Andrew Huberman Reveals the Truth About Dopamine Cold Showers
00:00I'll tear up if I talk about it because I'll tear up if I talk about it because things were going well in my life and things were going well in my life and things were going well in my life and then one day just whack then one day just whack then one day just whack everything came crashing down. everything came crashing down. everything came crashing down. And um And um And um and I've learned that friendship is and I've learned that friendship is and I've learned that friendship is super powerful. I had people descending super powerful. I had people descending super powerful. I had people descending on my home to be with me. You know, one on my home to be with me. You know, one on my home to be with me. You know, one day I just like look up and Lex is in day I just like look up and Lex is in day I just like look up and Lex is in the room and they sat with me, picked me the room and they sat with me, picked me the room and they sat with me, picked me up and they reminded me who I am. And um up and they reminded me who I am. And um up and they reminded me who I am. And um you know I I have just such immense you know I I have just such immense you know I I have just such immense gratitude for that. >> Dr. Andrew Huberman is a worldrenowned >> Dr. Andrew Huberman is a worldrenowned neuroscientist, Stanford professor and neuroscientist, Stanford professor and neuroscientist, Stanford professor and podcaster. podcaster. podcaster. >> Revolutionizing how we [music] >> Revolutionizing how we [music] >> Revolutionizing how we [music] understand the brain understand the brain understand the brain >> and how we can adopt change, break bad >> and how we can adopt change, break bad >> and how we can adopt change, break bad habits, and achieve peak performance. habits, and achieve peak performance. habits, and achieve peak performance. Growing up, I was scared, depressed, and Growing up, I was scared, depressed, and Growing up, I was scared, depressed, and confused. My parents split up. I was confused. My parents split up. I was confused. My parents split up. I was getting in multiple fights. found myself getting in multiple fights. found myself getting in multiple fights. found myself locked up in this residential treatment locked up in this residential treatment locked up in this residential treatment program and I realized that I need to program and I realized that I need to program and I realized that I need to take control of my life.
01:00take control of my life. take control of my life. >> I'm so intrigued by that because so many >> I'm so intrigued by that because so many >> I'm so intrigued by that because so many people feel stuck in their lives. So, people feel stuck in their lives. So, people feel stuck in their lives. So, how does someone even make those how does someone even make those how does someone even make those life-changing decisions? life-changing decisions? life-changing decisions? >> Well, there are so many zerocost tools >> Well, there are so many zerocost tools >> Well, there are so many zerocost tools that can change your brain. We can go that can change your brain. We can go that can change your brain. We can go through all of them. So, I want to talk through all of them. So, I want to talk through all of them. So, I want to talk about dopamine in this graph. The about dopamine in this graph. The about dopamine in this graph. The dopamine is kind of like a wave pool in dopamine is kind of like a wave pool in dopamine is kind of like a wave pool in every domain of life. Whether or not every domain of life. Whether or not every domain of life. Whether or not it's food, exercise, for some people it's food, exercise, for some people it's food, exercise, for some people it's work or sex. If you push things to it's work or sex. If you push things to it's work or sex. If you push things to the max, you're going to feel depleted the max, you're going to feel depleted the max, you're going to feel depleted and underst stimulated afterwards. And and underst stimulated afterwards. And and underst stimulated afterwards. And you need so much more energy to get the you need so much more energy to get the you need so much more energy to get the same output. And when you're in that same output. And when you're in that same output. And when you're in that dopamine depleted state, typically what dopamine depleted state, typically what dopamine depleted state, typically what people do is they try and access things people do is they try and access things people do is they try and access things that are going to reactivate the that are going to reactivate the that are going to reactivate the dopamine circuitry and all it does is dopamine circuitry and all it does is dopamine circuitry and all it does is drive them further and further into that drive them further and further into that drive them further and further into that trauma. trauma. trauma. >> So, how do you fix that? So, it's hard >> So, how do you fix that? So, it's hard >> So, how do you fix that? So, it's hard to exit, but start with >> this is a sentence I never thought I'd >> this is a sentence I never thought I'd say in my life. Um, we've just hit 7 say in my life. Um, we've just hit 7 say in my life. Um, we've just hit 7 million subscribers on YouTube, and I million subscribers on YouTube, and I million subscribers on YouTube, and I want to say a huge thank you to all of want to say a huge thank you to all of want to say a huge thank you to all of you that show up here every Monday and you that show up here every Monday and you that show up here every Monday and Thursday to watch our conversations. Um,
02:00Thursday to watch our conversations. Um, Thursday to watch our conversations. Um, from the bottom of my heart, but also on from the bottom of my heart, but also on from the bottom of my heart, but also on behalf of my team who you don't always behalf of my team who you don't always behalf of my team who you don't always get to meet. There's almost 50 people get to meet. There's almost 50 people get to meet. There's almost 50 people now behind the D of a CEO that work to now behind the D of a CEO that work to now behind the D of a CEO that work to put this together. So, from all of us, put this together. So, from all of us, put this together. So, from all of us, thank you so much. Um, we did a raffle thank you so much. Um, we did a raffle thank you so much. Um, we did a raffle last month and we gave away prizes for last month and we gave away prizes for last month and we gave away prizes for people that subscribed to the show up people that subscribed to the show up people that subscribed to the show up until 7 million subscribers. And you until 7 million subscribers. And you until 7 million subscribers. And you guys love that raffle so much that we're guys love that raffle so much that we're guys love that raffle so much that we're going to continue it. So, every single going to continue it. So, every single going to continue it. So, every single month we're giving away money can't buy month we're giving away money can't buy month we're giving away money can't buy prizes, including meetings with me, prizes, including meetings with me, prizes, including meetings with me, invites to our events, and a,000 gift invites to our events, and a,000 gift invites to our events, and a,000 gift vouchers to anyone that subscribes to vouchers to anyone that subscribes to vouchers to anyone that subscribes to the DEO. There's now more than 7 million the DEO. There's now more than 7 million the DEO. There's now more than 7 million of you. So, if you make the decision to of you. So, if you make the decision to of you. So, if you make the decision to subscribe today, you can be one of those subscribe today, you can be one of those subscribe today, you can be one of those lucky people. Thank you from the bottom lucky people. Thank you from the bottom lucky people. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Let's get to the of my heart. Let's get to the of my heart. Let's get to the conversation. [music] Andrew, at the very heart of what you Andrew, at the very heart of what you do, at the very very heart, if I if I do, at the very very heart, if I if I do, at the very very heart, if I if I looked at all that you've produced and I looked at all that you've produced and I looked at all that you've produced and I had to encapsulate it into just one or had to encapsulate it into just one or had to encapsulate it into just one or two sentences that encapsulates your two sentences that encapsulates your two sentences that encapsulates your mission statement, what would that be? mission statement, what would that be? mission statement, what would that be? >> I want to share the beauty and utility >> I want to share the beauty and utility >> I want to share the beauty and utility of biology. I want people to understand
03:00of biology. I want people to understand of biology. I want people to understand how incredible the human body and brain how incredible the human body and brain how incredible the human body and brain are and how even a small understanding are and how even a small understanding are and how even a small understanding of the underlying mechanisms about how of the underlying mechanisms about how of the underlying mechanisms about how we interact with light or temperature, we interact with light or temperature, we interact with light or temperature, exercise, exercise, exercise, thoughts, emotions, etc. how that can thoughts, emotions, etc. how that can thoughts, emotions, etc. how that can impact our health in really powerful impact our health in really powerful impact our health in really powerful ways. ways. ways. >> You have become a cultural phenomenon >> You have become a cultural phenomenon >> You have become a cultural phenomenon because of the information that you've because of the information that you've because of the information that you've shared. shared. shared. In your view, why and how has that In your view, why and how has that In your view, why and how has that happened? I I guess maybe most happened? I I guess maybe most happened? I I guess maybe most importantly, why has that happened? What importantly, why has that happened? What importantly, why has that happened? What is it that you've kind of catered to is it that you've kind of catered to is it that you've kind of catered to that was absent in people's that was absent in people's that was absent in people's understanding of themselves? understanding of themselves? understanding of themselves? >> Well, I think people are intensely >> Well, I think people are intensely >> Well, I think people are intensely curious about themselves, meaning our curious about themselves, meaning our curious about themselves, meaning our species, why we feel the way we feel, species, why we feel the way we feel, species, why we feel the way we feel, why other people feel and act the way why other people feel and act the way why other people feel and act the way they do. And I think most everybody, I they do. And I think most everybody, I they do. And I think most everybody, I like to think, is deeply interested in like to think, is deeply interested in like to think, is deeply interested in how to be the best version of how to be the best version of how to be the best version of themselves. And I think what I've done themselves. And I think what I've done themselves. And I think what I've done is I've provided a lens into all of that
04:00is I've provided a lens into all of that is I've provided a lens into all of that through biology, through biology, through biology, through neuroscience in particular, through neuroscience in particular, through neuroscience in particular, but also I'm a practitioner. So since I but also I'm a practitioner. So since I but also I'm a practitioner. So since I was pretty young, I've been actively was pretty young, I've been actively was pretty young, I've been actively involved in sports and psychology and involved in sports and psychology and involved in sports and psychology and interested in what one can do in some interested in what one can do in some interested in what one can do in some cases take, things to avoid in order to cases take, things to avoid in order to cases take, things to avoid in order to be the best version of oneself. And so be the best version of oneself. And so be the best version of oneself. And so um I'm an academic right I have a um I'm an academic right I have a um I'm an academic right I have a laboratory and I'm [clears throat] a laboratory and I'm [clears throat] a laboratory and I'm [clears throat] a tenure faculty member at Stanford tenure faculty member at Stanford tenure faculty member at Stanford although I should mention that I've although I should mention that I've although I should mention that I've shrunk my laboratory considerably in the shrunk my laboratory considerably in the shrunk my laboratory considerably in the last year or so but I've done last year or so but I've done last year or so but I've done experiments on animal models on humans experiments on animal models on humans experiments on animal models on humans and human clinical trials. So I have the and human clinical trials. So I have the and human clinical trials. So I have the understanding and expertise of a of a understanding and expertise of a of a understanding and expertise of a of a research scientist and at the same time research scientist and at the same time research scientist and at the same time I think very deeply about how to I think very deeply about how to I think very deeply about how to translate the information in these translate the information in these translate the information in these peer-reviewed papers. How to translate peer-reviewed papers. How to translate peer-reviewed papers. How to translate the information in the fields of science the information in the fields of science the information in the fields of science and medicine into actionable what we and medicine into actionable what we and medicine into actionable what we call protocols. And I do my best to um
05:00call protocols. And I do my best to um call protocols. And I do my best to um distill things down into uh you know distill things down into uh you know distill things down into uh you know actionable things. Um but I'm not a big actionable things. Um but I'm not a big actionable things. Um but I'm not a big believer in dumbing things down. I believer in dumbing things down. I believer in dumbing things down. I decided to go the opposite way. Rather decided to go the opposite way. Rather decided to go the opposite way. Rather than give little snippets, um, 90-cond than give little snippets, um, 90-cond than give little snippets, um, 90-cond videos, we include those, but rather I videos, we include those, but rather I videos, we include those, but rather I decided to go for full one to three decided to go for full one to three decided to go for full one to three hour, maybe even four hour lectures on a hour, maybe even four hour lectures on a hour, maybe even four hour lectures on a topic because I believe, and I'm not the topic because I believe, and I'm not the topic because I believe, and I'm not the first to say it, that people have um first to say it, that people have um first to say it, that people have um near infinite ability to learn if they near infinite ability to learn if they near infinite ability to learn if they are told things in a way that's clear. are told things in a way that's clear. are told things in a way that's clear. So, I believe that people want to So, I believe that people want to So, I believe that people want to understand, they can understand, and it understand, they can understand, and it understand, they can understand, and it doesn't require decorating things in a doesn't require decorating things in a doesn't require decorating things in a lot of complicated language. sometimes lot of complicated language. sometimes lot of complicated language. sometimes we need to include some complicated we need to include some complicated we need to include some complicated language just because that's the way language just because that's the way language just because that's the way science and medicine are and that people science and medicine are and that people science and medicine are and that people are willing to learn that and carry that are willing to learn that and carry that are willing to learn that and carry that along and once they understand how they along and once they understand how they along and once they understand how they work a little bit better you arm them work a little bit better you arm them work a little bit better you arm them with a little bit of knowledge then with a little bit of knowledge then with a little bit of knowledge then really they're just off to the races and really they're just off to the races and really they're just off to the races and the the rest takes care of itself. the the rest takes care of itself. the the rest takes care of itself. >> I may a couple of times today just ask >> I may a couple of times today just ask >> I may a couple of times today just ask you to explain something to me in more you to explain something to me in more you to explain something to me in more simpler terms because I don't have any
06:00simpler terms because I don't have any simpler terms because I don't have any fundamental understanding of of science. fundamental understanding of of science. fundamental understanding of of science. So, um, much of my objective is just to So, um, much of my objective is just to So, um, much of my objective is just to if if is just to be completely honest if if if is just to be completely honest if if if is just to be completely honest if I don't understand something because I'm I don't understand something because I'm I don't understand something because I'm sure there's a lot of people listening sure there's a lot of people listening sure there's a lot of people listening that also probably don't understand that also probably don't understand that also probably don't understand something. One of the things that was something. One of the things that was something. One of the things that was most surprising to me about you was your most surprising to me about you was your most surprising to me about you was your background. And I think the interesting background. And I think the interesting background. And I think the interesting thing about your [clears throat] thing about your [clears throat] thing about your [clears throat] background and where you came from and background and where you came from and background and where you came from and the the struggles you faced and the the struggles you faced and the the struggles you faced and in contrast to the man that sits in in contrast to the man that sits in in contrast to the man that sits in front of me today is it I think it front of me today is it I think it front of me today is it I think it speaks to one of the fundamental speaks to one of the fundamental speaks to one of the fundamental points of curiosity that I have about points of curiosity that I have about points of curiosity that I have about your work which is it's all well and your work which is it's all well and your work which is it's all well and good knowing protocols but there's good knowing protocols but there's good knowing protocols but there's something else required to be able to something else required to be able to something else required to be able to pursue them. Now, people say that this pursue them. Now, people say that this pursue them. Now, people say that this is discipline or motivation or whatever is discipline or motivation or whatever is discipline or motivation or whatever it might be, but when I looked at your it might be, but when I looked at your it might be, but when I looked at your background and where you've come from, background and where you've come from, background and where you've come from, it wasn't a straight line. There's it wasn't a straight line. There's it wasn't a straight line. There's there's an element of transformation there's an element of transformation there's an element of transformation that's gone on there. There's there's that's gone on there. There's there's that's gone on there. There's there's almost almost almost the early Andrew Huberman, who I never the early Andrew Huberman, who I never the early Andrew Huberman, who I never would have guessed would have been the
07:00would have guessed would have been the would have guessed would have been the man that is is almost unrecognizable man that is is almost unrecognizable man that is is almost unrecognizable from the man sat in front of me today. from the man sat in front of me today. from the man sat in front of me today. And then there's the man sat in front of And then there's the man sat in front of And then there's the man sat in front of me today. And the reason I'm so me today. And the reason I'm so me today. And the reason I'm so fascinated by that is because if I can fascinated by that is because if I can fascinated by that is because if I can understand how you went from that hat understand how you went from that hat understand how you went from that hat you human to this one it gives me it you human to this one it gives me it you human to this one it gives me it liberates me from the excuses that I liberates me from the excuses that I liberates me from the excuses that I won't be able to pursue your protocols won't be able to pursue your protocols won't be able to pursue your protocols now. now. now. >> Yeah. Well certainly uh there's been a >> Yeah. Well certainly uh there's been a >> Yeah. Well certainly uh there's been a lot of adventure and transformation lot of adventure and transformation lot of adventure and transformation certainly some hardship. Listen I I'll certainly some hardship. Listen I I'll certainly some hardship. Listen I I'll be the first to say you know my life has be the first to say you know my life has be the first to say you know my life has been easier than it has been for others been easier than it has been for others been easier than it has been for others and harder than it has been for others. and harder than it has been for others. and harder than it has been for others. Right? So I'm not trying to plant a flag Right? So I'm not trying to plant a flag Right? So I'm not trying to plant a flag as having had the hardest or the easiest as having had the hardest or the easiest as having had the hardest or the easiest life. I only know um what's my life. I only know um what's my life. I only know um what's my experience, right? So all I've got is my experience, right? So all I've got is my experience, right? So all I've got is my experience, my knowledge and my words uh experience, my knowledge and my words uh experience, my knowledge and my words uh to convey that. But yeah, it was not a to convey that. But yeah, it was not a to convey that. But yeah, it was not a linear path. I would say the kind of key linear path. I would say the kind of key linear path. I would say the kind of key milestones along the way and the the the milestones along the way and the the the milestones along the way and the the the relevant pieces are for as long as I can relevant pieces are for as long as I can relevant pieces are for as long as I can remember, I've always had an intense remember, I've always had an intense remember, I've always had an intense curiosity and an intense desire for curiosity and an intense desire for curiosity and an intense desire for adventure. Um so I want to learn and I
08:00adventure. Um so I want to learn and I adventure. Um so I want to learn and I want to learn firsthand. I also suppose want to learn firsthand. I also suppose want to learn firsthand. I also suppose I've always had an intensity like I I've I've always had an intensity like I I've I've always had an intensity like I I've um been told since I was a young kid. um been told since I was a young kid. um been told since I was a young kid. You know, I sort of like forward leaning You know, I sort of like forward leaning You know, I sort of like forward leaning a little bit, you know, forward center a little bit, you know, forward center a little bit, you know, forward center of mass so to speak. Um but yeah, my of mass so to speak. Um but yeah, my of mass so to speak. Um but yeah, my childhood on the one hand was very childhood on the one hand was very childhood on the one hand was very conventional and and very sweet in the conventional and and very sweet in the conventional and and very sweet in the sense that, you know, I had two parents. sense that, you know, I had two parents. sense that, you know, I had two parents. My dad's actually a scientist. He's a My dad's actually a scientist. He's a My dad's actually a scientist. He's a theoretical physicist by training. He's theoretical physicist by training. He's theoretical physicist by training. He's Argentine but then did his graduate Argentine but then did his graduate Argentine but then did his graduate training in the United States. My training in the United States. My training in the United States. My mother's a writer and she was a teacher. mother's a writer and she was a teacher. mother's a writer and she was a teacher. She didn't work a whole lot when we were She didn't work a whole lot when we were She didn't work a whole lot when we were kids. She was mostly focused on raising kids. She was mostly focused on raising kids. She was mostly focused on raising us. And my childhood to my memory was us. And my childhood to my memory was us. And my childhood to my memory was marked by you know dinners together at marked by you know dinners together at marked by you know dinners together at the table. I was very very interested in the table. I was very very interested in the table. I was very very interested in all things biology in particular fish. all things biology in particular fish. all things biology in particular fish. So all things aquaria, birds, anything So all things aquaria, birds, anything So all things aquaria, birds, anything that you know tropical birds. I I would that you know tropical birds. I I would that you know tropical birds. I I would learn all about them, learn about fish. learn all about them, learn about fish. learn all about them, learn about fish. I would then lecture about these things I would then lecture about these things I would then lecture about these things in class on Monday as a way to try the in class on Monday as a way to try the in class on Monday as a way to try the teachers to try and get me to not talk teachers to try and get me to not talk teachers to try and get me to not talk to students around me because I'd be to students around me because I'd be to students around me because I'd be telling them about it otherwise. So I've telling them about it otherwise. So I've telling them about it otherwise. So I've been giving little lectures since I was
