The Cold Truth: Unlocking the Benefits of Cold Exposure for Longevity and Resilience - Full Transcript

00:00What if doing something uncomfortable What if doing something uncomfortable like sitting in ice cold water could like sitting in ice cold water could like sitting in ice cold water could make your mind sharper, your body make your mind sharper, your body make your mind sharper, your body healthier, and increase libido? In this healthier, and increase libido? In this healthier, and increase libido? In this episode of the Nick Stanley Show, episode of the Nick Stanley Show, episode of the Nick Stanley Show, Professor Thomas Seager, co-founder of Professor Thomas Seager, co-founder of Professor Thomas Seager, co-founder of Morasco Forge, breaks down the science Morasco Forge, breaks down the science Morasco Forge, breaks down the science and philosophy of cold exposure. From and philosophy of cold exposure. From and philosophy of cold exposure. From improving mood to surprising links with improving mood to surprising links with improving mood to surprising links with improving meditation and mitigating improving meditation and mitigating improving meditation and mitigating anxiety, Seager shares both data and anxiety, Seager shares both data and anxiety, Seager shares both data and deeply personal deeply personal deeply personal stories. Whether you're cold curious or stories. Whether you're cold curious or stories. Whether you're cold curious or a season plunger, this episode offers a season plunger, this episode offers a season plunger, this episode offers fresh insight into how discomfort can be fresh insight into how discomfort can be fresh insight into how discomfort can be a gateway to resilience. Disclaimer: a gateway to resilience. Disclaimer: a gateway to resilience. Disclaimer: While many of the claims discussed are While many of the claims discussed are While many of the claims discussed are supported by emerging research, others supported by emerging research, others supported by emerging research, others remain anecdotal or underststudied. Cold remain anecdotal or underststudied. Cold remain anecdotal or underststudied. Cold exposure may offer real benefits, but it exposure may offer real benefits, but it exposure may offer real benefits, but it is not a substitute for medical is not a substitute for medical is not a substitute for medical treatment. Individuals with chronic treatment. Individuals with chronic treatment. Individuals with chronic health conditions should consult a health conditions should consult a health conditions should consult a health care professional before starting health care professional before starting health care professional before starting any extreme cold therapy. The views

01:00any extreme cold therapy. The views any extreme cold therapy. The views expressed are those of the guest and do expressed are those of the guest and do expressed are those of the guest and do not constitute medical advice. Okay. So, you just got out of your cold Okay. So, you just got out of your cold plunge. I did. I did. I mean, I'm a plunge. I did. I did. I mean, I'm a plunge. I did. I did. I mean, I'm a believer and if for no other reason than believer and if for no other reason than believer and if for no other reason than I just feel awesome for, I don't know, 4 I just feel awesome for, I don't know, 4 I just feel awesome for, I don't know, 4 to 8 hours afterwards. That sounds to 8 hours afterwards. That sounds to 8 hours afterwards. That sounds right. Me, too. You got a lot of energy. right. Me, too. You got a lot of energy. right. Me, too. You got a lot of energy. You feel better, like more optimistic in You feel better, like more optimistic in You feel better, like more optimistic in your outlook. I I feel like I have your outlook. I I feel like I have your outlook. I I feel like I have superpowers when I come out, you know? superpowers when I come out, you know? superpowers when I come out, you know? Yeah. And I Yeah. And I Yeah. And I still even this morning, I mean, I still even this morning, I mean, I still even this morning, I mean, I dreaded going in. It was cold outside. I dreaded going in. It was cold outside. I dreaded going in. It was cold outside. I didn't feel like doing it at all. Some didn't feel like doing it at all. Some didn't feel like doing it at all. Some days are better than others, but this days are better than others, but this days are better than others, but this was one where I was like, "Oh, I really was one where I was like, "Oh, I really was one where I was like, "Oh, I really don't want to do that." don't want to do that." don't want to do that." And I was just reading Atomic Habits, And I was just reading Atomic Habits, And I was just reading Atomic Habits, which is a great book. And I was

02:00which is a great book. And I was which is a great book. And I was reminded of one of the chapters in there reminded of one of the chapters in there reminded of one of the chapters in there where he talked about the cue for where he talked about the cue for where he talked about the cue for dopamine to be released is when your dopamine to be released is when your dopamine to be released is when your brain already knows that there's a brain already knows that there's a brain already knows that there's a reward on the other side of the action. reward on the other side of the action. reward on the other side of the action. It's not the action that causes the It's not the action that causes the It's not the action that causes the dopamine release. And just standing dopamine release. And just standing dopamine release. And just standing there outside of it and just thinking, there outside of it and just thinking, there outside of it and just thinking, you know what, it's going to be worth you know what, it's going to be worth you know what, it's going to be worth it. It's going to be two minutes of your it. It's going to be two minutes of your it. It's going to be two minutes of your life that's uncomfortable and then life that's uncomfortable and then life that's uncomfortable and then you're going to feel great. And sure you're going to feel great. And sure you're going to feel great. And sure enough, within uh I don't know 30 enough, within uh I don't know 30 enough, within uh I don't know 30 seconds there, I was like, "Yeah, this seconds there, I was like, "Yeah, this seconds there, I was like, "Yeah, this is this is going to be awesome. This is is this is going to be awesome. This is is this is going to be awesome. This is it's going to suck, but then it's going it's going to suck, but then it's going it's going to suck, but then it's going to be to be to be awesome." And you are um you got a lot awesome." And you are um you got a lot awesome." And you are um you got a lot of good company. You're telling the of good company. You're telling the of good company. You're telling the story that a lot of my readers tell me, story that a lot of my readers tell me, story that a lot of my readers tell me, but my morning was a little bit but my morning was a little bit but my morning was a little bit different. I was kind of different. I was kind of different. I was kind of procrastinating. procrastinating. procrastinating. There are those times, you know, it's There are those times, you know, it's There are those times, you know, it's winter, it's dark, the sun comes up late winter, it's dark, the sun comes up late winter, it's dark, the sun comes up late and there's times where I'm and there's times where I'm and there's times where I'm like, so I knew I had this podcast and like, so I knew I had this podcast and like, so I knew I had this podcast and I'm like, Tom, you got to get into that I'm like, Tom, you got to get into that I'm like, Tom, you got to get into that ice bath. And um it was the same kind of

03:00ice bath. And um it was the same kind of ice bath. And um it was the same kind of thing like the hesitancy. And I get in thing like the hesitancy. And I get in thing like the hesitancy. And I get in there and 15 seconds later, it's usually there and 15 seconds later, it's usually there and 15 seconds later, it's usually for me, what was I even worried about? for me, what was I even worried about? for me, what was I even worried about? You know, this is great. But this You know, this is great. But this You know, this is great. But this morning was different. this morning. It morning was different. this morning. It morning was different. this morning. It took about 30 seconds and I started took about 30 seconds and I started took about 30 seconds and I started shivering like you wouldn't believe, shivering like you wouldn't believe, shivering like you wouldn't believe, like violent trembling. Um, it's not like violent trembling. Um, it's not like violent trembling. Um, it's not that my brown fat isn't active. It's not that my brown fat isn't active. It's not that my brown fat isn't active. It's not that really that um I've gone so deep that really that um I've gone so deep that really that um I've gone so deep into cold thermogenesis after 30 seconds into cold thermogenesis after 30 seconds into cold thermogenesis after 30 seconds that I'm shivering to keep my body warm. that I'm shivering to keep my body warm. that I'm shivering to keep my body warm. This was all about stress release. This This was all about stress release. This This was all about stress release. This is all about the anxieties and the is all about the anxieties and the is all about the anxieties and the stress of running a business and all the stress of running a business and all the stress of running a business and all the things that can happen in there, like things that can happen in there, like things that can happen in there, like trembling them out into the water. So, trembling them out into the water. So, trembling them out into the water. So, even though I knew that uh I I might be even though I knew that uh I I might be even though I knew that uh I I might be a little late for Nick's uh podcast, I a little late for Nick's uh podcast, I a little late for Nick's uh podcast, I stayed in there an extra minute and I stayed in there an extra minute and I stayed in there an extra minute and I brought that shivering on. I'm like, brought that shivering on. I'm like, brought that shivering on. I'm like, just keep shivering it out, Tom. Because

04:00just keep shivering it out, Tom. Because just keep shivering it out, Tom. Because we hold our anxieties in our central we hold our anxieties in our central we hold our anxieties in our central nervous system and if they do not have nervous system and if they do not have nervous system and if they do not have the release which you know ordinarily in the release which you know ordinarily in the release which you know ordinarily in the wild we would be sprinting or the wild we would be sprinting or the wild we would be sprinting or fighting or you know do whatever we need fighting or you know do whatever we need fighting or you know do whatever we need to do physically that our body is to do physically that our body is to do physically that our body is prepared to do by that stress. I don't prepared to do by that stress. I don't prepared to do by that stress. I don't have that in downtown Phoenix. There's have that in downtown Phoenix. There's have that in downtown Phoenix. There's no will the beast for me to go slay. But no will the beast for me to go slay. But no will the beast for me to go slay. But the trembling is that physiological the trembling is that physiological the trembling is that physiological release of the stress in the nervous release of the stress in the nervous release of the stress in the nervous system that lets the anxieties go, that system that lets the anxieties go, that system that lets the anxieties go, that lets the stress resolve before it turns lets the stress resolve before it turns lets the stress resolve before it turns into a complex trauma. And that was one into a complex trauma. And that was one into a complex trauma. And that was one hell of an experience this morning for hell of an experience this morning for hell of an experience this morning for me, Nick. Well, good, good. I me, Nick. Well, good, good. I me, Nick. Well, good, good. I find meditation is most difficult. Even find meditation is most difficult. Even find meditation is most difficult. Even though I know there are myriad benefits though I know there are myriad benefits though I know there are myriad benefits to it, it is most difficult when I need to it, it is most difficult when I need to it, it is most difficult when I need it the most. When I'm feeling anxious

05:00it the most. When I'm feeling anxious it the most. When I'm feeling anxious and stressed and the cold plunge is a and stressed and the cold plunge is a and stressed and the cold plunge is a hack for that because I go in there, hack for that because I go in there, hack for that because I go in there, there is this release just like you there is this release just like you there is this release just like you described, right? This stress release described, right? This stress release described, right? This stress release because it's such a shock to the system. because it's such a shock to the system. because it's such a shock to the system. And then I get out and I go into the And then I get out and I go into the And then I get out and I go into the sauna and everything just quiets down. sauna and everything just quiets down. sauna and everything just quiets down. And it's so easy to just slip into a And it's so easy to just slip into a And it's so easy to just slip into a little meditation in the sauna after the little meditation in the sauna after the little meditation in the sauna after the cold and then everything is right in the cold and then everything is right in the cold and then everything is right in the world, you know? I mean, you're your world, you know? I mean, you're your world, you know? I mean, you're your legacy is secure. The kids are going to legacy is secure. The kids are going to legacy is secure. The kids are going to be fine. Everything's going to work out be fine. Everything's going to work out be fine. Everything's going to work out at work. Like you're filled with a at work. Like you're filled with a at work. Like you're filled with a gentle, quiet optimism. gentle, quiet optimism. gentle, quiet optimism. you have well for me anyway that feeling you have well for me anyway that feeling you have well for me anyway that feeling from oh my god I I can't believe this from oh my god I I can't believe this from oh my god I I can't believe this what's happening goes to I got this I'll what's happening goes to I got this I'll what's happening goes to I got this I'll figure this out. Yeah. Yeah. There's figure this out. Yeah. Yeah. There's figure this out. Yeah. Yeah. There's some good data on this. I did a we'll

06:00some good data on this. I did a we'll some good data on this. I did a we'll call it a mini study. I took two uh call it a mini study. I took two uh call it a mini study. I took two uh subjects. One of them experienced subjects. One of them experienced subjects. One of them experienced meditator. He's been doing this for meditator. He's been doing this for meditator. He's been doing this for years. He's Buddhist and I years. He's Buddhist and I years. He's Buddhist and I mean he studied with the Buddhist monks mean he studied with the Buddhist monks mean he studied with the Buddhist monks to learn this stuff and another totally to learn this stuff and another totally to learn this stuff and another totally naive naive to cold exposure, naive to naive naive to cold exposure, naive to naive naive to cold exposure, naive to uh meditation and I used the choose muse uh meditation and I used the choose muse uh meditation and I used the choose muse headset. So it go it's got like headset. So it go it's got like headset. So it go it's got like electrodes and it measures your brain electrodes and it measures your brain electrodes and it measures your brain waves. And I said, "Okay, you know, waves. And I said, "Okay, you know, waves. And I said, "Okay, you know, you're warm and dry. We're going to get you're warm and dry. We're going to get you're warm and dry. We're going to get a baseline. Do your meditation." Great. a baseline. Do your meditation." Great. a baseline. Do your meditation." Great. Said, "Now we're going to put you in the Said, "Now we're going to put you in the Said, "Now we're going to put you in the cold plunge." And it didn't matter cold plunge." And it didn't matter cold plunge." And it didn't matter whether they were experienced or naive. whether they were experienced or naive. whether they were experienced or naive. The cold plunge dipped their brain deep The cold plunge dipped their brain deep The cold plunge dipped their brain deep into a meditative state and kept them into a meditative state and kept them into a meditative state and kept them there for several minutes. Whereas when there for several minutes. Whereas when there for several minutes. Whereas when they were meditating warm and dry on they were meditating warm and dry on they were meditating warm and dry on their mat, you know, they sort of bounce their mat, you know, they sort of bounce their mat, you know, they sort of bounce in and out a little bit. But this is in and out a little bit. But this is in and out a little bit. But this is involuntary and it is unconscious. When involuntary and it is unconscious. When involuntary and it is unconscious. When you get up to your neck in cold water,

07:00you get up to your neck in cold water, you get up to your neck in cold water, your brain cannot help respond. It slows your brain cannot help respond. It slows your brain cannot help respond. It slows everything in the body down. There's uh everything in the body down. There's uh everything in the body down. There's uh this sort of ambiguous term called this sort of ambiguous term called this sort of ambiguous term called veagal tone. It refers to the strength veagal tone. It refers to the strength veagal tone. It refers to the strength of the parasympathetic division of the of the parasympathetic division of the of the parasympathetic division of the central nervous system. So, we're central nervous system. So, we're central nervous system. So, we're talking the rest and digest reflex. And talking the rest and digest reflex. And talking the rest and digest reflex. And we've observed people who have improved we've observed people who have improved we've observed people who have improved their veagal tone, at least as it's their veagal tone, at least as it's their veagal tone, at least as it's measured by their heart rate measured by their heart rate measured by their heart rate variability, by doing a regular practice variability, by doing a regular practice variability, by doing a regular practice of ice baths. When you first get in, it of ice baths. When you first get in, it of ice baths. When you first get in, it is true you have this sympathetic is true you have this sympathetic is true you have this sympathetic nervous system response. It is the nervous system response. It is the nervous system response. It is the fightor-flight response. But again, fightor-flight response. But again, fightor-flight response. But again, about 30 seconds later, that about 30 seconds later, that about 30 seconds later, that parasympathetic division takes over. parasympathetic division takes over. parasympathetic division takes over. That's called the dive reflex where your That's called the dive reflex where your That's called the dive reflex where your body is adjusting to this new body is adjusting to this new body is adjusting to this new environment. It's slowing down your rate environment. It's slowing down your rate environment. It's slowing down your rate of oxygen consumption. It's slowing down of oxygen consumption. It's slowing down of oxygen consumption. It's slowing down your heart rate and it's bringing your your heart rate and it's bringing your your heart rate and it's bringing your brain into that meditative state. So brain into that meditative state. So brain into that meditative state. So when you say the cold plunge is like a when you say the cold plunge is like a when you say the cold plunge is like a meditation hack, we've got the data that

08:00meditation hack, we've got the data that meditation hack, we've got the data that supports exactly what you're supports exactly what you're supports exactly what you're experiencing because I suck at experiencing because I suck at experiencing because I suck at meditation and I know there's going to meditation and I know there's going to meditation and I know there's going to be, you know, a dozen people on be, you know, a dozen people on be, you know, a dozen people on Instagram who are going to write to me Instagram who are going to write to me Instagram who are going to write to me and they're say, "Oh, Professor Seager, and they're say, "Oh, Professor Seager, and they're say, "Oh, Professor Seager, you know, you just need to do this." And you know, you just need to do this." And you know, you just need to do this." And they're all right. But I'm still where I they're all right. But I'm still where I they're all right. But I'm still where I am in my life, you know. So I The cold am in my life, you know. So I The cold am in my life, you know. So I The cold plunge is my plunge is my plunge is my meditation. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all meditation. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all meditation. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all about whatever works for the individual. about whatever works for the individual. about whatever works for the individual. I mean, correct. There are no right and I mean, correct. There are no right and I mean, correct. There are no right and wrong answers, I think, when it comes to wrong answers, I think, when it comes to wrong answers, I think, when it comes to meditation. It's really what is meditation. It's really what is meditation. It's really what is functional in your life. And if the cold functional in your life. And if the cold functional in your life. And if the cold is what gets you there, and for me that is what gets you there, and for me that is what gets you there, and for me that is, sounds like for you that is, then is, sounds like for you that is, then is, sounds like for you that is, then that works. There's no need to change that works. There's no need to change that works. There's no need to change anything. When we're talking about anything. When we're talking about anything. When we're talking about public health, we must be talking about public health, we must be talking about public health, we must be talking about metabolic health because every single metabolic health because every single metabolic health because every single leading cause of death in the United leading cause of death in the United leading cause of death in the United States from chronic illness has its States from chronic illness has its States from chronic illness has its origins in metabolic dysfunction. So,

09:00origins in metabolic dysfunction. So, origins in metabolic dysfunction. So, you can go down and you can list, you you can go down and you can list, you you can go down and you can list, you know, all the leading causes of illness. know, all the leading causes of illness. know, all the leading causes of illness. And it's sucks, but suicide is up there And it's sucks, but suicide is up there And it's sucks, but suicide is up there for men. Um, medical errors is another for men. Um, medical errors is another for men. Um, medical errors is another one that's up there. And the link to one that's up there. And the link to one that's up there. And the link to metabolic health there is somewhat metabolic health there is somewhat metabolic health there is somewhat tenuous. But all the rest, heart tenuous. But all the rest, heart tenuous. But all the rest, heart disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes, disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes, disease, cancer, type 2 diabetes, obesity, these all have their origins in obesity, these all have their origins in obesity, these all have their origins in metabolic dysfunction. And that metabolic dysfunction. And that metabolic dysfunction. And that dysfunction comes because you don't have dysfunction comes because you don't have dysfunction comes because you don't have the light right light environment. You the light right light environment. You the light right light environment. You don't have the right diet. Too many seed don't have the right diet. Too many seed don't have the right diet. Too many seed oils, too many carbohydrates. And you oils, too many carbohydrates. And you oils, too many carbohydrates. And you don't get cold. The cold regulates the don't get cold. The cold regulates the don't get cold. The cold regulates the metabolism by activating your brown fat metabolism by activating your brown fat metabolism by activating your brown fat or if you don't have any brown fat, or if you don't have any brown fat, or if you don't have any brown fat, recruiting new brown fat. Be aing the recruiting new brown fat. Be aing the recruiting new brown fat. Be aing the white fat. Well, tell me about the brown white fat. Well, tell me about the brown white fat. Well, tell me about the brown fat because I don't understand what it fat because I don't understand what it fat because I don't understand what it is, what that mechanism is, why it's is, what that mechanism is, why it's is, what that mechanism is, why it's good, why it's not good, why it's not good, why it's not bad. Break down the brown fat for me.

