Full Transcript: How to Prevent & Treat Colds & Flu
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0:00 welcome to the huberman Lab podcast
0:02 welcome to the huberman Lab podcast
0:02 welcome to the huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and
0:03 where we discuss science and
0:03 where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday
0:05 science-based tools for everyday
0:05 science-based tools for everyday [Music]
0:08 [Music]
0:08 [Music] life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a
0:10 life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a
0:10 life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and
0:12 professor of neurobiology and
0:12 professor of neurobiology and Opthalmology at Stanford school of
0:14 Opthalmology at Stanford school of
0:14 Opthalmology at Stanford school of medicine today my guest is Dr Susanna
0:16 medicine today my guest is Dr Susanna
0:16 medicine today my guest is Dr Susanna soberg Dr Susanna soberg completed her
0:19 soberg Dr Susanna soberg completed her
0:19 soberg Dr Susanna soberg completed her doctoral thesis work at the center of
0:21 doctoral thesis work at the center of
0:21 doctoral thesis work at the center of inflammation and metabolism and the
0:23 inflammation and metabolism and the
0:23 inflammation and metabolism and the center for physical activity research at
0:25 center for physical activity research at
0:25 center for physical activity research at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark
0:27 the University of Copenhagen in Denmark
0:27 the University of Copenhagen in Denmark her research has focused on how
0:29 her research has focused on how
0:29 her research has focused on how deliberate cold exposure and deliberate
0:31 deliberate cold exposure and deliberate
0:31 deliberate cold exposure and deliberate heat exposure can be used to enhance
0:33 heat exposure can be used to enhance
0:33 heat exposure can be used to enhance human metabolism she is the first author
0:36 human metabolism she is the first author
0:36 human metabolism she is the first author of a seminal study which discovered the
0:38 of a seminal study which discovered the
0:38 of a seminal study which discovered the minimum thresholds for deliberate heat
0:40 minimum thresholds for deliberate heat
0:40 minimum thresholds for deliberate heat and deliberate cold exposure for
0:42 and deliberate cold exposure for
0:42 and deliberate cold exposure for increasing Brown fat thermogenesis which
0:45 increasing Brown fat thermogenesis which
0:45 increasing Brown fat thermogenesis which is essentially a mode of increasing heat
0:47 is essentially a mode of increasing heat
0:47 is essentially a mode of increasing heat production and Metabolism in the body
0:50 production and Metabolism in the body
0:50 production and Metabolism in the body and for establishing actionable
0:52 and for establishing actionable
0:52 and for establishing actionable protocols that can be used outside of
0:54 protocols that can be used outside of
0:54 protocols that can be used outside of the laboratory to improve metabolism and
0:56 the laboratory to improve metabolism and
0:56 the laboratory to improve metabolism and human health Dr sog's research was
0:58 human health Dr sog's research was
0:58 human health Dr sog's research was published in the journal reports
1:00 published in the journal reports
1:00 published in the journal reports metabolism in 2021 adding to a long and
1:03 metabolism in 2021 adding to a long and
1:03 metabolism in 2021 adding to a long and important history of research focusing
1:06 important history of research focusing
1:06 important history of research focusing on the role of cold and the role of heat
1:08 on the role of cold and the role of heat
1:08 on the role of cold and the role of heat in altering various aspects of the
1:10 in altering various aspects of the
1:10 in altering various aspects of the body's physiology including Hormone
1:12 body's physiology including Hormone
1:12 body's physiology including Hormone Health metabolism and changes in
1:14 Health metabolism and changes in
1:14 Health metabolism and changes in neurotransmitters such as dopamine and
1:17 neurotransmitters such as dopamine and
1:17 neurotransmitters such as dopamine and epinephrine in fact today's discussion
1:18 epinephrine in fact today's discussion
1:19 epinephrine in fact today's discussion with Dr soberg focuses on the role of
1:21 with Dr soberg focuses on the role of
1:21 with Dr soberg focuses on the role of deliberate heat and deliberate cold
1:22 deliberate heat and deliberate cold
1:22 deliberate heat and deliberate cold exposure on metabolism but it also
1:24 exposure on metabolism but it also
1:24 exposure on metabolism but it also includes discussion of the effects of
1:26 includes discussion of the effects of
1:26 includes discussion of the effects of cold and heat on things like
1:28 cold and heat on things like
1:28 cold and heat on things like neurotransmitter production namely
1:30 neurotransmitter production namely
1:30 neurotransmitter production namely dopamine and epinephrine and
1:32 dopamine and epinephrine and
1:32 dopamine and epinephrine and norepinephrine the so-call catacol
1:33 norepinephrine the so-call catacol
1:33 norepinephrine the so-call catacol amines which strongly impact mood and
1:37 amines which strongly impact mood and
1:37 amines which strongly impact mood and Metabolism in addition Dr soberg answers
1:40 Metabolism in addition Dr soberg answers
1:40 Metabolism in addition Dr soberg answers many common questions about deliberate
1:41 many common questions about deliberate
1:41 many common questions about deliberate cold and deliberate heat exposure
1:43 cold and deliberate heat exposure
1:43 cold and deliberate heat exposure including for instance the difference
1:45 including for instance the difference
1:45 including for instance the difference between cold showers versus cold
1:47 between cold showers versus cold
1:47 between cold showers versus cold immersion up to the neck versus total
1:49 immersion up to the neck versus total
1:49 immersion up to the neck versus total body cold immersion including whether or
1:51 body cold immersion including whether or
1:51 body cold immersion including whether or not going back and forth between heat
1:53 not going back and forth between heat
1:53 not going back and forth between heat and cold changes fundamentally the way
1:56 and cold changes fundamentally the way
1:56 and cold changes fundamentally the way that heat and cold impact the metabolism
1:58 that heat and cold impact the metabolism
1:58 that heat and cold impact the metabolism hormones and neurotransmitter production
1:59 hormones and neurotransmitter production
1:59 hormones and neurotransmitter production ction and we talk about almost every
2:02 ction and we talk about almost every
2:02 ction and we talk about almost every single nuance and variation on
2:04 single nuance and variation on
2:04 single nuance and variation on deliberate cold and deliberate heat
2:05 deliberate cold and deliberate heat
2:05 deliberate cold and deliberate heat exposure protocols as it relates to the
2:08 exposure protocols as it relates to the
2:08 exposure protocols as it relates to the underlying science in particular how
2:10 underlying science in particular how
2:10 underlying science in particular how cold receptors at the level of the skin
2:12 cold receptors at the level of the skin
2:12 cold receptors at the level of the skin are impacted versus cold reception and
2:15 are impacted versus cold reception and
2:15 are impacted versus cold reception and perception at the level of the brain and
2:18 perception at the level of the brain and
2:18 perception at the level of the brain and how all of that impacts systems of the
2:19 how all of that impacts systems of the
2:19 how all of that impacts systems of the brain and body relating to mental health
2:22 brain and body relating to mental health
2:22 brain and body relating to mental health physical health and Performance Based on
2:24 physical health and Performance Based on
2:24 physical health and Performance Based on her scientific research and academic
2:26 her scientific research and academic
2:26 her scientific research and academic training as well as her understanding
2:28 training as well as her understanding
2:28 training as well as her understanding and use of deliberate heat and
2:30 and use of deliberate heat and
2:30 and use of deliberate heat and deliberate cold exposure protocols Dr
2:32 deliberate cold exposure protocols Dr
2:32 deliberate cold exposure protocols Dr soberg is considered one of the world's
2:34 soberg is considered one of the world's
2:34 soberg is considered one of the world's leading experts on these topics in fact
2:36 leading experts on these topics in fact
2:36 leading experts on these topics in fact she is the author of a recent book
2:38 she is the author of a recent book
2:38 she is the author of a recent book entitled winter swimming which is I have
2:41 entitled winter swimming which is I have
2:41 entitled winter swimming which is I have to say a terrific book because it breaks
2:43 to say a terrific book because it breaks
2:43 to say a terrific book because it breaks down chapter by chapter the different
2:45 down chapter by chapter the different
2:45 down chapter by chapter the different aspects of deliberate heat and
2:46 aspects of deliberate heat and
2:46 aspects of deliberate heat and deliberate cold into its various
2:48 deliberate cold into its various
2:48 deliberate cold into its various constituent Parts including cold
2:51 constituent Parts including cold
2:51 constituent Parts including cold acclimation the cold shock response
2:54 acclimation the cold shock response
2:54 acclimation the cold shock response dangers and safeties of cold water the
2:57 dangers and safeties of cold water the
2:57 dangers and safeties of cold water the impact of cold and impact of heat on
2:59 impact of cold and impact of heat on
2:59 impact of cold and impact of heat on various aspect aspects of human health
3:01 various aspect aspects of human health
3:01 various aspect aspects of human health as well as specifics relating to Sauna
3:04 as well as specifics relating to Sauna
3:04 as well as specifics relating to Sauna versus Ice versus cold swimming showers
3:06 versus Ice versus cold swimming showers
3:06 versus Ice versus cold swimming showers Etc it's a very thorough read and a very
3:09 Etc it's a very thorough read and a very
3:09 Etc it's a very thorough read and a very easy and accessible read that if you are
3:11 easy and accessible read that if you are
3:11 easy and accessible read that if you are interested in deliberate cold or
3:12 interested in deliberate cold or
3:12 interested in deliberate cold or deliberate heat exposure or both will
3:14 deliberate heat exposure or both will
3:14 deliberate heat exposure or both will allow you to embrace those protocols
3:17 allow you to embrace those protocols
3:17 allow you to embrace those protocols with the greatest degree of confidence
3:18 with the greatest degree of confidence
3:18 with the greatest degree of confidence that you're going to obtain the specific
3:20 that you're going to obtain the specific
3:20 that you're going to obtain the specific end points that you're interested in and
3:22 end points that you're interested in and
3:22 end points that you're interested in and to do so safely before we begin I'd like
3:25 to do so safely before we begin I'd like
3:25 to do so safely before we begin I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is
3:26 to emphasize that this podcast is
3:26 to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research
3:28 separate from my teaching and research
3:28 separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford it is ever part of my
3:30 roles at Stanford it is ever part of my
3:30 roles at Stanford it is ever part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to
3:32 desire and effort to bring zero cost to
3:32 desire and effort to bring zero cost to Consumer information about science and
3:33 Consumer information about science and
3:33 Consumer information about science and science related tools to the general
3:35 science related tools to the general
3:35 science related tools to the general public in keeping with that theme I'd
3:37 public in keeping with that theme I'd
3:37 public in keeping with that theme I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's
3:39 like to thank the sponsors of today's
3:39 like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast our first sponsor is plunge
3:42 podcast our first sponsor is plunge
3:42 podcast our first sponsor is plunge plunge makes what I believe is the most
3:44 plunge makes what I believe is the most
3:44 plunge makes what I believe is the most versatile atome self-cooling cold plunge
3:46 versatile atome self-cooling cold plunge
3:46 versatile atome self-cooling cold plunge for deliberate cold exposure I've talked
3:48 for deliberate cold exposure I've talked
3:48 for deliberate cold exposure I've talked numerous times on this podcast about the
3:51 numerous times on this podcast about the
3:51 numerous times on this podcast about the many benefits of deliberate cold
3:52 many benefits of deliberate cold
3:52 many benefits of deliberate cold exposure and indeed today's episode is
3:54 exposure and indeed today's episode is
3:54 exposure and indeed today's episode is focused entirely on the benefits and the
3:57 focused entirely on the benefits and the
3:57 focused entirely on the benefits and the science of deliberate cold exposure
3:59 science of deliberate cold exposure
3:59 science of deliberate cold exposure Plunge uses a powerful cooling
4:00 Plunge uses a powerful cooling
4:00 Plunge uses a powerful cooling filtration and sanitation unit to give
4:03 filtration and sanitation unit to give
4:03 filtration and sanitation unit to give you access to deliberate cold exposure
4:05 you access to deliberate cold exposure
4:05 you access to deliberate cold exposure in clean water whenever you want as we
4:07 in clean water whenever you want as we
4:07 in clean water whenever you want as we will discuss during today's episode with
4:08 will discuss during today's episode with
4:08 will discuss during today's episode with Dr Susanna soberg deliberate cold
4:10 Dr Susanna soberg deliberate cold
4:10 Dr Susanna soberg deliberate cold exposure especially deliberate cold
4:12 exposure especially deliberate cold
4:12 exposure especially deliberate cold exposure done up to the neck in water
4:15 exposure done up to the neck in water
4:15 exposure done up to the neck in water can be used to achieve a number of
4:16 can be used to achieve a number of
4:16 can be used to achieve a number of important end points related to mental
4:18 important end points related to mental
4:18 important end points related to mental health physical health and performance
4:20 health physical health and performance
4:20 health physical health and performance I've been using a plunge for more than
4:21 I've been using a plunge for more than
4:21 I've been using a plunge for more than two years now I can tell you that it
4:23 two years now I can tell you that it
4:23 two years now I can tell you that it makes it very easy to get your
4:25 makes it very easy to get your
4:25 makes it very easy to get your deliberate cold exposure at home it
4:27 deliberate cold exposure at home it
4:27 deliberate cold exposure at home it doesn't require much cleaning in fact
4:28 doesn't require much cleaning in fact
4:28 doesn't require much cleaning in fact it's very easy to keep clean which is
4:30 it's very easy to keep clean which is
4:30 it's very easy to keep clean which is essential you don't want bacteria and
4:31 essential you don't want bacteria and
4:31 essential you don't want bacteria and other things growing in your Cal plunge
4:33 other things growing in your Cal plunge
4:33 other things growing in your Cal plunge basically everything about the plunge is
4:35 basically everything about the plunge is
4:35 basically everything about the plunge is made easy so that anyone including
4:37 made easy so that anyone including
4:37 made easy so that anyone including myself can get their deliberate cold
4:39 myself can get their deliberate cold
4:39 myself can get their deliberate cold exposure on a regular basis at home if
4:41 exposure on a regular basis at home if
4:41 exposure on a regular basis at home if you're interested in getting a plunge
4:42 you're interested in getting a plunge
4:42 you're interested in getting a plunge you can go to plunge spelled p l u n
4:45 you can go to plunge spelled p l u n
4:45 you can go to plunge spelled p l u n ge.com huberman and get $150 off your
4:49 ge.com huberman and get $150 off your
4:49 ge.com huberman and get $150 off your cold plunge again that's plunge. comom
4:52 cold plunge again that's plunge. comom
4:52 cold plunge again that's plunge. comom huberman for $150 off today's episode is
4:55 huberman for $150 off today's episode is
4:55 huberman for $150 off today's episode is also brought To Us by Maui Nei venison
4:57 also brought To Us by Maui Nei venison
4:57 also brought To Us by Maui Nei venison which I can confidently say is the most
4:58 which I can confidently say is the most
4:58 which I can confidently say is the most nutrient-dense and delicious red meat
5:00 nutrient-dense and delicious red meat
5:00 nutrient-dense and delicious red meat available Maui Nei spent nearly a decade
5:03 available Maui Nei spent nearly a decade
5:03 available Maui Nei spent nearly a decade building a USDA certified wild
5:05 building a USDA certified wild
5:05 building a USDA certified wild harvesting system to help balance deer
5:07 harvesting system to help balance deer
5:07 harvesting system to help balance deer populations on the island of Maui the
5:09 populations on the island of Maui the
5:09 populations on the island of Maui the solution they built turns the
5:10 solution they built turns the
5:10 solution they built turns the proliferation of an invasive species
5:12 proliferation of an invasive species
5:12 proliferation of an invasive species into a wide range of nutrients Den
5:14 into a wide range of nutrients Den
5:14 into a wide range of nutrients Den products from butcher cuts and organ
5:16 products from butcher cuts and organ
5:16 products from butcher cuts and organ Meats to bone broth and jerky their bone
5:18 Meats to bone broth and jerky their bone
5:18 Meats to bone broth and jerky their bone broth has an unmatch 25 grams of protein
5:20 broth has an unmatch 25 grams of protein
5:20 broth has an unmatch 25 grams of protein per 100 calories several guests on this
5:22 per 100 calories several guests on this
5:22 per 100 calories several guests on this podcast who are experts in nutrition
5:24 podcast who are experts in nutrition
5:24 podcast who are experts in nutrition have pointed to the value of getting at
5:26 have pointed to the value of getting at
5:26 have pointed to the value of getting at least one gram of quality protein per
5:29 least one gram of quality protein per
5:29 least one gram of quality protein per pound of body weight each day with Maui
5:31 pound of body weight each day with Maui
5:31 pound of body weight each day with Maui Nei that's very easy to do while eating
5:33 Nei that's very easy to do while eating
5:33 Nei that's very easy to do while eating delicious meals and getting it from a
5:35 delicious meals and getting it from a
5:35 delicious meals and getting it from a sustainable Source if you would like to
5:37 sustainable Source if you would like to
5:37 sustainable Source if you would like to try Maui Nei venison go to mauii Venison
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5:46 order again that's Maui venison decom huberman to get 20% off today's episode
5:49 huberman to get 20% off today's episode
5:49 huberman to get 20% off today's episode is also brought To Us by thesis thesis
5:51 is also brought To Us by thesis thesis
5:51 is also brought To Us by thesis thesis makes custom neut tropics and neut
5:52 makes custom neut tropics and neut
5:52 makes custom neut tropics and neut Tropics is not a word that I like
5:54 Tropics is not a word that I like
5:54 Tropics is not a word that I like because it means smart drugs and the
5:56 because it means smart drugs and the
5:56 because it means smart drugs and the brain doesn't have neural circuits for
5:58 brain doesn't have neural circuits for
5:58 brain doesn't have neural circuits for being smart rather has neural circuits
5:59 being smart rather has neural circuits
5:59 being smart rather has neural circuits for Focus neural circuits for task
6:01 for Focus neural circuits for task
6:01 for Focus neural circuits for task switching neural circuits for creativity
6:03 switching neural circuits for creativity
6:03 switching neural circuits for creativity and on and on thesis understands this
6:06 and on and on thesis understands this
6:06 and on and on thesis understands this and Designs custom neut Tropics designed
6:07 and Designs custom neut Tropics designed
6:07 and Designs custom neut Tropics designed to get your brain and body into specific
6:09 to get your brain and body into specific
6:09 to get your brain and body into specific States in order to do the mental and or
6:12 States in order to do the mental and or
6:12 States in order to do the mental and or physical work that's important to you
6:14 physical work that's important to you
6:14 physical work that's important to you such as creativity or Focus or Clarity
6:17 such as creativity or Focus or Clarity
6:17 such as creativity or Focus or Clarity if you'd like to try thesis neut Tropics
6:18 if you'd like to try thesis neut Tropics
6:18 if you'd like to try thesis neut Tropics you simply go to their website you fill
6:20 you simply go to their website you fill
6:20 you simply go to their website you fill out a brief quiz and they will design a
6:22 out a brief quiz and they will design a
6:22 out a brief quiz and they will design a custom starter pack so that you can
6:24 custom starter pack so that you can
6:24 custom starter pack so that you can assess which things work for you more or
6:26 assess which things work for you more or
6:26 assess which things work for you more or less well and then they'll iterate with
6:28 less well and then they'll iterate with
6:28 less well and then they'll iterate with you over the course of the next few
6:29 you over the course of the next few
6:29 you over the course of the next few weeks or months to come up with the
6:31 weeks or months to come up with the
6:31 weeks or months to come up with the ideal neut Tropic kit for your needs to
6:33 ideal neut Tropic kit for your needs to
6:33 ideal neut Tropic kit for your needs to get your own personalized neut Tropic
6:35 get your own personalized neut Tropic
6:35 get your own personalized neut Tropic starter kit go online to taketh thesis.
6:37 starter kit go online to taketh thesis.
6:37 starter kit go online to taketh thesis. comom huberman you can take that
6:39 comom huberman you can take that
6:39 comom huberman you can take that three-minute quiz and they'll send you
6:40 three-minute quiz and they'll send you
6:40 three-minute quiz and they'll send you four different formulas to try in your
6:42 four different formulas to try in your
6:42 four different formulas to try in your first month again that's take thesis.
6:44 first month again that's take thesis.
6:44 first month again that's take thesis. comom huberman and use the code Huber
6:46 comom huberman and use the code Huber
6:46 comom huberman and use the code Huber minute checkout to get 10% off your
6:48 minute checkout to get 10% off your
6:48 minute checkout to get 10% off your first box I'm pleased to announce that I
6:50 first box I'm pleased to announce that I
6:50 first box I'm pleased to announce that I will be hosting two live events in
6:52 will be hosting two live events in
6:52 will be hosting two live events in September of
6:53 September of
6:53 September of 20123 the first live event will take
6:55 20123 the first live event will take
6:55 20123 the first live event will take place in Toronto on September 12th the
6:58 place in Toronto on September 12th the
6:58 place in Toronto on September 12th the second live event will take Place in
7:00 second live event will take Place in
7:00 second live event will take Place in Chicago on September 28th both Live
7:02 Chicago on September 28th both Live
7:02 Chicago on September 28th both Live Events will include a lecture and a
7:04 Events will include a lecture and a
7:04 Events will include a lecture and a question and answer period and are
7:06 question and answer period and are
7:06 question and answer period and are entitled The Brain body contract during
7:08 entitled The Brain body contract during
7:08 entitled The Brain body contract during which I will discuss tools and science
7:10 which I will discuss tools and science
7:10 which I will discuss tools and science related to mental health physical health
7:12 related to mental health physical health
7:12 related to mental health physical health and performance I should mention that a
7:14 and performance I should mention that a
7:14 and performance I should mention that a lot of that content will have absolutely
7:16 lot of that content will have absolutely
7:16 lot of that content will have absolutely no overlap with content covered
7:18 no overlap with content covered
7:18 no overlap with content covered previously on the hubman Lab podcast or
7:20 previously on the hubman Lab podcast or
7:20 previously on the hubman Lab podcast or elsewhere if you're interested in
7:21 elsewhere if you're interested in
7:21 elsewhere if you're interested in attending either or both of these events
7:23 attending either or both of these events
7:23 attending either or both of these events please go to hubman lab.com tour and
7:26 please go to hubman lab.com tour and
7:26 please go to hubman lab.com tour and enter the code huberman to get early
7:28 enter the code huberman to get early
7:28 enter the code huberman to get early access to tickets once again that's
7:30 access to tickets once again that's
7:30 access to tickets once again that's hubman lab.com tour and use the code
7:33 hubman lab.com tour and use the code
7:33 hubman lab.com tour and use the code huberman to access tickets I hope to see
7:35 huberman to access tickets I hope to see
7:35 huberman to access tickets I hope to see you there and now for my discussion with
7:38 you there and now for my discussion with
7:38 you there and now for my discussion with Dr Susanna soberg Dr Susanna soberg
7:41 Dr Susanna soberg Dr Susanna soberg
7:41 Dr Susanna soberg Dr Susanna soberg welcome thank you so great to have you
7:43 welcome thank you so great to have you
7:44 welcome thank you so great to have you here I feel like I should give a little
7:45 here I feel like I should give a little
7:45 here I feel like I should give a little bit of the backstory of how we got
7:47 bit of the backstory of how we got
7:47 bit of the backstory of how we got connected which was that for many years
7:50 connected which was that for many years
7:50 connected which was that for many years I've been interested in cold
7:52 I've been interested in cold
7:52 I've been interested in cold thermogenesis it was the topic of my
7:54 thermogenesis it was the topic of my
7:54 thermogenesis it was the topic of my senior thesis in college and I've of
7:57 senior thesis in college and I've of
7:57 senior thesis in college and I've of course followed the uh popularity of whm
8:00 course followed the uh popularity of whm
8:00 course followed the uh popularity of whm Hoff and we've had Dr Craig heler my
8:03 Hoff and we've had Dr Craig heler my
8:03 Hoff and we've had Dr Craig heler my colleague from biology department at
8:06 colleague from biology department at
8:06 colleague from biology department at Stanford who works on cold and its
8:09 Stanford who works on cold and its
8:09 Stanford who works on cold and its impact on physiology and sports
8:10 impact on physiology and sports
8:10 impact on physiology and sports performance so for a long time I've been
8:12 performance so for a long time I've been
8:12 performance so for a long time I've been interested in this area but there's been
8:15 interested in this area but there's been
8:15 interested in this area but there's been a real uh lack of new let's say
8:20 a real uh lack of new let's say
8:20 a real uh lack of new let's say high-profile quality scientific
8:22 high-profile quality scientific
8:22 high-profile quality scientific information in terms of how for instance
8:25 information in terms of how for instance
8:25 information in terms of how for instance cold plunges and sauna how that impacts
8:28 cold plunges and sauna how that impacts
8:28 cold plunges and sauna how that impacts human physiology I know there's been
8:30 human physiology I know there's been
8:30 human physiology I know there's been some information out there but it's been
8:32 some information out there but it's been
8:32 some information out there but it's been sort of scattered and then a little over
8:34 sort of scattered and then a little over
8:34 sort of scattered and then a little over a year ago I see this paper in
8:37 a year ago I see this paper in
8:37 a year ago I see this paper in cellreports medicine and was immediately
8:40 cellreports medicine and was immediately
8:40 cellreports medicine and was immediately struck the first of all the fact that it
8:42 struck the first of all the fact that it
8:42 struck the first of all the fact that it was in cell reports medicine I've been
8:44 was in cell reports medicine I've been
8:44 was in cell reports medicine I've been on the cell press editorial board for a
8:46 on the cell press editorial board for a
8:46 on the cell press editorial board for a long time now so press journals are of
8:48 long time now so press journals are of
8:48 long time now so press journals are of course phenomenal journals and the title
8:51 course phenomenal journals and the title
8:51 course phenomenal journals and the title and the content of the paper was
8:54 and the content of the paper was
8:54 and the content of the paper was directly in line with the sorts of
8:55 directly in line with the sorts of
8:55 directly in line with the sorts of practices that people are very curious
8:57 practices that people are very curious
8:57 practices that people are very curious about and then are starting to emerge
8:59 about and then are starting to emerge
8:59 about and then are starting to emerge things like sauna cold plunges and there
9:01 things like sauna cold plunges and there
9:01 things like sauna cold plunges and there was your name first on the author list
9:05 was your name first on the author list
9:05 was your name first on the author list and I reached out to you through social
9:06 and I reached out to you through social
9:06 and I reached out to you through social media and we've done a little bit of
9:08 media and we've done a little bit of
9:08 media and we've done a little bit of live content there together and I've
9:10 live content there together and I've
9:10 live content there together and I've been tracking what you've been doing in
9:12 been tracking what you've been doing in
9:12 been tracking what you've been doing in the world in terms of your book and
9:14 the world in terms of your book and
9:14 the world in terms of your book and talking about the results in your
9:16 talking about the results in your
9:16 talking about the results in your manuscript and talking about the science
9:18 manuscript and talking about the science
9:18 manuscript and talking about the science and impact of deliberate cold exposure
9:20 and impact of deliberate cold exposure
9:20 and impact of deliberate cold exposure and SAA and I have to say that it's been
9:23 and SAA and I have to say that it's been
9:23 and SAA and I have to say that it's been a wonderful and remarkable thing to see
9:25 a wonderful and remarkable thing to see
9:25 a wonderful and remarkable thing to see and you're bringing so much quality
9:27 and you're bringing so much quality
9:27 and you're bringing so much quality information about this area that for a
9:29 information about this area that for a
9:29 information about this area that for a long time I think was kind of Niche and
9:30 long time I think was kind of Niche and
9:31 long time I think was kind of Niche and is now becoming more and more mainstream
9:33 is now becoming more and more mainstream
9:33 is now becoming more and more mainstream so I'm going to start off with a thank
9:35 so I'm going to start off with a thank
9:35 so I'm going to start off with a thank you for being here and a thank you for
9:37 you for being here and a thank you for
9:37 you for being here and a thank you for the work that you've done and I'm
9:39 the work that you've done and I'm
9:39 the work that you've done and I'm looking forward to talking to you about
9:40 looking forward to talking to you about
9:41 looking forward to talking to you about it today so my first question um to get
9:44 it today so my first question um to get
9:44 it today so my first question um to get things started is what is happening when
9:48 things started is what is happening when
9:48 things started is what is happening when we get into an uncomfortably cold
9:51 we get into an uncomfortably cold
9:51 we get into an uncomfortably cold environment so for instance if I'm
9:54 environment so for instance if I'm
9:54 environment so for instance if I'm really hot on a hot day jumping into a
9:56 really hot on a hot day jumping into a
9:56 really hot on a hot day jumping into a cold pool feels really good but if I'm
9:59 cold pool feels really good but if I'm
9:59 cold pool feels really good but if I'm already kind of uh at room temperature
10:02 already kind of uh at room temperature
10:02 already kind of uh at room temperature I'm a little bit chilly getting into
10:04 I'm a little bit chilly getting into
10:04 I'm a little bit chilly getting into that same temperature of water doesn't
10:05 that same temperature of water doesn't
10:06 that same temperature of water doesn't feel so good right there's a shock there
10:08 feel so good right there's a shock there
10:08 feel so good right there's a shock there so if you could just walk us through
10:09 so if you could just walk us through
10:09 so if you could just walk us through what happens when we get into
10:11 what happens when we get into
10:11 what happens when we get into uncomfortably cold water whether or not
10:13 uncomfortably cold water whether or not
10:13 uncomfortably cold water whether or not it's by way of shower or cold Plunge at
10:15 it's by way of shower or cold Plunge at
10:15 it's by way of shower or cold Plunge at the level of our physiology and if you'd
10:17 the level of our physiology and if you'd
10:17 the level of our physiology and if you'd like our psychology I think that's a
10:19 like our psychology I think that's a
10:19 like our psychology I think that's a good place for us to start because I
10:20 good place for us to start because I
10:20 good place for us to start because I think it will Orient people to their own
10:22 think it will Orient people to their own
10:22 think it will Orient people to their own experience if they do that and for those
10:24 experience if they do that and for those
10:24 experience if they do that and for those that haven't done it um might start to
10:26 that haven't done it um might start to
10:26 that haven't done it um might start to peel back some of the the layers as to
10:29 peel back some of the the layers as to
10:29 peel back some of the the layers as to what the underlying mechanisms of cold
10:31 what the underlying mechanisms of cold
10:31 what the underlying mechanisms of cold are yeah thank you for that question
10:33 are yeah thank you for that question
10:33 are yeah thank you for that question it's really good to just address what
10:35 it's really good to just address what
10:35 it's really good to just address what actually happens in our physiology when
10:37 actually happens in our physiology when
10:37 actually happens in our physiology when we get cold and you can get cold in many
10:40 we get cold and you can get cold in many
10:40 we get cold and you can get cold in many ways so you can just head out for the
10:43 ways so you can just head out for the
10:43 ways so you can just head out for the one that gives you the most potent
10:45 one that gives you the most potent
10:45 one that gives you the most potent stressor which is submerging into cold
10:47 stressor which is submerging into cold
10:47 stressor which is submerging into cold water and but you could also go in
10:49 water and but you could also go in
10:50 water and but you could also go in outside in the cold wind that's also
10:52 outside in the cold wind that's also
10:52 outside in the cold wind that's also going to activate your um your
10:54 going to activate your um your
10:54 going to activate your um your sympathetic nervous system so get all
10:56 sympathetic nervous system so get all
10:56 sympathetic nervous system so get all these neurotransmitter going in your
10:58 these neurotransmitter going in your
10:58 these neurotransmitter going in your body and so your your catac colam mines
11:01 body and so your your catac colam mines
11:01 body and so your your catac colam mines um let's just address that we are taking
11:03 um let's just address that we are taking
11:03 um let's just address that we are taking a cold plch for example so if you are
11:06 a cold plch for example so if you are
11:06 a cold plch for example so if you are very hot for example um before you go
11:09 very hot for example um before you go
11:09 very hot for example um before you go into the cold water it's going to feel
11:11 into the cold water it's going to feel
11:11 into the cold water it's going to feel less it's going to feel less stressful
11:13 less it's going to feel less stressful
11:13 less it's going to feel less stressful but the the temperature a difference
11:16 but the the temperature a difference
11:16 but the the temperature a difference from your skin to the cold is definitely
11:18 from your skin to the cold is definitely
11:18 from your skin to the cold is definitely going to give you a a shock but your
11:20 going to give you a a shock but your
11:20 going to give you a a shock but your core temperature is warmer and that's
11:22 core temperature is warmer and that's
11:22 core temperature is warmer and that's going to feel a little bit better so
11:24 going to feel a little bit better so
11:24 going to feel a little bit better so that's why when people go into sauna for
11:26 that's why when people go into sauna for
11:26 that's why when people go into sauna for example and go out then in into the cold
11:28 example and go out then in into the cold
11:28 example and go out then in into the cold water they they they can do it easily
11:32 water they they they can do it easily
11:32 water they they they can do it easily easier than if they were cold beforehand
11:35 easier than if they were cold beforehand
11:35 easier than if they were cold beforehand could I just um ask you a few questions
11:37 could I just um ask you a few questions
11:37 could I just um ask you a few questions so you you mentioned the sympathetic
11:38 so you you mentioned the sympathetic
11:39 so you you mentioned the sympathetic nervous system which for um people
11:40 nervous system which for um people
11:40 nervous system which for um people listening who aren't familiar with that
11:42 listening who aren't familiar with that
11:42 listening who aren't familiar with that is the the branch of our nervous system
11:44 is the the branch of our nervous system
11:44 is the the branch of our nervous system that's responsible for creating
11:46 that's responsible for creating
11:46 that's responsible for creating accelerations in heart rate um feelings
11:49 accelerations in heart rate um feelings
11:49 accelerations in heart rate um feelings of alertness it's accompanied with
11:50 of alertness it's accompanied with
11:51 of alertness it's accompanied with stress and the stress response but it's
11:53 stress and the stress response but it's
11:53 stress and the stress response but it's accompanied with waking up in the
11:55 accompanied with waking up in the
11:55 accompanied with waking up in the morning for that matter so it's not
11:56 morning for that matter so it's not
11:56 morning for that matter so it's not always about stress and then you
11:57 always about stress and then you
11:57 always about stress and then you mentioned the catacol meines which
11:59 mentioned the catacol meines which
11:59 mentioned the catacol meines which um are dopamine epinephrine and
12:01 um are dopamine epinephrine and
12:01 um are dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine so maybe a little bit
12:03 norepinephrine so maybe a little bit
12:03 norepinephrine so maybe a little bit later we'll talk about those individual
12:04 later we'll talk about those individual
12:04 later we'll talk about those individual neurotransmitters but you raised a
12:06 neurotransmitters but you raised a
12:06 neurotransmitters but you raised a really important point which is
12:08 really important point which is
12:08 really important point which is something I get asked about a lot for
12:10 something I get asked about a lot for
12:10 something I get asked about a lot for people that are curious about using
12:12 people that are curious about using
12:12 people that are curious about using deliberate cold exposure which is how
12:13 deliberate cold exposure which is how
12:13 deliberate cold exposure which is how cold should the water be and I know it's
12:16 cold should the water be and I know it's
12:16 cold should the water be and I know it's very hard to give a straight
12:17 very hard to give a straight
12:17 very hard to give a straight prescription for that because I think it
12:19 prescription for that because I think it
12:19 prescription for that because I think it boils down to what you just said which
12:21 boils down to what you just said which
12:21 boils down to what you just said which is it's really the difference between
12:23 is it's really the difference between
12:23 is it's really the difference between your current temperature and really the
12:26 your current temperature and really the
12:26 your current temperature and really the temperature at the surface of your skin
12:27 temperature at the surface of your skin
12:27 temperature at the surface of your skin and the temperature of the water so if
12:28 and the temperature of the water so if
12:28 and the temperature of the water so if you're very warm getting into cold feels
12:30 you're very warm getting into cold feels
12:30 you're very warm getting into cold feels good if you're already cold getting into
12:33 good if you're already cold getting into
12:33 good if you're already cold getting into more cold feels stressful um is there
12:37 more cold feels stressful um is there
12:37 more cold feels stressful um is there any way that we can start to gauge what
12:40 any way that we can start to gauge what
12:40 any way that we can start to gauge what is the best way to approach a deliberate
12:42 is the best way to approach a deliberate
12:42 is the best way to approach a deliberate cold exposure protocol I mean should it
12:45 cold exposure protocol I mean should it
12:45 cold exposure protocol I mean should it feel
12:46 feel
12:46 feel uncomfortable and that leads into the
12:48 uncomfortable and that leads into the
12:48 uncomfortable and that leads into the question of how do we balance the
12:50 question of how do we balance the
12:50 question of how do we balance the discomfort with the amount of time that
12:51 discomfort with the amount of time that
12:51 discomfort with the amount of time that we spend in so for instance if it's just
12:54 we spend in so for instance if it's just
12:54 we spend in so for instance if it's just a little bit uncomfortable we spending
12:55 a little bit uncomfortable we spending
12:55 a little bit uncomfortable we spending more time in the cold get us the same
12:57 more time in the cold get us the same
12:57 more time in the cold get us the same benefit as getting into very un
12:59 benefit as getting into very un
12:59 benefit as getting into very un comfortably cold water for a very short
13:01 comfortably cold water for a very short
13:01 comfortably cold water for a very short period of time yeah that it's really
13:03 period of time yeah that it's really
13:03 period of time yeah that it's really good question and I definitely think
13:05 good question and I definitely think
13:05 good question and I definitely think that this could be um future studies on
13:08 that this could be um future studies on
13:08 that this could be um future studies on this as well to really unravel uh what
13:11 this as well to really unravel uh what
13:11 this as well to really unravel uh what kind of Protocols are the are the best
13:14 kind of Protocols are the are the best
13:14 kind of Protocols are the are the best way or also for which outcomes of course
13:17 way or also for which outcomes of course
13:17 way or also for which outcomes of course so if the temperature is uh very cold
13:21 so if the temperature is uh very cold
13:21 so if the temperature is uh very cold and you feel that and you also feel very
13:23 and you feel that and you also feel very
13:23 and you feel that and you also feel very cold then you you should stay in the
13:25 cold then you you should stay in the
13:25 cold then you you should stay in the water a little bit longer so I think
13:26 water a little bit longer so I think
13:26 water a little bit longer so I think it's just you should get uncomfortable
13:28 it's just you should get uncomfortable
13:28 it's just you should get uncomfortable cold so as long as you get uncomfortable
13:30 cold so as long as you get uncomfortable
13:30 cold so as long as you get uncomfortable cold it's cold enough and you get this
13:32 cold it's cold enough and you get this
13:32 cold it's cold enough and you get this what we call the cold shock so the cold
13:34 what we call the cold shock so the cold
13:34 what we call the cold shock so the cold shock is activation of your sympathetic
13:36 shock is activation of your sympathetic
13:36 shock is activation of your sympathetic nervous system and these activation of
13:39 nervous system and these activation of
13:39 nervous system and these activation of the the catacol mines which you just
13:41 the the catacol mines which you just
13:41 the the catacol mines which you just mentioned before does the shock mean
13:43 mentioned before does the shock mean
13:43 mentioned before does the shock mean that I'm having trouble controlling my
13:44 that I'm having trouble controlling my
13:44 that I'm having trouble controlling my breathing is that a good gauge uh yeah
13:47 breathing is that a good gauge uh yeah
13:47 breathing is that a good gauge uh yeah you can say so because that's kind of
13:49 you can say so because that's kind of
13:49 you can say so because that's kind of like how we Define it so you
13:52 like how we Define it so you
13:52 like how we Define it so you hyperventilate so you have a faster um
13:55 hyperventilate so you have a faster um
13:55 hyperventilate so you have a faster um uh breathing rate um so that increases
13:58 uh breathing rate um so that increases
13:58 uh breathing rate um so that increases also because you activate your gasping
14:00 also because you activate your gasping
14:00 also because you activate your gasping reflex if you are new to this um but if
14:03 reflex if you are new to this um but if
14:03 reflex if you are new to this um but if you are adapted it it kind of subsides
14:06 you are adapted it it kind of subsides
14:06 you are adapted it it kind of subsides with time with adaptation so what you
14:09 with time with adaptation so what you
14:09 with time with adaptation so what you can do is that you can train this cold
14:12 can do is that you can train this cold
14:12 can do is that you can train this cold exposure and you can kind of like Get
14:14 exposure and you can kind of like Get
14:14 exposure and you can kind of like Get adapted to it so you don't have this
14:16 adapted to it so you don't have this
14:16 adapted to it so you don't have this hyperventilating response every time you
14:19 hyperventilating response every time you
14:19 hyperventilating response every time you go out in the cold water so this is like
14:21 go out in the cold water so this is like
14:21 go out in the cold water so this is like building up your resilience building
14:23 building up your resilience building
14:23 building up your resilience building building up your adaptation is going to
14:25 building up your adaptation is going to
14:25 building up your adaptation is going to make this shock like subside a bit so
14:28 make this shock like subside a bit so
14:28 make this shock like subside a bit so it's it's always harder in the beginning
14:31 it's it's always harder in the beginning
14:31 it's it's always harder in the beginning but you should do hard things right it's
14:33 but you should do hard things right it's
14:33 but you should do hard things right it's not something that we you shouldn't
14:34 not something that we you shouldn't
14:34 not something that we you shouldn't think about cold water and cold water
14:36 think about cold water and cold water
14:36 think about cold water and cold water immersion as something that is
14:38 immersion as something that is
14:38 immersion as something that is comfortable it should be hard because
14:40 comfortable it should be hard because
14:40 comfortable it should be hard because that's the point of it right if you
14:41 that's the point of it right if you
14:41 that's the point of it right if you enjoy it then yeah then I'm I'm thinking
14:44 enjoy it then yeah then I'm I'm thinking
14:44 enjoy it then yeah then I'm I'm thinking something is wrong it's not right you
14:46 something is wrong it's not right you
14:46 something is wrong it's not right you should not enjoy it well this is an
14:47 should not enjoy it well this is an
14:47 should not enjoy it well this is an important point that you're making
14:48 important point that you're making
14:48 important point that you're making because I think that many people shy
14:51 because I think that many people shy
14:51 because I think that many people shy away from deliberate cold exposure
14:53 away from deliberate cold exposure
14:53 away from deliberate cold exposure because it's uncomfortable in a way that
14:56 because it's uncomfortable in a way that
14:56 because it's uncomfortable in a way that at least from my experience is very
14:58 at least from my experience is very
14:58 at least from my experience is very different than the discomfort of
14:59 different than the discomfort of
14:59 different than the discomfort of exercise because with exercise for
15:01 exercise because with exercise for
15:01 exercise because with exercise for instance um if running hard you know
15:04 instance um if running hard you know
15:04 instance um if running hard you know running fast and breathing hard is
15:06 running fast and breathing hard is
15:06 running fast and breathing hard is uncomfortable you can slow down or walk
15:08 uncomfortable you can slow down or walk
15:08 uncomfortable you can slow down or walk if um you know lifting weights is
15:10 if um you know lifting weights is
15:10 if um you know lifting weights is uncomfortable you can remove some weight
15:12 uncomfortable you can remove some weight
15:12 uncomfortable you can remove some weight or reduce the number of repetitions or
15:15 or reduce the number of repetitions or
15:15 or reduce the number of repetitions or stop with deliberate cold exposure I
15:18 stop with deliberate cold exposure I
15:18 stop with deliberate cold exposure I suppose you can be sort of halfway in
15:21 suppose you can be sort of halfway in
15:21 suppose you can be sort of halfway in halfway out of the water or partially
15:23 halfway out of the water or partially
15:23 halfway out of the water or partially underneath the cold shower but it's very
15:25 underneath the cold shower but it's very
15:25 underneath the cold shower but it's very hard to
15:26 hard to
15:26 hard to titrate and adjust the level to it's
15:29 titrate and adjust the level to it's
15:29 titrate and adjust the level to it's kind of all or none and I've seen um
15:32 kind of all or none and I've seen um
15:32 kind of all or none and I've seen um actually just I can tell this by
15:33 actually just I can tell this by
15:33 actually just I can tell this by anecdote I've done some work with
15:35 anecdote I've done some work with
15:35 anecdote I've done some work with military Special Operations um I won't
15:37 military Special Operations um I won't
15:37 military Special Operations um I won't say which country this was outside the
15:38 say which country this was outside the
15:38 say which country this was outside the US um and these are very tough
15:42 US um and these are very tough
15:43 US um and these are very tough individuals they're used to going
15:44 individuals they're used to going
15:44 individuals they're used to going without sleep and doing hard high
15:46 without sleep and doing hard high
15:46 without sleep and doing hard high consequence high risk kind of work and
15:49 consequence high risk kind of work and
15:49 consequence high risk kind of work and they were asked to do some cold water
15:51 they were asked to do some cold water
15:51 they were asked to do some cold water exposure training and I was there that
15:53 exposure training and I was there that
15:53 exposure training and I was there that day and it was remarkable about a third
15:55 day and it was remarkable about a third
15:55 day and it was remarkable about a third of them just went straight in just kind
15:59 of them just went straight in just kind
15:59 of them just went straight in just kind of grinded through it you know like they
16:01 of grinded through it you know like they
16:01 of grinded through it you know like they looked stoic anyway to me um there were
16:03 looked stoic anyway to me um there were
16:03 looked stoic anyway to me um there were a few whimpers no cries about a third um
16:08 a few whimpers no cries about a third um
16:08 a few whimpers no cries about a third um talked a lot and got really you could
16:09 talked a lot and got really you could
16:09 talked a lot and got really you could tell that they were agitated and anxious
16:11 tell that they were agitated and anxious
16:11 tell that they were agitated and anxious but they made it through and then about
16:12 but they made it through and then about
16:12 but they made it through and then about a third of them just simply would not
16:15 a third of them just simply would not
16:15 a third of them just simply would not get in past their knees or thighs were
16:18 get in past their knees or thighs were
16:18 get in past their knees or thighs were just it seemed like they were just
16:20 just it seemed like they were just
16:20 just it seemed like they were just dreading the whole experience some
16:21 dreading the whole experience some
16:21 dreading the whole experience some actually didn't actually go in
16:23 actually didn't actually go in
16:23 actually didn't actually go in completely um which was really
16:25 completely um which was really
16:25 completely um which was really surprising to me and I you couldn't tell
16:26 surprising to me and I you couldn't tell
16:26 surprising to me and I you couldn't tell based on their physical appearance or
16:29 based on their physical appearance or
16:29 based on their physical appearance or anything else about them they're all
16:30 anything else about them they're all
16:30 anything else about them they're all high performers as to who would have
16:31 high performers as to who would have
16:31 high performers as to who would have this response so it seems like people
16:34 this response so it seems like people
16:34 this response so it seems like people vary tremendously in terms of their
16:36 vary tremendously in terms of their
16:36 vary tremendously in terms of their ability to embrace the discomfort of the
16:38 ability to embrace the discomfort of the
16:38 ability to embrace the discomfort of the cold is that from your studies is that
16:40 cold is that from your studies is that
16:40 cold is that from your studies is that your experience as well or or are there
16:42 your experience as well or or are there
16:42 your experience as well or or are there these weird mutants who seem to just
16:44 these weird mutants who seem to just
16:44 these weird mutants who seem to just love going into the cold for the first
16:46 love going into the cold for the first
16:46 love going into the cold for the first time so some people just feel better in
16:49 time so some people just feel better in
16:49 time so some people just feel better in the cold and some people are dread the
16:52 the cold and some people are dread the
16:52 the cold and some people are dread the cold even more and you can say the more
16:55 cold even more and you can say the more
16:55 cold even more and you can say the more people are pushing the cold away they
16:57 people are pushing the cold away they
16:57 people are pushing the cold away they might feel the pain even more so they
17:00 might feel the pain even more so they
17:00 might feel the pain even more so they they they would definitely people who
17:02 they they would definitely people who
17:02 they they would definitely people who are maybe the solders you just talked
17:04 are maybe the solders you just talked
17:04 are maybe the solders you just talked about they some of them might be already
17:08 about they some of them might be already
17:08 about they some of them might be already adapted to the go cold so if they are
17:10 adapted to the go cold so if they are
17:10 adapted to the go cold so if they are not scared of the cold they go out and
17:13 not scared of the cold they go out and
17:13 not scared of the cold they go out and they embrace the cold in a better way it
17:15 they embrace the cold in a better way it
17:15 they embrace the cold in a better way it could also be that some people have a
17:17 could also be that some people have a
17:17 could also be that some people have a more sensitive nervous system and when
17:19 more sensitive nervous system and when
17:19 more sensitive nervous system and when you are a bit sensitive to the cold you
17:21 you are a bit sensitive to the cold you
17:21 you are a bit sensitive to the cold you will of course try to get away from it
17:24 will of course try to get away from it
17:24 will of course try to get away from it right and you will also have the Coan
17:26 right and you will also have the Coan
17:26 right and you will also have the Coan more um feel the Cain more if there if
17:29 more um feel the Cain more if there if
17:29 more um feel the Cain more if there if if you avoid it so the more you avoid
