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hello and welcome to Kickback science podcast I'm your host Dr Luke this podcast I'm your host Dr Luke this podcast is your place to get the tools podcast is your place to get the tools and knowledge necessary to navigate the and knowledge necessary to navigate the world of Health and Wellness so kick world of Health and Wellness so kick back let's talk science this is good back let's talk science this is good content this stuff has gone great we'll content this stuff has gone great we'll jump into it let's dive in let's do a jump into it let's dive in let's do a little science I'm going nitty-gritty little science I'm going nitty-gritty science right now I've been looking science right now I've been looking forward to this kind of going on a forward to this kind of going on a little bit of a tangent oh yeah that's little bit of a tangent oh yeah that's right I forgot about that right I forgot about that the information we discuss in this the information we discuss in this podcast is not meant to be taken as podcast is not meant to be taken as medical advice it is simply informative medical advice it is simply informative we're not affiliated with any we're not affiliated with any organization or institution just a few organization or institution just a few guys talking science and having guys talking science and having fun hell yeah welcome back guys good fun hell yeah welcome back guys good morning good morning miss you guys oh morning good morning miss you guys oh good good morning you missed me too you miss I did morning you missed me too you miss I did I did miss you I did damn right you did I did miss you I did damn right you did so I just wanted to say uh that workout so I just wanted to say uh that workout you got for me you got for me Reed kicking my butt that one took an Reed kicking my butt that one took an hour to complete that yeah I was sitting hour to complete that yeah I was sitting there you say it's an hour workout I've there you say it's an hour workout I've been there for like an hour and a half been there for like an hour and a half plus okay but that's all right yeah you plus okay but that's all right yeah you know using those rest times that he's know using those rest times that he's got 30 seconds it's you know you say 30 got 30 seconds it's you know you say 30 seconds I might be pushing A little over seconds I might be pushing A little over 30 probably closer to I know it's tough 30 probably closer to I know it's tough I know I'm just like sore I'm sore which I know I'm just like sore I'm sore which is impressive so for the listeners that is impressive so for the listeners that don't know we've got something fun don't know we've got something fun coming to you pretty soon in the near coming to you pretty soon in the near future and it is uh workout templates future and it is uh workout templates they're going to be customized workout they're going to be customized workout templates that you're able to kind of templates that you're able to kind of shape to your goals your activity level shape to your goals your activity level and all that and Reed's got Joe starting and all that and Reed's got Joe starting his and sounds like it's working pretty his and sounds like it's working pretty darn good yeah yeah it is I I think it darn good yeah yeah it is I I think it is we'll see
is we'll see we'll see we got to get some before and we'll see we got to get some before and after pictures we should do that oh after pictures we should do that oh little photo shoot yeah a little photo little photo shoot yeah a little photo shoot yeah Joe stri down to his skinnies shoot yeah Joe stri down to his skinnies snap some pics birthday suit we should snap some pics birthday suit we should have you do one of those like model have you do one of those like model struts and walk down back naked and on struts and walk down back naked and on top of the workout Luke's putting top of the workout Luke's putting together a little diet plan for me yeah together a little diet plan for me yeah so we're going to have um nutritional so we're going to have um nutritional templates too for different goals templates too for different goals whether it be build m whether it be build m lose weight lose body fat and you know lose weight lose body fat and you know how to follow a specific caloric inape how to follow a specific caloric inape protein targets and all that and uh I'm protein targets and all that and uh I'm going to track my progress through all going to track my progress through all this so you can follow along my journey this so you can follow along my journey and uh join in if you want um yeah I and uh join in if you want um yeah I think it's going to be fun you're a think it's going to be fun you're a little lab rat I am I am we got to we little lab rat I am I am we got to we got to show that it works before we send got to show that it works before we send it off to the public yeah you give me it off to the public yeah you give me feeding times you just come over you're feeding times you just come over you're like all right you go put a little like all right you go put a little running wheel in his bedroom oh jeez all running wheel in his bedroom oh jeez all right welcome back everybody to another right welcome back everybody to another episode of Kickback science today we're episode of Kickback science today we're going to be talking about all things going to be talking about all things cold exposure yes so uh Dr Luke let's cold exposure yes so uh Dr Luke let's kind of just get started on what cold kind of just get started on what cold exposure is well cold exposure I think exposure is well cold exposure I think is like the new trend like if you don't is like the new trend like if you don't do it then you're not tough you're not do it then you're not tough you're not cool yeah literally everyone seems to do cool yeah literally everyone seems to do it and it's it's one of those things it and it's it's one of those things where if you don't film yourself doing where if you don't film yourself doing it were you really doing it dude that's it were you really doing it dude that's so true you see every video is he has to so true you see every video is he has to film it's like all right just sit there film it's like all right just sit there like people will just get in the cold like people will just get in the cold water and what's funny is they'll hold water and what's funny is they'll hold as steady as they can and try to like as steady as they can and try to like show you know I'm so adapted and calm show you know I'm so adapted and calm and tough and there's actually something and tough and there's actually something to this when you get into cold water and to this when you get into cold water and you're going to notice you get this like you're going to notice you get this like gasp reflex where takes your breath away gasp reflex where takes your breath away initially it's called isn't it called
initially it's called isn't it called like the divers what is it called um like the divers what is it called um well the mamalian dive reflex I see well the mamalian dive reflex I see getting that so that's actually after getting that so that's actually after you're in the water for a period of time you're in the water for a period of time we'll talk about the physiology of that we'll talk about the physiology of that but there are these reflexes of like but there are these reflexes of like cold shock yeah and so people will get cold shock yeah and so people will get into the water and over time you'll get into the water and over time you'll get adapted to this level of cold and so you adapted to this level of cold and so you won't get that cold shock quite as much won't get that cold shock quite as much and so these these people will like hop and so these these people will like hop into these cold tubs and just be like into these cold tubs and just be like look how calm I am I'm so tough but it's look how calm I am I'm so tough but it's funny because they're actually not funny because they're actually not getting as much benefit when they're getting as much benefit when they're holding steady like that because your holding steady like that because your body temperature actually creates this body temperature actually creates this thermic layer around you and you you can thermic layer around you and you you can actually feel this next time you're in a actually feel this next time you're in a a pool that's colder than really I mean a pool that's colder than really I mean any pool this is going to work for uh any pool this is going to work for uh but when you get in any water that's but when you get in any water that's colder than body temperature and you colder than body temperature and you hold really steady for a while and then hold really steady for a while and then slowly move you'll notice all of a slowly move you'll notice all of a sudden the water feels colder as you sudden the water feels colder as you start to move your limbs and it's start to move your limbs and it's because you get this thermic layer where because you get this thermic layer where the water that's right around your body the water that's right around your body noticed that before yeah the water noticed that before yeah the water that's right around your body is that's right around your body is actually warmer when it's in contact actually warmer when it's in contact with your skin and so next time you see with your skin and so next time you see someone pretending to be all tough cuz someone pretending to be all tough cuz they hold steady you should comment and they hold steady you should comment and be like actually you're not that tough be like actually you're not that tough if you just slowly moved your limbs then if you just slowly moved your limbs then you'd be tough so yeah you feel the if you'd be tough so yeah you feel the if you're in the shower if you feel the you're in the shower if you feel the water bouncing off your skin that's also water bouncing off your skin that's also a different temperature have you ever a different temperature have you ever noticed that the so like like just noticed that the so like like just hitting your skin and then heating up it hitting your skin and then heating up it is I swear to God I'm going to have to is I swear to God I'm going to have to try that out I swear it is maybe I'm try that out I swear it is maybe I'm just like crazy but whatever I don't just like crazy but whatever I don't know I've never like checked like oh I know I've never like checked like oh I wonder what the water temperature is wonder what the water temperature is it's bouncing off my it's bouncing off my skin so but the skin so but the [Laughter] [Laughter] um now I lost my train of thought good um now I lost my train of thought good yeah oh well so like on this like
yeah oh well so like on this like holding steady I just wanted to mention holding steady I just wanted to mention too like if you are trying to get the too like if you are trying to get the greatest benefit out of cold water and greatest benefit out of cold water and make sure that you keep getting this make sure that you keep getting this stress moving just slightly is going to stress moving just slightly is going to be the best way to do that because you be the best way to do that because you don't allow this thermic layer to don't allow this thermic layer to develop around your skin and you don't develop around your skin and you don't want to move super fast and shiver want to move super fast and shiver because shivering actually produces heat because shivering actually produces heat on its own when you when you start on its own when you when you start shivering your body is actually shivering your body is actually Contracting your muscles to generate Contracting your muscles to generate heat that's a method of heating yourself heat that's a method of heating yourself up so you don't want to like do that in up so you don't want to like do that in the cold water sorry for the shaking the cold water sorry for the shaking sound for the people who are not sound for the people who are not watching video of this I am watching video of this I am shivering U you you don't want to do shivering U you you don't want to do that but just moving slightly in the that but just moving slightly in the cold and so we just dove into the cold and so we just dove into the science right away but I mean this it's science right away but I mean this it's funny how much this has blown up it funny how much this has blown up it seems oh yeah see Joe Rogan you got seems oh yeah see Joe Rogan you got Kevin Hart yeah the coldest balls BS I Kevin Hart yeah the coldest balls BS I love that's awesome everybody's doing love that's awesome everybody's doing like I see on my Instagram reals it's like I see on my Instagram reals it's just people sitting in cold tubs or like just people sitting in cold tubs or like my buddy's mom she actually in the metro my buddy's mom she actually in the metro area she' go in the lake in the winter area she' go in the lake in the winter time and just with a group of people and time and just with a group of people and they just go all just standing there in they just go all just standing there in the lake and this isn't like a polar the lake and this isn't like a polar plunge this is them just every morning plunge this is them just every morning they're just going doing this yeah they they're just going doing this yeah they actually had an article about it in the actually had an article about it in the paper it was crazy have you guys have paper it was crazy have you guys have you guys done cold water immersion like you guys done cold water immersion like whether it be like cold tubs or or whether it be like cold tubs or or shower or anything you know when we had shower or anything you know when we had talk talked about cold water a while talk talked about cold water a while ago uh you ago uh you mentioned to try it out and uh I didn't mentioned to try it out and uh I didn't you didn't one of my old take back I did you didn't one of my old take back I did try it but man I hate cold water it's try it but man I hate cold water it's tough yeah well that's that's the reason tough yeah well that's that's the reason that it actually has a lot of benefits that it actually has a lot of benefits is because of how uncomfortable it is is because of how uncomfortable it is see we're kind of we live in this like see we're kind of we live in this like Society where it's easy for us to fall Society where it's easy for us to fall into the path of leas resistance you into the path of leas resistance you know you you don't have to do anything know you you don't have to do anything uncomfortable in your life if you don't uncomfortable in your life if you don't want to you can sit at home and get one
want to you can sit at home and get one of those incline or beds that just of those incline or beds that just reclines up so that you can eat and reclines up so that you can eat and drink from your own bed never leave the drink from your own bed never leave the house you can order door Dash your house you can order door Dash your groceries you can order like groceries groceries you can order like groceries and a stuffed bald eagle to your front and a stuffed bald eagle to your front door you know there's literally no door you know there's literally no limits to what you can get delivered to limits to what you can get delivered to you so you never have to have any you so you never have to have any discomfort and as humans naturally it's discomfort and as humans naturally it's easy for us to follow this path of leas easy for us to follow this path of leas resistance so something that creates resistance so something that creates such a high level of stress it like cold such a high level of stress it like cold water immersion it's hard to get people water immersion it's hard to get people to do that when I've done it I've had to to do that when I've done it I've had to like really slowly turn it down down like really slowly turn it down down down down down and then so you slowly down down down and then so you slowly adapt yeah and then I get to that point adapt yeah and then I get to that point where the breath gets taken away and I'm where the breath gets taken away and I'm like yeah no I'm good you kind of start like yeah no I'm good you kind of start gasping yeah I do it for like a couple gasping yeah I do it for like a couple couple seconds couple seconds good but I'm probably not getting any good but I'm probably not getting any benefits from it well what's interesting benefits from it well what's interesting with the research um is there's such a with the research um is there's such a range of temperatures that are studied I range of temperatures that are studied I mean some of these the the water can be mean some of these the the water can be as low as freezing and then some it it's as low as freezing and then some it it's a lot warmer and so there's not really a lot warmer and so there's not really this like temperature range or this this like temperature range or this specific temperature it's quite a range specific temperature it's quite a range here here yeah because don't you yeah because don't you just you want to start higher really just you want to start higher really because your body needs to adapt to it because your body needs to adapt to it adapt otherwise you're just putting your adapt otherwise you're just putting your body in shock which I know I get that's body in shock which I know I get that's part of part of it it but if you go into too much shock like but if you go into too much shock like couldn't some [ __ ] happen I mean you're couldn't some [ __ ] happen I mean you're you're not going you're not going to have any detrimental effects from to have any detrimental effects from just the initial shock itself it's when just the initial shock itself it's when you stay in that c water for longer you stay in that c water for longer periods of time and we'll dive into that periods of time and we'll dive into that here in a second no pun intended um but here in a second no pun intended um but yeah so like this this temperature range