10:00bad. Break down the brown fat for me. bad. Break down the brown fat for me. I'm glad to have a chance to explain it. I'm glad to have a chance to explain it. I'm glad to have a chance to explain it. Um because over the course of my career Um because over the course of my career Um because over the course of my career as a scientist, there have been a number as a scientist, there have been a number as a scientist, there have been a number of things that in medicine, the medical of things that in medicine, the medical of things that in medicine, the medical doctors, oh, they all thought this was doctors, oh, they all thought this was doctors, oh, they all thought this was true. And then we find out that's not true. And then we find out that's not true. And then we find out that's not true. And brown fat is one of them. Up true. And brown fat is one of them. Up true. And brown fat is one of them. Up until about until about until about 2007, medical doctors thought there was 2007, medical doctors thought there was 2007, medical doctors thought there was no such thing as brown fat in adult no such thing as brown fat in adult no such thing as brown fat in adult human beings. Babies have it, children human beings. Babies have it, children human beings. Babies have it, children have it, rodents have it, but adult have it, rodents have it, but adult have it, rodents have it, but adult human beings, they sort of outgrow the human beings, they sort of outgrow the human beings, they sort of outgrow the brown fat. And then this Swedish team, brown fat. And then this Swedish team, brown fat. And then this Swedish team, they were treating cancer patients and they were treating cancer patients and they were treating cancer patients and they were using something called they were using something called they were using something called posetron emission tomography. So what posetron emission tomography. So what posetron emission tomography. So what happens is you inject the patient with a happens is you inject the patient with a happens is you inject the patient with a radioactive tracer of glucose. You allow radioactive tracer of glucose. You allow radioactive tracer of glucose. You allow that to go throughout their body and that to go throughout their body and that to go throughout their body and then you use the posetron emission then you use the posetron emission then you use the posetron emission tomography, the PET scan to find out tomography, the PET scan to find out tomography, the PET scan to find out where did the glucose go. Cancer cells where did the glucose go. Cancer cells where did the glucose go. Cancer cells will uptake glucose because their

11:00will uptake glucose because their will uptake glucose because their metabolism is fermentation, not metabolism is fermentation, not metabolism is fermentation, not mitochondrial ATP production. And so mitochondrial ATP production. And so mitochondrial ATP production. And so they are so hungry for the glucose that they are so hungry for the glucose that they are so hungry for the glucose that all the radioactive glucose winds up in all the radioactive glucose winds up in all the radioactive glucose winds up in the tumor. Great. You get a good image the tumor. Great. You get a good image the tumor. Great. You get a good image of the tumor. But what the Swedish team of the tumor. But what the Swedish team of the tumor. But what the Swedish team found was that there are these found was that there are these found was that there are these symmetrical deposits of fat. They didn't symmetrical deposits of fat. They didn't symmetrical deposits of fat. They didn't know that, but sewing up on their scan know that, but sewing up on their scan know that, but sewing up on their scan were these spots. And there cancer is were these spots. And there cancer is were these spots. And there cancer is not symmetrical. They're like, "It can't not symmetrical. They're like, "It can't not symmetrical. They're like, "It can't be cancer." And we're seeing this be cancer." And we're seeing this be cancer." And we're seeing this consistent pattern among a few people. consistent pattern among a few people. consistent pattern among a few people. Well, these PET machines, they use a lot Well, these PET machines, they use a lot Well, these PET machines, they use a lot of power, a lot of electricity, and you of power, a lot of electricity, and you of power, a lot of electricity, and you have to keep the instrument room cool have to keep the instrument room cool have to keep the instrument room cool enough so that the machine doesn't enough so that the machine doesn't enough so that the machine doesn't overheat. By the time you strip a pan overheat. By the time you strip a pan overheat. By the time you strip a pan cancer patient down to, you know, their cancer patient down to, you know, their cancer patient down to, you know, their pajamas or whatever, and you put them in pajamas or whatever, and you put them in pajamas or whatever, and you put them in this cool instrument room, a few people this cool instrument room, a few people this cool instrument room, a few people were activating their brown fat. And the were activating their brown fat. And the were activating their brown fat. And the Swedish team published this paper said, Swedish team published this paper said, Swedish team published this paper said, "We think we found brown fat in adult "We think we found brown fat in adult "We think we found brown fat in adult human beings. Someone at the Sloan

12:00human beings. Someone at the Sloan human beings. Someone at the Sloan Ketering Institute in New York, you Ketering Institute in New York, you Ketering Institute in New York, you know, they've got 10,000 of these PET know, they've got 10,000 of these PET know, they've got 10,000 of these PET scans." They're like, "That can't be. scans." They're like, "That can't be. scans." They're like, "That can't be. We're going to go back. We're going to We're going to go back. We're going to We're going to go back. We're going to find we're going to look at all of our find we're going to look at all of our find we're going to look at all of our scans, scans, scans, right?" 95% of the people that they right?" 95% of the people that they right?" 95% of the people that they scanned had no detectable brown fat. And scanned had no detectable brown fat. And scanned had no detectable brown fat. And 5% did. And you know why those 5% have 5% did. And you know why those 5% have 5% did. And you know why those 5% have brown fat? because they get cold. So the brown fat? because they get cold. So the brown fat? because they get cold. So the researchers started looking at people researchers started looking at people researchers started looking at people who run uh do outdoor jobs in these who run uh do outdoor jobs in these who run uh do outdoor jobs in these northern countries. So they' be Sweden northern countries. So they' be Sweden northern countries. So they' be Sweden and Finland. You know, do the and Finland. You know, do the and Finland. You know, do the lumberjacks have brown fat? Yes, they lumberjacks have brown fat? Yes, they lumberjacks have brown fat? Yes, they do. Do the garbage men have brown fat? do. Do the garbage men have brown fat? do. Do the garbage men have brown fat? Well, yes, they do. And it's because Well, yes, they do. And it's because Well, yes, they do. And it's because they get this periodic cold exposure they get this periodic cold exposure they get this periodic cold exposure that activates the thermogenesis that is that activates the thermogenesis that is that activates the thermogenesis that is um the thermmore regulatory systems um the thermmore regulatory systems um the thermmore regulatory systems inside your body include the production inside your body include the production inside your body include the production of heat when you're in a cold of heat when you're in a cold of heat when you're in a cold environment. There's two ways to do it. environment. There's two ways to do it. environment. There's two ways to do it. Muscle shivering and brown fat. Brown Muscle shivering and brown fat. Brown Muscle shivering and brown fat. Brown fat is different from white fat. Brown

13:00fat is different from white fat. Brown fat is different from white fat. Brown fat is packed with mitochondria and it's fat is packed with mitochondria and it's fat is packed with mitochondria and it's positioned in the body so that the heat positioned in the body so that the heat positioned in the body so that the heat it generates will keep the blood warm it generates will keep the blood warm it generates will keep the blood warm before it reaches the brain. So if you before it reaches the brain. So if you before it reaches the brain. So if you get cold on a regular basis, your body get cold on a regular basis, your body get cold on a regular basis, your body will put mitochondria into these will put mitochondria into these will put mitochondria into these specific fat cells so that it when it specific fat cells so that it when it specific fat cells so that it when it becomes active, all it does is burn up becomes active, all it does is burn up becomes active, all it does is burn up glucose and lipids or fat, white fat glucose and lipids or fat, white fat glucose and lipids or fat, white fat cells so that you know to keep your body cells so that you know to keep your body cells so that you know to keep your body warm in the cold. And some people would warm in the cold. And some people would warm in the cold. And some people would say, "Well, what do I need that for? say, "Well, what do I need that for? say, "Well, what do I need that for? I've got heated leather seats in my SUV. I've got heated leather seats in my SUV. I've got heated leather seats in my SUV. I don't need any brown fat." You can now I don't need any brown fat." You can now I don't need any brown fat." You can now get a doctorate just in brown fat. So, get a doctorate just in brown fat. So, get a doctorate just in brown fat. So, you think about this, you know, 2007. you think about this, you know, 2007. you think about this, you know, 2007. And medical doctors think there's no And medical doctors think there's no And medical doctors think there's no such thing. By, you know, 2019 or such thing. By, you know, 2019 or such thing. By, you know, 2019 or whatever it was, Susanna Soulberg is at whatever it was, Susanna Soulberg is at whatever it was, Susanna Soulberg is at the University of Copenhagen. She's the University of Copenhagen. She's the University of Copenhagen. She's doing PET scans on these Danish winter doing PET scans on these Danish winter doing PET scans on these Danish winter swimmers and she's getting an entire swimmers and she's getting an entire swimmers and she's getting an entire dissertation on just brown fat. And one dissertation on just brown fat. And one dissertation on just brown fat. And one of the most important things about it is

14:00of the most important things about it is of the most important things about it is it is not just for cold thermogenesis. it is not just for cold thermogenesis. it is not just for cold thermogenesis. It is an essential secrettory organ. It is an essential secrettory organ. It is an essential secrettory organ. That means it makes neuroprotective That means it makes neuroprotective That means it makes neuroprotective factors, neurotransmitters. It's in factors, neurotransmitters. It's in factors, neurotransmitters. It's in constant communication with the thyroid. constant communication with the thyroid. constant communication with the thyroid. If you do not have brown fat, your If you do not have brown fat, your If you do not have brown fat, your thyroid can become disregulated. Whether thyroid can become disregulated. Whether thyroid can become disregulated. Whether that's Hashimoto's or Graves disease, that's Hashimoto's or Graves disease, that's Hashimoto's or Graves disease, when you restore the brown fat, the when you restore the brown fat, the when you restore the brown fat, the brown fat now modulates the thyroid brown fat now modulates the thyroid brown fat now modulates the thyroid function. So brown fat is this essential function. So brown fat is this essential function. So brown fat is this essential control mechanism for your metabolism control mechanism for your metabolism control mechanism for your metabolism and the neuroprotective factors that it and the neuroprotective factors that it and the neuroprotective factors that it makes keep your brain intact. That is makes keep your brain intact. That is makes keep your brain intact. That is when you're undergoing environmental when you're undergoing environmental when you're undergoing environmental stress, your brain, which is the most stress, your brain, which is the most stress, your brain, which is the most important metabolic organ in your body, important metabolic organ in your body, important metabolic organ in your body, experiences that stress. So the experiences that stress. So the experiences that stress. So the increased levels of brown fat are increased levels of brown fat are increased levels of brown fat are associated with increased levels of associated with increased levels of associated with increased levels of brain derived neuroprotective factor or brain derived neuroprotective factor or brain derived neuroprotective factor or FGF-21 which is a different one fibro FGF-21 which is a different one fibro

15:00FGF-21 which is a different one fibro blast growth factor 21 that either blast growth factor 21 that either blast growth factor 21 that either repair brain damage prevent dementia repair brain damage prevent dementia repair brain damage prevent dementia prevent Alzheimer's or enhance your prevent Alzheimer's or enhance your prevent Alzheimer's or enhance your long-term cognitive function. Brown fat long-term cognitive function. Brown fat long-term cognitive function. Brown fat is an essential organ the same way that is an essential organ the same way that is an essential organ the same way that your liver or your kidney is. It's just your liver or your kidney is. It's just your liver or your kidney is. It's just that if you don't have any, it kills you that if you don't have any, it kills you that if you don't have any, it kills you slow. We don't recognize aging and slow. We don't recognize aging and slow. We don't recognize aging and chronic illness. We don't recognize type chronic illness. We don't recognize type chronic illness. We don't recognize type 2 diabetes as a brown fat deficiency. We 2 diabetes as a brown fat deficiency. We 2 diabetes as a brown fat deficiency. We think, well, you're just getting old. think, well, you're just getting old. think, well, you're just getting old. And people say, "Well, you're going to And people say, "Well, you're going to And people say, "Well, you're going to have this for the rest of your life. You have this for the rest of your life. You have this for the rest of your life. You got to be on metformin. You got to be got to be on metformin. You got to be got to be on metformin. You got to be taking insulin." Instead of the medical taking insulin." Instead of the medical taking insulin." Instead of the medical doctors telling their type 2 diabetic doctors telling their type 2 diabetic doctors telling their type 2 diabetic patients, two weeks, you can turn that patients, two weeks, you can turn that patients, two weeks, you can turn that around. You're going to go ketogenic around. You're going to go ketogenic around. You're going to go ketogenic diet. you're going to do some cold diet. you're going to do some cold diet. you're going to do some cold plunge therapy. We're going to get uh plunge therapy. We're going to get uh plunge therapy. We're going to get uh brown fat back in your body. That's brown fat back in your body. That's brown fat back in your body. That's going to regulate your thyroid, improve going to regulate your thyroid, improve going to regulate your thyroid, improve your insulin sensitivity, and you're your insulin sensitivity, and you're your insulin sensitivity, and you're going to be metabolically okay. Instead going to be metabolically okay. Instead going to be metabolically okay. Instead of telling them that, they say, "Here's of telling them that, they say, "Here's of telling them that, they say, "Here's a prescription. Metformin is a mega

16:00a prescription. Metformin is a mega a prescription. Metformin is a mega drug, billions of dollars. Here's drug, billions of dollars. Here's drug, billions of dollars. Here's insulin." And the insulin prices have insulin." And the insulin prices have insulin." And the insulin prices have gone up like crazy because I don't know gone up like crazy because I don't know gone up like crazy because I don't know exactly why, but it is one of the most exactly why, but it is one of the most exactly why, but it is one of the most prescribed drugs cuz something like 80% prescribed drugs cuz something like 80% prescribed drugs cuz something like 80% of America is at some degree insulin of America is at some degree insulin of America is at some degree insulin resistant. And these things are going to resistant. And these things are going to resistant. And these things are going to keep you as a profitable patient. Now keep you as a profitable patient. Now keep you as a profitable patient. Now you could say, well, Morasco is pretty you could say, well, Morasco is pretty you could say, well, Morasco is pretty expensive. And it is, but you give me expensive. And it is, but you give me expensive. And it is, but you give me two weeks and I will improve your two weeks and I will improve your two weeks and I will improve your insulin sensitivity. I won't do it. Your insulin sensitivity. I won't do it. Your insulin sensitivity. I won't do it. Your body will do it. My machine will improve body will do it. My machine will improve body will do it. My machine will improve your insulin sensitivity because you get your insulin sensitivity because you get your insulin sensitivity because you get into it every day. Activate the brown into it every day. Activate the brown into it every day. Activate the brown fat. Take some of that glucose out of fat. Take some of that glucose out of fat. Take some of that glucose out of your bloodstream. Take some of that your bloodstream. Take some of that your bloodstream. Take some of that white fat, especially the subcutaneous white fat, especially the subcutaneous white fat, especially the subcutaneous and the visceral fat. Take that out of and the visceral fat. Take that out of and the visceral fat. Take that out of your body. Burn that up and restore your body. Burn that up and restore your body. Burn that up and restore yourself to metabolic health. yourself to metabolic health. yourself to metabolic health. I hope you call a hormetic response. I'm I hope you call a hormetic response. I'm I hope you call a hormetic response. I'm uh obsessed with this idea of hormesis. uh obsessed with this idea of hormesis. uh obsessed with this idea of hormesis. I'm so glad you used that term. Yeah.

