Cold water immersion and the body s regulation systems An interview with Dr Dway
00:00welcome back to the flex diet podcast welcome back to the flex diet podcast I'm your host Dr Mike T Nelson and on I'm your host Dr Mike T Nelson and on I'm your host Dr Mike T Nelson and on this podcast we talk all about things to this podcast we talk all about things to this podcast we talk all about things to increase lean body mouse or muscle and increase lean body mouse or muscle and increase lean body mouse or muscle and strength and also increase your strength and also increase your strength and also increase your performance improve your body comp and performance improve your body comp and performance improve your body comp and do it all within a flexible framework do it all within a flexible framework do it all within a flexible framework without destroying your health in the without destroying your health in the without destroying your health in the process today on the podcast I've got Dr process today on the podcast I've got Dr process today on the podcast I've got Dr Dwayne Jackson and we talk about a whole Dwayne Jackson and we talk about a whole Dwayne Jackson and we talk about a whole host of wide-ranging topics and we get host of wide-ranging topics and we get host of wide-ranging topics and we get Ultra nerdy which I enjoy and it's super Ultra nerdy which I enjoy and it's super Ultra nerdy which I enjoy and it's super fun fun fun is a wealth of tons of information I is a wealth of tons of information I is a wealth of tons of information I finally got to meet him in person at the finally got to meet him in person at the finally got to meet him in person at the real coaches Summit in Vegas a couple real coaches Summit in Vegas a couple real coaches Summit in Vegas a couple months ago now months ago now months ago now and today we get to pick his brain about and today we get to pick his brain about and today we get to pick his brain about some cold water immersion he worked on some cold water immersion he worked on some cold water immersion he worked on for his Masters many years ago some of for his Masters many years ago some of for his Masters many years ago some of the original studies that were done more the original studies that were done more the original studies that were done more from an environmental purpose from an environmental purpose from an environmental purpose and then we talk all about different
01:00and then we talk all about different and then we talk all about different regulation systems in the body from regulation systems in the body from regulation systems in the body from blood pressure blood volume local blood pressure blood volume local blood pressure blood volume local responses responses responses and these are useful and these are useful and these are useful because once you understand them it because once you understand them it because once you understand them it gives you a little bit of a lens into gives you a little bit of a lens into gives you a little bit of a lens into performance and then we wrapped up with performance and then we wrapped up with performance and then we wrapped up with a question about lifting a question about lifting a question about lifting should you lift in more of a angry State should you lift in more of a angry State should you lift in more of a angry State and is that best for stress I want to and is that best for stress I want to and is that best for stress I want to let you know that the flex of diet let you know that the flex of diet let you know that the flex of diet certification will open again coming up certification will open again coming up certification will open again coming up June 5th 2023 go to flexdiet.com June 5th 2023 go to flexdiet.com June 5th 2023 go to flexdiet.com for all the information there and you'll for all the information there and you'll for all the information there and you'll be able to get on the wait list before be able to get on the wait list before be able to get on the wait list before it opens I'm going to have some super it opens I'm going to have some super it opens I'm going to have some super cool bonus items for you especially for cool bonus items for you especially for cool bonus items for you especially for people who are on the list there so go people who are on the list there so go people who are on the list there so go to flexdiet.com if you're looking for a to flexdiet.com if you're looking for a to flexdiet.com if you're looking for a complete system on how to maximize complete system on how to maximize complete system on how to maximize nutrition and recovery for both
02:00nutrition and recovery for both nutrition and recovery for both performance muscle and body composition performance muscle and body composition performance muscle and body composition this is your ticket we cover eight this is your ticket we cover eight this is your ticket we cover eight different interventions from protein to different interventions from protein to different interventions from protein to carbohydrates to fats carbohydrates to fats carbohydrates to fats do everything including neat so do everything including neat so do everything including neat so non-exercise activity thermogenesis non-exercise activity thermogenesis non-exercise activity thermogenesis walking exercise sleep micro nutrition walking exercise sleep micro nutrition walking exercise sleep micro nutrition Etc so go to flexdiet.com for all the Etc so go to flexdiet.com for all the Etc so go to flexdiet.com for all the information there and enjoy this podcast information there and enjoy this podcast information there and enjoy this podcast with Dr Dwayne Jackson welcome back to flex the diet podcast welcome back to flex the diet podcast I'm here today with Dr Dwayne Jackson I'm here today with Dr Dwayne Jackson I'm here today with Dr Dwayne Jackson how are you doing how are you doing how are you doing well Dr Mike how you doing well Dr Mike how you doing well Dr Mike how you doing good and you're in your garage podcast good and you're in your garage podcast good and you're in your garage podcast Studio up there in Canada Studio up there in Canada Studio up there in Canada hey I'm in my little Studio here and on hey I'm in my little Studio here and on hey I'm in my little Studio here and on the west coast we're way out on the west coast we're way out on the west coast we're way out on Vancouver Island as far as you can go Vancouver Island as far as you can go Vancouver Island as far as you can go and oh so you are on the island I was and oh so you are on the island I was and oh so you are on the island I was wondering about that yeah where as far wondering about that yeah where as far wondering about that yeah where as far as you can go on the in in the continent
03:00as you can go on the in in the continent as you can go on the in in the continent basically if you drive if you get to the basically if you drive if you get to the basically if you drive if you get to the island and then you drive to the West island and then you drive to the West island and then you drive to the West Coast of that Island Coast of that Island Coast of that Island and then when you get to the Pacific and then when you get to the Pacific and then when you get to the Pacific hang a left and go as far as you can to hang a left and go as far as you can to hang a left and go as far as you can to the South I guess it would be Southwest the South I guess it would be Southwest the South I guess it would be Southwest or whatever or that's our house it's or whatever or that's our house it's or whatever or that's our house it's basically the last stop in Canada it's basically the last stop in Canada it's basically the last stop in Canada it's just if you drive out my backyard which just if you drive out my backyard which just if you drive out my backyard which is called the front yard and it's is called the front yard and it's is called the front yard and it's Waterfront you took a boat you could Waterfront you took a boat you could Waterfront you took a boat you could depending what direction you can go to depending what direction you can go to depending what direction you can go to Alaska Alaska Alaska Hawaii oh wow China yeah it's right Hawaii oh wow China yeah it's right Hawaii oh wow China yeah it's right there so it's the big water very cool there so it's the big water very cool there so it's the big water very cool and they do a lot of kiteboarding or and they do a lot of kiteboarding or and they do a lot of kiteboarding or surfing or anything up there I know they surfing or anything up there I know they surfing or anything up there I know they do sometimes wrong the western coast in do sometimes wrong the western coast in do sometimes wrong the western coast in Canada places yeah so surfing's massive Canada places yeah so surfing's massive Canada places yeah so surfing's massive that's what this area is known for it's that's what this area is known for it's that's what this area is known for it's like Malibu Beach California was in like like Malibu Beach California was in like like Malibu Beach California was in like the late 60s early 70s so yeah going so the late 60s early 70s so yeah going so the late 60s early 70s so yeah going so yeah that's a that's the mecca of this yeah that's a that's the mecca of this yeah that's a that's the mecca of this area and do you serve for those fun area and do you serve for those fun area and do you serve for those fun things I do my family does more than I things I do my family does more than I things I do my family does more than I do just because I'm more into mountain do just because I'm more into mountain do just because I'm more into mountain biking dirt biking kind of things but biking dirt biking kind of things but biking dirt biking kind of things but but I do I go to the beach with my
04:00but I do I go to the beach with my but I do I go to the beach with my family and I play around in the water family and I play around in the water family and I play around in the water with them I wouldn't say I'm a surfer with them I wouldn't say I'm a surfer with them I wouldn't say I'm a surfer per se but we have all the gear nice per se but we have all the gear nice per se but we have all the gear nice yeah I'm down here in South Padre Texas yeah I'm down here in South Padre Texas yeah I'm down here in South Padre Texas so we come down here to kitesurf and so we come down here to kitesurf and so we come down here to kitesurf and I have attempted two times now to learn I have attempted two times now to learn I have attempted two times now to learn to Wing sir I don't know if that's to Wing sir I don't know if that's to Wing sir I don't know if that's popular up there but uh yeah it looks popular up there but uh yeah it looks popular up there but uh yeah it looks fun I used to windsurf eons ago so I got fun I used to windsurf eons ago so I got fun I used to windsurf eons ago so I got the idea board and paid sir for quite a the idea board and paid sir for quite a the idea board and paid sir for quite a while while while but man it's different so for people but man it's different so for people but man it's different so for people listening you hold on to like a physical listening you hold on to like a physical listening you hold on to like a physical wing and you've got a board that's got a wing and you've got a board that's got a wing and you've got a board that's got a hydrofoil underneath so the goal is to hydrofoil underneath so the goal is to hydrofoil underneath so the goal is to not just be on your knees trying to fly not just be on your knees trying to fly not just be on your knees trying to fly it around as a stand up and then to get it around as a stand up and then to get it around as a stand up and then to get up on the hydrofl just holding on to up on the hydrofl just holding on to up on the hydrofl just holding on to this little wing thing which is this little wing thing which is this little wing thing which is interesting interesting interesting yeah it's neat a bunch of my buddies yeah it's neat a bunch of my buddies yeah it's neat a bunch of my buddies when we were when I was in university when we were when I was in university when we were when I was in university down in the states in Connecticut they'd down in the states in Connecticut they'd down in the states in Connecticut they'd all go down to Hatteras North Carolina all go down to Hatteras North Carolina all go down to Hatteras North Carolina oh definitely yeah North Carolina South oh definitely yeah North Carolina South oh definitely yeah North Carolina South Carolina whatever it is and they do a Carolina whatever it is and they do a Carolina whatever it is and they do a lot of kiteboarding out there and man oh lot of kiteboarding out there and man oh lot of kiteboarding out there and man oh man some of those guys who who don't man some of those guys who who don't man some of those guys who who don't really know what they're doing really know what they're doing really know what they're doing trouble on those kites man
05:00trouble on those kites man trouble on those kites man they can get themselves way way up there they can get themselves way way up there they can get themselves way way up there and panicking and not letting go or and panicking and not letting go or and panicking and not letting go or releasing their harness or whatever it releasing their harness or whatever it releasing their harness or whatever it is I ever saw was God it was probably maybe I ever saw was God it was probably maybe 14 years ago now there's a guy a 14 years ago now there's a guy a 14 years ago now there's a guy a professional kiteboard they were professional kiteboard they were professional kiteboard they were interviewing and they're doing this interviewing and they're doing this interviewing and they're doing this little interview in this old cell camera little interview in this old cell camera little interview in this old cell camera and then you see some guy get picked up and then you see some guy get picked up and then you see some guy get picked up in the background just like floating in the background just like floating in the background just like floating through the image and the camera guy is through the image and the camera guy is through the image and the camera guy is like going holy [ __ ] look at that in the like going holy [ __ ] look at that in the like going holy [ __ ] look at that in the professional kiteboarder turns around professional kiteboarder turns around professional kiteboarder turns around this guy is probably like 80 feet in the this guy is probably like 80 feet in the this guy is probably like 80 feet in the air just whizzing by and he's oh that's air just whizzing by and he's oh that's air just whizzing by and he's oh that's not good yeah I mean then out here we not good yeah I mean then out here we not good yeah I mean then out here we saw a kiteboarder the other day they're saw a kiteboarder the other day they're saw a kiteboarder the other day they're not it's not very popular here just not it's not very popular here just not it's not very popular here just because there's like a lot of purists because there's like a lot of purists because there's like a lot of purists there's guys who live in Vans and stuff there's guys who live in Vans and stuff there's guys who live in Vans and stuff to surfing sure to surfing sure to surfing sure and it was funny because we saw him and and it was funny because we saw him and and it was funny because we saw him and I was explaining to my daughter I said I was explaining to my daughter I said I was explaining to my daughter I said this guy gets out too far this guy gets out too far this guy gets out too far he's in a lot of trouble out here
06:00he's in a lot of trouble out here he's in a lot of trouble out here because it's the big water there's still because it's the big water there's still because it's the big water there's still protection whatsoever and the lifeguards protection whatsoever and the lifeguards protection whatsoever and the lifeguards or anything out here it's just these big or anything out here it's just these big or anything out here it's just these big massive wild beaches with these massive massive wild beaches with these massive massive wild beaches with these massive surfs so it's pretty crazy surfs so it's pretty crazy surfs so it's pretty crazy yeah we went to Austria a couple years yeah we went to Austria a couple years yeah we went to Austria a couple years ago I was teaching some rpr there went ago I was teaching some rpr there went ago I was teaching some rpr there went down for my buddy Luke Lehman's wedding down for my buddy Luke Lehman's wedding down for my buddy Luke Lehman's wedding and it's gonna turn around for two and a and it's gonna turn around for two and a and it's gonna turn around for two and a half weeks which was amazing and at the half weeks which was amazing and at the half weeks which was amazing and at the time it was supposed to be pretty windy time it was supposed to be pretty windy time it was supposed to be pretty windy and I'd already talked to people who and I'd already talked to people who and I'd already talked to people who kiteboard on the coast there and kiteboard on the coast there and kiteboard on the coast there and everything and so I pack all my gear all everything and so I pack all my gear all everything and so I pack all my gear all of our [ __ ] there and I'm hauling around of our [ __ ] there and I'm hauling around of our [ __ ] there and I'm hauling around everywhere for two and a half weeks and everywhere for two and a half weeks and everywhere for two and a half weeks and literally there was no wind at all literally there was no wind at all literally there was no wind at all anywhere we were we would literally just anywhere we were we would literally just anywhere we were we would literally just miss it and then one day it was just miss it and then one day it was just miss it and then one day it was just wide open beach overcast wide open beach overcast wide open beach overcast no one was around and the waves just no one was around and the waves just no one was around and the waves just looked angry and it was not directly looked angry and it was not directly looked angry and it was not directly offshore but a little bit side off I was just like I was just like I don't think I'm going I don't have a I don't think I'm going I don't have a I don't think I'm going I don't have a good feeling about this if something
07:00good feeling about this if something good feeling about this if something happens Nobody's around I've never been happens Nobody's around I've never been happens Nobody's around I've never been here before I don't know that much about here before I don't know that much about here before I don't know that much about the air I don't know if there's currents the air I don't know if there's currents the air I don't know if there's currents and the fact that there was just nobody and the fact that there was just nobody and the fact that there was just nobody there just made me nervous but you're there just made me nervous but you're there just made me nervous but you're also so tempted because you're like oh also so tempted because you're like oh also so tempted because you're like oh this might be the only time I've this might be the only time I've this might be the only time I've literally taken all my gear like halfway literally taken all my gear like halfway literally taken all my gear like halfway around the world and written here yeah around the world and written here yeah around the world and written here yeah yeah yeah yeah that's funny that's funny that's funny yeah same thing happened we went to yeah same thing happened we went to yeah same thing happened we went to Alaska went up there several years ago Alaska went up there several years ago Alaska went up there several years ago got to do some halibut fishing with the got to do some halibut fishing with the got to do some halibut fishing with the alcohol lives up there again brought all alcohol lives up there again brought all alcohol lives up there again brought all my gear we get all the places to scoped my gear we get all the places to scoped my gear we get all the places to scoped out we were gonna do it and it just out we were gonna do it and it just out we were gonna do it and it just wasn't windy at all and Alaska it's wasn't windy at all and Alaska it's wasn't windy at all and Alaska it's freaky because they can have like just freaky because they can have like just freaky because they can have like just massive tides of like Timber the name of massive tides of like Timber the name of massive tides of like Timber the name of the one place but I think it has the the one place but I think it has the the one place but I think it has the largest title change in the world and it largest title change in the world and it largest title change in the world and it was like I think a nine foot difference was like I think a nine foot difference was like I think a nine foot difference it was just bananas like we went out and it was just bananas like we went out and it was just bananas like we went out and there's a bunch of people riding there there's a bunch of people riding there there's a bunch of people riding there that day at high tide and we had that day at high tide and we had that day at high tide and we had something else going on that day drove something else going on that day drove something else going on that day drove by there the next day by there the next day by there the next day and there was nobody there and it was
08:00and there was nobody there and it was and there was nobody there and it was literally a sand bar literally a sand bar literally a sand bar as far as you could see you're like as far as you could see you're like as far as you could see you're like there's no way this was like the same there's no way this was like the same there's no way this was like the same place as yesterday it's just crazy funny place as yesterday it's just crazy funny place as yesterday it's just crazy funny because the winter time out here like we because the winter time out here like we because the winter time out here like we get these King tides and the actual get these King tides and the actual get these King tides and the actual water and logs on our beach come right water and logs on our beach come right water and logs on our beach come right up onto our like our backyard front yard up onto our like our backyard front yard up onto our like our backyard front yard whatever you want to call it but this is whatever you want to call it but this is whatever you want to call it but this is our first experience this winter seeing our first experience this winter seeing our first experience this winter seeing it oh man because we've only been here it oh man because we've only been here it oh man because we've only been here since last June or last July and oh my since last June or last July and oh my since last June or last July and oh my God I couldn't believe the difference in God I couldn't believe the difference in God I couldn't believe the difference in height of water in the wintertime and height of water in the wintertime and height of water in the wintertime and the gnarly waves in front of our house the gnarly waves in front of our house the gnarly waves in front of our house we're getting some like 30 Footers that we're getting some like 30 Footers that we're getting some like 30 Footers that were like oh yeah you can there's like were like oh yeah you can there's like were like oh yeah you can there's like an island right across from my house and an island right across from my house and an island right across from my house and that's our protection like this oh if it that's our protection like this oh if it that's our protection like this oh if it wasn't for that Island wasn't for that Island wasn't for that Island and during low tide you can get out to and during low tide you can get out to and during low tide you can get out to the island the island the island and then go off to the spot and it's so and then go off to the spot and it's so and then go off to the spot and it's so protected but you're only about 100 protected but you're only about 100 protected but you're only about 100 yards from these massive waves so they yards from these massive waves so they yards from these massive waves so they come at you looking like this wall of come at you looking like this wall of come at you looking like this wall of water and then they break up the energy water and then they break up the energy water and then they break up the energy all dissipates because the Rocks but if all dissipates because the Rocks but if all dissipates because the Rocks but if you stay out there too long you're stuck
09:00you stay out there too long you're stuck you stay out there too long you're stuck on the island because it comes in and on the island because it comes in and on the island because it comes in and circles goes right around the island we circles goes right around the island we circles goes right around the island we didn't even know it was an island until didn't even know it was an island until didn't even know it was an island until this winter oh wow Island because it this winter oh wow Island because it this winter oh wow Island because it just usually the water doesn't go around just usually the water doesn't go around just usually the water doesn't go around it like a moat so this winter those it like a moat so this winter those it like a moat so this winter those hides yeah probably I would say they're hides yeah probably I would say they're hides yeah probably I would say they're probably at least five feet higher than probably at least five feet higher than probably at least five feet higher than in the summertime oh wow that's a huge in the summertime oh wow that's a huge in the summertime oh wow that's a huge difference yeah it's big but I could be difference yeah it's big but I could be difference yeah it's big but I could be wrong too because they did some modeling wrong too because they did some modeling wrong too because they did some modeling out here and I only saw this modeling out here and I only saw this modeling out here and I only saw this modeling after we bought the house but so we did after we bought the house but so we did after we bought the house but so we did the tsunami modeling because we're in a the tsunami modeling because we're in a the tsunami modeling because we're in a really high seismic area there's just a really high seismic area there's just a really high seismic area there's just a there's actually just a like a five five there's actually just a like a five five there's actually just a like a five five Richter Scale earthquake just off the Richter Scale earthquake just off the Richter Scale earthquake just off the coast from us they happen a lot in front coast from us they happen a lot in front coast from us they happen a lot in front of our house but because the because of our house but because the because of our house but because the because it's so close there's not enough energy it's so close there's not enough energy it's so close there's not enough energy to actually cause any issues for us oh to actually cause any issues for us oh to actually cause any issues for us oh okay you don't build any energy but it's okay you don't build any energy but it's okay you don't build any energy but it's but it was it's really cool because but it was it's really cool because but it was it's really cool because because they showed this modeling in a because they showed this modeling in a because they showed this modeling in a one meter so it's like just over three one meter so it's like just over three one meter so it's like just over three feet or whatever one meter uh elevation feet or whatever one meter uh elevation feet or whatever one meter uh elevation in the in the sea level because they're in the in the sea level because they're in the in the sea level because they're worried about what's going on in Alaska worried about what's going on in Alaska worried about what's going on in Alaska with the melting icebergs and stuff yeah with the melting icebergs and stuff yeah with the melting icebergs and stuff yeah one meter rise in level here we'll turn
10:00one meter rise in level here we'll turn one meter rise in level here we'll turn this place this whole area that I live this place this whole area that I live this place this whole area that I live in into the Thousand Islands in into the Thousand Islands in into the Thousand Islands with these houses sit on top of them so with these houses sit on top of them so with these houses sit on top of them so it's pretty neat how these very small it's pretty neat how these very small it's pretty neat how these very small changes in what we consider Small Change changes in what we consider Small Change changes in what we consider Small Change there's trillions of gallons of water there's trillions of gallons of water there's trillions of gallons of water but these look like small changes if you but these look like small changes if you but these look like small changes if you talk about meter actually turn into talk about meter actually turn into talk about meter actually turn into several meters of damage to the area you several meters of damage to the area you several meters of damage to the area you lose whole areas so it's yeah it's nuts lose whole areas so it's yeah it's nuts lose whole areas so it's yeah it's nuts it's fun even down here in South Padre it's fun even down here in South Padre it's fun even down here in South Padre like the tide it changes but it's not like the tide it changes but it's not like the tide it changes but it's not super huge a lot and we've noticed since super huge a lot and we've noticed since super huge a lot and we've noticed since coming down here where we go there's a coming down here where we go there's a coming down here where we go there's a little bit more erosion now than there little bit more erosion now than there little bit more erosion now than there used to be but because it's right at used to be but because it's right at used to be but because it's right at water level like you'll go out there water level like you'll go out there water level like you'll go out there sometimes and it's open for quite a sometimes and it's open for quite a sometimes and it's open for quite a while as you have to walk and other while as you have to walk and other while as you have to walk and other times it comes up really high there's times it comes up really high there's times it comes up really high there's not that much of a water difference but not that much of a water difference but not that much of a water difference but because everything is so flat in that because everything is so flat in that because everything is so flat in that area even a couple inches you can have area even a couple inches you can have area even a couple inches you can have some flooding and water coming into some flooding and water coming into some flooding and water coming into places that it just normally never comes places that it just normally never comes places that it just normally never comes in which I didn't really think about it in which I didn't really think about it in which I didn't really think about it because at first I thought oh it must be
