00:00in of go through some of these interview in of go through some of these interview questions that I'm asking a few of the questions that I'm asking a few of the questions that I'm asking a few of the top sauna top sauna top sauna manufacturers um so Bob thanks for being manufacturers um so Bob thanks for being manufacturers um so Bob thanks for being with me with me with me today thanks Alex and um I guess we'll today thanks Alex and um I guess we'll today thanks Alex and um I guess we'll roll right into it here um so maybe you roll right into it here um so maybe you roll right into it here um so maybe you can just start with uh how long you've can just start with uh how long you've can just start with uh how long you've been in the business and maybe quickly been in the business and maybe quickly been in the business and maybe quickly how you got how you got how you got started uh we got started or I did as a started uh we got started or I did as a started uh we got started or I did as a distributor um I used to own an organic distributor um I used to own an organic distributor um I used to own an organic little health food store and got into little health food store and got into little health food store and got into Natural Health when I was a young guy Natural Health when I was a young guy Natural Health when I was a young guy and my doctor was a naturopath who and my doctor was a naturopath who and my doctor was a naturopath who believed in all kinds of you know believed in all kinds of you know believed in all kinds of you know Natural Health uh kinds of Natural Health uh kinds of Natural Health uh kinds of modalities including uh saus and this modalities including uh saus and this modalities including uh saus and this was way back so uh I got into doing a was way back so uh I got into doing a was way back so uh I got into doing a cleanse every so often including sauna cleanse every so often including sauna cleanse every so often including sauna detox
01:00detox detox um and then years um and then years um and then years later uh I sold the business and was later uh I sold the business and was later uh I sold the business and was looking to do something else and I looking to do something else and I looking to do something else and I thought well you know that that little thought well you know that that little thought well you know that that little converted closet sauna was really converted closet sauna was really converted closet sauna was really tremendous for well-being and health and tremendous for well-being and health and tremendous for well-being and health and cleansing so I looked around look at for cleansing so I looked around look at for cleansing so I looked around look at for any any any manufacturer who had a small uh home manufacturer who had a small uh home manufacturer who had a small uh home sauna I thought that would be a great sauna I thought that would be a great sauna I thought that would be a great product everybody could use it you know product everybody could use it you know product everybody could use it you know the polluted world we all live in the polluted world we all live in the polluted world we all live in um so I looked around and I happened to um so I looked around and I happened to um so I looked around and I happened to see a little ad somewhere where somebody see a little ad somewhere where somebody see a little ad somewhere where somebody said come over and try this new kind of said come over and try this new kind of said come over and try this new kind of sauna infared sauna just came into the sauna infared sauna just came into the sauna infared sauna just came into the country this was in the mid 80s I went country this was in the mid 80s I went country this was in the mid 80s I went and tried it sweat like crazy felt and tried it sweat like crazy felt and tried it sweat like crazy felt better afterwards I said I can sell better afterwards I said I can sell better afterwards I said I can sell these things and I became uh a these things and I became uh a these things and I became uh a distributor and uh then we bumped into a distributor and uh then we bumped into a distributor and uh then we bumped into a few chemically sensitive f folks who
02:00few chemically sensitive f folks who few chemically sensitive f folks who uh who didn't do so well with them or uh who didn't do so well with them or uh who didn't do so well with them or they were concerned with the materials they were concerned with the materials they were concerned with the materials so this was all kind of new to so this was all kind of new to so this was all kind of new to me um dealing with folks who were me um dealing with folks who were me um dealing with folks who were sensitive to even natural things if they sensitive to even natural things if they sensitive to even natural things if they were strong or aromatic or had volatile were strong or aromatic or had volatile were strong or aromatic or had volatile components Etc so the ejections components Etc so the ejections components Etc so the ejections basically were Cedar uh for people who basically were Cedar uh for people who basically were Cedar uh for people who were chemically sensitive they can react were chemically sensitive they can react were chemically sensitive they can react back to it because of the volatile oils back to it because of the volatile oils back to it because of the volatile oils the what are called the what are called the what are called tpin and they're present uh pretty tpin and they're present uh pretty tpin and they're present uh pretty abundantly in Cedar especially but also abundantly in Cedar especially but also abundantly in Cedar especially but also in most softwoods and softwoods are what in most softwoods and softwoods are what in most softwoods and softwoods are what saunas are typically made of and back saunas are typically made of and back saunas are typically made of and back when I got in the business there there when I got in the business there there when I got in the business there there was nothing but softw for sa so um that was nothing but softw for sa so um that was nothing but softw for sa so um that was uh an issue that basically was a was uh an issue that basically was a was uh an issue that basically was a hurdle our first hurdle
03:00hurdle our first hurdle hurdle our first hurdle essentially in trying to think of ways essentially in trying to think of ways essentially in trying to think of ways to improve upon the saas so the other uh to improve upon the saas so the other uh to improve upon the saas so the other uh objections were that the sonas were objections were that the sonas were objections were that the sonas were glued together um um plywood uh was glued together um um plywood uh was glued together um um plywood uh was concealed um you know varnishes as I concealed um you know varnishes as I concealed um you know varnishes as I best recall were used etc etc the best recall were used etc etc the best recall were used etc etc the windows were PL a form of windows were PL a form of windows were PL a form of plastic so some of our chemically plastic so some of our chemically plastic so some of our chemically sensitive potential customers said we sensitive potential customers said we sensitive potential customers said we we'd love to detox sounds great the Ed we'd love to detox sounds great the Ed we'd love to detox sounds great the Ed sounds great but you know we really need sounds great but you know we really need sounds great but you know we really need to detox in a clean environment it to detox in a clean environment it to detox in a clean environment it doesn't make any sense to to go into an doesn't make any sense to to go into an doesn't make any sense to to go into an environment that isn't really pristine environment that isn't really pristine environment that isn't really pristine if you're going to heat it and you know if you're going to heat it and you know if you're going to heat it and you know potentially out gas anything that's potentially out gas anything that's potentially out gas anything that's within the materials of the Sona within the materials of the Sona within the materials of the Sona itself and we we need to detox you so we itself and we we need to detox you so we itself and we we need to detox you so we designed some is around that we tested
04:00designed some is around that we tested designed some is around that we tested wood species with sensitive folks and wood species with sensitive folks and wood species with sensitive folks and pioneered the use of white popper back pioneered the use of white popper back pioneered the use of white popper back in the 80s so we've been doing this for in the 80s so we've been doing this for in the 80s so we've been doing this for about 20 let's see 87 about 27 years about 20 let's see 87 about 27 years about 20 let's see 87 about 27 years selling infrared saunas in about 26 selling infrared saunas in about 26 selling infrared saunas in about 26 years since we built our first years since we built our first years since we built our first one we figured out how to build without one we figured out how to build without one we figured out how to build without adhesives and still have the unit uh be adhesives and still have the unit uh be adhesives and still have the unit uh be durable and strong uh structural durable and strong uh structural durable and strong uh structural structural Integrity um if you don't structural Integrity um if you don't structural Integrity um if you don't screw everything together with screw everything together with screw everything together with non-corrosive screws counter sync screws non-corrosive screws counter sync screws non-corrosive screws counter sync screws use very thick wood the option and what use very thick wood the option and what use very thick wood the option and what most companies do is to use thinner wood most companies do is to use thinner wood most companies do is to use thinner wood and glue the heck out of it you and glue the heck out of it you and glue the heck out of it you basically have to coat the framing in basically have to coat the framing in basically have to coat the framing in very strong very strong very strong adhesives and then pin nail or use adhesives and then pin nail or use adhesives and then pin nail or use hydraulic presses to press the thin wood hydraulic presses to press the thin wood hydraulic presses to press the thin wood onto a glue coated frame and it really onto a glue coated frame and it really onto a glue coated frame and it really becomes a
