Andrew Huberman Susanna S berg The Science of Cold Heat Exposure Explained
00:00okay okay if anyone's just joining uh sorry to log if anyone's just joining uh sorry to log if anyone's just joining uh sorry to log on a couple minutes late on a couple minutes late on a couple minutes late um um um we'll just take a few moments here and we'll just take a few moments here and we'll just take a few moments here and let people join in let people join in let people join in um I see that Susana has joined the live um I see that Susana has joined the live um I see that Susana has joined the live so Susanna there should be um I hope I'm so Susanna there should be um I hope I'm so Susanna there should be um I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly there pronouncing your name correctly there pronouncing your name correctly there should be an opportunity should be an opportunity should be an opportunity um to just uh request to join um to just uh request to join um to just uh request to join um Susanna that would be wonderful and um Susanna that would be wonderful and um Susanna that would be wonderful and then we can have you pipe in and then we can have you pipe in and then we can have you pipe in and um let's see uh let's see what this um let's see uh let's see what this um let's see uh let's see what this request is there you are and request is there you are and request is there you are and hopefully there you are should just be a hopefully there you are should just be a hopefully there you are should just be a quick moment sorry folks we're just uh waiting for sorry folks we're just uh waiting for Suzanne to join and there you are hi hi Suzanne to join and there you are hi hi Suzanne to join and there you are hi hi Could you um Dr Susanna soberg is that Could you um Dr Susanna soberg is that Could you um Dr Susanna soberg is that correct hi Andrew thank you for inviting correct hi Andrew thank you for inviting correct hi Andrew thank you for inviting me me me oh well thank you so much for joining us oh well thank you so much for joining us oh well thank you so much for joining us um we'll take a couple minutes here and um we'll take a couple minutes here and um we'll take a couple minutes here and just get acquainted uh while people log
01:00just get acquainted uh while people log just get acquainted uh while people log on on on um I have the hour and um I know people um I have the hour and um I know people um I have the hour and um I know people are really looking forward to uh are really looking forward to uh are really looking forward to uh learning from you as just a few uh learning from you as just a few uh learning from you as just a few uh things for people logging on things for people logging on things for people logging on um as the questions stream by if you um as the questions stream by if you um as the questions stream by if you have questions for us please put them in have questions for us please put them in have questions for us please put them in the questions bin that's a little bit the questions bin that's a little bit the questions bin that's a little bit more useful more useful more useful um than putting them in the comments um than putting them in the comments um than putting them in the comments because the comments string by and we because the comments string by and we because the comments string by and we might miss them but might miss them but might miss them but um um uh nonetheless it's uh we're delighted uh nonetheless it's uh we're delighted uh nonetheless it's uh we're delighted oh Eric Eric Weinstein oh Eric Eric Weinstein oh Eric Eric Weinstein um good to see you we've got um some um good to see you we've got um some um good to see you we've got um some luminaries in the room luminaries in the room luminaries in the room um wonderful and I know people are um wonderful and I know people are um wonderful and I know people are really excited to learn from you so really excited to learn from you so really excited to learn from you so um first of all um first of all um first of all um tell us a little bit about yourself I um tell us a little bit about yourself I um tell us a little bit about yourself I I've I've talked a lot about your paper I've I've talked a lot about your paper I've I've talked a lot about your paper in recent weeks online but maybe just in recent weeks online but maybe just in recent weeks online but maybe just give us a little bit of background give us a little bit of background give us a little bit of background um uh your so what where you did your uh um uh your so what where you did your uh um uh your so what where you did your uh training and um where the work was done training and um where the work was done training and um where the work was done and what you're up to now in the and what you're up to now in the and what you're up to now in the scientific sense scientific sense scientific sense yes thank you good questions
02:00yes thank you good questions yes thank you good questions um so I originally started my research um so I originally started my research um so I originally started my research in another topic actually and by in another topic actually and by in another topic actually and by coincidence I met this professor and she coincidence I met this professor and she coincidence I met this professor and she um um she was studying ground fed and she had she was studying ground fed and she had she was studying ground fed and she had done some my studies and she had looked done some my studies and she had looked done some my studies and she had looked into self study and then she knew that I into self study and then she knew that I into self study and then she knew that I could do this at human studies and she could do this at human studies and she could do this at human studies and she asked me well do you think that you can asked me well do you think that you can asked me well do you think that you can study uh the human Brown fat in the in study uh the human Brown fat in the in study uh the human Brown fat in the in humans because it's it's not really a humans because it's it's not really a humans because it's it's not really a been explored that much and especially been explored that much and especially been explored that much and especially not in the in healthy heirloom subjects not in the in healthy heirloom subjects not in the in healthy heirloom subjects so we quite didn't know at that time how so we quite didn't know at that time how so we quite didn't know at that time how much Brown fat they do subjects have or much Brown fat they do subjects have or much Brown fat they do subjects have or people have people have people have um and a lot of the protocols for um and a lot of the protocols for um and a lot of the protocols for activating the healthy Brown fat was was activating the healthy Brown fat was was activating the healthy Brown fat was was still sketchy was it not sufficient still sketchy was it not sufficient still sketchy was it not sufficient enough and stuff like that so she asked enough and stuff like that so she asked enough and stuff like that so she asked me could you do a study in Brownfield so me could you do a study in Brownfield so me could you do a study in Brownfield so and some people might not know what
03:00and some people might not know what and some people might not know what brown fat is so I'm just gonna do a brown fat is so I'm just gonna do a brown fat is so I'm just gonna do a little quick uh recap on that so the little quick uh recap on that so the little quick uh recap on that so the brown fat is our healthy fat so it's brown fat is our healthy fat so it's brown fat is our healthy fat so it's located under our super clerical rooms located under our super clerical rooms located under our super clerical rooms and also down the spine a little bit and also down the spine a little bit and also down the spine a little bit around the heart and also around the around the heart and also around the around the heart and also around the kidneys and our largest Depot is kidneys and our largest Depot is kidneys and our largest Depot is actually under our superclavicular bones actually under our superclavicular bones actually under our superclavicular bones so in in my story you can actually see I so in in my story you can actually see I so in in my story you can actually see I have put up a a little video of the have put up a a little video of the have put up a a little video of the brown fat so you can see a turning torso brown fat so you can see a turning torso brown fat so you can see a turning torso it's a it's a it's a pacity scanning of it's a it's a it's a pacity scanning of it's a it's a it's a pacity scanning of a winter swimmer actually where you can a winter swimmer actually where you can a winter swimmer actually where you can see the brown fat is is activated in in see the brown fat is is activated in in see the brown fat is is activated in in one of the pictures and not in in the one of the pictures and not in in the one of the pictures and not in in the other one so during cold it's activated other one so during cold it's activated other one so during cold it's activated and during a warm temperature it's not and during a warm temperature it's not and during a warm temperature it's not so she asked me if I could to join her so she asked me if I could to join her so she asked me if I could to join her group and that was at the resourceful group and that was at the resourceful group and that was at the resourceful channel in the Copenhagen and at the channel in the Copenhagen and at the channel in the Copenhagen and at the sense of a physical activity research so sense of a physical activity research so sense of a physical activity research so also under Professor Bender club
04:00also under Professor Bender club also under Professor Bender club and that was really and that was really and that was really a very New Field to study so I was quite a very New Field to study so I was quite a very New Field to study so I was quite excited to do that so I just needed to excited to do that so I just needed to excited to do that so I just needed to figure out how to study this and they figure out how to study this and they figure out how to study this and they said find something with code do said find something with code do said find something with code do something activated with code in some something activated with code in some something activated with code in some way and then we figured maybe I should way and then we figured maybe I should way and then we figured maybe I should study people Greenland because they it's study people Greenland because they it's study people Greenland because they it's very cold there but I didn't want to go very cold there but I didn't want to go very cold there but I didn't want to go to Greenland so we kind of joked around to Greenland so we kind of joked around to Greenland so we kind of joked around with that for a while and then I said with that for a while and then I said with that for a while and then I said what about winter swimmers they activate what about winter swimmers they activate what about winter swimmers they activate their Brown feather all the time I guess their Brown feather all the time I guess their Brown feather all the time I guess if they they jump in the cold water so if they they jump in the cold water so if they they jump in the cold water so um so we kind of so maybe we should look um so we kind of so maybe we should look um so we kind of so maybe we should look into that and I researched a lot in the into that and I researched a lot in the into that and I researched a lot in the in the literature just to see have in the literature just to see have in the literature just to see have anybody done anything like this before anybody done anything like this before anybody done anything like this before and there was nothing so yeah that was and there was nothing so yeah that was and there was nothing so yeah that was kind of the the first thing kind of the the first thing kind of the the first thing that if you activate the brown fat with
05:00that if you activate the brown fat with that if you activate the brown fat with cold then you will probably get more of cold then you will probably get more of cold then you will probably get more of brown fat or maybe another activation brown fat or maybe another activation brown fat or maybe another activation grade of the brown pad and we we kind of grade of the brown pad and we we kind of grade of the brown pad and we we kind of started out with that so started out with that so started out with that so um studying the literature and also I um studying the literature and also I um studying the literature and also I went out to watch the winter swimmers in went out to watch the winter swimmers in went out to watch the winter swimmers in Denmark because I was not a windsor Denmark because I was not a windsor Denmark because I was not a windsor swimmer myself so it was a kind of a swimmer myself so it was a kind of a swimmer myself so it was a kind of a field study at the beginning I had to field study at the beginning I had to field study at the beginning I had to see they went to swim see they went to swim see they went to swim so that's a so that's a good so that's a so that's a good so that's a so that's a good introduction so for those of you and introduction so for those of you and introduction so for those of you and sorry for the background noise you got sorry for the background noise you got sorry for the background noise you got um kids playing around outside and I'm um kids playing around outside and I'm um kids playing around outside and I'm knocking on the door knocking on the door knocking on the door um so here's um so um so here's um so um so here's um so we're gonna hear some Chums from next we're gonna hear some Chums from next we're gonna hear some Chums from next door door door um in in any event um in in any event um in in any event um joyful noises so it the so just for um joyful noises so it the so just for um joyful noises so it the so just for people are coming to this conversation people are coming to this conversation people are coming to this conversation with a huge range of background with a huge range of background with a huge range of background um and so I want to make sure so thank um and so I want to make sure so thank um and so I want to make sure so thank you for uh giving us the the background you for uh giving us the the background you for uh giving us the the background of the story
06:00of the story of the story um so my understanding is that brown fat um so my understanding is that brown fat um so my understanding is that brown fat are healthy stores of fat that can help are healthy stores of fat that can help are healthy stores of fat that can help increase our Core Body metabolism that increase our Core Body metabolism that increase our Core Body metabolism that brown fat is also it sort of acts as a brown fat is also it sort of acts as a brown fat is also it sort of acts as a furnace for determining our level of furnace for determining our level of furnace for determining our level of comfort in uh given environment right comfort in uh given environment right comfort in uh given environment right that um that we might feel that um that we might feel that um that we might feel um some people are always chilly in cold um some people are always chilly in cold um some people are always chilly in cold environments they're always chilled environments they're always chilled environments they're always chilled other people feel very warm other people feel very warm other people feel very warm when we get when we get angry or we get when we get when we get angry or we get when we get when we get angry or we get excited we often heat up our body heats excited we often heat up our body heats excited we often heat up our body heats up up up um and there are a number of of reasons um and there are a number of of reasons um and there are a number of of reasons for that but that we have this for that but that we have this for that but that we have this metabolism that involves things like metabolism that involves things like metabolism that involves things like adrenaline but that also involves this adrenaline but that also involves this adrenaline but that also involves this brown fat which the way I think about brown fat which the way I think about brown fat which the way I think about Brown fat tell me if this is correct or Brown fat tell me if this is correct or Brown fat tell me if this is correct or not is not is not is um that the brown fat is sort of like um that the brown fat is sort of like um that the brown fat is sort of like oil in a candle it determines how how oil in a candle it determines how how oil in a candle it determines how how hot depending on the constituents of hot depending on the constituents of hot depending on the constituents of that oil it determines how hot that that oil it determines how hot that that oil it determines how hot that candle can burn or that flame can burn candle can burn or that flame can burn candle can burn or that flame can burn um so I know a lot of people use cold um so I know a lot of people use cold
07:00um so I know a lot of people use cold exposure and I think most people are exposure and I think most people are exposure and I think most people are here for this conversation to try and here for this conversation to try and here for this conversation to try and get get get um information about what to use cold um information about what to use cold um information about what to use cold for so um here is my current for so um here is my current for so um here is my current understanding and I encourage you as a understanding and I encourage you as a understanding and I encourage you as a also as an academic to correct me where also as an academic to correct me where also as an academic to correct me where my thinking is flawed because almost my thinking is flawed because almost my thinking is flawed because almost certainly it's flawed in in certain ways certainly it's flawed in in certain ways certainly it's flawed in in certain ways so oh so oh so oh um yeah well yeah and that's what we do um yeah well yeah and that's what we do um yeah well yeah and that's what we do as scientists right so as scientists right so as scientists right so um so first of all um so first of all um so first of all um I'm familiar with getting into cold um I'm familiar with getting into cold um I'm familiar with getting into cold um that in a variety ways so let's first um that in a variety ways so let's first um that in a variety ways so let's first talk about not your study in particular talk about not your study in particular talk about not your study in particular but what is the evidence that but what is the evidence that but what is the evidence that comparing for instance a cold shower to comparing for instance a cold shower to comparing for instance a cold shower to cold immersion in Still Water like an cold immersion in Still Water like an cold immersion in Still Water like an ocean or a lake or a cold water plunge ocean or a lake or a cold water plunge ocean or a lake or a cold water plunge right and so this is right and so this is right and so this is um a lot of people don't have access to um a lot of people don't have access to um a lot of people don't have access to a cold plunge or to an ocean or a lake a cold plunge or to an ocean or a lake a cold plunge or to an ocean or a lake so they ask me are cold showers as good
