The Transformative Power of Contrast Therapy: Unlocking Health and Performance - Full Transcript

00:00ladies and gentlemen boys and girls cold ladies and gentlemen boys and girls cold exposure cold thermogenesis ice exposure cold thermogenesis ice exposure cold thermogenesis ice plunges cold showers all of these things plunges cold showers all of these things plunges cold showers all of these things are all the rage right now in the are all the rage right now in the are all the rage right now in the recovery and biohacking world so I went recovery and biohacking world so I went recovery and biohacking world so I went to the lady who has literally made it to the lady who has literally made it to the lady who has literally made it her profession Dr Susanna soberg is the her profession Dr Susanna soberg is the her profession Dr Susanna soberg is the founder of The soberg Institute and the founder of The soberg Institute and the founder of The soberg Institute and the thermal uh cure she is the world's thermal uh cure she is the world's thermal uh cure she is the world's leading international scientist on cold leading international scientist on cold leading international scientist on cold exposure and ultimately heat therapy as exposure and ultimately heat therapy as exposure and ultimately heat therapy as well and their influence on stress well and their influence on stress well and their influence on stress health and Optimal Performance and she's health and Optimal Performance and she's health and Optimal Performance and she's going to give us all the latest research going to give us all the latest research going to give us all the latest research today and allow us to ultimately sift today and allow us to ultimately sift today and allow us to ultimately sift through the information that

01:00through the information that through the information that misinformation and the noise to get down misinformation and the noise to get down misinformation and the noise to get down to what truly matters and ultimately how to what truly matters and ultimately how to what truly matters and ultimately how we can make the most of this truly we can make the most of this truly we can make the most of this truly remarkable and often life-changing remarkable and often life-changing remarkable and often life-changing modality and that's that term is used a modality and that's that term is used a modality and that's that term is used a lot but for a lot of people that I lot but for a lot of people that I lot but for a lot of people that I interact with on a weekly basis cold interact with on a weekly basis cold interact with on a weekly basis cold thermogenesis ultimately saw us as well thermogenesis ultimately saw us as well thermogenesis ultimately saw us as well is nothing short of a life-changing is nothing short of a life-changing is nothing short of a life-changing modality and I think there's a lot of modality and I think there's a lot of modality and I think there's a lot of people out there who think they know people out there who think they know people out there who think they know what they're talking about there's a lot what they're talking about there's a lot what they're talking about there's a lot of people out there who spout of people out there who spout of people out there who spout misinformation so I wanted to right to misinformation so I wanted to right to misinformation so I wanted to right to the lady who has actually spent the last the lady who has actually spent the last the lady who has actually spent the last number of years getting to the bottom of number of years getting to the bottom of number of years getting to the bottom of the research so since 2016 Susanna has the research so since 2016 Susanna has the research so since 2016 Susanna has dedicated her life to research to the dedicated her life to research to the dedicated her life to research to the effect of cold and heat exposure on effect of cold and heat exposure on effect of cold and heat exposure on human health her interest continue to human health her interest continue to human health her interest continue to focus on the connection between our focus on the connection between our focus on the connection between our physical and mental health and how those physical and mental health and how those physical and mental health and how those ultimately can be impacted by cold and ultimately can be impacted by cold and ultimately can be impacted by cold and heat exposure she has ultimately uh an heat exposure she has ultimately uh an heat exposure she has ultimately uh an incredible depth of scientific research incredible depth of scientific research incredible depth of scientific research and experience uh in all of the areas

02:00and experience uh in all of the areas and experience uh in all of the areas with regard to human with regard to human with regard to human optimization uh cold Health's impact on optimization uh cold Health's impact on optimization uh cold Health's impact on the cardiovascular system insulin the cardiovascular system insulin the cardiovascular system insulin sensitivity mental health mental balance sensitivity mental health mental balance sensitivity mental health mental balance the connection between brown fat what the connection between brown fat what the connection between brown fat what brown fat actually is and brown fat and brown fat actually is and brown fat and brown fat actually is and brown fat and its effect on metabolic Health how its effect on metabolic Health how its effect on metabolic Health how infrared saas can improve skin and infrared saas can improve skin and infrared saas can improve skin and disease um pain can improve muscular disease um pain can improve muscular disease um pain can improve muscular Health joint pain and so many more Health joint pain and so many more Health joint pain and so many more things I really love this conversation things I really love this conversation things I really love this conversation with Dr Susanna soberg you may have with Dr Susanna soberg you may have with Dr Susanna soberg you may have heard her in the past on places like the heard her in the past on places like the heard her in the past on places like the hberman Lab podcast where he Dr Andrew hberman Lab podcast where he Dr Andrew hberman Lab podcast where he Dr Andrew hman dives into all things related to C hman dives into all things related to C hman dives into all things related to C Health we also discuss um infrared sauna Health we also discuss um infrared sauna Health we also discuss um infrared sauna protocols we discuss contrast therapy protocols we discuss contrast therapy protocols we discuss contrast therapy hot and cold back and forth and get into hot and cold back and forth and get into hot and cold back and forth and get into some really useful protocols that some really useful protocols that some really useful protocols that Susanna has substantiated to optimize Susanna has substantiated to optimize Susanna has substantiated to optimize hot and cold um and so much more right hot and cold um and so much more right hot and cold um and so much more right before before we get into this podcast I

03:00before before we get into this podcast I before before we get into this podcast I want to bring you a special note from want to bring you a special note from want to bring you a special note from our sponsor for today you may train like our sponsor for today you may train like our sponsor for today you may train like a pro-athlete you may eat like a pro a pro-athlete you may eat like a pro a pro-athlete you may eat like a pro athlete but are you recovering like a athlete but are you recovering like a athlete but are you recovering like a pro athlete pro sports teams have entire pro athlete pro sports teams have entire pro athlete pro sports teams have entire teams dedicated to telling their teams dedicated to telling their teams dedicated to telling their athletes precisely how to act how to athletes precisely how to act how to athletes precisely how to act how to train how to perform and how to recover train how to perform and how to recover train how to perform and how to recover and now you can access the same and now you can access the same and now you can access the same information that they're using to information that they're using to information that they're using to ultimately integrate all of your ultimately integrate all of your ultimately integrate all of your wearable data our friends over our A7 wearable data our friends over our A7 wearable data our friends over our A7 are giving you a killer deal to try out are giving you a killer deal to try out are giving you a killer deal to try out A7 this incredible platform integrates A7 this incredible platform integrates A7 this incredible platform integrates all your wearable data and gives you all your wearable data and gives you all your wearable data and gives you usable information that ultimately allow usable information that ultimately allow usable information that ultimately allow you to make great decisions on how to you to make great decisions on how to you to make great decisions on how to most effectively train how to most most effectively train how to most most effectively train how to most effectively recover there's so much effectively recover there's so much effectively recover there's so much information out there I personally use a information out there I personally use a information out there I personally use a Garmin I personally use an aura I'm Garmin I personally use an aura I'm Garmin I personally use an aura I'm actually picking up an Apple Watch actually picking up an Apple Watch actually picking up an Apple Watch because I've been recently made aware because I've been recently made aware because I've been recently made aware that it is actually the most accurate that it is actually the most accurate that it is actually the most accurate modality for measuring and I'm using modality for measuring and I'm using modality for measuring and I'm using that information in my A7 uh platform to that information in my A7 uh platform to that information in my A7 uh platform to ultimately help me make more accurate ultimately help me make more accurate ultimately help me make more accurate decisions A7 is the brainchild of a

04:00decisions A7 is the brainchild of a decisions A7 is the brainchild of a previous guest Dr Eric Corum and his previous guest Dr Eric Corum and his previous guest Dr Eric Corum and his team of PhD Sports scientists they built team of PhD Sports scientists they built team of PhD Sports scientists they built this unique performance system tailored this unique performance system tailored this unique performance system tailored to your unique physiology that perfectly to your unique physiology that perfectly to your unique physiology that perfectly pairs with any training plan and pairs with any training plan and pairs with any training plan and ultimately shows you how to improve your ultimately shows you how to improve your ultimately shows you how to improve your sleep how to be more motivated how to sleep how to be more motivated how to sleep how to be more motivated how to get more energy ultimately how to have get more energy ultimately how to have get more energy ultimately how to have less stress and you can try A7 for the less stress and you can try A7 for the less stress and you can try A7 for the rest of the year for one single dollar rest of the year for one single dollar rest of the year for one single dollar very low investment to you for high very low investment to you for high very low investment to you for high potential upside head over to the the potential upside head over to the the potential upside head over to the the App Store download A7 and you can also App Store download A7 and you can also App Store download A7 and you can also get it on their website if you use the get it on their website if you use the get it on their website if you use the code muscle aim 7 again that's m u CLE e code muscle aim 7 again that's m u CLE e code muscle aim 7 again that's m u CLE e k i m number seven uh and this is just k i m number seven uh and this is just k i m number seven uh and this is just for the musle intelligence Community Dr Susanna soberg the world Community Dr Susanna soberg the world Authority on thermogenesis hot and cold Authority on thermogenesis hot and cold Authority on thermogenesis hot and cold exposure uh thank you very much for exposure uh thank you very much for exposure uh thank you very much for making the time to join me today hey

05:00making the time to join me today hey making the time to join me today hey thank you so much for inviting me I'm so thank you so much for inviting me I'm so thank you so much for inviting me I'm so excited to talk to you today you have an excited to talk to you today you have an excited to talk to you today you have an incredible wealth of knowledge that the incredible wealth of knowledge that the incredible wealth of knowledge that the world is seeking right now as I think world is seeking right now as I think world is seeking right now as I think you're very well aware there's so many you're very well aware there's so many you're very well aware there's so many people out there who are very interested people out there who are very interested people out there who are very interested in in cold thermogenesis Sonic exposure in in cold thermogenesis Sonic exposure in in cold thermogenesis Sonic exposure heat chalk proteines and so who better heat chalk proteines and so who better heat chalk proteines and so who better than uh yourself to come on and teach than uh yourself to come on and teach than uh yourself to come on and teach the world true protocols and ultimately the world true protocols and ultimately the world true protocols and ultimately how to sift through all the information how to sift through all the information how to sift through all the information and put potentially misinformation so and put potentially misinformation so and put potentially misinformation so I'd love to may have you start and talk I'd love to may have you start and talk I'd love to may have you start and talk to us about U maybe how you got your to us about U maybe how you got your to us about U maybe how you got your start in uh not even the hot and cold start in uh not even the hot and cold start in uh not even the hot and cold world but maybe like what your studies world but maybe like what your studies world but maybe like what your studies were in University and and Beyond yes so were in University and and Beyond yes so were in University and and Beyond yes so how I get started with this well it was how I get started with this well it was how I get started with this well it was kind of it came out of always out of a kind of it came out of always out of a kind of it came out of always out of a curiosity right it's the question where curiosity right it's the question where curiosity right it's the question where you ask yourself what is actually going you ask yourself what is actually going you ask yourself what is actually going wrong and at the time where I asked this wrong and at the time where I asked this wrong and at the time where I asked this question a lot was uh while I was question a lot was uh while I was question a lot was uh while I was working at the hospital and I had a lot working at the hospital and I had a lot working at the hospital and I had a lot of patients coming in and we operated of patients coming in and we operated of patients coming in and we operated and stuff like that and we had so many

06:00and stuff like that and we had so many and stuff like that and we had so many people suffering and I think I can speak people suffering and I think I can speak people suffering and I think I can speak for me and a lot of my colleagues back for me and a lot of my colleagues back for me and a lot of my colleagues back then that we went home and we were not then that we went home and we were not then that we went home and we were not really satisfied about what our job really satisfied about what our job really satisfied about what our job because it's hard seeing people suffer because it's hard seeing people suffer because it's hard seeing people suffer so what I did is I kept studying I kept so what I did is I kept studying I kept so what I did is I kept studying I kept studying even though I was just working studying even though I was just working studying even though I was just working so I wanted to figure out well why are so I wanted to figure out well why are so I wanted to figure out well why are people unhealthy why are people coming people unhealthy why are people coming people unhealthy why are people coming with these diseases and to boil that with these diseases and to boil that with these diseases and to boil that down to the result of that was type 2 down to the result of that was type 2 down to the result of that was type 2 diabetes obesity and inflammation so I diabetes obesity and inflammation so I diabetes obesity and inflammation so I was very curious about how can people was very curious about how can people was very curious about how can people stay healthy instead of like me seeing stay healthy instead of like me seeing stay healthy instead of like me seeing people being sick at the hospital how people being sick at the hospital how people being sick at the hospital how could we go out and prevent this and is could we go out and prevent this and is could we go out and prevent this and is it possible what could we do about it it possible what could we do about it it possible what could we do about it and something like uh having a sweet and something like uh having a sweet and something like uh having a sweet tooth and snacking and stuff like that tooth and snacking and stuff like that tooth and snacking and stuff like that that was definitely something I was very that was definitely something I was very that was definitely something I was very curious around uh because that is a curious around uh because that is a curious around uh because that is a direct way to um increasing your risk of direct way to um increasing your risk of direct way to um increasing your risk of type 2 diabetes that was my first