05:00becomes a becomes a a glue adhesive based construction a glue adhesive based construction a glue adhesive based construction method like most modern Cabinetry is method like most modern Cabinetry is method like most modern Cabinetry is made the same way the what you see the made the same way the what you see the made the same way the what you see the the wood uh finish is like a veneer it's the wood uh finish is like a veneer it's the wood uh finish is like a veneer it's glued on glued on glued on by not doing that we created a cleaner by not doing that we created a cleaner by not doing that we created a cleaner environment uh but uh we also uh kind of environment uh but uh we also uh kind of environment uh but uh we also uh kind of inadvertently end up with a much more inadvertently end up with a much more inadvertently end up with a much more durable product because we're using durable product because we're using durable product because we're using non-corrosive steel screws and thick non-corrosive steel screws and thick non-corrosive steel screws and thick wood so uh that's what got us going we wood so uh that's what got us going we wood so uh that's what got us going we replaced the uh the plastic windows with replaced the uh the plastic windows with replaced the uh the plastic windows with tempered glass uh uh frame the wood with tempered glass uh uh frame the wood with tempered glass uh uh frame the wood with the same wood that we Market it as so the same wood that we Market it as so the same wood that we Market it as so when we say we use white popular we when we say we use white popular we when we say we use white popular we don't hide Pine in it there's several don't hide Pine in it there's several don't hide Pine in it there's several companies over the years have promoted companies over the years have promoted companies over the years have promoted sonas as sonas as sonas as hypoallergenic by promoting and hypoallergenic by promoting and hypoallergenic by promoting and describing the saunas by the visible describing the saunas by the visible describing the saunas by the visible wood and
06:00wood and wood and not telling you uh whether there's not telling you uh whether there's not telling you uh whether there's concealed plywood or what the uh the concealed plywood or what the uh the concealed plywood or what the uh the framing material might be a totally uh framing material might be a totally uh framing material might be a totally uh different species and often it could be different species and often it could be different species and often it could be an offensive species because typically an offensive species because typically an offensive species because typically Pine or another resonance cheaper wood Pine or another resonance cheaper wood Pine or another resonance cheaper wood is used for framing although the sauna is used for framing although the sauna is used for framing although the sauna may be marketed as whatever the visible may be marketed as whatever the visible may be marketed as whatever the visible wood is so that's an issue too so anyway wood is so that's an issue too so anyway wood is so that's an issue too so anyway we we designed uh sauna is another we we designed uh sauna is another we we designed uh sauna is another Factor we wanted to incorporate into a a Factor we wanted to incorporate into a a Factor we wanted to incorporate into a a really clean environment was and a fault really clean environment was and a fault really clean environment was and a fault we found with the uh the original sonas we found with the uh the original sonas we found with the uh the original sonas we sold was that the air change wasn't we sold was that the air change wasn't we sold was that the air change wasn't very good the uh the typical infrared very good the uh the typical infrared very good the uh the typical infrared sauna may have a little Inlet somewhere sauna may have a little Inlet somewhere sauna may have a little Inlet somewhere and maybe a little sliding hole in the and maybe a little sliding hole in the and maybe a little sliding hole in the ceiling to let air Escape but it's not a ceiling to let air Escape but it's not a ceiling to let air Escape but it's not a real strong rate of change and what we real strong rate of change and what we real strong rate of change and what we found was after five to 10 found was after five to 10 found was after five to 10 minutes uh the typical infrared sauna minutes uh the typical infrared sauna minutes uh the typical infrared sauna starts to feel a little bit stuck
07:00starts to feel a little bit stuck starts to feel a little bit stuck so we tried to remedy that so we so we tried to remedy that so we so we tried to remedy that so we actually use each wall heater as a actually use each wall heater as a actually use each wall heater as a ventilator so we Channel fresh ventilator so we Channel fresh ventilator so we Channel fresh air all around you each wall heater is air all around you each wall heater is air all around you each wall heater is vented with fresh air coming in just vented with fresh air coming in just vented with fresh air coming in just below it and then that air as it rises below it and then that air as it rises below it and then that air as it rises along the heater is channeled into the along the heater is channeled into the along the heater is channeled into the into the sauna air space and then it's into the sauna air space and then it's into the sauna air space and then it's hot it's rising right along the heating hot it's rising right along the heating hot it's rising right along the heating element it tends to displace the stale element it tends to displace the stale element it tends to displace the stale air it's coming in hot and air it's coming in hot and air it's coming in hot and rising and we then carbon filter the rising and we then carbon filter the rising and we then carbon filter the outgoing air because you don't want that outgoing air because you don't want that outgoing air because you don't want that stale air especially if you're really stale air especially if you're really stale air especially if you're really toxic and you're going through the toxic and you're going through the toxic and you're going through the initial stages of detox you want to uh initial stages of detox you want to uh initial stages of detox you want to uh clean that outgoing air so that was an clean that outgoing air so that was an clean that outgoing air so that was an important consideration for us uh to important consideration for us uh to important consideration for us uh to make sure that there's a nice passive make sure that there's a nice passive make sure that there's a nice passive constant air change in the unit uh so constant air change in the unit uh so constant air change in the unit uh so that was our basic uh goal was to make a that was our basic uh goal was to make a that was our basic uh goal was to make a clean chemic safe super effective
08:00clean chemic safe super effective clean chemic safe super effective sauna and basically an ideal environment sauna and basically an ideal environment sauna and basically an ideal environment for for for detoxification kind of a longwinded detoxification kind of a longwinded detoxification kind of a longwinded answer I guess yeah yeah and you kind of answer I guess yeah yeah and you kind of answer I guess yeah yeah and you kind of you kind of went right into uh one of my you kind of went right into uh one of my you kind of went right into uh one of my questions here about wood types and that questions here about wood types and that questions here about wood types and that type of thing um so maybe we could just type of thing um so maybe we could just type of thing um so maybe we could just backtrack a little bit um but uh is backtrack a little bit um but uh is backtrack a little bit um but uh is there so when it comes to you know we there so when it comes to you know we there so when it comes to you know we try to educate our customers about try to educate our customers about try to educate our customers about basically what you had said you know basically what you had said you know basically what you had said you know trying to really get more into getting trying to really get more into getting trying to really get more into getting knowledge about about what goes into the knowledge about about what goes into the knowledge about about what goes into the construction um is and you mentioned a construction um is and you mentioned a construction um is and you mentioned a few things is is there because most of few things is is there because most of few things is is there because most of these companies are using thinner dinner these companies are using thinner dinner these companies are using thinner dinner woods and and using T together it do you woods and and using T together it do you woods and and using T together it do you think it's possible to almost estimate think it's possible to almost estimate think it's possible to almost estimate if that if a company is doing that based if that if a company is doing that based if that if a company is doing that based off of the weight of a sauna you know off of the weight of a sauna you know off of the weight of a sauna you know how heavy it is well it's an indicator how heavy it is well it's an indicator how heavy it is well it's an indicator um you know if you if you uh if you take um you know if you if you uh if you take um you know if you if you uh if you take a look at our say one person sauna we a look at our say one person sauna we a look at our say one person sauna we have a heavy crate I think we ship it at
