through the ice so that they straw up through the ice so that they can be in the ice water for extended can be in the ice water for extended periods of time and Gary was sort of periods of time and Gary was sort of saying that the brain is not really saying that the brain is not really protected by fat it's just really the protected by fat it's just really the skull so he was sort of saying that cold skull so he was sort of saying that cold water immersion could be dangerous for water immersion could be dangerous for your brain if you're underwater for too your brain if you're underwater for too long what are your thoughts I don't long what are your thoughts I don't snorkel in the ice bath although I did snorkel in the ice bath although I did try it once um and I had an extreme try it once um and I had an extreme emotional flashback uh it was only 50° emotional flashback uh it was only 50° and I can stay in 50° water for what and I can stay in 50° water for what feels like indefinitely so a friend of feels like indefinitely so a friend of mine said well you should try a snorkel mine said well you should try a snorkel so he gave me one and I went underwater
so he gave me one and I went underwater and I'm breathing through the snorkel and I'm breathing through the snorkel like I used to do as a kid but um I had like I used to do as a kid but um I had this memory of being at Children's Beach this memory of being at Children's Beach and my mother teaching me how to swim and my mother teaching me how to swim and her teaching me how to back float and her teaching me how to back float and then Dead Man's float with my face and then Dead Man's float with my face down and I don't know it just brought up down and I don't know it just brought up so many like childlike emotions I so many like childlike emotions I couldn't stay in there the ice bath is couldn't stay in there the ice bath is really good for your brain but when you really good for your brain but when you do it in short periods that is Don't Go do it in short periods that is Don't Go Brain Freeze yourself there are some Brain Freeze yourself there are some good studies on the metabolism of the good studies on the metabolism of the brain when you improve your insulin brain when you improve your insulin sensitivity Chris Palmer wrote a whole sensitivity Chris Palmer wrote a whole book on the brain metabolism called book on the brain metabolism called brain energy and mental health when your brain energy and mental health when your brain's getting the energy that it needs brain's getting the energy that it needs it can lift your mood it can give you it can lift your mood it can give you the energy you need for cognitive the energy you need for cognitive reframing or to make your therapy useful reframing or to make your therapy useful it can resolve depression and other it can resolve depression and other mental disorders so Chris Palmer is mental disorders so Chris Palmer is really the expert on metabolism and really the expert on metabolism and mental health but there's some other mental health but there's some other good stuff on how improving your good stuff on how improving your metabolism can reverse cognitive decline metabolism can reverse cognitive decline another thing that Gary Brea says is another thing that Gary Brea says is that Alzheimer's is type three diabetes that Alzheimer's is type three diabetes and he didn't make that up Alzheimer's and he didn't make that up Alzheimer's dementia originates in metabolic dementia originates in metabolic disorder and then I got a message from a disorder and then I got a message from a guy who's on Instagram he's an opera guy who's on Instagram he's an opera singer and he says he uses his ice bath singer and he says he uses his ice bath to improve his practice he will go to improve his practice he will go through his practice look Opera is all through his practice look Opera is all in a foreign language he needs to know in a foreign language he needs to know what the words mean not just how to sing what the words mean not just how to sing them so he's got to learn the music he's them so he's got to learn the music he's got to learn the lyrics he's got to got to learn the lyrics he's got to learn the blocking and he's got these learn the blocking and he's got these intensive practice sessions and then he intensive practice sessions and then he hops in the ice path he says it improves hops in the ice path he says it improves his memory so I had to look that one up his memory so I had to look that one up and sure enough there's some good and sure enough there's some good science behind how you can get the science behind how you can get the cognitive boost by doing an ice path but cognitive boost by doing an ice path but he doesn't go all the way to brain he doesn't go all the way to brain freeze and he doesn't snorkel while he's freeze and he doesn't snorkel while he's in the ice path so I don't know Gary in the ice path so I don't know Gary I've never met Gary I haven't seen the I've never met Gary I haven't seen the video that you're talking about I know video that you're talking about I know that when you go up to your neck and