08:00so they ask me are cold showers as good so they ask me are cold showers as good and my response has always been and my response has always been and my response has always been it's better than nothing but most of the it's better than nothing but most of the it's better than nothing but most of the studies have been done with submersion studies have been done with submersion studies have been done with submersion because you could imagine that studying because you could imagine that studying because you could imagine that studying cold showers in humans is tough because cold showers in humans is tough because cold showers in humans is tough because you would have to measure how much they you would have to measure how much they you would have to measure how much they are under the water some people are are under the water some people are are under the water some people are going to put it on their head some going to put it on their head some going to put it on their head some people are gonna you know put on the people are gonna you know put on the people are gonna you know put on the neck some people are gonna are going to neck some people are gonna are going to neck some people are gonna are going to attempts up so they're so just to be attempts up so they're so just to be attempts up so they're so just to be clear to people there there aren't a lot clear to people there there aren't a lot clear to people there there aren't a lot of studies on cold showers there there of studies on cold showers there there of studies on cold showers there there are a lot of good or decent studies on are a lot of good or decent studies on are a lot of good or decent studies on cold immersion and so cold immersion and so cold immersion and so um people keep asking me uh maybe the um people keep asking me uh maybe the um people keep asking me uh maybe the connection so the question therefore is connection so the question therefore is connection so the question therefore is what is what is what is um you know um you know um you know are there any data on cold showers and are there any data on cold showers and are there any data on cold showers and if not can we translate what we know if not can we translate what we know if not can we translate what we know from cold immersion to from cold immersion to from cold immersion to um cold shower um cold shower um cold shower so no I don't know that many studies so no I don't know that many studies so no I don't know that many studies about the cold shower and how that
09:00about the cold shower and how that about the cold shower and how that actually affects our metabolism our actually affects our metabolism our actually affects our metabolism our physiology but there is a few uh showing physiology but there is a few uh showing physiology but there is a few uh showing that that you will get less that that you will get less that that you will get less sick if you take cold showers some so in sick if you take cold showers some so in sick if you take cold showers some so in some way if it's if it's cold enough and some way if it's if it's cold enough and some way if it's if it's cold enough and you can you can you can acclimate in the you can you can you can acclimate in the you can you can you can acclimate in the shower I think so you can definitely use shower I think so you can definitely use shower I think so you can definitely use showers to get your code shop response showers to get your code shop response showers to get your code shop response going so you would have that kind of a going so you would have that kind of a going so you would have that kind of a similar same effect so definitely similar same effect so definitely similar same effect so definitely activating it and definitely activating activating it and definitely activating activating it and definitely activating your brown fat you could definitely do your brown fat you could definitely do your brown fat you could definitely do that but it's definitely also not the that but it's definitely also not the that but it's definitely also not the same as immersing yourself into cold same as immersing yourself into cold same as immersing yourself into cold water up to maybe the chin so so because water up to maybe the chin so so because water up to maybe the chin so so because when you emote yourself you will have when you emote yourself you will have when you emote yourself you will have the full excavation of all your the full excavation of all your the full excavation of all your co-receptors in the skin and that will co-receptors in the skin and that will co-receptors in the skin and that will fire up immediately and also activate fire up immediately and also activate fire up immediately and also activate the the brown fat which will burn the the brown fat which will burn the the brown fat which will burn calories and sugar in your body and with calories and sugar in your body and with calories and sugar in your body and with the kosher shower it will heat up as the the kosher shower it will heat up as the the kosher shower it will heat up as the water runs down your body of course and
10:00water runs down your body of course and water runs down your body of course and it will baby be on your chest and will it will baby be on your chest and will it will baby be on your chest and will be on your back and it will not be quite be on your back and it will not be quite be on your back and it will not be quite the same but you could definitely use the same but you could definitely use the same but you could definitely use cold showers as a way of of doing cold cold showers as a way of of doing cold cold showers as a way of of doing cold exposure so I mean it's it's just exposure so I mean it's it's just exposure so I mean it's it's just temperature so if you can lower your temperature so if you can lower your temperature so if you can lower your temperature by showers or dipping in a temperature by showers or dipping in a temperature by showers or dipping in a in a barrel is it called a barrel you in a barrel is it called a barrel you in a barrel is it called a barrel you can put one in your in your garden and can put one in your in your garden and can put one in your in your garden and fill it up with cold water I mean it fill it up with cold water I mean it fill it up with cold water I mean it doesn't have to be ice ice cold it doesn't have to be ice ice cold it doesn't have to be ice ice cold it doesn't have to be zero degrees as long doesn't have to be zero degrees as long doesn't have to be zero degrees as long as the water is just 15 degrees and as the water is just 15 degrees and as the water is just 15 degrees and Below Celsius then it's actually cold Below Celsius then it's actually cold Below Celsius then it's actually cold enough to to activate your brown fat so enough to to activate your brown fat so enough to to activate your brown fat so the protocol that I use for my studies the protocol that I use for my studies the protocol that I use for my studies were to see how cold do I need to get my were to see how cold do I need to get my were to see how cold do I need to get my story how how with how little can I story how how with how little can I story how how with how little can I actually go so to to to be a little bit actually go so to to to be a little bit actually go so to to to be a little bit lazy about that so it actually shows lazy about that so it actually shows lazy about that so it actually shows that you don't have to beat that code 18 that you don't have to beat that code 18 that you don't have to beat that code 18 16 15 degrees Celsius of water would be
11:0016 15 degrees Celsius of water would be 16 15 degrees Celsius of water would be actually enough to activate your actually enough to activate your actually enough to activate your metabolism metabolism metabolism I'm just going to interrupt uh forgive I'm just going to interrupt uh forgive I'm just going to interrupt uh forgive me to ask a question so a lot of people me to ask a question so a lot of people me to ask a question so a lot of people ask how cold and so you said 15 degrees ask how cold and so you said 15 degrees ask how cold and so you said 15 degrees Celsius which I don't have the Celsius which I don't have the Celsius which I don't have the conversion in my head to Fahrenheit conversion in my head to Fahrenheit conversion in my head to Fahrenheit maybe if um someone will just do the maybe if um someone will just do the maybe if um someone will just do the conversion for us I used to be able to conversion for us I used to be able to conversion for us I used to be able to do Celsius to Fahrenheit and Kelvin when do Celsius to Fahrenheit and Kelvin when do Celsius to Fahrenheit and Kelvin when I was in college but in my head but I I was in college but in my head but I I was in college but in my head but I can't do it anymore can't do it anymore can't do it anymore um maybe someone could look up 15 um maybe someone could look up 15 um maybe someone could look up 15 degrees degrees degrees um celsius in fahrenheit on the internet um celsius in fahrenheit on the internet um celsius in fahrenheit on the internet and put in the comments section and then and put in the comments section and then and put in the comments section and then we'll put that out there we'll put that out there we'll put that out there um so now the interesting thing I um um so now the interesting thing I um um so now the interesting thing I um 15 59 degrees Fahrenheit which is thank 15 59 degrees Fahrenheit which is thank 15 59 degrees Fahrenheit which is thank you very much um 32j23 whoever you are you very much um 32j23 whoever you are you very much um 32j23 whoever you are thank you very much so so this is thank you very much so so this is thank you very much so so this is interesting so this is just below 60 interesting so this is just below 60 interesting so this is just below 60 degrees Fahrenheit which is not super degrees Fahrenheit which is not super degrees Fahrenheit which is not super cold thank you Kristin Holmes great to cold thank you Kristin Holmes great to cold thank you Kristin Holmes great to see you see you see you um this is not super cold and I should um this is not super cold and I should um this is not super cold and I should mention that there's a study that was mention that there's a study that was mention that there's a study that was published in the European Journal of published in the European Journal of published in the European Journal of physiology a few years ago showing that
12:00physiology a few years ago showing that physiology a few years ago showing that um when people went this was by um when people went this was by um when people went this was by submersion submersion submersion um up to the neck they were in the cold um up to the neck they were in the cold um up to the neck they were in the cold water for about I think it was 45 water for about I think it was 45 water for about I think it was 45 minutes or so and there was a or maybe minutes or so and there was a or maybe minutes or so and there was a or maybe it was slightly longer it wasn't that it was slightly longer it wasn't that it was slightly longer it wasn't that cold it was about 60 degrees and they cold it was about 60 degrees and they cold it was about 60 degrees and they had a 2.5 x double a 2.5 X increase had a 2.5 x double a 2.5 X increase had a 2.5 x double a 2.5 X increase excuse me in dopa in dopamine levels a excuse me in dopa in dopamine levels a excuse me in dopa in dopamine levels a transient increase in epinephrine so transient increase in epinephrine so transient increase in epinephrine so that's not even that cold you don't even that's not even that cold you don't even that's not even that cold you don't even really need to get that cold now the really need to get that cold now the really need to get that cold now the question get extreme or anything it's question get extreme or anything it's question get extreme or anything it's right right right um and this is from coming from a um and this is from coming from a um and this is from coming from a Scandinavian so um you know so um and Scandinavian so um you know so um and Scandinavian so um you know so um and and now of course if you go colder you and now of course if you go colder you and now of course if you go colder you don't need to be in there as long and so don't need to be in there as long and so don't need to be in there as long and so the studies looking how long were the the studies looking how long were the the studies looking how long were the subjects in the cold in your St in your subjects in the cold in your St in your subjects in the cold in your St in your study study study so they only did so they only did so they only did it in the water so they didn't really it in the water so they didn't really it in the water so they didn't really swim around for a lot of time so it was swim around for a lot of time so it was swim around for a lot of time so it was between a one to two minutes between a one to two minutes between a one to two minutes um and maybe even 30 seconds for some of
13:00um and maybe even 30 seconds for some of um and maybe even 30 seconds for some of the tips because they did go into the the tips because they did go into the the tips because they did go into the sauna as well and heated off the skin sauna as well and heated off the skin sauna as well and heated off the skin the body and then they went into the the body and then they went into the the body and then they went into the water again and sit there for a while water again and sit there for a while water again and sit there for a while but they didn't have to sit there for but they didn't have to sit there for but they didn't have to sit there for that long and the reason why I chose that long and the reason why I chose that long and the reason why I chose um this where you can say the people who um this where you can say the people who um this where you can say the people who did winter swimming in this way is did winter swimming in this way is did winter swimming in this way is because this is what I found out was because this is what I found out was because this is what I found out was very typical for winter swimmers in very typical for winter swimmers in very typical for winter swimmers in Denmark and also I was not a winter Denmark and also I was not a winter Denmark and also I was not a winter swimmer so I was thinking how can I go swimmer so I was thinking how can I go swimmer so I was thinking how can I go about this activating maybe my about this activating maybe my about this activating maybe my metabolism in the easiest way or with as metabolism in the easiest way or with as metabolism in the easiest way or with as little as possible so maybe it doesn't little as possible so maybe it doesn't little as possible so maybe it doesn't have to be very extreme I swimming for have to be very extreme I swimming for have to be very extreme I swimming for 200 meters or stuff like that maybe we 200 meters or stuff like that maybe we 200 meters or stuff like that maybe we can do this actually activating the can do this actually activating the can do this actually activating the metabolism with way less actually so we metabolism with way less actually so we metabolism with way less actually so we don't have to go extreme and we also don't have to go extreme and we also don't have to go extreme and we also really need to listen to our body so do really need to listen to our body so do really need to listen to our body so do doing I didn't do this protocol because doing I didn't do this protocol because doing I didn't do this protocol because I wanted to go out and say do 11 minutes I wanted to go out and say do 11 minutes I wanted to go out and say do 11 minutes per week or do that many seconds per per per week or do that many seconds per per per week or do that many seconds per per dip or per swim it's all about listening
14:00dip or per swim it's all about listening dip or per swim it's all about listening to your own body and also to your own body and also to your own body and also um like you said before you have to um um like you said before you have to um um like you said before you have to um a job just according to how the a job just according to how the a job just according to how the temperature is in the water and and how temperature is in the water and and how temperature is in the water and and how long you can stay so just listen to your long you can stay so just listen to your long you can stay so just listen to your body your body will tell you now it's body your body will tell you now it's body your body will tell you now it's enough and you can go up so don't yeah I enough and you can go up so don't yeah I enough and you can go up so don't yeah I think it's not enough it's not necessary think it's not enough it's not necessary think it's not enough it's not necessary at least so at least so at least so yeah yeah yeah um thank you for that so this is really um thank you for that so this is really um thank you for that so this is really an important point and as people are on an important point and as people are on an important point and as people are on here and listening please and this will here and listening please and this will here and listening please and this will be recorded and posted please understand be recorded and posted please understand be recorded and posted please understand that we're building towards the that we're building towards the that we're building towards the protocols but it's very important to protocols but it's very important to protocols but it's very important to understand the logic behind the understand the logic behind the understand the logic behind the protocols I can't emphasize this enough protocols I can't emphasize this enough protocols I can't emphasize this enough people always want to know what's the people always want to know what's the people always want to know what's the ideal protocol but if you understand the ideal protocol but if you understand the ideal protocol but if you understand the logic then for instance if you travel logic then for instance if you travel logic then for instance if you travel and you're in a place where and you're in a place where and you're in a place where um the shower doesn't go very cold you um the shower doesn't go very cold you um the shower doesn't go very cold you can adjust the timing in the appropriate can adjust the timing in the appropriate can adjust the timing in the appropriate way let's say way let's say way let's say um for instance I I put out there that I um for instance I I put out there that I um for instance I I put out there that I think that people should try and get think that people should try and get think that people should try and get um into cold water
15:00um into cold water um into cold water two to three times a week that could be two to three times a week that could be two to three times a week that could be cold shower ideally it would be cold shower ideally it would be cold shower ideally it would be immersion but if you can't cold shower immersion but if you can't cold shower immersion but if you can't cold shower and if you can't do cold shower because and if you can't do cold shower because and if you can't do cold shower because some people can't do that then indeed some people can't do that then indeed some people can't do that then indeed getting outside where it's cold in a getting outside where it's cold in a getting outside where it's cold in a minimum of appropriate clothing minimum of appropriate clothing minimum of appropriate clothing um that will vary on context and culture um that will vary on context and culture um that will vary on context and culture um but will is another way to get cold um but will is another way to get cold um but will is another way to get cold so it's about getting cold it's not so it's about getting cold it's not so it's about getting cold it's not about the water or the ice or the shower about the water or the ice or the shower about the water or the ice or the shower or the um thing now the one exception is or the um thing now the one exception is or the um thing now the one exception is cryo these cryo Chambers that's a whole cryo these cryo Chambers that's a whole cryo these cryo Chambers that's a whole other business and and here's my other business and and here's my other business and and here's my aversion to cryo first of all it's very aversion to cryo first of all it's very aversion to cryo first of all it's very expensive and very few people have expensive and very few people have expensive and very few people have access to it the other thing is that access to it the other thing is that access to it the other thing is that um it's just not feasible for 99 of um it's just not feasible for 99 of um it's just not feasible for 99 of people to rely on cryo for their for people to rely on cryo for their for people to rely on cryo for their for repeated cold exposure so I want to just repeated cold exposure so I want to just repeated cold exposure so I want to just want to know the kind of home right it's want to know the kind of home right it's want to know the kind of home right it's not water it's air and air is definitely not water it's air and air is definitely not water it's air and air is definitely different in in the way of getting your different in in the way of getting your different in in the way of getting your body cold so it's it's different body cold so it's it's different body cold so it's it's different yes yeah absolutely