09:00have a heavy crate I think we ship it at have a heavy crate I think we ship it at 560 lbs out of the created probably 560 lbs out of the created probably 560 lbs out of the created probably about about about 420 you know the average uh typical uh 420 you know the average uh typical uh 420 you know the average uh typical uh personal size infrared sa is you know personal size infrared sa is you know personal size infrared sa is you know maybe 200 lb at most uh so if anything maybe 200 lb at most uh so if anything maybe 200 lb at most uh so if anything it's an indicator at least with our it's an indicator at least with our it's an indicator at least with our units that we're doing something a units that we're doing something a units that we're doing something a little bit differently um and and that's little bit differently um and and that's little bit differently um and and that's you the main thing with adhesives is you the main thing with adhesives is you the main thing with adhesives is that it's that it's that it's fast uh you can coat uh fast uh you can coat uh fast uh you can coat uh cheaper wood uh with an adhesive and and cheaper wood uh with an adhesive and and cheaper wood uh with an adhesive and and get a Pneumatic pin nail gun and Bing get a Pneumatic pin nail gun and Bing get a Pneumatic pin nail gun and Bing take thin wood and just shoot it on take thin wood and just shoot it on take thin wood and just shoot it on there or press it on there so it's fast there or press it on there so it's fast there or press it on there so it's fast um and that's why companies do it and um and that's why companies do it and um and that's why companies do it and the the thinner wood is obviously the the thinner wood is obviously the the thinner wood is obviously cheaper than the thicker wood so uh it's cheaper than the thicker wood so uh it's cheaper than the thicker wood so uh it's an economic thing right so I guess an economic thing right so I guess an economic thing right so I guess that's probably the only way other than that's probably the only way other than that's probably the only way other than Breaking open a sauna um being able to Breaking open a sauna um being able to Breaking open a sauna um being able to really figure out what a company is really figure out what a company is really figure out what a company is doing is you know you can often
10:00doing is you know you can often doing is you know you can often tell with some company websites where tell with some company websites where tell with some company websites where they want to show you a layout and they they want to show you a layout and they they want to show you a layout and they maybe take a photo from above with the maybe take a photo from above with the maybe take a photo from above with the roof off you can then see right along roof off you can then see right along roof off you can then see right along that perimeter Edge the tops of the that perimeter Edge the tops of the that perimeter Edge the tops of the walls and often times you can tell by walls and often times you can tell by walls and often times you can tell by the discoloration there may be a thin the discoloration there may be a thin the discoloration there may be a thin darker Edge along that perimeter uh of darker Edge along that perimeter uh of darker Edge along that perimeter uh of the uh wall Toops the uh wall Toops the uh wall Toops that's your paneling it's that's your paneling it's that's your paneling it's usually virtually paper thin it's a very usually virtually paper thin it's a very usually virtually paper thin it's a very thin usually darker line around a wider thin usually darker line around a wider thin usually darker line around a wider uh core and that wher core is going to uh core and that wher core is going to uh core and that wher core is going to be Pine usually right and then there's be Pine usually right and then there's be Pine usually right and then there's your Cedar your Hemlock whatever it is your Cedar your Hemlock whatever it is your Cedar your Hemlock whatever it is in a in a Chinese sauna you can see that in a in a Chinese sauna you can see that in a in a Chinese sauna you can see that little edge of very thin wood so that's little edge of very thin wood so that's little edge of very thin wood so that's that's a giveaway yeah it's a great that's a giveaway yeah it's a great that's a giveaway yeah it's a great great ins another giveaway is sometimes great ins another giveaway is sometimes great ins another giveaway is sometimes companies will show you a photo sequence
11:00companies will show you a photo sequence companies will show you a photo sequence of uh the assembly process or they may of uh the assembly process or they may of uh the assembly process or they may have a video of have a video of have a video of assembly and then you can assembly and then you can assembly and then you can see uh side edges sometimes you can see see uh side edges sometimes you can see see uh side edges sometimes you can see the profile and you can look for the the profile and you can look for the the profile and you can look for the same thing you can see the white core same thing you can see the white core same thing you can see the white core and very thin darker edges and you can and very thin darker edges and you can and very thin darker edges and you can really get a a good eyes view of uh of really get a a good eyes view of uh of really get a a good eyes view of uh of how just how thin that paneling is and how just how thin that paneling is and how just how thin that paneling is and just just just how uh massive the gluing must be you how uh massive the gluing must be you how uh massive the gluing must be you know know there's no signs of Fasteners know know there's no signs of Fasteners know know there's no signs of Fasteners it's all glue together know you with our it's all glue together know you with our it's all glue together know you with our units uh you know conversely you you can units uh you know conversely you you can units uh you know conversely you you can look at our door um and if you look at look at our door um and if you look at look at our door um and if you look at the profile of our door you see one the profile of our door you see one the profile of our door you see one thick slab of solid wood and then at the thick slab of solid wood and then at the thick slab of solid wood and then at the top and the bottom you see the heads of top and the bottom you see the heads of top and the bottom you see the heads of some counter sunk screws going into some counter sunk screws going into some counter sunk screws going into other uh solid boards if you look at other uh solid boards if you look at other uh solid boards if you look at most sauna doors on the edge you'll see most sauna doors on the edge you'll see most sauna doors on the edge you'll see a very thin trim strip and what that is
12:00a very thin trim strip and what that is a very thin trim strip and what that is doing is covering right the edges of the doing is covering right the edges of the doing is covering right the edges of the thin paneling that's been glued onto the thin paneling that's been glued onto the thin paneling that's been glued onto the core uh so they want to hide that so core uh so they want to hide that so core uh so they want to hide that so they then glue and Tin nail on that trim they then glue and Tin nail on that trim they then glue and Tin nail on that trim strip to cover all that so it's strip to cover all that so it's strip to cover all that so it's basically layers of basically layers of basically layers of thin uh glued together pieces of wood thin uh glued together pieces of wood thin uh glued together pieces of wood and so it's ad that's why I say when I and so it's ad that's why I say when I and so it's ad that's why I say when I say it's adhesive based Construction say it's adhesive based Construction say it's adhesive based Construction it literally is and some companies kind it literally is and some companies kind it literally is and some companies kind of deny that they're saying oh we just of deny that they're saying oh we just of deny that they're saying oh we just use a a little bit or a minimal use a a little bit or a minimal use a a little bit or a minimal amount I don't think anybody really does amount I don't think anybody really does amount I don't think anybody really does either you do it the way we do it or you either you do it the way we do it or you either you do it the way we do it or you glue the heck out of it I don't think glue the heck out of it I don't think glue the heck out of it I don't think there's any Middle Ground um if you just there's any Middle Ground um if you just there's any Middle Ground um if you just used a drop or two of you know baby glue used a drop or two of you know baby glue used a drop or two of you know baby glue or you know some companies tend to or you know some companies tend to or you know some companies tend to downplay this but um you you wouldn't downplay this but um you you wouldn't downplay this but um you you wouldn't have a durable product you you've got have a durable product you you've got have a durable product you you've got tremendous Heat strp in AA because of
13:00tremendous Heat strp in AA because of tremendous Heat strp in AA because of the rapid change in temperature and the rapid change in temperature and the rapid change in temperature and you're using thin wood and you're you're using thin wood and you're you're using thin wood and you're changing that temperature dramatically changing that temperature dramatically changing that temperature dramatically up and then down again it's going to up and then down again it's going to up and then down again it's going to really affect the wood unless it's really affect the wood unless it's really affect the wood unless it's thoroughly glued down with very strong thoroughly glued down with very strong thoroughly glued down with very strong adhesives or it's them right wow great adhesives or it's them right wow great adhesives or it's them right wow great insights um that's that's amazing um so insights um that's that's amazing um so insights um that's that's amazing um so you can actually kind of figure that out you can actually kind of figure that out you can actually kind of figure that out because I was I was wondering about that because I was I was wondering about that because I was I was wondering about that for a while and how how to got my for a while and how how to got my for a while and how how to got my customers on maybe uh you know that is a customers on maybe uh you know that is a customers on maybe uh you know that is a concern for them it's not just emfs now concern for them it's not just emfs now concern for them it's not just emfs now that everybody's worried about it's also that everybody's worried about it's also that everybody's worried about it's also more the off gassing um but at the same more the off gassing um but at the same more the off gassing um but at the same time then how do you tell so there's at time then how do you tell so there's at time then how do you tell so there's at least a few tips so that's really good least a few tips so that's really good least a few tips so that's really good information um yeah the average person information um yeah the average person information um yeah the average person doesn't know and you certainly can't doesn't know and you certainly can't doesn't know and you certainly can't tell from looking at a photograph of a tell from looking at a photograph of a tell from looking at a photograph of a finished product but there are those finished product but there are those finished product but there are those little Telltale right uh signs that you little Telltale right uh signs that you little Telltale right uh signs that you can look for all right so let's talk can look for all right so let's talk can look for all right so let's talk about uh let's talk about heaters um the about uh let's talk about heaters um the about uh let's talk about heaters um the you know probably the biggest other you know probably the biggest other you know probably the biggest other point of confusion with consumers um and
