The Transformative Power of Cold Immersion: Unlocking Health and Longevity - Full Transcript

00:00Dr soberg welcome to the podcast it's a Dr soberg welcome to the podcast it's a pleasure to have you here there is a pleasure to have you here there is a pleasure to have you here there is a cold therapy winter swimming Revolution cold therapy winter swimming Revolution cold therapy winter swimming Revolution that's really taking place right now and that's really taking place right now and that's really taking place right now and anybody who's on the web social media anybody who's on the web social media anybody who's on the web social media sees it firsthand and your work and sees it firsthand and your work and sees it firsthand and your work and research is a huge part of that and your research is a huge part of that and your research is a huge part of that and your advocacy too that's there of making this advocacy too that's there of making this advocacy too that's there of making this more accessible so first and foremost more accessible so first and foremost more accessible so first and foremost thank you for being here thank you for thank you for being here thank you for thank you for being here thank you for your work I'd love to start off big your work I'd love to start off big your work I'd love to start off big picture because there's a lot of people picture because there's a lot of people picture because there's a lot of people here that still don't know the benefits here that still don't know the benefits here that still don't know the benefits and the power of cold immersion cold and the power of cold immersion cold and the power of cold immersion cold exposure winter swimming so can you exposure winter swimming so can you exposure winter swimming so can you start off with we'll get into the start off with we'll get into the start off with we'll get into the long-term benefits next but talk about long-term benefits next but talk about long-term benefits next but talk about some of the short-term benefits that some of the short-term benefits that some of the short-term benefits that come from come from come from exposing our body to an uncomfortable exposing our body to an uncomfortable exposing our body to an uncomfortable level of cold level of cold level of cold yeah thank you for having me also Drew yeah thank you for having me also Drew yeah thank you for having me also Drew here I am so excited to be here talking here I am so excited to be here talking here I am so excited to be here talking to you about the cold as a first thing to you about the cold as a first thing to you about the cold as a first thing um I think that it's a really good um I think that it's a really good um I think that it's a really good question what do we get out of doing

01:00question what do we get out of doing question what do we get out of doing deliberate cold exposure uh so as an deliberate cold exposure uh so as an deliberate cold exposure uh so as an acute thing so what do we get out of it acute thing so what do we get out of it acute thing so what do we get out of it immediately after some out during and immediately after some out during and immediately after some out during and into the cold water and I think that into the cold water and I think that into the cold water and I think that this short term benefits are amazing this short term benefits are amazing this short term benefits are amazing they're gonna show up and have long-term they're gonna show up and have long-term they're gonna show up and have long-term benefits too but the short term benefits benefits too but the short term benefits benefits too but the short term benefits it is amazing so when you submerge into it is amazing so when you submerge into it is amazing so when you submerge into cold water you have an activation of cold water you have an activation of cold water you have an activation of your sympathetic nervous system but also your sympathetic nervous system but also your sympathetic nervous system but also your parasympathetic nervous system your parasympathetic nervous system your parasympathetic nervous system which means that you will have an which means that you will have an which means that you will have an increase in dorpinephrine dopamine in increase in dorpinephrine dopamine in increase in dorpinephrine dopamine in your brain and that's gonna make you your brain and that's gonna make you your brain and that's gonna make you more focused give you drive and energy more focused give you drive and energy more focused give you drive and energy which you can take out and use that for which you can take out and use that for which you can take out and use that for the rest of your day so that's a really the rest of your day so that's a really the rest of your day so that's a really good thing if you also want to just have good thing if you also want to just have good thing if you also want to just have a more energy and you want to be more a more energy and you want to be more a more energy and you want to be more driven to something and you will use driven to something and you will use driven to something and you will use that without really forcing it it's just that without really forcing it it's just that without really forcing it it's just there just submerging yourself into cold there just submerging yourself into cold there just submerging yourself into cold water so that's amazing just one thing water so that's amazing just one thing water so that's amazing just one thing on that is that I think that we've done on that is that I think that we've done on that is that I think that we've done a lot of episodes here with different a lot of episodes here with different a lot of episodes here with different experts on the brain or relaxation experts on the brain or relaxation experts on the brain or relaxation techniques and meditation and most

02:00techniques and meditation and most techniques and meditation and most people know about the power of you know people know about the power of you know people know about the power of you know stimulating our bodies rest and relax stimulating our bodies rest and relax stimulating our bodies rest and relax right but we forget about the power of right but we forget about the power of right but we forget about the power of targeted stresses and really what I'm targeted stresses and really what I'm targeted stresses and really what I'm hearing you say with cold immersion and hearing you say with cold immersion and hearing you say with cold immersion and cold exposure is you're kind of doing cold exposure is you're kind of doing cold exposure is you're kind of doing both right which is which people don't both right which is which people don't both right which is which people don't often think of that as being good but often think of that as being good but often think of that as being good but you're explaining to us that there are you're explaining to us that there are you're explaining to us that there are benefits that come from doing that in benefits that come from doing that in benefits that come from doing that in the in the short term like that you feel the in the short term like that you feel the in the short term like that you feel pretty much right away yeah exactly and pretty much right away yeah exactly and pretty much right away yeah exactly and that is what I also called stress up to that is what I also called stress up to that is what I also called stress up to stress down so you stress yourself stress down so you stress yourself stress down so you stress yourself immediately as you go into the cold immediately as you go into the cold immediately as you go into the cold water but you do that for you're water but you do that for you're water but you do that for you're stressed for a very short amount of time stressed for a very short amount of time stressed for a very short amount of time and you can use your breath to lower and you can use your breath to lower and you can use your breath to lower that stress and that's kind of like a that stress and that's kind of like a that stress and that's kind of like a mental challenge in itself so you would mental challenge in itself so you would mental challenge in itself so you would need to overcome this stressor and with need to overcome this stressor and with need to overcome this stressor and with that you you kind of you that you you kind of you that you you kind of you you widen your window for stress by you widen your window for stress by you widen your window for stress by doing so and that is this is actually doing so and that is this is actually doing so and that is this is actually something that we need in this Society something that we need in this Society something that we need in this Society where we have this very narrow uh window

03:00where we have this very narrow uh window where we have this very narrow uh window for stress and and it's not like we we for stress and and it's not like we we for stress and and it's not like we we are not too stressed and we don't have are not too stressed and we don't have are not too stressed and we don't have too much to do we we of course do but we too much to do we we of course do but we too much to do we we of course do but we also need to adapt to that and find a also need to adapt to that and find a also need to adapt to that and find a way to get through this without having way to get through this without having way to get through this without having too much stress in our body and that is too much stress in our body and that is too much stress in our body and that is what causing all these chronic diseases what causing all these chronic diseases what causing all these chronic diseases and we are getting more sedentary and we and we are getting more sedentary and we and we are getting more sedentary and we are not moving enough so this way of are not moving enough so this way of are not moving enough so this way of increasing our stress threshold and increasing our stress threshold and increasing our stress threshold and widen our windows for stress is widen our windows for stress is widen our windows for stress is something that the cold can help us with something that the cold can help us with something that the cold can help us with so it has a lot of benefits not only so it has a lot of benefits not only so it has a lot of benefits not only immediately fit in your the immediately fit in your the immediately fit in your the physiological level of benefits but also physiological level of benefits but also physiological level of benefits but also have mental have mental have mental um benefits but it also has something to um benefits but it also has something to um benefits but it also has something to do what you can use for for uh for do what you can use for for uh for do what you can use for for uh for throughout the day so it's it's the throughout the day so it's it's the throughout the day so it's it's the highest stress threshold highest stress threshold highest stress threshold when I do cold immersion first thing in when I do cold immersion first thing in when I do cold immersion first thing in the morning and I have um a cold like the morning and I have um a cold like the morning and I have um a cold like bath that I had for a little while but bath that I had for a little while but bath that I had for a little while but sometimes I'll also do you know sometimes I'll also do you know sometimes I'll also do you know cryotherapy which you know we'll talk cryotherapy which you know we'll talk cryotherapy which you know we'll talk about the different versions that's not about the different versions that's not about the different versions that's not always accessible to a lot of people but

04:00always accessible to a lot of people but always accessible to a lot of people but I immediately feel this boost in mental I immediately feel this boost in mental I immediately feel this boost in mental Clarity it feels as if I had an espresso Clarity it feels as if I had an espresso Clarity it feels as if I had an espresso but without sort of the crash that comes but without sort of the crash that comes but without sort of the crash that comes later on what's going on there that you later on what's going on there that you later on what's going on there that you feel that sense of being alert more feel that sense of being alert more feel that sense of being alert more focused and kind of more jovial you're focused and kind of more jovial you're focused and kind of more jovial you're just more excited about the day just more excited about the day just more excited about the day exactly well that that is because of the exactly well that that is because of the exactly well that that is because of the neurotransmitters that is released in neurotransmitters that is released in neurotransmitters that is released in your in your brain and and it stays your in your brain and and it stays your in your brain and and it stays there for multiple hours afterwards so there for multiple hours afterwards so there for multiple hours afterwards so when you submit into to cold water when you submit into to cold water when you submit into to cold water studies already done in in the 1970s studies already done in in the 1970s studies already done in in the 1970s show that you increase norepinephrine up show that you increase norepinephrine up show that you increase norepinephrine up to 2.5 volts and it could actually be to 2.5 volts and it could actually be to 2.5 volts and it could actually be more and some people is actually more more and some people is actually more more and some people is actually more than that which is a huge increase in than that which is a huge increase in than that which is a huge increase in the energy you will get out of that and the energy you will get out of that and the energy you will get out of that and it's also an increase in the dopamine by it's also an increase in the dopamine by it's also an increase in the dopamine by 2.5 volt so you have this High increase 2.5 volt so you have this High increase 2.5 volt so you have this High increase of energy and you have a drive and it's of energy and you have a drive and it's of energy and you have a drive and it's also something that definitely will wake

05:00also something that definitely will wake also something that definitely will wake you up so instead of drinking maybe a you up so instead of drinking maybe a you up so instead of drinking maybe a couple of cups of coffee like you do you couple of cups of coffee like you do you couple of cups of coffee like you do you can just go into the cold water instead can just go into the cold water instead can just go into the cold water instead and have that quick Awakening and have and have that quick Awakening and have and have that quick Awakening and have that energy afterwards so it's that energy afterwards so it's that energy afterwards so it's definitely better I would say well definitely better I would say well definitely better I would say well another thing too is that you know another thing too is that you know another thing too is that you know obviously there's a lot of benefits that obviously there's a lot of benefits that obviously there's a lot of benefits that come with coffee you know people are come with coffee you know people are come with coffee you know people are making it right without like all the making it right without like all the making it right without like all the sugar all the time I'm kind of how we do sugar all the time I'm kind of how we do sugar all the time I'm kind of how we do in America but you can also do a little in America but you can also do a little in America but you can also do a little bit of both you can have a little less bit of both you can have a little less bit of both you can have a little less coffee is what I found not that I ever coffee is what I found not that I ever coffee is what I found not that I ever was like you know drinking five cups a was like you know drinking five cups a was like you know drinking five cups a day or anything but I'll typically have day or anything but I'll typically have day or anything but I'll typically have a cup but I don't feel like I'm reaching a cup but I don't feel like I'm reaching a cup but I don't feel like I'm reaching for that second cup because I have the for that second cup because I have the for that second cup because I have the natural boost that comes from that cold natural boost that comes from that cold natural boost that comes from that cold immersion what do you think are some of immersion what do you think are some of immersion what do you think are some of the reasons like what's going inside the the reasons like what's going inside the the reasons like what's going inside the body that the response to this stressful body that the response to this stressful body that the response to this stressful situation is to create something like situation is to create something like situation is to create something like dopamine like why would our body be dopamine like why would our body be dopamine like why would our body be doing that what does it think is going doing that what does it think is going doing that what does it think is going on when we are exposing ourselves to you on when we are exposing ourselves to you on when we are exposing ourselves to you know cold water is primarily what we're know cold water is primarily what we're know cold water is primarily what we're going to be talking about over here going to be talking about over here going to be talking about over here called submersion being submerged under called submersion being submerged under called submersion being submerged under the neck the neck the neck why would our body be putting out

06:00why would our body be putting out why would our body be putting out dopamine for example dopamine for example dopamine for example well when you submerge into cold water well when you submerge into cold water well when you submerge into cold water up to the neck you would have an an up to the neck you would have an an up to the neck you would have an an activation of your fight and flight activation of your fight and flight activation of your fight and flight response so that is the body trying to response so that is the body trying to response so that is the body trying to escape from this stress or this toxic escape from this stress or this toxic escape from this stress or this toxic thing that is actually going on it thing that is actually going on it thing that is actually going on it thinks that you are doing something that thinks that you are doing something that thinks that you are doing something that is going to kill you and uh and if you is going to kill you and uh and if you is going to kill you and uh and if you think about it that is actually also think about it that is actually also think about it that is actually also very dangerous to the body if you stayed very dangerous to the body if you stayed very dangerous to the body if you stayed there so the body prepares itself to to there so the body prepares itself to to there so the body prepares itself to to save you and by doing uh by doing so the save you and by doing uh by doing so the save you and by doing uh by doing so the body increases your stress response so body increases your stress response so body increases your stress response so dopamine is a stress a neurotransmitter dopamine is a stress a neurotransmitter dopamine is a stress a neurotransmitter and hormone so it's gonna increase and hormone so it's gonna increase and hormone so it's gonna increase um very rapidly to make you um very rapidly to make you um very rapidly to make you um escape this a very dangerous um escape this a very dangerous um escape this a very dangerous situation and also lower epinephrine situation and also lower epinephrine situation and also lower epinephrine adaption it's a yeah well adoption it's adaption it's a yeah well adoption it's adaption it's a yeah well adoption it's adaption it will create adaption on the adaption it will create adaption on the adaption it will create adaption on the long term long term long term um already after three plunges Studies um already after three plunges Studies um already after three plunges Studies have shown that you already get adapted

07:00have shown that you already get adapted have shown that you already get adapted to this so the body recognize Isis this to this so the body recognize Isis this to this so the body recognize Isis this situation and prepares itself this is a situation and prepares itself this is a situation and prepares itself this is a process that happens in the cells where process that happens in the cells where process that happens in the cells where the cells um increase a heat shock the cells um increase a heat shock the cells um increase a heat shock proteins and also prepares itself for proteins and also prepares itself for proteins and also prepares itself for getting stronger so resilience in the getting stronger so resilience in the getting stronger so resilience in the cells and also resilience just cells and also resilience just cells and also resilience just systemically but um if you do this for systemically but um if you do this for systemically but um if you do this for the first time you will feel quite much the first time you will feel quite much the first time you will feel quite much pain actually so it's painful during the pain actually so it's painful during the pain actually so it's painful during the first plunge I don't know if you first plunge I don't know if you first plunge I don't know if you remember yours but I remember mine and remember yours but I remember mine and remember yours but I remember mine and it was really painful it was really painful it was really painful um so physically but also a bit mentally um so physically but also a bit mentally um so physically but also a bit mentally because I was so anxious about this but because I was so anxious about this but because I was so anxious about this but also it was um if everything in my body also it was um if everything in my body also it was um if everything in my body told me to escape this so dopamine told me to escape this so dopamine told me to escape this so dopamine norepinephrine and adrenaline cortisol norepinephrine and adrenaline cortisol norepinephrine and adrenaline cortisol is increasing and that is to save you is increasing and that is to save you is increasing and that is to save you because this is a dangerous situation because this is a dangerous situation because this is a dangerous situation potentially if you didn't do it potentially if you didn't do it potentially if you didn't do it deliberately right and it's and there deliberately right and it's and there deliberately right and it's and there are some situations where it can be are some situations where it can be are some situations where it can be dangerous but your body feels it's dangerous but your body feels it's dangerous but your body feels it's dangerous exactly but generally cold dangerous exactly but generally cold dangerous exactly but generally cold therapy cold immersion is relatively therapy cold immersion is relatively therapy cold immersion is relatively going to be safe there are some

08:00going to be safe there are some going to be safe there are some precautions that we'll get into a little precautions that we'll get into a little precautions that we'll get into a little bit later on bit later on bit later on um and I think that your work is really um and I think that your work is really um and I think that your work is really helping people understand that you know helping people understand that you know helping people understand that you know some of the fears that people have so so some of the fears that people have so so some of the fears that people have so so on one sense cold nobody wants to go out on one sense cold nobody wants to go out on one sense cold nobody wants to go out of their way to get cold but actually of their way to get cold but actually of their way to get cold but actually you adapt through practicing cold you adapt through practicing cold you adapt through practicing cold immersion and cold therapy you kind of immersion and cold therapy you kind of immersion and cold therapy you kind of start to look forward to it like that's start to look forward to it like that's start to look forward to it like that's where I feel right now right like I where I feel right now right like I where I feel right now right like I typically would do my cold immersion typically would do my cold immersion typically would do my cold immersion before I came here and I was running a before I came here and I was running a before I came here and I was running a little bit late so I didn't have the little bit late so I didn't have the little bit late so I didn't have the time to and I was like really missing it time to and I was like really missing it time to and I was like really missing it like I was really missing it before like I was really missing it before like I was really missing it before because it gets me so uh excited and because it gets me so uh excited and because it gets me so uh excited and it's awake before a podcast which these it's awake before a podcast which these it's awake before a podcast which these podcasts go you know two hours you know podcasts go you know two hours you know podcasts go you know two hours you know three hours so you need that energy to three hours so you need that energy to three hours so you need that energy to be there but on the flip side there's be there but on the flip side there's be there but on the flip side there's been press that's out there that is been press that's out there that is been press that's out there that is almost almost almost fear-mongering a little bit cold fear-mongering a little bit cold fear-mongering a little bit cold exposure right we'll talk about that exposure right we'll talk about that exposure right we'll talk about that later on but that people have overblown later on but that people have overblown later on but that people have overblown the the fears that come with cold the the fears that come with cold the the fears that come with cold exposure right as long as you're doing exposure right as long as you're doing exposure right as long as you're doing it safely

09:00it safely it safely you're not going to run into those you you're not going to run into those you you're not going to run into those you know those those concerns that people know those those concerns that people know those those concerns that people are worried about but but I'll get back are worried about but but I'll get back are worried about but but I'll get back to that in a second so you mentioned to that in a second so you mentioned to that in a second so you mentioned something that the first time you did something that the first time you did something that the first time you did cold exposure it was a very it was a cold exposure it was a very it was a cold exposure it was a very it was a shock for you and your book you're right shock for you and your book you're right shock for you and your book you're right you say if a popsicle like me can learn you say if a popsicle like me can learn you say if a popsicle like me can learn to Winter swim which is you know what to Winter swim which is you know what to Winter swim which is you know what you're also calling cold immersion you're also calling cold immersion you're also calling cold immersion anyone anyone can it's a question of anyone anyone can it's a question of anyone anyone can it's a question of mindset here you talk about being a mindset here you talk about being a mindset here you talk about being a popsicle I've also heard you in other popsicle I've also heard you in other popsicle I've also heard you in other interviews refer to yourself as being a interviews refer to yourself as being a interviews refer to yourself as being a little bit of a cold yeah so I'd little bit of a cold yeah so I'd little bit of a cold yeah so I'd like to talk about that before we get like to talk about that before we get like to talk about that before we get into the long-term benefits there are into the long-term benefits there are into the long-term benefits there are people that are listening and I wonder people that are listening and I wonder people that are listening and I wonder anecdotally sometimes it feels like I anecdotally sometimes it feels like I anecdotally sometimes it feels like I hear more from women but I'd love to get hear more from women but I'd love to get hear more from women but I'd love to get your thoughts on that your thoughts on that your thoughts on that um there are people that fear that feel um there are people that fear that feel um there are people that fear that feel cold is not for me I already feel so cold is not for me I already feel so cold is not for me I already feel so cold on a daily basis you know why am I cold on a daily basis you know why am I cold on a daily basis you know why am I going to go seek out cold what do you going to go seek out cold what do you going to go seek out cold what do you want to say to those individuals well I want to say to those individuals well I want to say to those individuals well I want to say that I think that I want to say that I think that I want to say that I think that I represent represent represent um most people afraid of the cold

10:00um most people afraid of the cold um most people afraid of the cold actually and we are very afraid of the actually and we are very afraid of the actually and we are very afraid of the cold in this Society at the Modern cold in this Society at the Modern cold in this Society at the Modern lifestyle as it is right now because lifestyle as it is right now because lifestyle as it is right now because we've been escaping the code for decades we've been escaping the code for decades we've been escaping the code for decades now and it has not been put forward as now and it has not been put forward as now and it has not been put forward as anything that we should seek out so if anything that we should seek out so if anything that we should seek out so if we go back to we go back to we go back to um my grandparents for example they um my grandparents for example they um my grandparents for example they slept in the cold in in their slept in the cold in in their slept in the cold in in their um in in in I think at 19 degrees was um in in in I think at 19 degrees was um in in in I think at 19 degrees was actually pretty cold and that's what actually pretty cold and that's what actually pretty cold and that's what they did and they told us to do this they did and they told us to do this they did and they told us to do this which is about 65 degrees 660 something which is about 65 degrees 660 something which is about 65 degrees 660 something around there yeah 66. 66 yeah okay great around there yeah 66. 66 yeah okay great around there yeah 66. 66 yeah okay great so um so um so um they told us to do this but they're kind they told us to do this but they're kind they told us to do this but they're kind of like that was already when I was a of like that was already when I was a of like that was already when I was a child I was listening to that and I was child I was listening to that and I was child I was listening to that and I was like oh that's really weird why should like oh that's really weird why should like oh that's really weird why should we do that they said they said they told we do that they said they said they told we do that they said they said they told me this is healthy this is healthy for me this is healthy this is healthy for me this is healthy this is healthy for you but they couldn't explain why so you but they couldn't explain why so you but they couldn't explain why so this kind of like died out a bit and our this kind of like died out a bit and our this kind of like died out a bit and our society gets more and more sedentary so society gets more and more sedentary so society gets more and more sedentary so the cold has been something that we the cold has been something that we the cold has been something that we forgot about forgot about forgot about um but I think that I just like anybody

11:00um but I think that I just like anybody um but I think that I just like anybody else like it very temperature neutral else like it very temperature neutral else like it very temperature neutral and when I started this research I was a and when I started this research I was a and when I started this research I was a cold as I already told him in cold as I already told him in cold as I already told him in another interview another interview another interview um so I I was pretty much like anybody um so I I was pretty much like anybody um so I I was pretty much like anybody else not wanting to go into the cold and else not wanting to go into the cold and else not wanting to go into the cold and why should I do that because it's just why should I do that because it's just why should I do that because it's just too cold but I found out during my own too cold but I found out during my own too cold but I found out during my own research Journey but also from having to research Journey but also from having to research Journey but also from having to try this out myself because I couldn't try this out myself because I couldn't try this out myself because I couldn't write a book and I couldn't do this write a book and I couldn't do this write a book and I couldn't do this research Without Really seeking this out research Without Really seeking this out research Without Really seeking this out in some way because you can you can read in some way because you can you can read in some way because you can you can read and you can you can try and understand and you can you can try and understand and you can you can try and understand what it means to go into the cold and what it means to go into the cold and what it means to go into the cold and and and feel and and try try to and and feel and and try try to and and feel and and try try to understand the feelings of this how does understand the feelings of this how does understand the feelings of this how does it feel on your body getting adapted to it feel on your body getting adapted to it feel on your body getting adapted to this but you don't understand it unless this but you don't understand it unless this but you don't understand it unless you try and what I realized was that um you try and what I realized was that um you try and what I realized was that um one thing it's it's it's healthy and one thing it's it's it's healthy and one thing it's it's it's healthy and it's not dangerous if you do it it's not dangerous if you do it it's not dangerous if you do it deliberately and that's one thing and I deliberately and that's one thing and I deliberately and that's one thing and I found out found out found out um that I actually get warmer and at the um that I actually get warmer and at the um that I actually get warmer and at the point where I started doing my cold point where I started doing my cold point where I started doing my cold emotions

12:00emotions emotions um this was not proven yet I I did that um this was not proven yet I I did that um this was not proven yet I I did that in my research a couple of years later in my research a couple of years later in my research a couple of years later but you found the mechanism yeah of what but you found the mechanism yeah of what but you found the mechanism yeah of what was going on behind the reason that you was going on behind the reason that you was going on behind the reason that you know regular cold exposure actually know regular cold exposure actually know regular cold exposure actually makes you warmer in the long term it makes you warmer in the long term it makes you warmer in the long term it makes it warmer in the long term and makes it warmer in the long term and makes it warmer in the long term and this has everything to do with your this has everything to do with your this has everything to do with your metabolism and what is called the metabolism and what is called the metabolism and what is called the healthy Brown fat and we can get back to healthy Brown fat and we can get back to healthy Brown fat and we can get back to that but that was my research area but that but that was my research area but that but that was my research area but what we saw or what I I felt was that what we saw or what I I felt was that what we saw or what I I felt was that for every time I went into the cold for every time I went into the cold for every time I went into the cold water I could easily I could faster water I could easily I could faster water I could easily I could faster heating myself up and I was at this time heating myself up and I was at this time heating myself up and I was at this time doing field research I called it because doing field research I called it because doing field research I called it because I spent a whole year just observing I spent a whole year just observing I spent a whole year just observing winter swimmers in Denmark on different winter swimmers in Denmark on different winter swimmers in Denmark on different Jetties or around the the country and I Jetties or around the the country and I Jetties or around the the country and I started doing this myself to see what started doing this myself to see what started doing this myself to see what happens because a researcher also needs happens because a researcher also needs happens because a researcher also needs to understand it on on her own body I to understand it on on her own body I to understand it on on her own body I thought so thought so thought so um but I felt that when I went home and um but I felt that when I went home and um but I felt that when I went home and I just kept moving that I could feel I just kept moving that I could feel I just kept moving that I could feel that I I was increasing my heat and the

13:00that I I was increasing my heat and the that I I was increasing my heat and the time when from going up from the cold time when from going up from the cold time when from going up from the cold water to reheating my body get um that water to reheating my body get um that water to reheating my body get um that window got just shorter and shorter and window got just shorter and shorter and window got just shorter and shorter and at certain time actually I was warm at certain time actually I was warm at certain time actually I was warm before I got home so I found out that before I got home so I found out that before I got home so I found out that this mechanism must have everything to this mechanism must have everything to this mechanism must have everything to do with my research area which is the do with my research area which is the do with my research area which is the brown fat so which is heating you up and brown fat so which is heating you up and brown fat so which is heating you up and I was just thinking oh God my breath fat I was just thinking oh God my breath fat I was just thinking oh God my breath fat is getting better increasing the heat is getting better increasing the heat is getting better increasing the heat right and that's a good thing for those right and that's a good thing for those right and that's a good thing for those listening Brown fat is a good thing listening Brown fat is a good thing listening Brown fat is a good thing we're going to break it down yeah we we're going to break it down yeah we we're going to break it down yeah we pulled up some nice images from your pulled up some nice images from your pulled up some nice images from your book which we'll get into a little bit book which we'll get into a little bit book which we'll get into a little bit later on and um but in addition to just later on and um but in addition to just later on and um but in addition to just becoming more resilient to the cold becoming more resilient to the cold becoming more resilient to the cold right which is one of the benefits of right which is one of the benefits of right which is one of the benefits of cold exposure there's actually an cold exposure there's actually an cold exposure there's actually an incredible laundry list of long-term incredible laundry list of long-term incredible laundry list of long-term benefits that are there and I'd love to benefits that are there and I'd love to benefits that are there and I'd love to start off by talking about some of those start off by talking about some of those start off by talking about some of those because I've found especially for my because I've found especially for my because I've found especially for my audience is that when you talk about the

14:00audience is that when you talk about the audience is that when you talk about the benefits and what's possible and how we benefits and what's possible and how we benefits and what's possible and how we can improve our life that makes us more can improve our life that makes us more can improve our life that makes us more excited to actually want to do the excited to actually want to do the excited to actually want to do the protocols and integrate them uh into our protocols and integrate them uh into our protocols and integrate them uh into our our routines so can we talk a little bit our routines so can we talk a little bit our routines so can we talk a little bit about you talked about some of the about you talked about some of the about you talked about some of the short-term benefits and immediate sort short-term benefits and immediate sort short-term benefits and immediate sort of improvement in mood the dopamine uh of improvement in mood the dopamine uh of improvement in mood the dopamine uh hit that you get which also doesn't lead hit that you get which also doesn't lead hit that you get which also doesn't lead to an immediate dopamine crash it's sort to an immediate dopamine crash it's sort to an immediate dopamine crash it's sort of a long gentle sort of slowdown of of a long gentle sort of slowdown of of a long gentle sort of slowdown of dopamine which is exactly what we want dopamine which is exactly what we want dopamine which is exactly what we want you know from shopping from social media you know from shopping from social media you know from shopping from social media we get these quick dopamine hits and we get these quick dopamine hits and we get these quick dopamine hits and they go away and we get a dopamine crash they go away and we get a dopamine crash they go away and we get a dopamine crash yeah and we want to type we want to yeah and we want to type we want to yeah and we want to type we want to avoid those type of dopamine releases we avoid those type of dopamine releases we avoid those type of dopamine releases we want more of the dopamine release that want more of the dopamine release that want more of the dopamine release that comes with cold exposure so let's talk comes with cold exposure so let's talk comes with cold exposure so let's talk about some of the long-term benefits can about some of the long-term benefits can about some of the long-term benefits can you chat about that yeah so some of the you chat about that yeah so some of the you chat about that yeah so some of the long-term benefits so long-term benefits so long-term benefits so um um um I would think I would just like to start I would think I would just like to start I would think I would just like to start with my own research because that is with my own research because that is with my own research because that is like that was yeah let's do it it's it's like that was yeah let's do it it's it's like that was yeah let's do it it's it's in in adapted winter swimmers so I in in adapted winter swimmers so I in in adapted winter swimmers so I recruited winter swimmers who were

15:00recruited winter swimmers who were recruited winter swimmers who were um have been winter swearing for two to um have been winter swearing for two to um have been winter swearing for two to three seasons so I wanted to study those three seasons so I wanted to study those three seasons so I wanted to study those because I wanted to see what happens because I wanted to see what happens because I wanted to see what happens um when you have done this for a while um when you have done this for a while um when you have done this for a while and this this was also kind of like a and this this was also kind of like a and this this was also kind of like a proof of concept study because there was proof of concept study because there was proof of concept study because there was no other studies about this brown fat no other studies about this brown fat no other studies about this brown fat and and how do how do we increase our uh and and how do how do we increase our uh and and how do how do we increase our uh calorie burning in our body and the calorie burning in our body and the calorie burning in our body and the metabolism so there was we needed this metabolism so there was we needed this metabolism so there was we needed this kind of study where we just kind of study where we just kind of study where we just um explored those who have been doing um explored those who have been doing um explored those who have been doing this for a while so we could look at the this for a while so we could look at the this for a while so we could look at the long-term benefits does it really matter long-term benefits does it really matter long-term benefits does it really matter on the long term and what we found was on the long term and what we found was on the long term and what we found was that winter swimmers who have been doing that winter swimmers who have been doing that winter swimmers who have been doing winter swimming for a couple of years so winter swimming for a couple of years so winter swimming for a couple of years so two three seasons they have an increased two three seasons they have an increased two three seasons they have an increased uh Brown fat activity meaning that they uh Brown fat activity meaning that they uh Brown fat activity meaning that they can burn fat and sugar from the can burn fat and sugar from the can burn fat and sugar from the bloodstream faster than the control bloodstream faster than the control bloodstream faster than the control group we saw that 11 minutes per week group we saw that 11 minutes per week group we saw that 11 minutes per week was actually enough so I also seeked out was actually enough so I also seeked out was actually enough so I also seeked out to see if I could find the lowest to see if I could find the lowest to see if I could find the lowest threshold because that's the minimum threshold because that's the minimum threshold because that's the minimum viable dose yes 11 minutes a week yeah

16:00viable dose yes 11 minutes a week yeah viable dose yes 11 minutes a week yeah for those are listening and that can for those are listening and that can for those are listening and that can either come from you know either come from you know either come from you know one longer session but also but usually one longer session but also but usually one longer session but also but usually it's typically multiple smaller sessions it's typically multiple smaller sessions it's typically multiple smaller sessions yeah I would say smaller colder you can yeah I would say smaller colder you can yeah I would say smaller colder you can only stay in there a little bit longer only stay in there a little bit longer only stay in there a little bit longer yeah but we'll break that whole protocol yeah but we'll break that whole protocol yeah but we'll break that whole protocol down let's do this a little bit later on down let's do this a little bit later on down let's do this a little bit later on yeah but what we saw was that um that yeah but what we saw was that um that yeah but what we saw was that um that they also had an increased insulin they also had an increased insulin they also had an increased insulin sensitivity and that they get rid of the sensitivity and that they get rid of the sensitivity and that they get rid of the sugar faster in the bloodstream so they sugar faster in the bloodstream so they sugar faster in the bloodstream so they have an increased metabolism they had a have an increased metabolism they had a have an increased metabolism they had a lower blood blood pressure but this is lower blood blood pressure but this is lower blood blood pressure but this is not only shown in my studies this has not only shown in my studies this has not only shown in my studies this has been shown in multiple studies in Winter been shown in multiple studies in Winter been shown in multiple studies in Winter swimmers cold water immersion studies uh swimmers cold water immersion studies uh swimmers cold water immersion studies uh that on the long term after actually that on the long term after actually that on the long term after actually just one winter swimming season you just one winter swimming season you just one winter swimming season you would have a lower would have a lower would have a lower um blood pressure and lower heart rate um blood pressure and lower heart rate um blood pressure and lower heart rate at Baseline so this really shows that at Baseline so this really shows that at Baseline so this really shows that these are these are really good outcomes these are these are really good outcomes these are these are really good outcomes to measure on the long-term benefits to measure on the long-term benefits to measure on the long-term benefits because a lower blood pressure means because a lower blood pressure means because a lower blood pressure means that you have less inflammation and this that you have less inflammation and this that you have less inflammation and this is like come down to the root cause of

17:00is like come down to the root cause of is like come down to the root cause of like all our modern lifestyle diseases like all our modern lifestyle diseases like all our modern lifestyle diseases so if we can lower for our inflammation so if we can lower for our inflammation so if we can lower for our inflammation in the body then we have like a good in the body then we have like a good in the body then we have like a good recipe to actually decrease and prevent recipe to actually decrease and prevent recipe to actually decrease and prevent lifestyle diseases so that is really lifestyle diseases so that is really lifestyle diseases so that is really what I wanted to do in my studies but what I wanted to do in my studies but what I wanted to do in my studies but that is also like what other Studies that is also like what other Studies that is also like what other Studies have found so this all together really have found so this all together really have found so this all together really shows that we can decrease inflammation shows that we can decrease inflammation shows that we can decrease inflammation and we can decrease stress in our body and we can decrease stress in our body and we can decrease stress in our body and I think if we can do that then this and I think if we can do that then this and I think if we can do that then this has a really potential for for human has a really potential for for human has a really potential for for human health in the future yeah it's it's so health in the future yeah it's it's so health in the future yeah it's it's so exciting and all the markers that you exciting and all the markers that you exciting and all the markers that you guys measured inside of the study we'll guys measured inside of the study we'll guys measured inside of the study we'll get into a little bit of the background get into a little bit of the background get into a little bit of the background of like how that study came together and of like how that study came together and of like how that study came together and you know you're you had a mentor that you know you're you had a mentor that you know you're you had a mentor that was involved in kind of an advisor who was involved in kind of an advisor who was involved in kind of an advisor who was steering you in that direction we'll was steering you in that direction we'll was steering you in that direction we'll talk more about that but before we go talk more about that but before we go talk more about that but before we go there I wanna there I wanna there I wanna jump into a little bit of a time machine jump into a little bit of a time machine jump into a little bit of a time machine and kind of go back in time because and kind of go back in time because and kind of go back in time because evolutionarily like our our ancestors evolutionarily like our our ancestors evolutionarily like our our ancestors even like in recent history they knew

18:00even like in recent history they knew even like in recent history they knew the power of cold immersion and that's a the power of cold immersion and that's a the power of cold immersion and that's a big thing that I got from your book uh big thing that I got from your book uh big thing that I got from your book uh is going down that history so talk to us is going down that history so talk to us is going down that history so talk to us a little bit about that history what did a little bit about that history what did a little bit about that history what did Samara ancestors including Socrates the Samara ancestors including Socrates the Samara ancestors including Socrates the father of modern medicine well not father of modern medicine well not father of modern medicine well not modern medicine but medicine Ancient modern medicine but medicine Ancient modern medicine but medicine Ancient Ancient medicine you know what were they Ancient medicine you know what were they Ancient medicine you know what were they saying about cold exposure saying about cold exposure saying about cold exposure yeah so I I really think that that was yeah so I I really think that that was yeah so I I really think that that was at an area I needed to go down that path at an area I needed to go down that path at an area I needed to go down that path to understand what actually happened why to understand what actually happened why to understand what actually happened why are we so afraid of the code today so are we so afraid of the code today so are we so afraid of the code today so with that question it kind of led me with that question it kind of led me with that question it kind of led me down the road to see what happened what down the road to see what happened what down the road to see what happened what why did we stop exposing ourselves to why did we stop exposing ourselves to why did we stop exposing ourselves to the code and that led me down the road the code and that led me down the road the code and that led me down the road to our ancient philosophers of Socrates to our ancient philosophers of Socrates to our ancient philosophers of Socrates and hippocratus which um showed that and hippocratus which um showed that and hippocratus which um showed that back then they had this you can call it back then they had this you can call it back then they had this you can call it maybe an intuition to what what is maybe an intuition to what what is maybe an intuition to what what is actually healthy for our body regarding actually healthy for our body regarding actually healthy for our body regarding the cold and the heat but they said that the cold and the heat but they said that the cold and the heat but they said that going into the code but also heat so going into the code but also heat so going into the code but also heat so cold water and warm water