yeah so like this this temperature range in the research you often see from 40 to in the research you often see from 40 to 60° Fahrenheit which is from 5 to 15° C 60° Fahrenheit which is from 5 to 15° C in that range uh that's what's most in that range uh that's what's most often studied that's a pretty wide range often studied that's a pretty wide range and and 60° Fahrenheit 15 degrees cels I and and 60° Fahrenheit 15 degrees cels I mean that's that's cold and not mean that's that's cold and not comfortable but it's not freezing so you comfortable but it's not freezing so you don't have to get into like like your don't have to get into like like your friend's mom with like that that water friend's mom with like that that water is right at freezing you know uh you is right at freezing you know uh you don't have to and if you do you have to don't have to and if you do you have to change the time you're in these the the change the time you're in these the the cold water there so if you're in a cold water there so if you're in a higher temperature you need to All Right higher temperature you need to All Right video went out here so I had to get the video went out here so I had to get the video going so back to the uh video going so back to the uh temperature here um there's quite a wide temperature here um there's quite a wide range you know and you don't have to get range you know and you don't have to get into freezing cold water if you do get into freezing cold water if you do get into freezing cold water water then you into freezing cold water water then you don't have to stay in there quite as don't have to stay in there quite as long and so if you're in the warmer long and so if you're in the warmer water you got to increase the water you got to increase the temperature and it all comes down to temperature and it all comes down to this like stress induced stimulus and this like stress induced stimulus and we're going to talk about this a lot in we're going to talk about this a lot in this podcast because we're going to talk this podcast because we're going to talk about exercise a lot in other protocols about exercise a lot in other protocols that when you initiate this process that when you initiate this process referred to as referred to as hormesis where you have these acute hormesis where you have these acute stressors in acute meaning these stressors in acute meaning these temporary short-term stressors for your temporary short-term stressors for your body when you have these over time your body when you have these over time your body starts to adapt to these stressors body starts to adapt to these stressors and so it's important to stress your and so it's important to stress your body out more to get these adaptations body out more to get these adaptations and and so this you need to stay in the and and so this you need to stay in the water for a certain amount of time to water for a certain amount of time to make it a make it a stressful experience or like to force stressful experience or like to force your body into this stress response if your body into this stress response if you hop into 60° water and then you keep you hop into 60° water and then you keep doing you know 5 minutes for months at a doing you know 5 minutes for months at a time that water you're going to become time that water you're going to become adapted to which is a good thing you
adapted to which is a good thing you know your body is adapting to this know your body is adapting to this stress and so you actually have to stress and so you actually have to either increase the time increase the or either increase the time increase the or increase decrease the temperature it's increase decrease the temperature it's the same thing with exercise you know the same thing with exercise you know over time you have to increase you let's over time you have to increase you let's say resistance training weight sets or say resistance training weight sets or repetitions volume has to go up somehow repetitions volume has to go up somehow uh if you don't you're going to be fully uh if you don't you're going to be fully adapted to that and you're no longer adapted to that and you're no longer going to get these benefits that that going to get these benefits that that stressor will provide and so progression stressor will provide and so progression in cold water it it it goes down the in cold water it it it goes down the same path as progression and exercise same path as progression and exercise you know you kind of follow these same you know you kind of follow these same Concepts and uh you know before we dive Concepts and uh you know before we dive so much into the protocols and stuff so much into the protocols and stuff let's talk about like why the hell are let's talk about like why the hell are people getting in cold water in the people getting in cold water in the first place like where did this start first place like where did this start yeah yeah where did it start cuz all of yeah yeah where did it start cuz all of a sudden like you were saying Joe Rogan a sudden like you were saying Joe Rogan Kevin Hart like that [ __ ] started Kevin Hart like that [ __ ] started popping up and then it was I mean popping up and then it was I mean honestly it's everywhere oh yeah people honestly it's everywhere oh yeah people are buying those they got the little are buying those they got the little tubs tubs little like packages and Amazon you can little like packages and Amazon you can buy for a cold tub it's they're just buy for a cold tub it's they're just everywhere yeah it that industry is everywhere yeah it that industry is booming yeah like a trainer back in like booming yeah like a trainer back in like 2015 16 that I worked with he used to do 2015 16 that I worked with he used to do take cold showers every morning and we take cold showers every morning and we all thought he was crazy but like now all thought he was crazy but like now it's really like caught on said started it's really like caught on said started selling the tubs I know I was like whoa selling the tubs I know I was like whoa I should have started tub selling right I should have started tub selling right there but yeah like what what's the there but yeah like what what's the craze behind why are people doing it so craze behind why are people doing it so what's interesting about cold water is what's interesting about cold water is they um you know people have been doing they um you know people have been doing this a lot like the Polar Plunge well this a lot like the Polar Plunge well the Polar Plunge was sorry you're the Polar Plunge was sorry you're probably not going there but I did yeah probably not going there but I did yeah yeah the Polar Plunge is more of like yeah the Polar Plunge is more of like one of those like charitable events yeah one of those like charitable events yeah but it is the same thing yeah I mean but it is the same thing yeah I mean doing a Polar Plunge the the benefits doing a Polar Plunge the the benefits you're going to see but where you have you're going to see but where you have seen cold water a lot is with athletes
seen cold water a lot is with athletes so this high-intensity activity where um so this high-intensity activity where um after any sort of game practice a lot of after any sort of game practice a lot of athletes that are doing high volume work athletes that are doing high volume work are hopping in the cold tub afterwards are hopping in the cold tub afterwards that's been happening for quite some that's been happening for quite some time and it's because of this group of time and it's because of this group of studies that have shown that cold water studies that have shown that cold water immersion reduces this delayed onset immersion reduces this delayed onset muscle soreness or what is referred to muscle soreness or what is referred to as Doms anyone who is involved in as Doms anyone who is involved in resistance training is familiar with resistance training is familiar with that soreness Effect one day and then that soreness Effect one day and then two days after your workout Joe's going two days after your workout Joe's going through that right through that right now you should right you could hop in now you should right you could hop in some cold well we'll talk about you some cold well we'll talk about you might not want to later might not want to later yeah the the like so athletes hop in yeah the the like so athletes hop in because you know you think about a a because you know you think about a a sport like let's say hockey for example sport like let's say hockey for example you're going such high intensity for you're going such high intensity for hours at a time and then you've got hours at a time and then you've got practice the next day you've got a game practice the next day you've got a game two days later and you've got to try to two days later and you've got to try to perform at this high level again uh perform at this high level again uh that's going to take a toll on your body that's going to take a toll on your body and if you feel sore you're not going to and if you feel sore you're not going to perform at that Optimum of a level and perform at that Optimum of a level and so there is a group of studies that has so there is a group of studies that has demonstrated that there is some demonstrated that there is some significance here when you get into cold significance here when you get into cold water there is a reduction in delayed water there is a reduction in delayed onset muscle sess and this is actually onset muscle sess and this is actually true in terms of muscle damage itself true in terms of muscle damage itself and so it preserves this damage of the and so it preserves this damage of the muscle and there's a reduction in muscle and there's a reduction in inflammation in a variety of studies but inflammation in a variety of studies but this is actually interesting because this is actually interesting because some papers show that there's no effect some papers show that there's no effect on inflammatory markers and and when we on inflammatory markers and and when we throw around this inflammation word uh throw around this inflammation word uh again you want to you want to ask people again you want to you want to ask people when they say inflammation like what when they say inflammation like what aspect of inflammation are you referring
aspect of inflammation are you referring to because inflammation is beneficial to because inflammation is beneficial when you exercise you get a rise in when you exercise you get a rise in inflammatory markers you you don't want inflammatory markers you you don't want to you know avoid that uh but in terms to you know avoid that uh but in terms of recovery reducing inflammation is of recovery reducing inflammation is going to result in a reduction in going to result in a reduction in feeling of soreness and so it you can feeling of soreness and so it you can can look at these inflammatory cyto can look at these inflammatory cyto kindes which we talked about in another kindes which we talked about in another podcast episode uh where these cyto podcast episode uh where these cyto kindes are these markers that are kindes are these markers that are released to recruit different immune released to recruit different immune cells and to start this process of cells and to start this process of recovery and repair of the muscle those recovery and repair of the muscle those cyto kindes actually trigger these cyto kindes actually trigger these Sensory neurons these nerves that result Sensory neurons these nerves that result in the feeling of pain and discomfort in the feeling of pain and discomfort and such and so if you have a decrease and such and so if you have a decrease in these cyto kindes your muscles aren't in these cyto kindes your muscles aren't going to be quite as sore uh so there going to be quite as sore uh so there are a plenty of papers that show this are a plenty of papers that show this reduction in inflammation now again that reduction in inflammation now again that that area is kind of all over the place that area is kind of all over the place and some showing no change so the reason and some showing no change so the reason we see a reduction in delayed onset we see a reduction in delayed onset muscle soreness actually might not be muscle soreness actually might not be due to this reduction in inflammation due to this reduction in inflammation but either way it's happening people get but either way it's happening people get into cold water after this level of into cold water after this level of exertion and they see that their feeling exertion and they see that their feeling of soreness so perceived soreness how of soreness so perceived soreness how they actually feel is improved so they they actually feel is improved so they don't feel as sore and then they look at don't feel as sore and then they look at muscle damage and um the muscle is not muscle damage and um the muscle is not quite as damaged if they do this now quite as damaged if they do this now this is only true in these uh according this is only true in these uh according to where we're at with the research to where we're at with the research right now there's a a recent right now there's a a recent metaanalysis that came out in 2022 that metaanalysis that came out in 2022 that took 52 different studies this was done took 52 different studies this was done down in Australia Australia Adelaide down in Australia Australia Adelaide actually shout out Ben tikle um and they actually shout out Ben tikle um and they they looked at 52 different papers with they looked at 52 different papers with people who exercised and did cold water people who exercised and did cold water after they exercised for 15 minutes uh after they exercised for 15 minutes uh the temperature ranges were from 40 to the temperature ranges were from 40 to all the way up to 68° fah um and they
all the way up to 68° fah um and they well the temperature or the time wasn't well the temperature or the time wasn't always 15 minutes that ranged to from 10 always 15 minutes that ranged to from 10 to 15 with if you're at a warmer to 15 with if you're at a warmer temperature you're in there for longer temperature you're in there for longer but what they found is that it depended but what they found is that it depended on the type of activity in terms of the on the type of activity in terms of the benefits you get in delayed onset muscle benefits you get in delayed onset muscle soreness that soreness that um there was a Improvement in um there was a Improvement in high-intensity exercise especially and high-intensity exercise especially and so high intensity and then also so high intensity and then also endurance train you say high intensity endurance train you say high intensity are you talking like Sprints are you talking like Sprints longdistance running CrossFit CrossFit longdistance running CrossFit CrossFit lift and heavy weights so that's a good lift and heavy weights so that's a good question so the high-intensity exercise question so the high-intensity exercise included a a variety of things but included a a variety of things but really it was making sure that the really it was making sure that the participants or athletes were going to participants or athletes were going to failure some level of fatigue uh so as failure some level of fatigue uh so as opposed to you know just like a moderate opposed to you know just like a moderate walk jog type thing Sprint or Sprint walk jog type thing Sprint or Sprint till you're l or even resistance till you're l or even resistance training multiple sets of multiple reps training multiple sets of multiple reps to failure that's high intensity until to failure that's high intensity until you can't lift the weight you can't lift the weight basically right and so this delayed basically right and so this delayed onset muscle soreness seems to to apply onset muscle soreness seems to to apply to you know these to you know these high-intensity athletes and this is also high-intensity athletes and this is also true for endurance training so it helps true for endurance training so it helps the feeling of recovery here uh what's the feeling of recovery here uh what's interesting though is there's another interesting though is there's another meta analysis that came out before this meta analysis that came out before this 2022 paper from Australia uh this one 2022 paper from Australia uh this one was uh the year before and they looked was uh the year before and they looked at the a variety of randomized at the a variety of randomized controlled trials these are highly controlled trials these are highly controlled studies uh that that tend to controlled studies uh that that tend to give us a little bit more of a of an give us a little bit more of a of an Insight on causitive factors of the Insight on causitive factors of the intervention being measured as opposed intervention being measured as opposed to to these cohort studies they're referred to these cohort studies they're referred to where we observe populations and just where we observe populations and just you know see do they get diseases over you know see do they get diseases over time when we're assessing different
time when we're assessing different interventions so randomized controlled interventions so randomized controlled studies are much highly much more highly studies are much highly much more highly controlled and they tend to be a little controlled and they tend to be a little bit more interesting in terms of bit more interesting in terms of findings so they in this paper they findings so they in this paper they looked at a group of randomized control looked at a group of randomized control trials for cold IM cold water immersion trials for cold IM cold water immersion and then also for sauna use so heat and then also for sauna use so heat exposure it wasn't just saas it was you exposure it wasn't just saas it was you know some of it was like heating pads know some of it was like heating pads versus non-heating pads so they looked versus non-heating pads so they looked at ice versus heat or cold versus hot at ice versus heat or cold versus hot and they found and they were just and they found and they were just looking at Doms we're still just talking looking at Doms we're still just talking about delayed onset muscle soreness here about delayed onset muscle soreness here and they found that both heat and cold and they found that both heat and cold reduced delayed onset muscle soreness 24 reduced delayed onset muscle soreness 24 hours after the workout but only heat hours after the workout but only heat was able to sustain that feeling of you was able to sustain that feeling of you know perceived muscle soreness and also know perceived muscle soreness and also muscle damage so actually heat is more muscle damage so actually heat is more Superior in terms of this delayed on set Superior in terms of this delayed on set muscle sorness that you're going to get muscle sorness that you're going to get this is something that people don't this is something that people don't really talk a ton about is like really talk a ton about is like everyone's just hyping up the cold water everyone's just hyping up the cold water cuz it's trendy right now and you can cuz it's trendy right now and you can record a cool video yourself being tough record a cool video yourself being tough but people fail to bring up that heat is but people fail to bring up that heat is probably a little bit better at this you probably a little bit better at this you know and and so I want to bring that up know and and so I want to bring that up cuz we talk about sauna and all these cuz we talk about sauna and all these impacts it has and and we're going to impacts it has and and we're going to move through you say probably at 100 no move through you say probably at 100 no I shouldn't say 100% it's 99% better I shouldn't say 100% it's 99% better well in in terms of recovery based on well in in terms of recovery based on this group of studies it it it points to this group of studies it it it points to heat being Superior to cold uh but you heat being Superior to cold uh but you know in in a research world and know in in a research world and something that's hard to study it's hard something that's hard to study it's hard to make these conclusions cuz you think to make these conclusions cuz you think about cold water and heat it's really about cold water and heat it's really hard to have a control group you know hard to have a control group you know it's hard to conin someone that they're it's hard to conin someone that they're in cold water when they're not you know in cold water when they're not you know cuz you want to compare cold water cuz you want to compare cold water versus you know the not cold water you versus you know the not cold water you can do that as a control but it helps