14:00point of confusion with consumers um and point of confusion with consumers um and why they really like our website is you why they really like our website is you why they really like our website is you know we go we we try to lay it out how know we go we we try to lay it out how know we go we we try to lay it out how it is about the whole ceramic carbon it is about the whole ceramic carbon it is about the whole ceramic carbon thing and really educate the thing and really educate the thing and really educate the consumer um I appreciate where you guys consumer um I appreciate where you guys consumer um I appreciate where you guys are coming from on that too by the way are coming from on that too by the way are coming from on that too by the way that's and and most customers are that's and and most customers are that's and and most customers are totally confused by that they all these totally confused by that they all these totally confused by that they all these companies are trying to say everybody's companies are trying to say everybody's companies are trying to say everybody's you know our our panels are the best our you know our our panels are the best our you know our our panels are the best our emitters are the best you know don't emitters are the best you know don't emitters are the best you know don't listen to these other guys so um is uh listen to these other guys so um is uh listen to these other guys so um is uh so the question is this um what do you so the question is this um what do you so the question is this um what do you think is the kind of the most definitive think is the kind of the most definitive think is the kind of the most definitive kind of foolproof way to uh to assess um kind of foolproof way to uh to assess um kind of foolproof way to uh to assess um you know which which type of em met a you know which which type of em met a you know which which type of em met a carbon a ceramic or a combo or whatever carbon a ceramic or a combo or whatever carbon a ceramic or a combo or whatever has more fluency you know is there a way has more fluency you know is there a way has more fluency you know is there a way that a customer can actually get to the that a customer can actually get to the that a customer can actually get to the bottom of it if you will well yeah bottom of it if you will well yeah bottom of it if you will well yeah there's some laws of physics that there's some laws of physics that there's some laws of physics that pertain to to that question I should pertain to to that question I should pertain to to that question I should mention I've been writing a book for mention I've been writing a book for mention I've been writing a book for years as a consumer guide book and uh I
15:00years as a consumer guide book and uh I years as a consumer guide book and uh I was just about finished with it seven or was just about finished with it seven or was just about finished with it seven or eight years ago when I had some Optical eight years ago when I had some Optical eight years ago when I had some Optical issues I had eye surgery and whatnot and issues I had eye surgery and whatnot and issues I had eye surgery and whatnot and I couldn't work on the computer for a I couldn't work on the computer for a I couldn't work on the computer for a long duration so it got put off but at long duration so it got put off but at long duration so it got put off but at some point coming up pretty soon I hope some point coming up pretty soon I hope some point coming up pretty soon I hope to publish a uh a really definitive book to publish a uh a really definitive book to publish a uh a really definitive book on as a consumer guide book on on as a consumer guide book on on as a consumer guide book on understanding all these questions and understanding all these questions and understanding all these questions and the greater uh physics and the the greater uh physics and the the greater uh physics and the biophysics of infrared and how it biophysics of infrared and how it biophysics of infrared and how it affects body and all that kind of stuff affects body and all that kind of stuff affects body and all that kind of stuff so uh I can let you guys know when so uh I can let you guys know when so uh I can let you guys know when that's uh available but uh to to get to that's uh available but uh to to get to that's uh available but uh to to get to your question you know there's several your question you know there's several your question you know there's several issues with this and issues with this and issues with this and probably several are significant I um probably several are significant I um probably several are significant I um probably the key one in any infrared SAA probably the key one in any infrared SAA probably the key one in any infrared SAA what what's going to really matter is what what's going to really matter is what what's going to really matter is how much infrared is the body going to how much infrared is the body going to how much infrared is the body going to receive receive receive um that's kind of like a bottom line uh
16:00um that's kind of like a bottom line uh um that's kind of like a bottom line uh issue all saunas have hot air and issue all saunas have hot air and issue all saunas have hot air and infrared energy there's a a a convection infrared energy there's a a a convection infrared energy there's a a a convection radiation ratio even in a traditional radiation ratio even in a traditional radiation ratio even in a traditional sauna that's why the rocks are there sauna that's why the rocks are there sauna that's why the rocks are there besides that you can moisten them to besides that you can moisten them to besides that you can moisten them to create steam they're also create steam they're also create steam they're also uh basically uh basically uh basically hardened minerals you know they they hardened minerals you know they they hardened minerals you know they they their ous Stones which was once volcanic their ous Stones which was once volcanic their ous Stones which was once volcanic it's uh it's uh it's uh molten heat absorbent minerals that molten heat absorbent minerals that molten heat absorbent minerals that hardened and coales formed rocks they hardened and coales formed rocks they hardened and coales formed rocks they come from Finland it's one of the come from Finland it's one of the come from Finland it's one of the greatest natural sources of zirconium on greatest natural sources of zirconium on greatest natural sources of zirconium on the planet and the original patented the planet and the original patented the planet and the original patented heater in Japan for the first part for heater in Japan for the first part for heater in Japan for the first part for its own is was based on zirconium the uh its own is was based on zirconium the uh its own is was based on zirconium the uh zirconium oxide um and some other zirconium oxide um and some other zirconium oxide um and some other mineral ox ID they patented a formula to
17:00mineral ox ID they patented a formula to mineral ox ID they patented a formula to make the first uh F heaters ceramic you make the first uh F heaters ceramic you make the first uh F heaters ceramic you know just clay and heat retentive know just clay and heat retentive know just clay and heat retentive minerals the rocks are kind of like the minerals the rocks are kind of like the minerals the rocks are kind of like the same thing only natural if you don't mix same thing only natural if you don't mix same thing only natural if you don't mix clay and and the minerals they were just clay and and the minerals they were just clay and and the minerals they were just molten minerals and they hardened so molten minerals and they hardened so molten minerals and they hardened so that's that's what's used that's that's what's used that's that's what's used historically in saunas to both allow historically in saunas to both allow historically in saunas to both allow humidification and to humidification and to humidification and to radiate uh naturally infrared energy and radiate uh naturally infrared energy and radiate uh naturally infrared energy and it does it it's not focalized like an it does it it's not focalized like an it does it it's not focalized like an infrared heater is not as close to you infrared heater is not as close to you infrared heater is not as close to you as an infrared heater so its effects as an infrared heater so its effects as an infrared heater so its effects aren't is uh substantial but it's still aren't is uh substantial but it's still aren't is uh substantial but it's still quite a bit of infrared energy in a quite a bit of infrared energy in a quite a bit of infrared energy in a traditional sauna and the other factor traditional sauna and the other factor traditional sauna and the other factor is that uh with the interior surfaces of is that uh with the interior surfaces of is that uh with the interior surfaces of any sauna once they get warm they're any sauna once they get warm they're any sauna once they get warm they're going to become an infrared radiator going to become an infrared radiator going to become an infrared radiator essentially wood wood is fairly emissive essentially wood wood is fairly emissive essentially wood wood is fairly emissive meaning the efficiency with which a
