Mastering the Mind-Body Connection: Insights from Wim Hof's Approach to Cold Exposure

In a world where wellness protocols are often oversimplified, the nuanced conversation between London Real and leading experts offers a refreshing depth. This discussion explores cold exposure through the lens of both lived experience and emerging science — the kind of synthesis that transforms curiosity into informed practice.

With 4,684 words of transcript spanning 08:54, this conversation covers significant ground. From the underlying physiology of thermal stress to the practical rituals that make these protocols sustainable, the insights here are both accessible and actionable.

Here is what stands out — and what it means for your own wellness journey.

The Physiology of Cold Exposure

what do you think of wim HOF he's been what do you think of wim HOF he's been on the show a few years ago and he's on the show a few years ago and he's on the show a few years ago and he's known for his his cold water therapy known for his his cold water therapy known for his his cold water therapy which is great stuff but also his which is great stuff but also his which is great stuff but also his breathing techniques yes and that is breathing techniques yes and that is breathing techniques yes and that is rapid breathing I've done it with him rapid breathing I've done it with him rapid breathing I've done it with him and it's just I'm probably messing up and it's just I'm probably messing up and it's just I'm probably messing up all my hemoglobin right now right but all my hemoglobin right now right but all my hemoglobin right now right but what do you think of that I think it's what do you think of that I think it's what do you think of that I think it's very interesting as a stressor it's very interesting as a stressor it's very interesting as a stressor it's primarily as a stressor and that is not primarily as a stressor and that is not primarily as a stressor and that is not going to it also hyper oxygenate your going to it also hyper oxygenate your going to it also hyper oxygenate your blood as well blood as well blood as well it's but that's what we're going to talk it's but that's what we're going to talk it's but that's what we're going to talk about okay okay and it's best if I if we about okay okay and it's best if I if we about okay okay and it's best if I if we look at the oxygen and blood oxygen in look at the oxygen and blood oxygen in look at the oxygen and blood oxygen in the blood is carried two ways 98% of the blood is carried two ways 98% of the blood is carried two ways 98% of your oxygen is carried by an by your oxygen is carried by an by your oxygen is carried by an by hemoglobin now at normal breathing if we hemoglobin now at normal breathing if we hemoglobin now at normal breathing if we were to put a pulse oximeter on our were to put a pulse oximeter on our were to put a pulse oximeter on our blood is already fully saturated pulse blood is already fully saturated pulse blood is already fully saturated pulse oximeter what is that there's a little oximeter what is that there's a little oximeter what is that there's a little device that you place in your nail and device that you place in your nail and device that you place in your nail and it picks up the hemoglobin if it's it picks up the hemoglobin if it's it picks up the hemoglobin if it's saturated by oxygen so basically it can saturated by oxygen so basically it can saturated by oxygen so basically it can see through your Zack tree there's a see through your Zack tree there's a see through your Zack tree there's a little red light in and infrared light I little red light in and infrared light I little red light in and infrared light I have one in my bag and of course I have one in my bag and of course I have one in my bag and of course I forgot that prop but I whenever okay and forgot that prop but I whenever okay and forgot that prop but I whenever okay and so we know that breathing at rest that so we know that breathing at rest that so we know that breathing at rest that your blood is already almost fully your blood is already almost fully your blood is already almost fully saturated that carries 98% of your saturated that carries 98% of your saturated that carries 98% of your oxygen 2% of your oxygen is dissolved in oxygen 2% of your oxygen is dissolved in oxygen 2% of your oxygen is dissolved in the blood now if you hyperventilate you the blood now if you hyperventilate you the blood now if you hyperventilate you can increase the amount of oxygen can increase the amount of oxygen can increase the amount of oxygen dissolved in the blood but you cannot dissolved in the blood but you cannot dissolved in the blood but you cannot increase the saturation of your increase the saturation of your increase the saturation of your hemoglobin more oxygen the hemoglobin more oxygen the hemoglobin more oxygen the hyperventilation therefore it's not hyperventilation therefore it's not hyperventilation therefore it's not increasing oxygen uptake in the blood increasing oxygen uptake in the blood increasing oxygen uptake in the blood it's increasing a little that's it's increasing a little that's it's increasing a little that's dissolved but here's what the dissolved but here's what the dissolved but