can do that as a control but it helps when you have like a placebo type trial when you have like a placebo type trial where you can have people not know which where you can have people not know which group they're in you can't really blind group they're in you can't really blind these studies you know if you're cold or these studies you know if you're cold or you're not you're not cold and so it just makes them a little cold and so it just makes them a little less controlled so the the data tend to less controlled so the the data tend to be a little bit more variable there but be a little bit more variable there but still I mean you you do see these trends still I mean you you do see these trends when you're looking at these systematic when you're looking at these systematic reviews and meta analyses that group all reviews and meta analyses that group all the research together they can point to the research together they can point to these more causitive factors of what these more causitive factors of what we're assessing uh and and so that's we're assessing uh and and so that's what we're seeing right now is heat what we're seeing right now is heat seems to be superior if you're looking seems to be superior if you're looking at trying to feel better 48 hours or at trying to feel better 48 hours or longer than 24 hours after if you're longer than 24 hours after if you're doing a heavy workout and you want to doing a heavy workout and you want to feel better just tomorrow seems to not feel better just tomorrow seems to not matter you can do cold or heat but if matter you can do cold or heat but if you're trying to prolong that heat seems you're trying to prolong that heat seems to be superior does cold water have any to be superior does cold water have any cardiovascular benefits like the sauna cardiovascular benefits like the sauna does what's interesting so that that does what's interesting so that that stuff hasn't been studied there are some stuff hasn't been studied there are some papers showing um a reduction in blood papers showing um a reduction in blood pressure with certain populations like pressure with certain populations like there's a a huge study that came out of there's a a huge study that came out of Denmark where they looked at people who Denmark where they looked at people who were swimming in cold water and that was were swimming in cold water and that was just their way of training uh and and just their way of training uh and and those people had a reduction in blood those people had a reduction in blood pressure now the problem is and we're pressure now the problem is and we're going to talk about this study because going to talk about this study because probably like if you listen to the probably like if you listen to the huberman podcast and uh he brings this huberman podcast and uh he brings this up as being like this pillar of cold up as being like this pillar of cold water research you know this water research you know this groundbreaking study but I don't agree groundbreaking study but I don't agree at all with that statement uh so we'll at all with that statement uh so we'll we'll dive into how that relates to we'll dive into how that relates to other aspects but when you're looking at other aspects but when you're looking at a population that's exercising we know a population that's exercising we know exercise has these cardiovascular exercise has these cardiovascular benefits you can't sit here and tell me benefits you can't sit here and tell me that it's the the cold that's doing that that it's the the cold that's doing that I'm not going to buy it uh but there are I'm not going to buy it uh but there are you know papers suggesting a reduction you know papers suggesting a reduction in blood pressure we do not have the in blood pressure we do not have the data suggesting these improved data suggesting these improved cardiovascular risk factors like we do
cardiovascular risk factors like we do with sauna though so doesn't seem to be with sauna though so doesn't seem to be that there's this cardiovascular benefit that there's this cardiovascular benefit however think about it in terms of like however think about it in terms of like what's actually happening when you get what's actually happening when you get in cold water this cold shock response in cold water this cold shock response resembles on some level of similarity resembles on some level of similarity what we see with sauna and then also we what we see with sauna and then also we see with exercise so if you if you see with exercise so if you if you listen to the sauna podcast you heard me listen to the sauna podcast you heard me relate the physiological outcomes that relate the physiological outcomes that happen while you're in the sauna to happen while you're in the sauna to what's happening in exercise now a what's happening in exercise now a similar set of effects is happening when similar set of effects is happening when you get into the cold you hop into the you get into the cold you hop into the cold you know You' you're going to start cold you know You' you're going to start increasing your respiratory rate this increasing your respiratory rate this happens right away and then Joe you happens right away and then Joe you brought up this mamelon dive reflex that brought up this mamelon dive reflex that we'll talk about in a second but right we'll talk about in a second but right away you're going to increase away you're going to increase respiratory rate blood pressure is going respiratory rate blood pressure is going to go up so your blood vessels constrict to go up so your blood vessels constrict because they're trying to maintain heat because they're trying to maintain heat so you've got these nerve receptors that so you've got these nerve receptors that On Your Skin Sense holy [ __ ] it is On Your Skin Sense holy [ __ ] it is freeing and we need to make sure that we freeing and we need to make sure that we don't get rid of any heat we don't want don't get rid of any heat we don't want any blood going to the skin we don't any blood going to the skin we don't want to be sweating we want to save that want to be sweating we want to save that heat so it redirects all that blood flow heat so it redirects all that blood flow to your core your core has all these to your core your core has all these vital organs that need to maintain a vital organs that need to maintain a certain temperature we don't really care certain temperature we don't really care about our fingertips at this moment here about our fingertips at this moment here and and so all the blood flow is getting and and so all the blood flow is getting redirected there now that constriction redirected there now that constriction in blood flow and the increase in in blood flow and the increase in respiratory rate along with an increase respiratory rate along with an increase in heart rate these things increase in heart rate these things increase blood pressure and all these acute blood pressure and all these acute stressors again acute being the stressors again acute being the shortterm stress your body again is shortterm stress your body again is going to be like whoa what the heck just going to be like whoa what the heck just happened and how can I make it so next happened and how can I make it so next time I have this level of stress I don't time I have this level of stress I don't freak out as much and that's the process freak out as much and that's the process of adaptation to these stressors so you of adaptation to these stressors so you see the heart becomes more efficient at see the heart becomes more efficient at pumping blood blood pressure drops you pumping blood blood pressure drops you know you're going to become adapted to know you're going to become adapted to temperature you're going to Thermo temperature you're going to Thermo regulate better and and so I bring that regulate better and and so I bring that up to form a hypothesis of maybe there
up to form a hypothesis of maybe there is some cardiovascular benefit you're is some cardiovascular benefit you're getting here now I don't I don't know getting here now I don't I don't know though we we don't know the answer to though we we don't know the answer to that question could be that it actually that question could be that it actually provides some level of risk we just provides some level of risk we just don't know the answer to that question don't know the answer to that question what we do know is that sauna does that what we do know is that sauna does that though yeah okay yeah see though yeah okay yeah see yeah that'd be interesting to see a yeah that'd be interesting to see a study like that that seees if you have study like that that seees if you have that cardiovascular increase but yeah that cardiovascular increase but yeah because there's a lot of studies on because there's a lot of studies on sauna but that'd be cool if they did a sauna but that'd be cool if they did a study on that as well yeah yeah I'd be study on that as well yeah yeah I'd be curious to see curious to see it um let's talk about other forms of uh it um let's talk about other forms of uh cold immersion uh cryotherapy like cold immersion uh cryotherapy like you'll see it like Antonio Brown did it you'll see it like Antonio Brown did it but oh yeah he also lost like a toe I but oh yeah he also lost like a toe I think AB what are the benefits of that think AB what are the benefits of that compared to like compared to like think going nuts think going nuts I maybe cry turns Antonio I maybe cry turns Antonio Brown you'll see it in those like Brown you'll see it in those like therapy clinics pushing that but I don't therapy clinics pushing that but I don't I don't know if there was a big craze I don't know if there was a big craze compared to like the cold plunge or like compared to like the cold plunge or like in the cold tubs or cold showers this is in the cold tubs or cold showers this is this is kind of quieted down in my this is kind of quieted down in my opinion I I only heard about it one time opinion I I only heard about it one time like a few years ago I had a buddy doing like a few years ago I had a buddy doing it he's like it's the best thing ever it he's like it's the best thing ever you just walk in this freezing cold room you just walk in this freezing cold room and you just standing there for a while and you just standing there for a while and then get out you feel like a brand and then get out you feel like a brand new baby brand new baby well I mean new baby brand new baby well I mean that's essentially it you're trying to that's essentially it you're trying to feel like a brand new baby so um it it feel like a brand new baby so um it it people were latching on to this trend people were latching on to this trend and then these cryo Chambers is what and then these cryo Chambers is what they are they essentially are pumping they are they essentially are pumping this freezing cold liquid nitrogen gas this freezing cold liquid nitrogen gas into these Chambers and so it it's into these Chambers and so it it's actually like way way colder in terms of actually like way way colder in terms of temperature it's from like negative 160 temperature it's from like negative 160 to 260 degrees Fahrenheit this liquid to 260 degrees Fahrenheit this liquid nitrogen gas getting pumped into the nitrogen gas getting pumped into the chambers uh but what's interesting is chambers uh but what's interesting is that subjectively meaning the perception
that subjectively meaning the perception of the person going into different cold of the person going into different cold subjectively people feel more subjectively people feel more uncomfortable in cold water versus cryo uncomfortable in cold water versus cryo now I haven't actually done cry I had now I haven't actually done cry I had the opportunity to do it and I totally the opportunity to do it and I totally turned it down because I just like turned it down because I just like wasn't feeling like going in and I kind wasn't feeling like going in and I kind of wish I would have cuz now I'm kind of of wish I would have cuz now I'm kind of curious you do it when you're in curious you do it when you're in Minnesota yeah basically hop outside Minnesota yeah basically hop outside it's basically negative 160 out right it's basically negative 160 out right now and we walk out when you take your now and we walk out when you take your dog out in shorts and a t-shirt so you dog out in shorts and a t-shirt so you know yeah but so you're in this freezing know yeah but so you're in this freezing cold liquid nitrogen chamber essentially cold liquid nitrogen chamber essentially but the gas versus liquid in terms of but the gas versus liquid in terms of temperature gas isn't able to you know temperature gas isn't able to you know extract heat from your body as extract heat from your body as effectively and so it's it doesn't feel effectively and so it's it doesn't feel as cold uh but the typical Protocols are as cold uh but the typical Protocols are about 3 minutes you hop into these about 3 minutes you hop into these Chambers and a lot of like wellness Chambers and a lot of like wellness centers were really pushing these like centers were really pushing these like Oh Come hop in because of all these Oh Come hop in because of all these effects we see and there are some effects we see and there are some comparative studies looking at cryo comparative studies looking at cryo versus cold water and it seems to be versus cold water and it seems to be based on a majority of the data that based on a majority of the data that cold water is far ior than cryo in terms cold water is far ior than cryo in terms of the benefits you're getting so I of the benefits you're getting so I wouldn't say anyone should waste their wouldn't say anyone should waste their money on going to a facility that has a money on going to a facility that has a cryo chamber when you could go get a bag cryo chamber when you could go get a bag of ice and pour it in your bathtub and of ice and pour it in your bathtub and fill it up with cold water or just as fill it up with cold water or just as cold as you're setting on your bathtub cold as you're setting on your bathtub or even a shower which we'll talk about or even a shower which we'll talk about here in a minute uh that's all free here in a minute uh that's all free minus the water payments but you know minus the water payments but you know you don't have to spend the money on you don't have to spend the money on cryo and so like one paper for example cryo and so like one paper for example looked at um recovery from exercise looked at um recovery from exercise induced muscle damage and cold water induced muscle damage and cold water versus whole body cryo and they did versus whole body cryo and they did single leg Ecentric exercise so it was single leg Ecentric exercise so it was five sets of 15 reps to fatigue and
five sets of 15 reps to fatigue and Centric can you just explain yeah yeah Centric can you just explain yeah yeah good question so uh when you contract good question so uh when you contract muscle there's different ways of muscle there's different ways of different types of muscle contraction different types of muscle contraction you have shortening of the muscle which you have shortening of the muscle which is what you often think of in terms of is what you often think of in terms of Contracting that's called concentric the Contracting that's called concentric the shortening phase and then you have shortening phase and then you have lengthening of the muscle so if you've lengthening of the muscle so if you've ever seen people uh go slow on like the ever seen people uh go slow on like the down phase of a lift that is them down phase of a lift that is them focusing on this Ecentric phase of the focusing on this Ecentric phase of the movement or the lengthening of the movement or the lengthening of the muscle which has been shown to induce muscle which has been shown to induce more muscle damage so people that are more muscle damage so people that are really into hypertrophy based exercise really into hypertrophy based exercise growing muscle size will'll focus a lot growing muscle size will'll focus a lot on heavyweight Ecentric or lengthening on heavyweight Ecentric or lengthening muscle movement ments um and and really muscle movement ments um and and really try to you know Harvest that effect of try to you know Harvest that effect of potentially having more muscle damage so potentially having more muscle damage so when I say Ecentric here I'm talking when I say Ecentric here I'm talking about like inducing muscle damage in a about like inducing muscle damage in a lengthening phase of the repetition um lengthening phase of the repetition um and then isometric is just Contracting and then isometric is just Contracting your muscle but not moving the joint your muscle but not moving the joint itself uh so what they did is they had itself uh so what they did is they had them do them do these um different strength or Ecentric these um different strength or Ecentric exercises and then hopped in either cold exercises and then hopped in either cold water for 10 minutes or cryo after the water for 10 minutes or cryo after the session and then they did a variety of session and then they did a variety of tests afterwards uh one of those being a tests afterwards uh one of those being a counter movement jump assessing like counter movement jump assessing like power and they found that cold water was power and they found that cold water was Superior than cryo in terms of counter Superior than cryo in terms of counter movement and then they also found it was movement and then they also found it was Superior in terms of muscle damage that Superior in terms of muscle damage that was experienced as well from the was experienced as well from the Ecentric exercise so cold water seems to Ecentric exercise so cold water seems to be better and then there's also this in be better and then there's also this in paper uh This was done in 2018 with a paper uh This was done in 2018 with a group of marathon runners and these group of marathon runners and these people where this was in London where people where this was in London where they essentially had them go run a they essentially had them go run a marathon and they checked all these marathon and they checked all these Baseline metrics of um inflammation and