11:00because at first I thought oh it must be because at first I thought oh it must be a huge tide change in this area and it's a huge tide change in this area and it's a huge tide change in this area and it's no it's only a couple inches but once no it's only a couple inches but once no it's only a couple inches but once you get over that little barrier which you get over that little barrier which you get over that little barrier which is small you've got a whole inline areas is small you've got a whole inline areas is small you've got a whole inline areas that just start to flood at that point that just start to flood at that point that just start to flood at that point then too yeah that's what we get in the then too yeah that's what we get in the then too yeah that's what we get in the summertime here like our out in front of summertime here like our out in front of summertime here like our out in front of our house our beach becomes empty during our house our beach becomes empty during our house our beach becomes empty during low tide and so you gotta walk out low tide and so you gotta walk out low tide and so you gotta walk out you're gonna probably walk it's so you're gonna probably walk it's so you're gonna probably walk it's so deceiving when you're up on our balcony deceiving when you're up on our balcony deceiving when you're up on our balcony because it looks like a small area but because it looks like a small area but because it looks like a small area but you probably gotta walk about you probably gotta walk about you probably gotta walk about a half a kilometer from edge of our a half a kilometer from edge of our a half a kilometer from edge of our beach to hit the actual White Water beach to hit the actual White Water beach to hit the actual White Water but when the Tide's in you you're to but when the Tide's in you you're to but when the Tide's in you you're to walk like a foot and you're into the walk like a foot and you're into the walk like a foot and you're into the water oh wow then it probably gets two water oh wow then it probably gets two water oh wow then it probably gets two or three feet deep where it's completely or three feet deep where it's completely or three feet deep where it's completely empty during low tide so it's pretty empty during low tide so it's pretty empty during low tide so it's pretty neat because when we bought the house neat because when we bought the house neat because when we bought the house people were like oh so you don't people were like oh so you don't people were like oh so you don't actually live on the beach when they saw actually live on the beach when they saw actually live on the beach when they saw like low tide stuff they're like oh I'm like low tide stuff they're like oh I'm like low tide stuff they're like oh I'm like no the ocean actually there's low like no the ocean actually there's low like no the ocean actually there's low tide and high tide they're like oh you tide and high tide they're like oh you tide and high tide they're like oh you have that at your house and I'm like the have that at your house and I'm like the have that at your house and I'm like the whole world has it man yeah whole world has it man yeah whole world has it man yeah you're hammered in Jamaica on the beach you're hammered in Jamaica on the beach you're hammered in Jamaica on the beach you just don't notice the beach just go you just don't notice the beach just go you just don't notice the beach just go way deeper than it was around in the day way deeper than it was around in the day way deeper than it was around in the day every 12 hours or whatever it is that's
12:00every 12 hours or whatever it is that's every 12 hours or whatever it is that's a good transition because we met at the a good transition because we met at the a good transition because we met at the finally met in person that the real finally met in person that the real finally met in person that the real coaches conference which was awesome and coaches conference which was awesome and coaches conference which was awesome and you had done a lot of original work or you had done a lot of original work or you had done a lot of original work or help with it about cold water immersion help with it about cold water immersion help with it about cold water immersion cold cold and warm yeah cold and warm cold cold and warm yeah cold and warm cold cold and warm yeah cold and warm thermoregulation was my it was my thing thermoregulation was my it was my thing thermoregulation was my it was my thing way back when I was in my mid-20s doing way back when I was in my mid-20s doing way back when I was in my mid-20s doing my masters yeah so tell us about that my masters yeah so tell us about that my masters yeah so tell us about that because the water immersion is the in because the water immersion is the in because the water immersion is the in thing now which I never thought it would thing now which I never thought it would thing now which I never thought it would be but I guess if I could predict the be but I guess if I could predict the be but I guess if I could predict the trends maybe I would make a lot more trends maybe I would make a lot more trends maybe I would make a lot more money or something I don't know but yeah money or something I don't know but yeah money or something I don't know but yeah so what are your thoughts about let's so what are your thoughts about let's so what are your thoughts about let's just say cold water and how it's related just say cold water and how it's related just say cold water and how it's related to metabolism to metabolism to metabolism yeah the work we did actually wasn't to yeah the work we did actually wasn't to yeah the work we did actually wasn't to look at the benefits of cold water look at the benefits of cold water look at the benefits of cold water emerging right we were actually looking emerging right we were actually looking emerging right we were actually looking at emergency Cold Water swimming for at emergency Cold Water swimming for at emergency Cold Water swimming for National Defense and the reason why we National Defense and the reason why we National Defense and the reason why we were doing it was we was because there's were doing it was we was because there's were doing it was we was because there's a lot of on the oil rigs especially a lot of on the oil rigs especially a lot of on the oil rigs especially there's a lot of military presence and there's a lot of military presence and there's a lot of military presence and police presence around those and a lot police presence around those and a lot police presence around those and a lot of these guys that work on these rigs of these guys that work on these rigs of these guys that work on these rigs actually fall into the ocean yeah and
13:00actually fall into the ocean yeah and actually fall into the ocean yeah and because of that yeah it was horrible eh because of that yeah it was horrible eh because of that yeah it was horrible eh and so we were trying to create a model and so we were trying to create a model and so we were trying to create a model in the lab to create a mathematical in the lab to create a mathematical in the lab to create a mathematical model so that we could model what would model so that we could model what would model so that we could model what would happen out in the real conditions when happen out in the real conditions when happen out in the real conditions when we when you fall into the ocean or fall we when you fall into the ocean or fall we when you fall into the ocean or fall into big water into big water into big water clothed the whole nine yards so we we clothed the whole nine yards so we we clothed the whole nine yards so we we started out with a hot tub that we started out with a hot tub that we started out with a hot tub that we modified to have a lot more air that modified to have a lot more air that modified to have a lot more air that circulates in it so we can keep the warm circulates in it so we can keep the warm circulates in it so we can keep the warm layer that circulates around the body layer that circulates around the body layer that circulates around the body away away away and we we used that it was 50 50 alcohol and we we used that it was 50 50 alcohol and we we used that it was 50 50 alcohol water and then a pile of ice to try and water and then a pile of ice to try and water and then a pile of ice to try and get it down to around zero wow so you're get it down to around zero wow so you're get it down to around zero wow so you're putting alcohol in there to get it putting alcohol in there to get it putting alcohol in there to get it colder incorrect yeah yeah we were colder incorrect yeah yeah we were colder incorrect yeah yeah we were trying to we're trying to get it yeah trying to we're trying to get it yeah trying to we're trying to get it yeah down colder because the problem we had down colder because the problem we had down colder because the problem we had when we did the actual pilot work out in when we did the actual pilot work out in when we did the actual pilot work out in the Ottawa River in the wintertime was the Ottawa River in the wintertime was the Ottawa River in the wintertime was that the actual stuff that we modeled in that the actual stuff that we modeled in that the actual stuff that we modeled in the lab didn't even come close to the lab didn't even come close to the lab didn't even come close to matching it and it was our first matching it and it was our first matching it and it was our first revelation that we had so we ran the revelation that we had so we ran the revelation that we had so we ran the stuff in the lab that was really cool so stuff in the lab that was really cool so stuff in the lab that was really cool so what we would do is we'd have we were what we would do is we'd have we were what we would do is we'd have we were looking at exercise before cold water
14:00looking at exercise before cold water looking at exercise before cold water immersion with and without so basically immersion with and without so basically immersion with and without so basically these guys are walking around with heavy these guys are walking around with heavy these guys are walking around with heavy gear on regard walking basically gear on regard walking basically gear on regard walking basically building up metabolic heat and then they building up metabolic heat and then they building up metabolic heat and then they fall into an extremely cold bath or the fall into an extremely cold bath or the fall into an extremely cold bath or the ocean so the idea was to have these guys ocean so the idea was to have these guys ocean so the idea was to have these guys ride the bike at 70 do2 Max ride the bike at 70 do2 Max ride the bike at 70 do2 Max predetermined we were measuring predetermined we were measuring predetermined we were measuring metabolism all the way through using a metabolism all the way through using a metabolism all the way through using a metabolic cart so indirect colorimetry metabolic cart so indirect colorimetry metabolic cart so indirect colorimetry and we had them sit in a thermal chamber and we had them sit in a thermal chamber and we had them sit in a thermal chamber with this hot tub in it so we clamped a with this hot tub in it so we clamped a with this hot tub in it so we clamped a room temperature ambient temperature and room temperature ambient temperature and room temperature ambient temperature and humidity and then had this cold tub in humidity and then had this cold tub in humidity and then had this cold tub in this room and so we'd have the guys ride this room and so we'd have the guys ride this room and so we'd have the guys ride at 70 percent and then get in and get in at 70 percent and then get in and get in at 70 percent and then get in and get in the cold tub and then we look at the the the cold tub and then we look at the the the cold tub and then we look at the the differences in the transients from differences in the transients from differences in the transients from normal sorry normal body temperature normal sorry normal body temperature normal sorry normal body temperature down to 32 degrees so we take them down down to 32 degrees so we take them down down to 32 degrees so we take them down to 32 it wouldn't take too long for most to 32 it wouldn't take too long for most to 32 it wouldn't take too long for most it took longer in the people that were it took longer in the people that were it took longer in the people that were exercised before because we had a bigger exercised before because we had a bigger exercised before because we had a bigger heat transient and because it causes heat transient and because it causes heat transient and because it causes because the skin has thermoreceptors in because the skin has thermoreceptors in because the skin has thermoreceptors in it that cause constriction it's really
15:00it that cause constriction it's really it that cause constriction it's really actually it actually holds on to that actually it actually holds on to that actually it actually holds on to that heat quite well in the quarantine so heat quite well in the quarantine so heat quite well in the quarantine so these guys are all instrumented they had these guys are all instrumented they had these guys are all instrumented they had oh God I think we collected about 80 oh God I think we collected about 80 oh God I think we collected about 80 channels of data so we had oh Jesus yeah channels of data so we had oh Jesus yeah channels of data so we had oh Jesus yeah 20 about 20 or so thermistors on the 20 about 20 or so thermistors on the 20 about 20 or so thermistors on the skin that were weighted like you have to skin that were weighted like you have to skin that were weighted like you have to weight them based on their thermal weight them based on their thermal weight them based on their thermal inputs yeah sensory inputs into core inputs yeah sensory inputs into core inputs yeah sensory inputs into core temperature and then you also have the temperature and then you also have the temperature and then you also have the core temperature inputs from esophageal core temperature inputs from esophageal core temperature inputs from esophageal temperature so they had esophageal probe temperature so they had esophageal probe temperature so they had esophageal probe that we shoved up their nose and then that we shoved up their nose and then that we shoved up their nose and then down down their throat so that was a down down their throat so that was a down down their throat so that was a predetermined measurement of their predetermined measurement of their predetermined measurement of their height so that we knew we were around height so that we knew we were around height so that we knew we were around the height of the aorta and that gives the height of the aorta and that gives the height of the aorta and that gives us the close estimation of blood us the close estimation of blood us the close estimation of blood temperature yeah and then we had a probe temperature yeah and then we had a probe temperature yeah and then we had a probe up their butt that gave us deep tissue up their butt that gave us deep tissue up their butt that gave us deep tissue core temperature core temperature core temperature so that so the transient would be the so that so the transient would be the so that so the transient would be the blood temperature drops first and then blood temperature drops first and then blood temperature drops first and then we start seeing deep tissue start to we start seeing deep tissue start to we start seeing deep tissue start to drop after and so what we were looking drop after and so what we were looking drop after and so what we were looking for was a 32 Degree esophageal for was a 32 Degree esophageal for was a 32 Degree esophageal temperature
16:00um yeah so 32 degrees Celsius and uh and um yeah so 32 degrees Celsius and uh and we would and that that's quite cold we would and that that's quite cold we would and that that's quite cold that's relatively heavy hypothermia and that's relatively heavy hypothermia and that's relatively heavy hypothermia and then we would have them sit and undergo then we would have them sit and undergo then we would have them sit and undergo shivering thermogenesis after so they shivering thermogenesis after so they shivering thermogenesis after so they get out of the tub and then just sit in get out of the tub and then just sit in get out of the tub and then just sit in the chair with their shorts on shivering the chair with their shorts on shivering the chair with their shorts on shivering I think that was the coolest part of the I think that was the coolest part of the I think that was the coolest part of the experiments because first of all after experiments because first of all after experiments because first of all after you pull anybody out of a cold water you pull anybody out of a cold water you pull anybody out of a cold water immersion one of the things we wanted to immersion one of the things we wanted to immersion one of the things we wanted to try and figure out was how we can try and figure out was how we can try and figure out was how we can recover core temperature quickly recover core temperature quickly recover core temperature quickly because core temperature when it drops because core temperature when it drops because core temperature when it drops down because of cold water immersion to down because of cold water immersion to down because of cold water immersion to 32 we get this post immersion after drop 32 we get this post immersion after drop 32 we get this post immersion after drop that they call that we see another that they call that we see another that they call that we see another degree or two in drop as the body starts degree or two in drop as the body starts degree or two in drop as the body starts to distribute the blood that's really to distribute the blood that's really to distribute the blood that's really cold from the skin to the Core cold from the skin to the Core cold from the skin to the Core and one of the things that was really and one of the things that was really and one of the things that was really cool about it was watching this sharing
17:00cool about it was watching this sharing cool about it was watching this sharing thermogenesis because this is true thermogenesis because this is true thermogenesis because this is true shivering oh [ __ ] I'm cold like that no shivering oh [ __ ] I'm cold like that no shivering oh [ __ ] I'm cold like that no this is like teeth chattering in the this is like teeth chattering in the this is like teeth chattering in the fetal position and if you watched the fetal position and if you watched the fetal position and if you watched the lean guys their backs and lean women lean guys their backs and lean women lean guys their backs and lean women you'd see the muscle fibers cycling like you'd see the muscle fibers cycling like you'd see the muscle fibers cycling like they were shivering like this was like they were shivering like this was like they were shivering like this was like deep shivering where the muscles were deep shivering where the muscles were deep shivering where the muscles were just basically under tetanus thickling just basically under tetanus thickling just basically under tetanus thickling through tetany wow you looked almost through tetany wow you looked almost through tetany wow you looked almost like alien like things happening in like like alien like things happening in like like alien like things happening in like the traps the lats mainly the back you the traps the lats mainly the back you the traps the lats mainly the back you could see be in the fetal position could see be in the fetal position could see be in the fetal position but it's really cool because we some of but it's really cool because we some of but it's really cool because we some of these guys and some of the girls would these guys and some of the girls would these guys and some of the girls would actually burn up to 1500 calories actually burn up to 1500 calories actually burn up to 1500 calories bringing their temperature back up and bringing their temperature back up and bringing their temperature back up and we model all of it to show that it we model all of it to show that it we model all of it to show that it actually was an input and worked really actually was an input and worked really actually was an input and worked really well well well so there is a big metabolic drive but so there is a big metabolic drive but so there is a big metabolic drive but these experiments are far or far taken these experiments are far or far taken these experiments are far or far taken way further into into hypothermia than way further into into hypothermia than way further into into hypothermia than what people see when they jump into a what people see when they jump into a what people see when they jump into a cold tub for four minutes or ten minutes cold tub for four minutes or ten minutes cold tub for four minutes or ten minutes or whatever and obviously a very or whatever and obviously a very or whatever and obviously a very controlled situation you've got controlled situation you've got controlled situation you've got professionals there who know what the
18:00professionals there who know what the professionals there who know what the hell they're doing watching them you've hell they're doing watching them you've hell they're doing watching them you've got monitors literally in their nose up got monitors literally in their nose up got monitors literally in their nose up their ass like all over their skin yeah their ass like all over their skin yeah their ass like all over their skin yeah throughout yeah that's not just some bro throughout yeah that's not just some bro throughout yeah that's not just some bro who gets in this cold tub for way too who gets in this cold tub for way too who gets in this cold tub for way too long by himself long by himself long by himself we did the funny part was when we did we did the funny part was when we did we did the funny part was when we did that when we went to the the turned out that when we went to the the turned out that when we went to the the turned out to be a case study because we only got to be a case study because we only got to be a case study because we only got another one we wanted to do the field another one we wanted to do the field another one we wanted to do the field study based on what we learned in the study based on what we learned in the study based on what we learned in the lab that was when the physics took over lab that was when the physics took over lab that was when the physics took over and it was really interesting to see and it was really interesting to see and it was really interesting to see because it was and we actually published because it was and we actually published because it was and we actually published this this case study it just as an this this case study it just as an this this case study it just as an abstract at facet abstract at facet abstract at facet and so my supervisor so I'm like so when and so my supervisor so I'm like so when and so my supervisor so I'm like so when you say there's a bunch of experienced you say there's a bunch of experienced you say there's a bunch of experienced people around it was in the lab we had people around it was in the lab we had people around it was in the lab we had that all set up we had everything in the that all set up we had everything in the that all set up we had everything in the AED and everything going on AED and everything going on AED and everything going on out in this field study we so we ended out in this field study we so we ended out in this field study we so we ended up getting the lock Master of the Ottawa up getting the lock Master of the Ottawa up getting the lock Master of the Ottawa River to give us his house so that we River to give us his house so that we River to give us his house so that we could utilize it for a lab and there's a could utilize it for a lab and there's a could utilize it for a lab and there's a boat launch right there so we had a boat launch right there so we had a boat launch right there so we had a zodiac that was given to us from
19:00zodiac that was given to us from zodiac that was given to us from National Defense it was a defensive National Defense it was a defensive National Defense it was a defensive environmental it was called dciem the environmental it was called dciem the environmental it was called dciem the defensive civil Institute of defensive civil Institute of defensive civil Institute of environmental medicine environmental medicine environmental medicine and so we had this thing rigged right up and so we had this thing rigged right up and so we had this thing rigged right up we had so this is back back when we had we had so this is back back when we had we had so this is back back when we had to make our own data acquisition systems to make our own data acquisition systems to make our own data acquisition systems so we had our attack in there that was so we had our attack in there that was so we had our attack in there that was like this big thick box looks like an like this big thick box looks like an like this big thick box looks like an old stereo from the 70s about what year old stereo from the 70s about what year old stereo from the 70s about what year is this for context yeah so this would is this for context yeah so this would is this for context yeah so this would be 19.99. okay gotcha Okay so we've got be 19.99. okay gotcha Okay so we've got be 19.99. okay gotcha Okay so we've got this we got the DAC in there we've got a this we got the DAC in there we've got a this we got the DAC in there we've got a portable metabolic cart we've got all portable metabolic cart we've got all portable metabolic cart we've got all these batteries we've had everything these batteries we've had everything these batteries we've had everything switched over with a DC converter to 12 switched over with a DC converter to 12 switched over with a DC converter to 12 volt into a system Nightmare and we volt into a system Nightmare and we volt into a system Nightmare and we instrument everybody up exactly like in instrument everybody up exactly like in instrument everybody up exactly like in the lab right so we get so we start with the lab right so we get so we start with the lab right so we get so we start with our supervisor our supervisor our supervisor and so we all go out there it's a little and so we all go out there it's a little and so we all go out there it's a little colder than we expected that day it was colder than we expected that day it was colder than we expected that day it was just me my buddy Chris and my supervisor just me my buddy Chris and my supervisor just me my buddy Chris and my supervisor Glenn and he's yeah it's a little colder Glenn and he's yeah it's a little colder Glenn and he's yeah it's a little colder so we go out we can't get the Zodiac so we go out we can't get the Zodiac so we go out we can't get the Zodiac even into the Ottawa River because ice even into the Ottawa River because ice even into the Ottawa River because ice is too thick like it just goes on top of is too thick like it just goes on top of is too thick like it just goes on top of it like breaking the ice up we get it it like breaking the ice up we get it it like breaking the ice up we get it all done all done all done we get in we're like we got Glen all we get in we're like we got Glen all we get in we're like we got Glen all instrumented he's all he's got like kind
20:00instrumented he's all he's got like kind instrumented he's all he's got like kind of military fatigues on kind of thing of military fatigues on kind of thing of military fatigues on kind of thing just a bunch of clothes basically just a bunch of clothes basically just a bunch of clothes basically and we dump them into the water and he's and we dump them into the water and he's and we dump them into the water and he's this is way colder this is way colder this is way colder this is way colder this is way colder this is way colder than our situation and he said and you than our situation and he said and you than our situation and he said and you can feel it because the river's flowing can feel it because the river's flowing can feel it because the river's flowing right this is the thing so it's carrying right this is the thing so it's carrying right this is the thing so it's carrying heat away heat away heat away in water yeah in water yeah in water yeah so much harder than just stagnet water so much harder than just stagnet water so much harder than just stagnet water it's crazy how big of a difference there it's crazy how big of a difference there it's crazy how big of a difference there is it was unbelievable and this took is it was unbelievable and this took is it was unbelievable and this took what would take let's say I'll give you what would take let's say I'll give you what would take let's say I'll give you some numbers that I'm just pulling at some numbers that I'm just pulling at some numbers that I'm just pulling at the top of my head but it would have an the top of my head but it would have an the top of my head but it would have an hour in the lab to achieve 32 degrees hour in the lab to achieve 32 degrees hour in the lab to achieve 32 degrees took about five or six minutes took about five or six minutes took about five or six minutes it took we we only got 100 yards from it took we we only got 100 yards from it took we we only got 100 yards from the shore wow at that point was when my the shore wow at that point was when my the shore wow at that point was when my supervisor starts singing the American supervisor starts singing the American supervisor starts singing the American national anthem for some stupid reason national anthem for some stupid reason national anthem for some stupid reason it rips out his esophageal probe it rips out his esophageal probe it rips out his esophageal probe unattaches himself from the metabolic unattaches himself from the metabolic unattaches himself from the metabolic cart and throws it and starts just cart and throws it and starts just cart and throws it and starts just swimming around but we've got him swimming around but we've got him swimming around but we've got him tethered with his rectal probe
