Ep 567 Cold Hot Therapy For Recovery 7 Day Fasts with Dr Brandon Roberts
00:00today we have a research review with our today we have a research review with our chief science officer here at taylor chief science officer here at taylor chief science officer here at taylor coaching method coaching method coaching method dr brandon roberts and we're going to dr brandon roberts and we're going to dr brandon roberts and we're going to dive into two specific topics the cool dive into two specific topics the cool dive into two specific topics the cool thing about this is one of them is a thing about this is one of them is a thing about this is one of them is a meta-analysis which means it is a meta-analysis which means it is a meta-analysis which means it is a cumulation cumulation cumulation of a lot of different studies so taking of a lot of different studies so taking of a lot of different studies so taking this huge pool of research this huge pool of research this huge pool of research and then boiling it down into one and then boiling it down into one and then boiling it down into one specific paper specific paper specific paper so we can kind of look at all the so we can kind of look at all the so we can kind of look at all the studies on this one topic and create a studies on this one topic and create a studies on this one topic and create a good conclusion of it good conclusion of it good conclusion of it and the meta-analysis that he reviewed and the meta-analysis that he reviewed and the meta-analysis that he reviewed and this one was all about cold and hot and this one was all about cold and hot and this one was all about cold and hot therapy to prevent or reduce therapy to prevent or reduce therapy to prevent or reduce doms dom's being delayed onset muscle doms dom's being delayed onset muscle doms dom's being delayed onset muscle soreness soreness soreness so this is the thing where you go train so this is the thing where you go train so this is the thing where you go train really hard and then a couple days later really hard and then a couple days later really hard and then a couple days later you're just you're just you're just terribly sore does an ice bath help does terribly sore does an ice bath help does terribly sore does an ice bath help does a cold plunge help does a cold shower a cold plunge help does a cold shower a cold plunge help does a cold shower help does help does help does a heating pad help when does it help a heating pad help when does it help a heating pad help when does it help should you do it right after should you should you do it right after should you should you do it right after should you do it days later how much does it help do it days later how much does it help do it days later how much does it help does it have any negative consequences does it have any negative consequences does it have any negative consequences maybe uh so we dive into this and we maybe uh so we dive into this and we maybe uh so we dive into this and we dive into a bunch of random topics after dive into a bunch of random topics after dive into a bunch of random topics after that like whim hof and cold showers and that like whim hof and cold showers and that like whim hof and cold showers and recovery and hypertrophy recovery and hypertrophy recovery and hypertrophy a ton of different things that's going
01:00a ton of different things that's going a ton of different things that's going to be really really applicable for to be really really applicable for to be really really applicable for anybody who does experience doms or has anybody who does experience doms or has anybody who does experience doms or has clients clients clients who experiences doms and the second who experiences doms and the second who experiences doms and the second study was on a seven study was on a seven study was on a seven day fasting retreat so we're actually day fasting retreat so we're actually day fasting retreat so we're actually looking at what happens to your body on looking at what happens to your body on looking at what happens to your body on a physiological level and a physiological level and a physiological level and with fat loss if any fat loss in a seven with fat loss if any fat loss in a seven with fat loss if any fat loss in a seven day fasting period so you don't eat for day fasting period so you don't eat for day fasting period so you don't eat for seven full days it's a long fast does seven full days it's a long fast does seven full days it's a long fast does that have any benefits we're gonna dive that have any benefits we're gonna dive that have any benefits we're gonna dive into that and much more today into that and much more today into that and much more today as always we do these research reviews as always we do these research reviews as always we do these research reviews every single month so if you want to every single month so if you want to every single month so if you want to check out the blog and the written check out the blog and the written check out the blog and the written version to get the the graphs and version to get the the graphs and version to get the the graphs and brandon really diving deep into the text brandon really diving deep into the text brandon really diving deep into the text version of this version of this version of this there's a link in the show notes of the there's a link in the show notes of the there's a link in the show notes of the podcast to check out the blog otherwise podcast to check out the blog otherwise podcast to check out the blog otherwise stay tuned listen up take some notes i stay tuned listen up take some notes i stay tuned listen up take some notes i hope you guys enjoy this and if you like hope you guys enjoy this and if you like hope you guys enjoy this and if you like this podcast do me a huge favor this podcast do me a huge favor this podcast do me a huge favor subscribe on itunes subscribe on youtube subscribe on itunes subscribe on youtube subscribe on itunes subscribe on youtube you got to check both out wherever you got to check both out wherever you got to check both out wherever you're listening to this you're listening to this you're listening to this the link for the other channel is going the link for the other channel is going the link for the other channel is going to be in the show notes so do us a huge to be in the show notes so do us a huge to be in the show notes so do us a huge favor and hit subscribe favor and hit subscribe favor and hit subscribe and make sure you get notified every and make sure you get notified every and make sure you get notified every time we drop a new episode without any time we drop a new episode without any time we drop a new episode without any further ado further ado further ado let's get into this research roundup let's get into this research roundup let's get into this research roundup with dr brandon roberts with dr brandon roberts with dr brandon roberts all right dude let's get into this
02:00all right dude let's get into this all right dude let's get into this month's research roundup month's research roundup month's research roundup um you know what i thought about this um you know what i thought about this um you know what i thought about this the other day the other day the other day are we calling a research review or are we calling a research review or are we calling a research review or research roundup because i i feel like i research roundup because i i feel like i research roundup because i i feel like i change what i call it every time change what i call it every time change what i call it every time i'm not going to say that you change i'm not going to say that you change i'm not going to say that you change what you call it every time because i what you call it every time because i what you call it every time because i might also do that might also do that might also do that so we're going to call it i don't know so we're going to call it i don't know so we're going to call it i don't know decide whatever you want i don't care decide whatever you want i don't care decide whatever you want i don't care i think like i didn't want to call it i think like i didn't want to call it i think like i didn't want to call it research review at first because there's research review at first because there's research review at first because there's so many research reviews so many research reviews so many research reviews but then i started noticing the research but then i started noticing the research but then i started noticing the research reviewers put out research roundups reviewers put out research roundups reviewers put out research roundups which were there like free versions which were there like free versions which were there like free versions of research reviewing the research of research reviewing the research of research reviewing the research studies that they didn't put in their studies that they didn't put in their studies that they didn't put in their research review research review research review and so then i think i changed it but i and so then i think i changed it but i and so then i think i changed it but i might have been following you because i might have been following you because i might have been following you because i might have might have might have read you yeah i don't know one of us is read you yeah i don't know one of us is read you yeah i don't know one of us is doing it first and then the other one is doing it first and then the other one is doing it first and then the other one is just following suit which is fine either just following suit which is fine either just following suit which is fine either way we're gonna way we're gonna way we're gonna talk about research and we're gonna talk about research and we're gonna talk about research and we're gonna review and round it up review and round it up review and round it up and that's all that matters yeah so um and that's all that matters yeah so um and that's all that matters yeah so um perfect so if you're listening this perfect so if you're listening this perfect so if you're listening this right now there's probably a blog right now there's probably a blog right now there's probably a blog version out version out version out it either comes out the day before or it either comes out the day before or it either comes out the day before or the day after i should probably have the day after i should probably have the day after i should probably have that formally scheduled but sorry
03:00that formally scheduled but sorry that formally scheduled but sorry listener i don't so listener i don't so listener i don't so um if there's a link in the show notes um if there's a link in the show notes um if there's a link in the show notes it's our it's go check it out if not it's our it's go check it out if not it's our it's go check it out if not check the taylor coaching blog tomorrow check the taylor coaching blog tomorrow check the taylor coaching blog tomorrow but either way the same week that this but either way the same week that this but either way the same week that this drops the blog will drop drops the blog will drop drops the blog will drop and it is this in writing so if you like and it is this in writing so if you like and it is this in writing so if you like seeing seeing seeing brandon articulate the text and the brandon articulate the text and the brandon articulate the text and the graphs and all those kind of things graphs and all those kind of things graphs and all those kind of things dive into that obviously and you can get dive into that obviously and you can get dive into that obviously and you can get that side of it that side of it that side of it otherwise listen to this podcast and otherwise listen to this podcast and otherwise listen to this podcast and we're going to dive into it all we're going to dive into it all we're going to dive into it all so i'll let you take it away give us so i'll let you take it away give us so i'll let you take it away give us your first study and then uh your first study and then uh your first study and then uh i'll kind of start picking your brain on i'll kind of start picking your brain on i'll kind of start picking your brain on it man yeah it man yeah it man yeah so the first study is on uh doms and so the first study is on uh doms and so the first study is on uh doms and heat and cold therapy um heat and cold therapy um heat and cold therapy um i actually have mad doms right now from i actually have mad doms right now from i actually have mad doms right now from my training this week my training this week my training this week so i was i was revisiting this article so i was i was revisiting this article so i was i was revisiting this article and i was like man i didn't even use ice and i was like man i didn't even use ice and i was like man i didn't even use ice or cold or heat or anything or cold or heat or anything or cold or heat or anything but what this is is basically a big but what this is is basically a big but what this is is basically a big study study study so meta analysis synthesizes and so meta analysis synthesizes and so meta analysis synthesizes and analyzes all the literature analyzes all the literature analyzes all the literature around one topic the more specific the around one topic the more specific the around one topic the more specific the better uh in this case it was doms like
04:00better uh in this case it was doms like better uh in this case it was doms like how do things affect doms and how do things affect doms and how do things affect doms and the two interventions were heat or cold the two interventions were heat or cold the two interventions were heat or cold therapy therapy therapy now when they analyzed the literature now when they analyzed the literature now when they analyzed the literature they were a little bit uh liberal they were a little bit uh liberal they were a little bit uh liberal with their choice of heat and cold with their choice of heat and cold with their choice of heat and cold therapy because there's everything in therapy because there's everything in therapy because there's everything in here from here from here from uh cold water baths to uh cold water baths to uh cold water baths to the cryotherapy to like heat the cryotherapy to like heat the cryotherapy to like heat saunas infrared radiation like there's saunas infrared radiation like there's saunas infrared radiation like there's like everything like everything like everything that classifies as heat or cold is in that classifies as heat or cold is in that classifies as heat or cold is in here which is good because you here which is good because you here which is good because you kind of get more information into your kind of get more information into your kind of get more information into your analysis analysis analysis but it's bad when you go to your stats but it's bad when you go to your stats but it's bad when you go to your stats or if you just start looking through the or if you just start looking through the or if you just start looking through the studies studies studies and we realized that hey these two and we realized that hey these two and we realized that hey these two things are not alike things are not alike things are not alike you know when you're comparing putting you know when you're comparing putting you know when you're comparing putting an ice pack on your quad to an ice pack on your quad to an ice pack on your quad to being submerged in cryotherapy 15 being submerged in cryotherapy 15 being submerged in cryotherapy 15 minutes at negative 135 minutes at negative 135 minutes at negative 135 it's not quite the same so that's that it's not quite the same so that's that it's not quite the same so that's that that's a big caveat that's a big caveat that's a big caveat these researchers basically found that these researchers basically found that these researchers basically found that if you're going to use cold therapy and