18:00meaning the efficiency with which a meaning the efficiency with which a material can absorb and radiate thermal material can absorb and radiate thermal material can absorb and radiate thermal energy far infrared so in a traditional energy far infrared so in a traditional energy far infrared so in a traditional sauna you've got rocks radiating a bunch sauna you've got rocks radiating a bunch sauna you've got rocks radiating a bunch of infrared kind of randomly all over of infrared kind of randomly all over of infrared kind of randomly all over the place and the walls are putting out the place and the walls are putting out the place and the walls are putting out some infrared energy as well it's not some infrared energy as well it's not some infrared energy as well it's not nearly as nearly as nearly as concentrated uh and focalized as in an concentrated uh and focalized as in an concentrated uh and focalized as in an infrared Sona so the air temperature has infrared Sona so the air temperature has infrared Sona so the air temperature has to be hotter in order to get you to to be hotter in order to get you to to be hotter in order to get you to sweat so there's a a sweat so there's a a sweat so there's a a ratio um ratio um ratio um low uh infrared higher low uh infrared higher low uh infrared higher temperature the same applies with an temperature the same applies with an temperature the same applies with an infrared sauna the more infrared you can infrared sauna the more infrared you can infrared sauna the more infrared you can get to the baer's body the lower the air get to the baer's body the lower the air get to the baer's body the lower the air temperature can be so it's that same temperature can be so it's that same temperature can be so it's that same ratio like a seesaw the ceramic ratio like a seesaw the ceramic ratio like a seesaw the ceramic heaters are stronger than the carbon heaters are stronger than the carbon heaters are stronger than the carbon heaters so that historically when they heaters so that historically when they heaters so that historically when they first made the first SP infared on is
19:00first made the first SP infared on is first made the first SP infared on is the the the temperature was temperature was temperature was typically uh 95 to maybe 115 as a typically uh 95 to maybe 115 as a typically uh 95 to maybe 115 as a starting level maybe up to maybe 130 140 starting level maybe up to maybe 130 140 starting level maybe up to maybe 130 140 somewhere in there it's kind of gone up somewhere in there it's kind of gone up somewhere in there it's kind of gone up a little bit I'd say 105 to a little bit I'd say 105 to a little bit I'd say 105 to 130s for ceramic heaters you're going to 130s for ceramic heaters you're going to 130s for ceramic heaters you're going to sweat well typically because you're sweat well typically because you're sweat well typically because you're getting a lot of infrared on your body getting a lot of infrared on your body getting a lot of infrared on your body the heaters are strong the heaters are strong the heaters are strong and they're strategically positioned so and they're strategically positioned so and they're strategically positioned so any heater that's near you you're going any heater that's near you you're going any heater that's near you you're going to get all the energy from that to get all the energy from that to get all the energy from that particular particular particular heater the thing with the carbon heaters heater the thing with the carbon heaters heater the thing with the carbon heaters is that the heaters are bigger but the is that the heaters are bigger but the is that the heaters are bigger but the same current is going into the Sun so same current is going into the Sun so same current is going into the Sun so the power the electrical current is the power the electrical current is the power the electrical current is spread out what that does is dilute the spread out what that does is dilute the spread out what that does is dilute the watt density in other words the power watt density in other words the power watt density in other words the power per area of the heater is is per area of the heater is is per area of the heater is is substantially reduced and substantially reduced and substantially reduced and the strength of the heater is diluted uh
20:00the strength of the heater is diluted uh the strength of the heater is diluted uh so you have weaker so you have weaker so you have weaker heaters you have to use those saunas heaters you have to use those saunas heaters you have to use those saunas hotter it's the same proportion so in my hotter it's the same proportion so in my hotter it's the same proportion so in my mind the ceramic is really the way these mind the ceramic is really the way these mind the ceramic is really the way these types of saunas uh should be built and types of saunas uh should be built and types of saunas uh should be built and it's it's their Essence basically it's it's it's their Essence basically it's it's it's their Essence basically it's it's the it's the it's the great um benefit of them that you sweat great um benefit of them that you sweat great um benefit of them that you sweat well at a very low temperature and once well at a very low temperature and once well at a very low temperature and once you weaken the infrared that much as the you weaken the infrared that much as the you weaken the infrared that much as the the carbon heaters do um you're back in the carbon heaters do um you're back in the carbon heaters do um you're back in the 140 15155 range you're kind of it's the 140 15155 range you're kind of it's the 140 15155 range you're kind of it's kind of an kind of an kind of an in-betweener um so that's one in-betweener um so that's one in-betweener um so that's one issue and you know the size is somewhat issue and you know the size is somewhat issue and you know the size is somewhat of a factor but still when you're of a factor but still when you're of a factor but still when you're leaning on a back wall and there's leaning on a back wall and there's leaning on a back wall and there's carbon heaters only what's right behind carbon heaters only what's right behind carbon heaters only what's right behind you is going to affect you is going the you is going to affect you is going the you is going to affect you is going the infrared moves straight so the whole infrared moves straight so the whole infrared moves straight so the whole back walk is could be covered with you
21:00back walk is could be covered with you back walk is could be covered with you know know know black carbon heaters but only what's black carbon heaters but only what's black carbon heaters but only what's right behind you is going to have any right behind you is going to have any right behind you is going to have any therapeutic impact with the ceramic therapeutic impact with the ceramic therapeutic impact with the ceramic heater it's going to be smaller but it's heater it's going to be smaller but it's heater it's going to be smaller but it's going to be rounded it's going to have a going to be rounded it's going to have a going to be rounded it's going to have a reflector in back of it and all of its reflector in back of it and all of its reflector in back of it and all of its energy is going to cover your whole back energy is going to cover your whole back energy is going to cover your whole back too so even though there's that size too so even though there's that size too so even though there's that size differential the impact upon your body differential the impact upon your body differential the impact upon your body is going to be basically the same and uh is going to be basically the same and uh is going to be basically the same and uh then the difference becomes how much then the difference becomes how much then the difference becomes how much infrared energy is that heater emitting infrared energy is that heater emitting infrared energy is that heater emitting versus the other one well you can versus the other one well you can versus the other one well you can calculate that and it it's calculate that and it it's calculate that and it it's substantial um you know there there's a substantial um you know there there's a substantial um you know there there's a there's a rule in physics that you know there's a rule in physics that you know there's a rule in physics that you know you can you can compare emissions you can you can compare emissions you can you can compare emissions quantitatively if you know the surface quantitatively if you know the surface quantitatively if you know the surface temperature of two different heaters and temperature of two different heaters and temperature of two different heaters and it's the difference to the fourth power it's the difference to the fourth power it's the difference to the fourth power so that's huge I mean if if if a ceramic so that's huge I mean if if if a ceramic so that's huge I mean if if if a ceramic heater is three times just throw it out
22:00heater is three times just throw it out heater is three times just throw it out there as a round number and it's fairly there as a round number and it's fairly there as a round number and it's fairly close to that hotter than a carbon close to that hotter than a carbon close to that hotter than a carbon heater it's three to the fourth power heater it's three to the fourth power heater it's three to the fourth power that's 81 times three times 3 * 3 * that's 81 times three times 3 * 3 * that's 81 times three times 3 * 3 * three there's 81 times three there's 81 times three there's 81 times more uh infate energy coming off of that more uh infate energy coming off of that more uh infate energy coming off of that ceramic heater so it's they're ceramic heater so it's they're ceramic heater so it's they're dramatically uh P more powerful so your dramatically uh P more powerful so your dramatically uh P more powerful so your body is going to get more more infrared body is going to get more more infrared body is going to get more more infrared energy that's the critical thing the energy that's the critical thing the energy that's the critical thing the other thing I don't like about um carbon other thing I don't like about um carbon other thing I don't like about um carbon is that it's not really carbon um I look is that it's not really carbon um I look is that it's not really carbon um I look at a patent for one company who at a patent for one company who at a patent for one company who downplays Ceramics and I looked at a downplays Ceramics and I looked at a downplays Ceramics and I looked at a patent for their heater and there was no patent for their heater and there was no patent for their heater and there was no carbon component to it it was basically carbon component to it it was basically carbon component to it it was basically some ceramic coating layered on a piece some ceramic coating layered on a piece some ceramic coating layered on a piece of plastic or something with some cloth of plastic or something with some cloth of plastic or something with some cloth over it um there are other uh newer over it um there are other uh newer over it um there are other uh newer carbon heater carbon heater carbon heater where there are thin a mix of thin