21:00tethered with his rectal probe tethered with his rectal probe so anyway long story short it ends up he so anyway long story short it ends up he so anyway long story short it ends up he goes we we're still watching his rectal goes we we're still watching his rectal goes we we're still watching his rectal temperature I was rational temperatures temperature I was rational temperatures temperature I was rational temperatures down to 31 and we're like we got to get down to 31 and we're like we got to get down to 31 and we're like we got to get him out of there but we can't get him him out of there but we can't get him him out of there but we can't get him out he won't he doesn't want to get out out he won't he doesn't want to get out out he won't he doesn't want to get out we so we finally because he's completely we so we finally because he's completely we so we finally because he's completely Delirious we finally get him yeah we get Delirious we finally get him yeah we get Delirious we finally get him yeah we get back to the lock Master's house I'm back to the lock Master's house I'm back to the lock Master's house I'm cranking the heat the little awk cranking the heat the little awk cranking the heat the little awk Master's house and anyway turns out that Master's house and anyway turns out that Master's house and anyway turns out that we end up having to like basically break we end up having to like basically break we end up having to like basically break down into our skibbies and hug and he's saying don't call an ambulance and he's saying don't call an ambulance because we're getting so much [ __ ] because we're getting so much [ __ ] because we're getting so much [ __ ] but we can't get his core temperature but we can't get his core temperature but we can't get his core temperature but thank God he had that rectal probe but thank God he had that rectal probe but thank God he had that rectal probe in took us four and a half hours in this in took us four and a half hours in this in took us four and a half hours in this house I was heating up water like there house I was heating up water like there house I was heating up water like there was like mason jars all in the club oh was like mason jars all in the club oh was like mason jars all in the club oh yeah I was up putting them all around yeah I was up putting them all around yeah I was up putting them all around them but it's really neat because what them but it's really neat because what them but it's really neat because what came out of that was we developed a came out of that was we developed a came out of that was we developed a device or DCIM with the data and every device or DCIM with the data and every device or DCIM with the data and every developed a device that was made for developed a device that was made for developed a device that was made for recovery from this and what we realized recovery from this and what we realized recovery from this and what we realized we needed to have it happen fast was we needed to have it happen fast was we needed to have it happen fast was forced hot air rebreathing
22:00forced hot air rebreathing forced hot air rebreathing and yeah so it was literally like a hot and yeah so it was literally like a hot and yeah so it was literally like a hot air breathing device like you sucked in air breathing device like you sucked in air breathing device like you sucked in on a hair dryer you want to know what on a hair dryer you want to know what on a hair dryer you want to know what almost like a hairdryer I've seen one of almost like a hairdryer I've seen one of almost like a hairdryer I've seen one of the cabinet that they're in that has hot the cabinet that they're in that has hot the cabinet that they're in that has hot air in it but it was really neat because air in it but it was really neat because air in it but it was really neat because that's what came out of it but it was that's what came out of it but it was that's what came out of it but it was quite quite the quite the adventure and quite quite the quite the adventure and quite quite the quite the adventure and it serves as a warning to make sure it serves as a warning to make sure it serves as a warning to make sure people don't get to the point where they people don't get to the point where they people don't get to the point where they feel weird and like the water doesn't feel weird and like the water doesn't feel weird and like the water doesn't really bother them anymore because there really bother them anymore because there really bother them anymore because there are these shifts in mental mental acuity are these shifts in mental mental acuity are these shifts in mental mental acuity I guess you could say as you get into I guess you could say as you get into I guess you could say as you get into deep hypothermia deep hypothermia deep hypothermia yeah and the other part when I was yeah and the other part when I was yeah and the other part when I was looking at it too was looking at it too was looking at it too was I there was a stat and I can't remember I there was a stat and I can't remember I there was a stat and I can't remember what it was but for what it was but for what it was but for significant effects of drowning and this significant effects of drowning and this significant effects of drowning and this was like I don't remember what it was was like I don't remember what it was was like I don't remember what it was but every year from plane crashes car but every year from plane crashes car but every year from plane crashes car accidents some military stuff people accidents some military stuff people accidents some military stuff people fall out of their boat Etc and it was fall out of their boat Etc and it was fall out of their boat Etc and it was interesting to see the time course like interesting to see the time course like interesting to see the time course like some of them were like super short like some of them were like super short like some of them were like super short like in a couple minutes and then obviously in a couple minutes and then obviously in a couple minutes and then obviously it was a little bit longer and when I it was a little bit longer and when I it was a little bit longer and when I first looked at it I'm like what the first looked at it I'm like what the first looked at it I'm like what the hell is this like it can't be that much hell is this like it can't be that much hell is this like it can't be that much difference and you're not going to get
23:00difference and you're not going to get difference and you're not going to get Frank hypothermia in a minute and then Frank hypothermia in a minute and then Frank hypothermia in a minute and then what I read further I realized it was what I read further I realized it was what I read further I realized it was people who would go into cold water were people who would go into cold water were people who would go into cold water were not used to it would have that gasp not used to it would have that gasp not used to it would have that gasp reflux where they and their head would reflux where they and their head would reflux where they and their head would be in the water and they would inhale be in the water and they would inhale be in the water and they would inhale water and they would drown instantly and water and they would drown instantly and water and they would drown instantly and it wasn't from the basic effect of the it wasn't from the basic effect of the it wasn't from the basic effect of the cold it was the cold causing a gas cold it was the cold causing a gas cold it was the cold causing a gas reflex their head was in the wrong reflex their head was in the wrong reflex their head was in the wrong position or whatever too so that to me position or whatever too so that to me position or whatever too so that to me was a little bit eye-opening because I was a little bit eye-opening because I was a little bit eye-opening because I was like well this doesn't make sense was like well this doesn't make sense was like well this doesn't make sense and they're like oh yeah so there's all and they're like oh yeah so there's all and they're like oh yeah so there's all different facets of things going on different facets of things going on different facets of things going on Beyond just Frank hypothermia too when Beyond just Frank hypothermia too when Beyond just Frank hypothermia too when oh 100 absolutely yep oh 100 absolutely yep oh 100 absolutely yep yeah and it's usually drowning yeah and it's usually drowning yeah and it's usually drowning hypothermia would tend to if you get out hypothermia would tend to if you get out hypothermia would tend to if you get out of the water with severe deep of the water with severe deep of the water with severe deep hypothermia you're only just starting hypothermia you're only just starting hypothermia you're only just starting your adventure into yeah that's right so your adventure into yeah that's right so your adventure into yeah that's right so there's a lot of cases where people there's a lot of cases where people there's a lot of cases where people actually make it in they're like holy actually make it in they're like holy actually make it in they're like holy [ __ ] and they can't walk and they lay
24:00[ __ ] and they can't walk and they lay [ __ ] and they can't walk and they lay down and die of hypothermia because they down and die of hypothermia because they down and die of hypothermia because they go into this after drop and there's no go into this after drop and there's no go into this after drop and there's no recovery from it and so all systems slow recovery from it and so all systems slow recovery from it and so all systems slow rate down when you start getting into rate down when you start getting into rate down when you start getting into the 20 degrees Celsius range with your the 20 degrees Celsius range with your the 20 degrees Celsius range with your in the 20s with with hypothermia so it's in the 20s with with hypothermia so it's in the 20s with with hypothermia so it's yeah it's quite it was quite a quite an yeah it's quite it was quite a quite an yeah it's quite it was quite a quite an adventure studying that stuff and it was adventure studying that stuff and it was adventure studying that stuff and it was really neat because it led to actually really neat because it led to actually really neat because it led to actually once we started doing the cold stuff I once we started doing the cold stuff I once we started doing the cold stuff I realized how fickle it was it was and realized how fickle it was it was and realized how fickle it was it was and that's when I got into warm thermal that's when I got into warm thermal that's when I got into warm thermal regulation because regulation because regulation because a little less fickle and it's neat a little less fickle and it's neat a little less fickle and it's neat because it's it's still a really neat because it's it's still a really neat because it's it's still a really neat competition between cardiovascular competition between cardiovascular competition between cardiovascular reflexes and thermal reflexes and we run reflexes and thermal reflexes and we run reflexes and thermal reflexes and we run into this also with hypothermia there's into this also with hypothermia there's into this also with hypothermia there's a battle between high blood pressure a battle between high blood pressure a battle between high blood pressure during that time and not dilating skin during that time and not dilating skin during that time and not dilating skin like you normally would because you have like you normally would because you have like you normally would because you have this High really high cold thermal input this High really high cold thermal input this High really high cold thermal input to cause control yeah explain that for to cause control yeah explain that for to cause control yeah explain that for the listeners who may not be familiar the listeners who may not be familiar the listeners who may not be familiar because at the end of the day like you because at the end of the day like you because at the end of the day like you you have to keep perfusion into your you have to keep perfusion into your you have to keep perfusion into your brain so your body is trying to solve brain so your body is trying to solve brain so your body is trying to solve this complex battle between these kind
25:00this complex battle between these kind this complex battle between these kind of opposing factors of opposing factors of opposing factors yeah heat heat stress is actually the yeah heat heat stress is actually the yeah heat heat stress is actually the best way to exemplify it so after about best way to exemplify it so after about best way to exemplify it so after about especially after exercise they say we especially after exercise they say we especially after exercise they say we create the heat by exercising even in a create the heat by exercising even in a create the heat by exercising even in a controlled environment if you ride a controlled environment if you ride a controlled environment if you ride a cyclergometer for 30 to 45 minutes at 70 cyclergometer for 30 to 45 minutes at 70 cyclergometer for 30 to 45 minutes at 70 VO2 max you're actually going to build VO2 max you're actually going to build VO2 max you're actually going to build up a few degrees of or at least a degree up a few degrees of or at least a degree up a few degrees of or at least a degree and a half or so of heat during that and a half or so of heat during that and a half or so of heat during that bout of exercise just purely from the bout of exercise just purely from the bout of exercise just purely from the exercise itself and during that time exercise itself and during that time exercise itself and during that time there's a whole bunch of big shifts in there's a whole bunch of big shifts in there's a whole bunch of big shifts in blood flow to different areas of the blood flow to different areas of the blood flow to different areas of the body so one thing we know is there's body so one thing we know is there's body so one thing we know is there's this post-exercise hypotensive period this post-exercise hypotensive period this post-exercise hypotensive period after about of relatively intense after about of relatively intense after about of relatively intense cardiovascular exercise cardiovascular exercise cardiovascular exercise and this post-exercise hypotension has and this post-exercise hypotension has and this post-exercise hypotension has always been a question of what it is and always been a question of what it is and always been a question of what it is and our hypothesis was that the hypotension our hypothesis was that the hypotension our hypothesis was that the hypotension is a consequence of dilated skin skin is a consequence of dilated skin skin is a consequence of dilated skin skin arterioles so that we can actually arterioles so that we can actually arterioles so that we can actually dissipate heat over time and so the dissipate heat over time and so the dissipate heat over time and so the question we had was does the body favor
26:00question we had was does the body favor question we had was does the body favor thermoregulation over cardiovascular thermoregulation over cardiovascular thermoregulation over cardiovascular homeostasis and we got these people homeostasis and we got these people homeostasis and we got these people heated up with so we suited them up heated up with so we suited them up heated up with so we suited them up first of all in a massive water perfuse first of all in a massive water perfuse first of all in a massive water perfuse suit suit suit and the reason why we did that was so and the reason why we did that was so and the reason why we did that was so that we can clamp skin temperature and that we can clamp skin temperature and that we can clamp skin temperature and the reason why you have to do that is the reason why you have to do that is the reason why you have to do that is because skin temperature provides a because skin temperature provides a because skin temperature provides a thermal input for dilation in the brain thermal input for dilation in the brain thermal input for dilation in the brain stump ah so that's how you detect your stump ah so that's how you detect your stump ah so that's how you detect your environment to figure out what the environment to figure out what the environment to figure out what the hell's going on that's right so we we hell's going on that's right so we we hell's going on that's right so we we eliminate that variable as much as eliminate that variable as much as eliminate that variable as much as possible and then we can vary the possible and then we can vary the possible and then we can vary the temperature of the suit to look at temperature of the suit to look at temperature of the suit to look at transients the skin blood flow and transients the skin blood flow and transients the skin blood flow and sweating and what ends up happening is sweating and what ends up happening is sweating and what ends up happening is after a boat of exercise you end up after a boat of exercise you end up after a boat of exercise you end up having this hypotensive period that also having this hypotensive period that also having this hypotensive period that also coincides with a elevated esophageal coincides with a elevated esophageal coincides with a elevated esophageal temperature so like your immediate core temperature so like your immediate core temperature and what's really interesting about it and what's really interesting about it and what's really interesting about it is that we see about a probably a degree is that we see about a probably a degree is that we see about a probably a degree change in a degree during a half change
27:00change in a degree during a half change change in a degree during a half change in core temperature and it prevails over in core temperature and it prevails over in core temperature and it prevails over time time time and it prevails about the same length of and it prevails about the same length of and it prevails about the same length of time as the hypotension time as the hypotension time as the hypotension so we developed a bunch of experiments so we developed a bunch of experiments so we developed a bunch of experiments where we had low body positive pressure where we had low body positive pressure where we had low body positive pressure so I created this device in my dad's so I created this device in my dad's so I created this device in my dad's machine shop that you could upright sit machine shop that you could upright sit machine shop that you could upright sit in this thing you could pedal in this thing you could pedal in this thing you could pedal intergometer do your exercise and then intergometer do your exercise and then intergometer do your exercise and then we could turn on pressure we could turn on pressure we could turn on pressure in the low body so that basically it in the low body so that basically it in the low body so that basically it redistributes the blood from the legs redistributes the blood from the legs redistributes the blood from the legs back into the core blood volume back into the core blood volume back into the core blood volume so like the reverse of sending someone so like the reverse of sending someone so like the reverse of sending someone into space into space into space that you want to know what it's it's that you want to know what it's it's that you want to know what it's it's like a countermeasure that you'd have like a countermeasure that you'd have like a countermeasure that you'd have for space absolutely right yeah yeah for space absolutely right yeah yeah for space absolutely right yeah yeah yeah so at the end of the day at the end yeah so at the end of the day at the end yeah so at the end of the day at the end of the day the idea was that we'd of the day the idea was that we'd of the day the idea was that we'd redistrib redistribute that that blood redistrib redistribute that that blood redistrib redistribute that that blood back to the core so then it could be back to the core so then it could be back to the core so then it could be available for whatever the body has available for whatever the body has available for whatever the body has chosen as its recovery so it's going to chosen as its recovery so it's going to chosen as its recovery so it's going to be blood pressure or is it going to be be blood pressure or is it going to be be blood pressure or is it going to be thermoregulation and what we found was thermoregulation and what we found was thermoregulation and what we found was that after exercise we get this that after exercise we get this that after exercise we get this post-exercise hyperthermia that kind of
28:00post-exercise hyperthermia that kind of post-exercise hyperthermia that kind of matched up the blood pressure when we matched up the blood pressure when we matched up the blood pressure when we started putting low body positive started putting low body positive started putting low body positive pressure on and re-establishing blood pressure on and re-establishing blood pressure on and re-establishing blood pressure pressure pressure then we'd see at the same time core then we'd see at the same time core then we'd see at the same time core temperature come back down to normal so temperature come back down to normal so temperature come back down to normal so what we came up with was that the body what we came up with was that the body what we came up with was that the body is serving blood pressure over thermal is serving blood pressure over thermal is serving blood pressure over thermal homeostasis in order to try and recover homeostasis in order to try and recover homeostasis in order to try and recover blood pressure so blood pressure is the blood pressure so blood pressure is the blood pressure so blood pressure is the controlled variable controlled variable controlled variable but when we have this massive amount of but when we have this massive amount of but when we have this massive amount of blood pooling in the legs after exercise blood pooling in the legs after exercise blood pooling in the legs after exercise and we have the thermal stress where we and we have the thermal stress where we and we have the thermal stress where we have to try and get rid of that heat have to try and get rid of that heat have to try and get rid of that heat blood pressure can't do enough to blood pressure can't do enough to blood pressure can't do enough to recover just because of our blood volume recover just because of our blood volume recover just because of our blood volume isn't high enough where our legs can isn't high enough where our legs can isn't high enough where our legs can hold probably double our blood volume so hold probably double our blood volume so hold probably double our blood volume so depending the size of them so at the end depending the size of them so at the end depending the size of them so at the end of the day at the end of the day really of the day at the end of the day really of the day at the end of the day really the body itself only has a limited blood the body itself only has a limited blood the body itself only has a limited blood supply supply supply and that limited blood supply like you and that limited blood supply like you and that limited blood supply like you said has to make sure that it surfaces said has to make sure that it surfaces said has to make sure that it surfaces the brain and the brain is above the the brain and the brain is above the the brain and the brain is above the heart heart heart and way above the toes so gravity isn't and way above the toes so gravity isn't and way above the toes so gravity isn't helping us out there whatsoever so helping us out there whatsoever so helping us out there whatsoever so cardiovascular homeostasis prevails over cardiovascular homeostasis prevails over cardiovascular homeostasis prevails over thermal homeostasis and that's why when
29:00thermal homeostasis and that's why when thermal homeostasis and that's why when you're standing at the Boston Marathon you're standing at the Boston Marathon you're standing at the Boston Marathon or the New York Marathon or any marathon or the New York Marathon or any marathon or the New York Marathon or any marathon it Finish Line you see so many people go it Finish Line you see so many people go it Finish Line you see so many people go horizontal and it's because blood horizontal and it's because blood horizontal and it's because blood pressure just plummets and you'll see pressure just plummets and you'll see pressure just plummets and you'll see them throwing up and my wife's a them throwing up and my wife's a them throwing up and my wife's a marathon runner see this box got it and marathon runner see this box got it and marathon runner see this box got it and and it was really neat because I saw it and it was really neat because I saw it and it was really neat because I saw it in application when I was there and I in application when I was there and I in application when I was there and I thought these guys are going horizontal thought these guys are going horizontal thought these guys are going horizontal because their bodies reestablishing because their bodies reestablishing because their bodies reestablishing blood pressure blood pressure blood pressure and during that time once they get blood and during that time once they get blood and during that time once they get blood pressure reestablished then the body can pressure reestablished then the body can pressure reestablished then the body can start reestablishing its blood flow to start reestablishing its blood flow to start reestablishing its blood flow to the skin and get rid of that core the skin and get rid of that core the skin and get rid of that core temperature so it's it has a lot of temperature so it's it has a lot of temperature so it's it has a lot of application um these studies and really application um these studies and really application um these studies and really fun to do but really complicated because fun to do but really complicated because fun to do but really complicated because of the way the skin operates so skin of the way the skin operates so skin of the way the skin operates so skin blood flow has sympathetic constriction blood flow has sympathetic constriction blood flow has sympathetic constriction and sympathetic dilation yes and it's really interesting because yes and it's really interesting because we have local effects so we can put a we have local effects so we can put a we have local effects so we can put a sweat monitors we can put blood flow sweat monitors we can put blood flow sweat monitors we can put blood flow monitors over the skin and just hit that
30:00monitors over the skin and just hit that monitors over the skin and just hit that one spot of skin not don't change any one spot of skin not don't change any one spot of skin not don't change any other temperature in the body whatsoever other temperature in the body whatsoever other temperature in the body whatsoever with a quick blast with a quick blast with a quick blast and we could cause sweating you can also and we could cause sweating you can also and we could cause sweating you can also heat up the legs heat up the legs heat up the legs increase core temperature and cause increase core temperature and cause increase core temperature and cause sweating all over the body so we've got sweating all over the body so we've got sweating all over the body so we've got local inputs and then we've got local inputs and then we've got local inputs and then we've got hypothalamic inputs and the and that's hypothalamic inputs and the and that's hypothalamic inputs and the and that's where studying blood flow in skin and where studying blood flow in skin and where studying blood flow in skin and thermoregulation becomes super thermoregulation becomes super thermoregulation becomes super complicated and not as sexy as skeletal complicated and not as sexy as skeletal complicated and not as sexy as skeletal muscle blood flow so that's why muscle blood flow so that's why muscle blood flow so that's why Blood there's uh it was that was a fun Blood there's uh it was that was a fun Blood there's uh it was that was a fun adventure in itself too with a bunch of adventure in itself too with a bunch of adventure in itself too with a bunch of kind of new findings and whatnot kind of new findings and whatnot kind of new findings and whatnot so is this what explain why so is this what explain why so is this what explain why athletes then could literally athletes then could literally athletes then could literally potentially drive themselves into heat potentially drive themselves into heat potentially drive themselves into heat stroke because they are maintaining stroke because they are maintaining stroke because they are maintaining pressure they're literally overriding pressure they're literally overriding pressure they're literally overriding the thermoregulatory signals it's the thermoregulatory signals it's the thermoregulatory signals it's telling their body this goes into Tim telling their body this goes into Tim telling their body this goes into Tim though Central Governor hypothesis or though Central Governor hypothesis or though Central Governor hypothesis or whatever hypothesis you want to use that whatever hypothesis you want to use that whatever hypothesis you want to use that I'm so determined I'm going to make it I'm so determined I'm going to make it I'm so determined I'm going to make it across this Finish Line and I'm still