19:00cold water and warm water cold water and warm water um actually increased our body fluid in um actually increased our body fluid in um actually increased our body fluid in our body so that is what we know today our body so that is what we know today our body so that is what we know today is from a increased circulation in our is from a increased circulation in our is from a increased circulation in our body the ability to dilate and and body the ability to dilate and and body the ability to dilate and and constrict our blood vessels which you constrict our blood vessels which you constrict our blood vessels which you you get from you get from you get from um an increase in in in endothelial um an increase in in in endothelial um an increase in in in endothelial cells in in our blood vessels so we cells in in our blood vessels so we cells in in our blood vessels so we today we can explain what actually today we can explain what actually today we can explain what actually happened it happens in our body what happened it happens in our body what happened it happens in our body what they back then intuitively said what was they back then intuitively said what was they back then intuitively said what was healthy is today now proven with science healthy is today now proven with science healthy is today now proven with science and and we of course of course need more and and we of course of course need more and and we of course of course need more proofs but we we do have enough today to proofs but we we do have enough today to proofs but we we do have enough today to say well it's actually something that is say well it's actually something that is say well it's actually something that is healthy for our body to go into the cold healthy for our body to go into the cold healthy for our body to go into the cold and the Heat and this is what um the and the Heat and this is what um the and the Heat and this is what um the time was called the thermalism time that time was called the thermalism time that time was called the thermalism time that is why my new book is called thermalist is why my new book is called thermalist is why my new book is called thermalist um and they said that everybody should um and they said that everybody should um and they said that everybody should do this and they did so whole societies do this and they did so whole societies do this and they did so whole societies you can see that from Modern you can see that from Modern you can see that from Modern um civilization they built these cities um civilization they built these cities um civilization they built these cities around a water so around lakes and by

20:00around a water so around lakes and by around a water so around lakes and by the Sea and that is to expose themselves the Sea and that is to expose themselves the Sea and that is to expose themselves also to to to water just in general and also to to to water just in general and also to to to water just in general and it also goes way back to our Egyptian it also goes way back to our Egyptian it also goes way back to our Egyptian times where we can see that there are times where we can see that there are times where we can see that there are hieroglyphs showing swimming so this is hieroglyphs showing swimming so this is hieroglyphs showing swimming so this is really something that has been practiced really something that has been practiced really something that has been practiced um yeah throughout times but because of um yeah throughout times but because of um yeah throughout times but because of like like like [Music] [Music] [Music] um um um Wars and and also accidents with the um Wars and and also accidents with the um Wars and and also accidents with the Titanic and that actually gave a little Titanic and that actually gave a little Titanic and that actually gave a little bit of a dark shadow over of a cold bit of a dark shadow over of a cold bit of a dark shadow over of a cold exposure because we then realized that exposure because we then realized that exposure because we then realized that oh cold water is actually something that oh cold water is actually something that oh cold water is actually something that could could could um also be dangerous for us and because um also be dangerous for us and because um also be dangerous for us and because of the Titanic and also because of World of the Titanic and also because of World of the Titanic and also because of World War II War II War II um and some human experiments that were um and some human experiments that were um and some human experiments that were performed in in Germany in daco we kind performed in in Germany in daco we kind performed in in Germany in daco we kind of like had this dark shadow over cold of like had this dark shadow over cold of like had this dark shadow over cold exposure and research kind of stopped in exposure and research kind of stopped in exposure and research kind of stopped in this because this because this because um it was probably so popular to do this um it was probably so popular to do this um it was probably so popular to do this kind of research at this time so people kind of research at this time so people kind of research at this time so people started saying that oh cold water is

21:00started saying that oh cold water is started saying that oh cold water is dangerous and you can die if you fall dangerous and you can die if you fall dangerous and you can die if you fall into cold water which is also true but into cold water which is also true but into cold water which is also true but if you do it deliberately which they if you do it deliberately which they if you do it deliberately which they said back in the thermalism time as said back in the thermalism time as said back in the thermalism time as sokotism hypocotes then it's something sokotism hypocotes then it's something sokotism hypocotes then it's something completely different so I'm glad that we completely different so I'm glad that we completely different so I'm glad that we picked it up by around yeah 1970s we picked it up by around yeah 1970s we picked it up by around yeah 1970s we started doing research in this again and started doing research in this again and started doing research in this again and here we are 50 years later here we are here we are 50 years later here we are here we are 50 years later here we are 50 years later and we we're chatting a 50 years later and we we're chatting a 50 years later and we we're chatting a little bit before the podcast started little bit before the podcast started little bit before the podcast started and you know cold exposure and all the and you know cold exposure and all the and you know cold exposure and all the benefits that come along with it that benefits that come along with it that benefits that come along with it that you've highlighted in your research and you've highlighted in your research and you've highlighted in your research and then we'll also talk about hot exposure then we'll also talk about hot exposure then we'll also talk about hot exposure and especially sauna and there's even a and especially sauna and there's even a and especially sauna and there's even a ton more benefits that are there that ton more benefits that are there that ton more benefits that are there that have been documented because there's have been documented because there's have been documented because there's bigger studies and and things that are bigger studies and and things that are bigger studies and and things that are there but very similar Pathways in the there but very similar Pathways in the there but very similar Pathways in the body that they activate they're all part body that they activate they're all part body that they activate they're all part of this growing trend of people looking of this growing trend of people looking of this growing trend of people looking for low-cost low-cost Solutions for low-cost low-cost Solutions for low-cost low-cost Solutions um to start to improve their health and um to start to improve their health and um to start to improve their health and also this growing trend of people also this growing trend of people also this growing trend of people realizing we've sat too much we're in realizing we've sat too much we're in realizing we've sat too much we're in front of the computer screen too much

22:00front of the computer screen too much front of the computer screen too much we're indoors too much and all this is we're indoors too much and all this is we're indoors too much and all this is making us sick as a society and Going making us sick as a society and Going making us sick as a society and Going Back To Nature a little bit not in a Back To Nature a little bit not in a Back To Nature a little bit not in a romanticized way nobody's out here romanticized way nobody's out here romanticized way nobody's out here advocating that we all need to move back advocating that we all need to move back advocating that we all need to move back into the woods and you know fetch our into the woods and you know fetch our into the woods and you know fetch our own you know water and cut our trees own you know water and cut our trees own you know water and cut our trees down although I'm sure some people would down although I'm sure some people would down although I'm sure some people would like that it's more to make sure that we like that it's more to make sure that we like that it's more to make sure that we don't so far remove ourselves from don't so far remove ourselves from don't so far remove ourselves from nature that our body we which is based nature that our body we which is based nature that our body we which is based on millions of years of evolution it on millions of years of evolution it on millions of years of evolution it needs those reminders to activate the needs those reminders to activate the needs those reminders to activate the activate the pathways it has inside and activate the pathways it has inside and activate the pathways it has inside and activate our circadian rhythm as well activate our circadian rhythm as well activate our circadian rhythm as well too too too um um I kind of want to ask you a little bit I kind of want to ask you a little bit I kind of want to ask you a little bit more about that you talked a little bit more about that you talked a little bit more about that you talked a little bit about that in the beginning this drive about that in the beginning this drive about that in the beginning this drive in our society for comfort and this in our society for comfort and this in our society for comfort and this drive in our society to not be broken drive in our society to not be broken drive in our society to not be broken out too much of the equilibrium and out too much of the equilibrium and out too much of the equilibrium and you know how much damage that's doing to you know how much damage that's doing to you know how much damage that's doing to us and also the younger generation of us and also the younger generation of

23:00us and also the younger generation of kids that are growing into it even to kids that are growing into it even to kids that are growing into it even to the degree that I find that parents are the degree that I find that parents are the degree that I find that parents are so worried about their kids who actually so worried about their kids who actually so worried about their kids who actually have a little bit more Brown fat have a little bit more Brown fat have a little bit more Brown fat naturally yeah going out into the cold naturally yeah going out into the cold naturally yeah going out into the cold because they they'll tell you don't go because they they'll tell you don't go because they they'll tell you don't go on the cold you're going to get sick I'm on the cold you're going to get sick I'm on the cold you're going to get sick I'm sure you've heard that before maybe a sure you've heard that before maybe a sure you've heard that before maybe a little bit less so in Denmark is that little bit less so in Denmark is that little bit less so in Denmark is that less of a thing in Denmark people a less of a thing in Denmark people a less of a thing in Denmark people a little bit more open to the cold over little bit more open to the cold over little bit more open to the cold over there I think so yes yeah but in the U.S there I think so yes yeah but in the U.S there I think so yes yeah but in the U.S I know for sure there's this trend of I know for sure there's this trend of I know for sure there's this trend of like don't get too cold don't do you like don't get too cold don't do you like don't get too cold don't do you know don't do anything that's dangerous know don't do anything that's dangerous know don't do anything that's dangerous for you right and we kind of need to for you right and we kind of need to for you right and we kind of need to get back to these hormetic responses in get back to these hormetic responses in get back to these hormetic responses in our body to get back some of the some of our body to get back some of the some of our body to get back some of the some of the benefits do you think that this is the benefits do you think that this is the benefits do you think that this is just a byproduct of just a byproduct of just a byproduct of industrialization and when we started industrialization and when we started industrialization and when we started being able to like have the heating of being able to like have the heating of being able to like have the heating of homes and the AC of homes we just kind homes and the AC of homes we just kind homes and the AC of homes we just kind of got used to it because our cells are of got used to it because our cells are of got used to it because our cells are inherently a little lazy do you think inherently a little lazy do you think inherently a little lazy do you think that's where it came from yeah I really that's where it came from yeah I really

24:00that's where it came from yeah I really think that's that is there is some truth think that's that is there is some truth think that's that is there is some truth in that I think that as I just touched in that I think that as I just touched in that I think that as I just touched upon before that upon before that upon before that we kind of forgot what we need the cold we kind of forgot what we need the cold we kind of forgot what we need the cold and and the heat for I mean extreme and and the heat for I mean extreme and and the heat for I mean extreme temperatures has been practiced so much temperatures has been practiced so much temperatures has been practiced so much before our modern society so the last 50 before our modern society so the last 50 before our modern society so the last 50 years we have kind of like forgotten years we have kind of like forgotten years we have kind of like forgotten about it and also research has not been about it and also research has not been about it and also research has not been really focused on the healthy stress really focused on the healthy stress really focused on the healthy stress which you just mentioned the Hermetic which you just mentioned the Hermetic which you just mentioned the Hermetic stress so after World War II we started stress so after World War II we started stress so after World War II we started researching a lot in in the chronic researching a lot in in the chronic researching a lot in in the chronic stress so the bad stress and when you stress so the bad stress and when you stress so the bad stress and when you tell people uh if you say the word tell people uh if you say the word tell people uh if you say the word stress to people and people will be like stress to people and people will be like stress to people and people will be like oh that's something really bad so um oh that's something really bad so um oh that's something really bad so um it's kind of like like it's not people's it's kind of like like it's not people's it's kind of like like it's not people's fault that we don't know the good stress fault that we don't know the good stress fault that we don't know the good stress as well but stress is not necessarily as well but stress is not necessarily as well but stress is not necessarily something bad it's just how how what something bad it's just how how what something bad it's just how how what kind of stress you are exposed to right kind of stress you are exposed to right kind of stress you are exposed to right and what you let yourself be exposed to and what you let yourself be exposed to and what you let yourself be exposed to so the chronic stress is something that

25:00so the chronic stress is something that so the chronic stress is something that research has been very focused on for research has been very focused on for research has been very focused on for many years and and and and and this is many years and and and and and this is many years and and and and and this is the reason why we have the modern the reason why we have the modern the reason why we have the modern lifestyle diseases but we have not been lifestyle diseases but we have not been lifestyle diseases but we have not been focused on how can the healthy stress focused on how can the healthy stress focused on how can the healthy stress the Hermetic stress help us with the the Hermetic stress help us with the the Hermetic stress help us with the chronic stress so that is kind of like chronic stress so that is kind of like chronic stress so that is kind of like the the Science World not being too the the Science World not being too the the Science World not being too focused on that since after World War II focused on that since after World War II focused on that since after World War II so um I think that it's it's good that so um I think that it's it's good that so um I think that it's it's good that we do that now and we have more Focus we do that now and we have more Focus we do that now and we have more Focus now there's a trend growing in this now there's a trend growing in this now there's a trend growing in this definitely because that can keep us definitely because that can keep us definitely because that can keep us healthy and that it is a low-cost way of healthy and that it is a low-cost way of healthy and that it is a low-cost way of repairing us ourselves in our body which repairing us ourselves in our body which repairing us ourselves in our body which will then decrease the risk of chronic will then decrease the risk of chronic will then decrease the risk of chronic diseases diseases diseases um like type 2 diabetes but also mental um like type 2 diabetes but also mental um like type 2 diabetes but also mental neurological diseases as depression neurological diseases as depression neurological diseases as depression which we know today has everything to do which we know today has everything to do which we know today has everything to do with inflammation as the root cause so with inflammation as the root cause so with inflammation as the root cause so if we can in this modern society learn if we can in this modern society learn if we can in this modern society learn to understand that to understand that to understand that um that um healthy stress is something um that um healthy stress is something um that um healthy stress is something that you can use and go into nature not that you can use and go into nature not that you can use and go into nature not in a romantic way as you said it's not

26:00in a romantic way as you said it's not in a romantic way as you said it's not like that but we can take parts that we like that but we can take parts that we like that but we can take parts that we know is going to work for our benefit know is going to work for our benefit know is going to work for our benefit and that will keep or help our body get and that will keep or help our body get and that will keep or help our body get into a balance so homeostasis is our into a balance so homeostasis is our into a balance so homeostasis is our body's cells wanting to get into this body's cells wanting to get into this body's cells wanting to get into this balance so our body is constantly trying balance so our body is constantly trying balance so our body is constantly trying to get into a balance it is fighting to get into a balance it is fighting to get into a balance it is fighting this can we please get into balance and this can we please get into balance and this can we please get into balance and all our cells are calling for this all our cells are calling for this all our cells are calling for this that's why we feel bad sometimes that's that's why we feel bad sometimes that's that's why we feel bad sometimes that's why we feel sleepy sometimes because we why we feel sleepy sometimes because we why we feel sleepy sometimes because we need more sleep or we need we need more need more sleep or we need we need more need more sleep or we need we need more exercise but our cells and our body our exercise but our cells and our body our exercise but our cells and our body our fat cells are calling for fat cells are calling for fat cells are calling for um for rest because if you look back way um for rest because if you look back way um for rest because if you look back way back when we were living in nature we back when we were living in nature we back when we were living in nature we didn't have our houses to sit and and didn't have our houses to sit and and didn't have our houses to sit and and get thermal neutral in and relax then get thermal neutral in and relax then get thermal neutral in and relax then our body was always our body was always our body was always um you can say um um you can say um um you can say um then you can say our body was always then you can say our body was always then you can say our body was always trying to rescue ourselves and we were trying to rescue ourselves and we were trying to rescue ourselves and we were always in the fight and flight a mode

27:00always in the fight and flight a mode always in the fight and flight a mode but probably a lot of the times but probably a lot of the times but probably a lot of the times um um but we needed we needed back them to but we needed we needed back them to but we needed we needed back them to rest also but we probably today are rest also but we probably today are rest also but we probably today are resting too much and so we need to learn resting too much and so we need to learn resting too much and so we need to learn how to to get back to that stage where how to to get back to that stage where how to to get back to that stage where we can we can we can um yeah increase our healthy stress in um yeah increase our healthy stress in um yeah increase our healthy stress in ourselves and repair ourselves so it ourselves and repair ourselves so it ourselves and repair ourselves so it will get into balance again so our body will get into balance again so our body will get into balance again so our body is trying to tell us something that is is trying to tell us something that is is trying to tell us something that is why we get sick that is why we get this why we get sick that is why we get this why we get sick that is why we get this inflammatory diseases down the road so inflammatory diseases down the road so inflammatory diseases down the road so um yeah I definitely think that healthy um yeah I definitely think that healthy um yeah I definitely think that healthy stress is the way forward to help people stress is the way forward to help people stress is the way forward to help people in a natural way in a natural way in a natural way that's well said you know I want to go that's well said you know I want to go that's well said you know I want to go back to something we said before because back to something we said before because back to something we said before because most of my audience I would say probably most of my audience I would say probably most of my audience I would say probably a little bit over half is is uh women a little bit over half is is uh women a little bit over half is is uh women that listen to this podcast and so is that listen to this podcast and so is that listen to this podcast and so is there any truth to the idea that women there any truth to the idea that women there any truth to the idea that women prefer not to get cold more than men is prefer not to get cold more than men is prefer not to get cold more than men is there is there anything in that or is there is there anything in that or is there is there anything in that or is that just that just that just something anecdotally people pick up something anecdotally people pick up something anecdotally people pick up because I do hear from a lot when we've because I do hear from a lot when we've because I do hear from a lot when we've done other episodes with guests I've

28:00done other episodes with guests I've done other episodes with guests I've heard more from my female audience heard more from my female audience heard more from my female audience saying that I in particular have a hard saying that I in particular have a hard saying that I in particular have a hard time and my wife shares with me she time and my wife shares with me she time and my wife shares with me she doesn't like to get cold uh as much but doesn't like to get cold uh as much but doesn't like to get cold uh as much but is there any truth to that is there any truth to that is there any truth to that scientifically or is there not scientifically or is there not scientifically or is there not so I think that is really good question so I think that is really good question so I think that is really good question because I think there's two sides to because I think there's two sides to because I think there's two sides to this so one one thing you are you are this so one one thing you are you are this so one one thing you are you are addressing here is that women do feel addressing here is that women do feel addressing here is that women do feel colder uh faster than men or at a lower colder uh faster than men or at a lower colder uh faster than men or at a lower degree so they they are also colder so degree so they they are also colder so degree so they they are also colder so science science show US studies show science science show US studies show science science show US studies show that women have colder hands colder ears that women have colder hands colder ears that women have colder hands colder ears and also they're just colder in on their and also they're just colder in on their and also they're just colder in on their feet for example feet for example feet for example um and that is something that we can um and that is something that we can um and that is something that we can explain because women have less muscle explain because women have less muscle explain because women have less muscle mass to keep them warm so what keeps us mass to keep them warm so what keeps us mass to keep them warm so what keeps us warm in our body is two kind of tissues warm in our body is two kind of tissues warm in our body is two kind of tissues that is firstly the brown fat which is that is firstly the brown fat which is that is firstly the brown fat which is always on a regulating state where it always on a regulating state where it always on a regulating state where it tries to regulate your your body tries to regulate your your body tries to regulate your your body temperature from the inside is our inner

29:00temperature from the inside is our inner temperature from the inside is our inner radiator you can say what the brain is radiator you can say what the brain is radiator you can say what the brain is the thermostat thermostat you can say the thermostat thermostat you can say the thermostat thermostat you can say and the muscles is the second tissue and the muscles is the second tissue and the muscles is the second tissue which is keeping us warm so but we have which is keeping us warm so but we have which is keeping us warm so but we have less muscle mass than men have so they less muscle mass than men have so they less muscle mass than men have so they are warmer just in general and and they are warmer just in general and and they are warmer just in general and and they are what we call a thermal comfortable are what we call a thermal comfortable are what we call a thermal comfortable or thermal not thermal neutral thermal or thermal not thermal neutral thermal or thermal not thermal neutral thermal comfortable I would say at 24 degrees comfortable I would say at 24 degrees comfortable I would say at 24 degrees Celsius Celsius Celsius um which is in Fahrenheit I'm just gonna um which is in Fahrenheit I'm just gonna um which is in Fahrenheit I'm just gonna two seconds okay so 20 24 degrees two seconds okay so 20 24 degrees two seconds okay so 20 24 degrees Celsius is thermal comfortable for men Celsius is thermal comfortable for men Celsius is thermal comfortable for men and 22 degrees Celsius is what and 22 degrees Celsius is what and 22 degrees Celsius is what scientifically is proven to be scientifically is proven to be scientifically is proven to be um thermal comfortable for for women so um thermal comfortable for for women so um thermal comfortable for for women so 24 degrees Celsius for men that is 75 24 degrees Celsius for men that is 75 24 degrees Celsius for men that is 75 degrees Fahrenheit and 22 degrees for degrees Fahrenheit and 22 degrees for degrees Fahrenheit and 22 degrees for women is 71. so women do get easily cold women is 71. so women do get easily cold women is 71. so women do get easily cold than men so they easily freeze and than men so they easily freeze and than men so they easily freeze and that's why they say I'm cold and men that's why they say I'm cold and men that's why they say I'm cold and men don't say that and they try to turn the

30:00don't say that and they try to turn the don't say that and they try to turn the heater down at home and the women are heater down at home and the women are heater down at home and the women are trying to turn the heater up and this is trying to turn the heater up and this is trying to turn the heater up and this is the explanation behind that but I also the explanation behind that but I also the explanation behind that but I also think that there is another question and think that there is another question and think that there is another question and what you you just said before so I think what you you just said before so I think what you you just said before so I think that that that my observation I can only call this an my observation I can only call this an my observation I can only call this an observation but because there I don't observation but because there I don't observation but because there I don't think there's any studies on this but think there's any studies on this but think there's any studies on this but women women women I think women are doing more deliberate I think women are doing more deliberate I think women are doing more deliberate code exposure code exposure code exposure um than menar I think that they are more um than menar I think that they are more um than menar I think that they are more interested in this and that is probably interested in this and that is probably interested in this and that is probably because they also are cold and they find because they also are cold and they find because they also are cold and they find out that they get warmer from going into out that they get warmer from going into out that they get warmer from going into the cold I at least did so I would say I the cold I at least did so I would say I the cold I at least did so I would say I would just keep going just to keep would just keep going just to keep would just keep going just to keep myself warm and I get my brown fat going myself warm and I get my brown fat going myself warm and I get my brown fat going and and having a everyday life feeling and and having a everyday life feeling and and having a everyday life feeling warmer is definitely something that I warmer is definitely something that I warmer is definitely something that I can use also it makes me less consider can use also it makes me less consider can use also it makes me less consider also going outside and use the nature also going outside and use the nature also going outside and use the nature and I don't think much about am I cold I and I don't think much about am I cold I and I don't think much about am I cold I am I hot as I did yeah years ago and so

31:00am I hot as I did yeah years ago and so am I hot as I did yeah years ago and so I think that women are actually seeking I think that women are actually seeking I think that women are actually seeking this but they are generally from nature this but they are generally from nature this but they are generally from nature um colder that's a great explanation um colder that's a great explanation um colder that's a great explanation thank you for that you mentioned Brown thank you for that you mentioned Brown thank you for that you mentioned Brown fat I think this is a good opportunity fat I think this is a good opportunity fat I think this is a good opportunity to talk a little bit more in depth about to talk a little bit more in depth about to talk a little bit more in depth about Brown fat and white fat you have this Brown fat and white fat you have this Brown fat and white fat you have this great image in your book that I've put great image in your book that I've put great image in your book that I've put up on the screen here and if it's okay up on the screen here and if it's okay up on the screen here and if it's okay we can show the audience on YouTube and we can show the audience on YouTube and we can show the audience on YouTube and if you're watching the podcast you know if you're watching the podcast you know if you're watching the podcast you know you can go on YouTube you can check it you can go on YouTube you can check it you can go on YouTube you can check it out or we'll provide a link inside of out or we'll provide a link inside of out or we'll provide a link inside of there or just pick up a copy of the book there or just pick up a copy of the book there or just pick up a copy of the book winter swimming we have the link in the winter swimming we have the link in the winter swimming we have the link in the show notes and you can find all of that show notes and you can find all of that show notes and you can find all of that and other great storytelling and the and other great storytelling and the and other great storytelling and the behind the scenes of how uh you came up behind the scenes of how uh you came up behind the scenes of how uh you came up with your research what you found etc with your research what you found etc with your research what you found etc etc so let's assume out big picture many etc so let's assume out big picture many etc so let's assume out big picture many people actually don't know that there's people actually don't know that there's people actually don't know that there's different types of fats in our body different types of fats in our body different types of fats in our body there's the white fat the brown fat but there's the white fat the brown fat but there's the white fat the brown fat but there's also the beige fat which you there's also the beige fat which you there's also the beige fat which you talk about a little bit The Beijing of talk about a little bit The Beijing of talk about a little bit The Beijing of fat which we'll mention and tell us the fat which we'll mention and tell us the fat which we'll mention and tell us the role of these different fats inside of role of these different fats inside of role of these different fats inside of the body so the fat that people the body so the fat that people the body so the fat that people typically look at or see that they have typically look at or see that they have

32:00typically look at or see that they have a little bit of extra fat on their a little bit of extra fat on their a little bit of extra fat on their stomach what are they noticing there and stomach what are they noticing there and stomach what are they noticing there and what type of fat is that what type of fat is that what type of fat is that so that is the white fat the white fat so that is the white fat the white fat so that is the white fat the white fat is what we have on our stomach and our is what we have on our stomach and our is what we have on our stomach and our thighs and often we have too much of it thighs and often we have too much of it thighs and often we have too much of it you know modern lifestyle we do we are you know modern lifestyle we do we are you know modern lifestyle we do we are too sedentary so these cells they grow too sedentary so these cells they grow too sedentary so these cells they grow they get bigger so we we get obese and they get bigger so we we get obese and they get bigger so we we get obese and this kind of fat we want to get um rid this kind of fat we want to get um rid this kind of fat we want to get um rid of we just we just want to get less of of we just we just want to get less of of we just we just want to get less of it at least we need some because this is it at least we need some because this is it at least we need some because this is our energy storage our energy storage our energy storage um also so it's kind of it provides US um also so it's kind of it provides US um also so it's kind of it provides US Energy when we are not eating so of Energy when we are not eating so of Energy when we are not eating so of course we need a little storage of white course we need a little storage of white course we need a little storage of white fat so um white fat is the fat so um white fat is the fat so um white fat is the um energy storing capacity in our our um energy storing capacity in our our um energy storing capacity in our our body and the brown fat is quite opposite body and the brown fat is quite opposite body and the brown fat is quite opposite that is our that is our that is our um our our Brown fat is our healthy kind um our our Brown fat is our healthy kind um our our Brown fat is our healthy kind of fat that is increasing our metabolism of fat that is increasing our metabolism of fat that is increasing our metabolism so that is so that is so that is um increasing the the calorie burning of um increasing the the calorie burning of um increasing the the calorie burning of the white fat so you the brown fat can

33:00the white fat so you the brown fat can the white fat so you the brown fat can actually burn the white fat so if we can actually burn the white fat so if we can actually burn the white fat so if we can activate the brown fat that's gonna take activate the brown fat that's gonna take activate the brown fat that's gonna take up glucose and fat from the fatty acids up glucose and fat from the fatty acids up glucose and fat from the fatty acids from the bloodstream and that is going from the bloodstream and that is going from the bloodstream and that is going to decrease then the the white fat to decrease then the the white fat to decrease then the the white fat storage of course in the long run that storage of course in the long run that storage of course in the long run that is not proven on the weight scale yet is not proven on the weight scale yet is not proven on the weight scale yet but um I think that that's gonna come in but um I think that that's gonna come in but um I think that that's gonna come in the future so they're quite opposite the the future so they're quite opposite the the future so they're quite opposite the good fat and the bad fat you can say good fat and the bad fat you can say good fat and the bad fat you can say yeah and then there's the base fat I'm yeah and then there's the base fat I'm yeah and then there's the base fat I'm just going to say something about that just going to say something about that just going to say something about that because I think the base fat is very because I think the base fat is very because I think the base fat is very interesting there's a lot of mice interesting there's a lot of mice interesting there's a lot of mice studies and rodent studies showing that studies and rodent studies showing that studies and rodent studies showing that if we expose animals to cold if we expose animals to cold if we expose animals to cold this is going to increase the amount of this is going to increase the amount of this is going to increase the amount of brown fat that they have so we can brown fat that they have so we can brown fat that they have so we can actually look at the brown fat as actually look at the brown fat as actually look at the brown fat as something like a plastic tissue that is something like a plastic tissue that is something like a plastic tissue that is gone that can grow which is going to gone that can grow which is going to gone that can grow which is going to increase our energy burning calorie increase our energy burning calorie increase our energy burning calorie burning in our body but it can also burning in our body but it can also burning in our body but it can also decrease so you can get less of the decrease so you can get less of the decrease so you can get less of the brown fat if you are not exposing brown fat if you are not exposing brown fat if you are not exposing yourself to temperature changes so this

34:00yourself to temperature changes so this yourself to temperature changes so this is kind of like a muscle you should look is kind of like a muscle you should look is kind of like a muscle you should look at the brown fat as a muscle so if you at the brown fat as a muscle so if you at the brown fat as a muscle so if you train it and that is with the cold or train it and that is with the cold or train it and that is with the cold or actually also the heat you're going to actually also the heat you're going to actually also the heat you're going to activate it it's gonna you're gonna tell activate it it's gonna you're gonna tell activate it it's gonna you're gonna tell the cells well we actually need to the cells well we actually need to the cells well we actually need to temperature regulate this body to temperature regulate this body to temperature regulate this body to survive and then you will keep your survive and then you will keep your survive and then you will keep your brown fat cells so use it or lose it as brown fat cells so use it or lose it as brown fat cells so use it or lose it as I also say that's the same for the I also say that's the same for the I also say that's the same for the muscle cells muscle cells muscle cells um so the brown fat also has a lot of um so the brown fat also has a lot of um so the brown fat also has a lot of mitochondria in the cells and that is mitochondria in the cells and that is mitochondria in the cells and that is for increasing the energy expenditure for increasing the energy expenditure for increasing the energy expenditure and that is what it has also in common and that is what it has also in common and that is what it has also in common with muscle cells so in some ways the with muscle cells so in some ways the with muscle cells so in some ways the brown fat cells or the brown fat organ brown fat cells or the brown fat organ brown fat cells or the brown fat organ in our body looks a little bit like the in our body looks a little bit like the in our body looks a little bit like the muscles so you should think about the muscles so you should think about the muscles so you should think about the brown fat as something you can train brown fat as something you can train brown fat as something you can train something you can grow and it can also something you can grow and it can also something you can grow and it can also decrease so use use your brown fat in decrease so use use your brown fat in decrease so use use your brown fat in there and I don't know a clever way so there and I don't know a clever way so there and I don't know a clever way so you can have this energy burning you can have this energy burning you can have this energy burning mechanism going in your body when you're mechanism going in your body when you're mechanism going in your body when you're not even exercising you just have to

35:00not even exercising you just have to not even exercising you just have to expose yourself to cold a couple of expose yourself to cold a couple of expose yourself to cold a couple of times a week and then you have that one times a week and then you have that one times a week and then you have that one going for you even when you get home so going for you even when you get home so going for you even when you get home so I think that this is a clever way of I think that this is a clever way of I think that this is a clever way of like using your biology to your own like using your biology to your own like using your biology to your own Advantage yeah you know I've heard you Advantage yeah you know I've heard you Advantage yeah you know I've heard you say in previous interviews that we all say in previous interviews that we all say in previous interviews that we all know that strength training and going to know that strength training and going to know that strength training and going to the gym in a deliberate way is the way the gym in a deliberate way is the way the gym in a deliberate way is the way to increase stress a good stress on the to increase stress a good stress on the to increase stress a good stress on the muscle and our muscles break down and muscle and our muscles break down and muscle and our muscles break down and they respond and they get stronger and they respond and they get stronger and they respond and they get stronger and they get bigger if we're eating protein they get bigger if we're eating protein they get bigger if we're eating protein as well too and so the gym which is as well too and so the gym which is as well too and so the gym which is stressful it's tough to go there as stressful it's tough to go there as stressful it's tough to go there as especially the first time the gym is to especially the first time the gym is to especially the first time the gym is to muscles as old exposure is to Brown fat muscles as old exposure is to Brown fat muscles as old exposure is to Brown fat we have to think of our Brown fat yeah we have to think of our Brown fat yeah we have to think of our Brown fat yeah again I've heard you share before you again I've heard you share before you again I've heard you share before you have to think about cold exposure is the have to think about cold exposure is the have to think about cold exposure is the lifting the weights yes for the brown lifting the weights yes for the brown lifting the weights yes for the brown fat yes when I when I heard that I was fat yes when I when I heard that I was fat yes when I when I heard that I was like that is the perfect like that is the perfect like that is the perfect explanation that I could give to my wife explanation that I could give to my wife explanation that I could give to my wife who you know the crazy thing is she

36:00who you know the crazy thing is she who you know the crazy thing is she loves shout out to Yasmin she's my loves shout out to Yasmin she's my loves shout out to Yasmin she's my beautiful wife she loves cold therapy beautiful wife she loves cold therapy beautiful wife she loves cold therapy when she does it yeah but I don't think when she does it yeah but I don't think when she does it yeah but I don't think she did it consistent enough that she she did it consistent enough that she she did it consistent enough that she hit that threshold where now she looks hit that threshold where now she looks hit that threshold where now she looks forward to it so it's always that thing forward to it so it's always that thing forward to it so it's always that thing you kind of feel like oh I don't want to you kind of feel like oh I don't want to you kind of feel like oh I don't want to do this I don't want to do this and you do this I don't want to do this and you do this I don't want to do this and you do it and you feel amazing yeah do it and you feel amazing yeah do it and you feel amazing yeah afterwards yeah I think this is this is afterwards yeah I think this is this is afterwards yeah I think this is this is right on exactly I called the code your right on exactly I called the code your right on exactly I called the code your um your metabolism Training Center so um your metabolism Training Center so um your metabolism Training Center so you go into the code and you train your you go into the code and you train your you go into the code and you train your brown fat to get to increase and get brown fat to get to increase and get brown fat to get to increase and get better more efficient what we showed in better more efficient what we showed in better more efficient what we showed in in my studies from from 2021 was also in my studies from from 2021 was also in my studies from from 2021 was also that that um when you train your brown fat by um when you train your brown fat by um when you train your brown fat by going into the cold water you get more going into the cold water you get more going into the cold water you get more efficient Brown fat cells and you will efficient Brown fat cells and you will efficient Brown fat cells and you will increase your um thermogenesis in your increase your um thermogenesis in your increase your um thermogenesis in your body so the the warming capacity but body so the the warming capacity but body so the the warming capacity but what is really interesting I think is what is really interesting I think is what is really interesting I think is that when you you when you think about that when you you when you think about that when you you when you think about the brown fat and going into the code the brown fat and going into the code the brown fat and going into the code you can think about the temperature as you can think about the temperature as you can think about the temperature as your your weights so if you go into cold

37:00your your weights so if you go into cold your your weights so if you go into cold water that is like two degrees Celsius water that is like two degrees Celsius water that is like two degrees Celsius which is uh right 35 degrees Fahrenheit which is uh right 35 degrees Fahrenheit which is uh right 35 degrees Fahrenheit then you can see that as a heavy weight then you can see that as a heavy weight then you can see that as a heavy weight and you don't have to stay in the water and you don't have to stay in the water and you don't have to stay in the water that long but if you go into water that that long but if you go into water that that long but if you go into water that is maybe 20 degrees Celsius which is 30 is maybe 20 degrees Celsius which is 30 is maybe 20 degrees Celsius which is 30 68 68 68 um degrees Fahrenheit then you can stay um degrees Fahrenheit then you can stay um degrees Fahrenheit then you can stay there a little bit longer because it's there a little bit longer because it's there a little bit longer because it's more lightweight so use the cold as a more lightweight so use the cold as a more lightweight so use the cold as a training center for your metabolism and training center for your metabolism and training center for your metabolism and yeah also for your mental health so it yeah also for your mental health so it yeah also for your mental health so it works on so many levels I think that works on so many levels I think that works on so many levels I think that it's something that we can use everybody it's something that we can use everybody it's something that we can use everybody should use it for some reason there are should use it for some reason there are should use it for some reason there are so many reasons to do it so what so many reasons to do it so what so many reasons to do it so what metabolism is definitely one of the the metabolism is definitely one of the the metabolism is definitely one of the the big things the primaries yes especially big things the primaries yes especially big things the primaries yes especially in this day and age where not only are in this day and age where not only are in this day and age where not only are we sedentary but we also have so much we sedentary but we also have so much we sedentary but we also have so much prevalence of ultra processed foods prevalence of ultra processed foods prevalence of ultra processed foods which comes with a concentration of which comes with a concentration of which comes with a concentration of calories so we're sitting too much we're

38:00calories so we're sitting too much we're calories so we're sitting too much we're overfed and now white fat which is this overfed and now white fat which is this overfed and now white fat which is this beautiful you know design by Evolution beautiful you know design by Evolution beautiful you know design by Evolution to be our Energy Center it's like a to be our Energy Center it's like a to be our Energy Center it's like a battery pack the same way that if your battery pack the same way that if your battery pack the same way that if your phone is running low you know phone is running low you know phone is running low you know evolutionary we didn't want to run out evolutionary we didn't want to run out evolutionary we didn't want to run out of energy so our bodies got really good of energy so our bodies got really good of energy so our bodies got really good at putting on weight it's just that now at putting on weight it's just that now at putting on weight it's just that now there's too much input and there's not there's too much input and there's not there's too much input and there's not enough output and proper stresses that enough output and proper stresses that enough output and proper stresses that are there you know your work was so are there you know your work was so are there you know your work was so groundbreaking because nobody had really groundbreaking because nobody had really groundbreaking because nobody had really seen this mechanism of brown fat being seen this mechanism of brown fat being seen this mechanism of brown fat being activated with the cold activated with the cold activated with the cold and I want to zoom out we'll come back and I want to zoom out we'll come back and I want to zoom out we'll come back to the work in a little bit and kind of to the work in a little bit and kind of to the work in a little bit and kind of how you designed it and how you kind of how you designed it and how you kind of how you designed it and how you kind of came up with it and some of the surveys came up with it and some of the surveys came up with it and some of the surveys that you did as well with the population that you did as well with the population that you did as well with the population on winter swimmers but give us a little on winter swimmers but give us a little on winter swimmers but give us a little bit of the history of of brown fat I was bit of the history of of brown fat I was bit of the history of of brown fat I was reading a little bit that she wrote in reading a little bit that she wrote in reading a little bit that she wrote in in some of your interviews you were in some of your interviews you were in some of your interviews you were talking about that brown fat was really talking about that brown fat was really talking about that brown fat was really discovered in the 1500s and we first discovered in the 1500s and we first discovered in the 1500s and we first noticed it in hibernating animals is noticed it in hibernating animals is noticed it in hibernating animals is that right can you talk a little bit that right can you talk a little bit that right can you talk a little bit more about that more about that more about that so the brown fat was discovered by this