17:32 if you avoid it so the more you avoid
17:32 if you avoid it so the more you avoid the cold the the more pain painful it
17:34 the cold the the more pain painful it
17:34 the cold the the more pain painful it will feel uh when you go into it so yeah
17:38 will feel uh when you go into it so yeah
17:38 will feel uh when you go into it so yeah you mentioned being outside in a t-shirt
17:40 you mentioned being outside in a t-shirt
17:40 you mentioned being outside in a t-shirt versus um cold immersion up to the neck
17:42 versus um cold immersion up to the neck
17:43 versus um cold immersion up to the neck versus shower I think um this is
17:44 versus shower I think um this is
17:44 versus shower I think um this is something a lot of people wonder about
17:46 something a lot of people wonder about
17:46 something a lot of people wonder about what are the differences in terms of
17:47 what are the differences in terms of
17:48 what are the differences in terms of impact short-term and perhaps even long
17:50 impact short-term and perhaps even long
17:50 impact short-term and perhaps even long term between cold showers cold plunge to
17:54 term between cold showers cold plunge to
17:54 term between cold showers cold plunge to the neck so that could be in ice water
17:56 the neck so that could be in ice water
17:56 the neck so that could be in ice water or just very cold
17:57 or just very cold
17:57 or just very cold water um immersion with dunking one's
18:01 water um immersion with dunking one's
18:01 water um immersion with dunking one's head and then coming up because
18:02 head and then coming up because
18:02 head and then coming up because obviously people have to come up for air
18:04 obviously people have to come up for air
18:04 obviously people have to come up for air at some point and then simply being
18:06 at some point and then simply being
18:06 at some point and then simply being outside on a cold day in shorts and a
18:09 outside on a cold day in shorts and a
18:09 outside on a cold day in shorts and a t-shirt or something of that sort so
18:11 t-shirt or something of that sort so
18:11 t-shirt or something of that sort so there are different outcomes um because
18:14 there are different outcomes um because
18:14 there are different outcomes um because there they are very different uh
18:16 there they are very different uh
18:16 there they are very different uh exposures of the cold to your cold
18:19 exposures of the cold to your cold
18:19 exposures of the cold to your cold receptors in your skin so the more you
18:22 receptors in your skin so the more you
18:22 receptors in your skin so the more you can say you cover your body in the cold
18:24 can say you cover your body in the cold
18:24 can say you cover your body in the cold which you would do in cold water because
18:27 which you would do in cold water because
18:27 which you would do in cold water because there of course cover totally and then
18:29 there of course cover totally and then
18:29 there of course cover totally and then and the molecules are closer to your
18:32 and the molecules are closer to your
18:32 and the molecules are closer to your skin you will have a more potent um
18:34 skin you will have a more potent um
18:34 skin you will have a more potent um activation of all your cat receptors in
18:37 activation of all your cat receptors in
18:37 activation of all your cat receptors in the skin so that one will definitely
18:40 the skin so that one will definitely
18:40 the skin so that one will definitely activate your autonomous nervous system
18:44 activate your autonomous nervous system
18:44 activate your autonomous nervous system more and Rapid H compared to going out
18:46 more and Rapid H compared to going out
18:46 more and Rapid H compared to going out in a t-shirt in the cold wind just go
18:48 in a t-shirt in the cold wind just go
18:48 in a t-shirt in the cold wind just go for a walk um but that is also something
18:51 for a walk um but that is also something
18:51 for a walk um but that is also something that's going to activate your uh
18:54 that's going to activate your uh
18:54 that's going to activate your uh sympathetic nervous system meaning then
18:56 sympathetic nervous system meaning then
18:56 sympathetic nervous system meaning then that you will have an increase in nor
18:58 that you will have an increase in nor
18:58 that you will have an increase in nor panine
18:59 panine
18:59 panine and you will activate something called
19:01 and you will activate something called
19:01 and you will activate something called uh the the brown fat so this is a
19:04 uh the the brown fat so this is a
19:04 uh the the brown fat so this is a healthy kind of fat tissue that we have
19:06 healthy kind of fat tissue that we have
19:06 healthy kind of fat tissue that we have in our body and when you activate that
19:09 in our body and when you activate that
19:09 in our body and when you activate that that's going to um increase your
19:10 that's going to um increase your
19:10 that's going to um increase your metabolism before we talk about Brown
19:12 metabolism before we talk about Brown
19:12 metabolism before we talk about Brown fat and I'm so glad you brought it up um
19:14 fat and I'm so glad you brought it up um
19:14 fat and I'm so glad you brought it up um because so much to talk about there uh
19:17 because so much to talk about there uh
19:17 because so much to talk about there uh what about cold shower I mean obviously
19:18 what about cold shower I mean obviously
19:18 what about cold shower I mean obviously cold shower is somewhere in between yeah
19:21 cold shower is somewhere in between yeah
19:21 cold shower is somewhere in between yeah um being out outside in the Air Cold Air
19:24 um being out outside in the Air Cold Air
19:25 um being out outside in the Air Cold Air versus uh being immersed up to the neck
19:27 versus uh being immersed up to the neck
19:27 versus uh being immersed up to the neck if we had more studies on on cold
19:29 if we had more studies on on cold
19:29 if we had more studies on on cold showers we would learn more about how
19:31 showers we would learn more about how
19:31 showers we would learn more about how does that activate our metabolism how
19:33 does that activate our metabolism how
19:33 does that activate our metabolism how does that increase our neurotransmitters
19:36 does that increase our neurotransmitters
19:36 does that increase our neurotransmitters in the brain which could also have an
19:38 in the brain which could also have an
19:38 in the brain which could also have an impact our on our mental balance so I
19:41 impact our on our mental balance so I
19:41 impact our on our mental balance so I think that would be interesting for the
19:42 think that would be interesting for the
19:42 think that would be interesting for the future um but what we do know is from
19:45 future um but what we do know is from
19:45 future um but what we do know is from from from activating Brown fat and both
19:50 from from activating Brown fat and both
19:50 from from activating Brown fat and both from rodent St studies but also in
19:52 from rodent St studies but also in
19:52 from rodent St studies but also in humans is that as soon as we get cold on
19:55 humans is that as soon as we get cold on
19:55 humans is that as soon as we get cold on our skin we will activate our Brown fat
19:58 our skin we will activate our Brown fat
19:58 our skin we will activate our Brown fat so it is is kind of like our first
19:59 so it is is kind of like our first
19:59 so it is is kind of like our first responder in in the body to keep uh our
20:03 responder in in the body to keep uh our
20:03 responder in in the body to keep uh our um temperature up so our muscles is like
20:06 um temperature up so our muscles is like
20:06 um temperature up so our muscles is like the second tissue in our body we have
20:08 the second tissue in our body we have
20:08 the second tissue in our body we have two tissues which can increase our
20:10 two tissues which can increase our
20:10 two tissues which can increase our thermogenesis so the brown fat which is
20:13 thermogenesis so the brown fat which is
20:13 thermogenesis so the brown fat which is like always like temperature regulating
20:15 like always like temperature regulating
20:15 like always like temperature regulating our body and then we have uh the the
20:18 our body and then we have uh the the
20:18 our body and then we have uh the the muscles which will secondarily H start
20:20 muscles which will secondarily H start
20:20 muscles which will secondarily H start to shiver and that's going to increase
20:22 to shiver and that's going to increase
20:22 to shiver and that's going to increase our um temperature in the body but as
20:25 our um temperature in the body but as
20:25 our um temperature in the body but as soon as you go into a cold shower you
20:27 soon as you go into a cold shower you
20:27 soon as you go into a cold shower you will activate your fat also immediately
20:30 will activate your fat also immediately
20:30 will activate your fat also immediately so it could be good also for increasing
20:33 so it could be good also for increasing
20:33 so it could be good also for increasing metabolism in theory because we haven't
20:35 metabolism in theory because we haven't
20:35 metabolism in theory because we haven't really any studies showing how much does
20:38 really any studies showing how much does
20:38 really any studies showing how much does it actually activate the brown fat so if
20:40 it actually activate the brown fat so if
20:40 it actually activate the brown fat so if someone out there wants to do a study on
20:42 someone out there wants to do a study on
20:42 someone out there wants to do a study on that great I've thought about why there
20:44 that great I've thought about why there
20:44 that great I've thought about why there are fewer studies of cold showers than
20:46 are fewer studies of cold showers than
20:46 are fewer studies of cold showers than cold immersion and I think the answer to
20:48 cold immersion and I think the answer to
20:48 cold immersion and I think the answer to my mind is that from a methodological
20:51 my mind is that from a methodological
20:51 my mind is that from a methodological standpoint it's just harder to do
20:52 standpoint it's just harder to do
20:52 standpoint it's just harder to do because if people are getting into cold
20:55 because if people are getting into cold
20:55 because if people are getting into cold water up to the neck they're getting
20:57 water up to the neck they're getting
20:57 water up to the neck they're getting into cold water up to the the neck
20:58 into cold water up to the the neck
20:58 into cold water up to the the neck whereas if people are getting into a
21:00 whereas if people are getting into a
21:00 whereas if people are getting into a cold shower some people are larger or
21:02 cold shower some people are larger or
21:02 cold shower some people are larger or smaller some people are going to stand
21:03 smaller some people are going to stand
21:03 smaller some people are going to stand under the shower with it hitting their
21:05 under the shower with it hitting their
21:05 under the shower with it hitting their head some people the back of the neck
21:06 head some people the back of the neck
21:06 head some people the back of the neck you could direct people to do it yeah
21:08 you could direct people to do it yeah
21:08 you could direct people to do it yeah but it's a little bit um more difficult
21:10 but it's a little bit um more difficult
21:10 but it's a little bit um more difficult also I think uh for you and I are both
21:13 also I think uh for you and I are both
21:13 also I think uh for you and I are both research scientists there's a little bit
21:15 research scientists there's a little bit
21:15 research scientists there's a little bit of a um methological challenge that
21:18 of a um methological challenge that
21:18 of a um methological challenge that might seem silly to people but it's a
21:19 might seem silly to people but it's a
21:19 might seem silly to people but it's a real one which is if people are in a
21:20 real one which is if people are in a
21:20 real one which is if people are in a cold shower also the water is going to
21:22 cold shower also the water is going to
21:22 cold shower also the water is going to be I'm kind of pushing their clothing
21:24 be I'm kind of pushing their clothing
21:24 be I'm kind of pushing their clothing against their skin there's a certain
21:25 against their skin there's a certain
21:25 against their skin there's a certain vulnerability in uh for most people um
21:28 vulnerability in uh for most people um
21:28 vulnerability in uh for most people um coming to a laboratory in the first
21:30 coming to a laboratory in the first
21:30 coming to a laboratory in the first place let alone being observed while
21:31 place let alone being observed while
21:31 place let alone being observed while they shower whereas when you get into
21:33 they shower whereas when you get into
21:33 they shower whereas when you get into cold IM cold immersion you're getting
21:35 cold IM cold immersion you're getting
21:35 cold IM cold immersion you're getting under the water and you know some people
21:37 under the water and you know some people
21:37 under the water and you know some people might roll their eyes and say okay
21:39 might roll their eyes and say okay
21:39 might roll their eyes and say okay really is that the barrier but you know
21:40 really is that the barrier but you know
21:40 really is that the barrier but you know science exists in these real world
21:42 science exists in these real world
21:42 science exists in these real world contexts and this will vary by culture
21:44 contexts and this will vary by culture
21:44 contexts and this will vary by culture and things of that sort but we run human
21:46 and things of that sort but we run human
21:46 and things of that sort but we run human subjects in my lab and I'll tell you
21:47 subjects in my lab and I'll tell you
21:47 subjects in my lab and I'll tell you just um the process of getting people to
21:49 just um the process of getting people to
21:49 just um the process of getting people to the laboratory and having them Park and
21:51 the laboratory and having them Park and
21:51 the laboratory and having them Park and find the lab and you know it's a whole
21:53 find the lab and you know it's a whole
21:53 find the lab and you know it's a whole new environment with people in lab coats
21:55 new environment with people in lab coats
21:55 new environment with people in lab coats and people moving around and Where's the
21:57 and people moving around and Where's the
21:57 and people moving around and Where's the restroom I mean there's a there's a
21:58 restroom I mean there's a there's a
21:58 restroom I mean there's a there's a certain amount of stress just associated
22:00 certain amount of stress just associated
22:00 certain amount of stress just associated with taking part in a study for most
22:01 with taking part in a study for most
22:02 with taking part in a study for most human subjects so um I uh totally agree
22:05 human subjects so um I uh totally agree
22:05 human subjects so um I uh totally agree however we need more studies of of cold
22:06 however we need more studies of of cold
22:07 however we need more studies of of cold showers it's just a harder environment
22:08 showers it's just a harder environment
22:08 showers it's just a harder environment to control in in my in my mind so it
22:11 to control in in my in my mind so it
22:11 to control in in my in my mind so it sounds like any form of cold to the skin
22:17 sounds like any form of cold to the skin
22:17 sounds like any form of cold to the skin that people register as what you call a
22:20 that people register as what you call a
22:20 that people register as what you call a cold shock or uncomfortable like oh like
22:22 cold shock or uncomfortable like oh like
22:22 cold shock or uncomfortable like oh like this is kind of jarring activates the
22:25 this is kind of jarring activates the
22:25 this is kind of jarring activates the brown fat do we know what the pathway is
22:27 brown fat do we know what the pathway is
22:27 brown fat do we know what the pathway is from cold receptor on the skin to the
22:29 from cold receptor on the skin to the
22:29 from cold receptor on the skin to the brown fat I mean how does the brown fat
22:30 brown fat I mean how does the brown fat
22:30 brown fat I mean how does the brown fat know that we're cold yeah really good
22:33 know that we're cold yeah really good
22:33 know that we're cold yeah really good question and it seems that I I think
22:35 question and it seems that I I think
22:35 question and it seems that I I think that of course in the future we will
22:37 that of course in the future we will
22:37 that of course in the future we will know much more about these Pathways but
22:39 know much more about these Pathways but
22:39 know much more about these Pathways but what we do know is that uh the co-
22:41 what we do know is that uh the co-
22:41 what we do know is that uh the co- receptors will send a signal to our
22:43 receptors will send a signal to our
22:43 receptors will send a signal to our temperature regulating Center in in the
22:45 temperature regulating Center in in the
22:45 temperature regulating Center in in the brain so hypothalamus um and that's
22:48 brain so hypothalamus um and that's
22:48 brain so hypothalamus um and that's going to be um taking in this message
22:51 going to be um taking in this message
22:51 going to be um taking in this message and we have so many C receptors in the
22:53 and we have so many C receptors in the
22:53 and we have so many C receptors in the skin so it's going to be very fast as
22:55 skin so it's going to be very fast as
22:55 skin so it's going to be very fast as you can say if you immers the body into
22:57 you can say if you immers the body into
22:57 you can say if you immers the body into cold water this is going to be so rapid
23:00 cold water this is going to be so rapid
23:00 cold water this is going to be so rapid H so it will have a rapid increase in
23:04 H so it will have a rapid increase in
23:04 H so it will have a rapid increase in neurotransmitters in the brain for no
23:06 neurotransmitters in the brain for no
23:06 neurotransmitters in the brain for no adrenaline adrenaline and cortisol and
23:08 adrenaline adrenaline and cortisol and
23:08 adrenaline adrenaline and cortisol and which is not that much but it's but it's
23:10 which is not that much but it's but it's
23:10 which is not that much but it's but it's still there so you have this increase in
23:13 still there so you have this increase in
23:13 still there so you have this increase in uh no adrenalin which will then
23:15 uh no adrenalin which will then
23:15 uh no adrenalin which will then immediately activate the brown fat um
23:18 immediately activate the brown fat um
23:18 immediately activate the brown fat um because the you can say the activator is
23:21 because the you can say the activator is
23:21 because the you can say the activator is the most potent one cold and no
23:23 the most potent one cold and no
23:23 the most potent one cold and no adrenaline that's going to activate the
23:24 adrenaline that's going to activate the
23:24 adrenaline that's going to activate the bra but there's also a direct pathway
23:27 bra but there's also a direct pathway
23:27 bra but there's also a direct pathway from the C receptor in the skin to the
23:29 from the C receptor in the skin to the
23:29 from the C receptor in the skin to the to the brown fat which really shows that
23:32 to the brown fat which really shows that
23:32 to the brown fat which really shows that if because of these different Pathways
23:34 if because of these different Pathways
23:34 if because of these different Pathways it shows that that it could be that this
23:37 it shows that that it could be that this
23:37 it shows that that it could be that this tissue to keep us warm was
23:40 tissue to keep us warm was
23:40 tissue to keep us warm was was developed in in our evolvement as
23:43 was developed in in our evolvement as
23:44 was developed in in our evolvement as humans to keep us warm and to save us
23:47 humans to keep us warm and to save us
23:47 humans to keep us warm and to save us whenever the temperature on our skin
23:49 whenever the temperature on our skin
23:50 whenever the temperature on our skin varies just a little bit to keep us in
23:52 varies just a little bit to keep us in
23:52 varies just a little bit to keep us in that right homeostatic balance so we
23:55 that right homeostatic balance so we
23:55 that right homeostatic balance so we don't get hypothermic um but also so we
23:58 don't get hypothermic um but also so we
23:58 don't get hypothermic um but also so we don't get hyperthermic but because it
24:00 don't get hyperthermic but because it
24:00 don't get hyperthermic but because it seems that the brown fat is also
24:02 seems that the brown fat is also
24:02 seems that the brown fat is also activated when we get warmer in our skin
24:05 activated when we get warmer in our skin
24:05 activated when we get warmer in our skin so it's also um maybe a temperature
24:07 so it's also um maybe a temperature
24:07 so it's also um maybe a temperature regulator in our in our body but the
24:10 regulator in our in our body but the
24:10 regulator in our in our body but the pathways is different I think it's also
24:12 pathways is different I think it's also
24:12 pathways is different I think it's also a third pathway from directly from the
24:14 a third pathway from directly from the
24:14 a third pathway from directly from the muscles so the brown fat is also
24:17 muscles so the brown fat is also
24:17 muscles so the brown fat is also activated um even though the the muscles
24:19 activated um even though the the muscles
24:19 activated um even though the the muscles are starting to shiver so there's an
24:22 are starting to shiver so there's an
24:22 are starting to shiver so there's an extra pathway that way to keep our uh
24:25 extra pathway that way to keep our uh
24:25 extra pathway that way to keep our uh our temperature up so muscles and brown
24:27 our temperature up so muscles and brown
24:28 our temperature up so muscles and brown fat together to to keep us warm so we
24:30 fat together to to keep us warm so we
24:30 fat together to to keep us warm so we don't uh suffer too much in the in the
24:32 don't uh suffer too much in the in the
24:32 don't uh suffer too much in the in the cold water that's super interesting and
24:34 cold water that's super interesting and
24:34 cold water that's super interesting and what I here you pointing to is the
24:37 what I here you pointing to is the
24:37 what I here you pointing to is the existence of three parallel Pathways and
24:39 existence of three parallel Pathways and
24:39 existence of three parallel Pathways and this notion of parallel Pathways comes
24:40 this notion of parallel Pathways comes
24:41 this notion of parallel Pathways comes up over and over again in biology as you
24:43 up over and over again in biology as you
24:43 up over and over again in biology as you and I know and I I think it's important
24:44 and I know and I I think it's important
24:45 and I know and I I think it's important for people to know about because um as
24:47 for people to know about because um as
24:47 for people to know about because um as you said so so eloquently the when
24:51 you said so so eloquently the when
24:51 you said so so eloquently the when something is very important to our
24:52 something is very important to our
24:52 something is very important to our survival or Andor
24:54 survival or Andor
24:54 survival or Andor Evolution the brain and body uh inst
24:58 Evolution the brain and body uh inst
24:58 Evolution the brain and body uh inst multiple mechanisms for it not just one
25:01 multiple mechanisms for it not just one
25:01 multiple mechanisms for it not just one and um and so it sounds like it's cold
25:03 and um and so it sounds like it's cold
25:03 and um and so it sounds like it's cold skin cold on the skin triggers a
25:07 skin cold on the skin triggers a
25:07 skin cold on the skin triggers a response in the hypothalamus which then
25:08 response in the hypothalamus which then
25:08 response in the hypothalamus which then activates Brown fat cold receptors in
25:11 activates Brown fat cold receptors in
25:11 activates Brown fat cold receptors in the skin directly to the brown fat and
25:13 the skin directly to the brown fat and
25:13 the skin directly to the brown fat and then shivering in the muscle to the
25:15 then shivering in the muscle to the
25:15 then shivering in the muscle to the brown fat um I want to talk about Brown
25:18 brown fat um I want to talk about Brown
25:18 brown fat um I want to talk about Brown fat in depth and learn from you more
25:21 fat in depth and learn from you more
25:21 fat in depth and learn from you more about Brown fat um before that however I
25:24 about Brown fat um before that however I
25:24 about Brown fat um before that however I want to ask about shiver um I've heard
25:28 want to ask about shiver um I've heard
25:28 want to ask about shiver um I've heard that shiver causes the release of
25:31 that shiver causes the release of
25:31 that shiver causes the release of succinate um which then activates the
25:35 succinate um which then activates the
25:35 succinate um which then activates the brown fat is it known whether or not
25:37 brown fat is it known whether or not
25:37 brown fat is it known whether or not inducing shiver is important and when
25:40 inducing shiver is important and when
25:40 inducing shiver is important and when should PE people Shiver I mean I've
25:42 should PE people Shiver I mean I've
25:42 should PE people Shiver I mean I've gotten into cold plunges and shivered
25:43 gotten into cold plunges and shivered
25:43 gotten into cold plunges and shivered while I was in there and then I've also
25:45 while I was in there and then I've also
25:45 while I was in there and then I've also had the
25:46 had the
25:46 had the experience of getting into a cold
25:48 experience of getting into a cold
25:49 experience of getting into a cold plunger a cold shower then getting out
25:51 plunger a cold shower then getting out
25:51 plunger a cold shower then getting out when even standing outside on a warm day
25:53 when even standing outside on a warm day
25:53 when even standing outside on a warm day after swimming in a pool and then
25:54 after swimming in a pool and then
25:54 after swimming in a pool and then starting to shiver so the shiver comes
25:56 starting to shiver so the shiver comes
25:56 starting to shiver so the shiver comes later so how important is shiver and
25:58 later so how important is shiver and
25:58 later so how important is shiver and does it matter when shiver
26:01 does it matter when shiver
26:01 does it matter when shiver happens yeah well shivering is is good
26:03 happens yeah well shivering is is good
26:03 happens yeah well shivering is is good because that increases your metabolism
26:05 because that increases your metabolism
26:05 because that increases your metabolism and that's going to burn some calories
26:07 and that's going to burn some calories
26:07 and that's going to burn some calories in your body you shouldn't be so afraid
26:09 in your body you shouldn't be so afraid
26:09 in your body you shouldn't be so afraid of shivering I think because the
26:10 of shivering I think because the
26:10 of shivering I think because the Shivering as long as you don't get too
26:13 Shivering as long as you don't get too
26:13 Shivering as long as you don't get too hypothermic so if you don't if you don't
26:15 hypothermic so if you don't if you don't
26:15 hypothermic so if you don't if you don't sit in the cold water for too long um
26:18 sit in the cold water for too long um
26:18 sit in the cold water for too long um and what you just said by shivering
26:20 and what you just said by shivering
26:20 and what you just said by shivering after you get up that is because of the
26:22 after you get up that is because of the
26:22 after you get up that is because of the after drop something called the after
26:24 after drop something called the after
26:24 after drop something called the after drop is when your core temperature uh
26:26 drop is when your core temperature uh
26:26 drop is when your core temperature uh decreases even after you get out of the
26:28 decreases even after you get out of the
26:28 decreases even after you get out of the cold water and it always does that um
26:31 cold water and it always does that um
26:31 cold water and it always does that um your body because it as soon as you get
26:33 your body because it as soon as you get
26:33 your body because it as soon as you get into the cold water all the your blood
26:36 into the cold water all the your blood
26:36 into the cold water all the your blood vessels is going to constrict because
26:38 vessels is going to constrict because
26:38 vessels is going to constrict because you need to keep your blood in your core
26:41 you need to keep your blood in your core
26:41 you need to keep your blood in your core and and keep your vital organs warm so
26:44 and and keep your vital organs warm so
26:44 and and keep your vital organs warm so as soon as you get up that those blood
26:46 as soon as you get up that those blood
26:46 as soon as you get up that those blood vessel will open again and the warm
26:48 vessel will open again and the warm
26:48 vessel will open again and the warm blood will flow out and get colder and
26:51 blood will flow out and get colder and
26:51 blood will flow out and get colder and then flow back again into the core and
26:53 then flow back again into the core and
26:53 then flow back again into the core and that's going to decrease the temperature
26:55 that's going to decrease the temperature
26:55 that's going to decrease the temperature in your core of course so that's the
26:57 in your core of course so that's the
26:57 in your core of course so that's the drop so that's the got it I'm so glad
26:59 drop so that's the got it I'm so glad
26:59 drop so that's the got it I'm so glad you explained that I've heard um years
27:01 you explained that I've heard um years
27:01 you explained that I've heard um years ago whm Hof I heard him talk about the
27:03 ago whm Hof I heard him talk about the
27:03 ago whm Hof I heard him talk about the drop and I've heard colleagues of mine
27:05 drop and I've heard colleagues of mine
27:05 drop and I've heard colleagues of mine talk about the drop that's the first
27:06 talk about the drop that's the first
27:06 talk about the drop that's the first time I've ever heard it explained
27:08 time I've ever heard it explained
27:08 time I've ever heard it explained clearly let me let me make sure I
27:09 clearly let me let me make sure I
27:09 clearly let me let me make sure I understand this so um I get into cold
27:11 understand this so um I get into cold
27:11 understand this so um I get into cold water obviously I'm cold vessels
27:15 water obviously I'm cold vessels
27:15 water obviously I'm cold vessels constrict to keep blood near the center
27:17 constrict to keep blood near the center
27:17 constrict to keep blood near the center of my body keep me alive I get
27:20 of my body keep me alive I get
27:20 of my body keep me alive I get out
27:21 out
27:21 out the warming up of my body allows those
27:24 the warming up of my body allows those
27:24 the warming up of my body allows those vessels and capillaries to dilate again
27:26 vessels and capillaries to dilate again
27:26 vessels and capillaries to dilate again the blood goes out to the surface but
27:27 the blood goes out to the surface but
27:27 the blood goes out to the surface but the surface is still cold and so that
27:31 the surface is still cold and so that
27:31 the surface is still cold and so that blood is cooled and then my core body
27:33 blood is cooled and then my core body
27:33 blood is cooled and then my core body temperature drops and that's what you're
27:35 temperature drops and that's what you're
27:35 temperature drops and that's what you're referring to as the drop and that's what
27:36 referring to as the drop and that's what
27:37 referring to as the drop and that's what induces shiver exactly great and then am
27:39 induces shiver exactly great and then am
27:39 induces shiver exactly great and then am I right in thinking that then the shiver
27:41 I right in thinking that then the shiver
27:41 I right in thinking that then the shiver activates Brown fat which then warms me
27:43 activates Brown fat which then warms me
27:43 activates Brown fat which then warms me up again yes got it that's why you
27:45 up again yes got it that's why you
27:45 up again yes got it that's why you should end on the cold but we can get
27:47 should end on the cold but we can get
27:47 should end on the cold but we can get back to that yeah let's talk about yes
27:49 back to that yeah let's talk about yes
27:49 back to that yeah let's talk about yes ending on cold is um you know it's what
27:51 ending on cold is um you know it's what
27:51 ending on cold is um you know it's what I refer to as and what has now become
27:53 I refer to as and what has now become
27:53 I refer to as and what has now become known as the soberg principle which is
27:56 known as the soberg principle which is
27:56 known as the soberg principle which is um a really important principle about
27:57 um a really important principle about
27:57 um a really important principle about the importance of ending on cold um and
28:00 the importance of ending on cold um and
28:00 the importance of ending on cold um and not doing what I do which is to get into
28:02 not doing what I do which is to get into
28:02 not doing what I do which is to get into a hot shower or or back in the Sun but
28:04 a hot shower or or back in the Sun but
28:04 a hot shower or or back in the Sun but we we'll get back to that in in a few
28:05 we we'll get back to that in in a few
28:05 we we'll get back to that in in a few minutes so um that's wonderful um that
28:09 minutes so um that's wonderful um that
28:09 minutes so um that's wonderful um that you can explain that so clearly because
28:11 you can explain that so clearly because
28:11 you can explain that so clearly because I think that shiver is something that a
28:13 I think that shiver is something that a
28:13 I think that shiver is something that a lot of people do avoid people think oh I
28:15 lot of people do avoid people think oh I
28:15 lot of people do avoid people think oh I don't want the you know the chattering
28:17 don't want the you know the chattering
28:17 don't want the you know the chattering of the teeth and um and it feels like a
28:20 of the teeth and um and it feels like a
28:20 of the teeth and um and it feels like a loss of bodily control which really it
28:21 loss of bodily control which really it
28:21 loss of bodily control which really it is it's it's an autonomic response yeah
28:24 is it's it's an autonomic response yeah
28:24 is it's it's an autonomic response yeah but I don't think that people should
28:25 but I don't think that people should
28:25 but I don't think that people should should avoid it that much it's just like
28:28 should avoid it that much it's just like
28:28 should avoid it that much it's just like seeing shivering as a way of your body
28:31 seeing shivering as a way of your body
28:31 seeing shivering as a way of your body in the in a like it's training it's
28:33 in the in a like it's training it's
28:33 in the in a like it's training it's training for your for all your cells
28:34 training for your for all your cells
28:34 training for your for all your cells it's training for your muscles it's
28:36 it's training for your muscles it's
28:36 it's training for your muscles it's training off your metabolism and that's
28:38 training off your metabolism and that's
28:38 training off your metabolism and that's going to increase your What's called the
28:40 going to increase your What's called the
28:40 going to increase your What's called the insulin sensitivity so if you can like
28:43 insulin sensitivity so if you can like
28:43 insulin sensitivity so if you can like in your mind get used to the thought of
28:46 in your mind get used to the thought of
28:47 in your mind get used to the thought of shivering is just like when you go
28:49 shivering is just like when you go
28:49 shivering is just like when you go exercising in the training center and
28:51 exercising in the training center and
28:51 exercising in the training center and get that feeling of like oh this is
28:52 get that feeling of like oh this is
28:52 get that feeling of like oh this is tough now it hurts a little bit yeah
28:54 tough now it hurts a little bit yeah
28:54 tough now it hurts a little bit yeah it's going to hurt because that's what
28:56 it's going to hurt because that's what
28:56 it's going to hurt because that's what shivering also does but just a different
28:58 shivering also does but just a different
28:58 shivering also does but just a different way of training your cells in your body
29:01 way of training your cells in your body
29:01 way of training your cells in your body it's going to create what is healthy
29:02 it's going to create what is healthy
29:02 it's going to create what is healthy stress it's called hesis in the cells
29:04 stress it's called hesis in the cells
29:04 stress it's called hesis in the cells and the more you expose your your muscle
29:07 and the more you expose your your muscle
29:07 and the more you expose your your muscle cells or your brown fat cells to these
29:09 cells or your brown fat cells to these
29:09 cells or your brown fat cells to these kind of like healthy stresses exercise
29:11 kind of like healthy stresses exercise
29:11 kind of like healthy stresses exercise cold and heat exposure it's going to
29:14 cold and heat exposure it's going to
29:14 cold and heat exposure it's going to make them uh better at like activating
29:17 make them uh better at like activating
29:17 make them uh better at like activating and also um at keeping you healthy so as
29:20 and also um at keeping you healthy so as
29:20 and also um at keeping you healthy so as long as the the cells get exposed to
29:22 long as the the cells get exposed to
29:22 long as the the cells get exposed to this it's going to keep them on its toes
29:25 this it's going to keep them on its toes
29:25 this it's going to keep them on its toes you can say because it becomes more
29:26 you can say because it becomes more
29:27 you can say because it becomes more robust um increasing these heat shock
29:30 robust um increasing these heat shock
29:30 robust um increasing these heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins in the
29:32 proteins and cold shock proteins in the
29:32 proteins and cold shock proteins in the cells to um make you more robust for the
29:36 cells to um make you more robust for the
29:36 cells to um make you more robust for the next time and that is also what happens
29:38 next time and that is also what happens
29:38 next time and that is also what happens when you go to the training center and I
29:40 when you go to the training center and I
29:40 when you go to the training center and I keep like do drawing that paralen
29:42 keep like do drawing that paralen
29:42 keep like do drawing that paralen because people today know more about we
29:45 because people today know more about we
29:45 because people today know more about we know more about exercise and what that's
29:48 know more about exercise and what that's
29:48 know more about exercise and what that's is going to do to your muscle cells um
29:50 is going to do to your muscle cells um
29:50 is going to do to your muscle cells um and but the same kind of like training
29:53 and but the same kind of like training
29:53 and but the same kind of like training is also what you do when you go out and
29:56 is also what you do when you go out and
29:56 is also what you do when you go out and and into the cold water and submergent
29:58 and into the cold water and submergent
29:58 and into the cold water and submergent into cold water because that is just
30:00 into cold water because that is just
30:00 into cold water because that is just your cold training center you can say
30:02 your cold training center you can say
30:02 your cold training center you can say that and and also your heat Training
30:04 that and and also your heat Training
30:04 that and and also your heat Training Center going into the sauna because the
30:05 Center going into the sauna because the
30:06 Center going into the sauna because the cells are getting stronger with hortic
30:08 cells are getting stronger with hortic
30:08 cells are getting stronger with hortic stress so it's the same process just
30:10 stress so it's the same process just
30:10 stress so it's the same process just different
30:11 different
30:11 different practices I'm so glad that you brought
30:13 practices I'm so glad that you brought
30:13 practices I'm so glad that you brought up the fact that the discomfort or the
30:16 up the fact that the discomfort or the
30:16 up the fact that the discomfort or the embarrassment or both of shiver is still
30:19 embarrassment or both of shiver is still
30:19 embarrassment or both of shiver is still crucial to uh actually to reach for and
30:22 crucial to uh actually to reach for and
30:22 crucial to uh actually to reach for and try and experience the same way that
30:23 try and experience the same way that
30:23 try and experience the same way that with exercise um I think a lot of people
30:26 with exercise um I think a lot of people
30:26 with exercise um I think a lot of people don't realize this but when we did our
30:27 don't realize this but when we did our
30:27 don't realize this but when we did our series with Dr Andy Galpin it became
30:30 series with Dr Andy Galpin it became
30:30 series with Dr Andy Galpin it became clear to me what should have already
30:31 clear to me what should have already
30:31 clear to me what should have already been clear to me and I think that most
30:33 been clear to me and I think that most
30:33 been clear to me and I think that most people don't realize which is that if we
30:35 people don't realize which is that if we
30:35 people don't realize which is that if we were to measure um heart rate blood
30:37 were to measure um heart rate blood
30:37 were to measure um heart rate blood pressure um stress hormones and
30:40 pressure um stress hormones and
30:40 pressure um stress hormones and inflammation in a human being during
30:43 inflammation in a human being during
30:43 inflammation in a human being during exercise it would look as if they were
30:45 exercise it would look as if they were
30:45 exercise it would look as if they were ready to die blood pressure would be
30:47 ready to die blood pressure would be
30:47 ready to die blood pressure would be high inflammation is through the roof
30:48 high inflammation is through the roof
30:48 high inflammation is through the roof but all of that is setting in motion and
30:50 but all of that is setting in motion and
30:51 but all of that is setting in motion and AD adaptation or set of adaptations that
30:53 AD adaptation or set of adaptations that
30:53 AD adaptation or set of adaptations that allow blood pressure to be lower at rest
30:56 allow blood pressure to be lower at rest
30:56 allow blood pressure to be lower at rest that allow um inflammation markers to be
30:58 that allow um inflammation markers to be
30:58 that allow um inflammation markers to be lower at rest all the things that
31:00 lower at rest all the things that
31:00 lower at rest all the things that everybody is seeking with exercise and
31:02 everybody is seeking with exercise and
31:02 everybody is seeking with exercise and in addition to of course the aesthetic
31:03 in addition to of course the aesthetic
31:03 in addition to of course the aesthetic changes that people are seeking with
31:04 changes that people are seeking with
31:04 changes that people are seeking with exercise sounds like the exact same
31:06 exercise sounds like the exact same
31:06 exercise sounds like the exact same things are happening with the cold so um
31:08 things are happening with the cold so um
31:08 things are happening with the cold so um the Redundant message here seems to be
31:10 the Redundant message here seems to be
31:10 the Redundant message here seems to be that the more discomfort provided it's
31:13 that the more discomfort provided it's
31:14 that the more discomfort provided it's done safely just like with exercise the
31:16 done safely just like with exercise the
31:16 done safely just like with exercise the more
31:17 more
31:17 more shivering the um the more cold shock
31:20 shivering the um the more cold shock
31:20 shivering the um the more cold shock provided it's not to the extreme and
31:22 provided it's not to the extreme and
31:22 provided it's not to the extreme and stop somebody's heart right we can talk
31:24 stop somebody's heart right we can talk
31:24 stop somebody's heart right we can talk about thresholds for that a little bit
31:26 about thresholds for that a little bit
31:26 about thresholds for that a little bit later it sounds like all all of that is
31:28 later it sounds like all all of that is
31:28 later it sounds like all all of that is going to set in motion some long-term
31:30 going to set in motion some long-term
31:30 going to set in motion some long-term changes that will make people feel
31:32 changes that will make people feel
31:32 changes that will make people feel better and will improve health could you
31:34 better and will improve health could you
31:34 better and will improve health could you just touch on a few of the longer term
31:37 just touch on a few of the longer term
31:37 just touch on a few of the longer term changes that are known to occur I mean
31:40 changes that are known to occur I mean
31:40 changes that are known to occur I mean I'm well aware of the study showing that
31:42 I'm well aware of the study showing that
31:42 I'm well aware of the study showing that uh I think it was European Journal
31:44 uh I think it was European Journal
31:44 uh I think it was European Journal physiology it was uh the European
31:46 physiology it was uh the European
31:46 physiology it was uh the European Journal physiology showing long lasting
31:48 Journal physiology showing long lasting
31:48 Journal physiology showing long lasting increases in catac colomines dopamine
31:50 increases in catac colomines dopamine
31:50 increases in catac colomines dopamine norepinephrine and um epinephrine for
31:52 norepinephrine and um epinephrine for
31:52 norepinephrine and um epinephrine for many hours after deliberate cold
31:54 many hours after deliberate cold
31:54 many hours after deliberate cold exposure what are some of the other
31:56 exposure what are some of the other
31:56 exposure what are some of the other things that happen at the level of
31:58 things that happen at the level of
31:58 things that happen at the level of metabolism and brown fat in let's say
32:00 metabolism and brown fat in let's say
32:00 metabolism and brown fat in let's say the hours and um day after deliberate
32:03 the hours and um day after deliberate
32:03 the hours and um day after deliberate cold
32:04 cold
32:04 cold exposure as soon as you go in of course
32:06 exposure as soon as you go in of course
32:06 exposure as soon as you go in of course there's an activation but it seems like
32:08 there's an activation but it seems like
32:08 there's an activation but it seems like no you're asking for the the later
32:10 no you're asking for the the later
32:10 no you're asking for the the later outcomes like blood pressure and stuff
32:12 outcomes like blood pressure and stuff
32:12 outcomes like blood pressure and stuff like that is that what you mean yeah
32:13 like that is that what you mean yeah
32:13 like that is that what you mean yeah blood pressure but also in terms of
32:15 blood pressure but also in terms of
32:15 blood pressure but also in terms of metabolism I know that you know in your
32:16 metabolism I know that you know in your
32:17 metabolism I know that you know in your study you should and we'll talk about
32:18 study you should and we'll talk about
32:18 study you should and we'll talk about Brown fat in depth here in a moment but
32:20 Brown fat in depth here in a moment but
32:20 Brown fat in depth here in a moment but that there were changes to the brown fat
32:23 that there were changes to the brown fat
32:23 that there were changes to the brown fat that equate to changes in for instance
32:26 that equate to changes in for instance
32:26 that equate to changes in for instance people's ability to be comfor able in
32:28 people's ability to be comfor able in
32:29 people's ability to be comfor able in colder environments when they're not
32:30 colder environments when they're not
32:30 colder environments when they're not doing deliberate cold exposure or in the
32:32 doing deliberate cold exposure or in the
32:32 doing deliberate cold exposure or in the same way that I can um exercise on an
32:34 same way that I can um exercise on an
32:34 same way that I can um exercise on an exercise bike or go out for a hard run
32:36 exercise bike or go out for a hard run
32:36 exercise bike or go out for a hard run but then if I go hiking uh with the
32:38 but then if I go hiking uh with the
32:38 but then if I go hiking uh with the family on Sunday and it's a steep climb
32:41 family on Sunday and it's a steep climb
32:41 family on Sunday and it's a steep climb I could do that steep climb more easily
32:42 I could do that steep climb more easily
32:42 I could do that steep climb more easily because I'm quote unquote fit as a
32:44 because I'm quote unquote fit as a
32:44 because I'm quote unquote fit as a consequence of the of the exercise what
32:46 consequence of the of the exercise what
32:46 consequence of the of the exercise what are some what are some of the fitness
32:48 are some what are some of the fitness
32:48 are some what are some of the fitness adaptations of deliberate cold exposure
32:51 adaptations of deliberate cold exposure
32:51 adaptations of deliberate cold exposure yeah so what happens is that you you get
32:55 yeah so what happens is that you you get
32:55 yeah so what happens is that you you get adapted a little bit every time you go
32:57 adapted a little bit every time you go
32:57 adapted a little bit every time you go so you will like exercise get a Little
32:59 so you will like exercise get a Little
32:59 so you will like exercise get a Little Bit Stronger so every time you go into
33:01 Bit Stronger so every time you go into
33:01 Bit Stronger so every time you go into the cold water for every time you will
33:03 the cold water for every time you will
33:03 the cold water for every time you will be more exposed to it you will you feel
33:06 be more exposed to it you will you feel
33:06 be more exposed to it you will you feel more comfortable in the cold so you
33:07 more comfortable in the cold so you
33:07 more comfortable in the cold so you going to you're going to build your
33:08 going to you're going to build your
33:09 going to you're going to build your adaptation which happens on a metabolic
33:11 adaptation which happens on a metabolic
33:11 adaptation which happens on a metabolic level which is going to be the brown fat
33:13 level which is going to be the brown fat
33:13 level which is going to be the brown fat so you have more activation of your
33:15 so you have more activation of your
33:15 so you have more activation of your brown fat the mitochondria in the the
33:17 brown fat the mitochondria in the the
33:17 brown fat the mitochondria in the the brown fat cells are going to be um
33:19 brown fat cells are going to be um
33:19 brown fat cells are going to be um you'll have more of those and they will
33:21 you'll have more of those and they will
33:21 you'll have more of those and they will be more efficient at heating you up
33:23 be more efficient at heating you up
33:23 be more efficient at heating you up because it expects the body expects you
33:25 because it expects the body expects you
33:25 because it expects the body expects you to to do this again so you are prepared
33:27 to to do this again so you are prepared
33:27 to to do this again so you are prepared in a way the capillaries in your skin is
33:30 in a way the capillaries in your skin is
33:30 in a way the capillaries in your skin is also will also become better at like
33:33 also will also become better at like
33:33 also will also become better at like constricting so you will have a better
33:36 constricting so you will have a better
33:36 constricting so you will have a better Shield of your body to uh prepare you
33:39 Shield of your body to uh prepare you
33:39 Shield of your body to uh prepare you for the next time so you be become
33:41 for the next time so you be become
33:41 for the next time so you be become better at H going into the cold water in
33:44 better at H going into the cold water in
33:44 better at H going into the cold water in that way so the the body makes these
33:46 that way so the the body makes these
33:46 that way so the the body makes these mechanism and changes your body in a way
33:48 mechanism and changes your body in a way
33:48 mechanism and changes your body in a way so you can expose yourself to the next
33:50 so you can expose yourself to the next
33:50 so you can expose yourself to the next time right and uh and also you will have
33:53 time right and uh and also you will have
33:53 time right and uh and also you will have um also a your um stress response will
33:57 um also a your um stress response will
33:57 um also a your um stress response will also be subside a bit so you will have a
34:00 also be subside a bit so you will have a
34:00 also be subside a bit so you will have a less increase of your uh catac colomines
34:03 less increase of your uh catac colomines
34:03 less increase of your uh catac colomines um with time with time also you will
34:06 um with time with time also you will
34:06 um with time with time also you will have because of this activation of your
34:09 have because of this activation of your
34:09 have because of this activation of your uh Brown fat or your muscles you will
34:11 uh Brown fat or your muscles you will
34:11 uh Brown fat or your muscles you will have an increase in um uh in in your
34:14 have an increase in um uh in in your
34:14 have an increase in um uh in in your metabolism which will then make your
34:16 metabolism which will then make your
34:16 metabolism which will then make your insulin sensitivity uh better and this
34:18 insulin sensitivity uh better and this
34:18 insulin sensitivity uh better and this is shown in in studies for example um
34:21 is shown in in studies for example um
34:21 is shown in in studies for example um there's this interesting study I found
34:23 there's this interesting study I found
34:23 there's this interesting study I found just before I I started my PhD which was
34:26 just before I I started my PhD which was
34:26 just before I I started my PhD which was from um keeper stor
34:28 from um keeper stor
34:28 from um keeper stor um at L from 2016 where they measured um
34:33 um at L from 2016 where they measured um
34:33 um at L from 2016 where they measured um metabolism not in not on Brown fat but
34:36 metabolism not in not on Brown fat but
34:36 metabolism not in not on Brown fat but they measured insulin sensitivity in
34:38 they measured insulin sensitivity in
34:38 they measured insulin sensitivity in middle-aged men and women uh during one
34:41 middle-aged men and women uh during one
34:41 middle-aged men and women uh during one winter swimming season so they were not
34:44 winter swimming season so they were not
34:44 winter swimming season so they were not very young like they were in my study uh
34:46 very young like they were in my study uh
34:46 very young like they were in my study uh but they were they were middle-aged and
34:48 but they were they were middle-aged and
34:48 but they were they were middle-aged and I think this is very interesting so they
34:51 I think this is very interesting so they
34:51 I think this is very interesting so they during these four five months they were
34:52 during these four five months they were
34:52 during these four five months they were winter swimming they saw that they had a
34:54 winter swimming they saw that they had a
34:54 winter swimming they saw that they had a lower blood pressure after the season
34:57 lower blood pressure after the season
34:57 lower blood pressure after the season and they had a lower heart rate and they
34:59 and they had a lower heart rate and they
34:59 and they had a lower heart rate and they also saw that they have a better insulin
35:02 also saw that they have a better insulin
35:02 also saw that they have a better insulin sensitivity and I think that is very
35:04 sensitivity and I think that is very
35:04 sensitivity and I think that is very interesting because if you can have a
35:07 interesting because if you can have a
35:07 interesting because if you can have a better insulin sensitivity you can
35:09 better insulin sensitivity you can
35:09 better insulin sensitivity you can prevent lifestyle diseases so um and
35:12 prevent lifestyle diseases so um and
35:12 prevent lifestyle diseases so um and with lower blood pressure which is a a
35:14 with lower blood pressure which is a a
35:14 with lower blood pressure which is a a very strong outcome also for telling how
35:17 very strong outcome also for telling how
35:17 very strong outcome also for telling how much inflammation you have in the body
35:19 much inflammation you have in the body
35:19 much inflammation you have in the body and because it didn't measure Brown fat
35:22 and because it didn't measure Brown fat
35:22 and because it didn't measure Brown fat um I figured that it could be that was
35:24 um I figured that it could be that was
35:24 um I figured that it could be that was the missing link that was the one of the
35:26 the missing link that was the one of the
35:26 the missing link that was the one of the explanations to why we see this um less
35:30 explanations to why we see this um less
35:30 explanations to why we see this um less inflammation in the body so um the
35:33 inflammation in the body so um the
35:33 inflammation in the body so um the longer outcomes the long-term outcomes
35:35 longer outcomes the long-term outcomes
35:35 longer outcomes the long-term outcomes could be that you lower your blood
35:37 could be that you lower your blood
35:37 could be that you lower your blood pressure and you have a lower heart rate
35:39 pressure and you have a lower heart rate
35:39 pressure and you have a lower heart rate um you also um have a better insulin
35:43 um you also um have a better insulin