09:00been giving little lectures since I was been giving little lectures since I was a kid. And and then I suppose as I a kid. And and then I suppose as I a kid. And and then I suppose as I matured um so to speak um you know matured um so to speak um you know matured um so to speak um you know around adolescence my parents split up around adolescence my parents split up around adolescence my parents split up it was a very high conflict divorce um it was a very high conflict divorce um it was a very high conflict divorce um and that sent me uh in the direction of and that sent me uh in the direction of and that sent me uh in the direction of more kind of a wilder foraging let's more kind of a wilder foraging let's more kind of a wilder foraging let's call it that I was a bit feral um just call it that I was a bit feral um just call it that I was a bit feral um just that the circumstance led to situation that the circumstance led to situation that the circumstance led to situation where I was seeking out sports and where I was seeking out sports and where I was seeking out sports and friends for which there wasn't any friends for which there wasn't any friends for which there wasn't any parental involvement so for me the parental involvement so for me the parental involvement so for me the immediate attraction was to immediate attraction was to immediate attraction was to skateboarding and punk rock culture. And skateboarding and punk rock culture. And skateboarding and punk rock culture. And so I was very fortunate that I was drawn so I was very fortunate that I was drawn so I was very fortunate that I was drawn into skateboarding and punk rock culture into skateboarding and punk rock culture into skateboarding and punk rock culture in the early late 80s, early 90s. I'm 49 in the early late 80s, early 90s. I'm 49 in the early late 80s, early 90s. I'm 49 now or almost 49. And at that time that now or almost 49. And at that time that now or almost 49. And at that time that was a very naent culture. There was no X was a very naent culture. There was no X was a very naent culture. There was no X games. There were no major sponsors, games. There were no major sponsors, games. There were no major sponsors, that sort of thing. And so there were that sort of thing. And so there were that sort of thing. And so there were all these not parentless but rather all these not parentless but rather all these not parentless but rather feral kids. Some were parentless. And I feral kids. Some were parentless. And I feral kids. Some were parentless. And I got to be exposed to some incredible got to be exposed to some incredible got to be exposed to some incredible skateboarding. And I was not a skateboarding. And I was not a skateboarding. And I was not a particularly good skateboarder, but I particularly good skateboarder, but I particularly good skateboarder, but I certainly had the drive to try and do
10:00certainly had the drive to try and do certainly had the drive to try and do it. I kept hurting myself. So that was it. I kept hurting myself. So that was it. I kept hurting myself. So that was actually an important event. I kept, you actually an important event. I kept, you actually an important event. I kept, you know, hurting my body, trying to push know, hurting my body, trying to push know, hurting my body, trying to push myself to get really good. Friends of myself to get really good. Friends of myself to get really good. Friends of mine were getting sponsored. Close mine were getting sponsored. Close mine were getting sponsored. Close friend of mine got picked up as a pro friend of mine got picked up as a pro friend of mine got picked up as a pro while we were in high school. We were while we were in high school. We were while we were in high school. We were traveling, going to contests. What you traveling, going to contests. What you traveling, going to contests. What you probably may have noticed is there probably may have noticed is there probably may have noticed is there wasn't a lot of attending school. So I wasn't a lot of attending school. So I wasn't a lot of attending school. So I don't recommend this to young people. don't recommend this to young people. don't recommend this to young people. Stay in school at least at the early Stay in school at least at the early Stay in school at least at the early stage. Get that basic education while stage. Get that basic education while stage. Get that basic education while your brain is still hyperlastic. But, your brain is still hyperlastic. But, your brain is still hyperlastic. But, you know, I was exposed to and you know, I was exposed to and you know, I was exposed to and fortunately did not partake in a lot of fortunately did not partake in a lot of fortunately did not partake in a lot of drugs and violence, but I saw that. I drugs and violence, but I saw that. I drugs and violence, but I saw that. I also saw a lot of incredible also saw a lot of incredible also saw a lot of incredible skateboarding. Some of these people went skateboarding. Some of these people went skateboarding. Some of these people went on to um start huge companies and do on to um start huge companies and do on to um start huge companies and do incredible things in the realm of action incredible things in the realm of action incredible things in the realm of action sports. So, like DC, um I know the guys sports. So, like DC, um I know the guys sports. So, like DC, um I know the guys that started that, Danny Way, Colin that started that, Danny Way, Colin that started that, Danny Way, Colin McKay, you know, I like I knew at that McKay, you know, I like I knew at that McKay, you know, I like I knew at that time um I knew of I wasn't close with, time um I knew of I wasn't close with, time um I knew of I wasn't close with, but you know, Tony Hawk watched his but you know, Tony Hawk watched his but you know, Tony Hawk watched his ascent, right? He was a few years ahead ascent, right? He was a few years ahead ascent, right? He was a few years ahead of me. Um, but I would attend contests, of me. Um, but I would attend contests, of me. Um, but I would attend contests, skating contests. So, I was in this skating contests. So, I was in this skating contests. So, I was in this world where it was all DIY. It was all
11:00world where it was all DIY. It was all world where it was all DIY. It was all self-created. Now, at some point, I got self-created. Now, at some point, I got self-created. Now, at some point, I got a girlfriend and um got into other a girlfriend and um got into other a girlfriend and um got into other things. Um, and kind of left things. Um, and kind of left things. Um, and kind of left skateboarding. Um, thought I might be a skateboarding. Um, thought I might be a skateboarding. Um, thought I might be a firefighter for a little while. I was firefighter for a little while. I was firefighter for a little while. I was always very physical. always very physical. always very physical. >> What age is this? >> What age is this? >> What age is this? >> Um, so I was 16 when I got my first >> Um, so I was 16 when I got my first >> Um, so I was 16 when I got my first girlfriend. And, um, I wasn't doing well girlfriend. And, um, I wasn't doing well girlfriend. And, um, I wasn't doing well in skateboarding. I kept breaking my in skateboarding. I kept breaking my in skateboarding. I kept breaking my foot. Um, people were moving on without foot. Um, people were moving on without foot. Um, people were moving on without me. That was just the nature of it. I me. That was just the nature of it. I me. That was just the nature of it. I was in love with her. Wanted to spend was in love with her. Wanted to spend was in love with her. Wanted to spend time with her. And so I thought, well, time with her. And so I thought, well, time with her. And so I thought, well, I'm not really doing well in school. I'm I'm not really doing well in school. I'm I'm not really doing well in school. I'm not really attending school. I'll need not really attending school. I'll need not really attending school. I'll need to work and take care of us. You know, I to work and take care of us. You know, I to work and take care of us. You know, I was really thinking kind of like an was really thinking kind of like an was really thinking kind of like an adult at that point in terms of what I adult at that point in terms of what I adult at that point in terms of what I would do. And so, I thought I'd get into would do. And so, I thought I'd get into would do. And so, I thought I'd get into the fire service. So, I started trying the fire service. So, I started trying the fire service. So, I started trying to strengthen my body. I started doing to strengthen my body. I started doing to strengthen my body. I started doing resistance training. Keep in mind, back resistance training. Keep in mind, back resistance training. Keep in mind, back then, the only people that lifted then, the only people that lifted then, the only people that lifted weights were, you know, preseason weights were, you know, preseason weights were, you know, preseason American football players, people going American football players, people going American football players, people going to the military, and bodybuilders. And I to the military, and bodybuilders. And I to the military, and bodybuilders. And I wasn't interested in any of those three wasn't interested in any of those three wasn't interested in any of those three things, but I started doing resist things, but I started doing resist things, but I started doing resist resistance training um and realized, resistance training um and realized, resistance training um and realized, wow, like this is a really powerful
12:00wow, like this is a really powerful wow, like this is a really powerful tool. I can make my body stronger tool. I can make my body stronger tool. I can make my body stronger through work. I could I couldn't do a through work. I could I couldn't do a through work. I could I couldn't do a single pull-up when I started. I was single pull-up when I started. I was single pull-up when I started. I was always pretty skinny. I, you know, shot always pretty skinny. I, you know, shot always pretty skinny. I, you know, shot up uh a full foot in height, but was up uh a full foot in height, but was up uh a full foot in height, but was very very skinny, you know, at that very very skinny, you know, at that very very skinny, you know, at that point. And um within, you know, a summer point. And um within, you know, a summer point. And um within, you know, a summer I could do pull-ups, I could do these I could do pull-ups, I could do these I could do pull-ups, I could do these things. I thought, wow, like there's things. I thought, wow, like there's things. I thought, wow, like there's this remarkable relationship between this remarkable relationship between this remarkable relationship between doing physical effort and kind of doing physical effort and kind of doing physical effort and kind of ability or outcome. And then I also ability or outcome. And then I also ability or outcome. And then I also started running a lot for whatever started running a lot for whatever started running a lot for whatever reason. I ran cross country my senior reason. I ran cross country my senior reason. I ran cross country my senior year of high school. And also there I year of high school. And also there I year of high school. And also there I felt like there was a direct felt like there was a direct felt like there was a direct relationship between effort and outcome. relationship between effort and outcome. relationship between effort and outcome. If I ran further, then the next time I If I ran further, then the next time I If I ran further, then the next time I could run even further. If my lungs could run even further. If my lungs could run even further. If my lungs burned on a hill run, well then the next burned on a hill run, well then the next burned on a hill run, well then the next time I could do that hill without my time I could do that hill without my time I could do that hill without my lungs burning. Whereas in skateboarding, lungs burning. Whereas in skateboarding, lungs burning. Whereas in skateboarding, no matter how hard I seem to try, I just no matter how hard I seem to try, I just no matter how hard I seem to try, I just couldn't match the level of effort with couldn't match the level of effort with couldn't match the level of effort with the outcome. So, it was from that point the outcome. So, it was from that point the outcome. So, it was from that point forward that, you know, 16 years old forward that, you know, 16 years old forward that, you know, 16 years old forward that I made running and forward that I made running and forward that I made running and resistance training just part of my resistance training just part of my resistance training just part of my regular weekly schedule. Um, what ended regular weekly schedule. Um, what ended regular weekly schedule. Um, what ended up happening was she went off to up happening was she went off to
13:00up happening was she went off to college. college. college. I ended up just basically living in my I ended up just basically living in my I ended up just basically living in my car or her dorm room while she was off car or her dorm room while she was off car or her dorm room while she was off at college. She was a year ahead of me. at college. She was a year ahead of me. at college. She was a year ahead of me. And I realized I wanted to be near her. And I realized I wanted to be near her. And I realized I wanted to be near her. So I eventually I applied to college and So I eventually I applied to college and So I eventually I applied to college and somehow got in. By the end of my somehow got in. By the end of my somehow got in. By the end of my freshman year, I had been getting in freshman year, I had been getting in freshman year, I had been getting in multiple fights. So I was still had that multiple fights. So I was still had that multiple fights. So I was still had that kind of wildness from the world I was kind of wildness from the world I was kind of wildness from the world I was previously in. I was getting into previously in. I was getting into previously in. I was getting into physical altercations. I was never into physical altercations. I was never into physical altercations. I was never into drugs or alcohol. That was fortunate. I drugs or alcohol. That was fortunate. I drugs or alcohol. That was fortunate. I don't have a propensity to be addicted don't have a propensity to be addicted don't have a propensity to be addicted to those things. But my life really to those things. But my life really to those things. But my life really wasn't in order. And it was really it wasn't in order. And it was really it wasn't in order. And it was really it was actually nearly 30 years ago to the was actually nearly 30 years ago to the was actually nearly 30 years ago to the day. It was July 4th, 1994. I went to a day. It was July 4th, 1994. I went to a day. It was July 4th, 1994. I went to a barbecue. I got into an altercation with barbecue. I got into an altercation with barbecue. I got into an altercation with a bunch of people that were robbing the a bunch of people that were robbing the a bunch of people that were robbing the house that we were at. Um and and by the house that we were at. Um and and by the house that we were at. Um and and by the way, there's sort of a little tangent way, there's sort of a little tangent way, there's sort of a little tangent side story. One of my um friends in side story. One of my um friends in side story. One of my um friends in college, we weren't super close, but my college, we weren't super close, but my college, we weren't super close, but my girlfriend at the time had lived with girlfriend at the time had lived with girlfriend at the time had lived with the now wife of Jack Johnson, the
14:00the now wife of Jack Johnson, the the now wife of Jack Johnson, the musician. So Jack recalls that party. We musician. So Jack recalls that party. We musician. So Jack recalls that party. We have other friends from that party. That have other friends from that party. That have other friends from that party. That was a kind of a a meaningful day for me was a kind of a a meaningful day for me was a kind of a a meaningful day for me because I got into this altercation. because I got into this altercation. because I got into this altercation. Everything turned out okay um in the Everything turned out okay um in the Everything turned out okay um in the sense that, you know, we got our sense that, you know, we got our sense that, you know, we got our belongings back. No one was badly hurt. belongings back. No one was badly hurt. belongings back. No one was badly hurt. But I remember going back to the place But I remember going back to the place But I remember going back to the place where I was staying at that time and where I was staying at that time and where I was staying at that time and thinking to myself, okay, this is bad, thinking to myself, okay, this is bad, thinking to myself, okay, this is bad, right? I'm, you know, like 19 years old right? I'm, you know, like 19 years old right? I'm, you know, like 19 years old or I guess it was just shy of of of 18. or I guess it was just shy of of of 18. or I guess it was just shy of of of 18. I am I am I am not doing well in school. My freshman not doing well in school. My freshman not doing well in school. My freshman year was a disaster where I went to year was a disaster where I went to year was a disaster where I went to college. I don't think I flunked out, college. I don't think I flunked out, college. I don't think I flunked out, but I it just wasn't really attending but I it just wasn't really attending but I it just wasn't really attending class. I wasn't doing well. I'm getting class. I wasn't doing well. I'm getting class. I wasn't doing well. I'm getting in physical altercations. I'm working at in physical altercations. I'm working at in physical altercations. I'm working at this little bagel shop delivering this little bagel shop delivering this little bagel shop delivering bagels, and there's nothing wrong with bagels, and there's nothing wrong with bagels, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not much of a future in that, but it's not much of a future in that, but it's not much of a future in it for me. Um, I didn't end up going to it for me. Um, I didn't end up going to it for me. Um, I didn't end up going to the fire service. I didn't end up a the fire service. I didn't end up a the fire service. I didn't end up a professional athlete. I thought like, professional athlete. I thought like, professional athlete. I thought like, what am I going to do with like what am what am I going to do with like what am what am I going to do with like what am I going to do, right? because the story I going to do, right? because the story I going to do, right? because the story of whatever happened to me prior to that of whatever happened to me prior to that of whatever happened to me prior to that was kind of meaningless unless I made
15:00was kind of meaningless unless I made was kind of meaningless unless I made something of myself. So that day I something of myself. So that day I something of myself. So that day I actually wrote myself and my parents a actually wrote myself and my parents a actually wrote myself and my parents a letter saying that I was going to turn letter saying that I was going to turn letter saying that I was going to turn my life around. And I actually still my life around. And I actually still my life around. And I actually still have this letter. My mother still has have this letter. My mother still has have this letter. My mother still has this letter. And what I decided to do this letter. And what I decided to do this letter. And what I decided to do was to take a leave of absence from was to take a leave of absence from was to take a leave of absence from university. I didn't drop out. A leave university. I didn't drop out. A leave university. I didn't drop out. A leave of absence allows you the option to go of absence allows you the option to go of absence allows you the option to go back. I moved home and I worked. So, I back. I moved home and I worked. So, I back. I moved home and I worked. So, I was a bus boy at a little restaurant in was a bus boy at a little restaurant in was a bus boy at a little restaurant in town where I grew up. And I still town where I grew up. And I still town where I grew up. And I still continue to run and do resistance continue to run and do resistance continue to run and do resistance training, you know, three times a week training, you know, three times a week training, you know, three times a week each or so. And I went to community each or so. And I went to community each or so. And I went to community college, which is um typically where college, which is um typically where college, which is um typically where kids who can't afford to go to kids who can't afford to go to kids who can't afford to go to university or kids that just stay back university or kids that just stay back university or kids that just stay back for whatever reason. It's a wonderful for whatever reason. It's a wonderful for whatever reason. It's a wonderful aspect of the the um educational system aspect of the the um educational system aspect of the the um educational system in California still. and I made learning in California still. and I made learning in California still. and I made learning and filling my mind with formal rigorous and filling my mind with formal rigorous and filling my mind with formal rigorous coursework-based knowledge my absolute coursework-based knowledge my absolute coursework-based knowledge my absolute mission. Now, I didn't care if I liked mission. Now, I didn't care if I liked mission. Now, I didn't care if I liked it. I just was like, I'm going to trust
16:00it. I just was like, I'm going to trust it. I just was like, I'm going to trust my ability to learn because I could tell my ability to learn because I could tell my ability to learn because I could tell you a lot about tropical fish, you a lot about tropical fish, you a lot about tropical fish, skateboarding, punk rock music, a fair skateboarding, punk rock music, a fair skateboarding, punk rock music, a fair amount about physical training at that amount about physical training at that amount about physical training at that point. I sought out the right people. point. I sought out the right people. point. I sought out the right people. This has always been something I've been This has always been something I've been This has always been something I've been good at is seeking out the right people good at is seeking out the right people good at is seeking out the right people with knowledge. So, I got great with knowledge. So, I got great with knowledge. So, I got great knowledge from the late Mike Menser who knowledge from the late Mike Menser who knowledge from the late Mike Menser who had trained Darian Yates. Um, I was had trained Darian Yates. Um, I was had trained Darian Yates. Um, I was reading every book I could on physical reading every book I could on physical reading every book I could on physical fitness and rehabilitation, trying to fitness and rehabilitation, trying to fitness and rehabilitation, trying to get my body strong. Um, never wanted to get my body strong. Um, never wanted to get my body strong. Um, never wanted to be big, you know? I was always be big, you know? I was always be big, you know? I was always interested in being strong and being interested in being strong and being interested in being strong and being able to run far and fast. That was able to run far and fast. That was able to run far and fast. That was always a goal, like a capability. I I've always a goal, like a capability. I I've always a goal, like a capability. I I've not been one of the um people to like not been one of the um people to like not been one of the um people to like really care about like hypertrophy. That really care about like hypertrophy. That really care about like hypertrophy. That wasn't something that mattered to me. If wasn't something that mattered to me. If wasn't something that mattered to me. If some came along as a consequence of some came along as a consequence of some came along as a consequence of training, great. But it was more about a training, great. But it was more about a training, great. But it was more about a a capability to do things. So at that a capability to do things. So at that a capability to do things. So at that point I just became a voracious learner. point I just became a voracious learner. point I just became a voracious learner. I took every bit of energy that I had I took every bit of energy that I had I took every bit of energy that I had applied to these other areas and put applied to these other areas and put applied to these other areas and put them into learning math, science, art, them into learning math, science, art, them into learning math, science, art, history, English, literature, whatever history, English, literature, whatever history, English, literature, whatever you know course work was thrown at me.