39:00so the brown fat was discovered by this so the brown fat was discovered by this um researcher in his name is Conrad um researcher in his name is Conrad um researcher in his name is Conrad Gesner in 1551 he discovered this in in Gesner in 1551 he discovered this in in Gesner in 1551 he discovered this in in an animal because he was he was very an animal because he was he was very an animal because he was he was very much looking into animals and and and much looking into animals and and and much looking into animals and and and also plants and discovered a lot of also plants and discovered a lot of also plants and discovered a lot of things he's very famous so things he's very famous so things he's very famous so um but he discovered the brown fat as um but he discovered the brown fat as um but he discovered the brown fat as this tissue which is very dark and dark this tissue which is very dark and dark this tissue which is very dark and dark because of there are many mitochondria because of there are many mitochondria because of there are many mitochondria in the cells and he did he described it in the cells and he did he described it in the cells and he did he described it as a tissue which was not really a white as a tissue which was not really a white as a tissue which was not really a white fat and was not really looking like the fat and was not really looking like the fat and was not really looking like the muscle cells but something in between muscle cells but something in between muscle cells but something in between and he described it as something that and he described it as something that and he described it as something that was in this hibernating animals as was in this hibernating animals as was in this hibernating animals as something that we would need to something that we would need to something that we would need to um increase our um increase our um increase our um temperature when we are cold so he um temperature when we are cold so he um temperature when we are cold so he discovered this and later on researchers discovered this and later on researchers discovered this and later on researchers found out that this was actually also in found out that this was actually also in found out that this was actually also in humans humans humans um and we found out that this was um and we found out that this was um and we found out that this was activated in

40:00activated in activated in um in we found out that this was um in we found out that this was um in we found out that this was activated in in humans and babies have a activated in in humans and babies have a activated in in humans and babies have a lot of it but we were thinking our lot of it but we were thinking our lot of it but we were thinking our researcher were thinking researcher were thinking researcher were thinking um already in the 1920s that this was um already in the 1920s that this was um already in the 1920s that this was not something that we needed as an adult not something that we needed as an adult not something that we needed as an adult because it decreases with age apparently because it decreases with age apparently because it decreases with age apparently so babies have a lot of brown fat so babies have a lot of brown fat so babies have a lot of brown fat um and uh and more than than adults do um and uh and more than than adults do um and uh and more than than adults do so apparently is really good for so apparently is really good for so apparently is really good for increasing your temperature in your body increasing your temperature in your body increasing your temperature in your body but as the mass of your body grows the but as the mass of your body grows the but as the mass of your body grows the tissue decreases in size so it's tissue decreases in size so it's tissue decreases in size so it's definitely something that has everything definitely something that has everything definitely something that has everything to do with keeping the body warm and a to do with keeping the body warm and a to do with keeping the body warm and a baby under six months cannot baby under six months cannot baby under six months cannot um activate the the muscle cells to um activate the the muscle cells to um activate the the muscle cells to shiver so it needs a lot of brown fat to shiver so it needs a lot of brown fat to shiver so it needs a lot of brown fat to keep itself warm and as soon as the baby keep itself warm and as soon as the baby keep itself warm and as soon as the baby gets a little bit cold on the skin this gets a little bit cold on the skin this gets a little bit cold on the skin this will activate and keep it warm so it's will activate and keep it warm so it's will activate and keep it warm so it's to survive right so um but we need to go to survive right so um but we need to go to survive right so um but we need to go up to 19th 80s when we started doing

41:00up to 19th 80s when we started doing up to 19th 80s when we started doing research again in in the brown fat and research again in in the brown fat and research again in in the brown fat and discovered that this was also in humans discovered that this was also in humans discovered that this was also in humans and that we still have something left and that we still have something left and that we still have something left and people were like asking why do we and people were like asking why do we and people were like asking why do we have this and researchers look more into have this and researchers look more into have this and researchers look more into it and found out well it's not it it and found out well it's not it it and found out well it's not it doesn't really they conclude it it doesn't really they conclude it it doesn't really they conclude it it doesn't really have any purpose which doesn't really have any purpose which doesn't really have any purpose which was really a shame was really a shame was really a shame but then we came to Millennium and but then we came to Millennium and but then we came to Millennium and researchers found out that researchers found out that researchers found out that um even people who are adults and also um even people who are adults and also um even people who are adults and also people over 40 have this brown fat people over 40 have this brown fat people over 40 have this brown fat tissue but it decreases after 40 years tissue but it decreases after 40 years tissue but it decreases after 40 years of age where BMI also increases so of age where BMI also increases so of age where BMI also increases so that's kind of like not a really good that's kind of like not a really good that's kind of like not a really good thing but what they realized was that thing but what they realized was that thing but what they realized was that when the brown fat is activated in when the brown fat is activated in when the brown fat is activated in humans it increases our metabolism and humans it increases our metabolism and humans it increases our metabolism and this was also proven in people with type this was also proven in people with type this was also proven in people with type 2 diabetes so this is kind of 2 diabetes so this is kind of 2 diabetes so this is kind of groundbreaking from the Millennium then groundbreaking from the Millennium then groundbreaking from the Millennium then people started doing research in brown people started doing research in brown people started doing research in brown fat this was the new Hot Topic you can

42:00fat this was the new Hot Topic you can fat this was the new Hot Topic you can say in metabolism research that people say in metabolism research that people say in metabolism research that people would like to find out how can we would like to find out how can we would like to find out how can we activate the brown fat how can this help activate the brown fat how can this help activate the brown fat how can this help um this growing pandemic of obesity so um this growing pandemic of obesity so um this growing pandemic of obesity so that is why we are here now talking that is why we are here now talking that is why we are here now talking about this yeah as you mentioned Brown about this yeah as you mentioned Brown about this yeah as you mentioned Brown fat is associated with less obesity fat is associated with less obesity fat is associated with less obesity typically the more Brown fat you have typically the more Brown fat you have typically the more Brown fat you have the less obese you are as a person yes the less obese you are as a person yes the less obese you are as a person yes right and that um you know zooming out right and that um you know zooming out right and that um you know zooming out even a little bit more is that you know even a little bit more is that you know even a little bit more is that you know they were you were saying that it they were you were saying that it they were you were saying that it decreases after 40 but that also could decreases after 40 but that also could decreases after 40 but that also could be that we don't live in a world that is be that we don't live in a world that is be that we don't live in a world that is used to activating it yes right so it's used to activating it yes right so it's used to activating it yes right so it's not that you're inherently saying that not that you're inherently saying that not that you're inherently saying that okay everybody hits 40 it's kind of bad okay everybody hits 40 it's kind of bad okay everybody hits 40 it's kind of bad news from there just like muscle mass news from there just like muscle mass news from there just like muscle mass tends to decrease you know in your 40s tends to decrease you know in your 40s tends to decrease you know in your 40s 50s 60s and 70s well we don't have a lot 50s 60s and 70s well we don't have a lot 50s 60s and 70s well we don't have a lot of examples of healthy people who at of examples of healthy people who at of examples of healthy people who at those ages still regularly go to the gym those ages still regularly go to the gym those ages still regularly go to the gym on a big population level right so it on a big population level right so it on a big population level right so it doesn't have to be that way and we can doesn't have to be that way and we can doesn't have to be that way and we can do things and that's really what your do things and that's really what your do things and that's really what your work and research is about now getting

43:00work and research is about now getting work and research is about now getting to study Brown fat and your to study Brown fat and your to study Brown fat and your groundbreaking groundbreaking groundbreaking um uh research that you did on it before um uh research that you did on it before um uh research that you did on it before that you were interested in the topic of that you were interested in the topic of that you were interested in the topic of metabolism and you were doing some work metabolism and you were doing some work metabolism and you were doing some work in that area what were we doing in in that area what were we doing in in that area what were we doing in metabolism before you did some of this metabolism before you did some of this metabolism before you did some of this cold exposure uh research and seeing cold exposure uh research and seeing cold exposure uh research and seeing this mechanism of brown fat being this mechanism of brown fat being this mechanism of brown fat being activated yeah it's a really good activated yeah it's a really good activated yeah it's a really good question how did I get into this so question how did I get into this so question how did I get into this so um way back I was working in the um way back I was working in the um way back I was working in the hospital in the hospital Ward where we hospital in the hospital Ward where we hospital in the hospital Ward where we had a lot of really sick people actually had a lot of really sick people actually had a lot of really sick people actually cardiovascular diseases so cardiovascular diseases so cardiovascular diseases so um um and I was feeling that I was coming a and I was feeling that I was coming a and I was feeling that I was coming a little bit late to to help people little bit late to to help people little bit late to to help people um so working there and and and I love um so working there and and and I love um so working there and and and I love my job but I did have this feeling of my job but I did have this feeling of my job but I did have this feeling of why do people end up with all these why do people end up with all these why do people end up with all these blood clots in their legs and getting blood clots in their legs and getting blood clots in their legs and getting amputated which which they did in in amputated which which they did in in amputated which which they did in in this um in this hospital so and in this this um in this hospital so and in this this um in this hospital so and in this world whereas I was working and I was

44:00world whereas I was working and I was world whereas I was working and I was asking myself what can we do and I asking myself what can we do and I asking myself what can we do and I always had the question about how does always had the question about how does always had the question about how does this actually what how what what this actually what how what what this actually what how what what actually happens why do we get more and actually happens why do we get more and actually happens why do we get more and more inflammated in the body and can we more inflammated in the body and can we more inflammated in the body and can we not look more into helping people before not look more into helping people before not look more into helping people before they get sick so with that thought I they get sick so with that thought I they get sick so with that thought I went back to University and studied went back to University and studied went back to University and studied um a science master and a master in um a science master and a master in um a science master and a master in science a public health yeah and um science a public health yeah and um science a public health yeah and um during that Master I wanted to see if I during that Master I wanted to see if I during that Master I wanted to see if I could do some studies in some basic could do some studies in some basic could do some studies in some basic research in to how we prevent diseases research in to how we prevent diseases research in to how we prevent diseases so I started out with asking the so I started out with asking the so I started out with asking the question so can we lower our um degree question so can we lower our um degree question so can we lower our um degree of Sweet Tooth for snacking and because of Sweet Tooth for snacking and because of Sweet Tooth for snacking and because if we can do that then we would also if we can do that then we would also if we can do that then we would also have a helping hand to not in have all have a helping hand to not in have all have a helping hand to not in have all this caloric intake of course and that this caloric intake of course and that this caloric intake of course and that is why I started doing research in what is why I started doing research in what is why I started doing research in what is called the fgf21 which is the is called the fgf21 which is the is called the fgf21 which is the fibroblast growth factor 21 a liver

45:00fibroblast growth factor 21 a liver fibroblast growth factor 21 a liver derived hormone which by derived hormone which by derived hormone which by which we just to fast forward to our which we just to fast forward to our which we just to fast forward to our results from that published and sell results from that published and sell results from that published and sell metabolism in 2017 which we found the metabolism in 2017 which we found the metabolism in 2017 which we found the genetic um course of the Sweet Tooth genetic um course of the Sweet Tooth genetic um course of the Sweet Tooth um that's how it ended up it took some um that's how it ended up it took some um that's how it ended up it took some years to do that but fdf21 showed um we years to do that but fdf21 showed um we years to do that but fdf21 showed um we found that if you have a variant uh on found that if you have a variant uh on found that if you have a variant uh on the fgf-21 gene then you would have a the fgf-21 gene then you would have a the fgf-21 gene then you would have a more of a sweet tooth so you could it's more of a sweet tooth so you could it's more of a sweet tooth so you could it's not something you can do anything about not something you can do anything about not something you can do anything about of course I have genetically predisposed of course I have genetically predisposed of course I have genetically predisposed to having a sweet tooth but it really to having a sweet tooth but it really to having a sweet tooth but it really showed that some people do have a sweet showed that some people do have a sweet showed that some people do have a sweet tooth more than others and that was kind tooth more than others and that was kind tooth more than others and that was kind of like the start of my interest in of like the start of my interest in of like the start of my interest in preventive medicine and then I went into preventive medicine and then I went into preventive medicine and then I went into the brown fat research because I wanted the brown fat research because I wanted the brown fat research because I wanted to do something that I could go out and to do something that I could go out and to do something that I could go out and make an application say well you can make an application say well you can make an application say well you can apply research it's called right so I apply research it's called right so I apply research it's called right so I could go and say please do this to keep

46:00could go and say please do this to keep could go and say please do this to keep yourself healthy and that is why I went yourself healthy and that is why I went yourself healthy and that is why I went into the brown fat research it was new into the brown fat research it was new into the brown fat research it was new and it was not very explored and I think and it was not very explored and I think and it was not very explored and I think it's very interesting that you can do it's very interesting that you can do it's very interesting that you can do something natural like going into the something natural like going into the something natural like going into the cold or the heat and what actually cold or the heat and what actually cold or the heat and what actually happens in the body not that I was a happens in the body not that I was a happens in the body not that I was a winter swimmer myself so it wasn't winter swimmer myself so it wasn't winter swimmer myself so it wasn't because I was fanatic or anything about because I was fanatic or anything about because I was fanatic or anything about that on on the contrary actually but I that on on the contrary actually but I that on on the contrary actually but I was interested to see how can we stay was interested to see how can we stay was interested to see how can we stay healthy naturally so what was your first healthy naturally so what was your first healthy naturally so what was your first experience you read about this a little experience you read about this a little experience you read about this a little bit in the intro that you were saying bit in the intro that you were saying bit in the intro that you were saying that you and your husband were going on that you and your husband were going on that you and your husband were going on a walk in Denmark and you saw a group of a walk in Denmark and you saw a group of a walk in Denmark and you saw a group of winter swimmers or is it was that before winter swimmers or is it was that before winter swimmers or is it was that before or after you had an advisor saying you or after you had an advisor saying you or after you had an advisor saying you know you should look into this emerging know you should look into this emerging know you should look into this emerging sort of field of cold exposure so what sort of field of cold exposure so what sort of field of cold exposure so what what came first did you happen to what came first did you happen to what came first did you happen to stumble upon this group or was this stumble upon this group or was this stumble upon this group or was this advisor kind of steering you in the advisor kind of steering you in the advisor kind of steering you in the direction or did they happen at the same direction or did they happen at the same direction or did they happen at the same time uh no so the the observations with time uh no so the the observations with time uh no so the the observations with my husband on on the winter swimmers in my husband on on the winter swimmers in my husband on on the winter swimmers in Denmark have been for years for years I

47:00Denmark have been for years for years I Denmark have been for years for years I live close to the water and when we go live close to the water and when we go live close to the water and when we go for a walk on the beach and then people for a walk on the beach and then people for a walk on the beach and then people went to swim and and remember that I was went to swim and and remember that I was went to swim and and remember that I was not really a a fan of the cold I not really a a fan of the cold I not really a a fan of the cold I couldn't really see why should I go into couldn't really see why should I go into couldn't really see why should I go into the cold other than my grandparents told the cold other than my grandparents told the cold other than my grandparents told me to but they didn't explain why so I me to but they didn't explain why so I me to but they didn't explain why so I didn't want to do it didn't want to do it didn't want to do it um but we were kind of talking about it um but we were kind of talking about it um but we were kind of talking about it but why would they do that of course but why would they do that of course but why would they do that of course they're not insane but they do it for they're not insane but they do it for they're not insane but they do it for some reason it seems like they are some reason it seems like they are some reason it seems like they are having fun and that was like that was having fun and that was like that was having fun and that was like that was like stuck in my head so they are doing like stuck in my head so they are doing like stuck in my head so they are doing something here they claim for themselves something here they claim for themselves something here they claim for themselves to be healthy that they can't explain it to be healthy that they can't explain it to be healthy that they can't explain it really but for some reason they all really but for some reason they all really but for some reason they all agree and I don't think they all gather agree and I don't think they all gather agree and I don't think they all gather some one times a year and then explain some one times a year and then explain some one times a year and then explain to each other what are we gonna gonna go to each other what are we gonna gonna go to each other what are we gonna gonna go out and say of course it's not a out and say of course it's not a out and say of course it's not a conspiracy in that way but they all say conspiracy in that way but they all say conspiracy in that way but they all say the same and I was kind of like the same and I was kind of like the same and I was kind of like fascinated by that and then when I went fascinated by that and then when I went fascinated by that and then when I went into to this brown fat research that was into to this brown fat research that was into to this brown fat research that was kind of like my mentor saying well now kind of like my mentor saying well now kind of like my mentor saying well now you've you're done with your master you you've you're done with your master you you've you're done with your master you publish this in some metabolism fgf21

48:00publish this in some metabolism fgf21 publish this in some metabolism fgf21 maybe you should try some something in maybe you should try some something in maybe you should try some something in in the brown fat area and and Matthew in the brown fat area and and Matthew in the brown fat area and and Matthew killum that was my my supervisor that at killum that was my my supervisor that at killum that was my my supervisor that at the time he's a he's a associate the time he's a he's a associate the time he's a he's a associate professor at Copenhagen University and professor at Copenhagen University and professor at Copenhagen University and he said well maybe you should look into he said well maybe you should look into he said well maybe you should look into this brown fat and I uh I got the job in this brown fat and I uh I got the job in this brown fat and I uh I got the job in this group where they um exam the brown this group where they um exam the brown this group where they um exam the brown fat and mostly in cell uh studies and in fat and mostly in cell uh studies and in fat and mostly in cell uh studies and in mice and no one in the group really mice and no one in the group really mice and no one in the group really looked into the human studies so I asked looked into the human studies so I asked looked into the human studies so I asked whether they would like to have the whether they would like to have the whether they would like to have the human studies in this and they would human studies in this and they would human studies in this and they would very much love too and I read a lot of very much love too and I read a lot of very much love too and I read a lot of studies about the brown fat and it took studies about the brown fat and it took studies about the brown fat and it took me months and months and months of me months and months and months of me months and months and months of reading but I could see reading but I could see reading but I could see that you could expose yourself to The that you could expose yourself to The that you could expose yourself to The Code by sleeping in a cold room at 19 Code by sleeping in a cold room at 19 Code by sleeping in a cold room at 19 degrees Celsius which is 66 degrees degrees Celsius which is 66 degrees degrees Celsius which is 66 degrees Fahrenheit and that's going to activate Fahrenheit and that's going to activate Fahrenheit and that's going to activate your brown fat so this was tested in your brown fat so this was tested in your brown fat so this was tested in subjects um obese subjects um and they

49:00subjects um obese subjects um and they subjects um obese subjects um and they slept for months at 19 degrees Celsius slept for months at 19 degrees Celsius slept for months at 19 degrees Celsius and then they could see that there was and then they could see that there was and then they could see that there was an increase in brown fat amount and also an increase in brown fat amount and also an increase in brown fat amount and also an increase in insulin sensitivity so an increase in insulin sensitivity so an increase in insulin sensitivity so that was really interesting that was really interesting that was really interesting clarification on that sorry to interrupt clarification on that sorry to interrupt clarification on that sorry to interrupt that's fine so when you're in the room that's fine so when you're in the room that's fine so when you're in the room and you're sleeping at that temperature and you're sleeping at that temperature and you're sleeping at that temperature and maybe you don't know but maybe you and maybe you don't know but maybe you and maybe you don't know but maybe you do know where the participants still had do know where the participants still had do know where the participants still had any kind of blanket on just the air any kind of blanket on just the air any kind of blanket on just the air temperature was at that 60 you know 66 temperature was at that 60 you know 66 temperature was at that 60 you know 66 degrees Yeah 66 degrees but they had degrees Yeah 66 degrees but they had degrees Yeah 66 degrees but they had this duvet thing okay this duvet thing okay this duvet thing okay exposure to the air they still were a exposure to the air they still were a exposure to the air they still were a little bit warm inside but the air little bit warm inside but the air little bit warm inside but the air outside was colder yeah exactly it's outside was colder yeah exactly it's outside was colder yeah exactly it's also because you have temperature also because you have temperature also because you have temperature um receptors also in your mouth in your um receptors also in your mouth in your um receptors also in your mouth in your in your lungs so that's also going to be in your lungs so that's also going to be in your lungs so that's also going to be activate and you also have that in your activate and you also have that in your activate and you also have that in your face and your hands so you're going to face and your hands so you're going to face and your hands so you're going to be exposed to the code and the body be exposed to the code and the body be exposed to the code and the body sends this and the brown fat will be sends this and the brown fat will be sends this and the brown fat will be activated just by that activated just by that activated just by that um so you increase your metabolism just um so you increase your metabolism just um so you increase your metabolism just by sleeping in and 90 degrees room which

50:00by sleeping in and 90 degrees room which by sleeping in and 90 degrees room which is 66 degrees Fahrenheit this study was is 66 degrees Fahrenheit this study was is 66 degrees Fahrenheit this study was so amazing and it really made an so amazing and it really made an so amazing and it really made an impressed me I was like wow so you can impressed me I was like wow so you can impressed me I was like wow so you can sleep at 19 degrees and increase your sleep at 19 degrees and increase your sleep at 19 degrees and increase your metabolism just by sleeping there and it metabolism just by sleeping there and it metabolism just by sleeping there and it increases your insulin sensitivity that increases your insulin sensitivity that increases your insulin sensitivity that is amazing and you don't have to take a is amazing and you don't have to take a is amazing and you don't have to take a pill it's just sleeping there right pill it's just sleeping there right pill it's just sleeping there right so I was just asking because I live in so I was just asking because I live in so I was just asking because I live in Denmark and we do see a lot of winter Denmark and we do see a lot of winter Denmark and we do see a lot of winter swimming going on there um and this is swimming going on there um and this is swimming going on there um and this is 2016 at this time so I was thinking just 2016 at this time so I was thinking just 2016 at this time so I was thinking just for fun well what about people working for fun well what about people working for fun well what about people working outside what about people who dips in outside what about people who dips in outside what about people who dips in cold water will they activate the brown cold water will they activate the brown cold water will they activate the brown fat fat fat so this question led me to research the so this question led me to research the so this question led me to research the literature around winter swimming and I literature around winter swimming and I literature around winter swimming and I found one study by a keeper stoma ID L found one study by a keeper stoma ID L found one study by a keeper stoma ID L from 2016 showing that by winter from 2016 showing that by winter from 2016 showing that by winter swimming in middle aged men and women swimming in middle aged men and women swimming in middle aged men and women they increased the insulin sensitivity

51:00they increased the insulin sensitivity they increased the insulin sensitivity by one winter swimming season but they by one winter swimming season but they by one winter swimming season but they didn't study the brown fat and actually didn't study the brown fat and actually didn't study the brown fat and actually in the conclusion they write that they in the conclusion they write that they in the conclusion they write that they don't have an explanation for this don't have an explanation for this don't have an explanation for this increase in insulin sensitivity so I increase in insulin sensitivity so I increase in insulin sensitivity so I connected these dots and thought oh wow connected these dots and thought oh wow connected these dots and thought oh wow it could be that the brown fat is the it could be that the brown fat is the it could be that the brown fat is the missing link and that is like the missing link and that is like the missing link and that is like the background for starting my research wow background for starting my research wow background for starting my research wow super fascinating and you were talking super fascinating and you were talking super fascinating and you were talking about you know insulin sensitivity we've about you know insulin sensitivity we've about you know insulin sensitivity we've done so many episodes on this podcast done so many episodes on this podcast done so many episodes on this podcast about the important about staying you about the important about staying you about the important about staying you know insulin sensitive and not being know insulin sensitive and not being know insulin sensitive and not being insulin resistant which is something we insulin resistant which is something we insulin resistant which is something we don't want that's when the insulin can't don't want that's when the insulin can't don't want that's when the insulin can't get into our cells because there's too get into our cells because there's too get into our cells because there's too much of it and many doctors and much of it and many doctors and much of it and many doctors and researchers have come on this podcast researchers have come on this podcast researchers have come on this podcast talking about how that could be playing talking about how that could be playing talking about how that could be playing a role in this inflammatory Cascade that a role in this inflammatory Cascade that a role in this inflammatory Cascade that you were sharing a little bit earlier you were sharing a little bit earlier you were sharing a little bit earlier yeah and food of course is one of those yeah and food of course is one of those yeah and food of course is one of those components that are there just too many components that are there just too many components that are there just too many calories too much sugar too much refined calories too much sugar too much refined calories too much sugar too much refined flowers inside of our diet so anything flowers inside of our diet so anything flowers inside of our diet so anything that we can do it's not that we have to that we can do it's not that we have to that we can do it's not that we have to stay away from these Foods all together stay away from these Foods all together stay away from these Foods all together but any other lifestyle things we can do

52:00but any other lifestyle things we can do but any other lifestyle things we can do like working out when we build our like working out when we build our like working out when we build our muscle mass our muscles are one of the muscle mass our muscles are one of the muscle mass our muscles are one of the biggest consumers of glucose in the body biggest consumers of glucose in the body biggest consumers of glucose in the body but what you're saying now and what you but what you're saying now and what you but what you're saying now and what you found through your research is that hey found through your research is that hey found through your research is that hey it's not just our muscles it's our Brown it's not just our muscles it's our Brown it's not just our muscles it's our Brown fat too that can be something that can fat too that can be something that can fat too that can be something that can also end up utilizing a lot of this sort also end up utilizing a lot of this sort also end up utilizing a lot of this sort of free-floating sugar in the system and of free-floating sugar in the system and of free-floating sugar in the system and make us more insulin sensitive which is make us more insulin sensitive which is make us more insulin sensitive which is a good thing is that correct it's I a good thing is that correct it's I a good thing is that correct it's I think it's very correct yeah and the think it's very correct yeah and the think it's very correct yeah and the muscles I suggest mentioned is of course muscles I suggest mentioned is of course muscles I suggest mentioned is of course also helping because when you go into also helping because when you go into also helping because when you go into cold water and you do a dip or you swim cold water and you do a dip or you swim cold water and you do a dip or you swim or whatever when I say winter swimming I or whatever when I say winter swimming I or whatever when I say winter swimming I of course also just mean copolunching of course also just mean copolunching of course also just mean copolunching it's just different words but the same it's just different words but the same it's just different words but the same thing thing thing um but you also activate your muscles um but you also activate your muscles um but you also activate your muscles because they start shivering at some because they start shivering at some because they start shivering at some point so so by doing so you also point so so by doing so you also point so so by doing so you also increase the mitochondria in the muscle increase the mitochondria in the muscle increase the mitochondria in the muscle cells which will then also increase your cells which will then also increase your cells which will then also increase your um your metabolism so it all works um your metabolism so it all works um your metabolism so it all works together to increase your insulin together to increase your insulin together to increase your insulin sensitivity which we just adjust upon sensitivity which we just adjust upon sensitivity which we just adjust upon itself where is Brown fat typically itself where is Brown fat typically itself where is Brown fat typically located in the body where do you see it

53:00located in the body where do you see it located in the body where do you see it and by the way I believe the way that and by the way I believe the way that and by the way I believe the way that you were studying these participants was you were studying these participants was you were studying these participants was was it a PEC scan uh Pet City scanning a was it a PEC scan uh Pet City scanning a was it a PEC scan uh Pet City scanning a pet MRI X actually so we did the pet and pet MRI X actually so we did the pet and pet MRI X actually so we did the pet and the MRI scanning to see the MRI scanning to see the MRI scanning to see um because we can then see the with 3D um because we can then see the with 3D um because we can then see the with 3D we could see the the tissue also in in we could see the the tissue also in in we could see the the tissue also in in the body so the body so the body so um the MRI scans were really good to um the MRI scans were really good to um the MRI scans were really good to locate also where is the brown fat and locate also where is the brown fat and locate also where is the brown fat and we measured the supraclavicular brown we measured the supraclavicular brown we measured the supraclavicular brown fat Depot and we also measured the Depot fat Depot and we also measured the Depot fat Depot and we also measured the Depot around the kidneys but in my research around the kidneys but in my research around the kidneys but in my research study we we focused mostly on the study we we focused mostly on the study we we focused mostly on the biggest Depot which is the under the biggest Depot which is the under the biggest Depot which is the under the superclavicular bones but so for those superclavicular bones but so for those superclavicular bones but so for those that are listening pointing kind of like that are listening pointing kind of like that are listening pointing kind of like right around your collarbones yes so right around your collarbones yes so right around your collarbones yes so you're saying that that's the largest you're saying that that's the largest you're saying that that's the largest concentration yes deposit or Depot as concentration yes deposit or Depot as concentration yes deposit or Depot as you're saying yeah of brown fat yes so you're saying yeah of brown fat yes so you're saying yeah of brown fat yes so you have six you have six you have six um deposits in your body um deposits in your body um deposits in your body um which is shown by a really nice study um which is shown by a really nice study um which is shown by a really nice study from from from um um from Lightner edel from 2017 they showed

54:00from Lightner edel from 2017 they showed from Lightner edel from 2017 they showed that by this Pet City overlays they that by this Pet City overlays they that by this Pet City overlays they could see from from different could see from from different could see from from different participants in this study from this participants in this study from this participants in this study from this overlays they could they could pick out overlays they could they could pick out overlays they could they could pick out or they can show where in the body is or they can show where in the body is or they can show where in the body is brown fat located so it's not about just brown fat located so it's not about just brown fat located so it's not about just one picture of one one uh subject one picture of one one uh subject one picture of one one uh subject showing where is the brown fat in the showing where is the brown fat in the showing where is the brown fat in the body but but with these overlays it also body but but with these overlays it also body but but with these overlays it also shows the potential of growing your shows the potential of growing your shows the potential of growing your brown fat where can we grow more Brown brown fat where can we grow more Brown brown fat where can we grow more Brown fat in our body so it really shows that fat in our body so it really shows that fat in our body so it really shows that there is this sixth Depot so it's a lot there is this sixth Depot so it's a lot there is this sixth Depot so it's a lot of Depots actually in our bodies and of Depots actually in our bodies and of Depots actually in our bodies and it's called an organ because it's so it's called an organ because it's so it's called an organ because it's so different from any other tissue or cells different from any other tissue or cells different from any other tissue or cells we have in our body so it's actually an we have in our body so it's actually an we have in our body so it's actually an organ also but it's all the Depots are organ also but it's all the Depots are organ also but it's all the Depots are located around our central nervous located around our central nervous located around our central nervous system which is very interesting I think system which is very interesting I think system which is very interesting I think but the largest Depot is under a but the largest Depot is under a but the largest Depot is under a superclavicular bones and we have a down superclavicular bones and we have a down superclavicular bones and we have a down our spine and a bit around the kidneys

55:00our spine and a bit around the kidneys our spine and a bit around the kidneys and around the heart and and we also and around the heart and and we also and around the heart and and we also have it up oh on the neck and also in have it up oh on the neck and also in have it up oh on the neck and also in our our our um um what is that called armpit armpit what is that called armpit armpit what is that called armpit armpit exactly yeah okay I lost the word exactly yeah okay I lost the word exactly yeah okay I lost the word um yeah and and why do you think there's um yeah and and why do you think there's um yeah and and why do you think there's so much I mean you mentioned that a lot so much I mean you mentioned that a lot so much I mean you mentioned that a lot of the brown fat depositories which are of the brown fat depositories which are of the brown fat depositories which are located around these you know six located around these you know six located around these you know six different sites but the biggest one different sites but the biggest one different sites but the biggest one being around the collarbone area you're being around the collarbone area you're being around the collarbone area you're mentioning that they're around our mentioning that they're around our mentioning that they're around our nervous system the the centralizing of nervous system the the centralizing of nervous system the the centralizing of our nervous system our nervous system our nervous system why is that is that a protection why is that is that a protection why is that is that a protection mechanism that are the brown fat would mechanism that are the brown fat would mechanism that are the brown fat would be located around those areas yeah I be located around those areas yeah I be located around those areas yeah I think that's that's one of the things think that's that's one of the things think that's that's one of the things that of course we can debate that that's that of course we can debate that that's that of course we can debate that that's not going to be a clear answer to this not going to be a clear answer to this not going to be a clear answer to this but I think I started to think a lot but I think I started to think a lot but I think I started to think a lot about this while I was doing my research about this while I was doing my research about this while I was doing my research because I was thinking why don't we just because I was thinking why don't we just because I was thinking why don't we just because people are asking me can I can I because people are asking me can I can I because people are asking me can I can I activate my brown fat in my arm if I put activate my brown fat in my arm if I put activate my brown fat in my arm if I put my hand into cold water I'm like but you my hand into cold water I'm like but you my hand into cold water I'm like but you don't have it in your arm and then it's don't have it in your arm and then it's don't have it in your arm and then it's thinking why don't we actually have it thinking why don't we actually have it thinking why don't we actually have it in in our arms and legs but it's located in in our arms and legs but it's located in in our arms and legs but it's located around the central nervous system and I

56:00around the central nervous system and I around the central nervous system and I think this is pretty much explained by think this is pretty much explained by think this is pretty much explained by the way it's activated so the brown fat the way it's activated so the brown fat the way it's activated so the brown fat is activated from different Pathways is activated from different Pathways is activated from different Pathways um so by uh research that is a little um so by uh research that is a little um so by uh research that is a little bit older but also some new studies bit older but also some new studies bit older but also some new studies showing that it's primarily activated showing that it's primarily activated showing that it's primarily activated from your brain so we have our from your brain so we have our from your brain so we have our temperature regulating Center up in our temperature regulating Center up in our temperature regulating Center up in our Earth hypothalamus so temperature Earth hypothalamus so temperature Earth hypothalamus so temperature sensitive receptors in our skin would sensitive receptors in our skin would sensitive receptors in our skin would send a signal to this Center in our send a signal to this Center in our send a signal to this Center in our brain and that's going to increase brain and that's going to increase brain and that's going to increase norepinephrine and activate our on the norepinephrine and activate our on the norepinephrine and activate our on the surface on of of the brown fat cells and surface on of of the brown fat cells and surface on of of the brown fat cells and it's it's going so fast because it's so it's it's going so fast because it's so it's it's going so fast because it's so closely located around our central closely located around our central closely located around our central nervous system so it's really a survival nervous system so it's really a survival nervous system so it's really a survival organ that we have it needs to have it organ that we have it needs to have it organ that we have it needs to have it needs to be in front of uh um our you needs to be in front of uh um our you needs to be in front of uh um our you can say um yeah it needs to have the can say um yeah it needs to have the can say um yeah it needs to have the message right away and that is probably message right away and that is probably message right away and that is probably why it's located so close to the central

57:00why it's located so close to the central why it's located so close to the central nervous system and around our central nervous system and around our central nervous system and around our central nervous system down our spine as well nervous system down our spine as well nervous system down our spine as well there's also another pathway and that's there's also another pathway and that's there's also another pathway and that's going directly from our temperature going directly from our temperature going directly from our temperature receptors in our skin directly a message receptors in our skin directly a message receptors in our skin directly a message to the brown fat and also um there is to the brown fat and also um there is to the brown fat and also um there is also a pathway from the muscles directly also a pathway from the muscles directly also a pathway from the muscles directly to the brown fat so it seems that our to the brown fat so it seems that our to the brown fat so it seems that our Brown fat is a survival organ that we Brown fat is a survival organ that we Brown fat is a survival organ that we have that is going to be the first have that is going to be the first have that is going to be the first responder to our environment so if you responder to our environment so if you responder to our environment so if you think back when we didn't live in these think back when we didn't live in these think back when we didn't live in these perfectly isolated houses and we were perfectly isolated houses and we were perfectly isolated houses and we were living out in nature you can really living out in nature you can really living out in nature you can really think about the brown fat as super think about the brown fat as super think about the brown fat as super important for our survival and that is important for our survival and that is important for our survival and that is probably why we are here today we are probably why we are here today we are probably why we are here today we are the surviving species you can say and I the surviving species you can say and I the surviving species you can say and I just wonder the other human kinds that just wonder the other human kinds that just wonder the other human kinds that were before us so we were the last one were before us so we were the last one were before us so we were the last one standing as we are did they didn't they standing as we are did they didn't they standing as we are did they didn't they have as much Brown fat didn't they have as much Brown fat didn't they have as much Brown fat didn't they really have this kind of mechanism what really have this kind of mechanism what really have this kind of mechanism what is actually going on because we we kept

58:00is actually going on because we we kept is actually going on because we we kept this and we still have it today or this and we still have it today or this and we still have it today or actually are we losing it a bit that is actually are we losing it a bit that is actually are we losing it a bit that is maybe the the question that I cannot maybe the the question that I cannot maybe the the question that I cannot answer right now yeah but it's a answer right now yeah but it's a answer right now yeah but it's a fascinating question yeah to think you fascinating question yeah to think you fascinating question yeah to think you know how did we get here why do we have know how did we get here why do we have know how did we get here why do we have this ability but also what's going to this ability but also what's going to this ability but also what's going to happen to us if we start losing this happen to us if we start losing this happen to us if we start losing this yeah I think that it's really yeah I think that it's really yeah I think that it's really interesting that by the by 1980s we can interesting that by the by 1980s we can interesting that by the by 1980s we can really see this growing pandemic of really see this growing pandemic of really see this growing pandemic of obesity right but we could also see a obesity right but we could also see a obesity right but we could also see a growing tendency to stay more in a growing tendency to stay more in a growing tendency to stay more in a thermal neutral State and I think that thermal neutral State and I think that thermal neutral State and I think that there is a relationship between this so there is a relationship between this so there is a relationship between this so as much as we get more sedentary we also as much as we get more sedentary we also as much as we get more sedentary we also decrease our activation of our Brown fat decrease our activation of our Brown fat decrease our activation of our Brown fat of course because we are not exposed to of course because we are not exposed to of course because we are not exposed to temperature changes and that is what is temperature changes and that is what is temperature changes and that is what is keeping your metabolism keeping your metabolism keeping your metabolism um up so if you don't do that then your um up so if you don't do that then your um up so if you don't do that then your body your cells are getting lazy and body your cells are getting lazy and body your cells are getting lazy and they don't really you're not using for they don't really you're not using for they don't really you're not using for anything and then you have this anything and then you have this anything and then you have this imbalance in your body and your imbalance in your body and your

