The Science of Cold Water Immersion: A Path to Enhanced Recovery and Longevity - Full Transcript

00:00before we get started I have a quick before we get started I have a quick favor I've been self-funding the finding favor I've been self-funding the finding favor I've been self-funding the finding genius podcast for 5 years now I've done genius podcast for 5 years now I've done genius podcast for 5 years now I've done over 3,000 episodes and as you can see over 3,000 episodes and as you can see over 3,000 episodes and as you can see on YouTube we're up over a million views on YouTube we're up over a million views on YouTube we're up over a million views on the channel which is fantastic the on the channel which is fantastic the on the channel which is fantastic the next thing I really want to push on is next thing I really want to push on is next thing I really want to push on is to get up to 10,000 subscribers cuz once to get up to 10,000 subscribers cuz once to get up to 10,000 subscribers cuz once we do we'll be able to put a donate we do we'll be able to put a donate we do we'll be able to put a donate button and we'll be able to solicit button and we'll be able to solicit button and we'll be able to solicit donations to help keep the podcast donations to help keep the podcast donations to help keep the podcast running and to also get the finding running and to also get the finding running and to also get the finding genius Foundation moving along we have a genius Foundation moving along we have a genius Foundation moving along we have a big project studying anxiety depression big project studying anxiety depression big project studying anxiety depression and PTSD and working on a product to and PTSD and working on a product to and PTSD and working on a product to help people overcome these problems help people overcome these problems help people overcome these problems because I've seen them explode recently because I've seen them explode recently because I've seen them explode recently after the the last two years of the after the the last two years of the after the the last two years of the whole virus situation so if you would whole virus situation so if you would whole virus situation so if you would please subscribe to the podcast that please subscribe to the podcast that please subscribe to the podcast that would help us tremendously give us a would help us tremendously give us a would help us tremendously give us a thumbs up and check in the description thumbs up and check in the description thumbs up and check in the description for buy me a coffee it's about five for buy me a coffee it's about five for buy me a coffee it's about five bucks if you can buy me a coffee I'd bucks if you can buy me a coffee I'd bucks if you can buy me a coffee I'd really appreciate it would help keep the really appreciate it would help keep the really appreciate it would help keep the channel going and I love coffee thank channel going and I love coffee thank channel going and I love coffee thank you hi I'm Dr Jonathan Peak a senior you hi I'm Dr Jonathan Peak a senior you hi I'm Dr Jonathan Peak a senior lecturer and researcher at Queensland lecturer and researcher at Queensland lecturer and researcher at Queensland University in Brisbane Australia I'm University in Brisbane Australia I'm University in Brisbane Australia I'm looking forward to sharing my EXP looking forward to sharing my EXP looking forward to sharing my EXP expertise on post exercise recovery

01:00expertise on post exercise recovery expertise on post exercise recovery strategies tune into the finding genius strategies tune into the finding genius strategies tune into the finding genius podcast and you'll learn more about the podcast and you'll learn more about the podcast and you'll learn more about the truths and myths around cold water truths and myths around cold water truths and myths around cold water emersion after exercise forget emersion after exercise forget emersion after exercise forget frequently asked questions Common Sense frequently asked questions Common Sense frequently asked questions Common Sense common knowledge or Google how about common knowledge or Google how about common knowledge or Google how about advice from a Real Genius 95% of people advice from a Real Genius 95% of people advice from a Real Genius 95% of people in any profession are good enough to be in any profession are good enough to be in any profession are good enough to be qualified in licensed 5% go above above qualified in licensed 5% go above above qualified in licensed 5% go above above and beyond they become very good at what and beyond they become very good at what and beyond they become very good at what they do but only .1% are real genuses they do but only .1% are real genuses they do but only .1% are real genuses rich Jacobs has made it his life's rich Jacobs has made it his life's rich Jacobs has made it his life's mission to find them for you he hunts mission to find them for you he hunts mission to find them for you he hunts down and interviews Geniuses in every down and interviews Geniuses in every down and interviews Geniuses in every field sleep science cancer stem cells field sleep science cancer stem cells field sleep science cancer stem cells ketogenic diets and more here come the ketogenic diets and more here come the ketogenic diets and more here come the Geniuses this is the finding genius Geniuses this is the finding genius Geniuses this is the finding genius podcast with Richard Jacobs hello this is Richard Jacobs with Jacobs hello this is Richard Jacobs with the finding genius podcast uh my guest the finding genius podcast uh my guest the finding genius podcast uh my guest is Jonathan Peak Jonathan is a senior is Jonathan Peak Jonathan is a senior is Jonathan Peak Jonathan is a senior lecturer at the Queensland University of lecturer at the Queensland University of lecturer at the Queensland University of Technology in Australia uh we're going

02:00Technology in Australia uh we're going Technology in Australia uh we're going to talk about cold water immersion and to talk about cold water immersion and to talk about cold water immersion and how it affects recovery and inflammation how it affects recovery and inflammation how it affects recovery and inflammation so that promises to be very very so that promises to be very very so that promises to be very very interesting so Jonathan thanks for interesting so Jonathan thanks for interesting so Jonathan thanks for coming thanks for having me yeah well coming thanks for having me yeah well coming thanks for having me yeah well tell me a bit about your background and tell me a bit about your background and tell me a bit about your background and how did you get interested in this area how did you get interested in this area how did you get interested in this area so my background is in exercise so my background is in exercise so my background is in exercise physiology I have a PhD in exercise physiology I have a PhD in exercise physiology I have a PhD in exercise physiology and I'm a keen athlete myself physiology and I'm a keen athlete myself physiology and I'm a keen athlete myself I've always had a very keen interest in I've always had a very keen interest in I've always had a very keen interest in exercising the immune system and exercising the immune system and exercising the immune system and exercise of stress more generally and exercise of stress more generally and exercise of stress more generally and over the past 10 15 years also my over the past 10 15 years also my over the past 10 15 years also my research is focused on post exercise research is focused on post exercise research is focused on post exercise recovery strategies so what can athletes recovery strategies so what can athletes recovery strategies so what can athletes do after exercise to promote recovery do after exercise to promote recovery do after exercise to promote recovery and I guess what one of the areas we've and I guess what one of the areas we've and I guess what one of the areas we've focused on in particular is effects of focused on in particular is effects of focused on in particular is effects of cold water immersion on that um recovery cold water immersion on that um recovery cold water immersion on that um recovery process after exercise and extending process after exercise and extending process after exercise and extending that out a little bit um how does the that out a little bit um how does the that out a little bit um how does the how does regular cold water immersion how does regular cold water immersion how does regular cold water immersion affect long-term adaptation to training affect long-term adaptation to training affect long-term adaptation to training well is this just cold water immersion well is this just cold water immersion well is this just cold water immersion or is this contrast you know hot cold or is this contrast you know hot cold or is this contrast you know hot cold hot cold like you know can give me some

03:00hot cold like you know can give me some hot cold like you know can give me some details on what kind of Protocols are details on what kind of Protocols are details on what kind of Protocols are out there yeah look we we've only out there yeah look we we've only out there yeah look we we've only focused on cold water immersion there focused on cold water immersion there focused on cold water immersion there are other other options out there as you are other other options out there as you are other other options out there as you alluded to there um contrast meaning alluded to there um contrast meaning alluded to there um contrast meaning moving between hot and cold water and moving between hot and cold water and moving between hot and cold water and also hot water but most of my work has also hot water but most of my work has also hot water but most of my work has focused on cold water so we've we've focused on cold water so we've we've focused on cold water so we've we've typically followed protocols that were typically followed protocols that were typically followed protocols that were developed originally at the Australian developed originally at the Australian developed originally at the Australian Institute of sport down in CRA and we've Institute of sport down in CRA and we've Institute of sport down in CRA and we've adapted those protocols to some degree adapted those protocols to some degree adapted those protocols to some degree to suit the local climate here in to suit the local climate here in to suit the local climate here in Queensland we live in a a fairly Queensland we live in a a fairly Queensland we live in a a fairly subtropical climate here in Queensland subtropical climate here in Queensland subtropical climate here in Queensland so that sort of necessitated adjusting so that sort of necessitated adjusting so that sort of necessitated adjusting the water temperature to levels that the water temperature to levels that the water temperature to levels that were more tolerable for summertime were more tolerable for summertime were more tolerable for summertime conditions for for Queensland athletes conditions for for Queensland athletes conditions for for Queensland athletes what does that mean what what does that what does that mean what what does that what does that mean what what does that mean you don't go as cold as other mean you don't go as cold as other mean you don't go as cold as other conditions I don't understand the re conditions I don't understand the re conditions I don't understand the re researchers and practitioners at the researchers and practitioners at the researchers and practitioners at the Australian Institute of sport originally Australian Institute of sport originally Australian Institute of sport originally started out using immersion at about 14° started out using immersion at about 14° started out using immersion at about 14° celsus because that was the that was the celsus because that was the that was the celsus because that was the that was the minimum temperature that um athletes in minimum temperature that um athletes in minimum temperature that um athletes in camber could tolerate camber has a a camber could tolerate camber has a a camber could tolerate camber has a a colder climate um than than Brisbane or