16:00yes yeah absolutely yes yeah absolutely um so in terms of so I think we can say um so in terms of so I think we can say um so in terms of so I think we can say at a first pass to get the improvements at a first pass to get the improvements at a first pass to get the improvements in metabolic function and also in metabolic function and also in metabolic function and also improvements in mental resilience but improvements in mental resilience but improvements in mental resilience but mostly metabolic function two to three mostly metabolic function two to three mostly metabolic function two to three times per week you arrived at this 11 times per week you arrived at this 11 times per week you arrived at this 11 minute per week total not 11 minutes per minute per week total not 11 minutes per minute per week total not 11 minutes per session however however some people session however however some people session however however some people might get into might get into might get into um cold water that um that is very cold um cold water that um that is very cold um cold water that um that is very cold like I have a 40 degree uh plunge so like I have a 40 degree uh plunge so like I have a 40 degree uh plunge so this is really cold this is really cold this is really cold um and I try and get in there for one to um and I try and get in there for one to um and I try and get in there for one to three minutes two to three times per three minutes two to three times per three minutes two to three times per week so if it's colder then you can week so if it's colder then you can week so if it's colder then you can probably get away with shorter exposure probably get away with shorter exposure probably get away with shorter exposure and when you and when you ex and when I and when you and when you ex and when I and when you and when you ex and when I said in a in a post I put you want to said in a in a post I put you want to said in a in a post I put you want to get into the the feeling should be that get into the the feeling should be that get into the the feeling should be that you want to get out but you can stay in you want to get out but you can stay in you want to get out but you can stay in safely and that's and that's because the safely and that's and that's because the safely and that's and that's because the desire to get out is stimulated by desire to get out is stimulated by desire to get out is stimulated by adrenaline and the increase in adrenaline and the increase in adrenaline and the increase in Adrenaline is actually really a key Adrenaline is actually really a key Adrenaline is actually really a key component of activating Brown fat
17:00component of activating Brown fat component of activating Brown fat yes yes yes norepinephrine right and this gets into norepinephrine right and this gets into norepinephrine right and this gets into some uh nitty-gritty signs that you and some uh nitty-gritty signs that you and some uh nitty-gritty signs that you and that maybe we don't have to go into that maybe we don't have to go into that maybe we don't have to go into um about the way that the nerves um about the way that the nerves um about the way that the nerves literally the fat has input from the literally the fat has input from the literally the fat has input from the nerves that releases norepinephrine nerves that releases norepinephrine nerves that releases norepinephrine um onto the fat so get on get um onto the fat so get on get um onto the fat so get on get uncomfortably cold but not dangerously uncomfortably cold but not dangerously uncomfortably cold but not dangerously cold one to three times per week and 11 cold one to three times per week and 11 cold one to three times per week and 11 minutes per week I think is a wonderful minutes per week I think is a wonderful minutes per week I think is a wonderful number because that's very doable you number because that's very doable you number because that's very doable you could do one session of 11 minutes you could do one session of 11 minutes you could do one session of 11 minutes you could do three sessions of you know of could do three sessions of you know of could do three sessions of you know of of two to four minutes there are a lot of two to four minutes there are a lot of two to four minutes there are a lot of ways to do this of ways to do this of ways to do this um so so and and folks I want to really um so so and and folks I want to really um so so and and folks I want to really point out that it is Susana Dr Susana point out that it is Susana Dr Susana point out that it is Susana Dr Susana solberg's um uh protocol that she solberg's um uh protocol that she solberg's um uh protocol that she arrived at from this study so she arrived at from this study so she arrived at from this study so she deserves credit I'm the one talking at deserves credit I'm the one talking at deserves credit I'm the one talking at the moment but she will uh but she's the the moment but she will uh but she's the the moment but she will uh but she's the one that deserves credit so this is one that deserves credit so this is one that deserves credit so this is really important someone has finally really important someone has finally really important someone has finally given us based on human
18:00given us based on human given us based on human peer-reviewed stringent data in an peer-reviewed stringent data in an peer-reviewed stringent data in an excellent Journal excellent Journal excellent Journal cell reports medicine which is a cell reports medicine which is a cell reports medicine which is a fabulous journal to the a protocol which fabulous journal to the a protocol which fabulous journal to the a protocol which is not the only cult protocol you could is not the only cult protocol you could is not the only cult protocol you could use of course but is it 11 minutes per use of course but is it 11 minutes per use of course but is it 11 minutes per week total divided up into two or three week total divided up into two or three week total divided up into two or three sessions or one long 11 minute session sessions or one long 11 minute session sessions or one long 11 minute session get uncomfortably cold get uncomfortably cold get uncomfortably cold thank you so much for that the field has thank you so much for that the field has thank you so much for that the field has really needed this the world has needed really needed this the world has needed really needed this the world has needed this tell us tell us just briefly about this tell us tell us just briefly about this tell us tell us just briefly about a few of the benefits of getting cold a few of the benefits of getting cold a few of the benefits of getting cold for 11 minutes a week and then let's for 11 minutes a week and then let's for 11 minutes a week and then let's talk about heat I want to talk about talk about heat I want to talk about talk about heat I want to talk about heat separately what are some of the heat separately what are some of the heat separately what are some of the benefits that people benefits that people benefits that people um that you observed in your studies and um that you observed in your studies and um that you observed in your studies and as a consequence of this yeah yeah if I as a consequence of this yeah yeah if I as a consequence of this yeah yeah if I just can Andrew just add on to the code just can Andrew just add on to the code just can Andrew just add on to the code the protocol because it's a it you can the protocol because it's a it you can the protocol because it's a it you can use the cool shower of course with the use the cool shower of course with the use the cool shower of course with the dips and you can also actually if you dips and you can also actually if you dips and you can also actually if you don't have the time then actually just don't have the time then actually just don't have the time then actually just cold water on handsome feets and face is cold water on handsome feets and face is cold water on handsome feets and face is actually also something to actually
19:00actually also something to actually actually also something to actually increase your metabolism so it actually increase your metabolism so it actually increase your metabolism so it actually tested that as well in in the study so tested that as well in in the study so tested that as well in in the study so you can also see the data in in the you can also see the data in in the you can also see the data in in the paper that I've just published too can I paper that I've just published too can I paper that I've just published too can I pause you about that so we had Craig pause you about that so we had Craig pause you about that so we had Craig Heller uh from Stanford on the podcast Heller uh from Stanford on the podcast Heller uh from Stanford on the podcast we're going to have to get you on the we're going to have to get you on the we're going to have to get you on the podcast as I guess and he talked about podcast as I guess and he talked about podcast as I guess and he talked about the glaborous skin of the hands you know the glaborous skin of the hands you know the glaborous skin of the hands you know forget my cow forgive my calluses forget my cow forgive my calluses forget my cow forgive my calluses um Natalie kalistan ends up um from from um Natalie kalistan ends up um from from um Natalie kalistan ends up um from from just various uh you know from exercise just various uh you know from exercise just various uh you know from exercise basically so um despite my badly calcium basically so um despite my badly calcium basically so um despite my badly calcium so so so um glaborous skin on the hands the upper um glaborous skin on the hands the upper um glaborous skin on the hands the upper half of the face and on the bottoms of half of the face and on the bottoms of half of the face and on the bottoms of the feet are the most effective way to the feet are the most effective way to the feet are the most effective way to cool the core of your body temperature cool the core of your body temperature cool the core of your body temperature so um so we can also explore that in uh so um so we can also explore that in uh so um so we can also explore that in uh in your paper further but so and when you say activates what were so and when you say activates what were the downstream consequences on insulin the downstream consequences on insulin the downstream consequences on insulin metabolism and any other measures that metabolism and any other measures that metabolism and any other measures that you took yeah so we did see we measured you took yeah so we did see we measured you took yeah so we did see we measured in in a group of healthy lean men who
20:00in in a group of healthy lean men who in in a group of healthy lean men who were winter swimmers and they were were winter swimmers and they were were winter swimmers and they were already trained winter swimmers and we already trained winter swimmers and we already trained winter swimmers and we compared those to a match control group compared those to a match control group compared those to a match control group and I tried really to focus on on and I tried really to focus on on and I tried really to focus on on multiple things so I had as much of a multiple things so I had as much of a multiple things so I had as much of a balance the two groups as possible and balance the two groups as possible and balance the two groups as possible and we did see that the winter swimmers had we did see that the winter swimmers had we did see that the winter swimmers had we could say a lower production of we could say a lower production of we could say a lower production of insulin and during we measured that on insulin and during we measured that on insulin and during we measured that on multiple days during fasting when we're multiple days during fasting when we're multiple days during fasting when we're just laying down and relaxing they just just laying down and relaxing they just just laying down and relaxing they just had lower production of insulin in had lower production of insulin in had lower production of insulin in general we also did a glucose tolerance general we also did a glucose tolerance general we also did a glucose tolerance test where we actually tested how fast test where we actually tested how fast test where we actually tested how fast do they metabolize their sugar in the do they metabolize their sugar in the do they metabolize their sugar in the bloodstream so they drank a lot of sugar bloodstream so they drank a lot of sugar bloodstream so they drank a lot of sugar and then we measured the insulin levels and then we measured the insulin levels and then we measured the insulin levels and we saw that they had lower levels and we saw that they had lower levels and we saw that they had lower levels after two hours but also on another day after two hours but also on another day after two hours but also on another day during Cooling and during the warm day during Cooling and during the warm day during Cooling and during the warm day we had different protocols for this we had different protocols for this we had different protocols for this testing both cold and warm on and we did testing both cold and warm on and we did testing both cold and warm on and we did see that they had insulin production see that they had insulin production see that they had insulin production which was just lower during the whole
21:00which was just lower during the whole which was just lower during the whole study and we also saw that the that they study and we also saw that the that they study and we also saw that the that they had a higher energy expenditure during had a higher energy expenditure during had a higher energy expenditure during code and that was very surprising for us code and that was very surprising for us code and that was very surprising for us we didn't really expect that um that men we didn't really expect that um that men we didn't really expect that um that men in an age of 24 in in average uh we in an age of 24 in in average uh we in an age of 24 in in average uh we could see any difference in their could see any difference in their could see any difference in their metabolism in that way but we saw when metabolism in that way but we saw when metabolism in that way but we saw when we cooled them down we could see that we cooled them down we could see that we cooled them down we could see that they they actually they they actually they they actually had a higher energy expenditure the had a higher energy expenditure the had a higher energy expenditure the winter storms compared to the control winter storms compared to the control winter storms compared to the control group group group um yeah and lower leptin levels also so um yeah and lower leptin levels also so um yeah and lower leptin levels also so it was very interesting that's just some it was very interesting that's just some it was very interesting that's just some of the the things that we saw the lower of the the things that we saw the lower of the the things that we saw the lower code sorry sorry to interrupt I just I code sorry sorry to interrupt I just I code sorry sorry to interrupt I just I know that um so and I know that people know that um so and I know that people know that um so and I know that people are going to give me a hard time about are going to give me a hard time about are going to give me a hard time about interrupting but the interruptions I interrupting but the interruptions I interrupting but the interruptions I just want to be clear but the just want to be clear but the just want to be clear but the interruptions are are well uh the interruptions are are well uh the interruptions are are well uh the interruptions are designed to make sure interruptions are designed to make sure interruptions are designed to make sure that there's Clarity that everyone that there's Clarity that everyone that there's Clarity that everyone understands the interruptions are not understands the interruptions are not understands the interruptions are not because uh Susanna and I are both in a
22:00because uh Susanna and I are both in a because uh Susanna and I are both in a similar field we could riff endlessly on similar field we could riff endlessly on similar field we could riff endlessly on the detailed mechanisms um and get the detailed mechanisms um and get the detailed mechanisms um and get really down in the weeds but I want to really down in the weeds but I want to really down in the weeds but I want to make sure that people really understand make sure that people really understand make sure that people really understand all of these components so what I heard all of these components so what I heard all of these components so what I heard correct me if I'm wrong is that correct me if I'm wrong is that correct me if I'm wrong is that um it had a that like 11 minutes of cold um it had a that like 11 minutes of cold um it had a that like 11 minutes of cold exposure had this property of reducing exposure had this property of reducing exposure had this property of reducing the insulin response which is a good the insulin response which is a good the insulin response which is a good thing in response to what's called a thing in response to what's called a thing in response to what's called a glucose challenge where you are when glucose challenge where you are when glucose challenge where you are when when Susana says um uh fast it doesn't when Susana says um uh fast it doesn't when Susana says um uh fast it doesn't necessarily mean chronically fast it necessarily mean chronically fast it necessarily mean chronically fast it means that they haven't eaten anything means that they haven't eaten anything means that they haven't eaten anything very in last eight hours then they very in last eight hours then they very in last eight hours then they ingest sugar blood sugar goes up and the ingest sugar blood sugar goes up and the ingest sugar blood sugar goes up and the the role of the hormone insulin is to the role of the hormone insulin is to the role of the hormone insulin is to mobilize and sequester that that blood mobilize and sequester that that blood mobilize and sequester that that blood sugar keep it in range and so the size sugar keep it in range and so the size sugar keep it in range and so the size of the insulin response is one way of of the insulin response is one way of of the insulin response is one way of predicting or understanding your how predicting or understanding your how predicting or understanding your how healthy your blood sugar metabolism is healthy your blood sugar metabolism is healthy your blood sugar metabolism is and the cold exposure allowed these and the cold exposure allowed these and the cold exposure allowed these people to use less insulin to control people to use less insulin to control people to use less insulin to control the blood sugar and that's a very good