17:00I'm so glad you used that term. Yeah. I'm so glad you used that term. Yeah. Well, it I feel like it applies to so Well, it I feel like it applies to so Well, it I feel like it applies to so much more. I mean, it's a scientific much more. I mean, it's a scientific much more. I mean, it's a scientific term, but this idea that term, but this idea that term, but this idea that small small small stressors, the body will respond to it stressors, the body will respond to it stressors, the body will respond to it in positive in positive in positive ways. Clearly, there's a connection with ways. Clearly, there's a connection with ways. Clearly, there's a connection with the ice bath there and what you're the ice bath there and what you're the ice bath there and what you're talking about, how the body responds to talking about, how the body responds to talking about, how the body responds to these stresses and it has positive these stresses and it has positive these stresses and it has positive benefits in the long run. But I think benefits in the long run. But I think benefits in the long run. But I think it's such a great metaphor for whatever it's such a great metaphor for whatever it's such a great metaphor for whatever you're trying to accomplish for life in you're trying to accomplish for life in you're trying to accomplish for life in that when we take on uncomfortable that when we take on uncomfortable that when we take on uncomfortable things, our our mind and our body things, our our mind and our body things, our our mind and our body respond to that stress and become respond to that stress and become respond to that stress and become stronger as a result. And to have all of stronger as a result. And to have all of stronger as a result. And to have all of that, that big concept wrapped up in one that, that big concept wrapped up in one that, that big concept wrapped up in one word, uh, is very exciting to me cuz I I word, uh, is very exciting to me cuz I I word, uh, is very exciting to me cuz I I love I love love I love love I love language. Exercise is a hormetic language. Exercise is a hormetic language. Exercise is a hormetic stressor. Yeah. I mean, maybe it feels

18:00stressor. Yeah. I mean, maybe it feels stressor. Yeah. I mean, maybe it feels good for a little while and then you good for a little while and then you good for a little while and then you don't just get tired. Boy, I did that V2 don't just get tired. Boy, I did that V2 don't just get tired. Boy, I did that V2 max test on the treadmill. I thought I max test on the treadmill. I thought I max test on the treadmill. I thought I was going to throw up, you know, into my was going to throw up, you know, into my was going to throw up, you know, into my mask and then was flat out on the floor mask and then was flat out on the floor mask and then was flat out on the floor for like 25 or 30 minutes. Now, somebody for like 25 or 30 minutes. Now, somebody for like 25 or 30 minutes. Now, somebody looking at me might say, "Hey, that looking at me might say, "Hey, that looking at me might say, "Hey, that treadmill is not healthy." But we have a treadmill is not healthy." But we have a treadmill is not healthy." But we have a better understanding. We know that after better understanding. We know that after better understanding. We know that after we exercise, we might be in pain or we we exercise, we might be in pain or we we exercise, we might be in pain or we might be sore. We might be exhausted, might be sore. We might be exhausted, might be sore. We might be exhausted, but the next couple of days, our body but the next couple of days, our body but the next couple of days, our body will come back stronger because we are will come back stronger because we are will come back stronger because we are adaptive. That's a great example of adaptive. That's a great example of adaptive. That's a great example of hormetic stress. Cold is the exact same hormetic stress. Cold is the exact same hormetic stress. Cold is the exact same way. If having a glass of champagne and way. If having a glass of champagne and way. If having a glass of champagne and a spa day, you know, was good for you, a spa day, you know, was good for you, a spa day, you know, was good for you, then I would be prescribing that as a then I would be prescribing that as a then I would be prescribing that as a doctor of philosophy. And we know it's doctor of philosophy. And we know it's doctor of philosophy. And we know it's not good for you. It's relaxing and it's not good for you. It's relaxing and it's not good for you. It's relaxing and it's comforting and that's wonderful. If you comforting and that's wonderful. If you comforting and that's wonderful. If you pair the relaxation and recovery with pair the relaxation and recovery with pair the relaxation and recovery with the stress, this is what's healthy for

19:00the stress, this is what's healthy for the stress, this is what's healthy for you. We need sleep is a good example, you. We need sleep is a good example, you. We need sleep is a good example, but we don't need to be sitting around but we don't need to be sitting around but we don't need to be sitting around on, you know, all day napping. We need on, you know, all day napping. We need on, you know, all day napping. We need light, but we don't need light in the light, but we don't need light in the light, but we don't need light in the middle of the night. So, we need cold middle of the night. So, we need cold middle of the night. So, we need cold and heat, light and dark, exercise and and heat, light and dark, exercise and and heat, light and dark, exercise and rest. We need feast and fasting. It is rest. We need feast and fasting. It is rest. We need feast and fasting. It is this kind of variability that our bodies this kind of variability that our bodies this kind of variability that our bodies are expecting from from this experience are expecting from from this experience are expecting from from this experience we call life. The unfortunate thing we call life. The unfortunate thing we call life. The unfortunate thing because of my profession the civil because of my profession the civil because of my profession the civil engineers, you know, we live in climate engineers, you know, we live in climate engineers, you know, we live in climate controlled environments. What do you controlled environments. What do you controlled environments. What do you want your light environment to be? This. want your light environment to be? This. want your light environment to be? This. What do you want your temperature What do you want your temperature What do you want your temperature environment to be? That and we can keep environment to be? That and we can keep environment to be? That and we can keep all of this at a constant straight line all of this at a constant straight line all of this at a constant straight line with our machines. And that makes us with our machines. And that makes us with our machines. And that makes us sick. the, you know, if I think about my sick. the, you know, if I think about my sick. the, you know, if I think about my grandfather, he would probably have grandfather, he would probably have grandfather, he would probably have scoffed at the idea of deliberately

20:00scoffed at the idea of deliberately scoffed at the idea of deliberately going into an ice bath. My grandfather, going into an ice bath. My grandfather, going into an ice bath. My grandfather, you know, was born in Maine at the you know, was born in Maine at the you know, was born in Maine at the beginning of the 20th century. He had beginning of the 20th century. He had beginning of the 20th century. He had plenty of cold in his life, and he might plenty of cold in his life, and he might plenty of cold in his life, and he might even make fun of me. But all of the even make fun of me. But all of the even make fun of me. But all of the things that were invented during his things that were invented during his things that were invented during his lifetime to provide him the comfort that lifetime to provide him the comfort that lifetime to provide him the comfort that was rare are now making me sick because was rare are now making me sick because was rare are now making me sick because our lives are too comfortable. I have to our lives are too comfortable. I have to our lives are too comfortable. I have to go seek out and I call it a workout or I go seek out and I call it a workout or I go seek out and I call it a workout or I call it therapy what my grandfather, you call it therapy what my grandfather, you call it therapy what my grandfather, you know, was doing and he called it work. know, was doing and he called it work. know, was doing and he called it work. Yeah. Yeah. I really liked the story Yeah. Yeah. I really liked the story Yeah. Yeah. I really liked the story along these lines because you made your along these lines because you made your along these lines because you made your company made the ice bath that Joe Rogan company made the ice bath that Joe Rogan company made the ice bath that Joe Rogan uses. Is that correct? Yeah, we can talk uses. Is that correct? Yeah, we can talk uses. Is that correct? Yeah, we can talk about that. Yeah. When he had a line on about that. Yeah. When he had a line on about that. Yeah. When he had a line on his show when he said, "I really like his show when he said, "I really like his show when he said, "I really like this ice bath because it goes down so this ice bath because it goes down so this ice bath because it goes down so low in temperature." And I think it was low in temperature." And I think it was low in temperature." And I think it was a guest who said, "Why would you want it a guest who said, "Why would you want it a guest who said, "Why would you want it to go down to 34 or 33 degrees?" Because

21:00to go down to 34 or 33 degrees?" Because to go down to 34 or 33 degrees?" Because it increases the suck. And I thought it increases the suck. And I thought it increases the suck. And I thought that was such a lovely that was such a lovely that was such a lovely response. But that is what you're going response. But that is what you're going response. But that is what you're going for with something like this. And and for with something like this. And and for with something like this. And and obviously I I want to be clear, if obviously I I want to be clear, if obviously I I want to be clear, if you've never done an ice bath, don't you've never done an ice bath, don't you've never done an ice bath, don't start that low. Uh you want to start that low. Uh you want to start that low. Uh you want to absolutely work up to it. It's like absolutely work up to it. It's like absolutely work up to it. It's like lifting weights. You don't want to start lifting weights. You don't want to start lifting weights. You don't want to start with 315 on the on the bench press. Uh with 315 on the on the bench press. Uh with 315 on the on the bench press. Uh let's let's start with 135 and we'll let's let's start with 135 and we'll let's let's start with 135 and we'll work up to 315. So right, work up to 315. So right, work up to 315. So right, that guest was Gary Brea and um I don't that guest was Gary Brea and um I don't that guest was Gary Brea and um I don't know Gary personally. He's got his know Gary personally. He's got his know Gary personally. He's got his ultimate human brand, but I know Dana ultimate human brand, but I know Dana ultimate human brand, but I know Dana White credits Gary Brea with helping White credits Gary Brea with helping White credits Gary Brea with helping Dana recover from serious illness. And Dana recover from serious illness. And Dana recover from serious illness. And that's a lot of times people will ask me that's a lot of times people will ask me that's a lot of times people will ask me about Gary and I'll say I think there's about Gary and I'll say I think there's about Gary and I'll say I think there's some really interesting things. Gary is some really interesting things. Gary is some really interesting things. Gary is probably 80% right. the problem is probably 80% right. the problem is probably 80% right. the problem is figuring out what the other 20% is figuring out what the other 20% is figuring out what the other 20% is sometimes. So Gary has some clever ideas

22:00sometimes. So Gary has some clever ideas sometimes. So Gary has some clever ideas and he goes on the Rogan show and he and he goes on the Rogan show and he and he goes on the Rogan show and he says, "I haven't seen any evidence that says, "I haven't seen any evidence that says, "I haven't seen any evidence that there's, you know, any benefit to going there's, you know, any benefit to going there's, you know, any benefit to going colder." Gary has his own brand. It's a colder." Gary has his own brand. It's a colder." Gary has his own brand. It's a cold plunge brand. It doesn't get as cold plunge brand. It doesn't get as cold plunge brand. It doesn't get as cold as Morasco. Morasco makes ice. And cold as Morasco. Morasco makes ice. And cold as Morasco. Morasco makes ice. And all the other brands that use chillers all the other brands that use chillers all the other brands that use chillers made in China, they go down to maybe 37 made in China, they go down to maybe 37 made in China, they go down to maybe 37 38 degrees. and there's thermodynamic 38 degrees. and there's thermodynamic 38 degrees. and there's thermodynamic reasons for it. So he sort of challenges reasons for it. So he sort of challenges reasons for it. So he sort of challenges Joe with this I haven't seen any Joe with this I haven't seen any Joe with this I haven't seen any evidence and Joe says I do it because it evidence and Joe says I do it because it evidence and Joe says I do it because it sucks worse. And I'm like what a great sucks worse. And I'm like what a great sucks worse. And I'm like what a great marketing line that would be. Gary says marketing line that would be. Gary says marketing line that would be. Gary says yeah there's a lot of evidence that it yeah there's a lot of evidence that it yeah there's a lot of evidence that it sucks worse. And he's right. Part of the sucks worse. And he's right. Part of the sucks worse. And he's right. Part of the reason to go that cold is because it reason to go that cold is because it reason to go that cold is because it sucks worse. If I get into something sucks worse. If I get into something sucks worse. If I get into something that's 39, for me now it's boring that's 39, for me now it's boring that's 39, for me now it's boring because my body is so because my body is so because my body is so coldrained. So I'm in Scotland. I'm at

23:00coldrained. So I'm in Scotland. I'm at coldrained. So I'm in Scotland. I'm at the St. Andrews, you know, club. There's the St. Andrews, you know, club. There's the St. Andrews, you know, club. There's the Global Wellness Institute conference the Global Wellness Institute conference the Global Wellness Institute conference or something like that. A friend told me or something like that. A friend told me or something like that. A friend told me I should go. So I show up and I got to I should go. So I show up and I got to I should go. So I show up and I got to take a cab back to Edin Burough or take a cab back to Edin Burough or take a cab back to Edin Burough or however they pronounce it so I can fly however they pronounce it so I can fly however they pronounce it so I can fly home. And the cabbie finds out who I am home. And the cabbie finds out who I am home. And the cabbie finds out who I am and starts asking me about ice baths. and starts asking me about ice baths. and starts asking me about ice baths. And I'm like, Nick, this is probably the And I'm like, Nick, this is probably the And I'm like, Nick, this is probably the indication that this is going like a indication that this is going like a indication that this is going like a little out of control when cab drivers little out of control when cab drivers little out of control when cab drivers in Scotland are saying, "Aren't you that in Scotland are saying, "Aren't you that in Scotland are saying, "Aren't you that guy on Instagram? I should ask you about guy on Instagram? I should ask you about guy on Instagram? I should ask you about ice baths. You know, what's the optimal ice baths. You know, what's the optimal ice baths. You know, what's the optimal time and temperature?" He asks. And I time and temperature?" He asks. And I time and temperature?" He asks. And I go, "Depends upon how well cold trained go, "Depends upon how well cold trained go, "Depends upon how well cold trained you are." You know, if it's just like you are." You know, if it's just like you are." You know, if it's just like what you said. If you go into the gym what you said. If you go into the gym what you said. If you go into the gym and you've never done a deadlift, what's and you've never done a deadlift, what's and you've never done a deadlift, what's the optimal weight or number of reps for the optimal weight or number of reps for the optimal weight or number of reps for you? Well, it's going to be different you? Well, it's going to be different you? Well, it's going to be different than, you know, the strongest man in the than, you know, the strongest man in the than, you know, the strongest man in the world who I met at this conference. If world who I met at this conference. If world who I met at this conference. If you're highly coldrained, then you're

24:00you're highly coldrained, then you're you're highly coldrained, then you're ready for more challenge. And that's ready for more challenge. And that's ready for more challenge. And that's where I am. Joe didn't start there. where I am. Joe didn't start there. where I am. Joe didn't start there. First time Joe got into a Morasco was First time Joe got into a Morasco was First time Joe got into a Morasco was exactly what you just said not to do. exactly what you just said not to do. exactly what you just said not to do. There was ice floating across the top. There was ice floating across the top. There was ice floating across the top. It was like 34 degrees. He spent like a It was like 34 degrees. He spent like a It was like 34 degrees. He spent like a minute and a half. He put it out on minute and a half. He put it out on minute and a half. He put it out on Instagram. He got, you know, millions of Instagram. He got, you know, millions of Instagram. He got, you know, millions of views. And then Jaco Wilnick called him views. And then Jaco Wilnick called him views. And then Jaco Wilnick called him up and said, "What are you, some kind of up and said, "What are you, some kind of up and said, "What are you, some kind of a wimp?" You know, my son, he gets in a wimp?" You know, my son, he gets in a wimp?" You know, my son, he gets in there for 20 minutes or something and there for 20 minutes or something and there for 20 minutes or something and kind of shamed Joe into doing another kind of shamed Joe into doing another kind of shamed Joe into doing another post. The next day, Joe gets in there. post. The next day, Joe gets in there. post. The next day, Joe gets in there. 20 straight minutes of him shivering. 20 straight minutes of him shivering. 20 straight minutes of him shivering. And this became a meme. You know, there And this became a meme. You know, there And this became a meme. You know, there were people who made Joe Rogan ice bath were people who made Joe Rogan ice bath were people who made Joe Rogan ice bath action figure dolls that you could buy action figure dolls that you could buy action figure dolls that you could buy online. That's how crazy the whole thing online. That's how crazy the whole thing online. That's how crazy the whole thing was. And Joe was doing it wrong. He was. And Joe was doing it wrong. He was. And Joe was doing it wrong. He would have been better off, hey, let's would have been better off, hey, let's would have been better off, hey, let's start at 45. Let's go down a degree a start at 45. Let's go down a degree a start at 45. Let's go down a degree a day. But he's such a sensational and day. But he's such a sensational and day. But he's such a sensational and entertaining guy. I mean, doing it wrong

25:00entertaining guy. I mean, doing it wrong entertaining guy. I mean, doing it wrong in in a way is good for the clicks and in in a way is good for the clicks and in in a way is good for the clicks and the the the attention. Since then he's had a lot of attention. Since then he's had a lot of attention. Since then he's had a lot of people on his show. Yeah. You know Brea people on his show. Yeah. You know Brea people on his show. Yeah. You know Brea is one, Huberman is another who are is one, Huberman is another who are is one, Huberman is another who are talking about the real benefits that talking about the real benefits that talking about the real benefits that they they they experience and the what temperature is a experience and the what temperature is a experience and the what temperature is a big deal. Last time Huberman was on the big deal. Last time Huberman was on the big deal. Last time Huberman was on the Rogan show, Huberman admitted that um Rogan show, Huberman admitted that um Rogan show, Huberman admitted that um kind of like Joo was giving Joe Rogan kind of like Joo was giving Joe Rogan kind of like Joo was giving Joe Rogan crap about how long, Joe was giving crap about how long, Joe was giving crap about how long, Joe was giving Hubberman crap about how warm. And so Hubberman crap about how warm. And so Hubberman crap about how warm. And so Hubberman said, you know, out of respect Hubberman said, you know, out of respect Hubberman said, you know, out of respect for you, I've gone down to 44° or for you, I've gone down to 44° or for you, I've gone down to 44° or something like that. Well, Andrew, if something like that. Well, Andrew, if something like that. Well, Andrew, if that works for you, keep doing that. If that works for you, keep doing that. If that works for you, keep doing that. If if what 34 and the ice in there works if what 34 and the ice in there works if what 34 and the ice in there works for me and for Joe, we're going to keep for me and for Joe, we're going to keep for me and for Joe, we're going to keep doing again N equals 1. What is the doing again N equals 1. What is the doing again N equals 1. What is the challenge that I want in my life? And challenge that I want in my life? And challenge that I want in my life? And what what am I trying to accomplish when what what am I trying to accomplish when what what am I trying to accomplish when I get in there? It's not the metabolic

26:00I get in there? It's not the metabolic I get in there? It's not the metabolic health. It's not the testosterone boost health. It's not the testosterone boost health. It's not the testosterone boost for me. It's that mental challenge of for me. It's that mental challenge of for me. It's that mental challenge of doing something really difficult and doing something really difficult and doing something really difficult and making the rest of my day seem like it's making the rest of my day seem like it's making the rest of my day seem like it's easy. So, if somebody's just starting easy. So, if somebody's just starting easy. So, if somebody's just starting out, let's say they've never done it, out, let's say they've never done it, out, let's say they've never done it, they don't want to do it, but they're they don't want to do it, but they're they don't want to do it, but they're curious about trying it. Would 50 be a curious about trying it. Would 50 be a curious about trying it. Would 50 be a good place to start and then work down good place to start and then work down good place to start and then work down from there? Here's a rule of thumb. 50 from there? Here's a rule of thumb. 50 from there? Here's a rule of thumb. 50 is a fine place to start. There's even is a fine place to start. There's even is a fine place to start. There's even some good clinical trials on people some good clinical trials on people some good clinical trials on people metabolic benefits, uh, people in the metabolic benefits, uh, people in the metabolic benefits, uh, people in the 50s, high 40s. Um, you know, they 50s, high 40s. Um, you know, they 50s, high 40s. Um, you know, they measure it in Celsius over in Europe. measure it in Celsius over in Europe. measure it in Celsius over in Europe. So, if I say 14 degrees C, it might not So, if I say 14 degrees C, it might not So, if I say 14 degrees C, it might not mean a dang thing to most of your mean a dang thing to most of your mean a dang thing to most of your listeners, but 50 is a great place to listeners, but 50 is a great place to listeners, but 50 is a great place to start for metabolic benefits, but here's start for metabolic benefits, but here's start for metabolic benefits, but here's the rule of thumb. If you're just the rule of thumb. If you're just the rule of thumb. If you're just starting, go cold enough to gasp and starting, go cold enough to gasp and starting, go cold enough to gasp and long enough to shiver. When you first long enough to shiver. When you first long enough to shiver. When you first get into the water, you're probably get into the water, you're probably get into the water, you're probably going to feel that urge to catch your going to feel that urge to catch your going to feel that urge to catch your breath. Your body knows what's going on. breath. Your body knows what's going on. breath. Your body knows what's going on. Your body is like, "Get out of here."