04:00colder climate um than than Brisbane or colder climate um than than Brisbane or Queensland so practitioners and Queensland so practitioners and Queensland so practitioners and researchers at um our local state researchers at um our local state researchers at um our local state Sporting Academy Queensland Academy of Sporting Academy Queensland Academy of Sporting Academy Queensland Academy of sport uh adapted the protocols from the sport uh adapted the protocols from the sport uh adapted the protocols from the Australian Institute of sport and Australian Institute of sport and Australian Institute of sport and reduced the temperature to 10° Celsius reduced the temperature to 10° Celsius reduced the temperature to 10° Celsius because they felt that that was at the because they felt that that was at the because they felt that that was at the time they were thinking you know colder time they were thinking you know colder time they were thinking you know colder is better we now know that that's may is better we now know that that's may is better we now know that that's may not be the case but that's the protocol not be the case but that's the protocol not be the case but that's the protocol that has been used at the Queens sand that has been used at the Queens sand that has been used at the Queens sand Academy Sport for for some time and what Academy Sport for for some time and what Academy Sport for for some time and what does this mean tolerate like you know does this mean tolerate like you know does this mean tolerate like you know done this whole past winter I've done done this whole past winter I've done done this whole past winter I've done you know hot cold hot cold I got down to you know hot cold hot cold I got down to you know hot cold hot cold I got down to like I'm using it in Fahrenheit but I like I'm using it in Fahrenheit but I like I'm using it in Fahrenheit but I guess Celsius I got down to like maybe 5 guess Celsius I got down to like maybe 5 guess Celsius I got down to like maybe 5 to 7° Celsius you know the water to 7° Celsius you know the water to 7° Celsius you know the water temperature and the effect I noticed is temperature and the effect I noticed is temperature and the effect I noticed is I just couldn't stay in as long like I just couldn't stay in as long like I just couldn't stay in as long like things would hurt so instead of you know things would hurt so instead of you know things would hurt so instead of you know at like 14 15c I could stay there for at like 14 15c I could stay there for at like 14 15c I could stay there for like five minutes no problem but when it like five minutes no problem but when it like five minutes no problem but when it got colder like you know five to 7ca it got colder like you know five to 7ca it got colder like you know five to 7ca it was like a minute a minute and a half was like a minute a minute and a half was like a minute a minute and a half but that was the difference I noticed but that was the difference I noticed but that was the difference I noticed like what did they notice with the uh like what did they notice with the uh like what did they notice with the uh the athletes when you say they they

05:00the athletes when you say they they the athletes when you say they they couldn't take it what does that mean I couldn't take it what does that mean I couldn't take it what does that mean I guess they wanted the athletes probably guess they wanted the athletes probably guess they wanted the athletes probably to stay in the water for at least 10 to stay in the water for at least 10 to stay in the water for at least 10 minutes and through a bit of trial and minutes and through a bit of trial and minutes and through a bit of trial and error I think similar to what you error I think similar to what you error I think similar to what you discovered they found that the athletes discovered they found that the athletes discovered they found that the athletes couldn't did didn't like staying in the couldn't did didn't like staying in the couldn't did didn't like staying in the water for much more than a few minutes water for much more than a few minutes water for much more than a few minutes if if the water was um less than 14° if if the water was um less than 14° if if the water was um less than 14° that's for the athletes based at the that's for the athletes based at the that's for the athletes based at the Australian Institute of sport town in Australian Institute of sport town in Australian Institute of sport town in CRA but here in Queensland because the CRA but here in Queensland because the CRA but here in Queensland because the you know the normal average annual you know the normal average annual you know the normal average annual temperature is a fibit height and what temperature is a fibit height and what temperature is a fibit height and what is is in cber and athletes are often is is in cber and athletes are often is is in cber and athletes are often training in hotter conditions we found training in hotter conditions we found training in hotter conditions we found that athletes preferred slightly colder that athletes preferred slightly colder that athletes preferred slightly colder conditions like they could tolerate they conditions like they could tolerate they conditions like they could tolerate they were more they were comfortable staying were more they were comfortable staying were more they were comfortable staying in a water for 10 minutes if the water in a water for 10 minutes if the water in a water for 10 minutes if the water was 10° C so there's a bit of a a happy was 10° C so there's a bit of a a happy was 10° C so there's a bit of a a happy medium there between how long you stay medium there between how long you stay medium there between how long you stay in the water and the water temperature in the water and the water temperature in the water and the water temperature itself well we just sign at 10 minutes itself well we just sign at 10 minutes itself well we just sign at 10 minutes like what are they trying to accomplish like what are they trying to accomplish like what are they trying to accomplish reduce inflammation you know make people reduce inflammation you know make people reduce inflammation you know make people just feel better more relaxed what were just feel better more relaxed what were just feel better more relaxed what were the reasons for the protocol who graft

06:00the reasons for the protocol who graft the reasons for the protocol who graft I think physical trainers have been I think physical trainers have been I think physical trainers have been using cold water immersion in their sort using cold water immersion in their sort using cold water immersion in their sort of cold world pools world pools for for of cold world pools world pools for for of cold world pools world pools for for many years and the the idea behind using many years and the the idea behind using many years and the the idea behind using cold water immersion sort of was based cold water immersion sort of was based cold water immersion sort of was based on three things first of all it was the on three things first of all it was the on three things first of all it was the hydrostatic pressure exerted by the hydrostatic pressure exerted by the hydrostatic pressure exerted by the water on the limbs uh which water on the limbs uh which water on the limbs uh which theoretically would cause some fluid theoretically would cause some fluid theoretically would cause some fluid shifts and fluid shifts that would shifts and fluid shifts that would shifts and fluid shifts that would benefit the post exercise recovery benefit the post exercise recovery benefit the post exercise recovery period and reduce swelling then the next period and reduce swelling then the next period and reduce swelling then the next thing uh was to look at the for for the thing uh was to look at the for for the thing uh was to look at the for for the cold water immersion to reduce muscle cold water immersion to reduce muscle cold water immersion to reduce muscle soreness so the idea was that by soreness so the idea was that by soreness so the idea was that by introducing a cold water that would introducing a cold water that would introducing a cold water that would stimulate pain sensitive nerves or stimulate pain sensitive nerves or stimulate pain sensitive nerves or reduce the activity or the the reduce the activity or the the reduce the activity or the the stimulation of pain sensitive nerves and stimulation of pain sensitive nerves and stimulation of pain sensitive nerves and therefore help to reduce delayed onet therefore help to reduce delayed onet therefore help to reduce delayed onet muscle sess and then the third basis for muscle sess and then the third basis for muscle sess and then the third basis for using cold water emerging was in an using cold water emerging was in an using cold water emerging was in an attempt to reduce inflammation so attempt to reduce inflammation so attempt to reduce inflammation so there's this thinking that when you have there's this thinking that when you have there's this thinking that when you have infiltration of white blood cells or infiltration of white blood cells or infiltration of white blood cells or lucites into muscle tissue after lucites into muscle tissue after lucites into muscle tissue after exercise to help repair some of the exercise to help repair some of the exercise to help repair some of the damaged muscle tis tissue there's a an

07:00damaged muscle tis tissue there's a an damaged muscle tis tissue there's a an Associated what we call a secondary Associated what we call a secondary Associated what we call a secondary inflammatory response which caused you inflammatory response which caused you inflammatory response which caused you know secondary tissue damage because of know secondary tissue damage because of know secondary tissue damage because of some activation of those white blood some activation of those white blood some activation of those white blood cells so the idea was that by using cold cells so the idea was that by using cold cells so the idea was that by using cold water ersion you would reduce the water ersion you would reduce the water ersion you would reduce the temperature of muscle tissue and temperature of muscle tissue and temperature of muscle tissue and therefore reduce the activity and therefore reduce the activity and therefore reduce the activity and Metabolism of these white blood cells Metabolism of these white blood cells Metabolism of these white blood cells and therefore potentially limit the and therefore potentially limit the and therefore potentially limit the amount of secondary muscle damage that amount of secondary muscle damage that amount of secondary muscle damage that would occur after exercise and therefore would occur after exercise and therefore would occur after exercise and therefore all three of those things theoretically all three of those things theoretically all three of those things theoretically would expedite the the post exercise would expedite the the post exercise would expedite the the post exercise recovery period so what are you studying recovery period so what are you studying recovery period so what are you studying people using these protocols they just people using these protocols they just people using these protocols they just haven't been Quantified or like what is haven't been Quantified or like what is haven't been Quantified or like what is your study about so we started out we've your study about so we started out we've your study about so we started out we've looked at a couple of main Avenues and looked at a couple of main Avenues and looked at a couple of main Avenues and cold water imersion we started out cold water imersion we started out cold water imersion we started out looking at the how the cold water how looking at the how the cold water how looking at the how the cold water how cold water immersion influences the cold water immersion influences the cold water immersion influences the parasympathetic nervous system so our parasympathetic nervous system so our parasympathetic nervous system so our parasympathetic nervous system is the parasympathetic nervous system is the parasympathetic nervous system is the the rest and digest branch of the the rest and digest branch of the the rest and digest branch of the nervous system the autonomic nervous nervous system the autonomic nervous nervous system the autonomic nervous system so it's responsible for reducing system so it's responsible for reducing system so it's responsible for reducing heart rate and we wanted to look at to heart rate and we wanted to look at to heart rate and we wanted to look at to see whether cold water immersion would