17:00you know course work was thrown at me. you know course work was thrown at me. And then after a year of that went back And then after a year of that went back And then after a year of that went back to university, lived alone in a studio to university, lived alone in a studio to university, lived alone in a studio apartment and basically for the apartment and basically for the apartment and basically for the remaining portion of university all I remaining portion of university all I remaining portion of university all I did was did was did was study, work out, hang out with my study, work out, hang out with my study, work out, hang out with my girlfriend, run, listen to at that time girlfriend, run, listen to at that time girlfriend, run, listen to at that time like early 90s punk rock music, which is like early 90s punk rock music, which is like early 90s punk rock music, which is still a wonderful genre. So mainly like still a wonderful genre. So mainly like still a wonderful genre. So mainly like Rancid, Operation Ivy, Bob Dylan, always Rancid, Operation Ivy, Bob Dylan, always Rancid, Operation Ivy, Bob Dylan, always love Bob Dylan. classical music when I love Bob Dylan. classical music when I love Bob Dylan. classical music when I study and that was it. I didn't do study and that was it. I didn't do study and that was it. I didn't do anything else. And at that point, I anything else. And at that point, I anything else. And at that point, I started getting straight A's. People started getting straight A's. People started getting straight A's. People didn't recognize me. They're like, didn't recognize me. They're like, didn't recognize me. They're like, "Aren't you the guy from freshman year "Aren't you the guy from freshman year "Aren't you the guy from freshman year that was getting in all these fights?" I that was getting in all these fights?" I that was getting in all these fights?" I will admit that I wasn't um completely will admit that I wasn't um completely will admit that I wasn't um completely devoid of of uh the typical college um devoid of of uh the typical college um devoid of of uh the typical college um phenotype. Once a month, I would allow phenotype. Once a month, I would allow phenotype. Once a month, I would allow myself to go out to a party and I'd myself to go out to a party and I'd myself to go out to a party and I'd party once a month, but stayed away from party once a month, but stayed away from party once a month, but stayed away from drugs. Was never never my thing. And um drugs. Was never never my thing. And um drugs. Was never never my thing. And um so drank which you know eventually I so drank which you know eventually I so drank which you know eventually I realized wasn't my thing either but I
18:00realized wasn't my thing either but I realized wasn't my thing either but I was just completely committed. So I was just completely committed. So I was just completely committed. So I graduated university with honors. I went graduated university with honors. I went graduated university with honors. I went to graduate school, did a master's up at to graduate school, did a master's up at to graduate school, did a master's up at uh UC Berkeley. Um then did my PhD, did uh UC Berkeley. Um then did my PhD, did uh UC Berkeley. Um then did my PhD, did my posttock at Stanford and then my posttock at Stanford and then my posttock at Stanford and then eventually got a laboratory um first at eventually got a laboratory um first at eventually got a laboratory um first at UC San Diego, excellent neuroscience UC San Diego, excellent neuroscience UC San Diego, excellent neuroscience program, eventually was recruited to program, eventually was recruited to program, eventually was recruited to Stanford uh with tenure and all along Stanford uh with tenure and all along Stanford uh with tenure and all along maintaining physical fitness in the maintaining physical fitness in the maintaining physical fitness in the background, focusing very heavily on background, focusing very heavily on background, focusing very heavily on doing primary research, meaning making doing primary research, meaning making doing primary research, meaning making discoveries in neuroscience and discoveries in neuroscience and discoveries in neuroscience and publishing papers. And then in 2019, publishing papers. And then in 2019, publishing papers. And then in 2019, I decided to start posting science on I decided to start posting science on I decided to start posting science on Instagram. Just really nerdy stuff. Um, Instagram. Just really nerdy stuff. Um, Instagram. Just really nerdy stuff. Um, no protocols, just telling people about no protocols, just telling people about no protocols, just telling people about sunlight and the relationship to the sunlight and the relationship to the sunlight and the relationship to the eye, dopamine, and ex I just enjoyed eye, dopamine, and ex I just enjoyed eye, dopamine, and ex I just enjoyed talking about it just like I did when I talking about it just like I did when I talking about it just like I did when I was a little kid, telling people about was a little kid, telling people about was a little kid, telling people about tropical fish. And in 2020, my plan was tropical fish. And in 2020, my plan was tropical fish. And in 2020, my plan was to release a book. So, I got a guy, a PR
19:00to release a book. So, I got a guy, a PR to release a book. So, I got a guy, a PR guy, his name is Rob Moore. who's now a guy, his name is Rob Moore. who's now a guy, his name is Rob Moore. who's now a close friend of mine and we were talking close friend of mine and we were talking close friend of mine and we were talking about how we would I don't know maybe go about how we would I don't know maybe go about how we would I don't know maybe go on podcast or do something of that sort on podcast or do something of that sort on podcast or do something of that sort when the book came out and then the when the book came out and then the when the book came out and then the pandemic hit and I said you know what pandemic hit and I said you know what pandemic hit and I said you know what let's pause the book and he said let's let's pause the book and he said let's let's pause the book and he said let's just maybe go on podcasts so that year just maybe go on podcasts so that year just maybe go on podcasts so that year 2020 I went on I think somewhere between 2020 I went on I think somewhere between 2020 I went on I think somewhere between 20 and 30 podcasts no book no website no 20 and 30 podcasts no book no website no 20 and 30 podcasts no book no website no nothing just like talking science and nothing just like talking science and nothing just like talking science and delighted in that and then January 2021 delighted in that and then January 2021 delighted in that and then January 2021 I got a little place um in a little uh I got a little place um in a little uh I got a little place um in a little uh kind of canyon region of Los Angeles, a kind of canyon region of Los Angeles, a kind of canyon region of Los Angeles, a little sbatical like uh retreat and um little sbatical like uh retreat and um little sbatical like uh retreat and um set up some cameras at my bulldog set up some cameras at my bulldog set up some cameras at my bulldog Costello there. Rob Moore became my Costello there. Rob Moore became my Costello there. Rob Moore became my podcast producer and on January 1st more podcast producer and on January 1st more podcast producer and on January 1st more or less, we launched the Hubberman Lab or less, we launched the Hubberman Lab or less, we launched the Hubberman Lab podcast where now I still just blab podcast where now I still just blab podcast where now I still just blab about stuff that I find interesting and about stuff that I find interesting and about stuff that I find interesting and that I think can be useful to people. So that I think can be useful to people. So that I think can be useful to people. So that's the kind of um that's the arc and
20:00that's the kind of um that's the arc and that's the kind of um that's the arc and as I tell all this I also just want to as I tell all this I also just want to as I tell all this I also just want to make sure that people know that it make sure that people know that it make sure that people know that it sounds like this magnificent arc but sounds like this magnificent arc but sounds like this magnificent arc but along the way there were absolutely along the way there were absolutely along the way there were absolutely times when I thought oh what am I going times when I thought oh what am I going times when I thought oh what am I going to do like this is working but this to do like this is working but this to do like this is working but this isn't working and my life at times isn't working and my life at times isn't working and my life at times became very lopsided I focused mainly on became very lopsided I focused mainly on became very lopsided I focused mainly on work and research um you know I'm 49 work and research um you know I'm 49 work and research um you know I'm 49 years old now I've had some wonderful years old now I've had some wonderful years old now I've had some wonderful relationships across my life but I opted relationships across my life but I opted relationships across my life but I opted to delay on marriage and family as a way to delay on marriage and family as a way to delay on marriage and family as a way to uh well, it wasn't the intention, but to uh well, it wasn't the intention, but to uh well, it wasn't the intention, but as a way to really just continue to pour as a way to really just continue to pour as a way to really just continue to pour my energy into the things that I was my energy into the things that I was my energy into the things that I was most passionate about. So, there's most passionate about. So, there's most passionate about. So, there's always sacrifice. There were, you know, always sacrifice. There were, you know, always sacrifice. There were, you know, sadly, I've lost a lot of friends along sadly, I've lost a lot of friends along sadly, I've lost a lot of friends along the way to some to drugs and alcohol, the way to some to drugs and alcohol, the way to some to drugs and alcohol, suicide, depression, and so on. Um, suicide, depression, and so on. Um, suicide, depression, and so on. Um, others to just unfortunate consequences others to just unfortunate consequences others to just unfortunate consequences or age. But the um I think the major or age. But the um I think the major or age. But the um I think the major themes have been I just simply can't themes have been I just simply can't themes have been I just simply can't pull myself off a desire to learn and pull myself off a desire to learn and pull myself off a desire to learn and adventure through a particular space and
21:00adventure through a particular space and adventure through a particular space and then once I learn things and as I learn then once I learn things and as I learn then once I learn things and as I learn things I can't seem to help but just things I can't seem to help but just things I can't seem to help but just tell everybody about it you know tell everybody about it you know tell everybody about it you know provided there's somebody there to provided there's somebody there to provided there's somebody there to listen then I'm eager to share what what listen then I'm eager to share what what listen then I'm eager to share what what I learned. I learned. I learned. >> It's funny in life how some of the most >> It's funny in life how some of the most >> It's funny in life how some of the most traumatic things that happen to us and traumatic things that happen to us and traumatic things that happen to us and trauma is such a subjective thing. So trauma is such a subjective thing. So trauma is such a subjective thing. So what's trauma for me is not for Francis what's trauma for me is not for Francis what's trauma for me is not for Francis Inganu who I've heard his story and you Inganu who I've heard his story and you Inganu who I've heard his story and you know walking out of Africa and jumping know walking out of Africa and jumping know walking out of Africa and jumping over bar wire and walking across the over bar wire and walking across the over bar wire and walking across the Sahara desert. Sahara desert. Sahara desert. >> His is an amazing >> His is an amazing >> His is an amazing >> I just can't you know it's like >> I just can't you know it's like >> I just can't you know it's like >> I hear he's a very nice guy. >> I hear he's a very nice guy. >> I hear he's a very nice guy. >> He's exceptionally nice. He's a >> He's exceptionally nice. He's a >> He's exceptionally nice. He's a wonderful individual. But I'm I'm really wonderful individual. But I'm I'm really wonderful individual. But I'm I'm really interested in how our traumatic interested in how our traumatic interested in how our traumatic experiences end up um dragging us in experiences end up um dragging us in experiences end up um dragging us in whatever shape in life. Dragging us or whatever shape in life. Dragging us or whatever shape in life. Dragging us or making us driven that it's almost two making us driven that it's almost two making us driven that it's almost two sides of the same coin sometimes. But I sides of the same coin sometimes. But I sides of the same coin sometimes. But I just wanted to zoom back in on when you just wanted to zoom back in on when you just wanted to zoom back in on when you were younger. Um because I was reading were younger. Um because I was reading were younger. Um because I was reading about at sort of 14, 15 years old, you about at sort of 14, 15 years old, you about at sort of 14, 15 years old, you were put into a residential treatment were put into a residential treatment were put into a residential treatment program. program. program. >> I was. So one day in school, and by the >> I was. So one day in school, and by the >> I was. So one day in school, and by the way, I wasn't in school much. And if I way, I wasn't in school much. And if I way, I wasn't in school much. And if I was there, I was the kid with the hoodie
22:00was there, I was the kid with the hoodie was there, I was the kid with the hoodie on. It was head on the table, you know, on. It was head on the table, you know, on. It was head on the table, you know, just kind of like sleeping or drawing or just kind of like sleeping or drawing or just kind of like sleeping or drawing or um I was not tuned in to what I should um I was not tuned in to what I should um I was not tuned in to what I should have been tuned into. Um I was looking have been tuned into. Um I was looking have been tuned into. Um I was looking back I think I was depressed, I was sad, back I think I was depressed, I was sad, back I think I was depressed, I was sad, I was confused by the fracture of my I was confused by the fracture of my I was confused by the fracture of my family. And listen um [clears throat] family. And listen um [clears throat] family. And listen um [clears throat] divorce and family reorganization can divorce and family reorganization can divorce and family reorganization can take place without all that. take place without all that. take place without all that. Unfortunately, this was a very Unfortunately, this was a very Unfortunately, this was a very complicated situation. Um and maybe it complicated situation. Um and maybe it complicated situation. Um and maybe it [clears throat] was also puberty [clears throat] was also puberty [clears throat] was also puberty combined with combined with combined with >> general confusion about life. Um those >> general confusion about life. Um those >> general confusion about life. Um those things um combined to you know put me in things um combined to you know put me in things um combined to you know put me in a state that I think looking back I was a state that I think looking back I was a state that I think looking back I was I was scared, depressed and confused I was scared, depressed and confused I was scared, depressed and confused like a lot of young people happen to be like a lot of young people happen to be like a lot of young people happen to be at that age. So at that age. So at that age. So a number of things happened. Um I was a number of things happened. Um I was a number of things happened. Um I was getting into trouble. Uh I wasn't getting into trouble. Uh I wasn't getting into trouble. Uh I wasn't attending school. I was truent a lot. Um attending school. I was truent a lot. Um attending school. I was truent a lot. Um and yeah, one day they came to like get and yeah, one day they came to like get and yeah, one day they came to like get me. They basically called me into the me. They basically called me into the me. They basically called me into the office. I was sitting there um talking
23:00office. I was sitting there um talking office. I was sitting there um talking to the school counselor. It wasn't my to the school counselor. It wasn't my to the school counselor. It wasn't my first time doing that. And then some first time doing that. And then some first time doing that. And then some other people showed up there and I other people showed up there and I other people showed up there and I started to realize like uhoh, I think I started to realize like uhoh, I think I started to realize like uhoh, I think I know what this is. Um which was they know what this is. Um which was they know what this is. Um which was they were going to take me away. Um now the were going to take me away. Um now the were going to take me away. Um now the exact stimulus for all this, whether or exact stimulus for all this, whether or exact stimulus for all this, whether or not a friend, I think I know who it was, not a friend, I think I know who it was, not a friend, I think I know who it was, had been concerned about me and had had been concerned about me and had had been concerned about me and had intervened or whether or not it was intervened or whether or not it was intervened or whether or not it was purely from the parent side isn't clear purely from the parent side isn't clear purely from the parent side isn't clear to me still. I have my theories, so they to me still. I have my theories, so they to me still. I have my theories, so they have theirs. Um but in any event, I soon have theirs. Um but in any event, I soon have theirs. Um but in any event, I soon after found myself in a residential after found myself in a residential after found myself in a residential treatment program and um it was treatment program and um it was treatment program and um it was interesting because it was the first interesting because it was the first interesting because it was the first time that I had ever had my freedom time that I had ever had my freedom time that I had ever had my freedom taken away from me. You know, that was taken away from me. You know, that was taken away from me. You know, that was an experience like doors go locked and an experience like doors go locked and an experience like doors go locked and you're like, whoa, you know, like you're like, whoa, you know, like you're like, whoa, you know, like >> what is my freedom taken away? Well, >> what is my freedom taken away? Well, >> what is my freedom taken away? Well, you're locked you're locked in a you're locked you're locked in a you're locked you're locked in a treatment program basically. You know, treatment program basically. You know, treatment program basically. You know, these were all kids that were delinquent these were all kids that were delinquent these were all kids that were delinquent or had problems of various sorts. So, or had problems of various sorts. So, or had problems of various sorts. So, you're on a hallway with a bunch of you're on a hallway with a bunch of you're on a hallway with a bunch of other kids. Um, you know, you're staying other kids. Um, you know, you're staying other kids. Um, you know, you're staying there at night. You're not leaving. there at night. You're not leaving. there at night. You're not leaving. You're not free to walk to leave. And
24:00You're not free to walk to leave. And You're not free to walk to leave. And they make you do group therapy. You have they make you do group therapy. You have they make you do group therapy. You have to do one-on-one therapy. Um, you have to do one-on-one therapy. Um, you have to do one-on-one therapy. Um, you have an hour to exercise outside. You're not an hour to exercise outside. You're not an hour to exercise outside. You're not leaving the the grounds. Yeah. This is a leaving the the grounds. Yeah. This is a leaving the the grounds. Yeah. This is a like a combination of like if you were like a combination of like if you were like a combination of like if you were to just sort of merge in your mind like to just sort of merge in your mind like to just sort of merge in your mind like youth detention and hospital, right? youth detention and hospital, right? youth detention and hospital, right? That's kind of the the the the unity of That's kind of the the the the unity of That's kind of the the the the unity of these. Now, kids there and they and we these. Now, kids there and they and we these. Now, kids there and they and we were kids, right? Um, and there was a were kids, right? Um, and there was a were kids, right? Um, and there was a there was a unit of much younger kids there was a unit of much younger kids there was a unit of much younger kids and there was a unit of people much and there was a unit of people much and there was a unit of people much older than us. And I'll never forget older than us. And I'll never forget older than us. And I'll never forget what they said. One of the counselors what they said. One of the counselors what they said. One of the counselors there said to us, "Listen, the kids over there said to us, "Listen, the kids over there said to us, "Listen, the kids over there, the younger ones and the adults there, the younger ones and the adults there, the younger ones and the adults over there, over there, over there, they're crazy. You guys, you're not they're crazy. You guys, you're not they're crazy. You guys, you're not crazy. You just have problems." And I'll crazy. You just have problems." And I'll crazy. You just have problems." And I'll never forget, one of the kids that was never forget, one of the kids that was never forget, one of the kids that was in there with me goes, "Yeah, but that's in there with me goes, "Yeah, but that's in there with me goes, "Yeah, but that's exactly what they're telling the exactly what they're telling the exactly what they're telling the people." in the other two [laughter] in people." in the other two [laughter] in people." in the other two [laughter] in the other two units. So, pretty quickly the other two units. So, pretty quickly the other two units. So, pretty quickly I realized like this place is is I realized like this place is is I realized like this place is is problematic and I was scared. I won't problematic and I was scared. I won't problematic and I was scared. I won't forget like my my roommate who turned forget like my my roommate who turned forget like my my roommate who turned out to be a very kind person, but he
25:00out to be a very kind person, but he out to be a very kind person, but he looked like Richard Ramirez the looked like Richard Ramirez the looked like Richard Ramirez the Nightstalker and he had a cutting Nightstalker and he had a cutting Nightstalker and he had a cutting problem and he was like a scary looking problem and he was like a scary looking problem and he was like a scary looking guy, but as I got to know him, I guy, but as I got to know him, I guy, but as I got to know him, I realized that he um was just a a kid realized that he um was just a a kid realized that he um was just a a kid with a lot of problems, different than with a lot of problems, different than with a lot of problems, different than mine, but a lot of problems. So, you're mine, but a lot of problems. So, you're mine, but a lot of problems. So, you're in there with kids with severe drug in there with kids with severe drug in there with kids with severe drug issues, with um some were suicidal, some issues, with um some were suicidal, some issues, with um some were suicidal, some weren't, some had aggression issues. Um weren't, some had aggression issues. Um weren't, some had aggression issues. Um it was a co-ed unit during the day. it was a co-ed unit during the day. it was a co-ed unit during the day. Obviously, you're you're housed, you Obviously, you're you're housed, you Obviously, you're you're housed, you know, it was boys with boys, girls with know, it was boys with boys, girls with know, it was boys with boys, girls with girls. Um and after about 2 three days, girls. Um and after about 2 three days, girls. Um and after about 2 three days, I realized, okay, the only way out of I realized, okay, the only way out of I realized, okay, the only way out of here is to do the work. So, I did the here is to do the work. So, I did the here is to do the work. So, I did the work. I sat down and I started for the work. I sat down and I started for the work. I sat down and I started for the first time really talking about what was first time really talking about what was first time really talking about what was going on for me and listening. You can going on for me and listening. You can going on for me and listening. You can learn a lot in those places by listening learn a lot in those places by listening learn a lot in those places by listening to what's going on for other people. And to what's going on for other people. And to what's going on for other people. And I realized that a lot of what was going I realized that a lot of what was going I realized that a lot of what was going on internally for me had to do with the on internally for me had to do with the on internally for me had to do with the fact that, you know, you know, I fact that, you know, you know, I fact that, you know, you know, I [clears throat] mean, what do we need?