27:00Your body is like, "Get out of here." Your body is like, "Get out of here." you know, we're going to die and so it's you know, we're going to die and so it's you know, we're going to die and so it's like inhale just in case, you know, like inhale just in case, you know, like inhale just in case, you know, you're going to wind up submerged or you're going to wind up submerged or you're going to wind up submerged or something. If you feel that gasp reflex, something. If you feel that gasp reflex, something. If you feel that gasp reflex, you have activated your sympathetic you have activated your sympathetic you have activated your sympathetic nervous system. You are starting the nervous system. You are starting the nervous system. You are starting the process of cold process of cold process of cold thermogenesis. You go in there long thermogenesis. You go in there long thermogenesis. You go in there long enough to shiver. If you've done that enough to shiver. If you've done that enough to shiver. If you've done that and it might be two or three minutes and it might be two or three minutes and it might be two or three minutes like everybody is a little bit different like everybody is a little bit different like everybody is a little bit different then you know you're getting vasoc then you know you're getting vasoc then you know you're getting vasoc constriction in your limbs which I'll constriction in your limbs which I'll constriction in your limbs which I'll explain in a second. You know that your explain in a second. You know that your explain in a second. You know that your muscles are shivering for thermogenesis muscles are shivering for thermogenesis muscles are shivering for thermogenesis because whatever little amount of brown because whatever little amount of brown because whatever little amount of brown fat you have left isn't sufficient to do fat you have left isn't sufficient to do fat you have left isn't sufficient to do the job. You know that you are signaling the job. You know that you are signaling the job. You know that you are signaling your body to recruit new brown fat to your body to recruit new brown fat to your body to recruit new brown fat to rejuvenate your mitochondria. That is to rejuvenate your mitochondria. That is to rejuvenate your mitochondria. That is to take out the bad mitochondria. This is a take out the bad mitochondria. This is a take out the bad mitochondria. This is a process called mofasagi where it process called mofasagi where it process called mofasagi where it identifies the damaged mitochondria and identifies the damaged mitochondria and identifies the damaged mitochondria and says we're going to eliminate those. says we're going to eliminate those. says we're going to eliminate those. We're going to recycle some of those We're going to recycle some of those We're going to recycle some of those components and we're going to identify components and we're going to identify components and we're going to identify the best mitochondria. We're going to

28:00the best mitochondria. We're going to the best mitochondria. We're going to replicate them. They have their own DNA replicate them. They have their own DNA replicate them. They have their own DNA and so they replicate as these sort of and so they replicate as these sort of and so they replicate as these sort of uh as if they were single cell uh as if they were single cell uh as if they were single cell organisms, right? They split into two organisms, right? They split into two organisms, right? They split into two mitochondria from one and this is mitochondria from one and this is mitochondria from one and this is happening all the time. So that's called happening all the time. So that's called happening all the time. So that's called mitobiogenesis. mitobiogenesis. mitobiogenesis. If you're shivering, you know your body If you're shivering, you know your body If you're shivering, you know your body has signaled mitoagi and mitobiogenesis has signaled mitoagi and mitobiogenesis has signaled mitoagi and mitobiogenesis to rejuvenate your mitochondria, recruit to rejuvenate your mitochondria, recruit to rejuvenate your mitochondria, recruit new brown fat, you can get out and then new brown fat, you can get out and then new brown fat, you can get out and then get a little exercise, you know, to do get a little exercise, you know, to do get a little exercise, you know, to do the rewarming because all of your the rewarming because all of your the rewarming because all of your thermal regulatory responses have been thermal regulatory responses have been thermal regulatory responses have been active and they're exercising. I said I active and they're exercising. I said I active and they're exercising. I said I would get back to the vaso constriction. would get back to the vaso constriction. would get back to the vaso constriction. One of those thermo regulatory responses One of those thermo regulatory responses One of those thermo regulatory responses is to shut down circulation to the is to shut down circulation to the is to shut down circulation to the limbs. you know, you have a lot of limbs. you know, you have a lot of limbs. you know, you have a lot of surface area in the fingers and the toes surface area in the fingers and the toes surface area in the fingers and the toes and the extremity, and it's to keep the and the extremity, and it's to keep the and the extremity, and it's to keep the blood in the core so all of the vital blood in the core so all of the vital blood in the core so all of the vital organs stay warm. To do that, you have organs stay warm. To do that, you have organs stay warm. To do that, you have to constrict the blood vessels to to to constrict the blood vessels to to to constrict the blood vessels to to make sure the blood stays in the core. make sure the blood stays in the core. make sure the blood stays in the core. Your blood pressure can go up. So, Your blood pressure can go up. So, Your blood pressure can go up. So, chronic hypertension is one of the

29:00chronic hypertension is one of the chronic hypertension is one of the contraindications, one of the things to contraindications, one of the things to contraindications, one of the things to that would cause you to avoid cold that would cause you to avoid cold that would cause you to avoid cold plunge therapy. But with that exception, plunge therapy. But with that exception, plunge therapy. But with that exception, if you don't suffer from chronic if you don't suffer from chronic if you don't suffer from chronic hypertension, then this vasoc hypertension, then this vasoc hypertension, then this vasoc constriction is a workout for the smooth constriction is a workout for the smooth constriction is a workout for the smooth muscle tissues that control your blood muscle tissues that control your blood muscle tissues that control your blood flow. When you do this for long enough, flow. When you do this for long enough, flow. When you do this for long enough, you will improve your circulation mostly you will improve your circulation mostly you will improve your circulation mostly through improved action, improved flow through improved action, improved flow through improved action, improved flow of the blood through your blood vessels. of the blood through your blood vessels. of the blood through your blood vessels. But you can even remodel the micro blood But you can even remodel the micro blood But you can even remodel the micro blood vessels in your toes and in your vessels in your toes and in your vessels in your toes and in your fingers. You can change the flow of fingers. You can change the flow of fingers. You can change the flow of blood through your body and especially blood through your body and especially blood through your body and especially your extremities because your body is your extremities because your body is your extremities because your body is responding to the cold. This is a responding to the cold. This is a responding to the cold. This is a wonderful thing because especially when wonderful thing because especially when wonderful thing because especially when you combine it with sona, the health you combine it with sona, the health you combine it with sona, the health benefits of the thermal contrast therapy benefits of the thermal contrast therapy benefits of the thermal contrast therapy that they're talking about in Finland, that they're talking about in Finland, that they're talking about in Finland, which is, you know, reduction of all which is, you know, reduction of all which is, you know, reduction of all cost all cause mortality. They're coming cost all cause mortality. They're coming cost all cause mortality. They're coming from improved blood flow, improved

30:00from improved blood flow, improved from improved blood flow, improved circulation, and the reduced risk of circulation, and the reduced risk of circulation, and the reduced risk of heart disease and stroke and all of the heart disease and stroke and all of the heart disease and stroke and all of the other things that can be fatal that are other things that can be fatal that are other things that can be fatal that are associated with poor associated with poor associated with poor circulation. So, where should you start circulation. So, where should you start circulation. So, where should you start out? Go cold enough to gasp. Go long out? Go cold enough to gasp. Go long out? Go cold enough to gasp. Go long enough to shiver. And then after a enough to shiver. And then after a enough to shiver. And then after a couple of weeks, you might not shiver couple of weeks, you might not shiver couple of weeks, you might not shiver anymore, at least not at the same anymore, at least not at the same anymore, at least not at the same temperature. you you're not going to temperature. you you're not going to temperature. you you're not going to feel that shiver response unless you feel that shiver response unless you feel that shiver response unless you continue to reduce the temperature. Now, continue to reduce the temperature. Now, continue to reduce the temperature. Now, me, I'm at freezing. So, if it takes me, I'm at freezing. So, if it takes me, I'm at freezing. So, if it takes four or five minutes usually for me to four or five minutes usually for me to four or five minutes usually for me to have that shiver response, unless I'm in have that shiver response, unless I'm in have that shiver response, unless I'm in a fight with my director at ASU or I a fight with my director at ASU or I a fight with my director at ASU or I just had an argument with my girlfriend just had an argument with my girlfriend just had an argument with my girlfriend or some customer calls me up and wants a or some customer calls me up and wants a or some customer calls me up and wants a refund or, you know, or something is refund or, you know, or something is refund or, you know, or something is going on in my stress life, then I can going on in my stress life, then I can going on in my stress life, then I can start shivering after 30 seconds like I start shivering after 30 seconds like I start shivering after 30 seconds like I did this morning. Are you looking to get did this morning. Are you looking to get did this morning. Are you looking to get into shape or stay in shape? If so, into shape or stay in shape? If so, into shape or stay in shape? If so, you're going to want to add a low you're going to want to add a low you're going to want to add a low calorie, high protein drink to your

31:00calorie, high protein drink to your calorie, high protein drink to your daily regimen. This episode is brought daily regimen. This episode is brought daily regimen. This episode is brought to you by Hule, makers of this delicious to you by Hule, makers of this delicious to you by Hule, makers of this delicious protein drink. They've also got energy protein drink. They've also got energy protein drink. They've also got energy drinks, protein bars, and my favorite, drinks, protein bars, and my favorite, drinks, protein bars, and my favorite, their daily greens mix packed with 91 their daily greens mix packed with 91 their daily greens mix packed with 91 vitamins, minerals, and whole food vitamins, minerals, and whole food vitamins, minerals, and whole food source source source nutrients. Let's go. To receive a $15 nutrients. Let's go. To receive a $15 nutrients. Let's go. To receive a $15 off code, click the link to Hule in the off code, click the link to Hule in the off code, click the link to Hule in the show notes. Hule. It's fuel for humans. show notes. Hule. It's fuel for humans. show notes. Hule. It's fuel for humans. Hule. See what they did there? So, I Hule. See what they did there? So, I Hule. See what they did there? So, I have one uh plunge at my home and keep have one uh plunge at my home and keep have one uh plunge at my home and keep it in the 40s so that my wife and my it in the 40s so that my wife and my it in the 40s so that my wife and my kids will still use it because I have kids will still use it because I have kids will still use it because I have experimented and if we if we get too experimented and if we if we get too experimented and if we if we get too low, there's no way they're staying in low, there's no way they're staying in low, there's no way they're staying in there for more than 5 seconds. there for more than 5 seconds. there for more than 5 seconds. And so, to compensate for that, I And so, to compensate for that, I And so, to compensate for that, I usually just stay in longer. If I'm usually just stay in longer. If I'm usually just stay in longer. If I'm doing it regularly and it's getting

32:00doing it regularly and it's getting doing it regularly and it's getting easier and easier, I will just stay in easier and easier, I will just stay in easier and easier, I will just stay in for a longer period of time. And from for a longer period of time. And from for a longer period of time. And from what I'm hearing from you, as long as what I'm hearing from you, as long as what I'm hearing from you, as long as you get the shiver you get the shiver you get the shiver eventually, it's you're still going to eventually, it's you're still going to eventually, it's you're still going to get the benefits. Uh because man, I get the benefits. Uh because man, I get the benefits. Uh because man, I mean, I had a run of maybe like two mean, I had a run of maybe like two mean, I had a run of maybe like two months where I was going every day and I months where I was going every day and I months where I was going every day and I was like, I got to turn this thing down. was like, I got to turn this thing down. was like, I got to turn this thing down. It's just not doing anything for me. It's just not doing anything for me. It's just not doing anything for me. Now, it's more, let's say, twice a week Now, it's more, let's say, twice a week Now, it's more, let's say, twice a week is probably the average. Uh, on like is probably the average. Uh, on like is probably the average. Uh, on like nonworkout days, I'll just go in there. nonworkout days, I'll just go in there. nonworkout days, I'll just go in there. It's quick. I can get on with the day It's quick. I can get on with the day It's quick. I can get on with the day and and feel good. And then every time I and and feel good. And then every time I and and feel good. And then every time I do a podcast, I make sure to go in there do a podcast, I make sure to go in there do a podcast, I make sure to go in there in the morning just to be alert and in the morning just to be alert and in the morning just to be alert and awake. But that system will work. Is awake. But that system will work. Is awake. But that system will work. Is that correct? Yeah. You uh your that correct? Yeah. You uh your that correct? Yeah. You uh your instincts here are really good. You're instincts here are really good. You're instincts here are really good. You're kind of tuning up your brown fat twice a kind of tuning up your brown fat twice a kind of tuning up your brown fat twice a week and out of deference to the week and out of deference to the week and out of deference to the preferences of your family, you're like, preferences of your family, you're like, preferences of your family, you're like, "Okay, I'll stay in here a little longer "Okay, I'll stay in here a little longer "Okay, I'll stay in here a little longer at a warmer temperature." It makes total at a warmer temperature." It makes total at a warmer temperature." It makes total sense and it reminds me of a story. Um,

33:00sense and it reminds me of a story. Um, sense and it reminds me of a story. Um, one of our customers is the Proper Hotel one of our customers is the Proper Hotel one of our customers is the Proper Hotel in Austin, Texas. And I was in Austin in Austin, Texas. And I was in Austin in Austin, Texas. And I was in Austin chain of hotels, by the way. Oh, it's chain of hotels, by the way. Oh, it's chain of hotels, by the way. Oh, it's magnificent. They do everything so well. magnificent. They do everything so well. magnificent. They do everything so well. And so that's why they, you know, when And so that's why they, you know, when And so that's why they, you know, when they said, "Well, we're going to do they said, "Well, we're going to do they said, "Well, we're going to do these spas. Well, we want a moroscope." these spas. Well, we want a moroscope." these spas. Well, we want a moroscope." Makes total sense. But the proper hotel Makes total sense. But the proper hotel Makes total sense. But the proper hotel in Austin, um, it's kind of got a in Austin, um, it's kind of got a in Austin, um, it's kind of got a feminine feel that is a lot of my feminine feel that is a lot of my feminine feel that is a lot of my audience on Instagram, you know, you audience on Instagram, you know, you audience on Instagram, you know, you might think of them as Jim Bros or might think of them as Jim Bros or might think of them as Jim Bros or something like, you know, they're we're something like, you know, they're we're something like, you know, they're we're going to be tough. Joe Rogan talks about going to be tough. Joe Rogan talks about going to be tough. Joe Rogan talks about he's like, "You got to kill your inner he's like, "You got to kill your inner he's like, "You got to kill your inner bitch." You know, I don't know that bitch." You know, I don't know that bitch." You know, I don't know that David Gogggins actually has a lot of David Gogggins actually has a lot of David Gogggins actually has a lot of fans uh in female fans, right? So we are fans uh in female fans, right? So we are fans uh in female fans, right? So we are doing the hard Austin proper is not doing the hard Austin proper is not doing the hard Austin proper is not really like that. It's beautiful and really like that. It's beautiful and really like that. It's beautiful and it's comfortable and they have a spa it's comfortable and they have a spa it's comfortable and they have a spa that they know the ladies would enjoy. that they know the ladies would enjoy. that they know the ladies would enjoy. So I'm I've got this Society of Risk So I'm I've got this Society of Risk So I'm I've got this Society of Risk Analysis conference that I'm going to as Analysis conference that I'm going to as Analysis conference that I'm going to as a professor. I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to a professor. I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to

34:00a professor. I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to stay at the proper hotel. I'm going to stay at the proper hotel. I'm going to stay at the proper hotel. I'm going to mystery shop, you know, the mystery shop, you know, the mystery shop, you know, the Morasco." Nick, they keep it at 45°. So, Morasco." Nick, they keep it at 45°. So, Morasco." Nick, they keep it at 45°. So, I booked their thermal contrast room for I booked their thermal contrast room for I booked their thermal contrast room for 45 minutes, which is, you know, the time 45 minutes, which is, you know, the time 45 minutes, which is, you know, the time that they let it out and uh I went there that they let it out and uh I went there that they let it out and uh I went there with AJK and we're in there together and with AJK and we're in there together and with AJK and we're in there together and I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to do the I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to do the I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to do the cold plunge. You do the sauna and then cold plunge. You do the sauna and then cold plunge. You do the sauna and then we'll switch." 25 minutes I spent in we'll switch." 25 minutes I spent in we'll switch." 25 minutes I spent in that cold plunge. And it got to be where that cold plunge. And it got to be where that cold plunge. And it got to be where I'm like, "Is this thing ever going to I'm like, "Is this thing ever going to I'm like, "Is this thing ever going to kick in?" And she said, "You know, we kick in?" And she said, "You know, we kick in?" And she said, "You know, we only have 20 minutes of the room left." only have 20 minutes of the room left." only have 20 minutes of the room left." And I was like, "Uh-oh, I'm not even And I was like, "Uh-oh, I'm not even And I was like, "Uh-oh, I'm not even going to break a sweat if I get into the going to break a sweat if I get into the going to break a sweat if I get into the sauna cuz my skin temperature is already sauna cuz my skin temperature is already sauna cuz my skin temperature is already so cold. I got to I got to get out and so cold. I got to I got to get out and so cold. I got to I got to get out and see if I can get it." Well, the sauna see if I can get it." Well, the sauna see if I can get it." Well, the sauna only went up to 190, which meant I only went up to 190, which meant I only went up to 190, which meant I didn't sweat in the least. The Where is didn't sweat in the least. The Where is didn't sweat in the least. The Where is this story going? Yes, it's the total this story going? Yes, it's the total this story going? Yes, it's the total heat extraction that constitutes a dose. heat extraction that constitutes a dose. heat extraction that constitutes a dose. You can do 44 and stay in there longer,

35:00You can do 44 and stay in there longer, You can do 44 and stay in there longer, but there is a certain level um when but there is a certain level um when but there is a certain level um when you're highly cold trained where you you're highly cold trained where you you're highly cold trained where you could do that temperature indefinitely. could do that temperature indefinitely. could do that temperature indefinitely. And for me, 45° felt like indefinitely. And for me, 45° felt like indefinitely. And for me, 45° felt like indefinitely. It's just like in the gym, you were It's just like in the gym, you were It's just like in the gym, you were talking about the bench press. If you've talking about the bench press. If you've talking about the bench press. If you've got someone who's highly trained and got someone who's highly trained and got someone who's highly trained and they bench 300, you say, "Okay, but they bench 300, you say, "Okay, but they bench 300, you say, "Okay, but here's 120. You only have to do more here's 120. You only have to do more here's 120. You only have to do more reps." They do 500 rips, they get bo and reps." They do 500 rips, they get bo and reps." They do 500 rips, they get bo and they're like, "This isn't a challenge they're like, "This isn't a challenge they're like, "This isn't a challenge for me." And I felt like that with the for me." And I felt like that with the for me." And I felt like that with the cold. When you do thermal contrast, if cold. When you do thermal contrast, if cold. When you do thermal contrast, if you're going to do morasco at like 34, you're going to do morasco at like 34, you're going to do morasco at like 34, you got to have a sona that goes up to you got to have a sona that goes up to you got to have a sona that goes up to like 200 210 because otherwise this is like 200 210 because otherwise this is like 200 210 because otherwise this is going to take all day for you to start going to take all day for you to start going to take all day for you to start feeling that hormetic stress going back feeling that hormetic stress going back feeling that hormetic stress going back and forth. Speaking of and forth. Speaking of and forth. Speaking of weightlifting, is it correct you should weightlifting, is it correct you should weightlifting, is it correct you should plunge before the workout instead of plunge before the workout instead of plunge before the workout instead of after because the plunging after can