here's what the hyperventilation is also doing it's hyperventilation is also doing it's hyperventilation is also doing it's getting rid of too much carbon dioxide getting rid of too much carbon dioxide getting rid of too much carbon dioxide 30 seconds of hair breathing will reduce 30 seconds of hair breathing will reduce 30 seconds of hair breathing will reduce co2 in the blood by half every one co2 in the blood by half every one co2 in the blood by half every one millimeter drop of co2 reduces blood millimeter drop of co2 reduces blood millimeter drop of co2 reduces blood flow to the brain by two percent now if flow to the brain by two percent now if flow to the brain by two percent now if you think of that you think of that you think of that if we drop our co2 from normal a 40 if we drop our co2 from normal a 40 if we drop our co2 from normal a 40 millimeter of mercury pressure to 20 and millimeter of mercury pressure to 20 and millimeter of mercury pressure to 20 and every one millimeter drop is reducing every one millimeter drop is reducing every one millimeter drop is reducing blood flow to the brain by two percent blood flow to the brain by two percent blood flow to the brain by two percent 30 seconds of higher breathing is 30 seconds of higher breathing is 30 seconds of higher breathing is reducing blood flow to the brain by up reducing blood flow to the brain by up reducing blood flow to the brain by up to 40 percent so if you breathe hard for to 40 percent so if you breathe hard for to 40 percent so if you breathe hard for 30 seconds it's normal that you feel 30 seconds it's normal that you feel 30 seconds it's normal that you feel light-headed that's not because of hyper light-headed that's not because of hyper light-headed that's not because of hyper oxygenation that's because of a oxygenation that's because of a oxygenation that's because of a deficiency of oxygen because the carotid deficiency of oxygen because the carotid deficiency of oxygen because the carotid arteries are constricting and the bond arteries are constricting and the bond arteries are constricting and the bond between oxygen and between oxygen and between oxygen and McGrew baños Trenton's so one one hand McGrew baños Trenton's so one one hand McGrew baños Trenton's so one one hand the vim half technique it is increasing the vim half technique it is increasing the vim half technique it is increasing the amount of oxygen dissolved in the the amount of oxygen dissolved in the the amount of oxygen dissolved in the blood and the other hand it's causing blood and the other hand it's causing blood and the other hand it's causing two greater loss of carbon dioxide two greater loss of carbon dioxide two greater loss of carbon dioxide this is causing it's a little bit this is causing it's a little bit this is causing it's a little bit technical and left shift of what's technical and left shift of what's technical and left shift of what's called the oxyhemoglobin dissociation called the oxyhemoglobin dissociation called the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve but basically the harder you breed curve but basically the harder you breed curve but basically the harder you breed the more co2 you get rid of and the more the more co2 you get rid of and the more the more co2 you get rid of and the more the red blood cells are holding on to the red blood cells are holding on to the red blood cells are holding on to oxygen so here on one hand we have oxygen so here on one hand we have oxygen so here on one hand we have increased oxygen dissolved in the blood increased oxygen dissolved in the blood increased oxygen dissolved in the blood but on the other hand hemoglobin is not but on the other hand hemoglobin is not but on the other hand hemoglobin is not releasing oxygen to the tissues but releasing oxygen to the tissues but releasing oxygen to the tissues but hemoglobin carries 98% of your oxygen so hemoglobin carries 98% of your oxygen so hemoglobin carries 98% of your oxygen so really I think we have to look at and if really I think we have to look at and if really I think we have to look at and if you look at Cox's paper on the film half you look at Cox's paper on the film half you look at Cox's paper on the film half meted you will see that the spo2 across meted you will see that the spo2 across meted you will see that the spo2 across the top doesn't increase from the top doesn't increase from the top doesn't increase from hyperventilation hyperventilation hyperventilation and you do see that the carbon dioxide and you do see that the carbon dioxide and you do see that the carbon dioxide lab is dramatically fall and blood pH lab is dramatically fall and blood pH lab is dramatically fall and blood pH stirs dramatically increased so the vim stirs dramatically increased so the vim stirs dramatically increased so the vim half meted is a short-term stressor and half meted is a short-term stressor and half meted is a short-term stressor and I do think it has its benefits because I do think it has its benefits because I do think it has its benefits because it's increasing epinephrine and it's it's increasing epinephrine and it's it's increasing epinephrine and it's increasing adrenaline and it's causing increasing adrenaline and it's causing increasing adrenaline