07:00type 2 diabetes that was my first type 2 diabetes that was my first complete whole study which was published complete whole study which was published complete whole study which was published in cell metabolism in in cell metabolism in in cell metabolism in 2017 that was my master thesis you can 2017 that was my master thesis you can 2017 that was my master thesis you can say and right after that I wanted to so say and right after that I wanted to so say and right after that I wanted to so yeah so actually I'll let you keep going yeah so actually I'll let you keep going yeah so actually I'll let you keep going but I really want to dig into that but I really want to dig into that but I really want to dig into that because I think that's incredibly uh because I think that's incredibly uh because I think that's incredibly uh thoughtful or incredibly useful piece of thoughtful or incredibly useful piece of thoughtful or incredibly useful piece of information so we'll come back next okay information so we'll come back next okay information so we'll come back next okay so well I just wanted to dig even deeper so well I just wanted to dig even deeper so well I just wanted to dig even deeper into the basic science but just keep it into the basic science but just keep it into the basic science but just keep it in human still because that's kind of my in human still because that's kind of my in human still because that's kind of my speciality you can say I don't do speciality you can say I don't do speciality you can say I don't do research in mice and rodents so and I research in mice and rodents so and I research in mice and rodents so and I didn't want to start that so I was just didn't want to start that so I was just didn't want to start that so I was just I just kept my focus on human studies so I just kept my focus on human studies so I just kept my focus on human studies so my master thesis was in humans and I did my master thesis was in humans and I did my master thesis was in humans and I did the same ER in my PhD but switched the same ER in my PhD but switched the same ER in my PhD but switched completely to something called Brown fat completely to something called Brown fat completely to something called Brown fat research because that was hot and wild research because that was hot and wild research because that was hot and wild at that time you could say it was at that time you could say it was at that time you could say it was something completely new discover something completely new discover something completely new discover Discovery around year 2000 and up to

08:00Discovery around year 2000 and up to Discovery around year 2000 and up to 2013 this was discovered as the new way 2013 this was discovered as the new way 2013 this was discovered as the new way to prevent obesity and type two diabetes to prevent obesity and type two diabetes to prevent obesity and type two diabetes if we could increase this mystical if we could increase this mystical if we could increase this mystical tissue or organ in the body and who knew tissue or organ in the body and who knew tissue or organ in the body and who knew what that was because when I was asked what that was because when I was asked what that was because when I was asked do you want to research this I was like do you want to research this I was like do you want to research this I was like I don't even know what it is I know I don't even know what it is I know I don't even know what it is I know about white fat but I never heard about about white fat but I never heard about about white fat but I never heard about Brown fat so I found it a bit Brown fat so I found it a bit Brown fat so I found it a bit fascinating when I when I fascinating when I when I fascinating when I when I realized I read a bit about it of course realized I read a bit about it of course realized I read a bit about it of course when I realized that white fat is when I realized that white fat is when I realized that white fat is actually our um you can say the kind of actually our um you can say the kind of actually our um you can say the kind of fat that stores our energy and what we fat that stores our energy and what we fat that stores our energy and what we want to get rid of right that is the want to get rid of right that is the want to get rid of right that is the white fat on our bellies and thighs and white fat on our bellies and thighs and white fat on our bellies and thighs and we want to get rid of that so that we want to get rid of that so that we want to get rid of that so that stores energy and the brown fat does the stores energy and the brown fat does the stores energy and the brown fat does the opposite that uses the energy increases opposite that uses the energy increases opposite that uses the energy increases our energy expenditure in the body so our energy expenditure in the body so our energy expenditure in the body so these two kind of tissues which is these two kind of tissues which is these two kind of tissues which is they're both fat types but they were

09:00they're both fat types but they were they're both fat types but they were completely opposite so if we can completely opposite so if we can completely opposite so if we can increase the activity of the brown fat increase the activity of the brown fat increase the activity of the brown fat then that could eat away some of the then that could eat away some of the then that could eat away some of the white fat and I found that just so white fat and I found that just so white fat and I found that just so fascinating but it became even more fascinating but it became even more fascinating but it became even more fascinating when I could see in the fascinating when I could see in the fascinating when I could see in the litor that the one thing that is most litor that the one thing that is most litor that the one thing that is most potent to activate the brown fed our non potent to activate the brown fed our non potent to activate the brown fed our non shivering thermogenesis is also called shivering thermogenesis is also called shivering thermogenesis is also called that was cold cold temperatures that was cold cold temperatures that was cold cold temperatures so it was not even we don't even have a so it was not even we don't even have a so it was not even we don't even have a drug to activate the brown fat yet that drug to activate the brown fat yet that drug to activate the brown fat yet that we can give to people but what is most we can give to people but what is most we can give to people but what is most potent and why we actually have the potent and why we actually have the potent and why we actually have the brown fat is because when we get cold it brown fat is because when we get cold it brown fat is because when we get cold it increases the heat the the heat in the increases the heat the the heat in the increases the heat the the heat in the body so we can keep ourselves warm so body so we can keep ourselves warm so body so we can keep ourselves warm so it's very important that we have this it's very important that we have this it's very important that we have this tissue so the Curiosity around the brown tissue so the Curiosity around the brown tissue so the Curiosity around the brown fed it was kind of like this stepwise fed it was kind of like this stepwise fed it was kind of like this stepwise questioning all the way so what can we questioning all the way so what can we questioning all the way so what can we do with that how can we use it in humans do with that how can we use it in humans do with that how can we use it in humans how can we make this beneficial for us

10:00how can we make this beneficial for us how can we make this beneficial for us and very quickly it came to the question and very quickly it came to the question and very quickly it came to the question what about winter swimmers do they have what about winter swimmers do they have what about winter swimmers do they have a lot of brown fat then do they have a a lot of brown fat then do they have a a lot of brown fat then do they have a lot of activity in it do they have lot of activity in it do they have lot of activity in it do they have increased metabolic rate or something increased metabolic rate or something increased metabolic rate or something like that so interesting so what what like that so interesting so what what like that so interesting so what what I'm hearing is maybe a good way for the I'm hearing is maybe a good way for the I'm hearing is maybe a good way for the audience to frame it is that brown fat audience to frame it is that brown fat audience to frame it is that brown fat is metabolically active it means it's is metabolically active it means it's is metabolically active it means it's it's actually consuming energy in order it's actually consuming energy in order it's actually consuming energy in order to burn it rather than then the white to burn it rather than then the white to burn it rather than then the white fat is metabolically dormant where it's fat is metabolically dormant where it's fat is metabolically dormant where it's it's more of a storage Reserve I think it's more of a storage Reserve I think it's more of a storage Reserve I think that's super useful could you walk us that's super useful could you walk us that's super useful could you walk us through mechanistically um what's through mechanistically um what's through mechanistically um what's happening there so um you know why would happening there so um you know why would happening there so um you know why would how how do we turn on Brown fat you said how how do we turn on Brown fat you said how how do we turn on Brown fat you said you know we expose ourself to cold and you know we expose ourself to cold and you know we expose ourself to cold and the body you know converts maybe or the body you know converts maybe or the body you know converts maybe or produces more of this B this brown fat produces more of this B this brown fat produces more of this B this brown fat left to just have you walk us through left to just have you walk us through left to just have you walk us through mechanistically you know is that the mechanistically you know is that the mechanistically you know is that the adrenaline that's causing is the heat adrenaline that's causing is the heat adrenaline that's causing is the heat chog proteins is it a Cascade of things chog proteins is it a Cascade of things chog proteins is it a Cascade of things do we know mechanistically what's do we know mechanistically what's do we know mechanistically what's actually causing the creation or this actually causing the creation or this actually causing the creation or this transfer into new Brown fat cells aha transfer into new Brown fat cells aha transfer into new Brown fat cells aha okay so I think you asked me actually okay so I think you asked me actually okay so I think you asked me actually three questions so I'm please help me if

11:00three questions so I'm please help me if three questions so I'm please help me if I forget two of them I'm just going to I forget two of them I'm just going to I forget two of them I'm just going to start by how do we activate the brown start by how do we activate the brown start by how do we activate the brown fat so the the whole past way of that fat so the the whole past way of that fat so the the whole past way of that and I'm not saying that we know all the and I'm not saying that we know all the and I'm not saying that we know all the pathways yet but we do know some of them pathways yet but we do know some of them pathways yet but we do know some of them which makes sense I think so we have which makes sense I think so we have which makes sense I think so we have something called the cold receptors in something called the cold receptors in something called the cold receptors in our skin and that's a good thing because our skin and that's a good thing because our skin and that's a good thing because when we then get cold on the skin when we then get cold on the skin when we then get cold on the skin quickly these receptors will through our quickly these receptors will through our quickly these receptors will through our peripheral and nerve endings will send a peripheral and nerve endings will send a peripheral and nerve endings will send a signal to the brain up in hypothalamus signal to the brain up in hypothalamus signal to the brain up in hypothalamus where we have the temperature regulating where we have the temperature regulating where we have the temperature regulating Center and here this the the brain will Center and here this the the brain will Center and here this the the brain will sense oh and get the message it is cold sense oh and get the message it is cold sense oh and get the message it is cold compared to what you just were and compared to what you just were and compared to what you just were and because of that it would increase because of that it would increase because of that it would increase neurotransmitter and hormone called neurotransmitter and hormone called neurotransmitter and hormone called noradrenaline and no adrenaline is the noradrenaline and no adrenaline is the noradrenaline and no adrenaline is the one thing that activates the brown fat one thing that activates the brown fat one thing that activates the brown fat so on the surface of our Brown fat cells so on the surface of our Brown fat cells so on the surface of our Brown fat cells there are these small um uh receptors there are these small um uh receptors there are these small um uh receptors who can take the who can sense the the

12:00who can take the who can sense the the who can take the who can sense the the nor adrenaline and as soon as they nor adrenaline and as soon as they nor adrenaline and as soon as they connect you have an activation of the connect you have an activation of the connect you have an activation of the brown fat cell and uh what happens is brown fat cell and uh what happens is brown fat cell and uh what happens is that with the small mitochondria so that that with the small mitochondria so that that with the small mitochondria so that is the energy Fabrics in the cell they is the energy Fabrics in the cell they is the energy Fabrics in the cell they get activated from this nor adrenaline get activated from this nor adrenaline get activated from this nor adrenaline it will use the fatty acid the fatty it will use the fatty acid the fatty it will use the fatty acid the fatty acids the small droplets inside the acids the small droplets inside the acids the small droplets inside the brown fat cells because there's a little brown fat cells because there's a little brown fat cells because there's a little bit of a storage in there bit of a storage in there bit of a storage in there of free fatty acids but that's quickly of free fatty acids but that's quickly of free fatty acids but that's quickly just used and when as soon as that is just used and when as soon as that is just used and when as soon as that is used the brown fat cells suck up the used the brown fat cells suck up the used the brown fat cells suck up the sugar and free fatty acids from the sugar and free fatty acids from the sugar and free fatty acids from the bloodstream and in that way it um it bloodstream and in that way it um it bloodstream and in that way it um it takes in um the calories to as fuel H takes in um the calories to as fuel H takes in um the calories to as fuel H and and uses that so that is why we and and uses that so that is why we and and uses that so that is why we think about the brown fat as a way of think about the brown fat as a way of think about the brown fat as a way of get rid of glucose from the bloodstream get rid of glucose from the bloodstream get rid of glucose from the bloodstream and fat from the bloodstream and why it