26:00[clears throat] mean, what do we need? [clears throat] mean, what do we need? We we basically need safety and We we basically need safety and We we basically need safety and acceptance at some level, you know, from acceptance at some level, you know, from acceptance at some level, you know, from from parents, we also need guard rails. from parents, we also need guard rails. from parents, we also need guard rails. And at that time, I was lacking all And at that time, I was lacking all And at that time, I was lacking all three. Um, and I think, you know, my three. Um, and I think, you know, my three. Um, and I think, you know, my inherent intensity and I'm a pretty, um, inherent intensity and I'm a pretty, um, inherent intensity and I'm a pretty, um, I'm not an emotional person in the sense I'm not an emotional person in the sense I'm not an emotional person in the sense that I don't emote easily. Um, but I'm that I don't emote easily. Um, but I'm that I don't emote easily. Um, but I'm [clears throat] a very feeling person. I [clears throat] a very feeling person. I [clears throat] a very feeling person. I feel a lot. I don't know how other feel a lot. I don't know how other feel a lot. I don't know how other people perceive me, but I feel a lot. people perceive me, but I feel a lot. people perceive me, but I feel a lot. And, um, I think what was happening in And, um, I think what was happening in And, um, I think what was happening in my family unit at that time felt my family unit at that time felt my family unit at that time felt devastating. And, um, I missed my devastating. And, um, I missed my devastating. And, um, I missed my sister. She was off off in college. She sister. She was off off in college. She sister. She was off off in college. She had gone off to college. I've always had gone off to college. I've always had gone off to college. I've always been really close with my sister and and been really close with my sister and and been really close with my sister and and really because this was like late well really because this was like late well really because this was like late well this was late 80s early 90s I also this was late 80s early 90s I also this was late 80s early 90s I also didn't know many people from homes didn't know many people from homes didn't know many people from homes without you know a mom and dad this kind without you know a mom and dad this kind without you know a mom and dad this kind of thing and I had been exposed to a lot of thing and I had been exposed to a lot of thing and I had been exposed to a lot already you know that one of the already you know that one of the already you know that one of the beautiful things about skateboarding at beautiful things about skateboarding at beautiful things about skateboarding at least back then it's different now is least back then it's different now is least back then it's different now is that it was completely self-organized so
27:00that it was completely self-organized so that it was completely self-organized so whenever I could I would get a ride with whenever I could I would get a ride with whenever I could I would get a ride with a friend or take the bus up to San a friend or take the bus up to San a friend or take the bus up to San Francisco there was this now Francisco there was this now Francisco there was this now famous/infamous scene the embarc Arrow famous/infamous scene the embarc Arrow famous/infamous scene the embarc Arrow Plaza called EM was this kind of Plaza called EM was this kind of Plaza called EM was this kind of self-organized self-organized self-organized place. You have these in major cities place. You have these in major cities place. You have these in major cities elsewhere. There was Love Park in elsewhere. There was Love Park in elsewhere. There was Love Park in Philadelphia, you Washington Square Park Philadelphia, you Washington Square Park Philadelphia, you Washington Square Park in New York. And back then, I learned a in New York. And back then, I learned a in New York. And back then, I learned a lot from the older, it was mostly guys lot from the older, it was mostly guys lot from the older, it was mostly guys then. Now there's more women in then. Now there's more women in then. Now there's more women in skateboarding, girls and women in skateboarding, girls and women in skateboarding, girls and women in skateboarding, and they rip. They're so skateboarding, and they rip. They're so skateboarding, and they rip. They're so good. But um back then it was mostly good. But um back then it was mostly good. But um back then it was mostly guys. And so I learned all sorts of guys. And so I learned all sorts of guys. And so I learned all sorts of things there. Some of which, you know, things there. Some of which, you know, things there. Some of which, you know, was far too young to learn. I got was far too young to learn. I got was far too young to learn. I got basically a street education basically a street education basically a street education >> um from kids that weren't going to >> um from kids that weren't going to >> um from kids that weren't going to school and who were kind of just like school and who were kind of just like school and who were kind of just like living this wild free life. And I do living this wild free life. And I do living this wild free life. And I do want to be clear that even though there want to be clear that even though there want to be clear that even though there were let's call them unoured elements, were let's call them unoured elements, were let's call them unoured elements, there was also a lot an incredible there was also a lot an incredible there was also a lot an incredible beauty and like you know my friend Jake beauty and like you know my friend Jake beauty and like you know my friend Jake Rosenberg Rosenberg Rosenberg started going up there as well. He had started going up there as well. He had started going up there as well. He had his own challenges that I only learned his own challenges that I only learned his own challenges that I only learned about later. Um and he brought a video
28:00about later. Um and he brought a video about later. Um and he brought a video camera video. He started filming the now camera video. He started filming the now camera video. He started filming the now like just like truly iconic videos of like just like truly iconic videos of like just like truly iconic videos of Mike Carroll. These names will mean Mike Carroll. These names will mean Mike Carroll. These names will mean things to Henry Sanchez, like Mark things to Henry Sanchez, like Mark things to Henry Sanchez, like Mark Gonzalez, like he so he just started Gonzalez, like he so he just started Gonzalez, like he so he just started filming all this and then he made the filming all this and then he made the filming all this and then he made the first Plan B videos and he made the first Plan B videos and he made the first Plan B videos and he made the Waiting for Lightning documentary about Waiting for Lightning documentary about Waiting for Lightning documentary about Danny Wei, like jumping the Great Wall Danny Wei, like jumping the Great Wall Danny Wei, like jumping the Great Wall of China. And our friend Mike Blach, of China. And our friend Mike Blach, of China. And our friend Mike Blach, who's the photographer for the Hubberman who's the photographer for the Hubberman who's the photographer for the Hubberman Lab podcast of all things, who became Lab podcast of all things, who became Lab podcast of all things, who became one of the most iconic action sports one of the most iconic action sports one of the most iconic action sports portrait photographers, was a kid who portrait photographers, was a kid who portrait photographers, was a kid who basically drove out from Michigan. I basically drove out from Michigan. I basically drove out from Michigan. I don't even know if he graduated high don't even know if he graduated high don't even know if he graduated high school, something. He probably did. And school, something. He probably did. And school, something. He probably did. And then he slept in the clothing stacks at then he slept in the clothing stacks at then he slept in the clothing stacks at the Gap store, hung out in Badero, and the Gap store, hung out in Badero, and the Gap store, hung out in Badero, and took photos. And those photos and those took photos. And those photos and those took photos. And those photos and those videos that Mike and Jacob and other videos that Mike and Jacob and other videos that Mike and Jacob and other people took are now iconic in people took are now iconic in people took are now iconic in skateboarding. And so I was also exposed skateboarding. And so I was also exposed skateboarding. And so I was also exposed to this incredible world of DIY like to this incredible world of DIY like to this incredible world of DIY like like take your passion, take your like take your passion, take your like take your passion, take your circumstance and pick a craft and just
29:00circumstance and pick a craft and just circumstance and pick a craft and just document stuff. And so in many ways like document stuff. And so in many ways like document stuff. And so in many ways like what happened at Embaradero, what what happened at Embaradero, what what happened at Embaradero, what happened in skateboarding and I always happened in skateboarding and I always happened in skateboarding and I always love punk rock music and going to shows. love punk rock music and going to shows. love punk rock music and going to shows. I have no musical talent and I I didn't I have no musical talent and I I didn't I have no musical talent and I I didn't suck at skateboarding but I wasn't going suck at skateboarding but I wasn't going suck at skateboarding but I wasn't going to go anywhere with it. But the what I to go anywhere with it. But the what I to go anywhere with it. But the what I saw was if you love something and you saw was if you love something and you saw was if you love something and you want to learn as much as possible about want to learn as much as possible about want to learn as much as possible about it and you love the culture around it, it and you love the culture around it, it and you love the culture around it, you do have to learn how to sort out the you do have to learn how to sort out the you do have to learn how to sort out the untored elements. Don't get yourself untored elements. Don't get yourself untored elements. Don't get yourself into trouble. But you take that energy into trouble. But you take that energy into trouble. But you take that energy and I just took it to academics. I and I just took it to academics. I and I just took it to academics. I remember realizing when I got to remember realizing when I got to remember realizing when I got to graduate school, I found a wonderful lab graduate school, I found a wonderful lab graduate school, I found a wonderful lab to work in with a wonderful woman named to work in with a wonderful woman named to work in with a wonderful woman named Barbara Chapman. Unfortunately, she Barbara Chapman. Unfortunately, she Barbara Chapman. Unfortunately, she passed away. And at the time, she said, passed away. And at the time, she said, passed away. And at the time, she said, "Listen, I'm going to have a couple "Listen, I'm going to have a couple "Listen, I'm going to have a couple kids, but we have grants. you can. So, kids, but we have grants. you can. So, kids, but we have grants. you can. So, she said, "I'm going to have a couple she said, "I'm going to have a couple she said, "I'm going to have a couple kids, so I'm going to be very busy, but kids, so I'm going to be very busy, but kids, so I'm going to be very busy, but we have grants and here's the lab." She we have grants and here's the lab." She we have grants and here's the lab." She said, "Don't burn the lab down. Don't said, "Don't burn the lab down. Don't said, "Don't burn the lab down. Don't hurt yourself, but just do experiments, hurt yourself, but just do experiments, hurt yourself, but just do experiments, have fun." And I realized, I was like, have fun." And I realized, I was like, have fun." And I realized, I was like, "This is the best." And I had so much "This is the best." And I had so much "This is the best." And I had so much energy and I thought, "I never have to energy and I thought, "I never have to energy and I thought, "I never have to go home." So, I lived there a lot of the go home." So, I lived there a lot of the go home." So, I lived there a lot of the time, brush my teeth in the sink there, time, brush my teeth in the sink there, time, brush my teeth in the sink there, work out at the gym, shower, come back.