08:00see whether cold water immersion would see whether cold water immersion would benefit athletes in terms of making them benefit athletes in terms of making them benefit athletes in terms of making them feel more relaxed so we we did some feel more relaxed so we we did some feel more relaxed so we we did some studies looking at parasympathetic studies looking at parasympathetic studies looking at parasympathetic activation and By and By by that I mean activation and By and By by that I mean activation and By and By by that I mean we were measuring heart rate after we were measuring heart rate after we were measuring heart rate after exercise and what we found was that by exercise and what we found was that by exercise and what we found was that by doing cold water immersion after a bound doing cold water immersion after a bound doing cold water immersion after a bound of endurance exercise that helped to of endurance exercise that helped to of endurance exercise that helped to restore heart rate all rapidly and that restore heart rate all rapidly and that restore heart rate all rapidly and that was associated with feelings greater was associated with feelings greater was associated with feelings greater feeling and heart pings of relaxation feeling and heart pings of relaxation feeling and heart pings of relaxation after exercise so that was uh a after exercise so that was uh a after exercise so that was uh a potentially beneficial effect and that potentially beneficial effect and that potentially beneficial effect and that confirmed some of the existing confirmed some of the existing confirmed some of the existing literature that's been quite a literature that's been quite a literature that's been quite a consistent finding across the years that consistent finding across the years that consistent finding across the years that cold water immersion yeah makes athletes cold water immersion yeah makes athletes cold water immersion yeah makes athletes feel more relaxed in the post exercise feel more relaxed in the post exercise feel more relaxed in the post exercise recovery period from there I noticed recovery period from there I noticed recovery period from there I noticed when I've done that it it's again I feel when I've done that it it's again I feel when I've done that it it's again I feel a lot more relaxed usually actually I a lot more relaxed usually actually I a lot more relaxed usually actually I feel quite warm after I've done you know feel quite warm after I've done you know feel quite warm after I've done you know cold water immersion when it got really cold water immersion when it got really cold water immersion when it got really really cold I felt exceptionally warm it really cold I felt exceptionally warm it really cold I felt exceptionally warm it gave me kind of like an idea out how gave me kind of like an idea out how gave me kind of like an idea out how people that you know do mountain people that you know do mountain people that you know do mountain climbing and die of hypothermia you know climbing and die of hypothermia you know climbing and die of hypothermia you know why they tear their clothes off why they tear their clothes off why they tear their clothes off sometimes when they when it gets real

09:00sometimes when they when it gets real sometimes when they when it gets real bad is when it was at its coldest and I bad is when it was at its coldest and I bad is when it was at its coldest and I went in and it came out I was like hot went in and it came out I was like hot went in and it came out I was like hot and I thought fof man I'm generating and I thought fof man I'm generating and I thought fof man I'm generating like it it feels like I'm generating a like it it feels like I'm generating a like it it feels like I'm generating a ton of heat so it brought that to mind ton of heat so it brought that to mind ton of heat so it brought that to mind it was just interesting if you you know it was just interesting if you you know it was just interesting if you you know has there been studies again on has there been studies again on has there been studies again on depending on the length of exposure and depending on the length of exposure and depending on the length of exposure and the temperature um how the person feels the temperature um how the person feels the temperature um how the person feels like you know temperature regulation like you know temperature regulation like you know temperature regulation after that how they feel and how their after that how they feel and how their after that how they feel and how their body regulate I'm sure that had been body regulate I'm sure that had been body regulate I'm sure that had been studies it is a little bit outside my studies it is a little bit outside my studies it is a little bit outside my area of focus so I'm not entirely sure area of focus so I'm not entirely sure area of focus so I'm not entirely sure on not entirely across the findings from on not entirely across the findings from on not entirely across the findings from those particular studies but I would say those particular studies but I would say those particular studies but I would say this cold water immersion affects this cold water immersion affects this cold water immersion affects individuals differently so yeah individuals differently so yeah individuals differently so yeah different different people respond in different different people respond in different different people respond in different types of ways to to Cold War different types of ways to to Cold War different types of ways to to Cold War immersion and some people do exhibit immersion and some people do exhibit immersion and some people do exhibit some the extreme responses that um are some the extreme responses that um are some the extreme responses that um are perhaps a little bit unpredictable well perhaps a little bit unpredictable well perhaps a little bit unpredictable well what does that mean like what kind of what does that mean like what kind of what does that mean like what kind of things do people experience that are things do people experience that are things do people experience that are different what are some examples well different what are some examples well different what are some examples well just like what you were saying you know just like what you were saying you know just like what you were saying you know some some people that b up is the first some some people that b up is the first some some people that b up is the first story I've heard of um you know people story I've heard of um you know people story I've heard of um you know people take off their clothes because after a

10:00take off their clothes because after a take off their clothes because after a period of Cold War immersion they period of Cold War immersion they period of Cold War immersion they experience you know paradoxically a experience you know paradoxically a experience you know paradoxically a feeling of heat so yeah I I can't really feeling of heat so yeah I I can't really feeling of heat so yeah I I can't really explain the mechanisms behind that again explain the mechanisms behind that again explain the mechanisms behind that again it's it's a little bit outside my area it's it's a little bit outside my area it's it's a little bit outside my area yeah okay has just been tested just on yeah okay has just been tested just on yeah okay has just been tested just on athletes or on regular folks or is it athletes or on regular folks or is it athletes or on regular folks or is it just athletes after they have done a just athletes after they have done a just athletes after they have done a session of working out look most of the session of working out look most of the session of working out look most of the work on cold water imersion sort of been work on cold water imersion sort of been work on cold water imersion sort of been that um in the past you know sort of 10 that um in the past you know sort of 10 that um in the past you know sort of 10 to 15 years has been done on athletes to 15 years has been done on athletes to 15 years has been done on athletes because that's been the predominant because that's been the predominant because that's been the predominant Focus for people using cold water Focus for people using cold water Focus for people using cold water imersion is to recover from exercise but imersion is to recover from exercise but imersion is to recover from exercise but more recently in the last you know 5 to more recently in the last you know 5 to more recently in the last you know 5 to 10 years perhaps cold water immersion 10 years perhaps cold water immersion 10 years perhaps cold water immersion has joined sort of the some of the has joined sort of the some of the has joined sort of the some of the mainstream Health type treatments so the mainstream Health type treatments so the mainstream Health type treatments so the public is members of the public not not public is members of the public not not public is members of the public not not just athletes seem to be using cold just athletes seem to be using cold just athletes seem to be using cold water immersion and Ice BS in an effort water immersion and Ice BS in an effort water immersion and Ice BS in an effort to promote their health oh sorry what to promote their health oh sorry what to promote their health oh sorry what what about called showers versus what about called showers versus what about called showers versus immersion has that been studied in immersion has that been studied in immersion has that been studied in Fantastic look I don't know of any

11:00Fantastic look I don't know of any Fantastic look I don't know of any studies that have compared cold showers studies that have compared cold showers studies that have compared cold showers versus cold baths in a in a systematic versus cold baths in a in a systematic versus cold baths in a in a systematic type of way but as I said that the type of way but as I said that the type of way but as I said that the benefit one of the benefits of cold benefit one of the benefits of cold benefit one of the benefits of cold baths is that you're immersing more of baths is that you're immersing more of baths is that you're immersing more of the body in a larger volume of water and the body in a larger volume of water and the body in a larger volume of water and therefore potentially you're getting a therefore potentially you're getting a therefore potentially you're getting a greater hydrostatic effect so you're greater hydrostatic effect so you're greater hydrostatic effect so you're getting more pressure exerted by the getting more pressure exerted by the getting more pressure exerted by the water against the limbs of the body and water against the limbs of the body and water against the limbs of the body and that potentially causes some bical fluid that potentially causes some bical fluid that potentially causes some bical fluid shifts within the shifts within the shifts within the tissues before we continue I've been tissues before we continue I've been tissues before we continue I've been personally funding the finding genius personally funding the finding genius personally funding the finding genius podcast for 4 and a/2 years now which podcast for 4 and a/2 years now which podcast for 4 and a/2 years now which has led to 2700 plus interviews of has led to 2700 plus interviews of has led to 2700 plus interviews of clinicians researchers scientists CEOs clinicians researchers scientists CEOs clinicians researchers scientists CEOs and other amazing people who are working and other amazing people who are working and other amazing people who are working to advance science and improve our lives to advance science and improve our lives to advance science and improve our lives in our world even though this podcast in our world even though this podcast in our world even though this podcast gets 100,000 plus downloads a month we gets 100,000 plus downloads a month we gets 100,000 plus downloads a month we need your help to reach hundreds of need your help to reach hundreds of need your help to reach hundreds of thousands more worldwide please visit FY thousands more worldwide please visit FY thousands more worldwide please visit FY genius podcast.com and click on support genius podcast.com and click on support genius podcast.com and click on support us we have three levels of membership us we have three levels of membership us we have three levels of membership from $10 to $49 a month including perks from $10 to $49 a month including perks from $10 to $49 a month including perks such as the ability to see ahead in our