13:00and fat from the bloodstream and why it and fat from the bloodstream and why it can potentially be also treating type can potentially be also treating type can potentially be also treating type two two two diabetes that's so interesting so what diabetes that's so interesting so what diabetes that's so interesting so what is it about cold that differentiates so is it about cold that differentiates so is it about cold that differentiates so obviously adrenaline exists in the body obviously adrenaline exists in the body obviously adrenaline exists in the body at times other than just being cold so at times other than just being cold so at times other than just being cold so if I train uh you know with weights or if I train uh you know with weights or if I train uh you know with weights or or or inti ex I get adrenaline if I if I or or inti ex I get adrenaline if I if I or or inti ex I get adrenaline if I if I do something that's stressful I get do something that's stressful I get do something that's stressful I get adrenaline um that doesn't I mean you adrenaline um that doesn't I mean you adrenaline um that doesn't I mean you could tell them does that also activate could tell them does that also activate could tell them does that also activate Brown cells or what is it specifically Brown cells or what is it specifically Brown cells or what is it specifically about cold that increases these Brown CS about cold that increases these Brown CS about cold that increases these Brown CS brown brown fat soell production H well brown brown fat soell production H well brown brown fat soell production H well yeah there's there are other things that yeah there's there are other things that yeah there's there are other things that also activates the brown fat for example also activates the brown fat for example also activates the brown fat for example actually exercise does activate also the actually exercise does activate also the actually exercise does activate also the brown fat but not as potent as the cold brown fat but not as potent as the cold brown fat but not as potent as the cold so if we are going for the most potent so if we are going for the most potent so if we are going for the most potent activator of the brown fat that is cold activator of the brown fat that is cold activator of the brown fat that is cold temperatures as far as we know but it temperatures as far as we know but it temperatures as far as we know but it also makes sense if you think about it also makes sense if you think about it also makes sense if you think about it evolutionary we we we didn't have evolutionary we we we didn't have evolutionary we we we didn't have isolated houses as we have today we isolated houses as we have today we isolated houses as we have today we didn't have the ability to hack oursel

14:00didn't have the ability to hack oursel didn't have the ability to hack oursel up like we do today we are so theroc up like we do today we are so theroc up like we do today we are so theroc comfortable but if you think about it comfortable but if you think about it comfortable but if you think about it all also babies when they are born they all also babies when they are born they all also babies when they are born they get super quickly cold because they as get super quickly cold because they as get super quickly cold because they as soon as you take off the clothes they soon as you take off the clothes they soon as you take off the clothes they don't have the ability to shiver in the don't have the ability to shiver in the don't have the ability to shiver in the muscles before they are like six months muscles before they are like six months muscles before they are like six months old something like that um and but they old something like that um and but they old something like that um and but they have a lot of brown fat and that is to have a lot of brown fat and that is to have a lot of brown fat and that is to keep the heat up so to keep them warm keep the heat up so to keep them warm keep the heat up so to keep them warm and it it's activated immediately as and it it's activated immediately as and it it's activated immediately as soon as they are cold on the skin so soon as they are cold on the skin so soon as they are cold on the skin so when you go out in a t-shirt on a winter when you go out in a t-shirt on a winter when you go out in a t-shirt on a winter day and you get a little bit cold on the day and you get a little bit cold on the day and you get a little bit cold on the skin even just in the face or you skin even just in the face or you skin even just in the face or you breathe in cold air cold receptors will breathe in cold air cold receptors will breathe in cold air cold receptors will quickly make sure that you activate your quickly make sure that you activate your quickly make sure that you activate your brown fat and just just balancing that brown fat and just just balancing that brown fat and just just balancing that temperature out in your body so you temperature out in your body so you temperature out in your body so you don't get cold too cold because then you don't get cold too cold because then you don't get cold too cold because then you will start shivering because when the will start shivering because when the will start shivering because when the brown fat is not able to keep your heat brown fat is not able to keep your heat brown fat is not able to keep your heat up in the body the muscles will help you up in the body the muscles will help you up in the body the muscles will help you but the cold is the most potent one if but the cold is the most potent one if but the cold is the most potent one if that was your question but exercise can that was your question but exercise can that was your question but exercise can do that as well it is not adrenaline

15:00do that as well it is not adrenaline do that as well it is not adrenaline it's something called No adrenaline I it's something called No adrenaline I it's something called No adrenaline I know it's it's a little bit like why is know it's it's a little bit like why is know it's it's a little bit like why is there a difference but there there is a there a difference but there there is a there a difference but there there is a difference so no adrenaline specifically difference so no adrenaline specifically difference so no adrenaline specifically is the activator of of brown fat but if is the activator of of brown fat but if is the activator of of brown fat but if you if you look at what is activated you if you look at what is activated you if you look at what is activated when you go into for example h a cold when you go into for example h a cold when you go into for example h a cold plch you go dip yourself in cold water plch you go dip yourself in cold water plch you go dip yourself in cold water you will not have an increase in you will not have an increase in you will not have an increase in Adrenaline you will have an increase in Adrenaline you will have an increase in Adrenaline you will have an increase in no adrenaline and not as much in no adrenaline and not as much in no adrenaline and not as much in cortisol but you will no adrenaline so cortisol but you will no adrenaline so cortisol but you will no adrenaline so no adrenaline is definitely the one no adrenaline is definitely the one no adrenaline is definitely the one stress marker biomarker that is stress marker biomarker that is stress marker biomarker that is activating the brown fat and what we saw activating the brown fat and what we saw activating the brown fat and what we saw in my studies is that it is activating in my studies is that it is activating in my studies is that it is activating the brown fat even when we cool them the brown fat even when we cool them the brown fat even when we cool them down and there's also a difference when down and there's also a difference when down and there's also a difference when you look at people who have ex exposed you look at people who have ex exposed you look at people who have ex exposed themselves to multiple winter swimming themselves to multiple winter swimming themselves to multiple winter swimming Seasons compared to a control group yeah Seasons compared to a control group yeah Seasons compared to a control group yeah Dr we see all these interesting stories Dr we see all these interesting stories Dr we see all these interesting stories out of like Siberia of these children out of like Siberia of these children out of like Siberia of these children being exposed to cold at a very young

16:00being exposed to cold at a very young being exposed to cold at a very young age have ever looked at one the the age have ever looked at one the the age have ever looked at one the the result of that whether it be immediately result of that whether it be immediately result of that whether it be immediately or long term and is there is there any or long term and is there is there any or long term and is there is there any validity um or maybe Merit in getting validity um or maybe Merit in getting validity um or maybe Merit in getting exposed to additional cold at a young exposed to additional cold at a young exposed to additional cold at a young age as far as its ability to change you age as far as its ability to change you age as far as its ability to change you know call it thermogenesis for life or know call it thermogenesis for life or know call it thermogenesis for life or change maybe metabolism or gene change maybe metabolism or gene change maybe metabolism or gene expression is that something you've ever expression is that something you've ever expression is that something you've ever looked looked looked at I I don't think that we really have at I I don't think that we really have at I I don't think that we really have that kind of long-term data yet I I that kind of long-term data yet I I that kind of long-term data yet I I could be wrong but I I don't quite could be wrong but I I don't quite could be wrong but I I don't quite remember stumbling about that um but I remember stumbling about that um but I remember stumbling about that um but I think also that the research and brown think also that the research and brown think also that the research and brown fat and the focus on Brown fat is after fat and the focus on Brown fat is after fat and the focus on Brown fat is after the Millennium so I don't I don't think the Millennium so I don't I don't think the Millennium so I don't I don't think that we really have that long-term uh that we really have that long-term uh that we really have that long-term uh studies yet where we have followed studies yet where we have followed studies yet where we have followed people and and measured their Brown fat people and and measured their Brown fat people and and measured their Brown fat continuously to see this kind of people continuously to see this kind of people continuously to see this kind of people living specifically here but there are living specifically here but there are living specifically here but there are studies showing um different volumes of studies showing um different volumes of studies showing um different volumes of brown fat depending on regions and brown fat depending on regions and brown fat depending on regions and countries so we we we do have data on

17:00countries so we we we do have data on countries so we we we do have data on that we also know that there's a that we also know that there's a that we also know that there's a difference between men and women so difference between men and women so difference between men and women so women have more Brown fat than men I women have more Brown fat than men I women have more Brown fat than men I think we can also maybe explain that but think we can also maybe explain that but think we can also maybe explain that but but to answer your question is like I but to answer your question is like I but to answer your question is like I think it's very interesting it could be think it's very interesting it could be think it's very interesting it could be that some people who expose themselves that some people who expose themselves that some people who expose themselves to uh the code all the time is more to uh the code all the time is more to uh the code all the time is more prone to have um and increase neogenesis prone to have um and increase neogenesis prone to have um and increase neogenesis there are studies showing that people there are studies showing that people there are studies showing that people who work outside a lot they have more who work outside a lot they have more who work outside a lot they have more Brown fat so definitely it would make Brown fat so definitely it would make Brown fat so definitely it would make sense also there are studies showing for sense also there are studies showing for sense also there are studies showing for example that fishermen I love this study example that fishermen I love this study example that fishermen I love this study because they they have their hands in because they they have their hands in because they they have their hands in cold water all the time and they are cold water all the time and they are cold water all the time and they are more adapted to cold and that also shows more adapted to cold and that also shows more adapted to cold and that also shows that they are not cold because they that they are not cold because they that they are not cold because they increase their their heat because of increase their their heat because of increase their their heat because of they have an increased thermogenesis and they have an increased thermogenesis and they have an increased thermogenesis and their cold adaptation is all over the their cold adaptation is all over the their cold adaptation is all over the body even though they only expose the body even though they only expose the body even though they only expose the hand to the cold water all the time so

18:00hand to the cold water all the time so hand to the cold water all the time so it's systemically so even though you it's systemically so even though you it's systemically so even though you don't walk around outside as a outdoor don't walk around outside as a outdoor don't walk around outside as a outdoor work worker completely naked or in a work worker completely naked or in a work worker completely naked or in a swimsuit um you will still get adapted swimsuit um you will still get adapted swimsuit um you will still get adapted to cold temperatures just because you to cold temperatures just because you to cold temperatures just because you expose some parts of your body at least expose some parts of your body at least expose some parts of your body at least to cold fascinating and I know you said to cold fascinating and I know you said to cold fascinating and I know you said you studied diabetes a little bit and you studied diabetes a little bit and you studied diabetes a little bit and you've also said that brown fat you've also said that brown fat you've also said that brown fat activation or exposure to cold will drop activation or exposure to cold will drop activation or exposure to cold will drop down blood glucose does that mean that down blood glucose does that mean that down blood glucose does that mean that we could to doce that some cold exposure we could to doce that some cold exposure we could to doce that some cold exposure would actually be a good intervention would actually be a good intervention would actually be a good intervention with people with chronically elevated with people with chronically elevated with people with chronically elevated blood glucose so what we see in my study blood glucose so what we see in my study blood glucose so what we see in my study is that if you are lean and healthy even is that if you are lean and healthy even is that if you are lean and healthy even when you are lean and healthy you can when you are lean and healthy you can when you are lean and healthy you can still get a an increased thermogenesis still get a an increased thermogenesis still get a an increased thermogenesis and even a better glucose balance when and even a better glucose balance when and even a better glucose balance when you expose yourself to cold water you expose yourself to cold water you expose yourself to cold water immersion and we didn't really expect to immersion and we didn't really expect to immersion and we didn't really expect to see that so I think that even though see that so I think that even though see that so I think that even though it's difficult to just transfer those it's difficult to just transfer those it's difficult to just transfer those results and just say well type two results and just say well type two results and just say well type two diabetics H we cannot do that but we can diabetics H we cannot do that but we can diabetics H we cannot do that but we can hypothesize that they will also benefit

19:00hypothesize that they will also benefit hypothesize that they will also benefit from it on their metabolism because if from it on their metabolism because if from it on their metabolism because if you are healthy and you will increase you are healthy and you will increase you are healthy and you will increase your insulin sensitivity get a better your insulin sensitivity get a better your insulin sensitivity get a better glucose balance it it might also work on glucose balance it it might also work on glucose balance it it might also work on people who has a disruption in their people who has a disruption in their people who has a disruption in their metabolism so it's a good question but I metabolism so it's a good question but I metabolism so it's a good question but I think that is definitely worth think that is definitely worth think that is definitely worth investigating very interesting so the investigating very interesting so the investigating very interesting so the way my mind categorizes hot and cold is way my mind categorizes hot and cold is way my mind categorizes hot and cold is there's cold on its own and that has there's cold on its own and that has there's cold on its own and that has unique benefits and there's hot heat on unique benefits and there's hot heat on unique benefits and there's hot heat on its own and that has unique benefits but its own and that has unique benefits but its own and that has unique benefits but then there's also the overlap and then there's also the overlap and then there's also the overlap and there's the intersection of these things there's the intersection of these things there's the intersection of these things so I'd like to so we've discussed cold a so I'd like to so we've discussed cold a so I'd like to so we've discussed cold a little bit and and how that increases little bit and and how that increases little bit and and how that increases Brown fat activation is there any Brown fat activation is there any Brown fat activation is there any additional things that we should mention additional things that we should mention additional things that we should mention as far as like mechanism and benefit of as far as like mechanism and benefit of as far as like mechanism and benefit of cold before we then shift into heat and cold before we then shift into heat and cold before we then shift into heat and then eventually make our way into the then eventually make our way into the then eventually make our way into the overlap of them and why maybe is a overlap of them and why maybe is a overlap of them and why maybe is a unique synergistic therapy so there is a unique synergistic therapy so there is a unique synergistic therapy so there is a lot of I think there are many benefits lot of I think there are many benefits lot of I think there are many benefits of using cold therapy it's not only for of using cold therapy it's not only for of using cold therapy it's not only for metabol this I know we just dug into