30:00work out at the gym, shower, come back. work out at the gym, shower, come back. And I remember people saying, "You're And I remember people saying, "You're And I remember people saying, "You're going to burn out. What are you doing?" going to burn out. What are you doing?" going to burn out. What are you doing?" And I'm like, "What are you talking And I'm like, "What are you talking And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And I would work 80, sometimes about?" And I would work 80, sometimes about?" And I would work 80, sometimes 100 hours a week. I was so happy. And I 100 hours a week. I was so happy. And I 100 hours a week. I was so happy. And I realized like this is the exact same realized like this is the exact same realized like this is the exact same feeling. I'm just taking my interest and feeling. I'm just taking my interest and feeling. I'm just taking my interest and I'm just pouring myself into. I did that I'm just pouring myself into. I did that I'm just pouring myself into. I did that when I was a graduate student. I did it when I was a graduate student. I did it when I was a graduate student. I did it when I was a posttock. And actually when when I was a posttock. And actually when when I was a posttock. And actually when I was a posttock I started writing some I was a posttock I started writing some I was a posttock I started writing some music um articles for Thrasher magazine. music um articles for Thrasher magazine. music um articles for Thrasher magazine. I've always kept some little tie to the I've always kept some little tie to the I've always kept some little tie to the skateboarding industry that way just to skateboarding industry that way just to skateboarding industry that way just to make some extra cash. And then when I make some extra cash. And then when I make some extra cash. And then when I was a junior professor I had to really was a junior professor I had to really was a junior professor I had to really pour myself just into the laboratory but pour myself just into the laboratory but pour myself just into the laboratory but it still worked out. And I guess the it still worked out. And I guess the it still worked out. And I guess the point is that you know earlier you and I point is that you know earlier you and I point is that you know earlier you and I were talking about if you have and I'm were talking about if you have and I'm were talking about if you have and I'm borrowing this phrase from one of my borrowing this phrase from one of my borrowing this phrase from one of my heroes Martha Beck um who's a wonderful heroes Martha Beck um who's a wonderful heroes Martha Beck um who's a wonderful person and teacher such wisdom and she person and teacher such wisdom and she person and teacher such wisdom and she calls it a um interestbased attention calls it a um interestbased attention calls it a um interestbased attention system. Mhm. system. Mhm. system. Mhm. >> Some people [clears throat] might call >> Some people [clears throat] might call >> Some people [clears throat] might call it ADHD, but have you ever noticed that it ADHD, but have you ever noticed that it ADHD, but have you ever noticed that even people, and we know this from the even people, and we know this from the even people, and we know this from the scientific literature, people, kids, scientific literature, people, kids, scientific literature, people, kids, adults with ADHD, when they're in
31:00adults with ADHD, when they're in adults with ADHD, when they're in so-called ADHD, so-called ADHD, so-called ADHD, when they are doing something they when they are doing something they when they are doing something they really love, they're like a laser. really love, they're like a laser. really love, they're like a laser. They're not going to peel off that. They're not going to peel off that. They're not going to peel off that. Their attention is like level 11 out of Their attention is like level 11 out of Their attention is like level 11 out of 10. So, I took that energy that I've 10. So, I took that energy that I've 10. So, I took that energy that I've always had in me for fish, for tropical always had in me for fish, for tropical always had in me for fish, for tropical birds, skateboarding, punk rock music. birds, skateboarding, punk rock music. birds, skateboarding, punk rock music. eventually it was biology and I just eventually it was biology and I just eventually it was biology and I just went okay here are my chips I'm all in went okay here are my chips I'm all in went okay here are my chips I'm all in all in but the goal has always been and all in but the goal has always been and all in but the goal has always been and remains to take what I learn and share remains to take what I learn and share remains to take what I learn and share it because the real joy in doing it because the real joy in doing it because the real joy in doing anything for me anyway is the ability to anything for me anyway is the ability to anything for me anyway is the ability to share in that knowledge or in that share in that knowledge or in that share in that knowledge or in that experience and so um those early years experience and so um those early years experience and so um those early years were really choppy and really dangerous were really choppy and really dangerous were really choppy and really dangerous you know frankly but then when I started you know frankly but then when I started you know frankly but then when I started a laboratory and decided a laboratory and decided a laboratory and decided Hey, I'm going to study human stress. Hey, I'm going to study human stress. Hey, I'm going to study human stress. Let's go get VR of stressful Let's go get VR of stressful Let's go get VR of stressful circumstances. And my friend Michael circumstances. And my friend Michael circumstances. And my friend Michael Mueller, who's a very accomplished Mueller, who's a very accomplished Mueller, who's a very accomplished portrait photographer in Hollywood and
32:00portrait photographer in Hollywood and portrait photographer in Hollywood and also takes photos of great white sharks also takes photos of great white sharks also takes photos of great white sharks out of cages, he said to me, "Oh, you out of cages, he said to me, "Oh, you out of cages, he said to me, "Oh, you know, your VR stimulus in your lab, um, know, your VR stimulus in your lab, um, know, your VR stimulus in your lab, um, here's what he told me. He's like, "It here's what he told me. He's like, "It here's what he told me. He's like, "It sucks." He said, "It sucks. It doesn't sucks." He said, "It sucks. It doesn't sucks." He said, "It sucks. It doesn't look real. It's all CGI. It's not scary look real. It's all CGI. It's not scary look real. It's all CGI. It's not scary at all. how about we, you know, go film at all. how about we, you know, go film at all. how about we, you know, go film some great white sharks down in some great white sharks down in some great white sharks down in Guadalupe Island and we leave the cage. Guadalupe Island and we leave the cage. Guadalupe Island and we leave the cage. And, you know, the the young Andrew was And, you know, the the young Andrew was And, you know, the the young Andrew was like, "Okay." So, got dive certified, like, "Okay." So, got dive certified, like, "Okay." So, got dive certified, went and did it one year, stayed in the went and did it one year, stayed in the went and did it one year, stayed in the cage, went the next year, exited the cage, went the next year, exited the cage, went the next year, exited the cage. I'm not recommending people live cage. I'm not recommending people live cage. I'm not recommending people live this way. I'm not because I had an air this way. I'm not because I had an air this way. I'm not because I had an air failure at depth the second year while I failure at depth the second year while I failure at depth the second year while I was in the cage. I bailed out. I made was in the cage. I bailed out. I made was in the cage. I bailed out. I made it. I lived, but it was super scary and it. I lived, but it was super scary and it. I lived, but it was super scary and it was not an experience I want to it was not an experience I want to it was not an experience I want to repeat. And I realized, you know, that's repeat. And I realized, you know, that's repeat. And I realized, you know, that's the line like I, you know, the great the line like I, you know, the great the line like I, you know, the great Oliver Saxs, another hero of mine, Oliver Saxs, another hero of mine, Oliver Saxs, another hero of mine, British trained neurologist and and British trained neurologist and and British trained neurologist and and author. He wrote uh was basically what author. He wrote uh was basically what author. He wrote uh was basically what became the script for awakenings and became the script for awakenings and became the script for awakenings and things like that. Um there's a quote
33:00things like that. Um there's a quote things like that. Um there's a quote about him that resonates a lot and the about him that resonates a lot and the about him that resonates a lot and the quote I think is you know uh an early quote I think is you know uh an early quote I think is you know uh an early teacher of his said Oliver will go far teacher of his said Oliver will go far teacher of his said Oliver will go far provided he does not go too far. provided he does not go too far. provided he does not go too far. [laughter] And so, you know, you have to [laughter] And so, you know, you have to [laughter] And so, you know, you have to be careful, right? These adventures, be careful, right? These adventures, be careful, right? These adventures, leaving school, doing, you can't be leaving school, doing, you can't be leaving school, doing, you can't be half-hazard about it. So, if you look at half-hazard about it. So, if you look at half-hazard about it. So, if you look at the broad arc, it's highly nonlinear. the broad arc, it's highly nonlinear. the broad arc, it's highly nonlinear. But there's a common thread through all But there's a common thread through all But there's a common thread through all of it, which is this desire to learn, of it, which is this desire to learn, of it, which is this desire to learn, curiosity, curiosity, curiosity, desire to share, intensity. desire to share, intensity. desire to share, intensity. And when I'm involved in any one thing, And when I'm involved in any one thing, And when I'm involved in any one thing, and I recommend that if people are and I recommend that if people are and I recommend that if people are involved in any one thing, if it's involved in any one thing, if it's involved in any one thing, if it's podcasting or sport or video games or podcasting or sport or video games or podcasting or sport or video games or math or AI or program, whatever it is, math or AI or program, whatever it is, math or AI or program, whatever it is, skateboarding, whatever it is, that you skateboarding, whatever it is, that you skateboarding, whatever it is, that you can't be haphazard in that world because can't be haphazard in that world because can't be haphazard in that world because forward progress, even if you change forward progress, even if you change forward progress, even if you change things over time, is the consequence of things over time, is the consequence of things over time, is the consequence of taking that inherent uniqueness that we taking that inherent uniqueness that we taking that inherent uniqueness that we each have and whatever level of each have and whatever level of each have and whatever level of intensity we have and making sure that intensity we have and making sure that intensity we have and making sure that you, you know, do take steps forward.
34:00you, you know, do take steps forward. you, you know, do take steps forward. forward. And there are what I've learned forward. And there are what I've learned forward. And there are what I've learned is as a child, as an adolescent, and as is as a child, as an adolescent, and as is as a child, as an adolescent, and as an adult, there are all these traps an adult, there are all these traps an adult, there are all these traps along the way. There are all these along the way. There are all these along the way. There are all these shoots down to failure and destruction, shoots down to failure and destruction, shoots down to failure and destruction, and you have to be very, very and you have to be very, very and you have to be very, very thoughtful. And so, you can't be thoughtful. And so, you can't be thoughtful. And so, you can't be reckless. [snorts] reckless. [snorts] reckless. [snorts] >> I'm really compelled as well by the >> I'm really compelled as well by the >> I'm really compelled as well by the letter you sent to your parents. letter you sent to your parents. letter you sent to your parents. >> Yeah, they they must have been very >> Yeah, they they must have been very >> Yeah, they they must have been very surprised. That letter was written in a surprised. That letter was written in a surprised. That letter was written in a house on a little street in a little house on a little street in a little house on a little street in a little town called Isa Vista on Pado Street town called Isa Vista on Pado Street town called Isa Vista on Pado Street where I'd essentially been squatting for where I'd essentially been squatting for where I'd essentially been squatting for the summer with my ferret. That was the the summer with my ferret. That was the the summer with my ferret. That was the I tell you that because that was the I tell you that because that was the I tell you that because that was the picture. I had a ferret. Her name was picture. I had a ferret. Her name was picture. I had a ferret. Her name was Iris that my first girlfriend who had Iris that my first girlfriend who had Iris that my first girlfriend who had left me by then cuz she was smart left me by then cuz she was smart left me by then cuz she was smart because I had nothing going on. Um because I had nothing going on. Um because I had nothing going on. Um we were me and Iris were living we were me and Iris were living we were me and Iris were living together. I didn't even have a bed in together. I didn't even have a bed in together. I didn't even have a bed in the place. I thought, well, why pay the place. I thought, well, why pay the place. I thought, well, why pay rent, you know, like no one in like rent, you know, like no one in like rent, you know, like no one in like where I had grown up with all these like where I had grown up with all these like where I had grown up with all these like like riff raff kids. Now, the town, to like riff raff kids. Now, the town, to like riff raff kids. Now, the town, to be clear, the town I grew up in, Palo be clear, the town I grew up in, Palo be clear, the town I grew up in, Palo Alto, now is known as like one of the Alto, now is known as like one of the Alto, now is known as like one of the wealthiest places. At that time, I was wealthiest places. At that time, I was wealthiest places. At that time, I was like kind of upper middle class, but
35:00like kind of upper middle class, but like kind of upper middle class, but when I say like riff raff kids, I mean when I say like riff raff kids, I mean when I say like riff raff kids, I mean like the people that congregated around like the people that congregated around like the people that congregated around skateboarding in the late ' 80s, early skateboarding in the late ' 80s, early skateboarding in the late ' 80s, early 90s were the kind of like parentless 90s were the kind of like parentless 90s were the kind of like parentless feral types. So, I learned a lot. I feral types. So, I learned a lot. I feral types. So, I learned a lot. I learned I can sleep mummy style anywhere learned I can sleep mummy style anywhere learned I can sleep mummy style anywhere in a car, in a van, in a corner. So, in a car, in a van, in a corner. So, in a car, in a van, in a corner. So, like, why pay rent that summer? I'd have like, why pay rent that summer? I'd have like, why pay rent that summer? I'd have more money to keep and save if I just more money to keep and save if I just more money to keep and save if I just like got a pillow and a couple blankets like got a pillow and a couple blankets like got a pillow and a couple blankets and a sleeping bag and this little and a sleeping bag and this little and a sleeping bag and this little place. I was living there with my place. I was living there with my place. I was living there with my ferret. And I came back from that fight ferret. And I came back from that fight ferret. And I came back from that fight on July 4th and I thought, okay, like on July 4th and I thought, okay, like on July 4th and I thought, okay, like this is it. And I think it was by the this is it. And I think it was by the this is it. And I think it was by the end of the weekend, I had written out end of the weekend, I had written out end of the weekend, I had written out this letter that said essentially this letter that said essentially this letter that said essentially the following. It said, "Look, I don't the following. It said, "Look, I don't the following. It said, "Look, I don't know why you guys decided to just know why you guys decided to just know why you guys decided to just fracture everything." I understood why fracture everything." I understood why fracture everything." I understood why my parents didn't want to be together. my parents didn't want to be together. my parents didn't want to be together. They were incompatible. By the way, They were incompatible. By the way, They were incompatible. By the way, they're both happily married now to they're both happily married now to they're both happily married now to wonderful people for many years. So, wonderful people for many years. So, wonderful people for many years. So, there there's a happy ending there. But there there's a happy ending there. But there there's a happy ending there. But at the time, I was very confused. It at the time, I was very confused. It at the time, I was very confused. It wasn't that I needed them to be wasn't that I needed them to be wasn't that I needed them to be together, but the level of friction in
36:00together, but the level of friction in together, but the level of friction in their separation was just like it I felt their separation was just like it I felt their separation was just like it I felt like a lot of it fell on me and and like a lot of it fell on me and and like a lot of it fell on me and and there are reasons for that. But there are reasons for that. But there are reasons for that. But I basically forgave them. I basically I basically forgave them. I basically I basically forgave them. I basically said, "Listen, I forgive you. Um, I said, "Listen, I forgive you. Um, I said, "Listen, I forgive you. Um, I realized that I need to take control of realized that I need to take control of realized that I need to take control of my life." I was 18, so I'm a fall baby. my life." I was 18, so I'm a fall baby. my life." I was 18, so I'm a fall baby. So, it was like I was almost 19. So, it was like I was almost 19. So, it was like I was almost 19. I'm, you know, 18 years old, 19 years I'm, you know, 18 years old, 19 years I'm, you know, 18 years old, 19 years old and I need to do something with my old and I need to do something with my old and I need to do something with my life and the only way I'm going to do life and the only way I'm going to do life and the only way I'm going to do that is by getting super focused and that is by getting super focused and that is by getting super focused and super organized. So, I somehow had the super organized. So, I somehow had the super organized. So, I somehow had the the idea to externalize this and then I the idea to externalize this and then I the idea to externalize this and then I wrote essentially the same letter to wrote essentially the same letter to wrote essentially the same letter to myself and then I just as my girlfriend myself and then I just as my girlfriend myself and then I just as my girlfriend who eventually got back together with who eventually got back together with who eventually got back together with me, that was interesting. As soon as I me, that was interesting. As soon as I me, that was interesting. As soon as I started working hard in school, I'll started working hard in school, I'll started working hard in school, I'll never forget what she said. We're still never forget what she said. We're still never forget what she said. We're still friendly. She's married with her own friendly. She's married with her own friendly. She's married with her own family and they have a a beautiful family and they have a a beautiful family and they have a a beautiful family. But every once in a while I'll family. But every once in a while I'll family. But every once in a while I'll hear from her and I will never forget hear from her and I will never forget
37:00hear from her and I will never forget what she said to me about a year later what she said to me about a year later what she said to me about a year later when I was just absolutely rabid about when I was just absolutely rabid about when I was just absolutely rabid about learning. She said, "Um, you know, learning. She said, "Um, you know, learning. She said, "Um, you know, you've become a monster." And I was you've become a monster." And I was you've become a monster." And I was like, "A monster?" And she's like, like, "A monster?" And she's like, like, "A monster?" And she's like, "Yeah, a monster of learning and class "Yeah, a monster of learning and class "Yeah, a monster of learning and class and getting up early and you tuck your and getting up early and you tuck your and getting up early and you tuck your shirt in." Like I got into this whole shirt in." Like I got into this whole shirt in." Like I got into this whole thing of like dressing the opposite of thing of like dressing the opposite of thing of like dressing the opposite of everyone else that lived in that little everyone else that lived in that little everyone else that lived in that little town. It's a little beach town. Everyone town. It's a little beach town. Everyone town. It's a little beach town. Everyone wore flip-flops, rode beach cruisers at wore flip-flops, rode beach cruisers at wore flip-flops, rode beach cruisers at that time. It was like baggy shorts, that time. It was like baggy shorts, that time. It was like baggy shorts, long t-shirts. And I started tucking in long t-shirts. And I started tucking in long t-shirts. And I started tucking in my shirt, a belt. I would get like all my shirt, a belt. I would get like all my shirt, a belt. I would get like all like, you know, like cleaned up and I' like, you know, like cleaned up and I' like, you know, like cleaned up and I' and I'd go to class and people like, and I'd go to class and people like, and I'd go to class and people like, "What is wrong with this guy?" I just "What is wrong with this guy?" I just "What is wrong with this guy?" I just wanted to go completely against the wanted to go completely against the wanted to go completely against the grain and just be as disciplined and grain and just be as disciplined and grain and just be as disciplined and organized as possible. And I basically organized as possible. And I basically organized as possible. And I basically was parenting myself. And I think that was parenting myself. And I think that was parenting myself. And I think that this is something that I learned how to this is something that I learned how to this is something that I learned how to do early on. I love my parents, but I do early on. I love my parents, but I do early on. I love my parents, but I learned how to mother and father myself. learned how to mother and father myself. learned how to mother and father myself. And that was powerful. It was like I was And that was powerful. It was like I was And that was powerful. It was like I was a young guy. Um, but let's face it, you a young guy. Um, but let's face it, you a young guy. Um, but let's face it, you know, at 19 you're young, but you're not know, at 19 you're young, but you're not know, at 19 you're young, but you're not that young in the sense that if you that young in the sense that if you that young in the sense that if you screw up, you know, if you, you know, I
