Welcome to the Happier Life Project, the Welcome to the Happier Life Project, the Welcome to the Happier Life Project, the official podcast from the award-winning official podcast from the award-winning official podcast from the award-winning mental health and wellness app, My mental health and wellness app, My mental health and wellness app, My Possible Self, hosted by broadcaster and Possible Self, hosted by broadcaster and Possible Self, hosted by broadcaster and journalist Gabby Sanderson. journalist Gabby Sanderson. journalist Gabby Sanderson. Hi, how you doing? I hope you're well. Hi, how you doing? I hope you're well. Hi, how you doing? I hope you're well. Welcome to today's bonus episode of the Welcome to today's bonus episode of the Welcome to today's bonus episode of the Happier Life Project. Cold water Happier Life Project. Cold water Happier Life Project. Cold water swimming, sea dipping, ice baths. It swimming, sea dipping, ice baths. It swimming, sea dipping, ice baths. It feels like everybody's talking about the feels like everybody's talking about the feels like everybody's talking about the
cold shock response, and the potential cold shock response, and the potential mental health benefits associated with mental health benefits associated with mental health benefits associated with this trending practice. this trending practice. this trending practice. We also talk about safety, breath work, We also talk about safety, breath work, We also talk about safety, breath work, and why research is still needed before and why research is still needed before and why research is still needed before we can take every viral claim at face we can take every viral claim at face we can take every viral claim at face value. value. value. So whether you're a seasoned sea dipper So whether you're a seasoned sea dipper So whether you're a seasoned sea dipper or just cold curious, get ready to find or just cold curious, get ready to find or just cold curious, get ready to find out the truth about cold water therapy. out the truth about cold water therapy. out the truth about cold water therapy. What's hype? What's helpful? and what
below the surface of the skin you've got below the surface of the skin you've got lots of cold receptors. We're a tropical lots of cold receptors. We're a tropical lots of cold receptors. We're a tropical animal. We want to be naked in air at animal. We want to be naked in air at animal. We want to be naked in air at about 28° C. So going into cold water is about 28° C. So going into cold water is about 28° C. So going into cold water is particularly stressful and those particularly stressful and those particularly stressful and those receptors get stimulated particularly in receptors get stimulated particularly in receptors get stimulated particularly in the first seconds and send a lot of the first seconds and send a lot of the first seconds and send a lot of information centrally and that results information centrally and that results information centrally and that results in what we called back in the 1990s the in what we called back in the 1990s the in what we called back in the 1990s the cold shock response and it starts with a cold shock response and it starts with a cold shock response and it starts with a gasp of about 2 L which I'm sure you
love it and they're almost addicted to love it and they're almost addicted to doing it. It's like a real adrenaline doing it. It's like a real adrenaline doing it. It's like a real adrenaline rush, I suppose. And then there's people rush, I suppose. And then there's people rush, I suppose. And then there's people like me that are not so fond of being like me that are not so fond of being like me that are not so fond of being freezing and putting that shock to the freezing and putting that shock to the freezing and putting that shock to the system just doesn't really seem very system just doesn't really seem very system just doesn't really seem very appealing. I'll stick to my yoga, you appealing. I'll stick to my yoga, you appealing. I'll stick to my yoga, you know. know. know. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a few things >> Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a few things >> Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a few things you said there which are absolutely you said there which are absolutely you said there which are absolutely true. Most, as I say, we're a tropical
changed their life. Mostly it's mental changed their life. Mostly it's mental health rather than physical health health rather than physical health health rather than physical health improvements. uh in fact I think it's improvements. uh in fact I think it's improvements. uh in fact I think it's only the sort of over 65s who start only the sort of over 65s who start only the sort of over 65s who start start to talk about it making them feel start to talk about it making them feel start to talk about it making them feel a bit fitter. The science on the kill a bit fitter. The science on the kill a bit fitter. The science on the kill side of the equation is very much better side of the equation is very much better side of the equation is very much better and more definitive than that on the and more definitive than that on the and more definitive than that on the cure side. Quite a lot of the stuff on cure side. Quite a lot of the stuff on cure side. Quite a lot of the stuff on the cure side of the equation is the cure side of the equation is the cure side of the equation is anecdotal. You know people asking people
>> it's that sudden fall in skin >> it's that sudden fall in skin temperature that drives all those neural temperature that drives all those neural temperature that drives all those neural and hormonal changes that may well be and hormonal changes that may well be and hormonal changes that may well be the benefit of what's good about it. We the benefit of what's good about it. We the benefit of what's good about it. We know the cold shock response peaks know the cold shock response peaks know the cold shock response peaks somewhere between 10 and 15° C and we somewhere between 10 and 15° C and we somewhere between 10 and 15° C and we know that it only lasts a couple of know that it only lasts a couple of know that it only lasts a couple of minutes. So actually going into much minutes. So actually going into much minutes. So actually going into much colder water or going in for much colder water or going in for much colder water or going in for much longer, I don't think is of any benefit longer, I don't think is of any benefit longer, I don't think is of any benefit whatsoever. You're just moving more and
that's where if you exercise, you can that's where if you exercise, you can probably maintain body temperature. Once probably maintain body temperature. Once probably maintain body temperature. Once you drop down into the below 20 into the you drop down into the below 20 into the you drop down into the below 20 into the teens, that's when you get I mean sea teens, that's when you get I mean sea teens, that's when you get I mean sea temperature in the middle of summer in temperature in the middle of summer in temperature in the middle of summer in around the British Isles might get up to around the British Isles might get up to around the British Isles might get up to 17 or 18. And you know, it's the old 17 or 18. And you know, it's the old 17 or 18. And you know, it's the old saying, it's okay once you're in. And saying, it's okay once you're in. And saying, it's okay once you're in. And what that actually means is it's okay what that actually means is it's okay what that actually means is it's okay once the cold shock response has gone once the cold shock response has gone once the cold shock response has gone away.