Baseline metrics of um inflammation and muscle damage and all this before they muscle damage and all this before they ran the marathon and then they did it ran the marathon and then they did it again right after and then at 24 hours again right after and then at 24 hours and 48 hours they also test tested and 48 hours they also test tested things like strength and other things like strength and other assessments after the marathon was done assessments after the marathon was done to see what is the impact we have on to see what is the impact we have on cold water versus cryo and then they cold water versus cryo and then they also had a placebo group which was super also had a placebo group which was super cool so they had this group of cool so they had this group of participants that they participants that they told about this juice that was shown to told about this juice that was shown to be anti-inflammatory and they're like oh be anti-inflammatory and they're like oh yeah we're studying the yeah we're studying the anti-inflammatory effects of this juice anti-inflammatory effects of this juice so drink it 5 days before your Marathon so drink it 5 days before your Marathon so that they'd have this placebo effect so that they'd have this placebo effect of like oh I'm going to get decreased of like oh I'm going to get decreased inflammation because you want to see is inflammation because you want to see is there Placebo impact here too but they there Placebo impact here too but they actually just gave them a flavored water actually just gave them a flavored water and it wasn't had no anti-inflammatory and it wasn't had no anti-inflammatory no antioxidants nothing super cool and no antioxidants nothing super cool and so then they compared these three groups so then they compared these three groups you have the cold water cryo and then you have the cold water cryo and then that controlled juice drinking group that controlled juice drinking group that was your placebo group and they that was your placebo group and they compared Muscle Recovery performance and compared Muscle Recovery performance and inflammatory markers and they found that inflammatory markers and they found that cryo is actually worse wow than Placebo cryo is actually worse wow than Placebo than the juice even the placebo wa yeah than the juice even the placebo wa yeah so it it was it was worse it had a so it it was it was worse it had a negative impact on muscle function and negative impact on muscle function and this feeling of soreness and so they this feeling of soreness and so they actually felt more sore than the placebo actually felt more sore than the placebo group group feel a feeling companies out there are feel a feeling companies out there are going to be coming after us you ruining going to be coming after us you ruining our our business Well it Well the business Well it Well the the I keep that's a doubt of my data the I keep that's a doubt of my data when you start talking so then I have no when you start talking so then I have no idea what you guys are saying we'll get idea what you guys are saying we'll get a I'll hear it when I listen back to the a I'll hear it when I listen back to the all good um but you know I don't want to all good um but you know I don't want to say um cryo has a a negative impact say um cryo has a a negative impact because there are papers that show it is because there are papers that show it is superior than cold water there's um one superior than cold water there's um one study that just showed these are middle
study that just showed these are middle and long distance Runners and they and long distance Runners and they looked at after one workout what happens looked at after one workout what happens if you do cold water versus cryo two if you do cold water versus cryo two inflammatory markers and cryo was it was inflammatory markers and cryo was it was able to reduce inflammatory markers able to reduce inflammatory markers better than cold water but this wasn't better than cold water but this wasn't consistent they measured a variety and consistent they measured a variety and some were higher in cold water so it some were higher in cold water so it kind of seems like a I don't know like kind of seems like a I don't know like this it tight of a study basically is this it tight of a study basically is what you're saying well I mean it was a what you're saying well I mean it was a good study but what I what I I point all good study but what I what I I point all this out to say when people act like this out to say when people act like cryo is superior to cold water that is cryo is superior to cold water that is absolutely not the case and you know absolutely not the case and you know there's papers suggest that cryo is there's papers suggest that cryo is actually worse than cold water at all actually worse than cold water at all these you know perceived soreness even these you know perceived soreness even exercise performance and inflammatory exercise performance and inflammatory markers but you know and this comes back markers but you know and this comes back to this like when there's some causitive to this like when there's some causitive factor of some intervention you're going factor of some intervention you're going to tend to see consistent results to tend to see consistent results especially at these uh meta analyses especially at these uh meta analyses that are done the hard part with cold that are done the hard part with cold water and this goes this is true with water and this goes this is true with sauna as well the hard part with these sauna as well the hard part with these cohort observational St studies that are cohort observational St studies that are done is you know we we've talked about done is you know we we've talked about that but even the meta analyses that are that but even the meta analyses that are done you in order to perform a accurate done you in order to perform a accurate metaanalysis you want to look at making metaanalysis you want to look at making sure that the studies that are being sure that the studies that are being done are among consistent populations done are among consistent populations you want to try to control for all these you want to try to control for all these variables of you know are they comparing variables of you know are they comparing the same age groups same activity level the same age groups same activity level same population in terms of all these same population in terms of all these other aspects diet does Diet have any other aspects diet does Diet have any absolutely yep and and so um in meta absolutely yep and and so um in meta analyses they're able to do this really analyses they're able to do this really really well but if you don't have a lot really well but if you don't have a lot of consistent studies then you don't of consistent studies then you don't have a lot of data to choose from you have a lot of data to choose from you know so there's just not a lot of know so there's just not a lot of research on certain things this being research on certain things this being one of them the cold water versus cryo one of them the cold water versus cryo uh but it it does seem that there's a uh but it it does seem that there's a there's a pretty
there's a pretty clear group of research suggesting cryo clear group of research suggesting cryo is absolutely not more beneficial than is absolutely not more beneficial than cold water and and so Reed you asked cold water and and so Reed you asked about the different modalities of cold about the different modalities of cold water there's also just shower in water there's also just shower in general and even just like being outside general and even just like being outside yeah cuz a lot of people don't have yeah cuz a lot of people don't have access to a cold tub those are pretty access to a cold tub those are pretty expensive so like most people have expensive so like most people have access to showers so like what's the access to showers so like what's the protocol just take their old freezer and protocol just take their old freezer and fill it up with water yeah yeah that fill it up with water yeah yeah that works too you got to waterproof it works too you got to waterproof it though watch videos I thought about though watch videos I thought about doing yeah you see people like coming in doing yeah you see people like coming in with sludgehammer the morning breaking with sludgehammer the morning breaking the ice um yeah you can use a shower and the ice um yeah you can use a shower and there is a paper that looked at just there is a paper that looked at just cold showers and saw do you have the cold showers and saw do you have the same like physiological adaptations that same like physiological adaptations that you do with cold water immersion and you do with cold water immersion and they tested a couple different protocols they tested a couple different protocols with a couple different shower with a couple different shower temperatures and found that the coldest temperatures and found that the coldest was at 10° which is 50° or 10 Dees was at 10° which is 50° or 10 Dees Celsius 50° Fahrenheit which actually Celsius 50° Fahrenheit which actually happens to be like the coldest you're happens to be like the coldest you're going to get your shower anyways so they going to get your shower anyways so they went to this um this temperature for went to this um this temperature for that reason full blast yeah that's like that reason full blast yeah that's like absolutely as cold as you can get it absolutely as cold as you can get it most households are going to be right most households are going to be right around that 50 some can't even get like around that 50 some can't even get like you go to these hotter climate areas in you go to these hotter climate areas in summer freezing water when I'm doing it summer freezing water when I'm doing it Minnesota Minnesota we we for sure get Minnesota Minnesota we we for sure get down to that 50 degree or 10° C Freez down to that 50 degree or 10° C Freez whereas like you go to like Florida or whereas like you go to like Florida or Texas or something and like in the Texas or something and like in the summer it's harder to get the water summer it's harder to get the water temperature that cold but anyway they temperature that cold but anyway they they they comp Ed the um essentially it they they comp Ed the um essentially it was like 50 to 60° or 10 to 15° C water was like 50 to 60° or 10 to 15° C water temperatures and 50° seem to have more temperatures and 50° seem to have more significant benefits here but it did significant benefits here but it did result in a similar level of adaptations result in a similar level of adaptations now what's important to note when you're now what's important to note when you're doing a shower protocol you don't have doing a shower protocol you don't have to put your head under the shower at all
to put your head under the shower at all and and the thing about it when you do and and the thing about it when you do cold water immersion I mean how many cold water immersion I mean how many people on the videos do you see just people on the videos do you see just like holding themselves underw these are like holding themselves underw these are all out immersions that are being all out immersions that are being studied yeah like you I mean people will studied yeah like you I mean people will like go under water come right back up like go under water come right back up but the benefits you're getting uh you but the benefits you're getting uh you don't have to put your head under at all don't have to put your head under at all and so when you're in the shower what and so when you're in the shower what you want to do is the the one area that you want to do is the the one area that will cause this reflex is your torso will cause this reflex is your torso upper chest area uh that's going to like upper chest area uh that's going to like you notice that when you get into like a you notice that when you get into like a cold lake and you're walking in the cold lake and you're walking in the shore at some point all get well it's shore at some point all get well it's that that's a different uh that's a that that's a different uh that's a different reflex there of like yeah different reflex there of like yeah feeling um feeling the little boys feeling um feeling the little boys getting a little cold but you get that getting a little cold but you get that that gasp reflex as you start getting that gasp reflex as you start getting more towards your di Fram your chest and more towards your di Fram your chest and and so that's the area that you want to and so that's the area that you want to make sure get through yeah exactly make sure get through yeah exactly you're keeping like your arms out of you're keeping like your arms out of water so so you can do that in the water so so you can do that in the shower and and what you want to do is shower and and what you want to do is just make sure the the water is hitting just make sure the the water is hitting your chest for a period of time and then your chest for a period of time and then flip around make it hit your back and flip around make it hit your back and then keep doing that and switching and then keep doing that and switching and you can treat the protocol the same try you can treat the protocol the same try three minutes on the chest switch do three minutes on the chest switch do three minutes on the back and then end three minutes on the back and then end with like 30 seconds on each side or so with like 30 seconds on each side or so yeah Gary Breco was saying your your yeah Gary Breco was saying your your best buddy uh Gary Brea was saying like best buddy uh Gary Brea was saying like two to six minutes is kind of where that two to six minutes is kind of where that sweet spot where you want to go where sweet spot where you want to go where you see benefits at 2 minutes but like you see benefits at 2 minutes but like don't exceed six ah that yeah I feel don't exceed six ah that yeah I feel like exceeding isn't going to matter cuz like exceeding isn't going to matter cuz you're adapting the problem with you're adapting the problem with well problem with Gary Brea is a lot of well problem with Gary Brea is a lot of things but the problem with the two to things but the problem with the two to six minute thing is like you're going to six minute thing is like you're going to adapt to that and you're going to adapt to that and you're going to actually need to go above that six actually need to go above that six minutes okay you know think about it as minutes okay you know think about it as what we were talking about before where what we were talking about before where it's going to not induce this stress it's going to not induce this stress response if you keep stopping at the response if you keep stopping at the same amount of time at some point you're same amount of time at some point you're going to have to if you want to continue
going to have to if you want to continue to see these adaptations you're going to to see these adaptations you're going to have to get out of the shower and and have to get out of the shower and and hop in an ice bath because the shower hop in an ice bath because the shower can only get so cold and you don't want can only get so cold and you don't want to sit in there for an hour maybe I mean to sit in there for an hour maybe I mean go ahead yeah the 2 to six range is just go ahead yeah the 2 to six range is just a madeup number uh classic Gary but you a madeup number uh classic Gary but you um yeah I wouldn't stop at two but or um yeah I wouldn't stop at two but or stop at six now for the two minute thing stop at six now for the two minute thing it's totally going to be different hop it's totally going to be different hop in the shower and make sure you induce in the shower and make sure you induce that gasp reflex where it takes your that gasp reflex where it takes your breath away you're going to feel that breath away you're going to feel that and then try to stay in there till where and then try to stay in there till where you can feel this level of and this is you can feel this level of and this is where you know we'll talk about the where you know we'll talk about the mamalian dive reflex where you get in mamalian dive reflex where you get in this cold shock response and then your this cold shock response and then your body actually tries to like preserve body actually tries to like preserve oxygen and they call it the dive reflex oxygen and they call it the dive reflex similar to when people are like diving similar to when people are like diving underwater and cold or yeah diving in underwater and cold or yeah diving in cold water and your respiratory rate is cold water and your respiratory rate is going to go down it kind of resembles going to go down it kind of resembles like holding your breath in a way your like holding your breath in a way your blood pressure is going to drop your blood pressure is going to drop your heart rate drops your parasympathetic heart rate drops your parasympathetic nervous system gets really in control nervous system gets really in control and that's your like rest and digest and that's your like rest and digest calm yourself down part of your nervous calm yourself down part of your nervous system there's a lot of theories system there's a lot of theories suggesting that that's actually what suggesting that that's actually what happens after a period of time in cold happens after a period of time in cold and um Joe when you do this you'll and um Joe when you do this you'll notice Reed you you've probably noticed notice Reed you you've probably noticed this so uh and this is what I shoot for this so uh and this is what I shoot for getting in the cold and it happens a lot getting in the cold and it happens a lot earlier but you you get in the cold you earlier but you you get in the cold you get this cold shock and then after for get this cold shock and then after for me it's right around like 30 seconds I me it's right around like 30 seconds I can actually get pretty comfortable and can actually get pretty comfortable and it's not like you get acclimated yeah it's not like you get acclimated yeah and then you actually start to calm and then you actually start to calm yourself down and so that initial cold yourself down and so that initial cold shock is what you have to kind of push shock is what you have to kind of push through and that's the hardest part so through and that's the hardest part so if you're getting into like a cold water if you're getting into like a cold water immersion protocol uh just try getting immersion protocol uh just try getting to that point where you can actually to that point where you can actually sustain it because once you get past sustain it because once you get past that point I mean you can stay in there