05:00if you're going to use cold therapy and if you're going to use cold therapy and literature literature literature supports this pretty well i think it's a supports this pretty well i think it's a supports this pretty well i think it's a good standard effect size good standard effect size good standard effect size that you need to do it in the first 24 that you need to do it in the first 24 that you need to do it in the first 24 hours hours hours after you train so that would mean after you train so that would mean after you train so that would mean you know if you waited till the next day you know if you waited till the next day you know if you waited till the next day or if you waited really until you or if you waited really until you or if you waited really until you started feeling doms started feeling doms started feeling doms it probably wouldn't have an effect it probably wouldn't have an effect it probably wouldn't have an effect so when they looked at heat therapy so when they looked at heat therapy so when they looked at heat therapy um they found that it didn't really um they found that it didn't really um they found that it didn't really matter when you did it you could do it matter when you did it you could do it matter when you did it you could do it right after exercise for the first 24 right after exercise for the first 24 right after exercise for the first 24 hours hours or you could do it after 24 hours and it or you could do it after 24 hours and it or you could do it after 24 hours and it still had a moderate effect still had a moderate effect still had a moderate effect um and then when they compared between um and then when they compared between um and then when they compared between the two so heat or cold the two so heat or cold the two so heat or cold there were only like three studies um there were only like three studies um there were only like three studies um and they were pretty and they were pretty and they were pretty uh well they were not very similar we'll uh well they were not very similar we'll uh well they were not very similar we'll say that say that say that and they didn't find any effect they and they didn't find any effect they and they didn't find any effect they didn't say that or they couldn't say didn't say that or they couldn't say didn't say that or they couldn't say that heat or cold are better than one or that heat or cold are better than one or that heat or cold are better than one or the other um the other um the other um and when i looked at the in the studies and when i looked at the in the studies and when i looked at the in the studies i started going through
06:00i started going through i started going through like you know just the methods and the like you know just the methods and the like you know just the methods and the results of each study results of each study results of each study there weren't any that really like there weren't any that really like there weren't any that really like switched back and forth switched back and forth switched back and forth so kind of after i'm reading it and so kind of after i'm reading it and so kind of after i'm reading it and writing this blog i was like okay so writing this blog i was like okay so writing this blog i was like okay so maybe maybe maybe in my mind the first 24 hours you cold in my mind the first 24 hours you cold in my mind the first 24 hours you cold and then the next 24 hours are heat and then the next 24 hours are heat and then the next 24 hours are heat but we don't know that yet so but we don't know that yet so but we don't know that yet so that's kind of the results of the study that's kind of the results of the study that's kind of the results of the study i think i think i think again um again um again um i had dons this week and didn't even i had dons this week and didn't even i had dons this week and didn't even think about using any of these so that think about using any of these so that think about using any of these so that tells you how much i tells you how much i tells you how much i i use them in practice um or suggest i use them in practice um or suggest i use them in practice um or suggest them to other people them to other people them to other people what's the the mechanisms of like what's what's the the mechanisms of like what's what's the the mechanisms of like what's actually going on actually going on actually going on on a on a tissue or a physiological on a on a tissue or a physiological on a on a tissue or a physiological level level level yeah so when you exercise your muscles yeah so when you exercise your muscles yeah so when you exercise your muscles and body in general they heat up and body in general they heat up and body in general they heat up and then you have blood flow go to and then you have blood flow go to and then you have blood flow go to whatever you're exercising whatever you're exercising whatever you're exercising usually your full body too but it it usually your full body too but it it usually your full body too but it it goes away from your stomach goes away from your stomach goes away from your stomach out into your muscles and so your out into your muscles and so your out into your muscles and so your metabolism increases as you train
07:00metabolism increases as you train metabolism increases as you train and it kind of facilitates these and it kind of facilitates these and it kind of facilitates these molecular events uh heat shock proteins molecular events uh heat shock proteins molecular events uh heat shock proteins you get some mitochondria you get some mitochondria you get some mitochondria going um and then when you apply heat going um and then when you apply heat going um and then when you apply heat the theory like we don't know this for the theory like we don't know this for the theory like we don't know this for sure the theory is that you're sure the theory is that you're sure the theory is that you're prolonging prolonging prolonging that elevated the heat within your body that elevated the heat within your body that elevated the heat within your body or on your muscles or on your muscles or on your muscles at least um obviously you can't heat at least um obviously you can't heat at least um obviously you can't heat like your like your like your deep leg muscles but in theory you're deep leg muscles but in theory you're deep leg muscles but in theory you're you're you're you're prolonging this heat so you're allowing prolonging this heat so you're allowing prolonging this heat so you're allowing blood flow to continuously blood flow to continuously blood flow to continuously get into that muscle and some of these get into that muscle and some of these get into that muscle and some of these molecular events to molecular events to molecular events to remain occurring after you stop remain occurring after you stop remain occurring after you stop exercising exercising exercising okay so that's the heat side the heat okay so that's the heat side the heat okay so that's the heat side the heat also also also lets in a little bit more calcium so lets in a little bit more calcium so lets in a little bit more calcium so this activates your pain receptors this activates your pain receptors this activates your pain receptors um or inactivates your pain receptors so um or inactivates your pain receptors so um or inactivates your pain receptors so you don't feel the pain you don't feel the pain you don't feel the pain so doms is generally about pain now on so doms is generally about pain now on so doms is generally about pain now on the cold the cold the cold side right usually when people get side right usually when people get side right usually when people get injured the first thing they do like you injured the first thing they do like you injured the first thing they do like you sprain your ankle or you sprain your ankle or you sprain your ankle or you pull muscle first thing you do is go for
08:00pull muscle first thing you do is go for pull muscle first thing you do is go for a cold pack right and so this is to a cold pack right and so this is to a cold pack right and so this is to reduce reduce reduce swelling and it slows your metabolism swelling and it slows your metabolism swelling and it slows your metabolism down down down so that you you your body is reacting so that you you your body is reacting so that you you your body is reacting slower to very similar slower to very similar slower to very similar molecular events as heat but just kind molecular events as heat but just kind molecular events as heat but just kind of in the opposite direction of in the opposite direction of in the opposite direction so the idea is that this helps too so the idea is that this helps too so the idea is that this helps too we again we don't know exactly why or we again we don't know exactly why or we again we don't know exactly why or you know exactly how much we want to you know exactly how much we want to you know exactly how much we want to slow these events or elevate them which slow these events or elevate them which slow these events or elevate them which is part of the problem when we get into is part of the problem when we get into is part of the problem when we get into the details of these the details of these the details of these therapies hot or cold it's like okay you therapies hot or cold it's like okay you therapies hot or cold it's like okay you know maybe five minutes is great know maybe five minutes is great know maybe five minutes is great but eight hours is bad and you're like but eight hours is bad and you're like but eight hours is bad and you're like okay well that's you know somewhere in okay well that's you know somewhere in okay well that's you know somewhere in that range that range that range is what these studies are looking at and is what these studies are looking at and is what these studies are looking at and it's really hard to tell so it's really hard to tell so it's really hard to tell so those are the the underlying mechanisms those are the the underlying mechanisms those are the the underlying mechanisms um um um to that these therapies kind of go off to that these therapies kind of go off to that these therapies kind of go off of of of i've kind of always thought of like uh i've kind of always thought of like uh i've kind of always thought of like uh when a joint when a joint when a joint or more like bone tendon ligament i or more like bone tendon ligament i or more like bone tendon ligament i think cold think cold think cold and when i think muscle i think hot you
09:00and when i think muscle i think hot you and when i think muscle i think hot you know um know um know um would you say that has because to me my would you say that has because to me my would you say that has because to me my thought has always been thought has always been thought has always been ice or cold to reduce inflammation if i ice or cold to reduce inflammation if i ice or cold to reduce inflammation if i have inflammation in joint have inflammation in joint have inflammation in joint it's probably an issue because of an it's probably an issue because of an it's probably an issue because of an injury and injury and injury and and this might be incorrect we brought and this might be incorrect we brought and this might be incorrect we brought this up like shortly i think i've heard this up like shortly i think i've heard this up like shortly i think i've heard dr dr dr andy galpin talk about this for andy galpin talk about this for andy galpin talk about this for hypertrophy but like hypertrophy but like hypertrophy but like ice bass reducing inflammation is great ice bass reducing inflammation is great ice bass reducing inflammation is great for a performance athlete who is going for a performance athlete who is going for a performance athlete who is going from event to event but for some a from event to event but for some a from event to event but for some a bodybuilder who wants to build muscle or bodybuilder who wants to build muscle or bodybuilder who wants to build muscle or somebody who somebody who somebody who is chasing body composition goals is chasing body composition goals is chasing body composition goals experiencing doms like is that really experiencing doms like is that really experiencing doms like is that really the best thing because that might slow the best thing because that might slow the best thing because that might slow your own body's adaptation process to your own body's adaptation process to your own body's adaptation process to build muscle build muscle build muscle yeah so the one of the main studies on yeah so the one of the main studies on yeah so the one of the main studies on um um i think there's a cryotherapy and a cold i think there's a cryotherapy and a cold i think there's a cryotherapy and a cold water immersion study water immersion study water immersion study that show if your goal is hypertrophy that show if your goal is hypertrophy that show if your goal is hypertrophy which you know if you're not an athlete which you know if you're not an athlete which you know if you're not an athlete that's probably your goal that's probably your goal that's probably your goal um you don't want to use cold therapy um you don't want to use cold therapy um you don't want to use cold therapy but as you may have seen or even done but as you may have seen or even done but as you may have seen or even done yourself like after yourself like after yourself like after a lot of sports or practice athletes go
10:00a lot of sports or practice athletes go a lot of sports or practice athletes go jump in a cold bath jump in a cold bath jump in a cold bath and that shows to kind of and that shows to kind of and that shows to kind of attenuate the problems that we see with attenuate the problems that we see with attenuate the problems that we see with strength strength strength and pain and they can still keep their and pain and they can still keep their and pain and they can still keep their agility in their mobility agility in their mobility agility in their mobility but it helps them get back on the field but it helps them get back on the field but it helps them get back on the field faster so that's exactly right faster so that's exactly right faster so that's exactly right um and actually galpin has a i think he um and actually galpin has a i think he um and actually galpin has a i think he has a really good has a really good has a really good youtube video on that specifically and youtube video on that specifically and youtube video on that specifically and he gets pretty deep he gets pretty deep he gets pretty deep i have uh him coming on on friday so i i have uh him coming on on friday so i i have uh him coming on on friday so i might might might bring that up i have so many different bring that up i have so many different bring that up i have so many different topics that i feel like i could topics that i feel like i could topics that i feel like i could just throw at him so we'll see um but no just throw at him so we'll see um but no just throw at him so we'll see um but no that makes sense too and if we look at that makes sense too and if we look at that makes sense too and if we look at like bodybuilding usually your training like bodybuilding usually your training like bodybuilding usually your training split split split kind of allows for some doms because kind of allows for some doms because kind of allows for some doms because it's like one of two things either a it's like one of two things either a it's like one of two things either a you're running a high frequency program you're running a high frequency program you're running a high frequency program which wouldn't have time for doms but if which wouldn't have time for doms but if which wouldn't have time for doms but if you have doms on a full body high you have doms on a full body high you have doms on a full body high frequency program you're doing too much frequency program you're doing too much frequency program you're doing too much of one muscle group in each one setting of one muscle group in each one setting of one muscle group in each one setting and if you're following a upper lower or and if you're following a upper lower or and if you're following a upper lower or bro split or anything like that bro split or anything like that bro split or anything like that you have probably 72 hours before you you have probably 72 hours before you you have probably 72 hours before you hit that muscle again and doms hit that muscle again and doms hit that muscle again and doms should probably be gone um so so that