36:00after because the plunging after can after because the plunging after can slow down your hypertrophy or or stop it slow down your hypertrophy or or stop it slow down your hypertrophy or or stop it altogether? It's so correct. It's altogether? It's so correct. It's altogether? It's so correct. It's ridiculous and it's frustrating me that ridiculous and it's frustrating me that ridiculous and it's frustrating me that people haven't really uh caught on. I people haven't really uh caught on. I people haven't really uh caught on. I should be more patient. Um there have should be more patient. Um there have should be more patient. Um there have been dozens of studies using cold plunge been dozens of studies using cold plunge been dozens of studies using cold plunge for recovery from exercise because this for recovery from exercise because this for recovery from exercise because this is everything you know whether you had a is everything you know whether you had a is everything you know whether you had a high school track coach or something high school track coach or something high school track coach or something everybody said oh use the cold and the everybody said oh use the cold and the everybody said oh use the cold and the reason they said that is because it reason they said that is because it reason they said that is because it reduced delayed onset muscle soreness. reduced delayed onset muscle soreness. reduced delayed onset muscle soreness. you could go back to exercising again in you could go back to exercising again in you could go back to exercising again in a state of comfort. But when people do a state of comfort. But when people do a state of comfort. But when people do the studies, there is no improvement in the studies, there is no improvement in the studies, there is no improvement in performance a you know the next day if performance a you know the next day if performance a you know the next day if you've done the cold plunge after your you've done the cold plunge after your you've done the cold plunge after your exercise. And people have been really exercise. And people have been really exercise. And people have been really looking. Huberman has this good rule of looking. Huberman has this good rule of looking. Huberman has this good rule of thumb. He's like, "Wait four hours." And thumb. He's like, "Wait four hours." And thumb. He's like, "Wait four hours." And it he says that because he's read the it he says that because he's read the it he says that because he's read the same studies. You will blunt the

37:00same studies. You will blunt the same studies. You will blunt the anabolic response. you will um kind of anabolic response. you will um kind of anabolic response. you will um kind of negate the hormetic stress of the negate the hormetic stress of the negate the hormetic stress of the exercise if you do the cold exercise if you do the cold exercise if you do the cold after. But here's what I discovered after. But here's what I discovered after. But here's what I discovered accidentally. If you do the cold accidentally. If you do the cold accidentally. If you do the cold before, you will increase the anabolic before, you will increase the anabolic before, you will increase the anabolic response. And I say this came to me response. And I say this came to me response. And I say this came to me accidentally because I was not like an accidentally because I was not like an accidentally because I was not like an everyday ice bath guy until I got a everyday ice bath guy until I got a everyday ice bath guy until I got a blood test back. And that blood test blood test back. And that blood test blood test back. And that blood test said that my PSA, my prostate specific said that my PSA, my prostate specific said that my PSA, my prostate specific antigen was elevated. I was like seven antigen was elevated. I was like seven antigen was elevated. I was like seven nanograms per deciliter or whatever the nanograms per deciliter or whatever the nanograms per deciliter or whatever the units are. Now this was maybe five or 6 units are. Now this was maybe five or 6 units are. Now this was maybe five or 6 years ago and you get a report like that years ago and you get a report like that years ago and you get a report like that and it's got, you know, the red and it's got, you know, the red and it's got, you know, the red exclamation mark and it says too high. exclamation mark and it says too high. exclamation mark and it says too high. What do you do? You go right to WebMD. What do you do? You go right to WebMD. What do you do? You go right to WebMD. You go right to Mayo Clinic or Cleveland You go right to Mayo Clinic or Cleveland You go right to Mayo Clinic or Cleveland because this is what I do. I go online. because this is what I do. I go online. because this is what I do. I go online. I spent 20 minutes online. And I was I spent 20 minutes online. And I was I spent 20 minutes online. And I was convinced I was going to die of prostate convinced I was going to die of prostate convinced I was going to die of prostate cancer cuz that's what you know when you

38:00cancer cuz that's what you know when you cancer cuz that's what you know when you start reading about these things your start reading about these things your start reading about these things your catastrophic thoughts take over. I catastrophic thoughts take over. I catastrophic thoughts take over. I started talking to other men. I'm like started talking to other men. I'm like started talking to other men. I'm like you know have you ever had your PSA and you know have you ever had your PSA and you know have you ever had your PSA and blah blah blah. Turns out everybody my blah blah blah. Turns out everybody my blah blah blah. Turns out everybody my age has had some kind of experience like age has had some kind of experience like age has had some kind of experience like this and they are all terrible whether this and they are all terrible whether this and they are all terrible whether it's the pain of the biopsy or the it's the pain of the biopsy or the it's the pain of the biopsy or the sepsis infection after the biopsy or the sepsis infection after the biopsy or the sepsis infection after the biopsy or the erectile dysfunction after the prostate erectile dysfunction after the prostate erectile dysfunction after the prostate ectomy. So, here I am in a bit of a ectomy. So, here I am in a bit of a ectomy. So, here I am in a bit of a pickle. I'm convinced I'm going to die pickle. I'm convinced I'm going to die pickle. I'm convinced I'm going to die of prostate cancer, right? At least, you of prostate cancer, right? At least, you of prostate cancer, right? At least, you know, in my nightmare. I'm not going to know, in my nightmare. I'm not going to know, in my nightmare. I'm not going to go do a biopsy. I'm going to stay the go do a biopsy. I'm going to stay the go do a biopsy. I'm going to stay the hell away from alopathic medicine hell away from alopathic medicine hell away from alopathic medicine because I don't trust any of it. I've because I don't trust any of it. I've because I don't trust any of it. I've got to find another path. And I said, got to find another path. And I said, got to find another path. And I said, I'm going to treat this inflammation I'm going to treat this inflammation I'm going to treat this inflammation with ketogenic diet and ice baths. And with ketogenic diet and ice baths. And with ketogenic diet and ice baths. And that's when I started getting in every that's when I started getting in every that's when I started getting in every day cuz I was scared out of my mind in day cuz I was scared out of my mind in day cuz I was scared out of my mind in that moment. I had the guts to retest that moment. I had the guts to retest that moment. I had the guts to retest like four months later. I'm like, I know like four months later. I'm like, I know like four months later. I'm like, I know I got to keep an eye on this thing, but I got to keep an eye on this thing, but I got to keep an eye on this thing, but if it goes up, I didn't want those if it goes up, I didn't want those if it goes up, I didn't want those nudes. So, so I'm like, you know, am I

39:00nudes. So, so I'm like, you know, am I nudes. So, so I'm like, you know, am I going to go I got the test back. PSA going to go I got the test back. PSA going to go I got the test back. PSA dropped to less than two. And a weird dropped to less than two. And a weird dropped to less than two. And a weird thing happened, Nick, cuz if you check thing happened, Nick, cuz if you check thing happened, Nick, cuz if you check the, you know, male health panel, they the, you know, male health panel, they the, you know, male health panel, they will measure all this stuff, your PSA will measure all this stuff, your PSA will measure all this stuff, your PSA and your testosterone. And my and your testosterone. And my and your testosterone. And my testosterone went from like 700 to 1180 testosterone went from like 700 to 1180 testosterone went from like 700 to 1180 nanogs per decal. So the PSA it said was nanogs per decal. So the PSA it said was nanogs per decal. So the PSA it said was normal, but the testosterone report had normal, but the testosterone report had normal, but the testosterone report had the red exclamation mark and it said too the red exclamation mark and it said too the red exclamation mark and it said too high. And I'm like I didn't know how high. And I'm like I didn't know how high. And I'm like I didn't know how that happened. So I got to go back to that happened. So I got to go back to that happened. So I got to go back to the library. And there was a study from the library. And there was a study from the library. And there was a study from 1991 in Japan where they'd compared cold 1991 in Japan where they'd compared cold 1991 in Japan where they'd compared cold after exercise reduces testosterone, after exercise reduces testosterone, after exercise reduces testosterone, reduces luteinizing hormone. And then reduces luteinizing hormone. And then reduces luteinizing hormone. And then they said, "But just for, you know, they said, "But just for, you know, they said, "But just for, you know, giggles, we're going to do cold before giggles, we're going to do cold before giggles, we're going to do cold before exercise." Testosterone went up, exercise." Testosterone went up, exercise." Testosterone went up, luteinizing hormone went up. I didn't luteinizing hormone went up. I didn't luteinizing hormone went up. I didn't know what luteinizing hormone was at the know what luteinizing hormone was at the know what luteinizing hormone was at the time. But I took my test report to my

40:00time. But I took my test report to my time. But I took my test report to my urologist. I'm like, "Now I'm going to urologist. I'm like, "Now I'm going to urologist. I'm like, "Now I'm going to get a gold star and a clean bill of get a gold star and a clean bill of get a gold star and a clean bill of health." Right? look at my PSA. He health." Right? look at my PSA. He health." Right? look at my PSA. He didn't care about my PSA. He looked at didn't care about my PSA. He looked at didn't care about my PSA. He looked at my testosterone and he said, "There's no my testosterone and he said, "There's no my testosterone and he said, "There's no way this fat college professor, 50some way this fat college professor, 50some way this fat college professor, 50some years old, has 1180 nanogs per dec." years old, has 1180 nanogs per dec." years old, has 1180 nanogs per dec." He's like, "You're not on any creams or He's like, "You're not on any creams or He's like, "You're not on any creams or supplements or like what are you supplements or like what are you supplements or like what are you taking?" And I go, "Oh, I'm just doing taking?" And I go, "Oh, I'm just doing taking?" And I go, "Oh, I'm just doing ice baths." He goes, "I got one more ice baths." He goes, "I got one more ice baths." He goes, "I got one more test. This is the luteinizing hormone." test. This is the luteinizing hormone." test. This is the luteinizing hormone." So, I go get my blood drawn again. So, I go get my blood drawn again. So, I go get my blood drawn again. Luteinizing hormone is what signals a Luteinizing hormone is what signals a Luteinizing hormone is what signals a man's gonads to make testosterone. And I man's gonads to make testosterone. And I man's gonads to make testosterone. And I figured out later the urologist was figured out later the urologist was figured out later the urologist was like, if his luteinizing hormone is low like, if his luteinizing hormone is low like, if his luteinizing hormone is low and his testosterone is high, then and his testosterone is high, then and his testosterone is high, then Professor Seager is a liar and he's Professor Seager is a liar and he's Professor Seager is a liar and he's taking some kind of, you know, taking some kind of, you know, taking some kind of, you know, supplement, testosterone replacement, supplement, testosterone replacement, supplement, testosterone replacement, whatever the heck we're going to call whatever the heck we're going to call whatever the heck we're going to call it, and I'm not going to treat him it, and I'm not going to treat him it, and I'm not going to treat him anymore. Well, my luteinizing hormone anymore. Well, my luteinizing hormone anymore. Well, my luteinizing hormone came back red exclamation mark, too came back red exclamation mark, too came back red exclamation mark, too high. It was 8.9. I sent that to my

41:00high. It was 8.9. I sent that to my high. It was 8.9. I sent that to my urologist. Guess what? He's not going to urologist. Guess what? He's not going to urologist. Guess what? He's not going to treat me anymore because there's nothing treat me anymore because there's nothing treat me anymore because there's nothing wrong with me, Nick. There's nothing wrong with me, Nick. There's nothing wrong with me, Nick. There's nothing left for him to treat. So, I wrote this left for him to treat. So, I wrote this left for him to treat. So, I wrote this article. I said, "Hey, this is a weird article. I said, "Hey, this is a weird article. I said, "Hey, this is a weird thing. You know, do your cold before you thing. You know, do your cold before you thing. You know, do your cold before you do your do your do your exercise." Hubberman had Craig Heler, exercise." Hubberman had Craig Heler, exercise." Hubberman had Craig Heler, who's a Stanford professor on his show. who's a Stanford professor on his show. who's a Stanford professor on his show. And Craig Heler has been taking highly And Craig Heler has been taking highly And Craig Heler has been taking highly trained athletes like professional trained athletes like professional trained athletes like professional athletes and untrained like graduate athletes and untrained like graduate athletes and untrained like graduate students and saying what happens if I students and saying what happens if I students and saying what happens if I extract heat. He does it through the extract heat. He does it through the extract heat. He does it through the palms extract heat from their body palms extract heat from their body palms extract heat from their body during you know in between sets. Turns during you know in between sets. Turns during you know in between sets. Turns out their performance goes way up. Their out their performance goes way up. Their out their performance goes way up. Their um peak muscle power goes way up. their um peak muscle power goes way up. their um peak muscle power goes way up. their endurance goes way up and they probably endurance goes way up and they probably endurance goes way up and they probably get a testosterone boost. So, I wrote get a testosterone boost. So, I wrote get a testosterone boost. So, I wrote this article. Nobody reads my stuff cuz this article. Nobody reads my stuff cuz this article. Nobody reads my stuff cuz who goes to who goes to who goes to moroscoforge.com, you know, to read

42:00moroscoforge.com, you know, to read moroscoforge.com, you know, to read health advice or something. But I health advice or something. But I health advice or something. But I remember getting off the plane in remember getting off the plane in remember getting off the plane in December 2022, December 2022, December 2022, uh, when I'm I'm going to see the uh, when I'm I'm going to see the uh, when I'm I'm going to see the northern lights. Yay. And so I land in northern lights. Yay. And so I land in northern lights. Yay. And so I land in Iceland and it's dark and it's cold and Iceland and it's dark and it's cold and Iceland and it's dark and it's cold and you know how you turn your phone back you know how you turn your phone back you know how you turn your phone back on, it's all lit up. People are like, on, it's all lit up. People are like, on, it's all lit up. People are like, "Tom, you're on the Joe Rogan Show." "Tom, you're on the Joe Rogan Show." "Tom, you're on the Joe Rogan Show." Because Joe read the article and Joe was Because Joe read the article and Joe was Because Joe read the article and Joe was reading it out to David Gogggins and reading it out to David Gogggins and reading it out to David Gogggins and saying, "Now I only precool. I do my ice saying, "Now I only precool. I do my ice saying, "Now I only precool. I do my ice bath and then I do my exercise." And I bath and then I do my exercise." And I bath and then I do my exercise." And I started getting messages from you know started getting messages from you know started getting messages from you know next year 18 months from all over the next year 18 months from all over the next year 18 months from all over the world guys saying I found the article world guys saying I found the article world guys saying I found the article Joe Rogan was talking about. I started Joe Rogan was talking about. I started Joe Rogan was talking about. I started doing pre-cooling my testosterone is doing pre-cooling my testosterone is doing pre-cooling my testosterone is going through the roof. Now I have you going through the roof. Now I have you going through the roof. Now I have you know three more articles and they know three more articles and they know three more articles and they include a number of case studies. These include a number of case studies. These include a number of case studies. These are documented lab report before after are documented lab report before after are documented lab report before after I've interviewed every single one of I've interviewed every single one of I've interviewed every single one of these people and they say this is what I these people and they say this is what I these people and they say this is what I did and this is the impact that I had. did and this is the impact that I had. did and this is the impact that I had. And I was bothered by two cases that

43:00And I was bothered by two cases that And I was bothered by two cases that didn't get any testosterone boost at didn't get any testosterone boost at didn't get any testosterone boost at all. By the way, I have two women in all. By the way, I have two women in all. By the way, I have two women in these case studies. They get a these case studies. They get a these case studies. They get a testosterone boost. Let me talk about testosterone boost. Let me talk about testosterone boost. Let me talk about that. So, these two cases and um it was that. So, these two cases and um it was that. So, these two cases and um it was AJK again. She said, "Well, are they AJK again. She said, "Well, are they AJK again. She said, "Well, are they taking any other meds?" So, I asked taking any other meds?" So, I asked taking any other meds?" So, I asked them, "Yes, they were both taking them, "Yes, they were both taking them, "Yes, they were both taking medications for other conditions that medications for other conditions that medications for other conditions that interfere with testosterone production." interfere with testosterone production." interfere with testosterone production." And I'm like, "Okay, that explains it." And I'm like, "Okay, that explains it." And I'm like, "Okay, that explains it." I didn't have a mechanism until I think I didn't have a mechanism until I think I didn't have a mechanism until I think it was a post that I saw from Dr. it was a post that I saw from Dr. it was a post that I saw from Dr. Courtourtney Hunt. She's in Scottsdale. Courtourtney Hunt. She's in Scottsdale. Courtourtney Hunt. She's in Scottsdale. She's a customer. She's an MD. And she She's a customer. She's an MD. And she She's a customer. She's an MD. And she said, "Hey, do you know where said, "Hey, do you know where said, "Hey, do you know where testosterone comes from?" The testosterone comes from?" The testosterone comes from?" The mitochondria. The mitochondria take mitochondria. The mitochondria take mitochondria. The mitochondria take cholesterol and they recombine it into a cholesterol and they recombine it into a cholesterol and they recombine it into a steroid. And that steroid is the steroid. And that steroid is the steroid. And that steroid is the precursor to testosterone. If your precursor to testosterone. If your precursor to testosterone. If your mitochondria are damaged, then the last mitochondria are damaged, then the last mitochondria are damaged, then the last thing that they're going to do is start thing that they're going to do is start thing that they're going to do is start producing steroids. Like, they're just

44:00producing steroids. Like, they're just producing steroids. Like, they're just trying to keep up with the essential trying to keep up with the essential trying to keep up with the essential functions of your body. If you have functions of your body. If you have functions of your body. If you have healthy mitochondria, then the healthy healthy mitochondria, then the healthy healthy mitochondria, then the healthy mitochondria will convert cholesterol to mitochondria will convert cholesterol to mitochondria will convert cholesterol to steroids, which is then converted to steroids, which is then converted to steroids, which is then converted to other sex hormones in your body. And I'm other sex hormones in your body. And I'm other sex hormones in your body. And I'm like, that's a mechanism, Nick. So low like, that's a mechanism, Nick. So low like, that's a mechanism, Nick. So low tea should be an indication for cold tea should be an indication for cold tea should be an indication for cold plunge plunge plunge therapy. Story isn't quite over. Mark therapy. Story isn't quite over. Mark therapy. Story isn't quite over. Mark Bell invites me to come out on the Bell invites me to come out on the Bell invites me to come out on the podcast. If you don't know Mark, he's podcast. If you don't know Mark, he's podcast. If you don't know Mark, he's famous for taking massive doses of famous for taking massive doses of famous for taking massive doses of testosterone that they wouldn't even testosterone that they wouldn't even testosterone that they wouldn't even dare to give a racehorse, you know. And dare to give a racehorse, you know. And dare to give a racehorse, you know. And he goes, "Look at me, you know, doing he goes, "Look at me, you know, doing he goes, "Look at me, you know, doing previously." He says, "Hey, come on the previously." He says, "Hey, come on the previously." He says, "Hey, come on the the show, you know, we'll talk about the show, you know, we'll talk about the show, you know, we'll talk about testosterone and we'll talk about ice testosterone and we'll talk about ice testosterone and we'll talk about ice baths and And Mark Bell is a smart guy baths and And Mark Bell is a smart guy baths and And Mark Bell is a smart guy with a great sense of humor. I'm like, with a great sense of humor. I'm like, with a great sense of humor. I'm like, "Sure, I'm going on the show." But he's "Sure, I'm going on the show." But he's "Sure, I'm going on the show." But he's also a clever entertainer. He played a also a clever entertainer. He played a also a clever entertainer. He played a clip of a medical doctor and he says, clip of a medical doctor and he says, clip of a medical doctor and he says, "Uh, you know, Professor Seeker, this "Uh, you know, Professor Seeker, this "Uh, you know, Professor Seeker, this medical doctor says he would never medical doctor says he would never medical doctor says he would never prescribe cold plunge therapy under any