that point I mean you can stay in there for quite a while um but you don't want for quite a while um but you don't want to stay in there too long and if water to stay in there too long and if water is really cold so when you get into like is really cold so when you get into like the approaching freezing temperatures the approaching freezing temperatures that water can reduce your body that water can reduce your body temperature pretty significantly if you temperature pretty significantly if you stay in there for a long period of time stay in there for a long period of time I mean I wouldn't recommend anyone go in I mean I wouldn't recommend anyone go in these freezing cold tubs for longer than these freezing cold tubs for longer than a few minutes I mean definitely not a few minutes I mean definitely not longer yeah so you can get hypothermia longer yeah so you can get hypothermia where your body temperature when it where your body temperature when it drops induces these ectopic drops induces these ectopic heart conditions which are essentially heart conditions which are essentially like these like these improper conduction in the heart that improper conduction in the heart that causes these irregular heart beats that causes these irregular heart beats that can actually kill you and so you you can actually kill you and so you you definitely do not want to stay in there definitely do not want to stay in there to that point and so if you're doing to that point and so if you're doing much Co let's say kind of just sorry uh much Co let's say kind of just sorry uh let's say you've adapted you've slowly let's say you've adapted you've slowly worked your way down to that freezing worked your way down to that freezing temperature are you more adapted at that temperature are you more adapted at that point or does it really matter with it point or does it really matter with it being free being free you will never be able to sit in that you will never be able to sit in that water and not have it have an impact on water and not have it have an impact on your body temperature um yeah I mean your body temperature um yeah I mean like some of the studies like one study like some of the studies like one study when we talk about like the mental when we talk about like the mental health side of things uh they used an health side of things uh they used an hour they had cold water their hour they had cold water their participants sit in cold water for an participants sit in cold water for an hour but that water was 57° you know hour but that water was 57° you know just short of 15° C and so you can sit just short of 15° C and so you can sit in there for an hour but you're in there for an hour but you're definitely not sitting in 32 to 40 some definitely not sitting in 32 to 40 some degrees at that time so yeah you degrees at that time so yeah you definitely don't want to to induce definitely don't want to to induce hypothermia I wouldn't recommend people hypothermia I wouldn't recommend people try to push passes Point yeah when try to push passes Point yeah when you're in cold water um so can I touch you're in cold water um so can I touch on athletes again real quick yeah so
on athletes again real quick yeah so with them doing the cold water to reduce with them doing the cold water to reduce their uh soreness their uh soreness what about with um people who work out what about with um people who work out and bodybuilders and trying and bodybuilders and trying to gain muscle and then they hit that to gain muscle and then they hit that cold water yeah I was thinking the same cold water yeah I was thinking the same thing cuz like I'm doing a really high thing cuz like I'm doing a really high protein diet I'm trying to build muscle protein diet I'm trying to build muscle like is this something that'll be like is this something that'll be beneficial for me to gain muscle or does beneficial for me to gain muscle or does it have a decree this is the part hey it have a decree this is the part hey for all you people listening that just for all you people listening that just absolutely love cold water plug your absolutely love cold water plug your ears for this okay because this is going ears for this okay because this is going to be controversial no this is not it's to be controversial no this is not it's not controversial because the Reon I not controversial because the Reon I think is controversial no it's just like think is controversial no it's just like people have this thought of like cold people have this thought of like cold water is going to cure cancer and it's water is going to cure cancer and it's going to solve all the world's problems going to solve all the world's problems just everyone hop in a cold tub so this just everyone hop in a cold tub so this is the area that people get a little bit is the area that people get a little bit like wait what no cold water only has like wait what no cold water only has benefits no risks um but there's a group benefits no risks um but there's a group sound just like that there's a group of sound just like that there's a group of papers showing this clear negative papers showing this clear negative impact cold water has on muscle impact cold water has on muscle hypertrophy so muscle growth even hypertrophy so muscle growth even strength adaptations and then also strength adaptations and then also protein synthesis so when I say muscle protein synthesis so when I say muscle growth when your muscles need to grow growth when your muscles need to grow they'll go through protein synthesis they'll go through protein synthesis which if you haven't yet listened to the which if you haven't yet listened to the protein episode where we break down protein episode where we break down really all the mechanisms of how that's really all the mechanisms of how that's happening but essentially your muscles happening but essentially your muscles need to take up amino acids from the need to take up amino acids from the blood and then use them to build back blood and then use them to build back stronger and build back larger and cold stronger and build back larger and cold water when done in combination with any water when done in combination with any strength training resistance training strength training resistance training that's aimed at improving strength and that's aimed at improving strength and muscle size has a negative impact on muscle size has a negative impact on this wow and I say that's so that's not this wow and I say that's so that's not for me then I say that's controversial so we brought up this 2021 meta analysis when we were talking about
meta analysis when we were talking about uh people who were exercising and doing uh people who were exercising and doing cold afterwards and how it improve cold afterwards and how it improve delayed onset muscle soreness well what delayed onset muscle soreness well what they also found is you know in this they also found is you know in this group of research things like one rep group of research things like one rep max were decreasing so people's strength max were decreasing so people's strength adaptations were declining and this is adaptations were declining and this is pretty well represented in a couple pretty well represented in a couple different studies one of them being on different studies one of them being on protein synthesis and what happens protein synthesis and what happens to your muscle protein synthesis after to your muscle protein synthesis after you exercise if you go in the cold water you exercise if you go in the cold water so they took a group of young male so they took a group of young male adults and they had them do a single leg adults and they had them do a single leg resistance training exercise to fatigue resistance training exercise to fatigue and did um it was like a 20 minute and did um it was like a 20 minute protocol that they did on one leg and protocol that they did on one leg and then the other leg was not you know then the other leg was not you know pushing weight at all and then they had pushing weight at all and then they had them put the muscle or the lower body in them put the muscle or the lower body in cold water and then they came back cold water and then they came back another time and did it with the other another time and did it with the other leg and used room temperature water so leg and used room temperature water so you've got a cold water versus you know you've got a cold water versus you know this control part and and they're their this control part and and they're their own control participants so it's the own control participants so it's the same person and they use different legs same person and they use different legs to make sure they're wasn't anything to make sure they're wasn't anything that happened with the previous that happened with the previous resistance protocol on that one leg that resistance protocol on that one leg that impacted the other so it's a pretty impacted the other so it's a pretty tightly controlled study and then they tightly controlled study and then they had them drink this uh labeled protein had them drink this uh labeled protein drink that we talked a lot about in the drink that we talked a lot about in the protein podcast how you can actually protein podcast how you can actually label these amino acids so you can see label these amino acids so you can see when if they get absorbed into the when if they get absorbed into the bloodstream when you drink a protein bloodstream when you drink a protein shake and then you can see where they shake and then you can see where they end up and so if you you know stab the end up and so if you you know stab the muscle and take out this little chunk of muscle and take out this little chunk of the muscle the biopsies it's a it's a the muscle the biopsies it's a it's a brutal process I when I had I had these brutal process I when I had I had these done a few times the muscle biopsies and done a few times the muscle biopsies and that was in my leg too which is what that was in my leg too which is what happened in these participants and I was happened in these participants and I was just crying like a baby it actually when just crying like a baby it actually when I was doing research down in Australia I was doing research down in Australia and everyone was like laughing at me and everyone was like laughing at me because I'm just like oh my God oh my because I'm just like oh my God oh my God because you go into the muscle and
God because you go into the muscle and it literally is like a apple core it literally is like a apple core process where they they put this um this process where they they put this um this thing into into the muscle that is when thing into into the muscle that is when they twist it it will pull some of the they twist it it will pull some of the muscle out and then you use a suction muscle out and then you use a suction component to pull it out and I got to be component to pull it out and I got to be on both sides so I've done this process on both sides so I've done this process and I've also had it done to me and it and I've also had it done to me and it is it's more uncomfortable for some is it's more uncomfortable for some people like me is apparently I'm a baby people like me is apparently I'm a baby but it is it's painful but anyway so but it is it's painful but anyway so they do this and then they can then they do this and then they can then assess how much of that protein is assess how much of that protein is absorbed into the the muscle itself and absorbed into the the muscle itself and they found that the cold water decreased they found that the cold water decreased the ability of the muscle to to absorb the ability of the muscle to to absorb this protein and obviously that's going this protein and obviously that's going to have an impact on protein synthesis to have an impact on protein synthesis and that was actually demonstrated in and that was actually demonstrated in another study too like what's actually another study too like what's actually happening within the muscle the cold happening within the muscle the cold water I didn't think it would have any water I didn't think it would have any effect that's just wild so basically if effect that's just wild so basically if you're trying to build muscle you don't you're trying to build muscle you don't want to do any cold I mean that's what want to do any cold I mean that's what it's sounded like so then another group it's sounded like so then another group or another paper they assess kind of a or another paper they assess kind of a similar approach here where they had a similar approach here where they had a group of participants that were their group of participants that were their own control subjects did lower body own control subjects did lower body resistance training what happens with resistance training what happens with cold water versus just an active cold water versus just an active recovery so you know stretching just recovery so you know stretching just cooling down and what does cold water do cooling down and what does cold water do to within the muscle cell itself and so to within the muscle cell itself and so when your muscle is when your muscle is damaged that is sensed by a variety of damaged that is sensed by a variety of things within the muscle and it it your things within the muscle and it it your muscle has muscle has multiple nuclei within it it's the only multiple nuclei within it it's the only multi-nucleated cell in the body and multi-nucleated cell in the body and that just showcases how important your that just showcases how important your darn muscle is uh these nuclei are just darn muscle is uh these nuclei are just kind of hanging out the nucleus of the kind of hanging out the nucleus of the cell is really what has this blueprint cell is really what has this blueprint and ability to send out all these and ability to send out all these different proteins and make all these different proteins and make all these different components of the cell to make different components of the cell to make sure it survives and can grow and so the sure it survives and can grow and so the muscle just got a bunch of these they're muscle just got a bunch of these they're referred to as satellite cells and referred to as satellite cells and they're just kind of hanging out waiting
they're just kind of hanging out waiting to see if anything's damaged that they to see if anything's damaged that they just kind of like wake up and like whoa just kind of like wake up and like whoa whoa whoa let's fix that and that whoa whoa let's fix that and that initiates this protein synthesis process initiates this protein synthesis process or it's involved in this protein or it's involved in this protein synthesis process and they found that synthesis process and they found that cold water immersion suppressed this cold water immersion suppressed this activation of these satellite cells so activation of these satellite cells so it hindered that cell's ability to grow it hindered that cell's ability to grow and then and it resulted in a decline in and then and it resulted in a decline in the size of the muscle now that wasn't the size of the muscle now that wasn't tested in this study but this same group tested in this study but this same group of authors did a kind of a a followup on of authors did a kind of a a followup on this exact same mechanism so they found this exact same mechanism so they found that there were these enzymes that were that there were these enzymes that were suppressed in terms of activating suppressed in terms of activating protein synthesis and then that protein synthesis and then that satellite Cell Activation declined too satellite Cell Activation declined too so the muscle's ability to do this now so the muscle's ability to do this now this was just one acute bout of exercise this was just one acute bout of exercise what happens over time though and they what happens over time though and they found so what they did is they took a found so what they did is they took a group of people and measured them over group of people and measured them over 12 weeks and had them either doing cold 12 weeks and had them either doing cold water after their resistance training water after their resistance training sessions or active recovery and this sessions or active recovery and this training protocol was aimed at improving training protocol was aimed at improving strength and increasing improving muscle strength and increasing improving muscle size and they found that the size and they found that the participants doing cold water immersion participants doing cold water immersion had a decline in strength adaptations had a decline in strength adaptations decline wow like they didn't even decline wow like they didn't even maintain I'm glad you just brought that maintain I'm glad you just brought that up cuz I don't want to I don't want to up cuz I don't want to I don't want to confuse people no they they still confuse people no they they still improved strength it doesn't diminish improved strength it doesn't diminish your ability to increase strength they your ability to increase strength they still did it was just if they didn't do still did it was just if they didn't do cold water they had a much greater cold water they had a much greater increase in strength okay and so cold increase in strength okay and so cold water just hindered the ability to water just hindered the ability to improve strength but they still did have improve strength but they still did have an increase and they they it was pretty an increase and they they it was pretty significant too they they still did see significant too they they still did see quite a bit of strength it was just much quite a bit of strength it was just much much much more of an increase in that much much more of an increase in that Recovery Group so if you're trying to Recovery Group so if you're trying to build muscle just stay away from cold build muscle just stay away from cold Merion yeah and they they actually have Merion yeah and they they actually have this interesting point at the end where this interesting point at the end where it's a group of data suggesting okay we it's a group of data suggesting okay we saw a decline in muscle cross-sectional