35:43 um you also um have a better insulin sensitivity and a better glucose balance
35:45 sensitivity and a better glucose balance
35:45 sensitivity and a better glucose balance but that was shown that is shown in my
35:47 but that was shown that is shown in my
35:47 but that was shown that is shown in my study I'd like to take a quick break and
35:50 study I'd like to take a quick break and
35:50 study I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors athletic
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36:56 vitamin D3 K2 again that's athletic
36:56 vitamin D3 K2 again that's athletic greens.com / huberman to get the five
36:59 greens.com / huberman to get the five
36:59 greens.com / huberman to get the five free travel packs and the year supply of
37:01 free travel packs and the year supply of
37:01 free travel packs and the year supply of vitamin D3 K2 and we'll get back to the
37:04 vitamin D3 K2 and we'll get back to the
37:04 vitamin D3 K2 and we'll get back to the uh insulin sensitivity and glucose
37:06 uh insulin sensitivity and glucose
37:06 uh insulin sensitivity and glucose balance um that's a an impressive list
37:08 balance um that's a an impressive list
37:08 balance um that's a an impressive list of benefits um you know blood pressure
37:12 of benefits um you know blood pressure
37:12 of benefits um you know blood pressure of course most people are aware of blood
37:14 of course most people are aware of blood
37:14 of course most people are aware of blood pressure and what it is it's what they
37:15 pressure and what it is it's what they
37:15 pressure and what it is it's what they measure when we go to the doctor and um
37:18 measure when we go to the doctor and um
37:18 measure when we go to the doctor and um it's not very sexy nowadays you know
37:19 it's not very sexy nowadays you know
37:19 it's not very sexy nowadays you know blood pressure people oh you know blood
37:21 blood pressure people oh you know blood
37:21 blood pressure people oh you know blood pressure it's not you know people want
37:22 pressure it's not you know people want
37:22 pressure it's not you know people want to hear about the inflammatome and the
37:24 to hear about the inflammatome and the
37:24 to hear about the inflammatome and the microbiome and all of that stuff is
37:26 microbiome and all of that stuff is
37:26 microbiome and all of that stuff is really interesting but um I think that
37:28 really interesting but um I think that
37:28 really interesting but um I think that blood pressure doesn't get enough
37:30 blood pressure doesn't get enough
37:31 blood pressure doesn't get enough attention um and we have spoken to on
37:35 attention um and we have spoken to on
37:35 attention um and we have spoken to on this podcast to Dr Peter AA who um is an
37:38 this podcast to Dr Peter AA who um is an
37:38 this podcast to Dr Peter AA who um is an expert in longevity and health span and
37:40 expert in longevity and health span and
37:40 expert in longevity and health span and things of that sort and and I was
37:42 things of that sort and and I was
37:42 things of that sort and and I was surprised to learn again I shouldn't
37:43 surprised to learn again I shouldn't
37:44 surprised to learn again I shouldn't have been surprised that the number one
37:45 have been surprised that the number one
37:46 have been surprised that the number one reason people die worldwide is cerebral
37:49 reason people die worldwide is cerebral
37:49 reason people die worldwide is cerebral vascular disease and cardiovascular
37:50 vascular disease and cardiovascular
37:50 vascular disease and cardiovascular disease and there basically three things
37:52 disease and there basically three things
37:52 disease and there basically three things on the list of things to address one is
37:56 on the list of things to address one is
37:56 on the list of things to address one is not smoking um or vaping by the way not
37:59 not smoking um or vaping by the way not
37:59 not smoking um or vaping by the way not so there are a few other things related
38:01 so there are a few other things related
38:01 so there are a few other things related to blood markers apob and things of that
38:02 to blood markers apob and things of that
38:02 to blood markers apob and things of that sort but then the big one is blood
38:05 sort but then the big one is blood
38:05 sort but then the big one is blood pressure and so it's it's interesting
38:07 pressure and so it's it's interesting
38:07 pressure and so it's it's interesting because we don't think about blood
38:08 because we don't think about blood
38:08 because we don't think about blood pressure that much anymore um as a as
38:11 pressure that much anymore um as a as
38:11 pressure that much anymore um as a as the kind of people interested in health
38:12 the kind of people interested in health
38:12 the kind of people interested in health optimization and health but blood
38:14 optimization and health but blood
38:14 optimization and health but blood pressure is so vital to control so it's
38:17 pressure is so vital to control so it's
38:17 pressure is so vital to control so it's wonderful to hear that deliberate cold
38:19 wonderful to hear that deliberate cold
38:19 wonderful to hear that deliberate cold exposure is one way to control blood
38:22 exposure is one way to control blood
38:22 exposure is one way to control blood pressure I'm guessing in concert with
38:24 pressure I'm guessing in concert with
38:24 pressure I'm guessing in concert with other forms of exercise yeah um
38:27 other forms of exercise yeah um
38:27 other forms of exercise yeah um let's talk about Brown fat and um if you
38:30 let's talk about Brown fat and um if you
38:30 let's talk about Brown fat and um if you if you're willing I'd love to drill into
38:32 if you're willing I'd love to drill into
38:32 if you're willing I'd love to drill into Brown fat at a at a deep level um again
38:36 Brown fat at a at a deep level um again
38:36 Brown fat at a at a deep level um again my understanding of this is is far more
38:38 my understanding of this is is far more
38:38 my understanding of this is is far more Elementary than yours obviously you're
38:41 Elementary than yours obviously you're
38:41 Elementary than yours obviously you're the expert my understanding about Brown
38:43 the expert my understanding about Brown
38:43 the expert my understanding about Brown fat is that it's located in specific
38:46 fat is that it's located in specific
38:46 fat is that it's located in specific areas of our body uh maybe more
38:49 areas of our body uh maybe more
38:49 areas of our body uh maybe more widespread than when I learned in school
38:51 widespread than when I learned in school
38:51 widespread than when I learned in school I thought it was I was taught it was
38:53 I thought it was I was taught it was
38:53 I thought it was I was taught it was just at the clavicles in the back of the
38:54 just at the clavicles in the back of the
38:54 just at the clavicles in the back of the neck and upper back but who knows I
38:56 neck and upper back but who knows I
38:56 neck and upper back but who knows I learned that there's more of it when
38:57 learned that there's more of it when
38:57 learned that there's more of it when we're children maybe more distributed
39:00 we're children maybe more distributed
39:00 we're children maybe more distributed throughout our body and that it's rich
39:02 throughout our body and that it's rich
39:02 throughout our body and that it's rich in mitochondria but what is so special
39:05 in mitochondria but what is so special
39:05 in mitochondria but what is so special about the brown fat like if we could
39:07 about the brown fat like if we could
39:07 about the brown fat like if we could just go into the biology of brown fat a
39:09 just go into the biology of brown fat a
39:09 just go into the biology of brown fat a little bit what does it look like uh
39:11 little bit what does it look like uh
39:11 little bit what does it look like uh you've measured it in human subjects
39:14 you've measured it in human subjects
39:14 you've measured it in human subjects where is it distributed really can it
39:16 where is it distributed really can it
39:16 where is it distributed really can it expand its distribution can we activate
39:19 expand its distribution can we activate
39:19 expand its distribution can we activate and expand the amount of brown fat as
39:22 and expand the amount of brown fat as
39:22 and expand the amount of brown fat as adults and um for those of you that are
39:24 adults and um for those of you that are
39:24 adults and um for those of you that are cringing already thinking we're talking
39:26 cringing already thinking we're talking
39:26 cringing already thinking we're talking about getting fatter it's quite the
39:27 about getting fatter it's quite the
39:27 about getting fatter it's quite the opposite we're talking about not
39:29 opposite we're talking about not
39:29 opposite we're talking about not subcutaneous fat but fat located around
39:31 subcutaneous fat but fat located around
39:31 subcutaneous fat but fat located around the the organs but please educate me um
39:34 the the organs but please educate me um
39:34 the the organs but please educate me um tell me where I'm wrong and um expand my
39:36 tell me where I'm wrong and um expand my
39:36 tell me where I'm wrong and um expand my knowledge on Brown fat okay yeah you are
39:40 knowledge on Brown fat okay yeah you are
39:40 knowledge on Brown fat okay yeah you are not wrong but um it's definit it's true
39:43 not wrong but um it's definit it's true
39:43 not wrong but um it's definit it's true that there are more locations of the
39:45 that there are more locations of the
39:45 that there are more locations of the brown fat than we previously thought um
39:48 brown fat than we previously thought um
39:48 brown fat than we previously thought um there's this very nice study from 2017
39:52 there's this very nice study from 2017
39:52 there's this very nice study from 2017 by Lightner L where they had made these
39:55 by Lightner L where they had made these
39:55 by Lightner L where they had made these PES uh overlays of um their subjects but
39:59 PES uh overlays of um their subjects but
39:59 PES uh overlays of um their subjects but they can see where in the body do we
40:01 they can see where in the body do we
40:01 they can see where in the body do we have brown fat and where can we grow
40:03 have brown fat and where can we grow
40:04 have brown fat and where can we grow more Brown fat um so to say um so the
40:08 more Brown fat um so to say um so the
40:08 more Brown fat um so to say um so the brown fat is can is very plastic so it
40:10 brown fat is can is very plastic so it
40:10 brown fat is can is very plastic so it means that it can it can grow and it can
40:12 means that it can it can grow and it can
40:12 means that it can it can grow and it can decrease and this is proven in in
40:14 decrease and this is proven in in
40:14 decrease and this is proven in in studies where we have seen um um people
40:17 studies where we have seen um um people
40:17 studies where we have seen um um people with the f cryosa is like a very
40:21 with the f cryosa is like a very
40:21 with the f cryosa is like a very specific cancer type where people where
40:24 specific cancer type where people where
40:24 specific cancer type where people where from the 70s where we can see that if
40:27 from the 70s where we can see that if
40:27 from the 70s where we can see that if they have this specific kind of cancer
40:29 they have this specific kind of cancer
40:29 they have this specific kind of cancer type um they have a t they have this
40:31 type um they have a t they have this
40:31 type um they have a t they have this tumor on the adrenal gland so they have
40:34 tumor on the adrenal gland so they have
40:34 tumor on the adrenal gland so they have like a a huge increase in no adrenaline
40:37 like a a huge increase in no adrenaline
40:37 like a a huge increase in no adrenaline and because of that they have this
40:39 and because of that they have this
40:39 and because of that they have this continuous activation of the brown fat
40:42 continuous activation of the brown fat
40:42 continuous activation of the brown fat and they have grown a lot of brown fat
40:44 and they have grown a lot of brown fat
40:44 and they have grown a lot of brown fat in whole body abdomen or where it's
40:47 in whole body abdomen or where it's
40:47 in whole body abdomen or where it's located in these six different places
40:49 located in these six different places
40:49 located in these six different places but it is like very much compared to
40:52 but it is like very much compared to
40:52 but it is like very much compared to like normal people um and what they then
40:55 like normal people um and what they then
40:55 like normal people um and what they then see uh what we learned from the study is
40:57 see uh what we learned from the study is
40:58 see uh what we learned from the study is that brown fat can apparently grow if
41:00 that brown fat can apparently grow if
41:01 that brown fat can apparently grow if you have um an increase in nor
41:03 you have um an increase in nor
41:03 you have um an increase in nor adrenaline in the body it's not like you
41:05 adrenaline in the body it's not like you
41:05 adrenaline in the body it's not like you want that because when that happens you
41:07 want that because when that happens you
41:07 want that because when that happens you have a high blood pressure you don't
41:08 have a high blood pressure you don't
41:08 have a high blood pressure you don't want it chronically right you you just
41:09 want it chronically right you you just
41:09 want it chronically right you you just want it on like a short amount of time
41:12 want it on like a short amount of time
41:12 want it on like a short amount of time and then it can grow for a bit but you
41:14 and then it can grow for a bit but you
41:14 and then it can grow for a bit but you don't want it chronically of course not
41:16 don't want it chronically of course not
41:16 don't want it chronically of course not but because it it activates also your
41:18 but because it it activates also your
41:18 but because it it activates also your sympathetic nervous SYM so they have
41:20 sympathetic nervous SYM so they have
41:20 sympathetic nervous SYM so they have also showed they had high blood pressure
41:22 also showed they had high blood pressure
41:22 also showed they had high blood pressure they had H they lost a lot of weight of
41:25 they had H they lost a lot of weight of
41:25 they had H they lost a lot of weight of course because this is activating your
41:26 course because this is activating your
41:26 course because this is activating your metabol ISM so they they found luckily
41:29 metabol ISM so they they found luckily
41:29 metabol ISM so they they found luckily that when they removed this benign tumor
41:34 that when they removed this benign tumor
41:35 that when they removed this benign tumor H that uh the brown fat um decreases
41:38 H that uh the brown fat um decreases
41:38 H that uh the brown fat um decreases again to normal size and they gain
41:40 again to normal size and they gain
41:40 again to normal size and they gain weight again and they had normal blood
41:42 weight again and they had normal blood
41:42 weight again and they had normal blood pressure so the story ends well but it's
41:45 pressure so the story ends well but it's
41:45 pressure so the story ends well but it's kind of like proof of concept of that
41:46 kind of like proof of concept of that
41:46 kind of like proof of concept of that brown fat can actually grow so it's
41:49 brown fat can actually grow so it's
41:49 brown fat can actually grow so it's plastic in its in its way of like it can
41:51 plastic in its in its way of like it can
41:51 plastic in its in its way of like it can it can grow and it can decrease again so
41:53 it can grow and it can decrease again so
41:53 it can grow and it can decrease again so that's very good good studies to to see
41:56 that's very good good studies to to see
41:56 that's very good good studies to to see what it what what the body is capable of
41:58 what it what what the body is capable of
41:58 what it what what the body is capable of but we don't of course want all that
42:00 but we don't of course want all that
42:00 but we don't of course want all that brown fat we just want it to be um we
42:03 brown fat we just want it to be um we
42:03 brown fat we just want it to be um we just want to keep it actually and and
42:04 just want to keep it actually and and
42:05 just want to keep it actually and and keep it activated because what we see in
42:07 keep it activated because what we see in
42:07 keep it activated because what we see in studies is also that after the age of 40
42:10 studies is also that after the age of 40
42:10 studies is also that after the age of 40 um people um Studies have shown that
42:13 um people um Studies have shown that
42:13 um people um Studies have shown that there is an association with having less
42:15 there is an association with having less
42:15 there is an association with having less brown fat but increased obesity so of
42:18 brown fat but increased obesity so of
42:18 brown fat but increased obesity so of course we we don't know yet whether uh
42:21 course we we don't know yet whether uh
42:21 course we we don't know yet whether uh Brown fat decreases with a and therefore
42:23 Brown fat decreases with a and therefore
42:23 Brown fat decreases with a and therefore we get obese or we get obese and
42:25 we get obese or we get obese and
42:25 we get obese or we get obese and therefore we have less brown fat but as
42:29 therefore we have less brown fat but as
42:29 therefore we have less brown fat but as brown fat is an insulin sensitive organ
42:32 brown fat is an insulin sensitive organ
42:32 brown fat is an insulin sensitive organ in our body and we get obese H just like
42:37 in our body and we get obese H just like
42:37 in our body and we get obese H just like the muscles get less sensitive um
42:39 the muscles get less sensitive um
42:40 the muscles get less sensitive um insulin sensitive the brown fat does as
42:42 insulin sensitive the brown fat does as
42:42 insulin sensitive the brown fat does as well and therefore it maybe decreases it
42:44 well and therefore it maybe decreases it
42:44 well and therefore it maybe decreases it could be a
42:45 could be a
42:45 could be a theory that I think could be one of the
42:48 theory that I think could be one of the
42:48 theory that I think could be one of the reasons why we we don't see that much
42:50 reasons why we we don't see that much
42:50 reasons why we we don't see that much Brown fed in in elderly uh people some
42:53 Brown fed in in elderly uh people some
42:53 Brown fed in in elderly uh people some have a lot especially people working
42:55 have a lot especially people working
42:55 have a lot especially people working outside that there are study showing
42:57 outside that there are study showing
42:57 outside that there are study showing this who people who um work outside do
43:00 this who people who um work outside do
43:00 this who people who um work outside do physical work outside farmers and um
43:03 physical work outside farmers and um
43:03 physical work outside farmers and um interesting yeah Expos themselves to it
43:05 interesting yeah Expos themselves to it
43:05 interesting yeah Expos themselves to it so they'll just keep it in that way it's
43:09 so they'll just keep it in that way it's
43:09 so they'll just keep it in that way it's um and I suppose we should um clarify
43:12 um and I suppose we should um clarify
43:12 um and I suppose we should um clarify for people in case they don't know that
43:14 for people in case they don't know that
43:14 for people in case they don't know that insulin sensitivity is a very good thing
43:17 insulin sensitivity is a very good thing
43:17 insulin sensitivity is a very good thing you want that you want yourselves to be
43:19 you want that you want yourselves to be
43:19 you want that you want yourselves to be sensitive to insulin um insulin
43:20 sensitive to insulin um insulin
43:20 sensitive to insulin um insulin insensitivity is type two diabetes um
43:24 insensitivity is type two diabetes um
43:24 insensitivity is type two diabetes um and is associated with obesity um so
43:26 and is associated with obesity um so
43:26 and is associated with obesity um so just uh point clarification there uh
43:29 just uh point clarification there uh
43:29 just uh point clarification there uh yeah it's interesting to me I I I
43:32 yeah it's interesting to me I I I
43:32 yeah it's interesting to me I I I usually work out at home but I I go to a
43:33 usually work out at home but I I go to a
43:33 usually work out at home but I I go to a gym once or twice a week if I can
43:35 gym once or twice a week if I can
43:35 gym once or twice a week if I can because it's good if I see uh the
43:37 because it's good if I see uh the
43:37 because it's good if I see uh the outside world um and there are a few
43:41 outside world um and there are a few
43:41 outside world um and there are a few individuals at the the gym who are
43:44 individuals at the the gym who are
43:44 individuals at the the gym who are they're not particularly large or
43:45 they're not particularly large or
43:45 they're not particularly large or muscular um but they are
43:48 muscular um but they are
43:48 muscular um but they are incredibly um lean and their posture is
43:52 incredibly um lean and their posture is
43:52 incredibly um lean and their posture is great presumably from the muscular
43:53 great presumably from the muscular
43:53 great presumably from the muscular skeletal work um and they
43:58 skeletal work um and they
43:58 skeletal work um and they they're in their 70s and 80s I mean it's
44:00 they're in their 70s and 80s I mean it's
44:00 they're in their 70s and 80s I mean it's remarkable right and um and I know all
44:02 remarkable right and um and I know all
44:02 remarkable right and um and I know all the telltale signs of hormone
44:03 the telltale signs of hormone
44:03 the telltale signs of hormone augmentation I'm very good at spotting
44:05 augmentation I'm very good at spotting
44:05 augmentation I'm very good at spotting that there are a few telltale signs I've
44:06 that there are a few telltale signs I've
44:06 that there are a few telltale signs I've talked about this on other podcast and
44:08 talked about this on other podcast and
44:08 talked about this on other podcast and they're not that's not why they're
44:10 they're not that's not why they're
44:10 they're not that's not why they're they're they're um they're fit they're
44:13 they're they're um they're fit they're
44:13 they're they're um they're fit they're they they're clearly of that look and
44:14 they they're clearly of that look and
44:14 they they're clearly of that look and you see this outside the gym too of
44:16 you see this outside the gym too of
44:16 you see this outside the gym too of course for people that look like they've
44:18 course for people that look like they've
44:18 course for people that look like they've done a lot of physical labor their whole
44:20 done a lot of physical labor their whole
44:20 done a lot of physical labor their whole life yeah they're just moving a lot they
44:23 life yeah they're just moving a lot they
44:23 life yeah they're just moving a lot they they have strong hands and features and
44:26 they have strong hands and features and
44:26 they have strong hands and features and they're um and they're not necessarily
44:28 they're um and they're not necessarily
44:28 they're um and they're not necessarily excessively lean but you can tell that
44:31 excessively lean but you can tell that
44:31 excessively lean but you can tell that they've been using their muscular
44:32 they've been using their muscular
44:32 they've been using their muscular skeletal system and I like to talk to
44:35 skeletal system and I like to talk to
44:35 skeletal system and I like to talk to these people and asked them like not
44:36 these people and asked them like not
44:36 these people and asked them like not what are you doing now for your workout
44:38 what are you doing now for your workout
44:38 what are you doing now for your workout but what what did you grow up doing you
44:40 but what what did you grow up doing you
44:40 but what what did you grow up doing you know and I would say and obviously I
44:42 know and I would say and obviously I
44:42 know and I would say and obviously I haven't run statistics on this but more
44:45 haven't run statistics on this but more
44:45 haven't run statistics on this but more than 75% of them respond that they grew
44:48 than 75% of them respond that they grew
44:48 than 75% of them respond that they grew up on a farm or that they did some sort
44:51 up on a farm or that they did some sort
44:51 up on a farm or that they did some sort of manual labor or were a postman or a
44:54 of manual labor or were a postman or a
44:54 of manual labor or were a postman or a postwoman or doing something where they
44:56 postwoman or doing something where they
44:56 postwoman or doing something where they moved a a lot for their early years and
44:58 moved a a lot for their early years and
44:58 moved a a lot for their early years and throughout middle age and most of them
45:01 throughout middle age and most of them
45:01 throughout middle age and most of them are now in retirement but some of them
45:02 are now in retirement but some of them
45:02 are now in retirement but some of them are still working and they all still
45:05 are still working and they all still
45:05 are still working and they all still moving a lot so the relationship between
45:08 moving a lot so the relationship between
45:08 moving a lot so the relationship between shiver and brown fat makes sense to me
45:12 shiver and brown fat makes sense to me
45:12 shiver and brown fat makes sense to me but is it the case that as we're just
45:13 but is it the case that as we're just
45:13 but is it the case that as we're just moving around I've heard of neat non um
45:16 moving around I've heard of neat non um
45:16 moving around I've heard of neat non um exercise induced thermogenesis so if
45:18 exercise induced thermogenesis so if
45:18 exercise induced thermogenesis so if we're just moving around um that we are
45:20 we're just moving around um that we are
45:21 we're just moving around um that we are activating Brown fat or do does there
45:22 activating Brown fat or do does there
45:22 activating Brown fat or do does there need to be this stressor does there need
45:24 need to be this stressor does there need
45:24 need to be this stressor does there need to be shiver and a cold stimulus or a
45:26 to be shiver and a cold stimulus or a
45:26 to be shiver and a cold stimulus or a heat stimulus to activate the brown fat
45:29 heat stimulus to activate the brown fat
45:29 heat stimulus to activate the brown fat in other words um is just staying active
45:32 in other words um is just staying active
45:32 in other words um is just staying active enough or do we need to do some sort of
45:34 enough or do we need to do some sort of
45:35 enough or do we need to do some sort of temperature uh shock type thing like
45:37 temperature uh shock type thing like
45:37 temperature uh shock type thing like deliberate cold exposure yeah I think
45:40 deliberate cold exposure yeah I think
45:40 deliberate cold exposure yeah I think that is really good question because how
45:42 that is really good question because how
45:42 that is really good question because how how also why do we have this tissue then
45:45 how also why do we have this tissue then
45:45 how also why do we have this tissue then if it's if it has to be extreme then you
45:47 if it's if it has to be extreme then you
45:47 if it's if it has to be extreme then you can question what what do we need this
45:49 can question what what do we need this
45:49 can question what what do we need this tissue for but it seems that you can
45:51 tissue for but it seems that you can
45:51 tissue for but it seems that you can activate the brown fat with just a
45:52 activate the brown fat with just a
45:53 activate the brown fat with just a little bit of exposure to to cold so
45:55 little bit of exposure to to cold so
45:55 little bit of exposure to to cold so cold is the the most potent stressor
45:57 cold is the the most potent stressor
45:57 cold is the the most potent stressor activator of our Brown fat because it's
46:00 activator of our Brown fat because it's
46:00 activator of our Brown fat because it's our temperature regulating organ in our
46:02 our temperature regulating organ in our
46:02 our temperature regulating organ in our body so first responder to that so the
46:04 body so first responder to that so the
46:04 body so first responder to that so the muscles will be a little bit too late uh
46:07 muscles will be a little bit too late uh
46:07 muscles will be a little bit too late uh and therefore we have maybe these two
46:08 and therefore we have maybe these two
46:08 and therefore we have maybe these two kind of tissues so actually just
46:12 kind of tissues so actually just
46:12 kind of tissues so actually just exposing yourself or a hand actually
46:14 exposing yourself or a hand actually
46:14 exposing yourself or a hand actually just to cold water so Studies have shown
46:16 just to cold water so Studies have shown
46:16 just to cold water so Studies have shown um that if you just put your hand in
46:18 um that if you just put your hand in
46:18 um that if you just put your hand in cold water not that you're going to
46:20 cold water not that you're going to
46:20 cold water not that you're going to going to do that all day or or every day
46:22 going to do that all day or or every day
46:22 going to do that all day or or every day or anything it's not it's it's not
46:24 or anything it's not it's it's not
46:24 or anything it's not it's it's not something you have to do but it just
46:26 something you have to do but it just
46:26 something you have to do but it just just shows that you can activate your
46:29 just shows that you can activate your
46:29 just shows that you can activate your brown fat just by getting a temperature
46:31 brown fat just by getting a temperature
46:31 brown fat just by getting a temperature change on your skin so you can go
46:33 change on your skin so you can go
46:33 change on your skin so you can go outside and t-shirt that's why also we
46:35 outside and t-shirt that's why also we
46:35 outside and t-shirt that's why also we were just talking about well people who
46:37 were just talking about well people who
46:37 were just talking about well people who works outside or move a lot or get out
46:40 works outside or move a lot or get out
46:40 works outside or move a lot or get out in and out of it like changing the
46:41 in and out of it like changing the
46:42 in and out of it like changing the temperature of the body all the time
46:44 temperature of the body all the time
46:44 temperature of the body all the time they will have more Brown fat and uh
46:46 they will have more Brown fat and uh
46:46 they will have more Brown fat and uh activating that is going to keep your
46:48 activating that is going to keep your
46:48 activating that is going to keep your metabolism higher and your insulin
46:50 metabolism higher and your insulin
46:50 metabolism higher and your insulin sensitivity a study have also shown this
46:53 sensitivity a study have also shown this
46:53 sensitivity a study have also shown this so the brown fat can be activated as
46:56 so the brown fat can be activated as
46:56 so the brown fat can be activated as soon as you just change your temperature
46:57 soon as you just change your temperature
46:57 soon as you just change your temperature in the skin so going outside in a
46:58 in the skin so going outside in a
46:58 in the skin so going outside in a t-shirt wearing cooling vests also
47:00 t-shirt wearing cooling vests also
47:00 t-shirt wearing cooling vests also Studies have shown this for 10 days it's
47:03 Studies have shown this for 10 days it's
47:03 Studies have shown this for 10 days it's going to also grow your uh your brown
47:05 going to also grow your uh your brown
47:05 going to also grow your uh your brown fat so you can get more Brown fat if you
47:08 fat so you can get more Brown fat if you
47:08 fat so you can get more Brown fat if you expose yourself to the cold you don't
47:10 expose yourself to the cold you don't
47:10 expose yourself to the cold you don't have to start in a cold uh shower you
47:13 have to start in a cold uh shower you
47:13 have to start in a cold uh shower you don't have to start in a cold uh plunge
47:16 don't have to start in a cold uh plunge
47:16 don't have to start in a cold uh plunge if you're not really ready for that yet
47:18 if you're not really ready for that yet
47:18 if you're not really ready for that yet but just exposing yourself to co wind
47:21 but just exposing yourself to co wind
47:21 but just exposing yourself to co wind has also shown to activate your brown
47:23 has also shown to activate your brown
47:23 has also shown to activate your brown fat or if you don't want to be like in
47:25 fat or if you don't want to be like in
47:25 fat or if you don't want to be like in this uh awake state um then you can also
47:29 this uh awake state um then you can also
47:29 this uh awake state um then you can also just sleep in the cold and you won't
47:30 just sleep in the cold and you won't
47:30 just sleep in the cold and you won't notice it that much maybe but Studies
47:32 notice it that much maybe but Studies
47:32 notice it that much maybe but Studies have shown that if you sleep in 19
47:34 have shown that if you sleep in 19
47:34 have shown that if you sleep in 19 degrees Celsius um then you will
47:37 degrees Celsius um then you will
47:37 degrees Celsius um then you will activate your brown fat and you will
47:40 activate your brown fat and you will
47:40 activate your brown fat and you will grow your brown fat so you have more of
47:42 grow your brown fat so you have more of
47:42 grow your brown fat so you have more of it so this very nice studies um from
47:47 it so this very nice studies um from
47:47 it so this very nice studies um from Hansen it Al from
47:48 Hansen it Al from
47:48 Hansen it Al from 2017 showed that a group of subjects who
47:52 2017 showed that a group of subjects who
47:52 2017 showed that a group of subjects who slept in a room at 24° and then they
47:55 slept in a room at 24° and then they
47:55 slept in a room at 24° and then they made this pet C scanning to see how much
47:58 made this pet C scanning to see how much
47:58 made this pet C scanning to see how much Brown fat do they have from the
47:59 Brown fat do they have from the
47:59 Brown fat do they have from the beginning so what we call Baseline then
48:02 beginning so what we call Baseline then
48:02 beginning so what we call Baseline then they measured again after um a month of
48:05 they measured again after um a month of
48:05 they measured again after um a month of sleeping in 19 degrees and they saw I
48:07 sleeping in 19 degrees and they saw I
48:07 sleeping in 19 degrees and they saw I think it's remarkable just one month at
48:09 think it's remarkable just one month at
48:09 think it's remarkable just one month at 19 degrees sleeping there they had a
48:11 19 degrees sleeping there they had a
48:11 19 degrees sleeping there they had a duet on and they were still had to close
48:14 duet on and they were still had to close
48:14 duet on and they were still had to close on when they're sleeping so they're
48:16 on when they're sleeping so they're
48:16 on when they're sleeping so they're under a cover under a duet under under a
48:18 under a cover under a duet under under a
48:18 under a cover under a duet under under a duet yeah yeah the subjects were
48:19 duet yeah yeah the subjects were
48:19 duet yeah yeah the subjects were sleeping at 19 degre from one month had
48:21 sleeping at 19 degre from one month had
48:21 sleeping at 19 degre from one month had increased his insulin sensitivity the
48:24 increased his insulin sensitivity the
48:24 increased his insulin sensitivity the next month they stepped at 24° they
48:26 next month they stepped at 24° they
48:26 next month they stepped at 24° they measured this again and then they had
48:28 measured this again and then they had
48:28 measured this again and then they had decreased actually a little bit and then
48:30 decreased actually a little bit and then
48:30 decreased actually a little bit and then they slept at the 27° so quite warm room
48:33 they slept at the 27° so quite warm room
48:33 they slept at the 27° so quite warm room actually for for the fourth month um and
48:37 actually for for the fourth month um and
48:37 actually for for the fourth month um and they saw even less activation of the
48:39 they saw even less activation of the
48:39 they saw even less activation of the brown fat and also insulin sensitivity
48:41 brown fat and also insulin sensitivity
48:41 brown fat and also insulin sensitivity so it seems that you can expose yourself
48:44 so it seems that you can expose yourself
48:44 so it seems that you can expose yourself and pretty rapidly the brown fat will
48:47 and pretty rapidly the brown fat will
48:47 and pretty rapidly the brown fat will respond to this because it's so
48:49 respond to this because it's so
48:49 respond to this because it's so sensitive to nor adrenaline right so if
48:52 sensitive to nor adrenaline right so if
48:52 sensitive to nor adrenaline right so if you keep exposing yourself to a little
48:54 you keep exposing yourself to a little
48:54 you keep exposing yourself to a little bit of cold you also get a little
48:56 bit of cold you also get a little
48:56 bit of cold you also get a little adapted to it but that's because the
48:58 adapted to it but that's because the
48:58 adapted to it but that's because the brown fat um has grown these more
49:00 brown fat um has grown these more
49:00 brown fat um has grown these more mitochondria in the cells so these small
49:03 mitochondria in the cells so these small
49:03 mitochondria in the cells so these small energy Fabrics that's going to activate
49:05 energy Fabrics that's going to activate
49:05 energy Fabrics that's going to activate the cells and that's going to take up
49:07 the cells and that's going to take up
49:07 the cells and that's going to take up glucose and fat from the fatty acids
49:09 glucose and fat from the fatty acids
49:09 glucose and fat from the fatty acids from the bloodstream to keep uh the
49:12 from the bloodstream to keep uh the
49:12 from the bloodstream to keep uh the thermogenesis up and that's going to
49:15 thermogenesis up and that's going to
49:15 thermogenesis up and that's going to clear up some sugar and it's going to
49:17 clear up some sugar and it's going to
49:17 clear up some sugar and it's going to clear so in the in the bloodstream and
49:19 clear so in the in the bloodstream and
49:19 clear so in the in the bloodstream and some some fat as well so the brown fat
49:21 some some fat as well so the brown fat
49:21 some some fat as well so the brown fat can in that way decrease our unhealthy
49:25 can in that way decrease our unhealthy
49:25 can in that way decrease our unhealthy fat which is the white fat um and the
49:27 fat which is the white fat um and the
49:27 fat which is the white fat um and the white fat is what we don't want too much
49:29 white fat is what we don't want too much
49:29 white fat is what we don't want too much of but we still need some of course um
49:33 of but we still need some of course um
49:33 of but we still need some of course um and it's our energy storage so it's very
49:35 and it's our energy storage so it's very
49:35 and it's our energy storage so it's very important that it's there we just don't
49:36 important that it's there we just don't
49:36 important that it's there we just don't need a lot of it so on our thighs and
49:39 need a lot of it so on our thighs and
49:39 need a lot of it so on our thighs and also around our inner organs that's
49:41 also around our inner organs that's
49:41 also around our inner organs that's where it's it's located so if we can
49:44 where it's it's located so if we can
49:44 where it's it's located so if we can have activation of the brown fat just by
49:46 have activation of the brown fat just by
49:46 have activation of the brown fat just by going out in the cold and just by
49:48 going out in the cold and just by
49:48 going out in the cold and just by sleeping in a cold room or if you are
49:50 sleeping in a cold room or if you are
49:50 sleeping in a cold room or if you are have courage for it you can go out and
49:52 have courage for it you can go out and
49:52 have courage for it you can go out and expose yourself in a cold lunch um cold
49:54 expose yourself in a cold lunch um cold
49:55 expose yourself in a cold lunch um cold showers is also going to do the
49:57 showers is also going to do the
49:57 showers is also going to do the so you can do different variations of
49:59 so you can do different variations of
49:59 so you can do different variations of this just exposing yourself to various
50:01 this just exposing yourself to various
50:02 this just exposing yourself to various temperatures is going to activate the
50:03 temperatures is going to activate the
50:03 temperatures is going to activate the brown fat because it was involved to
50:06 brown fat because it was involved to
50:06 brown fat because it was involved to keep us in a perfect homeostatic balance
50:09 keep us in a perfect homeostatic balance
50:09 keep us in a perfect homeostatic balance regarding temperature so to Keep Us
50:11 regarding temperature so to Keep Us
50:11 regarding temperature so to Keep Us Alive incredible uh I want to just get a
50:15 Alive incredible uh I want to just get a
50:15 Alive incredible uh I want to just get a clarification around this 19 degrees
50:17 clarification around this 19 degrees
50:17 clarification around this 19 degrees Celsius um room that they're sleeping in
50:19 Celsius um room that they're sleeping in
50:19 Celsius um room that they're sleeping in so they're under a comforter a duvet and
50:22 so they're under a comforter a duvet and
50:22 so they're under a comforter a duvet and um and you mentioned they had cloth on
50:24 um and you mentioned they had cloth on
50:24 um and you mentioned they had cloth on uh the room is 19 degrees celsus but the
50:27 uh the room is 19 degrees celsus but the
50:27 uh the room is 19 degrees celsus but the temperature underneath their blanket
50:28 temperature underneath their blanket
50:28 temperature underneath their blanket might not be 19° celus so presumably
50:30 might not be 19° celus so presumably
50:30 might not be 19° celus so presumably it's the cold on their face that's
50:33 it's the cold on their face that's
50:33 it's the cold on their face that's activating uh the the increase in uh
50:36 activating uh the the increase in uh
50:36 activating uh the the increase in uh Brown fat that was observed is that is
50:38 Brown fat that was observed is that is
50:38 Brown fat that was observed is that is that a reasonable uh expectation I I
50:41 that a reasonable uh expectation I I
50:41 that a reasonable uh expectation I I think so yeah because it's you have so
50:43 think so yeah because it's you have so
50:43 think so yeah because it's you have so many co-receptors in your face so it's
50:46 many co-receptors in your face so it's
50:46 many co-receptors in your face so it's actually it's enough and it I think
50:48 actually it's enough and it I think
50:48 actually it's enough and it I think corresponds very well with the studies
50:49 corresponds very well with the studies
50:50 corresponds very well with the studies showing that you can activate the brown
50:51 showing that you can activate the brown
50:51 showing that you can activate the brown fat just by putting a hand into a bucket
50:53 fat just by putting a hand into a bucket
50:53 fat just by putting a hand into a bucket of cold water H and I did this
50:55 of cold water H and I did this
50:55 of cold water H and I did this experiment myself myself in in my
50:57 experiment myself myself in in my
50:57 experiment myself myself in in my studies just to see how well did they H
51:01 studies just to see how well did they H
51:01 studies just to see how well did they H respond to cold water so it was a 4°
51:04 respond to cold water so it was a 4°
51:04 respond to cold water so it was a 4° Celsius cold water for four minutes and
51:07 Celsius cold water for four minutes and
51:07 Celsius cold water for four minutes and then I just measured blood pressure and
51:08 then I just measured blood pressure and
51:08 then I just measured blood pressure and heart rate to see do they have like an
51:10 heart rate to see do they have like an
51:10 heart rate to see do they have like an activation of this I actually also
51:12 activation of this I actually also
51:12 activation of this I actually also measured the brown fat during this uh
51:15 measured the brown fat during this uh
51:15 measured the brown fat during this uh Cod exposure for four minutes with an
51:17 Cod exposure for four minutes with an
51:17 Cod exposure for four minutes with an infrared thermography camera to see can
51:19 infrared thermography camera to see can
51:19 infrared thermography camera to see can I see that the brown fat is activated
51:22 I see that the brown fat is activated
51:22 I see that the brown fat is activated and just just to go back to the location
51:26 and just just to go back to the location
51:26 and just just to go back to the location of the brown fat so usually you cannot
51:28 of the brown fat so usually you cannot
51:28 of the brown fat so usually you cannot really see activation of your brown fat
51:30 really see activation of your brown fat
51:30 really see activation of your brown fat because it's located centrally in your
51:33 because it's located centrally in your
51:33 because it's located centrally in your around your central nervous system um
51:36 around your central nervous system um
51:36 around your central nervous system um and and the biggest Depot as you
51:39 and and the biggest Depot as you
51:39 and and the biggest Depot as you mentioned before is up here under the
51:41 mentioned before is up here under the
51:41 mentioned before is up here under the the cicular bones so um and very close
51:45 the cicular bones so um and very close
51:45 the cicular bones so um and very close to the skin surface and because it's so
51:48 to the skin surface and because it's so
51:48 to the skin surface and because it's so close to the skin surface I could
51:49 close to the skin surface I could
51:49 close to the skin surface I could measure it with this very expensive
51:51 measure it with this very expensive
51:51 measure it with this very expensive camera and it's not very feasible for
51:53 camera and it's not very feasible for
51:53 camera and it's not very feasible for people to go home and do this don't
51:55 people to go home and do this don't
51:55 people to go home and do this don't because it takes a lot of practice I can
51:57 because it takes a lot of practice I can
51:57 because it takes a lot of practice I can tell um but we measured the brown fat
52:00 tell um but we measured the brown fat
52:00 tell um but we measured the brown fat with this um and and I could see that
52:03 with this um and and I could see that
52:03 with this um and and I could see that after a few minutes that the activation
52:04 after a few minutes that the activation
52:04 after a few minutes that the activation was there an increase in temperature uh
52:07 was there an increase in temperature uh
52:07 was there an increase in temperature uh arose from that um activation just four
52:09 arose from that um activation just four
52:09 arose from that um activation just four minutes so it's very rapid and I'm also
52:13 minutes so it's very rapid and I'm also
52:13 minutes so it's very rapid and I'm also measured in my study how deep was the
52:15 measured in my study how deep was the
52:15 measured in my study how deep was the brown fat under your skin so it's very
52:17 brown fat under your skin so it's very
52:17 brown fat under your skin so it's very close to the surface which also shows
52:20 close to the surface which also shows
52:20 close to the surface which also shows that it it needs to be there to to heat
52:22 that it it needs to be there to to heat
52:22 that it it needs to be there to to heat you up and heat heat your inner organs
52:25 you up and heat heat your inner organs
52:25 you up and heat heat your inner organs well I'm delighted to hear all of this
52:27 well I'm delighted to hear all of this
52:27 well I'm delighted to hear all of this and I'll I'll tell you why one is by way
52:29 and I'll I'll tell you why one is by way
52:29 and I'll I'll tell you why one is by way of anecdote I mentioned a little bit
52:31 of anecdote I mentioned a little bit
52:31 of anecdote I mentioned a little bit earlier that as an undergraduate I
52:33 earlier that as an undergraduate I
52:33 earlier that as an undergraduate I worked in a lab that studied
52:34 worked in a lab that studied
52:34 worked in a lab that studied thermogenesis and we were doing that in
52:35 thermogenesis and we were doing that in
52:35 thermogenesis and we were doing that in animals but we had this room that was
52:37 animals but we had this room that was
52:37 animals but we had this room that was very cold the whole room was cold uh the
52:40 very cold the whole room was cold uh the
52:40 very cold the whole room was cold uh the guy who I worked for at the time had
52:42 guy who I worked for at the time had
52:42 guy who I worked for at the time had name Harry Carlile is a very
52:43 name Harry Carlile is a very
52:43 name Harry Carlile is a very accomplished physiologist he came from
52:45 accomplished physiologist he came from
52:45 accomplished physiologist he came from this lineage I don't know if this
52:46 this lineage I don't know if this
52:46 this lineage I don't know if this literature is still um discussed much
52:48 literature is still um discussed much
52:48 literature is still um discussed much but it's a beautiful literature um from
52:51 but it's a beautiful literature um from
52:51 but it's a beautiful literature um from Rothwell and stock they were the ones
52:53 Rothwell and stock they were the ones
52:53 Rothwell and stock they were the ones who discovered um non-exercise induced
52:55 who discovered um non-exercise induced
52:55 who discovered um non-exercise induced thermogenesis the fact that people
52:56 thermogenesis the fact that people
52:56 thermogenesis the fact that people bounce who bounce their legs a lot and
52:58 bounce who bounce their legs a lot and
52:58 bounce who bounce their legs a lot and move around a lot and have a lot of kind
53:00 move around a lot and have a lot of kind
53:00 move around a lot and have a lot of kind of um sarcastic movement um burn up to
53:03 of um sarcastic movement um burn up to
53:03 of um sarcastic movement um burn up to 18
53:05 18
53:05 18 1,800 calories more per day than people
53:08 1,800 calories more per day than people
53:08 1,800 calories more per day than people who sit more still fascinating
53:10 who sit more still fascinating
53:10 who sit more still fascinating incredible just incredible um I don't
53:12 incredible just incredible um I don't
53:12 incredible just incredible um I don't think that work deser uh gets as much
53:14 think that work deser uh gets as much
53:14 think that work deser uh gets as much attention as it deserves publish in
53:16 attention as it deserves publish in
53:16 attention as it deserves publish in journals like nature so very uh fine
53:19 journals like nature so very uh fine
53:19 journals like nature so very uh fine journals but in any event uh one of the
53:22 journals but in any event uh one of the
53:22 journals but in any event uh one of the things that I noticed when I started
53:24 things that I noticed when I started
53:24 things that I noticed when I started working in that laboratory was that I
53:25 working in that laboratory was that I
53:26 working in that laboratory was that I was cold because the room was cold and
53:28 was cold because the room was cold and
53:28 was cold because the room was cold and um Dr Carlile Harry um said well the key
53:32 um Dr Carlile Harry um said well the key
53:32 um Dr Carlile Harry um said well the key is to wear a t-shirt in here for about
53:34 is to wear a t-shirt in here for about
53:34 is to wear a t-shirt in here for about two three days and then you will cold
53:36 two three days and then you will cold
53:36 two three days and then you will cold adapt I thought well wouldn't I want to
53:38 adapt I thought well wouldn't I want to
53:38 adapt I thought well wouldn't I want to put on a hoodie and get warm in there so
53:40 put on a hoodie and get warm in there so
53:40 put on a hoodie and get warm in there so I was comfortable and he said no
53:41 I was comfortable and he said no
53:41 I was comfortable and he said no actually what you want to do is get
53:43 actually what you want to do is get
53:43 actually what you want to do is get yourself uncomfortably cold activate
53:45 yourself uncomfortably cold activate
53:45 yourself uncomfortably cold activate your brown fat and indeed when I did
53:47 your brown fat and indeed when I did
53:47 your brown fat and indeed when I did that I think it was just two days of
53:49 that I think it was just two days of
53:49 that I think it was just two days of being in that cold environment then I
53:50 being in that cold environment then I
53:50 being in that cold environment then I could come back on the third day and be
53:51 could come back on the third day and be
53:52 could come back on the third day and be perfectly comfortable because the brown
53:54 perfectly comfortable because the brown
53:54 perfectly comfortable because the brown fat had expanded um um or or added
53:57 fat had expanded um um or or added
53:57 fat had expanded um um or or added mitochondria or both and I was perfectly
54:00 mitochondria or both and I was perfectly
54:00 mitochondria or both and I was perfectly comfortable in that environment I also
54:01 comfortable in that environment I also
54:01 comfortable in that environment I also got very very lean in those um in those
54:04 got very very lean in those um in those
54:04 got very very lean in those um in those days and weeks now i' I've never been
54:06 days and weeks now i' I've never been
54:06 days and weeks now i' I've never been somebody who's very lean nor am I
54:08 somebody who's very lean nor am I
54:08 somebody who's very lean nor am I somebody who carries a lot of excess
54:09 somebody who carries a lot of excess
54:10 somebody who carries a lot of excess adapost tissue I'm kind of somewhere in
54:11 adapost tissue I'm kind of somewhere in
54:11 adapost tissue I'm kind of somewhere in the middle I'm sure I could adjust that
54:12 the middle I'm sure I could adjust that
54:12 the middle I'm sure I could adjust that with feeding if I want to but it was it
54:15 with feeding if I want to but it was it
54:15 with feeding if I want to but it was it was striking uh what a powerful effect
54:17 was striking uh what a powerful effect
54:17 was striking uh what a powerful effect it had on my entire system of thermal
54:20 it had on my entire system of thermal
54:20 it had on my entire system of thermal regulation and one of the things that I
54:22 regulation and one of the things that I
54:22 regulation and one of the things that I uh also delighted in when cell reports
54:25 uh also delighted in when cell reports
54:25 uh also delighted in when cell reports um medicine published your study is they
54:27 um medicine published your study is they
54:27 um medicine published your study is they had an accompanying um press release
54:30 had an accompanying um press release
54:30 had an accompanying um press release that went out to to those of us that
54:32 that went out to to those of us that
54:32 that went out to to those of us that receive press releases and it described
54:35 receive press releases and it described
54:35 receive press releases and it described a um a saying in Scandinavia which is um
54:38 a um a saying in Scandinavia which is um
54:38 a um a saying in Scandinavia which is um essentially I'm not going to attempt to
54:40 essentially I'm not going to attempt to
54:40 essentially I'm not going to attempt to uh speak uh Danish even though I have
54:42 uh speak uh Danish even though I have
54:42 uh speak uh Danish even though I have much of my family is in Denmark believe
54:44 much of my family is in Denmark believe
54:44 much of my family is in Denmark believe it or not from Denmark um we have a lot
54:46 it or not from Denmark um we have a lot
54:46 it or not from Denmark um we have a lot of Danes in my family um I won't
54:48 of Danes in my family um I won't
54:48 of Danes in my family um I won't embarrass myself by trying to speak
54:49 embarrass myself by trying to speak
54:49 embarrass myself by trying to speak Danish as I did before the the
54:51 Danish as I did before the the
54:51 Danish as I did before the the microphones were rolling but um that
54:55 microphones were rolling but um that
54:55 microphones were rolling but um that there's a saying that I think
54:57 there's a saying that I think
54:57 there's a saying that I think essentially translates to in the fall
55:01 essentially translates to in the fall
55:01 essentially translates to in the fall when when you're approaching winter you
55:03 when when you're approaching winter you
55:03 when when you're approaching winter you want to actually wear fewer layers not
55:06 want to actually wear fewer layers not
55:06 want to actually wear fewer layers not bundle up when you go outside so that
55:07 bundle up when you go outside so that
55:07 bundle up when you go outside so that you can prepare yourself for the cold of
55:10 you can prepare yourself for the cold of
55:10 you can prepare yourself for the cold of winter and be able to heat yourself up
55:11 winter and be able to heat yourself up
55:11 winter and be able to heat yourself up using your brown fat and that in the
55:13 using your brown fat and that in the
55:13 using your brown fat and that in the spring as the temperatures are
55:15 spring as the temperatures are
55:15 spring as the temperatures are warming rather than removing layers you
55:18 warming rather than removing layers you
55:18 warming rather than removing layers you want to wear more layers in order to be
55:20 want to wear more layers in order to be
55:20 want to wear more layers in order to be a little bit uncomfortably warm so that
55:23 a little bit uncomfortably warm so that
55:23 a little bit uncomfortably warm so that In the Heat of the summer you're better
55:25 In the Heat of the summer you're better