12:00such as the ability to see ahead in our such as the ability to see ahead in our interview calendar and ask questions of interview calendar and ask questions of interview calendar and ask questions of upcoming guests transcripts of podcasts upcoming guests transcripts of podcasts upcoming guests transcripts of podcasts you're interested in the ability to you're interested in the ability to you're interested in the ability to request specific topics or guests and request specific topics or guests and request specific topics or guests and more visit finding genius podcast.com more visit finding genius podcast.com more visit finding genius podcast.com and click support us today now back to and click support us today now back to and click support us today now back to the show yeah heat transfer components the show yeah heat transfer components the show yeah heat transfer components you know like in the shower I've you you know like in the shower I've you you know like in the shower I've you know I've done this that put the water know I've done this that put the water know I've done this that put the water really cold at the end so you can't have really cold at the end so you can't have really cold at the end so you can't have it all over your body at one point so I it all over your body at one point so I it all over your body at one point so I have head and neck and maybe shift to have head and neck and maybe shift to have head and neck and maybe shift to the back so it's you know again the heat the back so it's you know again the heat the back so it's you know again the heat transfer is is effective it's localized transfer is is effective it's localized transfer is is effective it's localized because it's water moving water against because it's water moving water against because it's water moving water against your skin but it's not your entire body your skin but it's not your entire body your skin but it's not your entire body at once so perhaps the rate of heat at once so perhaps the rate of heat at once so perhaps the rate of heat transfer is lower or again it's spot transfer is lower or again it's spot transfer is lower or again it's spot versus you know systemic over the whole versus you know systemic over the whole versus you know systemic over the whole body so I guess it would have different body so I guess it would have different body so I guess it would have different effect that's right yeah so as I said effect that's right yeah so as I said effect that's right yeah so as I said I'm not aware of any systematic studies I'm not aware of any systematic studies I'm not aware of any systematic studies that have compared you know the rate of that have compared you know the rate of that have compared you know the rate of change in body temperature muscle change in body temperature muscle change in body temperature muscle temperature comparing you know sitting temperature comparing you know sitting temperature comparing you know sitting in a cold bath versus having a a shower in a cold bath versus having a a shower in a cold bath versus having a a shower and water at the same temperature and water at the same temperature and water at the same temperature temperature but if I had to Hazard a

13:00temperature but if I had to Hazard a temperature but if I had to Hazard a guess I expect that yeah core guess I expect that yeah core guess I expect that yeah core temperature and muscle temperature would temperature and muscle temperature would temperature and muscle temperature would decrease more rapidly and be more decrease more rapidly and be more decrease more rapidly and be more sustained in response to sitting on a sustained in response to sitting on a sustained in response to sitting on a cold bath as opposed to h a cold share cold bath as opposed to h a cold share cold bath as opposed to h a cold share I've heard some people you know it's I've heard some people you know it's I've heard some people you know it's just anecdotal but some people at the just anecdotal but some people at the just anecdotal but some people at the gym I go to they're like oh you know gym I go to they're like oh you know gym I go to they're like oh you know when I did cold water immersion after when I did cold water immersion after when I did cold water immersion after working out it seems like it working out it seems like it working out it seems like it cannibalized my gains in the gym I guess cannibalized my gains in the gym I guess cannibalized my gains in the gym I guess I don't know there's this thought that I don't know there's this thought that I don't know there's this thought that if you do it too much or too often or if you do it too much or too often or if you do it too much or too often or for too long that it it actually impedes for too long that it it actually impedes for too long that it it actually impedes your ability to make gains have you your ability to make gains have you your ability to make gains have you heard anything like that yeah well we we heard anything like that yeah well we we heard anything like that yeah well we we we published some of the first original we published some of the first original we published some of the first original research to sort of establish that idea research to sort of establish that idea research to sort of establish that idea so yeah one of my students did uh a so yeah one of my students did uh a so yeah one of my students did uh a really nice training study in which he really nice training study in which he really nice training study in which he had two groups of athletes so but all had two groups of athletes so but all had two groups of athletes so but all the athletes did three months of the athletes did three months of the athletes did three months of strength training the gym and at the strength training the gym and at the strength training the gym and at the start of the study we measured their start of the study we measured their start of the study we measured their strength and we measured their muscle strength and we measured their muscle strength and we measured their muscle cross-sectional area and then they did cross-sectional area and then they did cross-sectional area and then they did three months of training so they were three months of training so they were three months of training so they were training twice a week in the gy gy a training twice a week in the gy gy a training twice a week in the gy gy a strength focus training and half the

14:00strength focus training and half the strength focus training and half the group did cold water immersion after group did cold water immersion after group did cold water immersion after their resistance training so they Sav a their resistance training so they Sav a their resistance training so they Sav a a cold water bath the 10 minutes at 10° a cold water bath the 10 minutes at 10° a cold water bath the 10 minutes at 10° C and then the other half of the group C and then the other half of the group C and then the other half of the group did what we call act recovery so did what we call act recovery so did what we call act recovery so basically they sat on a bicycle for 10 basically they sat on a bicycle for 10 basically they sat on a bicycle for 10 minutes and just pedal at a low minutes and just pedal at a low minutes and just pedal at a low intensity so that they did an active intensity so that they did an active intensity so that they did an active recovery we also took some muscle recovery we also took some muscle recovery we also took some muscle biopsies some small tissues s some small biopsies some small tissues s some small biopsies some small tissues s some small samples of muscle so at this at the end samples of muscle so at this at the end samples of muscle so at this at the end of the study we compared all these of the study we compared all these of the study we compared all these things between the cold water immersion things between the cold water immersion things between the cold water immersion group and the active Recovery Group and group and the active Recovery Group and group and the active Recovery Group and what we found was that the cold water what we found was that the cold water what we found was that the cold water immersion group both both groups gained immersion group both both groups gained immersion group both both groups gained muscle mass and both groups got stronger muscle mass and both groups got stronger muscle mass and both groups got stronger but the gains in muscle strength and but the gains in muscle strength and but the gains in muscle strength and muscle mass were smaller in the cold muscle mass were smaller in the cold muscle mass were smaller in the cold water immersion group compared with the water immersion group compared with the water immersion group compared with the active Recovery Group so to us that was active Recovery Group so to us that was active Recovery Group so to us that was a fairly indic clear indication that if a fairly indic clear indication that if a fairly indic clear indication that if athletes are in a phase of their athletes are in a phase of their athletes are in a phase of their training where they're looking to build training where they're looking to build training where they're looking to build muscle mass or they're in a hypertrophy muscle mass or they're in a hypertrophy muscle mass or they're in a hypertrophy phase that they're training then doing phase that they're training then doing phase that they're training then doing cold water immersion after every cold water immersion after every cold water immersion after every training session may not be beneficial