saw a decline in muscle cross-sectional area so they looked at the size of these area so they looked at the size of these muscle cells which is what grows that muscle cells which is what grows that causes your muscles to look larger or to causes your muscles to look larger or to be larger I should say and so that was be larger I should say and so that was declined protein synthesis was declined declined protein synthesis was declined and strength was declined so they say and strength was declined so they say taken together these studies S suggest taken together these studies S suggest that individuals who use strength that individuals who use strength training to improve athletic performance training to improve athletic performance recover from an injury or maintain their recover from an injury or maintain their health should therefore reconsider health should therefore reconsider whether to use cold water immersion as whether to use cold water immersion as an adant to their training so if you fit an adant to their training so if you fit amongst that group of people which I'd amongst that group of people which I'd argue even if you don't I mean why would argue even if you don't I mean why would you ever want to impact your ability to you ever want to impact your ability to to grow muscle I mean tune in to the to grow muscle I mean tune in to the protein podcast where I mean we touch on protein podcast where I mean we touch on it and I would love to talk about the it and I would love to talk about the importance of muscle as a importance of muscle as a whole podcast itself with the cold water whole podcast itself with the cold water it's it's like a mental strengthening it's it's like a mental strengthening more than anything yeah I mean that's more than anything yeah I mean that's kind of what I'm getting from this is kind of what I'm getting from this is like it wakes you up in in the morning like it wakes you up in in the morning you're kind of pushing yourself through you're kind of pushing yourself through that stressor and in that way but as for that stressor and in that way but as for athletic athletic abilities I would say it's negatively abilities I would say it's negatively impacting you is that kind of true or is impacting you is that kind of true or is that a bad question I mean no no no that a bad question I mean no no no that's that's a good question question that's that's a good question question no dumb no dumb question yeah it's a no dumb no dumb question yeah it's a good question but I wouldn't say it it's good question but I wouldn't say it it's necessarily true now because think about necessarily true now because think about the athlet the athlet that do cold water immersion afterwards that do cold water immersion afterwards so that they can come out and perform uh so that they can come out and perform uh the cold water did not have an impact on the cold water did not have an impact on your ability to go through this high your ability to go through this high intensity performance after you know so intensity performance after you know so like when you hop in a cold tub after a like when you hop in a cold tub after a game you can still perform at that level game you can still perform at that level and you're not as sore that improves and you're not as sore that improves inance stamina well and just ability to inance stamina well and just ability to do the high-intensity exercise strength do the high-intensity exercise strength is diminished but a lot of athletes you
is diminished but a lot of athletes you know it's not know it's not they're relying on their capacity to they're relying on their capacity to perform at these high intensities perform at these high intensities relative to like get your heart rate up relative to like get your heart rate up you know and and be able to sustain you know and and be able to sustain these long games and practices at high these long games and practices at high intensities that is not impaired that's intensities that is not impaired that's improved and so it still serves a improved and so it still serves a purpose here but they don't often during purpose here but they don't often during the season you don't see Athletes the season you don't see Athletes Training for muscle growth and strength Training for muscle growth and strength adaptations your training actually adaptations your training actually shifts while you're in season to shifts while you're in season to really not you're focusing more on really not you're focusing more on specific movements and not working on or specific movements and not working on or not inducing as much muscle damage in not inducing as much muscle damage in muscle growth that is not your goal muscle growth that is not your goal during season that stuff comes off during season that stuff comes off season and then you wouldn't incorporate season and then you wouldn't incorporate cold water you wouldn't incorporate ice cold water you wouldn't incorporate ice during that period of time so it still during that period of time so it still plays a role in athletes so these plays a role in athletes so these studies sound like they're doing cold studies sound like they're doing cold water immersion like right as they're water immersion like right as they're doing training is there any studies that doing training is there any studies that show like cuz I take a shower in the show like cuz I take a shower in the morning but I don't out in the morning morning but I don't out in the morning would that still decrease my muscle would that still decrease my muscle gains if I take if I did in the morning gains if I take if I did in the morning like or is it just like that short time like or is it just like that short time period where your muscles are trying to period where your muscles are trying to rebuild I'm really glad you brought that rebuild I'm really glad you brought that up because the paper that looked at the up because the paper that looked at the satellite cell you know delaying the satellite cell you know delaying the satellite Cell Activation that was still satellite Cell Activation that was still present after 24 hours they still saw present after 24 hours they still saw this attenuation in activation of this attenuation in activation of protein synthesis and building so even protein synthesis and building so even if you did a cold water immersion in the if you did a cold water immersion in the morning to wake yourself up and you did morning to wake yourself up and you did training in the evening it seems to be training in the evening it seems to be that there could still be this effect that there could still be this effect wow um this you know prolonged impact wow um this you know prolonged impact that cold water has so no I wouldn't say that cold water has so no I wouldn't say that you could just change the time I that you could just change the time I mean if you're not going to do if you're mean if you're not going to do if you're not going to lift for a couple days and not going to lift for a couple days and go ahead and hop in the cold water but go ahead and hop in the cold water but if your goals are strength and if your goals are strength and hypertrophy I'd stay out of the tub now hypertrophy I'd stay out of the tub now I it's interesting though because I I it's interesting though because I don't want to tell people to stay out of don't want to tell people to stay out of it because of this other really cool it because of this other really cool area I mean Joe brought up this like
area I mean Joe brought up this like wake up in the morning determination wake up in the morning determination best cup of coffee I kept read reading best cup of coffee I kept read reading that on Reddit like people are like this that on Reddit like people are like this is the best cup of coffee I've ever had is the best cup of coffee I've ever had I'm so awake so alert yeah and and that I'm so awake so alert yeah and and that like that plays a huge role in people's like that plays a huge role in people's lives I mean again I don't ever want to lives I mean again I don't ever want to tell someone that their goal shouldn't tell someone that their goal shouldn't be preserving maintaining muscle mass or be preserving maintaining muscle mass or anything um as you go through life and anything um as you go through life and have stressful things happening and you have stressful things happening and you want to take advantage of cold water and want to take advantage of cold water and the impact that it has on you know this the impact that it has on you know this alertness and also mood and things like alertness and also mood and things like depression and anxiety that area of depression and anxiety that area of research is really interesting uh so research is really interesting uh so there's this really cool study I talked there's this really cool study I talked about where they had people sit in water about where they had people sit in water for an hour it was 58 Dees and they had for an hour it was 58 Dees and they had this group of people sit in there and this group of people sit in there and they measured these circulating catacol they measured these circulating catacol amines and these catacol amines are amines and these catacol amines are dopamine norepinephrine and epinephrine dopamine norepinephrine and epinephrine and these catac colines play a role in and these catac colines play a role in reward hard mood that Feelgood reward hard mood that Feelgood determination and they measured them determination and they measured them before they got in the cold water and before they got in the cold water and then they looked at them right after and then they looked at them right after and then for couple hours after that time then for couple hours after that time point and they saw a point and they saw a 500% increase in epinephrine and a 250% 500% increase in epinephrine and a 250% increase in dopamine that's huge and I increase in dopamine that's huge and I mean that level of dopamine increase is mean that level of dopamine increase is similar to what you see from like these similar to what you see from like these dopaminergic medications that are used dopaminergic medications that are used for or I I should say like drugs that for or I I should say like drugs that increase dopamine that are so addictive increase dopamine that are so addictive and it's so like you hear people like and it's so like you hear people like say they're addicted to this cold water say they're addicted to this cold water I don't buy that because of what I I don't buy that because of what I talked about at the beginning where the talked about at the beginning where the path to leaste resistance we will get path to leaste resistance we will get addicted to things that are not addicted to things that are not uncomfortable for us and if you're doing uncomfortable for us and if you're doing cold water correctly it's going to be cold water correctly it's going to be uncomfortable for you so it's hard to uncomfortable for you so it's hard to get yourself to do it so whether or not get yourself to do it so whether or not you can be addicted to that we don't
you can be addicted to that we don't know that I don't think so just because know that I don't think so just because again it's difficult to initiate well again it's difficult to initiate well but yeah I mean you do have this crazy but yeah I mean you do have this crazy post response of the dopamine and that post response of the dopamine and that Feelgood and that grit that drive that Feelgood and that grit that drive that determination that is there it's hard to determination that is there it's hard to study that but this increase in these study that but this increase in these catac colomines that play a role in that catac colomines that play a role in that point to okay there's a role here and point to okay there's a role here and they they found that these levels did they they found that these levels did drop after they got out of the water but drop after they got out of the water but they were still higher than Baseline they were still higher than Baseline after a couple hours there and so they after a couple hours there and so they remained elevated and there's another remained elevated and there's another study this was a survey analysis of um study this was a survey analysis of um de of depression symptoms this was done de of depression symptoms this was done in 2020 and they randomized people into in 2020 and they randomized people into um they did this was actually with cryo um they did this was actually with cryo oddly enough and they had people do 10 oddly enough and they had people do 10 cryo sessions over the span of two weeks cryo sessions over the span of two weeks so it was five cow sessions um one week so it was five cow sessions um one week and then five the next week and then the and then five the next week and then the other group was just a control they had other group was just a control they had the actually stand in the cryo chamber the actually stand in the cryo chamber but they didn't drop the temperat they but they didn't drop the temperat they still dropped the temperature but it still dropped the temperature but it wasn't to induce the cold water or the wasn't to induce the cold water or the cryo stimulus and so they had the two cryo stimulus and so they had the two groups and then they looked at assessing groups and then they looked at assessing depression symptoms there's a group of depression symptoms there's a group of surveys that um are validated to surveys that um are validated to actually assess somebody's level of actually assess somebody's level of depression you see these used in depression you see these used in clinical settings they're accurate to clinical settings they're accurate to determine if somebody does have determine if somebody does have depression and especially accurate to depression and especially accurate to assess symptoms of depression but assess symptoms of depression but they're subjective meaning that the they're subjective meaning that the participants just kind of filling out participants just kind of filling out how they feel at that day so take it how they feel at that day so take it with as much salt as you want uh but with as much salt as you want uh but they did show that the cryo improved they did show that the cryo improved symptoms of depression so there's this symptoms of depression so there's this impact of cold again probably on these impact of cold again probably on these catac colam Mees improving mood catac colam Mees improving mood improving symptoms of depression there improving symptoms of depression there that area research is really cool and so that area research is really cool and so when I when I push people away from
when I when I push people away from using cold you know if if you're relying using cold you know if if you're relying on it for the mood aspects and you know on it for the mood aspects and you know you're you're not losing mus depend on you're you're not losing mus depend on what your goals are it does and because what your goals are it does and because you're not losing the ability to grow you're not losing the ability to grow muscle you're not losing the ability to muscle you're not losing the ability to gain strength you're just decreasing gain strength you're just decreasing that you're attenuating it it's harder that you're attenuating it it's harder to grow mus harder to strength and so so to grow mus harder to strength and so so it does still obviously serve a purpose it does still obviously serve a purpose and and yeah that's just a a fascinating and and yeah that's just a a fascinating area of research area of research um so I was listening to Gary Brea's um so I was listening to Gary Brea's podcast and he was talking about Brown podcast and he was talking about Brown fat you go into it he's saying like you fat you go into it he's saying like you use these cold tubs and you'll lose use these cold tubs and you'll lose Brown fat I I don't know a whole lot Brown fat I I don't know a whole lot about Brown fat can you kind of dive about Brown fat can you kind of dive into that yeah this is that that stupid into that yeah this is that that stupid swimming study from Denmark I shouldn't swimming study from Denmark I shouldn't say this this is this is a great study say this this is this is a great study uh I I'm really like I I do love the uh I I'm really like I I do love the outcomes that were found I just hate it outcomes that were found I just hate it when people Mis represent what was when people Mis represent what was actually found I I mean um and before I actually found I I mean um and before I get into that I mean Gary Brea has just get into that I mean Gary Brea has just like this classic way of talking about like this classic way of talking about things that he knows people are going to things that he knows people are going to really tune into one of them being like really tune into one of them being like weight loss and this cold water weight loss and this cold water immersion is the best tool for weight immersion is the best tool for weight loss that is just crazy um now Dr Luke loss that is just crazy um now Dr Luke loves Gary well cuz I saw him talking loves Gary well cuz I saw him talking about cold water he starts talking about about cold water he starts talking about these like heat shock proteins like K these like heat shock proteins like K you you have no idea what you're talking you you have no idea what you're talking about maybe you're talking about here um about maybe you're talking about here um but anyway we'll we'll save that for but anyway we'll we'll save that for another time sorry not sorry Gary but so another time sorry not sorry Gary but so the brown adapost tissue this is a a the brown adapost tissue this is a a common area of debate with cold water common area of debate with cold water and people trying to use cold water as and people trying to use cold water as this like weight loss tool and it's like this like weight loss tool and it's like why are people trying to come up with why are people trying to come up with these just like tactics of weight loss these just like tactics of weight loss like get out there and move go do some like get out there and move go do some freaking exercise stop trying to figure freaking exercise stop trying to figure out this two-minute solution to your out this two-minute solution to your life's issues you know um not saying