45:00prescribe cold plunge therapy under any prescribe cold plunge therapy under any circumstances for any of his circumstances for any of his circumstances for any of his patients. What do you say?" Cuz one of patients. What do you say?" Cuz one of patients. What do you say?" Cuz one of the best ways, you know, to entertain the best ways, you know, to entertain the best ways, you know, to entertain the audience is that game like let's you the audience is that game like let's you the audience is that game like let's you and him fight, you know? Yeah. Right. and him fight, you know? Yeah. Right. and him fight, you know? Yeah. Right. And I watch this clip and I'm And I watch this clip and I'm And I watch this clip and I'm like, hang on a second. There is no like, hang on a second. There is no like, hang on a second. There is no class in medical school that teaches class in medical school that teaches class in medical school that teaches doctors when to prescribe cold plunge doctors when to prescribe cold plunge doctors when to prescribe cold plunge therapy. So they're they can't do it. therapy. So they're they can't do it. therapy. So they're they can't do it. They're not allowed. Like they've never They're not allowed. Like they've never They're not allowed. Like they've never been trained on this stuff. Now I got to been trained on this stuff. Now I got to been trained on this stuff. Now I got to write the clinical guide to cold plunge write the clinical guide to cold plunge write the clinical guide to cold plunge therapy. Say what are the indications? therapy. Say what are the indications? therapy. Say what are the indications? What are the contraindications? and What are the contraindications? and What are the contraindications? and forwardthinking medical doctors like forwardthinking medical doctors like forwardthinking medical doctors like Courtney Hunt or Dr. Kirk Parsley or Courtney Hunt or Dr. Kirk Parsley or Courtney Hunt or Dr. Kirk Parsley or other people that I'm working with who other people that I'm working with who other people that I'm working with who are medical professionals. I'm a PhD. are medical professionals. I'm a PhD. are medical professionals. I'm a PhD. They will know when to prescribe cold They will know when to prescribe cold They will know when to prescribe cold plunge therapy and what the contra plunge therapy and what the contra plunge therapy and what the contra indications and safety protocols are. So indications and safety protocols are. So indications and safety protocols are. So this is changing. You ask me this this is changing. You ask me this this is changing. You ask me this question, you know, should you do it question, you know, should you do it question, you know, should you do it before or you do it after? And in my before or you do it after? And in my before or you do it after? And in my mind, I'm like, okay, this is all

46:00mind, I'm like, okay, this is all mind, I'm like, okay, this is all settled. I've got all the case studies, settled. I've got all the case studies, settled. I've got all the case studies, all the data. But you still get people all the data. But you still get people all the data. But you still get people on, you know, Instagram saying cold on, you know, Instagram saying cold on, you know, Instagram saying cold plunge doesn't do anything. Uh because plunge doesn't do anything. Uh because plunge doesn't do anything. Uh because they're doing it after exercise. You they're doing it after exercise. You they're doing it after exercise. You should 100% be precooling your should 100% be precooling your should 100% be precooling your exercise. Will plunging increase your exercise. Will plunging increase your exercise. Will plunging increase your free free free testosterone? I don't know. And I don't testosterone? I don't know. And I don't testosterone? I don't know. And I don't know because I don't care. I don't care know because I don't care. I don't care know because I don't care. I don't care enough to ask, right? enough to ask, right? enough to ask, right? Um, I I think total is the important Um, I I think total is the important Um, I I think total is the important one. And I'm trying to remember who one. And I'm trying to remember who one. And I'm trying to remember who convinced me of this because I went to a convinced me of this because I went to a convinced me of this because I went to a seminar at Parker University in Texas in seminar at Parker University in Texas in seminar at Parker University in Texas in Dallas, Texas. Andy Galpin was given Dallas, Texas. Andy Galpin was given Dallas, Texas. Andy Galpin was given this seminar and it was with a friend of this seminar and it was with a friend of this seminar and it was with a friend of his. I wish I could remember his name his. I wish I could remember his name his. I wish I could remember his name because now I'm embarrassed. And they because now I'm embarrassed. And they because now I'm embarrassed. And they got the exact same question. you know, got the exact same question. you know, got the exact same question. you know, uh, what's more important, free or uh, what's more important, free or uh, what's more important, free or total? They said it's total because your

47:00total? They said it's total because your total? They said it's total because your total testosterone is the reservoir that total testosterone is the reservoir that total testosterone is the reservoir that allows your body to partition into free allows your body to partition into free allows your body to partition into free when you need it. We know free is more when you need it. We know free is more when you need it. We know free is more active, right? But if you have that active, right? But if you have that active, right? But if you have that reservoir of total, your body knows when reservoir of total, your body knows when reservoir of total, your body knows when to release it into the active form. And to release it into the active form. And to release it into the active form. And I'm like, well, okay, that makes sense I'm like, well, okay, that makes sense I'm like, well, okay, that makes sense to me. Uh now it's convenient that um I to me. Uh now it's convenient that um I to me. Uh now it's convenient that um I was only paying attention to my total. was only paying attention to my total. was only paying attention to my total. That's what my lab report came back. But That's what my lab report came back. But That's what my lab report came back. But the explanation I got there made sense the explanation I got there made sense the explanation I got there made sense to me. The question I have for you is um to me. The question I have for you is um to me. The question I have for you is um is free something that is important to is free something that is important to is free something that is important to you? The reason I ask is there was a you? The reason I ask is there was a you? The reason I ask is there was a doctor on a previous episode and I asked doctor on a previous episode and I asked doctor on a previous episode and I asked him about testosterone supplementation him about testosterone supplementation him about testosterone supplementation because it's gone gang busters across because it's gone gang busters across because it's gone gang busters across the country because suddenly it became the country because suddenly it became the country because suddenly it became legal uh whereas it was highly

48:00legal uh whereas it was highly legal uh whereas it was highly restricted before and I have never done restricted before and I have never done restricted before and I have never done it and so I don't know a lot about it it and so I don't know a lot about it it and so I don't know a lot about it and so I was curious and so I was curious and so I was curious and he said and He knew a lot about and he said and He knew a lot about and he said and He knew a lot about testosterone supplementation. And he testosterone supplementation. And he testosterone supplementation. And he said, "Well, the thing you need to check said, "Well, the thing you need to check said, "Well, the thing you need to check if you want to find out if you're if you want to find out if you're if you want to find out if you're deficient, if you need testosterone deficient, if you need testosterone deficient, if you need testosterone supplementation is the free supplementation is the free supplementation is the free testosterone." And often that's not testosterone." And often that's not testosterone." And often that's not included in the initial testing of included in the initial testing of included in the initial testing of testosterone. If you just go in and ask testosterone. If you just go in and ask testosterone. If you just go in and ask your medical provider, it's a more time your medical provider, it's a more time your medical provider, it's a more time consuming and expensive test to measure consuming and expensive test to measure consuming and expensive test to measure the free testosterone. He said, "We need the free testosterone. He said, "We need the free testosterone. He said, "We need that number to determine if you need TRT that number to determine if you need TRT that number to determine if you need TRT supplementation." Uh because basically supplementation." Uh because basically supplementation." Uh because basically he said, "If your free testosterone is he said, "If your free testosterone is he said, "If your free testosterone is low given your age and metabolic health, low given your age and metabolic health, low given your age and metabolic health, then testosterone supplementation will then testosterone supplementation will then testosterone supplementation will be a good thing. We're just trying to be a good thing. We're just trying to be a good thing. We're just trying to get you back to the normal levels for get you back to the normal levels for get you back to the normal levels for your age." If they're already normal and your age." If they're already normal and your age." If they're already normal and you start taking it, well, yeah, you're you start taking it, well, yeah, you're you start taking it, well, yeah, you're going to get some short-term benefits

49:00going to get some short-term benefits going to get some short-term benefits like getting jacked and having more like getting jacked and having more like getting jacked and having more energy and and suddenly your libido is energy and and suddenly your libido is energy and and suddenly your libido is going to be on fire. He's like, but going to be on fire. He's like, but going to be on fire. He's like, but you're paying with some long-term you're paying with some long-term you're paying with some long-term consequences. I the reason I'm asking consequences. I the reason I'm asking consequences. I the reason I'm asking about the free testosterone is just about the free testosterone is just about the free testosterone is just linking those two conversations. And I linking those two conversations. And I linking those two conversations. And I was just wondering if cold plunging was was just wondering if cold plunging was was just wondering if cold plunging was a way to move that number up a little a way to move that number up a little a way to move that number up a little bit in a way that doesn't involve having bit in a way that doesn't involve having bit in a way that doesn't involve having to go out and get the supplement. As a to go out and get the supplement. As a to go out and get the supplement. As a medical doctor, he's asking a specific medical doctor, he's asking a specific medical doctor, he's asking a specific question. Is this patient a good question. Is this patient a good question. Is this patient a good candidate for hormone replacement candidate for hormone replacement candidate for hormone replacement therapy? And he says the criteria that I therapy? And he says the criteria that I therapy? And he says the criteria that I use to identify people who are use to identify people who are use to identify people who are testosterone deficient to the extent testosterone deficient to the extent testosterone deficient to the extent that I would prescribe you know hormone that I would prescribe you know hormone that I would prescribe you know hormone replacement therapy is the free test. replacement therapy is the free test. replacement therapy is the free test. I'm not not going to argue with this in I'm not not going to argue with this in I'm not not going to argue with this in the least. Those are his medical the least. Those are his medical the least. Those are his medical criteria. They sound right to me. The criteria. They sound right to me. The criteria. They sound right to me. The argument that I have with the medical argument that I have with the medical argument that I have with the medical doctors and testosterone is that let's doctors and testosterone is that let's doctors and testosterone is that let's say you know a 25 or 26 year old guy say you know a 25 or 26 year old guy say you know a 25 or 26 year old guy will go and get you know their total

50:00will go and get you know their total will go and get you know their total testosterone will come back let's say testosterone will come back let's say testosterone will come back let's say 450 and the doctor will say oh you're 450 and the doctor will say oh you're 450 and the doctor will say oh you're fine you're normal Nick normal sucks I fine you're normal Nick normal sucks I fine you're normal Nick normal sucks I don't want to be normal I want to be don't want to be normal I want to be don't want to be normal I want to be healthy I want to be energetic now at my healthy I want to be energetic now at my healthy I want to be energetic now at my age when the first time I got my age when the first time I got my age when the first time I got my testosterone checked was when my PSA testosterone checked was when my PSA testosterone checked was when my PSA came back high And I was like 750, you came back high And I was like 750, you came back high And I was like 750, you know, which is pretty good. I'd been know, which is pretty good. I'd been know, which is pretty good. I'd been doing some ice bath. I'd lost a lot of doing some ice bath. I'd lost a lot of doing some ice bath. I'd lost a lot of weight and that's great. Any medical weight and that's great. Any medical weight and that's great. Any medical doctor would have said, "Ah, Professor doctor would have said, "Ah, Professor doctor would have said, "Ah, Professor Seager, you're fine. Look at you. You're Seager, you're fine. Look at you. You're Seager, you're fine. Look at you. You're so healthy." The difference between 750 so healthy." The difference between 750 so healthy." The difference between 750 and 1180 is palpable and you want it. I and 1180 is palpable and you want it. I and 1180 is palpable and you want it. I don't know about the long-term don't know about the long-term don't know about the long-term consequences of hormone replacement consequences of hormone replacement consequences of hormone replacement therapy. Just my intuition says we're therapy. Just my intuition says we're therapy. Just my intuition says we're better off if we're making our own better off if we're making our own better off if we're making our own supply. But the men I've talked to who supply. But the men I've talked to who supply. But the men I've talked to who are really down there, total are really down there, total are really down there, total testosterone below 300, these men are testosterone below 300, these men are testosterone below 300, these men are depressed. There are mental health depressed. There are mental health depressed. There are mental health consequences of being low T. They are in

51:00consequences of being low T. They are in consequences of being low T. They are in such a funk that when you put them, I such a funk that when you put them, I such a funk that when you put them, I shouldn't say you, when a doctor puts shouldn't say you, when a doctor puts shouldn't say you, when a doctor puts them on TRT or HRT, and they get up to them on TRT or HRT, and they get up to them on TRT or HRT, and they get up to something like 800 that would be something like 800 that would be something like 800 that would be considered healthy, they don't ever want considered healthy, they don't ever want considered healthy, they don't ever want to go back because the malaise of low to go back because the malaise of low to go back because the malaise of low tea, what it does to your relationship, tea, what it does to your relationship, tea, what it does to your relationship, you know, if you're married is horrible. you know, if you're married is horrible. you know, if you're married is horrible. So, a lot of the guys that I talk to, So, a lot of the guys that I talk to, So, a lot of the guys that I talk to, regardless of what ice baths are going regardless of what ice baths are going regardless of what ice baths are going to do, they're like, "Nope, I'm I'm to do, they're like, "Nope, I'm I'm to do, they're like, "Nope, I'm I'm gonna take this as, you know, I don't gonna take this as, you know, I don't gonna take this as, you know, I don't want to take a chance that I'll ever go want to take a chance that I'll ever go want to take a chance that I'll ever go back." And those guys are getting up to back." And those guys are getting up to back." And those guys are getting up to like like like 1300,500. Because when you stack the HRT 1300,500. Because when you stack the HRT 1300,500. Because when you stack the HRT on top of a cold plunge practice, you on top of a cold plunge practice, you on top of a cold plunge practice, you get these super elevated levels of get these super elevated levels of get these super elevated levels of testosterone. I have yet to meet a man testosterone. I have yet to meet a man testosterone. I have yet to meet a man or a woman for that matter who was not or a woman for that matter who was not or a woman for that matter who was not happy about it. Yeah. And I'm all for it happy about it. Yeah. And I'm all for it happy about it. Yeah. And I'm all for it if you need it. It just it's a question if you need it. It just it's a question if you need it. It just it's a question I'm interested in. U just based on this

52:00I'm interested in. U just based on this I'm interested in. U just based on this new landscape that we live in where new landscape that we live in where new landscape that we live in where there are these clinics and obviously there are these clinics and obviously there are these clinics and obviously they're incentivized to give you they're incentivized to give you they're incentivized to give you whatever you ask for uh whether you need whatever you ask for uh whether you need whatever you ask for uh whether you need it or not. And so I'm I'm just curious it or not. And so I'm I'm just curious it or not. And so I'm I'm just curious about that, but it's a bit off off about that, but it's a bit off off about that, but it's a bit off off topic. Um, let's let's turn to the topic. Um, let's let's turn to the topic. Um, let's let's turn to the women's health piece because you talked women's health piece because you talked women's health piece because you talked about raising um testosterone levels. about raising um testosterone levels. about raising um testosterone levels. And I know the last time I did a medical And I know the last time I did a medical And I know the last time I did a medical episode, there were several questions episode, there were several questions episode, there were several questions from women saying, "Hey, could you ask from women saying, "Hey, could you ask from women saying, "Hey, could you ask some more specific questions as it some more specific questions as it some more specific questions as it relates to women's health?" Because relates to women's health?" Because relates to women's health?" Because oftent times it's different. And so, oftent times it's different. And so, oftent times it's different. And so, here we go. You know, no surprise, there here we go. You know, no surprise, there here we go. You know, no surprise, there are differences between men and women. are differences between men and women. are differences between men and women. There are metabolic differences. There There are metabolic differences. There There are metabolic differences. There are sex hormone differences. Let's um are sex hormone differences. Let's um are sex hormone differences. Let's um start from that start from that start from that supposition. In a man, most of the supposition. In a man, most of the supposition. In a man, most of the testosterone, for example, is made in testosterone, for example, is made in testosterone, for example, is made in the gonads. And you might think, oh, the gonads. And you might think, oh, the gonads. And you might think, oh, well, women, they have, you know, way well, women, they have, you know, way well, women, they have, you know, way less testosterone than men, but it would

53:00less testosterone than men, but it would less testosterone than men, but it would be made in the ovaries. And that's true. be made in the ovaries. And that's true. be made in the ovaries. And that's true. Turns out that a healthy woman has three Turns out that a healthy woman has three Turns out that a healthy woman has three to four times as much testosterone as to four times as much testosterone as to four times as much testosterone as she has estrogen. Testosterone is the she has estrogen. Testosterone is the she has estrogen. Testosterone is the dominant sex hormone in women as well as dominant sex hormone in women as well as dominant sex hormone in women as well as men. It's just that the levels are much men. It's just that the levels are much men. It's just that the levels are much lower in women and only about a quarter lower in women and only about a quarter lower in women and only about a quarter of it comes from the ovaries. So where's of it comes from the ovaries. So where's of it comes from the ovaries. So where's the rest? The adrenal glands, the skin the rest? The adrenal glands, the skin the rest? The adrenal glands, the skin cells, and fat cells. Guess what happens cells, and fat cells. Guess what happens cells, and fat cells. Guess what happens when you get into the ice bath? You when you get into the ice bath? You when you get into the ice bath? You stimulate the adrenal glands, the fat stimulate the adrenal glands, the fat stimulate the adrenal glands, the fat cells, and the skin cells. There's only cells, and the skin cells. There's only cells, and the skin cells. There's only a little bit of data. And what it shows a little bit of data. And what it shows a little bit of data. And what it shows is that women get an immediate is that women get an immediate is that women get an immediate testosterone boost from cold testosterone boost from cold testosterone boost from cold stimulation. Men don't. Men need to stimulation. Men don't. Men need to stimulation. Men don't. Men need to exercise afterwards, but women get this exercise afterwards, but women get this exercise afterwards, but women get this immediate boost. And it has some of the immediate boost. And it has some of the immediate boost. And it has some of the same effects, not all, but some of the same effects, not all, but some of the same effects, not all, but some of the same effects in women. For example, it same effects in women. For example, it same effects in women. For example, it drives libido. This is a wonderful drives libido. This is a wonderful drives libido. This is a wonderful thing, Nick. Um, if you can, you know, thing, Nick. Um, if you can, you know, thing, Nick. Um, if you can, you know, keep your wife getting into that regular