31:00across this Finish Line and I'm still across this Finish Line and I'm still prioritizing blood pressure so my brain prioritizing blood pressure so my brain prioritizing blood pressure so my brain is still semi-operational despite my is still semi-operational despite my is still semi-operational despite my core temperature now becoming core temperature now becoming core temperature now becoming potentially dangerous until it hits a potentially dangerous until it hits a potentially dangerous until it hits a certain point where it's just you you're certain point where it's just you you're certain point where it's just you you're going down no matter what like you've going down no matter what like you've going down no matter what like you've crossed the point of no return now crossed the point of no return now crossed the point of no return now absolutely and that's at least one of absolutely and that's at least one of absolutely and that's at least one of the reasons why yeah there's a whole the reasons why yeah there's a whole the reasons why yeah there's a whole bunch of reasons but but yeah exactly bunch of reasons but but yeah exactly bunch of reasons but but yeah exactly but from a physiological and physics but from a physiological and physics but from a physiological and physics perspective 100 percent blood pressure perspective 100 percent blood pressure perspective 100 percent blood pressure is really working to try and is really working to try and is really working to try and re-establish itself and a lot of the re-establish itself and a lot of the re-establish itself and a lot of the work I did at Yale when I was down there work I did at Yale when I was down there work I did at Yale when I was down there doing starting my PhD doing starting my PhD doing starting my PhD the we looked at we were looking at the the we looked at we were looking at the the we looked at we were looking at the same thing but looking in looking at it same thing but looking in looking at it same thing but looking in looking at it in counter measures for space flight in counter measures for space flight in counter measures for space flight because let's say where and because because let's say where and because because let's say where and because they're in outer space and now all of a they're in outer space and now all of a they're in outer space and now all of a sudden we have a completely opposite sudden we have a completely opposite sudden we have a completely opposite thing right because longer wrecking our thing right because longer wrecking our thing right because longer wrecking our blood pressure and everything fluid blood pressure and everything fluid blood pressure and everything fluid shift up fluid shifts and everything and shift up fluid shifts and everything and shift up fluid shifts and everything and and that was really fun because we got and that was really fun because we got and that was really fun because we got into studying what the actual peptide into studying what the actual peptide into studying what the actual peptide transmitters were that were releasing transmitters were that were releasing transmitters were that were releasing that were released during heat stress to
32:00that were released during heat stress to that were released during heat stress to turn on sweating so we looked like turn on sweating so we looked like turn on sweating so we looked like histamines and all these other different histamines and all these other different histamines and all these other different things and we end up realizing that cgrp things and we end up realizing that cgrp things and we end up realizing that cgrp which is normally no susception pain which is normally no susception pain which is normally no susception pain cgrp actually is one of the ones that cgrp actually is one of the ones that cgrp actually is one of the ones that drive that drives sweating when we drive that drives sweating when we drive that drives sweating when we increase core temperatures and we did increase core temperatures and we did increase core temperatures and we did that through these really cool micro that through these really cool micro that through these really cool micro dialysis probes that I would insert dialysis probes that I would insert dialysis probes that I would insert using ultrasound guidance so you had to using ultrasound guidance so you had to using ultrasound guidance so you had to almost weave it through the skin it was almost weave it through the skin it was almost weave it through the skin it was a spinal tap needle is all it was oh a spinal tap needle is all it was oh a spinal tap needle is all it was oh yeah and then the spinal tap needle I yeah and then the spinal tap needle I yeah and then the spinal tap needle I put like these I made these put like these I made these put like these I made these microdialysis probes that we sterilized microdialysis probes that we sterilized microdialysis probes that we sterilized I made those under the micro microscope I made those under the micro microscope I made those under the micro microscope and we and then we didn't put those in and we and then we didn't put those in and we and then we didn't put those in and then we just run an infusion pump and then we just run an infusion pump and then we just run an infusion pump through it at a certain rate and then through it at a certain rate and then through it at a certain rate and then we'd collect the effluent it's just it we'd collect the effluent it's just it we'd collect the effluent it's just it was just a buffer at the other side and was just a buffer at the other side and was just a buffer at the other side and I'd run it through a radioactive Eliza I'd run it through a radioactive Eliza I'd run it through a radioactive Eliza and or a radioactive sorry assay and and or a radioactive sorry assay and and or a radioactive sorry assay and we'd and then we just measured measure we'd and then we just measured measure we'd and then we just measured measure the levels of whatever was in the blood the levels of whatever was in the blood the levels of whatever was in the blood we just did a panel and we found that we just did a panel and we found that we just did a panel and we found that cgrp was one of the ones that went up cgrp was one of the ones that went up cgrp was one of the ones that went up but what was really cool in those but what was really cool in those but what was really cool in those studies was we were trying to tease out studies was we were trying to tease out studies was we were trying to tease out the inputs of parasympathetic and the inputs of parasympathetic and the inputs of parasympathetic and sympathetic nerve activity on this heat
33:00sympathetic nerve activity on this heat sympathetic nerve activity on this heat response and because of the barrel response and because of the barrel response and because of the barrel reflex response so bear of the barrel reflex response so bear of the barrel reflex response so bear of the barrel reflexes what means our blood pressure reflexes what means our blood pressure reflexes what means our blood pressure at certain set points and that changes at certain set points and that changes at certain set points and that changes when we go to outer space when we go to outer space when we go to outer space this is a really important question for this is a really important question for this is a really important question for us to understand is can we measure heart us to understand is can we measure heart us to understand is can we measure heart rate variability in these aspects and be rate variability in these aspects and be rate variability in these aspects and be able to predict different things and able to predict different things and able to predict different things and then can we do counter measures like then can we do counter measures like then can we do counter measures like exercise can we give like plasma exercise can we give like plasma exercise can we give like plasma plasmapheresis these kind of things to plasmapheresis these kind of things to plasmapheresis these kind of things to try and circumvent some of the issues try and circumvent some of the issues try and circumvent some of the issues that they have with space flight that they have with space flight that they have with space flight and that was where we developed all and that was where we developed all and that was where we developed all these algorithms for heart rate these algorithms for heart rate these algorithms for heart rate variability because we didn't have any variability because we didn't have any variability because we didn't have any other way to measure it except for other way to measure it except for other way to measure it except for through an EKG and then actually do you through an EKG and then actually do you through an EKG and then actually do you know the mathematical Transformations so know the mathematical Transformations so know the mathematical Transformations so the phosphoria Transformations and the phosphoria Transformations and the phosphoria Transformations and whatnot turn them into spectral data and whatnot turn them into spectral data and whatnot turn them into spectral data and that was really I really enjoyed that I that was really I really enjoyed that I that was really I really enjoyed that I loved seeing that come to fruition and loved seeing that come to fruition and loved seeing that come to fruition and like you said at the beginning like you said at the beginning like you said at the beginning if I'd if I had the foresight and I if I'd if I had the foresight and I if I'd if I had the foresight and I wasn't just such an academic at the time wasn't just such an academic at the time wasn't just such an academic at the time I would have totally tried to patent I would have totally tried to patent I would have totally tried to patent this procedure for Just Fitness right so
34:00this procedure for Just Fitness right so this procedure for Just Fitness right so we end up using it like in all Fitness we end up using it like in all Fitness we end up using it like in all Fitness things after that we were using EKG and things after that we were using EKG and things after that we were using EKG and running these algorithms that we running these algorithms that we running these algorithms that we developed in Matlab like for years after developed in Matlab like for years after developed in Matlab like for years after yeah unfortunately we didn't get on the yeah unfortunately we didn't get on the yeah unfortunately we didn't get on the bandwagon early enough now I have to pay bandwagon early enough now I have to pay bandwagon early enough now I have to pay for the devices I know nobody did like I for the devices I know nobody did like I for the devices I know nobody did like I was doing HRV stuff I still remember was doing HRV stuff I still remember was doing HRV stuff I still remember transferring to the exercise physics transferring to the exercise physics transferring to the exercise physics department department department didn't want to do any more math anymore didn't want to do any more math anymore didn't want to do any more math anymore to the masters of mechanical engineering to the masters of mechanical engineering to the masters of mechanical engineering did five years of PhD student and did five years of PhD student and did five years of PhD student and exercise or I'm sorry biomedical exercise or I'm sorry biomedical exercise or I'm sorry biomedical engineering engineering engineering and even then we had the old school ten and even then we had the old school ten and even then we had the old school ten thousand dollars of used equipment thousand dollars of used equipment thousand dollars of used equipment because the issue was trying to find the because the issue was trying to find the because the issue was trying to find the peak of the r wave all right so for peak of the r wave all right so for peak of the r wave all right so for listeners you have to accurately measure listeners you have to accurately measure listeners you have to accurately measure one our wave to the next so imagine you one our wave to the next so imagine you one our wave to the next so imagine you have to be super accurate with how have to be super accurate with how have to be super accurate with how you're measuring heart rate in essence you're measuring heart rate in essence you're measuring heart rate in essence and if it varies just a little bit and and if it varies just a little bit and and if it varies just a little bit and that's noise then your whole thing is that's noise then your whole thing is that's noise then your whole thing is just screwed anyway so we had to make just screwed anyway so we had to make just screwed anyway so we had to make sure we got that and then I had to write sure we got that and then I had to write sure we got that and then I had to write a specific Matlab code to transfer all a specific Matlab code to transfer all a specific Matlab code to transfer all of that data and luckily at that time
35:00of that data and luckily at that time of that data and luckily at that time they had subios in Finland had just put they had subios in Finland had just put they had subios in Finland had just put out their software so I found that and I out their software so I found that and I out their software so I found that and I was able to put in the RR intervals and was able to put in the RR intervals and was able to put in the RR intervals and I didn't have to write any more code to I didn't have to write any more code to I didn't have to write any more code to do all the rest of it but yeah even then do all the rest of it but yeah even then do all the rest of it but yeah even then it's like it's like it's like if I would have known enough to be like if I would have known enough to be like if I would have known enough to be like oh someone should probably standardize oh someone should probably standardize oh someone should probably standardize these types of things it was like each these types of things it was like each these types of things it was like each lab was doing their own and the lab was doing their own and the lab was doing their own and the Assumption was hey if you've got our Assumption was hey if you've got our Assumption was hey if you've got our animals that HR must be like most of animals that HR must be like most of animals that HR must be like most of peer reviews didn't know enough math and peer reviews didn't know enough math and peer reviews didn't know enough math and exercise Fizz to actually say if you exercise Fizz to actually say if you exercise Fizz to actually say if you were doing it correct or not and it was were doing it correct or not and it was were doing it correct or not and it was just kind of like the wild west yeah just kind of like the wild west yeah just kind of like the wild west yeah yeah it is funny because we so I had a yeah it is funny because we so I had a yeah it is funny because we so I had a real control freak all actually all of real control freak all actually all of real control freak all actually all of my supervisors were control freaks I'm a control freak but really I'm a control freak but really interesting because these guys actually interesting because these guys actually interesting because these guys actually would make me do all these crazy pilot would make me do all these crazy pilot would make me do all these crazy pilot experiments proof of principle and a experiments proof of principle and a experiments proof of principle and a three those kind of things for the three those kind of things for the three those kind of things for the papers and so we actually would do the papers and so we actually would do the papers and so we actually would do the Fourier Transformations get the get all Fourier Transformations get the get all Fourier Transformations get the get all the peaks of the very low very low the peaks of the very low very low the peaks of the very low very low frequency high frequency all these
36:00frequency high frequency all these frequency high frequency all these different Peaks and then we go in and different Peaks and then we go in and different Peaks and then we go in and inject phentolamine or prices in and inject phentolamine or prices in and inject phentolamine or prices in and then see how we change them to prove then see how we change them to prove then see how we change them to prove that our algorithm actually worked so that our algorithm actually worked so that our algorithm actually worked so knock out parasympathetic with atropine knock out parasympathetic with atropine knock out parasympathetic with atropine in these guys and that's what I loved in these guys and that's what I loved in these guys and that's what I loved about being at Yale because the human about being at Yale because the human about being at Yale because the human investigations committee let us do these investigations committee let us do these investigations committee let us do these crazy things like you'd only see in crazy things like you'd only see in crazy things like you'd only see in Sweden and stuff and it was purely Sweden and stuff and it was purely Sweden and stuff and it was purely because we were part of this I was in because we were part of this I was in because we were part of this I was in the John B Pierce laboratory which was the John B Pierce laboratory which was the John B Pierce laboratory which was an environmental medicine lab from like an environmental medicine lab from like an environmental medicine lab from like the 1800s and had been around for so the 1800s and had been around for so the 1800s and had been around for so long they just we were allowed to do long they just we were allowed to do long they just we were allowed to do these things and that was really where I these things and that was really where I these things and that was really where I really gained a lot of insight into the really gained a lot of insight into the really gained a lot of insight into the proper methods for actually proper methods for actually proper methods for actually understanding Fourier transformation and understanding Fourier transformation and understanding Fourier transformation and it's funny because you don't see any of it's funny because you don't see any of it's funny because you don't see any of those data for any of these wearables those data for any of these wearables those data for any of these wearables now so now so now so 11 or 1200 bucks for this watch 11 or 1200 bucks for this watch 11 or 1200 bucks for this watch and yet the algorithms are all secret and yet the algorithms are all secret and yet the algorithms are all secret like they're buried so this is what this like they're buried so this is what this like they're buried so this is what this is something that's always bothered me is something that's always bothered me is something that's always bothered me because like you said I'm finding the
37:00because like you said I'm finding the because like you said I'm finding the Peaks and doing all these things what Peaks and doing all these things what Peaks and doing all these things what kind of statistical analyzes do these kind of statistical analyzes do these kind of statistical analyzes do these devices run to make sure we're actually devices run to make sure we're actually devices run to make sure we're actually getting what we say we're getting and getting what we say we're getting and getting what we say we're getting and that's the interesting part about it I'm that's the interesting part about it I'm that's the interesting part about it I'm sure they go through a lot of averaging sure they go through a lot of averaging sure they go through a lot of averaging is probably what they do uh but is probably what they do uh but is probably what they do uh but especially the early humans now are especially the early humans now are especially the early humans now are actually pretty decent but the early actually pretty decent but the early actually pretty decent but the early Optical stuff off the wrist if you look Optical stuff off the wrist if you look Optical stuff off the wrist if you look at that raw data is not clean at all at that raw data is not clean at all at that raw data is not clean at all it's really messy and you're also it's really messy and you're also it's really messy and you're also looking at a waveform you're not looking looking at a waveform you're not looking looking at a waveform you're not looking at the electrical signal so I talked to at the electrical signal so I talked to at the electrical signal so I talked to the guys at Aura when they came out the guys at Aura when they came out the guys at Aura when they came out early on early on early on they actually went and used the finger they actually went and used the finger they actually went and used the finger location because the signal they could location because the signal they could location because the signal they could get was so much cleaner and so then they get was so much cleaner and so then they get was so much cleaner and so then they poached a bunch of people from basically poached a bunch of people from basically poached a bunch of people from basically a lot of the heart rate stuff they did a lot of the heart rate stuff they did a lot of the heart rate stuff they did in Finland and in Finland and in Finland and told a bunch of their engineers and had told a bunch of their engineers and had told a bunch of their engineers and had them figure it out because if you looked them figure it out because if you looked them figure it out because if you looked at their raw data you could see the at their raw data you could see the at their raw data you could see the waveform like super clear and that made waveform like super clear and that made waveform like super clear and that made it a lot easier for them to figure it it a lot easier for them to figure it it a lot easier for them to figure it out but yeah even now like I've out but yeah even now like I've out but yeah even now like I've I think I've lost almost like every HRV I think I've lost almost like every HRV
38:00I think I've lost almost like every HRV Consulting contract I've ever had an Consulting contract I've ever had an Consulting contract I've ever had an interview with because it almost always interview with because it almost always interview with because it almost always goes like the same way that's okay goes like the same way that's okay goes like the same way that's okay what's your Herobrine idea for each of what's your Herobrine idea for each of what's your Herobrine idea for each of you want to just do a free policy if I'm you want to just do a free policy if I'm you want to just do a free policy if I'm interested in helping you out and I'm interested in helping you out and I'm interested in helping you out and I'm like okay yeah that's basically a stupid like okay yeah that's basically a stupid like okay yeah that's basically a stupid idea that's not gonna work very well yes idea that's not gonna work very well yes idea that's not gonna work very well yes and here's why and they're like well we and here's why and they're like well we and here's why and they're like well we already have 80 of it done and we're already have 80 of it done and we're already have 80 of it done and we're gonna do this and I'm like okay so gonna do this and I'm like okay so gonna do this and I'm like okay so you're gonna do HRV benefits accurate you're gonna do HRV benefits accurate you're gonna do HRV benefits accurate with no context at all like what if with no context at all like what if with no context at all like what if they're exercising you're telling their they're exercising you're telling their they're exercising you're telling their HRV sucks and it's a horrible thing just HRV sucks and it's a horrible thing just HRV sucks and it's a horrible thing just cross-check it against the accelerometer cross-check it against the accelerometer cross-check it against the accelerometer there's ways around these things they're there's ways around these things they're there's ways around these things they're like oh and then they all get mad at me like oh and then they all get mad at me like oh and then they all get mad at me and I just lose the contract anyway and I just lose the contract anyway and I just lose the contract anyway again it's funny because we've had I've again it's funny because we've had I've again it's funny because we've had I've had people like contact me when I have had people like contact me when I have had people like contact me when I have my lab like a couple years ago similar my lab like a couple years ago similar my lab like a couple years ago similar idea and it's funny because generally idea and it's funny because generally idea and it's funny because generally these companies will come to you when these companies will come to you when these companies will come to you when they've already developed the product they've already developed the product they've already developed the product yep yep yep you put your doctorate behind it and say you put your doctorate behind it and say you put your doctorate behind it and say this is sweet this thing's awesome and this is sweet this thing's awesome and this is sweet this thing's awesome and what they're not realizing is these what they're not realizing is these what they're not realizing is these lifetime academics like you and myself
39:00lifetime academics like you and myself lifetime academics like you and myself of course work on the nerves and you of course work on the nerves and you of course work on the nerves and you want to contact us at the beginning of want to contact us at the beginning of want to contact us at the beginning of the project because chances are there's the project because chances are there's the project because chances are there's going to be something in there that our going to be something in there that our going to be something in there that our expertise can help you with but I tend expertise can help you with but I tend expertise can help you with but I tend to find yeah a lot of companies are to find yeah a lot of companies are to find yeah a lot of companies are they've already developed their product they've already developed their product they've already developed their product and they just want the they want the and they just want the they want the and they just want the they want the press release right press release right press release right yeah and that's the nice part also about yeah and that's the nice part also about yeah and that's the nice part also about I realized very early on was after I I realized very early on was after I I realized very early on was after I left Academia was left Academia was left Academia was if I have won my own distribution if I have won my own distribution if I have won my own distribution Network like through a newsletter or Network like through a newsletter or Network like through a newsletter or social media or whatever you want to use social media or whatever you want to use social media or whatever you want to use and I have money that comes from most of and I have money that comes from most of and I have money that comes from most of my money comes from actual clients I my money comes from actual clients I my money comes from actual clients I don't need industry money I don't have don't need industry money I don't have don't need industry money I don't have to consult with this other whiz-bang to consult with this other whiz-bang to consult with this other whiz-bang crazy ass supplement company or wacky crazy ass supplement company or wacky crazy ass supplement company or wacky HRV Tech whatever I can just walk away HRV Tech whatever I can just walk away HRV Tech whatever I can just walk away and be like and be like and be like no not gonna work but I get it where if no not gonna work but I get it where if no not gonna work but I get it where if I had just graduated them a hundred I had just graduated them a hundred I had just graduated them a hundred thousand dollars in debt I've got a thousand dollars in debt I've got a thousand dollars in debt I've got a house payment I've got all these other house payment I've got all these other house payment I've got all these other things mounting up and someone's going things mounting up and someone's going things mounting up and someone's going to be like to be like to be like we're gonna get five to ten Grand a we're gonna get five to ten Grand a we're gonna get five to ten Grand a month just ask for your opinion who
40:00month just ask for your opinion who month just ask for your opinion who knows what will happen after that it's knows what will happen after that it's knows what will happen after that it's yeah I probably would have said yes as yeah I probably would have said yes as yeah I probably would have said yes as much as I want to sit here and be like much as I want to sit here and be like much as I want to sit here and be like oh I'd never do that I don't know I oh I'd never do that I don't know I oh I'd never do that I don't know I don't want to be in that position and don't want to be in that position and don't want to be in that position and find out what I would do yeah I know it find out what I would do yeah I know it find out what I would do yeah I know it is a for it is a fortunate thing to come is a for it is a fortunate thing to come is a for it is a fortunate thing to come into the fitness realm after you've into the fitness realm after you've into the fitness realm after you've developed your your expertise mainly developed your your expertise mainly developed your your expertise mainly like you said because you can pick and like you said because you can pick and like you said because you can pick and choose that's why I love that I left choose that's why I love that I left choose that's why I love that I left Academia for pretty much that reason I Academia for pretty much that reason I Academia for pretty much that reason I 16 years as a tenured medical professor 16 years as a tenured medical professor 16 years as a tenured medical professor in medical biophysics absolutely loved in medical biophysics absolutely loved in medical biophysics absolutely loved my job loved Academia but to realize my job loved Academia but to realize my job loved Academia but to realize that outgrew the institution quite that outgrew the institution quite that outgrew the institution quite quickly just just because I couldn't quickly just just because I couldn't quickly just just because I couldn't disseminate my knowledge without being disseminate my knowledge without being disseminate my knowledge without being completely chastised all the time completely chastised all the time completely chastised all the time because they want asses in seats and because they want asses in seats and because they want asses in seats and when you're helping people for free when you're helping people for free when you're helping people for free you're not getting any asses in seats you're not getting any asses in seats you're not getting any asses in seats even though I would fill my classroom even though I would fill my classroom even though I would fill my classroom twofold what I was supposed to have in twofold what I was supposed to have in twofold what I was supposed to have in it just because it just because it just because yeah so it's fine it's funny because yeah so it's fine it's funny because yeah so it's fine it's funny because the academic thing definitely Academia was was a dream for me I loved Academia was was a dream for me I loved it all the way through until probably