23:00the blood sugar and that's a very good the blood sugar and that's a very good thing you don't want High insulin thing you don't want High insulin thing you don't want High insulin um under most conditions at all okay so um under most conditions at all okay so um under most conditions at all okay so so cold exposure can help yeah so sorry so cold exposure can help yeah so sorry so cold exposure can help yeah so sorry I I realize it's an interruption but I I realize it's an interruption but I I realize it's an interruption but um it's a little this is just um part of um it's a little this is just um part of um it's a little this is just um part of making sure everyone's on the same page making sure everyone's on the same page making sure everyone's on the same page so 11 minutes per week of getting cold so 11 minutes per week of getting cold so 11 minutes per week of getting cold and again I'm still seeing these and again I'm still seeing these and again I'm still seeing these questions it doesn't matter if it's cold questions it doesn't matter if it's cold questions it doesn't matter if it's cold outside cold shower cold ice tub I feel outside cold shower cold ice tub I feel outside cold shower cold ice tub I feel like people are going to ask us for the like people are going to ask us for the like people are going to ask us for the next hundred years but the fact of the next hundred years but the fact of the next hundred years but the fact of the matter is it's about you getting cold matter is it's about you getting cold matter is it's about you getting cold how cold uncomfortably cold for 11 how cold uncomfortably cold for 11 how cold uncomfortably cold for 11 minutes a week but uncomfortable but minutes a week but uncomfortable but minutes a week but uncomfortable but safe right yeah so safe right yeah so safe right yeah so um and so this is the key principle okay um and so this is the key principle okay um and so this is the key principle okay and how cold is uncomfortable will and how cold is uncomfortable will and how cold is uncomfortable will depend on a couple things and one of depend on a couple things and one of depend on a couple things and one of those which you pointed out and I love those which you pointed out and I love those which you pointed out and I love this is how much Brown fat you already this is how much Brown fat you already this is how much Brown fat you already have and so the more Brown fat you have have and so the more Brown fat you have have and so the more Brown fat you have the more comfortable you Dr Solberg the more comfortable you Dr Solberg the more comfortable you Dr Solberg Susanna's work shows that the more Brown Susanna's work shows that the more Brown Susanna's work shows that the more Brown fat you the more cold exposure you do
24:00fat you the more cold exposure you do fat you the more cold exposure you do the more Brown fat you generate the more the more Brown fat you generate the more the more Brown fat you generate the more Brown fat you have the warmer you will Brown fat you have the warmer you will Brown fat you have the warmer you will be at just walking around and waking up be at just walking around and waking up be at just walking around and waking up in the morning Etc and when you get into in the morning Etc and when you get into in the morning Etc and when you get into uncomfortable cold again you achieve an uncomfortable cold again you achieve an uncomfortable cold again you achieve an even greater metabolic boost okay so even greater metabolic boost okay so even greater metabolic boost okay so there's three things going on there and there's three things going on there and there's three things going on there and this is not for a lot of people this is this is not for a lot of people this is this is not for a lot of people this is going to be a little bit hard to track going to be a little bit hard to track going to be a little bit hard to track getting into cold water allows you to be getting into cold water allows you to be getting into cold water allows you to be more comfortable at neutral temperatures more comfortable at neutral temperatures more comfortable at neutral temperatures wherever normally you're a chilly person wherever normally you're a chilly person wherever normally you're a chilly person it will allow you to be a warm person so it will allow you to be a warm person so it will allow you to be a warm person so to speak and when you get into to speak and when you get into to speak and when you get into uncomfortable cold the amplitude of the uncomfortable cold the amplitude of the uncomfortable cold the amplitude of the effect the the on metabolism will be effect the the on metabolism will be effect the the on metabolism will be increased so you are becoming a hotter increased so you are becoming a hotter increased so you are becoming a hotter furnace Your Capacity Your Capacity to furnace Your Capacity Your Capacity to furnace Your Capacity Your Capacity to burn hotter is greater okay just sorry burn hotter is greater okay just sorry burn hotter is greater okay just sorry to sort of um take over the conversation to sort of um take over the conversation to sort of um take over the conversation that way but I want to make sure that that way but I want to make sure that that way but I want to make sure that all the amazing points you made are are all the amazing points you made are are all the amazing points you made are are really drilled home I'm going to ask you really drilled home I'm going to ask you
25:00really drilled home I'm going to ask you a couple questions and then I want to a couple questions and then I want to a couple questions and then I want to move to heat um the questions come from move to heat um the questions come from move to heat um the questions come from the questions Ben and thank you also for the questions Ben and thank you also for the questions Ben and thank you also for those of you that are putting in those of you that are putting in those of you that are putting in comments for those of you that are comments for those of you that are comments for those of you that are putting in inappropriate comments please putting in inappropriate comments please putting in inappropriate comments please leave the conversation leave the conversation leave the conversation um for those of you that are putting um for those of you that are putting um for those of you that are putting appropriate comments thank you for being appropriate comments thank you for being appropriate comments thank you for being here by the way we we don't take your um here by the way we we don't take your um here by the way we we don't take your um the inappropriate comments seriously the inappropriate comments seriously the inappropriate comments seriously anyway anyway anyway um so don't worry about it um so don't worry about it um so don't worry about it um we do have someone tracking who's um we do have someone tracking who's um we do have someone tracking who's putting them though and everyone's putting them though and everyone's putting them though and everyone's getting blocked who puts an appropriate getting blocked who puts an appropriate getting blocked who puts an appropriate comments just FYI I'm very I'm very it's comments just FYI I'm very I'm very it's comments just FYI I'm very I'm very it's classroom rules like a university classroom rules like a university classroom rules like a university classroom classroom classroom um okay so um okay so um okay so um there was a question about um there was a question about um there was a question about um um how to uh the difference between chronic how to uh the difference between chronic how to uh the difference between chronic and acute exposure so people who do this and acute exposure so people who do this and acute exposure so people who do this repeatedly versus somebody who does it repeatedly versus somebody who does it repeatedly versus somebody who does it for the first time you looked at Chronic for the first time you looked at Chronic for the first time you looked at Chronic winter swimmers or winter cold exposure winter swimmers or winter cold exposure winter swimmers or winter cold exposure so how often do I need to do this before so how often do I need to do this before so how often do I need to do this before I can start seeing these long-term I can start seeing these long-term I can start seeing these long-term benefits yeah so so
26:00benefits yeah so so benefits yeah so so um I have only done you can say it um I have only done you can say it um I have only done you can say it published one paper so and that is in a published one paper so and that is in a published one paper so and that is in a trained winter swimmers which have they trained winter swimmers which have they trained winter swimmers which have they have been swimming for at least two have been swimming for at least two have been swimming for at least two winter swimming seasons and I don't winter swimming seasons and I don't winter swimming seasons and I don't think it's that much actually so so at think it's that much actually so so at think it's that much actually so so at least if you can stick to if you can get least if you can stick to if you can get least if you can stick to if you can get through the first season then I think through the first season then I think through the first season then I think you will you'll be able to to uh to yeah you will you'll be able to to uh to yeah you will you'll be able to to uh to yeah see some of these benefits but um you see some of these benefits but um you see some of these benefits but um you can say that there's also studies out can say that there's also studies out can say that there's also studies out there showing that if you went to swim there showing that if you went to swim there showing that if you went to swim just one winter swimming season that just one winter swimming season that just one winter swimming season that there is some moderation in the insulin there is some moderation in the insulin there is some moderation in the insulin levels and that is tested in levels and that is tested in levels and that is tested in um middle aged men and women so there is um middle aged men and women so there is um middle aged men and women so there is some studies one study at least showing some studies one study at least showing some studies one study at least showing that there might be something a that there might be something a that there might be something a something already changing already at something already changing already at something already changing already at the One season and I think if you if you the One season and I think if you if you the One season and I think if you if you start out with the cold exposure uh start out with the cold exposure uh start out with the cold exposure uh jumping into to cold water you will jumping into to cold water you will jumping into to cold water you will increase your metabolism right away so increase your metabolism right away so increase your metabolism right away so the acute the acute the acute exposure will immediately help already
27:00exposure will immediately help already exposure will immediately help already in your body so and so it counts for in your body so and so it counts for in your body so and so it counts for every time you go so I don't think it every time you go so I don't think it every time you go so I don't think it takes two seasons to uh to to have these takes two seasons to uh to to have these takes two seasons to uh to to have these benefits but that is what I tested so I benefits but that is what I tested so I benefits but that is what I tested so I can't say what one season exactly would can't say what one season exactly would can't say what one season exactly would do with your brown fat but I think it do with your brown fat but I think it do with your brown fat but I think it might be very similar actually so so it might be very similar actually so so it might be very similar actually so so it it you would you would get it you would you would get it you would you would get um adapted really quickly to the code um adapted really quickly to the code um adapted really quickly to the code and also your metabolism so I think it and also your metabolism so I think it and also your metabolism so I think it goes quickly yeah great so in my thank goes quickly yeah great so in my thank goes quickly yeah great so in my thank you for that in my experience I'm doing you for that in my experience I'm doing you for that in my experience I'm doing three times a week for two to four three times a week for two to four three times a week for two to four minutes by the third week I notice I can minutes by the third week I notice I can minutes by the third week I notice I can be much more comfortable at any be much more comfortable at any be much more comfortable at any temperature and again doing this 11 temperature and again doing this 11 temperature and again doing this 11 minutes of cold exposure per week not minutes of cold exposure per week not minutes of cold exposure per week not only allows you to be comfortable at only allows you to be comfortable at only allows you to be comfortable at colder temperatures but when you get colder temperatures but when you get colder temperatures but when you get into temperatures that are uncomfortable into temperatures that are uncomfortable into temperatures that are uncomfortable for you you get an even bigger sized for you you get an even bigger sized for you you get an even bigger sized effect so it's so you so I think the way effect so it's so you so I think the way effect so it's so you so I think the way to think about it is much like to think about it is much like to think about it is much like flexibility or weight training that
28:00flexibility or weight training that flexibility or weight training that there's an adaptation and that there's an adaptation and that there's an adaptation and that adaptation makes you stronger but it adaptation makes you stronger but it adaptation makes you stronger but it also gives you a greater capacity to do also gives you a greater capacity to do also gives you a greater capacity to do more work so to speak more work so to speak more work so to speak um you shouldn't always do the same um you shouldn't always do the same um you shouldn't always do the same temperature just very a bit it doesn't temperature just very a bit it doesn't temperature just very a bit it doesn't matter because it's it's it's also a matter because it's it's it's also a matter because it's it's it's also a very good thing that that the body is is very good thing that that the body is is very good thing that that the body is is there is difficult temperatures it there is difficult temperatures it there is difficult temperatures it doesn't have to be ice cold all the time doesn't have to be ice cold all the time doesn't have to be ice cold all the time or it the the challenge for the body is or it the the challenge for the body is or it the the challenge for the body is also to exactly adapt into the different also to exactly adapt into the different also to exactly adapt into the different temperatures so season is very good if temperatures so season is very good if temperatures so season is very good if you have access to the sea or to a lake you have access to the sea or to a lake you have access to the sea or to a lake or something like that that is really or something like that that is really or something like that that is really really good but put a barrel in your really good but put a barrel in your really good but put a barrel in your garden just with cold water and that garden just with cold water and that garden just with cold water and that will bury too so that could also just will bury too so that could also just will bury too so that could also just work so yeah I love this I uh I read work so yeah I love this I uh I read work so yeah I love this I uh I read something in the press release for your something in the press release for your something in the press release for your study and I and I tried to read it in study and I and I tried to read it in study and I and I tried to read it in Swedish on and once on a live and I Swedish on and once on a live and I Swedish on and once on a live and I totally butchered I have Danish totally butchered I have Danish totally butchered I have Danish relatives by the way yeah yeah my relatives by the way yeah yeah my relatives by the way yeah yeah my stepmother is Danish and and I've spent stepmother is Danish and and I've spent stepmother is Danish and and I've spent time in Denmark in it I was spend time time in Denmark in it I was spend time time in Denmark in it I was spend time in Ohio
29:00in Ohio in Ohio um so yeah so um and uh it's a big big um so yeah so um and uh it's a big big um so yeah so um and uh it's a big big fan of Denmark and Scandinavia generally fan of Denmark and Scandinavia generally fan of Denmark and Scandinavia generally so one one of the questions so one one of the questions so one one of the questions um or one of the things that was in that um or one of the things that was in that um or one of the things that was in that press release was this idea that in the press release was this idea that in the press release was this idea that in the antis when we're heading toward towards antis when we're heading toward towards antis when we're heading toward towards winter months winter months winter months and the days are getting colder we and the days are getting colder we and the days are getting colder we should do cold exposure to prepare us to should do cold exposure to prepare us to should do cold exposure to prepare us to for our body to be a warmer furnace for for our body to be a warmer furnace for for our body to be a warmer furnace for winter yes winter yes winter yes yes this I think is very important and yes this I think is very important and yes this I think is very important and often discussed I'll repeat that as you often discussed I'll repeat that as you often discussed I'll repeat that as you are heading into the winter months so are heading into the winter months so are heading into the winter months so fall in the northern hemisphere now and fall in the northern hemisphere now and fall in the northern hemisphere now and it's starting to get colder and colder it's starting to get colder and colder it's starting to get colder and colder that is the time to start doing cold that is the time to start doing cold that is the time to start doing cold exposure because it will allow you to be exposure because it will allow you to be exposure because it will allow you to be out to feel warmer at cold temperatures out to feel warmer at cold temperatures out to feel warmer at cold temperatures and there are some studies looking at and there are some studies looking at and there are some studies looking at the benefits of cold exposure on immune the benefits of cold exposure on immune the benefits of cold exposure on immune function this recent study on function this recent study on function this recent study on immunological function and there are a immunological function and there are a immunological function and there are a lot of you know viruses and bacteria lot of you know viruses and bacteria lot of you know viruses and bacteria going around in Winter all the time not going around in Winter all the time not going around in Winter all the time not just in the recent events just in the recent events just in the recent events um so um so um so um so then as summer comes around you