and it's causing the body to make adaptations to change the body to make adaptations to change the body to make adaptations to change immune functioning that the immune immune functioning that the immune immune functioning that the immune system can be targeted true hype true system can be targeted true hype true system can be targeted true hype true short term hyperventilation and this short term hyperventilation and this short term hyperventilation and this could play a really good role in could play a really good role in could play a really good role in conditions of autoimmune disease because conditions of autoimmune disease because conditions of autoimmune disease because which is the success he's had right yes which is the success he's had right yes which is the success he's had right yes Macon studies at the university is in Macon studies at the university is in Macon studies at the university is in Holland about correct so there's Holland about correct so there's Holland about correct so there's absolutely benefits to it I am going to absolutely benefits to it I am going to absolutely benefits to it I am going to say it's not going to suit everybody if say it's not going to suit everybody if say it's not going to suit everybody if you hyperventilate for 2-3 minutes you you hyperventilate for 2-3 minutes you you hyperventilate for 2-3 minutes you can have a natural cessation and natural can have a natural cessation and natural can have a natural cessation and natural acne as a result of ich that your blood acne as a result of ich that your blood acne as a result of ich that your blood oxygen saturations can drop so low and oxygen saturations can drop so low and oxygen saturations can drop so low and you have to be careful and it's not just you have to be careful and it's not just you have to be careful and it's not just about because like I'm playing with the about because like I'm playing with the about because like I'm playing with the brat all the time three months ago we brat all the time three months ago we brat all the time three months ago we had a guy doing the hyperventilation we had a guy doing the hyperventilation we had a guy doing the hyperventilation we had him then he he was hyperventilating had him then he he was hyperventilating had him then he he was hyperventilating didn't respond to three minutes no didn't respond to three minutes no didn't respond to three minutes no response slapping his face no response response slapping his face no response response slapping his face no response so there we really need to you know and so there we really need to you know and so there we really need to you know and I don't have to brought the blood is I don't have to brought the blood is I don't have to brought the blood is dropping in the brain there's absolutely dropping in the brain there's absolutely dropping in the brain there's absolutely okay so the hyperventilation say for the okay so the hyperventilation say for the okay so the hyperventilation say for the short period of time it has got rid of short period of time it has got rid of short period of time it has got rid of so much carbon dioxide carbon dioxide is so much carbon dioxide carbon dioxide is so much carbon dioxide carbon dioxide is to drive to braid to drive to braid to drive to braid so the brain will only send a message to so the brain will only send a message to so the brain will only send a message to breed when carbon dioxide climbs back up breed when carbon dioxide climbs back up breed when carbon dioxide climbs back up to that threshold but if you've got rid to that threshold but if you've got rid to that threshold but if you've got rid of so much co2 that your co2 is down of so much co2 that your co2 is down of so much co2 that your co2 is down here the brain isn't going to send any here the brain isn't going to send any here the brain isn't going to send any signal to breed so as a result you will signal to breed so as a result you will signal to breed so as a result you will naturally stop breathing for such a long naturally stop breathing for such a long naturally stop breathing for such a long period of time and during that time your period of time and during that time your period of time and during that time your blood oxygen saturation will drop blood oxygen saturation will drop blood oxygen saturation will drop because your cells are taking oxygen because your cells are taking oxygen because your cells are taking oxygen from the blood but you've stopped from the blood but you've stopped from the blood but you've stopped breathing so you're not replenishing breathing so you're not replenishing breathing so you're not replenishing oxygen in the blood did the blood oxygen oxygen in the blood did the blood oxygen oxygen in the blood did the blood oxygen saturation can drop to the spo2 can drop saturation can drop to the spo2 can drop saturation can drop to the spo2 can drop down to 40 or 50 percent this doesn't down to 40 or 50 percent this doesn't down to 40 or 50 percent this doesn't happen on earth even if you were at happen on earth even if you were at happen on earth even if you were at Mount Everest you wouldn't drop your Mount Everest you wouldn't drop your Mount Everest you wouldn't drop your blood oxygen saturation down that low so blood