54:00keep your wife getting into that regular keep your wife getting into that regular practice of cold plunging, it might I practice of cold plunging, it might I practice of cold plunging, it might I don't know what your marriage is like. don't know what your marriage is like. don't know what your marriage is like. I'm not going to pry. But in my I'm not going to pry. But in my I'm not going to pry. But in my experience, having the woman that I'm experience, having the woman that I'm experience, having the woman that I'm with do a little cold plunge has been a with do a little cold plunge has been a with do a little cold plunge has been a good thing for our good thing for our good thing for our relationship. Women often get overlooked relationship. Women often get overlooked relationship. Women often get overlooked when it comes to testosterone. They find when it comes to testosterone. They find when it comes to testosterone. They find themselves, especially after menopause, themselves, especially after menopause, themselves, especially after menopause, they might be in a low tea situation and they might be in a low tea situation and they might be in a low tea situation and they experience some of the same they experience some of the same they experience some of the same malaise. But the number one diagnostic malaise. But the number one diagnostic malaise. But the number one diagnostic criteria for putting a woman on hormone criteria for putting a woman on hormone criteria for putting a woman on hormone replacement or or testosterone replacement or or testosterone replacement or or testosterone supplement therapy is low libido. And supplement therapy is low libido. And supplement therapy is low libido. And there are no FDA approved protocols for there are no FDA approved protocols for there are no FDA approved protocols for treating women with testosterone. So a treating women with testosterone. So a treating women with testosterone. So a clinician who has this woman, she's clinician who has this woman, she's clinician who has this woman, she's complaining about the quality of her complaining about the quality of her complaining about the quality of her life or whatever, I shouldn't say life or whatever, I shouldn't say life or whatever, I shouldn't say complaining, she's describing this and complaining, she's describing this and complaining, she's describing this and it's not satisfactory to her. that it's not satisfactory to her. that it's not satisfactory to her. that clinician has to adapt a male protocol clinician has to adapt a male protocol clinician has to adapt a male protocol and then try and fit it into the woman's

55:00and then try and fit it into the woman's and then try and fit it into the woman's life, which is a little easier after life, which is a little easier after life, which is a little easier after menopause than when she still has her menopause than when she still has her menopause than when she still has her cycle. I just do it naturally. Now, cycle. I just do it naturally. Now, cycle. I just do it naturally. Now, because I'm not a woman, I don't have because I'm not a woman, I don't have because I'm not a woman, I don't have personal experience. I'm relying upon personal experience. I'm relying upon personal experience. I'm relying upon two readers in particular. One of them two readers in particular. One of them two readers in particular. One of them is Pamela Butler, and I can use her name is Pamela Butler, and I can use her name is Pamela Butler, and I can use her name because, you know, we're on Instagram because, you know, we're on Instagram because, you know, we're on Instagram and she's given me permission. We did an and she's given me permission. We did an and she's given me permission. We did an interview. She had her ovaries interview. She had her ovaries interview. She had her ovaries surgically removed. She had a hyerectomy surgically removed. She had a hyerectomy surgically removed. She had a hyerectomy and I forget the word an ovarctomy. Um, and I forget the word an ovarctomy. Um, and I forget the word an ovarctomy. Um, so that portion of her testosterone so that portion of her testosterone so that portion of her testosterone production, it's just gone. She was low production, it's just gone. She was low production, it's just gone. She was low tea and her doctor put her on hormone tea and her doctor put her on hormone tea and her doctor put her on hormone replacement therapy. Then she started replacement therapy. Then she started replacement therapy. Then she started doing ice baths. She got a 10x increase doing ice baths. She got a 10x increase doing ice baths. She got a 10x increase in her testosterone. And her doctor was in her testosterone. And her doctor was in her testosterone. And her doctor was like, "Wait a second. We got to get you. like, "Wait a second. We got to get you. like, "Wait a second. We got to get you. What are you doing? We got to What are you doing? We got to What are you doing? We got to discontinue the hormones immediately." discontinue the hormones immediately." discontinue the hormones immediately." and whatever it is, keep that up. She and whatever it is, keep that up. She and whatever it is, keep that up. She was doing ice baths and then it seems to was doing ice baths and then it seems to was doing ice baths and then it seems to me any any way you could do it naturally

56:00me any any way you could do it naturally me any any way you could do it naturally is going to be a better way. Let's do is going to be a better way. Let's do is going to be a better way. Let's do that, right? Yeah. Intuitively, it makes that, right? Yeah. Intuitively, it makes that, right? Yeah. Intuitively, it makes sense. And I think it's better for sense. And I think it's better for sense. And I think it's better for everyone except Fizer. You know, it's everyone except Fizer. You know, it's everyone except Fizer. You know, it's better for everyone except Monna. But better for everyone except Monna. But better for everyone except Monna. But your doctor would probably agree. So, I your doctor would probably agree. So, I your doctor would probably agree. So, I put out that post and then I got a put out that post and then I got a put out that post and then I got a message from a reader, uh, young woman, message from a reader, uh, young woman, message from a reader, uh, young woman, 32 years old, uh, very healthy. She's a 32 years old, uh, very healthy. She's a 32 years old, uh, very healthy. She's a biohacker and she said, "I'm going to biohacker and she said, "I'm going to biohacker and she said, "I'm going to put this to the test." And she measuring put this to the test." And she measuring put this to the test." And she measuring her testosterone and I think it was day her testosterone and I think it was day her testosterone and I think it was day three of her cycle, like she very three of her cycle, like she very three of her cycle, like she very fastidious about this. She starts doing fastidious about this. She starts doing fastidious about this. She starts doing the ice baths. She wrote to me and she the ice baths. She wrote to me and she the ice baths. She wrote to me and she said, "Uh, Professor Ziger, I don't said, "Uh, Professor Ziger, I don't said, "Uh, Professor Ziger, I don't know. I only got a know. I only got a know. I only got a 0.5 increase." And that's not a very big 0.5 increase." And that's not a very big 0.5 increase." And that's not a very big increase. You know, I don't know what's increase. You know, I don't know what's increase. You know, I don't know what's going on with your other readers, but I going on with your other readers, but I going on with your other readers, but I didn't see a big one. I said, "Will you didn't see a big one. I said, "Will you didn't see a big one. I said, "Will you send me your test results?" Nick, she's send me your test results?" Nick, she's send me your test results?" Nick, she's in the United Kingdom. In the United in the United Kingdom. In the United in the United Kingdom. In the United Kingdom, they measure testosterone in Kingdom, they measure testosterone in Kingdom, they measure testosterone in molar units instead of grams, instead of

57:00molar units instead of grams, instead of molar units instead of grams, instead of mass units. Right? So, you got to do the mass units. Right? So, you got to do the mass units. Right? So, you got to do the unit conversion. She got a 0.5 increase. unit conversion. She got a 0.5 increase. unit conversion. She got a 0.5 increase. She went from 0.6 6 to 1.1 you know She went from 0.6 6 to 1.1 you know She went from 0.6 6 to 1.1 you know whatever it is mill moles of she almost whatever it is mill moles of she almost whatever it is mill moles of she almost doubled her testosterone by doing these doubled her testosterone by doing these doubled her testosterone by doing these ice baths I had to write her back and ice baths I had to write her back and ice baths I had to write her back and have the interview and she goes oh well have the interview and she goes oh well have the interview and she goes oh well that does explain some things you that does explain some things you that does explain some things you because she felt the energy she felt the because she felt the energy she felt the because she felt the energy she felt the libido she felt the life changes you libido she felt the life changes you libido she felt the life changes you know the um the the characteristic know the um the the characteristic know the um the the characteristic uh sensations of that higher level of uh sensations of that higher level of uh sensations of that higher level of testosterone was a remarkable case yeah testosterone was a remarkable case yeah testosterone was a remarkable case yeah and anything that is going to give you and anything that is going to give you and anything that is going to give you that libido bump is going to make life a that libido bump is going to make life a that libido bump is going to make life a little bit more enjoyable. little bit more enjoyable. little bit more enjoyable. Good proxy that. Yeah. Good proxy that. Yeah. Good proxy that. Yeah. This has been tested, believe it or not, This has been tested, believe it or not, This has been tested, believe it or not, by the Czech army. So, this is, you by the Czech army. So, this is, you by the Czech army. So, this is, you know, in in the Republic of Cetchia. I know, in in the Republic of Cetchia. I know, in in the Republic of Cetchia. I don't even know how to pronounce it,

58:00don't even know how to pronounce it, don't even know how to pronounce it, Nick. Uh cuz I'm a child of the 70s, you Nick. Uh cuz I'm a child of the 70s, you Nick. Uh cuz I'm a child of the 70s, you know, but the Czech army, they took know, but the Czech army, they took know, but the Czech army, they took these soldiers, men and women, and they these soldiers, men and women, and they these soldiers, men and women, and they started doing winter swimming. So started doing winter swimming. So started doing winter swimming. So they're going into the river, and they they're going into the river, and they they're going into the river, and they did this 8week study, and it was quality did this 8week study, and it was quality did this 8week study, and it was quality of life type questionnaire things. They of life type questionnaire things. They of life type questionnaire things. They didn't actually I don't think they didn't actually I don't think they didn't actually I don't think they measured measured measured testosterone. The soldiers all reported testosterone. The soldiers all reported testosterone. The soldiers all reported an increase in overall quality of life. an increase in overall quality of life. an increase in overall quality of life. And what really stood out was an And what really stood out was an And what really stood out was an increase in sexual satisfaction. So this increase in sexual satisfaction. So this increase in sexual satisfaction. So this gets to be, you know, a little racy uh gets to be, you know, a little racy uh gets to be, you know, a little racy uh result here, but it directly corresponds result here, but it directly corresponds result here, but it directly corresponds to what we're talking about. When the to what we're talking about. When the to what we're talking about. When the study was over, the soldiers were like, study was over, the soldiers were like, study was over, the soldiers were like, well, hang on a second. Um, can't we well, hang on a second. Um, can't we well, hang on a second. Um, can't we keep doing this? You know, can't we keep keep doing this? You know, can't we keep keep doing this? You know, can't we keep going? And 80% of them continued the going? And 80% of them continued the going? And 80% of them continued the practice even after the conclusion of practice even after the conclusion of practice even after the conclusion of the study. So, we're starting to get the study. So, we're starting to get the study. So, we're starting to get some good data on this. Yeah. How some good data on this. Yeah. How some good data on this. Yeah. How important is the heat with the cold to

59:00important is the heat with the cold to important is the heat with the cold to make for all of these physical health make for all of these physical health make for all of these physical health benefits? I'm so glad you're asking benefits? I'm so glad you're asking benefits? I'm so glad you're asking because right now there is um sort of a because right now there is um sort of a because right now there is um sort of a social media wave uh that is promoting social media wave uh that is promoting social media wave uh that is promoting sona use. And I think sona is great. I sona use. And I think sona is great. I sona use. And I think sona is great. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. If I want a live in Phoenix, Arizona. If I want a live in Phoenix, Arizona. If I want a sauna, I park my car in the sun, you sauna, I park my car in the sun, you sauna, I park my car in the sun, you know, and by the time I get in there, know, and by the time I get in there, know, and by the time I get in there, it's like 180 degrees. So, I've always it's like 180 degrees. So, I've always it's like 180 degrees. So, I've always taken the heat for granted. Uh because taken the heat for granted. Uh because taken the heat for granted. Uh because it's so a if I'm going to walk to class it's so a if I'm going to walk to class it's so a if I'm going to walk to class on campus and it's 110° out, I feel like on campus and it's 110° out, I feel like on campus and it's 110° out, I feel like I'm getting some heat I'm getting some heat I'm getting some heat exposure. But the social media movement exposure. But the social media movement exposure. But the social media movement about the health benefits of sauna in about the health benefits of sauna in about the health benefits of sauna in the US is a little bit misguided. they the US is a little bit misguided. they the US is a little bit misguided. they will cite these Finnish studies. So guys will cite these Finnish studies. So guys will cite these Finnish studies. So guys like Lanin, you know, they're fun names like Lanin, you know, they're fun names like Lanin, you know, they're fun names to say, but I can't even pronounce them to say, but I can't even pronounce them to say, but I can't even pronounce them right, but they're the University of Ulu

1:00right, but they're the University of Ulu right, but they're the University of Ulu or TU or something like this. And they or TU or something like this. And they or TU or something like this. And they do these epidemiological studies of the do these epidemiological studies of the do these epidemiological studies of the Finnish population, and they say those Finnish population, and they say those Finnish population, and they say those who sauna twice a week have I'm going to who sauna twice a week have I'm going to who sauna twice a week have I'm going to make this up, but you know, 45% reduced make this up, but you know, 45% reduced make this up, but you know, 45% reduced all cause mortality. And it comes to the all cause mortality. And it comes to the all cause mortality. And it comes to the US and people say, I I should sauna. US and people say, I I should sauna. US and people say, I I should sauna. What they forget is that in Finland they What they forget is that in Finland they What they forget is that in Finland they take the cold for granted. There is no take the cold for granted. There is no take the cold for granted. There is no such thing as a Finnish population that such thing as a Finnish population that such thing as a Finnish population that is doing sona without also getting cold is doing sona without also getting cold is doing sona without also getting cold exposure. And when you read, you know, exposure. And when you read, you know, exposure. And when you read, you know, Linan's papers, he says, and by sona, we Linan's papers, he says, and by sona, we Linan's papers, he says, and by sona, we mean hot and cold going, they mean mean hot and cold going, they mean mean hot and cold going, they mean thermal contrast therapy. Sona is thermal contrast therapy. Sona is thermal contrast therapy. Sona is probably the only Finnish word that we probably the only Finnish word that we probably the only Finnish word that we use in English, you know, and we're use in English, you know, and we're use in English, you know, and we're using it wrong because on Twitter, using it wrong because on Twitter, using it wrong because on Twitter, people think it's the hot box. They people think it's the hot box. They people think it's the hot box. They forget that, you know, you also got to forget that, you know, you also got to forget that, you know, you also got to go roll in the snow or jump in the lake go roll in the snow or jump in the lake go roll in the snow or jump in the lake like you live in Finland if you really like you live in Finland if you really like you live in Finland if you really want to count on those benefits. Now, I

1:01want to count on those benefits. Now, I want to count on those benefits. Now, I happen to think if you're just doing happen to think if you're just doing happen to think if you're just doing heat, it's probably beneficial. You're heat, it's probably beneficial. You're heat, it's probably beneficial. You're probably getting some good circulatory probably getting some good circulatory probably getting some good circulatory benefits. is probably good hormetic benefits. is probably good hormetic benefits. is probably good hormetic stress, but you can't count on the data stress, but you can't count on the data stress, but you can't count on the data coming out of Finland if you're just coming out of Finland if you're just coming out of Finland if you're just doing the heat. So, you're asking how doing the heat. So, you're asking how doing the heat. So, you're asking how important is the heat? There's a really important is the heat? There's a really important is the heat? There's a really important distinction to make when important distinction to make when important distinction to make when you're going to do thermal contrast you're going to do thermal contrast you're going to do thermal contrast therapy and you're doing I'm going to do therapy and you're doing I'm going to do therapy and you're doing I'm going to do the ice bath here and then I want to do the ice bath here and then I want to do the ice bath here and then I want to do some heat. Don't use a hot tub. Hot tubs some heat. Don't use a hot tub. Hot tubs some heat. Don't use a hot tub. Hot tubs are great, but there is a phenomena are great, but there is a phenomena are great, but there is a phenomena called hydroiosis. called hydroiosis. called hydroiosis. Your skin knows when it's wet. You will Your skin knows when it's wet. You will Your skin knows when it's wet. You will not activate your sweat response. Open not activate your sweat response. Open not activate your sweat response. Open up your pores and start sweating when up your pores and start sweating when up your pores and start sweating when your skin is wet because that sweat your skin is wet because that sweat your skin is wet because that sweat cannot evaporate into the hot water. So, cannot evaporate into the hot water. So, cannot evaporate into the hot water. So, if you Google hydrois, Google's going to if you Google hydrois, Google's going to if you Google hydrois, Google's going to think you're, you know, it's a spelling think you're, you know, it's a spelling think you're, you know, it's a spelling error or something. It's an obscure error or something. It's an obscure error or something. It's an obscure term, but there's some good papers on

1:02term, but there's some good papers on term, but there's some good papers on it. In the cold bath, you do vasoc it. In the cold bath, you do vasoc it. In the cold bath, you do vasoc constriction as a mechanism of thermal constriction as a mechanism of thermal constriction as a mechanism of thermal regulation. If you go into the hot tub, regulation. If you go into the hot tub, regulation. If you go into the hot tub, you will sweat from your head or your you will sweat from your head or your you will sweat from your head or your shoulders or whatever is not in the shoulders or whatever is not in the shoulders or whatever is not in the water. But everything that is in the water. But everything that is in the water. But everything that is in the water will also be vasoc constriction. water will also be vasoc constriction. water will also be vasoc constriction. And that is to defend yourself against And that is to defend yourself against And that is to defend yourself against the warm water, the hot water without the warm water, the hot water without the warm water, the hot water without sweating. If you go into the dry sauna sweating. If you go into the dry sauna sweating. If you go into the dry sauna totally different because your body will totally different because your body will totally different because your body will sweat your pores will open up your veins sweat your pores will open up your veins sweat your pores will open up your veins sorry your blood vessels will dilate so sorry your blood vessels will dilate so sorry your blood vessels will dilate so ice bath vasoc constriction you don't ice bath vasoc constriction you don't ice bath vasoc constriction you don't want the veins to open up right the uh want the veins to open up right the uh want the veins to open up right the uh the dry sauna the traditional finished the dry sauna the traditional finished the dry sauna the traditional finished sona vaso dilation and this is how you sona vaso dilation and this is how you sona vaso dilation and this is how you get the workout for your smooth muscle get the workout for your smooth muscle get the workout for your smooth muscle tissue where first they constrict then tissue where first they constrict then tissue where first they constrict then they dilate Uh Mark Cohen, uh PhD MD they dilate Uh Mark Cohen, uh PhD MD they dilate Uh Mark Cohen, uh PhD MD from Australia. He says doing thermal