20:00metabol this I know we just dug into metabol this I know we just dug into that because we started with my research that because we started with my research that because we started with my research but there are so many levels you can but there are so many levels you can but there are so many levels you can talk about the benefits because it when talk about the benefits because it when talk about the benefits because it when you expose the whole body uh to cold you expose the whole body uh to cold you expose the whole body uh to cold water you would have activated all the water you would have activated all the water you would have activated all the cells in your body and as soon as you do cells in your body and as soon as you do cells in your body and as soon as you do that you will have an acute effect which that you will have an acute effect which that you will have an acute effect which will give you better mood you have an will give you better mood you have an will give you better mood you have an increase in nor adrenaline and dopamine increase in nor adrenaline and dopamine increase in nor adrenaline and dopamine you an increase in oxytocin you will you an increase in oxytocin you will you an increase in oxytocin you will feel grateful better drive you will have feel grateful better drive you will have feel grateful better drive you will have motiv motiv motiv you reset the thoughts that you have you reset the thoughts that you have you reset the thoughts that you have before you went into the water would not before you went into the water would not before you went into the water would not be the same when you get out for the be the same when you get out for the be the same when you get out for the water because you cannot because you water because you cannot because you water because you cannot because you completely trans you translate or you completely trans you translate or you completely trans you translate or you transform the neurotransmitters in your transform the neurotransmitters in your transform the neurotransmitters in your brain so whatever thoughts you have brain so whatever thoughts you have brain so whatever thoughts you have whatever worries you had before you went whatever worries you had before you went whatever worries you had before you went into the water would not be seen the into the water would not be seen the into the water would not be seen the same when you get out it's very same when you get out it's very same when you get out it's very difficult though we will have to wait a difficult though we will have to wait a difficult though we will have to wait a couple of hours and maybe you will see couple of hours and maybe you will see couple of hours and maybe you will see as bad as you did before but the worries

21:00as bad as you did before but the worries as bad as you did before but the worries um the worries don't survive these kind um the worries don't survive these kind um the worries don't survive these kind of like exposures to to Cod and the of like exposures to to Cod and the of like exposures to to Cod and the shock and the survival mode that the shock and the survival mode that the shock and the survival mode that the body goes into so there is definitely a body goes into so there is definitely a body goes into so there is definitely a mental benefit part of going into the mental benefit part of going into the mental benefit part of going into the cold water which I think is very cold water which I think is very cold water which I think is very interesting and then there's the overlap interesting and then there's the overlap interesting and then there's the overlap I can agree with you on that I'll just I can agree with you on that I'll just I can agree with you on that I'll just say quickly I can absolutely agree with say quickly I can absolutely agree with say quickly I can absolutely agree with you on the it's because it requires so you on the it's because it requires so you on the it's because it requires so much surrender and relaxation that you much surrender and relaxation that you much surrender and relaxation that you just couldn't possibly maintain the same just couldn't possibly maintain the same just couldn't possibly maintain the same level of tension or worry that you had level of tension or worry that you had level of tension or worry that you had before you went it just doesn't happen before you went it just doesn't happen before you went it just doesn't happen no because it's impossible the body goes no because it's impossible the body goes no because it's impossible the body goes into a fight and flight mode you have to into a fight and flight mode you have to into a fight and flight mode you have to survive the body has to shut down survive the body has to shut down survive the body has to shut down everything that's not necessary and everything that's not necessary and everything that's not necessary and you're thinking about whatever is going you're thinking about whatever is going you're thinking about whatever is going to happen tomorrow or a meeting that to happen tomorrow or a meeting that to happen tomorrow or a meeting that you're going to have or who's going to you're going to have or who's going to you're going to have or who's going to say what is not really that important say what is not really that important say what is not really that important right now you just have to survive and I right now you just have to survive and I right now you just have to survive and I think that is that's amazing because think that is that's amazing because think that is that's amazing because that really shows that the body is that really shows that the body is that really shows that the body is capable of just keeping a complete Focus capable of just keeping a complete Focus capable of just keeping a complete Focus on what is happening right now and that

22:00on what is happening right now and that on what is happening right now and that is why we may maybe lag a little bit is why we may maybe lag a little bit is why we may maybe lag a little bit today because we are there's so much today because we are there's so much today because we are there's so much disturbance so much to worry about and disturbance so much to worry about and disturbance so much to worry about and so many things that are interrupting us so many things that are interrupting us so many things that are interrupting us so going into the Cod is like resetting so going into the Cod is like resetting so going into the Cod is like resetting everything that's like disturbing us everything that's like disturbing us everything that's like disturbing us right all the noise is like shut down right all the noise is like shut down right all the noise is like shut down and when you are done with your C plune and when you are done with your C plune and when you are done with your C plune you will still have all the things that you will still have all the things that you will still have all the things that you had before but you will maybe see you had before but you will maybe see you had before but you will maybe see them differently and when you do this a them differently and when you do this a them differently and when you do this a couple of times a week this might help couple of times a week this might help couple of times a week this might help you keep yourself in more of a better you keep yourself in more of a better you keep yourself in more of a better mental balance and then there is the the mental balance and then there is the the mental balance and then there is the the gratefulness to the world to the um to gratefulness to the world to the um to gratefulness to the world to the um to yourself that you are doing this to yourself that you are doing this to yourself that you are doing this to yourself you are helping yourself reset yourself you are helping yourself reset yourself you are helping yourself reset all this time and it might keep you just all this time and it might keep you just all this time and it might keep you just above I mean that is something that made above I mean that is something that made above I mean that is something that made me struggle with so I think that it has me struggle with so I think that it has me struggle with so I think that it has a lot of benefits also when it comes to a lot of benefits also when it comes to a lot of benefits also when it comes to the mental health and then there's the the mental health and then there's the the mental health and then there's the overlap and I think that is the overlap and I think that is the overlap and I think that is the interesting part so when you go when you interesting part so when you go when you interesting part so when you go when you look at inflammation and I just talked look at inflammation and I just talked look at inflammation and I just talked about insulin sensitivity and glucose uh

23:00about insulin sensitivity and glucose uh about insulin sensitivity and glucose uh balance and and so forth you can see and balance and and so forth you can see and balance and and so forth you can see and in the scientific studies that code in the scientific studies that code in the scientific studies that code exposure will H help you lower your exposure will H help you lower your exposure will H help you lower your blood pressure when you have Expos blood pressure when you have Expos blood pressure when you have Expos yourself to this for a couple of months yourself to this for a couple of months yourself to this for a couple of months and you do this continuously so lower and you do this continuously so lower and you do this continuously so lower blood pressure and heart rate is a very blood pressure and heart rate is a very blood pressure and heart rate is a very strong outcome for how well your strong outcome for how well your strong outcome for how well your cardiovascular system is because if you cardiovascular system is because if you cardiovascular system is because if you have a high blood pressure it shows that have a high blood pressure it shows that have a high blood pressure it shows that you have inflammation and it shows that you have inflammation and it shows that you have inflammation and it shows that your body is struggling so if you can your body is struggling so if you can your body is struggling so if you can lower your blood pressure then it means lower your blood pressure then it means lower your blood pressure then it means that you have a better blood flow in that you have a better blood flow in that you have a better blood flow in your body you have better oxygenation of your body you have better oxygenation of your body you have better oxygenation of all your cells you will have a better all your cells you will have a better all your cells you will have a better cardiovascular system so I really think cardiovascular system so I really think cardiovascular system so I really think that these um you could say overlap that that these um you could say overlap that that these um you could say overlap that was the the physical part so if you have was the the physical part so if you have was the the physical part so if you have lower inflammation you will also have a lower inflammation you will also have a lower inflammation you will also have a lower risk of depression and anxiety

24:00lower risk of depression and anxiety lower risk of depression and anxiety because it has been shown that one of because it has been shown that one of because it has been shown that one of the risk for depression and anxiety and the risk for depression and anxiety and the risk for depression and anxiety and also dementia is actually inflammation also dementia is actually inflammation also dementia is actually inflammation and this has been shown in studies so if and this has been shown in studies so if and this has been shown in studies so if you can work on your inflammation uh in you can work on your inflammation uh in you can work on your inflammation uh in the body then you will also work on your the body then you will also work on your the body then you will also work on your mental mental mental health yeah so I've got a number of health yeah so I've got a number of health yeah so I've got a number of questions still on the topic of cold so questions still on the topic of cold so questions still on the topic of cold so one thing when you speak of inflammation one thing when you speak of inflammation one thing when you speak of inflammation I think of neural inflammation even at I think of neural inflammation even at I think of neural inflammation even at the level of the brain and so obviously the level of the brain and so obviously the level of the brain and so obviously we know there's a systemic benefit but we know there's a systemic benefit but we know there's a systemic benefit but have you seen any validity or value in have you seen any validity or value in have you seen any validity or value in actually submersing the head into the actually submersing the head into the actually submersing the head into the into the water to decrease inflammation into the water to decrease inflammation into the water to decrease inflammation in the brain is that is that a direct in the brain is that is that a direct in the brain is that is that a direct mechanism if I submerse my head I could mechanism if I submerse my head I could mechanism if I submerse my head I could actually get an increased or increased actually get an increased or increased actually get an increased or increased benefit or is it just systemic as long benefit or is it just systemic as long benefit or is it just systemic as long as I'm getting most of my body kind of as I'm getting most of my body kind of as I'm getting most of my body kind of covered obviously when you get cold covered obviously when you get cold covered obviously when you get cold water in your face or actually just get water in your face or actually just get water in your face or actually just get water in your face you will activate the water in your face you will activate the water in your face you will activate the bigest sve which could be a good thing

25:00bigest sve which could be a good thing bigest sve which could be a good thing because that will help you stress down because that will help you stress down because that will help you stress down if you are in cold water you have if you are in cold water you have if you are in cold water you have already exposed so much of your body to already exposed so much of your body to already exposed so much of your body to cold that you don't really need the rest cold that you don't really need the rest cold that you don't really need the rest of here because that little piece you of here because that little piece you of here because that little piece you have up there you have to protect really have up there you have to protect really have up there you have to protect really hard because I know that a lot of people hard because I know that a lot of people hard because I know that a lot of people say and I still hear people say this but say and I still hear people say this but say and I still hear people say this but when you submerge into cold water you when you submerge into cold water you when you submerge into cold water you don't increase the blood flow to the don't increase the blood flow to the don't increase the blood flow to the brain brain you decrease the blood flow brain brain you decrease the blood flow brain brain you decrease the blood flow to the brain which means that you have to the brain which means that you have to the brain which means that you have activated your sympathetic nervous activated your sympathetic nervous activated your sympathetic nervous system and that means the blood flow to system and that means the blood flow to system and that means the blood flow to the brain will decrease by 30 to the brain will decrease by 30 to the brain will decrease by 30 to 40% so that means you don't really need 40% so that means you don't really need 40% so that means you don't really need to expose more water to the your whole to expose more water to the your whole to expose more water to the your whole head because that's just going to head because that's just going to head because that's just going to increase the heat loss from your body increase the heat loss from your body increase the heat loss from your body and also your core temperature will and also your core temperature will and also your core temperature will decrease very rapidly after that but decrease very rapidly after that but decrease very rapidly after that but also you you you don't need it because also you you you don't need it because also you you you don't need it because you already exposed that much of your

26:00you already exposed that much of your you already exposed that much of your body up to your neck to cold water and body up to your neck to cold water and body up to your neck to cold water and you will have a lot of activation of all you will have a lot of activation of all you will have a lot of activation of all the heat shop proteins Brown fat and the heat shop proteins Brown fat and the heat shop proteins Brown fat and whatever you want to activate I just see whatever you want to activate I just see whatever you want to activate I just see it as a risk that's why I'm saying that it as a risk that's why I'm saying that it as a risk that's why I'm saying that I and I haven't even found studies I and I haven't even found studies I and I haven't even found studies saying that it's a super good idea you saying that it's a super good idea you saying that it's a super good idea you mentioned dropping your your body mentioned dropping your your body mentioned dropping your your body temperature now that's interesting so temperature now that's interesting so temperature now that's interesting so has there been anyone looking at the has there been anyone looking at the has there been anyone looking at the degree to which we should look to drop degree to which we should look to drop degree to which we should look to drop our body temperature like is there a our body temperature like is there a our body temperature like is there a certain point where it's no longer certain point where it's no longer certain point where it's no longer beneficial if it goes too far down or is beneficial if it goes too far down or is beneficial if it goes too far down or is just like do we want to see a small drop just like do we want to see a small drop just like do we want to see a small drop has anyone ever looked at that um so I has anyone ever looked at that um so I has anyone ever looked at that um so I have looked as like drowning accidents have looked as like drowning accidents have looked as like drowning accidents and what I think what I'm trying to like and what I think what I'm trying to like and what I think what I'm trying to like Pro saying and protect against is Pro saying and protect against is Pro saying and protect against is hypothermia so I don't I don't think hypothermia so I don't I don't think hypothermia so I don't I don't think that it's a good idea that that it's a good idea that that it's a good idea that people overdo this and I I really think people overdo this and I I really think people overdo this and I I really think that it's good that people know what's that it's good that people know what's that it's good that people know what's happening so exposing your body to the happening so exposing your body to the happening so exposing your body to the cold water isn't is enough um and