11:00should probably be gone um so so that should probably be gone um so so that makes a lot of sense and i think you can makes a lot of sense and i think you can makes a lot of sense and i think you can kind of just avoid it you know and and kind of just avoid it you know and and kind of just avoid it you know and and use it for for a different purpose but use it for for a different purpose but use it for for a different purpose but um what are your thoughts on doms as a um what are your thoughts on doms as a um what are your thoughts on doms as a whole like is whole like is whole like is from from my understanding with research from from my understanding with research from from my understanding with research you don't really need to get sore you don't really need to get sore you don't really need to get sore to progress right there's no inherent to progress right there's no inherent to progress right there's no inherent like there's not a direct causation of like there's not a direct causation of like there's not a direct causation of like uh muscle damage equals growth but like uh muscle damage equals growth but like uh muscle damage equals growth but more so like the mechanisms to get to more so like the mechanisms to get to more so like the mechanisms to get to muscle growth might cause some muscle muscle growth might cause some muscle muscle growth might cause some muscle damage and that might cause soreness damage and that might cause soreness damage and that might cause soreness but i've also heard a lot of people who but i've also heard a lot of people who but i've also heard a lot of people who are well-versed in research that are are well-versed in research that are are well-versed in research that are like like like yeah but if you're not getting sore yeah but if you're not getting sore yeah but if you're not getting sore you're probably just not training hard you're probably just not training hard you're probably just not training hard enough and then we have the whole idea enough and then we have the whole idea enough and then we have the whole idea of like you're not of like you're not of like you're not actually pushing yourself enough to grow actually pushing yourself enough to grow actually pushing yourself enough to grow which is kind of broish to say but i which is kind of broish to say but i which is kind of broish to say but i don't disagree with but i'd love to get don't disagree with but i'd love to get don't disagree with but i'd love to get your thoughts on that and like what you your thoughts on that and like what you your thoughts on that and like what you i mean because you kind of have a good i mean because you kind of have a good i mean because you kind of have a good experience of both like being in the experience of both like being in the experience of both like being in the trenches and also obviously trenches and also obviously trenches and also obviously understanding the research understanding the research understanding the research really well yeah so i think what i really well yeah so i think what i really well yeah so i think what i generally tell people is generally tell people is generally tell people is you don't want to always be sore because you don't want to always be sore because you don't want to always be sore because that's that's bad that's that's bad that's that's bad uh when you're starting training uh when you're starting training
12:00uh when you're starting training obviously you're going to be sore like obviously you're going to be sore like obviously you're going to be sore like newbies newbies newbies even intermediates or after breaks even intermediates or after breaks even intermediates or after breaks you're going to be sore and that's you're going to be sore and that's you're going to be sore and that's totally okay that's a normal adaptation totally okay that's a normal adaptation totally okay that's a normal adaptation when it comes to kind of like you said when it comes to kind of like you said when it comes to kind of like you said pushing yourself pushing yourself pushing yourself you're also you probably want to be sore you're also you probably want to be sore you're also you probably want to be sore occasionally occasionally occasionally now if you find that you're doing legs now if you find that you're doing legs now if you find that you're doing legs once a week and you're always sore and once a week and you're always sore and once a week and you're always sore and therefore you only do legs once a week therefore you only do legs once a week therefore you only do legs once a week and your legs are never going growing and your legs are never going growing and your legs are never going growing well you might want to change up your well you might want to change up your well you might want to change up your frequency intensity or volume frequency intensity or volume frequency intensity or volume to adapt for that so you're not always to adapt for that so you're not always to adapt for that so you're not always sore so you can do more volume sore so you can do more volume sore so you can do more volume um i think again we um i think again we um i think again we so doms is not necessarily a bad thing so doms is not necessarily a bad thing so doms is not necessarily a bad thing in terms of strength in terms of strength in terms of strength or mobility unless it starts interfering or mobility unless it starts interfering or mobility unless it starts interfering with them with them with them so once you hit a certain level of doms so once you hit a certain level of doms so once you hit a certain level of doms your strength actually decreases your strength actually decreases your strength actually decreases like 20 20 right so that means in the like 20 20 right so that means in the like 20 20 right so that means in the gym gym gym less volume less growth you know it's less volume less growth you know it's less volume less growth you know it's kind of a vision to cycle especially if kind of a vision to cycle especially if kind of a vision to cycle especially if you're doing it once a week or you're doing it once a week or you're doing it once a week or once a month uh the other thing we see once a month uh the other thing we see once a month uh the other thing we see is is is every time you switch exercises
13:00every time you switch exercises every time you switch exercises especially trained people so there's give an example so if you so there's give an example so if you went from rdls went from rdls went from rdls to kind of like a normal deadlift to kind of like a normal deadlift to kind of like a normal deadlift you might get some soreness even though you might get some soreness even though you might get some soreness even though they're similar you're probably going to they're similar you're probably going to they're similar you're probably going to get a little soreness and that's okay get a little soreness and that's okay get a little soreness and that's okay too too too tends to happen in trained people who tends to happen in trained people who tends to happen in trained people who are switching big exercises and big are switching big exercises and big are switching big exercises and big muscle groups muscle groups muscle groups um i i think i get it occasionally um i i think i get it occasionally um i i think i get it occasionally with deadlifts and anything with an with deadlifts and anything with an with deadlifts and anything with an eccentric motion eccentric motion eccentric motion like a large eccentric with a lot of like a large eccentric with a lot of like a large eccentric with a lot of weight that tends to have a little more weight that tends to have a little more weight that tends to have a little more downs induced downs induced downs induced yeah um i i typically for whatever yeah um i i typically for whatever yeah um i i typically for whatever reason i notice this reason i notice this reason i notice this most when i change an exercise variation most when i change an exercise variation most when i change an exercise variation that has more glutes that has more glutes that has more glutes involved in it because it's like i involved in it because it's like i involved in it because it's like i always have some kind of squat always have some kind of squat always have some kind of squat i always have some kind of rdl i always i always have some kind of rdl i always i always have some kind of rdl i always have some kind of leg curl have some kind of leg curl have some kind of leg curl but every once in a while if there's a but every once in a while if there's a but every once in a while if there's a hip dress or if there's like a sumo hip dress or if there's like a sumo hip dress or if there's like a sumo deadlift or something that like a deadlift or something that like a deadlift or something that like a different different different lunge variation like my glutes are just lunge variation like my glutes are just lunge variation like my glutes are just taxed for days and i hate that because taxed for days and i hate that because
14:00taxed for days and i hate that because every time i sit every time i sit every time i sit it's like and i don't give a [ __ ] about it's like and i don't give a [ __ ] about it's like and i don't give a [ __ ] about my glutes getting bigger personally but my glutes getting bigger personally but my glutes getting bigger personally but um no that makes sense i think that um no that makes sense i think that um no that makes sense i think that makes a lot of sense and i think the makes a lot of sense and i think the makes a lot of sense and i think the the eccentric little tip you through at the eccentric little tip you through at the eccentric little tip you through at the end is important because the end is important because the end is important because i tell people this with cardio all the i tell people this with cardio all the i tell people this with cardio all the time they're like well i love running time they're like well i love running time they're like well i love running and i'm like okay but just be aware like and i'm like okay but just be aware like and i'm like okay but just be aware like there's a lot of eccentric there's a lot of eccentric there's a lot of eccentric movement going on there and that's going movement going on there and that's going movement going on there and that's going to lead to more doms than say to lead to more doms than say to lead to more doms than say a sled or an assault bike even though a sled or an assault bike even though a sled or an assault bike even though you feel so much lactic acid build up in you feel so much lactic acid build up in you feel so much lactic acid build up in those exercises that it feels like those exercises that it feels like those exercises that it feels like you're going to be super sore you're you're going to be super sore you're you're going to be super sore you're probably not because it's just probably not because it's just probably not because it's just metabolites are going to disappear and metabolites are going to disappear and metabolites are going to disappear and you're going to be fine like it's it's you're going to be fine like it's it's you're going to be fine like it's it's you're going to accumulate the ability you're going to accumulate the ability you're going to accumulate the ability to handle that over time too to handle that over time too to handle that over time too so i think that's really important but i so i think that's really important but i so i think that's really important but i still i still tend to tell people like still i still tend to tell people like still i still tend to tell people like and you can be the judge of this too i and you can be the judge of this too i and you can be the judge of this too i think this is a good gauge of saying think this is a good gauge of saying think this is a good gauge of saying like for for advice is like like for for advice is like like for for advice is like you should be experiencing some you should be experiencing some you should be experiencing some not even just dom specifically but just not even just dom specifically but just not even just dom specifically but just like some soreness period like you like some soreness period like you like some soreness period like you should feel it right should feel it right should feel it right a day or two later um it probably a day or two later um it probably a day or two later um it probably shouldn't be there shouldn't be there shouldn't be there days later right so you should get sore days later right so you should get sore days later right so you should get sore from your training but it shouldn't be
15:00from your training but it shouldn't be from your training but it shouldn't be so sore that the next time you do that so sore that the next time you do that so sore that the next time you do that session session session or you train that muscle you or you train that muscle you or you train that muscle you underperform if you can still perform at underperform if you can still perform at underperform if you can still perform at your best your best your best and you're creating some soreness i and you're creating some soreness i and you're creating some soreness i think you've kind of hit that sweet spot think you've kind of hit that sweet spot think you've kind of hit that sweet spot and to me it's kind of a gauge of when i and to me it's kind of a gauge of when i and to me it's kind of a gauge of when i need to need to need to progress something or change an exercise progress something or change an exercise progress something or change an exercise because if i you know because if i you know because if i you know i'm getting a little sore but it's not i'm getting a little sore but it's not i'm getting a little sore but it's not discomfort or not harming my performance discomfort or not harming my performance discomfort or not harming my performance but but but eight weeks into this program i'm doing eight weeks into this program i'm doing eight weeks into this program i'm doing a lot of the same exercises and i'm not a lot of the same exercises and i'm not a lot of the same exercises and i'm not progressing anymore i'm not changing progressing anymore i'm not changing progressing anymore i'm not changing exercise i'm not getting sore at all exercise i'm not getting sore at all exercise i'm not getting sore at all it's like okay this might be a sign that it's like okay this might be a sign that it's like okay this might be a sign that like i need to create some novelty so like i need to create some novelty so like i need to create some novelty so i'm either i'm either i'm either changing the set rep scheme i'm changing changing the set rep scheme i'm changing changing the set rep scheme i'm changing the variation of exercise i'm changing the variation of exercise i'm changing the variation of exercise i'm changing their size completely their size completely their size completely change something to kind of create and change something to kind of create and change something to kind of create and elicit that stimulus again that causes elicit that stimulus again that causes elicit that stimulus again that causes some of that that mild soreness yeah i some of that that mild soreness yeah i some of that that mild soreness yeah i think think think the the one caveat to that is the the one caveat to that is the the one caveat to that is recognizing that some people recognizing that some people recognizing that some people will have doms more severe at different will have doms more severe at different will have doms more severe at different points so the the spectrum is like 24 to points so the the spectrum is like 24 to points so the the spectrum is like 24 to 72 hours and the peak is usually around 72 hours and the peak is usually around 72 hours and the peak is usually around 48 hours 48 hours 48 hours but you may especially with like legs but you may especially with like legs but you may especially with like legs and stuff you may hit that 72 hour mark
16:00and stuff you may hit that 72 hour mark and stuff you may hit that 72 hour mark and not quite be ready but again if and not quite be ready but again if and not quite be ready but again if you're training you're training you're training you know monday and then you're training you know monday and then you're training you know monday and then you're training leg skin on like a thursday friday leg skin on like a thursday friday leg skin on like a thursday friday you're generally fine you're generally fine you're generally fine um so yeah i generally agree with with um so yeah i generally agree with with um so yeah i generally agree with with those recommendations just kind of those recommendations just kind of those recommendations just kind of know that there's a little uh know that there's a little uh know that there's a little uh inter-individualness inter-individualness inter-individualness in some training aspects would you say in some training aspects would you say in some training aspects would you say for for for i mean i think it's obvious at this i mean i think it's obvious at this i mean i think it's obvious at this point if you're a fighter if you're a point if you're a fighter if you're a point if you're a fighter if you're a soccer player soccer player soccer player football anything like that you're not football anything like that you're not football anything like that you're not chasing hypertrophy like chasing hypertrophy like chasing hypertrophy like people who want to get leaner or bigger people who want to get leaner or bigger people who want to get leaner or bigger are so if you need to implement ice are so if you need to implement ice are so if you need to implement ice baths or cold plunger or anything like baths or cold plunger or anything like baths or cold plunger or anything like that that that to be able to practice safely and to be able to practice safely and to be able to practice safely and perform efficiently perform efficiently perform efficiently do it it's obviously something that's do it it's obviously something that's do it it's obviously something that's going to be beneficial would you say for going to be beneficial would you say for going to be beneficial would you say for the bodybuilder or the person who has the bodybuilder or the person who has the bodybuilder or the person who has aesthetic goals aesthetic goals aesthetic goals maybe scratching that and using the hot maybe scratching that and using the hot maybe scratching that and using the hot therapy because that therapy because that therapy because that tends to reduce soreness but um and you tends to reduce soreness but um and you tends to reduce soreness but um and you can correct me if i'm wrong but if can correct me if i'm wrong but if can correct me if i'm wrong but if if the main mechanism that's causing if the main mechanism that's causing if the main mechanism that's causing lack of hypertrophy lack of hypertrophy lack of hypertrophy is blunting inflammation is the warm