41:00it all the way through until probably it all the way through until probably the last until I became a chair of a the last until I became a chair of a the last until I became a chair of a department yeah that's usually where department yeah that's usually where department yeah that's usually where people are like uh oh what did I do yeah people are like uh oh what did I do yeah people are like uh oh what did I do yeah medicine and I realized I got sitting in medicine and I realized I got sitting in medicine and I realized I got sitting in the back back room meetings and realized the back back room meetings and realized the back back room meetings and realized that I'm just part of a big business and that I'm just part of a big business and that I'm just part of a big business and if I I might be solving all the blood if I I might be solving all the blood if I I might be solving all the blood flow mysteries in the world about blood flow mysteries in the world about blood flow mysteries in the world about blood pressure regulation and whatnot but if pressure regulation and whatnot but if pressure regulation and whatnot but if it doesn't if it's not going to develop it doesn't if it's not going to develop it doesn't if it's not going to develop a item that the university can't take 50 a item that the university can't take 50 a item that the university can't take 50 of with their with the patent then they of with their with the patent then they of with their with the patent then they don't want to know about it it's funny don't want to know about it it's funny don't want to know about it it's funny you mentioned about you can make your you mentioned about you can make your you mentioned about you can make your money other ways that selling your soul money other ways that selling your soul money other ways that selling your soul so I actually funded my lab and I had a so I actually funded my lab and I had a so I actually funded my lab and I had a massive lab I had a 2 000 square foot massive lab I had a 2 000 square foot massive lab I had a 2 000 square foot lab with everything from live animal lab with everything from live animal lab with everything from live animal research cell culture a full genetics research cell culture a full genetics research cell culture a full genetics lab I had cancer programs going on lab I had cancer programs going on lab I had cancer programs going on everything was under the under the idea everything was under the under the idea everything was under the under the idea of autonomic nervous system regulation of autonomic nervous system regulation of autonomic nervous system regulation and stress and I had about 11 or 12 and stress and I had about 11 or 12 and stress and I had about 11 or 12 people in my lab working for me people in my lab working for me people in my lab working for me and it was funny because it was that and it was funny because it was that and it was funny because it was that part was all fun until I realized that I part was all fun until I realized that I part was all fun until I realized that I had lots of Grants everything else until had lots of Grants everything else until
42:00had lots of Grants everything else until I realized that my colleagues were just I realized that my colleagues were just I realized that my colleagues were just getting big grants with widgets so being getting big grants with widgets so being getting big grants with widgets so being inbox right their widget would be say an inbox right their widget would be say an inbox right their widget would be say an MRI MRI MRI they had no they were engineers or they they had no they were engineers or they they had no they were engineers or they were physicists or whatever they had no were physicists or whatever they had no were physicists or whatever they had no idea about physiology that's why I was idea about physiology that's why I was idea about physiology that's why I was actually brought into the department actually brought into the department actually brought into the department but they would just say Okay so widget but they would just say Okay so widget but they would just say Okay so widget do fatty liver disease and then write a do fatty liver disease and then write a do fatty liver disease and then write a grant they would get it because they had grant they would get it because they had grant they would get it because they had the spaceship Enterprise right to study the spaceship Enterprise right to study the spaceship Enterprise right to study liver disease but they were studying the liver disease but they were studying the liver disease but they were studying the same [ __ ] they were doing the 70s with same [ __ ] they were doing the 70s with same [ __ ] they were doing the 70s with microscopes so to me it was like the microscopes so to me it was like the microscopes so to me it was like the answers weren't any different that came answers weren't any different that came answers weren't any different that came out and yet these were like out and yet these were like out and yet these were like multi-million dollar grants because they multi-million dollar grants because they multi-million dollar grants because they needed multi-million to run an MRI needed multi-million to run an MRI needed multi-million to run an MRI oh yeah MRIs extremely expensive oh yeah MRIs extremely expensive oh yeah MRIs extremely expensive and we have and we had we have we had and we have and we had we have we had and we have and we had we have we had over at robarts Research Institute like over at robarts Research Institute like over at robarts Research Institute like a dozen of them that were being used a dozen of them that were being used a dozen of them that were being used clinical scanners that were being used clinical scanners that were being used clinical scanners that were being used for rodent studies so interesting there for rodent studies so interesting there for rodent studies so interesting there too when you have to wait for an MRI but too when you have to wait for an MRI but too when you have to wait for an MRI but anyway anyway anyway point is that for me I sort of become point is that for me I sort of become point is that for me I sort of become disenchanted as I was in the back rooms disenchanted as I was in the back rooms disenchanted as I was in the back rooms talking about how things go down and
43:00talking about how things go down and talking about how things go down and realized pretty suddenly that I was part realized pretty suddenly that I was part realized pretty suddenly that I was part of The Wizard of Oz and that I finally of The Wizard of Oz and that I finally of The Wizard of Oz and that I finally seen the wizard it was time to time did seen the wizard it was time to time did seen the wizard it was time to time did not have that disenchantment because I not have that disenchantment because I not have that disenchantment because I because I just love I love education so because I just love I love education so because I just love I love education so it's like you said it's way better to do it's like you said it's way better to do it's like you said it's way better to do it outside of Academia and it's really it outside of Academia and it's really it outside of Academia and it's really fun because you get to help people like fun because you get to help people like fun because you get to help people like the actual people on the ground you're the actual people on the ground you're the actual people on the ground you're not just not just a bunch of kids in the not just not just a bunch of kids in the not just not just a bunch of kids in the classroom that have paid nine grand or classroom that have paid nine grand or classroom that have paid nine grand or whatever for tuition whatever for tuition whatever for tuition yeah and that's kind of I still adjunct yeah and that's kind of I still adjunct yeah and that's kind of I still adjunct to the couple places primarily online to the couple places primarily online to the couple places primarily online the last time I taught in person was at the last time I taught in person was at the last time I taught in person was at St Thomas as an adjunct and it was great St Thomas as an adjunct and it was great St Thomas as an adjunct and it was great the University was awesome like all the the University was awesome like all the the University was awesome like all the instructors are great like most the instructors are great like most the instructors are great like most the students were awesome in the labs they students were awesome in the labs they students were awesome in the labs they had to parvo metabolic cards so we got had to parvo metabolic cards so we got had to parvo metabolic cards so we got to do great stuff to do great stuff to do great stuff but half the students I'm like why are but half the students I'm like why are but half the students I'm like why are you paying an obscene amount of money to you paying an obscene amount of money to you paying an obscene amount of money to be here you could not be more be here you could not be more be here you could not be more disinterested and I could be up here disinterested and I could be up here disinterested and I could be up here juggling flaming balls and you'd be like juggling flaming balls and you'd be like juggling flaming balls and you'd be like it wasn't everyone like half the it wasn't everyone like half the it wasn't everyone like half the students were pretty good and they've students were pretty good and they've students were pretty good and they've been to it and we're trying I didn't been to it and we're trying I didn't been to it and we're trying I didn't have her just
44:00have her just have her just it's a ticket no it was weird where you it's a ticket no it was weird where you it's a ticket no it was weird where you go to a private event and I realized go to a private event and I realized go to a private event and I realized that oh all these people paid out of that oh all these people paid out of that oh all these people paid out of their own pocket to show up and a lot of their own pocket to show up and a lot of their own pocket to show up and a lot of it even the two three four five hundred it even the two three four five hundred it even the two three four five hundred dollar events like that adds up with dollar events like that adds up with dollar events like that adds up with travel everything else if you're a travel everything else if you're a travel everything else if you're a trainer you gotta take time off so now trainer you gotta take time off so now trainer you gotta take time off so now you're not working with clients you're you're not working with clients you're you're not working with clients you're not making money during that time but not making money during that time but not making money during that time but those people who did all that were those people who did all that were those people who did all that were committed like they really wanted to committed like they really wanted to committed like they really wanted to learn they asked better questions and so learn they asked better questions and so learn they asked better questions and so I realized I'm like oh I actually like I realized I'm like oh I actually like I realized I'm like oh I actually like teaching in the private sector better teaching in the private sector better teaching in the private sector better than I did in Academia and I was like oh than I did in Academia and I was like oh than I did in Academia and I was like oh and then the last straw was that and then the last straw was that and then the last straw was that I think even now it's becoming where I I think even now it's becoming where I I think even now it's becoming where I could still do some research I could could still do some research I could could still do some research I could still help with papers I knew enough still help with papers I knew enough still help with papers I knew enough people where if a buddy of mine in people where if a buddy of mine in people where if a buddy of mine in California I said hey man you're doing California I said hey man you're doing California I said hey man you're doing this new study if I can get three weeks this new study if I can get three weeks this new study if I can get three weeks off my wife will let me travel can I off my wife will let me travel can I off my wife will let me travel can I help you with data collection I'm like help you with data collection I'm like help you with data collection I'm like you don't even need to pay me as long as you don't even need to pay me as long as you don't even need to pay me as long as he knows I'm skilled in that area he's he knows I'm skilled in that area he's he knows I'm skilled in that area he's not going to turn down like not going to turn down like not going to turn down like pre-qualified help so even if I wanted
45:00pre-qualified help so even if I wanted pre-qualified help so even if I wanted to do it and I didn't need it for an to do it and I didn't need it for an to do it and I didn't need it for an income I could still do the things that income I could still do the things that income I could still do the things that I wanted to do and I got to pick what I wanted to do and I got to pick what I wanted to do and I got to pick what things I wanted to do instead of oh man things I wanted to do instead of oh man things I wanted to do instead of oh man I got to work on this widget or oh God I got to work on this widget or oh God I got to work on this widget or oh God I'd have to write a grand proposal I'd I'd have to write a grand proposal I'd I'd have to write a grand proposal I'd rather carve my right eyeball out with a rather carve my right eyeball out with a rather carve my right eyeball out with a dull spoon than do that dull spoon than do that dull spoon than do that that's where the academics got mad at me that's where the academics got mad at me that's where the academics got mad at me because I actually used my so I wrote because I actually used my so I wrote because I actually used my so I wrote for all the big magazines back back in for all the big magazines back back in for all the big magazines back back in back from about 98 to I still write for back from about 98 to I still write for back from about 98 to I still write for them now but they don't pay anymore till them now but they don't pay anymore till them now but they don't pay anymore till now that's when they actually paid money now that's when they actually paid money now that's when they actually paid money yeah and they paid a buck words so it yeah and they paid a buck words so it yeah and they paid a buck words so it was pretty good so I had yeah most was pretty good so I had yeah most was pretty good so I had yeah most months I had 10 to 20 000 words so yeah months I had 10 to 20 000 words so yeah months I had 10 to 20 000 words so yeah as a graduate student and into my first as a graduate student and into my first as a graduate student and into my first first couple years on the tenure track first couple years on the tenure track first couple years on the tenure track and so what I did was I was like okay so and so what I did was I was like okay so and so what I did was I was like okay so these papers that I get paid three these papers that I get paid three these papers that I get paid three thousand dollars for each take me like thousand dollars for each take me like thousand dollars for each take me like three or four hours three or four hours three or four hours now a grant takes me three or four now a grant takes me three or four now a grant takes me three or four months and the chance of getting it are months and the chance of getting it are months and the chance of getting it are under 10 yeah so I said I'm just gonna under 10 yeah so I said I'm just gonna under 10 yeah so I said I'm just gonna in order for me to have time with my in order for me to have time with my in order for me to have time with my friends be able to leave work at a good
46:00friends be able to leave work at a good friends be able to leave work at a good time and everything I'm just going to time and everything I'm just going to time and everything I'm just going to use my writing to find my lap use my writing to find my lap use my writing to find my lap so I funded my lab with my writing and so I funded my lab with my writing and so I funded my lab with my writing and it worked out to about probably several it worked out to about probably several it worked out to about probably several hundred thousand dollars a year and it hundred thousand dollars a year and it hundred thousand dollars a year and it was really neat because the department was really neat because the department was really neat because the department had no [ __ ] clue had no [ __ ] clue had no [ __ ] clue right with the funding I had even right with the funding I had even right with the funding I had even because I had so many students right because I had so many students right because I had so many students right they needed like millions of dollars in they needed like millions of dollars in they needed like millions of dollars in funding I had hundreds of thousands it funding I had hundreds of thousands it funding I had hundreds of thousands it worked out really well until people worked out really well until people worked out really well until people started getting jealous it was really started getting jealous it was really started getting jealous it was really interesting that's when I when you interesting that's when I when you interesting that's when I when you mentioned like the crowd that you're mentioned like the crowd that you're mentioned like the crowd that you're teaching to outside of the academy yeah teaching to outside of the academy yeah teaching to outside of the academy yeah it's like really neat because it's like really neat because it's like really neat because you don't get jealous people paying to you don't get jealous people paying to you don't get jealous people paying to go to a fitness conference or a health go to a fitness conference or a health go to a fitness conference or a health conference that you're putting on conference that you're putting on conference that you're putting on outside outside outside but if you go to experimental biology but if you go to experimental biology but if you go to experimental biology with your data which is what we used to with your data which is what we used to with your data which is what we used to do we used to go to three or four do we used to go to three or four do we used to go to three or four different conferences experimental different conferences experimental different conferences experimental biology was one of our bigger ones biology was one of our bigger ones biology was one of our bigger ones when you go there you're actually on the when you go there you're actually on the when you go there you're actually on the hot seat you're not there to tell people hot seat you're not there to tell people hot seat you're not there to tell people look at these amazing data that we've look at these amazing data that we've look at these amazing data that we've just put together what do you guys think
47:00just put together what do you guys think just put together what do you guys think it's more like my name is it's more like my name is it's more like my name is Dwayne Jackson University of Western Dwayne Jackson University of Western Dwayne Jackson University of Western Ontario so when you did this study we Ontario so when you did this study we Ontario so when you did this study we did this 10 years ago and you know right did this 10 years ago and you know right did this 10 years ago and you know right off the bat that this is not going to be off the bat that this is not going to be off the bat that this is not going to be a a conference where people are learning a a conference where people are learning a a conference where people are learning at it's going to be a place so I used to at it's going to be a place so I used to at it's going to be a place so I used to actually ask people was that a question actually ask people was that a question actually ask people was that a question or are you telling me and it was funny or are you telling me and it was funny or are you telling me and it was funny how offended these guys it would go up how offended these guys it would go up how offended these guys it would go up to the microphone and talk about their to the microphone and talk about their to the microphone and talk about their study to you while you're giving a talk study to you while you're giving a talk study to you while you're giving a talk in front of four or five hundred people in front of four or five hundred people in front of four or five hundred people how different that is like you said when how different that is like you said when how different that is like you said when you're doing this outside of that you're doing this outside of that you're doing this outside of that Club because it is a tiny little club Club because it is a tiny little club Club because it is a tiny little club and we think it's massive when we're in and we think it's massive when we're in and we think it's massive when we're in it when you go to the real big Club the it when you go to the real big Club the it when you go to the real big Club the people that come to see you because they people that come to see you because they people that come to see you because they actually want to learn something it's a actually want to learn something it's a actually want to learn something it's a completely different experience and even completely different experience and even completely different experience and even with you and I we're doing this talk with you and I we're doing this talk with you and I we're doing this talk right now really neat we have two right now really neat we have two right now really neat we have two complementary areas that we've studied complementary areas that we've studied complementary areas that we've studied in we've got lots in common we're around in we've got lots in common we're around in we've got lots in common we're around the same age everything is in line this the same age everything is in line this the same age everything is in line this wouldn't have occurred if it was too wouldn't have occurred if it was too wouldn't have occurred if it was too academics no no this would be two men
48:00academics no no this would be two men academics no no this would be two men especially if you met at this conference especially if you met at this conference especially if you met at this conference like like like Eva this would not have happened and Eva this would not have happened and Eva this would not have happened and what's really neat about it is like we'd what's really neat about it is like we'd what's really neat about it is like we'd be laying out all of our dowries so you be laying out all of our dowries so you be laying out all of our dowries so you can see them you could be like oh yeah can see them you could be like oh yeah can see them you could be like oh yeah here's what I did back in here's what I did back in here's what I did back in 1492 and it's really interesting because 1492 and it's really interesting because 1492 and it's really interesting because I found that and I still find it when I found that and I still find it when I found that and I still find it when I'm with academics I'm with academics I'm with academics my ego flares up my ego flares up my ego flares up I become a completely different person I become a completely different person I become a completely different person when I'm in an academic setting I'm sure when I'm in an academic setting I'm sure when I'm in an academic setting I'm sure you probably do too because you you've you probably do too because you you've you probably do too because you you've been indoctrine oh yeah oh yeah into the been indoctrine oh yeah oh yeah into the been indoctrine oh yeah oh yeah into the whole idea of oh they're scooping me whole idea of oh they're scooping me whole idea of oh they're scooping me like that used to drive me crazy like that used to drive me crazy like that used to drive me crazy someone's doing the same studies you're someone's doing the same studies you're someone's doing the same studies you're doing like they read the same freaking doing like they read the same freaking doing like they read the same freaking papers that you read inclusion and papers that you read inclusion and papers that you read inclusion and they're running a study out they didn't they're running a study out they didn't they're running a study out they didn't get scooped yeah get scooped yeah get scooped yeah like you just didn't work fast enough like you just didn't work fast enough like you just didn't work fast enough they got it out faster and so now they got it out faster and so now they got it out faster and so now nowadays it's really nice to be outside nowadays it's really nice to be outside nowadays it's really nice to be outside of that kind of Iron Curtain because you of that kind of Iron Curtain because you of that kind of Iron Curtain because you can like you said you can dance in it I can like you said you can dance in it I can like you said you can dance in it I have lots of friends the same thing that have lots of friends the same thing that have lots of friends the same thing that I can help them out with papers and do I can help them out with papers and do I can help them out with papers and do that kind of stuff if I want to do that kind of stuff if I want to do that kind of stuff if I want to do research I can in fact I have I have a research I can in fact I have I have a research I can in fact I have I have a bunch of blood lab work stuff here that
49:00bunch of blood lab work stuff here that bunch of blood lab work stuff here that I have I'm gonna get a metabolic card I have I'm gonna get a metabolic card I have I'm gonna get a metabolic card out here too nice you can play around out here too nice you can play around out here too nice you can play around but really at the end of the day okay but really at the end of the day okay but really at the end of the day okay it's in Academia I found it more it's in Academia I found it more it's in Academia I found it more complicated I made my grants the cooler complicated I made my grants the cooler complicated I made my grants the cooler I thought it was I thought it was I thought it was and showed him when I first jumped into and showed him when I first jumped into and showed him when I first jumped into the fitness realm because I was just the fitness realm because I was just the fitness realm because I was just like very wordy way too deep science like very wordy way too deep science like very wordy way too deep science with no application and then you also with no application and then you also with no application and then you also realize people just want to know the realize people just want to know the realize people just want to know the basic Foundation the 25 basic Foundation the 25 basic Foundation the 25 000 foot elevation view on this and then 000 foot elevation view on this and then 000 foot elevation view on this and then the actionable the actionable the actionable because they trust you this isn't like because they trust you this isn't like because they trust you this isn't like Academia where they're like oh I don't Academia where they're like oh I don't Academia where they're like oh I don't trust the scientist it's more so this trust the scientist it's more so this trust the scientist it's more so this person's here to help me I'm paying them person's here to help me I'm paying them person's here to help me I'm paying them good money to help me and I'm going to good money to help me and I'm going to good money to help me and I'm going to learn from them and I love that and I do learn from them and I love that and I do learn from them and I love that and I do the same thing I learned I learned Lots the same thing I learned I learned Lots the same thing I learned I learned Lots from that last conference that I met you from that last conference that I met you from that last conference that I met you at and it's the real coaches Summit and at and it's the real coaches Summit and at and it's the real coaches Summit and it's that's the way it should be it's that's the way it should be it's that's the way it should be learning from each other and growing learning from each other and growing learning from each other and growing yeah because it's and then we'll talk yeah because it's and then we'll talk yeah because it's and then we'll talk about your certification there too but about your certification there too but about your certification there too but when I did mine like the flex diet sir when I did mine like the flex diet sir when I did mine like the flex diet sir that was that was that was the biggest hurdle I was problem I was the biggest hurdle I was problem I was the biggest hurdle I was problem I was trying to solve is this has to be within