55:25 In the Heat of the summer you're better at Cooling your body do I have that
55:27 at Cooling your body do I have that
55:27 at Cooling your body do I have that right and maybe do you know the saying
55:29 right and maybe do you know the saying
55:29 right and maybe do you know the saying and would you be willing to share it
55:30 and would you be willing to share it
55:30 and would you be willing to share it only the swedes and um uh and Danes will
55:33 only the swedes and um uh and Danes will
55:33 only the swedes and um uh and Danes will be able to understand um maybe the
55:35 be able to understand um maybe the
55:35 be able to understand um maybe the Norwegians too if you don't know it
55:37 Norwegians too if you don't know it
55:37 Norwegians too if you don't know it that's okay yeah so I know the I know
55:40 that's okay yeah so I know the I know
55:40 that's okay yeah so I know the I know the the concept of it because we say it
55:42 the the concept of it because we say it
55:42 the the concept of it because we say it you should you should wear less before
55:45 you should you should wear less before
55:45 you should you should wear less before winter and uh and more before summer so
55:48 winter and uh and more before summer so
55:48 winter and uh and more before summer so well there it is in English so it
55:49 well there it is in English so it
55:49 well there it is in English so it doesn't have to be esoteric but okay
55:52 doesn't have to be esoteric but okay
55:52 doesn't have to be esoteric but okay yeah and and you're completely right and
55:53 yeah and and you're completely right and
55:53 yeah and and you're completely right and I think this is the this is just
55:55 I think this is the this is just
55:55 I think this is the this is just something that we know in the
55:56 something that we know in the
55:56 something that we know in the Scandinavian countries I think that we
55:58 Scandinavian countries I think that we
55:58 Scandinavian countries I think that we we we intuitively know this but if we
56:02 we we intuitively know this but if we
56:02 we we intuitively know this but if we just go back a little bit in history I
56:04 just go back a little bit in history I
56:04 just go back a little bit in history I think that um around the
56:06 think that um around the
56:07 think that um around the 1950s the the Russian government went
56:10 1950s the the Russian government went
56:10 1950s the the Russian government went out and said well we should do something
56:12 out and said well we should do something
56:12 out and said well we should do something about the
56:13 about the
56:13 about the tuberculosis pandemic or epidemic the
56:16 tuberculosis pandemic or epidemic the
56:17 tuberculosis pandemic or epidemic the was at this time so they they wanted to
56:19 was at this time so they they wanted to
56:19 was at this time so they they wanted to have the the people um be more resilient
56:23 have the the people um be more resilient
56:23 have the the people um be more resilient to the cold and also increase our immune
56:27 to the cold and also increase our immune
56:27 to the cold and also increase our immune system so in Scandinavia and actually
56:30 system so in Scandinavia and actually
56:30 system so in Scandinavia and actually also in Russia we put our babies outside
56:33 also in Russia we put our babies outside
56:33 also in Russia we put our babies outside to sleep H in the prom and that is like
56:36 to sleep H in the prom and that is like
56:36 to sleep H in the prom and that is like to H also to to get more resistant to
56:39 to H also to to get more resistant to
56:39 to H also to to get more resistant to the co but also to increase our immune
56:41 the co but also to increase our immune
56:41 the co but also to increase our immune system and we still do that in Denmark
56:43 system and we still do that in Denmark
56:43 system and we still do that in Denmark so we do you really yeah we do babies
56:45 so we do you really yeah we do babies
56:45 so we do you really yeah we do babies are taken out in the cold in the snow in
56:48 are taken out in the cold in the snow in
56:48 are taken out in the cold in the snow in Frosty rain everything my two boys have
56:52 Frosty rain everything my two boys have
56:52 Frosty rain everything my two boys have been sleeping out in winter or at least
56:55 been sleeping out in winter or at least
56:55 been sleeping out in winter or at least the F their first many three four five
56:58 the F their first many three four five
56:58 the F their first many three four five years because it's like very good for
57:00 years because it's like very good for
57:00 years because it's like very good for them and they get a better immune system
57:03 them and they get a better immune system
57:03 them and they get a better immune system and get resilient to the cold so they
57:05 and get resilient to the cold so they
57:05 and get resilient to the cold so they will have less colds and also they run
57:09 will have less colds and also they run
57:09 will have less colds and also they run around in a t-shirt when it's super cold
57:10 around in a t-shirt when it's super cold
57:10 around in a t-shirt when it's super cold because they have activated all the
57:12 because they have activated all the
57:12 because they have activated all the brown fat I didn't understand at that
57:13 brown fat I didn't understand at that
57:13 brown fat I didn't understand at that time I must I must say but I kind of
57:15 time I must I must say but I kind of
57:15 time I must I must say but I kind of like intuitively also knew because we
57:17 like intuitively also knew because we
57:17 like intuitively also knew because we have inherited this H way of doing
57:20 have inherited this H way of doing
57:20 have inherited this H way of doing things with our culture so and I have
57:23 things with our culture so and I have
57:23 things with our culture so and I have heard people coming from the US saying
57:25 heard people coming from the US saying
57:25 heard people coming from the US saying they are crazy they put their babies
57:27 they are crazy they put their babies
57:27 they are crazy they put their babies outside and PRS and leave them there and
57:29 outside and PRS and leave them there and
57:29 outside and PRS and leave them there and then they go inside and drink coffee on
57:31 then they go inside and drink coffee on
57:31 then they go inside and drink coffee on the
57:32 the
57:32 the cafe well I don't think Dames are crazy
57:34 cafe well I don't think Dames are crazy
57:34 cafe well I don't think Dames are crazy I I I I Adore the Danes um they're
57:38 I I I I Adore the Danes um they're
57:38 I I I I Adore the Danes um they're they're amazing uh culture and people
57:40 they're amazing uh culture and people
57:40 they're amazing uh culture and people I'm so fortunate to have family members
57:42 I'm so fortunate to have family members
57:42 I'm so fortunate to have family members uh from Denmark but I did notice so when
57:44 uh from Denmark but I did notice so when
57:44 uh from Denmark but I did notice so when when we were in Copenhagen and I know um
57:47 when we were in Copenhagen and I know um
57:47 when we were in Copenhagen and I know um we we saw you there uh not long ago that
57:50 we we saw you there uh not long ago that
57:50 we we saw you there uh not long ago that was June um the water in the harbor was
57:53 was June um the water in the harbor was
57:53 was June um the water in the harbor was was cold for for even though the Pacific
57:56 was cold for for even though the Pacific
57:56 was cold for for even though the Pacific is close to here um which is very cold
57:58 is close to here um which is very cold
57:58 is close to here um which is very cold uh felt pretty cold but I it was
58:01 uh felt pretty cold but I it was
58:01 uh felt pretty cold but I it was summertime is um so people were in
58:05 summertime is um so people were in
58:05 summertime is um so people were in summertime mode right t-shirts and
58:07 summertime mode right t-shirts and
58:07 summertime mode right t-shirts and shorts and things that that sort but it
58:09 shorts and things that that sort but it
58:09 shorts and things that that sort but it did strike me that people in Copenhagen
58:14 did strike me that people in Copenhagen
58:14 did strike me that people in Copenhagen are
58:15 are
58:15 are dramatically fitter than they are in the
58:18 dramatically fitter than they are in the
58:18 dramatically fitter than they are in the United States I mean first of all
58:20 United States I mean first of all
58:20 United States I mean first of all everyone's bicycling everywhere yeah um
58:23 everyone's bicycling everywhere yeah um
58:23 everyone's bicycling everywhere yeah um not many people wearing sunglasses so
58:25 not many people wearing sunglasses so
58:25 not many people wearing sunglasses so trying to extract as much Photon energy
58:27 trying to extract as much Photon energy
58:27 trying to extract as much Photon energy from the Sun as possible which I support
58:30 from the Sun as possible which I support
58:30 from the Sun as possible which I support uh as everyone knows that's I'm a big
58:32 uh as everyone knows that's I'm a big
58:32 uh as everyone knows that's I'm a big fan of getting Sun but also um when we
58:34 fan of getting Sun but also um when we
58:34 fan of getting Sun but also um when we did see swimmers um they were swimming
58:37 did see swimmers um they were swimming
58:37 did see swimmers um they were swimming in this cold water and like it was
58:40 in this cold water and like it was
58:40 in this cold water and like it was nothing and their the range and age of
58:44 nothing and their the range and age of
58:44 nothing and their the range and age of the swimmers was what was remarkable you
58:46 the swimmers was what was remarkable you
58:46 the swimmers was what was remarkable you saw the kind of fit triathlete looking
58:48 saw the kind of fit triathlete looking
58:48 saw the kind of fit triathlete looking types but also young kids like really
58:50 types but also young kids like really
58:50 types but also young kids like really young kids and then people probably in
58:52 young kids and then people probably in
58:52 young kids and then people probably in their again their their 70s 80s maybe
58:54 their again their their 70s 80s maybe
58:54 their again their their 70s 80s maybe even '90s really
58:56 even '90s really
58:56 even '90s really remarkable vastly different than what
58:58 remarkable vastly different than what
58:58 remarkable vastly different than what you see if you go to the ocean here in
59:00 you see if you go to the ocean here in
59:00 you see if you go to the ocean here in Los Angeles or or elsewhere so um yeah
59:04 Los Angeles or or elsewhere so um yeah
59:04 Los Angeles or or elsewhere so um yeah you Scandinavians are on to something
59:06 you Scandinavians are on to something
59:06 you Scandinavians are on to something with this I'd like to take a quick break
59:08 with this I'd like to take a quick break
59:08 with this I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor insid tracker
59:11 and thank our sponsor insid tracker
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59:12 insid tracker is a personalized
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59:17 better understand your body and help you
59:17 better understand your body and help you reach your health goals I've long been
59:20 reach your health goals I've long been
59:20 reach your health goals I've long been believer in getting regular blood work
59:21 believer in getting regular blood work
59:21 believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that many of
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59:23 done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate
59:25 the factors that impact your immediate
59:25 the factors that impact your immediate and long-term health can only be
59:26 and long-term health can only be
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59:28 assessed with a quality blood test the
59:29 assessed with a quality blood test the problem with a lot of blood and DNA
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59:30 problem with a lot of blood and DNA tests out there however is that they'll
59:32 tests out there however is that they'll
59:32 tests out there however is that they'll give you information about certain lipid
59:34 give you information about certain lipid
59:34 give you information about certain lipid markers or hormone markers but no
59:36 markers or hormone markers but no
59:36 markers or hormone markers but no information about what to do with all of
59:38 information about what to do with all of
59:38 information about what to do with all of that data inside tracker makes it very
59:40 that data inside tracker makes it very
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59:46 assess what sorts of Behavioral
59:47 assess what sorts of Behavioral nutritional supplementation or perhaps
59:48 nutritional supplementation or perhaps
59:48 nutritional supplementation or perhaps other interventions you might want to
59:50 other interventions you might want to
59:50 other interventions you might want to use in order to bring those numbers into
59:52 use in order to bring those numbers into
59:52 use in order to bring those numbers into the ranges that are optimal for your
59:53 the ranges that are optimal for your
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1:00:17 insidetracker tocomin to get 20% off I'd
1:00:17 insidetracker tocomin to get 20% off I'd like to talk about your study um if you
1:00:20 like to talk about your study um if you
1:00:20 like to talk about your study um if you could give us a little bit of the
1:00:21 could give us a little bit of the
1:00:21 could give us a little bit of the backdrop about what motivated that study
1:00:24 backdrop about what motivated that study
1:00:24 backdrop about what motivated that study and then um and then walk through what
1:00:27 and then um and then walk through what
1:00:27 and then um and then walk through what you did you know who the subjects were
1:00:30 you did you know who the subjects were
1:00:30 you did you know who the subjects were um what you had them do what you
1:00:32 um what you had them do what you
1:00:32 um what you had them do what you measured um and as much detail as you
1:00:34 measured um and as much detail as you
1:00:34 measured um and as much detail as you would like to share because I think it's
1:00:36 would like to share because I think it's
1:00:36 would like to share because I think it's such an important you know even I fair
1:00:39 such an important you know even I fair
1:00:39 such an important you know even I fair to say landmark study because it also
1:00:41 to say landmark study because it also
1:00:41 to say landmark study because it also explored not just cold but sauna and the
1:00:46 explored not just cold but sauna and the
1:00:46 explored not just cold but sauna and the the co-use of cold and sauna as a way to
1:00:49 the co-use of cold and sauna as a way to
1:00:49 the co-use of cold and sauna as a way to proe metabolism and brown fat and other
1:00:52 proe metabolism and brown fat and other
1:00:52 proe metabolism and brown fat and other markers as well and as you do this uh
1:00:54 markers as well and as you do this uh
1:00:54 markers as well and as you do this uh I'm hoping at some point you might um
1:00:56 I'm hoping at some point you might um
1:00:56 I'm hoping at some point you might um tell us some of the observations that
1:00:58 tell us some of the observations that
1:00:58 tell us some of the observations that you might have made that interested you
1:01:00 you might have made that interested you
1:01:00 you might have made that interested you that perhaps were not in the paper
1:01:02 that perhaps were not in the paper
1:01:02 that perhaps were not in the paper because that's one of the great benefits
1:01:03 because that's one of the great benefits
1:01:03 because that's one of the great benefits of sitting across from somebody who who
1:01:05 of sitting across from somebody who who
1:01:05 of sitting across from somebody who who did the work in detail so um yeah if you
1:01:07 did the work in detail so um yeah if you
1:01:07 did the work in detail so um yeah if you could tell us about your study um and uh
1:01:10 could tell us about your study um and uh
1:01:10 could tell us about your study um and uh what you did and what you discovered
1:01:12 what you did and what you discovered
1:01:12 what you did and what you discovered thank you for that question Andrew I I
1:01:14 thank you for that question Andrew I I
1:01:14 thank you for that question Andrew I I love to like also explain a little bit
1:01:17 love to like also explain a little bit
1:01:17 love to like also explain a little bit what did we do because when people read
1:01:19 what did we do because when people read
1:01:19 what did we do because when people read this kind of paper they just see the
1:01:21 this kind of paper they just see the
1:01:21 this kind of paper they just see the numbers they don't see what what
1:01:23 numbers they don't see what what
1:01:23 numbers they don't see what what happened before that and human studs are
1:01:25 happened before that and human studs are
1:01:25 happened before that and human studs are very different from from my study my
1:01:27 very different from from my study my
1:01:27 very different from from my study my study you can do a knockout of something
1:01:29 study you can do a knockout of something
1:01:29 study you can do a knockout of something and then everything is like perfectly
1:01:31 and then everything is like perfectly
1:01:31 and then everything is like perfectly matched and controlled doing human
1:01:33 matched and controlled doing human
1:01:33 matched and controlled doing human studies is very far different from that
1:01:35 studies is very far different from that
1:01:35 studies is very far different from that because people are different even in the
1:01:38 because people are different even in the
1:01:38 because people are different even in the groups so yeah but what we um when I
1:01:43 groups so yeah but what we um when I
1:01:43 groups so yeah but what we um when I started this research in 2016 I did not
1:01:46 started this research in 2016 I did not
1:01:46 started this research in 2016 I did not really know what the brown fat was so I
1:01:48 really know what the brown fat was so I
1:01:48 really know what the brown fat was so I started reading up on all this and I was
1:01:50 started reading up on all this and I was
1:01:50 started reading up on all this and I was very interested in preventive medicine
1:01:53 very interested in preventive medicine
1:01:53 very interested in preventive medicine um also the studies that I did before
1:01:55 um also the studies that I did before
1:01:55 um also the studies that I did before Brown fat was also like very much in in
1:01:59 Brown fat was also like very much in in
1:01:59 Brown fat was also like very much in in the preventive side like how can we that
1:02:01 the preventive side like how can we that
1:02:01 the preventive side like how can we that was about something else but the Sweet
1:02:03 was about something else but the Sweet
1:02:03 was about something else but the Sweet Tooth and how can we lower our sweet
1:02:05 Tooth and how can we lower our sweet
1:02:05 Tooth and how can we lower our sweet tooth and stuff like that so but after
1:02:07 tooth and stuff like that so but after
1:02:07 tooth and stuff like that so but after that I wanted to to do something new so
1:02:09 that I wanted to to do something new so
1:02:09 that I wanted to to do something new so I looked into the brown fat got highered
1:02:11 I looked into the brown fat got highered
1:02:11 I looked into the brown fat got highered in this fantastic research group where
1:02:14 in this fantastic research group where
1:02:14 in this fantastic research group where they it's a cell group so they mostly
1:02:16 they it's a cell group so they mostly
1:02:16 they it's a cell group so they mostly did cell studies and they didn't have
1:02:18 did cell studies and they didn't have
1:02:18 did cell studies and they didn't have anyone to do a human study yet um and um
1:02:22 anyone to do a human study yet um and um
1:02:22 anyone to do a human study yet um and um but they really wanted me to to do that
1:02:24 but they really wanted me to to do that
1:02:24 but they really wanted me to to do that so I read upon a lot of research about
1:02:27 so I read upon a lot of research about
1:02:28 so I read upon a lot of research about how does the brown fat get activated
1:02:30 how does the brown fat get activated
1:02:30 how does the brown fat get activated what have been done already and I
1:02:31 what have been done already and I
1:02:31 what have been done already and I mentioned the paper before with sleeping
1:02:33 mentioned the paper before with sleeping
1:02:33 mentioned the paper before with sleeping in the cold I found that particular
1:02:35 in the cold I found that particular
1:02:35 in the cold I found that particular paper very fascinating and that was also
1:02:39 paper very fascinating and that was also
1:02:39 paper very fascinating and that was also where um at that time I was like okay so
1:02:41 where um at that time I was like okay so
1:02:41 where um at that time I was like okay so cold exposure as an intervention of
1:02:43 cold exposure as an intervention of
1:02:43 cold exposure as an intervention of sleeping in the cold could be a good
1:02:45 sleeping in the cold could be a good
1:02:45 sleeping in the cold could be a good thing to go out and say well people do
1:02:47 thing to go out and say well people do
1:02:47 thing to go out and say well people do this but on the other hand is first of
1:02:50 this but on the other hand is first of
1:02:50 this but on the other hand is first of all it was already done that was one
1:02:53 all it was already done that was one
1:02:53 all it was already done that was one thing but the other thing was like well
1:02:55 thing but the other thing was like well
1:02:55 thing but the other thing was like well I wanted to to see if we can do like
1:02:57 I wanted to to see if we can do like
1:02:57 I wanted to to see if we can do like some kind of activity so we can have
1:02:59 some kind of activity so we can have
1:02:59 some kind of activity so we can have people move also or go and do something
1:03:02 people move also or go and do something
1:03:03 people move also or go and do something do something together or whatever and
1:03:05 do something together or whatever and
1:03:05 do something together or whatever and and and the code uh made us think about
1:03:08 and and the code uh made us think about
1:03:08 and and the code uh made us think about well what about winter swimming and it
1:03:10 well what about winter swimming and it
1:03:10 well what about winter swimming and it was kind of like a bit of a joke in the
1:03:11 was kind of like a bit of a joke in the
1:03:11 was kind of like a bit of a joke in the beginning it's like winter swimming yeah
1:03:13 beginning it's like winter swimming yeah
1:03:13 beginning it's like winter swimming yeah it's going to activate the brown fed
1:03:15 it's going to activate the brown fed
1:03:15 it's going to activate the brown fed right but but when we read the
1:03:17 right but but when we read the
1:03:17 right but but when we read the literature we couldn't really find
1:03:18 literature we couldn't really find
1:03:18 literature we couldn't really find anything about activation of the brown
1:03:21 anything about activation of the brown
1:03:21 anything about activation of the brown fat with cold water besides hand in a
1:03:24 fat with cold water besides hand in a
1:03:24 fat with cold water besides hand in a bucket of cold water that really that
1:03:26 bucket of cold water that really that
1:03:26 bucket of cold water that really that was already there so we were just
1:03:28 was already there so we were just
1:03:28 was already there so we were just thinking okay so it should be very
1:03:30 thinking okay so it should be very
1:03:30 thinking okay so it should be very potent um activation of the brown fat if
1:03:33 potent um activation of the brown fat if
1:03:33 potent um activation of the brown fat if it's cold water but very different from
1:03:36 it's cold water but very different from
1:03:36 it's cold water but very different from cold air so it was kind of also a new
1:03:39 cold air so it was kind of also a new
1:03:39 cold air so it was kind of also a new thing we were going into and uh we knew
1:03:42 thing we were going into and uh we knew
1:03:42 thing we were going into and uh we knew that we were going to do like a more of
1:03:43 that we were going to do like a more of
1:03:44 that we were going to do like a more of a um proof of concept study um at the
1:03:47 a um proof of concept study um at the
1:03:47 a um proof of concept study um at the beginning of it because it was like
1:03:49 beginning of it because it was like
1:03:49 beginning of it because it was like winter swimmers um must in theory
1:03:53 winter swimmers um must in theory
1:03:53 winter swimmers um must in theory activate the brown fat right but we kind
1:03:55 activate the brown fat right but we kind
1:03:55 activate the brown fat right but we kind of didn't really know was was this kind
1:03:57 of didn't really know was was this kind
1:03:58 of didn't really know was was this kind of stressor too much too little or what
1:04:00 of stressor too much too little or what
1:04:00 of stressor too much too little or what will happen actually but we had this
1:04:02 will happen actually but we had this
1:04:02 will happen actually but we had this idea about well we always say that cold
1:04:05 idea about well we always say that cold
1:04:05 idea about well we always say that cold water and winter swimming will activate
1:04:06 water and winter swimming will activate
1:04:06 water and winter swimming will activate your metabolism but do but do we know if
1:04:08 your metabolism but do but do we know if
1:04:09 your metabolism but do but do we know if it do does that no we don't so um and
1:04:13 it do does that no we don't so um and
1:04:14 it do does that no we don't so um and while this idea was a little bit fun fun
1:04:16 while this idea was a little bit fun fun
1:04:16 while this idea was a little bit fun fun at the beginning um we kind of accepted
1:04:18 at the beginning um we kind of accepted
1:04:18 at the beginning um we kind of accepted it was like okay let's just try this out
1:04:21 it was like okay let's just try this out
1:04:21 it was like okay let's just try this out but because we didn't have the funding
1:04:22 but because we didn't have the funding
1:04:22 but because we didn't have the funding for it we was like okay let's do a proof
1:04:24 for it we was like okay let's do a proof
1:04:24 for it we was like okay let's do a proof of concept study uh um let's go with a
1:04:27 of concept study uh um let's go with a
1:04:27 of concept study uh um let's go with a small number but enough to see um a
1:04:30 small number but enough to see um a
1:04:30 small number but enough to see um a difference between the groups so the
1:04:32 difference between the groups so the
1:04:32 difference between the groups so the power calculation of that study is done
1:04:35 power calculation of that study is done
1:04:35 power calculation of that study is done on uh what we know uh from pet C
1:04:38 on uh what we know uh from pet C
1:04:38 on uh what we know uh from pet C scannings of the brown fat so that's the
1:04:41 scannings of the brown fat so that's the
1:04:41 scannings of the brown fat so that's the main outcome of that of course
1:04:43 main outcome of that of course
1:04:43 main outcome of that of course so um and we wanted to go a little bit
1:04:46 so um and we wanted to go a little bit
1:04:46 so um and we wanted to go a little bit smaller on the numbers of of
1:04:47 smaller on the numbers of of
1:04:47 smaller on the numbers of of participants because we wanted to dig a
1:04:50 participants because we wanted to dig a
1:04:50 participants because we wanted to dig a little bit deeper into the different
1:04:51 little bit deeper into the different
1:04:51 little bit deeper into the different mechanisms and also redo some of the the
1:04:55 mechanisms and also redo some of the the
1:04:55 mechanisms and also redo some of the the dat so I really wanted to do that to see
1:04:57 dat so I really wanted to do that to see
1:04:57 dat so I really wanted to do that to see if I can replicate also the findings and
1:05:00 if I can replicate also the findings and
1:05:00 if I can replicate also the findings and that's going to take a lot of a lot of
1:05:02 that's going to take a lot of a lot of
1:05:02 that's going to take a lot of a lot of funding but it's also going to take a
1:05:03 funding but it's also going to take a
1:05:03 funding but it's also going to take a lot of time to do it um so the proof of
1:05:06 lot of time to do it um so the proof of
1:05:06 lot of time to do it um so the proof of concept was just going small but looking
1:05:09 concept was just going small but looking
1:05:09 concept was just going small but looking at different mechanisms we also took um
1:05:12 at different mechanisms we also took um
1:05:12 at different mechanisms we also took um fat biopsies for example and looked at
1:05:14 fat biopsies for example and looked at
1:05:14 fat biopsies for example and looked at the white fat to see if there was any
1:05:16 the white fat to see if there was any
1:05:16 the white fat to see if there was any differences between the groups before
1:05:18 differences between the groups before
1:05:18 differences between the groups before and after and stuff like that so that's
1:05:20 and after and stuff like that so that's
1:05:20 and after and stuff like that so that's kind of like how it started and and the
1:05:22 kind of like how it started and and the
1:05:22 kind of like how it started and and the first year was like a field study for me
1:05:25 first year was like a field study for me
1:05:25 first year was like a field study for me so I was not a winter swimmer when I
1:05:27 so I was not a winter swimmer when I
1:05:27 so I was not a winter swimmer when I started this it was just oh really no I
1:05:29 started this it was just oh really no I
1:05:29 started this it was just oh really no I wasn't um at all and I would say I was a
1:05:31 wasn't um at all and I would say I was a
1:05:31 wasn't um at all and I would say I was a bit afraid of the cold myself um bit of
1:05:34 bit afraid of the cold myself um bit of
1:05:34 bit afraid of the cold myself um bit of a cold always cold having big
1:05:37 a cold always cold having big
1:05:37 a cold always cold having big socks on and sweaters and stuff like
1:05:39 socks on and sweaters and stuff like
1:05:39 socks on and sweaters and stuff like that so I was like I am so comfortable
1:05:41 that so I was like I am so comfortable
1:05:41 that so I was like I am so comfortable I'm just like everybody else very
1:05:43 I'm just like everybody else very
1:05:43 I'm just like everybody else very comfortable I like being completely
1:05:45 comfortable I like being completely
1:05:45 comfortable I like being completely temperature neutral um but I started
1:05:47 temperature neutral um but I started
1:05:47 temperature neutral um but I started like playing with this thought like well
1:05:49 like playing with this thought like well
1:05:49 like playing with this thought like well if this is so healthy in theory I should
1:05:52 if this is so healthy in theory I should
1:05:52 if this is so healthy in theory I should not pack myself up I should start not
1:05:55 not pack myself up I should start not
1:05:55 not pack myself up I should start not doing that yeah but the first year
1:05:58 doing that yeah but the first year
1:05:58 doing that yeah but the first year observation of winter swimmers on the
1:06:01 observation of winter swimmers on the
1:06:01 observation of winter swimmers on the jetty they kind of joked about it say
1:06:03 jetty they kind of joked about it say
1:06:03 jetty they kind of joked about it say come on you need to try this you cannot
1:06:05 come on you need to try this you cannot
1:06:05 come on you need to try this you cannot study this unless you have tried it and
1:06:08 study this unless you have tried it and
1:06:08 study this unless you have tried it and I was like haha very funny of course I
1:06:10 I was like haha very funny of course I
1:06:10 I was like haha very funny of course I can do
1:06:11 can do
1:06:11 can do that but I couldn't I I read the
1:06:14 that but I couldn't I I read the
1:06:14 that but I couldn't I I read the literature I understood in theory what
1:06:16 literature I understood in theory what
1:06:16 literature I understood in theory what happens when you go into cold water but
1:06:19 happens when you go into cold water but
1:06:19 happens when you go into cold water but I completely understood it when I first
1:06:21 I completely understood it when I first
1:06:22 I completely understood it when I first tried it the first few times not so
1:06:24 tried it the first few times not so
1:06:24 tried it the first few times not so funny it felt painful it was just like
1:06:27 funny it felt painful it was just like
1:06:27 funny it felt painful it was just like running too long uh after a long break
1:06:30 running too long uh after a long break
1:06:30 running too long uh after a long break and you and your muscles hurt the day
1:06:32 and you and your muscles hurt the day
1:06:32 and you and your muscles hurt the day after right you you completely regret
1:06:34 after right you you completely regret
1:06:34 after right you you completely regret that you took that extra mile what about
1:06:36 that you took that extra mile what about
1:06:36 that you took that extra mile what about when you say uncomfortable you mean
1:06:38 when you say uncomfortable you mean
1:06:38 when you say uncomfortable you mean uncomfortable when you got in and when
1:06:40 uncomfortable when you got in and when
1:06:40 uncomfortable when you got in and when you were in or uncomfortable afterwards
1:06:42 you were in or uncomfortable afterwards
1:06:42 you were in or uncomfortable afterwards because I find that um on rare occasions
1:06:47 because I find that um on rare occasions
1:06:47 because I find that um on rare occasions well I should just full disclosure I I
1:06:49 well I should just full disclosure I I
1:06:49 well I should just full disclosure I I do deliberate cold exposure every
1:06:51 do deliberate cold exposure every
1:06:51 do deliberate cold exposure every morning for about a minute to two
1:06:53 morning for about a minute to two
1:06:53 morning for about a minute to two minutes in a cold plunge there are days
1:06:55 minutes in a cold plunge there are days
1:06:55 minutes in a cold plunge there are days that I miss but when I'm at home I do
1:06:58 that I miss but when I'm at home I do
1:06:58 that I miss but when I'm at home I do that and when I travel I do a cold
1:06:59 that and when I travel I do a cold
1:06:59 that and when I travel I do a cold shower I do finish with a warm shower so
1:07:03 shower I do finish with a warm shower so
1:07:03 shower I do finish with a warm shower so um and we'll talk about why that's
1:07:04 um and we'll talk about why that's
1:07:04 um and we'll talk about why that's probably not the best idea but um and
1:07:07 probably not the best idea but um and
1:07:07 probably not the best idea but um and I've been doing it for some years now um
1:07:09 I've been doing it for some years now um
1:07:09 I've been doing it for some years now um on and off uh but so just full
1:07:12 on and off uh but so just full
1:07:13 on and off uh but so just full disclosure I'm a devotee um and I have
1:07:16 disclosure I'm a devotee um and I have
1:07:16 disclosure I'm a devotee um and I have family members that uh hate the the cold
1:07:19 family members that uh hate the the cold
1:07:19 family members that uh hate the the cold but have gotten into it and and are
1:07:21 but have gotten into it and and are
1:07:21 but have gotten into it and and are starting to like it but they don't and I
1:07:23 starting to like it but they don't and I
1:07:23 starting to like it but they don't and I don't necessarily like the experience in
1:07:25 don't necessarily like the experience in
1:07:26 don't necessarily like the experience in the cold water but I love the way I feel
1:07:28 the cold water but I love the way I feel
1:07:28 the cold water but I love the way I feel when I get out and I have I'm 100% on
1:07:32 when I get out and I have I'm 100% on
1:07:32 when I get out and I have I'm 100% on that statement about loving it when I
1:07:34 that statement about loving it when I
1:07:34 that statement about loving it when I get out occasionally it feels good to be
1:07:36 get out occasionally it feels good to be
1:07:36 get out occasionally it feels good to be in there it feels invigorating and I
1:07:37 in there it feels invigorating and I
1:07:37 in there it feels invigorating and I think I've learned to control the gasp
1:07:39 think I've learned to control the gasp
1:07:39 think I've learned to control the gasp reflex and the hyperventilation and I
1:07:41 reflex and the hyperventilation and I
1:07:41 reflex and the hyperventilation and I just have told myself what we know which
1:07:43 just have told myself what we know which
1:07:43 just have told myself what we know which is that the forebrain struggles to
1:07:45 is that the forebrain struggles to
1:07:45 is that the forebrain struggles to engage for the first 20 or 30 seconds
1:07:47 engage for the first 20 or 30 seconds
1:07:47 engage for the first 20 or 30 seconds but if you can get past that wall it's
1:07:49 but if you can get past that wall it's
1:07:49 but if you can get past that wall it's it's far easier to to push through um
1:07:52 it's far easier to to push through um
1:07:52 it's far easier to to push through um but when you say that it was really
1:07:54 but when you say that it was really
1:07:54 but when you say that it was really uncomfortable do you mean the experience
1:07:56 uncomfortable do you mean the experience
1:07:56 uncomfortable do you mean the experience of getting in or you also felt lousy
1:07:59 of getting in or you also felt lousy
1:07:59 of getting in or you also felt lousy afterward yeah it's and very important
1:08:02 afterward yeah it's and very important
1:08:02 afterward yeah it's and very important to clear that out I only felt very
1:08:04 to clear that out I only felt very
1:08:04 to clear that out I only felt very uncomfortable doing it at the moment but
1:08:07 uncomfortable doing it at the moment but
1:08:07 uncomfortable doing it at the moment but afterwards the first time I went uh with
1:08:10 afterwards the first time I went uh with
1:08:10 afterwards the first time I went uh with with a group and actually my husband was
1:08:12 with a group and actually my husband was
1:08:12 with a group and actually my husband was there as well because I I really wanted
1:08:14 there as well because I I really wanted
1:08:14 there as well because I I really wanted someone I knew um coming alone because
1:08:17 someone I knew um coming alone because
1:08:17 someone I knew um coming alone because it's very normal if you haven't done
1:08:18 it's very normal if you haven't done
1:08:18 it's very normal if you haven't done this before you feel a little bit
1:08:20 this before you feel a little bit
1:08:20 this before you feel a little bit anxious about it didn't this is shown in
1:08:22 anxious about it didn't this is shown in
1:08:22 anxious about it didn't this is shown in studies as well because blood pressure
1:08:23 studies as well because blood pressure
1:08:23 studies as well because blood pressure and heart rate goes up in in those who
1:08:25 and heart rate goes up in in those who
1:08:25 and heart rate goes up in in those who are new to this kind of activity so um I
1:08:28 are new to this kind of activity so um I
1:08:28 are new to this kind of activity so um I was a little bit anxious about it so it
1:08:31 was a little bit anxious about it so it
1:08:31 was a little bit anxious about it so it was really uncomfortable just doing it
1:08:32 was really uncomfortable just doing it
1:08:33 was really uncomfortable just doing it but afterwards as soon as I got up I
1:08:35 but afterwards as soon as I got up I
1:08:35 but afterwards as soon as I got up I felt fantastic and we went into the SAA
1:08:38 felt fantastic and we went into the SAA
1:08:38 felt fantastic and we went into the SAA and I did three rounds because I just
1:08:41 and I did three rounds because I just
1:08:41 and I did three rounds because I just loved it I love the feeling afterwards
1:08:43 loved it I love the feeling afterwards
1:08:43 loved it I love the feeling afterwards because you have all these neutr
1:08:45 because you have all these neutr
1:08:45 because you have all these neutr transmitters going in your brain and you
1:08:46 transmitters going in your brain and you
1:08:46 transmitters going in your brain and you feel more positive you feel I feel
1:08:49 feel more positive you feel I feel
1:08:49 feel more positive you feel I feel invigorate I had so much energy uh and
1:08:51 invigorate I had so much energy uh and
1:08:51 invigorate I had so much energy uh and that like I I could totally see why
1:08:54 that like I I could totally see why
1:08:54 that like I I could totally see why people would do this to get energy
1:08:55 people would do this to get energy
1:08:56 people would do this to get energy throughout the day because I definitely
1:08:58 throughout the day because I definitely
1:08:58 throughout the day because I definitely had that I didn't have to do three dips
1:09:00 had that I didn't have to do three dips
1:09:00 had that I didn't have to do three dips to to get that I think one would be
1:09:02 to to get that I think one would be
1:09:02 to to get that I think one would be enough and I often do that also now
1:09:05 enough and I often do that also now
1:09:05 enough and I often do that also now today I do one dip sometimes I do two or
1:09:07 today I do one dip sometimes I do two or
1:09:07 today I do one dip sometimes I do two or three uh dips um in in one round you can
1:09:11 three uh dips um in in one round you can
1:09:11 three uh dips um in in one round you can say one day but uh often it's like just
1:09:13 say one day but uh often it's like just
1:09:14 say one day but uh often it's like just one or two times a week for me that is
1:09:16 one or two times a week for me that is
1:09:16 one or two times a week for me that is enough to to get that energy and to get
1:09:19 enough to to get that energy and to get
1:09:19 enough to to get that energy and to get that positive feeling and and I think
1:09:22 that positive feeling and and I think
1:09:22 that positive feeling and and I think that that is also why I I put up my
1:09:25 that that is also why I I put up my
1:09:25 that that is also why I I put up my study in that way I wanted to study the
1:09:28 study in that way I wanted to study the
1:09:28 study in that way I wanted to study the lowest dose you can say the lowest
1:09:31 lowest dose you can say the lowest
1:09:31 lowest dose you can say the lowest amount that we can get away with but
1:09:32 amount that we can get away with but
1:09:33 amount that we can get away with but still see um health benefits so what I
1:09:37 still see um health benefits so what I
1:09:37 still see um health benefits so what I observed there on the jetty was that
1:09:39 observed there on the jetty was that
1:09:39 observed there on the jetty was that some did it a long time they were in the
1:09:40 some did it a long time they were in the
1:09:40 some did it a long time they were in the water for a very long time and to me it
1:09:42 water for a very long time and to me it
1:09:42 water for a very long time and to me it seemed maybe a little bit extreme could
1:09:44 seemed maybe a little bit extreme could
1:09:44 seemed maybe a little bit extreme could you give me an example of long time well
1:09:46 you give me an example of long time well
1:09:46 you give me an example of long time well so maybe they were like really swimming
1:09:48 so maybe they were like really swimming
1:09:48 so maybe they were like really swimming and they could be 20 minutes or half an
1:09:50 and they could be 20 minutes or half an
1:09:50 and they could be 20 minutes or half an hour that's a long time that's a long
1:09:52 hour that's a long time that's a long
1:09:52 hour that's a long time that's a long time and there was like ice and people
1:09:54 time and there was like ice and people
1:09:54 time and there was like ice and people who came up I I mean I just didn't
1:09:58 who came up I I mean I just didn't
1:09:58 who came up I I mean I just didn't really feel that this is a something
1:09:59 really feel that this is a something
1:09:59 really feel that this is a something that I wanted to go out and recommend to
1:10:02 that I wanted to go out and recommend to
1:10:02 that I wanted to go out and recommend to people after my research subject dying
1:10:04 people after my research subject dying
1:10:04 people after my research subject dying either because if you're not adapted I
1:10:06 either because if you're not adapted I
1:10:06 either because if you're not adapted I mean people you know people can do that
1:10:08 mean people you know people can do that
1:10:08 mean people you know people can do that also a 20 minute cold shower or 20
1:10:10 also a 20 minute cold shower or 20
1:10:10 also a 20 minute cold shower or 20 minute cold plunge I know people do it
1:10:12 minute cold plunge I know people do it
1:10:12 minute cold plunge I know people do it but it's probably not a good idea no
1:10:15 but it's probably not a good idea no
1:10:15 but it's probably not a good idea no probably not it's going to exhaust your
1:10:16 probably not it's going to exhaust your
1:10:16 probably not it's going to exhaust your cells and a make them age too fast so
1:10:20 cells and a make them age too fast so
1:10:20 cells and a make them age too fast so exactly that's uh when you pass that
1:10:22 exactly that's uh when you pass that
1:10:22 exactly that's uh when you pass that htic stress this the healthy stress
1:10:24 htic stress this the healthy stress
1:10:24 htic stress this the healthy stress level that that's what is happening the
1:10:26 level that that's what is happening the
1:10:26 level that that's what is happening the quite opposite is it's a almost chronic
1:10:29 quite opposite is it's a almost chronic
1:10:29 quite opposite is it's a almost chronic stress actually in the cells well what
1:10:31 stress actually in the cells well what
1:10:31 stress actually in the cells well what happened then was that um I found out
1:10:34 happened then was that um I found out
1:10:34 happened then was that um I found out that if I want to have this protocol get
1:10:36 that if I want to have this protocol get
1:10:36 that if I want to have this protocol get through ethical committee I I really
1:10:39 through ethical committee I I really
1:10:39 through ethical committee I I really needed to go like very like Sleek with
1:10:42 needed to go like very like Sleek with
1:10:42 needed to go like very like Sleek with the not too long and and make sure that
1:10:44 the not too long and and make sure that
1:10:44 the not too long and and make sure that they were also very healthy and and to
1:10:47 they were also very healthy and and to
1:10:47 they were also very healthy and and to get approval of course of this study um
1:10:49 get approval of course of this study um
1:10:49 get approval of course of this study um but what I did was to to recruit winter
1:10:52 but what I did was to to recruit winter
1:10:53 but what I did was to to recruit winter swimmers who already have been swimming
1:10:55 swimmers who already have been swimming
1:10:55 swimmers who already have been swimming for two or three seasons and I just
1:10:57 for two or three seasons and I just
1:10:57 for two or three seasons and I just observed them I said I'm not going to do
1:10:59 observed them I said I'm not going to do
1:10:59 observed them I said I'm not going to do an intervention study yet I did that
1:11:01 an intervention study yet I did that
1:11:01 an intervention study yet I did that after but I I wanted to do like a proof
1:11:04 after but I I wanted to do like a proof
1:11:04 after but I I wanted to do like a proof of concept where they were already
1:11:06 of concept where they were already
1:11:06 of concept where they were already adapted to the cold and then compare
1:11:08 adapted to the cold and then compare
1:11:08 adapted to the cold and then compare them to a match control group who were
1:11:10 them to a match control group who were
1:11:10 them to a match control group who were matched on um on you can say diet so
1:11:14 matched on um on you can say diet so
1:11:14 matched on um on you can say diet so were they vegetarian or not um and one
1:11:17 were they vegetarian or not um and one
1:11:17 were they vegetarian or not um and one of them was in each group U also they
1:11:20 of them was in each group U also they
1:11:20 of them was in each group U also they weren't all vegetarians no no no just
1:11:22 weren't all vegetarians no no no just
1:11:22 weren't all vegetarians no no no just one in each group I going to say with
1:11:24 one in each group I going to say with
1:11:24 one in each group I going to say with all the amazing fish meat in uh in
1:11:26 all the amazing fish meat in uh in
1:11:26 all the amazing fish meat in uh in Denmark I'd have a hard time being a
1:11:28 Denmark I'd have a hard time being a
1:11:28 Denmark I'd have a hard time being a vegetarian the breads are amazing the
1:11:30 vegetarian the breads are amazing the
1:11:30 vegetarian the breads are amazing the fruits and vegetables too but okay so
1:11:31 fruits and vegetables too but okay so
1:11:31 fruits and vegetables too but okay so there were a couple vegetarians in each
1:11:33 there were a couple vegetarians in each
1:11:33 there were a couple vegetarians in each group yeah one one in each yeah okay and
1:11:35 group yeah one one in each yeah okay and
1:11:35 group yeah one one in each yeah okay and then token vegetarian I have family
1:11:38 then token vegetarian I have family
1:11:38 then token vegetarian I have family members are vegetarian so I'm just
1:11:39 members are vegetarian so I'm just
1:11:39 members are vegetarian so I'm just poking
1:11:41 poking
1:11:41 poking fun yeah but they were they were matched
1:11:43 fun yeah but they were they were matched
1:11:43 fun yeah but they were they were matched on different things so what we usually
1:11:45 on different things so what we usually
1:11:45 on different things so what we usually match the mono is also BMI um we chose
1:11:49 match the mono is also BMI um we chose
1:11:49 match the mono is also BMI um we chose one gender in this study and we would
1:11:53 one gender in this study and we would
1:11:53 one gender in this study and we would always choose both men and women nor
1:11:55 always choose both men and women nor
1:11:55 always choose both men and women nor normally but we do see that there are
1:11:57 normally but we do see that there are
1:11:57 normally but we do see that there are different Brown fat levels uh depending
1:12:00 different Brown fat levels uh depending
1:12:00 different Brown fat levels uh depending on gender so women have more Brown fat
1:12:02 on gender so women have more Brown fat
1:12:02 on gender so women have more Brown fat than men really H yeah interesting yeah
1:12:06 than men really H yeah interesting yeah
1:12:06 than men really H yeah interesting yeah I think it's interesting uh that
1:12:08 I think it's interesting uh that
1:12:08 I think it's interesting uh that deserves study yeah yeah why actually I
1:12:11 deserves study yeah yeah why actually I
1:12:11 deserves study yeah yeah why actually I think it's interesting because women are
1:12:13 think it's interesting because women are
1:12:13 think it's interesting because women are also smaller so in size and mass right
1:12:17 also smaller so in size and mass right
1:12:17 also smaller so in size and mass right but they also have um a lower peripheral
1:12:20 but they also have um a lower peripheral
1:12:20 but they also have um a lower peripheral temperature especially on hands and ears
1:12:22 temperature especially on hands and ears
1:12:22 temperature especially on hands and ears and is that right that's that's
1:12:23 and is that right that's that's
1:12:23 and is that right that's that's documented that women do run colder than
1:12:26 documented that women do run colder than
1:12:26 documented that women do run colder than men yeah and there's physiologically I
1:12:28 men yeah and there's physiologically I
1:12:28 men yeah and there's physiologically I didn't say psychologically no no no we
1:12:30 didn't say psychologically no no no we
1:12:30 didn't say psychologically no no no we won't we won't go to the psychological
1:12:32 won't we won't go to the psychological
1:12:32 won't we won't go to the psychological cold cold heat that's different
1:12:35 cold cold heat that's different
1:12:35 cold cold heat that's different something else that's a different
1:12:36 something else that's a different
1:12:36 something else that's a different podcast yeah another time so women are
1:12:40 podcast yeah another time so women are
1:12:40 podcast yeah another time so women are just colder physically uh so on hands
1:12:42 just colder physically uh so on hands
1:12:42 just colder physically uh so on hands and ears it's measured on that um and
1:12:45 and ears it's measured on that um and
1:12:45 and ears it's measured on that um and and and feet as well so compared to men
1:12:48 and and feet as well so compared to men
1:12:48 and and feet as well so compared to men and men have bigger Hearts than women
1:12:51 and men have bigger Hearts than women
1:12:51 and men have bigger Hearts than women and they can pump out more blood uh
1:12:54 and they can pump out more blood uh
1:12:54 and they can pump out more blood uh peripher than in a woman's body so they
1:12:57 peripher than in a woman's body so they
1:12:58 peripher than in a woman's body so they that could be an explanation for the
1:12:59 that could be an explanation for the
1:12:59 that could be an explanation for the colder hands for example theroc
1:13:01 colder hands for example theroc
1:13:01 colder hands for example theroc comfortable state is also different
1:13:03 comfortable state is also different
1:13:03 comfortable state is also different between G genders so men are more
1:13:06 between G genders so men are more
1:13:06 between G genders so men are more comfortable at 22° Cel and women are
1:13:10 comfortable at 22° Cel and women are
1:13:10 comfortable at 22° Cel and women are therm comfortable at 24 degrees celius
1:13:13 therm comfortable at 24 degrees celius
1:13:14 therm comfortable at 24 degrees celius and this okay so the thermostat Wars of
1:13:15 and this okay so the thermostat Wars of
1:13:15 and this okay so the thermostat Wars of home have been now validated yes yes
1:13:19 home have been now validated yes yes
1:13:19 home have been now validated yes yes there's a 2 degrees C by the way prior
1:13:21 there's a 2 degrees C by the way prior
1:13:21 there's a 2 degrees C by the way prior to um starting recording uh I made the
1:13:24 to um starting recording uh I made the
1:13:24 to um starting recording uh I made the executive decision that we were going to
1:13:26 executive decision that we were going to
1:13:26 executive decision that we were going to go with Celsius throughout the podcast
1:13:28 go with Celsius throughout the podcast
1:13:29 go with Celsius throughout the podcast um because the majority of the world
1:13:31 um because the majority of the world
1:13:31 um because the majority of the world uses Celsius so for those of you that
1:13:33 uses Celsius so for those of you that
1:13:33 uses Celsius so for those of you that think in Fahrenheit um the internet is
1:13:36 think in Fahrenheit um the internet is
1:13:36 think in Fahrenheit um the internet is your friend in making those conversions
1:13:38 your friend in making those conversions
1:13:38 your friend in making those conversions so we're sticking with Celsius so men
1:13:40 so we're sticking with Celsius so men
1:13:40 so we're sticking with Celsius so men tend to be Thermo comfortable at 22
1:13:42 tend to be Thermo comfortable at 22
1:13:42 tend to be Thermo comfortable at 22 degrees C women at
1:13:45 degrees C women at
1:13:45 degrees C women at 24 okay interesting explains a lot about
1:13:48 24 okay interesting explains a lot about
1:13:48 24 okay interesting explains a lot about like also some arguments in the homes
1:13:51 like also some arguments in the homes
1:13:51 like also some arguments in the homes where men are turning down the heater
1:13:52 where men are turning down the heater
1:13:52 where men are turning down the heater and women are turning up the heater and
1:13:55 and women are turning up the heater and
1:13:55 and women are turning up the heater and they cannot really so it's it's really
1:13:57 they cannot really so it's it's really
1:13:57 they cannot really so it's it's really it's I'm on both sides here I understand
1:13:59 it's I'm on both sides here I understand
1:13:59 it's I'm on both sides here I understand the men we understand the women but it's
1:14:01 the men we understand the women but it's
1:14:01 the men we understand the women but it's there is a difference there which was
1:14:03 there is a difference there which was
1:14:03 there is a difference there which was also one of the reasons why we had we in
1:14:06 also one of the reasons why we had we in
1:14:06 also one of the reasons why we had we in this proof of concept study chose one
1:14:07 this proof of concept study chose one
1:14:07 this proof of concept study chose one gender so it is not like only because we
1:14:10 gender so it is not like only because we
1:14:10 gender so it is not like only because we wanted to study men it was just to see
1:14:12 wanted to study men it was just to see
1:14:12 wanted to study men it was just to see to eliminate H all the confounding
1:14:15 to eliminate H all the confounding
1:14:15 to eliminate H all the confounding factors which could have an impact on on
1:14:18 factors which could have an impact on on
1:14:18 factors which could have an impact on on our results so um that was one of the
1:14:21 our results so um that was one of the
1:14:21 our results so um that was one of the reasons um but also because we
1:14:25 reasons um but also because we
1:14:25 reasons um but also because we yeah so women have have more Brown fat
1:14:27 yeah so women have have more Brown fat
1:14:27 yeah so women have have more Brown fat than men and otherwise we would have to
1:14:29 than men and otherwise we would have to