27:00cold water isn't is enough um and cold water isn't is enough um and Studies have shown this is a review from Studies have shown this is a review from Studies have shown this is a review from done in in a group of scientists from done in in a group of scientists from done in in a group of scientists from Canada who looked at the difference in Canada who looked at the difference in Canada who looked at the difference in core temperature drop when they compared core temperature drop when they compared core temperature drop when they compared studies performed in uh people uh studies performed in uh people uh studies performed in uh people uh submerging up to the neck compared to submerging up to the neck compared to submerging up to the neck compared to when they then also dunked the head in when they then also dunked the head in when they then also dunked the head in the water and what they looked at was the water and what they looked at was the water and what they looked at was heat Lo heat Lo heat Lo and core temperature drop so what uh and core temperature drop so what uh and core temperature drop so what uh what I could see in in the studies from what I could see in in the studies from what I could see in in the studies from the Dr drowning accidents is that the Dr drowning accidents is that the Dr drowning accidents is that 35° in your core is like that is not a 35° in your core is like that is not a 35° in your core is like that is not a temperature you want to go down to that temperature you want to go down to that temperature you want to go down to that is that is 2 degrees lower than you is that is 2 degrees lower than you is that is 2 degrees lower than you normally would be right so and you could normally would be right so and you could normally would be right so and you could quickly come down to that if you stay quickly come down to that if you stay quickly come down to that if you stay too long in the water and even if you too long in the water and even if you too long in the water and even if you dunk your head because the Canada study dunk your head because the Canada study dunk your head because the Canada study I just mentioned also showed that if you I just mentioned also showed that if you I just mentioned also showed that if you expose your body to the cold water the

28:00expose your body to the cold water the expose your body to the cold water the heat loss rate um from the core will heat loss rate um from the core will heat loss rate um from the core will increase up to 177% but if you then also increase up to 177% but if you then also increase up to 177% but if you then also dunk the head into the water it would dunk the head into the water it would dunk the head into the water it would like add to that like 30% or something like add to that like 30% or something like add to that like 30% or something like that so it's it's really it could like that so it's it's really it could like that so it's it's really it could be uh really detrimental if you don't be uh really detrimental if you don't be uh really detrimental if you don't know what you're doing or you maybe stay know what you're doing or you maybe stay know what you're doing or you maybe stay too long or yeah so it's an in heat loss too long or yeah so it's an in heat loss too long or yeah so it's an in heat loss increase to the core because you don't increase to the core because you don't increase to the core because you don't have any fat protection nothing tissue have any fat protection nothing tissue have any fat protection nothing tissue from the head and your arteries here from the head and your arteries here from the head and your arteries here into your uh into your core but you have into your uh into your core but you have into your uh into your core but you have that on your arms you have that on your that on your arms you have that on your that on your arms you have that on your legs and it's more protect you're more legs and it's more protect you're more legs and it's more protect you're more protected of your core temperature if protected of your core temperature if protected of your core temperature if you just expose yourself up to here and you just expose yourself up to here and you just expose yourself up to here and you want to do this as a good thing for you want to do this as a good thing for you want to do this as a good thing for you you don't want to do Risky Business you you don't want to do Risky Business you you don't want to do Risky Business just to keep yourself healthy right so just to keep yourself healthy right so just to keep yourself healthy right so that's why I'm I'm just informing I'm that's why I'm I'm just informing I'm that's why I'm I'm just informing I'm not I'm not saying people do this wrong

29:00not I'm not saying people do this wrong not I'm not saying people do this wrong or anything I'm just saying what the or anything I'm just saying what the or anything I'm just saying what the science shows and I haven't really found science shows and I haven't really found science shows and I haven't really found studies showing that it's a it's very studies showing that it's a it's very studies showing that it's a it's very beneficial or adding beneficial things beneficial or adding beneficial things beneficial or adding beneficial things if you dump the head only the Vegas if you dump the head only the Vegas if you dump the head only the Vegas nerve but then you can just you know nerve but then you can just you know nerve but then you can just you know splash some water in the face yeah so splash some water in the face yeah so splash some water in the face yeah so shifting gears to heat exposure and so shifting gears to heat exposure and so shifting gears to heat exposure and so most people when they or at least most people when they or at least most people when they or at least currently most people when they um talk currently most people when they um talk currently most people when they um talk about cold exposure they also talk about about cold exposure they also talk about about cold exposure they also talk about coupling that with heat with um heat so coupling that with heat with um heat so coupling that with heat with um heat so they talk about go pole and heat they talk about go pole and heat they talk about go pole and heat together but if we just sort of separate together but if we just sort of separate together but if we just sort of separate them for a moment able to kind of them for a moment able to kind of them for a moment able to kind of Enlighten us on what's actually Enlighten us on what's actually Enlighten us on what's actually happening mechanistically in the body happening mechanistically in the body happening mechanistically in the body when it comes to sauna exposure so when when it comes to sauna exposure so when when it comes to sauna exposure so when someone gets in the sauna we're seeing someone gets in the sauna we're seeing someone gets in the sauna we're seeing an enormous number of benefits I know an enormous number of benefits I know an enormous number of benefits I know you spoke on recently on your social you spoke on recently on your social you spoke on recently on your social media about the benefits of long-term media about the benefits of long-term media about the benefits of long-term Sonic exposure and and the and the Sonic exposure and and the and the Sonic exposure and and the and the temperature specifically and what people temperature specifically and what people temperature specifically and what people are seeing as far as these long-term are seeing as far as these long-term are seeing as far as these long-term cohort studies cohort studies cohort studies yeah there are some incredible cohart

30:00yeah there are some incredible cohart yeah there are some incredible cohart studies from Finland which shows that if studies from Finland which shows that if studies from Finland which shows that if you expose yourself to a Sona more than you expose yourself to a Sona more than you expose yourself to a Sona more than one time per week even one is also good one time per week even one is also good one time per week even one is also good but if you can do this just two times but if you can do this just two times but if you can do this just two times and up to then seven times that's that's and up to then seven times that's that's and up to then seven times that's that's what they have measured um then you have what they have measured um then you have what they have measured um then you have an increase you have increased benefits an increase you have increased benefits an increase you have increased benefits on your cardiovascular system so just to on your cardiovascular system so just to on your cardiovascular system so just to those who don't know this study I'm just those who don't know this study I'm just those who don't know this study I'm just going to just tell what it's about so going to just tell what it's about so going to just tell what it's about so back in the 80s in Finland um scientists back in the 80s in Finland um scientists back in the 80s in Finland um scientists invited around 2,000 uh Sona bathers who invited around 2,000 uh Sona bathers who invited around 2,000 uh Sona bathers who did sonas from one to seven times per did sonas from one to seven times per did sonas from one to seven times per week and just followed them each year week and just followed them each year week and just followed them each year and and just ask them so how many times and and just ask them so how many times and and just ask them so how many times did you go into the sauna and kept a did you go into the sauna and kept a did you go into the sauna and kept a record of that um and also how many record of that um and also how many record of that um and also how many minutes they stayed in there and that minutes they stayed in there and that minutes they stayed in there and that was in order for them to see in 20 and was in order for them to see in 20 and was in order for them to see in 20 and now it's 25 and almost 30 years ago to now it's 25 and almost 30 years ago to now it's 25 and almost 30 years ago to see if there are some correlations

31:00see if there are some correlations see if there are some correlations between going into the Sona and how many between going into the Sona and how many between going into the Sona and how many times so the dose of sauna how many times so the dose of sauna how many times so the dose of sauna how many minutes also if that was correlated to H minutes also if that was correlated to H minutes also if that was correlated to H mortality so early death or um any kind mortality so early death or um any kind mortality so early death or um any kind of cardiovascular disease or mental of cardiovascular disease or mental of cardiovascular disease or mental disease that's Alzheimer's dementia um disease that's Alzheimer's dementia um disease that's Alzheimer's dementia um they looked at um psychotic um episodes they looked at um psychotic um episodes they looked at um psychotic um episodes so they looked at so many things to see so they looked at so many things to see so they looked at so many things to see is there any association between how is there any association between how is there any association between how many times you go into a Sona and how many times you go into a Sona and how many times you go into a Sona and how many minutes you sit there and is there many minutes you sit there and is there many minutes you sit there and is there actually a higher threshold and a lower actually a higher threshold and a lower actually a higher threshold and a lower threshold for when the benefits Fade Out threshold for when the benefits Fade Out threshold for when the benefits Fade Out or Plateau out at least so what they or Plateau out at least so what they or Plateau out at least so what they found was um in a study they published found was um in a study they published found was um in a study they published in in in 2015 were showing that if you use the 2015 were showing that if you use the 2015 were showing that if you use the Sona two to three times per week you Sona two to three times per week you Sona two to three times per week you will have a um a low and decreased risk will have a um a low and decreased risk will have a um a low and decreased risk of cardiovascular diseases by by 27% and of cardiovascular diseases by by 27% and of cardiovascular diseases by by 27% and if you then go seven times per week

32:00if you then go seven times per week if you then go seven times per week that's every day if you have time for that's every day if you have time for that's every day if you have time for that um then you will have a lower risk that um then you will have a lower risk that um then you will have a lower risk of 40% and also they looked at mortality of 40% and also they looked at mortality of 40% and also they looked at mortality so early death so if you H go or two to so early death so if you H go or two to so early death so if you H go or two to three times per week you will have a a three times per week you will have a a three times per week you will have a a lower risk of early death compared to lower risk of early death compared to lower risk of early death compared to those who went into the Sona only one those who went into the Sona only one those who went into the Sona only one time per week so the controlled group time per week so the controlled group time per week so the controlled group was actually one time per week and those was actually one time per week and those was actually one time per week and those who went seven times per week had an who went seven times per week had an who went seven times per week had an even lower mortality so up to 40 uh% as even lower mortality so up to 40 uh% as even lower mortality so up to 40 uh% as well h of all course mortality so that's well h of all course mortality so that's well h of all course mortality so that's everything they just put into one po everything they just put into one po everything they just put into one po pole and then looked at early death but pole and then looked at early death but pole and then looked at early death but what I think is interesting in this what I think is interesting in this what I think is interesting in this cohort study is that the control group cohort study is that the control group cohort study is that the control group was not some random group who was very H was not some random group who was very H was not some random group who was very H an a completely another phenotype an a completely another phenotype an a completely another phenotype compared to the the SAA baers they compared to the the SAA baers they compared to the the SAA baers they looked at those who were already SAA

33:00looked at those who were already SAA looked at those who were already SAA baiters but only went one time per week baiters but only went one time per week baiters but only went one time per week and what they saw was also that there is and what they saw was also that there is and what they saw was also that there is a higher threshold and a lower threshold a higher threshold and a lower threshold a higher threshold and a lower threshold for how long time it's healthy to use for how long time it's healthy to use for how long time it's healthy to use the Sona so above 19 to 30 minutes was the Sona so above 19 to 30 minutes was the Sona so above 19 to 30 minutes was not beneficial because then the benefits not beneficial because then the benefits not beneficial because then the benefits faded out and also below 10 minutes 8 10 faded out and also below 10 minutes 8 10 faded out and also below 10 minutes 8 10 minutes then they also did not see any minutes then they also did not see any minutes then they also did not see any difference so it really shows that there difference so it really shows that there difference so it really shows that there is like this window where it's is like this window where it's is like this window where it's beneficial and you see this dose beneficial and you see this dose beneficial and you see this dose dependent relationship between timing dependent relationship between timing dependent relationship between timing and also how many times per week so I and also how many times per week so I and also how many times per week so I really think that it shows that it comes really think that it shows that it comes really think that it shows that it comes down to what is called hematic stress so down to what is called hematic stress so down to what is called hematic stress so if you expose yourself to a low dose of if you expose yourself to a low dose of if you expose yourself to a low dose of stress then it's healthy for you and stress then it's healthy for you and stress then it's healthy for you and this is this is how my research started this is this is how my research started this is this is how my research started right I wanted to research winter right I wanted to research winter right I wanted to research winter swimmers and Sona bathers who did not swimmers and Sona bathers who did not swimmers and Sona bathers who did not use this um very much but just a little use this um very much but just a little use this um very much but just a little bit to keep it in what I hope would be