59:00imbalance in your body and your metabolism in your cells and I'm not I'm metabolism in your cells and I'm not I'm metabolism in your cells and I'm not I'm not questioning whether this is actually not questioning whether this is actually not questioning whether this is actually has something to do with a increase in has something to do with a increase in has something to do with a increase in obesity and and increase in in also obesity and and increase in in also obesity and and increase in in also anxiety and depression as we see a World anxiety and depression as we see a World anxiety and depression as we see a World Health Organization is putting these Health Organization is putting these Health Organization is putting these statistics out so we kind of know that statistics out so we kind of know that statistics out so we kind of know that this is a growing problem and I think this is a growing problem and I think this is a growing problem and I think that the brown fat is one of the things that the brown fat is one of the things that the brown fat is one of the things that we can Target to help this crisis that we can Target to help this crisis that we can Target to help this crisis uh absolutely true and you know in uh absolutely true and you know in uh absolutely true and you know in America especially and around the world America especially and around the world America especially and around the world now you know the world being becoming so now you know the world being becoming so now you know the world being becoming so westernized there's been so much westernized there's been so much westernized there's been so much emphasis placed on exercise right like emphasis placed on exercise right like emphasis placed on exercise right like traditional exercise movements strength traditional exercise movements strength traditional exercise movements strength training going to the gym and obviously training going to the gym and obviously training going to the gym and obviously there's a whole list of benefits that there's a whole list of benefits that there's a whole list of benefits that are there but in many ways the gym isn't are there but in many ways the gym isn't are there but in many ways the gym isn't always the thing that everybody wants to always the thing that everybody wants to always the thing that everybody wants to go to and the reason that I've found the go to and the reason that I've found the go to and the reason that I've found the work that you were doing in cold work that you were doing in cold work that you were doing in cold exposure and also you summarizing a lot exposure and also you summarizing a lot exposure and also you summarizing a lot of the literature on hot exposure which of the literature on hot exposure which of the literature on hot exposure which we'll get to in a little bit is that you we'll get to in a little bit is that you we'll get to in a little bit is that you look at these things and in the body you look at these things and in the body you look at these things and in the body you see a lot of similarities many of the see a lot of similarities many of the see a lot of similarities many of the benefits that people get

1:00benefits that people get benefits that people get um and many of the pathways that are um and many of the pathways that are um and many of the pathways that are activated in exercise are also activated activated in exercise are also activated activated in exercise are also activated in cold and hot exposure in fact as in cold and hot exposure in fact as in cold and hot exposure in fact as someone who is is really close to his someone who is is really close to his someone who is is really close to his parents my my parents they live in San parents my my parents they live in San parents my my parents they live in San Diego and I uh I'm always thinking about Diego and I uh I'm always thinking about Diego and I uh I'm always thinking about how to get movement into their lives and how to get movement into their lives and how to get movement into their lives and regular basis especially because we come regular basis especially because we come regular basis especially because we come from a South Asian background we're from a South Asian background we're from a South Asian background we're Indian and that's typically a society Indian and that's typically a society Indian and that's typically a society here in America that you're uh you know here in America that you're uh you know here in America that you're uh you know a working professional and you're more a working professional and you're more a working professional and you're more sedentary and you're not you're not um sedentary and you're not you're not um sedentary and you're not you're not um you're more insulin uh prone right you're more insulin uh prone right you're more insulin uh prone right you're more insulin resistant prone as a you're more insulin resistant prone as a you're more insulin resistant prone as a population and you just typically don't population and you just typically don't population and you just typically don't have a culture that works out as much in have a culture that works out as much in have a culture that works out as much in that group right that group right that group right and so walking is one of the things so and so walking is one of the things so and so walking is one of the things so you know my parents my dad gets in like you know my parents my dad gets in like you know my parents my dad gets in like you know 10 to 18 000 steps my mom is you know 10 to 18 000 steps my mom is you know 10 to 18 000 steps my mom is now around 10 000 steps but also when I now around 10 000 steps but also when I now around 10 000 steps but also when I was looking at the literature myself and was looking at the literature myself and was looking at the literature myself and my brother-in-law who's a cardiologist my brother-in-law who's a cardiologist my brother-in-law who's a cardiologist down in San Diego it's like if we can

1:01down in San Diego it's like if we can down in San Diego it's like if we can get our parents to do uh sauna and also get our parents to do uh sauna and also get our parents to do uh sauna and also some a little bit of cold exposure to some a little bit of cold exposure to some a little bit of cold exposure to the degree that they can tolerate it's the degree that they can tolerate it's the degree that they can tolerate it's as close to exercise as as close to exercise as as close to exercise as kind of what we know is available to us kind of what we know is available to us kind of what we know is available to us right now do you think that's a fair right now do you think that's a fair right now do you think that's a fair statement yeah I think we can absolutely statement yeah I think we can absolutely statement yeah I think we can absolutely use it as an add-on I would I would use it as an add-on I would I would use it as an add-on I would I would always Advocate also for exercise of always Advocate also for exercise of always Advocate also for exercise of course but but as you said there's also course but but as you said there's also course but but as you said there's also a minimum dose that you can do so any a minimum dose that you can do so any a minimum dose that you can do so any movement you can get into your life is movement you can get into your life is movement you can get into your life is going to help you even going for a walk going to help you even going for a walk going to help you even going for a walk is something that is proven with science is something that is proven with science is something that is proven with science has a beneficial effect on your has a beneficial effect on your has a beneficial effect on your metabolism on your insulin resistancy so metabolism on your insulin resistancy so metabolism on your insulin resistancy so I think that anything you can get into I think that anything you can get into I think that anything you can get into to your life what is feasible for you to your life what is feasible for you to your life what is feasible for you also regarding the cold and the heat so also regarding the cold and the heat so also regarding the cold and the heat so if you don't have a cold plunge or you if you don't have a cold plunge or you if you don't have a cold plunge or you don't have open scene nearby you can don't have open scene nearby you can don't have open scene nearby you can also go and take a cold shower 30 also go and take a cold shower 30 also go and take a cold shower 30 seconds is actually enough also to get seconds is actually enough also to get seconds is actually enough also to get that metabolism going increase your that metabolism going increase your that metabolism going increase your happiness hormones and neurotransmitters happiness hormones and neurotransmitters happiness hormones and neurotransmitters in your brain but also washing your

1:02in your brain but also washing your in your brain but also washing your hands and your face in cold water is hands and your face in cold water is hands and your face in cold water is going to activate the brown fat and going to activate the brown fat and going to activate the brown fat and attested this and all the studies that attested this and all the studies that attested this and all the studies that also tested this and you can activate also tested this and you can activate also tested this and you can activate your brown fat by by exposing just parts your brown fat by by exposing just parts your brown fat by by exposing just parts of your body to cold so you can start of your body to cold so you can start of your body to cold so you can start off with hands face or cold showers and off with hands face or cold showers and off with hands face or cold showers and then when you get a little bit more then when you get a little bit more then when you get a little bit more adapted to that and the idea of actually adapted to that and the idea of actually adapted to that and the idea of actually using the code for anything then you can using the code for anything then you can using the code for anything then you can maybe expand by going into the sea or maybe expand by going into the sea or maybe expand by going into the sea or maybe by a top or something to go into maybe by a top or something to go into maybe by a top or something to go into yeah I'm going to break those down yeah I'm going to break those down yeah I'm going to break those down because we have a whole list of sort of because we have a whole list of sort of because we have a whole list of sort of the the recommendations that are there the the recommendations that are there the the recommendations that are there and how people can integrate them into and how people can integrate them into and how people can integrate them into their life you mentioned cold shower their life you mentioned cold shower their life you mentioned cold shower called bathing there's of course winter called bathing there's of course winter called bathing there's of course winter swimming you know we'll talk about swimming you know we'll talk about swimming you know we'll talk about cryotherapy splashing the water cryotherapy splashing the water cryotherapy splashing the water splashing the face with cold water which splashing the face with cold water which splashing the face with cold water which is really fascinating and I think going is really fascinating and I think going is really fascinating and I think going to be an interesting way for some of our to be an interesting way for some of our to be an interesting way for some of our audience to get started before we do audience to get started before we do audience to get started before we do that just just set up uh your study for that just just set up uh your study for that just just set up uh your study for a second what was how many people was it a second what was how many people was it a second what was how many people was it and and what was the protocol that they

1:03and and what was the protocol that they and and what was the protocol that they were on in the study that led to all were on in the study that led to all were on in the study that led to all these benefits that you described these benefits that you described these benefits that you described previously how frequently were they previously how frequently were they previously how frequently were they going uh during the during the research going uh during the during the research going uh during the during the research to have this cold immersion to have this cold immersion to have this cold immersion it's a really good question and that was it's a really good question and that was it's a really good question and that was also one of the things that I struggled also one of the things that I struggled also one of the things that I struggled with a bit in the beginning because and with a bit in the beginning because and with a bit in the beginning because and that's why I did all this research on that's why I did all this research on that's why I did all this research on just watching winter swimmers in Denmark just watching winter swimmers in Denmark just watching winter swimmers in Denmark and as I told you I wasn't really a fan and as I told you I wasn't really a fan and as I told you I wasn't really a fan of the code myself I was just of the code myself I was just of the code myself I was just scientifically curious I think about the scientifically curious I think about the scientifically curious I think about the whole thing whole thing whole thing so um I wanted to find out what is the so um I wanted to find out what is the so um I wanted to find out what is the minimum dose how how with how little minimum dose how how with how little minimum dose how how with how little could I get away with this so if I was could I get away with this so if I was could I get away with this so if I was supposed to use this protocol myself supposed to use this protocol myself supposed to use this protocol myself I had to go with as little as possible I had to go with as little as possible I had to go with as little as possible so I I found some winter swimmers or I so I I found some winter swimmers or I so I I found some winter swimmers or I found out that mostly winter swimmers in found out that mostly winter swimmers in found out that mostly winter swimmers in Denmark who don't do this in an extreme Denmark who don't do this in an extreme Denmark who don't do this in an extreme way they go a couple of times a week and way they go a couple of times a week and way they go a couple of times a week and they only do short dips which is like they only do short dips which is like they only do short dips which is like one two minutes and then they go up and one two minutes and then they go up and one two minutes and then they go up and they go into the sauna and stay there

1:04they go into the sauna and stay there they go into the sauna and stay there for not that long either 10 15 minutes for not that long either 10 15 minutes for not that long either 10 15 minutes and then they go out again and then they and then they go out again and then they and then they go out again and then they take take another dip and I was like take take another dip and I was like take take another dip and I was like okay that seems and then I asked them okay that seems and then I asked them okay that seems and then I asked them why do you why do you do it this way why do you why do you do it this way why do you why do you do it this way right so first they're doing cold right right so first they're doing cold right right so first they're doing cold right cold so typically and you have some cold so typically and you have some cold so typically and you have some beautiful images inside of the book beautiful images inside of the book beautiful images inside of the book there there's these lakes that are there there there's these lakes that are there there there's these lakes that are there yeah right or it could be the ocean yeah right or it could be the ocean yeah right or it could be the ocean right and and people are dipping in right and and people are dipping in right and and people are dipping in there's these little carve outs they've there's these little carve outs they've there's these little carve outs they've carved out a bunch of ice for them to go carved out a bunch of ice for them to go carved out a bunch of ice for them to go in then they're going too hot but then in then they're going too hot but then in then they're going too hot but then interestingly and you'll explain more interestingly and you'll explain more interestingly and you'll explain more about this they're going back to cold about this they're going back to cold about this they're going back to cold yeah so they so they alternate between yeah so they so they alternate between yeah so they so they alternate between the cold and the heat as you just the cold and the heat as you just the cold and the heat as you just explained they start in the cold go into explained they start in the cold go into explained they start in the cold go into the Heat and some others do it the Heat and some others do it the Heat and some others do it differently but I I kind of put that differently but I I kind of put that differently but I I kind of put that protocol up because I wanted the outcome protocol up because I wanted the outcome protocol up because I wanted the outcome of increasing metabolism right right so of increasing metabolism right right so of increasing metabolism right right so um I wanted them to start off with the um I wanted them to start off with the um I wanted them to start off with the cold go into the heat the cold the Heat cold go into the heat the cold the Heat cold go into the heat the cold the Heat and then end on the cold because if my and then end on the cold because if my and then end on the cold because if my hypothesis was right then they should

1:05hypothesis was right then they should hypothesis was right then they should end on the cold to increase their end on the cold to increase their end on the cold to increase their metabolism by metabolism by metabolism by um forcing the body to heat itself up um forcing the body to heat itself up um forcing the body to heat itself up um and that is by activating the brown um and that is by activating the brown um and that is by activating the brown fat and forcing the brown fat to fat and forcing the brown fat to fat and forcing the brown fat to increase your heat from the inside and increase your heat from the inside and increase your heat from the inside and that was really important for me because that was really important for me because that was really important for me because that is going to increase the that is going to increase the that is going to increase the sensitivity of um sorry the efficiency sensitivity of um sorry the efficiency sensitivity of um sorry the efficiency of the brown fat cells if you just heat of the brown fat cells if you just heat of the brown fat cells if you just heat up by yourself and versus heating up in up by yourself and versus heating up in up by yourself and versus heating up in the sauna where's this heating up in the the sauna where's this heating up in the the sauna where's this heating up in the sauna or going directly home to take a sauna or going directly home to take a sauna or going directly home to take a hot air coat a warm shower and hot air coat a warm shower and hot air coat a warm shower and um so I re I wanted to recruit subjects um so I re I wanted to recruit subjects um so I re I wanted to recruit subjects who didn't do it on an extreme way and who didn't do it on an extreme way and who didn't do it on an extreme way and only did this a couple of times a week only did this a couple of times a week only did this a couple of times a week um and a lot of people did that so I had um and a lot of people did that so I had um and a lot of people did that so I had a lot of people signing up for my study a lot of people signing up for my study a lot of people signing up for my study and so I could easily match this to a and so I could easily match this to a and so I could easily match this to a control group which is they were matched control group which is they were matched control group which is they were matched on H and BMI Fitness level diet actually on H and BMI Fitness level diet actually on H and BMI Fitness level diet actually also also also um and um on age

1:06um and um on age um and um on age and gender so we did the studies on men and gender so we did the studies on men and gender so we did the studies on men who were on average 24 years old and so who were on average 24 years old and so who were on average 24 years old and so I wanted to study a younger group I wanted to study a younger group I wanted to study a younger group because then I the success rate of them because then I the success rate of them because then I the success rate of them having Brown fat was higher versus an having Brown fat was higher versus an having Brown fat was higher versus an older population who doesn't already older population who doesn't already older population who doesn't already have that much Brown fat to begin with have that much Brown fat to begin with have that much Brown fat to begin with and they might need a longer protocol to and they might need a longer protocol to and they might need a longer protocol to get that brown fat up before you could get that brown fat up before you could get that brown fat up before you could study them maybe and I was doing a study them maybe and I was doing a study them maybe and I was doing a concept concept concept um a concept study so a proof of concept um a concept study so a proof of concept um a concept study so a proof of concept and because there was nothing out there and because there was nothing out there and because there was nothing out there and and and and to get the funding also and and and and to get the funding also and and and and to get the funding also I needed to do like a proof of concept I needed to do like a proof of concept I needed to do like a proof of concept so I needed to study some who were all so I needed to study some who were all so I needed to study some who were all already doing winter swimming and met already doing winter swimming and met already doing winter swimming and met them with a control group to see if them with a control group to see if them with a control group to see if there were any difference between them there were any difference between them there were any difference between them so to make the difference between the so to make the difference between the so to make the difference between the groups bigger I need I needed a group groups bigger I need I needed a group groups bigger I need I needed a group who were already adapted to the cold who were already adapted to the cold who were already adapted to the cold um I figured so that is how it started um I figured so that is how it started um I figured so that is how it started so um the the control group is very

1:07so um the the control group is very so um the the control group is very matched to the winter swimming group matched to the winter swimming group matched to the winter swimming group um they were also the same Fitness level um they were also the same Fitness level um they were also the same Fitness level so they started out doing this protocol so they started out doing this protocol so they started out doing this protocol or just telling them how to do it but I or just telling them how to do it but I or just telling them how to do it but I didn't tell them how long that I was didn't tell them how long that I was didn't tell them how long that I was just observing and monitoring that and just observing and monitoring that and just observing and monitoring that and it ended up being 11 minutes per week it ended up being 11 minutes per week it ended up being 11 minutes per week um in the cold water and divided on two um in the cold water and divided on two um in the cold water and divided on two to three days and with each day they did to three days and with each day they did to three days and with each day they did three dips and entered on the cold and three dips and entered on the cold and three dips and entered on the cold and they also went into the sauna which was they also went into the sauna which was they also went into the sauna which was 57 minutes of sauna per week divided on 57 minutes of sauna per week divided on 57 minutes of sauna per week divided on two to three days so on the same day as two to three days so on the same day as two to three days so on the same day as the cold but um only with two visits so the cold but um only with two visits so the cold but um only with two visits so if you divide that up and you do this a if you divide that up and you do this a if you divide that up and you do this a couple of times a week that means you couple of times a week that means you couple of times a week that means you can do your coat dips for one to two can do your coat dips for one to two can do your coat dips for one to two minutes is enough per dip and also going minutes is enough per dip and also going minutes is enough per dip and also going into the sauna would be 10 to 15 minutes into the sauna would be 10 to 15 minutes into the sauna would be 10 to 15 minutes it's also enough it's also enough it's also enough very feasible very manageable I think so very feasible very manageable I think so very feasible very manageable I think so I think so even for an elderly

1:08I think so even for an elderly I think so even for an elderly population this would be feasible population this would be feasible population this would be feasible because it's not too much and if you because it's not too much and if you because it's not too much and if you don't suffer from heart diseases or don't suffer from heart diseases or don't suffer from heart diseases or unregulated high blood pressure then unregulated high blood pressure then unregulated high blood pressure then this is should be safe for you and just this is should be safe for you and just this is should be safe for you and just to add in you know you were studying to add in you know you were studying to add in you know you were studying younger men but very regularly in these younger men but very regularly in these younger men but very regularly in these winter swimmer groups which you were winter swimmer groups which you were winter swimmer groups which you were saying interestingly enough that people saying interestingly enough that people saying interestingly enough that people often refer to them as the happy Winter often refer to them as the happy Winter often refer to them as the happy Winter swimmers because they just have a swimmers because they just have a swimmers because they just have a general sense of happiness and general sense of happiness and general sense of happiness and playfulness there's a few photos inside playfulness there's a few photos inside playfulness there's a few photos inside of your book of them being very jovial of your book of them being very jovial of your book of them being very jovial and kind of wearing you know eccentric and kind of wearing you know eccentric and kind of wearing you know eccentric bathing suits like it's a it's a whole bathing suits like it's a it's a whole bathing suits like it's a it's a whole lifestyle right it's a whole like fun lifestyle right it's a whole like fun lifestyle right it's a whole like fun fun thing but um what I was mentioning fun thing but um what I was mentioning fun thing but um what I was mentioning is that even though you studied a is that even though you studied a is that even though you studied a younger population and mostly Men When younger population and mostly Men When younger population and mostly Men When You observe these winter swimmers and in You observe these winter swimmers and in You observe these winter swimmers and in Denmark around the world there's a lot Denmark around the world there's a lot Denmark around the world there's a lot of older people that are doing it too so of older people that are doing it too so of older people that are doing it too so this is really for some for anybody at this is really for some for anybody at this is really for some for anybody at really any age yes it is and and I think really any age yes it is and and I think really any age yes it is and and I think it's just important just to mention that it's just important just to mention that it's just important just to mention that that if in science we sometimes have to that if in science we sometimes have to that if in science we sometimes have to do like a very like um rigid protocol

1:09do like a very like um rigid protocol do like a very like um rigid protocol studying a certain group which sometimes studying a certain group which sometimes studying a certain group which sometimes can look like you have excluded some can look like you have excluded some can look like you have excluded some others but that is that that is just how others but that is that that is just how others but that is that that is just how science sometimes have to be done to be science sometimes have to be done to be science sometimes have to be done to be able to prove something then we can move able to prove something then we can move able to prove something then we can move on to the next question and I I think on to the next question and I I think on to the next question and I I think that it's it's very fair to ask why that it's it's very fair to ask why that it's it's very fair to ask why didn't I include women for example in didn't I include women for example in didn't I include women for example in the study and I really wanted to but the study and I really wanted to but the study and I really wanted to but um at this time we really we knew that um at this time we really we knew that um at this time we really we knew that women have more generally more Brown fat women have more generally more Brown fat women have more generally more Brown fat than men and they also have because of than men and they also have because of than men and they also have because of the the cyclists they have the hormones the the cyclists they have the hormones the the cyclists they have the hormones going up and and it's very really going up and and it's very really going up and and it's very really difficult at this time to compare men difficult at this time to compare men difficult at this time to compare men and women on this because we didn't and women on this because we didn't and women on this because we didn't really know whether this is going to really know whether this is going to really know whether this is going to make the difference between the groups make the difference between the groups make the difference between the groups and if you want to do a proof of concept and if you want to do a proof of concept and if you want to do a proof of concept study you need to go small because we study you need to go small because we study you need to go small because we wanted to you could go like in you can wanted to you could go like in you can wanted to you could go like in you can make a really big study right with a lot make a really big study right with a lot make a really big study right with a lot thousands of hundreds of people but then thousands of hundreds of people but then thousands of hundreds of people but then you don't measure as many things as we

1:10you don't measure as many things as we you don't measure as many things as we did so we could do a large study measure did so we could do a large study measure did so we could do a large study measure maybe one or two things or we could do a maybe one or two things or we could do a maybe one or two things or we could do a smaller study but but you can say smaller study but but you can say smaller study but but you can say explore more things and that is what we explore more things and that is what we explore more things and that is what we did actually so yeah yeah you did and did actually so yeah yeah you did and did actually so yeah yeah you did and again with this proof of concept study again with this proof of concept study again with this proof of concept study the goal would be to hopefully Inspire the goal would be to hopefully Inspire the goal would be to hopefully Inspire more people to be doing more people to be doing more people to be doing you know larger studies or maybe you know larger studies or maybe you know larger studies or maybe somebody might look at women or somebody somebody might look at women or somebody somebody might look at women or somebody might look at you know an older might look at you know an older might look at you know an older population but you really did find a lot population but you really did find a lot population but you really did find a lot of specifics that were there like one of of specifics that were there like one of of specifics that were there like one of the things that came out of it you know the things that came out of it you know the things that came out of it you know we talked about insulin sensitivity you we talked about insulin sensitivity you we talked about insulin sensitivity you used a glucose in addition to that you used a glucose in addition to that you used a glucose in addition to that you looked at better glucose response looked at better glucose response looked at better glucose response through glucose tolerance test yes right through glucose tolerance test yes right through glucose tolerance test yes right yeah and you also found that there was yeah and you also found that there was yeah and you also found that there was higher energy expenditure you know just higher energy expenditure you know just higher energy expenditure you know just in general like during the cold that in general like during the cold that in general like during the cold that they had so they're outputting more they had so they're outputting more they had so they're outputting more energy which means that they're probably energy which means that they're probably energy which means that they're probably also burning a little bit more calories also burning a little bit more calories also burning a little bit more calories is that fair to say yeah that's fair to is that fair to say yeah that's fair to is that fair to say yeah that's fair to say and it's not only only when they're say and it's not only only when they're say and it's not only only when they're in the water even when they're out it's in the water even when they're out it's in the water even when they're out it's also when they're out because they are

1:11also when they're out because they are also when they're out because they are increasing their metabolism by heating increasing their metabolism by heating increasing their metabolism by heating themselves up naturally which is I also themselves up naturally which is I also themselves up naturally which is I also have to mention that it's called the have to mention that it's called the have to mention that it's called the supereg principle and it's mentioned by supereg principle and it's mentioned by supereg principle and it's mentioned by it's named by a professor Andrew it's named by a professor Andrew it's named by a professor Andrew hooperman who is also the the host of hooperman who is also the the host of hooperman who is also the the host of The huberman Lab podcast fantastic he's The huberman Lab podcast fantastic he's The huberman Lab podcast fantastic he's been on here a couple times oh he has been on here a couple times oh he has been on here a couple times oh he has fantastic yeah he's a great he's great fantastic yeah he's a great he's great fantastic yeah he's a great he's great yeah exactly and he named this the super yeah exactly and he named this the super yeah exactly and he named this the super principle and it's so nice of him but principle and it's so nice of him but principle and it's so nice of him but this ending on the code is actually this ending on the code is actually this ending on the code is actually forcing your body to increase your forcing your body to increase your forcing your body to increase your metabolism hours after you go up so this metabolism hours after you go up so this metabolism hours after you go up so this is not just a training by going into the is not just a training by going into the is not just a training by going into the code for one or two minutes then people code for one or two minutes then people code for one or two minutes then people ask me oh is that enough but it's it ask me oh is that enough but it's it ask me oh is that enough but it's it depends on how you do it of course so if depends on how you do it of course so if depends on how you do it of course so if you keep yourself colder just keep you keep yourself colder just keep you keep yourself colder just keep moving afterwards that's also increasing moving afterwards that's also increasing moving afterwards that's also increasing your insulin sensitivity by moving your your insulin sensitivity by moving your your insulin sensitivity by moving your muscles and yeah just accept a little muscles and yeah just accept a little muscles and yeah just accept a little bit of shivering that you will have bit of shivering that you will have bit of shivering that you will have afterwards because that is really good afterwards because that is really good afterwards because that is really good for you that is also increasing your for you that is also increasing your for you that is also increasing your exercise and exercising your muscles exercise and exercising your muscles exercise and exercising your muscles yeah and to connect this together just yeah and to connect this together just yeah and to connect this together just because I think that that's really the

1:12because I think that that's really the because I think that that's really the magic of what you found is that in this magic of what you found is that in this magic of what you found is that in this 11 minutes of total exposure in a week 11 minutes of total exposure in a week 11 minutes of total exposure in a week right right right um that you found from the study and um that you found from the study and um that you found from the study and like the minimum viable dose to get like the minimum viable dose to get like the minimum viable dose to get these benefits that are there broken up these benefits that are there broken up these benefits that are there broken up over two to three you know days right over two to three you know days right over two to three you know days right and then you know in your study people and then you know in your study people and then you know in your study people were doing kind of multiple dips kind of were doing kind of multiple dips kind of were doing kind of multiple dips kind of getting in getting out going to heat but getting in getting out going to heat but getting in getting out going to heat but most importantly when you're ending on most importantly when you're ending on most importantly when you're ending on cold and again this the sober principle cold and again this the sober principle cold and again this the sober principle that you mentioned is letting your body that you mentioned is letting your body that you mentioned is letting your body naturally heat itself up don't don't try naturally heat itself up don't don't try naturally heat itself up don't don't try to force heating don't run to the heater to force heating don't run to the heater to force heating don't run to the heater don't jump in the sauna at the last don't jump in the sauna at the last don't jump in the sauna at the last stage let your body naturally heat up stage let your body naturally heat up stage let your body naturally heat up that's where the magic Is Gonna Come that's where the magic Is Gonna Come that's where the magic Is Gonna Come From yes exactly fascinating it's gonna From yes exactly fascinating it's gonna From yes exactly fascinating it's gonna it's gonna be hard in the beginning and it's gonna be hard in the beginning and it's gonna be hard in the beginning and and there are some people asking me and there are some people asking me and there are some people asking me isn't that a little bit extreme I never isn't that a little bit extreme I never isn't that a little bit extreme I never thought about it that way thought about it that way thought about it that way um I just as a I I just didn't have a um I just as a I I just didn't have a um I just as a I I just didn't have a um a sauna myself in the beginning first

1:13um a sauna myself in the beginning first um a sauna myself in the beginning first couple of years actually uh being a couple of years actually uh being a couple of years actually uh being a winter swimmer so I have done this winter swimmer so I have done this winter swimmer so I have done this myself heating up naturally and this is myself heating up naturally and this is myself heating up naturally and this is a little bit painful in the beginning a little bit painful in the beginning a little bit painful in the beginning just like starting out running for just like starting out running for just like starting out running for example you don't start with a marathon example you don't start with a marathon example you don't start with a marathon but when you start with two kilometers but when you start with two kilometers but when you start with two kilometers five kilometers it's gonna hurt a little five kilometers it's gonna hurt a little five kilometers it's gonna hurt a little bit that hermetic stress is painful a bit that hermetic stress is painful a bit that hermetic stress is painful a little bit it's it's it's natural so little bit it's it's it's natural so little bit it's it's it's natural so when you feel that ooh shivering oh it's when you feel that ooh shivering oh it's when you feel that ooh shivering oh it's cold and you oh you really want to jump cold and you oh you really want to jump cold and you oh you really want to jump into the hot shower just try and not to into the hot shower just try and not to into the hot shower just try and not to do that just tell yourself this is do that just tell yourself this is do that just tell yourself this is exercise this is really good for me just exercise this is really good for me just exercise this is really good for me just keep moving you can clean your home or keep moving you can clean your home or keep moving you can clean your home or you can go in the garden or just don't you can go in the garden or just don't you can go in the garden or just don't sit on the couch because that's when the sit on the couch because that's when the sit on the couch because that's when the Shivering will start them then it'll be Shivering will start them then it'll be Shivering will start them then it'll be colder and and it's all about a mindset colder and and it's all about a mindset colder and and it's all about a mindset as you've shared previously because if as you've shared previously because if as you've shared previously because if you think you think you think you know I've had friends who uh I've you know I've had friends who uh I've you know I've had friends who uh I've taken them to just down the street taken them to just down the street taken them to just down the street there's a place over here that I go to there's a place over here that I go to there's a place over here that I go to that has cryotherapy because my my cold that has cryotherapy because my my cold that has cryotherapy because my my cold Plunge in my house is not available Plunge in my house is not available Plunge in my house is not available right now I have to like clean it and do right now I have to like clean it and do right now I have to like clean it and do some other things and and whatnot but

1:14some other things and and whatnot but some other things and and whatnot but I'll take them to cryotherapy uh and I'll take them to cryotherapy uh and I'll take them to cryotherapy uh and they'll say you know I don't like to do they'll say you know I don't like to do they'll say you know I don't like to do it because I'm cold for a really long it because I'm cold for a really long it because I'm cold for a really long time afterwards and they think of that time afterwards and they think of that time afterwards and they think of that as a bad thing but imagine if we said I as a bad thing but imagine if we said I as a bad thing but imagine if we said I don't want to go to the gym because I'm don't want to go to the gym because I'm don't want to go to the gym because I'm sore afterwards but everybody sore afterwards but everybody sore afterwards but everybody understands that being a little bit of understands that being a little bit of understands that being a little bit of sore is part of the the gains that are sore is part of the the gains that are sore is part of the the gains that are there that's where some of that there that's where some of that there that's where some of that beneficial uh stress comes from on the beneficial uh stress comes from on the beneficial uh stress comes from on the body body body um another thing that you notice is that um another thing that you notice is that um another thing that you notice is that if I'm getting this right no adrenaline if I'm getting this right no adrenaline if I'm getting this right no adrenaline was sustained for hours for the people was sustained for hours for the people was sustained for hours for the people that so tell us why that's important and that so tell us why that's important and that so tell us why that's important and what you notice from that yeah so no what you notice from that yeah so no what you notice from that yeah so no adrenaline is the activator of your adrenaline is the activator of your adrenaline is the activator of your brown fat so your metabolism so no brown fat so your metabolism so no brown fat so your metabolism so no adrenaline increases by 2.5 fold at adrenaline increases by 2.5 fold at adrenaline increases by 2.5 fold at least when you're going to submit least when you're going to submit least when you're going to submit yourself up to the neck in cold water so yourself up to the neck in cold water so yourself up to the neck in cold water so and that's going to last for hours after and that's going to last for hours after and that's going to last for hours after you also go up especially if you end on you also go up especially if you end on you also go up especially if you end on the cold because the body is going to the cold because the body is going to the cold because the body is going to keep yourself keep the body in that a keep yourself keep the body in that a keep yourself keep the body in that a little bit of a fight and flight mode

1:15little bit of a fight and flight mode little bit of a fight and flight mode afterwards because you you need it to afterwards because you you need it to afterwards because you you need it to increase your or activate your brown fat increase your or activate your brown fat increase your or activate your brown fat and you can benefit from this by and you can benefit from this by and you can benefit from this by um because it gives you a focus it gives um because it gives you a focus it gives um because it gives you a focus it gives you drive and it gives you that energy you drive and it gives you that energy you drive and it gives you that energy to do whatever you want to do in your in to do whatever you want to do in your in to do whatever you want to do in your in your life so you don't have to fight for your life so you don't have to fight for your life so you don't have to fight for getting for example energy to do getting for example energy to do getting for example energy to do something because it's already just something because it's already just something because it's already just physically there in your body so if you physically there in your body so if you physically there in your body so if you lack energy and you lack yeah you can lack energy and you lack yeah you can lack energy and you lack yeah you can say drive you can use this as a way to say drive you can use this as a way to say drive you can use this as a way to kick start yourself or kick start your kick start yourself or kick start your kick start yourself or kick start your brain and your body just just do it all brain and your body just just do it all brain and your body just just do it all you have to do is decide to do it and you have to do is decide to do it and you have to do is decide to do it and then when you do that you have then when you do that you have then when you do that you have everything going in your body it's gonna everything going in your body it's gonna everything going in your body it's gonna help you in that way help you in that way help you in that way uh we mentioned this at the beginning to uh we mentioned this at the beginning to uh we mentioned this at the beginning to the dopamine you notice that they didn't the dopamine you notice that they didn't the dopamine you notice that they didn't have a crash of that dopamine and it was have a crash of that dopamine and it was have a crash of that dopamine and it was sustained for a long time I I know I sustained for a long time I I know I sustained for a long time I I know I mentioned in the beginning but that's mentioned in the beginning but that's mentioned in the beginning but that's such an important thing in this world of such an important thing in this world of such an important thing in this world of short-term pleasure seeking and so many short-term pleasure seeking and so many short-term pleasure seeking and so many things fighting for our attention during things fighting for our attention during things fighting for our attention during the day that give us that little

1:16the day that give us that little the day that give us that little pleasure hit a like on social media pleasure hit a like on social media pleasure hit a like on social media people feeling you know addicted to people feeling you know addicted to people feeling you know addicted to shopping online or you know even sweet shopping online or you know even sweet shopping online or you know even sweet things sweet things give us this little things sweet things give us this little things sweet things give us this little hit of dopamine but you noticed that hit of dopamine but you noticed that hit of dopamine but you noticed that there was this dopamine uh increase that there was this dopamine uh increase that there was this dopamine uh increase that was there and it lasted it was a slow was there and it lasted it was a slow was there and it lasted it was a slow sort of release over a while was that in sort of release over a while was that in sort of release over a while was that in your study or was that with other your study or was that with other your study or was that with other studies this is with other studies my studies this is with other studies my studies this is with other studies my apologies for that no no it's fine it's apologies for that no no it's fine it's apologies for that no no it's fine it's fine it's not um it's not measured in my fine it's not um it's not measured in my fine it's not um it's not measured in my studies the dopamine um but we can see studies the dopamine um but we can see studies the dopamine um but we can see from other studies that dopamine from other studies that dopamine from other studies that dopamine increases increases increases um and it also lasts for hours um and it also lasts for hours um and it also lasts for hours afterwards so we can definitely look at afterwards so we can definitely look at afterwards so we can definitely look at into what does dopamine do for the body into what does dopamine do for the body into what does dopamine do for the body environmental health and as you just environmental health and as you just environmental health and as you just mentioned mentioned mentioned um the the fast dopamine kicks that we um the the fast dopamine kicks that we um the the fast dopamine kicks that we get from being on social media and for get from being on social media and for get from being on social media and for eating sweets for example eating sweets for example eating sweets for example um snacking and yeah other rewards um snacking and yeah other rewards um snacking and yeah other rewards seeking behaviors is what's dominating

1:17seeking behaviors is what's dominating seeking behaviors is what's dominating in our modern society today so whenever in our modern society today so whenever in our modern society today so whenever we seek this a kind of rewarding things we seek this a kind of rewarding things we seek this a kind of rewarding things that we do behaviors and that is going that we do behaviors and that is going that we do behaviors and that is going to give us more crashes during our day to give us more crashes during our day to give us more crashes during our day so every time we seek this we should so every time we seek this we should so every time we seek this we should think about that we will have a downfall think about that we will have a downfall think about that we will have a downfall we'll have a down period at some times we'll have a down period at some times we'll have a down period at some times and it's pretty much right after as soon and it's pretty much right after as soon and it's pretty much right after as soon as we shut down the social media we can as we shut down the social media we can as we shut down the social media we can definitely see this in kids as well they definitely see this in kids as well they definitely see this in kids as well they crash afterwards crash afterwards crash afterwards um but when we do cold immersion and and um but when we do cold immersion and and um but when we do cold immersion and and also actually going into the heat we also actually going into the heat we also actually going into the heat we could see that this increase in dopamine could see that this increase in dopamine could see that this increase in dopamine and no adrenaline and also endorphins and no adrenaline and also endorphins and no adrenaline and also endorphins It's Gonna Last for hours afterwards so It's Gonna Last for hours afterwards so It's Gonna Last for hours afterwards so you don't have a crash but you still you you don't have a crash but you still you you don't have a crash but you still you just have the benefit to to go out just have the benefit to to go out just have the benefit to to go out through the day and it fits the through the day and it fits the through the day and it fits the Circadian rhythm of of these Circadian rhythm of of these Circadian rhythm of of these neurotransmitters as well so neurotransmitters as well so neurotransmitters as well so nature is really clever in this way it nature is really clever in this way it nature is really clever in this way it has really thought about or it just has really thought about or it just has really thought about or it just happened actually that that we benefit