23:00where there are thin a mix of thin where there are thin a mix of thin ceramic and carbon fibers that are on ceramic and carbon fibers that are on ceramic and carbon fibers that are on some kind of a metallic foil that are some kind of a metallic foil that are some kind of a metallic foil that are imprinted into a layer of plastic and imprinted into a layer of plastic and imprinted into a layer of plastic and then they get the low emfs they they then they get the low emfs they they then they get the low emfs they they laminate heat seal a top layer with the laminate heat seal a top layer with the laminate heat seal a top layer with the current coming in different a different current coming in different a different current coming in different a different direction so you reduce the EMF that way direction so you reduce the EMF that way direction so you reduce the EMF that way but what it is is is plastic um plastic but what it is is is plastic um plastic but what it is is is plastic um plastic absorbs in fored so it doesn't matter absorbs in fored so it doesn't matter absorbs in fored so it doesn't matter whether the fibers within the plastic or whether the fibers within the plastic or whether the fibers within the plastic or ceramic or carbon or who knows what uh ceramic or carbon or who knows what uh ceramic or carbon or who knows what uh it could be anything virtually because it could be anything virtually because it could be anything virtually because the plastic is going to absorb and the plastic is going to absorb and the plastic is going to absorb and become the emitter but what companies become the emitter but what companies become the emitter but what companies who sell these kinds of heaters do and who sell these kinds of heaters do and who sell these kinds of heaters do and the carbon fiber type heaters too the carbon fiber type heaters too the carbon fiber type heaters too they'll then glue on some black they'll then glue on some black they'll then glue on some black synthetic cloth because they don't want synthetic cloth because they don't want synthetic cloth because they don't want to to to sell plastic heated sacks you know you sell plastic heated sacks you know you sell plastic heated sacks you know you taking photos of you know sheets of
24:00taking photos of you know sheets of taking photos of you know sheets of plastic and cavities in the wall would plastic and cavities in the wall would plastic and cavities in the wall would look awful so I assume that's why they look awful so I assume that's why they look awful so I assume that's why they do it they they take black cloth usually do it they they take black cloth usually do it they they take black cloth usually one company uses a gray cloth but uh you one company uses a gray cloth but uh you one company uses a gray cloth but uh you know most of them will know most of them will know most of them will adhere this synthetic cloth right onto adhere this synthetic cloth right onto adhere this synthetic cloth right onto the plastic I mean that's your heater the plastic I mean that's your heater the plastic I mean that's your heater you look at a ceramic heater it's Clay you look at a ceramic heater it's Clay you look at a ceramic heater it's Clay and minerals in our case it's baked onto and minerals in our case it's baked onto and minerals in our case it's baked onto stainless steel for durability with stainless steel for durability with stainless steel for durability with other other other Ceramics they're usually a solid ceramic Ceramics they're usually a solid ceramic Ceramics they're usually a solid ceramic uh it's it's a natural material you know uh it's it's a natural material you know uh it's it's a natural material you know with the carbon you're not carbon really with the carbon you're not carbon really with the carbon you're not carbon really has nothing to do with it uh you're has nothing to do with it uh you're has nothing to do with it uh you're talking about a synthetic heater plastic talking about a synthetic heater plastic talking about a synthetic heater plastic with synthetic cloth on it the cloth is with synthetic cloth on it the cloth is with synthetic cloth on it the cloth is going to become the radiator you know going to become the radiator you know going to become the radiator you know once you cover a light source if you once you cover a light source if you once you cover a light source if you will um it's going to either block or will um it's going to either block or will um it's going to either block or absorb that energy and may radiate it
25:00absorb that energy and may radiate it absorb that energy and may radiate it with with light it won't do it so much with with light it won't do it so much with with light it won't do it so much if it's a black cloth but with with a if it's a black cloth but with with a if it's a black cloth but with with a thermal Source like in fored you're thermal Source like in fored you're thermal Source like in fored you're going to warm the cloth and it becomes going to warm the cloth and it becomes going to warm the cloth and it becomes your your your radiator um you know just like plastic radiator um you know just like plastic radiator um you know just like plastic absorbed the original source of infrared absorbed the original source of infrared absorbed the original source of infrared within the the layers of within the the layers of within the the layers of plastic now the radiator becomes the plastic now the radiator becomes the plastic now the radiator becomes the what's probably polyester you know that what's probably polyester you know that what's probably polyester you know that has an emissivity somewhere in the 80s has an emissivity somewhere in the 80s has an emissivity somewhere in the 80s it's still fairly emissive it's still it's still fairly emissive it's still it's still fairly emissive it's still going to work but when you promote a s a going to work but when you promote a s a going to work but when you promote a s a heater as being super emissive in the heater as being super emissive in the heater as being super emissive in the 90s or whatever highly efficient and 90s or whatever highly efficient and 90s or whatever highly efficient and then you're covering it you know it's then you're covering it you know it's then you're covering it you know it's basically false information because the basically false information because the basically false information because the the surface cover becomes your emitter the surface cover becomes your emitter the surface cover becomes your emitter so anyway I I I don't like the synthetic so anyway I I I don't like the synthetic so anyway I I I don't like the synthetic nature of them you know plastic heaters nature of them you know plastic heaters nature of them you know plastic heaters gluon cloth synthetic cloth well gluon cloth synthetic cloth well gluon cloth synthetic cloth well novity and the fact that they're weak so
26:00novity and the fact that they're weak so novity and the fact that they're weak so to me there's no comparison I know the to me there's no comparison I know the to me there's no comparison I know the the the marketing is newer is better but in this marketing is newer is better but in this marketing is newer is better but in this case newer is not better this is cheap case newer is not better this is cheap case newer is not better this is cheap Chinese technology basically that does Chinese technology basically that does Chinese technology basically that does not work that well it's well hyped it's not work that well it's well hyped it's not work that well it's well hyped it's well marketed they probably sell a ton well marketed they probably sell a ton well marketed they probably sell a ton of sonas and it is promoted as of sonas and it is promoted as of sonas and it is promoted as state-of-the-art the newer stuff it is state-of-the-art the newer stuff it is state-of-the-art the newer stuff it is newer um you know i' had been told that newer um you know i' had been told that newer um you know i' had been told that is basically on old uh water bed uh is basically on old uh water bed uh is basically on old uh water bed uh heating technology where you get a heating technology where you get a heating technology where you get a current into sheets of plastic but current into sheets of plastic but current into sheets of plastic but uh I like ceramic a lot better mostly uh I like ceramic a lot better mostly uh I like ceramic a lot better mostly because it's much more effective and because it's much more effective and because it's much more effective and it's a more natural material okay it's a more natural material okay it's a more natural material okay excellent excellent information um and excellent excellent information um and excellent excellent information um and you do a couple interesting things as I you do a couple interesting things as I you do a couple interesting things as I noticed nobody else does uh it it and I noticed nobody else does uh it it and I noticed nobody else does uh it it and I think I understand it now a little bit think I understand it now a little bit think I understand it now a little bit more about some of the ways you lay out more about some of the ways you lay out more about some of the ways you lay out your s on it um so putting the rocks in