34:00bit to keep it in what I hope would be bit to keep it in what I hope would be the htic stress space where they expose the htic stress space where they expose the htic stress space where they expose the the cells to acute kind of stress the the cells to acute kind of stress the the cells to acute kind of stress but not overdose it that meaning staying but not overdose it that meaning staying but not overdose it that meaning staying too long in the cold staying too long in too long in the cold staying too long in too long in the cold staying too long in the SAA and then over stress the cells the SAA and then over stress the cells the SAA and then over stress the cells because then they get exhausted and then because then they get exhausted and then because then they get exhausted and then they age uh faster and then you age they age uh faster and then you age they age uh faster and then you age faster so it has to be over 10 minutes faster so it has to be over 10 minutes faster so it has to be over 10 minutes under 30 minutes and I believe in your under 30 minutes and I believe in your under 30 minutes and I believe in your your post said 176 Dees seem to be the your post said 176 Dees seem to be the your post said 176 Dees seem to be the the The Sweet Spot is that correct yeah the The Sweet Spot is that correct yeah the The Sweet Spot is that correct yeah so that's Fahrenheit yeah so in in so that's Fahrenheit yeah so in in so that's Fahrenheit yeah so in in Celsius that would be around Celsius that would be around Celsius that would be around 80 80 Celsius yeah yeah that's great and 80 80 Celsius yeah yeah that's great and 80 80 Celsius yeah yeah that's great and so and then what they found just so I so and then what they found just so I so and then what they found just so I want to firy the audience that more than want to firy the audience that more than want to firy the audience that more than that was not beneficial so doing 220 that was not beneficial so doing 220 that was not beneficial so doing 220 degrees for 45 minutes which is what a degrees for 45 minutes which is what a degrees for 45 minutes which is what a lot of people were doing now seems like lot of people were doing now seems like lot of people were doing now seems like it has Overkill really 45 it has Overkill really 45 it has Overkill really 45 mes yes I'm not me but mes yes I'm not me but mes yes I'm not me but there's people up there who do that very there's people up there who do that very there's people up there who do that very very very OD

35:00very very OD very very OD SS that's much so I don't know why I SS that's much so I don't know why I SS that's much so I don't know why I don't know why it's just don't know why it's just don't know why it's just I yeah so that's why I'm also that's I yeah so that's why I'm also that's I yeah so that's why I'm also that's pretty much what I want to teach people pretty much what I want to teach people pretty much what I want to teach people it's not necessary it's it's it's um and it's not necessary it's it's it's um and it's not necessary it's it's it's um and it's not new science if we if we talk it's not new science if we if we talk it's not new science if we if we talk talk about what is what kind of stress talk about what is what kind of stress talk about what is what kind of stress do we have we have chronic stress which do we have we have chronic stress which do we have we have chronic stress which everybody knows about then we have the everybody knows about then we have the everybody knows about then we have the healthy stress and the healthy stress is healthy stress and the healthy stress is healthy stress and the healthy stress is still like a New Concept for people but still like a New Concept for people but still like a New Concept for people but this was discovered in 1936 and this was discovered in 1936 and this was discovered in 1936 and published in nature magazine by H cely published in nature magazine by H cely published in nature magazine by H cely who discovered this it's not something who discovered this it's not something who discovered this it's not something new so talking about it is a really good new so talking about it is a really good new so talking about it is a really good thing and it's also good to to get this thing and it's also good to to get this thing and it's also good to to get this message out that you can go with the low message out that you can go with the low message out that you can go with the low dose because the low dose is what's dose because the low dose is what's dose because the low dose is what's keeping your cells um alive they they keeping your cells um alive they they keeping your cells um alive they they when we expose ourselves to um for when we expose ourselves to um for when we expose ourselves to um for example the SAA what happens is that we example the SAA what happens is that we example the SAA what happens is that we activate What's called the heat shock activate What's called the heat shock activate What's called the heat shock proteins and that will repair the cells

36:00proteins and that will repair the cells proteins and that will repair the cells and make them stronger because the body and make them stronger because the body and make them stronger because the body has to act as if you're going to do this has to act as if you're going to do this has to act as if you're going to do this stupid thing again which might kill you stupid thing again which might kill you stupid thing again which might kill you because that's that's how this that's because that's that's how this that's because that's that's how this that's how the body reacts right both to the how the body reacts right both to the how the body reacts right both to the cold but also to the heat um but the cold but also to the heat um but the cold but also to the heat um but the thing is you're doing this deliberately thing is you're doing this deliberately thing is you're doing this deliberately so you know when to go out so you can so you know when to go out so you can so you know when to go out so you can you can increase uh the strength of your you can increase uh the strength of your you can increase uh the strength of your cells but overdoing it will just exhaust cells but overdoing it will just exhaust cells but overdoing it will just exhaust them so I think that 45 minutes might be them so I think that 45 minutes might be them so I think that 45 minutes might be a little bit too long a little bit too long a little bit too long yeah yeah um just just the reporter so yeah yeah um just just the reporter so yeah yeah um just just the reporter so yeah so we speak of um the incredible yeah so we speak of um the incredible yeah so we speak of um the incredible benefits of coold the incredible benefits of coold the incredible benefits of coold the incredible benefits of heat and how about the benefits of heat and how about the benefits of heat and how about the Synergy is has there been any known Synergy is has there been any known Synergy is has there been any known studies around people doing these things studies around people doing these things studies around people doing these things together and why we would intentionally together and why we would intentionally together and why we would intentionally combine these modalities rather than combine these modalities rather than combine these modalities rather than doing them doing them doing them separately yes so we have been doing separately yes so we have been doing separately yes so we have been doing this combined in Scandinavia for many this combined in Scandinavia for many this combined in Scandinavia for many years so we already know about the

37:00years so we already know about the years so we already know about the contrast therapy um and it's not a New contrast therapy um and it's not a New contrast therapy um and it's not a New Concept it's maybe a forgotten concept Concept it's maybe a forgotten concept Concept it's maybe a forgotten concept which um I have chosen to study in my which um I have chosen to study in my which um I have chosen to study in my research because I think that the research because I think that the research because I think that the alternation between the cold and the alternation between the cold and the alternation between the cold and the heat is just to complete the extremes of heat is just to complete the extremes of heat is just to complete the extremes of temperatures but if you keep it at the temperatures but if you keep it at the temperatures but if you keep it at the hematic stress level cat heat and hematic stress level cat heat and hematic stress level cat heat and alternation between it you will activate alternation between it you will activate alternation between it you will activate different different kind of um uh different different kind of um uh different different kind of um uh Pathways in the body but and then maybe Pathways in the body but and then maybe Pathways in the body but and then maybe they will be overlapping even so you they will be overlapping even so you they will be overlapping even so you have the heat shock proteins you have have the heat shock proteins you have have the heat shock proteins you have the cold shock proteins you have the the cold shock proteins you have the the cold shock proteins you have the neurotransmitters activated very rapidly neurotransmitters activated very rapidly neurotransmitters activated very rapidly in the cold water but you would also in the cold water but you would also in the cold water but you would also have the benefits of the sauna when you have the benefits of the sauna when you have the benefits of the sauna when you do the the because of the the do the the because of the the do the the because of the the cardiovascular benefits because it it cardiovascular benefits because it it cardiovascular benefits because it it actually mimics um and exercise when you actually mimics um and exercise when you actually mimics um and exercise when you go to your training center go to your training center go to your training center what I know is that in my study we did

38:00what I know is that in my study we did what I know is that in my study we did see that when you combine that that we see that when you combine that that we see that when you combine that that we have this increased insulin have this increased insulin have this increased insulin sensitivity and also the a better sensitivity and also the a better sensitivity and also the a better glucose balance so it might work on glucose balance so it might work on glucose balance so it might work on different Pathways which we know different Pathways which we know different Pathways which we know separately a lot about from the cold and separately a lot about from the cold and separately a lot about from the cold and from the heat H and in my study we did from the heat H and in my study we did from the heat H and in my study we did see that you have an increased um see that you have an increased um see that you have an increased um activation of the brown fat into winter activation of the brown fat into winter activation of the brown fat into winter swimmers amazing and um people in swimmers amazing and um people in swimmers amazing and um people in Scandinavia definitely have been doing Scandinavia definitely have been doing Scandinavia definitely have been doing this for a very long time and you're in this for a very long time and you're in this for a very long time and you're in the right place to be exposed to all the the right place to be exposed to all the the right place to be exposed to all the different levels of modality and and different levels of modality and and different levels of modality and and where that takes my mind is um the where that takes my mind is um the where that takes my mind is um the question that comes up a lot that I get question that comes up a lot that I get question that comes up a lot that I get a lot is can we differentiate between a lot is can we differentiate between a lot is can we differentiate between infrared sonas and um conventional infrared sonas and um conventional infrared sonas and um conventional Swedish or Finn saas and it just come Swedish or Finn saas and it just come Swedish or Finn saas and it just come down to temperature oras there is there down to temperature oras there is there down to temperature oras there is there some known benefit to infrared versus some known benefit to infrared versus some known benefit to infrared versus conventional Swedish last finish saas conventional Swedish last finish saas conventional Swedish last finish saas oh there's there is a I think there's a oh there's there is a I think there's a oh there's there is a I think there's a difference it's also it's not only the

39:00difference it's also it's not only the difference it's also it's not only the temperature because infrared sonas are temperature because infrared sonas are temperature because infrared sonas are great I think they have this mild um the great I think they have this mild um the great I think they have this mild um the mild heat is also very good you can sit mild heat is also very good you can sit mild heat is also very good you can sit a little bit longer in these sonas and a little bit longer in these sonas and a little bit longer in these sonas and also the wave lengths and it's also also the wave lengths and it's also also the wave lengths and it's also depending on if it's near middle or a depending on if it's near middle or a depending on if it's near middle or a far infrared uh Sona they do also now a far infrared uh Sona they do also now a far infrared uh Sona they do also now a combination of also the Heat and also combination of also the Heat and also combination of also the Heat and also with the infrared so you have a with the infrared so you have a with the infrared so you have a combination sonas everywhere so I think combination sonas everywhere so I think combination sonas everywhere so I think that what we see H from the literature that what we see H from the literature that what we see H from the literature is that the infrared sonas have is that the infrared sonas have is that the infrared sonas have beneficial effects Especial for um beneficial effects Especial for um beneficial effects Especial for um psoriasis and eczema um so it has H psoriasis and eczema um so it has H psoriasis and eczema um so it has H benefits for U skin diseases and the benefits for U skin diseases and the benefits for U skin diseases and the skin texture so if you have dry skin for skin texture so if you have dry skin for skin texture so if you have dry skin for example so these Studies have been example so these Studies have been example so these Studies have been performed in in especially in kids but I performed in in especially in kids but I performed in in especially in kids but I think that we think that we think that we don't have that much literature on don't have that much literature on don't have that much literature on infrared sonas when it comes to

40:00infrared sonas when it comes to infrared sonas when it comes to metabolic um Health um so we still like metabolic um Health um so we still like metabolic um Health um so we still like that and it could be that because it is that and it could be that because it is that and it could be that because it is a mild um a mild um a mild um exposure it is not activating the heat exposure it is not activating the heat exposure it is not activating the heat shop proteins um shop proteins um shop proteins um or yeah that I I don't know and it or yeah that I I don't know and it or yeah that I I don't know and it really depends on how much you sweat so really depends on how much you sweat so really depends on how much you sweat so it also depends on how long do you sit it also depends on how long do you sit it also depends on how long do you sit in the SAA is it a near far or middle in the SAA is it a near far or middle in the SAA is it a near far or middle wavelength SAA so it's it's really wavelength SAA so it's it's really wavelength SAA so it's it's really really a difficult place to really a difficult place to really a difficult place to to to study I think also scientists to to study I think also scientists to to study I think also scientists right do you know any of the differences right do you know any of the differences right do you know any of the differences like would someone want to look for a like would someone want to look for a like would someone want to look for a far infed a near infared a mid-range or far infed a near infared a mid-range or far infed a near infared a mid-range or something that does all of them is there something that does all of them is there something that does all of them is there any known benefits any specific any known benefits any specific any known benefits any specific wavelength I mean I think that the far wavelength I mean I think that the far wavelength I mean I think that the far infrared goes deeper into the tissue so infrared goes deeper into the tissue so infrared goes deeper into the tissue so it could actually go into the the muscle it could actually go into the the muscle it could actually go into the the muscle tissue which has some benefits because