1:14:29 than men and otherwise we would have to like do four groups or something like
1:14:31 like do four groups or something like
1:14:31 like do four groups or something like that and not having funding yet we were
1:14:33 that and not having funding yet we were
1:14:33 that and not having funding yet we were like okay we need to do like just one a
1:14:36 like okay we need to do like just one a
1:14:36 like okay we need to do like just one a group just a control group and then a
1:14:38 group just a control group and then a
1:14:38 group just a control group and then a and a group who will always to Winter
1:14:41 and a group who will always to Winter
1:14:41 and a group who will always to Winter swimmers so I recruited winter swimmers
1:14:43 swimmers so I recruited winter swimmers
1:14:43 swimmers so I recruited winter swimmers who have been swimming for two to three
1:14:44 who have been swimming for two to three
1:14:44 who have been swimming for two to three seasons um because I wanted them to be
1:14:47 seasons um because I wanted them to be
1:14:48 seasons um because I wanted them to be already adapted but not going too long
1:14:51 already adapted but not going too long
1:14:51 already adapted but not going too long in the water so they told me uh I did a
1:14:54 in the water so they told me uh I did a
1:14:54 in the water so they told me uh I did a lot of screening here of course
1:14:56 lot of screening here of course
1:14:56 lot of screening here of course beforehand and interviews to see to ask
1:14:58 beforehand and interviews to see to ask
1:14:58 beforehand and interviews to see to ask them how much do you do and um how much
1:15:01 them how much do you do and um how much
1:15:01 them how much do you do and um how much do you how long do you stay in the water
1:15:03 do you how long do you stay in the water
1:15:03 do you how long do you stay in the water and I um monitored how long that they
1:15:05 and I um monitored how long that they
1:15:05 and I um monitored how long that they didn't stay in the water and recruited
1:15:07 didn't stay in the water and recruited
1:15:07 didn't stay in the water and recruited based on um that they only did like two
1:15:10 based on um that they only did like two
1:15:10 based on um that they only did like two to three times per week it seems
1:15:12 to three times per week it seems
1:15:13 to three times per week it seems reasonable uh for for for Denmark at
1:15:15 reasonable uh for for for Denmark at
1:15:15 reasonable uh for for for Denmark at least to do that and they stayed only in
1:15:18 least to do that and they stayed only in
1:15:18 least to do that and they stayed only in the water for one to two minutes so the
1:15:21 the water for one to two minutes so the
1:15:21 the water for one to two minutes so the cast subsides very quickly and you will
1:15:24 cast subsides very quickly and you will
1:15:24 cast subsides very quickly and you will get this activation of your rest and
1:15:26 get this activation of your rest and
1:15:26 get this activation of your rest and digest system which is your parasym
1:15:28 digest system which is your parasym
1:15:28 digest system which is your parasym nervous system so the the other branch
1:15:30 nervous system so the the other branch
1:15:30 nervous system so the the other branch of your autonomous nervous system and
1:15:34 of your autonomous nervous system and
1:15:34 of your autonomous nervous system and you get that activation because you
1:15:36 you get that activation because you
1:15:36 you get that activation because you submerge into cold water and when you do
1:15:38 submerge into cold water and when you do
1:15:38 submerge into cold water and when you do that you have an activation of your
1:15:40 that you have an activation of your
1:15:41 that you have an activation of your diving response and uh that's going to
1:15:43 diving response and uh that's going to
1:15:43 diving response and uh that's going to slow down the you can say the the
1:15:46 slow down the you can say the the
1:15:46 slow down the you can say the the consumption of oxygen also in your body
1:15:48 consumption of oxygen also in your body
1:15:48 consumption of oxygen also in your body and that's going to slow down your heart
1:15:50 and that's going to slow down your heart
1:15:50 and that's going to slow down your heart rate could I pause you on this because
1:15:51 rate could I pause you on this because
1:15:52 rate could I pause you on this because I've heard this before that when we get
1:15:54 I've heard this before that when we get
1:15:54 I've heard this before that when we get into cold water shower or immersion we
1:15:56 into cold water shower or immersion we
1:15:56 into cold water shower or immersion we get this sympathetic autonomic response
1:15:58 get this sympathetic autonomic response
1:15:58 get this sympathetic autonomic response so increased blood pressure increased
1:16:00 so increased blood pressure increased
1:16:00 so increased blood pressure increased heart rate release of neopine phrine
1:16:02 heart rate release of neopine phrine
1:16:02 heart rate release of neopine phrine from the locus culus in the brain
1:16:04 from the locus culus in the brain
1:16:04 from the locus culus in the brain release of um adrenaline dopamine
1:16:07 release of um adrenaline dopamine
1:16:07 release of um adrenaline dopamine adrenaline from the from the adrenals
1:16:10 adrenaline from the from the adrenals
1:16:10 adrenaline from the from the adrenals dopamine presumably within the
1:16:12 dopamine presumably within the
1:16:12 dopamine presumably within the brain but that the parasympathetic
1:16:16 brain but that the parasympathetic
1:16:16 brain but that the parasympathetic response is activated when we put our
1:16:17 response is activated when we put our
1:16:17 response is activated when we put our face into cold water or go underwater
1:16:21 face into cold water or go underwater
1:16:21 face into cold water or go underwater and that's a calming relaxation response
1:16:24 and that's a calming relaxation response
1:16:25 and that's a calming relaxation response so this brings us back to I don't want
1:16:27 so this brings us back to I don't want
1:16:27 so this brings us back to I don't want to take us off track from you describing
1:16:28 to take us off track from you describing
1:16:28 to take us off track from you describing the study but this brings us back to the
1:16:30 the study but this brings us back to the
1:16:30 the study but this brings us back to the first question which is if I go
1:16:32 first question which is if I go
1:16:32 first question which is if I go completely underwater for a moment when
1:16:34 completely underwater for a moment when
1:16:34 completely underwater for a moment when I start my cold plunge does that change
1:16:36 I start my cold plunge does that change
1:16:36 I start my cold plunge does that change the physiological outcome as compared to
1:16:39 the physiological outcome as compared to
1:16:39 the physiological outcome as compared to if I just submerge myself up to the neck
1:16:41 if I just submerge myself up to the neck
1:16:41 if I just submerge myself up to the neck and and actually nowadays there's seems
1:16:43 and and actually nowadays there's seems
1:16:43 and and actually nowadays there's seems to be a little bit of a movement online
1:16:45 to be a little bit of a movement online
1:16:45 to be a little bit of a movement online of people putting a bowl of ice water on
1:16:47 of people putting a bowl of ice water on
1:16:47 of people putting a bowl of ice water on their countertop and submerging their
1:16:49 their countertop and submerging their
1:16:49 their countertop and submerging their face into it did you see this this a
1:16:51 face into it did you see this this a
1:16:51 face into it did you see this this a start I've was see more and more posts
1:16:52 start I've was see more and more posts
1:16:52 start I've was see more and more posts about this so um could you just touch on
1:16:54 about this so um could you just touch on
1:16:54 about this so um could you just touch on the what the dive reflex is and why it
1:16:57 the what the dive reflex is and why it
1:16:57 the what the dive reflex is and why it act perhaps activates the
1:16:59 act perhaps activates the
1:16:59 act perhaps activates the parasympathetic response this calming
1:17:01 parasympathetic response this calming
1:17:01 parasympathetic response this calming response well so the diving reflex is
1:17:04 response well so the diving reflex is
1:17:04 response well so the diving reflex is activated when you submerge into cold
1:17:06 activated when you submerge into cold
1:17:06 activated when you submerge into cold water um even just to the neck yeah or I
1:17:09 water um even just to the neck yeah or I
1:17:09 water um even just to the neck yeah or I thought you had to get your face under
1:17:11 thought you had to get your face under
1:17:11 thought you had to get your face under I'm not I'm not arguing different you're
1:17:13 I'm not I'm not arguing different you're
1:17:13 I'm not I'm not arguing different you're the expert I just want to yeah I haven't
1:17:15 the expert I just want to yeah I haven't
1:17:15 the expert I just want to yeah I haven't really I haven't read that I've just
1:17:17 really I haven't read that I've just
1:17:17 really I haven't read that I've just seen that you can activate your uh
1:17:20 seen that you can activate your uh
1:17:21 seen that you can activate your uh diving response as soon as you go
1:17:22 diving response as soon as you go
1:17:22 diving response as soon as you go underwater with your body um so you
1:17:25 underwater with your body um so you
1:17:25 underwater with your body um so you don't have to do it with your face as
1:17:27 don't have to do it with your face as
1:17:27 don't have to do it with your face as far as I understand I could I could be
1:17:29 far as I understand I could I could be
1:17:29 far as I understand I could I could be wrong though um yeah so when when you
1:17:33 wrong though um yeah so when when you
1:17:33 wrong though um yeah so when when you activate your uh diving response you
1:17:35 activate your uh diving response you
1:17:35 activate your uh diving response you will slow down your um your oxygen
1:17:38 will slow down your um your oxygen
1:17:38 will slow down your um your oxygen consumption in your body and that is
1:17:40 consumption in your body and that is
1:17:40 consumption in your body and that is because the body tries to preserve um
1:17:43 because the body tries to preserve um
1:17:43 because the body tries to preserve um oxygen so you will not get hypothermic
1:17:46 oxygen so you will not get hypothermic
1:17:46 oxygen so you will not get hypothermic too fast so it's kind of like a survival
1:17:49 too fast so it's kind of like a survival
1:17:49 too fast so it's kind of like a survival system in your body um so this survival
1:17:51 system in your body um so this survival
1:17:51 system in your body um so this survival system is very um important for us of
1:17:54 system is very um important for us of
1:17:54 system is very um important for us of course
1:17:55 course
1:17:55 course so that will be activated and because of
1:17:58 so that will be activated and because of
1:17:58 so that will be activated and because of that you will after maybe one minute or
1:18:00 that you will after maybe one minute or
1:18:00 that you will after maybe one minute or so I'm I can't be precise on that
1:18:02 so I'm I can't be precise on that
1:18:02 so I'm I can't be precise on that because I maybe also varies a bit in in
1:18:05 because I maybe also varies a bit in in
1:18:05 because I maybe also varies a bit in in humans so one to two minutes you will
1:18:07 humans so one to two minutes you will
1:18:07 humans so one to two minutes you will have full activation of the sympathetic
1:18:10 have full activation of the sympathetic
1:18:10 have full activation of the sympathetic nervous system but also the Paras
1:18:11 nervous system but also the Paras
1:18:11 nervous system but also the Paras sympatic nervous system um and that's
1:18:14 sympatic nervous system um and that's
1:18:14 sympatic nervous system um and that's going to activate for example something
1:18:15 going to activate for example something
1:18:15 going to activate for example something like serotonin in your brain which is
1:18:17 like serotonin in your brain which is
1:18:17 like serotonin in your brain which is like also good for mental balance and
1:18:20 like also good for mental balance and
1:18:20 like also good for mental balance and people feeling in mental balance
1:18:22 people feeling in mental balance
1:18:22 people feeling in mental balance afterwards they after they go up so that
1:18:24 afterwards they after they go up so that
1:18:24 afterwards they after they go up so that is like measured on
1:18:26 is like measured on
1:18:27 is like measured on a questionnaires and also measured like
1:18:30 a questionnaires and also measured like
1:18:30 a questionnaires and also measured like on on anecdotes of course people tell
1:18:32 on on anecdotes of course people tell
1:18:32 on on anecdotes of course people tell all the time that they feel good
1:18:34 all the time that they feel good
1:18:34 all the time that they feel good afterwards we need studies on this so if
1:18:36 afterwards we need studies on this so if
1:18:36 afterwards we need studies on this so if anyone's sitting out there thinking
1:18:37 anyone's sitting out there thinking
1:18:37 anyone's sitting out there thinking that's interesting then please do some
1:18:39 that's interesting then please do some
1:18:39 that's interesting then please do some studies on that yeah I agree to get more
1:18:41 studies on that yeah I agree to get more
1:18:41 studies on that yeah I agree to get more out on that yeah so you had So You
1:18:45 out on that yeah so you had So You
1:18:45 out on that yeah so you had So You observe these winter swimmers who have
1:18:47 observe these winter swimmers who have
1:18:47 observe these winter swimmers who have done this for a few seasons yeah they're
1:18:49 done this for a few seasons yeah they're
1:18:49 done this for a few seasons yeah they're coming around for a new season of winter
1:18:51 coming around for a new season of winter
1:18:51 coming around for a new season of winter swimming and you've decided to recruit
1:18:53 swimming and you've decided to recruit
1:18:53 swimming and you've decided to recruit them as subjects
1:18:55 them as subjects
1:18:55 them as subjects they are getting into cold water um
1:18:58 they are getting into cold water um
1:18:58 they are getting into cold water um climbing down a ladder or jumping into
1:19:00 climbing down a ladder or jumping into
1:19:00 climbing down a ladder or jumping into the water up to their neck yeah climbing
1:19:01 the water up to their neck yeah climbing
1:19:01 the water up to their neck yeah climbing yeah okay climbing down a ladder into
1:19:03 yeah okay climbing down a ladder into
1:19:03 yeah okay climbing down a ladder into because this is done Outdoors what a fun
1:19:04 because this is done Outdoors what a fun
1:19:04 because this is done Outdoors what a fun study to do my my graduate thesis was
1:19:07 study to do my my graduate thesis was
1:19:07 study to do my my graduate thesis was done under fluorescent lights with no
1:19:09 done under fluorescent lights with no
1:19:09 done under fluorescent lights with no windows in a in a building that uh I
1:19:11 windows in a in a building that uh I
1:19:11 windows in a in a building that uh I mean I had a ton of fun as a PhD student
1:19:13 mean I had a ton of fun as a PhD student
1:19:13 mean I had a ton of fun as a PhD student I actually lived in the laboratory as a
1:19:14 I actually lived in the laboratory as a
1:19:14 I actually lived in the laboratory as a PhD student I loved it so much but um
1:19:18 PhD student I loved it so much but um
1:19:18 PhD student I loved it so much but um not something required to do a PhD by
1:19:20 not something required to do a PhD by
1:19:20 not something required to do a PhD by the way but um they're climbing down the
1:19:22 the way but um they're climbing down the
1:19:22 the way but um they're climbing down the ladder yeah getting up to their neck
1:19:25 ladder yeah getting up to their neck
1:19:25 ladder yeah getting up to their neck staying in for one to two minutes and
1:19:27 staying in for one to two minutes and
1:19:27 staying in for one to two minutes and then getting out and how many times a
1:19:29 then getting out and how many times a
1:19:29 then getting out and how many times a week are they doing this so they do this
1:19:31 week are they doing this so they do this
1:19:31 week are they doing this so they do this two to three times per week and for each
1:19:33 two to three times per week and for each
1:19:33 two to three times per week and for each time they go each day they go H they
1:19:36 time they go each day they go H they
1:19:36 time they go each day they go H they take three rounds uh off so three dips
1:19:39 take three rounds uh off so three dips
1:19:39 take three rounds uh off so three dips and two SAA sessions so they start in
1:19:41 and two SAA sessions so they start in
1:19:41 and two SAA sessions so they start in the cold and they end in the cold water
1:19:44 the cold and they end in the cold water
1:19:44 the cold and they end in the cold water okay so it's get in for one to two
1:19:46 okay so it's get in for one to two
1:19:46 okay so it's get in for one to two minutes then get out and get into the
1:19:48 minutes then get out and get into the
1:19:48 minutes then get out and get into the sauna yeah um what is the temperature of
1:19:51 sauna yeah um what is the temperature of
1:19:51 sauna yeah um what is the temperature of the sauna uh about 80° Celsius okay
1:19:55 the sauna uh about 80° Celsius okay
1:19:55 the sauna uh about 80° Celsius okay then how long are they in the sauna so
1:19:57 then how long are they in the sauna so
1:19:57 then how long are they in the sauna so they stayed there for 10 to 15 minutes
1:20:00 they stayed there for 10 to 15 minutes
1:20:00 they stayed there for 10 to 15 minutes so depending on if they went two times
1:20:02 so depending on if they went two times
1:20:02 so depending on if they went two times per week or three times per week okay
1:20:04 per week or three times per week okay
1:20:04 per week or three times per week okay and then they get back into the cold for
1:20:06 and then they get back into the cold for
1:20:06 and then they get back into the cold for a few minutes yeah two minutes up to two
1:20:08 a few minutes yeah two minutes up to two
1:20:08 a few minutes yeah two minutes up to two minutes yeah okay then back into the
1:20:11 minutes yeah okay then back into the
1:20:11 minutes yeah okay then back into the sauna 15 minutes or so yeah then back
1:20:13 sauna 15 minutes or so yeah then back
1:20:13 sauna 15 minutes or so yeah then back into the cold for a third round yeah
1:20:15 into the cold for a third round yeah
1:20:15 into the cold for a third round yeah back into the
1:20:17 back into the
1:20:17 back into the sauna and then then they're ending on
1:20:20 sauna and then then they're ending on
1:20:20 sauna and then then they're ending on the cold and then back into the cold
1:20:21 the cold and then back into the cold
1:20:21 the cold and then back into the cold again and then ending on cold and uh and
1:20:24 again and then ending on cold and uh and
1:20:24 again and then ending on cold and uh and we'll talk about why it's important to
1:20:25 we'll talk about why it's important to
1:20:25 we'll talk about why it's important to end on cold the so-called soberg
1:20:28 end on cold the so-called soberg
1:20:28 end on cold the so-called soberg principle um how cold was the water in
1:20:31 principle um how cold was the water in
1:20:31 principle um how cold was the water in this particular given average because I
1:20:34 this particular given average because I
1:20:34 this particular given average because I realize it's outdoor winter swimming so
1:20:36 realize it's outdoor winter swimming so
1:20:36 realize it's outdoor winter swimming so it's going to vary depending on wind
1:20:37 it's going to vary depending on wind
1:20:37 it's going to vary depending on wind chill and things as well course of
1:20:39 chill and things as well course of
1:20:39 chill and things as well course of course so it's a very uncontrolled
1:20:41 course so it's a very uncontrolled
1:20:41 course so it's a very uncontrolled environment to do this kind of studi in
1:20:43 environment to do this kind of studi in
1:20:43 environment to do this kind of studi in but I wanted to do something that was
1:20:46 but I wanted to do something that was
1:20:46 but I wanted to do something that was also very close to something people can
1:20:47 also very close to something people can
1:20:47 also very close to something people can do for free going out in nature and use
1:20:50 do for free going out in nature and use
1:20:50 do for free going out in nature and use that and also have the nature like it's
1:20:52 that and also have the nature like it's
1:20:52 that and also have the nature like it's a very healthy impact on us it lowers
1:20:54 a very healthy impact on us it lowers
1:20:54 a very healthy impact on us it lowers our stress uh stress level as well so by
1:20:58 our stress uh stress level as well so by
1:20:58 our stress uh stress level as well so by doing so I also measured the temperature
1:21:01 doing so I also measured the temperature
1:21:01 doing so I also measured the temperature every time they went so I have this
1:21:03 every time they went so I have this
1:21:03 every time they went so I have this graph and it's actually in the winter
1:21:04 graph and it's actually in the winter
1:21:05 graph and it's actually in the winter swimming book it shows the temperature
1:21:06 swimming book it shows the temperature
1:21:07 swimming book it shows the temperature in Denmark going like from October to
1:21:09 in Denmark going like from October to
1:21:09 in Denmark going like from October to April and it's like starts at 12° I
1:21:13 April and it's like starts at 12° I
1:21:13 April and it's like starts at 12° I think it's around 12 12 de Celsius um
1:21:16 think it's around 12 12 de Celsius um
1:21:16 think it's around 12 12 de Celsius um the water and then it goes down to 2° in
1:21:19 the water and then it goes down to 2° in
1:21:19 the water and then it goes down to 2° in on average in January and then up again
1:21:22 on average in January and then up again
1:21:22 on average in January and then up again um so it's within the spectrum of very
1:21:24 um so it's within the spectrum of very
1:21:24 um so it's within the spectrum of very cold water I would say from around 15
1:21:27 cold water I would say from around 15
1:21:27 cold water I would say from around 15 15° Cel and and down but it was actually
1:21:31 15° Cel and and down but it was actually
1:21:31 15° Cel and and down but it was actually not colder than like 2 to four degrees
1:21:34 not colder than like 2 to four degrees
1:21:34 not colder than like 2 to four degrees like in in on average when it was the
1:21:36 like in in on average when it was the
1:21:36 like in in on average when it was the coldest so it doesn't have to be that
1:21:38 coldest so it doesn't have to be that
1:21:38 coldest so it doesn't have to be that cold to be good enough and and enough to
1:21:41 cold to be good enough and and enough to
1:21:41 cold to be good enough and and enough to activate our metabolism um and what time
1:21:44 activate our metabolism um and what time
1:21:44 activate our metabolism um and what time of day are um the participants doing
1:21:47 of day are um the participants doing
1:21:47 of day are um the participants doing this cold sauna alternation so I think
1:21:50 this cold sauna alternation so I think
1:21:50 this cold sauna alternation so I think they did this uh throughout the day so I
1:21:54 they did this uh throughout the day so I
1:21:54 they did this uh throughout the day so I didn't control whether they wanted to go
1:21:56 didn't control whether they wanted to go
1:21:56 didn't control whether they wanted to go in the morning in the afternoon or or in
1:21:58 in the morning in the afternoon or or in
1:21:58 in the morning in the afternoon or or in the evening at that time where I set up
1:22:00 the evening at that time where I set up
1:22:00 the evening at that time where I set up the study I would I was not controlling
1:22:03 the study I would I was not controlling
1:22:03 the study I would I was not controlling it in that way I wanted them to go
1:22:06 it in that way I wanted them to go
1:22:06 it in that way I wanted them to go whenever they had time and I also think
1:22:08 whenever they had time and I also think
1:22:08 whenever they had time and I also think that is the most important message to
1:22:09 that is the most important message to
1:22:09 that is the most important message to give out to give to people is when do it
1:22:11 give out to give to people is when do it
1:22:11 give out to give to people is when do it when you have time it's not if if if
1:22:15 when you have time it's not if if if
1:22:15 when you have time it's not if if if doing it a when you get home from work
1:22:17 doing it a when you get home from work
1:22:17 doing it a when you get home from work and it's 6:00 in the evening and this is
1:22:20 and it's 6:00 in the evening and this is
1:22:20 and it's 6:00 in the evening and this is the time where you are where you can do
1:22:22 the time where you are where you can do
1:22:22 the time where you are where you can do it then then then try out if it's going
1:22:24 it then then then try out if it's going
1:22:24 it then then then try out if it's going to impact your sleep or not uh if it
1:22:27 to impact your sleep or not uh if it
1:22:27 to impact your sleep or not uh if it doesn't impact your sleep then fine but
1:22:29 doesn't impact your sleep then fine but
1:22:29 doesn't impact your sleep then fine but you have to try for yourself and find
1:22:31 you have to try for yourself and find
1:22:31 you have to try for yourself and find out what works for you it's the same for
1:22:33 out what works for you it's the same for
1:22:33 out what works for you it's the same for coffee for example right some people can
1:22:35 coffee for example right some people can
1:22:35 coffee for example right some people can drink coffee in the evening and go to
1:22:36 drink coffee in the evening and go to
1:22:36 drink coffee in the evening and go to bed and they can sleep H I can't or
1:22:39 bed and they can sleep H I can't or
1:22:39 bed and they can sleep H I can't or exercise or exercise exactly so I can't
1:22:42 exercise or exercise exactly so I can't
1:22:42 exercise or exercise exactly so I can't I can't do that and that's because the
1:22:43 I can't do that and that's because the
1:22:43 I can't do that and that's because the coffee exercise cold water um immersion
1:22:46 coffee exercise cold water um immersion
1:22:47 coffee exercise cold water um immersion it's going to activate your sympathetic
1:22:48 it's going to activate your sympathetic
1:22:48 it's going to activate your sympathetic nervous system you have an increase in
1:22:50 nervous system you have an increase in
1:22:50 nervous system you have an increase in stress response in your body and and
1:22:52 stress response in your body and and
1:22:52 stress response in your body and and that's going to make it really hard to
1:22:53 that's going to make it really hard to
1:22:53 that's going to make it really hard to fall asleep for some people at least
1:22:56 fall asleep for some people at least
1:22:56 fall asleep for some people at least maybe you are super exhausted anyways
1:22:58 maybe you are super exhausted anyways
1:22:58 maybe you are super exhausted anyways and then you will just crash anyways but
1:23:00 and then you will just crash anyways but
1:23:00 and then you will just crash anyways but yeah but um that's that's the only thing
1:23:03 yeah but um that's that's the only thing
1:23:03 yeah but um that's that's the only thing so I just told them to do this if they
1:23:05 so I just told them to do this if they
1:23:05 so I just told them to do this if they can during the daytime um and that's
1:23:08 can during the daytime um and that's
1:23:08 can during the daytime um and that's primarily what they also did and then uh
1:23:12 primarily what they also did and then uh
1:23:12 primarily what they also did and then uh all along you're measuring Brown fat by
1:23:14 all along you're measuring Brown fat by
1:23:14 all along you're measuring Brown fat by way of this
1:23:15 way of this
1:23:15 way of this infrared uh camera right um so what did
1:23:19 infrared uh camera right um so what did
1:23:19 infrared uh camera right um so what did you observe in terms of changes in brown
1:23:20 you observe in terms of changes in brown
1:23:21 you observe in terms of changes in brown fat how quickly did that occur and um
1:23:24 fat how quickly did that occur and um
1:23:24 fat how quickly did that occur and um and then I'd like to ask also about
1:23:26 and then I'd like to ask also about
1:23:26 and then I'd like to ask also about sauna a bit more um because earlier you
1:23:28 sauna a bit more um because earlier you
1:23:28 sauna a bit more um because earlier you mentioned that you can activate Brown
1:23:29 mentioned that you can activate Brown
1:23:29 mentioned that you can activate Brown fat with sauna as well with heat on the
1:23:33 fat with sauna as well with heat on the
1:23:33 fat with sauna as well with heat on the surface surface of the skin um how long
1:23:37 surface surface of the skin um how long
1:23:37 surface surface of the skin um how long did it take before you observe
1:23:39 did it take before you observe
1:23:39 did it take before you observe significant increases in brown fat um
1:23:41 significant increases in brown fat um
1:23:41 significant increases in brown fat um and was it increased density of my brown
1:23:44 and was it increased density of my brown
1:23:44 and was it increased density of my brown fat or distribution was it you know
1:23:46 fat or distribution was it you know
1:23:46 fat or distribution was it you know showing expansion to different regions
1:23:48 showing expansion to different regions
1:23:48 showing expansion to different regions throughout the body and um maybe you
1:23:50 throughout the body and um maybe you
1:23:50 throughout the body and um maybe you could also touch on some of the changes
1:23:52 could also touch on some of the changes
1:23:52 could also touch on some of the changes in in insulin sensitivity and metabolism
1:23:54 in in insulin sensitivity and metabolism
1:23:54 in in insulin sensitivity and metabolism yeah a very good good question and and I
1:23:57 yeah a very good good question and and I
1:23:57 yeah a very good good question and and I didn't mention this before but besides
1:24:00 didn't mention this before but besides
1:24:00 didn't mention this before but besides measuring um temperature as an outcome
1:24:04 measuring um temperature as an outcome
1:24:04 measuring um temperature as an outcome for brown fat activity we also uh did
1:24:07 for brown fat activity we also uh did
1:24:07 for brown fat activity we also uh did pet MRI scanning of the brown fat so
1:24:10 pet MRI scanning of the brown fat so
1:24:10 pet MRI scanning of the brown fat so this is like the the golden standard uh
1:24:12 this is like the the golden standard uh
1:24:12 this is like the the golden standard uh for measuring Brown fat and it's not
1:24:14 for measuring Brown fat and it's not
1:24:14 for measuring Brown fat and it's not very feasible for normal people to get
1:24:16 very feasible for normal people to get
1:24:16 very feasible for normal people to get an an a PET CT or pit MRI scanning of
1:24:20 an an a PET CT or pit MRI scanning of
1:24:20 an an a PET CT or pit MRI scanning of the brown fat is super expensive um so
1:24:23 the brown fat is super expensive um so
1:24:23 the brown fat is super expensive um so we had both uh to see if we could have
1:24:26 we had both uh to see if we could have
1:24:27 we had both uh to see if we could have like a continuous measure of brown fat
1:24:30 like a continuous measure of brown fat
1:24:30 like a continuous measure of brown fat in humans because that was already not
1:24:32 in humans because that was already not
1:24:32 in humans because that was already not not out there so I wanted to see during
1:24:35 not out there so I wanted to see during
1:24:35 not out there so I wanted to see during both the experimental days but also
1:24:38 both the experimental days but also
1:24:38 both the experimental days but also during day and night what kind of like
1:24:41 during day and night what kind of like
1:24:41 during day and night what kind of like sadian uh Rhythm do we have in our Brown
1:24:44 sadian uh Rhythm do we have in our Brown
1:24:44 sadian uh Rhythm do we have in our Brown fat activity so that's why I wanted to
1:24:46 fat activity so that's why I wanted to
1:24:46 fat activity so that's why I wanted to have that as well so the PET CT scanning
1:24:49 have that as well so the PET CT scanning
1:24:49 have that as well so the PET CT scanning or the pet MRI scanning was to see upon
1:24:52 or the pet MRI scanning was to see upon
1:24:52 or the pet MRI scanning was to see upon code activation um stimulation for some
1:24:55 code activation um stimulation for some
1:24:55 code activation um stimulation for some hours do we have activation can we see
1:24:58 hours do we have activation can we see
1:24:58 hours do we have activation can we see the brown fat in this subject and also
1:25:01 the brown fat in this subject and also
1:25:01 the brown fat in this subject and also during thermoneutrality or thermal
1:25:03 during thermoneutrality or thermal
1:25:03 during thermoneutrality or thermal comfortable State uh how is that
1:25:05 comfortable State uh how is that
1:25:05 comfortable State uh how is that activated in each of the group of course
1:25:08 activated in each of the group of course
1:25:08 activated in each of the group of course ah so you want to see how comfortable
1:25:09 ah so you want to see how comfortable
1:25:09 ah so you want to see how comfortable people were away from the cold water and
1:25:13 people were away from the cold water and
1:25:13 people were away from the cold water and sauna just at different um temperatured
1:25:15 sauna just at different um temperatured
1:25:15 sauna just at different um temperatured environments is that right yes I also
1:25:17 environments is that right yes I also
1:25:17 environments is that right yes I also mened that how comfortable are you I I
1:25:20 mened that how comfortable are you I I
1:25:20 mened that how comfortable are you I I made this scale like visual analog scale
1:25:23 made this scale like visual analog scale
1:25:23 made this scale like visual analog scale and asked them how comfortable do you
1:25:25 and asked them how comfortable do you
1:25:25 and asked them how comfortable do you feel with this temperature um and
1:25:27 feel with this temperature um and
1:25:27 feel with this temperature um and throughout the study days during Cod
1:25:29 throughout the study days during Cod
1:25:29 throughout the study days during Cod exposure and thermal comfortable day
1:25:31 exposure and thermal comfortable day
1:25:31 exposure and thermal comfortable day that had a whole day where I just kept
1:25:33 that had a whole day where I just kept
1:25:33 that had a whole day where I just kept them therm comfortable to see do they
1:25:36 them therm comfortable to see do they
1:25:36 them therm comfortable to see do they activate the brown fat if they're just
1:25:38 activate the brown fat if they're just
1:25:38 activate the brown fat if they're just completely therm comfortable as good as
1:25:40 completely therm comfortable as good as
1:25:41 completely therm comfortable as good as we could get with that because we were
1:25:43 we could get with that because we were
1:25:43 we could get with that because we were asking people um on a scale from one one
1:25:46 asking people um on a scale from one one
1:25:46 asking people um on a scale from one one to 10 and five being theroc comfortable
1:25:48 to 10 and five being theroc comfortable
1:25:48 to 10 and five being theroc comfortable where are you on this scale so one would
1:25:51 where are you on this scale so one would
1:25:51 where are you on this scale so one would be very cold and 10 would be super
1:25:53 be very cold and 10 would be super
1:25:53 be very cold and 10 would be super burning hot um yeah and so that was a
1:25:57 burning hot um yeah and so that was a
1:25:57 burning hot um yeah and so that was a way to like try to figure out how do
1:25:59 way to like try to figure out how do
1:25:59 way to like try to figure out how do they actually feel also during the
1:26:01 they actually feel also during the
1:26:01 they actually feel also during the studies I also measured um Electro
1:26:05 studies I also measured um Electro
1:26:05 studies I also measured um Electro myography so of of muscles to see do
1:26:08 myography so of of muscles to see do
1:26:08 myography so of of muscles to see do they shiver during the cooling day uh
1:26:10 they shiver during the cooling day uh
1:26:10 they shiver during the cooling day uh sometimes people shiver before they know
1:26:12 sometimes people shiver before they know
1:26:12 sometimes people shiver before they know they're really shivering so I had
1:26:14 they're really shivering so I had
1:26:14 they're really shivering so I had interesting yeah so so our conscious
1:26:16 interesting yeah so so our conscious
1:26:16 interesting yeah so so our conscious perception of shivering might not be the
1:26:18 perception of shivering might not be the
1:26:18 perception of shivering might not be the best readout of shiver yeah well if you
1:26:21 best readout of shiver yeah well if you
1:26:21 best readout of shiver yeah well if you also get adapted to the cold water you
1:26:23 also get adapted to the cold water you
1:26:23 also get adapted to the cold water you will have
1:26:25 will have
1:26:25 will have less shivering they would be less
1:26:27 less shivering they would be less
1:26:27 less shivering they would be less vigorous they will be very small so you
1:26:30 vigorous they will be very small so you
1:26:30 vigorous they will be very small so you wouldn't probably know that you
1:26:32 wouldn't probably know that you
1:26:32 wouldn't probably know that you shivering because it's the Shivering is
1:26:33 shivering because it's the Shivering is
1:26:34 shivering because it's the Shivering is so small and the mitochondria in the
1:26:36 so small and the mitochondria in the
1:26:36 so small and the mitochondria in the muscle cells will be so densed that it
1:26:39 muscle cells will be so densed that it
1:26:39 muscle cells will be so densed that it doesn't need to shiver maybe that much
1:26:41 doesn't need to shiver maybe that much
1:26:41 doesn't need to shiver maybe that much to get that thermogenesis going um
1:26:44 to get that thermogenesis going um
1:26:44 to get that thermogenesis going um compared to when you're completely new
1:26:47 compared to when you're completely new
1:26:47 compared to when you're completely new uh to co water exposure you're not
1:26:49 uh to co water exposure you're not
1:26:49 uh to co water exposure you're not adapted then the body needs to create
1:26:52 adapted then the body needs to create
1:26:52 adapted then the body needs to create this mitochondria this energy fabric to
1:26:54 this mitochondria this energy fabric to
1:26:54 this mitochondria this energy fabric to keep you you warm and that's also what
1:26:57 keep you you warm and that's also what
1:26:57 keep you you warm and that's also what the exercise is in the beginning but um
1:27:01 the exercise is in the beginning but um
1:27:01 the exercise is in the beginning but um when we measured this we we did see that
1:27:03 when we measured this we we did see that
1:27:03 when we measured this we we did see that the winter swimmers were shivering less
1:27:06 the winter swimmers were shivering less
1:27:06 the winter swimmers were shivering less H or uh having less uh vigorous
1:27:08 H or uh having less uh vigorous
1:27:08 H or uh having less uh vigorous shivering when they said I'm cold so
1:27:11 shivering when they said I'm cold so
1:27:11 shivering when they said I'm cold so even though they they perception their
1:27:13 even though they they perception their
1:27:13 even though they they perception their perception of the cold was pretty
1:27:16 perception of the cold was pretty
1:27:16 perception of the cold was pretty similar in in the in the groups um we
1:27:19 similar in in the in the groups um we
1:27:19 similar in in the in the groups um we could see that the the activation of the
1:27:23 could see that the the activation of the
1:27:23 could see that the the activation of the the muscles that measured on um were
1:27:26 the muscles that measured on um were
1:27:26 the muscles that measured on um were different and more vigorous in the
1:27:28 different and more vigorous in the
1:27:28 different and more vigorous in the control group were the subjects
1:27:29 control group were the subjects
1:27:29 control group were the subjects incentivized to be in the study were
1:27:31 incentivized to be in the study were
1:27:31 incentivized to be in the study were they paid or anything of that sort they
1:27:33 they paid or anything of that sort they
1:27:33 they paid or anything of that sort they just happen to like doing uh cold and
1:27:35 just happen to like doing uh cold and
1:27:35 just happen to like doing uh cold and sauna and so that's why they did the
1:27:37 sauna and so that's why they did the
1:27:37 sauna and so that's why they did the study um well they got paid a little bit
1:27:40 study um well they got paid a little bit
1:27:40 study um well they got paid a little bit for it but not much and um that's how we
1:27:43 for it but not much and um that's how we
1:27:43 for it but not much and um that's how we do this St sure I was just curious yeah
1:27:46 do this St sure I was just curious yeah
1:27:46 do this St sure I was just curious yeah I was just curious there might be some
1:27:47 I was just curious there might be some
1:27:47 I was just curious there might be some folks that Wonder so so what did you
1:27:49 folks that Wonder so so what did you
1:27:49 folks that Wonder so so what did you discover in terms of changes in brown
1:27:51 discover in terms of changes in brown
1:27:51 discover in terms of changes in brown fat insulin resistance or insulin
1:27:54 fat insulin resistance or insulin
1:27:54 fat insulin resistance or insulin sensitivity rather and um metabolism so
1:27:57 sensitivity rather and um metabolism so
1:27:57 sensitivity rather and um metabolism so what we we saw was we had this kind of
1:28:00 what we we saw was we had this kind of
1:28:01 what we we saw was we had this kind of different measures uh to see what's to
1:28:03 different measures uh to see what's to
1:28:03 different measures uh to see what's to try and unre what what's actually going
1:28:05 try and unre what what's actually going
1:28:05 try and unre what what's actually going on when they are already adapted to the
1:28:07 on when they are already adapted to the
1:28:07 on when they are already adapted to the cold water compared to a control group
1:28:09 cold water compared to a control group
1:28:09 cold water compared to a control group who was matched on on various parameters
1:28:14 who was matched on on various parameters
1:28:14 who was matched on on various parameters we we did see that the winter swimmers
1:28:16 we we did see that the winter swimmers
1:28:16 we we did see that the winter swimmers had an increased insulin sensitivity
1:28:19 had an increased insulin sensitivity
1:28:19 had an increased insulin sensitivity they produced less insulin uh on all the
1:28:23 they produced less insulin uh on all the
1:28:23 they produced less insulin uh on all the experimental days so besides from just
1:28:26 experimental days so besides from just
1:28:26 experimental days so besides from just cooling them and measuring the brown fat
1:28:29 cooling them and measuring the brown fat
1:28:29 cooling them and measuring the brown fat on each of these cooling days there were
1:28:31 on each of these cooling days there were
1:28:31 on each of these cooling days there were two cooling days and one theroc
1:28:32 two cooling days and one theroc
1:28:33 two cooling days and one theroc comfortable day right so I wanted to
1:28:35 comfortable day right so I wanted to
1:28:35 comfortable day right so I wanted to measure insulin when they just they were
1:28:38 measure insulin when they just they were
1:28:38 measure insulin when they just they were fasting meaning that they hadn't eaten
1:28:40 fasting meaning that they hadn't eaten
1:28:40 fasting meaning that they hadn't eaten in uh eight hours before the study day
1:28:43 in uh eight hours before the study day
1:28:43 in uh eight hours before the study day um and they were completely laying still
1:28:47 um and they were completely laying still
1:28:47 um and they were completely laying still not moving just in a bed um and we
1:28:49 not moving just in a bed um and we
1:28:49 not moving just in a bed um and we measured insulin uh during the
1:28:51 measured insulin uh during the
1:28:51 measured insulin uh during the experimental day just to see how
1:28:54 experimental day just to see how
1:28:54 experimental day just to see how what level are they on and we could see
1:28:56 what level are they on and we could see
1:28:56 what level are they on and we could see that the the the winter swim it had
1:28:58 that the the the winter swim it had
1:28:58 that the the the winter swim it had lower production of insulin and they
1:29:01 lower production of insulin and they
1:29:01 lower production of insulin and they also when they had an glucose drink so
1:29:04 also when they had an glucose drink so
1:29:04 also when they had an glucose drink so we give them that to see if they to test
1:29:06 we give them that to see if they to test
1:29:06 we give them that to see if they to test before we enroll them in studies to see
1:29:08 before we enroll them in studies to see
1:29:08 before we enroll them in studies to see if they have diabetes for example and
1:29:10 if they have diabetes for example and
1:29:10 if they have diabetes for example and not knowing for example that that
1:29:12 not knowing for example that that
1:29:12 not knowing for example that that wouldn't that would like ruin maybe the
1:29:14 wouldn't that would like ruin maybe the
1:29:14 wouldn't that would like ruin maybe the studies so we test for that and see if
1:29:17 studies so we test for that and see if
1:29:17 studies so we test for that and see if they have like a normal curve so what we
1:29:20 they have like a normal curve so what we
1:29:20 they have like a normal curve so what we did see in that was that the winter
1:29:22 did see in that was that the winter
1:29:22 did see in that was that the winter swimmers had a faster glucose clearance
1:29:24 swimmers had a faster glucose clearance
1:29:24 swimmers had a faster glucose clearance in the bloodstream so after 2 hours uh
1:29:28 in the bloodstream so after 2 hours uh
1:29:28 in the bloodstream so after 2 hours uh we could see that they had a lower level
1:29:29 we could see that they had a lower level
1:29:30 we could see that they had a lower level and it went the curve went down faster
1:29:31 and it went the curve went down faster
1:29:31 and it went the curve went down faster than in the control group so despite
1:29:33 than in the control group so despite
1:29:33 than in the control group so despite having lower insulin release they have
1:29:36 having lower insulin release they have
1:29:36 having lower insulin release they have better blood glucose clearance which is
1:29:38 better blood glucose clearance which is
1:29:38 better blood glucose clearance which is really what you want what we all seek
1:29:40 really what you want what we all seek
1:29:40 really what you want what we all seek right you don't excessive insulin is bad
1:29:42 right you don't excessive insulin is bad
1:29:42 right you don't excessive insulin is bad insulin being a um more or less a
1:29:45 insulin being a um more or less a
1:29:45 insulin being a um more or less a chaperone for blood glucose um um can do
1:29:48 chaperone for blood glucose um um can do
1:29:48 chaperone for blood glucose um um can do all sorts of other things as well of
1:29:50 all sorts of other things as well of
1:29:50 all sorts of other things as well of course but um and having high blood
1:29:52 course but um and having high blood
1:29:52 course but um and having high blood glucose obviously terrible yeah for
1:29:54 glucose obviously terrible yeah for
1:29:55 glucose obviously terrible yeah for cells especially brain cells I don't
1:29:56 cells especially brain cells I don't
1:29:56 cells especially brain cells I don't think people realize how toxic high
1:29:58 think people realize how toxic high
1:29:58 think people realize how toxic high blood glucose is having high glucose is
1:30:02 blood glucose is having high glucose is
1:30:02 blood glucose is having high glucose is if you want to kill neurons you make you
1:30:05 if you want to kill neurons you make you
1:30:05 if you want to kill neurons you make you make their uh put them in an environment
1:30:07 make their uh put them in an environment
1:30:07 make their uh put them in an environment where there's too much sugar ah um oh
1:30:10 where there's too much sugar ah um oh
1:30:10 where there's too much sugar ah um oh yeah very yeah very neurotoxic I mean
1:30:12 yeah very yeah very neurotoxic I mean
1:30:12 yeah very yeah very neurotoxic I mean that's and there are mechanisms like
1:30:14 that's and there are mechanisms like
1:30:14 that's and there are mechanisms like insulin that buffer that keep you know
1:30:16 insulin that buffer that keep you know
1:30:16 insulin that buffer that keep you know keeping blood glucose in a reasonable
1:30:18 keeping blood glucose in a reasonable
1:30:18 keeping blood glucose in a reasonable range so that um it doesn't happen I
1:30:20 range so that um it doesn't happen I
1:30:20 range so that um it doesn't happen I mean I think that's why people will go
1:30:21 mean I think that's why people will go
1:30:21 mean I think that's why people will go into insulinemic shock hypoglycemic
1:30:24 into insulinemic shock hypoglycemic
1:30:24 into insulinemic shock hypoglycemic shock is also possible so that range in
1:30:26 shock is also possible so that range in
1:30:26 shock is also possible so that range in which neurons are happy is not AIT is
1:30:28 which neurons are happy is not AIT is
1:30:28 which neurons are happy is not AIT is not a tremendously large range
1:30:30 not a tremendously large range
1:30:30 not a tremendously large range incidentally the range in which neurons
1:30:32 incidentally the range in which neurons
1:30:32 incidentally the range in which neurons are are um happy and surviving uh is
1:30:36 are are um happy and surviving uh is
1:30:36 are are um happy and surviving uh is much greater as one gets colder than
1:30:38 much greater as one gets colder than
1:30:38 much greater as one gets colder than when you heat up I mean you you can
1:30:41 when you heat up I mean you you can
1:30:41 when you heat up I mean you you can basically destroy brain cells by getting
1:30:42 basically destroy brain cells by getting
1:30:42 basically destroy brain cells by getting too hot for too long oh yeah yeah you
1:30:45 too hot for too long oh yeah yeah you
1:30:45 too hot for too long oh yeah yeah you can definitely destroy brain cells
1:30:46 can definitely destroy brain cells
1:30:46 can definitely destroy brain cells permanently by getting too cold for too
1:30:48 permanently by getting too cold for too
1:30:48 permanently by getting too cold for too long but you have to get really really
1:30:50 long but you have to get really really
1:30:50 long but you have to get really really cold for a really long time yeah yeah um
1:30:52 cold for a really long time yeah yeah um
1:30:52 cold for a really long time yeah yeah um very interesting yeah we we're thinking
1:30:54 very interesting yeah we we're thinking
1:30:54 very interesting yeah we we're thinking about doing an episode on um uh sort of
1:30:58 about doing an episode on um uh sort of
1:30:58 about doing an episode on um uh sort of survival of the brain after death kind
1:31:01 survival of the brain after death kind
1:31:01 survival of the brain after death kind of things which actually happens you
1:31:02 of things which actually happens you
1:31:02 of things which actually happens you know you hear about these people who are
1:31:03 know you hear about these people who are
1:31:03 know you hear about these people who are declared dead and then come back and
1:31:05 declared dead and then come back and
1:31:05 declared dead and then come back and there is actually now a lot of
1:31:06 there is actually now a lot of
1:31:06 there is actually now a lot of cryopreservation type approaches for
1:31:09 cryopreservation type approaches for
1:31:09 cryopreservation type approaches for that this is uh anyway we risk going
1:31:11 that this is uh anyway we risk going
1:31:11 that this is uh anyway we risk going into the the uh the esoteric now so I'll
1:31:13 into the the uh the esoteric now so I'll
1:31:13 into the the uh the esoteric now so I'll steer us back to our discussion about
1:31:15 steer us back to our discussion about
1:31:15 steer us back to our discussion about your study but um so if I do the
1:31:19 your study but um so if I do the
1:31:19 your study but um so if I do the math these subjects are in the cold
1:31:22 math these subjects are in the cold
1:31:22 math these subjects are in the cold let's say they're doing three rounds of
1:31:24 let's say they're doing three rounds of
1:31:24 let's say they're doing three rounds of cold for one to two minutes three t two
1:31:27 cold for one to two minutes three t two
1:31:27 cold for one to two minutes three t two or three times a week what were the
1:31:30 or three times a week what were the
1:31:30 or three times a week what were the thresholds that you discovered were
1:31:32 thresholds that you discovered were
1:31:32 thresholds that you discovered were important for getting these positive
1:31:35 important for getting these positive
1:31:35 important for getting these positive changes in um such as reduce blood sugar
1:31:39 changes in um such as reduce blood sugar
1:31:39 changes in um such as reduce blood sugar or clearance of blood sugar um being
1:31:41 or clearance of blood sugar um being
1:31:41 or clearance of blood sugar um being more efficient uh reduced insulin um
1:31:44 more efficient uh reduced insulin um
1:31:44 more efficient uh reduced insulin um improved ground fat distribution and
1:31:46 improved ground fat distribution and
1:31:46 improved ground fat distribution and density um how much cold exposure do
1:31:49 density um how much cold exposure do
1:31:49 density um how much cold exposure do people need how much heat exposure do
1:31:51 people need how much heat exposure do
1:31:51 people need how much heat exposure do people need in order to extract these
1:31:53 people need in order to extract these
1:31:53 people need in order to extract these benefits
1:31:54 benefits
1:31:54 benefits yeah so when we then calculated the
1:31:57 yeah so when we then calculated the
1:31:57 yeah so when we then calculated the numbers together we can see that this
1:31:58 numbers together we can see that this
1:31:58 numbers together we can see that this was ended up being 11 minutes in total
1:32:01 was ended up being 11 minutes in total
1:32:01 was ended up being 11 minutes in total per week uh so not in one session of
1:32:04 per week uh so not in one session of
1:32:04 per week uh so not in one session of course but they had two to three visits
1:32:07 course but they had two to three visits
1:32:07 course but they had two to three visits to the water and the sauna per week so
1:32:10 to the water and the sauna per week so
1:32:10 to the water and the sauna per week so when we divide that out it corresponds
1:32:12 when we divide that out it corresponds
1:32:12 when we divide that out it corresponds to being in cold water one to two
1:32:14 to being in cold water one to two
1:32:14 to being in cold water one to two minutes at a time but also in the SAA 10
1:32:17 minutes at a time but also in the SAA 10
1:32:17 minutes at a time but also in the SAA 10 to 15 minutes at a time and I think this
1:32:19 to 15 minutes at a time and I think this
1:32:19 to 15 minutes at a time and I think this is very like um also similar to what we
1:32:22 is very like um also similar to what we
1:32:22 is very like um also similar to what we see in other studies when we look for
1:32:24 see in other studies when we look for
1:32:24 see in other studies when we look for example to the observational studies
1:32:26 example to the observational studies
1:32:26 example to the observational studies from the Finish cohort study from laen
1:32:30 from the Finish cohort study from laen
1:32:30 from the Finish cohort study from laen at L for example they published this
1:32:32 at L for example they published this
1:32:32 at L for example they published this very amazing paper in
1:32:34 very amazing paper in
1:32:34 very amazing paper in 2015 um some results from this long C
1:32:38 2015 um some results from this long C
1:32:38 2015 um some results from this long C study where they show that um that up to
1:32:41 study where they show that um that up to
1:32:41 study where they show that um that up to 30 minutes uh in the sauna was uh
1:32:44 30 minutes uh in the sauna was uh
1:32:44 30 minutes uh in the sauna was uh healthy and they you you lower your risk
1:32:47 healthy and they you you lower your risk
1:32:47 healthy and they you you lower your risk of cardiovascular disease and that's
1:32:49 of cardiovascular disease and that's
1:32:49 of cardiovascular disease and that's like the threshold and if you go further
1:32:51 like the threshold and if you go further
1:32:51 like the threshold and if you go further than that then there is not more uh um
1:32:55 than that then there is not more uh um
1:32:55 than that then there is not more uh um healthy benefits to to gain from that so
1:32:58 healthy benefits to to gain from that so
1:32:58 healthy benefits to to gain from that so um and before that it's like 19 minutes
1:33:00 um and before that it's like 19 minutes
1:33:01 um and before that it's like 19 minutes then you will have this dose response
1:33:03 then you will have this dose response
1:33:03 then you will have this dose response relationship up to 19 minutes that's
1:33:05 relationship up to 19 minutes that's
1:33:05 relationship up to 19 minutes that's really in decreasing your risk of
1:33:07 really in decreasing your risk of