17:00is blunting inflammation is the warm is blunting inflammation is the warm therapy going to be a better route therapy going to be a better route therapy going to be a better route because it's not necessarily because it's not necessarily because it's not necessarily doing it or is it still having that same doing it or is it still having that same doing it or is it still having that same effect effect effect yeah so i i think you again make a good yeah so i i think you again make a good yeah so i i think you again make a good point there if you're if your goals are point there if you're if your goals are point there if you're if your goals are aesthetic um aesthetic um aesthetic um and even this like just this general and even this like just this general and even this like just this general review that we're doing on this paper review that we're doing on this paper review that we're doing on this paper like heat therapy is probably going to like heat therapy is probably going to like heat therapy is probably going to be better be better be better for doms for hypertrophy like in general for doms for hypertrophy like in general for doms for hypertrophy like in general it's just easier i think the the it's just easier i think the the it's just easier i think the the kind of theoretical mechanisms behind it kind of theoretical mechanisms behind it kind of theoretical mechanisms behind it make a little more sense to me make a little more sense to me make a little more sense to me because again you know with inflammation because again you know with inflammation because again you know with inflammation like you need it but you don't want too like you need it but you don't want too like you need it but you don't want too much but you want a little bit but much but you want a little bit but much but you want a little bit but you know with heat you're like allowing you know with heat you're like allowing you know with heat you're like allowing that process to occur that process to occur that process to occur and facilitating kind of blood flow into and facilitating kind of blood flow into and facilitating kind of blood flow into the areas so it's the areas so it's the areas so it's again helping um more so you might again helping um more so you might again helping um more so you might actually get more inflammation but i actually get more inflammation but i actually get more inflammation but i don't know that's a bad thing don't know that's a bad thing don't know that's a bad thing or you may get less um i think that the or you may get less um i think that the or you may get less um i think that the exact exact exact timing and heat therapy has not been um timing and heat therapy has not been um timing and heat therapy has not been um looked at too closely so it's almost
18:00looked at too closely so it's almost looked at too closely so it's almost just letting you it's it's kind of just letting you it's it's kind of just letting you it's it's kind of giving your body giving your body giving your body a little bit of a boost to do what it's a little bit of a boost to do what it's a little bit of a boost to do what it's already trying to do right yeah already trying to do right yeah already trying to do right yeah yeah and that now using it yeah and that yeah and that now using it yeah and that yeah and that now using it yeah and that was was was like i didn't really i've again been a like i didn't really i've again been a like i didn't really i've again been a muscle guy muscle guy muscle guy it's not something i've ever really it's not something i've ever really it's not something i've ever really thought of um thought of um thought of um going back to your athlete comment going back to your athlete comment going back to your athlete comment sometimes when you're practicing sometimes when you're practicing sometimes when you're practicing in the heat like ice baths can do like a in the heat like ice baths can do like a in the heat like ice baths can do like a double whammy double whammy double whammy right so you get your adaptations to right so you get your adaptations to right so you get your adaptations to um your thermal regulation are better um your thermal regulation are better um your thermal regulation are better and you can recover better um so that and you can recover better um so that and you can recover better um so that if you're an athlete training in the if you're an athlete training in the if you're an athlete training in the heat that might be another good option heat that might be another good option heat that might be another good option yeah i think the good thing about the yeah i think the good thing about the yeah i think the good thing about the whole uh heat therapy too is that it's whole uh heat therapy too is that it's whole uh heat therapy too is that it's not miserable not miserable not miserable like yeah so it actually i don't mind like yeah so it actually i don't mind like yeah so it actually i don't mind putting a heating pad on putting a heating pad on putting a heating pad on you know it's not a bad thing um okay you know it's not a bad thing um okay you know it's not a bad thing um okay cool so that makes a lot of sense i do cool so that makes a lot of sense i do cool so that makes a lot of sense i do have a couple random questions that come have a couple random questions that come have a couple random questions that come to my mind when we start talking about to my mind when we start talking about to my mind when we start talking about the stuff the stuff the stuff and the first one is like cold showers and the first one is like cold showers and the first one is like cold showers i've been doing the cold shower we've i've been doing the cold shower we've i've been doing the cold shower we've been doing the the taylor thirty life been doing the the taylor thirty life
19:00been doing the the taylor thirty life challenge challenge challenge uh in here live 30 day challenge and uh in here live 30 day challenge and uh in here live 30 day challenge and people are people are people are like i've had so many questions of like like i've had so many questions of like like i've had so many questions of like why a cold shower why are you doing this why a cold shower why are you doing this why a cold shower why are you doing this and i think some people in jordan's side and i think some people in jordan's side and i think some people in jordan's side had a video that was clear somebody had a video that was clear somebody had a video that was clear somebody asked him a question that said asked him a question that said asked him a question that said well cold showers help me lose more fat well cold showers help me lose more fat well cold showers help me lose more fat and he just stared at the camera and he just stared at the camera and he just stared at the camera like no and it was like because it was like no and it was like because it was like no and it was like because it was like a minute long of him just staring like a minute long of him just staring like a minute long of him just staring and it was getting closer to his face and it was getting closer to his face and it was getting closer to his face it's so funny but it's so funny but it's so funny but but i always tell people are always but i always tell people are always but i always tell people are always expecting me to be like give some expecting me to be like give some expecting me to be like give some scientific scientific scientific explanation or like talk about wim hof explanation or like talk about wim hof explanation or like talk about wim hof or something and i'm like it's just or something and i'm like it's just or something and i'm like it's just [ __ ] hard mentally and i don't want [ __ ] hard mentally and i don't want [ __ ] hard mentally and i don't want to turn the shower on cold but when i do to turn the shower on cold but when i do to turn the shower on cold but when i do i'm mentally more resilient as like i'm mentally more resilient as like i'm mentally more resilient as like hardcore as that sounds like hardcore as that sounds like hardcore as that sounds like it just makes other things life easier it just makes other things life easier it just makes other things life easier it's kind of just a mental boost like it's kind of just a mental boost like it's kind of just a mental boost like you you you it's just a win for the day like i it's just a win for the day like i it's just a win for the day like i accomplished something i didn't want to accomplished something i didn't want to accomplished something i didn't want to accomplish accomplish accomplish but i am curious because people always but i am curious because people always but i am curious because people always ask me uh what do you know about cold ask me uh what do you know about cold ask me uh what do you know about cold showers is there any science behind it showers is there any science behind it showers is there any science behind it and like the wim hof and all that kind and like the wim hof and all that kind and like the wim hof and all that kind of stuff of stuff of stuff there's a lot of claims of all these there's a lot of claims of all these there's a lot of claims of all these different things it does different things it does different things it does i'm unaware of any evidence not because
20:00i'm unaware of any evidence not because i'm unaware of any evidence not because i don't think there is necessary but i don't think there is necessary but i don't think there is necessary but just because i haven't taken the time to just because i haven't taken the time to just because i haven't taken the time to actually actually actually look into it i don't care enough to be look into it i don't care enough to be look into it i don't care enough to be honest with you but people ask all the honest with you but people ask all the honest with you but people ask all the time time time yeah um i have not i've not read any yeah um i have not i've not read any yeah um i have not i've not read any papers on cold showers papers on cold showers papers on cold showers um but i can kind of like if we think um but i can kind of like if we think um but i can kind of like if we think about it about it about it um it would have to be some kind of um it would have to be some kind of um it would have to be some kind of central effect because when you get in central effect because when you get in central effect because when you get in the shower i mean you don't hit every the shower i mean you don't hit every the shower i mean you don't hit every component of your body right so it's not component of your body right so it's not component of your body right so it's not going to be like you know i hit my legs going to be like you know i hit my legs going to be like you know i hit my legs and my back and everything at the same and my back and everything at the same and my back and everything at the same time time um but i i will put that on my on um but i i will put that on my on um but i i will put that on my on my list i'm i'm not also aware of any my list i'm i'm not also aware of any my list i'm i'm not also aware of any research on it too much but i'll look research on it too much but i'll look research on it too much but i'll look i'll look into it i'll look into it i'll look into it well so you know like because i've heard well so you know like because i've heard well so you know like because i've heard that too is like oh it's a central that too is like oh it's a central that too is like oh it's a central nervous system thing nervous system thing nervous system thing and and i'm like okay i could see that and and i'm like okay i could see that and and i'm like okay i could see that but then the other part of me goes but then the other part of me goes but then the other part of me goes when i turn the shower on cold i when i turn the shower on cold i when i turn the shower on cold i immediately go into a full body flex immediately go into a full body flex immediately go into a full body flex like i'm literally like squeezing and like i'm literally like squeezing and like i'm literally like squeezing and i'm like tense and i'm saying i'm like tense and i'm saying i'm like tense and i'm saying [ __ ] [ __ ] so pardon's like there's no [ __ ] [ __ ] so pardon's like there's no [ __ ] [ __ ] so pardon's like there's no way that's calming my nervous system way that's calming my nervous system way that's calming my nervous system down down right and i've read stuff about like you right and i've read stuff about like you right and i've read stuff about like you know a good way to get better sleep to
21:00know a good way to get better sleep to know a good way to get better sleep to to drop cortisol and calm your nervous to drop cortisol and calm your nervous to drop cortisol and calm your nervous system down is actually take a really system down is actually take a really system down is actually take a really warm shower and then immediately bundle warm shower and then immediately bundle warm shower and then immediately bundle in a blanket in a blanket in a blanket so it's like well if that's gonna help so it's like well if that's gonna help so it's like well if that's gonna help me calm down and go to sleep i don't me calm down and go to sleep i don't me calm down and go to sleep i don't think a cold shower is going to that's think a cold shower is going to that's think a cold shower is going to that's why i don't take it right before i go to why i don't take it right before i go to why i don't take it right before i go to sleep sleep sleep because i do it right when i get home because i do it right when i get home because i do it right when i get home from the gym and after work and stuff i from the gym and after work and stuff i from the gym and after work and stuff i just just just like 30 seconds to a minute two minutes like 30 seconds to a minute two minutes like 30 seconds to a minute two minutes at most like just at most like just at most like just cold but um but yeah i i've heard the cold but um but yeah i i've heard the cold but um but yeah i i've heard the central nervous system thing and i don't central nervous system thing and i don't central nervous system thing and i don't i don't i don't i don't i don't buy into it to it a ton just i don't buy into it to it a ton just i don't buy into it to it a ton just because personally i don't see that because personally i don't see that because personally i don't see that happening happening happening yeah i'm highly skeptical of it doing yeah i'm highly skeptical of it doing yeah i'm highly skeptical of it doing anything i will say that anything i will say that anything i will say that i i'm like my null is yeah i know it's i i'm like my null is yeah i know it's i i'm like my null is yeah i know it's not gonna do anything okay not gonna do anything okay not gonna do anything okay so well wim hof has become famous for it so well wim hof has become famous for it so well wim hof has become famous for it so so so but i think he does like i mean he goes but i think he does like i mean he goes but i think he does like i mean he goes and like sits next to an igloo and like sits next to an igloo and like sits next to an igloo or i mean a glacier in the high school or i mean a glacier in the high school or i mean a glacier in the high school like it's it's impressive that [ __ ] is like it's it's impressive that [ __ ] is like it's it's impressive that [ __ ] is wild but wild but wild but um the other question i had based on um the other question i had based on um the other question i had based on everything we're talking about is everything we're talking about is everything we're talking about is not necessarily a question i have but i not necessarily a question i have but i not necessarily a question i have but i think that's like pertinent to the think that's like pertinent to the think that's like pertinent to the listeners is just listeners is just listeners is just kind of uh almost like the