41:00tissue which has some benefits because tissue which has some benefits because it's h increasing the blood flow even it's h increasing the blood flow even it's h increasing the blood flow even more to the skin and to the tissue which more to the skin and to the tissue which more to the skin and to the tissue which is super good for joint joint pain and is super good for joint joint pain and is super good for joint joint pain and muscle pain so if you for example uh end muscle pain so if you for example uh end muscle pain so if you for example uh end your um exercise session you could you your um exercise session you could you your um exercise session you could you could definitely use an infrared sauna could definitely use an infrared sauna could definitely use an infrared sauna as a way to recover also so it really as a way to recover also so it really as a way to recover also so it really depends on the wavelength which is is of depends on the wavelength which is is of depends on the wavelength which is is of course something that a person who is course something that a person who is course something that a person who is looking for should look for what is the looking for should look for what is the looking for should look for what is the right wavelength for what I especially right wavelength for what I especially right wavelength for what I especially want for my Sona so and it's a little want for my Sona so and it's a little want for my Sona so and it's a little bit easier with the with the traditional bit easier with the with the traditional bit easier with the with the traditional sonas because they just heat you sonas because they just heat you sonas because they just heat you up yeah I love that we' so we've got up yeah I love that we' so we've got up yeah I love that we' so we've got through all the the data and the through all the the data and the through all the the data and the research or a lot of it and now I want research or a lot of it and now I want research or a lot of it and now I want to get into the conversation of to get into the conversation of to get into the conversation of protocols right so you mentioned protocols right so you mentioned protocols right so you mentioned specifically there that after a workout specifically there that after a workout specifically there that after a workout may be a great time to do an infrared may be a great time to do an infrared may be a great time to do an infrared sauna whereas most people know that sauna whereas most people know that sauna whereas most people know that after workout may not be the best time after workout may not be the best time after workout may not be the best time would be doing cold exposure we also can would be doing cold exposure we also can would be doing cold exposure we also can get into the soberg effect and we love

42:00get into the soberg effect and we love get into the soberg effect and we love to talk about that so I said if you if to talk about that so I said if you if to talk about that so I said if you if you want to walk through how much let's you want to walk through how much let's you want to walk through how much let's start with cold and we say well what is start with cold and we say well what is start with cold and we say well what is what is the ideal amount of time to be what is the ideal amount of time to be what is the ideal amount of time to be exposed to cold to receive the full exposed to cold to receive the full exposed to cold to receive the full benefit and temperature it's a really benefit and temperature it's a really benefit and temperature it's a really good question and I think that we good question and I think that we good question and I think that we definitely also need more research to definitely also need more research to definitely also need more research to show different protocols on this I think show different protocols on this I think show different protocols on this I think that my research has shown Maybe a that my research has shown Maybe a that my research has shown Maybe a protocol a way to do this so what we saw protocol a way to do this so what we saw protocol a way to do this so what we saw in my study is that if you expose in my study is that if you expose in my study is that if you expose yourself to cold uh temperatures so cold yourself to cold uh temperatures so cold yourself to cold uh temperatures so cold plunges and sauna you could do 11 plunges and sauna you could do 11 plunges and sauna you could do 11 minutes per week and divide that on two minutes per week and divide that on two minutes per week and divide that on two to three days and three dips and two SAA to three days and three dips and two SAA to three days and three dips and two SAA visits and the SAA is 57 minutes per visits and the SAA is 57 minutes per visits and the SAA is 57 minutes per week divided on two to three days so you week divided on two to three days so you week divided on two to three days so you have to divide that onto different days have to divide that onto different days have to divide that onto different days and when you then calculate that out and when you then calculate that out and when you then calculate that out it's only one to two minutes in the it's only one to two minutes in the it's only one to two minutes in the water per per dip so you don't have to water per per dip so you don't have to water per per dip so you don't have to stay that long actually to to mimic some

43:00stay that long actually to to mimic some stay that long actually to to mimic some of the the effects that we saw in the in of the the effects that we saw in the in of the the effects that we saw in the in my study at least so I think that my study at least so I think that my study at least so I think that there's should be more studies where we there's should be more studies where we there's should be more studies where we can see where is the higher threshold can see where is the higher threshold can see where is the higher threshold what happens on on in the long run but what happens on on in the long run but what happens on on in the long run but maybe it's a good place to start as a as maybe it's a good place to start as a as maybe it's a good place to start as a as a way to have some kind of like a a way to have some kind of like a a way to have some kind of like a guideline yeah and how about the guideline yeah and how about the guideline yeah and how about the intentional introduction of shivering intentional introduction of shivering intentional introduction of shivering because something hubman talks about a because something hubman talks about a because something hubman talks about a lot is like as the desire lot is like as the desire lot is like as the desire end state is like we want to get here to end state is like we want to get here to end state is like we want to get here to receive the benefit are you asking me receive the benefit are you asking me receive the benefit are you asking me whether people should shiver or yeah whether people should shiver or yeah whether people should shiver or yeah sorry yeah and eventually when you get sorry yeah and eventually when you get sorry yeah and eventually when you get adapted to the cold water you you would adapted to the cold water you you would adapted to the cold water you you would stop shivering and you would maybe be stop shivering and you would maybe be stop shivering and you would maybe be able to stay in the water for very long able to stay in the water for very long able to stay in the water for very long time without shivering so if that is time without shivering so if that is time without shivering so if that is your goal and if I say that is your goal your goal and if I say that is your goal your goal and if I say that is your goal then you will stay in the water for many then you will stay in the water for many then you will stay in the water for many many minutes onto your sh but with many minutes onto your sh but with many minutes onto your sh but with adaptation you stop actually the this adaptation you stop actually the this adaptation you stop actually the this the the the Shivering that you can see the the the Shivering that you can see the the the Shivering that you can see but the muscles are shivering but

44:00but the muscles are shivering but but the muscles are shivering but they're just very efficient at they're just very efficient at they're just very efficient at increasing your temperature and they increasing your temperature and they increasing your temperature and they increasingly get better at it and the increasingly get better at it and the increasingly get better at it and the Shivering will subside so I don't think Shivering will subside so I don't think Shivering will subside so I don't think that shivering should be a goal for that shivering should be a goal for that shivering should be a goal for anyone I think that you should keep an anyone I think that you should keep an anyone I think that you should keep an eye a bit on the time how long you stay eye a bit on the time how long you stay eye a bit on the time how long you stay there and be satisfied with the there and be satisfied with the there and be satisfied with the accomplishment that you did and not use accomplishment that you did and not use accomplishment that you did and not use this as a goal because of again because this as a goal because of again because this as a goal because of again because of safety of course but also because you of safety of course but also because you of safety of course but also because you don't know what happens if you stay in don't know what happens if you stay in don't know what happens if you stay in the cool water for I don't know some the cool water for I don't know some the cool water for I don't know some people stay a very long time maybe 10 people stay a very long time maybe 10 people stay a very long time maybe 10 minutes maybe 15 minutes and if they're minutes maybe 15 minutes and if they're minutes maybe 15 minutes and if they're not even really moving I mean exercising not even really moving I mean exercising not even really moving I mean exercising it could be some people are really it could be some people are really it could be some people are really swimming and now we are talking athletes swimming and now we are talking athletes swimming and now we are talking athletes right um that's different because right um that's different because right um that's different because they're using their muscles and that's they're using their muscles and that's they're using their muscles and that's very different from a plune where you very different from a plune where you very different from a plune where you just go in and you sit there and get just go in and you sit there and get just go in and you sit there and get cold cold cold so shivering is a good thing because you so shivering is a good thing because you so shivering is a good thing because you increase your metabolism so you

45:00increase your metabolism so you increase your metabolism so you shouldn't be avoiding shivering in that shouldn't be avoiding shivering in that shouldn't be avoiding shivering in that way but if you start shivering and you way but if you start shivering and you way but if you start shivering and you are new to this then go up because you are new to this then go up because you are new to this then go up because you at that point you you are done that's at that point you you are done that's at that point you you are done that's fine you have increased your metabolism fine you have increased your metabolism fine you have increased your metabolism Brown fat and muscles but you don't need Brown fat and muscles but you don't need Brown fat and muscles but you don't need to see it as a goal because at one point to see it as a goal because at one point to see it as a goal because at one point you won't feel the Shivering that much you won't feel the Shivering that much you won't feel the Shivering that much anymore that's great advice that's great anymore that's great advice that's great anymore that's great advice that's great ADV advice thank you so a lot of my ADV advice thank you so a lot of my ADV advice thank you so a lot of my audience is focused on uh performance audience is focused on uh performance audience is focused on uh performance specifically adapting to exercise and specifically adapting to exercise and specifically adapting to exercise and and training hard and wanting to adapt and training hard and wanting to adapt and training hard and wanting to adapt and there's been some suggestion that and there's been some suggestion that and there's been some suggestion that taking um or being exposed to cold taking um or being exposed to cold taking um or being exposed to cold postwork out could actually blunt postwork out could actually blunt postwork out could actually blunt post-workout inflammatory response that post-workout inflammatory response that post-workout inflammatory response that we want the beneficial response to off we want the beneficial response to off we want the beneficial response to off from exercise are you familiar with that from exercise are you familiar with that from exercise are you familiar with that research and can you say anything about research and can you say anything about research and can you say anything about that yeah so if you do C- plans after that yeah so if you do C- plans after that yeah so if you do C- plans after workout yeah workout yeah workout yeah yes so there are some studies showing yes so there are some studies showing yes so there are some studies showing that and it it completely makes sense so

46:00that and it it completely makes sense so that and it it completely makes sense so if you for example have an injury you if you for example have an injury you if you for example have an injury you will put ice on it and that is to will put ice on it and that is to will put ice on it and that is to decrease the inflammation and decrease decrease the inflammation and decrease decrease the inflammation and decrease the blood flow to that area and when you the blood flow to that area and when you the blood flow to that area and when you do that then you stop the process of do that then you stop the process of do that then you stop the process of inflammation and when you work out then inflammation and when you work out then inflammation and when you work out then you of course want the inflammation to you of course want the inflammation to you of course want the inflammation to be there if you want to increase uh be there if you want to increase uh be there if you want to increase uh hypertrophy so if you want to grow your hypertrophy so if you want to grow your hypertrophy so if you want to grow your muscles but if you are very concerned muscles but if you are very concerned muscles but if you are very concerned about EV growing every muscle in your about EV growing every muscle in your about EV growing every muscle in your body and you don't mind being a little body and you don't mind being a little body and you don't mind being a little bit sore afterwards because you not bit sore afterwards because you not bit sore afterwards because you not maybe competing at this moment then maybe competing at this moment then maybe competing at this moment then don't end with a co- plune but go into don't end with a co- plune but go into don't end with a co- plune but go into the SAA is a really good thing so I the SAA is a really good thing so I the SAA is a really good thing so I always do that when I go working out so always do that when I go working out so always do that when I go working out so I go into the SAA and then do a bit of I go into the SAA and then do a bit of I go into the SAA and then do a bit of stretching because then you will also be stretching because then you will also be stretching because then you will also be more flexible but ending on the C- plune more flexible but ending on the C- plune more flexible but ending on the C- plune is um is a good thing if you're an is um is a good thing if you're an is um is a good thing if you're an athlete and you want to uh be less sore athlete and you want to uh be less sore athlete and you want to uh be less sore and there are definitely studies showing and there are definitely studies showing and there are definitely studies showing that that it helps but you actually have that that it helps but you actually have that that it helps but you actually have to stay there for a bit um and you don't to stay there for a bit um and you don't to stay there for a bit um and you don't have to expose the whole body to the

47:00have to expose the whole body to the have to expose the whole body to the plunge um but just mostly actually the plunge um but just mostly actually the plunge um but just mostly actually the parts that you have been using Dr sober parts that you have been using Dr sober parts that you have been using Dr sober what is the soberg what is the soberg what is the soberg effect the effect the effect the soberg soberg principle yeah yeah yeah soberg soberg principle yeah yeah yeah soberg soberg principle yeah yeah yeah the so principle I didn't make the so principle I didn't make the so principle I didn't make that that was that's the hman yeah so we that that was that's the hman yeah so we that that was that's the hman yeah so we had a conversation it's a while ago but had a conversation it's a while ago but had a conversation it's a while ago but he asked some of the same questions you he asked some of the same questions you he asked some of the same questions you asked me so how to do this and that and asked me so how to do this and that and asked me so how to do this and that and how to how should we end our cold how to how should we end our cold how to how should we end our cold contrast therapy or whatever and then I contrast therapy or whatever and then I contrast therapy or whatever and then I said well I would advise people to end said well I would advise people to end said well I would advise people to end with the co- plunge um because that's with the co- plunge um because that's with the co- plunge um because that's going to increase your going to increase your going to increase your metabolism when you do that then you metabolism when you do that then you metabolism when you do that then you force your body to heat up naturally and force your body to heat up naturally and force your body to heat up naturally and when you heat up naturally you will when you heat up naturally you will when you heat up naturally you will force every thermogenic cell in your force every thermogenic cell in your force every thermogenic cell in your body muscles and brown fat to increase body muscles and brown fat to increase body muscles and brown fat to increase the heat in your body that is the only the heat in your body that is the only the heat in your body that is the only tissues that you have have to increase tissues that you have have to increase tissues that you have have to increase the heat right so that has to activate the heat right so that has to activate the heat right so that has to activate to keep your temperature up and to