that when you go up to your neck and you improve your metabolism increase you improve your metabolism increase your insulin sensitivity you also your insulin sensitivity you also activate your brown fat and brown fat is activate your brown fat and brown fat is more than just for non- shivering more than just for non- shivering thermogenesis Brown fat is also an thermogenesis Brown fat is also an essential secretory organ Brown fat will essential secretory organ Brown fat will convert T4 to T3 T3 is the more active convert T4 to T3 T3 is the more active form of thyroid hormone Brown fat is in form of thyroid hormone Brown fat is in constant communication with your thyroid constant communication with your thyroid to regulate your metabolism and brown to regulate your metabolism and brown fat will produce something called brain fat will produce something called brain derived neuroprotective Factor it will derived neuroprotective Factor it will produce fgf fibro fibro blast growth produce fgf fibro fibro blast growth factor 21 these are neuroprotective factor 21 these are neuroprotective factors that will help keep your brain factors that will help keep your brain from experiencing damage and bring your from experiencing damage and bring your brain back if it has been damaged so a brain back if it has been damaged so a shortterm ice bath remember I only do 2 shortterm ice bath remember I only do 2 to 4 minutes is a really good thing to to 4 minutes is a really good thing to do for your brain I don't know anything do for your brain I don't know anything about the snorkeling with the straw or about the snorkeling with the straw or something like that yeah I agree I mean something like that yeah I agree I mean I I can't see how it how it could be I I can't see how it how it could be good good but there's probably a lot of things but there's probably a lot of things that you could do in an ice B that you could do in an ice B that aren't any good um and but I'm not that aren't any good um and but I'm not fooling around with those I don't know fooling around with those I don't know what they are and I haven't tested them what they are and I haven't tested them yeah sometimes people will overdo it one yeah sometimes people will overdo it one of the risks that people talk about is of the risks that people talk about is hypothermia Rick Rubin went on Joe Rogan hypothermia Rick Rubin went on Joe Rogan and he said he did 30 minutes in and he said he did 30 minutes in freezing cold water and Joe's like freezing cold water and Joe's like weren't you afraid and Rick rubin's no weren't you afraid and Rick rubin's no because he kind of built up to it Joe because he kind of built up to it Joe goes but why would you do that Rick says goes but why would you do that Rick says well it was covid it was something to do well it was covid it was something to do it's not dangerous the world record for it's not dangerous the world record for being immersed up to your neck in ice being immersed up to your neck in ice cubes is like an hour and a half or cubes is like an hour and a half or something it takes a long time for something it takes a long time for hypothermia to set in and I'm not hypothermia to set in and I'm not suggesting anybody go for a new world suggesting anybody go for a new world record I'm saying 30 minutes is probably record I'm saying 30 minutes is probably overdoing it but it's not dangerous you
overdoing it but it's not dangerous you can rewarm get yourself a blanket get can rewarm get yourself a blanket get yourself a Sona if you live in Phoenix yourself a Sona if you live in Phoenix like I do park your car in the sun it'll like I do park your car in the sun it'll be up to 180 degrees in the parking lot be up to 180 degrees in the parking lot before you know it just sit in the before you know it just sit in the warmth if you happen to overdo it when warmth if you happen to overdo it when you come back when your core body you come back when your core body temperature has come back and the temperature has come back and the circulation is restored to your limbs circulation is restored to your limbs you're going to sleep great so uh I you're going to sleep great so uh I guess pretty much last last question so guess pretty much last last question so this one's for the haters out there this one's for the haters out there Steelman the argument for who shouldn't Steelman the argument for who shouldn't ice ice bath the number one most important bath the number one most important contraindication to the ice bath is not contraindication to the ice bath is not wanting to do an ice bath the people who wanting to do an ice bath the people who should not ice bath are the people who should not ice bath are the people who don't want to do it so let's get that don't want to do it so let's get that out of the way there's no coercion no out of the way there's no coercion no bullying I don't care if Joo wilnick bullying I don't care if Joo wilnick calls you up and says that you're a calls you up and says that you're a because you you know won't get in because you you know won't get in or something like that tell Joo that you or something like that tell Joo that you don't feel like it and you know that's don't feel like it and you know that's not Rogan's approach and you're probably not Rogan's approach and you're probably not going to get that phone call from not going to get that phone call from Joo but I'm not here to shame anybody or Joo but I'm not here to shame anybody or bully anybody or coer