22:00kind of uh almost like the kind of uh almost like the evidence-based hierarchy i've heard evidence-based hierarchy i've heard evidence-based hierarchy i've heard people talk about but essentially like people talk about but essentially like people talk about but essentially like uh a meta-analysis we've we've said it uh a meta-analysis we've we've said it uh a meta-analysis we've we've said it before but maybe like before but maybe like before but maybe like you know what a meta-analysis is you know what a meta-analysis is you know what a meta-analysis is compared to a regular study compared to a regular study compared to a regular study what it takes to create a meta-analysis what it takes to create a meta-analysis what it takes to create a meta-analysis so like how many studies do you need so like how many studies do you need so like how many studies do you need before you can actually even put before you can actually even put before you can actually even put together a meta-analysis and together a meta-analysis and together a meta-analysis and how do you know what's better because i how do you know what's better because i how do you know what's better because i know for me when i first learned about a know for me when i first learned about a know for me when i first learned about a meta-analysis i was just like oh well meta-analysis i was just like oh well meta-analysis i was just like oh well i don't even need to look at studies i don't even need to look at studies i don't even need to look at studies i'll just look at the meta-analysis i'll just look at the meta-analysis i'll just look at the meta-analysis because that's going to be because that's going to be because that's going to be the cream of the crop and then i've the cream of the crop and then i've the cream of the crop and then i've heard arguments against that like well heard arguments against that like well heard arguments against that like well it's not that simple or it's not exactly it's not that simple or it's not exactly it's not that simple or it's not exactly that case all the time but i'd love for that case all the time but i'd love for that case all the time but i'd love for you to kind of explain that to the you to kind of explain that to the you to kind of explain that to the listener listener listener yeah so i've published a couple yeah so i've published a couple yeah so i've published a couple meta-analyses and meta-analyses and meta-analyses and they're very tricky because your they're very tricky because your they're very tricky because your inclusion and exclusion criteria so what inclusion and exclusion criteria so what inclusion and exclusion criteria so what you're looking at you're looking at you're looking at to collect studies dictates the answers to collect studies dictates the answers to collect studies dictates the answers to your questions and even what to your questions and even what to your questions and even what questions you can ask questions you can ask questions you can ask so a great example is in this current
23:00so a great example is in this current so a great example is in this current method analysis method analysis method analysis there's one study on older adults there's one study on older adults there's one study on older adults right why is that in there it doesn't right why is that in there it doesn't right why is that in there it doesn't actually do anything to the analysis actually do anything to the analysis actually do anything to the analysis like they could have excluded that um in like they could have excluded that um in like they could have excluded that um in their exclusion criteria before they their exclusion criteria before they their exclusion criteria before they even started and it would have been fine even started and it would have been fine even started and it would have been fine but they didn't know going in if there but they didn't know going in if there but they didn't know going in if there would be a ton of them or would be a ton of them or would be a ton of them or not a ton so there's also an a component not a ton so there's also an a component not a ton so there's also an a component of of expertise in the area of the field right expertise in the area of the field right expertise in the area of the field right so generally so generally so generally you know you'll see analyses on you know you'll see analyses on you know you'll see analyses on hypertrophy from hypertrophy from hypertrophy from various authors but schoenfeld's usually various authors but schoenfeld's usually various authors but schoenfeld's usually one of them and so you have to have one of them and so you have to have one of them and so you have to have someone with a good bit of expertise um someone with a good bit of expertise um someone with a good bit of expertise um in certain places so you don't have to in certain places so you don't have to in certain places so you don't have to believe it looks better and usually believe it looks better and usually believe it looks better and usually turns it out better if you do turns it out better if you do turns it out better if you do so basically meta-analyses you so basically meta-analyses you so basically meta-analyses you identify keywords and then you throw identify keywords and then you throw identify keywords and then you throw them into a couple different them into a couple different them into a couple different search engines right not google but like search engines right not google but like search engines right not google but like uh uh uh scientific search engines and then it scientific search engines and then it scientific search engines and then it dumps a ton of studies at you like dumps a ton of studies at you like dumps a ton of studies at you like average meta-analysis probably gets like
24:00average meta-analysis probably gets like average meta-analysis probably gets like 500 to a thousand studies depending on 500 to a thousand studies depending on 500 to a thousand studies depending on your topic so you have to sift through your topic so you have to sift through your topic so you have to sift through them all figure out what's relevant them all figure out what's relevant them all figure out what's relevant what's not based on what you said at the what's not based on what you said at the what's not based on what you said at the beginning like exclusion inclusion beginning like exclusion inclusion beginning like exclusion inclusion and then you have to extract data right and then you have to extract data right and then you have to extract data right so you're taking so you're taking so you're taking the differences in this case between the differences in this case between the differences in this case between hot therapy in the control and the hot therapy in the control and the hot therapy in the control and the control could be control could be control could be them sitting there some of these studies them sitting there some of these studies them sitting there some of these studies to control is them foam rolling some of to control is them foam rolling some of to control is them foam rolling some of these studies to control is then like these studies to control is then like these studies to control is then like getting uh self massage or something you getting uh self massage or something you getting uh self massage or something you know just know just know just some kind of active control where you some kind of active control where you some kind of active control where you can see how those might influences the can see how those might influences the can see how those might influences the changes that are occurring changes that are occurring changes that are occurring to benefit the control more or the to benefit the control more or the to benefit the control more or the therapy more therapy more therapy more so there are all these little nuances so there are all these little nuances so there are all these little nuances and honestly and honestly and honestly to really understand a good amount to really understand a good amount to really understand a good amount analysis you have to go through analysis you have to go through analysis you have to go through and look at every study in it so when i and look at every study in it so when i and look at every study in it so when i review papers review papers review papers so i probably get at least one so i probably get at least one so i probably get at least one meta-analysis a month meta-analysis a month meta-analysis a month i have to go through and read every i have to go through and read every i have to go through and read every single paper and make sure it fits their single paper and make sure it fits their single paper and make sure it fits their inclusion exclusion criteria
25:00inclusion exclusion criteria inclusion exclusion criteria make sure that they extract the data make sure that they extract the data make sure that they extract the data correctly make sure that they are using correctly make sure that they are using correctly make sure that they are using the correct statistical analysis the correct statistical analysis the correct statistical analysis for the number of studies that are in for the number of studies that are in for the number of studies that are in there there there so all these factors right and next so all these factors right and next so all these factors right and next month month month i've already picked this out so here's a i've already picked this out so here's a i've already picked this out so here's a teaser next month we're going to look at teaser next month we're going to look at teaser next month we're going to look at two meta analyses on two meta analyses on two meta analyses on training to failure and non-failure and training to failure and non-failure and training to failure and non-failure and why they came to why they came to why they came to completely different conclusions so um completely different conclusions so um completely different conclusions so um we'll talk about it more than not to bog we'll talk about it more than not to bog we'll talk about it more than not to bog the listeners down the listeners down the listeners down how long does that process take to how long does that process take to how long does that process take to create create create i guess so assumed it was a more i guess so assumed it was a more i guess so assumed it was a more automated process to be honest with you automated process to be honest with you automated process to be honest with you like like all right we'll click this button and all right we'll click this button and all right we'll click this button and it's going to filter all these for us it's going to filter all these for us it's going to filter all these for us and but no yeah and but no yeah and but no yeah i'm like that's it's that simple no i'm like that's it's that simple no i'm like that's it's that simple no honestly it's not that much different honestly it's not that much different honestly it's not that much different than a real study in terms of time than a real study in terms of time than a real study in terms of time commitment like ease it's a lot easier commitment like ease it's a lot easier commitment like ease it's a lot easier to do because i don't have to recruit to do because i don't have to recruit to do because i don't have to recruit subjects i don't have to collect data i subjects i don't have to collect data i subjects i don't have to collect data i don't have to worry about people showing don't have to worry about people showing don't have to worry about people showing up up up yeah um but time frame like if i have to yeah um but time frame like if i have to yeah um but time frame like if i have to read 500 abstracts
26:00read 500 abstracts read 500 abstracts and then go back and look through the and then go back and look through the and then go back and look through the references to make sure we didn't miss references to make sure we didn't miss references to make sure we didn't miss anything anything anything and then double check all of our data and then double check all of our data and then double check all of our data like like it takes a solid year to do a good it takes a solid year to do a good it takes a solid year to do a good meta-analyses meta-analyses meta-analyses yeah that's a long long time yeah yeah yeah that's a long long time yeah yeah yeah that's a long long time yeah yeah well um i think that's helpful for the well um i think that's helpful for the well um i think that's helpful for the listeners though because then they can listeners though because then they can listeners though because then they can kind of understand what it is and what kind of understand what it is and what kind of understand what it is and what to look for to look for to look for um obviously i think i always say this um obviously i think i always say this um obviously i think i always say this but listening to stuff like this but listening to stuff like this but listening to stuff like this checking out research reviews checking out research reviews checking out research reviews uh brandon writes for whiteology i think uh brandon writes for whiteology i think uh brandon writes for whiteology i think it's dotnet.com it's dotnet.com it's dotnet.com um i believe or am i incorrect i don't i um i believe or am i incorrect i don't i um i believe or am i incorrect i don't i don't remember don't remember don't remember pretty sure um and uh and obviously i pretty sure um and uh and obviously i pretty sure um and uh and obviously i always recommend mass research review always recommend mass research review always recommend mass research review but but um there's a lot of things that i think um there's a lot of things that i think um there's a lot of things that i think are are are it's important to be a part if you're a it's important to be a part if you're a it's important to be a part if you're a coach i think it's important to be coach i think it's important to be coach i think it's important to be listening to stuff like this or be a listening to stuff like this or be a listening to stuff like this or be a part of one of those because there's a part of one of those because there's a part of one of those because there's a lot of this stuff that lot of this stuff that lot of this stuff that it's not in textbooks yet because it's it's not in textbooks yet because it's it's not in textbooks yet because it's coming out now and it's not in coming out now and it's not in coming out now and it's not in some kind would you muscle and shrink some kind would you muscle and shrink some kind would you muscle and shrink pyramids that's not a textbook