30:00um so then as summer comes around you um so then as summer comes around you could in theory do the opposite start could in theory do the opposite start could in theory do the opposite start doing heat exposure in the Springs to doing heat exposure in the Springs to doing heat exposure in the Springs to prepare yourself to be more acclimated prepare yourself to be more acclimated prepare yourself to be more acclimated to heat in the summer so this is the to heat in the summer so this is the to heat in the summer so this is the importance of a mechanistic logic rather importance of a mechanistic logic rather importance of a mechanistic logic rather than just telling people this is what than just telling people this is what than just telling people this is what you do now you do now you do now um to just keep going here a lot of um to just keep going here a lot of um to just keep going here a lot of people have asked me a question which I people have asked me a question which I people have asked me a question which I think is a good transition for the next think is a good transition for the next think is a good transition for the next point which is let's say I were to do point which is let's say I were to do point which is let's say I were to do five minutes of cold shower or cold dunk five minutes of cold shower or cold dunk five minutes of cold shower or cold dunk um and uh and then is it okay for me to um and uh and then is it okay for me to um and uh and then is it okay for me to then take a hot shower before or should then take a hot shower before or should then take a hot shower before or should I try and stay cold what is the the role I try and stay cold what is the the role I try and stay cold what is the the role of heat before or after the protocol for of heat before or after the protocol for of heat before or after the protocol for cold if you for instance um go into the cold if you for instance um go into the cold for for five minutes and then you take a for for five minutes and then you take a for for five minutes and then you take a hot shower afterwards do you still get hot shower afterwards do you still get hot shower afterwards do you still get the positive effects of cold exposure the positive effects of cold exposure the positive effects of cold exposure yeah well so I think
31:00yeah well so I think yeah well so I think going right from the code into a warm going right from the code into a warm going right from the code into a warm shower that should people should be a shower that should people should be a shower that should people should be a bit cautious about that because you also bit cautious about that because you also bit cautious about that because you also have just numb your your your have just numb your your your have just numb your your your um cells in your in your skin so your um cells in your in your skin so your um cells in your in your skin so your nerves endings are a bit numb so you nerves endings are a bit numb so you nerves endings are a bit numb so you won't feel exactly what temperature you won't feel exactly what temperature you won't feel exactly what temperature you are actually in the shower so it could are actually in the shower so it could are actually in the shower so it could be really hot and that's not really that be really hot and that's not really that be really hot and that's not really that great for you your skin so maybe just great for you your skin so maybe just great for you your skin so maybe just wait a bit and maybe just optimize in wait a bit and maybe just optimize in wait a bit and maybe just optimize in your house or outside and just let the your house or outside and just let the your house or outside and just let the body actually heat up by itself because body actually heat up by itself because body actually heat up by itself because that is actually also uh helping your that is actually also uh helping your that is actually also uh helping your metabolism so if if you can maybe wait a metabolism so if if you can maybe wait a metabolism so if if you can maybe wait a bit with your warm shower that would be bit with your warm shower that would be bit with your warm shower that would be that would help your metabolism as well that would help your metabolism as well that would help your metabolism as well so um so I think if you can stay colder so um so I think if you can stay colder so um so I think if you can stay colder as long as you would like or you have as long as you would like or you have as long as you would like or you have time for it then that is fine I don't time for it then that is fine I don't time for it then that is fine I don't use a hot shower afterwards I just warm use a hot shower afterwards I just warm use a hot shower afterwards I just warm up by myself and I also used to be one up by myself and I also used to be one up by myself and I also used to be one who was very cold all the time but then
32:00who was very cold all the time but then who was very cold all the time but then the winter swimming has actually helped the winter swimming has actually helped the winter swimming has actually helped me with that so I I don't use the the me with that so I I don't use the the me with that so I I don't use the the hot shower but I definitely think you hot shower but I definitely think you hot shower but I definitely think you can I don't think it will take away all can I don't think it will take away all can I don't think it will take away all the the benefits of the cold exposure the the benefits of the cold exposure the the benefits of the cold exposure that you just did in the water in the that you just did in the water in the that you just did in the water in the barrel or in the shower but it barrel or in the shower but it barrel or in the shower but it definitely would be better if you just definitely would be better if you just definitely would be better if you just didn't do it I think didn't do it I think didn't do it I think got it so my now let's talk about sauna got it so my now let's talk about sauna got it so my now let's talk about sauna um just very briefly because I get these um just very briefly because I get these um just very briefly because I get these questions a lot questions a lot questions a lot um I I've I personally am don't use an um I I've I personally am don't use an um I I've I personally am don't use an infrared sauna I use a barrel sauna infrared sauna I use a barrel sauna infrared sauna I use a barrel sauna um uh but I think that there is interest um uh but I think that there is interest um uh but I think that there is interest in infrared for a number of reasons but in infrared for a number of reasons but in infrared for a number of reasons but um I want to just be clear because I um I want to just be clear because I um I want to just be clear because I keep getting this question I've never keep getting this question I've never keep getting this question I've never said that I've never said that infrared said that I've never said that infrared said that I've never said that infrared sauna is bad I've never said that I've sauna is bad I've never said that I've sauna is bad I've never said that I've never said that what I've said is that never said that what I've said is that never said that what I've said is that most infrared saunas don't tend to get most infrared saunas don't tend to get most infrared saunas don't tend to get very hot compared to most Barrel saunas very hot compared to most Barrel saunas very hot compared to most Barrel saunas however just like the discussion with however just like the discussion with however just like the discussion with cold yeah
33:00cold yeah cold yeah there is a an issue people say well is a there is a an issue people say well is a there is a an issue people say well is a hot shower as good as a sauna is a um hot shower as good as a sauna is a um hot shower as good as a sauna is a um steam room as good as a dry sauna steam room as good as a dry sauna steam room as good as a dry sauna remember it's about your body heating up remember it's about your body heating up remember it's about your body heating up it's not about it's how can you heat up it's not about it's how can you heat up it's not about it's how can you heat up your body safely yeah that's the how can your body safely yeah that's the how can your body safely yeah that's the how can you cool your body safely that's the you cool your body safely that's the you cool your body safely that's the challenge you know some people have challenge you know some people have challenge you know some people have asked about ice packs it is true if you asked about ice packs it is true if you asked about ice packs it is true if you put ice packs underneath your armpits or put ice packs underneath your armpits or put ice packs underneath your armpits or um you know uh in various parts of your um you know uh in various parts of your um you know uh in various parts of your body it is cold that will cool you but body it is cold that will cool you but body it is cold that will cool you but that's a lot more challenging and that's a lot more challenging and that's a lot more challenging and impractical than a cold shower so you impractical than a cold shower so you impractical than a cold shower so you know it's it's about you cooling down or know it's it's about you cooling down or know it's it's about you cooling down or heating up it's not about any one heating up it's not about any one heating up it's not about any one particular approach no so so here is the particular approach no so so here is the particular approach no so so here is the the so the minimum effective dose for the so the minimum effective dose for the so the minimum effective dose for cold we know is 11 minutes per week cold we know is 11 minutes per week cold we know is 11 minutes per week ideally divided up into two or three ideally divided up into two or three ideally divided up into two or three sessions sessions sessions what about for heat what sorts of what about for heat what sorts of what about for heat what sorts of benefits are have you observed with heat
34:00benefits are have you observed with heat benefits are have you observed with heat how do we integrate that with a cold how do we integrate that with a cold how do we integrate that with a cold exposure protocol and last point I'll exposure protocol and last point I'll exposure protocol and last point I'll make is that I've read and I've been make is that I've read and I've been make is that I've read and I've been using a protocol for a number of years using a protocol for a number of years using a protocol for a number of years where you do 20 minutes of sauna then where you do 20 minutes of sauna then where you do 20 minutes of sauna then you get outside the Sun and you just you get outside the Sun and you just you get outside the Sun and you just cool off by standing around not getting cool off by standing around not getting cool off by standing around not getting into a cold bath or anything then you into a cold bath or anything then you into a cold bath or anything then you get back into the sauna for 20 minutes get back into the sauna for 20 minutes get back into the sauna for 20 minutes or so and doing that twice a week does or so and doing that twice a week does or so and doing that twice a week does that seem like a reasonable that seem like a reasonable that seem like a reasonable um definitely also a way to go I mean um definitely also a way to go I mean um definitely also a way to go I mean there is I don't think there is one real there is I don't think there is one real there is I don't think there is one real way to do to do these things it's just way to do to do these things it's just way to do to do these things it's just all about temperature and then there's all about temperature and then there's all about temperature and then there's different Medias you can use and then different Medias you can use and then different Medias you can use and then the mid the media can be the the barrel the mid the media can be the the barrel the mid the media can be the the barrel sauna will shoot you are using it could sauna will shoot you are using it could sauna will shoot you are using it could be also a steam bath I think then you be also a steam bath I think then you be also a steam bath I think then you just need to adjust how long you stay just need to adjust how long you stay just need to adjust how long you stay there because if it's steamed and it's there because if it's steamed and it's there because if it's steamed and it's very water there's water in the air the very water there's water in the air the very water there's water in the air the molecules will definitely make it harder molecules will definitely make it harder molecules will definitely make it harder for you to sweat and then you can't stay for you to sweat and then you can't stay for you to sweat and then you can't stay as long if you you then go out and just as long if you you then go out and just as long if you you then go out and just stand in the cold wind which I think to stand in the cold wind which I think to stand in the cold wind which I think to finish are doing a lot
35:00finish are doing a lot finish are doing a lot um and that is also cold and hot and um and that is also cold and hot and um and that is also cold and hot and that is the protocol which I used for my that is the protocol which I used for my that is the protocol which I used for my study so if whether it's the water or study so if whether it's the water or study so if whether it's the water or it's the sauna or you can use the cold it's the sauna or you can use the cold it's the sauna or you can use the cold wind I think just the difference in wind I think just the difference in wind I think just the difference in temperature is is increasing your temperature is is increasing your temperature is is increasing your metabolism and the yeah and set your metabolism and the yeah and set your metabolism and the yeah and set your your body on fire just to to survive your body on fire just to to survive your body on fire just to to survive actually because it's that is actually actually because it's that is actually actually because it's that is actually what the body is thinking I'm gonna die what the body is thinking I'm gonna die what the body is thinking I'm gonna die now it's too hard it's too cold so it's now it's too hard it's too cold so it's now it's too hard it's too cold so it's just preparing yourself for the next just preparing yourself for the next just preparing yourself for the next exposure of super cold or super hot or exposure of super cold or super hot or exposure of super cold or super hot or something like that so I agree on the something like that so I agree on the something like that so I agree on the different Medias it's just how you use different Medias it's just how you use different Medias it's just how you use the different Medias you can do many the different Medias you can do many the different Medias you can do many variable protocols I would yeah I would variable protocols I would yeah I would variable protocols I would yeah I would say so um this is great so you put it up say so um this is great so you put it up say so um this is great so you put it up uh and I think is a wonderful thing to uh and I think is a wonderful thing to uh and I think is a wonderful thing to try and get 57 minutes of sauna per week try and get 57 minutes of sauna per week try and get 57 minutes of sauna per week um and we will talk about temperature in um and we will talk about temperature in um and we will talk about temperature in a minute because I know people like how a minute because I know people like how a minute because I know people like how hot okay you know and remember we're
36:00hot okay you know and remember we're hot okay you know and remember we're talking mechanistic logic if you it's uh talking mechanistic logic if you it's uh talking mechanistic logic if you it's uh uh I wish there was everyone has a uh I wish there was everyone has a uh I wish there was everyone has a different core body temperature and different core body temperature and different core body temperature and everyone has a different heat tolerance everyone has a different heat tolerance everyone has a different heat tolerance so there's no way I can tell you the so there's no way I can tell you the so there's no way I can tell you the temperature that you need to use and Dr temperature that you need to use and Dr temperature that you need to use and Dr Silver can't use do it either so Silver can't use do it either so Silver can't use do it either so um 57 minutes but divide it up right um 57 minutes but divide it up right um 57 minutes but divide it up right because the 57 minutes sauna session one because the 57 minutes sauna session one because the 57 minutes sauna session one session that's a long session I've done session that's a long session I've done session that's a long session I've done those those those um I'm a big fan of Russia of Russian um I'm a big fan of Russia of Russian um I'm a big fan of Russia of Russian Banya I go to it okay whenever I'm in a Banya I go to it okay whenever I'm in a Banya I go to it okay whenever I'm in a big city I try and find a Banya where I big city I try and find a Banya where I big city I try and find a Banya where I can go and those go very hot can go and those go very hot can go and those go very hot very hot but you have to you have to very hot but you have to you have to very hot but you have to you have to build up to it otherwise you can you can build up to it otherwise you can you can build up to it otherwise you can you can damage yourself so 57 minutes per week damage yourself so 57 minutes per week damage yourself so 57 minutes per week does it matter if you do it before or does it matter if you do it before or does it matter if you do it before or after your cold exposure yeah it's just based on physiology I would it's just based on physiology I would say so if you go firstly to the water say so if you go firstly to the water say so if you go firstly to the water you have already cooled down at least
37:00you have already cooled down at least you have already cooled down at least your skin not your core because you your skin not your core because you your skin not your core because you don't stay that long and or most people don't stay that long and or most people don't stay that long and or most people don't they just dip and stay there maybe don't they just dip and stay there maybe don't they just dip and stay there maybe if you say per the protocol which we if you say per the protocol which we if you say per the protocol which we just talked about so maybe for 30 just talked about so maybe for 30 just talked about so maybe for 30 seconds or one minute if they are have seconds or one minute if they are have seconds or one minute if they are have been training a bit and then they go been training a bit and then they go been training a bit and then they go into the sauna then they the the into the sauna then they the the into the sauna then they the the temperature of the skin is already temperature of the skin is already temperature of the skin is already bloomed so you can actually stay in the bloomed so you can actually stay in the bloomed so you can actually stay in the summer a longer time but if you go summer a longer time but if you go summer a longer time but if you go directly at the sauna first then you can directly at the sauna first then you can directly at the sauna first then you can stay that long so then you will probably stay that long so then you will probably stay that long so then you will probably sit there and already sweat the first sit there and already sweat the first sit there and already sweat the first few seconds and then you will go and dip few seconds and then you will go and dip few seconds and then you will go and dip but that's just yeah how long time do but that's just yeah how long time do but that's just yeah how long time do you want to I see yeah so I don't think you want to I see yeah so I don't think you want to I see yeah so I don't think it matters that much it's just what you it matters that much it's just what you it matters that much it's just what you prefer but I would say finish your uh prefer but I would say finish your uh prefer but I would say finish your uh your code and not with the sauna because your code and not with the sauna because your code and not with the sauna because if you're finishing the code then you if you're finishing the code then you if you're finishing the code then you would have to then you ask your body to would have to then you ask your body to would have to then you ask your body to heat up by itself and that takes energy heat up by itself and that takes energy heat up by itself and that takes energy so I would say finish the finish your so I would say finish the finish your so I would say finish the finish your session in the code instead of finishing