50:00trying to solve is this has to be within trying to solve is this has to be within a set amount of hours this isn't a a set amount of hours this isn't a a set amount of hours this isn't a college course right I'm covering college course right I'm covering college course right I'm covering everything from exercise to primary everything from exercise to primary everything from exercise to primary nutrition and recovery so I the first nutrition and recovery so I the first nutrition and recovery so I the first thing I did being an engineer is okay thing I did being an engineer is okay thing I did being an engineer is okay what are my constraints of the system what are my constraints of the system what are my constraints of the system right so I said okay so for each topic right so I said okay so for each topic right so I said okay so for each topic my technical my technical my technical lecture is only one hour so if it's lecture is only one hour so if it's lecture is only one hour so if it's protein dietary protein I have one hour protein dietary protein I have one hour protein dietary protein I have one hour to convey the technical aspects that a to convey the technical aspects that a to convey the technical aspects that a trainer would need to know and the trainer would need to know and the trainer would need to know and the carbohydrate one was the worst I redid carbohydrate one was the worst I redid carbohydrate one was the worst I redid that thing five times I got it down to I that thing five times I got it down to I that thing five times I got it down to I think an hour and 10 minutes but it think an hour and 10 minutes but it think an hour and 10 minutes but it would have been easier for me to do like would have been easier for me to do like would have been easier for me to do like a eight hour electron carbohydrates yeah a eight hour electron carbohydrates yeah a eight hour electron carbohydrates yeah would it have been as useful to anyone would it have been as useful to anyone would it have been as useful to anyone else hell no like less useful but then else hell no like less useful but then else hell no like less useful but then you've got other parts of the industry you've got other parts of the industry you've got other parts of the industry who who who everything is so simple it's not everything is so simple it's not everything is so simple it's not accurate anymore right so how do you accurate anymore right so how do you accurate anymore right so how do you find the happy medium of okay here's find the happy medium of okay here's find the happy medium of okay here's what we need to know here's what we what we need to know here's what we what we need to know here's what we think is going on here's the it's based think is going on here's the it's based think is going on here's the it's based on so go in this direction and then I
51:00on so go in this direction and then I on so go in this direction and then I added what I called the big picture added what I called the big picture added what I called the big picture which is like the context of how which is like the context of how which is like the context of how everything fits together I use metabolic everything fits together I use metabolic everything fits together I use metabolic flexibility as a theory and then you flexibility as a theory and then you flexibility as a theory and then you have like your five specific action have like your five specific action have like your five specific action items right okay now you know the big items right okay now you know the big items right okay now you know the big picture about how protein fits in a picture about how protein fits in a picture about how protein fits in a metabolic flexibility and now you've got metabolic flexibility and now you've got metabolic flexibility and now you've got your five action items for what do you your five action items for what do you your five action items for what do you actually explicitly do but that was like actually explicitly do but that was like actually explicitly do but that was like the hardest part for me to figure out the hardest part for me to figure out the hardest part for me to figure out he goes like yourself like didn't want he goes like yourself like didn't want he goes like yourself like didn't want it to be okay just eat more protein okay it to be okay just eat more protein okay it to be okay just eat more protein okay everybody knows that's probably not that everybody knows that's probably not that everybody knows that's probably not that useful so how do you make it useful useful so how do you make it useful useful so how do you make it useful enough but accurate that people actually enough but accurate that people actually enough but accurate that people actually can learn from it and do the things that can learn from it and do the things that can learn from it and do the things that you want them to do which that's it but you want them to do which that's it but you want them to do which that's it but it's a kind of it's a fun ever ongoing it's a kind of it's a fun ever ongoing it's a kind of it's a fun ever ongoing problem to try to solve too problem to try to solve too problem to try to solve too I agree and it's really neat too because I agree and it's really neat too because I agree and it's really neat too because it's ever changing because of like you it's ever changing because of like you it's ever changing because of like you said we have a little bit of a broken said we have a little bit of a broken said we have a little bit of a broken telephone in the industry and by the telephone in the industry and by the telephone in the industry and by the time things get filtered through several time things get filtered through several time things get filtered through several different years and miles and posts and different years and miles and posts and different years and miles and posts and everything else it's sometimes a everything else it's sometimes a everything else it's sometimes a completely different thing than it completely different thing than it completely different thing than it started as so it's it's funny like started as so it's it's funny like started as so it's it's funny like something as simple as post-exercise
52:00something as simple as post-exercise something as simple as post-exercise protein or post exercise eating it protein or post exercise eating it protein or post exercise eating it actually wasn't really a problem actually wasn't really a problem actually wasn't really a problem until people started fasting and then until people started fasting and then until people started fasting and then all of a sudden that that period became all of a sudden that that period became all of a sudden that that period became a thing but the problem is that all the a thing but the problem is that all the a thing but the problem is that all the old data from fed workouts that stated old data from fed workouts that stated old data from fed workouts that stated that post exercise if you've already had that post exercise if you've already had that post exercise if you've already had a relatively good protein carbohydrate a relatively good protein carbohydrate a relatively good protein carbohydrate meal before the training the post meal before the training the post meal before the training the post exercise window really isn't that exercise window really isn't that exercise window really isn't that important thing but it's more like a important thing but it's more like a important thing but it's more like a garage door and there's a paper that garage door and there's a paper that garage door and there's a paper that actually calls it that because it actually calls it that because it actually calls it that because it depends on how fed you are before the depends on how fed you are before the depends on how fed you are before the training session oh sure since most training session oh sure since most training session oh sure since most trainers now say there's no such thing trainers now say there's no such thing trainers now say there's no such thing as a post-workout anabolic window as a post-workout anabolic window as a post-workout anabolic window and it's no that's not what they're and it's no that's not what they're and it's no that's not what they're saying they're saying that if if you're saying they're saying that if if you're saying they're saying that if if you're in a Fed State the post-exercise metal in a Fed State the post-exercise metal in a Fed State the post-exercise metal anabolic window is just much larger it anabolic window is just much larger it anabolic window is just much larger it stays for you stays for you stays for you if you're going in fasted after 16 hours if you're going in fasted after 16 hours if you're going in fasted after 16 hours you want to get some amino acids in you want to get some amino acids in you want to get some amino acids in there and some carbs hopefully if you there and some carbs hopefully if you there and some carbs hopefully if you eat those kind of things after your eat those kind of things after your eat those kind of things after your training so it's really need help that's training so it's really need help that's training so it's really need help that's one that that's just one small example one that that's just one small example one that that's just one small example but that's an example of something but that's an example of something but that's an example of something that's been broken down and you
53:00that's been broken down and you that's been broken down and you obviously are teaching it with your obviously are teaching it with your obviously are teaching it with your course I'm teaching it mine and that is course I'm teaching it mine and that is course I'm teaching it mine and that is the I think having enough science in the I think having enough science in the I think having enough science in there really makes a difference and it's there really makes a difference and it's there really makes a difference and it's like you actually it's funny because I like you actually it's funny because I like you actually it's funny because I really struggled with digestion and really struggled with digestion and really struggled with digestion and Metabolism yes all substrates right and Metabolism yes all substrates right and Metabolism yes all substrates right and so what I did was uh yeah so carbs ended so what I did was uh yeah so carbs ended so what I did was uh yeah so carbs ended up being like like two hours I think oh up being like like two hours I think oh up being like like two hours I think oh that's not bad yeah it wasn't too bad that's not bad yeah it wasn't too bad that's not bad yeah it wasn't too bad because it was I really focused they're because it was I really focused they're because it was I really focused they're really holding in when everybody hates really holding in when everybody hates really holding in when everybody hates and that's uh that's the actual TCA and that's uh that's the actual TCA and that's uh that's the actual TCA cycle and then going into the cycle and then going into the cycle and then going into the respiratory chain for aerobic stuff and respiratory chain for aerobic stuff and respiratory chain for aerobic stuff and then the anaerobic calls us and what I then the anaerobic calls us and what I then the anaerobic calls us and what I did was I made it so that once I went did was I made it so that once I went did was I made it so that once I went through that I ad nauseum I showed them through that I ad nauseum I showed them through that I ad nauseum I showed them that fat and and protein can also feed that fat and and protein can also feed that fat and and protein can also feed into the same system as long as and then into the same system as long as and then into the same system as long as and then that's what that's it's made it easier that's what that's it's made it easier that's what that's it's made it easier for my protein and fat talks but you're for my protein and fat talks but you're for my protein and fat talks but you're right like it's it you can as academic right like it's it you can as academic right like it's it you can as academic if I really wanted to do the whole if I really wanted to do the whole if I really wanted to do the whole course on just one substrate because
54:00course on just one substrate because course on just one substrate because because just I felt like oh I'm not because just I felt like oh I'm not because just I felt like oh I'm not giving them everything and that's the giving them everything and that's the giving them everything and that's the nice part about this exercise for us as nice part about this exercise for us as nice part about this exercise for us as people from the academy people from the academy people from the academy because we also grow through this we because we also grow through this we because we also grow through this we also oh definitely we learn how to talk also oh definitely we learn how to talk also oh definitely we learn how to talk to the people that we weren't trained to to the people that we weren't trained to to the people that we weren't trained to talk to talk to talk to right we now learn being complicated right we now learn being complicated right we now learn being complicated actually goes against your business actually goes against your business actually goes against your business model even though that's what you're model even though that's what you're model even though that's what you're taught in Academia your way through taught in Academia your way through taught in Academia your way through things with big words things with big words things with big words and you also realize a lot of times that and you also realize a lot of times that and you also realize a lot of times that when people are defensive about their when people are defensive about their when people are defensive about their data it's because they maybe don't data it's because they maybe don't data it's because they maybe don't understand it because a lot of times you understand it because a lot of times you understand it because a lot of times you can't get a simple answer to them and as can't get a simple answer to them and as can't get a simple answer to them and as you're working on these courses yourself you're working on these courses yourself you're working on these courses yourself and I'm working on mine you realize that and I'm working on mine you realize that and I'm working on mine you realize that when you're taught in class was way when you're taught in class was way when you're taught in class was way convoluted and you can teach it way convoluted and you can teach it way convoluted and you can teach it way easier so yeah and then even I struggle easier so yeah and then even I struggle easier so yeah and then even I struggle with like with like with like how do I teach things that's how do I teach things that's how do I teach things that's accurate but accurate but accurate but may not necessarily be the way that was may not necessarily be the way that was may not necessarily be the way that was always taught so for for years I was always taught so for for years I was always taught so for for years I was taught like ATP PC is just 10 seconds
55:00taught like ATP PC is just 10 seconds taught like ATP PC is just 10 seconds and then you've got your glycolytic and then you've got your glycolytic and then you've got your glycolytic Pathways which are like a couple minutes Pathways which are like a couple minutes Pathways which are like a couple minutes and then you go into aerobic work and I and then you go into aerobic work and I and then you go into aerobic work and I remember seven years ago it was Aaron remember seven years ago it was Aaron remember seven years ago it was Aaron Davis had a Moxie so a nears unit on Davis had a Moxie so a nears unit on Davis had a Moxie so a nears unit on somebody's leg so looking at local blood somebody's leg so looking at local blood somebody's leg so looking at local blood flow in the leg sticks them on a rower flow in the leg sticks them on a rower flow in the leg sticks them on a rower has them do like a 30 second wind so has them do like a 30 second wind so has them do like a 30 second wind so just as hard as you can for 30 seconds just as hard as you can for 30 seconds just as hard as you can for 30 seconds and he's throwing the monitor of oxygen and he's throwing the monitor of oxygen and he's throwing the monitor of oxygen in the leg muscle and it starts at 85 in the leg muscle and it starts at 85 in the leg muscle and it starts at 85 percent and at the end of 30 seconds percent and at the end of 30 seconds percent and at the end of 30 seconds it's down to 15 percent it's down to 15 percent it's down to 15 percent I was like I was like I was like oh [ __ ] this makes no sense the oh [ __ ] this makes no sense the oh [ __ ] this makes no sense the monitor's got to be bad right it's got monitor's got to be bad right it's got monitor's got to be bad right it's got to be go through all this stuff met the to be go through all this stuff met the to be go through all this stuff met the guy who came up with the device blah guy who came up with the device blah guy who came up with the device blah blah blah blah and what you realize is and what you realize is and what you realize is so you're always using oxygen all the so you're always using oxygen all the so you're always using oxygen all the time just a different braids yeah and time just a different braids yeah and time just a different braids yeah and the simple model I was taught that I can the simple model I was taught that I can the simple model I was taught that I can plot textbooks off my shelf right now plot textbooks off my shelf right now plot textbooks off my shelf right now when I'm at home that still regurging when I'm at home that still regurging when I'm at home that still regurging like as soon as as soon as the a lactic like as soon as as soon as the a lactic like as soon as as soon as the a lactic system's burned out move on to anaerobic
56:00system's burned out move on to anaerobic system's burned out move on to anaerobic glycolysis right I don't move into yeah glycolysis right I don't move into yeah glycolysis right I don't move into yeah the aerobic glycolysis yeah exactly yeah the aerobic glycolysis yeah exactly yeah the aerobic glycolysis yeah exactly yeah and they're all just I think of it as and they're all just I think of it as and they're all just I think of it as like dials right you just got different like dials right you just got different like dials right you just got different rates that are showing up and then you rates that are showing up and then you rates that are showing up and then you got stuff like the glycogen shunt theory got stuff like the glycogen shunt theory got stuff like the glycogen shunt theory that throws a monkey wrench and all that that throws a monkey wrench and all that that throws a monkey wrench and all that a lot of Academia just poo-poos and so a lot of Academia just poo-poos and so a lot of Academia just poo-poos and so that doesn't matter and then they've got that doesn't matter and then they've got that doesn't matter and then they've got new ideas showing that yeah so it's I new ideas showing that yeah so it's I new ideas showing that yeah so it's I always struggle with those things too I always struggle with those things too I always struggle with those things too I don't want to just regurgitate all the don't want to just regurgitate all the don't want to just regurgitate all the stuff that I learned that I've now had stuff that I learned that I've now had stuff that I learned that I've now had to spend seven years trying to unlearn to spend seven years trying to unlearn to spend seven years trying to unlearn and it wasn't a hundred percent wrong and it wasn't a hundred percent wrong and it wasn't a hundred percent wrong but I don't think the mental model I but I don't think the mental model I but I don't think the mental model I built off it didn't mean any favors built off it didn't mean any favors built off it didn't mean any favors either so it's like how do you explain a either so it's like how do you explain a either so it's like how do you explain a little bit of a better mental model so little bit of a better mental model so little bit of a better mental model so that people can start from a higher that people can start from a higher that people can start from a higher level and not have to unlearn a bunch of level and not have to unlearn a bunch of level and not have to unlearn a bunch of stuff as it goes through I like it yeah stuff as it goes through I like it yeah stuff as it goes through I like it yeah I know I agree it's there's a lot of I know I agree it's there's a lot of I know I agree it's there's a lot of that stuff that goes on one of the one that stuff that goes on one of the one that stuff that goes on one of the one of the ones that right now in the not in of the ones that right now in the not in of the ones that right now in the not in Academia so not in biophysics anywhere Academia so not in biophysics anywhere Academia so not in biophysics anywhere where I came from but in in the fitness where I came from but in in the fitness where I came from but in in the fitness realm that's really messed stop I think
57:00realm that's really messed stop I think realm that's really messed stop I think is the control of autonomic nervous is the control of autonomic nervous is the control of autonomic nervous system function people that don't system function people that don't system function people that don't realize it's a balance again they think realize it's a balance again they think realize it's a balance again they think it's two they think parasympathetic you it's two they think parasympathetic you it's two they think parasympathetic you turn it on we're healthy sympathetic you turn it on we're healthy sympathetic you turn it on we're healthy sympathetic you turn it on we're unhealthy we're turn it on we're unhealthy we're turn it on we're unhealthy we're stressed out or if we turn it on it's stressed out or if we turn it on it's stressed out or if we turn it on it's during a stressful event and therefore during a stressful event and therefore during a stressful event and therefore we need that for those stressful events we need that for those stressful events we need that for those stressful events so it's just it's just a like you said a so it's just it's just a like you said a so it's just it's just a like you said a dial all right turn around they don't dial all right turn around they don't dial all right turn around they don't really realize the sympatho vehicle really realize the sympatho vehicle really realize the sympatho vehicle balance in a lot of cases and what's balance in a lot of cases and what's balance in a lot of cases and what's really neat about it is a lot of people really neat about it is a lot of people really neat about it is a lot of people don't actually realize that our don't actually realize that our don't actually realize that our sympathetic nervous system bursts on a sympathetic nervous system bursts on a sympathetic nervous system bursts on a Beat by beat basis now in humans like Beat by beat basis now in humans like Beat by beat basis now in humans like when we measure it in the peroneal when we measure it in the peroneal when we measure it in the peroneal nerves so we did some of this kind of nerves so we did some of this kind of nerves so we did some of this kind of work in the past in humans if you work in the past in humans if you work in the past in humans if you measure sympathetic nerve activity in measure sympathetic nerve activity in measure sympathetic nerve activity in humans it'll burst on the diastolic humans it'll burst on the diastolic humans it'll burst on the diastolic phase of every cardiac output or sorry a phase of every cardiac output or sorry a phase of every cardiac output or sorry a beat every cardiac output but the uh but beat every cardiac output but the uh but beat every cardiac output but the uh but not every single beat it just happens to not every single beat it just happens to not every single beat it just happens to be coherent with this falling of blood be coherent with this falling of blood be coherent with this falling of blood pressure in a single beat uh rodents pressure in a single beat uh rodents pressure in a single beat uh rodents will be rodents will burst a sympathetic will be rodents will burst a sympathetic will be rodents will burst a sympathetic nerve every single beat so we measure it nerve every single beat so we measure it nerve every single beat so we measure it in our rats or in our mice we hook onto
58:00in our rats or in our mice we hook onto in our rats or in our mice we hook onto the lumbar sympathetic Gene and you'll the lumbar sympathetic Gene and you'll the lumbar sympathetic Gene and you'll get a burst you'll get a burst that's get a burst you'll get a burst that's get a burst you'll get a burst that's coherent with the diastolic phase so the coherent with the diastolic phase so the coherent with the diastolic phase so the blood pressure so because the the blood pressure so because the the blood pressure so because the the sympathetic nerve the autonomic nerve sympathetic nerve the autonomic nerve sympathetic nerve the autonomic nerve system is entrained to the bare reflex system is entrained to the bare reflex system is entrained to the bare reflex then automatically when blood when blood then automatically when blood when blood then automatically when blood when blood pressure Falls during diastole pressure Falls during diastole pressure Falls during diastole we are going to see a possible burst we are going to see a possible burst we are going to see a possible burst there's a chance for a burst of activity there's a chance for a burst of activity there's a chance for a burst of activity the more stressed we get over time the the more stressed we get over time the the more stressed we get over time the more of those bursts show up more of those bursts show up more of those bursts show up so really it's a matter of how much so really it's a matter of how much so really it's a matter of how much parasympathetic nerve activity we have parasympathetic nerve activity we have parasympathetic nerve activity we have but we need that sympathetic to maintain but we need that sympathetic to maintain but we need that sympathetic to maintain blood pressure that's the only way that blood pressure that's the only way that blood pressure that's the only way that when I get up off this chair that I when I get up off this chair that I when I get up off this chair that I don't go horizontal and feel dizzy is don't go horizontal and feel dizzy is don't go horizontal and feel dizzy is simply because of those bare reflexes simply because of those bare reflexes simply because of those bare reflexes increasing the sympathetic component and increasing the sympathetic component and increasing the sympathetic component and withdrawing the parasympathetic withdrawing the parasympathetic withdrawing the parasympathetic component so I teach in my my classes in component so I teach in my my classes in component so I teach in my my classes in about we take out cardiomyocytes or we about we take out cardiomyocytes or we about we take out cardiomyocytes or we take out even a heart out of an animal take out even a heart out of an animal take out even a heart out of an animal model put it in a Petri dish with a
59:00model put it in a Petri dish with a model put it in a Petri dish with a buffer with glucose and electrolytes buffer with glucose and electrolytes buffer with glucose and electrolytes it'll sit and beat for a long time and it'll sit and beat for a long time and it'll sit and beat for a long time and you've probably seen this before you've probably seen this before you've probably seen this before and even reanimate them like the Arizona and even reanimate them like the Arizona and even reanimate them like the Arizona the invisible heart model where you use the invisible heart model where you use the invisible heart model where you use the correct blood flow or use a the correct blood flow or use a the correct blood flow or use a langendorf model or it's 100 what is it langendorf model or it's 100 what is it langendorf model or it's 100 what is it doing it yeah yeah and if you just take doing it yeah yeah and if you just take doing it yeah yeah and if you just take it out denervate it it just sits in that it out denervate it it just sits in that it out denervate it it just sits in that thing it's going to be it's going to sit thing it's going to be it's going to sit thing it's going to be it's going to sit there and beat at an intrinsic heart there and beat at an intrinsic heart there and beat at an intrinsic heart rate rate rate and that intrinsic heart rate in humans and that intrinsic heart rate in humans and that intrinsic heart rate in humans is around 100. yeah that's it and so is around 100. yeah that's it and so is around 100. yeah that's it and so automatically we know that when our automatically we know that when our automatically we know that when our heart rate's under 100 that we know that heart rate's under 100 that we know that heart rate's under 100 that we know that we're actually operating with more we're actually operating with more we're actually operating with more parasympathetic than sympathetic parasympathetic than sympathetic parasympathetic than sympathetic balanced and then as we get to 100 we're balanced and then as we get to 100 we're balanced and then as we get to 100 we're just withdrawing that parasympathetic just withdrawing that parasympathetic just withdrawing that parasympathetic nerve activity and then after that it's nerve activity and then after that it's nerve activity and then after that it's all sympathetic driven for heart rate so all sympathetic driven for heart rate so all sympathetic driven for heart rate so it's funny because that's one of the it's funny because that's one of the it's funny because that's one of the things I really try to get out there things I really try to get out there things I really try to get out there with people when they're talking about with people when they're talking about with people when they're talking about autonomic nervous system control and autonomic nervous system control and autonomic nervous system control and they say oh you gotta turn on the they say oh you gotta turn on the they say oh you gotta turn on the parasympathetic and turn off the parasympathetic and turn off the parasympathetic and turn off the sympathetic Oh no you're gonna pass out sympathetic Oh no you're gonna pass out sympathetic Oh no you're gonna pass out sympathetic's always operating and in sympathetic's always operating and in sympathetic's always operating and in fact it's operating a lot in the muscle fact it's operating a lot in the muscle fact it's operating a lot in the muscle tissue that's active during exercise