38:00screw up, you know, if you, you know, I screw up, you know, if you, you know, I don't know, I had friends who got into don't know, I had friends who got into don't know, I had friends who got into drunk driving stuff. A friend of ours drunk driving stuff. A friend of ours drunk driving stuff. A friend of ours was killed in a drunk driving accident. was killed in a drunk driving accident. was killed in a drunk driving accident. Um, I wasn't real close with them, but I Um, I wasn't real close with them, but I Um, I wasn't real close with them, but I knew him real well. This guy Phil Shia, knew him real well. This guy Phil Shia, knew him real well. This guy Phil Shia, great skateboarder, was killed because great skateboarder, was killed because great skateboarder, was killed because someone drove drunk. He wasn't driving someone drove drunk. He wasn't driving someone drove drunk. He wasn't driving drunk, dead. Bunch of people dead or in drunk, dead. Bunch of people dead or in drunk, dead. Bunch of people dead or in jail. So, you know, when you're 18 or jail. So, you know, when you're 18 or jail. So, you know, when you're 18 or older, like the consequences go super older, like the consequences go super older, like the consequences go super super linear, you know, shift. Um, where super linear, you know, shift. Um, where super linear, you know, shift. Um, where small mistakes can lead to really bad small mistakes can lead to really bad small mistakes can lead to really bad outcomes. So, yeah, I just kind of outcomes. So, yeah, I just kind of outcomes. So, yeah, I just kind of scruffed myself and was like, let's do scruffed myself and was like, let's do scruffed myself and was like, let's do this. And, you know, here I am. this. And, you know, here I am. this. And, you know, here I am. >> I'm so intrigued by that because in that >> I'm so intrigued by that because in that >> I'm so intrigued by that because in that moment, you have, I think, a moment in moment, you have, I think, a moment in moment, you have, I think, a moment in which a lot of people are searching for which a lot of people are searching for which a lot of people are searching for in their lives where you have a you have in their lives where you have a you have in their lives where you have a you have a decision to do it differently. And a decision to do it differently. And a decision to do it differently. And I've always wondered what it takes for I've always wondered what it takes for I've always wondered what it takes for someone to get there. And is it someone to get there. And is it someone to get there. And is it something that you can accelerate something that you can accelerate something that you can accelerate towards? Like is there if I am laying on towards? Like is there if I am laying on towards? Like is there if I am laying on the couch right now and I'm feeling the couch right now and I'm feeling the couch right now and I'm feeling that, is there something I can do to get that, is there something I can do to get that, is there something I can do to get me there or do I need more pain? me there or do I need more pain? me there or do I need more pain? >> Fear. >> Fear. >> Fear. >> Fear. I'll tell you, super scary being
39:00>> Fear. I'll tell you, super scary being >> Fear. I'll tell you, super scary being like almost 19 years old. Girlfriend like almost 19 years old. Girlfriend like almost 19 years old. Girlfriend left me. I'm not good at anything. I left me. I'm not good at anything. I left me. I'm not good at anything. I wasn't good at anything. Not wasn't good at anything. Not wasn't good at anything. Not skateboarding. Couldn't play an skateboarding. Couldn't play an skateboarding. Couldn't play an instrument. Everyone in that town instrument. Everyone in that town instrument. Everyone in that town surfed. Um surfed. Um surfed. Um >> family >> family >> family >> family I mean I didn't Yeah I could have >> family I mean I didn't Yeah I could have >> family I mean I didn't Yeah I could have gone to the fire service and that's a gone to the fire service and that's a gone to the fire service and that's a wonderful career path. Um wonderful career path. Um wonderful career path. Um yeah I didn't I didn't have any like yeah I didn't I didn't have any like yeah I didn't I didn't have any like marketable skills. I couldn't really do marketable skills. I couldn't really do marketable skills. I couldn't really do anything except I knew my capacity to anything except I knew my capacity to anything except I knew my capacity to learn. I've always had a very good learn. I've always had a very good learn. I've always had a very good memory and I've always enjoyed learning. memory and I've always enjoyed learning. memory and I've always enjoyed learning. So I thought okay school seems like a So I thought okay school seems like a So I thought okay school seems like a good option. They tell you what you need good option. They tell you what you need good option. They tell you what you need to know. In fact, at one point I to know. In fact, at one point I to know. In fact, at one point I realized and I think it was Ryan realized and I think it was Ryan realized and I think it was Ryan Holidayiday that said that you know the Holidayiday that said that you know the Holidayiday that said that you know the people who should absolutely not drop people who should absolutely not drop people who should absolutely not drop out of college are the people who are out of college are the people who are out of college are the people who are not doing well because the real world is not doing well because the real world is not doing well because the real world is a lot harder in many ways. It's a lot a lot harder in many ways. It's a lot a lot harder in many ways. It's a lot harder than college. In college they harder than college. In college they harder than college. In college they tell they tell you what to do. I tell they tell you what to do. I tell they tell you what to do. I remember taking a class in Greek remember taking a class in Greek remember taking a class in Greek mythology. You go there if you sit near
40:00mythology. You go there if you sit near mythology. You go there if you sit near the front you pay attention. You try not the front you pay attention. You try not the front you pay attention. You try not to pay attention to anyone else. You sit to pay attention to anyone else. You sit to pay attention to anyone else. You sit down they tell you what you need to down they tell you what you need to down they tell you what you need to know. Now sometimes it's complicated. know. Now sometimes it's complicated. know. Now sometimes it's complicated. You can't keep up. Then they have these You can't keep up. Then they have these You can't keep up. Then they have these things called office hours where you can things called office hours where you can things called office hours where you can ask, they have teaching assistants. I ask, they have teaching assistants. I ask, they have teaching assistants. I mean, the whole thing is set up so that mean, the whole thing is set up so that mean, the whole thing is set up so that you almost can't fail if you do the you almost can't fail if you do the you almost can't fail if you do the required steps. Whereas with required steps. Whereas with required steps. Whereas with skateboarding, it's like I was always skateboarding, it's like I was always skateboarding, it's like I was always getting broke off as they say, you know, getting broke off as they say, you know, getting broke off as they say, you know, I was always rolling my left foot, I was always rolling my left foot, I was always rolling my left foot, snapped again, uh, nothing. Couldn't do snapped again, uh, nothing. Couldn't do snapped again, uh, nothing. Couldn't do it. Um, there's so much uncertainty in it. Um, there's so much uncertainty in it. Um, there's so much uncertainty in other things, at least with a college other things, at least with a college other things, at least with a college education. For me, it was like, okay, I education. For me, it was like, okay, I education. For me, it was like, okay, I can I can learn this stuff. And then can I can learn this stuff. And then can I can learn this stuff. And then what I found is when there's a desire to what I found is when there's a desire to what I found is when there's a desire to learn and then you learn and then you do learn and then you learn and then you do learn and then you learn and then you do well and I started doing very well. Um well and I started doing very well. Um well and I started doing very well. Um and but there's that one class that I and but there's that one class that I and but there's that one class that I got a B+ in that I'm still pissed off got a B+ in that I'm still pissed off got a B+ in that I'm still pissed off about. You know, my first year was this about. You know, my first year was this about. You know, my first year was this disaster. Then it was all A's and then disaster. Then it was all A's and then disaster. Then it was all A's and then there's this one class in neural there's this one class in neural there's this one class in neural development from Ben Ree and I got a B+
41:00development from Ben Ree and I got a B+ development from Ben Ree and I got a B+ and as a consequence when I went to and as a consequence when I went to and as a consequence when I went to graduate school I studied neural graduate school I studied neural graduate school I studied neural development. You know it's the thing development. You know it's the thing development. You know it's the thing that you don't get the the place where that you don't get the the place where that you don't get the the place where you make an error that you forever carry you make an error that you forever carry you make an error that you forever carry that signal. I need to get better at that signal. I need to get better at that signal. I need to get better at that. So I think a lot of it is just that. So I think a lot of it is just that. So I think a lot of it is just having the the knowledge of self, right? having the the knowledge of self, right? having the the knowledge of self, right? What did the oracle say? Know thyself. What did the oracle say? Know thyself. What did the oracle say? Know thyself. the knowledge of self to really think the knowledge of self to really think the knowledge of self to really think okay like what are my strengths do I okay like what are my strengths do I okay like what are my strengths do I like to learn if I'm interested in like to learn if I'm interested in like to learn if I'm interested in something do I have a voracious appetite something do I have a voracious appetite something do I have a voracious appetite maybe if you're a person with less maybe if you're a person with less maybe if you're a person with less energy um maybe uh you're more energy um maybe uh you're more energy um maybe uh you're more reflective or you like to journal or you reflective or you like to journal or you reflective or you like to journal or you need more time to process I think need more time to process I think need more time to process I think turning what often appear as weaknesses turning what often appear as weaknesses turning what often appear as weaknesses into strengths is really possible and into strengths is really possible and into strengths is really possible and then I do think that we are all each then I do think that we are all each then I do think that we are all each endowed with some unique gift I really endowed with some unique gift I really endowed with some unique gift I really believe in this um it's not mystical for believe in this um it's not mystical for believe in this um it's not mystical for me I think that we all have some wiring me I think that we all have some wiring me I think that we all have some wiring of our brains that's very similar and we of our brains that's very similar and we of our brains that's very similar and we all have some unique wiring based on our all have some unique wiring based on our all have some unique wiring based on our genetics and our experience. And I just
42:00genetics and our experience. And I just genetics and our experience. And I just thought I'm going to keep paying thought I'm going to keep paying thought I'm going to keep paying attention to what fills my body with attention to what fills my body with attention to what fills my body with energy. energy. energy. >> One of the most inspiring and I think >> One of the most inspiring and I think >> One of the most inspiring and I think liberating things that I've heard in liberating things that I've heard in liberating things that I've heard in your work is this idea of your work is this idea of your work is this idea of neuroplasticity. Because if you're if neuroplasticity. Because if you're if neuroplasticity. Because if you're if the brain can physiologically change the brain can physiologically change the brain can physiologically change based on what I'm doing, then it means based on what I'm doing, then it means based on what I'm doing, then it means that who I am now, my identity, that 16 that who I am now, my identity, that 16 that who I am now, my identity, that 16 that 19-year-old who's sleeping in the that 19-year-old who's sleeping in the that 19-year-old who's sleeping in the mummy thing with the ferret isn't who I mummy thing with the ferret isn't who I mummy thing with the ferret isn't who I always have to be. I can literally always have to be. I can literally always have to be. I can literally change. Um, we've spoken a little bit change. Um, we've spoken a little bit change. Um, we've spoken a little bit around like what causes the motivation around like what causes the motivation around like what causes the motivation to actually change, but knowing that to actually change, but knowing that to actually change, but knowing that there's a my brain will actually change. there's a my brain will actually change. there's a my brain will actually change. Those two things are really inspiring Those two things are really inspiring Those two things are really inspiring for me because it means that whatever for me because it means that whatever for me because it means that whatever rut I'm stuck in isn't necessarily a rut I'm stuck in isn't necessarily a rut I'm stuck in isn't necessarily a permanent one. Now you said that the permanent one. Now you said that the permanent one. Now you said that the motivation to change comes from fear. motivation to change comes from fear. motivation to change comes from fear. >> Well, in my case, it took a a fear >> Well, in my case, it took a a fear >> Well, in my case, it took a a fear circumstance, fear of becoming a circumstance, fear of becoming a circumstance, fear of becoming a permanent failure. permanent failure. permanent failure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To motivate immense change. And um >> To motivate immense change. And um >> To motivate immense change. And um >> uh that was that circumstance. I I do >> uh that was that circumstance. I I do >> uh that was that circumstance. I I do believe however that the best work, our
43:00believe however that the best work, our believe however that the best work, our most creative and best work comes from a most creative and best work comes from a most creative and best work comes from a love of craft. love of craft. love of craft. But sometimes in order to find what you But sometimes in order to find what you But sometimes in order to find what you truly love, you have to be scared into truly love, you have to be scared into truly love, you have to be scared into setting off on a path to find it. setting off on a path to find it. setting off on a path to find it. >> And um >> And um >> And um >> yeah, and and and that goes for >> yeah, and and and that goes for >> yeah, and and and that goes for relationships too. Sometimes to find the relationships too. Sometimes to find the relationships too. Sometimes to find the right relationship um or relationships, right relationship um or relationships, right relationship um or relationships, it could be friendships, romantic it could be friendships, romantic it could be friendships, romantic relationships, etc. One has to be like relationships, etc. One has to be like relationships, etc. One has to be like deathly afraid of having to remain in deathly afraid of having to remain in deathly afraid of having to remain in the the relationship that you're in the the relationship that you're in the the relationship that you're in enough to leave. So neuroplasticity enough to leave. So neuroplasticity enough to leave. So neuroplasticity is absolutely real. Um it actually is absolutely real. Um it actually is absolutely real. Um it actually worked out that my scientific worked out that my scientific worked out that my scientific great-grandparents, two guys, David great-grandparents, two guys, David great-grandparents, two guys, David Hubil and Torston Weasel, won the Nobel Hubil and Torston Weasel, won the Nobel Hubil and Torston Weasel, won the Nobel Prize for no for neuroplasticity. Now Prize for no for neuroplasticity. Now Prize for no for neuroplasticity. Now they weren't the people who discovered they weren't the people who discovered they weren't the people who discovered it. It had actually been described for it. It had actually been described for it. It had actually been described for centuries. People understood that young centuries. People understood that young centuries. People understood that young kids can learn more easily than adults kids can learn more easily than adults kids can learn more easily than adults can. But David and Torston won the Nobel can. But David and Torston won the Nobel can. But David and Torston won the Nobel Prize for essentially formalizing the
44:00Prize for essentially formalizing the Prize for essentially formalizing the and discovering the principles of and discovering the principles of and discovering the principles of neuroplasticity, how it works. And then neuroplasticity, how it works. And then neuroplasticity, how it works. And then some years later, mainly one guy by the some years later, mainly one guy by the some years later, mainly one guy by the name of Mike Merson, but there were name of Mike Merson, but there were name of Mike Merson, but there were others that worked with him discovered others that worked with him discovered others that worked with him discovered that neuroplasticity is actually a that neuroplasticity is actually a that neuroplasticity is actually a feature of the nervous system, the brain feature of the nervous system, the brain feature of the nervous system, the brain throughout our entire lifespan. The throughout our entire lifespan. The throughout our entire lifespan. The rules change a little bit in terms of rules change a little bit in terms of rules change a little bit in terms of how you rewire your brain. But if the how you rewire your brain. But if the how you rewire your brain. But if the question is can a person change, can you question is can a person change, can you question is can a person change, can you learn new things? Can you unlearn learn new things? Can you unlearn learn new things? Can you unlearn certain patterns? Can you overcome certain patterns? Can you overcome certain patterns? Can you overcome traumas at any age? The answer is traumas at any age? The answer is traumas at any age? The answer is absolutely absolutely absolutely categorically yes. How? Well, it's very categorically yes. How? Well, it's very categorically yes. How? Well, it's very clear that as a child until about age clear that as a child until about age clear that as a child until about age 25, more or less, just passive 25, more or less, just passive 25, more or less, just passive experience will shape the brain for experience will shape the brain for experience will shape the brain for better or worse. After about age 25, and better or worse. After about age 25, and better or worse. After about age 25, and again, these are not strict cut offs. again, these are not strict cut offs. again, these are not strict cut offs. We can change our brain but what's We can change our brain but what's We can change our brain but what's required is a marketked shift in the required is a marketked shift in the required is a marketked shift in the neurochemical environment under which neurochemical environment under which neurochemical environment under which something happens. So, one of the
45:00something happens. So, one of the something happens. So, one of the reasons why any traumatic event will reasons why any traumatic event will reasons why any traumatic event will forever be remembered, although by the forever be remembered, although by the forever be remembered, although by the way, you can remove some of the way, you can remove some of the way, you can remove some of the emotional load of that. Trauma does not emotional load of that. Trauma does not emotional load of that. Trauma does not have to be traumatic forever, have to be traumatic forever, have to be traumatic forever, is because when we see or experience is because when we see or experience is because when we see or experience something very intense of a fearful something very intense of a fearful something very intense of a fearful nature, there is the release of certain nature, there is the release of certain nature, there is the release of certain what we call neurom modulators, things what we call neurom modulators, things what we call neurom modulators, things like epinephrine, adrenaline, and other like epinephrine, adrenaline, and other like epinephrine, adrenaline, and other neurom modulators that cause a state neurom modulators that cause a state neurom modulators that cause a state shift in our broad body and brain. And shift in our broad body and brain. And shift in our broad body and brain. And the nervous system recognizes this as the nervous system recognizes this as the nervous system recognizes this as unusual and as a consequence in the unusual and as a consequence in the unusual and as a consequence in the subsequent days there's reordering of subsequent days there's reordering of subsequent days there's reordering of the connections so that the brain can the connections so that the brain can the connections so that the brain can prepare for that event should it happen prepare for that event should it happen prepare for that event should it happen again. This is why we have what's called again. This is why we have what's called again. This is why we have what's called one trial learning. You go to a certain one trial learning. You go to a certain one trial learning. You go to a certain location, something terrible happens location, something terrible happens location, something terrible happens there, you will forever associate that there, you will forever associate that there, you will forever associate that location with something terrible. But location with something terrible. But location with something terrible. But there are tools, therapy and other tools there are tools, therapy and other tools there are tools, therapy and other tools that can allow the emotional load to be that can allow the emotional load to be that can allow the emotional load to be removed from that so that you could go removed from that so that you could go removed from that so that you could go to that location and feel calm, no fear
46:00to that location and feel calm, no fear to that location and feel calm, no fear whatsoever. The good news is you can whatsoever. The good news is you can whatsoever. The good news is you can also learn anything you want to learn also learn anything you want to learn also learn anything you want to learn provided there's a shift in this provided there's a shift in this provided there's a shift in this neurochemical environment. This is why neurochemical environment. This is why neurochemical environment. This is why when we are very interested and focused when we are very interested and focused when we are very interested and focused on something, two of the main on something, two of the main on something, two of the main requirements for neuroplasticity, we requirements for neuroplasticity, we requirements for neuroplasticity, we have to be alert and we have to be have to be alert and we have to be have to be alert and we have to be focused. We can't learn passively as focused. We can't learn passively as focused. We can't learn passively as adults. You can't just play um you know adults. You can't just play um you know adults. You can't just play um you know a a lecture about AI and large language a a lecture about AI and large language a a lecture about AI and large language models or neuroscience in the room and models or neuroscience in the room and models or neuroscience in the room and then it just the knowledge doesn't just then it just the knowledge doesn't just then it just the knowledge doesn't just sink in by osmosis. sink in by osmosis. sink in by osmosis. But if we pay attention and we're alert But if we pay attention and we're alert But if we pay attention and we're alert when we pay attention when we pay attention when we pay attention there's a shift in the neurochemicals there's a shift in the neurochemicals there's a shift in the neurochemicals associated with that attention what we associated with that attention what we associated with that attention what we call the catacolamines. It's three call the catacolamines. It's three call the catacolamines. It's three molecules dopamine, epinephrine and molecules dopamine, epinephrine and molecules dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine. All which cause an norepinephrine. All which cause an norepinephrine. All which cause an increase in alertness. All which cause increase in alertness. All which cause increase in alertness. All which cause an increase in focus. A tightening of an increase in focus. A tightening of an increase in focus. A tightening of our visual field and our auditory field. our visual field and our auditory field. our visual field and our auditory field. So like cones of attention is one way to So like cones of attention is one way to So like cones of attention is one way to think about it. And then it sets in think about it. And then it sets in think about it. And then it sets in motion a bunch of biological processes motion a bunch of biological processes motion a bunch of biological processes such that if we get adequate sleep that