1:18happened actually that that we benefit happened actually that that we benefit from praying out in nature and and we from praying out in nature and and we from praying out in nature and and we were born into this so it makes sense were born into this so it makes sense were born into this so it makes sense that nature and code and heat is what we that nature and code and heat is what we that nature and code and heat is what we grew up in we were made in this so it's grew up in we were made in this so it's grew up in we were made in this so it's in our DNA and it kind of resets our our in our DNA and it kind of resets our our in our DNA and it kind of resets our our cells in every way both mentally and cells in every way both mentally and cells in every way both mentally and physically even though there's days physically even though there's days physically even though there's days where I just feel like a little sluggish where I just feel like a little sluggish where I just feel like a little sluggish maybe it was a stressful week and it's maybe it was a stressful week and it's maybe it was a stressful week and it's like I don't feel that great you know like I don't feel that great you know like I don't feel that great you know maybe I didn't sleep as good maybe I didn't sleep as good maybe I didn't sleep as good and I go do cold immersion and it just and I go do cold immersion and it just and I go do cold immersion and it just feels like it's like I'm sure there's feels like it's like I'm sure there's feels like it's like I'm sure there's probably some pharmaceutical companies probably some pharmaceutical companies probably some pharmaceutical companies out there trying to figure out how they out there trying to figure out how they out there trying to figure out how they could recreate this but again we have it could recreate this but again we have it could recreate this but again we have it inside of us right we don't need that inside of us right we don't need that inside of us right we don't need that drug maybe one day we'll have it without drug maybe one day we'll have it without drug maybe one day we'll have it without side effects I don't think so because side effects I don't think so because side effects I don't think so because nothing in life you know is obtained for nothing in life you know is obtained for nothing in life you know is obtained for free without some sort of benefit that's free without some sort of benefit that's free without some sort of benefit that's there or some sort of challenge so you there or some sort of challenge so you there or some sort of challenge so you know that's how I've used it is that I know that's how I've used it is that I know that's how I've used it is that I go and do it even though I'm like I go and do it even though I'm like I go and do it even though I'm like I don't want to get cold today I don't don't want to get cold today I don't don't want to get cold today I don't feel like it but I'm like all right I feel like it but I'm like all right I feel like it but I'm like all right I have a buddy I do it with a friend of have a buddy I do it with a friend of have a buddy I do it with a friend of mine his name is Mark you're actually

1:19mine his name is Mark you're actually mine his name is Mark you're actually going to meet him tonight at dinner okay going to meet him tonight at dinner okay going to meet him tonight at dinner okay guys so we do it together and we guys so we do it together and we guys so we do it together and we encourage each other and it's like hey encourage each other and it's like hey encourage each other and it's like hey man how are you yeah it's cold outside man how are you yeah it's cold outside man how are you yeah it's cold outside it's raining it's you know we don't feel it's raining it's you know we don't feel it's raining it's you know we don't feel like doing it then we do it we're like like doing it then we do it we're like like doing it then we do it we're like let's go in fact you notice that a lot let's go in fact you notice that a lot let's go in fact you notice that a lot of the servers were sort of making these of the servers were sort of making these of the servers were sort of making these like sort of Tarzan type voices after like sort of Tarzan type voices after like sort of Tarzan type voices after they go and do this cold plunge because they go and do this cold plunge because they go and do this cold plunge because they feel so activated and ready to take they feel so activated and ready to take they feel so activated and ready to take on the day and and to take on life I on the day and and to take on life I on the day and and to take on life I think that's really great and that's think that's really great and that's think that's really great and that's what I feel sometimes too I think it's what I feel sometimes too I think it's what I feel sometimes too I think it's it's a I think it's brilliant I think it's a I think it's brilliant I think it's a I think it's brilliant I think and this is universal I I when I did my and this is universal I I when I did my and this is universal I I when I did my studies I thought of this as very much a studies I thought of this as very much a studies I thought of this as very much a Nordic thing very much only Scandinavia Nordic thing very much only Scandinavia Nordic thing very much only Scandinavia and it's I know it's very predominantly and it's I know it's very predominantly and it's I know it's very predominantly there but I found out later that this there but I found out later that this there but I found out later that this isn't the whole world and everybody isn't the whole world and everybody isn't the whole world and everybody feels kind of like the same way about it feels kind of like the same way about it feels kind of like the same way about it they feel this confidence afterwards they feel this confidence afterwards they feel this confidence afterwards they get this energy and they get this they get this energy and they get this they get this energy and they get this feeling of they can conquer the world feeling of they can conquer the world feeling of they can conquer the world almost like Tarson and especially men almost like Tarson and especially men almost like Tarson and especially men are like yeah I can do this and and I I are like yeah I can do this and and I I are like yeah I can do this and and I I find that's very interesting what is find that's very interesting what is find that's very interesting what is actually happening there and I just want actually happening there and I just want actually happening there and I just want to mention a really interesting study

1:20to mention a really interesting study to mention a really interesting study that was published here in in January that was published here in in January that was published here in in January 2023 it's from a research group in the 2023 it's from a research group in the 2023 it's from a research group in the UK where they have looked into UK where they have looked into UK where they have looked into um the psychological like traits uh in um the psychological like traits uh in um the psychological like traits uh in in the in the in the brain what happens in the in the in the brain what happens in the in the in the brain what happens what kind of centers are activated when what kind of centers are activated when what kind of centers are activated when you submit it into cold water and they you submit it into cold water and they you submit it into cold water and they found that after um found that after um found that after um after exposing people to cold water they after exposing people to cold water they after exposing people to cold water they change in the positive mood they have so change in the positive mood they have so change in the positive mood they have so in the traits so they felt after a month in the traits so they felt after a month in the traits so they felt after a month they felt more confident they felt this they felt more confident they felt this they felt more confident they felt this energy and also they felt less anxious energy and also they felt less anxious energy and also they felt less anxious afterwards so they have this afterwards so they have this afterwards so they have this um mood pattern that they explored in um mood pattern that they explored in um mood pattern that they explored in this study so psychological traits so I this study so psychological traits so I this study so psychological traits so I think it's very interesting that this is think it's very interesting that this is think it's very interesting that this is also what we see so very Universal not also what we see so very Universal not also what we see so very Universal not only for Denmark or Scandinavia only for only for Denmark or Scandinavia only for only for Denmark or Scandinavia only for men it's also for women so this men it's also for women so this men it's also for women so this confidence that people feel afterwards

1:21confidence that people feel afterwards confidence that people feel afterwards and and that increases they can people and and that increases they can people and and that increases they can people can use this it's a force it's like can use this it's a force it's like can use this it's a force it's like magic you can use this in your everyday magic you can use this in your everyday magic you can use this in your everyday life you can go out and you can life you can go out and you can life you can go out and you can have more confidence when you go into an have more confidence when you go into an have more confidence when you go into an interview or an exam or whatever you interview or an exam or whatever you interview or an exam or whatever you find this could be a little bit find this could be a little bit find this could be a little bit stressful for you with that confidence stressful for you with that confidence stressful for you with that confidence and and and you you would lower your stress for you you would lower your stress for you you would lower your stress for doing everything that you might find doing everything that you might find doing everything that you might find stressful before that so with more stressful before that so with more stressful before that so with more confidence we can we can do more I think confidence we can we can do more I think confidence we can we can do more I think so it's very important I think yeah I've so it's very important I think yeah I've so it's very important I think yeah I've heard this uh you know I would share heard this uh you know I would share heard this uh you know I would share this quote with my men's group who's this quote with my men's group who's this quote with my men's group who's also into you know cold therapy and I also into you know cold therapy and I also into you know cold therapy and I would say like you know either you kick would say like you know either you kick would say like you know either you kick your butt right like either you kick your butt right like either you kick your butt right like either you kick your butt or life will kick your butt your butt or life will kick your butt your butt or life will kick your butt and life is gonna kick your butt anyway and life is gonna kick your butt anyway and life is gonna kick your butt anyway yeah but if you do it first you just yeah but if you do it first you just yeah but if you do it first you just have a little bit more resilience in it have a little bit more resilience in it have a little bit more resilience in it yes and it's the reason we have to do yes and it's the reason we have to do yes and it's the reason we have to do tough things tough things we have to tough things tough things we have to tough things tough things we have to lift heavy things we have to put these lift heavy things we have to put these lift heavy things we have to put these positive stresses on our body it makes

1:22positive stresses on our body it makes positive stresses on our body it makes us more resilient and also I think our us more resilient and also I think our us more resilient and also I think our nervous system is like you know these nervous system is like you know these nervous system is like you know these things that are in my head that I'm just things that are in my head that I'm just things that are in my head that I'm just worried about this email from my boss or worried about this email from my boss or worried about this email from my boss or this stressful situation that's there this stressful situation that's there this stressful situation that's there it's not that they're not there it's it's not that they're not there it's it's not that they're not there it's just they don't feel as big of a threat just they don't feel as big of a threat just they don't feel as big of a threat when we go through things like cold when we go through things like cold when we go through things like cold therapy and hot therapy like our body therapy and hot therapy like our body therapy and hot therapy like our body just feels and our nervous system feels just feels and our nervous system feels just feels and our nervous system feels more ready to take those things things more ready to take those things things more ready to take those things things on exactly exactly and I think you said on exactly exactly and I think you said on exactly exactly and I think you said it very right there so mental mental it very right there so mental mental it very right there so mental mental stress is what we have today not not any stress is what we have today not not any stress is what we have today not not any physical stress it's too little physical physical stress it's too little physical physical stress it's too little physical stress and and I think that the reason stress and and I think that the reason stress and and I think that the reason why people are uh try are not really why people are uh try are not really why people are uh try are not really Keen to go into the cold it's also it's Keen to go into the cold it's also it's Keen to go into the cold it's also it's very present when you are there right very present when you are there right very present when you are there right you feel the pain right away and you you feel the pain right away and you you feel the pain right away and you don't feel the stress dripping during don't feel the stress dripping during don't feel the stress dripping during the day like you do this kind of modern the day like you do this kind of modern the day like you do this kind of modern lifestyle stress that we have but this lifestyle stress that we have but this lifestyle stress that we have but this kind of stress going submerging yourself kind of stress going submerging yourself kind of stress going submerging yourself into the cold is present right away so into the cold is present right away so into the cold is present right away so you feel as the pain right away but it's you feel as the pain right away but it's you feel as the pain right away but it's very short but when you do that and you

1:23very short but when you do that and you very short but when you do that and you go up afterwards you will have a pain go up afterwards you will have a pain go up afterwards you will have a pain relief almost and especially mentally I relief almost and especially mentally I relief almost and especially mentally I think so that's gonna wipe out anything think so that's gonna wipe out anything think so that's gonna wipe out anything you are worried about all the stress for you are worried about all the stress for you are worried about all the stress for emails emails emails um your boss being after you or whatever um your boss being after you or whatever um your boss being after you or whatever all the worries would be gone when you all the worries would be gone when you all the worries would be gone when you submerge yourself into the code and then submerge yourself into the code and then submerge yourself into the code and then when you go up afterwards and I think when you go up afterwards and I think when you go up afterwards and I think this is the reason why people get so this is the reason why people get so this is the reason why people get so happy afterwards because you have all happy afterwards because you have all happy afterwards because you have all these neurotransmitters going in your these neurotransmitters going in your these neurotransmitters going in your brain after your your dip and you then brain after your your dip and you then brain after your your dip and you then will return of course to your worries will return of course to your worries will return of course to your worries but then you will see it in another but then you will see it in another but then you will see it in another perspective because you have a more perspective because you have a more perspective because you have a more positive mindset you wrote it so positive mindset you wrote it so positive mindset you wrote it so beautifully in the beginning of the book beautifully in the beginning of the book beautifully in the beginning of the book this is page 26 in the in the this is page 26 in the in the this is page 26 in the in the introductory section about you know why introductory section about you know why introductory section about you know why should we swim in the winter you wrote should we swim in the winter you wrote should we swim in the winter you wrote the shock of the cold water demands full the shock of the cold water demands full the shock of the cold water demands full attention from our body and mind to attention from our body and mind to attention from our body and mind to survive because the mind interprets the survive because the mind interprets the survive because the mind interprets the Cold Water Swimming as a Cold Water Swimming as a Cold Water Swimming as a life-threatening situation and even life-threatening situation and even life-threatening situation and even again I just want to say it again again I just want to say it again again I just want to say it again because there's a lot of you know

1:24because there's a lot of you know because there's a lot of you know propaganda that's out there it's fading propaganda that's out there it's fading propaganda that's out there it's fading away where people will make you be more away where people will make you be more away where people will make you be more worried about cold water exposure in worried about cold water exposure in worried about cold water exposure in fact Tessa there was an article that I fact Tessa there was an article that I fact Tessa there was an article that I asked you to just bring up as an example asked you to just bring up as an example asked you to just bring up as an example you know I'm not trying to throw the you know I'm not trying to throw the you know I'm not trying to throw the American Heart Association under the bus American Heart Association under the bus American Heart Association under the bus but this is an example of some of the but this is an example of some of the but this is an example of some of the proper candidates out there it's the proper candidates out there it's the proper candidates out there it's the title is you're not a polar bear the title is you're not a polar bear the title is you're not a polar bear the pull the plunge into cold water comes pull the plunge into cold water comes pull the plunge into cold water comes with health risks and if you scroll down with health risks and if you scroll down with health risks and if you scroll down and there's this quote that's there from and there's this quote that's there from and there's this quote that's there from this Doctor Who I'm sure is well-meaning this Doctor Who I'm sure is well-meaning this Doctor Who I'm sure is well-meaning and like a lot of things that are out and like a lot of things that are out and like a lot of things that are out there things get blown out of proportion there things get blown out of proportion there things get blown out of proportion people don't know the research they also people don't know the research they also people don't know the research they also see maybe or read about one or two cases see maybe or read about one or two cases see maybe or read about one or two cases or instances that things don't go well or instances that things don't go well or instances that things don't go well so yeah it says the doctor over here so yeah it says the doctor over here so yeah it says the doctor over here says that cold water shock can be says that cold water shock can be says that cold water shock can be dangerous he's a director of dangerous he's a director of dangerous he's a director of preventative Cardiology at Brigham and preventative Cardiology at Brigham and preventative Cardiology at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston whether Women's Hospital in Boston whether Women's Hospital in Boston whether they're health benefits or not is not they're health benefits or not is not they're health benefits or not is not clear has not been established and I clear has not been established and I clear has not been established and I think that a lot of things that are out think that a lot of things that are out think that a lot of things that are out there because people will talk about there because people will talk about there because people will talk about doing cold water immersion with your doing cold water immersion with your doing cold water immersion with your friends and sometimes the immediate friends and sometimes the immediate friends and sometimes the immediate reaction people said I don't know that reaction people said I don't know that reaction people said I don't know that that sounds dangerous or I read this that sounds dangerous or I read this that sounds dangerous or I read this title of some article it didn't go into title of some article it didn't go into title of some article it didn't go into it a lot of people are just not aware of

1:25it a lot of people are just not aware of it a lot of people are just not aware of the research that's out there and again the research that's out there and again the research that's out there and again like anything you know you can drown in like anything you know you can drown in like anything you know you can drown in a bath that normal temperature water you a bath that normal temperature water you a bath that normal temperature water you have to have some of the basic Common have to have some of the basic Common have to have some of the basic Common Sense precautions but this fear that we Sense precautions but this fear that we Sense precautions but this fear that we have you know I really hope that we kind have you know I really hope that we kind have you know I really hope that we kind of set that to a side a little bit and of set that to a side a little bit and of set that to a side a little bit and otherwise we'd be missing out on so many otherwise we'd be missing out on so many otherwise we'd be missing out on so many of the benefits yes that that people of the benefits yes that that people of the benefits yes that that people could could um experience but one of those benefits um experience but one of those benefits um experience but one of those benefits being being being it's such a shock to your body and even it's such a shock to your body and even it's such a shock to your body and even though your body feels like it's dying though your body feels like it's dying though your body feels like it's dying which is kind of an extreme thing but which is kind of an extreme thing but which is kind of an extreme thing but internally there's this feel of like internally there's this feel of like internally there's this feel of like whoa whoa whoa what's going on whoa whoa whoa what's going on whoa whoa whoa what's going on it forces you into the present moment it forces you into the present moment it forces you into the present moment exactly and that's exactly what you were exactly and that's exactly what you were exactly and that's exactly what you were talking about yes so I know that was a talking about yes so I know that was a talking about yes so I know that was a little bit of a rant but I feel like little bit of a rant but I feel like little bit of a rant but I feel like it's important to to address yeah I it's important to to address yeah I it's important to to address yeah I think I think also well fear has a think I think also well fear has a think I think also well fear has a strong voice right in your mind so strong voice right in your mind so strong voice right in your mind so um and there's also and it comes from um and there's also and it comes from um and there's also and it comes from that as well when when people write that as well when when people write that as well when when people write about this also just the knowledge has

1:26about this also just the knowledge has about this also just the knowledge has to get out and it takes a while it takes to get out and it takes a while it takes to get out and it takes a while it takes a while it takes a while for people to a while it takes a while for people to a while it takes a while for people to to get notice this and notice the to get notice this and notice the to get notice this and notice the science of course you can you can expect science of course you can you can expect science of course you can you can expect all cardiologists to be completely aware all cardiologists to be completely aware all cardiologists to be completely aware of the new science and also connecting of the new science and also connecting of the new science and also connecting the dots with the older science because the dots with the older science because the dots with the older science because that is it takes a while to get through that is it takes a while to get through that is it takes a while to get through all that literature and understanding it all that literature and understanding it all that literature and understanding it and there's no drug company that's there and there's no drug company that's there and there's no drug company that's there trying to educate them promoted promoted trying to educate them promoted promoted trying to educate them promoted promoted so unless if they have a genuine so unless if they have a genuine so unless if they have a genuine research or unless if they're fans of Dr research or unless if they're fans of Dr research or unless if they're fans of Dr Andrew huberman or Dr wrong and Andrew huberman or Dr wrong and Andrew huberman or Dr wrong and Chatterjee and listening to their Chatterjee and listening to their Chatterjee and listening to their podcast which I'm seeing a lot with the podcast which I'm seeing a lot with the podcast which I'm seeing a lot with the younger generation you know I mentioned younger generation you know I mentioned younger generation you know I mentioned to my brother-in-law as a cardiologist to my brother-in-law as a cardiologist to my brother-in-law as a cardiologist he loves to just stay on the latest and he loves to just stay on the latest and he loves to just stay on the latest and there's this whole new group of people there's this whole new group of people there's this whole new group of people and I say young but there's people of and I say young but there's people of and I say young but there's people of all age that are youthful minded yeah all age that are youthful minded yeah all age that are youthful minded yeah they're open-minded researchers they're open-minded researchers they're open-minded researchers practitioners Physicians who are like practitioners Physicians who are like practitioners Physicians who are like okay much like you in the beginning of okay much like you in the beginning of okay much like you in the beginning of your career you were saying that you your career you were saying that you your career you were saying that you were working in the hospital was it and were working in the hospital was it and were working in the hospital was it and you were feeling like by the time that you were feeling like by the time that you were feeling like by the time that we're helping them it's too late yeah

1:27we're helping them it's too late yeah we're helping them it's too late yeah there's a crisis yeah what can we do to there's a crisis yeah what can we do to there's a crisis yeah what can we do to have people in a way yes you need a have people in a way yes you need a have people in a way yes you need a doctor and everybody should have access doctor and everybody should have access doctor and everybody should have access to a doctor but in a way you become a to a doctor but in a way you become a to a doctor but in a way you become a little bit of your own doctor by doing little bit of your own doctor by doing little bit of your own doctor by doing the things that are safe at home the things that are safe at home the things that are safe at home preventatively that anybody can do and preventatively that anybody can do and preventatively that anybody can do and anybody can access exactly and I think anybody can access exactly and I think anybody can access exactly and I think it's also of course it's very important it's also of course it's very important it's also of course it's very important also to talk about the cold cold water also to talk about the cold cold water also to talk about the cold cold water as something that if you be you should as something that if you be you should as something that if you be you should be mindful around how you do it and that be mindful around how you do it and that be mindful around how you do it and that is also why we are debating also how is also why we are debating also how is also why we are debating also how much and how long and what is healthy much and how long and what is healthy much and how long and what is healthy and what is healthy stress that is why and what is healthy stress that is why and what is healthy stress that is why I'm micro stressing as I call it micro I'm micro stressing as I call it micro I'm micro stressing as I call it micro stressing is is stressing the body in a stressing is is stressing the body in a stressing is is stressing the body in a healthy way and not overdoing this right healthy way and not overdoing this right healthy way and not overdoing this right and that is possible definitely I'm sure and that is possible definitely I'm sure and that is possible definitely I'm sure this is possible because there's those this is possible because there's those this is possible because there's those there's this um scientist very famous there's this um scientist very famous there's this um scientist very famous scientist Hans silly who discovered the scientist Hans silly who discovered the scientist Hans silly who discovered the stress syndrome back in stress syndrome back in stress syndrome back in 1936. he published this in nature 1936. he published this in nature 1936. he published this in nature magazine and um magazine and um magazine and um so one of the best peer-reviewed

1:28so one of the best peer-reviewed so one of the best peer-reviewed magazines in in science so he published magazines in in science so he published magazines in in science so he published this because he discovered that if you this because he discovered that if you this because he discovered that if you expose your body or cells to um a expose your body or cells to um a expose your body or cells to um a stressor then you will have an acute stressor then you will have an acute stressor then you will have an acute response but in the next phase if the if response but in the next phase if the if response but in the next phase if the if the the stressor is still there it will the the stressor is still there it will the the stressor is still there it will create a resilience in the cells and create a resilience in the cells and create a resilience in the cells and they will build itself stronger so but they will build itself stronger so but they will build itself stronger so but if you keep exposing your body or your if you keep exposing your body or your if you keep exposing your body or your cells to that stressor it will go into cells to that stressor it will go into cells to that stressor it will go into phase three which will then it would phase three which will then it would phase three which will then it would exhaust the cell and then it will age exhaust the cell and then it will age exhaust the cell and then it will age faster and then it will yeah age faster faster and then it will yeah age faster faster and then it will yeah age faster but if you stay in phase two which is a but if you stay in phase two which is a but if you stay in phase two which is a healthy stress the ooh stress which is healthy stress the ooh stress which is healthy stress the ooh stress which is also called then oh stress okay yeah so also called then oh stress okay yeah so also called then oh stress okay yeah so that is the healthy stress so micro that is the healthy stress so micro that is the healthy stress so micro stressing stressing stressing um or homies is the process in the cell um or homies is the process in the cell um or homies is the process in the cell so that's gonna create resilience in so that's gonna create resilience in so that's gonna create resilience in this in the cells and it will repair the this in the cells and it will repair the this in the cells and it will repair the cells and it will cells and it will cells and it will um prolong the life of the cell so it um prolong the life of the cell so it um prolong the life of the cell so it will actually make the cells younger in

1:29will actually make the cells younger in will actually make the cells younger in that way you will keep yourself that way you will keep yourself that way you will keep yourself healthier so that is because of the the healthier so that is because of the the healthier so that is because of the the heat shock proteins building up inside heat shock proteins building up inside heat shock proteins building up inside of the the cells are repairing the of the the cells are repairing the of the the cells are repairing the proteins in the cells so they will live proteins in the cells so they will live proteins in the cells so they will live longer but if you then overdo it and longer but if you then overdo it and longer but if you then overdo it and that's just back to what you just said that's just back to what you just said that's just back to what you just said with this um this article you you found with this um this article you you found with this um this article you you found online is that if you overdo it you can online is that if you overdo it you can online is that if you overdo it you can definitely harm the body also so it's definitely harm the body also so it's definitely harm the body also so it's it's also a question about finding that it's also a question about finding that it's also a question about finding that balance finding that balance that will balance finding that balance that will balance finding that balance that will keep your body in in homeostasis so the keep your body in in homeostasis so the keep your body in in homeostasis so the healthy kind of stress so that is what healthy kind of stress so that is what healthy kind of stress so that is what we are looking into but I think that 11 we are looking into but I think that 11 we are looking into but I think that 11 minutes per week and if you can stay minutes per week and if you can stay minutes per week and if you can stay there or around that a number then you there or around that a number then you there or around that a number then you are on The Sweet Spot on the sweet side are on The Sweet Spot on the sweet side are on The Sweet Spot on the sweet side of it yeah absolutely so let's dig into of it yeah absolutely so let's dig into of it yeah absolutely so let's dig into that a little bit you know we've talked that a little bit you know we've talked that a little bit you know we've talked about these different ways that people about these different ways that people about these different ways that people can begin right so in a world of working can begin right so in a world of working can begin right so in a world of working yourself up to right we're really yourself up to right we're really yourself up to right we're really talking about uh cold submersion which talking about uh cold submersion which talking about uh cold submersion which again in the book it's called like again in the book it's called like again in the book it's called like winter swimming because that's what the

1:30winter swimming because that's what the winter swimming because that's what the folks were doing and folks were doing and folks were doing and but but what you found and extrapolated but but what you found and extrapolated but but what you found and extrapolated in is that in is that in is that um being submersion water which means um being submersion water which means um being submersion water which means your neck down right you don't have to your neck down right you don't have to your neck down right you don't have to put your head under the water you keep put your head under the water you keep put your head under the water you keep your head above the water and we refer your head above the water and we refer your head above the water and we refer to it multiple times but this 11 minutes to it multiple times but this 11 minutes to it multiple times but this 11 minutes total exposure in a week that could be total exposure in a week that could be total exposure in a week that could be broken up into you know two or three broken up into you know two or three broken up into you know two or three different days different days different days you're you also I heard you mentioned you're you also I heard you mentioned you're you also I heard you mentioned that the you know everybody's asking how that the you know everybody's asking how that the you know everybody's asking how long so that kind of addresses the long so that kind of addresses the long so that kind of addresses the minimum dose and then people are asking minimum dose and then people are asking minimum dose and then people are asking how cold which is a spectrum but how cold which is a spectrum but how cold which is a spectrum but generally you've said extrapolated to generally you've said extrapolated to generally you've said extrapolated to Fahrenheit it's it's about 59 degrees Fahrenheit it's it's about 59 degrees Fahrenheit it's it's about 59 degrees right starting at 59 degrees and lower right starting at 59 degrees and lower right starting at 59 degrees and lower is where those benefits come from is is where those benefits come from is is where those benefits come from is that correct yeah okay great so now we that correct yeah okay great so now we that correct yeah okay great so now we know how long which is the 11 minutes know how long which is the 11 minutes know how long which is the 11 minutes broken up into you know two to three broken up into you know two to three broken up into you know two to three days in a week and how um cold is we're days in a week and how um cold is we're days in a week and how um cold is we're looking at that 59 degrees and lower now looking at that 59 degrees and lower now looking at that 59 degrees and lower now here in the U.S you know if people are here in the U.S you know if people are here in the U.S you know if people are landlocked or they're living in the you landlocked or they're living in the you landlocked or they're living in the you know middle of the country they may not

1:31know middle of the country they may not know middle of the country they may not have access to colder temperature Waters have access to colder temperature Waters have access to colder temperature Waters but even then sometimes people have but even then sometimes people have but even then sometimes people have lakes or other things like that there's lakes or other things like that there's lakes or other things like that there's a big movement of these um ice baths a big movement of these um ice baths a big movement of these um ice baths that people do but even if you have a that people do but even if you have a that people do but even if you have a normal bath in your house you're saying normal bath in your house you're saying normal bath in your house you're saying that you can take a cold bath yeah that that you can take a cold bath yeah that that you can take a cold bath yeah that the faucet the water from the faucet the faucet the water from the faucet the faucet the water from the faucet even if it doesn't hit that 59 degrees even if it doesn't hit that 59 degrees even if it doesn't hit that 59 degrees yet it could be a good starting place yet it could be a good starting place yet it could be a good starting place because at least it's getting your body because at least it's getting your body because at least it's getting your body more ready for colder temperatures right more ready for colder temperatures right more ready for colder temperatures right and I think part of why I'm bringing and I think part of why I'm bringing and I think part of why I'm bringing that up is that we're not asking people that up is that we're not asking people that up is that we're not asking people to be in you know 30 degrees freezing to be in you know 30 degrees freezing to be in you know 30 degrees freezing water right even 59 degrees is enough to water right even 59 degrees is enough to water right even 59 degrees is enough to get started right so let's talk about get started right so let's talk about get started right so let's talk about some of those so the first one that some of those so the first one that some of those so the first one that people can do people can do people can do is if they have a bath at home they can is if they have a bath at home they can is if they have a bath at home they can get you know get that temperature you get you know get that temperature you get you know get that temperature you know starting at whatever is the coldest know starting at whatever is the coldest know starting at whatever is the coldest it can do and then if you want to add a it can do and then if you want to add a it can do and then if you want to add a little bit of ice to it you can kind of little bit of ice to it you can kind of little bit of ice to it you can kind of chill it down to that 59 degrees there's chill it down to that 59 degrees there's chill it down to that 59 degrees there's also uh people having the ability to do also uh people having the ability to do also uh people having the ability to do a cold shower and a lot of times people a cold shower and a lot of times people a cold shower and a lot of times people ask you is there still benefits with the

1:32ask you is there still benefits with the ask you is there still benefits with the cold shower so talk about cold shower cold shower so talk about cold shower cold shower so talk about cold shower and how that fits into this if people and how that fits into this if people and how that fits into this if people don't have access to a bath and and how don't have access to a bath and and how don't have access to a bath and and how much that's studied in the literature or much that's studied in the literature or much that's studied in the literature or not studied in literature yeah so very not studied in literature yeah so very not studied in literature yeah so very good question and I think it's it's good question and I think it's it's good question and I think it's it's really important to also bring up some really important to also bring up some really important to also bring up some protocols or methods for this that's protocols or methods for this that's protocols or methods for this that's going to be feasible for all because I going to be feasible for all because I going to be feasible for all because I think that all people should eventually think that all people should eventually think that all people should eventually try out a cold exposure and also heat try out a cold exposure and also heat try out a cold exposure and also heat exposure for their health so cold exposure for their health so cold exposure for their health so cold showers is definitely a feasible way for showers is definitely a feasible way for showers is definitely a feasible way for most people because everyone has a most people because everyone has a most people because everyone has a shower right so everybody can turn the shower right so everybody can turn the shower right so everybody can turn the the handle to the cold side and and have the handle to the cold side and and have the handle to the cold side and and have it as cold as they can and and I'm it as cold as they can and and I'm it as cold as they can and and I'm pretty sure it's going to be enough pretty sure it's going to be enough pretty sure it's going to be enough um because most water can can go down to um because most water can can go down to um because most water can can go down to to to to to a cold degree which is going to to to to a cold degree which is going to to to to a cold degree which is going to activate your sympathetic nervous to activate your sympathetic nervous to activate your sympathetic nervous system system system so um and with that said so um and with that said so um and with that said um there is a study from Holland um

1:33um there is a study from Holland um um there is a study from Holland um a randomized controlled trial where they a randomized controlled trial where they a randomized controlled trial where they have studied ending on cold showers so a have studied ending on cold showers so a have studied ending on cold showers so a hot shower and then ending 30 seconds up hot shower and then ending 30 seconds up hot shower and then ending 30 seconds up to 90 seconds on code on a cold shower to 90 seconds on code on a cold shower to 90 seconds on code on a cold shower so they they built this up so they they built this up so they they built this up they showed that if you cold shower for they showed that if you cold shower for they showed that if you cold shower for 30 seconds and up to 90 seconds you will 30 seconds and up to 90 seconds you will 30 seconds and up to 90 seconds you will have a decrease in sick days from work have a decrease in sick days from work have a decrease in sick days from work and you can ask why is that well and and you can ask why is that well and and you can ask why is that well and it's probably because of a deactivation it's probably because of a deactivation it's probably because of a deactivation of your immune system but it's also your of your immune system but it's also your of your immune system but it's also your metabolism but also the metabolism but also the metabolism but also the neurotransmitters will also increase in neurotransmitters will also increase in neurotransmitters will also increase in your brain so you have the dopamine your brain so you have the dopamine your brain so you have the dopamine noradrenaline going which has given you noradrenaline going which has given you noradrenaline going which has given you energy and you give you drive and also energy and you give you drive and also energy and you give you drive and also endophins and serotonin is also going to endophins and serotonin is also going to endophins and serotonin is also going to be activated probably and also oxytocin be activated probably and also oxytocin be activated probably and also oxytocin so oxytocin is our love or drug you can so oxytocin is our love or drug you can so oxytocin is our love or drug you can say in our body which is also a stress say in our body which is also a stress say in our body which is also a stress hormone so it will it will be activated hormone so it will it will be activated hormone so it will it will be activated to survive also to survive also to survive also um so with all that going in your body

1:34um so with all that going in your body um so with all that going in your body you can maybe ask whether people have you can maybe ask whether people have you can maybe ask whether people have less sick days from work because they less sick days from work because they less sick days from work because they were more positively had a more positive were more positively had a more positive were more positively had a more positive mindset which made them come up go up in mindset which made them come up go up in mindset which made them come up go up in the morning and went to work even though the morning and went to work even though the morning and went to work even though maybe feeling a little bit like not maybe feeling a little bit like not maybe feeling a little bit like not really really that well really really that well really really that well um or it was actually both also um or it was actually both also um or it was actually both also activation of the immune system which activation of the immune system which activation of the immune system which then we'll add today defeat these then we'll add today defeat these then we'll add today defeat these viruses or what they had so it could be viruses or what they had so it could be viruses or what they had so it could be both both both um I think maybe that's a could be a um I think maybe that's a could be a um I think maybe that's a could be a reason at least but cold showers is reason at least but cold showers is reason at least but cold showers is definitely a way to go there is not much definitely a way to go there is not much definitely a way to go there is not much literature out there but this study I literature out there but this study I literature out there but this study I think is is very powerful it's a think is is very powerful it's a think is is very powerful it's a randomized control trial still could be randomized control trial still could be randomized control trial still could be some benefits but just to be clear for some benefits but just to be clear for some benefits but just to be clear for people it was not the the the the people it was not the the the the people it was not the the the the plethora of benefits that you saw in plethora of benefits that you saw in plethora of benefits that you saw in your study is really through cold your study is really through cold your study is really through cold emotion immersion and winter swimming emotion immersion and winter swimming emotion immersion and winter swimming yes right and also too I don't know if yes right and also too I don't know if yes right and also too I don't know if you've ever tried cold showers yourself you've ever tried cold showers yourself you've ever tried cold showers yourself but I find them actually more difficult

1:35but I find them actually more difficult but I find them actually more difficult yes than winter swimming and and and yes than winter swimming and and and yes than winter swimming and and and cold plunges yeah because you know cold plunges yeah because you know cold plunges yeah because you know typically like uh you know if people typically like uh you know if people typically like uh you know if people don't have like an overhead shower you don't have like an overhead shower you don't have like an overhead shower you know head yeah you are getting cold on know head yeah you are getting cold on know head yeah you are getting cold on like one side of your body and the other like one side of your body and the other like one side of your body and the other side of your body is warm it feels like side of your body is warm it feels like side of your body is warm it feels like this is really tough to do yeah versus this is really tough to do yeah versus this is really tough to do yeah versus when you submerge yourself in cold water when you submerge yourself in cold water when you submerge yourself in cold water through applying orange or an ice bath through applying orange or an ice bath through applying orange or an ice bath or something like that your entire body or something like that your entire body or something like that your entire body is cold at the same time and it's more is cold at the same time and it's more is cold at the same time and it's more of a shock to the system but in a way of a shock to the system but in a way of a shock to the system but in a way you don't overthink it when I'm in a you don't overthink it when I'm in a you don't overthink it when I'm in a cold shower I feel like I don't want to cold shower I feel like I don't want to cold shower I feel like I don't want to do this anymore because my back of the do this anymore because my back of the do this anymore because my back of the showers on my back my back is cold and showers on my back my back is cold and showers on my back my back is cold and my front is warm so I'm like thinking my front is warm so I'm like thinking my front is warm so I'm like thinking about the contrast and the temperature about the contrast and the temperature about the contrast and the temperature have you noticed that at all yes have you noticed that at all yes have you noticed that at all yes definitely and and that is I have the definitely and and that is I have the definitely and and that is I have the same reason for not doing the cold the same reason for not doing the cold the same reason for not doing the cold the showers I don't do that very often showers I don't do that very often showers I don't do that very often um because it's it's it's more um because it's it's it's more um because it's it's it's more uncomfortable for me to do than they go

1:36uncomfortable for me to do than they go uncomfortable for me to do than they go and then then go to motion and it's not and then then go to motion and it's not and then then go to motion and it's not like we shouldn't seek the uncomfortable like we shouldn't seek the uncomfortable like we shouldn't seek the uncomfortable we should but as you just said it's also we should but as you just said it's also we should but as you just said it's also about how does the cold water hit your about how does the cold water hit your about how does the cold water hit your body and of course you can do like a body and of course you can do like a body and of course you can do like a movement where you have the the drops or movement where you have the the drops or movement where you have the the drops or the water hit your chest and then your the water hit your chest and then your the water hit your chest and then your back and you can also bend a little bit back and you can also bend a little bit back and you can also bend a little bit to like even it a bit out but but it's to like even it a bit out but but it's to like even it a bit out but but it's like you will activate your sympathetic like you will activate your sympathetic like you will activate your sympathetic nervous system because you don't nervous system because you don't nervous system because you don't submerge into cold water when you do do submerge into cold water when you do do submerge into cold water when you do do the cold showers you won't have the same the cold showers you won't have the same the cold showers you won't have the same degree of activation of your degree of activation of your degree of activation of your parasympathetic nervous system so you parasympathetic nervous system so you parasympathetic nervous system so you don't get the activation of the resting don't get the activation of the resting don't get the activation of the resting part of your nervous system which I part of your nervous system which I part of your nervous system which I think is very important also to get that think is very important also to get that think is very important also to get that mental balance and increase in serotonin mental balance and increase in serotonin mental balance and increase in serotonin which you do when you do the cold water which you do when you do the cold water which you do when you do the cold water immersion so I will always say that cold immersion so I will always say that cold immersion so I will always say that cold showers are really good and it's also showers are really good and it's also showers are really good and it's also good for giving you drive and energy good for giving you drive and energy good for giving you drive and energy because that's going to increase when because that's going to increase when because that's going to increase when you do when you do that but if you want you do when you do that but if you want you do when you do that but if you want to also create a more resilience so to also create a more resilience so to also create a more resilience so stress resilience mental resilience and