38:00session in the code instead of finishing session in the code instead of finishing in the in the in the world in the in the in the world in the in the in the world okay so this is really interesting okay so this is really interesting okay so this is really interesting um I mean this is a question I get a lot um I mean this is a question I get a lot um I mean this is a question I get a lot so my typical protocol is I'll get into so my typical protocol is I'll get into so my typical protocol is I'll get into my sauna for 10 or 15 minutes my sauna for 10 or 15 minutes my sauna for 10 or 15 minutes um and it's hot I run it hot I won't say um and it's hot I run it hot I won't say um and it's hot I run it hot I won't say how hot because I don't want people if how hot because I don't want people if how hot because I don't want people if it's too hot for them or you know they it's too hot for them or you know they it's too hot for them or you know they could damage themselves but could damage themselves but could damage themselves but um uh then I'll get out and if it's the um uh then I'll get out and if it's the um uh then I'll get out and if it's the evening and I want to fall asleep what evening and I want to fall asleep what evening and I want to fall asleep what I'll do is I'll get out and I'll just I'll do is I'll get out and I'll just I'll do is I'll get out and I'll just cool off in the cool air and then I'll cool off in the cool air and then I'll cool off in the cool air and then I'll get back in the sauna for another 10 or get back in the sauna for another 10 or get back in the sauna for another 10 or 15 minutes get out and then I'll take a 15 minutes get out and then I'll take a 15 minutes get out and then I'll take a kind of warm shower you know to and then kind of warm shower you know to and then kind of warm shower you know to and then get into bed because I want my get into bed because I want my get into bed because I want my temperature to drop I don't do cold temperature to drop I don't do cold temperature to drop I don't do cold exposure within a few hours of bed exposure within a few hours of bed exposure within a few hours of bed because it tends to wake me up yeah but because it tends to wake me up yeah but because it tends to wake me up yeah but if it's early in the day what I'll do is if it's early in the day what I'll do is if it's early in the day what I'll do is get into the get into the get into the um into the sauna then into the cold and um into the sauna then into the cold and um into the sauna then into the cold and then back into the sauna but what I'm then back into the sauna but what I'm then back into the sauna but what I'm learning from you is I should probably learning from you is I should probably learning from you is I should probably get back into the cold again so so get back into the cold again so so get back into the cold again so so here's so here's a simple way to think
39:00here's so here's a simple way to think here's so here's a simple way to think about it based on what Dr Solberg is about it based on what Dr Solberg is about it based on what Dr Solberg is telling us if you want to increase your telling us if you want to increase your telling us if you want to increase your metabolism the most metabolism the most metabolism the most end with cold end with cold end with cold yes because then you have to reheat your yes because then you have to reheat your yes because then you have to reheat your body naturally so I'll repeat that again body naturally so I'll repeat that again body naturally so I'll repeat that again let's call this the soberg principle if let's call this the soberg principle if let's call this the soberg principle if you want if you want the soberg you want if you want the soberg you want if you want the soberg principle I'm defining it I'll put it on principle I'm defining it I'll put it on principle I'm defining it I'll put it on Wikipedia The soberg principle says if Wikipedia The soberg principle says if Wikipedia The soberg principle says if you want to get the maximum Metabolic you want to get the maximum Metabolic you want to get the maximum Metabolic Effect Effect Effect of cold exposure don't get into the heat of cold exposure don't get into the heat of cold exposure don't get into the heat afterward because by naturally having to afterward because by naturally having to afterward because by naturally having to reheat your body reheat your body reheat your body using your own Brown fat and thermic using your own Brown fat and thermic using your own Brown fat and thermic mechanisms then you are going to mechanisms then you are going to mechanisms then you are going to get a greater metabolic increase I think get a greater metabolic increase I think get a greater metabolic increase I think this is a really important feature I've this is a really important feature I've this is a really important feature I've never heard this described anywhere Dr never heard this described anywhere Dr never heard this described anywhere Dr Solberg who's right in front of you Solberg who's right in front of you Solberg who's right in front of you Susana gets credit for this Susana gets credit for this Susana gets credit for this um I'm gonna officially call this the um I'm gonna officially call this the um I'm gonna officially call this the soberg principle okay and it makes and soberg principle okay and it makes and soberg principle okay and it makes and it's rational and it's grounded in data
40:00it's rational and it's grounded in data it's rational and it's grounded in data the um the other aspect is the um the other aspect is the um the other aspect is um I don't think most people know this um I don't think most people know this um I don't think most people know this but if you are getting in a hot sauna but if you are getting in a hot sauna but if you are getting in a hot sauna one way to feel more comfortable in a one way to feel more comfortable in a one way to feel more comfortable in a hot sauna is actually to put a towel on hot sauna is actually to put a towel on hot sauna is actually to put a towel on your head a lot of people think well your head a lot of people think well your head a lot of people think well then you're just gonna feel even warmer then you're just gonna feel even warmer then you're just gonna feel even warmer right it's going to be really really right it's going to be really really right it's going to be really really stressful and painful but no that it stressful and painful but no that it stressful and painful but no that it actually insulates your brain from the actually insulates your brain from the actually insulates your brain from the Heat and you feel less of an Impulse to Heat and you feel less of an Impulse to Heat and you feel less of an Impulse to get out and so you can actually be in get out and so you can actually be in get out and so you can actually be in the sauna longer more comfortably if you the sauna longer more comfortably if you the sauna longer more comfortably if you put a towel draped over your head put a towel draped over your head put a towel draped over your head however you have to be careful that you however you have to be careful that you however you have to be careful that you don't expose yourself to heat that is don't expose yourself to heat that is don't expose yourself to heat that is damaging to your damaging to your damaging to your skin or other tissues right yeah okay skin or other tissues right yeah okay skin or other tissues right yeah okay right so right so right so um what is your protocol what do you do um what is your protocol what do you do um what is your protocol what do you do each week each week each week um and for the these sorts of things um and for the these sorts of things um and for the these sorts of things yeah so I I actually uh I do I do yeah so I I actually uh I do I do yeah so I I actually uh I do I do actually mimic the protocol which I've
41:00actually mimic the protocol which I've actually mimic the protocol which I've already did with my my subject so after already did with my my subject so after already did with my my subject so after I did this study with the young healthy I did this study with the young healthy I did this study with the young healthy men which we I just published I also did men which we I just published I also did men which we I just published I also did a randomized control trial afterwards a randomized control trial afterwards a randomized control trial afterwards which is not published yet and that is which is not published yet and that is which is not published yet and that is in men and women which are middle aged in men and women which are middle aged in men and women which are middle aged and they had pre-diabetes and they and they had pre-diabetes and they and they had pre-diabetes and they weren't not going to swim so I had to weren't not going to swim so I had to weren't not going to swim so I had to train them so by training them I had to train them so by training them I had to train them so by training them I had to go myself and I used this protocol so I go myself and I used this protocol so I go myself and I used this protocol so I actually stuck in the water actually stuck in the water actually stuck in the water um and the dip and sometimes I stay um and the dip and sometimes I stay um and the dip and sometimes I stay there for it could be 30 seconds there for it could be 30 seconds there for it could be 30 seconds depending on the temperature as we just depending on the temperature as we just depending on the temperature as we just discussed so it could be one minute but discussed so it could be one minute but discussed so it could be one minute but then I go to the sauna back to the the then I go to the sauna back to the the then I go to the sauna back to the the water to the sauna and then I end in water to the sauna and then I end in water to the sauna and then I end in finish in the water and then I walk home finish in the water and then I walk home finish in the water and then I walk home how long how sorry how long is each one how long how sorry how long is each one how long how sorry how long is each one of those exposures and I'm guessing that of those exposures and I'm guessing that of those exposures and I'm guessing that the one minute cold exposure is very the one minute cold exposure is very the one minute cold exposure is very cold because I've seen your the way cold because I've seen your the way cold because I've seen your the way everyone here should go follow Susanna everyone here should go follow Susanna everyone here should go follow Susanna soberg's Instagram feed she puts up a soberg's Instagram feed she puts up a soberg's Instagram feed she puts up a lot of really interesting information
42:00lot of really interesting information lot of really interesting information about cold dunk and about cold dunk and about cold dunk and um Sana also um we'll be we're going to um Sana also um we'll be we're going to um Sana also um we'll be we're going to discuss your book in a moment discuss your book in a moment discuss your book in a moment um uh which is really an amazing uh um uh which is really an amazing uh um uh which is really an amazing uh contribution that everyone should pay contribution that everyone should pay contribution that everyone should pay attention to make sure you follow Susana attention to make sure you follow Susana attention to make sure you follow Susana she's putting out really useful she's putting out really useful she's putting out really useful protocols and information protocols and information protocols and information um and so you want to do that so how um and so you want to do that so how um and so you want to do that so how long are you in the cold how how long long are you in the cold how how long long are you in the cold how how long are you in the Heat and how many days a are you in the Heat and how many days a are you in the Heat and how many days a week are you doing that yeah so so about week are you doing that yeah so so about week are you doing that yeah so so about two times a week and if it gets really two times a week and if it gets really two times a week and if it gets really cold and icy then I think it's the best cold and icy then I think it's the best cold and icy then I think it's the best because then it really really tickles on because then it really really tickles on because then it really really tickles on your skin and if there is ice and snow your skin and if there is ice and snow your skin and if there is ice and snow that is definitely the best so if you that is definitely the best so if you that is definitely the best so if you don't if you've never tried that that is don't if you've never tried that that is don't if you've never tried that that is definitely you have something you should definitely you have something you should definitely you have something you should put on your bucket list because that is put on your bucket list because that is put on your bucket list because that is definitely amazing if you can sit in ice definitely amazing if you can sit in ice definitely amazing if you can sit in ice water and I would say it depends on water and I would say it depends on water and I would say it depends on um how much I have trained sitting in um how much I have trained sitting in um how much I have trained sitting in the water but I would say the first step the water but I would say the first step the water but I would say the first step is the short dip and then I go to the
43:00is the short dip and then I go to the is the short dip and then I go to the sonar and the next step can be a little sonar and the next step can be a little sonar and the next step can be a little bit longer sometimes I swim just a bit longer sometimes I swim just a bit longer sometimes I swim just a little bit but it's only a few minutes little bit but it's only a few minutes little bit but it's only a few minutes and and then by the end of the season I and and then by the end of the season I and and then by the end of the season I can maybe sit for three minutes four can maybe sit for three minutes four can maybe sit for three minutes four minutes but I never sit longer because minutes but I never sit longer because minutes but I never sit longer because there's no reason to I I think it's nice there's no reason to I I think it's nice there's no reason to I I think it's nice to to sit there and and feel how the to to sit there and and feel how the to to sit there and and feel how the code is actually surrounding me but I code is actually surrounding me but I code is actually surrounding me but I see no reason to sit there and wait see no reason to sit there and wait see no reason to sit there and wait until I I get the this year or something until I I get the this year or something until I I get the this year or something I have heard people do and that is I have heard people do and that is I have heard people do and that is because you you have exposed yourself because you you have exposed yourself because you you have exposed yourself too much and you got the hypothermic and too much and you got the hypothermic and too much and you got the hypothermic and that is really dangerous and you also that is really dangerous and you also that is really dangerous and you also have to think about uh the after drop so have to think about uh the after drop so have to think about uh the after drop so when you get up from the water you would when you get up from the water you would when you get up from the water you would have to always think that you would get have to always think that you would get have to always think that you would get even colder when you get up again even colder when you get up again even colder when you get up again because because because um or your Your Vessel was opened up and um or your Your Vessel was opened up and um or your Your Vessel was opened up and that will decrease your temperature your that will decrease your temperature your that will decrease your temperature your cold temperature in your body again so cold temperature in your body again so cold temperature in your body again so the coldest you are is not when you sit the coldest you are is not when you sit the coldest you are is not when you sit in the water many people think that but
44:00in the water many people think that but in the water many people think that but when you get up and you're when you get up and you're when you get up and you're um or your your your blood vessels um or your your your blood vessels um or your your your blood vessels dilated again so it it will actually dilated again so it it will actually dilated again so it it will actually decrease your temperature even more so decrease your temperature even more so decrease your temperature even more so you should always feel how much you have you should always feel how much you have you should always feel how much you have adapted to the cold how long can you sit adapted to the cold how long can you sit adapted to the cold how long can you sit so I can't give you an exact number so I can't give you an exact number so I can't give you an exact number Andrew how many minutes am I sitting in Andrew how many minutes am I sitting in Andrew how many minutes am I sitting in the water it really depends on how what the water it really depends on how what the water it really depends on how what the temperature is and the wind the the temperature is and the wind the the temperature is and the wind the chill factor is also very very important chill factor is also very very important chill factor is also very very important so yeah many things so yeah many things so yeah many things and you're doing so and this is really and you're doing so and this is really and you're doing so and this is really um uh really important a couple people um uh really important a couple people um uh really important a couple people have asked why I'm red I actually have have asked why I'm red I actually have have asked why I'm red I actually have an infrared light going in the corner an infrared light going in the corner an infrared light going in the corner um I I use infrared for another reason um I I use infrared for another reason um I I use infrared for another reason so so um no I'm not uh I'm I'm I'm not ready um no I'm not uh I'm I'm I'm not ready um no I'm not uh I'm I'm I'm not ready to blow a gasket here or anything to blow a gasket here or anything to blow a gasket here or anything um so the um so the the so this is 11 um so the um so the the so this is 11 um so the um so the the so this is 11 minutes per week of cold exposure minutes per week of cold exposure minutes per week of cold exposure actually I think the way to revise this