life's issues you know um not saying that like weight loss is your life's that like weight loss is your life's issue fat loss improves Health but like issue fat loss improves Health but like people are always looking at ways to people are always looking at ways to lose weight and trying to make it as lose weight and trying to make it as simple as they can uh but in brown simple as they can uh but in brown adapost tissue and cold water tends to adapost tissue and cold water tends to to be that little Target there that to be that little Target there that people go after now brown adapost tissue people go after now brown adapost tissue your your body has different types of your your body has different types of fat it's got white fat and beige fat or fat it's got white fat and beige fat or brown fat and atopos tis tissue is fat brown fat and atopos tis tissue is fat and brown adapost tissue the reason it and brown adapost tissue the reason it has a beige brown color to it versus has a beige brown color to it versus white fat is it has a lot of white fat is it has a lot of mitochondria mitochondria and inside of mitochondria mitochondria and inside of these cells there's this uh thing called these cells there's this uh thing called myoglobin it's the the ability to bind myoglobin it's the the ability to bind oxygen and utilize it in the oxygen and utilize it in the mitochondria it's why you see like red mitochondria it's why you see like red meat versus white meat it's relative to meat versus white meat it's relative to this myoglobin and mitochondria content this myoglobin and mitochondria content and mitochondria and mitochondria are oh go back throw back to biology the are oh go back throw back to biology the PowerHouse of the cell right so so PowerHouse of the cell right so so mitochondria produce a ton of energy mitochondria produce a ton of energy they also have this ability to induce they also have this ability to induce nonshivering thermogenesis so Thermo nonshivering thermogenesis so Thermo regulation regulating your body regulation regulating your body temperature without shivering and the temperature without shivering and the way they do that is actually really cool way they do that is actually really cool there's two layers without getting too there's two layers without getting too much into the weeds I'm going to get in much into the weeds I'm going to get in the weeds guys I'm sorry so there's the weeds guys I'm sorry so there's there's a couple layers of the there's a couple layers of the mitochondria or membranes there's the mitochondria or membranes there's the outer in the inner membrane and the outer in the inner membrane and the mitochondria is able to keep these mitochondria is able to keep these different concentration levels from the different concentration levels from the inside membrane to the outside membrane inside membrane to the outside membrane and everything in nature follows this and everything in nature follows this concentration gradient things want to go concentration gradient things want to go from high to low concentration high to from high to low concentration high to low pressures that's why you you know low pressures that's why you you know things like wind you know moving from things like wind you know moving from high to low pressure um when high to low pressure um when you again sorry bringing you down all you again sorry bringing you down all this crazy process but anyway the this crazy process but anyway the mitochondria can keep the the high mitochondria can keep the the high different concentrations on different
different concentrations on different parts of the membrane and that allows parts of the membrane and that allows the mitochondria to prod produce energy the mitochondria to prod produce energy because when it opens up a door on that because when it opens up a door on that membrane stuff goes funneling through membrane stuff goes funneling through from the outer to the inner membrane and from the outer to the inner membrane and that process there allows the that process there allows the mitochondria to produce energy it's like mitochondria to produce energy it's like a a wind turbine or like one of those a a wind turbine or like one of those what are the things in the water why am what are the things in the water why am I blanking on it that produce energy by I blanking on it that produce energy by moving like a turbine you know you see moving like a turbine you know you see them at like dams dams have this them at like dams dams have this underneath the dams that's why there's a underneath the dams that's why there's a dam it's higher pressure to low pressure dam it's higher pressure to low pressure yeah like I'm not a physics guy wind uh yeah like I'm not a physics guy wind uh uh but essentially I mean that's now uh but essentially I mean that's now it's killing me I don't know all the it's killing me I don't know all the physics people please comment in here physics people please comment in here and explain it but essentially like it's and explain it but essentially like it's this same process happening in the this same process happening in the mitochondria high to low pressure it's mitochondria high to low pressure it's like this production of energy and like this production of energy and energy is the production of heat and so energy is the production of heat and so when cold there's this protein called an when cold there's this protein called an uncoupling protein it's able to kind of uncoupling protein it's able to kind of open up that membrane and just allow open up that membrane and just allow these concentrating gradients or these concentrating gradients or concentration gradients to do their concentration gradients to do their thing and generate heat and raise body thing and generate heat and raise body temperature so if you have more temperature so if you have more mitochondria you have a better capacity mitochondria you have a better capacity to increase body temperature and brown to increase body temperature and brown adapost tissu is involved with adapost tissu is involved with regulating body temperature now then regulating body temperature now then everyone's like oh well if you can everyone's like oh well if you can increase Brown adapost tissue you're increase Brown adapost tissue you're increasing energy production you're increasing energy production you're increasing metabolic rate therefore increasing metabolic rate therefore you're going to lose weight and you you're going to lose weight and you don't have to exercise anymore uh and don't have to exercise anymore uh and and that's where this area of debate and that's where this area of debate comes in because there's this comes in because there's this study with a group of people who they study with a group of people who they term them winter swimmers they go and term them winter swimmers they go and swim in the water in Denmark that is swim in the water in Denmark that is freezing cold and then they were freezing cold and then they were assessing so this population that does assessing so this population that does this habitually versus a group that does this habitually versus a group that does not do winter swimming and looking at not do winter swimming and looking at what does cold exposure and sauna do to
what does cold exposure and sauna do to you know energy expenditure Brown atopos you know energy expenditure Brown atopos tissue and they looked at other tissue and they looked at other metabolic metrics that uh we won't spend metabolic metrics that uh we won't spend time talking about because it's not time talking about because it's not essentially as relevant here but they essentially as relevant here but they did find that the winter swimmers had an did find that the winter swimmers had an increase in brown adapost tissue increase in brown adapost tissue activation and increase in metabolic or activation and increase in metabolic or energy expenditure energy expenditure relative to the controls but the problem relative to the controls but the problem is they're swimming in the winter now is they're swimming in the winter now this is so exercise is a great way to this is so exercise is a great way to increase Brown adapost tissue activation increase Brown adapost tissue activation increase energy expenditure so and also increase energy expenditure so and also SAA does this too there's research SAA does this too there's research showing just SAA alone increases Brown showing just SAA alone increases Brown adapost tissue and now you've got three adapost tissue and now you've got three different things that we know increase different things that we know increase Brown adapost tissue and you're studying Brown adapost tissue and you're studying a population and then ALS sudden every a population and then ALS sudden every and and that's not what the researchers and and that's not what the researchers were telling us in this paper they were were telling us in this paper they were saying using sauna and cold water in saying using sauna and cold water in Winter swimmers improves Brown adapost Winter swimmers improves Brown adapost tissue that's what they found but then tissue that's what they found but then everyone's like cold water it was the everyone's like cold water it was the Cold Water it was only the cold water Cold Water it was only the cold water nothing nothing matters with the sa nothing nothing matters with the sa nothing matters with the exercise cold nothing matters with the exercise cold water's going to help you lose weight water's going to help you lose weight it's like they're just trying to figure it's like they're just trying to figure out how they could prove this point now out how they could prove this point now it seems as though cuz cold water is Big it seems as though cuz cold water is Big right now they're like you know what right now they're like you know what let's just take that like you would say let's just take that like you would say cherry pick the data yeah well and even cherry pick the data yeah well and even if that was if that was true whether or not that has an impact true whether or not that has an impact on total daily energy expenditure to the on total daily energy expenditure to the point where it's going to do anything point where it's going to do anything for weight loss that is totally not for weight loss that is totally not evident as adults and especially as we evident as adults and especially as we age we start to lose Brown adapost age we start to lose Brown adapost tissue a child is really well able to tissue a child is really well able to Thermo regulate they have a lot of brown Thermo regulate they have a lot of brown adapost tissue but as we age that adapost tissue but as we age that declines and it makes up such a small declines and it makes up such a small portion of atopos tissue and contributes portion of atopos tissue and contributes to such a small level of our total daily to such a small level of our total daily energy expenditure that even if you had energy expenditure that even if you had this increase you likely wouldn't change
this increase you likely wouldn't change weight loss it would not move the needle weight loss it would not move the needle there's a paper showing that increase in there's a paper showing that increase in brown adapost tissue in uh individuals brown adapost tissue in uh individuals that were mid to late 30s only had a 20 that were mid to late 30s only had a 20 calorie per day influence on energy calorie per day influence on energy expenditure that's doing nothing this expenditure that's doing nothing this paper here though they found like a paper here though they found like a range of like 500 to 1,000 calories per range of like 500 to 1,000 calories per day that's incredible but again they're day that's incredible but again they're exercising they're getting in the S exercising they're getting in the S they're getting in the cold like it's they're getting in the cold like it's stop telling me it's the cold Gary and stop telling me it's the cold Gary and like I don't know what's what's actually like I don't know what's what's actually really funny about this topic is so in really funny about this topic is so in one of his videos he says something like one of his videos he says something like this is the best weight loss tool we this is the best weight loss tool we have and he even says like and and have and he even says like and and what's interesting for the women what's interesting for the women listening is it's like G that's so listening is it's like G that's so sexist like you're saying that like sexist like you're saying that like women care about weight loss like I women care about weight loss like I don't know this guy's crazy but anyway don't know this guy's crazy but anyway so he says that this is the number one so he says that this is the number one weight loss tool here there's actually weight loss tool here there's actually research to suggest well two interesting research to suggest well two interesting things one cold increases appetite so things one cold increases appetite so you if you look at people who do cold you if you look at people who do cold water immersion or are in colder water immersion or are in colder climates they're increasing energy climates they're increasing energy intake and it's pretty subconscious like intake and it's pretty subconscious like they just feel hungry they're taking in they just feel hungry they're taking in more energy this has been studied cold more energy this has been studied cold induces an increase in energy intake so induces an increase in energy intake so sorry Gary you might actually be gaining sorry Gary you might actually be gaining weight oh in cold water in addition to weight oh in cold water in addition to that there's papers comparing people that there's papers comparing people that exercise in cold water versus that exercise in cold water versus people that exercise in body people that exercise in body temperatured water they can have them do temperatured water they can have them do you know you've seen these like pools you know you've seen these like pools people could swim there's different ways people could swim there's different ways to test like underwater exercise showing to test like underwater exercise showing that cold water exercise reduced energy that cold water exercise reduced energy expenditure while you're going through expenditure while you're going through this exercise protocol so there was a this exercise protocol so there was a reduction in energy expenditure so if reduction in energy expenditure so if you're telling me that cold water you're telling me that cold water immersion increases energy expenditure immersion increases energy expenditure is going to lose fat like no it is not is going to lose fat like no it is not that is just not a tool okay maybe we'll that is just not a tool okay maybe we'll see more papers come out and I feel like
see more papers come out and I feel like it would do the opposite your body's it would do the opposite your body's cold like I need more fat store like Hy cold like I need more fat store like Hy yeah yeah yeah I'm to increase fat yeah yeah yeah I'm to increase fat myself warm well I mean and I should myself warm well I mean and I should point this out there is a cool area of point this out there is a cool area of research on Brown adapost tissue and the research on Brown adapost tissue and the role it plays in metabolic Health it role it plays in metabolic Health it seems to be that people who have more seems to be that people who have more larger quantities of brown adapost larger quantities of brown adapost tissue are more metabolically healthy tissue are more metabolically healthy and you see that with people that are and you see that with people that are active throughout their life they don't active throughout their life they don't lose as much Brown adapost tissue that's lose as much Brown adapost tissue that's a pretty cool correlation there so I'm a pretty cool correlation there so I'm not saying Brown adapost tissue does not saying Brown adapost tissue does nothing for your health it absolutely nothing for your health it absolutely does but it's just like don't call this does but it's just like don't call this a weight loss tool because of brown a weight loss tool because of brown atopos tissue this is like classic Gary atopos tissue this is like classic Gary Brea and other people on the internet Brea and other people on the internet that you hear just talk about like that you hear just talk about like mitochondrial uncoupling and mitochondrial uncoupling and inflammation and all these big words inflammation and all these big words that are like that are like whoa this guy this guy knows his stuff whoa this guy this guy knows his stuff this guy knows his stuff this is stupid um so another question I have I was listening to the hubman lab and was listening to the hubman lab and they're talking about um the effects it they're talking about um the effects it has on the immune system like some has on the immune system like some people out I think it's either Denmark people out I think it's either Denmark or like Norway where they leave their or like Norway where they leave their kids outside of like coffee shops to kids outside of like coffee shops to build up that immune system that's build up that immune system that's definitely Denmark Denmark they love the definitely Denmark Denmark they love the cold stuff but like my kids get sick cold stuff but like my kids get sick every other week and like should I be every other week and like should I be incorporating my kids being outside in incorporating my kids being outside in the cold more or like have you seen any the cold more or like have you seen any research can't leave your kids outside research can't leave your kids outside I'll be watching them neighbors call I'll be watching them neighbors call cops like no no no you don't understand cops like no no no you don't understand this is science they do in Denmark who's this is science they do in Denmark who's my new hippie neighbor um no so that um my new hippie neighbor um no so that um that is Denmark and I saw that uh so that is Denmark and I saw that uh so that the person who was on Andrew that the person who was on Andrew huberman's lab uh Dr s ber she is the huberman's lab uh Dr s ber she is the one who brought that up she's the one one who brought that up she's the one who did this winter swimming study that who did this winter swimming study that was her study and so she came on to talk was her study and so she came on to talk about it and you hear her talk about it about it and you hear her talk about it like again like there's just the topic
like again like there's just the topic of the podcast is cold exposure so of the podcast is cold exposure so that's what Andrew huberman is probing that's what Andrew huberman is probing on MH and so then a lot of people are on MH and so then a lot of people are listening to it thinking it's only the listening to it thinking it's only the cold water immersion that's having these cold water immersion that's having these effects but if you listen to her talk effects but if you listen to her talk about it she's explaining they looked at about it she's explaining they looked at sauna they looked at exercise and sauna they looked at exercise and and like going back to the study they and like going back to the study they address a lot of different differences address a lot of different differences in the control versus the intervention in the control versus the intervention group one being there was a group one being there was a significantly larger amount of adapost significantly larger amount of adapost tissue in the control participants white tissue in the control participants white adapost tissue and if you have an adapost tissue and if you have an increase in white adapost tissue that increase in white adapost tissue that can impact the detection of brown can impact the detection of brown adapost tissue so when they look at adapost tissue so when they look at Brown adapost tissue in this study they Brown adapost tissue in this study they looked at heat generation on the surface looked at heat generation on the surface of the skin up near the chest that of the skin up near the chest that happens to be where we keep most of our happens to be where we keep most of our Brown adapost tissue and they can see if Brown adapost tissue and they can see if it's activated based on heat production it's activated based on heat production there if you have more adapost tissue there if you have more adapost tissue your temperature is going to be if you your temperature is going to be if you have more white adapost tissue that have more white adapost tissue that temperature is going to drop um you temperature is going to drop um you could still have just as much Brown could still have just as much Brown adapost tissue activation but it's adapost tissue activation but it's harder to tell with the temperature on harder to tell with the temperature on the surface of the skin in addition to the surface of the skin in addition to that you're looking at a swimming that you're looking at a swimming population that has increased Thermo population that has increased Thermo regulation from the muscle generation of regulation from the muscle generation of heat from the muscle itself so if you're heat from the muscle itself so if you're just looking at temperature how can you just looking at temperature how can you tell me it's brown adapost tissue it tell me it's brown adapost tissue it could also be muscle generated heat too could also be muscle generated heat too and again that's just kind of poking and again that's just kind of poking holes in this and she addresses that she holes in this and she addresses that she admits this stuff now to to come back to admits this stuff now to to come back to the inflammation thing um an immune the inflammation thing um an immune function now the um leaving your kids function now the um leaving your kids outside no I'd say you can bring them in outside no I'd say you can bring them in okay good there is the this inconsistent okay good there is the this inconsistent area of research so one the acute area of research so one the acute effects of cold are a little bit effects of cold are a little bit different than Theon than the chronic different than Theon than the chronic impacts of cold so chronic being impacts of cold so chronic being long-term acute being just one bout of long-term acute being just one bout of cold one bout of cold water reduces cold one bout of cold water reduces certain inflammatory markers that's also