then uncontrollable hyperventilation. then uncontrollable hyperventilation. As you go in more times, you begin to As you go in more times, you begin to As you go in more times, you begin to get more control of your breathing or get more control of your breathing or get more control of your breathing or you get control of it sooner. Now when you get control of it sooner. Now when you get control of it sooner. Now when you go as I say most of the evidence in you go as I say most of the evidence in you go as I say most of the evidence in favor of that this approach whether it favor of that this approach whether it favor of that this approach whether it be the Wimhof method or ice dipping or be the Wimhof method or ice dipping or be the Wimhof method or ice dipping or cold water is anecdotal. The scientific cold water is anecdotal. The scientific cold water is anecdotal. The scientific data are at best mixed generally of poor data are at best mixed generally of poor data are at best mixed generally of poor quality because they haven't managed to quality because they haven't managed to quality because they haven't managed to have a proper control or there's been a
I would say the jury is still out. I would say the jury is still out. However, going back to my what I was However, going back to my what I was However, going back to my what I was talking about in terms of talking people talking about in terms of talking people talking about in terms of talking people who do it to some extent, if somebody who do it to some extent, if somebody who do it to some extent, if somebody thinks it's changed their life and is thinks it's changed their life and is thinks it's changed their life and is doing them good and improved their doing them good and improved their doing them good and improved their mental health and it has improved their mental health and it has improved their mental health and it has improved their mental health, then so what? You know, mental health, then so what? You know, mental health, then so what? You know, okay, that's fine. All I'm saying is two okay, that's fine. All I'm saying is two okay, that's fine. All I'm saying is two things. Firstly, as a scientist, I want things. Firstly, as a scientist, I want things. Firstly, as a scientist, I want to know the method and the mechanism by
response. That's the fight orflight response. That's the fight orflight response. That's adrenaline, nor response. That's adrenaline, nor response. That's adrenaline, nor adrenaline, cortisol, all these adrenaline, cortisol, all these adrenaline, cortisol, all these different hormones being released. different hormones being released. different hormones being released. You'll then have the I haven't had a You'll then have the I haven't had a You'll then have the I haven't had a cold for a year since I've been doing cold for a year since I've been doing cold for a year since I've been doing open water swimming. And open water swimming. And open water swimming. And >> I've not heard that one. >> I've not heard that one. >> I've not heard that one. >> Okay. Yeah. So, we've done studies where >> Okay. Yeah. So, we've done studies where >> Okay. Yeah. So, we've done studies where the trouble is you can look at the the the trouble is you can look at the the the trouble is you can look at the the cells of the immune system and you can
paper you read, Gabby, in this area has paper you read, Gabby, in this area has the caveat at the bottom which says more the caveat at the bottom which says more the caveat at the bottom which says more studies done that need to have larger studies done that need to have larger studies done that need to have larger numbers, more reasonable sample sizes, numbers, more reasonable sample sizes, numbers, more reasonable sample sizes, better controls, better controls, better controls, >> um, and less chance of bias. M well and >> um, and less chance of bias. M well and >> um, and less chance of bias. M well and also because you've mentioned a couple also because you've mentioned a couple also because you've mentioned a couple of times about this where the sort of of times about this where the sort of of times about this where the sort of temperature waters some in warmer some temperature waters some in warmer some temperature waters some in warmer some in colder and it seems quite similar and in colder and it seems quite similar and in colder and it seems quite similar and I would say well we're made up of a lot
know, are putting themselves at know, are putting themselves at unnecessary risk. Um, so really what we unnecessary risk. Um, so really what we unnecessary risk. Um, so really what we want to ask is, you know, if you took up want to ask is, you know, if you took up want to ask is, you know, if you took up yoga or if you took up soccer or if you yoga or if you took up soccer or if you yoga or if you took up soccer or if you took up hill walking or beach walking, took up hill walking or beach walking, took up hill walking or beach walking, would that have the same impact? And would that have the same impact? And would that have the same impact? And those just studies just haven't been those just studies just haven't been those just studies just haven't been done. done. done. >> Well, as we kind of wrap things up, I >> Well, as we kind of wrap things up, I >> Well, as we kind of wrap things up, I think like the takeaway for me is that think like the takeaway for me is that think like the takeaway for me is that what you're saying is when we're looking
Society, the National Water Safety Society, the National Water Safety Forum, all of which have websites that Forum, all of which have websites that Forum, all of which have websites that you can go on and get information about you can go on and get information about you can go on and get information about how to do this, how to do it safely. If how to do this, how to do it safely. If how to do this, how to do it safely. If you go on to the University of you go on to the University of you go on to the University of Portsmouth website, you'll find the Portsmouth website, you'll find the Portsmouth website, you'll find the papers that we've published on exactly papers that we've published on exactly papers that we've published on exactly the same thing, you know, minimizing the the same thing, you know, minimizing the the same thing, you know, minimizing the risk in doing this. and you'll be kept risk in doing this. and you'll be kept risk in doing this. and you'll be kept updated with the latest research. So, um updated with the latest research. So, um updated with the latest research. So, um there are quite a lot of webs there's
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