27:00pyramids that's not a textbook pyramids that's not a textbook philosopher that's not a textbook philosopher that's not a textbook philosopher that's not a textbook technically but it's definitely not like technically but it's definitely not like technically but it's definitely not like a normal book a normal book a normal book you know it's not call it that i would you know it's not call it that i would you know it's not call it that i would so okay so so okay so so okay so muscle strength experiments i would use muscle strength experiments i would use muscle strength experiments i would use those and have used them in my exercise those and have used them in my exercise those and have used them in my exercise physiology quarters as i teach physiology quarters as i teach physiology quarters as i teach um and i've talked to eric about this um and i've talked to eric about this um and i've talked to eric about this but but like they're really good examples of like they're really good examples of like they're really good examples of like this is like lay speech like this is like lay speech like this is like lay speech and this is the you know the schoenfeld and this is the you know the schoenfeld and this is the you know the schoenfeld textbook on muscle hypertrophy and textbook on muscle hypertrophy and textbook on muscle hypertrophy and there's subtle differences there's subtle differences there's subtle differences right and we're scientists especially in right and we're scientists especially in right and we're scientists especially in fitness realm or getting better about fitness realm or getting better about fitness realm or getting better about communicating their findings and communicating their findings and communicating their findings and teaching things but yeah there's this teaching things but yeah there's this teaching things but yeah there's this kind of like hybrid we're like kind of like hybrid we're like kind of like hybrid we're like uh i'm not sure what that is it's both uh i'm not sure what that is it's both uh i'm not sure what that is it's both yeah well and and i think the the thing yeah well and and i think the the thing yeah well and and i think the the thing for me is always especially with the for me is always especially with the for me is always especially with the research reviews is like research reviews is like research reviews is like uh like it comes out monthly for most of uh like it comes out monthly for most of uh like it comes out monthly for most of these people and it comes out monthly these people and it comes out monthly these people and it comes out monthly for us and it's like okay let's look at for us and it's like okay let's look at for us and it's like okay let's look at what's coming out right now what's what's coming out right now what's what's coming out right now what's what's relevant to the person what's relevant to the person what's relevant to the person and talk about it now it'll be in a and talk about it now it'll be in a and talk about it now it'll be in a textbook in two years or three years or textbook in two years or three years or textbook in two years or three years or whatever you know what i mean and that's whatever you know what i mean and that's whatever you know what i mean and that's even if you're going to school even if you're going to school even if you're going to school for the stuff and a lot of people aren't for the stuff and a lot of people aren't for the stuff and a lot of people aren't they're coach people so
28:00they're coach people so they're coach people so um all right let's uh let's let's not um all right let's uh let's let's not um all right let's uh let's let's not run any further and get to the second run any further and get to the second run any further and get to the second study though because i want to dive into study though because i want to dive into study though because i want to dive into that one while we still have some time that one while we still have some time that one while we still have some time okay so the second study is on fasting okay so the second study is on fasting okay so the second study is on fasting um um and basically what this study did was and basically what this study did was and basically what this study did was it's an observational study which means it's an observational study which means it's an observational study which means you're just like you're just like you're just like taking measurements and watching people taking measurements and watching people taking measurements and watching people you're not doing anything to them you're not doing anything to them you're not doing anything to them so this is where a lot of research so this is where a lot of research so this is where a lot of research starts where like scientists starts where like scientists starts where like scientists observe something and then they make a observe something and then they make a observe something and then they make a hypothesis hypothesis hypothesis and they do an intervention and you know and they do an intervention and you know and they do an intervention and you know the whole scientific method thing the whole scientific method thing the whole scientific method thing um so this study was done at a retreat um so this study was done at a retreat um so this study was done at a retreat and if you look up this retreat it's in and if you look up this retreat it's in and if you look up this retreat it's in switzerland and i can't say it like that switzerland and i can't say it like that switzerland and i can't say it like that i can't pronounce the name i can't pronounce the name i can't pronounce the name but it looks like swank it looks nice but it looks like swank it looks nice but it looks like swank it looks nice um and so they they did the study where um and so they they did the study where um and so they they did the study where they they they had participants that were going to this had participants that were going to this had participants that were going to this fasting center fasting center fasting center for um a week some of them went longer for um a week some of them went longer for um a week some of them went longer but a week most of them there were there but a week most of them there were there but a week most of them there were there for a week they took baseline for a week they took baseline for a week they took baseline measures so they took some blood they measures so they took some blood they measures so they took some blood they took body comp they took
29:00took body comp they took took body comp they took um a couple other things at the start um a couple other things at the start um a couple other things at the start aft and then again at the seven day mark aft and then again at the seven day mark aft and then again at the seven day mark so the end of their so the end of their so the end of their like retreat week and then they followed like retreat week and then they followed like retreat week and then they followed up with them 60 days up with them 60 days up with them 60 days days later um and what they found days later um and what they found days later um and what they found as you can imagine when you're fasting as you can imagine when you're fasting as you can imagine when you're fasting you you lose body weight so they lost like i lose body weight so they lost like i lose body weight so they lost like i don't know i think it was like don't know i think it was like don't know i think it was like four or five kilos um yeah so four or five kilos um yeah so four or five kilos um yeah so six to nine pounds somewhere in there um six to nine pounds somewhere in there um six to nine pounds somewhere in there um and most of that and most of that and most of that was fat free mass so was fat free mass so was fat free mass so not muscle mass but the glycogen that's not muscle mass but the glycogen that's not muscle mass but the glycogen that's in your muscles and in your liver in your muscles and in your liver in your muscles and in your liver yeah water um and so yeah water um and so yeah water um and so you know that's not kind of anything you know that's not kind of anything you know that's not kind of anything novel novel novel like combat athletes fighters do that like combat athletes fighters do that like combat athletes fighters do that all the time we'll drop weight power all the time we'll drop weight power all the time we'll drop weight power lifters do it they'll drop weight lifters do it they'll drop weight lifters do it they'll drop weight um and then they followed up with them um and then they followed up with them um and then they followed up with them 60 days later 60 days later 60 days later and one of the kind of more interesting and one of the kind of more interesting and one of the kind of more interesting findings was that 60 days later findings was that 60 days later findings was that 60 days later they had actually lost fat mass even
30:00they had actually lost fat mass even they had actually lost fat mass even though they didn't lose it during their though they didn't lose it during their though they didn't lose it during their retreat so that kind of tells me that retreat so that kind of tells me that retreat so that kind of tells me that this was either a kind of booster shot this was either a kind of booster shot this was either a kind of booster shot in their health in their health in their health so it was like hey you need to get back so it was like hey you need to get back so it was like hey you need to get back on on track or this was the start of on on track or this was the start of on on track or this was the start of their journey their journey their journey um where like hey i'm going to go to um where like hey i'm going to go to um where like hey i'm going to go to this retreat and i'm going to get my this retreat and i'm going to get my this retreat and i'm going to get my diet right diet right diet right i'm going to feel great and i'm going to i'm going to feel great and i'm going to i'm going to feel great and i'm going to make all these lifestyle changes and make all these lifestyle changes and make all these lifestyle changes and they didn't track any of that so they didn't track any of that so they didn't track any of that so like i'm just speculating but that's like i'm just speculating but that's like i'm just speculating but that's probably what happened probably what happened probably what happened um it's good no you're fine go ahead um it's good no you're fine go ahead um it's good no you're fine go ahead all right uh so when they looked at all right uh so when they looked at all right uh so when they looked at blood measurements they had glucose blood measurements they had glucose blood measurements they had glucose uh triglycerides so hdl ldl uh triglycerides so hdl ldl uh triglycerides so hdl ldl and then igf-1 this is what i was about and then igf-1 this is what i was about and then igf-1 this is what i was about to ask about to ask about to ask about yeah when the when the participants yeah when the when the participants yeah when the when the participants started started started like their blood glucose was pretty low like their blood glucose was pretty low like their blood glucose was pretty low like it was very normal like it was very normal like it was very normal if you just look at their blood glucose if you just look at their blood glucose if you just look at their blood glucose you're like oh these people were pretty you're like oh these people were pretty you're like oh these people were pretty healthy healthy healthy um when in fact they were
31:00um when in fact they were um when in fact they were overweight to obese depending on how you overweight to obese depending on how you overweight to obese depending on how you want to look at it want to look at it want to look at it um but during the course of the study um but during the course of the study um but during the course of the study obviously if you're not eating obviously if you're not eating obviously if you're not eating your blood glucose drops and then 60 your blood glucose drops and then 60 your blood glucose drops and then 60 days later it's right back where it was days later it's right back where it was days later it's right back where it was so again that makes sense um so again that makes sense um so again that makes sense um triglycerides triglycerides triglycerides didn't really change much um they had a didn't really change much um they had a didn't really change much um they had a weird weird weird decrease in igf-1 which decrease in igf-1 which decrease in igf-1 which so during the fasting period that so during the fasting period that so during the fasting period that rebounded and and rebounded and and rebounded and and elevated to baseline which we've seen in elevated to baseline which we've seen in elevated to baseline which we've seen in physique athletes when they lose weight physique athletes when they lose weight physique athletes when they lose weight and so i'm pretty sure it's an indicator and so i'm pretty sure it's an indicator and so i'm pretty sure it's an indicator of just nutritional status of just nutritional status of just nutritional status in this in this respect at least where in this in this respect at least where in this in this respect at least where it's like your igf drops because you're it's like your igf drops because you're it's like your igf drops because you're not eating not eating not eating okay i was gonna say during the fast it okay i was gonna say during the fast it okay i was gonna say during the fast it dropped and when they started feeding dropped and when they started feeding dropped and when they started feeding again it went back up again it went back up again it went back up yeah which is ironic because i mean it's yeah which is ironic because i mean it's yeah which is ironic because i mean it's not around it's obvious but it's funny not around it's obvious but it's funny not around it's obvious but it's funny because because because i remember i mean there was even like a i remember i mean there was even like a i remember i mean there was even like a product or a book called anabolic product or a book called anabolic product or a book called anabolic fasting i don't know who the author is fasting i don't know who the author is fasting i don't know who the author is and even if i did i wouldn't put them on and even if i did i wouldn't put them on and even if i did i wouldn't put them on blast like that but it's blast like that but it's blast like that but it's like dude that that is literally the like dude that that is literally the like dude that that is literally the most
32:00most most oxymoron of a title i've ever that oxymoron of a title i've ever that oxymoron of a title i've ever that doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense anabolic fasting i mean when you're anabolic fasting i mean when you're anabolic fasting i mean when you're fasting catabolic technically it's not fasting catabolic technically it's not fasting catabolic technically it's not that you can't build muscle if you do that you can't build muscle if you do that you can't build muscle if you do intermittent fasting but intermittent fasting but intermittent fasting but those are definitely not the same thing those are definitely not the same thing those are definitely not the same thing um but there was a claim that like um but there was a claim that like um but there was a claim that like intermittent fasting and the lean gains intermittent fasting and the lean gains intermittent fasting and the lean gains approach like increased approach like increased approach like increased growth hormone in people and i remember growth hormone in people and i remember growth hormone in people and i remember people hearing that people hearing that people hearing that and i always just wondered like there's and i always just wondered like there's and i always just wondered like there's no research cited whenever people talk no research cited whenever people talk no research cited whenever people talk about this like where is their about this like where is their about this like where is their evidence to show this and it wouldn't evidence to show this and it wouldn't evidence to show this and it wouldn't make sense in theory because when we eat make sense in theory because when we eat make sense in theory because when we eat we are creating an anabolic environment we are creating an anabolic environment we are creating an anabolic environment for our body for our body for our body yeah i i i've heard that too and i'm yeah i i i've heard that too and i'm yeah i i i've heard that too and i'm just just the the hormone stuff outside of you the the hormone stuff outside of you the the hormone stuff outside of you know drugs and stuff is just kind of know drugs and stuff is just kind of know drugs and stuff is just kind of like like not very relevant um to most people not very relevant um to most people not very relevant um to most people i'll say that much so the last thing i'll say that much so the last thing i'll say that much so the last thing and i wanted to bring i put this in the and i wanted to bring i put this in the and i wanted to bring i put this in the blog because blog because blog because people love to talk about inflammation people love to talk about inflammation people love to talk about inflammation and we've talked about it briefly a and we've talked about it briefly a and we've talked about it briefly a couple couple couple different blogs and podcasts before but