oxygen saturation down that low so blood oxygen saturation down that low so I would be careful potentially dangerous I would be careful potentially dangerous I would be careful potentially dangerous and you've seen William come all come and you've seen William come all come and you've seen William come all come out and say don't do the water out and say don't do the water out and say don't do the water techniques with the breathing tech to techniques with the breathing tech to techniques with the breathing tech to mop so if anyone's listening at make mop so if anyone's listening at make mop so if anyone's listening at make sure you don't yes because you know one sure you don't yes because you know one sure you don't yes because you know one of uh guy named Josh Waitzkin who was of uh guy named Josh Waitzkin who was of uh guy named Josh Waitzkin who was one of the guys that was on - Tim one of the guys that was on - Tim one of the guys that was on - Tim Ferriss podcast early on and Josh was he Ferriss podcast early on and Josh was he Ferriss podcast early on and Josh was he was in that movie searching for bobby was in that movie searching for bobby was in that movie searching for bobby fisher' one of the he was like a chest fisher' one of the he was like a chest fisher' one of the he was like a chest press yes and he was swimming in a New press yes and he was swimming in a New press yes and he was swimming in a New York City Athletic Club he's a very York City Athletic Club he's a very York City Athletic Club he's a very accomplished swimmer but he was doing accomplished swimmer but he was doing accomplished swimmer but he was doing his breeding techniques he basically his breeding techniques he basically his breeding techniques he basically passed out on the bottom of the piste passed out on the bottom of the piste passed out on the bottom of the piste and he was there for minutes and it was and he was there for minutes and it was and he was there for minutes and it was amazing that he didn't actually take a amazing that he didn't actually take a amazing that he didn't actually take a water in he let kept his mouth closed water in he let kept his mouth closed water in he let kept his mouth closed for some reason maybe he was lately for some reason maybe he was lately for some reason maybe he was lately stopped breathing yeah so because again stopped breathing yeah so because again stopped breathing yeah so because again you know if you hyperventilate before you know if you hyperventilate before you know if you hyperventilate before getting into a pool you're getting rid getting into a pool you're getting rid getting into a pool you're getting rid of your alarm to breathe so you're of your alarm to breathe so you're of your alarm to breathe so you're underwater you feel absolutely no underwater you feel absolutely no underwater you feel absolutely no sensation to braid because your co2 sensation to braid because your co2 sensation to braid because your co2 levels have been depleted right it's not levels have been depleted right it's not levels have been depleted right it's not about the co2 at this point your oxygen about the co2 at this point your oxygen about the co2 at this point your oxygen levels are also dropping and if you have levels are also dropping and if you have levels are also dropping and if you have underwater black out there's no warning underwater black out there's no warning underwater black out there's no warning you're conscious you're out and if you're conscious you're out and if you're conscious you're out and if you're out underwater that's that's a you're out underwater that's that's a you're out underwater that's that's a big problem big problem big problem people have died you know so I would say people have died you know so I would say people have died you know so I would say the hyperventilation doing it on land the hyperventilation doing it on land the hyperventilation doing it on land very good as a stressor forcing the body very good as a stressor forcing the body very good as a stressor forcing the body to make adaptations gives you a good to make adaptations gives you a good to make adaptations gives you a good idea of the power of the Brett but not idea of the power of the Brett but not idea of the power of the Brett but not underwater now we do Brett holing but we underwater now we do Brett holing but we underwater now we do Brett holing but we do Brett holing that and I think it's do Brett holing that and I think it's do Brett holing that and I think it's really good because it's forcing the really good because it's forcing the really good because it's forcing the body to make adaptations now when we body to make adaptations now when we body to make adaptations now when we normally do a Brett hold we have the normally do a Brett hold we have the normally do a Brett hold we have the individual there wall individual there wall individual there wall you know George Augie and then I'll have you know George Augie and then I'll have you know George Augie and then I'll have them take a breath in through the nose them take a breath in through the nose them take a breath in through the nose breath out through the nose and they breath out through the nose and they breath out through the nose and they pinched her nose