45:00actually I think the way to revise this actually I think the way to revise this based on what I've learned from you based on what I've learned from you based on what I've learned from you today is 11 minutes per week today is 11 minutes per week today is 11 minutes per week divided across two or three sessions of divided across two or three sessions of divided across two or three sessions of uncomfortably cold exposure uncomfortably cold exposure uncomfortably cold exposure okay uncomfortably cold but safe okay uncomfortably cold but safe okay uncomfortably cold but safe exposure so 11 minutes per week of exposure so 11 minutes per week of exposure so 11 minutes per week of uncomfortably cold but safe cold uncomfortably cold but safe cold uncomfortably cold but safe cold exposure by any mechanism that is exposure by any mechanism that is exposure by any mechanism that is practical for you the ideal one would be practical for you the ideal one would be practical for you the ideal one would be cold water submersion yeah cold water submersion yeah cold water submersion yeah to the neck but if you can't do that to the neck but if you can't do that to the neck but if you can't do that cold showers but if you can't do that cold showers but if you can't do that cold showers but if you can't do that get outside if it's cold in that get outside if it's cold in that get outside if it's cold in that environment and if you can't do that environment and if you can't do that environment and if you can't do that yeah I guess you could put ice packs in yeah I guess you could put ice packs in yeah I guess you could put ice packs in and around your body if that's you know and around your body if that's you know and around your body if that's you know if you're that motivated the then it's if you're that motivated the then it's if you're that motivated the then it's basically 57 minutes per week basically 57 minutes per week basically 57 minutes per week of sauna exposure divided across of heat of sauna exposure divided across of heat of sauna exposure divided across of heat exposure divided across two or three exposure divided across two or three exposure divided across two or three sessions yeah sessions yeah sessions yeah to get the maximum you could do those to get the maximum you could do those to get the maximum you could do those the cold and the heat together but to the cold and the heat together but to the cold and the heat together but to get the maximum Metabolic Effect yeah
46:00get the maximum Metabolic Effect yeah get the maximum Metabolic Effect yeah and on the cold and on the cold and on the cold and then I would say that the um oh and and then I would say that the um oh and and then I would say that the um oh and an important feature before I forget is an important feature before I forget is an important feature before I forget is that just because it's 11 minutes that just because it's 11 minutes that just because it's 11 minutes and 57 minutes does not mean that doing and 57 minutes does not mean that doing and 57 minutes does not mean that doing 20 minutes is bad right this is one 20 minutes is bad right this is one 20 minutes is bad right this is one thing that I think non-scientists aren't thing that I think non-scientists aren't thing that I think non-scientists aren't familiar with thinking about just familiar with thinking about just familiar with thinking about just because we say a is good does not mean because we say a is good does not mean because we say a is good does not mean that b is bad and this is a major issue that b is bad and this is a major issue that b is bad and this is a major issue with online health information that's with online health information that's with online health information that's really problematic people will say really problematic people will say really problematic people will say um like if I say walnuts are really good um like if I say walnuts are really good um like if I say walnuts are really good for you because they contain this for you because they contain this for you because they contain this essential fatty acid am I saying that essential fatty acid am I saying that essential fatty acid am I saying that hazelnuts are bad no no but but people hazelnuts are bad no no but but people hazelnuts are bad no no but but people somehow interpret a protocol as if it's somehow interpret a protocol as if it's somehow interpret a protocol as if it's 11 minutes that if they do 12 that it's 11 minutes that if they do 12 that it's 11 minutes that if they do 12 that it's bad that's not the case bad that's not the case bad that's not the case but of course but of course but of course everyone has a limited amount of time everyone has a limited amount of time everyone has a limited amount of time yeah colder means that you can probably yeah colder means that you can probably yeah colder means that you can probably get away with less time hotter means you get away with less time hotter means you get away with less time hotter means you can get away with less time and so on can get away with less time and so on can get away with less time and so on and so on so yes I think um I just
47:00and so on so yes I think um I just and so on so yes I think um I just wanted to figure out a protocol which wanted to figure out a protocol which wanted to figure out a protocol which where you can you don't have to go where you can you don't have to go where you can you don't have to go extreme not too long and how how little extreme not too long and how how little extreme not too long and how how little can we actually get away with so it was can we actually get away with so it was can we actually get away with so it was also just a way of of studying this in also just a way of of studying this in also just a way of of studying this in in a safe way in a safe way in a safe way right yeah and then I did get a number right yeah and then I did get a number right yeah and then I did get a number of questions about the fact that your of questions about the fact that your of questions about the fact that your study was performed on winter swimming study was performed on winter swimming study was performed on winter swimming men men men um but given that you follow these um but given that you follow these um but given that you follow these protocols I don't think there's any protocols I don't think there's any protocols I don't think there's any reason why reason why reason why um the same benefits do not apply to to um the same benefits do not apply to to um the same benefits do not apply to to women right I mean that no there's no I women right I mean that no there's no I women right I mean that no there's no I wouldn't I wouldn't think too much about wouldn't I wouldn't think too much about wouldn't I wouldn't think too much about that I'm it I think the same results that I'm it I think the same results that I'm it I think the same results would apply to to women as well and if would apply to to women as well and if would apply to to women as well and if you think about the the you think about the the you think about the the Brown fat then Brown fat is probably Brown fat then Brown fat is probably Brown fat then Brown fat is probably women have as as far as a literature go women have as as far as a literature go women have as as far as a literature go women have a little bit more of brown women have a little bit more of brown women have a little bit more of brown fat than the men have fat than the men have fat than the men have um and that's probably because we we um and that's probably because we we um and that's probably because we we tend to to get colder easily than men do
48:00tend to to get colder easily than men do tend to to get colder easily than men do so we our thermal comfortable zone is so we our thermal comfortable zone is so we our thermal comfortable zone is actually at the 22 24 sorry 24 degrees actually at the 22 24 sorry 24 degrees actually at the 22 24 sorry 24 degrees Celsius and for men it's 22 degrees Celsius and for men it's 22 degrees Celsius and for men it's 22 degrees Celsius so women tend to to have a Celsius so women tend to to have a Celsius so women tend to to have a little bit more Brown fat than than the little bit more Brown fat than than the little bit more Brown fat than than the men do but men do but men do but um it doesn't it there's no reason to um it doesn't it there's no reason to um it doesn't it there's no reason to think that this code protocol should not think that this code protocol should not think that this code protocol should not apply to women the reason why we did the apply to women the reason why we did the apply to women the reason why we did the study only in men was because the women study only in men was because the women study only in men was because the women have a cyclist and then we wanted to have a cyclist and then we wanted to have a cyclist and then we wanted to study also what we call the the study also what we call the the study also what we call the the proteomics with the battle kinds which proteomics with the battle kinds which proteomics with the battle kinds which are proteins that are secreted from the are proteins that are secreted from the are proteins that are secreted from the brown fat so we have another outcome for brown fat so we have another outcome for brown fat so we have another outcome for the study as well say the blood cell the study as well say the blood cell the study as well say the blood cell of course we want to see if there was of course we want to see if there was of course we want to see if there was some kind of secretion from the brown some kind of secretion from the brown some kind of secretion from the brown fat which we could measure and see if fat which we could measure and see if fat which we could measure and see if that was different in the subjects in that was different in the subjects in that was different in the subjects in the when system was compared to controls the when system was compared to controls the when system was compared to controls and that would not be good if we had a
49:00and that would not be good if we had a and that would not be good if we had a women with Cycles going anywhere and so women with Cycles going anywhere and so women with Cycles going anywhere and so that was actually the main reason so that was actually the main reason so that was actually the main reason so but the next but the next but the next randomized sorry uh was actually closed randomized sorry uh was actually closed randomized sorry uh was actually closed in men and women so yeah in men and women so yeah in men and women so yeah wonderful and I as I understand that wonderful and I as I understand that wonderful and I as I understand that study is underway and hopefully will be study is underway and hopefully will be study is underway and hopefully will be published in the not too distant future published in the not too distant future published in the not too distant future um I I got a couple questions about what um I I got a couple questions about what um I I got a couple questions about what is the problem with or difference is the problem with or difference is the problem with or difference between infrared and regular sauna look between infrared and regular sauna look between infrared and regular sauna look the the whole purpose of getting in the the the whole purpose of getting in the the the whole purpose of getting in the sauna is to get your body temperature up sauna is to get your body temperature up sauna is to get your body temperature up okay so I there's nothing wrong with okay so I there's nothing wrong with okay so I there's nothing wrong with infrared but typically infrared saunas infrared but typically infrared saunas infrared but typically infrared saunas don't go as hot as uh finished sauna or don't go as hot as uh finished sauna or don't go as hot as uh finished sauna or dry sauna like for instance I I like to dry sauna like for instance I I like to dry sauna like for instance I I like to get into a sauna that's somewhere get into a sauna that's somewhere get into a sauna that's somewhere between 210 and 215 which is a between 210 and 215 which is a between 210 and 215 which is a Fahrenheit which is very hot but I'm Fahrenheit which is very hot but I'm Fahrenheit which is very hot but I'm heat acclimated I do it um I do it three heat acclimated I do it um I do it three heat acclimated I do it um I do it three four times a week if I can four times a week if I can four times a week if I can um so I go beyond that 57 minutes but um so I go beyond that 57 minutes but um so I go beyond that 57 minutes but I've been doing it for a while there's
50:00I've been doing it for a while there's I've been doing it for a while there's nothing wrong with infrared sauna nothing wrong with infrared sauna nothing wrong with infrared sauna um the info the effects of the infrared um the info the effects of the infrared um the info the effects of the infrared however are still not very established however are still not very established however are still not very established in the scientific literature infrared in the scientific literature infrared in the scientific literature infrared exposure to the eyes which I'm actually exposure to the eyes which I'm actually exposure to the eyes which I'm actually getting peripherally which is why I'm um getting peripherally which is why I'm um getting peripherally which is why I'm um glowing red glowing red glowing red um um is um there's a interesting data out um is um there's a interesting data out of University of College London about of University of College London about of University of College London about effects on the photoreceptors in the effects on the photoreceptors in the effects on the photoreceptors in the eyes and so that's that's a different eyes and so that's that's a different eyes and so that's that's a different story altogether but story altogether but story altogether but um I think it's about uh heating up it's um I think it's about uh heating up it's um I think it's about uh heating up it's about heating up so about heating up so about heating up so um now a couple other questions first of um now a couple other questions first of um now a couple other questions first of all all all um I I want to make sure I ask you about um I I want to make sure I ask you about um I I want to make sure I ask you about your book what is the title of your book your book what is the title of your book your book what is the title of your book um in English and in Danish um in English and in Danish um in English and in Danish um and what is and where can people um and what is and where can people um and what is and where can people access it and what sorts of information access it and what sorts of information access it and what sorts of information is in it tell us tell us about your book is in it tell us tell us about your book is in it tell us tell us about your book yeah so uh yeah so uh yeah so uh um the the English book is called the um the the English book is called the um the the English book is called the winter swimming winter swimming winter swimming um and the Nordic way towards a healthy
51:00um and the Nordic way towards a healthy um and the Nordic way towards a healthy and happier life and happier life and happier life um it's a book actually about my also um it's a book actually about my also um it's a book actually about my also about my research and how I started this about my research and how I started this about my research and how I started this the whole journey and it's also the whole journey and it's also the whole journey and it's also you can say a walk through the you can say a walk through the you can say a walk through the literature but not written in a way literature but not written in a way literature but not written in a way which is really heavy or anything it's which is really heavy or anything it's which is really heavy or anything it's more in a Common Language so everybody more in a Common Language so everybody more in a Common Language so everybody can read it I record so so in Danish can read it I record so so in Danish can read it I record so so in Danish it's called The Hobby Haven and it's it's called The Hobby Haven and it's it's called The Hobby Haven and it's translated to jump in the ocean translated to jump in the ocean translated to jump in the ocean um and it's it's just a a book telling um and it's it's just a a book telling um and it's it's just a a book telling you what how do you go into the water you what how do you go into the water you what how do you go into the water what should you think about what should what should you think about what should what should you think about what should you wear what should you bring what to you wear what should you bring what to you wear what should you bring what to be careful about and what kind of be careful about and what kind of be careful about and what kind of benefits does the the literature show benefits does the the literature show benefits does the the literature show and what is the code shark and why do and what is the code shark and why do and what is the code shark and why do you need to see the code shark so be in you need to see the code shark so be in you need to see the code shark so be in a a border which you think is a a border which you think is a a border which you think is uncomfortable but still being safe so uncomfortable but still being safe so uncomfortable but still being safe so it's kind of a book telling you how it's
52:00it's kind of a book telling you how it's it's kind of a book telling you how it's going to swim if you want to stay safe going to swim if you want to stay safe going to swim if you want to stay safe but also get the benefits that we just but also get the benefits that we just but also get the benefits that we just talked about so it's based on what I talked about so it's based on what I talked about so it's based on what I have learned during the last six yeah have learned during the last six yeah have learned during the last six yeah years of my studies and so it's a kind years of my studies and so it's a kind years of my studies and so it's a kind of a wrap up of that of a wrap up of that of a wrap up of that so where can people find the book published I think it's next year so you published I think it's next year so you can go and pre-order that actually if can go and pre-order that actually if can go and pre-order that actually if you like if you like so definitely you like if you like so definitely you like if you like so definitely follow Dr Susanna soberg follow Dr Susanna soberg follow Dr Susanna soberg um on Instagram I'll put it I'm in the um on Instagram I'll put it I'm in the um on Instagram I'll put it I'm in the recorded version of this I'll put um a recorded version of this I'll put um a recorded version of this I'll put um a link to her Instagram handle check out link to her Instagram handle check out link to her Instagram handle check out the link in her bio to her book I want the link in her bio to her book I want the link in her bio to her book I want to emphasize that to emphasize that to emphasize that um despite the already impressive um despite the already impressive um despite the already impressive accomplishment of writing a book on this accomplishment of writing a book on this accomplishment of writing a book on this important topic important topic important topic um for those of you that are joining in um for those of you that are joining in um for those of you that are joining in late late late um thank you Dr soberg is uh you know is um thank you Dr soberg is uh you know is um thank you Dr soberg is uh you know is the lead author on a really important the lead author on a really important the lead author on a really important paper I believe in um cell reports