certain inflammatory markers that's also another area that's not consistent you another area that's not consistent you see some papers show it does some it see some papers show it does some it doesn't but more often than not people doesn't but more often than not people suggest there's a reduction in suggest there's a reduction in inflammation if there's a reduction in inflammation if there's a reduction in these cyto kindes then there's going to these cyto kindes then there's going to be a reduction in immune cell be a reduction in immune cell Recruitment and activation and then Recruitment and activation and then you're actually decreasing your immune you're actually decreasing your immune system activation that's an acute effect system activation that's an acute effect and so if you're you know looking to and so if you're you know looking to increase immune function you definitely increase immune function you definitely don't want to hop in the cold or if don't want to hop in the cold or if you're like feeling sick you know um a you're like feeling sick you know um a colder environment there's actually colder environment there's actually research on like cold dry research on like cold dry environments resulting in an increased environments resulting in an increased susceptibility to viral and bacterial susceptibility to viral and bacterial infections versus like warm humid infections versus like warm humid climates uh but the interesting part of climates uh but the interesting part of the research comes when we talk about the research comes when we talk about chronic cold water immersion there are chronic cold water immersion there are Trends to an increase in in immune Trends to an increase in in immune function with an increase in cold function with an increase in cold exposure and I think Andrew huberman exposure and I think Andrew huberman does a good job explaining the research does a good job explaining the research but doesn't do a good job in explaining but doesn't do a good job in explaining what a trend is so when he talks about what a trend is so when he talks about immune function in chronic cold water immune function in chronic cold water immersion you'll notice him say a trend immersion you'll notice him say a trend of an increase and then he says that is of an increase and then he says that is not significant now the way he says it not significant now the way he says it people think when I say a trend and people think when I say a trend and increase what are you taking what what increase what are you taking what what do you take that as meaning it's do you take that as meaning it's trending upward yeah there's an increase trending upward yeah there's an increase right you're taking that as an increase right you're taking that as an increase right statistically though there is no right statistically though there is no difference when you hear someone say a difference when you hear someone say a trend it means we found no significance trend it means we found no significance here but there was a difference in terms here but there was a difference in terms of just the raw numbers there but there of just the raw numbers there but there was no statistical significance so was no statistical significance so therefore they cannot actually say cold therefore they cannot actually say cold water improved immune function they can water improved immune function they can say there was a trend toward an increase say there was a trend toward an increase in immune function we have to do more
in immune function we have to do more research to see if there's any positive research to see if there's any positive factor there uh but and so that's just a factor there uh but and so that's just a little pointer there when you hear little pointer there when you hear people say Trends that's kind of this people say Trends that's kind of this key word of and I do this like when I key word of and I do this like when I was talking about some of the research I was talking about some of the research I was doing in my pH D like I If I ever was doing in my pH D like I If I ever said there was an increase uh but it said there was an increase uh but it wasn't significant you know you'd get wasn't significant you know you'd get called out like whoa whoa whoa then called out like whoa whoa whoa then there wasn't an increase you could say there wasn't an increase you could say there was a trend but it wasn't there was a trend but it wasn't significant so you cannot say there was significant so you cannot say there was an increase so listen for those key an increase so listen for those key words when you're hearing people words when you're hearing people interpret data this isn't me saying interpret data this isn't me saying Andrew huberman has some you know Andrew huberman has some you know initiative to try to misw things initiative to try to misw things intentionally which maybe he does maybe intentionally which maybe he does maybe he's trying to make people think things he's trying to make people think things about cold that aren't necessarily true about cold that aren't necessarily true but I don't think so I think it's just but I don't think so I think it's just the way that people who are not familiar the way that people who are not familiar with conducting and interpreting with conducting and interpreting research and how statistical analyses research and how statistical analyses work uh if you don't have that level of work uh if you don't have that level of familiarity you're not going to know familiarity you're not going to know what he's saying there uh but that's what he's saying there uh but that's what a trend is and so I don't know I what a trend is and so I don't know I mean maybe there's this impact of mean maybe there's this impact of chronic we'll see as it plays out but chronic we'll see as it plays out but right now you it doesn't seem to be that right now you it doesn't seem to be that there's this clear increase in immune there's this clear increase in immune function that thing in Denmark she was function that thing in Denmark she was saying that that was just like saying that that was just like historically done you know people just historically done you know people just that's like one of those Traditions that that's like one of those Traditions that just happens cuz people are like maybe just happens cuz people are like maybe they just want peace and quiet Cofe or they just want peace and quiet Cofe or something garlic on your nose sinus something garlic on your nose sinus infections put onions in your infections put onions in your socks you scare vampires it's just these socks you scare vampires it's just these things that get into Traditions I'm not things that get into Traditions I'm not saying it doesn't happen it's just it's saying it doesn't happen it's just it's not we don't have that answer so not we don't have that answer so basically I got from this podcast is basically I got from this podcast is like if you're trying to gain muscle like if you're trying to gain muscle stay away from this but if you're trying stay away from this but if you're trying to improve to improve mood this would be a good um good thing mood this would be a good um good thing to do I I would agree that's that's to do I I would agree that's that's really the main points I grab from yeah really the main points I grab from yeah I mean you you did say you can still I mean you you did say you can still gain but it's very it's sign you said
gain but it's very it's sign you said significantly less significantly less than not doing cold water yeah so like than not doing cold water yeah so like the ability to go through that protein the ability to go through that protein synthesis and grow muscles was synthesis and grow muscles was significantly a 10 Ed which means significantly a 10 Ed which means delayed and then decreased in cold water delayed and then decreased in cold water versus not cold water yeah really that's versus not cold water yeah really that's really what what it comes down to I really what what it comes down to I don't do it anyway that's what your goal don't do it anyway that's what your goal you should try it I mean it it's you should try it I mean it it's actually really cool um I've tried it I actually really cool um I've tried it I just I don't enjy you got to get past just I don't enjy you got to get past that I I don't do it because I like to that I I don't do it because I like to focus on strength and and hypertrophy focus on strength and and hypertrophy mainly hypertrophy uh but there was a mainly hypertrophy uh but there was a period of time like on and off where I period of time like on and off where I would do it and I I would do it and I I I had an easier time doing it in the I had an easier time doing it in the shower because I could I took shower shower because I could I took shower every day I could always incorporate it every day I could always incorporate it into yeah it's more accessible but what into yeah it's more accessible but what was interesting is when you get past was interesting is when you get past that shock Point um that's always kind that shock Point um that's always kind of cool you know I had something I was of cool you know I had something I was thinking about a little bit ago um you thinking about a little bit ago um you ever been outside in the Heat and you ever been outside in the Heat and you take a ice cold rag and put it on your take a ice cold rag and put it on your neck and it the water on your neck and neck and it the water on your neck and it drips down your spine I get that same it drips down your spine I get that same take your breath away take your breath away feeling is there something to say that feeling is there something to say that instead of just whole body immersion instead of just whole body immersion could you just focus on the neck and could you just focus on the neck and spine I don't know this just a thought spine I don't know this just a thought ahead so that um gasping reflex is ahead so that um gasping reflex is because of that those peripheral nerves because of that those peripheral nerves that sense temperature that communicate that sense temperature that communicate it to this area in your hypothalamus it to this area in your hypothalamus that's job is we're going to regulate that's job is we're going to regulate our core body temperature and so if you our core body temperature and so if you feel something cold it's similar to feel something cold it's similar to feeling something hot like you get that feeling something hot like you get that reflex that you know you could have the reflex that you know you could have the cold and well you actually you don't get cold and well you actually you don't get that reflex unless it's like up at the that reflex unless it's like up at the diaphragm or above you wouldn't have diaphragm or above you wouldn't have that with the toes You' pull your toe
that with the toes You' pull your toe away but the Gasping reflex is is not away but the Gasping reflex is is not happening there but you that's what happening there but you that's what you're experiencing now to answer the you're experiencing now to answer the question of like could you just put it question of like could you just put it on your back in that cold water uh on your back in that cold water uh shower protocol study they did both shower protocol study they did both chest and upper back those were the only chest and upper back those were the only areas so like that would just be your areas so like that would just be your focus is making sure it's on your upper focus is making sure it's on your upper body I wouldn't say just doing the back body I wouldn't say just doing the back um you're going to get more benefit off um you're going to get more benefit off chest and back and so if people are like chest and back and so if people are like trying to come up with a protocol um you trying to come up with a protocol um you don't have to get an ice bath you know don't have to get an ice bath you know you don't need ice you could do this in you don't need ice you could do this in the shower uh it seems to be that 3 the shower uh it seems to be that 3 minutes on the front 3 minutes on the minutes on the front 3 minutes on the back have it as cold as the shower can back have it as cold as the shower can get cuz that's right around that 50° uh get cuz that's right around that 50° uh you'll work your way into it you don't you'll work your way into it you don't have to start at that point just start have to start at that point just start until you feel the breath get taken away until you feel the breath get taken away and then try to get to that point past and then try to get to that point past that shock process where you're calming that shock process where you're calming yourself down because then you'll just yourself down because then you'll just be able to stay in there a l long longer be able to stay in there a l long longer people will hop out early on because of people will hop out early on because of that shock process but you will get past that shock process but you will get past that you will get past that the first that you will get past that the first time you do it your body's going to calm time you do it your body's going to calm itself down you can't just stay in this itself down you can't just stay in this level of shock um your body's not going level of shock um your body's not going to do that and then um if you're wanting to do that and then um if you're wanting to move past the the shower into a cold to move past the the shower into a cold tub to drop the temperature you could tub to drop the temperature you could toss some ice in there you can even wait toss some ice in there you can even wait for it to like heat up a little bit so for it to like heat up a little bit so it's not like right at that freezing it's not like right at that freezing cold level and just start with a few cold level and just start with a few minutes I wouldn't go any longer than 10 minutes I wouldn't go any longer than 10 minutes here I mean you it you're not minutes here I mean you it you're not like a lot of of these papers use 10 to like a lot of of these papers use 10 to 15 minutes but in the really cold 15 minutes but in the really cold temperatures they actually have them temperatures they actually have them doing it in multiple bouts so hopping in doing it in multiple bouts so hopping in for you know two minutes coming out for you know two minutes coming out hopping back in for two minutes coming hopping back in for two minutes coming out and not staying in there for that out and not staying in there for that long period of time again you don't want long period of time again you don't want to induce hypothermia uh but play around
to induce hypothermia uh but play around with it and then you just want to with it and then you just want to progress to induce that stress response progress to induce that stress response and and pay attention to how your body's and and pay attention to how your body's adapting but again if you're not if adapting but again if you're not if you're training for hypertrophy strength you're training for hypertrophy strength then use the sa because again the sauna then use the sa because again the sauna has after your workout I mean there's has after your workout I mean there's really no benefit that cold has that SAA really no benefit that cold has that SAA doesn't and SAA has even more benefits doesn't and SAA has even more benefits there you know and saa's just not as there you know and saa's just not as like sexy online you know people aren't like sexy online you know people aren't taking pictures of them sweating with taking pictures of them sweating with random other people in the sauna and random other people in the sauna and posting it online it's just people want posting it online it's just people want to c one except for Jo R to c one except for Jo R yeah well any other uh thoughts here yeah well any other uh thoughts here that was awesome yeah I learned so much that was awesome yeah I learned so much today yeah yeah that was thanks Dr Luke today yeah yeah that was thanks Dr Luke you're welcome guys I'm gonna miss you you're welcome guys I'm gonna miss you guys miss you too thanks for listening guys miss you too thanks for listening everybody should we go hop in cold tub everybody should we go hop in cold tub no let's get Joe in a cold tub again for no let's get Joe in a cold tub again for tuning in to the kickback science tuning in to the kickback science podcast we love talking science with all podcast we love talking science with all of you and if you feel the same you can of you and if you feel the same you can support us by subscribing hitting that support us by subscribing hitting that like button and giving us a follow on like button and giving us a follow on our social media Pages don't forget you our social media Pages don't forget you can submit questions through our website can submit questions through our website and in the comments section of all our and in the comments section of all our social media have a good one everyone social media have a good one everyone he