47:00such that if we get adequate sleep that such that if we get adequate sleep that night, maybe the next night as well, night, maybe the next night as well, night, maybe the next night as well, there's reordering of neural connection there's reordering of neural connection there's reordering of neural connection so that that knowledge, that new so that that knowledge, that new so that that knowledge, that new experience is consolidated in your experience is consolidated in your experience is consolidated in your brain. You are forever changed as a brain. You are forever changed as a brain. You are forever changed as a consequence of that experience. So when consequence of that experience. So when consequence of that experience. So when we hear that the brain is constantly we hear that the brain is constantly we hear that the brain is constantly changing, everything that we encounter changing, everything that we encounter changing, everything that we encounter changes our brain, that's not true. Why changes our brain, that's not true. Why changes our brain, that's not true. Why would the brain change unless it needed would the brain change unless it needed would the brain change unless it needed to, right? As a child, the brain is to, right? As a child, the brain is to, right? As a child, the brain is basically a template for change. It's basically a template for change. It's basically a template for change. It's it's trying to understand the it's trying to understand the it's trying to understand the environment and make predictions. And so environment and make predictions. And so environment and make predictions. And so that's true. Neuroplasticity is is a that's true. Neuroplasticity is is a that's true. Neuroplasticity is is a cardinal feature of of childhood and cardinal feature of of childhood and cardinal feature of of childhood and adolescence and the teen years. Just adolescence and the teen years. Just adolescence and the teen years. Just think about the music you listen to when think about the music you listen to when think about the music you listen to when you were a teen. No other music will you were a teen. No other music will you were a teen. No other music will ever have as much significance. And ever have as much significance. And ever have as much significance. And that's because as a teen your body is that's because as a teen your body is that's because as a teen your body is flooded with hormones and neurom flooded with hormones and neurom flooded with hormones and neurom modulators that the amount of meaning modulators that the amount of meaning modulators that the amount of meaning that comes from now seemingly trivial that comes from now seemingly trivial that comes from now seemingly trivial events when you're a teenager or events when you're a teenager or events when you're a teenager or adolescent is immense. That song meant adolescent is immense. That song meant adolescent is immense. That song meant so much and it's because of the so much and it's because of the so much and it's because of the neurochemical meu it creates in you. But neurochemical meu it creates in you. But neurochemical meu it creates in you. But as an adult it takes a stronger stimulus as an adult it takes a stronger stimulus as an adult it takes a stronger stimulus as we say. And if you were to fall in
48:00as we say. And if you were to fall in as we say. And if you were to fall in love as an adult or see something a a love as an adult or see something a a love as an adult or see something a a painting that just strikes you as just painting that just strikes you as just painting that just strikes you as just so unbelievable, yes, then you are so unbelievable, yes, then you are so unbelievable, yes, then you are forever changed. But just going to see a forever changed. But just going to see a forever changed. But just going to see a bunch of paintings at the Met doesn't bunch of paintings at the Met doesn't bunch of paintings at the Met doesn't mean that every single one of those mean that every single one of those mean that every single one of those paintings is forever stamped into your paintings is forever stamped into your paintings is forever stamped into your brain. The the nervous system is very um brain. The the nervous system is very um brain. The the nervous system is very um efficient in that way. It doesn't change efficient in that way. It doesn't change efficient in that way. It doesn't change unless it has to, and it always changes unless it has to, and it always changes unless it has to, and it always changes if it needs to in order to keep you if it needs to in order to keep you if it needs to in order to keep you safe. This is why there's an asymmetric safe. This is why there's an asymmetric safe. This is why there's an asymmetric influence of fear as opposed to um just influence of fear as opposed to um just influence of fear as opposed to um just interest in terms of what will shift our interest in terms of what will shift our interest in terms of what will shift our brain. But it's nice to know that love brain. But it's nice to know that love brain. But it's nice to know that love and excitement and appreciation are very and excitement and appreciation are very and excitement and appreciation are very strong stimuli for changing the brain. strong stimuli for changing the brain. strong stimuli for changing the brain. And um you know I can kind of draw to And um you know I can kind of draw to And um you know I can kind of draw to mind conversations I've had with my good mind conversations I've had with my good mind conversations I've had with my good friend Rick Rubin. I'll get accused of friend Rick Rubin. I'll get accused of friend Rick Rubin. I'll get accused of name dropping, but I'm very fortunate to name dropping, but I'm very fortunate to name dropping, but I'm very fortunate to be close friends with Rick. And Rick be close friends with Rick. And Rick be close friends with Rick. And Rick always talks about, you know, how when
49:00always talks about, you know, how when always talks about, you know, how when you just see and experience something you just see and experience something you just see and experience something and you just have this love for it, it and you just have this love for it, it and you just have this love for it, it changes the brain. He's not a changes the brain. He's not a changes the brain. He's not a neuroscientist, but in many ways he's a neuroscientist, but in many ways he's a neuroscientist, but in many ways he's a neuroscientist. So in any case, you neuroscientist. So in any case, you neuroscientist. So in any case, you absolutely can change your brain, but absolutely can change your brain, but absolutely can change your brain, but you have to pay attention to the thing you have to pay attention to the thing you have to pay attention to the thing you want to incorporate into your brain. you want to incorporate into your brain. you want to incorporate into your brain. You have to be alert while you do that. You have to be alert while you do that. You have to be alert while you do that. And then you absolutely have to go get And then you absolutely have to go get And then you absolutely have to go get some rest because it's during sleep and some rest because it's during sleep and some rest because it's during sleep and during meditative states and during rest during meditative states and during rest during meditative states and during rest that the actual rewiring of the brain that the actual rewiring of the brain that the actual rewiring of the brain occurs. There's a phrase that you can't occurs. There's a phrase that you can't occurs. There's a phrase that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. And I think teach an old dog new tricks. And I think teach an old dog new tricks. And I think as we get older and older, we become as we get older and older, we become as we get older and older, we become stubborn in part because we're very stubborn in part because we're very stubborn in part because we're very comfortable with the way things are and comfortable with the way things are and comfortable with the way things are and routine and whatever, but also I think routine and whatever, but also I think routine and whatever, but also I think we start to believe in this idea that we we start to believe in this idea that we we start to believe in this idea that we can't change. can't change. can't change. >> And that in in and of itself makes it >> And that in in and of itself makes it >> And that in in and of itself makes it harder to change. Are you telling me harder to change. Are you telling me harder to change. Are you telling me that you can teach an old dog new that you can teach an old dog new that you can teach an old dog new tricks? tricks? tricks? >> Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up. >> Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up. >> Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up. Um, let's just destroy that myth now. Um, let's just destroy that myth now. Um, let's just destroy that myth now. You absolutely can teach an old dog or You absolutely can teach an old dog or You absolutely can teach an old dog or human new tricks. We know this. In fact,
50:00human new tricks. We know this. In fact, human new tricks. We know this. In fact, there are studies, incredible studies there are studies, incredible studies there are studies, incredible studies that were done down at the Sulk that were done down at the Sulk that were done down at the Sulk Institute in San Diego showing that even Institute in San Diego showing that even Institute in San Diego showing that even in people who are very in people who are very in people who are very old, right? These are people in their old, right? These are people in their old, right? These are people in their 80s and 90s. You know the human lifespan 80s and 90s. You know the human lifespan 80s and 90s. You know the human lifespan probably maximum human lifespan as we probably maximum human lifespan as we probably maximum human lifespan as we understand it is probably about 120 understand it is probably about 120 understand it is probably about 120 years years years more or less but most people don't make more or less but most people don't make more or less but most people don't make it to 100 but so 80 or 90 is pretty old. it to 100 but so 80 or 90 is pretty old. it to 100 but so 80 or 90 is pretty old. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> There's still the addition of new >> There's still the addition of new >> There's still the addition of new neurons occurring. These people who were neurons occurring. These people who were neurons occurring. These people who were unfortunately dying of terminal cancer I unfortunately dying of terminal cancer I unfortunately dying of terminal cancer I believe but other causes agreed to take believe but other causes agreed to take believe but other causes agreed to take a a dye that actually gets incorporated a a dye that actually gets incorporated a a dye that actually gets incorporated into new neurons and then after they into new neurons and then after they into new neurons and then after they died their brains were um you know died their brains were um you know died their brains were um you know looked at under the microscope and there looked at under the microscope and there looked at under the microscope and there was the addition of new neurons even at was the addition of new neurons even at was the addition of new neurons even at late age. Now I want to be very clear late age. Now I want to be very clear late age. Now I want to be very clear that most of learning is not the that most of learning is not the that most of learning is not the addition of new neurons at least not in addition of new neurons at least not in addition of new neurons at least not in humans. But from everything we know humans. But from everything we know humans. But from everything we know about neuroscience, it's clear that about neuroscience, it's clear that about neuroscience, it's clear that doesn't matter if you're 90 years old,
51:00doesn't matter if you're 90 years old, doesn't matter if you're 90 years old, 70 years old, 50 years old, if you want 70 years old, 50 years old, if you want 70 years old, 50 years old, if you want to learn, you can learn. And that to learn, you can learn. And that to learn, you can learn. And that learning occurs through neuroplasticity, learning occurs through neuroplasticity, learning occurs through neuroplasticity, which is the reordering of neural which is the reordering of neural which is the reordering of neural connections, strengthening of certain connections, strengthening of certain connections, strengthening of certain connections, weakening of others, and in connections, weakening of others, and in connections, weakening of others, and in some rare cases, the addition of new some rare cases, the addition of new some rare cases, the addition of new neurons. But brain change is absolutely neurons. But brain change is absolutely neurons. But brain change is absolutely real at every stage of life. real at every stage of life. real at every stage of life. >> I also wonder about habit formation. So >> I also wonder about habit formation. So >> I also wonder about habit formation. So you said there that some of the more you said there that some of the more you said there that some of the more sort of startling stimuluses like fear sort of startling stimuluses like fear sort of startling stimuluses like fear are great ways and and obsessive sort of are great ways and and obsessive sort of are great ways and and obsessive sort of deep focus are great ways to start deep focus are great ways to start deep focus are great ways to start forming these new behavior patterns. But forming these new behavior patterns. But forming these new behavior patterns. But if I want to break a habit cuz there's if I want to break a habit cuz there's if I want to break a habit cuz there's habits I've got in my life that I've habits I've got in my life that I've habits I've got in my life that I've kind of just told myself are who I am kind of just told myself are who I am kind of just told myself are who I am and accordingly I've just kind of and accordingly I've just kind of and accordingly I've just kind of accepted them. Well, you've been very accepted them. Well, you've been very accepted them. Well, you've been very successful. So, successful. So, successful. So, >> yeah, but even we'd all there's all >> yeah, but even we'd all there's all >> yeah, but even we'd all there's all thing Thank you. But there's many things thing Thank you. But there's many things thing Thank you. But there's many things I'd still I've just accepted it's part I'd still I've just accepted it's part I'd still I've just accepted it's part of who I am. Some of those come from my of who I am. Some of those come from my of who I am. Some of those come from my childhood. So, one of them is that I childhood. So, one of them is that I childhood. So, one of them is that I grew up in a very disorganized home grew up in a very disorganized home grew up in a very disorganized home where like the doors inside my house had where like the doors inside my house had where like the doors inside my house had holes in them and our house there was holes in them and our house there was holes in them and our house there was like some rooms that looked like a
52:00like some rooms that looked like a like some rooms that looked like a hoarder lived there. Just piles and hoarder lived there. Just piles and hoarder lived there. Just piles and piles of stuff to the roof. Um house de piles of stuff to the roof. Um house de piles of stuff to the roof. Um house de demolished in many respects. Like the demolished in many respects. Like the demolished in many respects. Like the back of the garden was 6 foot high. It back of the garden was 6 foot high. It back of the garden was 6 foot high. It was it was a mess. So, I've grown up was it was a mess. So, I've grown up was it was a mess. So, I've grown up with mess and I'm therefore still pretty with mess and I'm therefore still pretty with mess and I'm therefore still pretty messy today. And it's something I've messy today. And it's something I've messy today. And it's something I've always wanted to defeat, but I just always wanted to defeat, but I just always wanted to defeat, but I just sometimes I tell myself, well, it, you sometimes I tell myself, well, it, you sometimes I tell myself, well, it, you know, it was hardwired into me when I know, it was hardwired into me when I know, it was hardwired into me when I was a kid and it it is just who I am. was a kid and it it is just who I am. was a kid and it it is just who I am. And a lot of people go around saying And a lot of people go around saying And a lot of people go around saying that. They've just kind of identified that. They've just kind of identified that. They've just kind of identified with and accepted a certain bad habit is with and accepted a certain bad habit is with and accepted a certain bad habit is part of who they are. Well, I will say part of who they are. Well, I will say part of who they are. Well, I will say that some of the most brilliant people I that some of the most brilliant people I that some of the most brilliant people I know had terribly messy offices, okay? know had terribly messy offices, okay? know had terribly messy offices, okay? >> And they were very internally organized >> And they were very internally organized >> And they were very internally organized people. It was kind of interesting. They people. It was kind of interesting. They people. It was kind of interesting. They were like a laser beam in their ability were like a laser beam in their ability were like a laser beam in their ability to kind of sort through mess. They to kind of sort through mess. They to kind of sort through mess. They didn't see the mess. In fact, my postoc didn't see the mess. In fact, my postoc didn't see the mess. In fact, my postoc adviser who also sadly passed away, an adviser who also sadly passed away, an adviser who also sadly passed away, an incredible human by the name of Ben incredible human by the name of Ben incredible human by the name of Ben Barers, used to walk into his office and Barers, used to walk into his office and Barers, used to walk into his office and there'd just be piles of stuff there'd just be piles of stuff there'd just be piles of stuff everywhere. And I'd say, "Ben, I I think everywhere. And I'd say, "Ben, I I think everywhere. And I'd say, "Ben, I I think we should clean your office." office and
53:00we should clean your office." office and we should clean your office." office and he'd say, "Don't touch anything because he'd say, "Don't touch anything because he'd say, "Don't touch anything because if you move anything, I won't know where if you move anything, I won't know where if you move anything, I won't know where it is." And I said, "How could you it is." And I said, "How could you it is." And I said, "How could you possibly know where anything is right possibly know where anything is right possibly know where anything is right now?" And he said, "I know where now?" And he said, "I know where now?" And he said, "I know where everything is." And so, I think some everything is." And so, I think some everything is." And so, I think some people also by growing up in or being in people also by growing up in or being in people also by growing up in or being in that environment also maintain an that environment also maintain an that environment also maintain an uncanny ability to find things, whereas uncanny ability to find things, whereas uncanny ability to find things, whereas I'm the sort of person where I can't do I'm the sort of person where I can't do I'm the sort of person where I can't do any work until everything is cleared any work until everything is cleared any work until everything is cleared away. And so, um, I see myself as on the away. And so, um, I see myself as on the away. And so, um, I see myself as on the weaker side of this ability. Um, but to weaker side of this ability. Um, but to weaker side of this ability. Um, but to your question, I think your question, I think your question, I think stories are very powerful and very stories are very powerful and very stories are very powerful and very dangerous. dangerous. dangerous. Stories are the way that humans organize Stories are the way that humans organize Stories are the way that humans organize knowledge by and large, right? We don't knowledge by and large, right? We don't knowledge by and large, right? We don't tend to organize things into lists. We tend to organize things into lists. We tend to organize things into lists. We have these narratives that we call have these narratives that we call have these narratives that we call stories because from a young age, we stories because from a young age, we stories because from a young age, we learn things not just by hearing them learn things not just by hearing them learn things not just by hearing them and seeing them, but they are and seeing them, but they are and seeing them, but they are compartmentalized into narratives that compartmentalized into narratives that compartmentalized into narratives that have a beginning, a middle, and an end. have a beginning, a middle, and an end. have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Sometimes they have a uh kind of a Sometimes they have a uh kind of a Sometimes they have a uh kind of a crescendo and then a relaxation. Just
54:00crescendo and then a relaxation. Just crescendo and then a relaxation. Just think about a childhood song of learning think about a childhood song of learning think about a childhood song of learning like the ABCs. They don't teach you the like the ABCs. They don't teach you the like the ABCs. They don't teach you the ABCs. A B CDE E F G H I J. Right? They ABCs. A B CDE E F G H I J. Right? They ABCs. A B CDE E F G H I J. Right? They don't do that. What do they do? They don't do that. What do they do? They don't do that. What do they do? They give you a song which is a story. give you a song which is a story. give you a song which is a story. Musicians will understand this Musicians will understand this Musicians will understand this inherently. Again, I'm not one. But when inherently. Again, I'm not one. But when inherently. Again, I'm not one. But when I started researching neuroscience of I started researching neuroscience of I started researching neuroscience of music and the brain came to understand music and the brain came to understand music and the brain came to understand so it's A B C D E F G, right? The change so it's A B C D E F G, right? The change so it's A B C D E F G, right? The change in the inflections in the inflections in the inflections as one does the alphabet as a young kid as one does the alphabet as a young kid as one does the alphabet as a young kid is the story of the alphabet. Now people is the story of the alphabet. Now people is the story of the alphabet. Now people might say okay what is he talking about? might say okay what is he talking about? might say okay what is he talking about? What's happening here is you create What's happening here is you create What's happening here is you create variation in terms of batching of ideas variation in terms of batching of ideas variation in terms of batching of ideas so that something has a beginning a so that something has a beginning a so that something has a beginning a middle and an end. So if you think okay middle and an end. So if you think okay middle and an end. So if you think okay I grew up in this house and it was I grew up in this house and it was I grew up in this house and it was really messy and now I have too much really messy and now I have too much really messy and now I have too much mess and in order to undo that there's mess and in order to undo that there's mess and in order to undo that there's this kind of like hardwired right this kind of like hardwired right this kind of like hardwired right dangerous words hardwired neural dangerous words hardwired neural dangerous words hardwired neural circuitry in my brain that I would have circuitry in my brain that I would have circuitry in my brain that I would have to work really really hard to undo and to work really really hard to undo and to work really really hard to undo and I'd have to be scared into being a I'd have to be scared into being a I'd have to be scared into being a cleaner person or you know I'm a tidier