and we also are pinched her nose and we also are pinched her nose and we also are monitoring their blood oxygen saturation monitoring their blood oxygen saturation monitoring their blood oxygen saturation and we want to drop them down to about and we want to drop them down to about and we want to drop them down to about 85% which is severe hypoxia but the 85% which is severe hypoxia but the 85% which is severe hypoxia but the difference between the vim half difference between the vim half difference between the vim half technique in the oxygen advantage in it technique in the oxygen advantage in it technique in the oxygen advantage in it so we always get the question vim half so we always get the question vim half so we always get the question vim half technique is a hypoxic hypo Catholic technique is a hypoxic hypo Catholic technique is a hypoxic hypo Catholic approach low Oh too low co2 oxygen approach low Oh too low co2 oxygen approach low Oh too low co2 oxygen advantages low to high co2 now what advantages low to high co2 now what advantages low to high co2 now what happens when you do low to and high co2 happens when you do low to and high co2 happens when you do low to and high co2 well if you deprive the muscle of oxygen well if you deprive the muscle of oxygen well if you deprive the muscle of oxygen short term the hydrogen ion coming from short term the hydrogen ion coming from short term the hydrogen ion coming from the muscle doesn't get oxidized because the muscle doesn't get oxidized because the muscle doesn't get oxidized because there's not sufficient oxygen if it gets there's not sufficient oxygen if it gets there's not sufficient oxygen if it gets oxidized it forms water so instead in a oxidized it forms water so instead in a oxidized it forms water so instead in a deficiency of oxygen that hydrogen ion deficiency of oxygen that hydrogen ion deficiency of oxygen that hydrogen ion associate with pyruvic acid that in turn associate with pyruvic acid that in turn associate with pyruvic acid that in turn forms lactic acid lactic acid then will forms lactic acid lactic acid then will forms lactic acid lactic acid then will dissociate into hydrogen ion and dissociate into hydrogen ion and dissociate into hydrogen ion and lactation carbon dioxide at the same lactation carbon dioxide at the same lactation carbon dioxide at the same time as increasing during the breath old time as increasing during the breath old time as increasing during the breath old and weakened further increased hydrogen and weakened further increased hydrogen and weakened further increased hydrogen ion and bicarbonate so we have an ion and bicarbonate so we have an ion and bicarbonate so we have an hydrogen ion from their low oxygen we hydrogen ion from their low oxygen we hydrogen ion from their low oxygen we have a hydrogen ion from the high co2 so have a hydrogen ion from the high co2 so have a hydrogen ion from the high co2 so we're disturbing the blood acid-base we're disturbing the blood acid-base we're disturbing the blood acid-base balance we're stimulating anaerobic balance we're stimulating anaerobic balance we're stimulating anaerobic glycolysis this then is forcing the body glycolysis this then is forcing the body glycolysis this then is forcing the body to increase the buffering capacity to increase the buffering capacity to increase the buffering capacity probably inside in the muscle probably inside in the muscle probably inside in the muscle compartment so therefore the hydrogen compartment so therefore the hydrogen compartment so therefore the hydrogen ions and co2 that's released from the ions and co2 that's released from the ions and co2 that's released from the muscle is released far more slowly so muscle is released far more slowly so muscle is released far more slowly so there's huge adaptations that you can do there's huge adaptations that you can do there's huge adaptations that you can do with simple Brett Hall techniques if you with simple Brett Hall techniques if you with simple Brett Hall techniques if you want to challenge the body because you want to challenge the body because you want to challenge the body because you can disturb you can disturb home your can disturb you can disturb home your can disturb you can disturb home your status and use you can dislike status and use you can dislike status and use you can dislike incredibly if you were to compare this incredibly if you were to compare this incredibly if you were to compare this to high-intensity interval training to high-intensity interval training to high-intensity interval training which athletes do to stimulate anaerobic which athletes do to stimulate anaerobic which athletes do to stimulate anaerobic glycolysis in terms of the blood oxygen glycolysis in terms of the blood oxygen glycolysis in terms of the blood oxygen level no comparison level no comparison level no comparison [Music] [Music] [Music] you you you [Music]

Building a Sustainable Cold Protocol

This section explores building a sustainable cold protocol, drawing on the insights shared in the conversation.

Beyond the Physical: Mental Resilience Through Cold

This section explores beyond the physical: mental resilience through cold, drawing on the insights shared in the conversation.

Practical Takeaways