1:33:07 really in decreasing your risk of cardiovascular diseases and I think we
1:33:10 cardiovascular diseases and I think we
1:33:10 cardiovascular diseases and I think we that's per week 90 minutes per week uh
1:33:12 that's per week 90 minutes per week uh
1:33:12 that's per week 90 minutes per week uh 90 minutes per session now per session
1:33:14 90 minutes per session now per session
1:33:14 90 minutes per session now per session yeah per session if we
1:33:17 yeah per session if we
1:33:17 yeah per session if we um uh then compare that with my study
1:33:21 um uh then compare that with my study
1:33:21 um uh then compare that with my study which was 10 to 15 minutes per session
1:33:24 which was 10 to 15 minutes per session
1:33:24 which was 10 to 15 minutes per session then I think it fits very well with what
1:33:26 then I think it fits very well with what
1:33:26 then I think it fits very well with what we call the htic stress or healthy
1:33:28 we call the htic stress or healthy
1:33:28 we call the htic stress or healthy stress you expose the cells to this kind
1:33:30 stress you expose the cells to this kind
1:33:30 stress you expose the cells to this kind of like potent very uh stressful
1:33:33 of like potent very uh stressful
1:33:33 of like potent very uh stressful situation uh where they increase heat
1:33:35 situation uh where they increase heat
1:33:36 situation uh where they increase heat shock proteins in the cells and that
1:33:37 shock proteins in the cells and that
1:33:37 shock proteins in the cells and that will repair the cells but if you then
1:33:39 will repair the cells but if you then
1:33:40 will repair the cells but if you then overdo it and you go beyond the maybe 30
1:33:42 overdo it and you go beyond the maybe 30
1:33:42 overdo it and you go beyond the maybe 30 minutes in the Sona this observational
1:33:45 minutes in the Sona this observational
1:33:45 minutes in the Sona this observational study from uh Finland with more than up
1:33:48 study from uh Finland with more than up
1:33:48 study from uh Finland with more than up to 2,000 Sona bathers where have
1:33:51 to 2,000 Sona bathers where have
1:33:51 to 2,000 Sona bathers where have followed these for 20 years they see
1:33:53 followed these for 20 years they see
1:33:53 followed these for 20 years they see that a 30 minutes possession is like
1:33:56 that a 30 minutes possession is like
1:33:56 that a 30 minutes possession is like enough and if if you go above that you
1:33:58 enough and if if you go above that you
1:33:58 enough and if if you go above that you don't get more health benefits out of it
1:34:00 don't get more health benefits out of it
1:34:00 don't get more health benefits out of it so I think there's a window where we can
1:34:02 so I think there's a window where we can
1:34:02 so I think there's a window where we can say the healthy stress corresponds to
1:34:05 say the healthy stress corresponds to
1:34:05 say the healthy stress corresponds to like 10 minutes and I think it's like
1:34:07 like 10 minutes and I think it's like
1:34:07 like 10 minutes and I think it's like per session per session and it's not
1:34:09 per session per session and it's not
1:34:09 per session per session and it's not it's not much actually so you don't need
1:34:12 it's not much actually so you don't need
1:34:12 it's not much actually so you don't need to it shows that you don't have to
1:34:14 to it shows that you don't have to
1:34:14 to it shows that you don't have to expose yourself very much to the Heat or
1:34:16 expose yourself very much to the Heat or
1:34:16 expose yourself very much to the Heat or very much actually to the cold to get
1:34:18 very much actually to the cold to get
1:34:18 very much actually to the cold to get this healthy benefits uh from going into
1:34:22 this healthy benefits uh from going into
1:34:22 this healthy benefits uh from going into cold going to heat and have healthy to
1:34:23 cold going to heat and have healthy to
1:34:23 cold going to heat and have healthy to benefits on your cardiovascular system
1:34:25 benefits on your cardiovascular system
1:34:25 benefits on your cardiovascular system so I think this is a very important also
1:34:27 so I think this is a very important also
1:34:27 so I think this is a very important also message to to to get out that you don't
1:34:30 message to to to get out that you don't
1:34:30 message to to to get out that you don't have to go extreme you don't have to
1:34:33 have to go extreme you don't have to
1:34:33 have to go extreme you don't have to swim for half an hour in the cold water
1:34:35 swim for half an hour in the cold water
1:34:35 swim for half an hour in the cold water you can go in the water for one to two
1:34:38 you can go in the water for one to two
1:34:38 you can go in the water for one to two minutes um per session but go up to 11
1:34:42 minutes um per session but go up to 11
1:34:42 minutes um per session but go up to 11 minutes per week in total and for the
1:34:45 minutes per week in total and for the
1:34:45 minutes per week in total and for the SAA my study showed 57 minutes in total
1:34:48 SAA my study showed 57 minutes in total
1:34:49 SAA my study showed 57 minutes in total per week and if we also then divide it
1:34:51 per week and if we also then divide it
1:34:51 per week and if we also then divide it out on these two to three days and two
1:34:53 out on these two to three days and two
1:34:53 out on these two to three days and two session each day correspond to 10 to 15
1:34:56 session each day correspond to 10 to 15
1:34:56 session each day correspond to 10 to 15 minutes so it's a low Tres hole but I
1:34:59 minutes so it's a low Tres hole but I
1:34:59 minutes so it's a low Tres hole but I think it's it's good to have that to
1:35:02 think it's it's good to have that to
1:35:02 think it's it's good to have that to maybe we can aim for that if if people
1:35:04 maybe we can aim for that if if people
1:35:04 maybe we can aim for that if if people need to have something to to aim for and
1:35:06 need to have something to to aim for and
1:35:06 need to have something to to aim for and I think and I think it's really good to
1:35:08 I think and I think it's really good to
1:35:08 I think and I think it's really good to have that because then you you don't
1:35:11 have that because then you you don't
1:35:11 have that because then you you don't have then you don't overdo it and if you
1:35:13 have then you don't overdo it and if you
1:35:13 have then you don't overdo it and if you overdo it you exhaust the cells and that
1:35:15 overdo it you exhaust the cells and that
1:35:15 overdo it you exhaust the cells and that will increase your risk of
1:35:17 will increase your risk of
1:35:17 will increase your risk of cardiovascular disease also so well I
1:35:20 cardiovascular disease also so well I
1:35:20 cardiovascular disease also so well I get a lot of questions about this and I
1:35:21 get a lot of questions about this and I
1:35:21 get a lot of questions about this and I did solicit for questions for this
1:35:23 did solicit for questions for this
1:35:23 did solicit for questions for this podcast on on Twitter and one of the
1:35:24 podcast on on Twitter and one of the
1:35:25 podcast on on Twitter and one of the questions that I got was as one becomes
1:35:27 questions that I got was as one becomes
1:35:27 questions that I got was as one becomes more cold adapted do the benefits start
1:35:29 more cold adapted do the benefits start
1:35:29 more cold adapted do the benefits start to wear off or can people do too much
1:35:31 to wear off or can people do too much
1:35:31 to wear off or can people do too much cold exposure of course the answer to
1:35:33 cold exposure of course the answer to
1:35:33 cold exposure of course the answer to that is yes you can become hypothermic
1:35:34 that is yes you can become hypothermic
1:35:35 that is yes you can become hypothermic but I'm sensing a different answer now
1:35:38 but I'm sensing a different answer now
1:35:38 but I'm sensing a different answer now which is if I understand correctly um
1:35:40 which is if I understand correctly um
1:35:40 which is if I understand correctly um the threshold is 11 minutes total per
1:35:42 the threshold is 11 minutes total per
1:35:42 the threshold is 11 minutes total per week of deliberate cold exposure divided
1:35:44 week of deliberate cold exposure divided
1:35:45 week of deliberate cold exposure divided into two or three sessions of maybe one
1:35:47 into two or three sessions of maybe one
1:35:47 into two or three sessions of maybe one to 3 minutes depending on how long
1:35:49 to 3 minutes depending on how long
1:35:49 to 3 minutes depending on how long somebody stays in and then 57 minutes I
1:35:53 somebody stays in and then 57 minutes I
1:35:53 somebody stays in and then 57 minutes I want to be careful not to round up um to
1:35:55 want to be careful not to round up um to
1:35:55 want to be careful not to round up um to an hour but divide it into maybe three
1:35:58 an hour but divide it into maybe three
1:35:58 an hour but divide it into maybe three 20 minute sessions or so you know um so
1:36:01 20 minute sessions or so you know um so
1:36:01 20 minute sessions or so you know um so one doesn't have to be perfect as long
1:36:03 one doesn't have to be perfect as long
1:36:03 one doesn't have to be perfect as long as you get beyond that threshold exactly
1:36:05 as you get beyond that threshold exactly
1:36:05 as you get beyond that threshold exactly but I I wonder something which
1:36:08 but I I wonder something which
1:36:08 but I I wonder something which is is it the case that if somebody said
1:36:11 is is it the case that if somebody said
1:36:11 is is it the case that if somebody said oh you know I'm just going to do one 11
1:36:13 oh you know I'm just going to do one 11
1:36:13 oh you know I'm just going to do one 11 minute session per week that might
1:36:15 minute session per week that might
1:36:15 minute session per week that might actually not be as beneficial as
1:36:18 actually not be as beneficial as
1:36:18 actually not be as beneficial as dividing it up because what you told us
1:36:21 dividing it up because what you told us
1:36:21 dividing it up because what you told us earlier is that the hormetic response
1:36:24 earlier is that the hormetic response
1:36:24 earlier is that the hormetic response depends on having that cold shock you
1:36:26 depends on having that cold shock you
1:36:26 depends on having that cold shock you actually don't want to become too cold
1:36:27 actually don't want to become too cold
1:36:27 actually don't want to become too cold adapted I mean once the blood pressure
1:36:29 adapted I mean once the blood pressure
1:36:29 adapted I mean once the blood pressure response drops down so in minute four
1:36:32 response drops down so in minute four
1:36:32 response drops down so in minute four five and six yeah you're getting very
1:36:34 five and six yeah you're getting very
1:36:34 five and six yeah you're getting very cold and you're shivering but you're one
1:36:37 cold and you're shivering but you're one
1:36:37 cold and you're shivering but you're one is not getting the autonomic stimulus
1:36:39 is not getting the autonomic stimulus
1:36:39 is not getting the autonomic stimulus that they want I guess I could liken
1:36:41 that they want I guess I could liken
1:36:41 that they want I guess I could liken this to um if exercise worked in a way
1:36:43 this to um if exercise worked in a way
1:36:43 this to um if exercise worked in a way where it was only the first few minutes
1:36:45 where it was only the first few minutes
1:36:45 where it was only the first few minutes of exercise that really triggered the
1:36:47 of exercise that really triggered the
1:36:47 of exercise that really triggered the adaptation of course this is not how it
1:36:48 adaptation of course this is not how it
1:36:48 adaptation of course this is not how it works but um in fact probably quite the
1:36:50 works but um in fact probably quite the
1:36:50 works but um in fact probably quite the opposite um but if that were the case
1:36:53 opposite um but if that were the case
1:36:53 opposite um but if that were the case then it's not simply the total amount of
1:36:55 then it's not simply the total amount of
1:36:55 then it's not simply the total amount of exercise but dividing up the the the
1:36:58 exercise but dividing up the the the
1:36:58 exercise but dividing up the the the sessions into little bouts where every
1:37:01 sessions into little bouts where every
1:37:01 sessions into little bouts where every single time it acts as a as a stimulus
1:37:04 single time it acts as a as a stimulus
1:37:04 single time it acts as a as a stimulus that seems to be the key here um this is
1:37:07 that seems to be the key here um this is
1:37:07 that seems to be the key here um this is very important um because having watch
1:37:09 very important um because having watch
1:37:09 very important um because having watch the landscape of this on social media
1:37:11 the landscape of this on social media
1:37:11 the landscape of this on social media but also in books and generally um I
1:37:14 but also in books and generally um I
1:37:14 but also in books and generally um I think you're the first person to really
1:37:16 think you're the first person to really
1:37:16 think you're the first person to really touch on this that the goal is not to
1:37:18 touch on this that the goal is not to
1:37:19 touch on this that the goal is not to get so cold adapted that you can sit in
1:37:20 get so cold adapted that you can sit in
1:37:20 get so cold adapted that you can sit in for the full 11 minutes in one session
1:37:23 for the full 11 minutes in one session
1:37:23 for the full 11 minutes in one session where the goal goal isn't to be able to
1:37:24 where the goal goal isn't to be able to
1:37:24 where the goal goal isn't to be able to do an hour of very hot sauna if you want
1:37:27 do an hour of very hot sauna if you want
1:37:27 do an hour of very hot sauna if you want to I suppose people could do it for
1:37:28 to I suppose people could do it for
1:37:28 to I suppose people could do it for other reasons but if the goal is to
1:37:30 other reasons but if the goal is to
1:37:30 other reasons but if the goal is to improve these Health metrics yeah then
1:37:32 improve these Health metrics yeah then
1:37:32 improve these Health metrics yeah then the idea is to keep the stimulus a
1:37:35 the idea is to keep the stimulus a
1:37:35 the idea is to keep the stimulus a stimulus short exactly yeah great well
1:37:39 stimulus short exactly yeah great well
1:37:39 stimulus short exactly yeah great well this also I think there's practical
1:37:41 this also I think there's practical
1:37:41 this also I think there's practical feasibility as you pointed out because
1:37:43 feasibility as you pointed out because
1:37:43 feasibility as you pointed out because getting into a cold shower or cold
1:37:45 getting into a cold shower or cold
1:37:45 getting into a cold shower or cold immersion or natural body water for a
1:37:47 immersion or natural body water for a
1:37:47 immersion or natural body water for a couple of minutes is far less uh um you
1:37:51 couple of minutes is far less uh um you
1:37:51 couple of minutes is far less uh um you know challenging to most people than
1:37:53 know challenging to most people than
1:37:53 know challenging to most people than finding a full morning to go you know
1:37:55 finding a full morning to go you know
1:37:55 finding a full morning to go you know spend there um but I've never really
1:37:57 spend there um but I've never really
1:37:58 spend there um but I've never really heard it
1:37:59 heard it
1:37:59 heard it articulated that the longer sessions
1:38:02 articulated that the longer sessions
1:38:02 articulated that the longer sessions might not be beneficial and might
1:38:04 might not be beneficial and might
1:38:04 might not be beneficial and might actually be
1:38:05 actually be
1:38:05 actually be detrimental
1:38:07 detrimental
1:38:07 detrimental um that's very important uh were there
1:38:10 um that's very important uh were there
1:38:10 um that's very important uh were there any other observations that you made um
1:38:13 any other observations that you made um
1:38:13 any other observations that you made um that did not make it into the paper or
1:38:15 that did not make it into the paper or
1:38:15 that did not make it into the paper or that were kind of in the the margin
1:38:17 that were kind of in the the margin
1:38:17 that were kind of in the the margin notes in terms of psychological benefits
1:38:21 notes in terms of psychological benefits
1:38:21 notes in terms of psychological benefits um or anything of that sort there was
1:38:23 um or anything of that sort there was
1:38:23 um or anything of that sort there was this recent study on soldiers that
1:38:25 this recent study on soldiers that
1:38:25 this recent study on soldiers that talked about weight loss it's sort of a
1:38:26 talked about weight loss it's sort of a
1:38:27 talked about weight loss it's sort of a controversial study um for a lot of
1:38:28 controversial study um for a lot of
1:38:28 controversial study um for a lot of reasons um but one of the things they
1:38:30 reasons um but one of the things they
1:38:30 reasons um but one of the things they remarked uh in the paper was that there
1:38:32 remarked uh in the paper was that there
1:38:32 remarked uh in the paper was that there were a lot of psychological changes
1:38:34 were a lot of psychological changes
1:38:34 were a lot of psychological changes improved buffering against anxiety um
1:38:36 improved buffering against anxiety um
1:38:36 improved buffering against anxiety um they even the men and women in that
1:38:38 they even the men and women in that
1:38:38 they even the men and women in that study um reported one of the significant
1:38:41 study um reported one of the significant
1:38:41 study um reported one of the significant effects was um significantly improved
1:38:43 effects was um significantly improved
1:38:43 effects was um significantly improved sexual satisfaction of they didn't tell
1:38:44 sexual satisfaction of they didn't tell
1:38:45 sexual satisfaction of they didn't tell us what that meant for these subjects
1:38:46 us what that meant for these subjects
1:38:46 us what that meant for these subjects but so we won't go there but but a
1:38:48 but so we won't go there but but a
1:38:48 but so we won't go there but but a number of subjective improvements was
1:38:51 number of subjective improvements was
1:38:51 number of subjective improvements was there anything that you observed or took
1:38:52 there anything that you observed or took
1:38:52 there anything that you observed or took note of in in your study that perhaps
1:38:54 note of in in your study that perhaps
1:38:54 note of in in your study that perhaps didn't make the main abstract but that
1:38:56 didn't make the main abstract but that
1:38:56 didn't make the main abstract but that we should be aware of uh yeah there was
1:38:59 we should be aware of uh yeah there was
1:38:59 we should be aware of uh yeah there was some um and I'm I'm today I regret that
1:39:04 some um and I'm I'm today I regret that
1:39:04 some um and I'm I'm today I regret that I didn't measure on sleep for example I
1:39:08 I didn't measure on sleep for example I
1:39:08 I didn't measure on sleep for example I I frankly didn't really think about that
1:39:11 I frankly didn't really think about that
1:39:11 I frankly didn't really think about that when I I when I designed the study um so
1:39:15 when I I when I designed the study um so
1:39:15 when I I when I designed the study um so we were very um much occupied with the
1:39:19 we were very um much occupied with the
1:39:19 we were very um much occupied with the metabolism and kind of had the thought
1:39:22 metabolism and kind of had the thought
1:39:22 metabolism and kind of had the thought maybe this could impact Sleep Quality um
1:39:27 maybe this could impact Sleep Quality um
1:39:27 maybe this could impact Sleep Quality um and I wish I just I had the thought that
1:39:29 and I wish I just I had the thought that
1:39:29 and I wish I just I had the thought that why don't you just ask them in a
1:39:30 why don't you just ask them in a
1:39:31 why don't you just ask them in a questionnaire but I asked them every
1:39:33 questionnaire but I asked them every
1:39:33 questionnaire but I asked them every morning or every morning was not many
1:39:34 morning or every morning was not many
1:39:34 morning or every morning was not many mornings just two mornings actually we
1:39:37 mornings just two mornings actually we
1:39:37 mornings just two mornings actually we measured on um but the winter swimmers
1:39:40 measured on um but the winter swimmers
1:39:40 measured on um but the winter swimmers um told us before I rode them that they
1:39:44 um told us before I rode them that they
1:39:44 um told us before I rode them that they had a really good sleep quality the
1:39:46 had a really good sleep quality the
1:39:46 had a really good sleep quality the control group also had that but they
1:39:49 control group also had that but they
1:39:49 control group also had that but they told me on the day where we measured the
1:39:51 told me on the day where we measured the
1:39:51 told me on the day where we measured the brown fat on on a day and a night night
1:39:54 brown fat on on a day and a night night
1:39:54 brown fat on on a day and a night night so for actually two days and two nights
1:39:57 so for actually two days and two nights
1:39:57 so for actually two days and two nights um they told me that they didn't they
1:40:00 um they told me that they didn't they
1:40:00 um they told me that they didn't they had a good night's sleep but they also
1:40:01 had a good night's sleep but they also
1:40:01 had a good night's sleep but they also woke up so it's just telling me that
1:40:04 woke up so it's just telling me that
1:40:04 woke up so it's just telling me that they also had like a quick wake up and
1:40:06 they also had like a quick wake up and
1:40:06 they also had like a quick wake up and then they fell asleep again um and the
1:40:09 then they fell asleep again um and the
1:40:09 then they fell asleep again um and the winter swimmers uh so that they have a
1:40:12 winter swimmers uh so that they have a
1:40:12 winter swimmers uh so that they have a really good sleep so it's like and in
1:40:14 really good sleep so it's like and in
1:40:14 really good sleep so it's like and in general they also say we we sleep very
1:40:16 general they also say we we sleep very
1:40:16 general they also say we we sleep very well I sleep very well so it's
1:40:19 well I sleep very well so it's
1:40:19 well I sleep very well so it's anecdotally in general it corresponds to
1:40:22 anecdotally in general it corresponds to
1:40:22 anecdotally in general it corresponds to what I heard in my study but nothing
1:40:25 what I heard in my study but nothing
1:40:25 what I heard in my study but nothing that I measured on um which would could
1:40:27 that I measured on um which would could
1:40:27 that I measured on um which would could be fun to do in the future but we didn't
1:40:29 be fun to do in the future but we didn't
1:40:29 be fun to do in the future but we didn't measure on Sleep Quality that would be
1:40:33 measure on Sleep Quality that would be
1:40:33 measure on Sleep Quality that would be have been a really good idea to do they
1:40:35 have been a really good idea to do they
1:40:35 have been a really good idea to do they also told me that they were very
1:40:36 also told me that they were very
1:40:36 also told me that they were very comfortable when they were cold they
1:40:39 comfortable when they were cold they
1:40:39 comfortable when they were cold they they don't mind winter swimmers they
1:40:40 they don't mind winter swimmers they
1:40:40 they don't mind winter swimmers they don't mind um going out for example um
1:40:43 don't mind um going out for example um
1:40:43 don't mind um going out for example um in in the cat with a t-shirt there were
1:40:46 in in the cat with a t-shirt there were
1:40:46 in in the cat with a t-shirt there were also less uh scared of showing their
1:40:48 also less uh scared of showing their
1:40:48 also less uh scared of showing their skin that was also one observation
1:40:51 skin that was also one observation
1:40:51 skin that was also one observation interesting yeah so kind of a redu
1:40:53 interesting yeah so kind of a redu
1:40:53 interesting yeah so kind of a redu social anxiety yeah they were just so
1:40:56 social anxiety yeah they were just so
1:40:56 social anxiety yeah they were just so comfortable in the lab you as you just
1:40:59 comfortable in the lab you as you just
1:40:59 comfortable in the lab you as you just mentioned before coats on and everybody
1:41:01 mentioned before coats on and everybody
1:41:01 mentioned before coats on and everybody Jing around it was very busy and um all
1:41:04 Jing around it was very busy and um all
1:41:04 Jing around it was very busy and um all the other um scientists out in the
1:41:06 the other um scientists out in the
1:41:06 the other um scientists out in the hallway and also my supervisor had her
1:41:08 hallway and also my supervisor had her
1:41:08 hallway and also my supervisor had her office down down the hallway and and one
1:41:11 office down down the hallway and and one
1:41:11 office down down the hallway and and one of the winter swimmers one day just got
1:41:13 of the winter swimmers one day just got
1:41:13 of the winter swimmers one day just got out of bed after have been in the study
1:41:16 out of bed after have been in the study
1:41:16 out of bed after have been in the study for eight hours we it was a long day
1:41:18 for eight hours we it was a long day
1:41:18 for eight hours we it was a long day right he jumped out of the bed and had
1:41:21 right he jumped out of the bed and had
1:41:21 right he jumped out of the bed and had his clothes in the bathroom and he went
1:41:25 his clothes in the bathroom and he went
1:41:25 his clothes in the bathroom and he went out completely naked he didn't care he
1:41:27 out completely naked he didn't care he
1:41:27 out completely naked he didn't care he just went out it was like oh wa so
1:41:30 just went out it was like oh wa so
1:41:30 just went out it was like oh wa so that's a side effect perhaps of getting
1:41:31 that's a side effect perhaps of getting
1:41:32 that's a side effect perhaps of getting too comfortable with the cold um we're
1:41:34 too comfortable with the cold um we're
1:41:35 too comfortable with the cold um we're not recommending that although in your
1:41:37 not recommending that although in your
1:41:37 not recommending that although in your book you um did a uh you dedicated some
1:41:41 book you um did a uh you dedicated some
1:41:41 book you um did a uh you dedicated some let me start that again although in your
1:41:43 let me start that again although in your
1:41:43 let me start that again although in your book you dedicated some uh pages to um
1:41:46 book you dedicated some uh pages to um
1:41:46 book you dedicated some uh pages to um naked winter swimming or I should say
1:41:49 naked winter swimming or I should say
1:41:49 naked winter swimming or I should say naked cold water exposure as opposed to
1:41:52 naked cold water exposure as opposed to
1:41:52 naked cold water exposure as opposed to um
1:41:54 um
1:41:54 um uh with bathing suit yeah are there any
1:41:56 uh with bathing suit yeah are there any
1:41:56 uh with bathing suit yeah are there any data on this I'm sorry chuckling but um
1:41:59 data on this I'm sorry chuckling but um
1:41:59 data on this I'm sorry chuckling but um I think in most places in the United
1:42:00 I think in most places in the United
1:42:00 I think in most places in the United States it's uh skinny dipping is not um
1:42:04 States it's uh skinny dipping is not um
1:42:04 States it's uh skinny dipping is not um is not legal uh most public beaches
1:42:06 is not legal uh most public beaches
1:42:06 is not legal uh most public beaches there are a few in fact where I I my
1:42:08 there are a few in fact where I I my
1:42:08 there are a few in fact where I I my laboratory before moving to Stanford was
1:42:10 laboratory before moving to Stanford was
1:42:10 laboratory before moving to Stanford was in San Diego and I at the sulk Institute
1:42:12 in San Diego and I at the sulk Institute
1:42:12 in San Diego and I at the sulk Institute for biological studies beautiful
1:42:14 for biological studies beautiful
1:42:14 for biological studies beautiful building incredible Sciences done there
1:42:16 building incredible Sciences done there
1:42:16 building incredible Sciences done there the beach right below that it's called
1:42:18 the beach right below that it's called
1:42:18 the beach right below that it's called Black's Beach okay and um and it's a
1:42:21 Black's Beach okay and um and it's a
1:42:21 Black's Beach okay and um and it's a known nude beach
1:42:23 known nude beach
1:42:23 known nude beach um and so whenever tourists were heading
1:42:25 um and so whenever tourists were heading
1:42:25 um and so whenever tourists were heading down the stairway there um I would you
1:42:28 down the stairway there um I would you
1:42:28 down the stairway there um I would you know sort of let them know especially if
1:42:29 know sort of let them know especially if
1:42:29 know sort of let them know especially if they had kids I'd let them know you know
1:42:31 they had kids I'd let them know you know
1:42:31 they had kids I'd let them know you know and it's a nude beach of a particular um
1:42:34 and it's a nude beach of a particular um
1:42:34 and it's a nude beach of a particular um uh of a particular genre so I I'd give
1:42:36 uh of a particular genre so I I'd give
1:42:36 uh of a particular genre so I I'd give them a little warning about what what
1:42:37 them a little warning about what what
1:42:38 them a little warning about what what they could expect down below it's a um
1:42:40 they could expect down below it's a um
1:42:40 they could expect down below it's a um in any event th those beaches are quite
1:42:42 in any event th those beaches are quite
1:42:42 in any event th those beaches are quite rare um in the United States maybe
1:42:44 rare um in the United States maybe
1:42:44 rare um in the United States maybe compared to Europe I don't know um but
1:42:46 compared to Europe I don't know um but
1:42:46 compared to Europe I don't know um but yeah maybe yeah so is there anything
1:42:48 yeah maybe yeah so is there anything
1:42:48 yeah maybe yeah so is there anything special about um clothless versus
1:42:50 special about um clothless versus
1:42:51 special about um clothless versus clothed um exposure yeah I think in that
1:42:54 clothed um exposure yeah I think in that
1:42:54 clothed um exposure yeah I think in that sense uh we are a bit more free with
1:42:57 sense uh we are a bit more free with
1:42:57 sense uh we are a bit more free with this kind of like but but remember we
1:42:58 this kind of like but but remember we
1:42:58 this kind of like but but remember we also had this winter swimming culture
1:43:00 also had this winter swimming culture
1:43:00 also had this winter swimming culture for so for hundreds of years in Denmark
1:43:02 for so for hundreds of years in Denmark
1:43:02 for so for hundreds of years in Denmark and the winter the oldest winter
1:43:04 and the winter the oldest winter
1:43:04 and the winter the oldest winter swimming clubs that we have especially
1:43:06 swimming clubs that we have especially
1:43:06 swimming clubs that we have especially the one we have in Copenhagen where I
1:43:07 the one we have in Copenhagen where I
1:43:08 the one we have in Copenhagen where I did my next study which we haven't
1:43:09 did my next study which we haven't
1:43:09 did my next study which we haven't talked about but and it's also not
1:43:11 talked about but and it's also not
1:43:11 talked about but and it's also not published yet but um in that winter
1:43:14 published yet but um in that winter
1:43:14 published yet but um in that winter swimming club it's the oldest one we
1:43:16 swimming club it's the oldest one we
1:43:16 swimming club it's the oldest one we have and it's huge and they they swim
1:43:19 have and it's huge and they they swim
1:43:19 have and it's huge and they they swim naked at this facility men and women men
1:43:22 naked at this facility men and women men
1:43:22 naked at this facility men and women men anden women and they have Sona where
1:43:24 anden women and they have Sona where
1:43:24 anden women and they have Sona where they can go in together and they also
1:43:26 they can go in together and they also
1:43:26 they can go in together and they also have the separate sonas but it's very
1:43:29 have the separate sonas but it's very
1:43:29 have the separate sonas but it's very much a a Danish thing and and I think
1:43:32 much a a Danish thing and and I think
1:43:32 much a a Danish thing and and I think it's I think it's I think it's good if
1:43:34 it's I think it's I think it's good if
1:43:34 it's I think it's I think it's good if people want that um and I had it in my
1:43:37 people want that um and I had it in my
1:43:37 people want that um and I had it in my book because people want to know if they
1:43:39 book because people want to know if they
1:43:39 book because people want to know if they have to swim with their bathing suit on
1:43:41 have to swim with their bathing suit on
1:43:41 have to swim with their bathing suit on or if they can take it off or what's the
1:43:43 or if they can take it off or what's the
1:43:44 or if they can take it off or what's the what's the difference is there any
1:43:45 what's the difference is there any
1:43:45 what's the difference is there any difference in this and if you ask me
1:43:47 difference in this and if you ask me
1:43:47 difference in this and if you ask me there is no difference if you have your
1:43:49 there is no difference if you have your
1:43:49 there is no difference if you have your little skinny bikini on it's not going
1:43:51 little skinny bikini on it's not going
1:43:51 little skinny bikini on it's not going to do any difference to your cold
1:43:54 to do any difference to your cold
1:43:54 to do any difference to your cold exposure or your adaptation it's not
1:43:56 exposure or your adaptation it's not
1:43:56 exposure or your adaptation it's not going to do any difference for your
1:43:57 going to do any difference for your
1:43:57 going to do any difference for your benefits of course but I think that it
1:44:00 benefits of course but I think that it
1:44:00 benefits of course but I think that it has something else it has something to
1:44:02 has something else it has something to
1:44:02 has something else it has something to do with how you also absorb yourself how
1:44:05 do with how you also absorb yourself how
1:44:05 do with how you also absorb yourself how you absorb your surroundings and it's
1:44:07 you absorb your surroundings and it's
1:44:08 you absorb your surroundings and it's sometime some sense of freedom in skinny
1:44:10 sometime some sense of freedom in skinny
1:44:10 sometime some sense of freedom in skinny dipping so I think people in Denmark who
1:44:12 dipping so I think people in Denmark who
1:44:12 dipping so I think people in Denmark who does this
1:44:14 does this
1:44:14 does this is they do the winter swimming because
1:44:16 is they do the winter swimming because
1:44:16 is they do the winter swimming because they feel free when they do that they
1:44:18 they feel free when they do that they
1:44:18 they feel free when they do that they come home from work they go to this club
1:44:21 come home from work they go to this club
1:44:21 come home from work they go to this club and they skinny dip and they feel like
1:44:23 and they skinny dip and they feel like
1:44:23 and they skinny dip and they feel like in touch with nature and they have maybe
1:44:26 in touch with nature and they have maybe
1:44:26 in touch with nature and they have maybe done this their whole life so this is an
1:44:28 done this their whole life so this is an
1:44:28 done this their whole life so this is an old tradition in Denmark in some of the
1:44:30 old tradition in Denmark in some of the
1:44:30 old tradition in Denmark in some of the clubs um but the newer clubs that are
1:44:33 clubs um but the newer clubs that are
1:44:33 clubs um but the newer clubs that are coming they don't they don't skinny dip
1:44:36 coming they don't they don't skinny dip
1:44:36 coming they don't they don't skinny dip so everyone has bathing suit I never
1:44:38 so everyone has bathing suit I never
1:44:38 so everyone has bathing suit I never Skinny Dip because there are people
1:44:40 Skinny Dip because there are people
1:44:40 Skinny Dip because there are people around people with phones and taking
1:44:42 around people with phones and taking
1:44:42 around people with phones and taking pictures all the time so this different
1:44:44 pictures all the time so this different
1:44:44 pictures all the time so this different different nowadays everything's recorded
1:44:47 different nowadays everything's recorded
1:44:47 different nowadays everything's recorded yeah and also this this old tradition is
1:44:50 yeah and also this this old tradition is
1:44:50 yeah and also this this old tradition is also fading away because of that yeah I
1:44:53 also fading away because of that yeah I
1:44:54 also fading away because of that yeah I um I use sauna and cold at home but when
1:44:56 um I use sauna and cold at home but when
1:44:56 um I use sauna and cold at home but when I travel there there's a a b so Russian
1:44:59 I travel there there's a a b so Russian
1:44:59 I travel there there's a a b so Russian B has hot sauna and cold plunge um
1:45:03 B has hot sauna and cold plunge um
1:45:03 B has hot sauna and cold plunge um there's one in San Francisco called
1:45:04 there's one in San Francisco called
1:45:04 there's one in San Francisco called Archimedes B um and that one is clothing
1:45:07 Archimedes B um and that one is clothing
1:45:07 Archimedes B um and that one is clothing optional so some people are clothed such
1:45:09 optional so some people are clothed such
1:45:09 optional so some people are clothed such as myself and then other people are not
1:45:11 as myself and then other people are not
1:45:11 as myself and then other people are not and it's co-ed most of the time I think
1:45:13 and it's co-ed most of the time I think
1:45:13 and it's co-ed most of the time I think they have male female separated uh
1:45:15 they have male female separated uh
1:45:15 they have male female separated uh evenings or something like that and then
1:45:18 evenings or something like that and then
1:45:18 evenings or something like that and then um the other B is Spa 88 which is in on
1:45:21 um the other B is Spa 88 which is in on
1:45:21 um the other B is Spa 88 which is in on Wall Street in New York is an amazing b
1:45:23 Wall Street in New York is an amazing b
1:45:23 Wall Street in New York is an amazing b as well um and these are starting to
1:45:25 as well um and these are starting to
1:45:25 as well um and these are starting to crop up in different cities or maybe
1:45:26 crop up in different cities or maybe
1:45:26 crop up in different cities or maybe they've been there for a long time and
1:45:28 they've been there for a long time and
1:45:28 they've been there for a long time and as deliberate cold exposure in sauna
1:45:29 as deliberate cold exposure in sauna
1:45:29 as deliberate cold exposure in sauna gets more popular more people are using
1:45:31 gets more popular more people are using
1:45:31 gets more popular more people are using them the the one in New York that I that
1:45:34 them the the one in New York that I that
1:45:34 them the the one in New York that I that spy 88 is always clothed um and it's
1:45:38 spy 88 is always clothed um and it's
1:45:38 spy 88 is always clothed um and it's interesting because you know people here
1:45:40 interesting because you know people here
1:45:40 interesting because you know people here uh naked or skinny dipping and they they
1:45:42 uh naked or skinny dipping and they they
1:45:42 uh naked or skinny dipping and they they might get certain ideas in mind it um
1:45:45 might get certain ideas in mind it um
1:45:45 might get certain ideas in mind it um yeah all these places are very well lit
1:45:47 yeah all these places are very well lit
1:45:47 yeah all these places are very well lit and they all have a tone of kind of um
1:45:49 and they all have a tone of kind of um
1:45:49 and they all have a tone of kind of um of Health that it's about the kind of
1:45:51 of Health that it's about the kind of
1:45:51 of Health that it's about the kind of health and and and Wellness um I guess
1:45:53 health and and and Wellness um I guess
1:45:53 health and and and Wellness um I guess the point being that um there's no
1:45:55 the point being that um there's no
1:45:55 the point being that um there's no requirement uh to do one thing or the
1:45:58 requirement uh to do one thing or the
1:45:58 requirement uh to do one thing or the other um although in the studies that uh
1:46:00 other um although in the studies that uh
1:46:00 other um although in the studies that uh you did obviously um people were clothed
1:46:02 you did obviously um people were clothed
1:46:02 you did obviously um people were clothed but I I did um I did pay attention to
1:46:05 but I I did um I did pay attention to
1:46:05 but I I did um I did pay attention to those pages in your book I thought it
1:46:06 those pages in your book I thought it
1:46:06 those pages in your book I thought it was interesting that you put some um
1:46:07 was interesting that you put some um
1:46:08 was interesting that you put some um some dedicated uh passages in your book
1:46:10 some dedicated uh passages in your book
1:46:10 some dedicated uh passages in your book related to this and I think my publisher
1:46:12 related to this and I think my publisher
1:46:12 related to this and I think my publisher wanted that yourish that it was not me
1:46:14 wanted that yourish that it was not me
1:46:14 wanted that yourish that it was not me it was like my publisher really wanted
1:46:16 it was like my publisher really wanted
1:46:16 it was like my publisher really wanted to have it little discussion about that
1:46:18 to have it little discussion about that
1:46:18 to have it little discussion about that so I was like okay well I think it you
1:46:20 so I was like okay well I think it you
1:46:20 so I was like okay well I think it you know it points to a larger theme which
1:46:21 know it points to a larger theme which
1:46:21 know it points to a larger theme which is I think for a lot of people people
1:46:23 is I think for a lot of people people
1:46:23 is I think for a lot of people people who already do these practices um
1:46:25 who already do these practices um
1:46:25 who already do these practices um there's no shock there um for people
1:46:29 there's no shock there um for people
1:46:29 there's no shock there um for people that do not do deliberate cold exposure
1:46:31 that do not do deliberate cold exposure
1:46:31 that do not do deliberate cold exposure or sauna I think that um you know there
1:46:34 or sauna I think that um you know there
1:46:34 or sauna I think that um you know there is this idea perhaps that oh you know
1:46:36 is this idea perhaps that oh you know
1:46:36 is this idea perhaps that oh you know these are um Traditions that are are
1:46:38 these are um Traditions that are are
1:46:38 these are um Traditions that are are kind of Fringe or that they're kind and
1:46:40 kind of Fringe or that they're kind and
1:46:40 kind of Fringe or that they're kind and I just I want to um cue that point
1:46:43 I just I want to um cue that point
1:46:43 I just I want to um cue that point because there's so many things that are
1:46:45 because there's so many things that are
1:46:45 because there's so many things that are happening right now in biomedical
1:46:46 happening right now in biomedical
1:46:47 happening right now in biomedical research and Medicine you know serious
1:46:49 research and Medicine you know serious
1:46:49 research and Medicine you know serious quality peer-reviewed studies published
1:46:51 quality peer-reviewed studies published
1:46:51 quality peer-reviewed studies published in excellent journals like your paper on
1:46:54 in excellent journals like your paper on
1:46:54 in excellent journals like your paper on things like deliberate cold exposure
1:46:56 things like deliberate cold exposure
1:46:56 things like deliberate cold exposure sauna um the use of particular
1:47:00 sauna um the use of particular
1:47:00 sauna um the use of particular supplements natural natural herbs and
1:47:02 supplements natural natural herbs and
1:47:02 supplements natural natural herbs and supplements I mean there's an entire
1:47:03 supplements I mean there's an entire
1:47:03 supplements I mean there's an entire branch of the National Institutes of
1:47:05 branch of the National Institutes of
1:47:05 branch of the National Institutes of Health in the United States dedicated
1:47:07 Health in the United States dedicated
1:47:07 Health in the United States dedicated just to the study of supplements and
1:47:09 just to the study of supplements and
1:47:09 just to the study of supplements and behavioral interventions for health like
1:47:11 behavioral interventions for health like
1:47:11 behavioral interventions for health like meditation and breath work really
1:47:13 meditation and breath work really
1:47:13 meditation and breath work really incredible it's really incredible and
1:47:14 incredible it's really incredible and
1:47:14 incredible it's really incredible and psychedelics of course being something
1:47:16 psychedelics of course being something
1:47:16 psychedelics of course being something that for a long time was part of a
1:47:17 that for a long time was part of a
1:47:17 that for a long time was part of a certain community and feel and now is
1:47:20 certain community and feel and now is
1:47:20 certain community and feel and now is being um frankly adopted by stream Med
1:47:23 being um frankly adopted by stream Med
1:47:23 being um frankly adopted by stream Med medicine even Pharma so it the the times
1:47:26 medicine even Pharma so it the the times
1:47:26 medicine even Pharma so it the the times are changing um and so uh yes I think
1:47:30 are changing um and so uh yes I think
1:47:30 are changing um and so uh yes I think it's important to know that um it's
1:47:31 it's important to know that um it's
1:47:31 it's important to know that um it's perfectly acceptable and encouraged to
1:47:33 perfectly acceptable and encouraged to
1:47:34 perfectly acceptable and encouraged to wear clothing so absolutely absolutely
1:47:36 wear clothing so absolutely absolutely
1:47:36 wear clothing so absolutely absolutely yeah yeah yeah and and one other thing
1:47:38 yeah yeah yeah and and one other thing
1:47:38 yeah yeah yeah and and one other thing that uh I wanted to to mention going
1:47:41 that uh I wanted to to mention going
1:47:41 that uh I wanted to to mention going back to your questions around with there
1:47:43 back to your questions around with there
1:47:43 back to your questions around with there were any observations in the studies
1:47:45 were any observations in the studies
1:47:45 were any observations in the studies which we really maybe haven't discussed
1:47:48 which we really maybe haven't discussed
1:47:48 which we really maybe haven't discussed yet and maybe it's in in the back of the
1:47:50 yet and maybe it's in in the back of the
1:47:50 yet and maybe it's in in the back of the the paper and not mentioned that much
1:47:52 the paper and not mentioned that much
1:47:52 the paper and not mentioned that much was one of the winter swimmers didn't
1:47:54 was one of the winter swimmers didn't
1:47:54 was one of the winter swimmers didn't have any brown fat when we measured him
1:47:57 have any brown fat when we measured him
1:47:57 have any brown fat when we measured him zero zero and uh in we do see this um in
1:48:02 zero zero and uh in we do see this um in
1:48:02 zero zero and uh in we do see this um in in in previous studies as well that some
1:48:05 in in previous studies as well that some
1:48:05 in in previous studies as well that some humans don't have any brown fat was he
1:48:07 humans don't have any brown fat was he
1:48:07 humans don't have any brown fat was he did he carry a lot of white fat atopus
1:48:09 did he carry a lot of white fat atopus
1:48:09 did he carry a lot of white fat atopus tissue was he was he obese no he wasn't
1:48:12 tissue was he was he obese no he wasn't
1:48:12 tissue was he was he obese no he wasn't no he was not obese because that he
1:48:14 no he was not obese because that he
1:48:14 no he was not obese because that he would not have been in the study then oh
1:48:16 would not have been in the study then oh
1:48:16 would not have been in the study then oh right yes you mentioned this earlier
1:48:17 right yes you mentioned this earlier
1:48:17 right yes you mentioned this earlier forgive me no no fine but he was um but
1:48:21 forgive me no no fine but he was um but
1:48:21 forgive me no no fine but he was um but what I did observe before knew that he
1:48:24 what I did observe before knew that he
1:48:24 what I did observe before knew that he didn't have any Browner was that during
1:48:26 didn't have any Browner was that during
1:48:26 didn't have any Browner was that during the cooling experiment where I cooled
1:48:28 the cooling experiment where I cooled
1:48:28 the cooling experiment where I cooled them for uh 2 hours before they go into
1:48:31 them for uh 2 hours before they go into
1:48:31 them for uh 2 hours before they go into the Pet City scanner uh he was not able
1:48:36 the Pet City scanner uh he was not able
1:48:36 the Pet City scanner uh he was not able to control his shivering like the winter
1:48:40 to control his shivering like the winter
1:48:40 to control his shivering like the winter swimmers uh could so he got he got very
1:48:44 swimmers uh could so he got he got very
1:48:44 swimmers uh could so he got he got very uh cold very easily uh compared to the
1:48:48 uh cold very easily uh compared to the
1:48:48 uh cold very easily uh compared to the others so and without I didn't know what
1:48:51 others so and without I didn't know what
1:48:51 others so and without I didn't know what was different about him but we could all
1:48:53 was different about him but we could all
1:48:53 was different about him but we could all all our me and the three others were
1:48:55 all our me and the three others were
1:48:56 all our me and the three others were working on the experiment we were like
1:48:58 working on the experiment we were like
1:48:58 working on the experiment we were like okay what's going on because we turned
1:48:59 okay what's going on because we turned
1:48:59 okay what's going on because we turned down the the temperature but he started
1:49:02 down the the temperature but he started
1:49:02 down the the temperature but he started like shivering and then we had to turn
1:49:04 like shivering and then we had to turn
1:49:04 like shivering and then we had to turn it up again and it was just all over the
1:49:07 it up again and it was just all over the
1:49:07 it up again and it was just all over the place the temperature it's not it wasn't
1:49:09 place the temperature it's not it wasn't
1:49:09 place the temperature it's not it wasn't that controlled like the others was
1:49:10 that controlled like the others was
1:49:11 that controlled like the others was pretty similar protocol I could just do
1:49:13 pretty similar protocol I could just do
1:49:13 pretty similar protocol I could just do pretty much the same because they were
1:49:14 pretty much the same because they were
1:49:14 pretty much the same because they were same size and also same gender so it it
1:49:18 same size and also same gender so it it
1:49:18 same size and also same gender so it it it was easier uh to like foresee what
1:49:21 it was easier uh to like foresee what
1:49:21 it was easier uh to like foresee what was going to happen when will they start
1:49:23 was going to happen when will they start
1:49:23 was going to happen when will they start Shiver I quickly learned that but with
1:49:26 Shiver I quickly learned that but with
1:49:26 Shiver I quickly learned that but with this subject it was just with this uh
1:49:28 this subject it was just with this uh
1:49:28 this subject it was just with this uh volunteer was just very much different
1:49:30 volunteer was just very much different
1:49:30 volunteer was just very much different and then when we scanned him and didn't
1:49:32 and then when we scanned him and didn't
1:49:32 and then when we scanned him and didn't find any brown I I I didn't even think
1:49:35 find any brown I I I didn't even think
1:49:36 find any brown I I I didn't even think about it so when we scanned him we
1:49:37 about it so when we scanned him we
1:49:37 about it so when we scanned him we didn't see anything I told the pet C
1:49:40 didn't see anything I told the pet C
1:49:40 didn't see anything I told the pet C people to like oh you put up the wrong
1:49:42 people to like oh you put up the wrong
1:49:42 people to like oh you put up the wrong uh scanning blame the technology yeah
1:49:45 uh scanning blame the technology yeah
1:49:45 uh scanning blame the technology yeah the technology it was like this scanning
1:49:47 the technology it was like this scanning
1:49:47 the technology it was like this scanning looked like the Thermon neutral day the
1:49:49 looked like the Thermon neutral day the
1:49:49 looked like the Thermon neutral day the therm comfortable day where we also
1:49:50 therm comfortable day where we also
1:49:50 therm comfortable day where we also scanned them to see if they have any
1:49:52 scanned them to see if they have any
1:49:52 scanned them to see if they have any brown fat so you have made a mistake I
1:49:54 brown fat so you have made a mistake I
1:49:54 brown fat so you have made a mistake I was pretty sure and they reanal anal
1:49:57 was pretty sure and they reanal anal
1:49:57 was pretty sure and they reanal anal analyzed this um scanning and they just
1:50:00 analyzed this um scanning and they just
1:50:00 analyzed this um scanning and they just concluded well it the scanning was fine
1:50:03 concluded well it the scanning was fine
1:50:03 concluded well it the scanning was fine the experiment went well it was just
1:50:05 the experiment went well it was just
1:50:05 the experiment went well it was just that he didn't have any brown fat so he
1:50:09 that he didn't have any brown fat so he
1:50:09 that he didn't have any brown fat so he was like what we just in the paper
1:50:10 was like what we just in the paper
1:50:10 was like what we just in the paper called a a brown fat negative so he
1:50:13 called a a brown fat negative so he
1:50:13 called a a brown fat negative so he didn't have any and in in my studies it
1:50:16 didn't have any and in in my studies it
1:50:16 didn't have any and in in my studies it would be called a knockout so it didn't
1:50:18 would be called a knockout so it didn't
1:50:18 would be called a knockout so it didn't have any brown fat so what the
1:50:20 have any brown fat so what the
1:50:20 have any brown fat so what the observation with him and I think that
1:50:23 observation with him and I think that
1:50:23 observation with him and I think that that's interesting is that he both
1:50:25 that's interesting is that he both
1:50:25 that's interesting is that he both shivered very early on and didn't
1:50:27 shivered very early on and didn't
1:50:27 shivered very early on and didn't regulate his temperatures well he also
1:50:29 regulate his temperatures well he also
1:50:29 regulate his temperatures well he also told me that then he was like a five on
1:50:34 told me that then he was like a five on
1:50:34 told me that then he was like a five on the scale of how comfortable he felt
1:50:36 the scale of how comfortable he felt
1:50:36 the scale of how comfortable he felt with the cold um out of so it was from 1
1:50:40 with the cold um out of so it was from 1
1:50:40 with the cold um out of so it was from 1 to 10 and five being thermal comfortable
1:50:44 to 10 and five being thermal comfortable
1:50:44 to 10 and five being thermal comfortable and 10 being uh very uh cold uh and and
1:50:48 and 10 being uh very uh cold uh and and
1:50:48 and 10 being uh very uh cold uh and and one very hot so on this like scale up
1:50:51 one very hot so on this like scale up
1:50:51 one very hot so on this like scale up and up and down and he he was like more
1:50:54 and up and down and he he was like more
1:50:54 and up and down and he he was like more up and down on this scale than any of
1:50:56 up and down on this scale than any of
1:50:56 up and down on this scale than any of the others it was an observation that I
1:50:58 the others it was an observation that I
1:50:58 the others it was an observation that I did um but we did see in his blood
1:51:01 did um but we did see in his blood
1:51:01 did um but we did see in his blood samples also that his blood samples
1:51:03 samples also that his blood samples
1:51:03 samples also that his blood samples looked a bit more like the control group
1:51:05 looked a bit more like the control group
1:51:05 looked a bit more like the control group um also his insulin levels were like the
1:51:09 um also his insulin levels were like the
1:51:10 um also his insulin levels were like the control group so a little bit higher
1:51:11 control group so a little bit higher
1:51:11 control group so a little bit higher than the other winter swimmers and he
1:51:13 than the other winter swimmers and he
1:51:13 than the other winter swimmers and he also had um a a a his glucose clearance
1:51:19 also had um a a a his glucose clearance
1:51:19 also had um a a a his glucose clearance was not as fast as um as the the other
1:51:22 was not as fast as um as the the other
1:51:22 was not as fast as um as the the other winter swimmers so he was like an
1:51:24 winter swimmers so he was like an
1:51:24 winter swimmers so he was like an outlier what we call it and in the
1:51:26 outlier what we call it and in the
1:51:26 outlier what we call it and in the analysis we also had to take him out of
1:51:29 analysis we also had to take him out of
1:51:29 analysis we also had to take him out of the analysis because he was an outlier
1:51:32 the analysis because he was an outlier
1:51:32 the analysis because he was an outlier um so the results showing that the brown
1:51:35 um so the results showing that the brown
1:51:35 um so the results showing that the brown fat uh is more efficiently activated in
1:51:39 fat uh is more efficiently activated in
1:51:39 fat uh is more efficiently activated in the winter swimmers is without him