53:00paper I believe in um cell reports paper I believe in um cell reports medicine medicine medicine um defining the metabolic improvements um defining the metabolic improvements um defining the metabolic improvements uh and other improvements in related to uh and other improvements in related to uh and other improvements in related to Brown fat metabolism in people that Brown fat metabolism in people that Brown fat metabolism in people that expose themselves to what is essentially expose themselves to what is essentially expose themselves to what is essentially the equivalent of 11 minutes per week the equivalent of 11 minutes per week the equivalent of 11 minutes per week divided across two or three sessions divided across two or three sessions divided across two or three sessions plus 57 minutes per week divided across plus 57 minutes per week divided across plus 57 minutes per week divided across two or three sessions of cold and sauna two or three sessions of cold and sauna two or three sessions of cold and sauna or I should say cold and heat or I should say cold and heat or I should say cold and heat respectively respectively respectively um listen you've answered a tremendous um listen you've answered a tremendous um listen you've answered a tremendous number of questions today I there's just number of questions today I there's just number of questions today I there's just a couple more um and then we can let you a couple more um and then we can let you a couple more um and then we can let you you be about your evening because there you be about your evening because there you be about your evening because there it's 9 p.m yeah yeah almost but it's it's 9 p.m yeah yeah almost but it's it's 9 p.m yeah yeah almost but it's fine I'm having a good time oh well fine I'm having a good time oh well fine I'm having a good time oh well thank you likewise I I'm so I you know I thank you likewise I I'm so I you know I thank you likewise I I'm so I you know I I'm on the editorial board for sell I'm on the editorial board for sell I'm on the editorial board for sell reports not for sale reports medicine reports not for sale reports medicine reports not for sale reports medicine but you know it's I when I saw that but you know it's I when I saw that but you know it's I when I saw that paper I actually wrote to the editorial paper I actually wrote to the editorial paper I actually wrote to the editorial staff there and said this is a this is staff there and said this is a this is staff there and said this is a this is the kind of science that the world needs the kind of science that the world needs the kind of science that the world needs to know about the papers been downloaded to know about the papers been downloaded to know about the papers been downloaded many many times it's available many many times it's available many many times it's available um if you want to read the scientific um if you want to read the scientific um if you want to read the scientific paper it's available a free for free
54:00paper it's available a free for free paper it's available a free for free access to anyone at cell reports access to anyone at cell reports access to anyone at cell reports medicine medicine um so you can go there it's listed as um so you can go there it's listed as um so you can go there it's listed as one of the most popular download papers one of the most popular download papers one of the most popular download papers there there there um so important one person asked you um so important one person asked you um so important one person asked you know there are all these ancient know there are all these ancient know there are all these ancient practices of cold exposure and breathing practices of cold exposure and breathing practices of cold exposure and breathing you know they said is science just kind you know they said is science just kind you know they said is science just kind of taking over the stuff look the beauty of taking over the stuff look the beauty of taking over the stuff look the beauty of science is that you can take of science is that you can take of science is that you can take mechanism and start to arrive at even mechanism and start to arrive at even mechanism and start to arrive at even better or more precise protocols to better or more precise protocols to better or more precise protocols to remove some of the ambiguity and so I remove some of the ambiguity and so I remove some of the ambiguity and so I really really appreciate your work in in really really appreciate your work in in really really appreciate your work in in getting ready to close I just want to getting ready to close I just want to getting ready to close I just want to ask um ask um ask um a question about a question about a question about um are there any things that you um are there any things that you um are there any things that you observed in the study that or in the observed in the study that or in the observed in the study that or in the course of doing this research that you course of doing this research that you course of doing this research that you thought was particularly interesting thought was particularly interesting thought was particularly interesting that maybe didn't make it into the paper that maybe didn't make it into the paper that maybe didn't make it into the paper because as a researcher I know that because as a researcher I know that because as a researcher I know that there are some things often that that we there are some things often that that we there are some things often that that we see or observed that were interesting see or observed that were interesting see or observed that were interesting that maybe there's there isn't that maybe there's there isn't that maybe there's there isn't sufficient evidence for yet but that you sufficient evidence for yet but that you sufficient evidence for yet but that you might want to follow up on or that you might want to follow up on or that you might want to follow up on or that you think people might find interesting was
55:00think people might find interesting was think people might find interesting was there anything that was surprising was there anything that was surprising was there anything that was surprising was there anything that um kind of you know there anything that um kind of you know there anything that um kind of you know piqued your interest uh that you didn't piqued your interest uh that you didn't piqued your interest uh that you didn't expect yeah so a couple of things but I expect yeah so a couple of things but I expect yeah so a couple of things but I can just mention too so can just mention too so can just mention too so um actually in my study we did actually um actually in my study we did actually um actually in my study we did actually have a winter swimmer who didn't have have a winter swimmer who didn't have have a winter swimmer who didn't have any brown fat so we called this person a any brown fat so we called this person a any brown fat so we called this person a brown fat negative person so it was brown fat negative person so it was brown fat negative person so it was completely Brown fat knockout like in completely Brown fat knockout like in completely Brown fat knockout like in mice we can also knock out some sort mice we can also knock out some sort mice we can also knock out some sort some hormones or proteins or something some hormones or proteins or something some hormones or proteins or something like that but this guy he didn't have like that but this guy he didn't have like that but this guy he didn't have any brown fat and one thing I didn't any brown fat and one thing I didn't any brown fat and one thing I didn't know this when I was cooling him down in know this when I was cooling him down in know this when I was cooling him down in the basement potatoes it was at the PET the basement potatoes it was at the PET the basement potatoes it was at the PET CT scanner so I cooled them down and he CT scanner so I cooled them down and he CT scanner so I cooled them down and he was he didn't feel good and he also went was he didn't feel good and he also went was he didn't feel good and he also went to swim I was just wondering and he was to swim I was just wondering and he was to swim I was just wondering and he was one of the last ones he was like that's one of the last ones he was like that's one of the last ones he was like that's weird you're not acting the same way as weird you're not acting the same way as weird you're not acting the same way as the others and then after we Pet city the others and then after we Pet city the others and then after we Pet city scan him he had nothing Brown no Brown scan him he had nothing Brown no Brown scan him he had nothing Brown no Brown fat at all and it did really explain
56:00fat at all and it did really explain fat at all and it did really explain uh how he his behavior during the study uh how he his behavior during the study uh how he his behavior during the study but also it explains some of the blood but also it explains some of the blood but also it explains some of the blood samples and he was he was just an samples and he was he was just an samples and he was he was just an outlier in many things so that was kind outlier in many things so that was kind outlier in many things so that was kind of interesting so I hope there will be a of interesting so I hope there will be a of interesting so I hope there will be a study where people can gather people study where people can gather people study where people can gather people with a study group with with only people with a study group with with only people with a study group with with only people with with no Brown fat but it takes a with with no Brown fat but it takes a with with no Brown fat but it takes a lot of screening to get all the a group lot of screening to get all the a group lot of screening to get all the a group of bad negative subjects so it did tell of bad negative subjects so it did tell of bad negative subjects so it did tell us that that brown fat might be very us that that brown fat might be very us that that brown fat might be very significant actually for our metabolism significant actually for our metabolism significant actually for our metabolism and for our thermody thermogenesis in and for our thermody thermogenesis in and for our thermody thermogenesis in general and what an amazing in um general and what an amazing in um general and what an amazing in um control exp naturally occurring control control exp naturally occurring control control exp naturally occurring control experiment experiment experiment um because uh you know every once in a um because uh you know every once in a um because uh you know every once in a while when you do these studies you get while when you do these studies you get while when you do these studies you get somebody that's an outlier but here it's somebody that's an outlier but here it's somebody that's an outlier but here it's a very informative outlier a very informative outlier a very informative outlier um very very interesting um very very interesting um very very interesting um my understanding is that repeated um my understanding is that repeated um my understanding is that repeated cold exposure can increase the total cold exposure can increase the total cold exposure can increase the total amount of brown fat that we have is that
57:00amount of brown fat that we have is that amount of brown fat that we have is that true true true um so in my study we didn't see that the um so in my study we didn't see that the um so in my study we didn't see that the the winter swimmers had more Brown fat the winter swimmers had more Brown fat the winter swimmers had more Brown fat but we did see that the outcome of but we did see that the outcome of but we did see that the outcome of activated Brown fat is actually heat so activated Brown fat is actually heat so activated Brown fat is actually heat so it's it's heating up the body we did see it's it's heating up the body we did see it's it's heating up the body we did see the winter swim it had an increase a the winter swim it had an increase a the winter swim it had an increase a higher temperature increase when we higher temperature increase when we higher temperature increase when we activated it with cold so it might be activated it with cold so it might be activated it with cold so it might be that the brown fat cells were more that the brown fat cells were more that the brown fat cells were more mature in some way uh because they the mature in some way uh because they the mature in some way uh because they the the cells might get more efficient with the cells might get more efficient with the cells might get more efficient with the continuously um activating it with the continuously um activating it with the continuously um activating it with code so that was uh what we we saw in code so that was uh what we we saw in code so that was uh what we we saw in the winter streams it might not always the winter streams it might not always the winter streams it might not always be that we get more Brown fat but maybe be that we get more Brown fat but maybe be that we get more Brown fat but maybe more efficient Brown fat so to to more efficient Brown fat so to to more efficient Brown fat so to to regulate our our temperature in the body regulate our our temperature in the body regulate our our temperature in the body wonderful well um I hope that uh this wonderful well um I hope that uh this wonderful well um I hope that uh this will be the first of several will be the first of several will be the first of several conversations that we can have conversations that we can have conversations that we can have um uh publicly and I of course anytime um uh publicly and I of course anytime um uh publicly and I of course anytime you're headed to the states I'd like to you're headed to the states I'd like to you're headed to the states I'd like to open an invitation please come visit the
58:00open an invitation please come visit the open an invitation please come visit the lab Stanford now we mainly work on lab Stanford now we mainly work on lab Stanford now we mainly work on stress and sleep and Human Performance stress and sleep and Human Performance stress and sleep and Human Performance but Stanford now has a new uh Human but Stanford now has a new uh Human but Stanford now has a new uh Human Performance uh initiative of the wusai Performance uh initiative of the wusai Performance uh initiative of the wusai human performance initiative we human performance initiative we human performance initiative we definitely need to get have you come definitely need to get have you come definitely need to get have you come give a talk give a talk give a talk um um yeah we absolutely should and and we can yeah we absolutely should and and we can yeah we absolutely should and and we can talk offline about that um opening the talk offline about that um opening the talk offline about that um opening the invitation to you I thank you so much invitation to you I thank you so much invitation to you I thank you so much for sharing your knowledge also for for sharing your knowledge also for for sharing your knowledge also for being a practitioner you know you're a being a practitioner you know you're a being a practitioner you know you're a scientist who actually does the things scientist who actually does the things scientist who actually does the things that she studies and um it's really that she studies and um it's really that she studies and um it's really really terrific really terrific really terrific um um for those of you um that are still here for those of you um that are still here for those of you um that are still here thank you for your time and attention thank you for your time and attention thank you for your time and attention um I will definitely post this recording um I will definitely post this recording um I will definitely post this recording um with links to please follow Susanna um with links to please follow Susanna um with links to please follow Susanna soberg follow the links in her bio to soberg follow the links in her bio to soberg follow the links in her bio to her book when the book comes out next her book when the book comes out next her book when the book comes out next year in English I'll definitely do a year in English I'll definitely do a year in English I'll definitely do a post about it dedicated to that it's post about it dedicated to that it's post about it dedicated to that it's wonderful and I um my Danish is not good wonderful and I um my Danish is not good wonderful and I um my Danish is not good enough to read it in Danish but I know enough to read it in Danish but I know enough to read it in Danish but I know enough I know enough about the content
59:00enough I know enough about the content enough I know enough about the content to know that it's wonderful and and to to know that it's wonderful and and to to know that it's wonderful and and to everyone else who who joined in and everyone else who who joined in and everyone else who who joined in and thank you so much for uh for doing this thank you so much for uh for doing this thank you so much for uh for doing this I you know it's not often that I get the I you know it's not often that I get the I you know it's not often that I get the opportunity to talk to the first author opportunity to talk to the first author opportunity to talk to the first author of a really impactful paper on Instagram of a really impactful paper on Instagram of a really impactful paper on Instagram with protocols who actually participates with protocols who actually participates with protocols who actually participates in the protocols in the protocols in the protocols um Susanna Dr Solberg thank you ever so um Susanna Dr Solberg thank you ever so um Susanna Dr Solberg thank you ever so much for your time and for the much for your time and for the much for your time and for the incredible work that you're doing we all incredible work that you're doing we all incredible work that you're doing we all I know I speak on behalf of many many I know I speak on behalf of many many I know I speak on behalf of many many people thank you so so much for your people thank you so so much for your people thank you so so much for your work and your time you're welcome and work and your time you're welcome and work and your time you're welcome and thank you for inviting me thank you for inviting me thank you for inviting me all right very well all right everyone all right very well all right everyone all right very well all right everyone well have a wonderful rest of week well have a wonderful rest of week well have a wonderful rest of week thanks for those of you that join from thanks for those of you that join from thanks for those of you that join from around the world or maybe even stayed up around the world or maybe even stayed up around the world or maybe even stayed up a little late in order to join thank you a little late in order to join thank you a little late in order to join thank you for your questions for your questions for your questions get out there and try the protocols be get out there and try the protocols be get out there and try the protocols be safe but do them and um and we now have safe but do them and um and we now have safe but do them and um and we now have the Solberg uh principle which is to the Solberg uh principle which is to the Solberg uh principle which is to increase your metabolism end on cold so increase your metabolism end on cold so increase your metabolism end on cold so I'm going to be repeating that over and I'm going to be repeating that over and I'm going to be repeating that over and over until
1:00over until over until um until my final days all right all um until my final days all right all um until my final days all right all right everyone bye for now thank you right everyone bye for now thank you right everyone bye for now thank you very much everyone bye-bye thank you very much everyone bye-bye thank you very much everyone bye-bye thank you thank you