27:00your s on it um so putting the rocks in your s on it um so putting the rocks in there the traditional you know finish there the traditional you know finish there the traditional you know finish rocks with all their elements in it um rocks with all their elements in it um rocks with all their elements in it um correct me if I'm wrong but uh by correct me if I'm wrong but uh by correct me if I'm wrong but uh by putting the rocks in there combination putting the rocks in there combination putting the rocks in there combination of INF emitters and rocks um you can of INF emitters and rocks um you can of INF emitters and rocks um you can basically effectively heat up more of basically effectively heat up more of basically effectively heat up more of the radiant temperature inside the sauna the radiant temperature inside the sauna the radiant temperature inside the sauna with the rocks and if the temperature with the rocks and if the temperature with the rocks and if the temperature then inside the sauna is warmer then you then inside the sauna is warmer then you then inside the sauna is warmer then you can basically set your ceramic heaters can basically set your ceramic heaters can basically set your ceramic heaters they won't need to get as hot um right they won't need to get as hot um right they won't need to get as hot um right because they're not essentially the because they're not essentially the because they're not essentially the emitters are not what's then heating emitters are not what's then heating emitters are not what's then heating essentially the uh the cabin yeah to be clear we do build cabin yeah to be clear we do build traditional saunas we build all infrared traditional saunas we build all infrared traditional saunas we build all infrared saunas we have near infrared as an saunas we have near infrared as an saunas we have near infrared as an option and we have far infrared as an option and we have far infrared as an option and we have far infrared as an option in our traditional saunas so we option in our traditional saunas so we option in our traditional saunas so we kind of run the gamut um you know I kind of run the gamut um you know I kind of run the gamut um you know I personally like a combination Sona where personally like a combination Sona where personally like a combination Sona where you have the ability to toss some water
28:00you have the ability to toss some water you have the ability to toss some water on the rocks and get it steamy if you on the rocks and get it steamy if you on the rocks and get it steamy if you want you have a thermostat you know fur want you have a thermostat you know fur want you have a thermostat you know fur sauna uh marketing is somewhat based on sauna uh marketing is somewhat based on sauna uh marketing is somewhat based on distinguishing the infrared type of distinguishing the infrared type of distinguishing the infrared type of sauna from a traditional in kind of sauna from a traditional in kind of sauna from a traditional in kind of black and white uh Ways by you know the black and white uh Ways by you know the black and white uh Ways by you know the extremely hot versus the not hot at all extremely hot versus the not hot at all extremely hot versus the not hot at all kind of a thing and really it's kind of kind of a thing and really it's kind of kind of a thing and really it's kind of in between there somewhere is is the in between there somewhere is is the in between there somewhere is is the reality a lot of public sonas are run to reality a lot of public sonas are run to reality a lot of public sonas are run to too hot but in a home unit you know too hot but in a home unit you know too hot but in a home unit you know they're thermostatically controlled you they're thermostatically controlled you they're thermostatically controlled you can warm it up to whatever you think is can warm it up to whatever you think is can warm it up to whatever you think is comfortable for you and then you can go comfortable for you and then you can go comfortable for you and then you can go in and sit by the infrared and use it in and sit by the infrared and use it in and sit by the infrared and use it like an infrared sauna or but you still like an infrared sauna or but you still like an infrared sauna or but you still have the option to change humidity Etc have the option to change humidity Etc have the option to change humidity Etc so I basically like that kind of sauna so I basically like that kind of sauna so I basically like that kind of sauna they can still be just about as they can still be just about as they can still be just about as effective and uh you know maybe stay in effective and uh you know maybe stay in effective and uh you know maybe stay in a few minutes longer and sweat a little a few minutes longer and sweat a little a few minutes longer and sweat a little bit more and you probably equalize bit more and you probably equalize bit more and you probably equalize what goes on in an infared sauna um
29:00what goes on in an infared sauna um what goes on in an infared sauna um there's some pros and cons to both but there's some pros and cons to both but there's some pros and cons to both but uh yeah you're right in your observation uh yeah you're right in your observation uh yeah you're right in your observation you can just basically warm it up the you can just basically warm it up the you can just basically warm it up the the traditional heater is a very the traditional heater is a very the traditional heater is a very efficient airspace heater whereas efficient airspace heater whereas efficient airspace heater whereas Infrareds a a relatively inefficient Infrareds a a relatively inefficient Infrareds a a relatively inefficient airspace heater infared energy as you airspace heater infared energy as you airspace heater infared energy as you probably know doesn't heat the air at probably know doesn't heat the air at probably know doesn't heat the air at all it Heats you but the infrared SAA all it Heats you but the infrared SAA all it Heats you but the infrared SAA still has to warm up to be effective and still has to warm up to be effective and still has to warm up to be effective and it does that kind of in an incidental it does that kind of in an incidental it does that kind of in an incidental manner because the air around each manner because the air around each manner because the air around each heater has to gets hot because the heater has to gets hot because the heater has to gets hot because the heating element obviously has to get hot heating element obviously has to get hot heating element obviously has to get hot so you get these little pockets of air so you get these little pockets of air so you get these little pockets of air being heated and that summates to get being heated and that summates to get being heated and that summates to get your adequate warm up time so it's kind your adequate warm up time so it's kind your adequate warm up time so it's kind of a uh a less efficient way to do it so of a uh a less efficient way to do it so of a uh a less efficient way to do it so with a combo you just crank it up to with a combo you just crank it up to with a combo you just crank it up to whatever you want pretty quickly and whatever you want pretty quickly and whatever you want pretty quickly and then go in and use the infrared as you then go in and use the infrared as you then go in and use the infrared as you choose to so um do you think it's better choose to so um do you think it's better choose to so um do you think it's better to just in terms of detoxing that kind to just in terms of detoxing that kind
30:00to just in terms of detoxing that kind of thing you think it's better to set of thing you think it's better to set of thing you think it's better to set the sauna you know temperature really the sauna you know temperature really the sauna you know temperature really low and sitting there for longer or do low and sitting there for longer or do low and sitting there for longer or do you think you should just set it really you think you should just set it really you think you should just set it really really high going for a crazy sweat for really high going for a crazy sweat for really high going for a crazy sweat for you know for 10 minutes or or do 30 you know for 10 minutes or or do 30 you know for 10 minutes or or do 30 minutes at a really low minutes at a really low minutes at a really low temperature yeah I mean it's a good temperature yeah I mean it's a good temperature yeah I mean it's a good question and everybody's a little bit question and everybody's a little bit question and everybody's a little bit different you know uh uh some folks have different you know uh uh some folks have different you know uh uh some folks have to go through an acclamation process so to go through an acclamation process so to go through an acclamation process so uh know it depends if you're used to uh know it depends if you're used to uh know it depends if you're used to sauna Bay sauna Bay sauna Bay uh some folks who are really chemically uh some folks who are really chemically uh some folks who are really chemically overloaded tend to not sweat well they overloaded tend to not sweat well they overloaded tend to not sweat well they need to definitely start gradually they need to definitely start gradually they need to definitely start gradually they don't want you never want to detox too don't want you never want to detox too don't want you never want to detox too abruptly too fast um if you're not abruptly too fast um if you're not abruptly too fast um if you're not sweating well you want to acclimate most sweating well you want to acclimate most sweating well you want to acclimate most people acclimate in about three weeks of people acclimate in about three weeks of people acclimate in about three weeks of uh relatively routine regular heat uh relatively routine regular heat uh relatively routine regular heat stress you know just take a a brief stress you know just take a a brief stress you know just take a a brief sauna every day for or five or six times sauna every day for or five or six times sauna every day for or five or six times a week a week a week or four weeks and most people will then