1:37stress resilience mental resilience and stress resilience mental resilience and also get the adaptation to cold water also get the adaptation to cold water also get the adaptation to cold water you need to submerge into cold water and you need to submerge into cold water and you need to submerge into cold water and there are studies actually there are studies actually there are studies actually you can say comparing you can say comparing you can say comparing um two groups when one group um um two groups when one group um um two groups when one group um did a cold showers at 10 10 degrees did a cold showers at 10 10 degrees did a cold showers at 10 10 degrees Celsius Celsius trying to convert that to Fahrenheit 50 trying to convert that to Fahrenheit 50 trying to convert that to Fahrenheit 50 degrees Fahrenheit so okay and they they degrees Fahrenheit so okay and they they degrees Fahrenheit so okay and they they saw that if they practice cold showers saw that if they practice cold showers saw that if they practice cold showers at 10 degrees or 15 degrees Celsius and at 10 degrees or 15 degrees Celsius and at 10 degrees or 15 degrees Celsius and they them some weeks later after they they them some weeks later after they they them some weeks later after they have exposed themselves to this and they have exposed themselves to this and they have exposed themselves to this and they submerge into a cold a top with cold submerge into a cold a top with cold submerge into a cold a top with cold water at the same degree as the cold water at the same degree as the cold water at the same degree as the cold showers they were adapted but if you showers they were adapted but if you showers they were adapted but if you just turn the temperature down a bit so just turn the temperature down a bit so just turn the temperature down a bit so maybe at eight degrees or at 10 degrees maybe at eight degrees or at 10 degrees maybe at eight degrees or at 10 degrees Celsius then they will start to Celsius then they will start to Celsius then they will start to hyperventilate again so they measured it hyperventilate again so they measured it hyperventilate again so they measured it this on this on this on um um on um on hyperventilation so breaths per

1:38on um on hyperventilation so breaths per on um on hyperventilation so breaths per minute is what it was yeah so you don't minute is what it was yeah so you don't minute is what it was yeah so you don't get cold adapted that was the message so get cold adapted that was the message so get cold adapted that was the message so you don't get code adapted from using you don't get code adapted from using you don't get code adapted from using cold showers to other temperatures than cold showers to other temperatures than cold showers to other temperatures than your cold shower so but you do that when your cold shower so but you do that when your cold shower so but you do that when you go into a cold top then you will be you go into a cold top then you will be you go into a cold top then you will be resilient on different temperatures of resilient on different temperatures of resilient on different temperatures of course another thing that I found very course another thing that I found very course another thing that I found very interesting about your work and research interesting about your work and research interesting about your work and research is that you also found that you know is that you also found that you know is that you also found that you know it's not about continuously necessarily it's not about continuously necessarily it's not about continuously necessarily going colder especially if people are going colder especially if people are going colder especially if people are doing winter swimming or you know I live doing winter swimming or you know I live doing winter swimming or you know I live in Los Angeles and a lot of people go to in Los Angeles and a lot of people go to in Los Angeles and a lot of people go to the Pacific Ocean which is pretty much the Pacific Ocean which is pretty much the Pacific Ocean which is pretty much you know cold year round and definitely you know cold year round and definitely you know cold year round and definitely a lot colder in the in the winter time a lot colder in the in the winter time a lot colder in the in the winter time even going at varying degrees of cold even going at varying degrees of cold even going at varying degrees of cold can still be beneficial to people right can still be beneficial to people right can still be beneficial to people right is that accurate I think it's it's it's is that accurate I think it's it's it's is that accurate I think it's it's it's something that I I use it it's an something that I I use it it's an something that I I use it it's an observation yeah it's kind of one of my observation yeah it's kind of one of my observation yeah it's kind of one of my philosophies around the cold water and philosophies around the cold water and philosophies around the cold water and temperature and what temperature is temperature and what temperature is temperature and what temperature is healthy for us I think that if you healthy for us I think that if you healthy for us I think that if you change the temperature just on on a change the temperature just on on a change the temperature just on on a theoretical level so you you would then

1:39theoretical level so you you would then theoretical level so you you would then increase you would challenge yourselves increase you would challenge yourselves increase you would challenge yourselves in hermetic stress so you don't get too in hermetic stress so you don't get too in hermetic stress so you don't get too adapted to one temperature it's just adapted to one temperature it's just adapted to one temperature it's just like the weight on your on your um on like the weight on your on your um on like the weight on your on your um on your weight belts when you go training your weight belts when you go training your weight belts when you go training in in your training center for your in in your training center for your in in your training center for your muscles you would change both the muscles you would change both the muscles you would change both the repetition but you all should change the repetition but you all should change the repetition but you all should change the weight on your on your weights to create weight on your on your weights to create weight on your on your weights to create this hermetic stress and to grow your this hermetic stress and to grow your this hermetic stress and to grow your muscle cells and the same way when you muscle cells and the same way when you muscle cells and the same way when you go into cold water you should change the go into cold water you should change the go into cold water you should change the temperature just to keep your cells temperature just to keep your cells temperature just to keep your cells always working and and increasing always working and and increasing always working and and increasing hermetic stress in the cell so this is hermetic stress in the cell so this is hermetic stress in the cell so this is the healthy stress so by changing the the healthy stress so by changing the the healthy stress so by changing the temperature you will keep your material temperature you will keep your material temperature you will keep your material establishing on its toes and you will establishing on its toes and you will establishing on its toes and you will also have also because you cannot at also have also because you cannot at also have also because you cannot at some level you can't go lower in some level you can't go lower in some level you can't go lower in temperature right you then it it's temperature right you then it it's temperature right you then it it's actually beneficial for you I think that actually beneficial for you I think that actually beneficial for you I think that going a little bit up and then go a going a little bit up and then go a going a little bit up and then go a little bit down again in temperature little bit down again in temperature little bit down again in temperature is there the safest degree cold that is there the safest degree cold that is there the safest degree cold that people can go if they find it that people can go if they find it that people can go if they find it that they're tolerating it like how how cold they're tolerating it like how how cold they're tolerating it like how how cold I mean you're pretty much staying at

1:40I mean you're pretty much staying at I mean you're pretty much staying at freeze like you can't go and the ice is freeze like you can't go and the ice is freeze like you can't go and the ice is the water is going to freeze so do the water is going to freeze so do the water is going to freeze so do people so the water that people are people so the water that people are people so the water that people are going into in Winter swimming is what going into in Winter swimming is what going into in Winter swimming is what what is that temperature when in in what is that temperature when in in what is that temperature when in in Denmark like at its coldest yeah I think Denmark like at its coldest yeah I think Denmark like at its coldest yeah I think it's it's it's it's it's it's because in nature you don't have to because in nature you don't have to because in nature you don't have to think too much about this right if you think too much about this right if you think too much about this right if you have seasons the nature is going to do have seasons the nature is going to do have seasons the nature is going to do all this for you it's going to have the all this for you it's going to have the all this for you it's going to have the natural fluctuation natural very natural fluctuation natural very natural fluctuation natural very variation in in temperature and the variation in in temperature and the variation in in temperature and the temperature in Denmark is actually not temperature in Denmark is actually not temperature in Denmark is actually not that cold that cold that cold um so oh we don't think so the air um so oh we don't think so the air um so oh we don't think so the air temperature you mean the air temperature temperature you mean the air temperature temperature you mean the air temperature but also the water so it it rarely goes but also the water so it it rarely goes but also the water so it it rarely goes below zero degrees Celsius so freezing below zero degrees Celsius so freezing below zero degrees Celsius so freezing point so if you look at uh October where point so if you look at uh October where point so if you look at uh October where our winter swimming season starts we our winter swimming season starts we our winter swimming season starts we have like nine degrees Celsius that is have like nine degrees Celsius that is have like nine degrees Celsius that is pretty much where it's that is a really pretty much where it's that is a really pretty much where it's that is a really cold month then for the water but it cold month then for the water but it cold month then for the water but it doesn't go below one to two degrees doesn't go below one to two degrees doesn't go below one to two degrees Celsius in January and then it goes up

1:41Celsius in January and then it goes up Celsius in January and then it goes up again actually so again actually so again actually so yeah not that cold not that cold and yeah not that cold not that cold and yeah not that cold not that cold and again we're talking about 59 degrees and again we're talking about 59 degrees and again we're talking about 59 degrees and lower is when you start to see a lot of lower is when you start to see a lot of lower is when you start to see a lot of these benefits you know you mentioned these benefits you know you mentioned these benefits you know you mentioned something previously which I think could something previously which I think could something previously which I think could be an interesting way for people who are be an interesting way for people who are be an interesting way for people who are you know really skittish about starting you know really skittish about starting you know really skittish about starting off even splashing your face with cold off even splashing your face with cold off even splashing your face with cold water and maybe getting some water water and maybe getting some water water and maybe getting some water activation on your neck as well too activation on your neck as well too activation on your neck as well too which is probably close to some of that which is probably close to some of that which is probably close to some of that brown fat that that could be beneficial brown fat that that could be beneficial brown fat that that could be beneficial so how could somebody start off with so how could somebody start off with so how could somebody start off with that is it just starting your faucet on that is it just starting your faucet on that is it just starting your faucet on a cold setting putting your hands a cold setting putting your hands a cold setting putting your hands underneath and washing your face for a underneath and washing your face for a underneath and washing your face for a little while yeah it could be I mean we little while yeah it could be I mean we little while yeah it could be I mean we could we all have like when we people could we all have like when we people could we all have like when we people have to get used to this thought of like have to get used to this thought of like have to get used to this thought of like going into the cold in some degree right going into the cold in some degree right going into the cold in some degree right and at some in the beginning when people and at some in the beginning when people and at some in the beginning when people hear this they will be that would be hear this they will be that would be hear this they will be that would be friction in the brain would be like no friction in the brain would be like no friction in the brain would be like no way I'm gonna do this and all way I'm gonna do this and all way I'm gonna do this and all co-plonchos have this thought at the

1:42co-plonchos have this thought at the co-plonchos have this thought at the beginning but it takes a while to get beginning but it takes a while to get beginning but it takes a while to get adapted to the thought of going into adapted to the thought of going into adapted to the thought of going into something that is really cold because we something that is really cold because we something that is really cold because we naturally are um trying to avoid it naturally are um trying to avoid it naturally are um trying to avoid it right so um it's going to take a while right so um it's going to take a while right so um it's going to take a while for people to get used to but if people for people to get used to but if people for people to get used to but if people just want to like have a really uh easy just want to like have a really uh easy just want to like have a really uh easy way of starting out it is beneficial for way of starting out it is beneficial for way of starting out it is beneficial for you to dip your hands in cold water it you to dip your hands in cold water it you to dip your hands in cold water it could be a bucket of ice and water and could be a bucket of ice and water and could be a bucket of ice and water and you can put your hands in there and see you can put your hands in there and see you can put your hands in there and see how does that feel for me it's not very how does that feel for me it's not very how does that feel for me it's not very nice I feel it's painful for my fingers nice I feel it's painful for my fingers nice I feel it's painful for my fingers so it definitely for women I would not so it definitely for women I would not so it definitely for women I would not recommend that one but splashing your recommend that one but splashing your recommend that one but splashing your face with cold water will activate also face with cold water will activate also face with cold water will activate also your your vagus nerve so that's going to your your vagus nerve so that's going to your your vagus nerve so that's going to give you this relaxing feeling give you this relaxing feeling give you this relaxing feeling afterwards you're feeling fresh and have afterwards you're feeling fresh and have afterwards you're feeling fresh and have this energy because you also activate this energy because you also activate this energy because you also activate the the sympathy aesthetic nervous the the sympathy aesthetic nervous the the sympathy aesthetic nervous system have no adrenaline going system have no adrenaline going system have no adrenaline going um but it's a way of starting I think um but it's a way of starting I think um but it's a way of starting I think there's these interesting studies in in there's these interesting studies in in there's these interesting studies in in fishermen fishermen fishermen um who put their hands they work with

1:43um who put their hands they work with um who put their hands they work with their hands in cold water all the time their hands in cold water all the time their hands in cold water all the time and and um there's this research group they um there's this research group they um there's this research group they looked into and they studied them to see looked into and they studied them to see looked into and they studied them to see if they were called adapted from just if they were called adapted from just if they were called adapted from just having their code their hands in cold having their code their hands in cold having their code their hands in cold water all the time and working and they water all the time and working and they water all the time and working and they showed that they were code adapted when showed that they were code adapted when showed that they were code adapted when they submerged them into cold water so I they submerged them into cold water so I they submerged them into cold water so I think that it really shows that that think that it really shows that that think that it really shows that that exposing your body parts just body parts exposing your body parts just body parts exposing your body parts just body parts to cold will give a systemic effect in to cold will give a systemic effect in to cold will give a systemic effect in the body and I think it makes sense the body and I think it makes sense the body and I think it makes sense because I mean we are one organ right because I mean we are one organ right because I mean we are one organ right it's it's just one one thing that is we it's it's just one one thing that is we it's it's just one one thing that is we are connected right with body and mind are connected right with body and mind are connected right with body and mind so when you put your hands into cold so when you put your hands into cold so when you put your hands into cold water that is going to affect your your water that is going to affect your your water that is going to affect your your whole body so it's not only just the whole body so it's not only just the whole body so it's not only just the hands that are getting adapted to cold hands that are getting adapted to cold hands that are getting adapted to cold and your or your face it's gonna have and your or your face it's gonna have and your or your face it's gonna have like a systemic effect of course not as like a systemic effect of course not as like a systemic effect of course not as effective as submerging your full body effective as submerging your full body effective as submerging your full body up to the neck but it's it could be a up to the neck but it's it could be a up to the neck but it's it could be a good starter it could be a good start good starter it could be a good start good starter it could be a good start yeah yeah it could be a good start for yeah yeah it could be a good start for yeah yeah it could be a good start for people so a couple sort of uh

1:44people so a couple sort of uh people so a couple sort of uh questions that I know that you get a lot questions that I know that you get a lot questions that I know that you get a lot from individuals one is that people ask from individuals one is that people ask from individuals one is that people ask can kids practice this can you take your can kids practice this can you take your can kids practice this can you take your kids along with you you have kids yes kids along with you you have kids yes kids along with you you have kids yes right and I've read in the book that right and I've read in the book that right and I've read in the book that they've come with you a couple times they've come with you a couple times they've come with you a couple times right yeah so is it generally considered right yeah so is it generally considered right yeah so is it generally considered safe as you know as long as there's an safe as you know as long as there's an safe as you know as long as there's an adult that's there with them for kids adult that's there with them for kids adult that's there with them for kids who as you told us and reminding the who as you told us and reminding the who as you told us and reminding the audience have more Brown fat uh is cold audience have more Brown fat uh is cold audience have more Brown fat uh is cold exposure winter swimming generally exposure winter swimming generally exposure winter swimming generally considered safe for kids considered safe for kids considered safe for kids yes I think that the if if uh if we are yes I think that the if if uh if we are yes I think that the if if uh if we are wise about it because wise about it because wise about it because um I of course looked into the um I of course looked into the um I of course looked into the literature around this and how does the literature around this and how does the literature around this and how does the body a smaller body body a smaller body body a smaller body um um that is exposed to cold water immersion that is exposed to cold water immersion that is exposed to cold water immersion how does that react compared to an adult how does that react compared to an adult how does that react compared to an adult body is there any difference and I found body is there any difference and I found body is there any difference and I found this um these interesting studies there this um these interesting studies there this um these interesting studies there was a few where they measured the core was a few where they measured the core was a few where they measured the core temperature of children compared to temperature of children compared to temperature of children compared to adults adults adults um and with like same body composition

1:45um and with like same body composition um and with like same body composition and and fat percentage in in both the and and fat percentage in in both the and and fat percentage in in both the adult group and and the young children adult group and and the young children adult group and and the young children so they were the these boys were around so they were the these boys were around so they were the these boys were around 12 years old compared to an an older 12 years old compared to an an older 12 years old compared to an an older group group group um and they found that um and they found that um and they found that if they were exposed to cold water if they were exposed to cold water if they were exposed to cold water immersion for about a minute they could immersion for about a minute they could immersion for about a minute they could the children could defend their body the children could defend their body the children could defend their body core temperature in the same degree as core temperature in the same degree as core temperature in the same degree as the adult group could but they did it in the adult group could but they did it in the adult group could but they did it in another way so meaning that because they another way so meaning that because they another way so meaning that because they have a larger surface ratio to their have a larger surface ratio to their have a larger surface ratio to their Mass Mass Mass compared to the adult they would compared to the adult they would compared to the adult they would activate the muscles before the adult activate the muscles before the adult activate the muscles before the adult would because they get easily coat they would because they get easily coat they would because they get easily coat they have less Mass right so meaning so yeah have less Mass right so meaning so yeah have less Mass right so meaning so yeah just to get to the conclusion of that is just to get to the conclusion of that is just to get to the conclusion of that is just to say that there are some research just to say that there are some research just to say that there are some research about this but also to um to back up my about this but also to um to back up my about this but also to um to back up my point which is that if you take your point which is that if you take your point which is that if you take your children along with you think about them

1:46children along with you think about them children along with you think about them as as as um it would be healthy for them to go um it would be healthy for them to go um it would be healthy for them to go into the cold water but very brief and into the cold water but very brief and into the cold water but very brief and make sure briefly and they should be make sure briefly and they should be make sure briefly and they should be able to get into some warm able to get into some warm able to get into some warm um sauna or and also very briefly there um sauna or and also very briefly there um sauna or and also very briefly there it's the same thing it's the same thing it's the same thing um or be able to drink something hot and um or be able to drink something hot and um or be able to drink something hot and and also take their clothes on again so and also take their clothes on again so and also take their clothes on again so they will they will decrease the they will they will decrease the they will they will decrease the temperature faster than an adult so it temperature faster than an adult so it temperature faster than an adult so it should be very brief and so in that should be very brief and so in that should be very brief and so in that sense for you know a lot of people sense for you know a lot of people sense for you know a lot of people listening who have kids listening who have kids listening who have kids you know can that same protocol that the you know can that same protocol that the you know can that same protocol that the winter swimmers do obviously at shorter winter swimmers do obviously at shorter winter swimmers do obviously at shorter times are kids still ending on cold and times are kids still ending on cold and times are kids still ending on cold and letting their body naturally warm up or letting their body naturally warm up or letting their body naturally warm up or do you think that kids should kind of be do you think that kids should kind of be do you think that kids should kind of be warmed up by something warm like a like warmed up by something warm like a like warmed up by something warm like a like a sauna or kind of heat up like how do a sauna or kind of heat up like how do a sauna or kind of heat up like how do you you know I'm sure there's probably you you know I'm sure there's probably you you know I'm sure there's probably not literature on it but if you would not literature on it but if you would not literature on it but if you would say advise to people or it just depends say advise to people or it just depends say advise to people or it just depends well well well I let my kids heat up by themselves yeah I let my kids heat up by themselves yeah I let my kids heat up by themselves yeah because they just run I mean they they

1:47because they just run I mean they they because they just run I mean they they are not sitting still on the still on are not sitting still on the still on are not sitting still on the still on the couch I mean as long as they're the couch I mean as long as they're the couch I mean as long as they're running and they're having fun and running and they're having fun and running and they're having fun and they're still smiling they can heat up they're still smiling they can heat up they're still smiling they can heat up by themselves this is like not something by themselves this is like not something by themselves this is like not something that is like it has side effects in that that is like it has side effects in that that is like it has side effects in that way it's just cold I mean kids you know way it's just cold I mean kids you know way it's just cold I mean kids you know any parent knows this yeah you know I'm any parent knows this yeah you know I'm any parent knows this yeah you know I'm not a parent yet but I just seen it with not a parent yet but I just seen it with not a parent yet but I just seen it with my nephew niece and just even as I was a my nephew niece and just even as I was a my nephew niece and just even as I was a child I used to love to just go outside child I used to love to just go outside child I used to love to just go outside in the cold with my bare feet I wouldn't in the cold with my bare feet I wouldn't in the cold with my bare feet I wouldn't even have a jacket on and everybody even have a jacket on and everybody even have a jacket on and everybody would tell me adults would say put your would tell me adults would say put your would tell me adults would say put your jacket on you're going to get sick jacket on you're going to get sick jacket on you're going to get sick you're gonna do that I didn't get sick you're gonna do that I didn't get sick you're gonna do that I didn't get sick no you know and I also it felt good to no you know and I also it felt good to no you know and I also it felt good to be outside I'd be outside and just have be outside I'd be outside and just have be outside I'd be outside and just have a t-shirt on it's snowing in the middle a t-shirt on it's snowing in the middle a t-shirt on it's snowing in the middle of winter and I just felt like oh this of winter and I just felt like oh this of winter and I just felt like oh this is cool this is good this is fun you is cool this is good this is fun you is cool this is good this is fun you know yeah so kids are just generally know yeah so kids are just generally know yeah so kids are just generally more well tolerated much more and they more well tolerated much more and they more well tolerated much more and they have more Brown fat so and that's is have more Brown fat so and that's is have more Brown fat so and that's is going to help them heat up again so and going to help them heat up again so and going to help them heat up again so and they move more so it's just I think it's they move more so it's just I think it's they move more so it's just I think it's it's fine as long as they they feel fine it's fine as long as they they feel fine it's fine as long as they they feel fine and they can talk so you if you if you and they can talk so you if you if you and they can talk so you if you if you can ask them how you feel yeah so I can ask them how you feel yeah so I can ask them how you feel yeah so I think as long as they move I think

1:48think as long as they move I think think as long as they move I think everything is fine what about pregnant everything is fine what about pregnant everything is fine what about pregnant women what have you seen and observed do women what have you seen and observed do women what have you seen and observed do you ever see pregnant women doing this you ever see pregnant women doing this you ever see pregnant women doing this in Denmark or yeah exposure no I in Denmark or yeah exposure no I in Denmark or yeah exposure no I actually no I don't and I I would just actually no I don't and I I would just actually no I don't and I I would just say that say that say that um I would not recommend pregnant women um I would not recommend pregnant women um I would not recommend pregnant women to do this just also because we don't to do this just also because we don't to do this just also because we don't have enough research around this how have enough research around this how have enough research around this how does it affect the the features or right does it affect the the features or right does it affect the the features or right it's it's really important that we don't it's it's really important that we don't it's it's really important that we don't give advice to a group who we is give advice to a group who we is give advice to a group who we is understudied in this so I would just say understudied in this so I would just say understudied in this so I would just say hey take a break for nine months think hey take a break for nine months think hey take a break for nine months think about this as a nice break because you about this as a nice break because you about this as a nice break because you are doing something else in your life are doing something else in your life are doing something else in your life and there's a time for everything so and and there's a time for everything so and and there's a time for everything so and after the nine month you can rely on after the nine month you can rely on after the nine month you can rely on that your body will remember your cold that your body will remember your cold that your body will remember your cold tolerance there are studies showing that tolerance there are studies showing that tolerance there are studies showing that if you have a break for a year your if you have a break for a year your if you have a break for a year your um your um your hyperventilation will um your um your hyperventilation will um your um your hyperventilation will still be less a year later than when you still be less a year later than when you still be less a year later than when you started the year before so it really started the year before so it really started the year before so it really means that your um your code tolerance

1:49means that your um your code tolerance means that your um your code tolerance would be remembered in your body a whole would be remembered in your body a whole would be remembered in your body a whole year later so it's it's not going to be year later so it's it's not going to be year later so it's it's not going to be from scratch when you start again yeah from scratch when you start again yeah from scratch when you start again yeah absolutely and so that pivots us into uh absolutely and so that pivots us into uh absolutely and so that pivots us into uh hot because in your book a big part of hot because in your book a big part of hot because in your book a big part of you know in in the new book which is not you know in in the new book which is not you know in in the new book which is not out in English yet you know it's it's out in English yet you know it's it's out in English yet you know it's it's it's out in uh in uh in Danish is that it's out in uh in uh in Danish is that it's out in uh in uh in Danish is that is that the language that's yes Danish is that the language that's yes Danish is that the language that's yes Danish um it's out in Danish so if anybody um it's out in Danish so if anybody um it's out in Danish so if anybody knows how to read Danish great you know knows how to read Danish great you know knows how to read Danish great you know we'll link to it in the show notes but we'll link to it in the show notes but we'll link to it in the show notes but it'll be out in America soon it's called it'll be out in America soon it's called it'll be out in America soon it's called the thermalist and and but part of what the thermalist and and but part of what the thermalist and and but part of what you do let's hope let's hope knock on you do let's hope let's hope knock on you do let's hope let's hope knock on wood I I suspect so so in this current wood I I suspect so so in this current wood I I suspect so so in this current book winter swimming which is available book winter swimming which is available book winter swimming which is available and you guys can pick it up it's inside and you guys can pick it up it's inside and you guys can pick it up it's inside of the show notes the link to it on of the show notes the link to it on of the show notes the link to it on Amazon here in the US and Canada Etc all Amazon here in the US and Canada Etc all Amazon here in the US and Canada Etc all the places the places the places um you have a whole section that also um you have a whole section that also um you have a whole section that also talks about talks about talks about um Sana and heat now I wanted to start um Sana and heat now I wanted to start um Sana and heat now I wanted to start off big picture uh why do you think that off big picture uh why do you think that off big picture uh why do you think that there's just so much more of the

1:50there's just so much more of the there's just so much more of the literature that's out there on heat literature that's out there on heat literature that's out there on heat compared to cold is that just because compared to cold is that just because compared to cold is that just because human beings as a whole are probably see human beings as a whole are probably see human beings as a whole are probably see probably practicing more heat exposure probably practicing more heat exposure probably practicing more heat exposure than cold so just the natural interests than cold so just the natural interests than cold so just the natural interests that got researchers like yourself that got researchers like yourself that got researchers like yourself wanting to look at it was just gonna be wanting to look at it was just gonna be wanting to look at it was just gonna be was just a little lower was just a little lower was just a little lower um um um I think that yeah like we talked um I think that yeah like we talked um I think that yeah like we talked about earlier about earlier about earlier Holt has kept this little a bit of a Holt has kept this little a bit of a Holt has kept this little a bit of a dark shadow over it for in just in dark shadow over it for in just in dark shadow over it for in just in history history history um and the heat not so much and we have um and the heat not so much and we have um and the heat not so much and we have good long cohort studies from Finland good long cohort studies from Finland good long cohort studies from Finland showing really nice long-term results on showing really nice long-term results on showing really nice long-term results on what happens in your body what happens in your body what happens in your body um on health outcomes after 20 years um on health outcomes after 20 years um on health outcomes after 20 years going into to to saunas so I think going into to to saunas so I think going into to to saunas so I think that's the cohort studies that you're that's the cohort studies that you're that's the cohort studies that you're talking about the Finnish cohort studies talking about the Finnish cohort studies talking about the Finnish cohort studies exactly and so it's it's it's more exactly and so it's it's it's more exactly and so it's it's it's more studied than cold exposure and I think studied than cold exposure and I think studied than cold exposure and I think it's it's it should be more popular out

1:51it's it's it should be more popular out it's it's it should be more popular out in the world doing in doing saunas in the world doing in doing saunas in the world doing in doing saunas because it's it mimics actually because it's it mimics actually because it's it mimics actually um um training and workout like you go to the training and workout like you go to the training and workout like you go to the gym so you can mimic a training session gym so you can mimic a training session gym so you can mimic a training session going into the sauna and I think this is going into the sauna and I think this is going into the sauna and I think this is really not not that you should not then really not not that you should not then really not not that you should not then train but I think it's very important to train but I think it's very important to train but I think it's very important to say well if you for some reason are not say well if you for some reason are not say well if you for some reason are not able maybe to to go to the gym able maybe to to go to the gym able maybe to to go to the gym um then you would also get this um then you would also get this um then you would also get this cardiovascular workout by going into the cardiovascular workout by going into the cardiovascular workout by going into the heat you will have an increase in nitric heat you will have an increase in nitric heat you will have an increase in nitric oxide in your in yourself in your blood oxide in your in yourself in your blood oxide in your in yourself in your blood vessels which will help your body vessels which will help your body vessels which will help your body deliver oxygen better around all your deliver oxygen better around all your deliver oxygen better around all your cells in your body and you will also cells in your body and you will also cells in your body and you will also have this um increase in in endothelial have this um increase in in endothelial have this um increase in in endothelial cells in in your blood vessels which cells in in your blood vessels which cells in in your blood vessels which will help your your cardiovascular will help your your cardiovascular will help your your cardiovascular system uh to to circulate the blood even system uh to to circulate the blood even system uh to to circulate the blood even better better better um and it has some and that is just what um and it has some and that is just what um and it has some and that is just what happens like in your body right right

1:52happens like in your body right right happens like in your body right right but it also decreases your risk of but it also decreases your risk of but it also decreases your risk of cardiovascular diseases on the long term cardiovascular diseases on the long term cardiovascular diseases on the long term and that is what the these long-term and that is what the these long-term and that is what the these long-term observational studies found and I think observational studies found and I think observational studies found and I think it's it's a really good observational it's it's a really good observational it's it's a really good observational study that we are referring to here so study that we are referring to here so study that we are referring to here so I think it's really good because I think it's really good because I think it's really good because um these Lao Canyon and and colleagues um these Lao Canyon and and colleagues um these Lao Canyon and and colleagues from Finland published this paper from from Finland published this paper from from Finland published this paper from 2015 where they showed that if you go 2015 where they showed that if you go 2015 where they showed that if you go into the sonas two to three times per into the sonas two to three times per into the sonas two to three times per week you will lower your risk of a week you will lower your risk of a week you will lower your risk of a premature death so premature death so premature death so lowering your um lowering your um lowering your um lowering your all-cause mortality by a lowering your all-cause mortality by a lowering your all-cause mortality by a 27 percent and if you go every day so 27 percent and if you go every day so 27 percent and if you go every day so like four to seven times per week you like four to seven times per week you like four to seven times per week you will you decrease it by 40 which is huge will you decrease it by 40 which is huge will you decrease it by 40 which is huge which is huge right like there's not which is huge right like there's not which is huge right like there's not many what do we know of that is in that many what do we know of that is in that many what do we know of that is in that similar boat in terms of Lifestyle similar boat in terms of Lifestyle similar boat in terms of Lifestyle Therapeutics exactly and this is just Therapeutics exactly and this is just Therapeutics exactly and this is just doing this from more than one times per doing this from more than one times per doing this from more than one times per week so the control group and I think

1:53week so the control group and I think week so the control group and I think this is important the control group were this is important the control group were this is important the control group were also son of bathers so meaning that they also son of bathers so meaning that they also son of bathers so meaning that they also choose this lifestyle of using the also choose this lifestyle of using the also choose this lifestyle of using the sauna and I mean you could have a sauna and I mean you could have a sauna and I mean you could have a control group which didn't do it at all control group which didn't do it at all control group which didn't do it at all and then you can maybe debate then what and then you can maybe debate then what and then you can maybe debate then what happens with you just do it so they happens with you just do it so they happens with you just do it so they really showed at those response um really showed at those response um really showed at those response um um relationship and doing those dosages um relationship and doing those dosages um relationship and doing those dosages those dosages there are two more than those dosages there are two more than those dosages there are two more than two times up to seven times is healthy two times up to seven times is healthy two times up to seven times is healthy for you if you don't overdo it so what I for you if you don't overdo it so what I for you if you don't overdo it so what I also think is very important here is how also think is very important here is how also think is very important here is how long do you sit in the sauna right yeah long do you sit in the sauna right yeah long do you sit in the sauna right yeah so they showed that um up to 19 to 30 so they showed that um up to 19 to 30 so they showed that um up to 19 to 30 minutes at a time at 80 degrees Celsius minutes at a time at 80 degrees Celsius minutes at a time at 80 degrees Celsius how do we convert that uh what's 80 how do we convert that uh what's 80 how do we convert that uh what's 80 degrees Celsius I think it's degrees Celsius I think it's degrees Celsius I think it's 120 120 120 176 I think yeah 176. yes so I think the 176 I think yeah 176. yes so I think the 176 I think yeah 176. yes so I think the important thing is that when you go in important thing is that when you go in important thing is that when you go in to the sauna that you don't overdo it so to the sauna that you don't overdo it so to the sauna that you don't overdo it so 19 to 30 minutes seems to be the like

1:5419 to 30 minutes seems to be the like 19 to 30 minutes seems to be the like highest threshold for uh getting the highest threshold for uh getting the highest threshold for uh getting the health benefits on the long term and so health benefits on the long term and so health benefits on the long term and so you don't overdo it so at 80 degrees you don't overdo it so at 80 degrees you don't overdo it so at 80 degrees Celsius which is 176 degrees Fahrenheit Celsius which is 176 degrees Fahrenheit Celsius which is 176 degrees Fahrenheit they is usually what they do in this they is usually what they do in this they is usually what they do in this Finnish sonas and um they showed also Finnish sonas and um they showed also Finnish sonas and um they showed also that when you then reach the 30 minutes that when you then reach the 30 minutes that when you then reach the 30 minutes per session you kind of had like a per session you kind of had like a per session you kind of had like a plateau in risk of cardiovascular plateau in risk of cardiovascular plateau in risk of cardiovascular diseases that then it starts to increase diseases that then it starts to increase diseases that then it starts to increase a bit again so these are the outcomes of a bit again so these are the outcomes of a bit again so these are the outcomes of cardiovascular disease and also or cause cardiovascular disease and also or cause cardiovascular disease and also or cause mortality so it seems like within this mortality so it seems like within this mortality so it seems like within this window of up to 19 minutes per time 30 window of up to 19 minutes per time 30 window of up to 19 minutes per time 30 minutes if you like stretch it a little minutes if you like stretch it a little minutes if you like stretch it a little bit but you won't get more benefits from bit but you won't get more benefits from bit but you won't get more benefits from um staying longer staying longer and um staying longer staying longer and um staying longer staying longer and that also I really think that this show that also I really think that this show that also I really think that this show that it is the micro stressing and the that it is the micro stressing and the that it is the micro stressing and the the short amount of stress that you put the short amount of stress that you put the short amount of stress that you put to your body that is going to make your to your body that is going to make your to your body that is going to make your cells more resilient make them the cells cells more resilient make them the cells cells more resilient make them the cells live longer because you increase the live longer because you increase the live longer because you increase the heat shock proteins in the cells which heat shock proteins in the cells which heat shock proteins in the cells which will repair the cells the repair the

1:55will repair the cells the repair the will repair the cells the repair the proteins in your cells to live longer so proteins in your cells to live longer so proteins in your cells to live longer so and when you then overdo it you exhaust and when you then overdo it you exhaust and when you then overdo it you exhaust the cells and this is referring again to the cells and this is referring again to the cells and this is referring again to this um to a hence the Sealy the The this um to a hence the Sealy the The this um to a hence the Sealy the The Sciences to discover distress syndrome Sciences to discover distress syndrome Sciences to discover distress syndrome so I really think this all correctly so I really think this all correctly so I really think this all correctly shows that what happens acutely when you shows that what happens acutely when you shows that what happens acutely when you expose your your body to acute stress expose your your body to acute stress expose your your body to acute stress but also on the long term there seems to but also on the long term there seems to but also on the long term there seems to be a higher threshold for when then the be a higher threshold for when then the be a higher threshold for when then the risk of cardiovascular diseases increase risk of cardiovascular diseases increase risk of cardiovascular diseases increase after 30 minutes that's going to show after 30 minutes that's going to show after 30 minutes that's going to show when your body gets exhausted yeah in when your body gets exhausted yeah in when your body gets exhausted yeah in the US we have this children's book you the US we have this children's book you the US we have this children's book you know I don't know if you guys have it know I don't know if you guys have it know I don't know if you guys have it there too it's pretty popular it's there too it's pretty popular it's there too it's pretty popular it's Goldilocks right oh yeah and the Three Goldilocks right oh yeah and the Three Goldilocks right oh yeah and the Three Bears yeah and so we have this you know Bears yeah and so we have this you know Bears yeah and so we have this you know this term the Goldilocks zone not too this term the Goldilocks zone not too this term the Goldilocks zone not too hot not too cold just right yeah right hot not too cold just right yeah right hot not too cold just right yeah right just just right for you and again you just just right for you and again you just just right for you and again you covered that with cold 11 minutes of covered that with cold 11 minutes of covered that with cold 11 minutes of total cold exposure in a week the total cold exposure in a week the total cold exposure in a week the benefits starting at 59 degrees benefits starting at 59 degrees benefits starting at 59 degrees Fahrenheit yeah and those cold exposure Fahrenheit yeah and those cold exposure Fahrenheit yeah and those cold exposure broken off into two or three you know

1:56broken off into two or three you know broken off into two or three you know sessions that would be there in the week sessions that would be there in the week sessions that would be there in the week and also making sure soberg principle and also making sure soberg principle and also making sure soberg principle drying off on your own and not drying off on your own and not drying off on your own and not immediately returning the Heat and here immediately returning the Heat and here immediately returning the Heat and here we have it now with hot too and I we have it now with hot too and I we have it now with hot too and I believe it was uh you you wrote about it believe it was uh you you wrote about it believe it was uh you you wrote about it as being 57 minutes of total time in the as being 57 minutes of total time in the as being 57 minutes of total time in the in the week yes right and that would be in the week yes right and that would be in the week yes right and that would be you know in these up to 19 minute sort you know in these up to 19 minute sort you know in these up to 19 minute sort of sessions 19 to 25 minutes of sessions 19 to 25 minutes of sessions 19 to 25 minutes 57 minutes per week of heat exposure you 57 minutes per week of heat exposure you 57 minutes per week of heat exposure you can do that in a sauna that's what it's can do that in a sauna that's what it's can do that in a sauna that's what it's tested on at least tested on at least tested on at least um and then divided that onto two to um and then divided that onto two to um and then divided that onto two to three times per week with two sessions three times per week with two sessions three times per week with two sessions each or you can just figure out your way each or you can just figure out your way each or you can just figure out your way of doing this but 10 to 15 minutes is of doing this but 10 to 15 minutes is of doing this but 10 to 15 minutes is what my subjects did in this study so it what my subjects did in this study so it what my subjects did in this study so it really really I think it corresponds really really I think it corresponds really really I think it corresponds quite well with the sauna finusona study quite well with the sauna finusona study quite well with the sauna finusona study where they have shown that it's where they have shown that it's where they have shown that it's beneficial up to especially 19 minutes beneficial up to especially 19 minutes beneficial up to especially 19 minutes and up to 30 minutes is okay but you and up to 30 minutes is okay but you and up to 30 minutes is okay but you don't have to overdo it you don't have don't have to overdo it you don't have don't have to overdo it you don't have to don't overdo it in fact less is more