1:00tissue that's active during exercise tissue that's active during exercise so and we know that and we also know so and we know that and we also know so and we know that and we also know that the dilation that we see during that the dilation that we see during that the dilation that we see during exercise isn't neural it's due to some exercise isn't neural it's due to some exercise isn't neural it's due to some sympatholytic buffering system people sympatholytic buffering system people sympatholytic buffering system people say that it could be adenosine some say that it could be adenosine some say that it could be adenosine some people say it could be potassium but we people say it could be potassium but we people say it could be potassium but we don't we really don't know what that don't we really don't know what that don't we really don't know what that dilator is dilator is dilator is but there's no dilating signal that's but there's no dilating signal that's but there's no dilating signal that's coming from a nerve to muscle and they coming from a nerve to muscle and they coming from a nerve to muscle and they teach that in medicine teach that in medicine teach that in medicine do they really teach that yeah so I have do they really teach that yeah so I have do they really teach that yeah so I have to unteach interesting of course that I to unteach interesting of course that I to unteach interesting of course that I taught my course was it was a vanity taught my course was it was a vanity taught my course was it was a vanity course so it was like on what I do and course so it was like on what I do and course so it was like on what I do and unteaching the fact that humans dogs do unteaching the fact that humans dogs do unteaching the fact that humans dogs do but humans don't have vagal inputs to but humans don't have vagal inputs to but humans don't have vagal inputs to muscle that operate blood vessels was muscle that operate blood vessels was muscle that operate blood vessels was probably one of my main things I had to probably one of my main things I had to probably one of my main things I had to do I had to fight against that because do I had to fight against that because do I had to fight against that because it's easier to teach in medicine that it's easier to teach in medicine that it's easier to teach in medicine that there's a dilator nerve and a there's a dilator nerve and a there's a dilator nerve and a constrictor nerve yeah except for it constrictor nerve yeah except for it constrictor nerve yeah except for it doesn't make sense when you start doesn't make sense when you start doesn't make sense when you start actually thinking about it logically so actually thinking about it logically so actually thinking about it logically so yeah it's really neat the bi-directional yeah it's really neat the bi-directional yeah it's really neat the bi-directional miscommunication that can occur on both miscommunication that can occur on both miscommunication that can occur on both sides from the academics that say it's
1:01sides from the academics that say it's sides from the academics that say it's this is the gospel and then when you go this is the gospel and then when you go this is the gospel and then when you go in the real world which may not be quite in the real world which may not be quite in the real world which may not be quite the same people I try to use the word sympathetic people I try to use the word sympathetic and stress and explain to them that and stress and explain to them that and stress and explain to them that stress stressors are not a bad thing we stress stressors are not a bad thing we stress stressors are not a bad thing we chucked someone up into zero chucked someone up into zero chucked someone up into zero microgravity like they'll go to crap if microgravity like they'll go to crap if microgravity like they'll go to crap if they don't do any counter measures I they don't do any counter measures I they don't do any counter measures I think there's a story of trees without think there's a story of trees without think there's a story of trees without any wind at all don't even grow straight any wind at all don't even grow straight any wind at all don't even grow straight you need those stressors you need those you need those stressors you need those you need those stressors you need those Imports because it's like exercise right Imports because it's like exercise right Imports because it's like exercise right everybody knows if I want bigger biceps everybody knows if I want bigger biceps everybody knows if I want bigger biceps I'm going to do bicep curls I'm going to I'm going to do bicep curls I'm going to I'm going to do bicep curls I'm going to stress the muscle a little bit stress the muscle a little bit stress the muscle a little bit have it be a positive response but have it be a positive response but have it be a positive response but yeah it's a the other thing I used is if yeah it's a the other thing I used is if yeah it's a the other thing I used is if people have ever been on a beta blocker people have ever been on a beta blocker people have ever been on a beta blocker or if you've been parasympathetically or if you've been parasympathetically or if you've been parasympathetically overreached which is kind of a debatable overreached which is kind of a debatable overreached which is kind of a debatable term but if you get super high term but if you get super high term but if you get super high parasympathetic tone and you can't get parasympathetic tone and you can't get parasympathetic tone and you can't get your sympathetic system up you feel like your sympathetic system up you feel like your sympathetic system up you feel like utter dog [ __ ]
1:02utter dog [ __ ] utter dog [ __ ] their performance is not good their performance is not good their performance is not good absolutely it's the whole autonomic absolutely it's the whole autonomic absolutely it's the whole autonomic nervous system thing I think has been nervous system thing I think has been nervous system thing I think has been that's one of the ones that has been that's one of the ones that has been that's one of the ones that has been under undertaught so I'm glad you under undertaught so I'm glad you under undertaught so I'm glad you include that in your in your lectures include that in your in your lectures include that in your in your lectures and whatnot because it is it's such an and whatnot because it is it's such an and whatnot because it is it's such an important fact when we're talking about important fact when we're talking about important fact when we're talking about exercise because it is the thing like exercise because it is the thing like exercise because it is the thing like cardiovascular homeostasis cardiovascular homeostasis cardiovascular homeostasis is the essence of autonomic nervous is the essence of autonomic nervous is the essence of autonomic nervous system control during exercise that is system control during exercise that is system control during exercise that is the that's what it's all about and when the that's what it's all about and when the that's what it's all about and when we talk about good stress versus bad we talk about good stress versus bad we talk about good stress versus bad stress and these kind of things like stress and these kind of things like stress and these kind of things like what's you stress and what's distress it what's you stress and what's distress it what's you stress and what's distress it really is how long that sympathetic really is how long that sympathetic really is how long that sympathetic Drive prevails yep after you're done Drive prevails yep after you're done Drive prevails yep after you're done withdrawing the stress and so with withdrawing the stress and so with withdrawing the stress and so with exercise we know greatly right we exercise we know greatly right we exercise we know greatly right we exercise really hard and we feel great exercise really hard and we feel great exercise really hard and we feel great within an hour afterward my wife says within an hour afterward my wife says within an hour afterward my wife says I'm an [ __ ] actually we actually got I'm an [ __ ] actually we actually got I'm an [ __ ] actually we actually got into a little bit of argument after my into a little bit of argument after my into a little bit of argument after my workout yesterday I came in the house workout yesterday I came in the house workout yesterday I came in the house and I'm always like really charged after and I'm always like really charged after and I'm always like really charged after my workouts I I dig in myself into a my workouts I I dig in myself into a my workouts I I dig in myself into a dark hole and I really go for it so so dark hole and I really go for it so so dark hole and I really go for it so so she wanted to go for a walk and I came she wanted to go for a walk and I came she wanted to go for a walk and I came in yesterday you look like you're mad
1:03in yesterday you look like you're mad in yesterday you look like you're mad just finished my chest workout she said just finished my chest workout she said just finished my chest workout she said we're not going for a walk you look like we're not going for a walk you look like we're not going for a walk you look like you're really mad I'm like am I just do you're really mad I'm like am I just do you're really mad I'm like am I just do so much but within 30 minutes it goes back down but within 30 minutes it goes back down to Mellow Dwayne if there's such a thing to Mellow Dwayne if there's such a thing to Mellow Dwayne if there's such a thing and it's all good but yeah it's not and it's all good but yeah it's not and it's all good but yeah it's not prevailing that prevailing stress eh prevailing that prevailing stress eh prevailing that prevailing stress eh yeah last random question I'll let you yeah last random question I'll let you yeah last random question I'll let you talk about your shirts what you got talk about your shirts what you got talk about your shirts what you got going on going on going on do you think when you are do you think when you are do you think when you are exercising what do you think about in exercising what do you think about in exercising what do you think about in terms of terms of terms of emotion emotion emotion do you think it's better to have do you think it's better to have do you think it's better to have for lack of a better explanation some for lack of a better explanation some for lack of a better explanation some sort of anger or you're pissed off about sort of anger or you're pissed off about sort of anger or you're pissed off about something or to think that you're doing something or to think that you're doing something or to think that you're doing it for a higher power greater good love it for a higher power greater good love it for a higher power greater good love the other end of the spectrum I'm always the other end of the spectrum I'm always the other end of the spectrum I'm always curious about what people's perspective curious about what people's perspective curious about what people's perspective is on and I think it's gonna be like a is on and I think it's gonna be like a is on and I think it's gonna be like a whole podcast of philosophy too but yeah whole podcast of philosophy too but yeah whole podcast of philosophy too but yeah this is a neat one so I dig myself into this is a neat one so I dig myself into this is a neat one so I dig myself into a dark hole so my best workouts are when a dark hole so my best workouts are when a dark hole so my best workouts are when I'm the most pissed off and that comes
1:04I'm the most pissed off and that comes I'm the most pissed off and that comes from that was trained a long time ago in from that was trained a long time ago in from that was trained a long time ago in my probably my 20s my probably my 20s my probably my 20s and it's funny because I can't get same and it's funny because I can't get same and it's funny because I can't get same workouts now without throwing on death workouts now without throwing on death workouts now without throwing on death and actually feeling like a biker I and actually feeling like a biker I and actually feeling like a biker I don't know it's really strange it's don't know it's really strange it's don't know it's really strange it's something I've really tried to overcome something I've really tried to overcome something I've really tried to overcome but the problem is when I don't get but the problem is when I don't get but the problem is when I don't get myself in that mind State and train I myself in that mind State and train I myself in that mind State and train I don't see the benefits that I normally don't see the benefits that I normally don't see the benefits that I normally do as quickly and I also find that what do as quickly and I also find that what do as quickly and I also find that what I call and I've tried the love and I call and I've tried the love and I call and I've tried the love and happiness workouts too a lot and it's happiness workouts too a lot and it's happiness workouts too a lot and it's funny because funny because funny because you can even see it after I'm done I'm you can even see it after I'm done I'm you can even see it after I'm done I'm not as not as not as tapped I'm not even close to mentally tapped I'm not even close to mentally tapped I'm not even close to mentally tapped and when I look at the actual tapped and when I look at the actual tapped and when I look at the actual weights that I push during those times weights that I push during those times weights that I push during those times they're like 50 and I think I'm going to they're like 50 and I think I'm going to they're like 50 and I think I'm going to failure failure failure and so for me it's actually being mad and so for me it's actually being mad and so for me it's actually being mad and that's why I've never ever had and that's why I've never ever had and that's why I've never ever had training Partners unless it was someone training Partners unless it was someone training Partners unless it was someone that thought the same way but it all that thought the same way but it all that thought the same way but it all comes from 90s bodybuilding yeah that comes from 90s bodybuilding yeah that comes from 90s bodybuilding yeah that was like the way everybody trained back was like the way everybody trained back was like the way everybody trained back then as far as I can tell like a bench
1:05then as far as I can tell like a bench then as far as I can tell like a bench press for me was I don't think of it press for me was I don't think of it press for me was I don't think of it this Macabre anymore but I used to think this Macabre anymore but I used to think this Macabre anymore but I used to think okay I'm gonna take this bar and my okay I'm gonna take this bar and my okay I'm gonna take this bar and my biggest enemies on the ceiling and I'm biggest enemies on the ceiling and I'm biggest enemies on the ceiling and I'm going to throw this 405 bench press at going to throw this 405 bench press at going to throw this 405 bench press at this person and I want to go right this person and I want to go right this person and I want to go right through the roof and I get myself into through the roof and I get myself into through the roof and I get myself into that state turn on my music be that guy that state turn on my music be that guy that state turn on my music be that guy didn't have smelling salts but if I did didn't have smelling salts but if I did didn't have smelling salts but if I did not and push that weight and it's funny not and push that weight and it's funny not and push that weight and it's funny now because I still have to dig myself now because I still have to dig myself now because I still have to dig myself into a state like that in order to get into a state like that in order to get into a state like that in order to get to failure and I've only actually I had to failure and I've only actually I had to failure and I've only actually I had a kidney transplant two years ago and a kidney transplant two years ago and a kidney transplant two years ago and with the medications I'm on it's really with the medications I'm on it's really with the medications I'm on it's really hard to get yourself into that state I'm hard to get yourself into that state I'm hard to get yourself into that state I'm not on beta blockers or any blood not on beta blockers or any blood not on beta blockers or any blood pressure meds those were another story pressure meds those were another story pressure meds those were another story when I was on those when I was on those when I was on those because you can't get enough stage because you can't get enough stage because you can't get enough stage sympathetic all together so yeah so I sympathetic all together so yeah so I sympathetic all together so yeah so I have to be in a very highly sympathetic have to be in a very highly sympathetic have to be in a very highly sympathetic State I have to be like I said almost State I have to be like I said almost State I have to be like I said almost pissed off pissed off pissed off and but the problem with it it does and but the problem with it it does and but the problem with it it does prevail for about half an hour prevail for about half an hour prevail for about half an hour afterwards like where I'm not mad like afterwards like where I'm not mad like afterwards like where I'm not mad like I'm not mad at anybody yeah very intense I'm not mad at anybody yeah very intense I'm not mad at anybody yeah very intense that's my way that's why I called it that's my way that's why I called it that's my way that's why I called it very intense but I think I'm intense
1:06very intense but I think I'm intense very intense but I think I'm intense most of the time yeah no I was just most of the time yeah no I was just most of the time yeah no I was just wondering about it because I wondering about it because I wondering about it because I probably 10 years ago transitioned out probably 10 years ago transitioned out probably 10 years ago transitioned out of does like in college and working in of does like in college and working in of does like in college and working in the PHD blah blah everything the PHD blah blah everything the PHD blah blah everything my stress relief was to go exercise my stress relief was to go exercise my stress relief was to go exercise worked but then once I graduated I was worked but then once I graduated I was worked but then once I graduated I was like oh of course I still have stress like oh of course I still have stress like oh of course I still have stress but it's not decision to feel the same but it's not decision to feel the same but it's not decision to feel the same and then I started looking at the amount and then I started looking at the amount and then I started looking at the amount of injuries I had just luckily I didn't of injuries I had just luckily I didn't of injuries I had just luckily I didn't have too many in the gym but from doing have too many in the gym but from doing have too many in the gym but from doing other stupid stuff and I was like oh but other stupid stuff and I was like oh but other stupid stuff and I was like oh but it took me probably I'd say a couple it took me probably I'd say a couple it took me probably I'd say a couple years to sort of transition and my years to sort of transition and my years to sort of transition and my hypothesis again who knows is that hypothesis again who knows is that hypothesis again who knows is that there's less risk of injury and I can there's less risk of injury and I can there's less risk of injury and I can get to a similar level of performance get to a similar level of performance get to a similar level of performance now but it's just more of being now but it's just more of being now but it's just more of being focused without being angry or before focused without being angry or before focused without being angry or before the only way I could get focused was to the only way I could get focused was to the only way I could get focused was to get angry if that makes sense no it's it get angry if that makes sense no it's it get angry if that makes sense no it's it it's funny because I have a bunch of it's funny because I have a bunch of it's funny because I have a bunch of friends that have said the same thing friends that have said the same thing friends that have said the same thing and I still get the de-stress feeling
1:07and I still get the de-stress feeling and I still get the de-stress feeling from it but it takes like I said takes from it but it takes like I said takes from it but it takes like I said takes about half hour to an hour about half hour to an hour about half hour to an hour cardiovascular is where I actually do cardiovascular is where I actually do cardiovascular is where I actually do the hippie like the hippie like the hippie like smoke a doobie and go out for a nice big smoke a doobie and go out for a nice big smoke a doobie and go out for a nice big long three-hour hike and we can do a lot long three-hour hike and we can do a lot long three-hour hike and we can do a lot of that here there's a lot of doobie of that here there's a lot of doobie of that here there's a lot of doobie smoking and there's a lot smoking and there's a lot smoking and there's a lot they're in Canada a lot of mushrooms too they're in Canada a lot of mushrooms too they're in Canada a lot of mushrooms too around here but what's really cool around here but what's really cool around here but what's really cool what's really cool about that is I do what's really cool about that is I do what's really cool about that is I do buffer it with long hikes yeah that's buffer it with long hikes yeah that's buffer it with long hikes yeah that's something that I really am mindful of something that I really am mindful of something that I really am mindful of and like I said I really tried in my and like I said I really tried in my and like I said I really tried in my workouts to get to the state that you're workouts to get to the state that you're workouts to get to the state that you're at and it just I can't get there now the at and it just I can't get there now the at and it just I can't get there now the injuries injuries injuries great Point that's one thing I am very great Point that's one thing I am very great Point that's one thing I am very cognizant of now because yes the cognizant of now because yes the cognizant of now because yes the approach I take I can't take the same approach I take I can't take the same approach I take I can't take the same approach like I have to warm up I need approach like I have to warm up I need approach like I have to warm up I need to warm up like really good like 30 40 to warm up like really good like 30 40 to warm up like really good like 30 40 Reps for the first couple of sets before Reps for the first couple of sets before Reps for the first couple of sets before I actually get into it I actually get into it I actually get into it and so it's it has it is something I and so it's it has it is something I and so it's it has it is something I really want to transition to I would really want to transition to I would really want to transition to I would love my workouts to be peace love and love my workouts to be peace love and love my workouts to be peace love and happiness but my walks that I do every happiness but my walks that I do every happiness but my walks that I do every day are so I do get that really nice in day are so I do get that really nice in day are so I do get that really nice in touch with nature stop smell the roses
1:08touch with nature stop smell the roses touch with nature stop smell the roses and not something I really need to do and not something I really need to do and not something I really need to do because I'm a very charged guy and it's because I'm a very charged guy and it's because I'm a very charged guy and it's hard for me to relax my mind and that I hard for me to relax my mind and that I hard for me to relax my mind and that I do find relax in my mind nicely yeah do find relax in my mind nicely yeah do find relax in my mind nicely yeah people watching my workouts the blaring people watching my workouts the blaring people watching my workouts the blaring death metal they'd probably be like I death metal they'd probably be like I death metal they'd probably be like I don't know anything so stopped but it don't know anything so stopped but it don't know anything so stopped but it just seems weird but I always think of just seems weird but I always think of just seems weird but I always think of one of the guys I've moved you from then one of the guys I've moved you from then one of the guys I've moved you from then Five Finger Death Punch I was telling Five Finger Death Punch I was telling Five Finger Death Punch I was telling the story of the first time his young the story of the first time his young the story of the first time his young daughter ever saw him perform he says daughter ever saw him perform he says daughter ever saw him perform he says normally they would sometimes come on normally they would sometimes come on normally they would sometimes come on tour normally they'd be at home and so tour normally they'd be at home and so tour normally they'd be at home and so she got to the age where she's come to she got to the age where she's come to she got to the age where she's come to the show so she's off on the side and he the show so she's off on the side and he the show so she's off on the side and he comes off after the show and his comes off after the show and his comes off after the show and his daughter's just like crying and he's you daughter's just like crying and he's you daughter's just like crying and he's you know what's wrong she's what happened know what's wrong she's what happened know what's wrong she's what happened why are you so mad and then he realized why are you so mad and then he realized why are you so mad and then he realized oh my God like she's never seen me oh my God like she's never seen me oh my God like she's never seen me perform she's only seen like the perform she's only seen like the perform she's only seen like the complete utter opposite her entire life complete utter opposite her entire life complete utter opposite her entire life so to see that was very shocking because so to see that was very shocking because so to see that was very shocking because it was so different and then a lot of I it was so different and then a lot of I it was so different and then a lot of I used to do interviews with a I was in a used to do interviews with a I was in a used to do interviews with a I was in a radio station for a while a lot of Death
1:09radio station for a while a lot of Death radio station for a while a lot of Death Metal guys and Metal guys and Metal guys and ninety percent of them are just like ninety percent of them are just like ninety percent of them are just like probably the most relaxed she'll people probably the most relaxed she'll people probably the most relaxed she'll people like George Corps grinder Fisher from like George Corps grinder Fisher from like George Corps grinder Fisher from catalog one of the nicest dudes you'll catalog one of the nicest dudes you'll catalog one of the nicest dudes you'll ever meet if you see him perform you're ever meet if you see him perform you're ever meet if you see him perform you're just like oh my God I don't want to meet just like oh my God I don't want to meet just like oh my God I don't want to meet this guy in a back alley and he's asking this guy in a back alley and he's asking this guy in a back alley and he's asking me like why are you so chill all the me like why are you so chill all the me like why are you so chill all the time he's like oh I get to yell and time he's like oh I get to yell and time he's like oh I get to yell and scream bottles there's a crazy [ __ ] on scream bottles there's a crazy [ __ ] on scream bottles there's a crazy [ __ ] on stage for an hour of course I feel great stage for an hour of course I feel great stage for an hour of course I feel great after he gets it all out after he gets it all out after he gets it all out might be like that too you just get it might be like that too you just get it might be like that too you just get it out of your system cool after that and I out of your system cool after that and I out of your system cool after that and I honestly think that's a big part of it honestly think that's a big part of it honestly think that's a big part of it for me I've always been a very for me I've always been a very for me I've always been a very aggressive guy and and by aggressive I aggressive guy and and by aggressive I aggressive guy and and by aggressive I don't mean that going around and picking don't mean that going around and picking don't mean that going around and picking fights with them I clawed my way to the fights with them I clawed my way to the fights with them I clawed my way to the top of medicine and my wife always top of medicine and my wife always top of medicine and my wife always pointed this out to me right Motocross pointed this out to me right Motocross pointed this out to me right Motocross single sport no real rules when you're single sport no real rules when you're single sport no real rules when you're on the track but you can do whatever you on the track but you can do whatever you on the track but you can do whatever you want to people on your bike and throw want to people on your bike and throw want to people on your bike and throw these 250 pound machines at each other these 250 pound machines at each other these 250 pound machines at each other and so I did that for all my formative and so I did that for all my formative and so I did that for all my formative years while competing in bodybuilding years while competing in bodybuilding years while competing in bodybuilding you're like right so the program is