31:00or four weeks and most people will then or four weeks and most people will then be pretty well acclimated and then they be pretty well acclimated and then they be pretty well acclimated and then they can kind of start pushing it a little can kind of start pushing it a little can kind of start pushing it a little bit and experiment I think everybody's a bit and experiment I think everybody's a bit and experiment I think everybody's a little bit differently different I think little bit differently different I think little bit differently different I think it's I've done it both ways you know I'm it's I've done it both ways you know I'm it's I've done it both ways you know I'm kind of the Sona Enthusiast and I've kind of the Sona Enthusiast and I've kind of the Sona Enthusiast and I've used them for personal health issues used them for personal health issues used them for personal health issues over the years and I've done it both over the years and I've done it both over the years and I've done it both ways you know where you go in to a ways you know where you go in to a ways you know where you go in to a really extremely hot sa where you can't really extremely hot sa where you can't really extremely hot sa where you can't stay in very long and then go out and stay in very long and then go out and stay in very long and then go out and cool down a little bit and then maybe go cool down a little bit and then maybe go cool down a little bit and then maybe go in if it's a the Dual tiered on it going in if it's a the Dual tiered on it going in if it's a the Dual tiered on it going at a little at a little at a little lower staying a little bit longer come lower staying a little bit longer come lower staying a little bit longer come out going in again you know you'll out going in again you know you'll out going in again you know you'll eventually uh get your core temperature eventually uh get your core temperature eventually uh get your core temperature up where you'll kick in a good heavy up where you'll kick in a good heavy up where you'll kick in a good heavy sweat I think with the far infared you sweat I think with the far infared you sweat I think with the far infared you want to kind of take advantage of the want to kind of take advantage of the want to kind of take advantage of the fact that it is really effective at fact that it is really effective at fact that it is really effective at lower temperatures and so keep it pretty lower temperatures and so keep it pretty lower temperatures and so keep it pretty mild you know with our units I like to mild you know with our units I like to mild you know with our units I like to see folks in them 11 to 125 range see folks in them 11 to 125 range see folks in them 11 to 125 range somewhere around there which is pretty
32:00somewhere around there which is pretty somewhere around there which is pretty mild acclimate and then stay in I think mild acclimate and then stay in I think mild acclimate and then stay in I think uh staying in longer is probably in a uh staying in longer is probably in a uh staying in longer is probably in a modest comfortable environment is modest comfortable environment is modest comfortable environment is probably a better way to go to to uh to probably a better way to go to to uh to probably a better way to go to to uh to kick in that heavy sweat okay um just kick in that heavy sweat okay um just kick in that heavy sweat okay um just one last question here um so you know one last question here um so you know one last question here um so you know everybody seems to have a you know a everybody seems to have a you know a everybody seems to have a you know a lifetime warranty now um is there what lifetime warranty now um is there what lifetime warranty now um is there what do you think would be you know if uh one do you think would be you know if uh one do you think would be you know if uh one one of our customers were evaluating a one of our customers were evaluating a one of our customers were evaluating a warranty um policy what would be like a warranty um policy what would be like a warranty um policy what would be like a couple important things they might want couple important things they might want couple important things they might want to check on um if they to check on um if they to check on um if they were well you know the lifetime warranty were well you know the lifetime warranty were well you know the lifetime warranty that's you know when with all this that's you know when with all this that's you know when with all this influx of Chinese saunas one of their influx of Chinese saunas one of their influx of Chinese saunas one of their sailing selling points was you know sailing selling points was you know sailing selling points was you know lifetime warranties we used to have I lifetime warranties we used to have I lifetime warranties we used to have I think a fiveyear warranty and then we think a fiveyear warranty and then we think a fiveyear warranty and then we went to seven and all these guys selling went to seven and all these guys selling went to seven and all these guys selling Chinese on are going lifetime so you Chinese on are going lifetime so you Chinese on are going lifetime so you know we kind of had to jump on board and know we kind of had to jump on board and know we kind of had to jump on board and I don't really mind doing it because of
33:00I don't really mind doing it because of I don't really mind doing it because of the way we build our saunas they're a the way we build our saunas they're a the way we build our saunas they're a bit like a rock you know we've had them bit like a rock you know we've had them bit like a rock you know we've had them in clinics for 25 years and they look in clinics for 25 years and they look in clinics for 25 years and they look like new so I don't mind doing it and like new so I don't mind doing it and like new so I don't mind doing it and our heaters are very durable too so uh our heaters are very durable too so uh our heaters are very durable too so uh but what what I in looking at some of but what what I in looking at some of but what what I in looking at some of the warranties that I've seen for other the warranties that I've seen for other the warranties that I've seen for other companies they they will often have all companies they they will often have all companies they they will often have all this fine print stuff where they're not this fine print stuff where they're not this fine print stuff where they're not covering uh any professional labor if covering uh any professional labor if covering uh any professional labor if indeed you do need to hire somebody to indeed you do need to hire somebody to indeed you do need to hire somebody to switch out a part or make a repair of switch out a part or make a repair of switch out a part or make a repair of some kind what they'll do is supply you some kind what they'll do is supply you some kind what they'll do is supply you with the part they may not supply they with the part they may not supply they with the part they may not supply they may not uh pay for the shipping of the may not uh pay for the shipping of the may not uh pay for the shipping of the part they may not pay for the labor Etc part they may not pay for the labor Etc part they may not pay for the labor Etc so what what we do cover cover so what what we do cover cover so what what we do cover cover everything you know it's a full we have everything you know it's a full we have everything you know it's a full we have a lifetime warranty on the electrical a lifetime warranty on the electrical a lifetime warranty on the electrical the heaters and the the heaters and the the heaters and the construction and we cover any construction and we cover any construction and we cover any professional labor that may ever be professional labor that may ever be professional labor that may ever be required and the shipping of any parts
34:00required and the shipping of any parts required and the shipping of any parts that may need to be sent to the customer that may need to be sent to the customer that may need to be sent to the customer we cover it all so we do have we do have we cover it all so we do have we do have we cover it all so we do have we do have a limited I should say five years on our a limited I should say five years on our a limited I should say five years on our electronic controls you know electronics electronic controls you know electronics electronic controls you know electronics are are are notoriously uh heat sensitive you know notoriously uh heat sensitive you know notoriously uh heat sensitive you know they're not going to last forever in a they're not going to last forever in a they're not going to last forever in a hot environment so we have five years on hot environment so we have five years on hot environment so we have five years on those and we'll replace any part you those and we'll replace any part you those and we'll replace any part you need thereafter at our cost direct from need thereafter at our cost direct from need thereafter at our cost direct from our our supplier so I think it's a our our supplier so I think it's a our our supplier so I think it's a really good warranty but people have to really good warranty but people have to really good warranty but people have to read the fine print if they're concerned read the fine print if they're concerned read the fine print if they're concerned with that about the uh the labor issues with that about the uh the labor issues with that about the uh the labor issues and shipping parts and all that other and shipping parts and all that other and shipping parts and all that other stuff okay well thanks for taking the stuff okay well thanks for taking the stuff okay well thanks for taking the time today um this was a lot of great time today um this was a lot of great time today um this was a lot of great high quality information that I think high quality information that I think high quality information that I think our customers will definitely benefit our customers will definitely benefit our customers will definitely benefit from we'll have it right up there on the from we'll have it right up there on the from we'll have it right up there on the site you can take a listen um and yeah site you can take a listen um and yeah site you can take a listen um and yeah appreciate again the time and uh appreciate again the time and uh appreciate again the time and uh it's Bob Morgan from Heavenly heat
35:00it's Bob Morgan from Heavenly heat it's Bob Morgan from Heavenly heat thanks Alex right appreciate the thanks Alex right appreciate the thanks Alex right appreciate the opportunity my pleasure we'll talk again opportunity my pleasure we'll talk again opportunity my pleasure we'll talk again okay all right byebye