1:57to don't overdo it in fact less is more to don't overdo it in fact less is more confirmed if you overdo it yeah exactly confirmed if you overdo it yeah exactly confirmed if you overdo it yeah exactly which is important especially in America which is important especially in America which is important especially in America as you're going on all these American as you're going on all these American as you're going on all these American podcasts there's a sense of of bravado podcasts there's a sense of of bravado podcasts there's a sense of of bravado and challenging each other and doing and challenging each other and doing and challenging each other and doing things like that so it's good to just things like that so it's good to just things like that so it's good to just remind people don't overdo it right just remind people don't overdo it right just remind people don't overdo it right just getting the basics is is good enough getting the basics is is good enough getting the basics is is good enough yeah that's inside of there the other yeah that's inside of there the other yeah that's inside of there the other thing that you've noticed also too or thing that you've noticed also too or thing that you've noticed also too or that you've talked about is that brown that you've talked about is that brown that you've talked about is that brown fat is also activated by heat but how is fat is also activated by heat but how is fat is also activated by heat but how is it different than in cold and is it less it different than in cold and is it less it different than in cold and is it less so in heat than in cold do we know right so in heat than in cold do we know right so in heat than in cold do we know right now uh we we uh we don't have the now uh we we uh we don't have the now uh we we uh we don't have the answers to all those questions but we we answers to all those questions but we we answers to all those questions but we we do know that it gets activated by heat do know that it gets activated by heat do know that it gets activated by heat there is a cell metabolism study showing there is a cell metabolism study showing there is a cell metabolism study showing that that um that cells who exposed to a brown fat um that cells who exposed to a brown fat um that cells who exposed to a brown fat cells are exposed to heat also get cells are exposed to heat also get cells are exposed to heat also get activated so and I think it really makes activated so and I think it really makes activated so and I think it really makes sense that we that our Brown fat is a sense that we that our Brown fat is a sense that we that our Brown fat is a temperature regulator in our body more temperature regulator in our body more temperature regulator in our body more than just a cold regulator so it it's than just a cold regulator so it it's than just a cold regulator so it it's there to keep us warm right yeah when we

1:58there to keep us warm right yeah when we there to keep us warm right yeah when we are cold but it's also to regulate us are cold but it's also to regulate us are cold but it's also to regulate us when we get too hot so it's it's kind of when we get too hot so it's it's kind of when we get too hot so it's it's kind of like counterintuitive and now when you like counterintuitive and now when you like counterintuitive and now when you told me you were from India you know told me you were from India you know told me you were from India you know that in India when you are warm at least that in India when you are warm at least that in India when you are warm at least I've been told when I went and visit my I've been told when I went and visit my I've been told when I went and visit my family in Sri Lanka they they said that family in Sri Lanka they they said that family in Sri Lanka they they said that well if you're too hot then you'll have well if you're too hot then you'll have well if you're too hot then you'll have a tea and I was like when as a child I a tea and I was like when as a child I a tea and I was like when as a child I was like this is crazy this country was like this is crazy this country was like this is crazy this country intuitive why are they giving me tea and intuitive why are they giving me tea and intuitive why are they giving me tea and I'll burn out from the inside right I'll burn out from the inside right I'll burn out from the inside right right but it really makes sense when I right but it really makes sense when I right but it really makes sense when I think about it because when you then think about it because when you then think about it because when you then increase your brown fat and you increase increase your brown fat and you increase increase your brown fat and you increase your temperature inside your body you your temperature inside your body you your temperature inside your body you will help your body open your blood will help your body open your blood will help your body open your blood vessels and you will increase your sweat vessels and you will increase your sweat vessels and you will increase your sweat rate so it helps your body to get rid of rate so it helps your body to get rid of rate so it helps your body to get rid of the Heat so the the brown feta is yeah the Heat so the the brown feta is yeah the Heat so the the brown feta is yeah it's very clever in a way it's just it's very clever in a way it's just it's very clever in a way it's just regulating our temperature in the body regulating our temperature in the body regulating our temperature in the body so it makes sense that it also activates so it makes sense that it also activates so it makes sense that it also activates in the heat in the heat in the heat um is there any truth you know you um is there any truth you know you um is there any truth you know you mentioned India right uh one of the mentioned India right uh one of the mentioned India right uh one of the things in ayurvedic tradition that you

1:59things in ayurvedic tradition that you things in ayurvedic tradition that you talk about you know grandparents you talk about you know grandparents you talk about you know grandparents you know my grandparents sometimes when our know my grandparents sometimes when our know my grandparents sometimes when our younger say you know don't drink there's younger say you know don't drink there's younger say you know don't drink there's all these different you know ideas that all these different you know ideas that all these different you know ideas that people have they would they would tell people have they would they would tell people have they would they would tell us like it's better to drink room us like it's better to drink room us like it's better to drink room temperature water and again I don't know temperature water and again I don't know temperature water and again I don't know if there's any studies on this but just if there's any studies on this but just if there's any studies on this but just your thoughts versus like drinking ice your thoughts versus like drinking ice your thoughts versus like drinking ice water right because we don't want to water right because we don't want to water right because we don't want to Super make our system too cold but I Super make our system too cold but I Super make our system too cold but I think that our system is so much more think that our system is so much more think that our system is so much more resilient than we give it credit for and resilient than we give it credit for and resilient than we give it credit for and and who knows maybe that was passed down and who knows maybe that was passed down and who knows maybe that was passed down from somebody or another but in general from somebody or another but in general from somebody or another but in general I think our body obviously you don't I think our body obviously you don't I think our body obviously you don't want too hot of a tea right that's want too hot of a tea right that's want too hot of a tea right that's something that can burn you and that can something that can burn you and that can something that can burn you and that can cause situation but it sounds like our cause situation but it sounds like our cause situation but it sounds like our you know our body is so much more you know our body is so much more you know our body is so much more resilient so having some cold having resilient so having some cold having resilient so having some cold having some hot it's like it's all good it's some hot it's like it's all good it's some hot it's like it's all good it's all good as long as you don't overdo it all good as long as you don't overdo it all good as long as you don't overdo it I mean that is gonna challenge I mean that is gonna challenge I mean that is gonna challenge yourselves and challenge your nervous yourselves and challenge your nervous yourselves and challenge your nervous system and that is that is what you system and that is that is what you system and that is that is what you really want to do because we we were really want to do because we we were really want to do because we we were involved in this so it does really make involved in this so it does really make involved in this so it does really make sense that it's also helping us keeping sense that it's also helping us keeping sense that it's also helping us keeping ourselves healthy and our body wants to

2:00ourselves healthy and our body wants to ourselves healthy and our body wants to it wants to be in that balance so I it wants to be in that balance so I it wants to be in that balance so I think that we should just learn to think that we should just learn to think that we should just learn to accept that and it's going to take a accept that and it's going to take a accept that and it's going to take a while for people to notice this also while for people to notice this also while for people to notice this also doctors and and to see that there's doctors and and to see that there's doctors and and to see that there's actually literature around this at this actually literature around this at this actually literature around this at this point and more is coming I'm pretty sure point and more is coming I'm pretty sure point and more is coming I'm pretty sure what I'm excited about for the future is what I'm excited about for the future is what I'm excited about for the future is you know and people building on top of you know and people building on top of you know and people building on top of the research and the work that you've the research and the work that you've the research and the work that you've done is I'm excited for people now at done is I'm excited for people now at done is I'm excited for people now at least in the US we don't mandate through least in the US we don't mandate through least in the US we don't mandate through the uh the FDA the Food and Drug the uh the FDA the Food and Drug the uh the FDA the Food and Drug Administration we don't mandate that uh Administration we don't mandate that uh Administration we don't mandate that uh popular drugs are tested against popular drugs are tested against popular drugs are tested against lifestyle components so I'm very excited lifestyle components so I'm very excited lifestyle components so I'm very excited in the future for people to do studies in the future for people to do studies in the future for people to do studies there have been some studies that have there have been some studies that have there have been some studies that have been done in diabetes comparing uh you been done in diabetes comparing uh you been done in diabetes comparing uh you know metformin which is a very popular know metformin which is a very popular know metformin which is a very popular diabetes drug compared to uh lifestyle diabetes drug compared to uh lifestyle diabetes drug compared to uh lifestyle interventions there was one definitive interventions there was one definitive interventions there was one definitive study that was done that was highlighted study that was done that was highlighted study that was done that was highlighted in this book by Dr John Abramson who's a in this book by Dr John Abramson who's a in this book by Dr John Abramson who's a guest professor and lecturer at Harvard guest professor and lecturer at Harvard guest professor and lecturer at Harvard University who has written a lot about

2:01University who has written a lot about University who has written a lot about some of the some of the some of the um where clinical trials can go wrong in um where clinical trials can go wrong in um where clinical trials can go wrong in the pharmaceutical world because of the pharmaceutical world because of the pharmaceutical world because of incentives that get out of whack right incentives that get out of whack right incentives that get out of whack right and and encouraged to sort of not look and and encouraged to sort of not look and and encouraged to sort of not look into lifestyle components and so doctors into lifestyle components and so doctors into lifestyle components and so doctors only get one part of the narrative yeah only get one part of the narrative yeah only get one part of the narrative yeah that this drug does X but then again that this drug does X but then again that this drug does X but then again nobody asks compared to what yes right nobody asks compared to what yes right nobody asks compared to what yes right so I'm very excited for the future which so I'm very excited for the future which so I'm very excited for the future which is okay how does this drug work compared is okay how does this drug work compared is okay how does this drug work compared to some intervention like cold exposure to some intervention like cold exposure to some intervention like cold exposure when it comes to something like insulin when it comes to something like insulin when it comes to something like insulin resistance glucose tolerance and other resistance glucose tolerance and other resistance glucose tolerance and other aspects can you see a future where this aspects can you see a future where this aspects can you see a future where this is all coming it'll take time but can is all coming it'll take time but can is all coming it'll take time but can you imagine that it would take some time you imagine that it would take some time you imagine that it would take some time but it's it's it's coming and I I think but it's it's it's coming and I I think but it's it's it's coming and I I think that it was last year there was that it was last year there was that it was last year there was published this amazing paper where they published this amazing paper where they published this amazing paper where they have tested a physical activity against have tested a physical activity against have tested a physical activity against different also drugs and and and and and different also drugs and and and and and different also drugs and and and and and it actually showed up that the physical it actually showed up that the physical it actually showed up that the physical activity protocol was actually more activity protocol was actually more activity protocol was actually more beneficial and more healthy than all beneficial and more healthy than all beneficial and more healthy than all these drugs so I think that

2:02these drugs so I think that these drugs so I think that um and and this was the study that um and and this was the study that um and and this was the study that that's really amazing right and putting that's really amazing right and putting that's really amazing right and putting prevention medicine in front but nobody prevention medicine in front but nobody prevention medicine in front but nobody talked about it it's like it's not talked about it it's like it's not talked about it it's like it's not really something that is promoted in any really something that is promoted in any really something that is promoted in any any way so I also think that we need a any way so I also think that we need a any way so I also think that we need a paradigm shift in this we need to focus paradigm shift in this we need to focus paradigm shift in this we need to focus more on how to stay healthy how do we more on how to stay healthy how do we more on how to stay healthy how do we help people get aware of how do you how help people get aware of how do you how help people get aware of how do you how does the body function also we need to does the body function also we need to does the body function also we need to we need to know all this because we need we need to know all this because we need we need to know all this because we need to teach our children how to to change to teach our children how to to change to teach our children how to to change this crisis right it's it starts with us this crisis right it's it starts with us this crisis right it's it starts with us are the adults but we have to learn this are the adults but we have to learn this are the adults but we have to learn this and accept that we we can't fight this and accept that we we can't fight this and accept that we we can't fight this off with more drugs because we have been off with more drugs because we have been off with more drugs because we have been making more drugs for many years now and making more drugs for many years now and making more drugs for many years now and the crisis still increasing so we need the crisis still increasing so we need the crisis still increasing so we need to make a change we need to think about to make a change we need to think about to make a change we need to think about health in another way so people can health in another way so people can health in another way so people can start to like engage more into how does start to like engage more into how does start to like engage more into how does my body actually function how can I help my body actually function how can I help my body actually function how can I help myself keep myself healthy and that is a

2:03myself keep myself healthy and that is a myself keep myself healthy and that is a hard work of course it's hard it's hard hard work of course it's hard it's hard hard work of course it's hard it's hard to to be alive and it's hard to stay to to be alive and it's hard to stay to to be alive and it's hard to stay healthy and alive right so but we need healthy and alive right so but we need healthy and alive right so but we need to to teach people how to how to do this to to teach people how to how to do this to to teach people how to how to do this but the world will come out and I think but the world will come out and I think but the world will come out and I think that in in the future we will have more that in in the future we will have more that in in the future we will have more of this I hope that there will be there of this I hope that there will be there of this I hope that there will be there will be this shift so we also get more will be this shift so we also get more will be this shift so we also get more funding for this kind of research I know funding for this kind of research I know funding for this kind of research I know for my research I had to fight a lot of for my research I had to fight a lot of for my research I had to fight a lot of years to get the funding for my study years to get the funding for my study years to get the funding for my study um six years took my my PhD it took six um six years took my my PhD it took six um six years took my my PhD it took six years so it's it's a lot of time years so it's it's a lot of time years so it's it's a lot of time compared to my colleagues who did a PC compared to my colleagues who did a PC compared to my colleagues who did a PC in three years so and that is because in three years so and that is because in three years so and that is because it's very difficult to get funding into it's very difficult to get funding into it's very difficult to get funding into the preventive medicine but I hope that the preventive medicine but I hope that the preventive medicine but I hope that it will come in the future yeah we need it will come in the future yeah we need it will come in the future yeah we need it more than ever yeah we need it more it more than ever yeah we need it more it more than ever yeah we need it more than ever a few more things that I have than ever a few more things that I have than ever a few more things that I have well while I have you here that that I well while I have you here that that I well while I have you here that that I wanted to kind of go through if that's wanted to kind of go through if that's wanted to kind of go through if that's okay and if you need to take a break at okay and if you need to take a break at okay and if you need to take a break at any time you let me know any time you let me know any time you let me know um when you're traveling right now

2:04um when you're traveling right now um when you're traveling right now you're in Los Angeles you're here to do you're in Los Angeles you're here to do you're in Los Angeles you're here to do some podcasts and connect and promote some podcasts and connect and promote some podcasts and connect and promote the book and your work and your research the book and your work and your research the book and your work and your research which we're so so thankful of which we're so so thankful of which we're so so thankful of um do you have any tips for people when um do you have any tips for people when um do you have any tips for people when they're traveling like on your trip here they're traveling like on your trip here they're traveling like on your trip here to La will you try to have some cold to La will you try to have some cold to La will you try to have some cold exposure and if so are there any exposure and if so are there any exposure and if so are there any practical tips that you have for people practical tips that you have for people practical tips that you have for people that are looking to maintain it as they that are looking to maintain it as they that are looking to maintain it as they as they travel as they travel as they travel oh oh oh I say that um I'm one of those people I say that um I'm one of those people I say that um I'm one of those people who always get very jet lagged yeah I who always get very jet lagged yeah I who always get very jet lagged yeah I think I have like a very strong think I have like a very strong think I have like a very strong circadian rhythm doesn't want to change circadian rhythm doesn't want to change circadian rhythm doesn't want to change it's like very like in my clock I don't it's like very like in my clock I don't it's like very like in my clock I don't want to change the so in Denmark we are want to change the so in Denmark we are want to change the so in Denmark we are in nine hours in nine hours in nine hours um ahead of La time now so um I probably um ahead of La time now so um I probably um ahead of La time now so um I probably should be sleeping very soon if I was in should be sleeping very soon if I was in should be sleeping very soon if I was in Denmark but Denmark but Denmark but um I think that doing a cold shower in um I think that doing a cold shower in um I think that doing a cold shower in the morning when I'm when you're the morning when I'm when you're the morning when I'm when you're supposed to be awake at that time zone supposed to be awake at that time zone supposed to be awake at that time zone that's gonna help your change your

2:05that's gonna help your change your that's gonna help your change your circading clock so by increasing that circading clock so by increasing that circading clock so by increasing that Cortisone and also norepinephrine it's Cortisone and also norepinephrine it's Cortisone and also norepinephrine it's gonna change it a little bit faster so gonna change it a little bit faster so gonna change it a little bit faster so what I did is there was a pool Up on the what I did is there was a pool Up on the what I did is there was a pool Up on the Rooftop where I I live in my hotel and Rooftop where I I live in my hotel and Rooftop where I I live in my hotel and it was closed it was closed yeah okay it was closed it was closed yeah okay it was closed it was closed yeah okay got it but then I just asked Can you can got it but then I just asked Can you can got it but then I just asked Can you can you open the gate in the morning because you open the gate in the morning because you open the gate in the morning because I wake up at six or seven here and they I wake up at six or seven here and they I wake up at six or seven here and they they agreed to but they did look at me a they agreed to but they did look at me a they agreed to but they did look at me a little bit from like it's very cold in little bit from like it's very cold in little bit from like it's very cold in in the morning here at 70. that's the in the morning here at 70. that's the in the morning here at 70. that's the point like that's the point just open point like that's the point just open point like that's the point just open the gate so I can take a plunge and so I the gate so I can take a plunge and so I the gate so I can take a plunge and so I did and it definitely helped me and I did and it definitely helped me and I did and it definitely helped me and I could just wait a little bit with the could just wait a little bit with the could just wait a little bit with the coffee coffee coffee um but yeah so cold is definitely um but yeah so cold is definitely um but yeah so cold is definitely something that could change your clock something that could change your clock something that could change your clock if you want to yeah and it may take a if you want to yeah and it may take a if you want to yeah and it may take a little effort or you might have to ask little effort or you might have to ask little effort or you might have to ask nicely but if you do that you know you nicely but if you do that you know you nicely but if you do that you know you can figure out places yeah what do you can figure out places yeah what do you can figure out places yeah what do you think about you know I sometimes I don't think about you know I sometimes I don't think about you know I sometimes I don't have access to my cold plunge

2:06have access to my cold plunge have access to my cold plunge um right now is one of those moments and um right now is one of those moments and um right now is one of those moments and I'll do cryotherapy which again just to I'll do cryotherapy which again just to I'll do cryotherapy which again just to put on the record it's expensive put on the record it's expensive put on the record it's expensive typically it's not accessible to a lot typically it's not accessible to a lot typically it's not accessible to a lot of people and for those that are not of people and for those that are not of people and for those that are not familiar it's basically you're walking familiar it's basically you're walking familiar it's basically you're walking into almost like a refrigerator type into almost like a refrigerator type into almost like a refrigerator type style unit and they're using nitrogen style unit and they're using nitrogen style unit and they're using nitrogen gas to essentially like chill the air gas to essentially like chill the air gas to essentially like chill the air and so you're walking into air that's and so you're walking into air that's and so you're walking into air that's usually around like negative 170 or 200 usually around like negative 170 or 200 usually around like negative 170 or 200 it has to get the air chill has to be a it has to get the air chill has to be a it has to get the air chill has to be a lot colder for you to feel it and then lot colder for you to feel it and then lot colder for you to feel it and then typically you can stay inside for typically you can stay inside for typically you can stay inside for usually it's like up to like three three usually it's like up to like three three usually it's like up to like three three and a half minutes that are there and a half minutes that are there and a half minutes that are there um I um I um I most of the research that's out there is most of the research that's out there is most of the research that's out there is on submergent it's not on these things on submergent it's not on these things on submergent it's not on these things like crowd therapy but what do you think like crowd therapy but what do you think like crowd therapy but what do you think about people using that as as a tool if about people using that as as a tool if about people using that as as a tool if they have access to that they have access to that they have access to that yeah if if people have access to that yeah if if people have access to that yeah if if people have access to that and I think that's that it could be and I think that's that it could be and I think that's that it could be something that we should also have some something that we should also have some something that we should also have some more literature around that I think we more literature around that I think we more literature around that I think we also just mentioned that we don't have also just mentioned that we don't have also just mentioned that we don't have much much much um science on this yet uh definitely not

2:07um science on this yet uh definitely not um science on this yet uh definitely not on the long term what what is this on the long term what what is this on the long term what what is this beneficial for is it is it in any way beneficial for is it is it in any way beneficial for is it is it in any way different from submerging yourself into different from submerging yourself into different from submerging yourself into cold water but what I think is cold water but what I think is cold water but what I think is interesting here is some studies on um interesting here is some studies on um interesting here is some studies on um on on the skin so it's like if you have on on the skin so it's like if you have on on the skin so it's like if you have eczema for example is it called that eczema for example is it called that eczema for example is it called that eczema eczema yeah um these studies show eczema eczema yeah um these studies show eczema eczema yeah um these studies show that that you will have an increase in that that you will have an increase in that that you will have an increase in in illness in illness in illness yeah okay good looking for the words yeah okay good looking for the words yeah okay good looking for the words sorry um sorry um sorry um and also it makes the the skin more and also it makes the the skin more and also it makes the the skin more moist and if you have eczema it seems moist and if you have eczema it seems moist and if you have eczema it seems that it's less itchy itchy the skin and that it's less itchy itchy the skin and that it's less itchy itchy the skin and less red in these subjects and this is less red in these subjects and this is less red in these subjects and this is tested in in children and also no not tested in in children and also no not tested in in children and also no not until in in adults uh yeah so I was just until in in adults uh yeah so I was just until in in adults uh yeah so I was just yeah doing doing cryotherapy could be yeah doing doing cryotherapy could be yeah doing doing cryotherapy could be beneficial for some people with eczema beneficial for some people with eczema beneficial for some people with eczema based on that study yes yeah and it based on that study yes yeah and it based on that study yes yeah and it seems like um there is also some studies seems like um there is also some studies

2:08seems like um there is also some studies showing that you showing that you showing that you maybe have some less um maybe have some less um maybe have some less um more youthful looking skin afterwards more youthful looking skin afterwards more youthful looking skin afterwards and less wrinkles but it's not really and less wrinkles but it's not really and less wrinkles but it's not really it's understudied I think yeah but it's understudied I think yeah but it's understudied I think yeah but there's a lot more claims out there on there's a lot more claims out there on there's a lot more claims out there on the internet than can be backed up with the internet than can be backed up with the internet than can be backed up with science I think but I think that when science I think but I think that when science I think but I think that when exposing your skin which is the main exposing your skin which is the main exposing your skin which is the main thing right it's too cold you will have thing right it's too cold you will have thing right it's too cold you will have some benefits and I would I would some benefits and I would I would some benefits and I would I would suspect that you will have some benefits suspect that you will have some benefits suspect that you will have some benefits also on the long term also maybe on the also on the long term also maybe on the also on the long term also maybe on the cardiovascular system but we don't know cardiovascular system but we don't know cardiovascular system but we don't know yet we have to look into that and really yet we have to look into that and really yet we have to look into that and really with your work it's really you know with your work it's really you know with your work it's really you know getting uncomfortably cold right and getting uncomfortably cold right and getting uncomfortably cold right and that is going to be a spectrum for that is going to be a spectrum for that is going to be a spectrum for people you're starting off you know people you're starting off you know people you're starting off you know you're that could be splashing your face you're that could be splashing your face you're that could be splashing your face with water if you're good with that then with water if you're good with that then with water if you're good with that then you may be going to like a bath with a you may be going to like a bath with a you may be going to like a bath with a little bit of ice inside of it if you're little bit of ice inside of it if you're little bit of ice inside of it if you're good with that you might go to like a good with that you might go to like a good with that you might go to like a full-on you know cold plunge or you full-on you know cold plunge or you full-on you know cold plunge or you might do some winter swimming but the might do some winter swimming but the might do some winter swimming but the goal is to get uncomfortably cold and to

2:09goal is to get uncomfortably cold and to goal is to get uncomfortably cold and to follow the protocol that you've you follow the protocol that you've you follow the protocol that you've you you've laid out over there right because you've laid out over there right because you've laid out over there right because that's what we what you know through that's what we what you know through that's what we what you know through your work and just what's available your work and just what's available your work and just what's available there that's really going to Target that there that's really going to Target that there that's really going to Target that brown fat which seems to be where the brown fat which seems to be where the brown fat which seems to be where the majority of the benefits so the question majority of the benefits so the question majority of the benefits so the question again with cryotherapy would be maybe again with cryotherapy would be maybe again with cryotherapy would be maybe somebody can do some research and see is somebody can do some research and see is somebody can do some research and see is brown fat activated in that same way brown fat activated in that same way brown fat activated in that same way exactly exactly and I think that the fat exactly exactly and I think that the fat exactly exactly and I think that the fat loss loss loss you can say angle of this is very that's you can say angle of this is very that's you can say angle of this is very that's very interesting I think because this is very interesting I think because this is very interesting I think because this is like the the Health crisis that we have like the the Health crisis that we have like the the Health crisis that we have is based on the inflammation so if we is based on the inflammation so if we is based on the inflammation so if we can Target the inflammation that's gonna can Target the inflammation that's gonna can Target the inflammation that's gonna decrease decrease decrease um um early mortality in the future and um um early mortality in the future and um um early mortality in the future and I think that I think that I think that there's actually a new study in in I there's actually a new study in in I there's actually a new study in in I just want to mention that because just want to mention that because just want to mention that because there's a new study from the Czech there's a new study from the Czech there's a new study from the Czech Republic showing that if you and this Republic showing that if you and this Republic showing that if you and this isn't soldiers they have both men and isn't soldiers they have both men and isn't soldiers they have both men and women this women in this study where women this women in this study where women this women in this study where they had 46 subjects in divided in two m they had 46 subjects in divided in two m they had 46 subjects in divided in two m a control group and also an

2:10a control group and also an a control group and also an Interventional group and they did one Interventional group and they did one Interventional group and they did one cold water immersion per week and five cold water immersion per week and five cold water immersion per week and five cold showers so the Cold War immersion cold showers so the Cold War immersion cold showers so the Cold War immersion was one to two minutes and the cold was one to two minutes and the cold was one to two minutes and the cold showers were 30 seconds each and five showers were 30 seconds each and five showers were 30 seconds each and five times per for one week and they saw times per for one week and they saw times per for one week and they saw after eight weeks that there was after eight weeks that there was after eight weeks that there was actually an um a significant increase in actually an um a significant increase in actually an um a significant increase in in fat loss in the in intervention group in fat loss in the in intervention group in fat loss in the in intervention group and also they got a lower waist and also they got a lower waist and also they got a lower waist circumference so I really think that if circumference so I really think that if circumference so I really think that if you don't overeat of course this is also you don't overeat of course this is also you don't overeat of course this is also about calorie intake right so this was about calorie intake right so this was about calorie intake right so this was very controlled in this study and that's very controlled in this study and that's very controlled in this study and that's why I think it's really good it's from why I think it's really good it's from why I think it's really good it's from the Czech Republic and published this the Czech Republic and published this the Czech Republic and published this year year year um I think that it can actually have we um I think that it can actually have we um I think that it can actually have we can measure this on on and later outcome can measure this on on and later outcome can measure this on on and later outcome so increasing the brown fat increasing so increasing the brown fat increasing so increasing the brown fat increasing our metabolism it should we should be our metabolism it should we should be our metabolism it should we should be able to see fat loss in the long run was able to see fat loss in the long run was

2:11able to see fat loss in the long run was this the study that Andrew posted about this the study that Andrew posted about this the study that Andrew posted about recently yes yes that was the one yeah recently yes yes that was the one yeah recently yes yes that was the one yeah Tessa can you bring up and huberman's Tessa can you bring up and huberman's Tessa can you bring up and huberman's Instagram just so we can have reference Instagram just so we can have reference Instagram just so we can have reference to it because I saw he also tagged you to it because I saw he also tagged you to it because I saw he also tagged you inside of there and I think he was inside of there and I think he was inside of there and I think he was saying that this study is building on saying that this study is building on saying that this study is building on top of the work yeah that you you've top of the work yeah that you you've top of the work yeah that you you've started out they also ended on the cold started out they also ended on the cold started out they also ended on the cold yeah I thought that was really really yeah I thought that was really really yeah I thought that was really really interesting because they're building on interesting because they're building on interesting because they're building on top of it and that's how research is top of it and that's how research is top of it and that's how research is done you do a first study yeah right and done you do a first study yeah right and done you do a first study yeah right and you proof of concept as you mentioned if you proof of concept as you mentioned if you proof of concept as you mentioned if you struggled for for years inside of you struggled for for years inside of you struggled for for years inside of the show notes it was really interesting the show notes it was really interesting the show notes it was really interesting as I Was preparing you were like ask me as I Was preparing you were like ask me as I Was preparing you were like ask me about why I took my you know it took me about why I took my you know it took me about why I took my you know it took me so much longer to do my PhD than normal so much longer to do my PhD than normal so much longer to do my PhD than normal right please but again that is because I right please but again that is because I right please but again that is because I really really want to like put out there really really want to like put out there really really want to like put out there that prevents a medicine yes really that prevents a medicine yes really that prevents a medicine yes really fight for it you had to fight for it fight for it you had to fight for it fight for it you had to fight for it it's understudy and it's not it's not it's understudy and it's not it's not it's understudy and it's not it's not put forward as something that we want in put forward as something that we want in put forward as something that we want in society but there's the skew it's skewed society but there's the skew it's skewed society but there's the skew it's skewed here because Society really wants this I here because Society really wants this I here because Society really wants this I think but the funding is not really the think but the funding is not really the think but the funding is not really the the focus in in in in our yeah politics the focus in in in in our yeah politics the focus in in in in our yeah politics maybe is not really there yet but it's

2:12maybe is not really there yet but it's maybe is not really there yet but it's it's starting it's starting and who's it's starting it's starting and who's it's starting it's starting and who's your main uh who is your main funder was your main uh who is your main funder was your main uh who is your main funder was it like the equivalent of the National it like the equivalent of the National it like the equivalent of the National Institute of Health for Denmark or who Institute of Health for Denmark or who Institute of Health for Denmark or who was the main person that gave you was the main person that gave you was the main person that gave you funding so who eventually ended up funding so who eventually ended up funding so who eventually ended up giving me my funding for myself it is it giving me my funding for myself it is it giving me my funding for myself it is it is it's always public what who funds who is it's always public what who funds who is it's always public what who funds who and that was the novel notice fund and that was the novel notice fund and that was the novel notice fund Foundation what was Foundation no no Foundation what was Foundation no no Foundation what was Foundation no no disk Foundation okay so Novo Nordisk the disk Foundation okay so Novo Nordisk the disk Foundation okay so Novo Nordisk the medical company the medical company but medical company the medical company but medical company the medical company but it's not it's not the same as the it's not it's not the same as the it's not it's not the same as the foundation it's something different from foundation it's something different from foundation it's something different from that but they supported this and I that but they supported this and I that but they supported this and I really think that is amazing and I'm really think that is amazing and I'm really think that is amazing and I'm very grateful that they did because it very grateful that they did because it very grateful that they did because it was just at the end I was like oh my God was just at the end I was like oh my God was just at the end I was like oh my God this has taken two and a half years of this has taken two and a half years of this has taken two and a half years of just sending an application out and just sending an application out and just sending an application out and another one and another one and just another one and another one and just another one and another one and just rejection upon Rejection it was just so rejection upon Rejection it was just so rejection upon Rejection it was just so many at I think I was stressed at the many at I think I was stressed at the many at I think I was stressed at the end of that and then a week or two later end of that and then a week or two later end of that and then a week or two later after I told my my supervisor I can I after I told my my supervisor I can I after I told my my supervisor I can I can continue like this I almost did a

2:13can continue like this I almost did a can continue like this I almost did a PhD before my PhD PhD before my PhD PhD before my PhD and they agreed that it was it was not and they agreed that it was it was not and they agreed that it was it was not really good and we need to think about really good and we need to think about really good and we need to think about how we write these applications how we write these applications how we write these applications um and of course we have done that we um and of course we have done that we um and of course we have done that we have Rewritten everything but yeah but have Rewritten everything but yeah but have Rewritten everything but yeah but then I finally got it and I was so happy then I finally got it and I was so happy then I finally got it and I was so happy and even for just just again because I and even for just just again because I and even for just just again because I think there's a lot of people who are think there's a lot of people who are think there's a lot of people who are listening here who are in healthcare listening here who are in healthcare listening here who are in healthcare there's a lot of people who are there's a lot of people who are there's a lot of people who are listening who are in entrepreneurship listening who are in entrepreneurship listening who are in entrepreneurship and and they even think about like this and and they even think about like this and and they even think about like this this system needs to change for you know this system needs to change for you know this system needs to change for you know raising money for for research right and raising money for for research right and raising money for for research right and you've created a whole Institute which you've created a whole Institute which you've created a whole Institute which I'd love to talk about as well that's I'd love to talk about as well that's I'd love to talk about as well that's part of it part of it part of it um for even a small proof of concept um for even a small proof of concept um for even a small proof of concept study like this but that is looking very study like this but that is looking very study like this but that is looking very deeply at a lot of markers deeply at a lot of markers deeply at a lot of markers you know how much does something like you know how much does something like you know how much does something like that cost right like how much would have that cost right like how much would have that cost right like how much would have that cost to even just do something like that cost to even just do something like that cost to even just do something like that I'm just trying to give people a that I'm just trying to give people a that I'm just trying to give people a sense of that you know these studies are sense of that you know these studies are sense of that you know these studies are quite an undertaking yeah it's it's quite an undertaking yeah it's it's quite an undertaking yeah it's it's millions of Danish krona so that's like millions of Danish krona so that's like millions of Danish krona so that's like it's it's it's it's hundreds of thousand uh dollars yeah so

2:14hundreds of thousand uh dollars yeah so hundreds of thousand uh dollars yeah so it's it's really really expensive also it's it's really really expensive also it's it's really really expensive also because when we do studies like this we because when we do studies like this we because when we do studies like this we have to also for example do the pet MRI have to also for example do the pet MRI have to also for example do the pet MRI scanning right which is super expensive scanning right which is super expensive scanning right which is super expensive and it's hugely costly to to do this and it's hugely costly to to do this and it's hugely costly to to do this kind of examination which normal people kind of examination which normal people kind of examination which normal people don't have access to so we cannot really don't have access to so we cannot really don't have access to so we cannot really measure any people's Brown fat but and measure any people's Brown fat but and measure any people's Brown fat but and we also have the cooling system which I we also have the cooling system which I we also have the cooling system which I used used used um and had to customize a lot of this um and had to customize a lot of this um and had to customize a lot of this kind of gear that I was using because I kind of gear that I was using because I kind of gear that I was using because I was also customizing how to measure was also customizing how to measure was also customizing how to measure muscles shivering and so together with muscles shivering and so together with muscles shivering and so together with an engineer I I put up I studied the an engineer I I put up I studied the an engineer I I put up I studied the body on on which muscles were shivering body on on which muscles were shivering body on on which muscles were shivering first when we get cold and so you know first when we get cold and so you know first when we get cold and so you know there's just a lot of things that people there's just a lot of things that people there's just a lot of things that people don't think maybe about that it takes up don't think maybe about that it takes up don't think maybe about that it takes up like a lot of money to do all the blood like a lot of money to do all the blood like a lot of money to do all the blood sampling and also staff I had a whole sampling and also staff I had a whole sampling and also staff I had a whole group with me some of them students of

2:15group with me some of them students of group with me some of them students of course and which I was tutoring during course and which I was tutoring during course and which I was tutoring during the day but also we had to hire people the day but also we had to hire people the day but also we had to hire people to help also just be there to take all to help also just be there to take all to help also just be there to take all the blood samples because we have to of the blood samples because we have to of the blood samples because we have to of course took a lot we wanted to go deep course took a lot we wanted to go deep course took a lot we wanted to go deep with a few subjects instead of like with a few subjects instead of like with a few subjects instead of like going broad with a lot of subjects so to going broad with a lot of subjects so to going broad with a lot of subjects so to do the the concept proof of concept yeah do the the concept proof of concept yeah do the the concept proof of concept yeah well I mean since the studies come out well I mean since the studies come out well I mean since the studies come out there and there's been so much attention there and there's been so much attention there and there's been so much attention that's been placed on your work and that's been placed on your work and that's been placed on your work and literature and you know I I so literature and you know I I so literature and you know I I so appreciate researchers like yourself who appreciate researchers like yourself who appreciate researchers like yourself who you know write books and and and and go you know write books and and and and go you know write books and and and and go on podcasts which is not an easy thing on podcasts which is not an easy thing on podcasts which is not an easy thing to do right you have your normal life to do right you have your normal life to do right you have your normal life you also have your family you're married you also have your family you're married you also have your family you're married you have kids you know but to make time you have kids you know but to make time you have kids you know but to make time for these things because it's really for these things because it's really for these things because it's really making the literature more accessible to making the literature more accessible to making the literature more accessible to people right but has all this momentum people right but has all this momentum people right but has all this momentum and being mentioned on Joe Rogan and and being mentioned on Joe Rogan and and being mentioned on Joe Rogan and other things and of course Andrew other things and of course Andrew other things and of course Andrew huberman who's one of your biggest huberman who's one of your biggest huberman who's one of your biggest Champions has it brought more attention Champions has it brought more attention Champions has it brought more attention to the Institute and tell us a little to the Institute and tell us a little to the Institute and tell us a little bit more about the Institute and some of bit more about the Institute and some of bit more about the Institute and some of some of its goals