33:00different blogs and podcasts before but different blogs and podcasts before but one of the main indicators of systemic one of the main indicators of systemic one of the main indicators of systemic inflammation like inflammation like inflammation like like hey i'm diseased i have like hey i'm diseased i have like hey i'm diseased i have inflammation in my body inflammation in my body inflammation in my body is this c-reactive protein so it's crp is this c-reactive protein so it's crp is this c-reactive protein so it's crp it's probably the most common indicator it's probably the most common indicator it's probably the most common indicator so people with diabetes often have so people with diabetes often have so people with diabetes often have elevated inflammation indicated by elevated inflammation indicated by elevated inflammation indicated by elevated crp great or not great but elevated crp great or not great but elevated crp great or not great but it's very consistent when you look at it's very consistent when you look at it's very consistent when you look at other markers they're not as consistent other markers they're not as consistent other markers they're not as consistent so this is the one that so this is the one that so this is the one that generally increases the most and is the generally increases the most and is the generally increases the most and is the best one to detect best one to detect best one to detect in the lab so in the lab so in the lab so day one crp is pretty low i mean it's day one crp is pretty low i mean it's day one crp is pretty low i mean it's not anything special not anything special not anything special day seven it like doubles or triples day seven it like doubles or triples day seven it like doubles or triples which really confused me when i started which really confused me when i started which really confused me when i started looking at it i was like wait a second looking at it i was like wait a second looking at it i was like wait a second so they're not eating and they're so they're not eating and they're so they're not eating and they're inflamed inflamed inflamed huh so i did a bunch of digging through huh so i did a bunch of digging through huh so i did a bunch of digging through the literature and it's all written up the literature and it's all written up the literature and it's all written up in the blog but basically this happens in the blog but basically this happens in the blog but basically this happens in a lot of different fasting um in a lot of different fasting um in a lot of different fasting um situations situations situations and experiments and nobody knows why
34:00and experiments and nobody knows why and experiments and nobody knows why it's just like it's just like it's just like they get super high inflammation and they get super high inflammation and they get super high inflammation and then it goes away then it goes away then it goes away um and that's exactly what happened here um and that's exactly what happened here um and that's exactly what happened here because by day 60 because by day 60 because by day 60 it was gone so they hadn't been fasting it was gone so they hadn't been fasting it was gone so they hadn't been fasting for a couple weeks by then but for a couple weeks by then but for a couple weeks by then but dropped back down to baseline one of the dropped back down to baseline one of the dropped back down to baseline one of the problems problems problems or theories behind inflammation or theories behind inflammation or theories behind inflammation being bad especially the crp being bad especially the crp being bad especially the crp is that it messes with your insulin is that it messes with your insulin is that it messes with your insulin sensitivity sensitivity sensitivity so it acts downstream of insulin so it acts downstream of insulin so it acts downstream of insulin through the little jargony but uh j and through the little jargony but uh j and through the little jargony but uh j and k k k slash map k pathways and it kind of slash map k pathways and it kind of slash map k pathways and it kind of blocks those from occurring blocks those from occurring blocks those from occurring or activating and so you get this issue or activating and so you get this issue or activating and so you get this issue with insulin and glucose um not with insulin and glucose um not with insulin and glucose um not necessarily relevant necessarily relevant necessarily relevant here but i kind of went down a rabbit here but i kind of went down a rabbit here but i kind of went down a rabbit hole because i was curious i think you already said this but just i think you already said this but just to clarify they went through the fasting to clarify they went through the fasting to clarify they went through the fasting period and then they followed up with period and then they followed up with period and then they followed up with these people 60 these people 60 these people 60 days later when they were eating during
35:00days later when they were eating during days later when they were eating during that 60-day period it was just go back that 60-day period it was just go back that 60-day period it was just go back to your lifestyle it wasn't like follow to your lifestyle it wasn't like follow to your lifestyle it wasn't like follow this diet this diet this diet yeah it was just go back to your yeah it was just go back to your yeah it was just go back to your lifestyle like you came for a week lifestyle like you came for a week lifestyle like you came for a week you had a retreat for fasting and then you had a retreat for fasting and then you had a retreat for fasting and then you went home you went home you went home so this is another funny thing one of so this is another funny thing one of so this is another funny thing one of the big claims about fasting is that it the big claims about fasting is that it the big claims about fasting is that it will reduce will reduce will reduce inflammation and i always hear people inflammation and i always hear people inflammation and i always hear people talking about like fasting great if you talking about like fasting great if you talking about like fasting great if you want to reduce inflammation want to reduce inflammation want to reduce inflammation um my thought with this um my thought with this um my thought with this with fasting in general i've always said with fasting in general i've always said with fasting in general i've always said like if you have a really stressful like if you have a really stressful like if you have a really stressful lifestyle it's probably not the best lifestyle it's probably not the best lifestyle it's probably not the best choice because we know that choice because we know that choice because we know that it might raise cortisol even higher but it might raise cortisol even higher but it might raise cortisol even higher but do you think that has anything to do do you think that has anything to do do you think that has anything to do with this like with this like with this like this the fasting was actually a stressor this the fasting was actually a stressor this the fasting was actually a stressor on their body and that created on their body and that created on their body and that created systemic inflammation that reaching systemic inflammation that reaching systemic inflammation that reaching maybe and i haven't when i was looking i maybe and i haven't when i was looking i maybe and i haven't when i was looking i didn't see any literature like didn't see any literature like didn't see any literature like with cortisol and crp together because with cortisol and crp together because with cortisol and crp together because then you could say all right they're then you could say all right they're then you could say all right they're both going up maybe they're related both going up maybe they're related both going up maybe they're related um so possibly um so possibly um so possibly i they do act i they do act i they do act on similar pathways when you get down
36:00on similar pathways when you get down on similar pathways when you get down the stream so i can see that the stream so i can see that the stream so i can see that having an effect but i'm not sure got it having an effect but i'm not sure got it having an effect but i'm not sure got it um yeah it's so funny man because i um yeah it's so funny man because i um yeah it's so funny man because i always think like always think like always think like i was i was uh i was on a consultation i was i was uh i was on a consultation i was i was uh i was on a consultation yesterday i told this guy this like yesterday i told this guy this like yesterday i told this guy this like the more research comes out the longer the more research comes out the longer the more research comes out the longer you coach it almost you coach it almost you coach it almost gets harder to coach gets harder to coach gets harder to coach effectively not because we know more effectively not because we know more effectively not because we know more because because you know even when like i remember like you know even when like i remember like you know even when like i remember like years ago when like a refeed was like years ago when like a refeed was like years ago when like a refeed was like new it was it was something like so new it was it was something like so new it was it was something like so cool and beneficial that it was an easy cool and beneficial that it was an easy cool and beneficial that it was an easy selling point as to why this diet was selling point as to why this diet was selling point as to why this diet was going to be different and then you kind going to be different and then you kind going to be different and then you kind of learn oh it's really not doing that of learn oh it's really not doing that of learn oh it's really not doing that much and like the more and more research much and like the more and more research much and like the more and more research coming out like the more and more we coming out like the more and more we coming out like the more and more we realize realize realize that this does that doesn't really do that this does that doesn't really do that this does that doesn't really do much like intermittent fasting is much like intermittent fasting is much like intermittent fasting is another example of like all these claims another example of like all these claims another example of like all these claims it's like it's like it's like no not really not really it's basically no not really not really it's basically no not really not really it's basically just a way to control calories now just a way to control calories now just a way to control calories now i do like the point you made initially i do like the point you made initially i do like the point you made initially like like seven days is a long time um i mean you seven days is a long time um i mean you seven days is a long time um i mean you gotta be committed to that i couldn't do gotta be committed to that i couldn't do
37:00gotta be committed to that i couldn't do it but it but it but even like a one day fast you know or a even like a one day fast you know or a even like a one day fast you know or a two day fast i can definitely see that two day fast i can definitely see that two day fast i can definitely see that being like this is my reset you know being like this is my reset you know being like this is my reset you know like like some people feel like i've heard people some people feel like i've heard people some people feel like i've heard people say like it's i use it as like a detox say like it's i use it as like a detox say like it's i use it as like a detox and i don't know if you're necessarily and i don't know if you're necessarily and i don't know if you're necessarily detoxing yourself detoxing yourself detoxing yourself but you're definitely i mean if bowel but you're definitely i mean if bowel but you're definitely i mean if bowel movements continue you're definitely movements continue you're definitely movements continue you're definitely kind of emptying things out you're kind of emptying things out you're kind of emptying things out you're you're drinking a lot of water flushing you're drinking a lot of water flushing you're drinking a lot of water flushing fluids and you're probably going to feel fluids and you're probably going to feel fluids and you're probably going to feel leaner lighter less bloated you're going leaner lighter less bloated you're going leaner lighter less bloated you're going to be hungry at the end of it but you're to be hungry at the end of it but you're to be hungry at the end of it but you're probably going to feel probably going to feel probably going to feel reset or detox by the end of it and if reset or detox by the end of it and if reset or detox by the end of it and if that mentally triggers you to start good that mentally triggers you to start good that mentally triggers you to start good habits and follow a diet then i'm all habits and follow a diet then i'm all habits and follow a diet then i'm all for it like i've even had a client like for it like i've even had a client like for it like i've even had a client like she she wanted to go through a detox and she she wanted to go through a detox and she she wanted to go through a detox and uh and i was like let's do it like i'm uh and i was like let's do it like i'm uh and i was like let's do it like i'm totally for it because i knew that's totally for it because i knew that's totally for it because i knew that's what she needed mentally i knew it what she needed mentally i knew it what she needed mentally i knew it wasn't gonna do anything wasn't gonna do anything wasn't gonna do anything when i put the brakes on it was like the when i put the brakes on it was like the when i put the brakes on it was like the third time she was like i think i need third time she was like i think i need third time she was like i think i need to do another and i was like hey like to do another and i was like hey like to do another and i was like hey like i'm i'm i'm like no more like it's it's not doing like no more like it's it's not doing like no more like it's it's not doing what we think it's doing and if it's a what we think it's doing and if it's a what we think it's doing and if it's a cyclical thing that you use as like a cyclical thing that you use as like a cyclical thing that you use as like a crutch to kick start again that's where crutch to kick start again that's where crutch to kick start again that's where we have we have we have we have different issues we have to we have different issues we have to we have different issues we have to solve you know if you do it once before
38:00solve you know if you do it once before solve you know if you do it once before starting a journey that's totally starting a journey that's totally starting a journey that's totally different i think that's different i think that's different i think that's great um i think where peop where i get great um i think where peop where i get great um i think where peop where i get frustrated is where people turn it frustrated is where people turn it frustrated is where people turn it intermittent fasting into into intermittent fasting into into intermittent fasting into into pseudoscience right it's not pseudoscience right it's not pseudoscience right it's not pseudoscience because it's well studied pseudoscience because it's well studied pseudoscience because it's well studied but but it is pseudoscience when you make claims it is pseudoscience when you make claims it is pseudoscience when you make claims that it increases igef1 and when that it increases igef1 and when that it increases igef1 and when it reduces inflammation when we it reduces inflammation when we it reduces inflammation when we apparently there's research that shows apparently there's research that shows apparently there's research that shows the complete opposite the complete opposite the complete opposite you know now you're just making false you know now you're just making false you know now you're just making false claims yeah yeah and i think claims yeah yeah and i think claims yeah yeah and i think it's it's when it's a fine line like it's it's when it's a fine line like it's it's when it's a fine line like it's a great area you it's a great area you it's a great area you you have some evidence to support you have some evidence to support you have some evidence to support something but you just push like something but you just push like something but you just push like 10 steps past it not even just like one 10 steps past it not even just like one 10 steps past it not even just like one like sometimes we can step like sometimes we can step like sometimes we can step one or two steps and be like okay well one or two steps and be like okay well one or two steps and be like okay well we can kind of speculate this when we can kind of speculate this when we can kind of speculate this when you're like on the other side of the you're like on the other side of the you're like on the other side of the room room room i'm just like no please stop um i'm just like no please stop um i'm just like no please stop um but you know it's understandable i think but you know it's understandable i think but you know it's understandable i think as long and i'm sure as long and i'm sure as long and i'm sure that you know with your client you that you know with your client you that you know with your client you didn't do this but as long as you're not didn't do this but as long as you're not didn't do this but as long as you're not trying any of like the weird like trying any of like the weird like trying any of like the weird like juice things are ingesting something juice things are ingesting something juice things are ingesting something that you don't know what's in it