anybody into the bully anybody or coer anybody into the ice path David goggin ice path David goggin he might be the toughest man alive you he might be the toughest man alive you know he's got all the willpower in the know he's got all the willpower in the world he also suffers from renod world he also suffers from renod syndrome and he just posted this on syndrome and he just posted this on Instagram where in rods it's an Instagram where in rods it's an interaction between the psychological interaction between the psychological and the physiological it's an and the physiological it's an overreaction to the cold and it's Vaso overreaction to the cold and it's Vaso constriction in the extreme so you get constriction in the extreme so you get no circulation in your fingers and he no circulation in your fingers and he posted a photo of his fingers and they posted a photo of his fingers and they were chalk white because there was no were chalk white because there was no blood flow if you don't want to get in blood flow if you don't want to get in the ice bath then don't and don't let the ice bath then don't and don't let anybody talk you into it now sometimes anybody talk you into it now sometimes it helps to have a guide or a coach or a it helps to have a guide or a coach or a little encouragement you know Joe says little encouragement you know Joe says he's going to kill his inner and he's going to kill his inner and he's going to get in when goggin was on he's going to get in when goggin was on the huberman podcast huberman said when the huberman podcast huberman said when you do the things that you don't like you do the things that you don't like that are really hard it grows a part of
that are really hard it grows a part of your brain called the enterior mid your brain called the enterior mid singulate cortex and that part of the singulate cortex and that part of the brain huberman says is the seat of the brain huberman says is the seat of the will to live so you can build up your will to live so you can build up your willpower I'm not saying I mean you willpower I'm not saying I mean you might hate ice baths but do them anyway might hate ice baths but do them anyway and good for you just don't let anybody and good for you just don't let anybody talk you into it because it kind of talk you into it because it kind of takes away from that feeling of takes away from that feeling of accomplishment that feeling that I did accomplishment that feeling that I did something hard today that that will something hard today that that will build up your willpower because you've build up your willpower because you've accomplished something that's number one accomplished something that's number one number two is hypertension or high blood number two is hypertension or high blood pressure here I've read and heard heard pressure here I've read and heard heard of a couple or three reports of people of a couple or three reports of people who have been hypertensive and had a who have been hypertensive and had a really bad reaction to the ice now this really bad reaction to the ice now this is a medical is a medical contraindication when you put your whole contraindication when you put your whole body into cold water vasal constriction body into cold water vasal constriction in your limbs will force the blood into in your limbs will force the blood into your core and up into your head because your core and up into your head because your head isn't cold this increases your your head isn't cold this increases your blood pressure you've decreased the blood pressure you've decreased the volume that your blood has to occupy volume that your blood has to occupy inside your body and the pressure goes inside your body and the pressure goes up if you're already hyper intensive up if you're already hyper intensive then your high blood pressure could go then your high blood pressure could go up too high to the point where you have up too high to the point where you have an acute episode don't do it um oh was an acute episode don't do it um oh was that well to the if you already are that well to the if you already are hypertensive so you have high blood hypertensive so you have high blood pressure before you do the ice bath The pressure before you do the ice bath The increased blood pressure that you increased blood pressure that you experience while you're in the ice bath experience while you're in the ice bath could put you into an acute hypertensive could put you into an acute hypertensive attack so you got to watch your blood attack so you got to watch your blood pressure if you know that it's already pressure if you know that it's already high start at a temperature that isn't high start at a temperature that isn't so cold go more Gra grual there are so cold go more Gra grual there are other contraindications one of the best other contraindications one of the best sources for this is a book written by a sources for this is a book written by a French gastro enologist hardly a French gastro enologist hardly a bestseller you know I found it on Amazon bestseller you know I found it on Amazon I think it's called Cold Water swimming I think it's called Cold Water swimming so he's a physician and he' been so he's a physician and he' been swimming in the Mediterranean for 20 swimming in the Mediterranean for 20 years and he talked about over the 20 years and he talked about over the 20 years what are some of the medical years what are some of the medical reactions that he's seen the only super