15:00training session may not be beneficial training session may not be beneficial so the spin that we put on it is that so the spin that we put on it is that so the spin that we put on it is that cold water immersion is perhaps not such cold water immersion is perhaps not such cold water immersion is perhaps not such a good idea during phases of the Season a good idea during phases of the Season a good idea during phases of the Season where athletes are looking to build where athletes are looking to build where athletes are looking to build muscle mass so perhaps the early to mid muscle mass so perhaps the early to mid muscle mass so perhaps the early to mid part of the season but during the later part of the season but during the later part of the season but during the later part of the season when they're sort of part of the season when they're sort of part of the season when they're sort of entering the competition phase when entering the competition phase when entering the competition phase when they're not so concerned about building they're not so concerned about building they're not so concerned about building muscle mass it's more about maintaining muscle mass it's more about maintaining muscle mass it's more about maintaining muscle mass and maintaining a fairly muscle mass and maintaining a fairly muscle mass and maintaining a fairly regular training intensity and training regular training intensity and training regular training intensity and training volume then and and also their um the volume then and and also their um the volume then and and also their um the frequency of their competition their frequency of their competition their frequency of their competition their games is increased at that phase of the games is increased at that phase of the games is increased at that phase of the Season then there's probably no harm in Season then there's probably no harm in Season then there's probably no harm in terms of doing cold water imersion after terms of doing cold water imersion after terms of doing cold water imersion after exercise so if you're looking for a exercise so if you're looking for a exercise so if you're looking for a quick turn around quick recovery between quick turn around quick recovery between quick turn around quick recovery between training sessions or between games and training sessions or between games and training sessions or between games and you're not concerned about building you're not concerned about building you're not concerned about building muscle mass only maintaining muscle mass muscle mass only maintaining muscle mass muscle mass only maintaining muscle mass then cold water ersion there there's then cold water ersion there there's then cold water ersion there there's certainly no harm in doing muscle mass certainly no harm in doing muscle mass certainly no harm in doing muscle mass but um sorry doing cold water imersion but um sorry doing cold water imersion but um sorry doing cold water imersion but that idea seems to have really but that idea seems to have really but that idea seems to have really entered the mainstream and people have entered the mainstream and people have entered the mainstream and people have um you know the everyday Weekend um you know the everyday Weekend um you know the everyday Weekend Warriors are pretty sort of set up and Warriors are pretty sort of set up and Warriors are pretty sort of set up and taken notice of of our research and

16:00taken notice of of our research and taken notice of of our research and several other groups around the world several other groups around the world several other groups around the world have been able to back up those back up have been able to back up those back up have been able to back up those back up our findings so we're fairly confident our findings so we're fairly confident our findings so we're fairly confident how how longitudal was your study you how how longitudal was your study you how how longitudal was your study you know maybe over a month you know the know maybe over a month you know the know maybe over a month you know the team that the people the cohort that team that the people the cohort that team that the people the cohort that doesn't do the immersion will make doesn't do the immersion will make doesn't do the immersion will make faster gains but maybe over six months faster gains but maybe over six months faster gains but maybe over six months at equalizing like how long was the at equalizing like how long was the at equalizing like how long was the study for over three month yeah so you study for over three month yeah so you study for over three month yeah so you saw like the effect persisted in both saw like the effect persisted in both saw like the effect persisted in both cohorts yeah so both both cohorts but cohorts yeah so both both cohorts but cohorts yeah so both both cohorts but the the group that did the um cold water the the group that did the um cold water the the group that did the um cold water ersion and the group that the active ersion and the group that the active ersion and the group that the active recovery they both gained muscle mass recovery they both gained muscle mass recovery they both gained muscle mass and they both gained strength so they and they both gained strength so they and they both gained strength so they both adapted well to to the training but both adapted well to to the training but both adapted well to to the training but the gains in muscle mass and muscle the gains in muscle mass and muscle the gains in muscle mass and muscle strength were smaller in the group that strength were smaller in the group that strength were smaller in the group that did the Cold Water immersion is there did the Cold Water immersion is there did the Cold Water immersion is there any you know countervailing benefits uh any you know countervailing benefits uh any you know countervailing benefits uh well as I said our research and and the well as I said our research and and the well as I said our research and and the work of quite a few others have shown work of quite a few others have shown work of quite a few others have shown you know these calming and relaxing you know these calming and relaxing you know these calming and relaxing effects of cold water imersion so effects of cold water imersion so effects of cold water imersion so certainly that's that's one potential certainly that's that's one potential certainly that's that's one potential benefit and and cold water Mission has benefit and and cold water Mission has benefit and and cold water Mission has also been consistently shown to reduce

17:00also been consistently shown to reduce also been consistently shown to reduce muscle sness the key here is probably muscle sness the key here is probably muscle sness the key here is probably when you do the muscle where when you do when you do the muscle where when you do when you do the muscle where when you do the cold water immersion after your the cold water immersion after your the cold water immersion after your exercise and how frequently you do it so exercise and how frequently you do it so exercise and how frequently you do it so in that first 3 to four hours after a in that first 3 to four hours after a in that first 3 to four hours after a gym session there are things going on in gym session there are things going on in gym session there are things going on in your muscles that are really important your muscles that are really important your muscles that are really important in terms of stimulating the muscle in terms of stimulating the muscle in terms of stimulating the muscle growth and repair tissue repair that are growth and repair tissue repair that are growth and repair tissue repair that are important for long-term adaptation important for long-term adaptation important for long-term adaptation across the weeks and months and we we we across the weeks and months and we we we across the weeks and months and we we we feel that if you're intervening during feel that if you're intervening during feel that if you're intervening during that period using cold water immersion that period using cold water immersion that period using cold water immersion then it may not be beneficial to do cold then it may not be beneficial to do cold then it may not be beneficial to do cold water immersion immediately after a Gym water immersion immediately after a Gym water immersion immediately after a Gym training session it might be better to training session it might be better to training session it might be better to leave a cold water immersion until maybe leave a cold water immersion until maybe leave a cold water immersion until maybe 3 4 hours even you know 6 hours 12 hours 3 4 hours even you know 6 hours 12 hours 3 4 hours even you know 6 hours 12 hours or 24 hours after a a gym session if or 24 hours after a a gym session if or 24 hours after a a gym session if you're interested in reducing muscle SCE you're interested in reducing muscle SCE you're interested in reducing muscle SCE what about doing it before a training what about doing it before a training what about doing it before a training session what that looked at we've also session what that looked at we've also session what that looked at we've also looked at that in a way in a way we we looked at that in a way in a way we we looked at that in a way in a way we we did a study looking at Cold War did a study looking at Cold War did a study looking at Cold War immersion between two B exercise so we immersion between two B exercise so we immersion between two B exercise so we were looking at track cyclists and we

18:00were looking at track cyclists and we were looking at track cyclists and we had them do a high-intensity b of had them do a high-intensity b of had them do a high-intensity b of exercise and then they did a session of exercise and then they did a session of exercise and then they did a session of cold water immersion and then did the cold water immersion and then did the cold water immersion and then did the same high-intensity bout of exercise and same high-intensity bout of exercise and same high-intensity bout of exercise and we found that uh they did not perform as we found that uh they did not perform as we found that uh they did not perform as well on the second bout of exercise so I well on the second bout of exercise so I well on the second bout of exercise so I I think doing cold water immersion I think doing cold water immersion I think doing cold water immersion before about of intense exercise is before about of intense exercise is before about of intense exercise is probably not a good idea because you're probably not a good idea because you're probably not a good idea because you're reducing blood flow you're reducing reducing blood flow you're reducing reducing blood flow you're reducing muscle temperature you're reducing muscle temperature you're reducing muscle temperature you're reducing muscle metabolism and none of those muscle metabolism and none of those muscle metabolism and none of those things are necessarily going to be things are necessarily going to be things are necessarily going to be beneficial for you to you know get the beneficial for you to you know get the beneficial for you to you know get the most out of your Gym training session most out of your Gym training session most out of your Gym training session the best timing to do your cult water the best timing to do your cult water the best timing to do your cult water immersion might be 3 4 hours after at immersion might be 3 4 hours after at immersion might be 3 4 hours after at least 3 or four hours after a gym least 3 or four hours after a gym least 3 or four hours after a gym session okay so before it looks like session okay so before it looks like session okay so before it looks like it's it would not be beneficial at all it's it would not be beneficial at all it's it would not be beneficial at all be detrimental probably yeah a definely be detrimental probably yeah a definely be detrimental probably yeah a definely yeah I don't think there's any question yeah I don't think there's any question yeah I don't think there's any question about that what about the uh did you about that what about the uh did you about that what about the uh did you split the corts into canbera versus uh I split the corts into canbera versus uh I split the corts into canbera versus uh I think it was Queensland what the other think it was Queensland what the other think it was Queensland what the other one you know saying the temperature is one you know saying the temperature is one you know saying the temperature is more extreme or the the temperature at more extreme or the the temperature at more extreme or the the temperature at which athletes you know condition them which athletes you know condition them which athletes you know condition them themselves in hbur I think was less on