39:00that you don't know what's in it that you don't know what's in it necessarily necessarily necessarily like that can be bad but we don't do like that can be bad but we don't do like that can be bad but we don't do that so that so that so it's so funny man cause i'm i'm like it's so funny man cause i'm i'm like it's so funny man cause i'm i'm like overly cautious about all these things overly cautious about all these things overly cautious about all these things because because my wife was like hey i think i want to my wife was like hey i think i want to my wife was like hey i think i want to get a juicer and i was like why do you get a juicer and i was like why do you get a juicer and i was like why do you want to get juicer want to get juicer want to get juicer don't go on with it and i just like don't go on with it and i just like don't go on with it and i just like immediately got defensive of like that's immediately got defensive of like that's immediately got defensive of like that's not the answer and she's like not the answer and she's like not the answer and she's like because blakely hates eating breakfast because blakely hates eating breakfast because blakely hates eating breakfast i'm trying to get her more fruits and i'm trying to get her more fruits and i'm trying to get her more fruits and i'm like i'm like i'm like oh [ __ ] love it let's get a juicer oh [ __ ] love it let's get a juicer oh [ __ ] love it let's get a juicer because because my daughter loves protein pancakes and my daughter loves protein pancakes and my daughter loves protein pancakes and things like that but it's like when you things like that but it's like when you things like that but it's like when you give her some fruit she's like nah give her some fruit she's like nah give her some fruit she's like nah it's vitamins so i was like okay yeah it's vitamins so i was like okay yeah it's vitamins so i was like okay yeah let's go juicer they're actually doing let's go juicer they're actually doing let's go juicer they're actually doing it this morning but it's just funny it this morning but it's just funny it this morning but it's just funny because my first response was like because my first response was like because my first response was like that's not a sustainable diet approach that's not a sustainable diet approach that's not a sustainable diet approach shannon and she's like i'm not trying to shannon and she's like i'm not trying to shannon and she's like i'm not trying to diet what the hell like diet what the hell like diet what the hell like yeah i i do a similar thing guys yeah i i do a similar thing guys yeah i i do a similar thing guys i have done that before all right uh is there any uh conclusion all right uh is there any uh conclusion you missed on that last one is there any you missed on that last one is there any you missed on that last one is there any any pointers you want to throw out of any pointers you want to throw out of any pointers you want to throw out of the i mean of either of them but the i mean of either of them but the i mean of either of them but obviously obviously obviously that last one especially um i don't that last one especially um i don't that last one especially um i don't think so think so think so i i you know just understanding some of
40:00i i you know just understanding some of i i you know just understanding some of these concepts for these concepts for these concepts for people who are listening is is the goal people who are listening is is the goal people who are listening is is the goal you know we don't always have to make you know we don't always have to make you know we don't always have to make like big claims or say like big claims or say like big claims or say you know hey do this or don't do that you know hey do this or don't do that you know hey do this or don't do that in the blog and on instagram this week i in the blog and on instagram this week i in the blog and on instagram this week i covered autophagy a little bit and so covered autophagy a little bit and so covered autophagy a little bit and so you you might see that come up um but might see that come up um but might see that come up um but i think in terms of fasting and i think in terms of fasting and i think in terms of fasting and autophagy autophagy autophagy a lot of that science is in caloric a lot of that science is in caloric a lot of that science is in caloric restriction restriction restriction lifespan extension and it's all done in lifespan extension and it's all done in lifespan extension and it's all done in animals and cell culture and and other animals and cell culture and and other animals and cell culture and and other bottles that are not human um so we have bottles that are not human um so we have bottles that are not human um so we have to be really careful to be really careful to be really careful where we go with like fasting causes where we go with like fasting causes where we go with like fasting causes autophagy autophagy causes good health right well there's causes good health right well there's causes good health right well there's some link there but we're not really some link there but we're not really some link there but we're not really clear like how it's all linked clear like how it's all linked clear like how it's all linked or what exactly you need to do to get or what exactly you need to do to get or what exactly you need to do to get the benefits so just kind of like a word the benefits so just kind of like a word the benefits so just kind of like a word of conscious cautious of conscious cautious of conscious cautious quick definition of autophagy just for quick definition of autophagy just for quick definition of autophagy just for people listening and then also people listening and then also people listening and then also um you kind of just said this but that's um you kind of just said this but that's um you kind of just said this but that's that's another big claim that's another big claim that's another big claim a lot of fasting proponents of like it
41:00a lot of fasting proponents of like it a lot of fasting proponents of like it is autophagy it helps is autophagy it helps is autophagy it helps or increase in autophagy but um dude is or increase in autophagy but um dude is or increase in autophagy but um dude is there a lot of studies that show this there a lot of studies that show this there a lot of studies that show this exact same thing in a caloric restricted exact same thing in a caloric restricted exact same thing in a caloric restricted diet like somebody goes on a healthy diet like somebody goes on a healthy diet like somebody goes on a healthy diet and loses weight they see autophagy diet and loses weight they see autophagy diet and loses weight they see autophagy as well as well as well yeah um so not necessary let me let me yeah um so not necessary let me let me yeah um so not necessary let me let me back up and start with just a simple back up and start with just a simple back up and start with just a simple definition so definition so definition so autophagy is just a cellular process autophagy is just a cellular process autophagy is just a cellular process responsible for responsible for responsible for degrading errors in proteins so that can degrading errors in proteins so that can degrading errors in proteins so that can be like a protein misfolds it happens be like a protein misfolds it happens be like a protein misfolds it happens all the time all the time all the time so it comes in eats it essentially and so it comes in eats it essentially and so it comes in eats it essentially and and destroys it and destroys it and destroys it um it could be because you know you have um it could be because you know you have um it could be because you know you have certain organelles that are kind of like certain organelles that are kind of like certain organelles that are kind of like been around for a while they need to be been around for a while they need to be been around for a while they need to be degraded and replaced so that's oft you degraded and replaced so that's oft you degraded and replaced so that's oft you can kind of take those down and you can can kind of take those down and you can can kind of take those down and you can get new cells or new components get new cells or new components get new cells or new components of cells to just maintain homeostasis of cells to just maintain homeostasis of cells to just maintain homeostasis um so there is um so there is um so there is uh kind of a very large field of uh kind of a very large field of uh kind of a very large field of research on chlorochrus restriction
42:00research on chlorochrus restriction research on chlorochrus restriction and lifespan extension and actually and lifespan extension and actually and lifespan extension and actually people who practice it people who practice it people who practice it and one of the mechanisms that's come up and one of the mechanisms that's come up and one of the mechanisms that's come up through through through the animal models of lifespan extension the animal models of lifespan extension the animal models of lifespan extension is this autophagy because it is is this autophagy because it is is this autophagy because it is increased during caloric restriction and increased during caloric restriction and increased during caloric restriction and fasting fasting fasting but we don't know for sure but we don't know for sure but we don't know for sure that they're necessarily connected um so that they're necessarily connected um so that they're necessarily connected um so in kind of these in kind of these in kind of these uh mechanistic studies what we can do is uh mechanistic studies what we can do is uh mechanistic studies what we can do is we can block something so like we could we can block something so like we could we can block something so like we could block autophagy block autophagy block autophagy with a drug or molecular device or with a drug or molecular device or with a drug or molecular device or something something something and we can then have people not people and we can then have people not people and we can then have people not people we can have rodents do caloric we can have rodents do caloric we can have rodents do caloric restriction or fasting restriction or fasting restriction or fasting and then if we see the same benefits and then if we see the same benefits and then if we see the same benefits that we can say that we can say that we can say okay it's not due to autophagy but if we okay it's not due to autophagy but if we okay it's not due to autophagy but if we don't see the benefits don't see the benefits don't see the benefits we can say okay well autophagy plays a we can say okay well autophagy plays a we can say okay well autophagy plays a role in that somewhere now we got to role in that somewhere now we got to role in that somewhere now we got to figure out figure out figure out where so we're in the phase of it plays where so we're in the phase of it plays where so we're in the phase of it plays a role somewhere we're still figuring a role somewhere we're still figuring a role somewhere we're still figuring out out out how and where
43:00this is why i think it's this is why i think it's i don't know this is a problem it's not i don't know this is a problem it's not i don't know this is a problem it's not wrong to say that it could wrong to say that it could wrong to say that it could create or help this but like when people create or help this but like when people create or help this but like when people are screaming are screaming are screaming fasting for autophagy from the top of fasting for autophagy from the top of fasting for autophagy from the top of rooftops that's where i get like kind of rooftops that's where i get like kind of rooftops that's where i get like kind of irritated cause i'm like irritated cause i'm like irritated cause i'm like it's almost like for people that say you it's almost like for people that say you it's almost like for people that say you almost have to be careful if anybody is almost have to be careful if anybody is almost have to be careful if anybody is like like really really really uh promoting one really really really uh promoting one really really really uh promoting one specific specific specific benefit like more than anything else you benefit like more than anything else you benefit like more than anything else you always have to put up a red flag and go always have to put up a red flag and go always have to put up a red flag and go okay like let's see this because okay like let's see this because okay like let's see this because i mean if these research reviews tell i mean if these research reviews tell i mean if these research reviews tell you anything there's always and it you anything there's always and it you anything there's always and it depends there's always depends there's always depends there's always like well it's kind of a gray area or like well it's kind of a gray area or like well it's kind of a gray area or it's in the middle um it's in the middle um it's in the middle um or we think so but we don't know or we think so but we don't know or we think so but we don't know completely yet because we're still you completely yet because we're still you completely yet because we're still you know what i mean and i think that's like know what i mean and i think that's like know what i mean and i think that's like so important for the people who aren't so important for the people who aren't so important for the people who aren't coaches coaches coaches listening and coaches who are listening listening and coaches who are listening listening and coaches who are listening like do your research like do your research like do your research don't grab onto any one thing and just don't grab onto any one thing and just don't grab onto any one thing and just run with it as hard as you can because run with it as hard as you can because run with it as hard as you can because it's not always the case and you don't it's not always the case and you don't it's not always the case and you don't want to get want to get want to get in trouble saying the wrong thing or or in trouble saying the wrong thing or or in trouble saying the wrong thing or or known as the person that does that and
44:00known as the person that does that and known as the person that does that and you're hopping from topic to topic you you're hopping from topic to topic you you're hopping from topic to topic you know it's just not a good look know it's just not a good look know it's just not a good look we're good dope i think that was a good we're good dope i think that was a good we're good dope i think that was a good research roundup or review or whatever research roundup or review or whatever research roundup or review or whatever we want to call it and i think that uh we want to call it and i think that uh we want to call it and i think that uh it's pretty damn applicable i know for it's pretty damn applicable i know for it's pretty damn applicable i know for me i'm actually probably gonna start me i'm actually probably gonna start me i'm actually probably gonna start using using using keypads because why not like i'm sore keypads because why not like i'm sore keypads because why not like i'm sore some days and if and some days and if and some days and if and like if it helps it helps but i like if it helps it helps but i like if it helps it helps but i definitely definitely definitely uh actually if these cold showers are uh actually if these cold showers are uh actually if these cold showers are hurting my high perch feet maybe that's hurting my high perch feet maybe that's hurting my high perch feet maybe that's a good reason to stop them a good reason to stop them a good reason to stop them don't tell the team i'll keep doing them don't tell the team i'll keep doing them don't tell the team i'll keep doing them god damn it god damn it god damn it all right that's a wrap we'll catch you all right that's a wrap we'll catch you all right that's a wrap we'll catch you guys next time