48:00to keep your temperature up and to to keep your temperature up and to reheat your whole body that's a lot of reheat your whole body that's a lot of reheat your whole body that's a lot of tissue so it takes a yeah depending on tissue so it takes a yeah depending on tissue so it takes a yeah depending on how adapted you are it's going to take a how adapted you are it's going to take a how adapted you are it's going to take a while some hours for new new beginners while some hours for new new beginners while some hours for new new beginners you can say and if you are adapted you can say and if you are adapted you can say and if you are adapted already it might only take a half an already it might only take a half an already it might only take a half an hour or an hour but keep moving hour or an hour but keep moving hour or an hour but keep moving afterwards because if you sit down you afterwards because if you sit down you afterwards because if you sit down you have what's called um the after have what's called um the after have what's called um the after shivering because of the after drop and shivering because of the after drop and shivering because of the after drop and it's not like it's it dangerous or it's not like it's it dangerous or it's not like it's it dangerous or anything it could be just a bad anything it could be just a bad anything it could be just a bad experience so just keep moving what do experience so just keep moving what do experience so just keep moving what do you yeah how would you suggest people you yeah how would you suggest people you yeah how would you suggest people time their cold and heat exposure and time their cold and heat exposure and time their cold and heat exposure and specifically what I'm asking is I know specifically what I'm asking is I know specifically what I'm asking is I know you mentioned don't do cold after you mentioned don't do cold after you mentioned don't do cold after training and do hot after training training and do hot after training training and do hot after training specifically what I'm asking though is specifically what I'm asking though is specifically what I'm asking though is there's some people talking about the there's some people talking about the there's some people talking about the benefits of heat and cold exposure benefits of heat and cold exposure benefits of heat and cold exposure before sleep and I if you have any before sleep and I if you have any before sleep and I if you have any experience with that any insight on the experience with that any insight on the experience with that any insight on the research and ultimately how we would research and ultimately how we would research and ultimately how we would utilize it to to improve our deep sleep utilize it to to improve our deep sleep utilize it to to improve our deep sleep yeah so we we don't really have any

49:00yeah so we we don't really have any yeah so we we don't really have any research completely stating that if you research completely stating that if you research completely stating that if you don't uh if you do cold water plunges don't uh if you do cold water plunges don't uh if you do cold water plunges before bedtime then you cannot sleep but before bedtime then you cannot sleep but before bedtime then you cannot sleep but here we are maybe looking into what is here we are maybe looking into what is here we are maybe looking into what is maybe logic and what we know from maybe logic and what we know from maybe logic and what we know from research already is that when you when research already is that when you when research already is that when you when you expose yourself to a cop plune you you expose yourself to a cop plune you you expose yourself to a cop plune you will have an increase in your will have an increase in your will have an increase in your sympathetic nervous system sympathetic nervous system sympathetic nervous system and that's your fight andlight system and that's your fight andlight system and that's your fight andlight system and that is not how you you go to sleep and that is not how you you go to sleep and that is not how you you go to sleep so doing that right before going to so doing that right before going to so doing that right before going to sleep it might it might not be sleep it might it might not be sleep it might it might not be beneficial for you for falling asleep so beneficial for you for falling asleep so beneficial for you for falling asleep so it will keep you awake but what you it will keep you awake but what you it will keep you awake but what you could do is taking a SAA because SAA is could do is taking a SAA because SAA is could do is taking a SAA because SAA is going to relax you and you will feel going to relax you and you will feel going to relax you and you will feel more distressed and you have a a um more distressed and you have a a um more distressed and you have a a um lower heart rate after just one SAA lower heart rate after just one SAA lower heart rate after just one SAA session and that's going to help you you session and that's going to help you you session and that's going to help you you fall asleep and also because of the heat fall asleep and also because of the heat fall asleep and also because of the heat you would dump the heat afterwards and

50:00you would dump the heat afterwards and you would dump the heat afterwards and the core temperature would then drop and the core temperature would then drop and the core temperature would then drop and because the cold temperature drop you because the cold temperature drop you because the cold temperature drop you will have an easier time falling asleep will have an easier time falling asleep will have an easier time falling asleep and that is what sleep requires it and that is what sleep requires it and that is what sleep requires it actually requires a physical thing as actually requires a physical thing as actually requires a physical thing as your cold temperature to drop it's very your cold temperature to drop it's very your cold temperature to drop it's very funny but that's how it funny but that's how it funny but that's how it is so as of the for bed is so as of the for bed is so as of the for bed yeah that could be been and so I've yeah that could be been and so I've yeah that could be been and so I've trying some contrast therapies before trying some contrast therapies before trying some contrast therapies before bed like short duration cold and longer bed like short duration cold and longer bed like short duration cold and longer duration saas that seems to be really duration saas that seems to be really duration saas that seems to be really effective for me I'm not sure why it effective for me I'm not sure why it effective for me I'm not sure why it almost feels like it just puts in like almost feels like it just puts in like almost feels like it just puts in like puts in the you know the benefit of cold puts in the you know the benefit of cold puts in the you know the benefit of cold obviously being calming the mind and obviously being calming the mind and obviously being calming the mind and changing the the psychological state so changing the the psychological state so changing the the psychological state so like releasing the stresses of the day like releasing the stresses of the day like releasing the stresses of the day but then finishing on the sauna the hot but then finishing on the sauna the hot but then finishing on the sauna the hot the heat seems to put me in that relaxed the heat seems to put me in that relaxed the heat seems to put me in that relaxed state so as long as they finish with a state so as long as they finish with a state so as long as they finish with a nice extended sawt eye tend to get a nice extended sawt eye tend to get a nice extended sawt eye tend to get a really really good sleep I think we need really really good sleep I think we need really really good sleep I think we need more studies and that could be very more studies and that could be very more studies and that could be very interesting also that um it it doesn't

51:00interesting also that um it it doesn't interesting also that um it it doesn't affect me for example uh but what does affect me for example uh but what does affect me for example uh but what does affect me if I drink coffee after 5:00 affect me if I drink coffee after 5:00 affect me if I drink coffee after 5:00 so there might be some Pathways there so there might be some Pathways there so there might be some Pathways there that are not completely the same um and that are not completely the same um and that are not completely the same um and which would be very interesting to to which would be very interesting to to which would be very interesting to to study further because I sleep like a study further because I sleep like a study further because I sleep like a baby when I do my cold exposure and even baby when I do my cold exposure and even baby when I do my cold exposure and even if I do them after 7 o'clock so it could if I do them after 7 o'clock so it could if I do them after 7 o'clock so it could be that something else is going on and be that something else is going on and be that something else is going on and it's not comparable to a cup cup of it's not comparable to a cup cup of it's not comparable to a cup cup of coffee completely but it's it's also coffee completely but it's it's also coffee completely but it's it's also doing what a cup of coffee would do but doing what a cup of coffee would do but doing what a cup of coffee would do but I just don't feel uh as energized H and I just don't feel uh as energized H and I just don't feel uh as energized H and as I do if I drink coffee for example so as I do if I drink coffee for example so as I do if I drink coffee for example so it's it's kind of different in some ways it's it's kind of different in some ways it's it's kind of different in some ways I think it's yeah coffee would be very I think it's yeah coffee would be very I think it's yeah coffee would be very different from an adenosine pathway too different from an adenosine pathway too different from an adenosine pathway too right coffee is really working on the right coffee is really working on the right coffee is really working on the adenosine pathway and I don't think the adenosine pathway and I don't think the adenosine pathway and I don't think the cold that you get the adrenaline bump cold that you get the adrenaline bump cold that you get the adrenaline bump but not the idy yeah exactly that could but not the idy yeah exactly that could but not the idy yeah exactly that could also be one of the explanations at least also be one of the explanations at least also be one of the explanations at least I think that there's so much more we I think that there's so much more we I think that there's so much more we need to know about this and I'm very need to know about this and I'm very need to know about this and I'm very much looking forward to see what comes

52:00much looking forward to see what comes much looking forward to see what comes because exactly when to do this in the because exactly when to do this in the because exactly when to do this in the evening and in the morning we could evening and in the morning we could evening and in the morning we could definitely say do this but I think it definitely say do this but I think it definitely say do this but I think it could be interesting also to have some could be interesting also to have some could be interesting also to have some firm studies showing exactly why we firm studies showing exactly why we firm studies showing exactly why we should do it and more like yeah on the should do it and more like yeah on the should do it and more like yeah on the physiological level and biochemistry physiological level and biochemistry physiological level and biochemistry what happens but that's a nerdy thing I what happens but that's a nerdy thing I what happens but that's a nerdy thing I know but it's like it will be know but it's like it will be know but it's like it will be interesting interesting interesting yeah that's why we're here though thank yeah that's why we're here though thank yeah that's why we're here though thank you so much for making the time and for you so much for making the time and for you so much for making the time and for continuing to research stuff so that we continuing to research stuff so that we continuing to research stuff so that we can make effective decisions to improve can make effective decisions to improve can make effective decisions to improve our health I really appreciate you being our health I really appreciate you being our health I really appreciate you being here and and certainly for carving time here and and certainly for carving time here and and certainly for carving time from your busy schedule so thank you from your busy schedule so thank you from your busy schedule so thank you you're very you're very you're very welcome yeah can you tell our audience welcome yeah can you tell our audience welcome yeah can you tell our audience where they can reach you you want if you where they can reach you you want if you where they can reach you you want if you want to mention your social media or want to mention your social media or want to mention your social media or your website or anywhere else if you your website or anywhere else if you your website or anywhere else if you want to mention your course uh yeah so want to mention your course uh yeah so want to mention your course uh yeah so people can find me on social media I am people can find me on social media I am people can find me on social media I am on Instagram and where I think there are on Instagram and where I think there are on Instagram and where I think there are most active um I'm also on YouTube and most active um I'm also on YouTube and most active um I'm also on YouTube and Tik Tok and Facebook and whatever but I

53:00Tik Tok and Facebook and whatever but I Tik Tok and Facebook and whatever but I also have a website where people can also have a website where people can also have a website where people can find my courses and I have an upcoming find my courses and I have an upcoming find my courses and I have an upcoming education for practitioners so if you're education for practitioners so if you're education for practitioners so if you're a coach and you want to teach people how a coach and you want to teach people how a coach and you want to teach people how to use cold therapy heat therapy breath to use cold therapy heat therapy breath to use cold therapy heat therapy breath work then I have made an education for work then I have made an education for work then I have made an education for that amazing we'll link to that and that amazing we'll link to that and that amazing we'll link to that and everything else we talked about here in everything else we talked about here in everything else we talked about here in our show notes at Muslim our show notes at Muslim our show notes at Muslim intelligence.com podcast thank you for intelligence.com podcast thank you for intelligence.com podcast thank you for your time your time your time thanks for listening to the muscle thanks for listening to the muscle thanks for listening to the muscle intelligence podcast for full episode intelligence podcast for full episode intelligence podcast for full episode guides with important takeaways and guides with important takeaways and guides with important takeaways and bonus resources head over to muscle bonus resources head over to muscle bonus resources head over to muscle intelligence.com intelligence.com intelligence.com learn if you enjoy the show and find learn if you enjoy the show and find learn if you enjoy the show and find Value in the content Please Subscribe Value in the content Please Subscribe Value in the content Please Subscribe share this podcast with at least one share this podcast with at least one share this podcast with at least one person you know and love who would person you know and love who would person you know and love who would benefits from this content leave us a benefits from this content leave us a benefits from this content leave us a review and support our sponsors you can review and support our sponsors you can review and support our sponsors you can see the full list of show sponsors see the full list of show sponsors see the full list of show sponsors discounts and get exclusive muscle discounts and get exclusive muscle discounts and get exclusive muscle intelligence deals at muscle intelligence deals at muscle intelligence deals at muscle intelligence.com intelligence.com resources to join our private community resources to join our private community resources to join our private community and get VIP access to my master classes

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The Benefits of Cold and Heat Therapy for Performance with Dr Susanna S berg