1:03from Australia. He says doing thermal from Australia. He says doing thermal contrast therapy is like bicep curls for contrast therapy is like bicep curls for contrast therapy is like bicep curls for your blood vessels. It's a good analogy. your blood vessels. It's a good analogy. your blood vessels. It's a good analogy. This is how you're going to exercise the This is how you're going to exercise the This is how you're going to exercise the smooth muscle tissue. I think it's smooth muscle tissue. I think it's smooth muscle tissue. I think it's wicked important. But again, I live in wicked important. But again, I live in wicked important. But again, I live in Phoenix where I take the heat for Phoenix where I take the heat for Phoenix where I take the heat for granted. We finally got a sona at granted. We finally got a sona at granted. We finally got a sona at Morosco at our production studio. So now Morosco at our production studio. So now Morosco at our production studio. So now even in the winter, I can get a little even in the winter, I can get a little even in the winter, I can get a little heat. our employees can get a little heat. our employees can get a little heat. our employees can get a little heat. It feels great. You know, heat. It feels great. You know, heat. It feels great. You know, something is happening. And now that something is happening. And now that something is happening. And now that we're going back and forth with thermal we're going back and forth with thermal we're going back and forth with thermal contrast, I feel like we can count on contrast, I feel like we can count on contrast, I feel like we can count on all those benefits that Lanin or I all those benefits that Lanin or I all those benefits that Lanin or I forget their names in Finland have forget their names in Finland have forget their names in Finland have documented. Gotcha. And what about the documented. Gotcha. And what about the documented. Gotcha. And what about the infrared sauna? I don't have infrared, infrared sauna? I don't have infrared, infrared sauna? I don't have infrared, but I bring up the hot cold contrast a but I bring up the hot cold contrast a but I bring up the hot cold contrast a lot on the show and inevitably there's a lot on the show and inevitably there's a lot on the show and inevitably there's a question about infrared sauna and I question about infrared sauna and I question about infrared sauna and I don't know much about it. So any any don't know much about it. So any any don't know much about it. So any any thoughts on that? It's not my area of

1:04thoughts on that? It's not my area of thoughts on that? It's not my area of expertise and partly the reason it's not expertise and partly the reason it's not expertise and partly the reason it's not my area of expertise is I have yet to my area of expertise is I have yet to my area of expertise is I have yet to see the paper that came out of Finland see the paper that came out of Finland see the paper that came out of Finland that said they were using infrared sona. that said they were using infrared sona. that said they were using infrared sona. There just there isn't anywhere near as There just there isn't anywhere near as There just there isn't anywhere near as much data. Now there's a lot of things much data. Now there's a lot of things much data. Now there's a lot of things though that are true about it. We do we though that are true about it. We do we though that are true about it. We do we sort of have an infrared deficit in the sort of have an infrared deficit in the sort of have an infrared deficit in the industrial world. And you might say it industrial world. And you might say it industrial world. And you might say it doesn't make any sense. Phoenix is the doesn't make any sense. Phoenix is the doesn't make any sense. Phoenix is the hottest, you know, it's the valley of hottest, you know, it's the valley of hottest, you know, it's the valley of the sun. It's the hottiest city in North the sun. It's the hottiest city in North the sun. It's the hottiest city in North America. How could people who live in America. How could people who live in America. How could people who live in Phoenix, Arizona possibly be light Phoenix, Arizona possibly be light Phoenix, Arizona possibly be light deficient? And the fact is it's so dang deficient? And the fact is it's so dang deficient? And the fact is it's so dang hot that they all stay inside during the hot that they all stay inside during the hot that they all stay inside during the summer. They don't get any UV. They summer. They don't get any UV. They summer. They don't get any UV. They don't get any infrared. are super don't get any infrared. are super don't get any infrared. are super efficient. You know, thermal glazed efficient. You know, thermal glazed efficient. You know, thermal glazed panes reject the um light that is in the panes reject the um light that is in the panes reject the um light that is in the infrared spectrum for energy efficiency infrared spectrum for energy efficiency infrared spectrum for energy efficiency inside your building. Your body needs inside your building. Your body needs inside your building. Your body needs infrared. Whether that's the fireplace infrared. Whether that's the fireplace infrared. Whether that's the fireplace or the wood stove or the lamp or the

1:05or the wood stove or the lamp or the or the wood stove or the lamp or the sun, your body is expecting infrared sun, your body is expecting infrared sun, your body is expecting infrared spectrum light. It feeds your spectrum light. It feeds your spectrum light. It feeds your mitochondria, which is not that sounds mitochondria, which is not that sounds mitochondria, which is not that sounds like a metaphor, and it is, but not like a metaphor, and it is, but not like a metaphor, and it is, but not exactly. You're you have chromophores exactly. You're you have chromophores exactly. You're you have chromophores all through your mitochondria that will all through your mitochondria that will all through your mitochondria that will absorb the energy of light and give the absorb the energy of light and give the absorb the energy of light and give the mitochondria a boost that isn't coming mitochondria a boost that isn't coming mitochondria a boost that isn't coming from lipids. It isn't coming from from lipids. It isn't coming from from lipids. It isn't coming from glucose. It's coming from the energy of glucose. It's coming from the energy of glucose. It's coming from the energy of the light. You need infrared. And if the the light. You need infrared. And if the the light. You need infrared. And if the sona can supply some, that's terrific. sona can supply some, that's terrific. sona can supply some, that's terrific. But I have sat in an infrared sauna for But I have sat in an infrared sauna for But I have sat in an infrared sauna for 45 freaking minutes trying to break a 45 freaking minutes trying to break a 45 freaking minutes trying to break a sweat at 145 degrees Fahrenheit when sweat at 145 degrees Fahrenheit when sweat at 145 degrees Fahrenheit when I've tried thermal and it just doesn't I've tried thermal and it just doesn't I've tried thermal and it just doesn't work. I get bored. I pick up my phone, work. I get bored. I pick up my phone, work. I get bored. I pick up my phone, you know, I'm going to scroll through you know, I'm going to scroll through you know, I'm going to scroll through Twitter and say some kind of Twitter and say some kind of Twitter and say some kind of inflammatory thing that's going to get inflammatory thing that's going to get inflammatory thing that's going to get me in trouble again. And then my phone me in trouble again. And then my phone me in trouble again. And then my phone says, "Oh, I'm overheated." And it shuts says, "Oh, I'm overheated." And it shuts says, "Oh, I'm overheated." And it shuts down long before the sweat starts down long before the sweat starts down long before the sweat starts dripping off my skin. infrared is just dripping off my skin. infrared is just dripping off my skin. infrared is just not hot enough to do thermal contrast

1:06not hot enough to do thermal contrast not hot enough to do thermal contrast with the cold. So, there's probably lots with the cold. So, there's probably lots with the cold. So, there's probably lots of benefits and I I don't want to of benefits and I I don't want to of benefits and I I don't want to discourage anybody. It just doesn't work discourage anybody. It just doesn't work discourage anybody. It just doesn't work for me. Okay, that makes sense. for me. Okay, that makes sense. for me. Okay, that makes sense. And your company, let's make sure to get And your company, let's make sure to get And your company, let's make sure to get all the info. If somebody wants to check all the info. If somebody wants to check all the info. If somebody wants to check out your cold plunges, where do they go out your cold plunges, where do they go out your cold plunges, where do they go to get that? Where do they find you on to get that? Where do they find you on to get that? Where do they find you on the socials? all that good information, the socials? all that good information, the socials? all that good information, they go to they go to they go to morascoforge.com. If you want to see morascoforge.com. If you want to see morascoforge.com. If you want to see what a $14,000 ice bath looks like, you what a $14,000 ice bath looks like, you what a $14,000 ice bath looks like, you go to morasco forge.com. If you want to go to morasco forge.com. If you want to go to morasco forge.com. If you want to see what a see what a see what a $250, you know, inflatable tub looks $250, you know, inflatable tub looks $250, you know, inflatable tub looks like, go to Home Depot or go to Costco like, go to Home Depot or go to Costco like, go to Home Depot or go to Costco or go to Amazon. We don't sell that. And or go to Amazon. We don't sell that. And or go to Amazon. We don't sell that. And we get a lot of crap for being so we get a lot of crap for being so we get a lot of crap for being so expensive. Right now, I don't know expensive. Right now, I don't know expensive. Right now, I don't know another way to do it. I will never put another way to do it. I will never put another way to do it. I will never put my customers in some soft plastic my customers in some soft plastic my customers in some soft plastic inflatable piece of crap that leeches inflatable piece of crap that leeches inflatable piece of crap that leeches phalates into the water. We have

1:07phalates into the water. We have phalates into the water. We have stainless steel tubs. We will never use stainless steel tubs. We will never use stainless steel tubs. We will never use chlorine. Well, let me rephrase. We use chlorine. Well, let me rephrase. We use chlorine. Well, let me rephrase. We use ozone so that you don't have to use ozone so that you don't have to use ozone so that you don't have to use chlorine. The tub is grounded, which chlorine. The tub is grounded, which chlorine. The tub is grounded, which means it puts you in electrical contact means it puts you in electrical contact means it puts you in electrical contact with the earth. And I know not everybody with the earth. And I know not everybody with the earth. And I know not everybody can afford it. Uh, I wish that I could can afford it. Uh, I wish that I could can afford it. Uh, I wish that I could make it less expensive, but for those make it less expensive, but for those make it less expensive, but for those people who are committed to a cold people who are committed to a cold people who are committed to a cold plunge practice, Moras Co- Forge is the plunge practice, Moras Co- Forge is the plunge practice, Moras Co- Forge is the right value proposition because you're right value proposition because you're right value proposition because you're getting a tub that's warrantied for getting a tub that's warrantied for getting a tub that's warrantied for Epsom salt. You're getting all of the Epsom salt. You're getting all of the Epsom salt. You're getting all of the the you're getting the 5-year warranty the you're getting the 5-year warranty the you're getting the 5-year warranty that comes with our Pro model. You're that comes with our Pro model. You're that comes with our Pro model. You're getting all the customer service. You getting all the customer service. You getting all the customer service. You can also get the science. So, if you're can also get the science. So, if you're can also get the science. So, if you're not in the market for a $14,000 ice not in the market for a $14,000 ice not in the market for a $14,000 ice bath, you can still go to bath, you can still go to bath, you can still go to moroscoforge.com, click on the science moroscoforge.com, click on the science moroscoforge.com, click on the science tab, and you can read everything that tab, and you can read everything that tab, and you can read everything that you know I've been talking about. I've you know I've been talking about. I've you know I've been talking about. I've written up and it's available for free written up and it's available for free written up and it's available for free on our website. If free doesn't work for on our website. If free doesn't work for on our website. If free doesn't work for you, maybe you need a hard copy. You can

1:08you, maybe you need a hard copy. You can you, maybe you need a hard copy. You can buy it. Like, it's not on Amazon, but buy it. Like, it's not on Amazon, but buy it. Like, it's not on Amazon, but it's on the Morosco Forge website. It's it's on the Morosco Forge website. It's it's on the Morosco Forge website. It's called uncommon cold and there's five called uncommon cold and there's five called uncommon cold and there's five 600 scientific footnotes in there that 600 scientific footnotes in there that 600 scientific footnotes in there that you know tie back to the literature you know tie back to the literature you know tie back to the literature because that's what I do. I gave Jay because that's what I do. I gave Jay because that's what I do. I gave Jay Bachara a copy because we became friends Bachara a copy because we became friends Bachara a copy because we became friends during these COVID lockdowns and he's in during these COVID lockdowns and he's in during these COVID lockdowns and he's in Phoenix and he's looking at my book Phoenix and he's looking at my book Phoenix and he's looking at my book which he's never going to read. He's which he's never going to read. He's which he's never going to read. He's going to go be, you know, NIH director going to go be, you know, NIH director going to go be, you know, NIH director and he's going to forget all about cold and he's going to forget all about cold and he's going to forget all about cold plunge therapy. But he was working on a plunge therapy. But he was working on a plunge therapy. But he was working on a book. So, we were comparing notes and he book. So, we were comparing notes and he book. So, we were comparing notes and he thumbs through and he's like, Tom, there thumbs through and he's like, Tom, there thumbs through and he's like, Tom, there are way too many footnotes in here. You are way too many footnotes in here. You are way too many footnotes in here. You know, I'm like, Jay, what were you know, I'm like, Jay, what were you know, I'm like, Jay, what were you expecting? It's not a popular book. It's expecting? It's not a popular book. It's expecting? It's not a popular book. It's a work of science. And so, I would send a work of science. And so, I would send a work of science. And so, I would send you a copy if you, you know, have any you a copy if you, you know, have any you a copy if you, you know, have any insomnia problems, Nick. It would insomnia problems, Nick. It would insomnia problems, Nick. It would probably put you straight to sleep. But probably put you straight to sleep. But probably put you straight to sleep. But you can find me on marscoge.com. You can you can find me on marscoge.com. You can you can find me on marscoge.com. You can find me on Instagram, s a ge tp. You can find me on Instagram, s a ge tp. You can find me on Instagram, s a ge tp. You can find me on Twitter. It's the same

1:09find me on Twitter. It's the same find me on Twitter. It's the same handle. If you want to, you know, read handle. If you want to, you know, read handle. If you want to, you know, read the stuff that gets me in trouble, uh, the stuff that gets me in trouble, uh, the stuff that gets me in trouble, uh, that's where it's going to be. that's where it's going to be. that's where it's going to be. Excellent. And closing thoughts for Excellent. And closing thoughts for Excellent. And closing thoughts for anybody that wants to try this, but anybody that wants to try this, but anybody that wants to try this, but maybe they're not quite ready to drop maybe they're not quite ready to drop maybe they're not quite ready to drop even for a mid-priced one, which is even for a mid-priced one, which is even for a mid-priced one, which is still still still $45,000. How do they get going to see if $45,000. How do they get going to see if $45,000. How do they get going to see if this is something for them? this is something for them? this is something for them? very first ice bath I ever took was in a very first ice bath I ever took was in a very first ice bath I ever took was in a stock tank. So, one of these galvanized, stock tank. So, one of these galvanized, stock tank. So, one of these galvanized, it's a zinc galvanized metal tank that it's a zinc galvanized metal tank that it's a zinc galvanized metal tank that they, you know, put out in the fields they, you know, put out in the fields they, you know, put out in the fields for the cows to drink out of. And for the cows to drink out of. And for the cows to drink out of. And sometimes it's called a stock tank. Um, sometimes it's called a stock tank. Um, sometimes it's called a stock tank. Um, fill that up with ice and water from the fill that up with ice and water from the fill that up with ice and water from the hose. And I had been doing cold showers hose. And I had been doing cold showers hose. And I had been doing cold showers and they suck. They make me angry. They and they suck. They make me angry. They and they suck. They make me angry. They activate the fight orflight sympathetic, activate the fight orflight sympathetic, activate the fight orflight sympathetic, but then you never get the dive reflex. but then you never get the dive reflex. but then you never get the dive reflex. You never get that meditative thing in a You never get that meditative thing in a You never get that meditative thing in a cold shower. And so a former student of cold shower. And so a former student of cold shower. And so a former student of mine said, "Well, have you ever tried an mine said, "Well, have you ever tried an mine said, "Well, have you ever tried an ice bath?" I'm like, "Okay, I'm game."

1:10ice bath?" I'm like, "Okay, I'm game." ice bath?" I'm like, "Okay, I'm game." Got in there completely different. So I Got in there completely different. So I Got in there completely different. So I had a great experience and me and my had a great experience and me and my had a great experience and me and my former student, we started going down, former student, we started going down, former student, we started going down, you know, to the Quickie Mart or you know, to the Quickie Mart or you know, to the Quickie Mart or whatever and buying 200 lb of ice and we whatever and buying 200 lb of ice and we whatever and buying 200 lb of ice and we bought a stock tank. We started in his bought a stock tank. We started in his bought a stock tank. We started in his backyard. The problem is that during the backyard. The problem is that during the backyard. The problem is that during the summer in Phoenix, you know, it's summer in Phoenix, you know, it's summer in Phoenix, you know, it's $114° and you just spent $75 on ice and $114° and you just spent $75 on ice and $114° and you just spent $75 on ice and it's melted 15 minutes later and it's we it's melted 15 minutes later and it's we it's melted 15 minutes later and it's we said we have to invent a machine to do said we have to invent a machine to do said we have to invent a machine to do this for us cuz we wanted to be able to this for us cuz we wanted to be able to this for us cuz we wanted to be able to do it more often. But it is a great way do it more often. But it is a great way do it more often. But it is a great way to start if you don't live in an area to start if you don't live in an area to start if you don't live in an area where you can get into the cold ocean or where you can get into the cold ocean or where you can get into the cold ocean or you can get into the cold lake or you you can get into the cold lake or you you can get into the cold lake or you can get into the cold stream. Those are can get into the cold stream. Those are can get into the cold stream. Those are the best ways to do there's some the best ways to do there's some the best ways to do there's some drowning things, but they're the best drowning things, but they're the best drowning things, but they're the best ways to to really get that hormetic cold ways to to really get that hormetic cold ways to to really get that hormetic cold stress response. Morasco is the next stress response. Morasco is the next stress response. Morasco is the next best thing to nature because I don't best thing to nature because I don't best thing to nature because I don't have that mountain stream. I live on the have that mountain stream. I live on the have that mountain stream. I live on the 32nd floor in Phoenix. I got to make a

1:1132nd floor in Phoenix. I got to make a 32nd floor in Phoenix. I got to make a machine, put it up on my balcony, and machine, put it up on my balcony, and machine, put it up on my balcony, and now I can get a little bit of cold every now I can get a little bit of cold every now I can get a little bit of cold every day. We are probably the brand for the day. We are probably the brand for the day. We are probably the brand for the most committed of people. the people who most committed of people. the people who most committed of people. the people who were like, I want to be able to do it were like, I want to be able to do it were like, I want to be able to do it without thinking about it, without without thinking about it, without without thinking about it, without having to drive, without having to having to drive, without having to having to drive, without having to prepare. I want to just be able to get prepare. I want to just be able to get prepare. I want to just be able to get in. If all I want to do is a minute, in. If all I want to do is a minute, in. If all I want to do is a minute, then fine, I'll do a minute. If I want then fine, I'll do a minute. If I want then fine, I'll do a minute. If I want to do 10 minutes, I want to be able to to do 10 minutes, I want to be able to to do 10 minutes, I want to be able to do that, too. So, in a way, Nick, we do that, too. So, in a way, Nick, we do that, too. So, in a way, Nick, we sell convenience, not really, you know, sell convenience, not really, you know, sell convenience, not really, you know, steel and wood and things like that. steel and wood and things like that. steel and wood and things like that. Okay. Well, thank you. It's been uh a Okay. Well, thank you. It's been uh a Okay. Well, thank you. It's been uh a pleasure. Educational. Uh, I've learned pleasure. Educational. Uh, I've learned pleasure. Educational. Uh, I've learned a lot today and uh, it was really a lot today and uh, it was really a lot today and uh, it was really interesting to to meet you. Yeah. Uh, interesting to to meet you. Yeah. Uh, interesting to to meet you. Yeah. Uh, thanks. Thanks for letting me talk as thanks. Thanks for letting me talk as thanks. Thanks for letting me talk as much as I do. You can probably tell the much as I do. You can probably tell the much as I do. You can probably tell the semester is over. You know, I haven't semester is over. You know, I haven't semester is over. You know, I haven't had a class in a week and I'm like got had a class in a week and I'm like got had a class in a week and I'm like got all these things that I got to say. And all these things that I got to say. And all these things that I got to say. And you've been a great host. you've been a great host. you've been a great host. Okay, everybody. Until next time, ask

The Cold Truth Ice Baths Brown Fat and Professor Seager