19:00themselves in hbur I think was less on themselves in hbur I think was less on average like did you notice the average like did you notice the average like did you notice the difference there was that looked at uh difference there was that looked at uh difference there was that looked at uh well we we haven't done that particular well we we haven't done that particular well we we haven't done that particular study looking at um athlete tolerance study looking at um athlete tolerance study looking at um athlete tolerance and differences in temperature and and and differences in temperature and and and differences in temperature and and how that water temperature influences how that water temperature influences how that water temperature influences training adaptation most of the studies training adaptation most of the studies training adaptation most of the studies that have shown that negative effect of that have shown that negative effect of that have shown that negative effect of regular Cold War immersion on long-term regular Cold War immersion on long-term regular Cold War immersion on long-term training adaptation have typically used training adaptation have typically used training adaptation have typically used um cold water at about that 10 degrees um cold water at about that 10 degrees um cold water at about that 10 degrees Celsius like yeah I mean well when Celsius like yeah I mean well when Celsius like yeah I mean well when people do ice then it's you maybe not people do ice then it's you maybe not people do ice then it's you maybe not zero C or maybe maybe even lower what zero C or maybe maybe even lower what zero C or maybe maybe even lower what about athletes that have done literally about athletes that have done literally about athletes that have done literally ice bath sit in the trough with a bunch ice bath sit in the trough with a bunch ice bath sit in the trough with a bunch of ice and a bunch of water I mean they of ice and a bunch of water I mean they of ice and a bunch of water I mean they seriously yeah yeah look I mean I think seriously yeah yeah look I mean I think seriously yeah yeah look I mean I think that's probably going to influence it's that's probably going to influence it's that's probably going to influence it's well almost certainly going to reduce well almost certainly going to reduce well almost certainly going to reduce nozle soreness so that's that's probably nozle soreness so that's that's probably nozle soreness so that's that's probably going to be the main benefit for them going to be the main benefit for them going to be the main benefit for them whether it's so cold that it's becomes a whether it's so cold that it's becomes a whether it's so cold that it's becomes a noxious stimulus painful stimulus and noxious stimulus painful stimulus and noxious stimulus painful stimulus and therefore inter interferes with the therefore inter interferes with the therefore inter interferes with the nervous system and feelings of

20:00nervous system and feelings of nervous system and feelings of relaxation and Recovery I couldn't relaxation and Recovery I couldn't relaxation and Recovery I couldn't really say but I I think out there in really say but I I think out there in really say but I I think out there in sort of in the nonathletic population sort of in the nonathletic population sort of in the nonathletic population more general public population is this more general public population is this more general public population is this sort of warrior at perception that you sort of warrior at perception that you sort of warrior at perception that you know go C where is better but in reality know go C where is better but in reality know go C where is better but in reality I think there's probably some some I think there's probably some some I think there's probably some some threshold there and as I said it's going threshold there and as I said it's going threshold there and as I said it's going to depend on the individual too um and to depend on the individual too um and to depend on the individual too um and what their experience is with their what their experience is with their what their experience is with their previous experiences with cold water previous experiences with cold water previous experiences with cold water imersion and their regular ambient imersion and their regular ambient imersion and their regular ambient environment like um like like you environment like um like like you environment like um like like you differences between parts of Australia differences between parts of Australia differences between parts of Australia in terms of Tolerance of cold water yeah in terms of Tolerance of cold water yeah in terms of Tolerance of cold water yeah well I mean the adaptation is you know well I mean the adaptation is you know well I mean the adaptation is you know if you're used to it versus not now I if you're used to it versus not now I if you're used to it versus not now I know why it's so dangerous for people know why it's so dangerous for people know why it's so dangerous for people that aren't used to it to be exposed that aren't used to it to be exposed that aren't used to it to be exposed suddenly to cold like when when I first suddenly to cold like when when I first suddenly to cold like when when I first started I was like you know I couldn't started I was like you know I couldn't started I was like you know I couldn't control my breathing and it was like oh control my breathing and it was like oh control my breathing and it was like oh it was really bad but then I I went it was really bad but then I I went it was really bad but then I I went through uh you know I did it like three through uh you know I did it like three through uh you know I did it like three or four times a week throughout the or four times a week throughout the or four times a week throughout the whole winter and it got colder and whole winter and it got colder and whole winter and it got colder and colder and colder and then it was not a colder and colder and then it was not a colder and colder and then it was not a big deal to tolerate you know I was able big deal to tolerate you know I was able big deal to tolerate you know I was able to go into like I said like really

21:00to go into like I said like really to go into like I said like really really cold water that before I wouldn't really cold water that before I wouldn't really cold water that before I wouldn't have at all um and it wasn't so bad so have at all um and it wasn't so bad so have at all um and it wasn't so bad so there's like a conditioning element from there's like a conditioning element from there's like a conditioning element from what I can see but yeah for most folks what I can see but yeah for most folks what I can see but yeah for most folks now I understand like if you're going to now I understand like if you're going to now I understand like if you're going to swim in the ocean for instance I would swim in the ocean for instance I would swim in the ocean for instance I would think for most people that are not think for most people that are not think for most people that are not prepared it would be very dangerous for prepared it would be very dangerous for prepared it would be very dangerous for them to go in if the water is less than them to go in if the water is less than them to go in if the water is less than like like 15c or less because they would like like 15c or less because they would like like 15c or less because they would like go into shock you know they like go into shock you know they like go into shock you know they probably couldn't recover you know in a probably couldn't recover you know in a probably couldn't recover you know in a card cardiovascular sense and then just card cardiovascular sense and then just card cardiovascular sense and then just an immersion too like you got to kind of an immersion too like you got to kind of an immersion too like you got to kind of seems like you got to go slow with it seems like you got to go slow with it seems like you got to go slow with it you know if you just literally jump in you know if you just literally jump in you know if you just literally jump in into freezing freezing freezing water I into freezing freezing freezing water I into freezing freezing freezing water I don't think you could tolerate it well don't think you could tolerate it well don't think you could tolerate it well no I I I would agree with that and no I I I would agree with that and no I I I would agree with that and particularly people who have existing particularly people who have existing particularly people who have existing cardiovascular conditions um cardiovascular conditions um cardiovascular conditions um hypertension cardiovascular disease then hypertension cardiovascular disease then hypertension cardiovascular disease then yeah that they need to be particularly yeah that they need to be particularly yeah that they need to be particularly careful and you know probably seek some careful and you know probably seek some careful and you know probably seek some expert advice for medical doctor before expert advice for medical doctor before expert advice for medical doctor before they embark on that sort of thing but as they embark on that sort of thing but as they embark on that sort of thing but as you said there's certainly some you said there's certainly some you said there's certainly some conditioning benefits and and starting conditioning benefits and and starting conditioning benefits and and starting out either at doing cold water immersion

22:00out either at doing cold water immersion out either at doing cold water immersion for just a short period of time or at a for just a short period of time or at a for just a short period of time or at a slightly higher temperature rather than slightly higher temperature rather than slightly higher temperature rather than you know going straight in at 5° Celsius you know going straight in at 5° Celsius you know going straight in at 5° Celsius or less maybe starting out at 15° or less maybe starting out at 15° or less maybe starting out at 15° working you know 5 minutes at 15° and working you know 5 minutes at 15° and working you know 5 minutes at 15° and then you working up increasing the then you working up increasing the then you working up increasing the duration of your cold water immersion duration of your cold water immersion duration of your cold water immersion and reducing the uh the water and reducing the uh the water and reducing the uh the water temperature a little bit at the same temperature a little bit at the same temperature a little bit at the same time that's probably the safest way to time that's probably the safest way to time that's probably the safest way to go did you guys find a sweet spot you go did you guys find a sweet spot you go did you guys find a sweet spot you know again you mentioned this a bit but know again you mentioned this a bit but know again you mentioned this a bit but is there um a temperature below which is is there um a temperature below which is is there um a temperature below which is just it's just not necessary there's just it's just not necessary there's just it's just not necessary there's really no benefit yeah we we haven't really no benefit yeah we we haven't really no benefit yeah we we haven't done any systematic study studies done any systematic study studies done any systematic study studies ourselves all of our Studies have been ourselves all of our Studies have been ourselves all of our Studies have been performed at that level of about 10° C performed at that level of about 10° C performed at that level of about 10° C and I'd say probably 3/4s of the the the and I'd say probably 3/4s of the the the and I'd say probably 3/4s of the the the research around the world has been research around the world has been research around the world has been performed using that sort of um water performed using that sort of um water performed using that sort of um water temperature as well so I I think that temperature as well so I I think that temperature as well so I I think that that speaks for something in itself in that speaks for something in itself in that speaks for something in itself in that there are some systematic reviews that there are some systematic reviews that there are some systematic reviews which have compared responses across which have compared responses across which have compared responses across many many different studies and I think many many different studies and I think many many different studies and I think they have sort of Iden ified that you they have sort of Iden ified that you they have sort of Iden ified that you know 10 to 12° C seems to be about right