reactions that he's seen the only super serious one is this hypertension this uh serious one is this hypertension this uh excess blood pressure this high blood excess blood pressure this high blood pressure pressure reaction but there are some other ones reaction but there are some other ones there's a lot on Wikipedia about heart there's a lot on Wikipedia about heart attacks and most of it comes from the attacks and most of it comes from the research out of University of Portsmouth research out of University of Portsmouth Mike Tipton he's got what's called an Mike Tipton he's got what's called an extreme environments lab he's got a huge extreme environments lab he's got a huge cold tank and he can study cold exposure cold tank and he can study cold exposure he really cares about drowning and so he really cares about drowning and so he's published some papers which I've he's published some papers which I've paraphrase because most of his stuff is paraphrase because most of his stuff is behind a pay wall about some behind a pay wall about some precautionary protocols if you're precautionary protocols if you're worried about heart arhythmia heart worried about heart arhythmia heart attack breathe go in feet first instead attack breathe go in feet first instead of face first don't immerse your face of face first don't immerse your face this is going to give you some dive this is going to give you some dive reflex and some gasp reflex at the same reflex and some gasp reflex at the same time go in feet first and allow your time go in feet first and allow your body allow the gasp reflex to subside body allow the gasp reflex to subside and your body to go into dive reflex and and your body to go into dive reflex and this will bring your heart rate down the this will bring your heart rate down the dive reflex slows you down it dive reflex slows you down it strengthens your parasympathetic nervous strengthens your parasympathetic nervous system so this is the rest and digest system so this is the rest and digest division of the central nervous system division of the central nervous system whereas the sympathetic that's the gas whereas the sympathetic that's the gas reflex that's the fight or flight so reflex that's the fight or flight so Tipton's got some good advice on how to Tipton's got some good advice on how to keep yourself safe take care of yourself keep yourself safe take care of yourself when you're going into the cold water when you're going into the cold water the rest of the stuff that you read on the rest of the stuff that you read on Wikipedia about the dangers are grossly Wikipedia about the dangers are grossly exaggerated cool I think that's great exaggerated cool I think that's great Tom Seager we're uh where can people Tom Seager we're uh where can people find you I'm at Morosco forge.com find you I'm at Morosco forge.com everything in the book is already everything in the book is already published for free on our website you published for free on our website you know I'm a professor and so I'm like know I'm a professor and so I'm like knowledge should be free I already get knowledge should be free I already get paid a salary you know you can read all paid a salary you know you can read all the articles but people really wanted the articles but people really wanted the book because they wanted it like in the book because they wanted it like in one place without the repetition in a one place without the repetition in a format that they could write in so you format that they could write in so you can go to Morosco forge.com we have a
can go to Morosco forge.com we have a few copies of the book left like 50 of few copies of the book left like 50 of them left you can find it in the store them left you can find it in the store and you can buy it at pretty much our and you can buy it at pretty much our cost which is 30 bucks shipping is free cost which is 30 bucks shipping is free you can find me on substack where I you can find me on substack where I write on a lot of different topics write on a lot of different topics besides cold Seager TP on Twitter on besides cold Seager TP on Twitter on Instagram I'm one of those guys that uh Instagram I'm one of those guys that uh doesn't hide very doesn't hide very well it's great thank you so much thank well it's great thank you so much thank you you Mike this is the cold plunge podcast Mike this is the cold plunge podcast with me Mike Gorman be sure to check out with me Mike Gorman be sure to check out the video version of this podcast on our the video version of this podcast on our YouTube channel and check the show notes YouTube channel and check the show notes for any references studies or links to for any references studies or links to anything I spoke about on our website at anything I spoke about on our website at plunge reviews.com SLP podcasts if you plunge reviews.com SLP podcasts if you have a question you want answered or have a question you want answered or comment about the show feel free to comment about the show feel free to reach out in our official Facebook group reach out in our official Facebook group which is called cold plunge community which is called cold plunge community