1:51:41 the winter swimmers is without him
1:51:42 the winter swimmers is without him having him in that group but it didn't
1:51:44 having him in that group but it didn't
1:51:44 having him in that group but it didn't ruin this the study if we I tried to put
1:51:46 ruin this the study if we I tried to put
1:51:46 ruin this the study if we I tried to put him in in as well and didn't it didn't
1:51:48 him in in as well and didn't it didn't
1:51:48 him in in as well and didn't it didn't ruin the results or anything but just to
1:51:50 ruin the results or anything but just to
1:51:50 ruin the results or anything but just to to keep it more clear we put to come out
1:51:53 to keep it more clear we put to come out
1:51:53 to keep it more clear we put to come out of the analysis yeah so he was a mutant
1:51:55 of the analysis yeah so he was a mutant
1:51:55 of the analysis yeah so he was a mutant a knockout yeah and I'm sure they're out
1:51:57 a knockout yeah and I'm sure they're out
1:51:57 a knockout yeah and I'm sure they're out there um very interesting so if you
1:51:59 there um very interesting so if you
1:51:59 there um very interesting so if you shiver early um then perhaps you have
1:52:03 shiver early um then perhaps you have
1:52:03 shiver early um then perhaps you have less brown fat to begin with although
1:52:04 less brown fat to begin with although
1:52:04 less brown fat to begin with although it's hard to conclude from one person
1:52:06 it's hard to conclude from one person
1:52:06 it's hard to conclude from one person that's sort of the the the implication
1:52:08 that's sort of the the the implication
1:52:08 that's sort of the the the implication there or you haven't adapted to the Cod
1:52:10 there or you haven't adapted to the Cod
1:52:10 there or you haven't adapted to the Cod so you should build that up yeah right
1:52:12 so you should build that up yeah right
1:52:12 so you should build that up yeah right so in addition to looking at regulation
1:52:15 so in addition to looking at regulation
1:52:15 so in addition to looking at regulation of blood sugar round
1:52:17 of blood sugar round
1:52:17 of blood sugar round fat metabolism and so on were there any
1:52:21 fat metabolism and so on were there any
1:52:21 fat metabolism and so on were there any markers that you you examined in the
1:52:23 markers that you you examined in the
1:52:23 markers that you you examined in the deliberate cold exposure group as
1:52:25 deliberate cold exposure group as
1:52:25 deliberate cold exposure group as compared to controls um that reveal to
1:52:27 compared to controls um that reveal to
1:52:27 compared to controls um that reveal to you that deliberate cold exposure could
1:52:29 you that deliberate cold exposure could
1:52:29 you that deliberate cold exposure could have additional benefits um say for uh
1:52:33 have additional benefits um say for uh
1:52:33 have additional benefits um say for uh immune system function um or for any
1:52:36 immune system function um or for any
1:52:36 immune system function um or for any function for that matter yeah so for we
1:52:40 function for that matter yeah so for we
1:52:40 function for that matter yeah so for we looked at in inflammation of course we
1:52:42 looked at in inflammation of course we
1:52:42 looked at in inflammation of course we measure the outcome of blood pressure
1:52:43 measure the outcome of blood pressure
1:52:43 measure the outcome of blood pressure and so on but we also measured the IL
1:52:45 and so on but we also measured the IL
1:52:45 and so on but we also measured the IL six in the study just to see also an
1:52:48 six in the study just to see also an
1:52:48 six in the study just to see also an inflammatory anti-inflammatory marker so
1:52:50 inflammatory anti-inflammatory marker so
1:52:51 inflammatory anti-inflammatory marker so I six when up and it also follows with
1:52:54 I six when up and it also follows with
1:52:54 I six when up and it also follows with the i 10 so that is like also very known
1:52:57 the i 10 so that is like also very known
1:52:57 the i 10 so that is like also very known in the literature so we measured that
1:52:59 in the literature so we measured that
1:52:59 in the literature so we measured that and I think it's very important to to
1:53:02 and I think it's very important to to
1:53:02 and I think it's very important to to think about the cold exposure and the
1:53:04 think about the cold exposure and the
1:53:04 think about the cold exposure and the heat exposure as something that then
1:53:06 heat exposure as something that then
1:53:06 heat exposure as something that then lowers the inflammation in the body and
1:53:08 lowers the inflammation in the body and
1:53:08 lowers the inflammation in the body and with if we can do that we will have an
1:53:10 with if we can do that we will have an
1:53:10 with if we can do that we will have an open door for um preventing lifestyle
1:53:13 open door for um preventing lifestyle
1:53:13 open door for um preventing lifestyle diseases right so for um type two
1:53:16 diseases right so for um type two
1:53:16 diseases right so for um type two diabetes but actually also for some
1:53:19 diabetes but actually also for some
1:53:19 diabetes but actually also for some mental diseases as well so as known as
1:53:21 mental diseases as well so as known as
1:53:21 mental diseases as well so as known as depression and anxiety and also
1:53:24 depression and anxiety and also
1:53:24 depression and anxiety and also Alzheimer's disease which are all
1:53:26 Alzheimer's disease which are all
1:53:26 Alzheimer's disease which are all Associated um in research also neuro
1:53:29 Associated um in research also neuro
1:53:29 Associated um in research also neuro research showing that that inflammation
1:53:32 research showing that that inflammation
1:53:32 research showing that that inflammation increases the risk of depression anxiety
1:53:34 increases the risk of depression anxiety
1:53:34 increases the risk of depression anxiety and Alzheimer's with neurological
1:53:36 and Alzheimer's with neurological
1:53:36 and Alzheimer's with neurological diseases so if we can decrease
1:53:38 diseases so if we can decrease
1:53:38 diseases so if we can decrease inflammation in the body we will
1:53:40 inflammation in the body we will
1:53:40 inflammation in the body we will decrease our modern lifestyle diseases
1:53:42 decrease our modern lifestyle diseases
1:53:42 decrease our modern lifestyle diseases but also these
1:53:44 but also these
1:53:44 but also these increasing um mental diseases that we
1:53:47 increasing um mental diseases that we
1:53:47 increasing um mental diseases that we see in these modern lifestyle times um
1:53:50 see in these modern lifestyle times um
1:53:50 see in these modern lifestyle times um so I think that
1:53:53 so I think that
1:53:53 so I think that it's I think it's very interesting that
1:53:54 it's I think it's very interesting that
1:53:54 it's I think it's very interesting that we can go out in nature and we can use
1:53:57 we can go out in nature and we can use
1:53:57 we can go out in nature and we can use these natural stressors and it it I
1:53:59 these natural stressors and it it I
1:53:59 these natural stressors and it it I don't want to have it sound very
1:54:01 don't want to have it sound very
1:54:01 don't want to have it sound very romantic or anything it's just it's just
1:54:04 romantic or anything it's just it's just
1:54:04 romantic or anything it's just it's just exposure to temperature actually just to
1:54:06 exposure to temperature actually just to
1:54:06 exposure to temperature actually just to cold or to heat that is going to twk our
1:54:09 cold or to heat that is going to twk our
1:54:09 cold or to heat that is going to twk our body into a natural state again and and
1:54:12 body into a natural state again and and
1:54:12 body into a natural state again and and reset it where the the homeostasis the
1:54:14 reset it where the the homeostasis the
1:54:14 reset it where the the homeostasis the balance has is lost a bit so the body is
1:54:18 balance has is lost a bit so the body is
1:54:18 balance has is lost a bit so the body is going to repair itself in that way and I
1:54:20 going to repair itself in that way and I
1:54:20 going to repair itself in that way and I think it's beautiful that we can do that
1:54:22 think it's beautiful that we can do that
1:54:22 think it's beautiful that we can do that just by changing the temperature of our
1:54:24 just by changing the temperature of our
1:54:24 just by changing the temperature of our body and although people are very scared
1:54:27 body and although people are very scared
1:54:27 body and although people are very scared of doing this because in our times we
1:54:29 of doing this because in our times we
1:54:29 of doing this because in our times we have been way from cold away from heat
1:54:33 have been way from cold away from heat
1:54:33 have been way from cold away from heat temperature for some for decades now um
1:54:37 temperature for some for decades now um
1:54:37 temperature for some for decades now um since we isolated our houses better and
1:54:40 since we isolated our houses better and
1:54:40 since we isolated our houses better and uh we are more sedentary we also sit
1:54:43 uh we are more sedentary we also sit
1:54:43 uh we are more sedentary we also sit more indoor we don't move as much so
1:54:46 more indoor we don't move as much so
1:54:46 more indoor we don't move as much so this very um modern sedentary lifestyle
1:54:49 this very um modern sedentary lifestyle
1:54:49 this very um modern sedentary lifestyle has made us more temperature comfortable
1:54:52 has made us more temperature comfortable
1:54:52 has made us more temperature comfortable just neutral so no no wonder I mean that
1:54:56 just neutral so no no wonder I mean that
1:54:56 just neutral so no no wonder I mean that obesity is increasing we don't expose
1:54:59 obesity is increasing we don't expose
1:54:59 obesity is increasing we don't expose ourself to the Natural stresses that we
1:55:01 ourself to the Natural stresses that we
1:55:01 ourself to the Natural stresses that we did earlier on um in in our evolvement
1:55:04 did earlier on um in in our evolvement
1:55:04 did earlier on um in in our evolvement but Al up until maybe the 70s the 60s
1:55:08 but Al up until maybe the 70s the 60s
1:55:08 but Al up until maybe the 70s the 60s where we started having more like uh
1:55:11 where we started having more like uh
1:55:11 where we started having more like uh comfortable Lifestyles right and obesity
1:55:13 comfortable Lifestyles right and obesity
1:55:13 comfortable Lifestyles right and obesity increases in the in the 80s we can see
1:55:16 increases in the in the 80s we can see
1:55:16 increases in the in the 80s we can see that from statistics so I think that if
1:55:19 that from statistics so I think that if
1:55:19 that from statistics so I think that if we can take in cold and Heat and you
1:55:22 we can take in cold and Heat and you
1:55:22 we can take in cold and Heat and you mentioned other things also before but
1:55:24 mentioned other things also before but
1:55:24 mentioned other things also before but of course exercise is very important
1:55:26 of course exercise is very important
1:55:26 of course exercise is very important here and also a bit of fasting actually
1:55:28 here and also a bit of fasting actually
1:55:28 here and also a bit of fasting actually because it all increases the homematic
1:55:30 because it all increases the homematic
1:55:30 because it all increases the homematic stress in the body so it's doesn't have
1:55:33 stress in the body so it's doesn't have
1:55:33 stress in the body so it's doesn't have to be uh other than natural stresses to
1:55:36 to be uh other than natural stresses to
1:55:36 to be uh other than natural stresses to the body which then could keep us in
1:55:38 the body which then could keep us in
1:55:38 the body which then could keep us in that Natural Balance again could we talk
1:55:40 that Natural Balance again could we talk
1:55:40 that Natural Balance again could we talk about what I refer to as the soberg
1:55:42 about what I refer to as the soberg
1:55:42 about what I refer to as the soberg principle which is to end on cold and
1:55:45 principle which is to end on cold and
1:55:45 principle which is to end on cold and the reason I called it the sober
1:55:46 the reason I called it the sober
1:55:46 the reason I called it the sober principles because um in reviewing oh by
1:55:49 principles because um in reviewing oh by
1:55:49 principles because um in reviewing oh by the way I wasn't a official reviewer of
1:55:51 the way I wasn't a official reviewer of
1:55:51 the way I wasn't a official reviewer of your paper but I mean in reading and um
1:55:54 your paper but I mean in reading and um
1:55:54 your paper but I mean in reading and um reviewing your paper for its after
1:55:57 reviewing your paper for its after
1:55:57 reviewing your paper for its after published Contents I noticed that you
1:55:59 published Contents I noticed that you
1:55:59 published Contents I noticed that you had people end on cold and this has been
1:56:01 had people end on cold and this has been
1:56:01 had people end on cold and this has been a longstanding debate in the the uh
1:56:04 a longstanding debate in the the uh
1:56:04 a longstanding debate in the the uh deliberate cold exposure Community
1:56:05 deliberate cold exposure Community
1:56:05 deliberate cold exposure Community should you warm up in a with a warm
1:56:07 should you warm up in a with a warm
1:56:07 should you warm up in a with a warm shower afterwards or get back in the
1:56:09 shower afterwards or get back in the
1:56:09 shower afterwards or get back in the sauna what should you end end on cold or
1:56:10 sauna what should you end end on cold or
1:56:10 sauna what should you end end on cold or end on Heat and the sober principle says
1:56:13 end on Heat and the sober principle says
1:56:13 end on Heat and the sober principle says end on cold as I understand it in order
1:56:16 end on cold as I understand it in order
1:56:16 end on cold as I understand it in order to force your body to heat itself back
1:56:19 to force your body to heat itself back
1:56:19 to force your body to heat itself back up and thereby increase metabolism
1:56:23 up and thereby increase metabolism
1:56:23 up and thereby increase metabolism further still is that right yes so when
1:56:26 further still is that right yes so when
1:56:26 further still is that right yes so when you when you end on the cold you you
1:56:29 you when you end on the cold you you
1:56:29 you when you end on the cold you you force your body to heat up by itself and
1:56:32 force your body to heat up by itself and
1:56:32 force your body to heat up by itself and that will require that you activate you
1:56:34 that will require that you activate you
1:56:34 that will require that you activate you keep your brown fat activated and also
1:56:36 keep your brown fat activated and also
1:56:36 keep your brown fat activated and also your muscles which is a good thing it's
1:56:38 your muscles which is a good thing it's
1:56:38 your muscles which is a good thing it's a good collaboration to keep your
1:56:39 a good collaboration to keep your
1:56:39 a good collaboration to keep your thermogenesis up and that's like an an
1:56:42 thermogenesis up and that's like an an
1:56:42 thermogenesis up and that's like an an exercise even when you go home so in
1:56:45 exercise even when you go home so in
1:56:45 exercise even when you go home so in that way you don't have to think about
1:56:47 that way you don't have to think about
1:56:47 that way you don't have to think about your cold exposure dipping in in your
1:56:50 your cold exposure dipping in in your
1:56:50 your cold exposure dipping in in your plung uh or open sea or what it is as
1:56:53 plung uh or open sea or what it is as
1:56:53 plung uh or open sea or what it is as just a an exercise that you do for one
1:56:56 just a an exercise that you do for one
1:56:56 just a an exercise that you do for one to two minutes and then it's over if you
1:56:59 to two minutes and then it's over if you
1:56:59 to two minutes and then it's over if you end on the cold you have an exercise for
1:57:01 end on the cold you have an exercise for
1:57:01 end on the cold you have an exercise for your body going on for hours afterwards
1:57:03 your body going on for hours afterwards
1:57:03 your body going on for hours afterwards and that's not only on your metabolism
1:57:05 and that's not only on your metabolism
1:57:05 and that's not only on your metabolism but it's also going to keep your
1:57:07 but it's also going to keep your
1:57:07 but it's also going to keep your neurotransmitters activated as well and
1:57:09 neurotransmitters activated as well and
1:57:09 neurotransmitters activated as well and increase that because your body is still
1:57:12 increase that because your body is still
1:57:12 increase that because your body is still cold so you need that those
1:57:14 cold so you need that those
1:57:14 cold so you need that those neurotransmitters to activate the brown
1:57:16 neurotransmitters to activate the brown
1:57:16 neurotransmitters to activate the brown fat as well so that's going to make your
1:57:18 fat as well so that's going to make your
1:57:18 fat as well so that's going to make your brown fat cells more efficient and also
1:57:20 brown fat cells more efficient and also
1:57:20 brown fat cells more efficient and also your muscle cells more efficient so
1:57:21 your muscle cells more efficient so
1:57:21 your muscle cells more efficient so increase mitochondria in the cells which
1:57:24 increase mitochondria in the cells which
1:57:24 increase mitochondria in the cells which will then generate heat very fast so if
1:57:27 will then generate heat very fast so if
1:57:27 will then generate heat very fast so if you have done this for a few times so
1:57:29 you have done this for a few times so
1:57:29 you have done this for a few times so maybe three four five times um being new
1:57:32 maybe three four five times um being new
1:57:32 maybe three four five times um being new to this but have tried it a few times
1:57:35 to this but have tried it a few times
1:57:35 to this but have tried it a few times you will notice a switch where you like
1:57:37 you will notice a switch where you like
1:57:37 you will notice a switch where you like feel that you get easily warmer and you
1:57:41 feel that you get easily warmer and you
1:57:41 feel that you get easily warmer and you can keep yourself warmer and that is
1:57:43 can keep yourself warmer and that is
1:57:43 can keep yourself warmer and that is also what we shown in in my study is
1:57:45 also what we shown in in my study is
1:57:45 also what we shown in in my study is that the the winter swimmers were
1:57:47 that the the winter swimmers were
1:57:47 that the the winter swimmers were physically uh warmer on the skin
1:57:50 physically uh warmer on the skin
1:57:50 physically uh warmer on the skin compared to the control group so they
1:57:52 compared to the control group so they
1:57:52 compared to the control group so they when they are out of the cold when
1:57:54 when they are out of the cold when
1:57:54 when they are out of the cold when they're out of the cold just relaxing
1:57:56 they're out of the cold just relaxing
1:57:56 they're out of the cold just relaxing and we tested this in in on the days
1:57:59 and we tested this in in on the days
1:57:59 and we tested this in in on the days where they were sleeping in the lab so
1:58:00 where they were sleeping in the lab so
1:58:00 where they were sleeping in the lab so we could see that they had a a more
1:58:03 we could see that they had a a more
1:58:03 we could see that they had a a more activation of the brown fat higher
1:58:05 activation of the brown fat higher
1:58:05 activation of the brown fat higher temperature so probably because they
1:58:07 temperature so probably because they
1:58:07 temperature so probably because they also loose heat uh they have higher heat
1:58:10 also loose heat uh they have higher heat
1:58:10 also loose heat uh they have higher heat loss to the body compared to the control
1:58:12 loss to the body compared to the control
1:58:12 loss to the body compared to the control group um because they have a more
1:58:15 group um because they have a more
1:58:15 group um because they have a more vascular skin uh because of the contrast
1:58:19 vascular skin uh because of the contrast
1:58:19 vascular skin uh because of the contrast of cold and heat so they lose heat
1:58:21 of cold and heat so they lose heat
1:58:21 of cold and heat so they lose heat faster from the body during that day but
1:58:24 faster from the body during that day but
1:58:24 faster from the body during that day but is that a bad thing no probably not
1:58:27 is that a bad thing no probably not
1:58:27 is that a bad thing no probably not because that's going to keep your brown
1:58:29 because that's going to keep your brown
1:58:29 because that's going to keep your brown fat and your muscles a little bit
1:58:30 fat and your muscles a little bit
1:58:30 fat and your muscles a little bit activated so you will have to it has to
1:58:34 activated so you will have to it has to
1:58:34 activated so you will have to it has to work to keep you warm I and I would
1:58:37 work to keep you warm I and I would
1:58:37 work to keep you warm I and I would hypothesize that it also might lead to
1:58:39 hypothesize that it also might lead to
1:58:39 hypothesize that it also might lead to some of the um subjectively reported
1:58:41 some of the um subjectively reported
1:58:41 some of the um subjectively reported improvements in sleep because in order
1:58:43 improvements in sleep because in order
1:58:43 improvements in sleep because in order to fall asleep you need your core body
1:58:45 to fall asleep you need your core body
1:58:45 to fall asleep you need your core body temperature to drop by about 1 to 3° yes
1:58:48 temperature to drop by about 1 to 3° yes
1:58:48 temperature to drop by about 1 to 3° yes so it's not just sufficient to be
1:58:50 so it's not just sufficient to be
1:58:50 so it's not just sufficient to be sleeping in a cold room and the blanket
1:58:52 sleeping in a cold room and the blanket
1:58:52 sleeping in a cold room and the blanket you also need your body temperature to
1:58:54 you also need your body temperature to
1:58:54 you also need your body temperature to drop yes and so what you're um saying if
1:58:57 drop yes and so what you're um saying if
1:58:57 drop yes and so what you're um saying if I understand correctly is that by
1:58:58 I understand correctly is that by
1:58:58 I understand correctly is that by forcing by ending on cold and forcing
1:59:01 forcing by ending on cold and forcing
1:59:01 forcing by ending on cold and forcing oneself to heat up naturally um that
1:59:04 oneself to heat up naturally um that
1:59:04 oneself to heat up naturally um that increases the brown fat storage which I
1:59:07 increases the brown fat storage which I
1:59:07 increases the brown fat storage which I sort of see as a kind of like the oil in
1:59:09 sort of see as a kind of like the oil in
1:59:09 sort of see as a kind of like the oil in the candle yeah of the Furnace that is
1:59:13 the candle yeah of the Furnace that is
1:59:13 the candle yeah of the Furnace that is thermogenesis and
1:59:15 thermogenesis and
1:59:15 thermogenesis and that in turn leads to increased heat
1:59:18 that in turn leads to increased heat
1:59:18 that in turn leads to increased heat loss which people might think oh I don't
1:59:19 loss which people might think oh I don't
1:59:19 loss which people might think oh I don't want to lose heat from the body but
1:59:21 want to lose heat from the body but
1:59:21 want to lose heat from the body but there are times when you want to lose
1:59:22 there are times when you want to lose
1:59:22 there are times when you want to lose heat from the body basically it sounds
1:59:24 heat from the body basically it sounds
1:59:24 heat from the body basically it sounds like what we want is to be a very
1:59:25 like what we want is to be a very
1:59:25 like what we want is to be a very efficient heating and cooling system yes
1:59:28 efficient heating and cooling system yes
1:59:28 efficient heating and cooling system yes that it's not about being cold or being
1:59:30 that it's not about being cold or being
1:59:30 that it's not about being cold or being hot it's really about keeping the system
1:59:33 hot it's really about keeping the system
1:59:33 hot it's really about keeping the system tuned well keeping the oil in the candle
1:59:35 tuned well keeping the oil in the candle
1:59:36 tuned well keeping the oil in the candle this brown fat um functioning yeah what
1:59:39 this brown fat um functioning yeah what
1:59:39 this brown fat um functioning yeah what could I ask one question about um fed or
1:59:41 could I ask one question about um fed or
1:59:41 could I ask one question about um fed or fasted is there any rather are there any
1:59:45 fasted is there any rather are there any
1:59:45 fasted is there any rather are there any known benefits of doing deliberate cold
1:59:48 known benefits of doing deliberate cold
1:59:48 known benefits of doing deliberate cold exposure and dorsa fasted uh versus um
1:59:52 exposure and dorsa fasted uh versus um
1:59:52 exposure and dorsa fasted uh versus um after a a meal say within the last hour
1:59:55 after a a meal say within the last hour
1:59:55 after a a meal say within the last hour or something of that sort I do my
1:59:56 or something of that sort I do my
1:59:56 or something of that sort I do my deliberate cold exposure first thing in
1:59:58 deliberate cold exposure first thing in
1:59:58 deliberate cold exposure first thing in the morning um so in general I'm fasted
2:00:01 the morning um so in general I'm fasted
2:00:01 the morning um so in general I'm fasted because I don't eat until a little bit
2:00:02 because I don't eat until a little bit
2:00:02 because I don't eat until a little bit later in the day uh but what's known
2:00:05 later in the day uh but what's known
2:00:05 later in the day uh but what's known about that and was that looked at in
2:00:07 about that and was that looked at in
2:00:07 about that and was that looked at in your study I know you measured glucose
2:00:09 your study I know you measured glucose
2:00:09 your study I know you measured glucose but that was as a separate um test away
2:00:12 but that was as a separate um test away
2:00:12 but that was as a separate um test away from the cold away from the cold yeah
2:00:14 from the cold away from the cold yeah
2:00:14 from the cold away from the cold yeah but I also tested glucose on the days on
2:00:17 but I also tested glucose on the days on
2:00:17 but I also tested glucose on the days on the cold so we measured that as well on
2:00:19 the cold so we measured that as well on
2:00:19 the cold so we measured that as well on on the cooling days um specifically on
2:00:22 on the cooling days um specifically on
2:00:22 on the cooling days um specifically on fasting and fat I don't know uh I don't
2:00:26 fasting and fat I don't know uh I don't
2:00:26 fasting and fat I don't know uh I don't think that I have seen studies
2:00:27 think that I have seen studies
2:00:27 think that I have seen studies specifically on this okay um more
2:00:30 specifically on this okay um more
2:00:30 specifically on this okay um more science needed um a number of people ask
2:00:34 science needed um a number of people ask
2:00:34 science needed um a number of people ask about the use of deliberate cold
2:00:36 about the use of deliberate cold
2:00:36 about the use of deliberate cold exposure to offset some of the symptoms
2:00:39 exposure to offset some of the symptoms
2:00:39 exposure to offset some of the symptoms of various diseases now here we're not
2:00:41 of various diseases now here we're not
2:00:41 of various diseases now here we're not talking about curing disease we're
2:00:42 talking about curing disease we're
2:00:42 talking about curing disease we're talking about offsetting symptoms um one
2:00:45 talking about offsetting symptoms um one
2:00:45 talking about offsetting symptoms um one question I've seen quite often is
2:00:46 question I've seen quite often is
2:00:46 question I've seen quite often is whether or not people with rod syndrome
2:00:48 whether or not people with rod syndrome
2:00:48 whether or not people with rod syndrome this is a syndrome my high school
2:00:50 this is a syndrome my high school
2:00:50 this is a syndrome my high school girlfriend had the syndrome and I'll
2:00:51 girlfriend had the syndrome and I'll
2:00:51 girlfriend had the syndrome and I'll never forget at uh we went at a a school
2:00:53 never forget at uh we went at a a school
2:00:53 never forget at uh we went at a a school dance together and um this was when we
2:00:56 dance together and um this was when we
2:00:56 dance together and um this was when we first started dating and um she had
2:00:58 first started dating and um she had
2:00:58 first started dating and um she had rodes which leads to very poor blood
2:01:01 rodes which leads to very poor blood
2:01:01 rodes which leads to very poor blood flow to the the uh the extremities and
2:01:04 flow to the the uh the extremities and
2:01:04 flow to the the uh the extremities and um and she was very cold so she left to
2:01:07 um and she was very cold so she left to
2:01:07 um and she was very cold so she left to go to the bathroom and warm up her hands
2:01:09 go to the bathroom and warm up her hands
2:01:09 go to the bathroom and warm up her hands in the warm water and I was left
2:01:11 in the warm water and I was left
2:01:11 in the warm water and I was left standing there at the dance and people
2:01:12 standing there at the dance and people
2:01:12 standing there at the dance and people came up to me and asked you know why I
2:01:14 came up to me and asked you know why I
2:01:14 came up to me and asked you know why I was there and who I was there with and I
2:01:16 was there and who I was there with and I
2:01:16 was there and who I was there with and I kept telling them who I was with and
2:01:17 kept telling them who I was with and
2:01:17 kept telling them who I was with and they didn't believe me cuz they couldn't
2:01:18 they didn't believe me cuz they couldn't
2:01:18 they didn't believe me cuz they couldn't believe that she would be with me made
2:01:20 believe that she would be with me made
2:01:20 believe that she would be with me made total sense if you knew me at the time
2:01:22 total sense if you knew me at the time
2:01:22 total sense if you knew me at the time um I was I I was way out of my league
2:01:25 um I was I I was way out of my league
2:01:25 um I was I I was way out of my league with her um at the time I like to think
2:01:27 with her um at the time I like to think
2:01:27 with her um at the time I like to think eventually I caught up but in any case
2:01:30 eventually I caught up but in any case
2:01:30 eventually I caught up but in any case um she was in the bathroom for about an
2:01:32 um she was in the bathroom for about an
2:01:32 um she was in the bathroom for about an hour so at one point I did consider the
2:01:34 hour so at one point I did consider the
2:01:34 hour so at one point I did consider the possibility that she had just left but
2:01:36 possibility that she had just left but
2:01:36 possibility that she had just left but indeed she hadn't she warmed her hands
2:01:38 indeed she hadn't she warmed her hands
2:01:38 indeed she hadn't she warmed her hands back up but people with Rod suffer from
2:01:40 back up but people with Rod suffer from
2:01:40 back up but people with Rod suffer from this um from this thing of very very
2:01:43 this um from this thing of very very
2:01:43 this um from this thing of very very cold extremities um their fingertips
2:01:46 cold extremities um their fingertips
2:01:46 cold extremities um their fingertips will even turn blue um you know as if
2:01:48 will even turn blue um you know as if
2:01:49 will even turn blue um you know as if they were starting to get frostbitten
2:01:50 they were starting to get frostbitten
2:01:50 they were starting to get frostbitten it's quite dramatic um and that question
2:01:54 it's quite dramatic um and that question
2:01:54 it's quite dramatic um and that question gets asked whether or not there's any
2:01:55 gets asked whether or not there's any
2:01:55 gets asked whether or not there's any use of cold to try and increase the um
2:01:58 use of cold to try and increase the um
2:01:58 use of cold to try and increase the um elasticity the plasticity of the of the
2:02:01 elasticity the plasticity of the of the
2:02:01 elasticity the plasticity of the of the uh small capillaries and vessels by
2:02:04 uh small capillaries and vessels by
2:02:04 uh small capillaries and vessels by everything you've described um up until
2:02:05 everything you've described um up until
2:02:05 everything you've described um up until now it seems like that would be a
2:02:07 now it seems like that would be a
2:02:07 now it seems like that would be a logical thing to do um and in addition
2:02:10 logical thing to do um and in addition
2:02:10 logical thing to do um and in addition to that whether or not people with
2:02:12 to that whether or not people with
2:02:12 to that whether or not people with autoimmune conditions people with um any
2:02:14 autoimmune conditions people with um any
2:02:14 autoimmune conditions people with um any other types of conditions are known to
2:02:16 other types of conditions are known to
2:02:16 other types of conditions are known to benefit from deliberate cold exposure
2:02:18 benefit from deliberate cold exposure
2:02:18 benefit from deliberate cold exposure I'm not aware of any studies but I get
2:02:20 I'm not aware of any studies but I get
2:02:20 I'm not aware of any studies but I get asked about this a lot there were a lot
2:02:22 asked about this a lot there were a lot
2:02:22 asked about this a lot there were a lot of questions about this for you in in
2:02:23 of questions about this for you in in
2:02:23 of questions about this for you in in the Twitter feed yeah thank you for
2:02:25 the Twitter feed yeah thank you for
2:02:25 the Twitter feed yeah thank you for those questions and I get them as well
2:02:27 those questions and I get them as well
2:02:27 those questions and I get them as well on social media and I have to say that I
2:02:30 on social media and I have to say that I
2:02:30 on social media and I have to say that I I haven't seen any studies directed on
2:02:33 I haven't seen any studies directed on
2:02:33 I haven't seen any studies directed on this outcome and measuring ruid syndrome
2:02:37 this outcome and measuring ruid syndrome
2:02:37 this outcome and measuring ruid syndrome um I do know that it's it's a it's not
2:02:40 um I do know that it's it's a it's not
2:02:40 um I do know that it's it's a it's not that rare actually a problem and I know
2:02:42 that rare actually a problem and I know
2:02:42 that rare actually a problem and I know that many women or more me women than
2:02:45 that many women or more me women than
2:02:45 that many women or more me women than men uh suffer from this um but logically
2:02:49 men uh suffer from this um but logically
2:02:49 men uh suffer from this um but logically it would help them if they expose their
2:02:52 it would help them if they expose their
2:02:52 it would help them if they expose their hands to cold and also heat to make the
2:02:55 hands to cold and also heat to make the
2:02:55 hands to cold and also heat to make the V it more vascular but and I have heard
2:02:59 V it more vascular but and I have heard
2:02:59 V it more vascular but and I have heard from people saying that it had helped
2:03:00 from people saying that it had helped
2:03:00 from people saying that it had helped them but also heard for some others
2:03:02 them but also heard for some others
2:03:02 them but also heard for some others saying it didn't help them so studies
2:03:05 saying it didn't help them so studies
2:03:05 saying it didn't help them so studies are needed on this specific topic I
2:03:08 are needed on this specific topic I
2:03:08 are needed on this specific topic I think MH I hurt my hands when I go into
2:03:10 think MH I hurt my hands when I go into
2:03:10 think MH I hurt my hands when I go into the coine I don't have this syndrome at
2:03:12 the coine I don't have this syndrome at
2:03:12 the coine I don't have this syndrome at all uh but I keep my hands above the
2:03:15 all uh but I keep my hands above the
2:03:15 all uh but I keep my hands above the water you do yeah I do that um often I
2:03:19 water you do yeah I do that um often I
2:03:19 water you do yeah I do that um often I take a little bit of a swim and then of
2:03:21 take a little bit of a swim and then of
2:03:21 take a little bit of a swim and then of course I to have my hands in the water
2:03:24 course I to have my hands in the water
2:03:24 course I to have my hands in the water uh but it helps me when I then get back
2:03:26 uh but it helps me when I then get back
2:03:26 uh but it helps me when I then get back to the Dy um and then take my hands up
2:03:30 to the Dy um and then take my hands up
2:03:30 to the Dy um and then take my hands up because then I can stand there for a
2:03:31 because then I can stand there for a
2:03:31 because then I can stand there for a little bit and get my one to two minutes
2:03:34 little bit and get my one to two minutes
2:03:34 little bit and get my one to two minutes exposure uh and then I can go up because
2:03:37 exposure uh and then I can go up because
2:03:37 exposure uh and then I can go up because then otherwise that would stop me from
2:03:40 then otherwise that would stop me from
2:03:40 then otherwise that would stop me from being in the water enough time that I as
2:03:43 being in the water enough time that I as
2:03:43 being in the water enough time that I as long as I I would like to so if people
2:03:45 long as I I would like to so if people
2:03:45 long as I I would like to so if people suffer from having this pain in the
2:03:47 suffer from having this pain in the
2:03:47 suffer from having this pain in the fingers and it it can be very intense so
2:03:50 fingers and it it can be very intense so
2:03:50 fingers and it it can be very intense so just take the hands up a bit from the
2:03:52 just take the hands up a bit from the
2:03:52 just take the hands up a bit from the water and uh and that's going to help
2:03:54 water and uh and that's going to help
2:03:54 water and uh and that's going to help you also boots neoprene boots it's going
2:03:56 you also boots neoprene boots it's going
2:03:56 you also boots neoprene boots it's going to help on the feet some people have the
2:03:58 to help on the feet some people have the
2:03:58 to help on the feet some people have the hurt um feel the pain in the feet and or
2:04:00 hurt um feel the pain in the feet and or
2:04:00 hurt um feel the pain in the feet and or in the ankles and that's going to help
2:04:02 in the ankles and that's going to help
2:04:02 in the ankles and that's going to help them also a little bit okay so there is
2:04:05 them also a little bit okay so there is
2:04:05 them also a little bit okay so there is no problem with keeping hands out or
2:04:08 no problem with keeping hands out or
2:04:08 no problem with keeping hands out or feet in uh nepr booties if people feel
2:04:13 feet in uh nepr booties if people feel
2:04:13 feet in uh nepr booties if people feel the need to do that if that's what the
2:04:15 the need to do that if that's what the
2:04:15 the need to do that if that's what the if pain of the hands or feet is a
2:04:17 if pain of the hands or feet is a
2:04:17 if pain of the hands or feet is a barrier for people doing uh deliberate
2:04:19 barrier for people doing uh deliberate
2:04:19 barrier for people doing uh deliberate cold exposure then it seems it would be
2:04:21 cold exposure then it seems it would be
2:04:21 cold exposure then it seems it would be okay to do uh to keep hands out or to
2:04:23 okay to do uh to keep hands out or to
2:04:23 okay to do uh to keep hands out or to keep your feet in yes because then you
2:04:25 keep your feet in yes because then you
2:04:25 keep your feet in yes because then you you do get the exposure uh but of course
2:04:28 you do get the exposure uh but of course
2:04:28 you do get the exposure uh but of course hands and feet are very potent uh places
2:04:31 hands and feet are very potent uh places
2:04:31 hands and feet are very potent uh places in your body to get a fast activation uh
2:04:35 in your body to get a fast activation uh
2:04:35 in your body to get a fast activation uh of your nervous system of course but if
2:04:38 of your nervous system of course but if
2:04:38 of your nervous system of course but if you can just you can also just dip them
2:04:39 you can just you can also just dip them
2:04:39 you can just you can also just dip them and then take them off it's going still
2:04:41 and then take them off it's going still
2:04:41 and then take them off it's going still going to activate that but you have your
2:04:43 going to activate that but you have your
2:04:43 going to activate that but you have your full body is covered in in the co-
2:04:46 full body is covered in in the co-
2:04:46 full body is covered in in the co- receptors you have a full activation
2:04:48 receptors you have a full activation
2:04:48 receptors you have a full activation anyways so you you were providing very
2:04:51 anyways so you you were providing very
2:04:51 anyways so you you were providing very very reassuring information to people
2:04:53 very reassuring information to people
2:04:53 very reassuring information to people because I know a number of people that
2:04:54 because I know a number of people that
2:04:54 because I know a number of people that do not like to put their hands in I find
2:04:56 do not like to put their hands in I find
2:04:56 do not like to put their hands in I find that the more of my body I get in the
2:04:59 that the more of my body I get in the
2:04:59 that the more of my body I get in the more comfortable I am psych I don't know
2:05:01 more comfortable I am psych I don't know
2:05:01 more comfortable I am psych I don't know if it's psychologically Andor
2:05:03 if it's psychologically Andor
2:05:03 if it's psychologically Andor physiologically I find that if where
2:05:05 physiologically I find that if where
2:05:05 physiologically I find that if where there's an interface between the water
2:05:07 there's an interface between the water
2:05:07 there's an interface between the water and the cold it's most uncomfortable so
2:05:10 and the cold it's most uncomfortable so
2:05:10 and the cold it's most uncomfortable so I prefer to just get everything under I
2:05:12 I prefer to just get everything under I
2:05:12 I prefer to just get everything under I keep my head out although I these days
2:05:13 keep my head out although I these days
2:05:13 keep my head out although I these days I've been dunking all the way in and
2:05:14 I've been dunking all the way in and
2:05:14 I've been dunking all the way in and then coming out and then dunking once
2:05:16 then coming out and then dunking once
2:05:16 then coming out and then dunking once more with my head under before I get out
2:05:18 more with my head under before I get out
2:05:18 more with my head under before I get out after the the plunge um that raises
2:05:21 after the the plunge um that raises
2:05:21 after the the plunge um that raises different question now we're getting
2:05:22 different question now we're getting
2:05:22 different question now we're getting into kind of the practicalities of
2:05:24 into kind of the practicalities of
2:05:24 into kind of the practicalities of deliberate cold exposure which I think
2:05:25 deliberate cold exposure which I think
2:05:25 deliberate cold exposure which I think are important um sometimes I'll
2:05:28 are important um sometimes I'll
2:05:28 are important um sometimes I'll experience and I hear from a lot of
2:05:30 experience and I hear from a lot of
2:05:30 experience and I hear from a lot of people that they'll get a kind of back
2:05:32 people that they'll get a kind of back
2:05:32 people that they'll get a kind of back of the head headache at the interface of
2:05:34 of the head headache at the interface of
2:05:34 of the head headache at the interface of the of the water um you know when
2:05:37 the of the water um you know when
2:05:37 the of the water um you know when they're in doing cold immersion to the
2:05:38 they're in doing cold immersion to the
2:05:38 they're in doing cold immersion to the neck um okay I assume this has to do
2:05:41 neck um okay I assume this has to do
2:05:41 neck um okay I assume this has to do with blood flow that there's Vaso
2:05:42 with blood flow that there's Vaso
2:05:43 with blood flow that there's Vaso constriction right up until the neck and
2:05:45 constriction right up until the neck and
2:05:45 constriction right up until the neck and in the region surrounding it but that
2:05:46 in the region surrounding it but that
2:05:46 in the region surrounding it but that maybe there's still blood flow to the
2:05:47 maybe there's still blood flow to the
2:05:48 maybe there's still blood flow to the head but do we know what the origin of
2:05:50 head but do we know what the origin of
2:05:50 head but do we know what the origin of these um heada is and again this doesn't
2:05:53 these um heada is and again this doesn't
2:05:53 these um heada is and again this doesn't happen for everybody but some people do
2:05:54 happen for everybody but some people do
2:05:54 happen for everybody but some people do experience them okay yeah I haven't
2:05:56 experience them okay yeah I haven't
2:05:57 experience them okay yeah I haven't really heard about that one specifically
2:05:59 really heard about that one specifically
2:05:59 really heard about that one specifically um so but I would say that there are
2:06:03 um so but I would say that there are
2:06:03 um so but I would say that there are different reasons for maybe keeping your
2:06:05 different reasons for maybe keeping your
2:06:05 different reasons for maybe keeping your head out of the water but it seems like
2:06:07 head out of the water but it seems like
2:06:07 head out of the water but it seems like maybe for some that could be a reason
2:06:08 maybe for some that could be a reason
2:06:08 maybe for some that could be a reason for like just getting like a quick head
2:06:11 for like just getting like a quick head
2:06:11 for like just getting like a quick head dunk going all the way in once that's
2:06:13 dunk going all the way in once that's
2:06:13 dunk going all the way in once that's what I've started doing to eliminate I
2:06:15 what I've started doing to eliminate I
2:06:15 what I've started doing to eliminate I it wasn't getting headaches but I could
2:06:17 it wasn't getting headaches but I could
2:06:17 it wasn't getting headaches but I could I noticed that interface and and I
2:06:19 I noticed that interface and and I
2:06:19 I noticed that interface and and I wasn't in the rest of the experience it
2:06:21 wasn't in the rest of the experience it
2:06:21 wasn't in the rest of the experience it so
2:06:22 so
2:06:22 so experience of it so much so I started
2:06:23 experience of it so much so I started
2:06:23 experience of it so much so I started dunking all the way in I noticed in some
2:06:25 dunking all the way in I noticed in some
2:06:25 dunking all the way in I noticed in some of the photos that you've put out and in
2:06:27 of the photos that you've put out and in
2:06:27 of the photos that you've put out and in your book that you'll sometimes wear a
2:06:29 your book that you'll sometimes wear a
2:06:29 your book that you'll sometimes wear a cap while you go in yeah okay and well
2:06:32 cap while you go in yeah okay and well
2:06:32 cap while you go in yeah okay and well it comes from uh different reasons uh so
2:06:36 it comes from uh different reasons uh so
2:06:36 it comes from uh different reasons uh so let's talk about some of the
2:06:37 let's talk about some of the
2:06:37 let's talk about some of the physiological reasons so when you
2:06:39 physiological reasons so when you
2:06:39 physiological reasons so when you submerge in cold water up to the neck um
2:06:43 submerge in cold water up to the neck um
2:06:43 submerge in cold water up to the neck um Studies have shown and this is from
2:06:44 Studies have shown and this is from
2:06:44 Studies have shown and this is from Denmark studies from Bia hospital um
2:06:48 Denmark studies from Bia hospital um
2:06:48 Denmark studies from Bia hospital um that when you submerge into cold water
2:06:50 that when you submerge into cold water
2:06:50 that when you submerge into cold water up to the neck at Z degrees uh so 0
2:06:53 up to the neck at Z degrees uh so 0
2:06:53 up to the neck at Z degrees uh so 0 degrees Celsius very cold um you will
2:06:56 degrees Celsius very cold um you will
2:06:56 degrees Celsius very cold um you will have a decreased blood flow to the brain
2:06:58 have a decreased blood flow to the brain
2:06:58 have a decreased blood flow to the brain by around 30 to
2:07:00 by around 30 to
2:07:00 by around 30 to 40% and makes sense because you activate
2:07:02 40% and makes sense because you activate
2:07:02 40% and makes sense because you activate the sympathetic nervous system uh and
2:07:05 the sympathetic nervous system uh and
2:07:05 the sympathetic nervous system uh and and therefore you will have a less blood
2:07:06 and therefore you will have a less blood
2:07:06 and therefore you will have a less blood flow to the brain makes you maybe a
2:07:07 flow to the brain makes you maybe a
2:07:07 flow to the brain makes you maybe a little bit disser and proof again that
2:07:09 little bit disser and proof again that
2:07:09 little bit disser and proof again that you're you need a heart more than a
2:07:11 you're you need a heart more than a
2:07:11 you're you need a heart more than a brain because when the sympathetic
2:07:13 brain because when the sympathetic
2:07:13 brain because when the sympathetic nervous system gets activated uh blood
2:07:15 nervous system gets activated uh blood
2:07:15 nervous system gets activated uh blood flow is maintained to the heart to keep
2:07:17 flow is maintained to the heart to keep
2:07:17 flow is maintained to the heart to keep you alive but obviously taken away from
2:07:18 you alive but obviously taken away from
2:07:18 you alive but obviously taken away from the brain to keep you from thinking
2:07:20 the brain to keep you from thinking
2:07:20 the brain to keep you from thinking that's why it's hard to think when
2:07:21 that's why it's hard to think when
2:07:21 that's why it's hard to think when you're stressed yeah well the muscles
2:07:23 you're stressed yeah well the muscles
2:07:23 you're stressed yeah well the muscles and then and your vital organs need to
2:07:25 and then and your vital organs need to
2:07:25 and then and your vital organs need to you have to be able to run away from
2:07:26 you have to be able to run away from
2:07:26 you have to be able to run away from that tiger right the rationale Mak total
2:07:29 that tiger right the rationale Mak total
2:07:29 that tiger right the rationale Mak total sense and who am I to disagree with
2:07:31 sense and who am I to disagree with
2:07:31 sense and who am I to disagree with Mother Nature right well but yeah so one
2:07:35 Mother Nature right well but yeah so one
2:07:35 Mother Nature right well but yeah so one of the reasons being that you should
2:07:36 of the reasons being that you should
2:07:36 of the reasons being that you should keep your head out of the water is that
2:07:39 keep your head out of the water is that
2:07:39 keep your head out of the water is that you could increase that uh decrease in
2:07:43 you could increase that uh decrease in
2:07:43 you could increase that uh decrease in blood flow to the brain further if you
2:07:45 blood flow to the brain further if you
2:07:45 blood flow to the brain further if you dun the head so there's this a very nice
2:07:48 dun the head so there's this a very nice
2:07:48 dun the head so there's this a very nice paper from um from a a research group in
2:07:51 paper from um from a a research group in
2:07:51 paper from um from a a research group in Canada where they have collectively
2:07:54 Canada where they have collectively
2:07:54 Canada where they have collectively looked at different papers where they
2:07:56 looked at different papers where they
2:07:56 looked at different papers where they compared heat loss in a group in the
2:07:59 compared heat loss in a group in the
2:07:59 compared heat loss in a group in the papers where they dunk the head and
2:08:01 papers where they dunk the head and
2:08:01 papers where they dunk the head and compared to heat lws uh submerging up to
2:08:04 compared to heat lws uh submerging up to
2:08:04 compared to heat lws uh submerging up to the neck to see how much extra heat do
2:08:08 the neck to see how much extra heat do
2:08:08 the neck to see how much extra heat do we lose from our core when we dunk the
2:08:10 we lose from our core when we dunk the
2:08:10 we lose from our core when we dunk the head so and I think it's very
2:08:12 head so and I think it's very
2:08:12 head so and I think it's very interesting that if you submerge up to
2:08:14 interesting that if you submerge up to
2:08:14 interesting that if you submerge up to the neck you have a heat loss of 11%
2:08:17 the neck you have a heat loss of 11%
2:08:17 the neck you have a heat loss of 11% from the body core and when you then uh
2:08:20 from the body core and when you then uh
2:08:20 from the body core and when you then uh also d the head you will increase that
2:08:24 also d the head you will increase that
2:08:24 also d the head you will increase that heat loss rate by
2:08:27 heat loss rate by
2:08:27 heat loss rate by 36% so that mean I'm not saying that I'm
2:08:30 36% so that mean I'm not saying that I'm
2:08:30 36% so that mean I'm not saying that I'm not I'm not here to say what is right
2:08:32 not I'm not here to say what is right
2:08:32 not I'm not here to say what is right and what is wrong I just think that
2:08:33 and what is wrong I just think that
2:08:33 and what is wrong I just think that people should know the information so
2:08:35 people should know the information so
2:08:35 people should know the information so they can for themselves evaluate what is
2:08:38 they can for themselves evaluate what is
2:08:38 they can for themselves evaluate what is best for them but if you increase your
2:08:40 best for them but if you increase your
2:08:40 best for them but if you increase your heat loss rate by 36% from your core
2:08:44 heat loss rate by 36% from your core
2:08:44 heat loss rate by 36% from your core that's going to increase your after drop
2:08:47 that's going to increase your after drop
2:08:47 that's going to increase your after drop which we touched upon a little bit
2:08:48 which we touched upon a little bit
2:08:48 which we touched upon a little bit earlier even further so that's meaning
2:08:51 earlier even further so that's meaning
2:08:51 earlier even further so that's meaning that you you are closer to hypothermia
2:08:53 that you you are closer to hypothermia
2:08:53 that you you are closer to hypothermia than you are if you just submerge up to
2:08:55 than you are if you just submerge up to
2:08:55 than you are if you just submerge up to the neck so you should really think
2:08:57 the neck so you should really think
2:08:57 the neck so you should really think about whether this is like something
2:08:59 about whether this is like something
2:08:59 about whether this is like something that you want to do or if it's just
2:09:01 that you want to do or if it's just
2:09:01 that you want to do or if it's just better for you not to get that cold in
2:09:04 better for you not to get that cold in
2:09:04 better for you not to get that cold in your core the beanie is also because I
2:09:07 your core the beanie is also because I
2:09:08 your core the beanie is also because I have a little bit of sensitive ears so
2:09:09 have a little bit of sensitive ears so
2:09:10 have a little bit of sensitive ears so it meaning that if there's wind and
2:09:11 it meaning that if there's wind and
2:09:11 it meaning that if there's wind and because we swim in the open sea in
2:09:13 because we swim in the open sea in
2:09:13 because we swim in the open sea in Denmark we have a lot of wind our wind
2:09:16 Denmark we have a lot of wind our wind
2:09:16 Denmark we have a lot of wind our wind our conditions are just very rainy very
2:09:19 our conditions are just very rainy very
2:09:20 our conditions are just very rainy very windy and when the temperature is also
2:09:22 windy and when the temperature is also
2:09:22 windy and when the temperature is also freezing you could get this um what is
2:09:26 freezing you could get this um what is
2:09:26 freezing you could get this um what is that called um so very cold and Li
2:09:29 that called um so very cold and Li
2:09:29 that called um so very cold and Li headed just from wind so if you also sub
2:09:31 headed just from wind so if you also sub
2:09:31 headed just from wind so if you also sub merg into cold water and you then get up
2:09:33 merg into cold water and you then get up
2:09:33 merg into cold water and you then get up you could you will get a brain freeze
2:09:35 you could you will get a brain freeze
2:09:35 you could you will get a brain freeze immediately yeah so it is enough to just
2:09:38 immediately yeah so it is enough to just
2:09:38 immediately yeah so it is enough to just go up to the neck wear a beanie to just
2:09:41 go up to the neck wear a beanie to just
2:09:41 go up to the neck wear a beanie to just not get dizy also because the the um the
2:09:44 not get dizy also because the the um the
2:09:44 not get dizy also because the the um the heat loss is increased of course but
2:09:47 heat loss is increased of course but
2:09:47 heat loss is increased of course but also the blood flow to the brain has
2:09:49 also the blood flow to the brain has
2:09:49 also the blood flow to the brain has decreased so the beanie will keep you a
2:09:51 decreased so the beanie will keep you a
2:09:51 decreased so the beanie will keep you a little bit warmer so you can stay for
2:09:52 little bit warmer so you can stay for
2:09:52 little bit warmer so you can stay for one to two minutes so it's just a way of
2:09:54 one to two minutes so it's just a way of
2:09:54 one to two minutes so it's just a way of like getting around some of the
2:09:56 like getting around some of the
2:09:56 like getting around some of the conditions also so people can choose
2:09:58 conditions also so people can choose
2:09:58 conditions also so people can choose that if they they feel that but it's
2:10:01 that if they they feel that but it's