23:00know 10 to 12° C seems to be about right know 10 to 12° C seems to be about right for reducing body temperature and and for reducing body temperature and and for reducing body temperature and and reducing muscle temperature if that's reducing muscle temperature if that's reducing muscle temperature if that's that's your particular goal I'm not that's your particular goal I'm not that's your particular goal I'm not aware of too many studies that have gone aware of too many studies that have gone aware of too many studies that have gone much below 8° C and and part of the much below 8° C and and part of the much below 8° C and and part of the issue there is just a practical issue in issue there is just a practical issue in issue there is just a practical issue in terms of the equipment that we use the terms of the equipment that we use the terms of the equipment that we use the cooling devices called cooling devices cooling devices called cooling devices cooling devices called cooling devices that cool down the water temperature in that cool down the water temperature in that cool down the water temperature in the bath that we use for our research the bath that we use for our research the bath that we use for our research typically don't go much lower than 8° C typically don't go much lower than 8° C typically don't go much lower than 8° C whereas other people using ice bath just whereas other people using ice bath just whereas other people using ice bath just dump a whole lot of ice in there and dump a whole lot of ice in there and dump a whole lot of ice in there and water temperature could be anywhere water temperature could be anywhere water temperature could be anywhere between 2° C and 8 or 9° cus so they've between 2° C and 8 or 9° cus so they've between 2° C and 8 or 9° cus so they've got much less control over the water got much less control over the water got much less control over the water over the water temperature so in over the water temperature so in over the water temperature so in research we always like to control those research we always like to control those research we always like to control those sorts of variables so we get consistency sorts of variables so we get consistency sorts of variables so we get consistency between responses between individuals so between responses between individuals so between responses between individuals so yeah we we've typically focused on that yeah we we've typically focused on that yeah we we've typically focused on that 10° temperature and as I said systematic 10° temperature and as I said systematic 10° temperature and as I said systematic reviews seem to indicate that that's reviews seem to indicate that that's reviews seem to indicate that that's that's a sweet spot at least for that's a sweet spot at least for that's a sweet spot at least for reducing body temperature and and muscle reducing body temperature and and muscle reducing body temperature and and muscle temperature as for it its effect on

24:00temperature as for it its effect on temperature as for it its effect on other things like muscle soreness and other things like muscle soreness and other things like muscle soreness and feelings of relaxation and calmness I'm feelings of relaxation and calmness I'm feelings of relaxation and calmness I'm not sure that there's enough sort of not sure that there's enough sort of not sure that there's enough sort of consistency in the research to be able consistency in the research to be able consistency in the research to be able to make any firm conclusions about the to make any firm conclusions about the to make any firm conclusions about the optimum temperature to provide other optimum temperature to provide other optimum temperature to provide other benefits like those Beyond just benefits like those Beyond just benefits like those Beyond just producing body temperature in these producing body temperature in these producing body temperature in these studies too was the water circulating or studies too was the water circulating or studies too was the water circulating or was it still because I've also you know was it still because I've also you know was it still because I've also you know again in going in like the outdoor pool again in going in like the outdoor pool again in going in like the outdoor pool if you sit there and don't move a layer if you sit there and don't move a layer if you sit there and don't move a layer of warmer water develop around you and of warmer water develop around you and of warmer water develop around you and if you move back and forth It's like oh if you move back and forth It's like oh if you move back and forth It's like oh much colder you know so there could be a much colder you know so there could be a much colder you know so there could be a huge difference depending on whether the huge difference depending on whether the huge difference depending on whether the water is circulating or not yeah look water is circulating or not yeah look water is circulating or not yeah look the the equipment we used did have sort the the equipment we used did have sort the the equipment we used did have sort of a built-in circulatory mechanism um of a built-in circulatory mechanism um of a built-in circulatory mechanism um to keep the water mov because you did to keep the water mov because you did to keep the water mov because you did ride you if you're not moving the water ride you if you're not moving the water ride you if you're not moving the water then you do sort of build up a layer of then you do sort of build up a layer of then you do sort of build up a layer of insulation and it might only be you know insulation and it might only be you know insulation and it might only be you know quarter of an inch or or yeah half a quarter of an inch or or yeah half a quarter of an inch or or yeah half a centimeter or a centimeter wide for that centimeter or a centimeter wide for that centimeter or a centimeter wide for that insulation area but that's potentially insulation area but that's potentially insulation area but that's potentially enough to you know to mitigate the enough to you know to mitigate the enough to you know to mitigate the effect of cold water so yeah if you're

25:00effect of cold water so yeah if you're effect of cold water so yeah if you're looking to get the maximum benefits from looking to get the maximum benefits from looking to get the maximum benefits from cold water immersion um then it cold water immersion um then it cold water immersion um then it certainly pays to keep the water moving certainly pays to keep the water moving certainly pays to keep the water moving or keep your limbs moving a little bit or keep your limbs moving a little bit or keep your limbs moving a little bit to to to circulate that water well you to to to circulate that water well you to to to circulate that water well you could probably do things like this let's could probably do things like this let's could probably do things like this let's say the um I just oh I just I'm going to say the um I just oh I just I'm going to say the um I just oh I just I'm going to make up some stuff in Celsius so let's make up some stuff in Celsius so let's make up some stuff in Celsius so let's say the optimum appears to be 10 if it's say the optimum appears to be 10 if it's say the optimum appears to be 10 if it's noncirculating but you can go to like 13 noncirculating but you can go to like 13 noncirculating but you can go to like 13 which is more comfortable but if it's which is more comfortable but if it's which is more comfortable but if it's circulating quickly it'll still have the circulating quickly it'll still have the circulating quickly it'll still have the same effect because the heat transfer is same effect because the heat transfer is same effect because the heat transfer is so much greater you know still liquid so much greater you know still liquid so much greater you know still liquid versus a moving one so there's probably versus a moving one so there's probably versus a moving one so there's probably some optimization there where the person some optimization there where the person some optimization there where the person is not going to feel as much shock is not going to feel as much shock is not going to feel as much shock they'll still get the benefit you can they'll still get the benefit you can they'll still get the benefit you can still maximize heat transfer you know still maximize heat transfer you know still maximize heat transfer you know maybe you put a little bit of salt in it maybe you put a little bit of salt in it maybe you put a little bit of salt in it too so maybe at a 13 or 15 C with salt too so maybe at a 13 or 15 C with salt too so maybe at a 13 or 15 C with salt in it where it's circulating that's in it where it's circulating that's in it where it's circulating that's that's better than eight or 10c which is that's better than eight or 10c which is that's better than eight or 10c which is maybe harder to bear and it's you know maybe harder to bear and it's you know maybe harder to bear and it's you know the heat transfer is not maximized so I the heat transfer is not maximized so I the heat transfer is not maximized so I guess there's a lot of lever still to

26:00guess there's a lot of lever still to guess there's a lot of lever still to pull and to dry right I'd agree with pull and to dry right I'd agree with pull and to dry right I'd agree with that yeah for sure interesting okay so that yeah for sure interesting okay so that yeah for sure interesting okay so what are the next experiments that you what are the next experiments that you what are the next experiments that you you guys are working on where where are you guys are working on where where are you guys are working on where where are you going with this we have done some you going with this we have done some you going with this we have done some work on hot water immersion so an work on hot water immersion so an work on hot water immersion so an obvious question that sort of came up obvious question that sort of came up obvious question that sort of came up after we' finished our uh cold emersion after we' finished our uh cold emersion after we' finished our uh cold emersion studies was you know well if cold studies was you know well if cold studies was you know well if cold emersion is negative has potentially emersion is negative has potentially emersion is negative has potentially negative effect on training adaptation negative effect on training adaptation negative effect on training adaptation at least in terms of strength training at least in terms of strength training at least in terms of strength training adaptations then would Heat have um adaptations then would Heat have um adaptations then would Heat have um positive effects and unfort positive effects and unfort positive effects and unfort unfortunately in our hands the uh the unfortunately in our hands the uh the unfortunately in our hands the uh the effects of heat were not quite so effects of heat were not quite so effects of heat were not quite so conclusive we were doing some studies we conclusive we were doing some studies we conclusive we were doing some studies we s of effectively repeated what we've s of effectively repeated what we've s of effectively repeated what we've done with the cold water imion but did done with the cold water imion but did done with the cold water imion but did did the same studies in in hot water so did the same studies in in hot water so did the same studies in in hot water so we had our food sitting in a bath at we had our food sitting in a bath at we had our food sitting in a bath at about 42 43° Cel and the idea behind about 42 43° Cel and the idea behind about 42 43° Cel and the idea behind that was we wanted to give the maximum that was we wanted to give the maximum that was we wanted to give the maximum stimulus but what we found was ironic stimulus but what we found was ironic stimulus but what we found was ironic they the athletes actually felt a bit they the athletes actually felt a bit they the athletes actually felt a bit uncomfortable in that 43 42 43° Water