2:16some of its goals some of its goals yeah um yeah I think that I I'm so happy yeah um yeah I think that I I'm so happy yeah um yeah I think that I I'm so happy that I got mentioned on The Joe Rogan that I got mentioned on The Joe Rogan that I got mentioned on The Joe Rogan and that was actually a professor Andrew and that was actually a professor Andrew and that was actually a professor Andrew hooperman who did that and and talked hooperman who did that and and talked hooperman who did that and and talked about our research and I'm so grateful about our research and I'm so grateful about our research and I'm so grateful for that because that's really uh I for that because that's really uh I for that because that's really uh I don't think that he at that time knew don't think that he at that time knew don't think that he at that time knew that one of my goals is to actually talk that one of my goals is to actually talk that one of my goals is to actually talk about this and I really wanted to to about this and I really wanted to to about this and I really wanted to to promote this and tell people what's promote this and tell people what's promote this and tell people what's going on and how to do this in a healthy going on and how to do this in a healthy going on and how to do this in a healthy way and how maybe not to do it and what way and how maybe not to do it and what way and how maybe not to do it and what is what is actually maybe the higher is what is actually maybe the higher is what is actually maybe the higher threshold for this and and so forth so threshold for this and and so forth so threshold for this and and so forth so uh that kind of like helped me a lot to uh that kind of like helped me a lot to uh that kind of like helped me a lot to get also a podcast like here uh talking get also a podcast like here uh talking get also a podcast like here uh talking to you now and I I'm not really sure to you now and I I'm not really sure to you now and I I'm not really sure that would have happened if if that he that would have happened if if that he that would have happened if if that he didn't really totally yeah I think that didn't really totally yeah I think that didn't really totally yeah I think that really helped me a lot definitely I also really helped me a lot definitely I also really helped me a lot definitely I also have my books of course and that have my books of course and that have my books of course and that happened before that but um and it's out happened before that but um and it's out happened before that but um and it's out in 13 languages winter swimming but I in 13 languages winter swimming but I in 13 languages winter swimming but I think it really has helped me and put a think it really has helped me and put a think it really has helped me and put a lot of attention on

2:17lot of attention on lot of attention on um also all the years that I have um also all the years that I have um also all the years that I have studied and what I know today studied and what I know today studied and what I know today um and the reason why I opened my um and the reason why I opened my um and the reason why I opened my Institute superg Institute is because I Institute superg Institute is because I Institute superg Institute is because I see that a lot of people have many see that a lot of people have many see that a lot of people have many questions how to do this right how to do questions how to do this right how to do questions how to do this right how to do is healthy how can I I start this and is healthy how can I I start this and is healthy how can I I start this and also there's also a lot of people maybe also there's also a lot of people maybe also there's also a lot of people maybe doing it too much or doing it extremely doing it too much or doing it extremely doing it too much or doing it extremely so it's always there when you start when so it's always there when you start when so it's always there when you start when something new has started right a trend something new has started right a trend something new has started right a trend or something then you of course had or something then you of course had or something then you of course had people just go ahead and maybe overdo it people just go ahead and maybe overdo it people just go ahead and maybe overdo it a bit like maybe with the sauna 30 a bit like maybe with the sauna 30 a bit like maybe with the sauna 30 minutes and then be on that so not to minutes and then be on that so not to minutes and then be on that so not to you can say to well to teach people how you can say to well to teach people how you can say to well to teach people how to do this in a healthy way how to get to do this in a healthy way how to get to do this in a healthy way how to get started but also I think those coaches started but also I think those coaches started but also I think those coaches out there and trainers who would out there and trainers who would out there and trainers who would instructors who would love to teach this instructors who would love to teach this instructors who would love to teach this in a healthy way and we need this for in a healthy way and we need this for in a healthy way and we need this for the future to increase our preventive the future to increase our preventive the future to increase our preventive medicine and increase people knowledge medicine and increase people knowledge medicine and increase people knowledge around how can you stay healthy and that

2:18around how can you stay healthy and that around how can you stay healthy and that is what I want to teach in soberg is what I want to teach in soberg is what I want to teach in soberg Institute so Institute so Institute so um I have created a course there to um I have created a course there to um I have created a course there to for the end user so they can get started for the end user so they can get started for the end user so they can get started with this it's a 21 days course so both with this it's a 21 days course so both with this it's a 21 days course so both on breath work and cold and heat on breath work and cold and heat on breath work and cold and heat exposure how to do this in very exposure how to do this in very exposure how to do this in very bite-sized videos that I put out there bite-sized videos that I put out there bite-sized videos that I put out there um yeah it's very step by step very step um yeah it's very step by step very step um yeah it's very step by step very step by step and and Layman language by step and and Layman language by step and and Layman language everybody can follow this and already everybody can follow this and already everybody can follow this and already got really good reviews also so I'm got really good reviews also so I'm got really good reviews also so I'm really happy that because I've never really happy that because I've never really happy that because I've never done a course before but yeah I know how done a course before but yeah I know how done a course before but yeah I know how to talk to to people about what is good to talk to to people about what is good to talk to to people about what is good what is not so good so I I think that what is not so good so I I think that what is not so good so I I think that that it was really important for me to that it was really important for me to that it was really important for me to to put that course out but the education to put that course out but the education to put that course out but the education is definitely also important for getting is definitely also important for getting is definitely also important for getting the knowledge out and getting people the knowledge out and getting people the knowledge out and getting people healthier so I I'm looking forward to do healthier so I I'm looking forward to do healthier so I I'm looking forward to do to do the education as well yeah it's to do the education as well yeah it's to do the education as well yeah it's it's fascinating and I I just love to it's fascinating and I I just love to it's fascinating and I I just love to see the trajectory and to see you shine see the trajectory and to see you shine see the trajectory and to see you shine and you're also really good about and you're also really good about and you're also really good about putting out content on Instagram and

2:19putting out content on Instagram and putting out content on Instagram and people can follow you over there so it's people can follow you over there so it's people can follow you over there so it's you know we have to make this practical you know we have to make this practical you know we have to make this practical we have to make this exciting lighting we have to make this exciting lighting we have to make this exciting lighting right it should be fun the health should right it should be fun the health should right it should be fun the health should be be be fun to do and in fact that's a that's a fun to do and in fact that's a that's a fun to do and in fact that's a that's a big through line through the the winter big through line through the the winter big through line through the the winter swimming is like you know you talk about swimming is like you know you talk about swimming is like you know you talk about it be sure you can do it yourself but a it be sure you can do it yourself but a it be sure you can do it yourself but a lot of people choose to do it in in a lot of people choose to do it in in a lot of people choose to do it in in a group setting yeah because I've also group setting yeah because I've also group setting yeah because I've also found that if you you're more likely to found that if you you're more likely to found that if you you're more likely to be accountable if your friends are also be accountable if your friends are also be accountable if your friends are also doing it as well yeah right there's the doing it as well yeah right there's the doing it as well yeah right there's the big uh research from the Framingham big uh research from the Framingham big uh research from the Framingham studies yeah right the Framingham cohort studies yeah right the Framingham cohort studies yeah right the Framingham cohort out of uh Massachusetts and there was out of uh Massachusetts and there was out of uh Massachusetts and there was one on one on one on um you know the for those that are not um you know the for those that are not um you know the for those that are not following I've mentioned this before but following I've mentioned this before but following I've mentioned this before but this is over I think like 50 years that this is over I think like 50 years that this is over I think like 50 years that they had been looking at these you know they had been looking at these you know they had been looking at these you know at least the first cohort so they've at least the first cohort so they've at least the first cohort so they've been extrapolating out the data been extrapolating out the data been extrapolating out the data and spinning it off and looking at all and spinning it off and looking at all and spinning it off and looking at all these endpoints that they've been these endpoints that they've been these endpoints that they've been measuring and one of the end points was measuring and one of the end points was measuring and one of the end points was is that if your best friend becomes is that if your best friend becomes is that if your best friend becomes obese or starts to head towards obesity obese or starts to head towards obesity obese or starts to head towards obesity you're more likely you're twice is more you're more likely you're twice is more you're more likely you're twice is more likely to head towards obesity yourself

2:20likely to head towards obesity yourself likely to head towards obesity yourself even more than the influence of your even more than the influence of your even more than the influence of your husband or wife or child ends up heading husband or wife or child ends up heading husband or wife or child ends up heading towards obesity and it just shows us The towards obesity and it just shows us The towards obesity and it just shows us The Influence that our friends have on us Influence that our friends have on us Influence that our friends have on us we're more likely to follow our friends we're more likely to follow our friends we're more likely to follow our friends recommendation that our that our wife's recommendation that our that our wife's recommendation that our that our wife's recommendation or our husband's recommendation or our husband's recommendation or our husband's recommendation I don't know that's a recommendation I don't know that's a recommendation I don't know that's a good big or bad thing but you know we good big or bad thing but you know we good big or bad thing but you know we like to be liked by our friends this is like to be liked by our friends this is like to be liked by our friends this is why I lived in New York City for a why I lived in New York City for a why I lived in New York City for a little while if you're in New York little while if you're in New York little while if you're in New York there's a big drinking culture that's there's a big drinking culture that's there's a big drinking culture that's there so if everybody every night is there so if everybody every night is there so if everybody every night is going out to drink you know just for going out to drink you know just for going out to drink you know just for like even if you're just meeting up to like even if you're just meeting up to like even if you're just meeting up to talk a little bit about something we're talk a little bit about something we're talk a little bit about something we're in La it's a little bit more like you in La it's a little bit more like you in La it's a little bit more like you know coffee in the morning or green know coffee in the morning or green know coffee in the morning or green juice or there's a big culture in L.A of juice or there's a big culture in L.A of juice or there's a big culture in L.A of hiking even for like meetings people hiking even for like meetings people hiking even for like meetings people will say what's going on let's go on a will say what's going on let's go on a will say what's going on let's go on a hike yeah walk and talk if everybody's hike yeah walk and talk if everybody's hike yeah walk and talk if everybody's doing that then you're more likely to do doing that then you're more likely to do doing that then you're more likely to do it exactly so I think doing this with it exactly so I think doing this with it exactly so I think doing this with other people is also a way to ensure other people is also a way to ensure other people is also a way to ensure that there's sustainability that's that there's sustainability that's that there's sustainability that's inside of it yeah that's another I think inside of it yeah that's another I think inside of it yeah that's another I think in what you're saying is so so that yeah

2:21in what you're saying is so so that yeah in what you're saying is so so that yeah when looking for friends then friends when looking for friends then friends when looking for friends then friends yeah when you find friends then also yeah when you find friends then also yeah when you find friends then also look for healthy friends if you want to look for healthy friends if you want to look for healthy friends if you want to be healthy then be around healthy people be healthy then be around healthy people be healthy then be around healthy people it's really something that's going to it's really something that's going to it's really something that's going to affect you right it's so true so yeah affect you right it's so true so yeah affect you right it's so true so yeah and when you do when you go winter and when you do when you go winter and when you do when you go winter swimming swimming swimming um you will you will be likely to do um you will you will be likely to do um you will you will be likely to do what they do right so if you want to win what they do right so if you want to win what they do right so if you want to win to swim then maybe or cold plunge then to swim then maybe or cold plunge then to swim then maybe or cold plunge then find other people who do that because find other people who do that because find other people who do that because they're going to motivate you they're they're going to motivate you they're they're going to motivate you they're going to make sure that you also do it going to make sure that you also do it going to make sure that you also do it and tell you how they feel down the road and tell you how they feel down the road and tell you how they feel down the road because they already adapted maybe so because they already adapted maybe so because they already adapted maybe so finding other people to mirror yourself finding other people to mirror yourself finding other people to mirror yourself in is very important I think that there in is very important I think that there in is very important I think that there was one random thing that you had was one random thing that you had was one random thing that you had brought up in in one of your interviews brought up in in one of your interviews brought up in in one of your interviews and I was actually curious to ask you and I was actually curious to ask you and I was actually curious to ask you about that is you actually found there about that is you actually found there about that is you actually found there was kind of one individual in your group was kind of one individual in your group was kind of one individual in your group that didn't have any brown fat oh yeah that didn't have any brown fat oh yeah that didn't have any brown fat oh yeah right yeah I thought that was okay what right yeah I thought that was okay what right yeah I thought that was okay what what's going on with that person because what's going on with that person because what's going on with that person because again this is a young male yeah right again this is a young male yeah right again this is a young male yeah right was he too lean that he hadn't had Brown was he too lean that he hadn't had Brown was he too lean that he hadn't had Brown fat do you know what led to him not

2:22fat do you know what led to him not fat do you know what led to him not having Brown fat and was he able to get having Brown fat and was he able to get having Brown fat and was he able to get more Brown fat later on by practicing more Brown fat later on by practicing more Brown fat later on by practicing this protocol what did you find so he this protocol what did you find so he this protocol what did you find so he was a winter swimmer and I think that is was a winter swimmer and I think that is was a winter swimmer and I think that is what's the most surprising thing about what's the most surprising thing about what's the most surprising thing about this okay got it yeah he was just a sort this okay got it yeah he was just a sort this okay got it yeah he was just a sort of outlier in a way he was an outlier of outlier in a way he was an outlier of outlier in a way he was an outlier and he was what is in this in the paper and he was what is in this in the paper and he was what is in this in the paper we called we called the subject because we called we called the subject because we called we called the subject because we we have to label them a little bit we we have to label them a little bit we we have to label them a little bit and that's normally not what you do with and that's normally not what you do with and that's normally not what you do with people but he was like a person with no people but he was like a person with no people but he was like a person with no Brown fat so a brown fat negative so and Brown fat so a brown fat negative so and Brown fat so a brown fat negative so and we know that from other studies before we know that from other studies before we know that from other studies before mine that some people don't have brown mine that some people don't have brown mine that some people don't have brown fat so just on a genetic level so you fat so just on a genetic level so you fat so just on a genetic level so you cannot really increase the brown fat if cannot really increase the brown fat if cannot really increase the brown fat if you don't have it so there's gonna be you don't have it so there's gonna be you don't have it so there's gonna be some percentages which I don't know what some percentages which I don't know what some percentages which I don't know what that is but there's gonna be some people that is but there's gonna be some people that is but there's gonna be some people who really don't have that who really don't have that who really don't have that um and well I observed in him was that um and well I observed in him was that um and well I observed in him was that he could not tolerate the cold at all

2:23he could not tolerate the cold at all he could not tolerate the cold at all even though he was adapted in other even though he was adapted in other even though he was adapted in other physiological parameters which is physiological parameters which is physiological parameters which is vasoconstriction and also vasoconstriction and also vasoconstriction and also um um he could he of course got all the the he could he of course got all the the he could he of course got all the the metabolism going but from the muscles metabolism going but from the muscles metabolism going but from the muscles and that was the way earlier than the and that was the way earlier than the and that was the way earlier than the other subjects so when I called him he other subjects so when I called him he other subjects so when I called him he started to shiver way before he should started to shiver way before he should started to shiver way before he should or I expected him to do compared to the or I expected him to do compared to the or I expected him to do compared to the other subjects so he was definitely more other subjects so he was definitely more other subjects so he was definitely more difficult for me to control in in the difficult for me to control in in the difficult for me to control in in the laboratory setting Where I Was cooling laboratory setting Where I Was cooling laboratory setting Where I Was cooling them for three hours uh mild cooling it them for three hours uh mild cooling it them for three hours uh mild cooling it was cold but eventually they got really was cold but eventually they got really was cold but eventually they got really cold cold cold yeah that's how we do it sounds a bit yeah that's how we do it sounds a bit yeah that's how we do it sounds a bit brutal yeah they volunteered brutal yeah they volunteered brutal yeah they volunteered so but he really really wanted to be so but he really really wanted to be so but he really really wanted to be part of the study and he was also a part of the study and he was also a part of the study and he was also a winter swimmer and he loved it and I winter swimmer and he loved it and I winter swimmer and he loved it and I think that it also kept him warmer think that it also kept him warmer think that it also kept him warmer because he increased the metabolism in

2:24because he increased the metabolism in because he increased the metabolism in his in his muscles but when we did the his in his muscles but when we did the his in his muscles but when we did the PET CT scanning and I was already a PET CT scanning and I was already a PET CT scanning and I was already a little bit like awake when we went to little bit like awake when we went to little bit like awake when we went to the Pet City scanning with him I was the Pet City scanning with him I was the Pet City scanning with him I was like like that was difficult to control I was that was difficult to control I was that was difficult to control I was really working hard for this one and really working hard for this one and really working hard for this one and then we scanned him and I thought that then we scanned him and I thought that then we scanned him and I thought that was a mistake so there was no Brown fat was a mistake so there was no Brown fat was a mistake so there was no Brown fat and I was like can you just scan him and I was like can you just scan him and I was like can you just scan him again look through them I don't again look through them I don't again look through them I don't understand so we do redo the study or understand so we do redo the study or understand so we do redo the study or what what happened and then the pet city what what happened and then the pet city what what happened and then the pet city um Department the doctors who were also um Department the doctors who were also um Department the doctors who were also part of the study from Copenhagen Jesus part of the study from Copenhagen Jesus part of the study from Copenhagen Jesus Patel the Copenhagen Hospital Patel the Copenhagen Hospital Patel the Copenhagen Hospital they analyzed the pictures again and they analyzed the pictures again and they analyzed the pictures again and found that that was just no Brown fat found that that was just no Brown fat found that that was just no Brown fat even though it was cold enough and he even though it was cold enough and he even though it was cold enough and he was not shivering at the point where we was not shivering at the point where we was not shivering at the point where we scanned him but he did shiver a bit when scanned him but he did shiver a bit when scanned him but he did shiver a bit when when we were in the when we were in the when we were in the um in the laboratory just testing and

2:25um in the laboratory just testing and um in the laboratory just testing and cooling him down but I had to have him cooling him down but I had to have him cooling him down but I had to have him at a higher degree of temperature than at a higher degree of temperature than at a higher degree of temperature than all the others so if you don't have any all the others so if you don't have any all the others so if you don't have any brown fat you could which is not going brown fat you could which is not going brown fat you could which is not going to be most people right it's not going to be most people right it's not going to be most people right it's not going to be most people it's an outlier it's to be most people it's an outlier it's to be most people it's an outlier it's definitely an outlier but it really definitely an outlier but it really definitely an outlier but it really shows that the winter swimmer the rest shows that the winter swimmer the rest shows that the winter swimmer the rest of the winter swimming group had a of the winter swimming group had a of the winter swimming group had a higher resilience absolutely they didn't higher resilience absolutely they didn't higher resilience absolutely they didn't shiver absolutely not compared to the shiver absolutely not compared to the shiver absolutely not compared to the control group so this winter swimmer control group so this winter swimmer control group so this winter swimmer were very much more alike the control were very much more alike the control were very much more alike the control group when it comes to shivering and group when it comes to shivering and group when it comes to shivering and also his metabolism also his metabolism also his metabolism um so that was kind of like a little bit um so that was kind of like a little bit um so that was kind of like a little bit of a proof of a concept in in the study of a proof of a concept in in the study of a proof of a concept in in the study also that I could see that his also that I could see that his also that I could see that his metabolism were more like the control metabolism were more like the control metabolism were more like the control group and uh and he didn't have that group and uh and he didn't have that group and uh and he didn't have that insulin sensitivity like the winter insulin sensitivity like the winter insulin sensitivity like the winter swimmers did and he didn't have swimmers did and he didn't have swimmers did and he didn't have um the fast glucose um the fast glucose um the fast glucose um uh clearance as the rest of the um uh clearance as the rest of the um uh clearance as the rest of the winter swimmers but this is based on N1 winter swimmers but this is based on N1 winter swimmers but this is based on N1 right so it's it's really not something right so it's it's really not something right so it's it's really not something that I can say is going to be if you

2:26that I can say is going to be if you that I can say is going to be if you can't say too much about it and it's not can't say too much about it and it's not can't say too much about it and it's not going to apply to most people but it was going to apply to most people but it was going to apply to most people but it was just interesting that yeah it's an just interesting that yeah it's an just interesting that yeah it's an interesting observation sometimes we interesting observation sometimes we interesting observation sometimes we call this a case study so yeah it could call this a case study so yeah it could call this a case study so yeah it could it could lead to um other studies and it could lead to um other studies and it could lead to um other studies and that's why it's it could be interesting that's why it's it could be interesting that's why it's it could be interesting also good to talk about it yeah also good to talk about it yeah also good to talk about it yeah absolutely but but again most people are absolutely but but again most people are absolutely but but again most people are going to have some brown fat and most going to have some brown fat and most going to have some brown fat and most people can get better through cold people can get better through cold people can get better through cold exposure deliberate cold exposure and of exposure deliberate cold exposure and of exposure deliberate cold exposure and of course some heat exposure too if they course some heat exposure too if they course some heat exposure too if they want to inside of that protocol that you want to inside of that protocol that you want to inside of that protocol that you had in your study which is going to had in your study which is going to had in your study which is going to allow them not only to get a little bit allow them not only to get a little bit allow them not only to get a little bit more Brown fat like have you measured more Brown fat like have you measured more Brown fat like have you measured like how much more Brown fat people like how much more Brown fat people like how much more Brown fat people because it's not just about adding Brown because it's not just about adding Brown because it's not just about adding Brown fat it's about activating Brown fat is fat it's about activating Brown fat is fat it's about activating Brown fat is that right it's activating yeah can you that right it's activating yeah can you that right it's activating yeah can you actually grow the amount of brown fat actually grow the amount of brown fat actually grow the amount of brown fat that you have in your body too yeah so that you have in your body too yeah so that you have in your body too yeah so this is this has been studied also in in this is this has been studied also in in this is this has been studied also in in rodent studies but it's also studied in rodent studies but it's also studied in rodent studies but it's also studied in in in humans so exposing yourself to in in humans so exposing yourself to in in humans so exposing yourself to cold even cold air temperature you can cold even cold air temperature you can cold even cold air temperature you can you can increase the amount of brown fat you can increase the amount of brown fat you can increase the amount of brown fat that you have so the volume right but

2:27that you have so the volume right but that you have so the volume right but you can also increase the efficiency of you can also increase the efficiency of you can also increase the efficiency of the brown fat cells which I think was the brown fat cells which I think was the brown fat cells which I think was mostly what we saw with our winter mostly what we saw with our winter mostly what we saw with our winter swimmers in my study so it seems that if swimmers in my study so it seems that if swimmers in my study so it seems that if we measured the volume of the brown fat we measured the volume of the brown fat we measured the volume of the brown fat in the winter swim as compared to the in the winter swim as compared to the in the winter swim as compared to the control group that didn't have more control group that didn't have more control group that didn't have more volume of the brown fat but it was more volume of the brown fat but it was more volume of the brown fat but it was more efficient at heating up so more efficient at heating up so more efficient at heating up so more activation of the mitochondria in the activation of the mitochondria in the activation of the mitochondria in the cell will then increase the temperature cell will then increase the temperature cell will then increase the temperature and that's going to increase your and that's going to increase your and that's going to increase your metabolism and your thermogenesis so we metabolism and your thermogenesis so we metabolism and your thermogenesis so we saw that they were warmer and this is saw that they were warmer and this is saw that they were warmer and this is one of the I think main outcomes of this one of the I think main outcomes of this one of the I think main outcomes of this study is that you will have more study is that you will have more study is that you will have more efficient Brown fat and you will have efficient Brown fat and you will have efficient Brown fat and you will have increased metabolism but also you will increased metabolism but also you will increased metabolism but also you will be physically warmer yeah and who be physically warmer yeah and who be physically warmer yeah and who doesn't want that and in the future what doesn't want that and in the future what doesn't want that and in the future what would be some wish list of a few studies would be some wish list of a few studies would be some wish list of a few studies that you think that either you would that you think that either you would that you think that either you would want to build on or maybe somebody else want to build on or maybe somebody else want to build on or maybe somebody else to look at to see I think you mentioned to look at to see I think you mentioned to look at to see I think you mentioned a little bit about you know the weight a little bit about you know the weight a little bit about you know the weight loss component is that with also you loss component is that with also you loss component is that with also you know a calorie component because we have know a calorie component because we have know a calorie component because we have to watch out how many total calories we to watch out how many total calories we to watch out how many total calories we have yeah would you love to see a study

2:28have yeah would you love to see a study have yeah would you love to see a study of somebody doing to see like Ken cold of somebody doing to see like Ken cold of somebody doing to see like Ken cold activation be part of the process of activation be part of the process of activation be part of the process of reducing body weight and improving body reducing body weight and improving body reducing body weight and improving body composition is that something absolutely composition is that something absolutely composition is that something absolutely and I think it that would be very and I think it that would be very and I think it that would be very interesting to to follow in the future I interesting to to follow in the future I interesting to to follow in the future I know that our study working on this but know that our study working on this but know that our study working on this but I also think that the mental health I also think that the mental health I also think that the mental health component of this yeah it's also a very component of this yeah it's also a very component of this yeah it's also a very interesting side of this so it's not interesting side of this so it's not interesting side of this so it's not only the the metabolism but the only the the metabolism but the only the the metabolism but the metabolism is like the the ground thing metabolism is like the the ground thing metabolism is like the the ground thing I think when we can work on inflammation I think when we can work on inflammation I think when we can work on inflammation and we can decrease inflammation you are and we can decrease inflammation you are and we can decrease inflammation you are working on your mental health at the working on your mental health at the working on your mental health at the same time because same time because same time because inflammation increases the risk of inflammation increases the risk of inflammation increases the risk of neurological diseases right so neurological diseases right so neurological diseases right so Alzheimer's disease depression anxiety Alzheimer's disease depression anxiety Alzheimer's disease depression anxiety so we know that if we can decrease so we know that if we can decrease so we know that if we can decrease inflammation in the body by activating inflammation in the body by activating inflammation in the body by activating for example the brown fat then you will for example the brown fat then you will for example the brown fat then you will have a lower risk of those diseases as have a lower risk of those diseases as have a lower risk of those diseases as well I think it will be very interesting well I think it will be very interesting well I think it will be very interesting not only to look at the preventive side not only to look at the preventive side not only to look at the preventive side but also but also but also um to see if we can even cure depression

2:29um to see if we can even cure depression um to see if we can even cure depression can we cure anxiety can we cure can we cure anxiety can we cure can we cure anxiety can we cure um yeah type 2 diabetes even so not only um yeah type 2 diabetes even so not only um yeah type 2 diabetes even so not only from a preventive side which I have been from a preventive side which I have been from a preventive side which I have been working on so the basic science of this working on so the basic science of this working on so the basic science of this but I hope that this could be like uh but I hope that this could be like uh but I hope that this could be like uh what you call it like a a stepping stone what you call it like a a stepping stone what you call it like a a stepping stone right yeah to studies looking also to right yeah to studies looking also to right yeah to studies looking also to see if this can cure something it's see if this can cure something it's see if this can cure something it's different physiology is different when different physiology is different when different physiology is different when you have a disease right so it's you have a disease right so it's you have a disease right so it's interesting to see if your metabolism interesting to see if your metabolism interesting to see if your metabolism will will be activated enough and if you will will be activated enough and if you will will be activated enough and if you can like yeah increase your sense can like yeah increase your sense can like yeah increase your sense insulin sensitivity once you have insulin sensitivity once you have insulin sensitivity once you have diabetes and just exposing yourself to diabetes and just exposing yourself to diabetes and just exposing yourself to cold and what protocol should you use is cold and what protocol should you use is cold and what protocol should you use is it more or is it yeah it's probably more it more or is it yeah it's probably more it more or is it yeah it's probably more or is it the same is that enough so or is it the same is that enough so or is it the same is that enough so there are many questions for a lot of there are many questions for a lot of there are many questions for a lot of years of research yes a lot of years of years of research yes a lot of years of years of research yes a lot of years of research a beautiful career on top of

2:30research a beautiful career on top of research a beautiful career on top of what's already been established and what's already been established and what's already been established and partly one thing that I'm really partly one thing that I'm really partly one thing that I'm really interested that I would hope in the interested that I would hope in the interested that I would hope in the future is that because funding is so future is that because funding is so future is that because funding is so hard to come across for researchers like hard to come across for researchers like hard to come across for researchers like yourself I would love to see more yourself I would love to see more yourself I would love to see more you know crowdfunding that's there right you know crowdfunding that's there right you know crowdfunding that's there right you see actually you see actually you see actually um do you know the podcaster Tim Ferriss um do you know the podcaster Tim Ferriss um do you know the podcaster Tim Ferriss Yeah Tim Fair show yeah he's he's done Yeah Tim Fair show yeah he's he's done Yeah Tim Fair show yeah he's he's done this a little bit with the psilocybin this a little bit with the psilocybin this a little bit with the psilocybin research right and some of the work on research right and some of the work on research right and some of the work on uh Dr Roland Griffiths yeah uh Dr Roland Griffiths yeah uh Dr Roland Griffiths yeah um and I believe it's uh Tim ferriss's um and I believe it's uh Tim ferriss's um and I believe it's uh Tim ferriss's Foundation is called the sen Sensai Foundation is called the sen Sensai Foundation is called the sen Sensai Foundation Foundation Foundation um but Dr Griffiths who's uh uh who um but Dr Griffiths who's uh uh who um but Dr Griffiths who's uh uh who unfortunately right now actually has unfortunately right now actually has unfortunately right now actually has terminal cancer uh I believe uh but he's terminal cancer uh I believe uh but he's terminal cancer uh I believe uh but he's been on this podcast before and he was been on this podcast before and he was been on this podcast before and he was one of the early sort of researchers in one of the early sort of researchers in one of the early sort of researchers in this more modern stage talking about the this more modern stage talking about the this more modern stage talking about the benefits of psilocybin but it was benefits of psilocybin but it was benefits of psilocybin but it was amazing to see that the community the amazing to see that the community the amazing to see that the community the people who are following you on people who are following you on people who are following you on Instagram following me following Andrew Instagram following me following Andrew Instagram following me following Andrew and Dr wrong and Chatterjee and all and Dr wrong and Chatterjee and all and Dr wrong and Chatterjee and all these individuals they want to see more these individuals they want to see more these individuals they want to see more of this research so is there a way for of this research so is there a way for of this research so is there a way for them to get involved in the funding and them to get involved in the funding and them to get involved in the funding and I'd love to see you know maybe you guys I'd love to see you know maybe you guys I'd love to see you know maybe you guys come up with it I'd love to share with

2:31come up with it I'd love to share with come up with it I'd love to share with my audience some sense of crowdfunding my audience some sense of crowdfunding my audience some sense of crowdfunding so we can get more of this literature so we can get more of this literature so we can get more of this literature out there from teams like yours that'd out there from teams like yours that'd out there from teams like yours that'd be really exciting yeah that is be really exciting yeah that is be really exciting yeah that is definitely something that I'm thinking definitely something that I'm thinking definitely something that I'm thinking about in in to do actually so that would about in in to do actually so that would about in in to do actually so that would be very interesting well keep us posted be very interesting well keep us posted be very interesting well keep us posted on it uh Dr Solberg this has been on it uh Dr Solberg this has been on it uh Dr Solberg this has been fascinating I so appreciate you uh fascinating I so appreciate you uh fascinating I so appreciate you uh coming on the podcast and coming on the podcast and coming on the podcast and chatting about your work sharing all the chatting about your work sharing all the chatting about your work sharing all the knowledge that you've had talking about knowledge that you've had talking about knowledge that you've had talking about your excitement and enthusiasm for the your excitement and enthusiasm for the your excitement and enthusiasm for the space as truly uh a lower cost tool no space as truly uh a lower cost tool no space as truly uh a lower cost tool no cost tool something that's accessible to cost tool something that's accessible to cost tool something that's accessible to pretty much anybody around the world and pretty much anybody around the world and pretty much anybody around the world and that you could experience the benefits that you could experience the benefits that you could experience the benefits of cold immersion especially not just of cold immersion especially not just of cold immersion especially not just right away but that there's Done Right right away but that there's Done Right right away but that there's Done Right within this protocol that we've outlined within this protocol that we've outlined within this protocol that we've outlined here inside of this interview and that here inside of this interview and that here inside of this interview and that you've outlined in your book that you've outlined in your book that you've outlined in your book that there's these all these long-term there's these all these long-term there's these all these long-term benefits as well so I just really benefits as well so I just really benefits as well so I just really acknowledge you and I thank you for not acknowledge you and I thank you for not acknowledge you and I thank you for not quitting on your PhD thank you and and quitting on your PhD thank you and and quitting on your PhD thank you and and sticking it out and I hope the world

2:32sticking it out and I hope the world sticking it out and I hope the world continues to reward you with all the continues to reward you with all the continues to reward you with all the attention that that your work deserves attention that that your work deserves attention that that your work deserves let's just share again with people if let's just share again with people if let's just share again with people if they want to do the course if they want they want to do the course if they want they want to do the course if they want to learn more about your work what to learn more about your work what to learn more about your work what websites should they go to well they websites should they go to well they websites should they go to well they should go to my Institute which is should go to my Institute which is should go to my Institute which is soberk institute.com and that is soberk institute.com and that is soberk institute.com and that is s-o-e-b-e-r-g s-o-e-b-e-r-g s-o-e-b-e-r-g institute.com and there you can find the institute.com and there you can find the institute.com and there you can find the three-way course and also I think we three-way course and also I think we three-way course and also I think we should give your audience and yeah this should give your audience and yeah this should give your audience and yeah this kind of a special link inside the show kind of a special link inside the show kind of a special link inside the show notes we can put inside of there yeah so notes we can put inside of there yeah so notes we can put inside of there yeah so we'll put it on YouTube for those of you we'll put it on YouTube for those of you we'll put it on YouTube for those of you that are watching oh fantastic and they that are watching oh fantastic and they that are watching oh fantastic and they can they can sign up for the course and can they can sign up for the course and can they can sign up for the course and do it there and then of course where do it there and then of course where do it there and then of course where books are sold they can pick up winter books are sold they can pick up winter books are sold they can pick up winter swimming here's uh the book right here swimming here's uh the book right here swimming here's uh the book right here I've marked it up a bunch inside I got I've marked it up a bunch inside I got I've marked it up a bunch inside I got to ask you to sign it afterwards winter to ask you to sign it afterwards winter to ask you to sign it afterwards winter swimming you can pick it up you said swimming you can pick it up you said swimming you can pick it up you said it's in 14 languages that are out there it's in 14 languages that are out there it's in 14 languages that are out there yeah 13 13 languages and then a new book yeah 13 13 languages and then a new book yeah 13 13 languages and then a new book hopefully coming out in the future but hopefully coming out in the future but hopefully coming out in the future but it's available in Danish and it's called it's available in Danish and it's called it's available in Danish and it's called the thermalist just briefly share with

2:33the thermalist just briefly share with the thermalist just briefly share with us what does that book build on top of us what does that book build on top of us what does that book build on top of that this book started that this book started that this book started so winter swimming is you can call in so winter swimming is you can call in so winter swimming is you can call in maybe an introduction to my research maybe an introduction to my research maybe an introduction to my research which is coming in the thermalist winter which is coming in the thermalist winter which is coming in the thermalist winter swimming is background literature the swimming is background literature the swimming is background literature the history uh what is brown fat it's it's history uh what is brown fat it's it's history uh what is brown fat it's it's it's everything we just talked about it's everything we just talked about it's everything we just talked about also sauna also sauna also sauna um so everything we just talked about is um so everything we just talked about is um so everything we just talked about is in Winter swimming uh the thermalist is in Winter swimming uh the thermalist is in Winter swimming uh the thermalist is a book where I I dig deeper in some a book where I I dig deeper in some a book where I I dig deeper in some areas around the cold and the Heat and areas around the cold and the Heat and areas around the cold and the Heat and very much about stress so the book is very much about stress so the book is very much about stress so the book is mostly about the healthy stress how can mostly about the healthy stress how can mostly about the healthy stress how can you use coat and heat and breathing so you use coat and heat and breathing so you use coat and heat and breathing so it's another component that I put in it's another component that I put in it's another component that I put in there because that is what I used in my there because that is what I used in my there because that is what I used in my research because the breathing is so research because the breathing is so research because the breathing is so important to lower stress also when I important to lower stress also when I important to lower stress also when I did my studies and I had to dig into did my studies and I had to dig into did my studies and I had to dig into that literature to make sure that I was that literature to make sure that I was that literature to make sure that I was doing that right so I also put that into doing that right so I also put that into doing that right so I also put that into my new book there that will also be my my new book there that will also be my my new book there that will also be my results and there's going to be results and there's going to be results and there's going to be interviews from different professors

2:34interviews from different professors interviews from different professors around the world also Andrew hooperman around the world also Andrew hooperman around the world also Andrew hooperman there's a bite of our interview you from there's a bite of our interview you from there's a bite of our interview you from an Instagram live that we did more than an Instagram live that we did more than an Instagram live that we did more than a year ago now a year ago now a year ago now um and there's case studies and um and there's case studies and um and there's case studies and interviews with with addicts and addict interviews with with addicts and addict interviews with with addicts and addict and and also other people it's I have and and also other people it's I have and and also other people it's I have been around the world with this book been around the world with this book been around the world with this book because it took me two and a half years because it took me two and a half years because it took me two and a half years to write and I started right after to write and I started right after to write and I started right after winter swimming so winter swimming is winter swimming so winter swimming is winter swimming so winter swimming is like the beginning of it of of all this like the beginning of it of of all this like the beginning of it of of all this research and I think that they research and I think that they research and I think that they complement each other but they are complement each other but they are complement each other but they are definitely different books so yeah I definitely different books so yeah I definitely different books so yeah I would encourage people to read both if would encourage people to read both if would encourage people to read both if if they are very interested well when if they are very interested well when if they are very interested well when it's available in English yeah it's it's available in English yeah it's it's available in English yeah it's going to take a while so why not just going to take a while so why not just going to take a while so why not just dig into winter swimming totally that's dig into winter swimming totally that's dig into winter swimming totally that's a great place to start thank you so much a great place to start thank you so much a great place to start thank you so much for coming on the podcast I appreciate for coming on the podcast I appreciate for coming on the podcast I appreciate you being here and again thank you for you being here and again thank you for you being here and again thank you for all your work thank you so much for all your work thank you so much for all your work thank you so much for having me hey YouTube If you enjoyed having me hey YouTube If you enjoyed having me hey YouTube If you enjoyed what you just saw keep watching for more what you just saw keep watching for more what you just saw keep watching for more great content on how to improve your

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