2:10:01 that if they they feel that but it's quite normal to do in in Scandinavia
2:10:03 quite normal to do in in Scandinavia
2:10:03 quite normal to do in in Scandinavia where aini I love it and um so for those
2:10:06 where aini I love it and um so for those
2:10:06 where aini I love it and um so for those of you afraid of doing a two-minute cold
2:10:08 of you afraid of doing a two-minute cold
2:10:08 of you afraid of doing a two-minute cold shower what uh Dr Silber just described
2:10:11 shower what uh Dr Silber just described
2:10:11 shower what uh Dr Silber just described uh let's uh you see how um she and
2:10:14 uh let's uh you see how um she and
2:10:14 uh let's uh you see how um she and others are capable of doing things far
2:10:16 others are capable of doing things far
2:10:16 others are capable of doing things far harder than that um when the way you
2:10:18 harder than that um when the way you
2:10:18 harder than that um when the way you describe it with the cold wind and
2:10:19 describe it with the cold wind and
2:10:19 describe it with the cold wind and Scandinavia and uh um is is quite
2:10:22 Scandinavia and uh um is is quite
2:10:23 Scandinavia and uh um is is quite striking it along the lines of covering
2:10:25 striking it along the lines of covering
2:10:25 striking it along the lines of covering the head um there's this um seemingly
2:10:29 the head um there's this um seemingly
2:10:29 the head um there's this um seemingly paradoxical uh thing of people going
2:10:31 paradoxical uh thing of people going
2:10:31 paradoxical uh thing of people going into hot saunas and wearing wool caps
2:10:35 into hot saunas and wearing wool caps
2:10:35 into hot saunas and wearing wool caps you know if you go to a or you I go to
2:10:38 you know if you go to a or you I go to
2:10:38 you know if you go to a or you I go to uh auna and there are people who are um
2:10:41 uh auna and there are people who are um
2:10:41 uh auna and there are people who are um well from Eastern Europe or typically or
2:10:43 well from Eastern Europe or typically or
2:10:43 well from Eastern Europe or typically or Finland or um Russia or Ukraine or
2:10:47 Finland or um Russia or Ukraine or
2:10:47 Finland or um Russia or Ukraine or elsewhere what you'll see is that many
2:10:48 elsewhere what you'll see is that many
2:10:48 elsewhere what you'll see is that many of them are wearing wool caps in the
2:10:50 of them are wearing wool caps in the
2:10:50 of them are wearing wool caps in the sauna which many people think is to make
2:10:52 sauna which many people think is to make
2:10:52 sauna which many people think is to make it hotter that's actually not the case
2:10:54 it hotter that's actually not the case
2:10:54 it hotter that's actually not the case it actually insulates you from the heat
2:10:56 it actually insulates you from the heat
2:10:56 it actually insulates you from the heat environment the urg the sense of urgency
2:10:58 environment the urg the sense of urgency
2:10:58 environment the urg the sense of urgency to get out of the hot sauna is a braind
2:11:01 to get out of the hot sauna is a braind
2:11:01 to get out of the hot sauna is a braind driven mechanism and so um the reason
2:11:04 driven mechanism and so um the reason
2:11:04 driven mechanism and so um the reason that people wear wool hats in the sauna
2:11:06 that people wear wool hats in the sauna
2:11:06 that people wear wool hats in the sauna is it actually lets you stay in the
2:11:07 is it actually lets you stay in the
2:11:08 is it actually lets you stay in the sauna longer um because it takes a lot
2:11:11 sauna longer um because it takes a lot
2:11:11 sauna longer um because it takes a lot of heat to the skin before you feel that
2:11:13 of heat to the skin before you feel that
2:11:13 of heat to the skin before you feel that you you have quote unquote have to get
2:11:15 you you have quote unquote have to get
2:11:15 you you have quote unquote have to get out whereas so when you insulate the
2:11:17 out whereas so when you insulate the
2:11:17 out whereas so when you insulate the brain um you don't get that signal um
2:11:20 brain um you don't get that signal um
2:11:20 brain um you don't get that signal um it's pretty interesting I've tried this
2:11:22 it's pretty interesting I've tried this
2:11:22 it's pretty interesting I've tried this before just by putting a towel over my
2:11:23 before just by putting a towel over my
2:11:23 before just by putting a towel over my head in the sauna and you can stay in
2:11:24 head in the sauna and you can stay in
2:11:24 head in the sauna and you can stay in there you much more easily and for for
2:11:27 there you much more easily and for for
2:11:27 there you much more easily and for for much longer you know as we talk about
2:11:30 much longer you know as we talk about
2:11:30 much longer you know as we talk about these different stimuli for um the
2:11:32 these different stimuli for um the
2:11:32 these different stimuli for um the hormetic response the adaptation to
2:11:34 hormetic response the adaptation to
2:11:34 hormetic response the adaptation to stress you know it occurs to me that the
2:11:36 stress you know it occurs to me that the
2:11:36 stress you know it occurs to me that the the big ones in our evolutionary history
2:11:39 the big ones in our evolutionary history
2:11:39 the big ones in our evolutionary history have been light right I mean you were
2:11:42 have been light right I mean you were
2:11:42 have been light right I mean you were talking about seasonal changes um we
2:11:45 talking about seasonal changes um we
2:11:45 talking about seasonal changes um we know there especially as you go up to
2:11:47 know there especially as you go up to
2:11:47 know there especially as you go up to Nordic countries there are seasonal
2:11:48 Nordic countries there are seasonal
2:11:48 Nordic countries there are seasonal changes in the amount of Light by time
2:11:50 changes in the amount of Light by time
2:11:50 changes in the amount of Light by time of year atic ones in fact less so at the
2:11:53 of year atic ones in fact less so at the
2:11:53 of year atic ones in fact less so at the equator of course um light temperature
2:11:58 equator of course um light temperature
2:11:58 equator of course um light temperature food
2:11:59 food
2:11:59 food movement and it it's sort of interesting
2:12:02 movement and it it's sort of interesting
2:12:02 movement and it it's sort of interesting and and at the same time perhaps it
2:12:03 and and at the same time perhaps it
2:12:03 and and at the same time perhaps it should have been obvious to us that
2:12:05 should have been obvious to us that
2:12:05 should have been obvious to us that there are stimy that our bodies have
2:12:09 there are stimy that our bodies have
2:12:09 there are stimy that our bodies have evolved to adapt to in very powerful
2:12:12 evolved to adapt to in very powerful
2:12:12 evolved to adapt to in very powerful ways and so the idea that temperature
2:12:15 ways and so the idea that temperature
2:12:15 ways and so the idea that temperature heat and cold could evoke these
2:12:18 heat and cold could evoke these
2:12:18 heat and cold could evoke these tremendous physiological changes that
2:12:20 tremendous physiological changes that
2:12:20 tremendous physiological changes that are beneficial for us
2:12:21 are beneficial for us
2:12:21 are beneficial for us probably shouldn't surprise us at all I
2:12:23 probably shouldn't surprise us at all I
2:12:23 probably shouldn't surprise us at all I mean I mean this is why we I mean these
2:12:25 mean I mean this is why we I mean these
2:12:25 mean I mean this is why we I mean these are not um ESO esoteric mechanisms
2:12:28 are not um ESO esoteric mechanisms
2:12:28 are not um ESO esoteric mechanisms they're actually the the foundational
2:12:30 they're actually the the foundational
2:12:30 they're actually the the foundational mechanisms by which our our body and the
2:12:32 mechanisms by which our our body and the
2:12:32 mechanisms by which our our body and the bodies of other animals adapt um so I do
2:12:36 bodies of other animals adapt um so I do
2:12:36 bodies of other animals adapt um so I do have a question about the uh different
2:12:38 have a question about the uh different
2:12:38 have a question about the uh different ways that people could approach
2:12:40 ways that people could approach
2:12:40 ways that people could approach deliberate cold exposure so for instance
2:12:43 deliberate cold exposure so for instance
2:12:43 deliberate cold exposure so for instance um children uh I've been to Bas where
2:12:47 um children uh I've been to Bas where
2:12:47 um children uh I've been to Bas where there are kids you know six or seven
2:12:49 there are kids you know six or seven
2:12:49 there are kids you know six or seven years old with their parents at the B um
2:12:51 years old with their parents at the B um
2:12:51 years old with their parents at the B um and so they're in hot sauna I'm not
2:12:53 and so they're in hot sauna I'm not
2:12:53 and so they're in hot sauna I'm not suggesting people do this if they're if
2:12:55 suggesting people do this if they're if
2:12:55 suggesting people do this if they're if they're not you know adapted to it and
2:12:56 they're not you know adapted to it and
2:12:56 they're not you know adapted to it and you know talk to your parents kids and
2:12:58 you know talk to your parents kids and
2:12:58 you know talk to your parents kids and talk to your kids's parents um talk to
2:13:00 talk to your kids's parents um talk to
2:13:00 talk to your kids's parents um talk to your doctors um but is remarkable I mean
2:13:03 your doctors um but is remarkable I mean
2:13:03 your doctors um but is remarkable I mean uh children doing sauna from a young age
2:13:05 uh children doing sauna from a young age
2:13:05 uh children doing sauna from a young age or deliberate cold exposure are there
2:13:07 or deliberate cold exposure are there
2:13:07 or deliberate cold exposure are there any data on this and is it safe assuming
2:13:10 any data on this and is it safe assuming
2:13:10 any data on this and is it safe assuming that you know obviously that they can
2:13:11 that you know obviously that they can
2:13:11 that you know obviously that they can swim and or they're doing this in a in a
2:13:13 swim and or they're doing this in a in a
2:13:13 swim and or they're doing this in a in a tub or shower um and then I'd also like
2:13:16 tub or shower um and then I'd also like
2:13:16 tub or shower um and then I'd also like to ask you about are there any
2:13:17 to ask you about are there any
2:13:18 to ask you about are there any additional male female differences I
2:13:20 additional male female differences I
2:13:20 additional male female differences I know you're study focused um on men but
2:13:23 know you're study focused um on men but
2:13:23 know you're study focused um on men but um other Studies have focused on both
2:13:26 um other Studies have focused on both
2:13:26 um other Studies have focused on both and you of course um are a woman and can
2:13:28 and you of course um are a woman and can
2:13:28 and you of course um are a woman and can attest to your own experience with this
2:13:30 attest to your own experience with this
2:13:30 attest to your own experience with this um so children men women um differences
2:13:34 um so children men women um differences
2:13:34 um so children men women um differences there in terms of protocols is there
2:13:36 there in terms of protocols is there
2:13:36 there in terms of protocols is there anything that people should build into
2:13:37 anything that people should build into
2:13:37 anything that people should build into the structure of of their deliberate
2:13:39 the structure of of their deliberate
2:13:39 the structure of of their deliberate cold exposure that's unique to that uh
2:13:42 cold exposure that's unique to that uh
2:13:42 cold exposure that's unique to that uh so yeah so this was on cold exposure so
2:13:45 so yeah so this was on cold exposure so
2:13:45 so yeah so this was on cold exposure so um yeah I think that um starting with
2:13:49 um yeah I think that um starting with
2:13:49 um yeah I think that um starting with the the question about children um I
2:13:51 the the question about children um I
2:13:51 the the question about children um I think that it's important to to think
2:13:54 think that it's important to to think
2:13:54 think that it's important to to think about as children are smaller than
2:13:56 about as children are smaller than
2:13:56 about as children are smaller than adults so we cannot really completely
2:13:59 adults so we cannot really completely
2:13:59 adults so we cannot really completely transfer all the information and the
2:14:01 transfer all the information and the
2:14:01 transfer all the information and the benefits and also protocols for how long
2:14:04 benefits and also protocols for how long
2:14:04 benefits and also protocols for how long and and and stuff like that to children
2:14:06 and and and stuff like that to children
2:14:06 and and and stuff like that to children we cannot do that because they are just
2:14:08 we cannot do that because they are just
2:14:08 we cannot do that because they are just smaller in mass and one study that
2:14:11 smaller in mass and one study that
2:14:11 smaller in mass and one study that actually um proves this is a study where
2:14:14 actually um proves this is a study where
2:14:14 actually um proves this is a study where they have compared heat loss uh in um
2:14:19 they have compared heat loss uh in um
2:14:19 they have compared heat loss uh in um children boys who were 12 years old uh
2:14:22 children boys who were 12 years old uh
2:14:22 children boys who were 12 years old uh compared to um adults um men and looked
2:14:26 compared to um adults um men and looked
2:14:26 compared to um adults um men and looked at the heat loss of the core temperature
2:14:29 at the heat loss of the core temperature
2:14:29 at the heat loss of the core temperature and exposed them to a one or one or two
2:14:33 and exposed them to a one or one or two
2:14:33 and exposed them to a one or one or two minutes um cold exposure or immersion up
2:14:36 minutes um cold exposure or immersion up
2:14:36 minutes um cold exposure or immersion up to the neck and what they saw was that
2:14:39 to the neck and what they saw was that
2:14:39 to the neck and what they saw was that the the the boys in this study could
2:14:42 the the the boys in this study could
2:14:42 the the the boys in this study could actually defend the core temperature in
2:14:45 actually defend the core temperature in
2:14:45 actually defend the core temperature in same way as the adults could but they
2:14:49 same way as the adults could but they
2:14:49 same way as the adults could but they had to use their muscles way faster so
2:14:51 had to use their muscles way faster so
2:14:52 had to use their muscles way faster so it means that they couldn't stay for as
2:14:54 it means that they couldn't stay for as
2:14:54 it means that they couldn't stay for as long uh and they use more energy to
2:14:57 long uh and they use more energy to
2:14:57 long uh and they use more energy to defend their core temperature compared
2:14:59 defend their core temperature compared
2:14:59 defend their core temperature compared to the to the adults but for one minute
2:15:01 to the to the adults but for one minute
2:15:01 to the to the adults but for one minute it seems that they could actually comp
2:15:04 it seems that they could actually comp
2:15:04 it seems that they could actually comp but they will be colder when they then
2:15:06 but they will be colder when they then
2:15:06 but they will be colder when they then come out because they are smaller in
2:15:08 come out because they are smaller in
2:15:08 come out because they are smaller in their Mass to their Rao right so it
2:15:12 their Mass to their Rao right so it
2:15:12 their Mass to their Rao right so it means that if the surface is so large on
2:15:15 means that if the surface is so large on
2:15:15 means that if the surface is so large on children and their mass and muscles
2:15:17 children and their mass and muscles
2:15:18 children and their mass and muscles being smaller to that ratio it means
2:15:20 being smaller to that ratio it means
2:15:20 being smaller to that ratio it means that they can be in the water uh less
2:15:23 that they can be in the water uh less
2:15:23 that they can be in the water uh less time before they get hypothermic so just
2:15:27 time before they get hypothermic so just
2:15:27 time before they get hypothermic so just think about that they are just smaller
2:15:29 think about that they are just smaller
2:15:29 think about that they are just smaller they can't defend their temperature for
2:15:31 they can't defend their temperature for
2:15:31 they can't defend their temperature for a very long time but in this study they
2:15:33 a very long time but in this study they
2:15:33 a very long time but in this study they saw that for up to I think it it was a
2:15:36 saw that for up to I think it it was a
2:15:36 saw that for up to I think it it was a minute or so they could minute one
2:15:37 minute or so they could minute one
2:15:37 minute or so they could minute one minute yeah I'm glad you mentioned
2:15:38 minute yeah I'm glad you mentioned
2:15:38 minute yeah I'm glad you mentioned hypothermia and smaller bodied um people
2:15:41 hypothermia and smaller bodied um people
2:15:41 hypothermia and smaller bodied um people children uh I used to do some um Pacific
2:15:44 children uh I used to do some um Pacific
2:15:44 children uh I used to do some um Pacific uh ocean swims in the morning um without
2:15:47 uh ocean swims in the morning um without
2:15:47 uh ocean swims in the morning um without wet suits and I adapted to it pretty
2:15:49 wet suits and I adapted to it pretty
2:15:49 wet suits and I adapted to it pretty quickly and these are fairly long swim
2:15:51 quickly and these are fairly long swim
2:15:51 quickly and these are fairly long swim and we brought an excellent swimmer with
2:15:53 and we brought an excellent swimmer with
2:15:53 and we brought an excellent swimmer with us um a that was interning with me for a
2:15:57 us um a that was interning with me for a
2:15:57 us um a that was interning with me for a while um is 16 years old at the time and
2:16:00 while um is 16 years old at the time and
2:16:00 while um is 16 years old at the time and um very lean and um he wasn't small for
2:16:03 um very lean and um he wasn't small for
2:16:03 um very lean and um he wasn't small for his age but he was smaller than us than
2:16:05 his age but he was smaller than us than
2:16:05 his age but he was smaller than us than the it was all guys on the swim that day
2:16:08 the it was all guys on the swim that day
2:16:08 the it was all guys on the swim that day Sometimes women join us um and he got
2:16:12 Sometimes women join us um and he got
2:16:12 Sometimes women join us um and he got hypothermic um and he's an excellent
2:16:14 hypothermic um and he's an excellent
2:16:14 hypothermic um and he's an excellent swimmer and he didn't report feeling
2:16:16 swimmer and he didn't report feeling
2:16:16 swimmer and he didn't report feeling overly cold but um fortunately we got
2:16:19 overly cold but um fortunately we got
2:16:19 overly cold but um fortunately we got him to Shore and heated him up again
2:16:21 him to Shore and heated him up again
2:16:21 him to Shore and heated him up again um so he lived I don't think his
2:16:23 um so he lived I don't think his
2:16:23 um so he lived I don't think his mother's going to ever let him go
2:16:24 mother's going to ever let him go
2:16:24 mother's going to ever let him go swimming with us again he's thriving in
2:16:26 swimming with us again he's thriving in
2:16:26 swimming with us again he's thriving in the world he's a university student now
2:16:28 the world he's a university student now
2:16:28 the world he's a university student now um and he recalls that swim I mean this
2:16:31 um and he recalls that swim I mean this
2:16:31 um and he recalls that swim I mean this is why you always want to Ocean swim
2:16:32 is why you always want to Ocean swim
2:16:32 is why you always want to Ocean swim with a buddy with people um yeah he he
2:16:36 with a buddy with people um yeah he he
2:16:36 with a buddy with people um yeah he he became hypothermic his teeth turned
2:16:38 became hypothermic his teeth turned
2:16:38 became hypothermic his teeth turned yellow he was kind slurring his words he
2:16:40 yellow he was kind slurring his words he
2:16:40 yellow he was kind slurring his words he wasn't making sense you know we got him
2:16:42 wasn't making sense you know we got him
2:16:42 wasn't making sense you know we got him on the shore and he was kind of you know
2:16:44 on the shore and he was kind of you know
2:16:44 on the shore and he was kind of you know drooling and a little bit semi euphoric
2:16:47 drooling and a little bit semi euphoric
2:16:47 drooling and a little bit semi euphoric and then kind of you know it was um
2:16:48 and then kind of you know it was um
2:16:48 and then kind of you know it was um hypothermia is no joke so I think yeah
2:16:51 hypothermia is no joke so I think yeah
2:16:51 hypothermia is no joke so I think yeah so I I I'm really glad that this is
2:16:53 so I I I'm really glad that this is
2:16:53 so I I I'm really glad that this is coming up because the cold is a powerful
2:16:55 coming up because the cold is a powerful
2:16:55 coming up because the cold is a powerful stimulus and um and I and kids are at a
2:16:58 stimulus and um and I and kids are at a
2:16:58 stimulus and um and I and kids are at a and smaller bodied people are at at
2:17:00 and smaller bodied people are at at
2:17:00 and smaller bodied people are at at greater risk of hypothermia so a good
2:17:02 greater risk of hypothermia so a good
2:17:02 greater risk of hypothermia so a good reason to approach it with caution maybe
2:17:04 reason to approach it with caution maybe
2:17:04 reason to approach it with caution maybe start with cold showers get uh then cold
2:17:06 start with cold showers get uh then cold
2:17:06 start with cold showers get uh then cold immersion and still water natural water
2:17:08 immersion and still water natural water
2:17:08 immersion and still water natural water and open bodies of water of course are
2:17:10 and open bodies of water of course are
2:17:10 and open bodies of water of course are always going to be um more dangerous for
2:17:12 always going to be um more dangerous for
2:17:12 always going to be um more dangerous for other reasons currents and things of
2:17:14 other reasons currents and things of
2:17:14 other reasons currents and things of that sort exactly okay I'm drowning yeah
2:17:16 that sort exactly okay I'm drowning yeah
2:17:16 that sort exactly okay I'm drowning yeah so important note there um what about
2:17:19 so important note there um what about
2:17:19 so important note there um what about any additional male female differences
2:17:21 any additional male female differences
2:17:21 any additional male female differences or similarities that um we should be
2:17:23 or similarities that um we should be
2:17:23 or similarities that um we should be aware of and this comes up all the time
2:17:25 aware of and this comes up all the time
2:17:25 aware of and this comes up all the time on social media anytime I post anything
2:17:27 on social media anytime I post anything
2:17:27 on social media anytime I post anything about a study it's what about women
2:17:29 about a study it's what about women
2:17:29 about a study it's what about women because oftentimes there are differences
2:17:31 because oftentimes there are differences
2:17:31 because oftentimes there are differences um yeah yeah and and and there are we we
2:17:34 um yeah yeah and and and there are we we
2:17:34 um yeah yeah and and and there are we we also just talked about the difference in
2:17:36 also just talked about the difference in
2:17:36 also just talked about the difference in in in temperature in men and women so it
2:17:39 in in temperature in men and women so it
2:17:39 in in temperature in men and women so it means that if we did if we replicated my
2:17:43 means that if we did if we replicated my
2:17:43 means that if we did if we replicated my study in women it could be that they
2:17:46 study in women it could be that they
2:17:46 study in women it could be that they would have enough you can say cold
2:17:49 would have enough you can say cold
2:17:49 would have enough you can say cold exposure with just 9 minutes per week it
2:17:51 exposure with just 9 minutes per week it
2:17:51 exposure with just 9 minutes per week it could be because they H apparently are
2:17:54 could be because they H apparently are
2:17:54 could be because they H apparently are also just colder and uh and they have
2:17:58 also just colder and uh and they have
2:17:58 also just colder and uh and they have increased metabolism in their Brown fat
2:17:59 increased metabolism in their Brown fat
2:17:59 increased metabolism in their Brown fat it's just they have more Brown fat it
2:18:01 it's just they have more Brown fat it
2:18:01 it's just they have more Brown fat it could be but this is just something that
2:18:03 could be but this is just something that
2:18:04 could be but this is just something that I I I I frankly don't know but women
2:18:07 I I I I frankly don't know but women
2:18:07 I I I I frankly don't know but women also do cold exposure winter swimming
2:18:09 also do cold exposure winter swimming
2:18:10 also do cold exposure winter swimming with the 11 minutes protocol I do it
2:18:12 with the 11 minutes protocol I do it
2:18:12 with the 11 minutes protocol I do it myself and feel uh good about it so I
2:18:15 myself and feel uh good about it so I
2:18:15 myself and feel uh good about it so I would say that um women Also regarding
2:18:19 would say that um women Also regarding
2:18:19 would say that um women Also regarding activation of the brown fed it should be
2:18:21 activation of the brown fed it should be
2:18:21 activation of the brown fed it should be the same um in theory but I don't know
2:18:24 the same um in theory but I don't know
2:18:24 the same um in theory but I don't know if women actually do need to have
2:18:27 if women actually do need to have
2:18:27 if women actually do need to have another protocol when it comes to this
2:18:29 another protocol when it comes to this
2:18:29 another protocol when it comes to this rapid cold exposure I think that it's
2:18:32 rapid cold exposure I think that it's
2:18:32 rapid cold exposure I think that it's another question if we are talking about
2:18:34 another question if we are talking about
2:18:34 another question if we are talking about ice swimming when it comes to how far
2:18:37 ice swimming when it comes to how far
2:18:37 ice swimming when it comes to how far can you be in the cold water without
2:18:39 can you be in the cold water without
2:18:39 can you be in the cold water without getting hypothermic then there will be
2:18:41 getting hypothermic then there will be
2:18:41 getting hypothermic then there will be differences in men and and and female
2:18:44 differences in men and and and female
2:18:44 differences in men and and and female but but if you do this cold exposure for
2:18:47 but but if you do this cold exposure for
2:18:47 but but if you do this cold exposure for a very brief amount of time which is
2:18:49 a very brief amount of time which is
2:18:49 a very brief amount of time which is what I try to to talk to about talk
2:18:51 what I try to to talk to about talk
2:18:51 what I try to to talk to about talk about the what we call also micr
2:18:53 about the what we call also micr
2:18:53 about the what we call also micr stressing the body to to increase the
2:18:55 stressing the body to to increase the
2:18:55 stressing the body to to increase the htic stress the healthy stress then this
2:18:58 htic stress the healthy stress then this
2:18:58 htic stress the healthy stress then this is such a short amount of um exposure
2:19:02 is such a short amount of um exposure
2:19:02 is such a short amount of um exposure that it it's fairly the same I think I
2:19:05 that it it's fairly the same I think I
2:19:05 that it it's fairly the same I think I think women can look at this as a fairly
2:19:08 think women can look at this as a fairly
2:19:08 think women can look at this as a fairly good protocol for for for them as well I
2:19:11 good protocol for for for them as well I
2:19:11 good protocol for for for them as well I always say that if you really dread the
2:19:13 always say that if you really dread the
2:19:13 always say that if you really dread the cold and um and don't like the cold then
2:19:16 cold and um and don't like the cold then
2:19:16 cold and um and don't like the cold then you are a perfect candidate for using
2:19:18 you are a perfect candidate for using
2:19:18 you are a perfect candidate for using deliberate cold exposure because the
2:19:20 deliberate cold exposure because the
2:19:20 deliberate cold exposure because the sympathetic itic aka the stress response
2:19:22 sympathetic itic aka the stress response
2:19:22 sympathetic itic aka the stress response will be greater and thereby the
2:19:24 will be greater and thereby the
2:19:25 will be greater and thereby the adaptation to that shorter one or two
2:19:27 adaptation to that shorter one or two
2:19:27 adaptation to that shorter one or two minutes is um is going to be much
2:19:30 minutes is um is going to be much
2:19:30 minutes is um is going to be much greater right for people that are
2:19:31 greater right for people that are
2:19:32 greater right for people that are perfectly comfortable in the cold it's
2:19:33 perfectly comfortable in the cold it's
2:19:33 perfectly comfortable in the cold it's harder to get a an adaptation response
2:19:36 harder to get a an adaptation response
2:19:36 harder to get a an adaptation response the same way that if somebody's very
2:19:37 the same way that if somebody's very
2:19:37 the same way that if somebody's very strong and they can lift a very heavy
2:19:39 strong and they can lift a very heavy
2:19:39 strong and they can lift a very heavy weight that that very heavy weight is
2:19:40 weight that that very heavy weight is
2:19:40 weight that that very heavy weight is unlikely to evoke the same kind of or
2:19:43 unlikely to evoke the same kind of or
2:19:43 unlikely to evoke the same kind of or same degree of of uh adaptive responses
2:19:46 same degree of of uh adaptive responses
2:19:46 same degree of of uh adaptive responses if somebody is not quite as strong so
2:19:48 if somebody is not quite as strong so
2:19:48 if somebody is not quite as strong so another reason to keep these exposures
2:19:50 another reason to keep these exposures
2:19:50 another reason to keep these exposures relatively short and more frequent than
2:19:53 relatively short and more frequent than
2:19:53 relatively short and more frequent than to do longer duration exposures
2:19:56 to do longer duration exposures
2:19:56 to do longer duration exposures frequently however let's say somebody
2:19:58 frequently however let's say somebody
2:19:58 frequently however let's say somebody only had two days a week um to do
2:20:02 only had two days a week um to do
2:20:02 only had two days a week um to do deliberate cold exposure maybe they
2:20:04 deliberate cold exposure maybe they
2:20:04 deliberate cold exposure maybe they don't have access to a sauna maybe they
2:20:05 don't have access to a sauna maybe they
2:20:05 don't have access to a sauna maybe they do would you suggest that they get in
2:20:08 do would you suggest that they get in
2:20:08 do would you suggest that they get in for one or two minutes then get out then
2:20:10 for one or two minutes then get out then
2:20:10 for one or two minutes then get out then get back in for another couple of
2:20:12 get back in for another couple of
2:20:12 get back in for another couple of minutes then get out and call that for
2:20:15 minutes then get out and call that for
2:20:15 minutes then get out and call that for you know four or five minutes um to try
2:20:17 you know four or five minutes um to try
2:20:17 you know four or five minutes um to try and get to that 11 minutes total per
2:20:19 and get to that 11 minutes total per
2:20:19 and get to that 11 minutes total per week um as opposed to getting in for a
2:20:21 week um as opposed to getting in for a
2:20:21 week um as opposed to getting in for a full 5 minutes um and then getting out
2:20:24 full 5 minutes um and then getting out
2:20:24 full 5 minutes um and then getting out and coming back a second time that week
2:20:26 and coming back a second time that week
2:20:26 and coming back a second time that week I know this is getting down into the
2:20:27 I know this is getting down into the
2:20:27 I know this is getting down into the weeds but these are the sorts of things
2:20:29 weeds but these are the sorts of things
2:20:29 weeds but these are the sorts of things that I think people really want to know
2:20:30 that I think people really want to know
2:20:30 that I think people really want to know because not a lot of people either don't
2:20:32 because not a lot of people either don't
2:20:32 because not a lot of people either don't live close to a body of water or don't
2:20:35 live close to a body of water or don't
2:20:35 live close to a body of water or don't have a cold plunge um that they can do
2:20:37 have a cold plunge um that they can do
2:20:37 have a cold plunge um that they can do this with although cold shower
2:20:39 this with although cold shower
2:20:39 this with although cold shower apparently works too so most people live
2:20:42 apparently works too so most people live
2:20:42 apparently works too so most people live close to a shower yeah as so definitely
2:20:44 close to a shower yeah as so definitely
2:20:44 close to a shower yeah as so definitely I think the the changes in temperature
2:20:47 I think the the changes in temperature
2:20:47 I think the the changes in temperature is what is strengthening your your cells
2:20:51 is what is strengthening your your cells
2:20:51 is what is strengthening your your cells in the body so if you can do the short
2:20:53 in the body so if you can do the short
2:20:53 in the body so if you can do the short amount of uh exposure and then get out
2:20:56 amount of uh exposure and then get out
2:20:56 amount of uh exposure and then get out and get back in that is going to you can
2:20:59 and get back in that is going to you can
2:20:59 and get back in that is going to you can say um um strengthen your cells because
2:21:02 say um um strengthen your cells because
2:21:02 say um um strengthen your cells because you are challenging them to to adapt to
2:21:06 you are challenging them to to adapt to
2:21:06 you are challenging them to to adapt to um changing temp temperatures so during
2:21:09 um changing temp temperatures so during
2:21:09 um changing temp temperatures so during one session you can change this right
2:21:11 one session you can change this right
2:21:11 one session you can change this right you you can do it if you are able to go
2:21:13 you you can do it if you are able to go
2:21:13 you you can do it if you are able to go to cold water but also a SAA then you
2:21:15 to cold water but also a SAA then you
2:21:15 to cold water but also a SAA then you just do it that automatically you will
2:21:17 just do it that automatically you will
2:21:17 just do it that automatically you will have a change in temperature but you
2:21:19 have a change in temperature but you
2:21:19 have a change in temperature but you could also do it where variating the
2:21:21 could also do it where variating the
2:21:21 could also do it where variating the temperature in your Co plune if you have
2:21:23 temperature in your Co plune if you have
2:21:23 temperature in your Co plune if you have if you have a plunge or if you have the
2:21:25 if you have a plunge or if you have the
2:21:25 if you have a plunge or if you have the Open Sea or you have seasoning Seasons
2:21:27 Open Sea or you have seasoning Seasons
2:21:27 Open Sea or you have seasoning Seasons even you have we have that in Denmark so
2:21:29 even you have we have that in Denmark so
2:21:29 even you have we have that in Denmark so we have four seasons and the temperature
2:21:32 we have four seasons and the temperature
2:21:32 we have four seasons and the temperature is going to vary with that so we have
2:21:33 is going to vary with that so we have
2:21:33 is going to vary with that so we have nature who can just change this for us
2:21:36 nature who can just change this for us
2:21:36 nature who can just change this for us and we don't have to think about it if
2:21:37 and we don't have to think about it if
2:21:37 and we don't have to think about it if you have a cold plunge well then I would
2:21:40 you have a cold plunge well then I would
2:21:40 you have a cold plunge well then I would say that changing the temperature is
2:21:42 say that changing the temperature is
2:21:42 say that changing the temperature is what is going to create this romatic
2:21:43 what is going to create this romatic
2:21:43 what is going to create this romatic stress and also keep your cells on its
2:21:47 stress and also keep your cells on its
2:21:47 stress and also keep your cells on its toes you can say because you are try the
2:21:49 toes you can say because you are try the
2:21:49 toes you can say because you are try the body will still
2:21:51 body will still
2:21:51 body will still be um stressed to try to adapt to the
2:21:54 be um stressed to try to adapt to the
2:21:54 be um stressed to try to adapt to the new temperature as it's seen as
2:21:56 new temperature as it's seen as
2:21:57 new temperature as it's seen as something actually toxic to the body
2:21:58 something actually toxic to the body
2:21:58 something actually toxic to the body right it's a small small piece of
2:22:01 right it's a small small piece of
2:22:01 right it's a small small piece of toxicity that you are exposing yourself
2:22:03 toxicity that you are exposing yourself
2:22:04 toxicity that you are exposing yourself to you don't have to swallow it but it's
2:22:06 to you don't have to swallow it but it's
2:22:06 to you don't have to swallow it but it's enough that you touch it actually yeah
2:22:08 enough that you touch it actually yeah
2:22:08 enough that you touch it actually yeah great uh great way to frame it um that
2:22:12 great uh great way to frame it um that
2:22:12 great uh great way to frame it um that brings me back to this idea of circadian
2:22:14 brings me back to this idea of circadian
2:22:14 brings me back to this idea of circadian time in your study you didn't um control
2:22:17 time in your study you didn't um control
2:22:17 time in your study you didn't um control for specific time of day and now I'm
2:22:19 for specific time of day and now I'm
2:22:19 for specific time of day and now I'm realizing that may be a great asset to
2:22:22 realizing that may be a great asset to
2:22:22 realizing that may be a great asset to the whole thing so we know for instance
2:22:24 the whole thing so we know for instance
2:22:24 the whole thing so we know for instance that our bodies go through pretty
2:22:25 that our bodies go through pretty
2:22:25 that our bodies go through pretty dramatic shifts in temperature from the
2:22:27 dramatic shifts in temperature from the
2:22:27 dramatic shifts in temperature from the time we wake up um our body starts
2:22:29 time we wake up um our body starts
2:22:29 time we wake up um our body starts heating up as we wake up and um
2:22:31 heating up as we wake up and um
2:22:31 heating up as we wake up and um continues to heat until the afternoon
2:22:33 continues to heat until the afternoon
2:22:33 continues to heat until the afternoon and then starts to drop in the later
2:22:34 and then starts to drop in the later
2:22:34 and then starts to drop in the later afternoon and then assuming all things
2:22:36 afternoon and then assuming all things
2:22:36 afternoon and then assuming all things are working correctly um that body
2:22:39 are working correctly um that body
2:22:39 are working correctly um that body temperature drops and we sleep so I
2:22:41 temperature drops and we sleep so I
2:22:41 temperature drops and we sleep so I could imagine that doing deliberate cold
2:22:42 could imagine that doing deliberate cold
2:22:42 could imagine that doing deliberate cold exposure at different times um just by
2:22:46 exposure at different times um just by
2:22:46 exposure at different times um just by way of convenience or by way of
2:22:47 way of convenience or by way of
2:22:47 way of convenience or by way of intention could be very beneficial
2:22:49 intention could be very beneficial
2:22:49 intention could be very beneficial because my body temp is going to be
2:22:51 because my body temp is going to be
2:22:51 because my body temp is going to be quite a bit warmer at one time of day
2:22:52 quite a bit warmer at one time of day
2:22:52 quite a bit warmer at one time of day versus another and in that way keeping
2:22:55 versus another and in that way keeping
2:22:55 versus another and in that way keeping the system tuned and that's really what
2:22:56 the system tuned and that's really what
2:22:57 the system tuned and that's really what I keep hearing coming through in as you
2:22:59 I keep hearing coming through in as you
2:22:59 I keep hearing coming through in as you explain these data and all these um
2:23:01 explain these data and all these um
2:23:01 explain these data and all these um beautiful studies yours and others is
2:23:03 beautiful studies yours and others is
2:23:03 beautiful studies yours and others is that it's not really about getting cold
2:23:06 that it's not really about getting cold
2:23:06 that it's not really about getting cold it's about going from warm to cold and
2:23:08 it's about going from warm to cold and
2:23:08 it's about going from warm to cold and from cold to warm it's not it and I love
2:23:11 from cold to warm it's not it and I love
2:23:11 from cold to warm it's not it and I love this idea because I probably said this a
2:23:15 this idea because I probably said this a
2:23:15 this idea because I probably said this a hundred times on my podcast and a
2:23:16 hundred times on my podcast and a
2:23:16 hundred times on my podcast and a million times in my life and I'll
2:23:18 million times in my life and I'll
2:23:18 million times in my life and I'll continue to which is that biology is not
2:23:20 continue to which is that biology is not
2:23:20 continue to which is that biology is not an event it's a process like these these
2:23:22 an event it's a process like these these
2:23:22 an event it's a process like these these um metabolic and Thermo regulatory
2:23:25 um metabolic and Thermo regulatory
2:23:25 um metabolic and Thermo regulatory processes are indeed like the Turning of
2:23:27 processes are indeed like the Turning of
2:23:27 processes are indeed like the Turning of a knob it's a verb yeah it's as opposed
2:23:30 a knob it's a verb yeah it's as opposed
2:23:30 a knob it's a verb yeah it's as opposed to a noun and I and so I I think if
2:23:33 to a noun and I and so I I think if
2:23:33 to a noun and I and so I I think if people can internalize that idea that
2:23:35 people can internalize that idea that
2:23:35 people can internalize that idea that they're going to um have a lot more
2:23:37 they're going to um have a lot more
2:23:37 they're going to um have a lot more flexibility a lot more fun and and get a
2:23:39 flexibility a lot more fun and and get a
2:23:39 flexibility a lot more fun and and get a lot more benefit as opposed to thinking
2:23:41 lot more benefit as opposed to thinking
2:23:41 lot more benefit as opposed to thinking okay I need to get into X degrees of
2:23:43 okay I need to get into X degrees of
2:23:43 okay I need to get into X degrees of water for x amount of time on X number
2:23:46 water for x amount of time on X number
2:23:46 water for x amount of time on X number of days you know in a very R way all the
2:23:49 of days you know in a very R way all the
2:23:49 of days you know in a very R way all the time much and how cold and and I mean
2:23:52 time much and how cold and and I mean
2:23:52 time much and how cold and and I mean it's it's just like well because we also
2:23:55 it's it's just like well because we also
2:23:55 it's it's just like well because we also don't have studies showing exactly if
2:23:57 don't have studies showing exactly if
2:23:57 don't have studies showing exactly if you just keep five degrees in your water
2:23:59 you just keep five degrees in your water
2:23:59 you just keep five degrees in your water and you do that for a month then what
2:24:01 and you do that for a month then what
2:24:01 and you do that for a month then what happens we maybe in the future we will
2:24:03 happens we maybe in the future we will
2:24:03 happens we maybe in the future we will know much more about this and I'm I'm
2:24:05 know much more about this and I'm I'm
2:24:05 know much more about this and I'm I'm sure it's going to come and I really
2:24:07 sure it's going to come and I really
2:24:07 sure it's going to come and I really hope so but I just think by logically
2:24:10 hope so but I just think by logically
2:24:10 hope so but I just think by logically changing that temperature up and down up
2:24:12 changing that temperature up and down up
2:24:12 changing that temperature up and down up and down and you also do that in your
2:24:14 and down and you also do that in your
2:24:14 and down and you also do that in your water it doesn't really it's not that
2:24:16 water it doesn't really it's not that
2:24:16 water it doesn't really it's not that important what temperature you you will
2:24:18 important what temperature you you will
2:24:18 important what temperature you you will have your water then then just keep
2:24:20 have your water then then just keep
2:24:20 have your water then then just keep changing it going up and down it could
2:24:21 changing it going up and down it could
2:24:21 changing it going up and down it could be all up to 12° C you're going to
2:24:24 be all up to 12° C you're going to
2:24:24 be all up to 12° C you're going to activate your brown fat anyways I mean
2:24:26 activate your brown fat anyways I mean
2:24:26 activate your brown fat anyways I mean 12 uh 19° a cold air is enough to
2:24:30 12 uh 19° a cold air is enough to
2:24:30 12 uh 19° a cold air is enough to activate your brown Foods so maybe we
2:24:32 activate your brown Foods so maybe we
2:24:32 activate your brown Foods so maybe we don't have to go as cold as I think many
2:24:35 don't have to go as cold as I think many
2:24:35 don't have to go as cold as I think many people think um and putting ice even all
2:24:39 people think um and putting ice even all
2:24:39 people think um and putting ice even all the time you don't have to it's not I
2:24:41 the time you don't have to it's not I
2:24:41 the time you don't have to it's not I don't think it's necessary to to expose
2:24:44 don't think it's necessary to to expose
2:24:44 don't think it's necessary to to expose yourself to that cold uh temperature all
2:24:47 yourself to that cold uh temperature all
2:24:47 yourself to that cold uh temperature all the time um but vary it a bit so keep
2:24:50 the time um but vary it a bit so keep
2:24:50 the time um but vary it a bit so keep the system off balance and the way to
2:24:52 the system off balance and the way to
2:24:52 the system off balance and the way to keep it tuned you mentioned a study that
2:24:55 keep it tuned you mentioned a study that
2:24:55 keep it tuned you mentioned a study that is more recent or ongoing that's not
2:24:58 is more recent or ongoing that's not
2:24:58 is more recent or ongoing that's not published um if you're willing um could
2:25:00 published um if you're willing um could
2:25:00 published um if you're willing um could you share maybe some of the uh data from
2:25:03 you share maybe some of the uh data from
2:25:03 you share maybe some of the uh data from that or findings from that study um with
2:25:06 that or findings from that study um with
2:25:06 that or findings from that study um with of course the the cue to everybody that
2:25:08 of course the the cue to everybody that
2:25:08 of course the the cue to everybody that these are not yet published data so that
2:25:10 these are not yet published data so that
2:25:10 these are not yet published data so that the conclusions could change the data
2:25:12 the conclusions could change the data
2:25:12 the conclusions could change the data could change for that matter yeah so we
2:25:15 could change for that matter yeah so we
2:25:15 could change for that matter yeah so we we haven't analyzed all the data yet and
2:25:17 we haven't analyzed all the data yet and
2:25:17 we haven't analyzed all the data yet and I I know from the study that we did
2:25:19 I I know from the study that we did
2:25:19 I I know from the study that we did publish
2:25:21 publish
2:25:21 publish that we we would need to look more at
2:25:23 that we we would need to look more at
2:25:23 that we we would need to look more at the data so I don't really have any
2:25:25 the data so I don't really have any
2:25:25 the data so I don't really have any results yet that I can share because we
2:25:27 results yet that I can share because we
2:25:27 results yet that I can share because we are still in very preliminary analysis
2:25:30 are still in very preliminary analysis
2:25:30 are still in very preliminary analysis of this so I I wouldn't know yet what to
2:25:33 of this so I I wouldn't know yet what to
2:25:33 of this so I I wouldn't know yet what to exactly say about it but what we looked
2:25:35 exactly say about it but what we looked
2:25:35 exactly say about it but what we looked at was both men and women we so that's
2:25:37 at was both men and women we so that's
2:25:37 at was both men and women we so that's that's coming oh that's fantastic I um
2:25:40 that's coming oh that's fantastic I um
2:25:40 that's coming oh that's fantastic I um that answer is going to please a great
2:25:41 that answer is going to please a great
2:25:41 that answer is going to please a great number of people and and Intrigue
2:25:44 number of people and and Intrigue
2:25:44 number of people and and Intrigue everybody so well listen I I want to
2:25:49 everybody so well listen I I want to
2:25:49 everybody so well listen I I want to really thank you for coming here today
2:25:51 really thank you for coming here today
2:25:51 really thank you for coming here today to talk about your work um and the
2:25:55 to talk about your work um and the
2:25:56 to talk about your work um and the incredible direction that it points to
2:25:58 incredible direction that it points to
2:25:58 incredible direction that it points to because I think that um you know no one
2:26:02 because I think that um you know no one
2:26:02 because I think that um you know no one study is definitive but your study
2:26:04 study is definitive but your study
2:26:04 study is definitive but your study really again stands as a landmark in the
2:26:08 really again stands as a landmark in the
2:26:08 really again stands as a landmark in the landscape of exploring deliberate cold
2:26:10 landscape of exploring deliberate cold
2:26:10 landscape of exploring deliberate cold exposure and heat how it can impact and
2:26:13 exposure and heat how it can impact and
2:26:13 exposure and heat how it can impact and potentially impact our health because
2:26:16 potentially impact our health because
2:26:16 potentially impact our health because frankly there just haven't been that
2:26:17 frankly there just haven't been that
2:26:17 frankly there just haven't been that many um highresolution
2:26:20 many um highresolution
2:26:20 many um highresolution uh detailed modern studies of this there
2:26:23 uh detailed modern studies of this there
2:26:23 uh detailed modern studies of this there have been studies of sauna there have
2:26:24 have been studies of sauna there have
2:26:24 have been studies of sauna there have been some studies of cold there are a
2:26:25 been some studies of cold there are a
2:26:25 been some studies of cold there are a lot of groups in physiology that work on
2:26:27 lot of groups in physiology that work on
2:26:27 lot of groups in physiology that work on um hypothermia and very cold exposure
2:26:30 um hypothermia and very cold exposure
2:26:30 um hypothermia and very cold exposure but um most of the temperatures used in
2:26:32 but um most of the temperatures used in
2:26:32 but um most of the temperatures used in those studies just aren't practical so
2:26:34 those studies just aren't practical so
2:26:34 those studies just aren't practical so first of all I just want to thank you
2:26:35 first of all I just want to thank you
2:26:35 first of all I just want to thank you for doing the work that you've done and
2:26:37 for doing the work that you've done and
2:26:37 for doing the work that you've done and for the work that you continue to do I'm
2:26:39 for the work that you continue to do I'm
2:26:39 for the work that you continue to do I'm um uh waiting with baited breath as they
2:26:43 um uh waiting with baited breath as they
2:26:43 um uh waiting with baited breath as they say to um uh to hear the results of this
2:26:45 say to um uh to hear the results of this
2:26:45 say to um uh to hear the results of this uh study that's ongoing on both men and
2:26:47 uh study that's ongoing on both men and
2:26:47 uh study that's ongoing on both men and women so um we'll have to have you back
2:26:49 women so um we'll have to have you back
2:26:49 women so um we'll have to have you back to to inform us about that soon and I
2:26:51 to to inform us about that soon and I
2:26:51 to to inform us about that soon and I want to thank you for um the incredible
2:26:54 want to thank you for um the incredible
2:26:54 want to thank you for um the incredible public education efforts that you've
2:26:55 public education efforts that you've
2:26:55 public education efforts that you've been doing on social media um and with
2:27:00 been doing on social media um and with
2:27:00 been doing on social media um and with respect to your book um and we of course
2:27:02 respect to your book um and we of course
2:27:02 respect to your book um and we of course we'll put links to all of those things
2:27:04 we'll put links to all of those things
2:27:04 we'll put links to all of those things in the show note caption so people can
2:27:05 in the show note caption so people can
2:27:05 in the show note caption so people can learn from you and can continue to learn
2:27:07 learn from you and can continue to learn
2:27:07 learn from you and can continue to learn from you we we certainly need more
2:27:10 from you we we certainly need more
2:27:10 from you we we certainly need more scientists who are both experienced with
2:27:12 scientists who are both experienced with
2:27:12 scientists who are both experienced with doing hardcore research as it's called
2:27:15 doing hardcore research as it's called
2:27:15 doing hardcore research as it's called and who also do the practices I think
2:27:19 and who also do the practices I think
2:27:19 and who also do the practices I think that's a wonderful additional asset you
2:27:21 that's a wonderful additional asset you
2:27:21 that's a wonderful additional asset you know you're not just behind a lab Cod or
2:27:22 know you're not just behind a lab Cod or
2:27:22 know you're not just behind a lab Cod or bundled up in a in a down uh in a down
2:27:25 bundled up in a in a down uh in a down
2:27:25 bundled up in a in a down uh in a down feather jacket as everyone else is
2:27:27 feather jacket as everyone else is
2:27:27 feather jacket as everyone else is getting in the cold you do these things
2:27:29 getting in the cold you do these things
2:27:29 getting in the cold you do these things and that you are so open and generous in
2:27:32 and that you are so open and generous in
2:27:32 and that you are so open and generous in the way that you share uh knowledge
2:27:34 the way that you share uh knowledge
2:27:34 the way that you share uh knowledge which includes coming here today to to
2:27:36 which includes coming here today to to
2:27:36 which includes coming here today to to share knowledge with me and uh our
2:27:38 share knowledge with me and uh our
2:27:38 share knowledge with me and uh our audience so thank you ever so much
2:27:40 audience so thank you ever so much
2:27:40 audience so thank you ever so much you're very welcome I am so pleased to
2:27:42 you're very welcome I am so pleased to
2:27:42 you're very welcome I am so pleased to be here and thank you so much for
2:27:44 be here and thank you so much for
2:27:44 be here and thank you so much for inviting me and I could explain my study
2:27:46 inviting me and I could explain my study
2:27:46 inviting me and I could explain my study and I could share some of my insights
2:27:48 and I could share some of my insights
2:27:49 and I could share some of my insights from from doing that so I'm very
2:27:50 from from doing that so I'm very
2:27:50 from from doing that so I'm very grateful for being here delighted and
2:27:53 grateful for being here delighted and
2:27:53 grateful for being here delighted and we'll have to have you back again thank
2:27:54 we'll have to have you back again thank
2:27:54 we'll have to have you back again thank you for joining me for today's
2:27:55 you for joining me for today's
2:27:55 you for joining me for today's discussion all about deliberate cold and
2:27:57 discussion all about deliberate cold and
2:27:57 discussion all about deliberate cold and deliberate heat exposure science and
2:27:59 deliberate heat exposure science and
2:27:59 deliberate heat exposure science and protocols with Dr Susanna soberg if
2:28:01 protocols with Dr Susanna soberg if
2:28:01 protocols with Dr Susanna soberg if you'd like to learn more about Dr soberg
2:28:03 you'd like to learn more about Dr soberg
2:28:03 you'd like to learn more about Dr soberg research or you would like to learn
2:28:05 research or you would like to learn
2:28:05 research or you would like to learn about the research of her Institute The
2:28:06 about the research of her Institute The
2:28:06 about the research of her Institute The soberg Institute please see the links in
2:28:09 soberg Institute please see the links in
2:28:09 soberg Institute please see the links in the show note caption also in the show
2:28:11 the show note caption also in the show
2:28:11 the show note caption also in the show note caption you can find a link to Dr
2:28:12 note caption you can find a link to Dr
2:28:12 note caption you can find a link to Dr seberg's excellent book winter swimming
2:28:15 seberg's excellent book winter swimming
2:28:15 seberg's excellent book winter swimming if you're learning from and or enjoying
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2:30:32 [Music]