1:10you're like right so the program is you're like right so the program is pretty strong and it's really neat to pretty strong and it's really neat to pretty strong and it's really neat to actually the psychological stuff is what actually the psychological stuff is what actually the psychological stuff is what my this is my now that I'm 50. this is my this is my now that I'm 50. this is my this is my now that I'm 50. this is the this is the stuff I'm working on now the this is the stuff I'm working on now the this is the stuff I'm working on now is really being able to control my own is really being able to control my own is really being able to control my own mind because when I was younger and I mind because when I was younger and I mind because when I was younger and I was taking 75 milligrams of ephedrine was taking 75 milligrams of ephedrine was taking 75 milligrams of ephedrine before my workout 25 milligrams a tablet when it first 25 milligrams a tablet when it first came out five came out five came out five and so back when I was doing that there and so back when I was doing that there and so back when I was doing that there was no foot off the gas pedal like it was no foot off the gas pedal like it was no foot off the gas pedal like it was gas pedal down straight A's in was gas pedal down straight A's in was gas pedal down straight A's in School win bodybuilding shows win School win bodybuilding shows win School win bodybuilding shows win motocross races it was just all about motocross races it was just all about motocross races it was just all about just wind at all costs do this thing and just wind at all costs do this thing and just wind at all costs do this thing and that's why I have a kidney transplant that's why I have a kidney transplant that's why I have a kidney transplant you can only pedal to the metal it for you can only pedal to the metal it for you can only pedal to the metal it for so long that blood pressure and so long that blood pressure and so long that blood pressure and everything else that comes along with it everything else that comes along with it everything else that comes along with it is going to take something out so for me is going to take something out so for me is going to take something out so for me yeah this next phase of my life is yeah this next phase of my life is yeah this next phase of my life is really about that's why we moved out really about that's why we moved out really about that's why we moved out west and everything else is about being west and everything else is about being west and everything else is about being able to harness that inner hippie there able to harness that inner hippie there able to harness that inner hippie there is one in there I know it because I feel is one in there I know it because I feel is one in there I know it because I feel it every time I go for my walk yeah it's
1:11it every time I go for my walk yeah it's it every time I go for my walk yeah it's really neat you ask that question really neat you ask that question really neat you ask that question because it's something that actually because it's something that actually because it's something that actually like like yesterday we dealt with I like like yesterday we dealt with I like like yesterday we dealt with I literally walked to the house it was literally walked to the house it was literally walked to the house it was like whoa you look really mad and I'm like whoa you look really mad and I'm like whoa you look really mad and I'm like no I'm not I'm just really like no I'm not I'm just really like no I'm not I'm just really energized energized energized yeah cool tell people about your yeah cool tell people about your yeah cool tell people about your certification you've got a line of certification you've got a line of certification you've got a line of supplements you've got some mushroom supplements you've got some mushroom supplements you've got some mushroom products you got all sorts of stuff products you got all sorts of stuff products you got all sorts of stuff going on so tell us about it I've got going on so tell us about it I've got going on so tell us about it I've got all kinds of hands and things yeah so I all kinds of hands and things yeah so I all kinds of hands and things yeah so I run a course with pre-script so it's my run a course with pre-script so it's my run a course with pre-script so it's my own course I just do it under their own course I just do it under their own course I just do it under their hospice and it's a nutrition course on hospice and it's a nutrition course on hospice and it's a nutrition course on body composition really I just it's body composition really I just it's body composition really I just it's really just a kind of like what you said really just a kind of like what you said really just a kind of like what you said it's a 14-week course that would cover it's a 14-week course that would cover it's a 14-week course that would cover numerous different exercise physiology numerous different exercise physiology numerous different exercise physiology courses anything from the progressive courses anything from the progressive courses anything from the progressive overload to matching to matching overload to matching to matching overload to matching to matching whatever your research or sorry whatever whatever your research or sorry whatever whatever your research or sorry whatever your programs that you're programming your programs that you're programming your programs that you're programming are to the nutrition that you need to are to the nutrition that you need to are to the nutrition that you need to actually support that program because actually support that program because actually support that program because almost Nobody Does that yeah it's weird almost Nobody Does that yeah it's weird almost Nobody Does that yeah it's weird yeah so that's why it was actually funny yeah so that's why it was actually funny yeah so that's why it was actually funny in the course because I spent a lot of in the course because I spent a lot of in the course because I spent a lot of time doing things that I that aren't time doing things that I that aren't time doing things that I that aren't nutrition related nutrition related nutrition related directly and that's basically when
1:12directly and that's basically when directly and that's basically when you're designing I don't teach them how you're designing I don't teach them how you're designing I don't teach them how to design any exercise programs but I to design any exercise programs but I to design any exercise programs but I tell them if you're doing these types of tell them if you're doing these types of tell them if you're doing these types of things and I show them actually all the things and I show them actually all the things and I show them actually all the different metabolic pathways with different metabolic pathways with different metabolic pathways with overlapping aerobic and I show them how overlapping aerobic and I show them how overlapping aerobic and I show them how it all works and then I explain to them it all works and then I explain to them it all works and then I explain to them like here's the reason why you need to like here's the reason why you need to like here's the reason why you need to consider these nutritional aspects consider these nutritional aspects consider these nutritional aspects during these different phases of during these different phases of during these different phases of training and if you're not periodizing training and if you're not periodizing training and if you're not periodizing training then you need to start and if training then you need to start and if training then you need to start and if you're periodizing training you need to you're periodizing training you need to you're periodizing training you need to periodize nutrition so that's the front periodize nutrition so that's the front periodize nutrition so that's the front end there's a lot of at the very front end there's a lot of at the very front end there's a lot of at the very front end I talk about all the modalities to end I talk about all the modalities to end I talk about all the modalities to measure body composition really boring I measure body composition really boring I measure body composition really boring I hated it when I was an undergrad of that hated it when I was an undergrad of that hated it when I was an undergrad of that lab not yet it sucks but it's a body lab not yet it sucks but it's a body lab not yet it sucks but it's a body composition course so we got to talk composition course so we got to talk composition course so we got to talk about those modalities at the very front about those modalities at the very front about those modalities at the very front end yeah and then we just go through all end yeah and then we just go through all end yeah and then we just go through all the metabolism and digestion of the metabolism and digestion of the metabolism and digestion of carbohydrates fats and proteins talk carbohydrates fats and proteins talk carbohydrates fats and proteins talk about micro nutrition and the importance about micro nutrition and the importance about micro nutrition and the importance of that because that gets lost a lot in of that because that gets lost a lot in of that because that gets lost a lot in the whole macro thing and when you see the whole macro thing and when you see the whole macro thing and when you see other people's diets you're like oh yeah other people's diets you're like oh yeah other people's diets you're like oh yeah you've totally forgot yeah chicken and you've totally forgot yeah chicken and you've totally forgot yeah chicken and rice again okay and yeah and then we wrap it up with
1:13and yeah and then we wrap it up with some kind of for lack of a better term some kind of for lack of a better term some kind of for lack of a better term like hacks right so it's all just about like hacks right so it's all just about like hacks right so it's all just about sleep sleep sleep I'll call yous stress gut health and I I'll call yous stress gut health and I I'll call yous stress gut health and I basically wrap up all the stuff that basically wrap up all the stuff that basically wrap up all the stuff that I've experienced with my client base I've experienced with my client base I've experienced with my client base and give them pointers on how to and give them pointers on how to and give them pointers on how to maneuver through those things on a maneuver through those things on a maneuver through those things on a nutritional aspect so it's yeah it's a nutritional aspect so it's yeah it's a nutritional aspect so it's yeah it's a fun course it's like I said 14 weeks I'm fun course it's like I said 14 weeks I'm fun course it's like I said 14 weeks I'm just finishing up now I think I got two just finishing up now I think I got two just finishing up now I think I got two weeks left and then we'll run it again weeks left and then we'll run it again weeks left and then we'll run it again in the fall nice that's that stuff yeah in the fall nice that's that stuff yeah in the fall nice that's that stuff yeah and I've also got a gut health course and I've also got a gut health course and I've also got a gut health course that we I did for them pre-recorded so that we I did for them pre-recorded so that we I did for them pre-recorded so it's going to be so look on pre-script it's going to be so look on pre-script it's going to be so look on pre-script there'll be a gut health Evergreen there'll be a gut health Evergreen there'll be a gut health Evergreen course on there it's just not live I course on there it's just not live I course on there it's just not live I teach all the stuff live right now with teach all the stuff live right now with teach all the stuff live right now with this but they record it most of the this but they record it most of the this but they record it most of the people watch the recordings yeah it's a people watch the recordings yeah it's a people watch the recordings yeah it's a weekly live thing weekly live thing weekly live thing and yeah so I also formulate so I've and yeah so I also formulate so I've and yeah so I also formulate so I've formulated for decades for all a lot of formulated for decades for all a lot of formulated for decades for all a lot of big companies I'm currently with HD big companies I'm currently with HD big companies I'm currently with HD muscle chose to leave I was with ATP lab muscle chose to leave I was with ATP lab muscle chose to leave I was with ATP lab which is a pharmaceutical grade brand which is a pharmaceutical grade brand which is a pharmaceutical grade brand here in Canada and I decided to leave it here in Canada and I decided to leave it here in Canada and I decided to leave it because HD was that's shinier it was the because HD was that's shinier it was the because HD was that's shinier it was the ATP for four years and really didn't get
1:14ATP for four years and really didn't get ATP for four years and really didn't get much traction outside of working with much traction outside of working with much traction outside of working with Pharmacists and Physicians Pharmacists and Physicians Pharmacists and Physicians so I want to dump jump a little more so I want to dump jump a little more so I want to dump jump a little more into the bodybuilding realm in the into the bodybuilding realm in the into the bodybuilding realm in the fitness realm so I went with HD muscle fitness realm so I went with HD muscle fitness realm so I went with HD muscle it's like I said it's a shiny brand it's it's like I said it's a shiny brand it's it's like I said it's a shiny brand it's a young brand a very good brand though a young brand a very good brand though a young brand a very good brand though high quality formulations I do all the high quality formulations I do all the high quality formulations I do all the education formulating for them and I own education formulating for them and I own education formulating for them and I own a company called Vibe mushrooms I'm a a company called Vibe mushrooms I'm a a company called Vibe mushrooms I'm a co-founder with another friend and we've co-founder with another friend and we've co-founder with another friend and we've had that going since almost a year now had that going since almost a year now had that going since almost a year now and we do functional mushroom extracts and we do functional mushroom extracts and we do functional mushroom extracts under my strict guidance on how to under my strict guidance on how to under my strict guidance on how to produce them this is a problem in the produce them this is a problem in the produce them this is a problem in the mushroom industry right now oh yeah is mushroom industry right now oh yeah is mushroom industry right now oh yeah is that it's just it's just it's wild west that it's just it's just it's wild west that it's just it's just it's wild west and you can just grab dried mushrooms and you can just grab dried mushrooms and you can just grab dried mushrooms yeah there's mushroom dust in there yeah yeah there's mushroom dust in there yeah yeah there's mushroom dust in there yeah exactly and so it's 35 beta glucans and exactly and so it's 35 beta glucans and exactly and so it's 35 beta glucans and you're like okay so it's got the same you're like okay so it's got the same you're like okay so it's got the same polysaccharides at every [ __ ] polysaccharides at every [ __ ] polysaccharides at every [ __ ] mushroom hasn't made for crying out loud mushroom hasn't made for crying out loud mushroom hasn't made for crying out loud so what I did was I did a lot of so what I did was I did a lot of so what I did was I did a lot of research on the traditional Chinese research on the traditional Chinese research on the traditional Chinese medicine pharmacopoeia medicine pharmacopoeia medicine pharmacopoeia and I use their because it's medicine and I use their because it's medicine and I use their because it's medicine actually in China and Japan it's adjunct actually in China and Japan it's adjunct actually in China and Japan it's adjunct medicine for cancers and blood pressure
1:15medicine for cancers and blood pressure medicine for cancers and blood pressure and all kinds of stuff and all kinds of stuff and all kinds of stuff so I so I basically took we have we have so I so I basically took we have we have so I so I basically took we have we have four five offerings so we have lion's four five offerings so we have lion's four five offerings so we have lion's mane red reishi turkey tail and mane red reishi turkey tail and mane red reishi turkey tail and cordyceps and then we have one that's a cordyceps and then we have one that's a cordyceps and then we have one that's a blend of the four an equal blend of the blend of the four an equal blend of the blend of the four an equal blend of the four four four and what I did was for each unique and what I did was for each unique and what I did was for each unique extract I made sure that we followed the extract I made sure that we followed the extract I made sure that we followed the Chinese pharmacopia so it became like a Chinese pharmacopia so it became like a Chinese pharmacopia so it became like a medicine in China and by doing so I medicine in China and by doing so I medicine in China and by doing so I realized there's a lot of companies realized there's a lot of companies realized there's a lot of companies doing this because doing this because doing this because yes and very expensive for to get them yes and very expensive for to get them yes and very expensive for to get them to actually do these extractions like 15 to actually do these extractions like 15 to actually do these extractions like 15 to 1 extractions these kind of things to 1 extractions these kind of things to 1 extractions these kind of things nonetheless we have the top nonetheless we have the top nonetheless we have the top pharmaceutical grade product on the pharmaceutical grade product on the pharmaceutical grade product on the market right now excellent stuff we've market right now excellent stuff we've market right now excellent stuff we've just ordered our second big round of just ordered our second big round of just ordered our second big round of orders from our supplier and everything orders from our supplier and everything orders from our supplier and everything else so I'm pretty nice that yeah and else so I'm pretty nice that yeah and else so I'm pretty nice that yeah and it's been going well it's a work in it's been going well it's a work in it's been going well it's a work in progress because it's a startup but it's progress because it's a startup but it's progress because it's a startup but it's it's been going quite well so I've got it's been going quite well so I've got it's been going quite well so I've got those things going on and then I've got those things going on and then I've got those things going on and then I've got my my own stuff with my training and my my my own stuff with my training and my my my own stuff with my training and my teaching and stuff and my my training teaching and stuff and my my training teaching and stuff and my my training stuff I mainly work with I work with a
1:16stuff I mainly work with I work with a stuff I mainly work with I work with a lot of really ridiculously special cases lot of really ridiculously special cases lot of really ridiculously special cases by special cases I'll say that they by special cases I'll say that they by special cases I'll say that they range from 800 pound people losing range from 800 pound people losing range from 800 pound people losing weight weight weight through to transplant recipients so I've through to transplant recipients so I've through to transplant recipients so I've got seven or eight transplant recipients got seven or eight transplant recipients got seven or eight transplant recipients of all different kinds on my roster of all different kinds on my roster of all different kinds on my roster right through to and this is a real right through to and this is a real right through to and this is a real special case but celebrities special case but celebrities special case but celebrities and the reason why I say they're special and the reason why I say they're special and the reason why I say they're special cases is because it's a completely cases is because it's a completely cases is because it's a completely different world to work with these guys different world to work with these guys different world to work with these guys these are celebrities because their work these are celebrities because their work these are celebrities because their work it just sucks their work environment it just sucks their work environment it just sucks their work environment really sucks but all will work like you really sucks but all will work like you really sucks but all will work like you wouldn't believe right yeah so there's a wouldn't believe right yeah so there's a wouldn't believe right yeah so there's a lot of movie actors that stuff it's just lot of movie actors that stuff it's just lot of movie actors that stuff it's just yeah it's a weird Zone world it's crazy yeah it's a weird Zone world it's crazy yeah it's a weird Zone world it's crazy yeah so I've got some pretty pretty high yeah so I've got some pretty pretty high yeah so I've got some pretty pretty high level guys in that end so it's the level guys in that end so it's the level guys in that end so it's the training stuff's been really fun for me training stuff's been really fun for me training stuff's been really fun for me because generally people send me people because generally people send me people because generally people send me people that they can't get their goals with that they can't get their goals with that they can't get their goals with and so I like that because it allows me and so I like that because it allows me and so I like that because it allows me to use my inner scientist and that kind to use my inner scientist and that kind to use my inner scientist and that kind of gives me that feeling that you get of gives me that feeling that you get of gives me that feeling that you get when you have to dig into the literature when you have to dig into the literature when you have to dig into the literature and really try to find a way to get
1:17and really try to find a way to get and really try to find a way to get around things I love it that's about it around things I love it that's about it around things I love it that's about it for me for me for me oh awesome thank you so much for all oh awesome thank you so much for all oh awesome thank you so much for all your time and sharing all your expertise your time and sharing all your expertise your time and sharing all your expertise I'd highly recommend people check out I'd highly recommend people check out I'd highly recommend people check out all the stuff we've got going on there all the stuff we've got going on there all the stuff we've got going on there and yeah always wonderful to chat with and yeah always wonderful to chat with and yeah always wonderful to chat with you again really appreciate it likewise you again really appreciate it likewise you again really appreciate it likewise doc thanks so much for having me on I doc thanks so much for having me on I doc thanks so much for having me on I really appreciate your time too really appreciate your time too really appreciate your time too oh thank you and we'll talk to you very oh thank you and we'll talk to you very oh thank you and we'll talk to you very soon talk soon brother have a good one soon talk soon brother have a good one soon talk soon brother have a good one thank you so much for listening to the thank you so much for listening to the thank you so much for listening to the podcast today I really appreciate it a podcast today I really appreciate it a podcast today I really appreciate it a huge thanks to Dr Jackson for coming on huge thanks to Dr Jackson for coming on huge thanks to Dr Jackson for coming on here I know he's a super busy man he's here I know he's a super busy man he's here I know he's a super busy man he's running multiple different things so running multiple different things so running multiple different things so make sure to check out all of his links make sure to check out all of his links make sure to check out all of his links below from the mushroom company to his below from the mushroom company to his below from the mushroom company to his supplement line to his course that he supplement line to his course that he supplement line to his course that he has with free script all on nutrition has with free script all on nutrition has with free script all on nutrition and digestion and digestion and digestion I haven't gone through his course yet I haven't gone through his course yet I haven't gone through his course yet but just having talked to him for a but just having talked to him for a but just having talked to him for a while I'm sure it is epic and this while I'm sure it is epic and this while I'm sure it is epic and this podcast is brought to you by the flex podcast is brought to you by the flex podcast is brought to you by the flex diet certification diet certification diet certification it will open again June 5th 2023 go to
1:18it will open again June 5th 2023 go to it will open again June 5th 2023 go to flexdiet.com for all of the information flexdiet.com for all of the information flexdiet.com for all of the information if you're looking for a complete system if you're looking for a complete system if you're looking for a complete system to maximize primarily nutrition and to maximize primarily nutrition and to maximize primarily nutrition and Recovery Recovery Recovery for both yourself or if you're a coach for both yourself or if you're a coach for both yourself or if you're a coach or a client go to flexdiet.com and or a client go to flexdiet.com and or a client go to flexdiet.com and that's exactly what we cover I go over that's exactly what we cover I go over that's exactly what we cover I go over the big picture using the concepts of the big picture using the concepts of the big picture using the concepts of flexible dieting and metabolic flexible dieting and metabolic flexible dieting and metabolic flexibility flexibility flexibility we've got an in-depth lecture that's we've got an in-depth lecture that's we've got an in-depth lecture that's limited as I mentioned here in the limited as I mentioned here in the limited as I mentioned here in the podcast to about only one hour yes the podcast to about only one hour yes the podcast to about only one hour yes the carbohydrate one did run over a little carbohydrate one did run over a little carbohydrate one did run over a little bit but this is useful because you can bit but this is useful because you can bit but this is useful because you can learn all the technical aspects learn all the technical aspects learn all the technical aspects of each of the interventions from of each of the interventions from of each of the interventions from protein to micronutrition to sleep to protein to micronutrition to sleep to protein to micronutrition to sleep to much more much more much more only within about an hour's worth of only within about an hour's worth of only within about an hour's worth of time and then part three for each one is time and then part three for each one is time and then part three for each one is five specific action items so you'll five specific action items so you'll five specific action items so you'll always know exactly what do you need to always know exactly what do you need to always know exactly what do you need to do in order to put this into practice do in order to put this into practice do in order to put this into practice because it's not just the acquisition of because it's not just the acquisition of because it's not just the acquisition of knowledge that is the best it is applied
1:19knowledge that is the best it is applied knowledge that is the best it is applied knowledge so I wanted to set up a system knowledge so I wanted to set up a system knowledge so I wanted to set up a system that had the big picture so you that had the big picture so you that had the big picture so you understand context you understand the understand context you understand the understand context you understand the details from a little bit more of the details from a little bit more of the details from a little bit more of the research side and we go through and research side and we go through and research side and we go through and explain all the geeky terms so you don't explain all the geeky terms so you don't explain all the geeky terms so you don't need to look all of them up or anything need to look all of them up or anything need to look all of them up or anything like that like that like that and we have the application so that you and we have the application so that you and we have the application so that you know exactly what you would need to do know exactly what you would need to do know exactly what you would need to do in each individual case so go to in each individual case so go to in each individual case so go to flexdiet.com for all the information flexdiet.com for all the information flexdiet.com for all the information there you can hop on the wait list it'll there you can hop on the wait list it'll there you can hop on the wait list it'll be open for one week starting the June be open for one week starting the June be open for one week starting the June 5th 5th 5th 2023. thanks again to Dr Jackson for all 2023. thanks again to Dr Jackson for all 2023. thanks again to Dr Jackson for all of his information make sure to check of his information make sure to check of his information make sure to check out all his info there and his great out all his info there and his great out all his info there and his great stuff he has on Instagram thank you very stuff he has on Instagram thank you very stuff he has on Instagram thank you very much for listening to the podcast as much for listening to the podcast as much for listening to the podcast as always really appreciate it if you have always really appreciate it if you have always really appreciate it if you have just a couple seconds please leave us a just a couple seconds please leave us a just a couple seconds please leave us a review for whatever Stars you feel are review for whatever Stars you feel are review for whatever Stars you feel are appropriate and if you can take the time appropriate and if you can take the time appropriate and if you can take the time to write out a few sentences that goes a to write out a few sentences that goes a to write out a few sentences that goes a long way to help us with the little long way to help us with the little long way to help us with the little algorithms to move the show up thank you
1:20algorithms to move the show up thank you algorithms to move the show up thank you so much for listening really appreciate so much for listening really appreciate so much for listening really appreciate it talk to you all next week the first place