27:00uncomfortable in that 43 42 43° Water uncomfortable in that 43 42 43° Water they said they found it really hot and they said they found it really hot and they said they found it really hot and we sort of hypothesized that one we sort of hypothesized that one we sort of hypothesized that one potential mechanism put C prer results potential mechanism put C prer results potential mechanism put C prer results was that uh the hot water caused a was that uh the hot water caused a was that uh the hot water caused a stress response so it caused the release stress response so it caused the release stress response so it caused the release of stress hormones like cortisol and we of stress hormones like cortisol and we of stress hormones like cortisol and we know that cortisol is potentially it know that cortisol is potentially it know that cortisol is potentially it interferes with muscle training interferes with muscle training interferes with muscle training adaptations so potentially by doing you adaptations so potentially by doing you adaptations so potentially by doing you know hot water immersion really heating know hot water immersion really heating know hot water immersion really heating up the whole body then you're causing a up the whole body then you're causing a up the whole body then you're causing a systemic stress response which might systemic stress response which might systemic stress response which might interfere with with the training interfere with with the training interfere with with the training adaptations you're that you're trying to adaptations you're that you're trying to adaptations you're that you're trying to get so the mechanisms there are are get so the mechanisms there are are get so the mechanisms there are are quite different to to cold water quite different to to cold water quite different to to cold water immersion there may be other methods of immersion there may be other methods of immersion there may be other methods of heating that could be more beneficial so heating that could be more beneficial so heating that could be more beneficial so we used cold H sorry hot water immersion we used cold H sorry hot water immersion we used cold H sorry hot water immersion because that was the only sort of because that was the only sort of because that was the only sort of equipment that we had access to but equipment that we had access to but equipment that we had access to but other treatments like microwave dimy other treatments like microwave dimy other treatments like microwave dimy could potentially be more beneficial could potentially be more beneficial could potentially be more beneficial because what microwave diby does is that because what microwave diby does is that because what microwave diby does is that it penetrates the tissue the muscle it penetrates the tissue the muscle it penetrates the tissue the muscle tissue and heats up the muscle tissue tissue and heats up the muscle tissue tissue and heats up the muscle tissue issue without heating up the skin so issue without heating up the skin so issue without heating up the skin so you're getting deeper eating effects

28:00you're getting deeper eating effects you're getting deeper eating effects that might stimulate muscle metabolism that might stimulate muscle metabolism that might stimulate muscle metabolism um in a more positive way without um in a more positive way without um in a more positive way without individuals experiencing that sort of individuals experiencing that sort of individuals experiencing that sort of superficial and systemic discomfort that superficial and systemic discomfort that superficial and systemic discomfort that they would get with sitting in in in hot they would get with sitting in in in hot they would get with sitting in in in hot water and other other research has also water and other other research has also water and other other research has also shown that yeah hot water immersion shown that yeah hot water immersion shown that yeah hot water immersion could have benefits for populations with could have benefits for populations with could have benefits for populations with chronic disease so we know that hot chronic disease so we know that hot chronic disease so we know that hot water immersion stimulates the water immersion stimulates the water immersion stimulates the development of new mitochondria muscle development of new mitochondria muscle development of new mitochondria muscle and also so the formation of new and also so the formation of new and also so the formation of new capillaries and those two adaptations capillaries and those two adaptations capillaries and those two adaptations together improve blood flow or blood together improve blood flow or blood together improve blood flow or blood profusion of blood through muscle and profusion of blood through muscle and profusion of blood through muscle and also improve metabolism within the also improve metabolism within the also improve metabolism within the muscle so those those adaptations could muscle so those those adaptations could muscle so those those adaptations could be beneficial for people with diabetes be beneficial for people with diabetes be beneficial for people with diabetes Peripheral arterial disease some forms Peripheral arterial disease some forms Peripheral arterial disease some forms of cardiovascular disease and there's of cardiovascular disease and there's of cardiovascular disease and there's evidence now emerging that hot water evidence now emerging that hot water evidence now emerging that hot water immersion could be beneficial immersion could be beneficial immersion could be beneficial potentially for people with neur potentially for people with neur potentially for people with neur neurogenerative diseases like neurogenerative diseases like neurogenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and Dementia as well so I Alzheimer's and Dementia as well so I Alzheimer's and Dementia as well so I think you know there's there's probably think you know there's there's probably think you know there's there's probably better support now for the benefits of better support now for the benefits of better support now for the benefits of regular War to hot water immersion the

29:00regular War to hot water immersion the regular War to hot water immersion the jury is still out on you know ice baths jury is still out on you know ice baths jury is still out on you know ice baths and they they they continue to grow in and they they they continue to grow in and they they they continue to grow in popularity you see them a lot on social popularity you see them a lot on social popularity you see them a lot on social media a lot of social influencers using media a lot of social influencers using media a lot of social influencers using ice bars and people you obviously follow ice bars and people you obviously follow ice bars and people you obviously follow those people and follow what they do and those people and follow what they do and those people and follow what they do and the evidence around ice Barts Still the evidence around ice Barts Still the evidence around ice Barts Still Remains quite sort of anecdotal and Remains quite sort of anecdotal and Remains quite sort of anecdotal and hypothetical um people talk about hypothetical um people talk about hypothetical um people talk about improved glucose control and maybe improved glucose control and maybe improved glucose control and maybe coming off their medications for coming off their medications for coming off their medications for diabetes and anti-inflammatory effects diabetes and anti-inflammatory effects diabetes and anti-inflammatory effects and improving immunity there's a little and improving immunity there's a little and improving immunity there's a little bit of evidence there to to support bit of evidence there to to support bit of evidence there to to support those health benefits but there's not those health benefits but there's not those health benefits but there's not nearly enough evidence really to say nearly enough evidence really to say nearly enough evidence really to say that um ice baths is good for General that um ice baths is good for General that um ice baths is good for General Health yeah as opposed to post exercise Health yeah as opposed to post exercise Health yeah as opposed to post exercise recovery strategies for athletes to to recovery strategies for athletes to to recovery strategies for athletes to to stimulate training adaptation yeah okay stimulate training adaptation yeah okay stimulate training adaptation yeah okay well it sounds like there's a lot more well it sounds like there's a lot more well it sounds like there's a lot more experimentation to be done yeah experimentation to be done yeah experimentation to be done yeah definitely with all these different definitely with all these different definitely with all these different permutations you know if you do like you permutations you know if you do like you permutations you know if you do like you said if you eventually get into contrast said if you eventually get into contrast said if you eventually get into contrast how long for each which which one do you how long for each which which one do you how long for each which which one do you start on which one do you end on you start on which one do you end on you start on which one do you end on you know do you end on a hot do you end on a

30:00know do you end on a hot do you end on a know do you end on a hot do you end on a cold again what's the Delta and the cold again what's the Delta and the cold again what's the Delta and the temperatures you know the difference the temperatures you know the difference the temperatures you know the difference the length all that stuff so um a lot of length all that stuff so um a lot of length all that stuff so um a lot of questions to be answered I guess questions to be answered I guess questions to be answered I guess absolutely okay well very good where can absolutely okay well very good where can absolutely okay well very good where can people keep tabs on your work look I people keep tabs on your work look I people keep tabs on your work look I must be honest and so I'm not I don't must be honest and so I'm not I don't must be honest and so I'm not I don't have a big profile on um social media I have a big profile on um social media I have a big profile on um social media I I am on LinkedIn but I I hardly ever I am on LinkedIn but I I hardly ever I am on LinkedIn but I I hardly ever post anything on LinkedIn I have a post anything on LinkedIn I have a post anything on LinkedIn I have a website at my on my University I have website at my on my University I have website at my on my University I have staff profile my at my University staff profile my at my University staff profile my at my University website so yeah I guess if people are website so yeah I guess if people are website so yeah I guess if people are interested in in in looking up you know interested in in in looking up you know interested in in in looking up you know some of the stuff I've done they can go some of the stuff I've done they can go some of the stuff I've done they can go to my um university profile and there to my um university profile and there to my um university profile and there are papers that they can download there are papers that they can download there are papers that they can download there okay all right well very good well okay all right well very good well okay all right well very good well Jonathan thank you so much for coming on Jonathan thank you so much for coming on Jonathan thank you so much for coming on the podcast I really appreciate it my the podcast I really appreciate it my the podcast I really appreciate it my pleasure Richard if you like this pleasure Richard if you like this pleasure Richard if you like this podcast please click the link in the podcast please click the link in the podcast please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us description to subscribe and review us description to subscribe and review us on iTunes you've been listening to the iTunes you've been listening to the finding genius podcast with Richard finding genius podcast with Richard finding genius podcast with Richard Jacobs if you like what you hear be sure

31:00Jacobs if you like what you hear be sure Jacobs if you like what you hear be sure to review And subscribe to the finding to review And subscribe to the finding to review And subscribe to the finding genius podcast on iTunes or wherever you genius podcast on iTunes or wherever you genius podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts and want to be listen to podcasts and want to be listen to podcasts and want to be smarter than everybody else become a smarter than everybody else become a smarter than everybody else become a premium member at finding genius premium member at finding genius premium member at finding genius podcast.com this podcast is for podcast.com this podcast is for podcast.com this podcast is for information only no advice of any kind information only no advice of any kind information only no advice of any kind is being given any action you take or is being given any action you take or is being given any action you take or don't take as a result to listening is don't take as a result to listening is don't take as a result to listening is your sole responsibility consult your sole responsibility consult your sole responsibility consult professionals when advice is professionals when advice is professionals when advice is needed

Exercise Recovery Strategies How Cold Water Immersion Impacts The Human Body The