55:00cleaner person or you know I'm a tidier cleaner person or you know I'm a tidier person whatever it is that's very person whatever it is that's very person whatever it is that's very dangerous because there's a beginning to dangerous because there's a beginning to dangerous because there's a beginning to that a middle to that and an end to that that a middle to that and an end to that that a middle to that and an end to that and it has immense meaning as a and it has immense meaning as a and it has immense meaning as a consequence consequence consequence one of the most powerful things is to one of the most powerful things is to one of the most powerful things is to understand that neuroplasticity really understand that neuroplasticity really understand that neuroplasticity really involves taking an existing story and involves taking an existing story and involves taking an existing story and dismantling some component of it. What dismantling some component of it. What dismantling some component of it. What could the component be? Well, there's could the component be? Well, there's could the component be? Well, there's all this stuff like the Byron Katy work all this stuff like the Byron Katy work all this stuff like the Byron Katy work which says, you know, you you take which says, you know, you you take which says, you know, you you take something that you believe as true and something that you believe as true and something that you believe as true and you say, okay, like uh like I'm an you say, okay, like uh like I'm an you say, okay, like uh like I'm an untidy person and then you counter it. untidy person and then you counter it. untidy person and then you counter it. How do I know that? Well, okay, I have How do I know that? Well, okay, I have How do I know that? Well, okay, I have this experience. Okay, that's the story. this experience. Okay, that's the story. this experience. Okay, that's the story. And then you start running And then you start running And then you start running counternarratives. You say, I'm uh I'm counternarratives. You say, I'm uh I'm counternarratives. You say, I'm uh I'm uh actually a tidy person. And then uh actually a tidy person. And then uh actually a tidy person. And then people say, "Well, this is silly. You're people say, "Well, this is silly. You're people say, "Well, this is silly. You're just lying to yourself." Right? Where just lying to yourself." Right? Where just lying to yourself." Right? Where they say, "Is it always true that you're they say, "Is it always true that you're they say, "Is it always true that you're a messy person?" You start challenging a messy person?" You start challenging a messy person?" You start challenging this story from different sides. Now, I this story from different sides. Now, I this story from different sides. Now, I believe as because I'm a neuroscientist, believe as because I'm a neuroscientist, believe as because I'm a neuroscientist, I'm not um in I'm not a psychologist or I'm not um in I'm not a psychologist or I'm not um in I'm not a psychologist or in the self-help world that the in the self-help world that the in the self-help world that the brilliance, the kind of unconscious brilliance, the kind of unconscious brilliance, the kind of unconscious genius of that approach is actually that
56:00genius of that approach is actually that genius of that approach is actually that what one is doing is you're starting to what one is doing is you're starting to what one is doing is you're starting to create a new story. you're starting to create a new story. you're starting to create a new story. you're starting to kind of infuse different questions into kind of infuse different questions into kind of infuse different questions into the existing neural network. Now, the the existing neural network. Now, the the existing neural network. Now, the brain loves questions like that. The brain loves questions like that. The brain loves questions like that. The brain since we're young kids, we're brain since we're young kids, we're brain since we're young kids, we're asking questions. And so, if you take an asking questions. And so, if you take an asking questions. And so, if you take an existing story and you start challenging existing story and you start challenging existing story and you start challenging it with questions, you're not saying lie it with questions, you're not saying lie it with questions, you're not saying lie to yourself, you're not suddenly going to yourself, you're not suddenly going to yourself, you're not suddenly going to say, "Okay, like I'm super tidy." to say, "Okay, like I'm super tidy." to say, "Okay, like I'm super tidy." You're not because you're not going to You're not because you're not going to You're not because you're not going to believe that. But if you start believe that. But if you start believe that. But if you start challenging why it's that way or you challenging why it's that way or you challenging why it's that way or you know, you've been able to change so many know, you've been able to change so many know, you've been able to change so many other things. Why you wouldn't you be other things. Why you wouldn't you be other things. Why you wouldn't you be able to change that? You say, "Well, able to change that? You say, "Well, able to change that? You say, "Well, it's just a habit. I can't do it." You it's just a habit. I can't do it." You it's just a habit. I can't do it." You say, "Well, what's a habit?" you start say, "Well, what's a habit?" you start say, "Well, what's a habit?" you start poking and pushing and pushing. What you poking and pushing and pushing. What you poking and pushing and pushing. What you eventually arrive at is this kind of huh eventually arrive at is this kind of huh eventually arrive at is this kind of huh actually there's nothing keeping me from actually there's nothing keeping me from actually there's nothing keeping me from being a tidy person except this kind of being a tidy person except this kind of being a tidy person except this kind of fluency of a particular story and what fluency of a particular story and what fluency of a particular story and what you've done is you've interrupted the you've done is you've interrupted the you've done is you've interrupted the fluency of that story. So then when you fluency of that story. So then when you fluency of that story. So then when you go to the behavior of you know do you go to the behavior of you know do you go to the behavior of you know do you set things down all over the place or do set things down all over the place or do set things down all over the place or do you put them in an orderly fashion you you put them in an orderly fashion you you put them in an orderly fashion you start interrupting the habit the fluency
57:00start interrupting the habit the fluency start interrupting the habit the fluency of your typical behavior. So, I raised of your typical behavior. So, I raised of your typical behavior. So, I raised this as a as a way um to kind of shine this as a as a way um to kind of shine this as a as a way um to kind of shine light on essentially what I do in my light on essentially what I do in my light on essentially what I do in my podcast career, which is, you know, we I podcast career, which is, you know, we I podcast career, which is, you know, we I I believe very strongly in the fields of I believe very strongly in the fields of I believe very strongly in the fields of psychology. I think self-help has some psychology. I think self-help has some psychology. I think self-help has some wonderful things to offer. We've got wonderful things to offer. We've got wonderful things to offer. We've got ancient wisdom that goes way back. And ancient wisdom that goes way back. And ancient wisdom that goes way back. And when you start to look at things through when you start to look at things through when you start to look at things through the lens of biology, you start to see the lens of biology, you start to see the lens of biology, you start to see that all of these things actually have that all of these things actually have that all of these things actually have merit and they're just different paths merit and they're just different paths merit and they're just different paths to the same outcomes. Mhm. to the same outcomes. Mhm. to the same outcomes. Mhm. >> So if you wanted to become a tidy >> So if you wanted to become a tidy >> So if you wanted to become a tidy person, I would encourage you here would person, I would encourage you here would person, I would encourage you here would be one, let's just say neuroscience be one, let's just say neuroscience be one, let's just say neuroscience supported approach would be to write out supported approach would be to write out supported approach would be to write out one page about what a tidy person you one page about what a tidy person you one page about what a tidy person you really are, you'll know that's a lie, really are, you'll know that's a lie, really are, you'll know that's a lie, right? And then to look at it and right? And then to look at it and right? And then to look at it and realize that in many ways if you just realize that in many ways if you just realize that in many ways if you just replace tidy with, you know, messy at replace tidy with, you know, messy at replace tidy with, you know, messy at any location, it'd probably be the exact any location, it'd probably be the exact any location, it'd probably be the exact same story. Mhm. same story. Mhm. same story. Mhm. >> And so what you're really talking about >> And so what you're really talking about >> And so what you're really talking about here is just a default that your nervous here is just a default that your nervous here is just a default that your nervous system is running. And if you were to
58:00system is running. And if you were to system is running. And if you were to just swap the words, would you feel just swap the words, would you feel just swap the words, would you feel differently or do differently? On the differently or do differently? On the differently or do differently? On the one hand, you'd say, "No, that's kind of one hand, you'd say, "No, that's kind of one hand, you'd say, "No, that's kind of trivial." But I bet you the practice of trivial." But I bet you the practice of trivial." But I bet you the practice of writing it out would forever interrupt writing it out would forever interrupt writing it out would forever interrupt your notion of like just going to set your notion of like just going to set your notion of like just going to set something down. You'd be like, "Ah, now something down. You'd be like, "Ah, now something down. You'd be like, "Ah, now you have something to kind of disrupt you have something to kind of disrupt you have something to kind of disrupt the habit." Because so much of habit the habit." Because so much of habit the habit." Because so much of habit disruption that you'll look like some disruption that you'll look like some disruption that you'll look like some people say you flick a uh you know people say you flick a uh you know people say you flick a uh you know rubber band on your wrist or something rubber band on your wrist or something rubber band on your wrist or something like that. There's nothing special about like that. There's nothing special about like that. There's nothing special about the rubber band. There's nothing special the rubber band. There's nothing special the rubber band. There's nothing special about the pain on your wrist or the you about the pain on your wrist or the you about the pain on your wrist or the you put a sticky note. We know sticky notes put a sticky note. We know sticky notes put a sticky note. We know sticky notes work for about one day. Why don't sticky work for about one day. Why don't sticky work for about one day. Why don't sticky notes work? Why don't reminders on the notes work? Why don't reminders on the notes work? Why don't reminders on the mirror work? Because they don't have mirror work? Because they don't have mirror work? Because they don't have enough salience. They're not new. enough salience. They're not new. enough salience. They're not new. They're not different. The nervous They're not different. The nervous They're not different. The nervous system only changes if something is new system only changes if something is new system only changes if something is new and different. So anyway, we could talk and different. So anyway, we could talk and different. So anyway, we could talk a lot about habit formation, but fear a lot about habit formation, but fear a lot about habit formation, but fear works, but so does disrupting the story. works, but so does disrupting the story. works, but so does disrupting the story. How do you disrupt the story? You How do you disrupt the story? You How do you disrupt the story? You essentially give the opposite story. And essentially give the opposite story. And essentially give the opposite story. And you think, well, that's just lying to you think, well, that's just lying to you think, well, that's just lying to myself. But neurally it makes sense myself. But neurally it makes sense myself. But neurally it makes sense because the nervous system again likes because the nervous system again likes because the nervous system again likes to be very economical. Likes to do to be very economical. Likes to do to be very economical. Likes to do everything with the minimum amount of uh everything with the minimum amount of uh everything with the minimum amount of uh energetic expenditure and to change
59:00energetic expenditure and to change energetic expenditure and to change anything requires attention and anything requires attention and anything requires attention and attention is expensive. Attention is attention is expensive. Attention is attention is expensive. Attention is expensive. And also I would say as I'm expensive. And also I would say as I'm expensive. And also I would say as I'm kind of rambling all this kind of rambling all this kind of rambling all this things are going very well for you. So things are going very well for you. So things are going very well for you. So you actually don't have any reason to you actually don't have any reason to you actually don't have any reason to tidy your space. tidy your space. tidy your space. >> I have a PA now and another PA and I >> I have a PA now and another PA and I >> I have a PA now and another PA and I have a cleaner. So do you know what I have a cleaner. So do you know what I have a cleaner. So do you know what I the the the >> Yeah, you outsource it. >> Yeah, you outsource it. >> Yeah, you outsource it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Great. Well, there is incentive for all >> Great. Well, there is incentive for all >> Great. Well, there is incentive for all the folks that feel like they're not um the folks that feel like they're not um the folks that feel like they're not um tidy enough. You have two choices. You tidy enough. You have two choices. You tidy enough. You have two choices. You can either start to be tidy now or you can either start to be tidy now or you can either start to be tidy now or you can be successful enough that you can can be successful enough that you can can be successful enough that you can hire some assistance. And I actually hire some assistance. And I actually hire some assistance. And I actually think I say this in with in all think I say this in with in all think I say this in with in all seriousness, I think that one has to ask seriousness, I think that one has to ask seriousness, I think that one has to ask like where is my attention and neural like where is my attention and neural like where is my attention and neural real estate best devoted? I think about real estate best devoted? I think about real estate best devoted? I think about this every day. I mean, we are living in this every day. I mean, we are living in this every day. I mean, we are living in a war of attention. I wake up in the a war of attention. I wake up in the a war of attention. I wake up in the morning and I can be a consumer or a morning and I can be a consumer or a morning and I can be a consumer or a creator. If I reach for my phone, I'm a creator. If I reach for my phone, I'm a creator. If I reach for my phone, I'm a consumer. consumer. consumer. >> If I go to my journal, I'm a creator. >> If I go to my journal, I'm a creator. >> If I go to my journal, I'm a creator. My advice to anyone who wants to be My advice to anyone who wants to be My advice to anyone who wants to be successful in any domain is to do things
1:00successful in any domain is to do things successful in any domain is to do things away from where you broadcast and then away from where you broadcast and then away from where you broadcast and then take it to that broadcast. I mean, take take it to that broadcast. I mean, take take it to that broadcast. I mean, take your real life to Instagram and be very your real life to Instagram and be very your real life to Instagram and be very cautious about taking Instagram to your cautious about taking Instagram to your cautious about taking Instagram to your real life. Does that make sense? If you real life. Does that make sense? If you real life. Does that make sense? If you look at successful people, they're doing look at successful people, they're doing look at successful people, they're doing things away from the platforms and things away from the platforms and things away from the platforms and putting them on the platforms. putting them on the platforms. putting them on the platforms. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I have to be very careful. Then I go >> So, I have to be very careful. Then I go >> So, I have to be very careful. Then I go into the kitchen. into the kitchen. into the kitchen. >> Obviously, I talk to people in my home. >> Obviously, I talk to people in my home. >> Obviously, I talk to people in my home. Um, but if I pick up the phone and I Um, but if I pick up the phone and I Um, but if I pick up the phone and I start making a phone call, it's like, is start making a phone call, it's like, is start making a phone call, it's like, is this call really about moving the needle this call really about moving the needle this call really about moving the needle forward or is this just kind of like forward or is this just kind of like forward or is this just kind of like passive use of of attention? We have to passive use of of attention? We have to passive use of of attention? We have to be so careful nowadays. So, so careful. be so careful nowadays. So, so careful. be so careful nowadays. So, so careful. really challenging really challenging really challenging >> on that point of focus and attention and >> on that point of focus and attention and >> on that point of focus and attention and thinking back [clears throat] to when thinking back [clears throat] to when thinking back [clears throat] to when you were 19 years old. One of the things you were 19 years old. One of the things you were 19 years old. One of the things people ask me a lot and I guess it's a people ask me a lot and I guess it's a people ask me a lot and I guess it's a bit of a debate in the self-help world bit of a debate in the self-help world bit of a debate in the self-help world is from a neuroscience perspective is is from a neuroscience perspective is is from a neuroscience perspective is manifestation and this idea of like manifestation and this idea of like manifestation and this idea of like visualization visualizing who I want to visualization visualizing who I want to visualization visualizing who I want to become and you know where I'm going. Is
1:01become and you know where I'm going. Is become and you know where I'm going. Is there any neuroscience to support that there any neuroscience to support that there any neuroscience to support that that works? that works? that works? >> There is. Um, and I'm not trying to be >> There is. Um, and I'm not trying to be >> There is. Um, and I'm not trying to be negative, but I'll start with the negative, but I'll start with the negative, but I'll start with the negative counter example for which there negative counter example for which there negative counter example for which there is evidence and it's less often is evidence and it's less often is evidence and it's less often discussed. So, there's a wonderful discussed. So, there's a wonderful discussed. So, there's a wonderful researcher at New York University by the researcher at New York University by the researcher at New York University by the name of Emily Balchettis who talks about name of Emily Balchettis who talks about name of Emily Balchettis who talks about how for goal setting and habit how for goal setting and habit how for goal setting and habit formation, fear setting is often one of formation, fear setting is often one of formation, fear setting is often one of the best tools. You spend some time, the best tools. You spend some time, the best tools. You spend some time, maybe five minutes or so, thinking about maybe five minutes or so, thinking about maybe five minutes or so, thinking about all the terrible things that are going all the terrible things that are going all the terrible things that are going to happen if you don't actually to happen if you don't actually to happen if you don't actually accomplish your goals. Nobody likes to accomplish your goals. Nobody likes to accomplish your goals. Nobody likes to do this, but guess what? It turns out to do this, but guess what? It turns out to do this, but guess what? It turns out to be pretty darn effective. be pretty darn effective. be pretty darn effective. >> Really, >> Really, >> Really, >> I know it's really frustrating that this >> I know it's really frustrating that this >> I know it's really frustrating that this is the case, but again, you know, that is the case, but again, you know, that is the case, but again, you know, that has a lot to do with the way that the has a lot to do with the way that the has a lot to do with the way that the human brain is is wired and and likes to human brain is is wired and and likes to human brain is is wired and and likes to rewire itself. Now, that said, it is rewire itself. Now, that said, it is rewire itself. Now, that said, it is important to envision goals. important to envision goals. important to envision goals. Visualizing goals in detail, um, writing Visualizing goals in detail, um, writing Visualizing goals in detail, um, writing them out, in some cases, talking about them out, in some cases, talking about them out, in some cases, talking about them, although we can discuss that, um,
1:02them, although we can discuss that, um, them, although we can discuss that, um, why that might not be the best idea in why that might not be the best idea in why that might not be the best idea in every circumstance, um, can be very every circumstance, um, can be very every circumstance, um, can be very beneficial because it's hard to conceive beneficial because it's hard to conceive beneficial because it's hard to conceive something that you can't imagine. But I something that you can't imagine. But I something that you can't imagine. But I think when people hear that visualizing think when people hear that visualizing think when people hear that visualizing goals or visualizing outcomes is goals or visualizing outcomes is goals or visualizing outcomes is critical, we sometimes forget that we critical, we sometimes forget that we critical, we sometimes forget that we don't always know what the end goal is. don't always know what the end goal is. don't always know what the end goal is. Sometimes we have to break this up into Sometimes we have to break this up into Sometimes we have to break this up into milestones. This is where I think uh milestones. This is where I think uh milestones. This is where I think uh Rick Rubin, even though he's not a Rick Rubin, even though he's not a Rick Rubin, even though he's not a formerly trained scientist, um has drawn formerly trained scientist, um has drawn formerly trained scientist, um has drawn a lot of interest for his work on a lot of interest for his work on a lot of interest for his work on creativity, which is, you know, Rick is creativity, which is, you know, Rick is creativity, which is, you know, Rick is about largely, you know, sensing the about largely, you know, sensing the about largely, you know, sensing the kind of energetic pull of an idea and kind of energetic pull of an idea and kind of energetic pull of an idea and being able to explore that without too being able to explore that without too being able to explore that without too much self- judgment or filtering or much self- judgment or filtering or much self- judgment or filtering or thinking about how it's going to be thinking about how it's going to be thinking about how it's going to be received. In other words, that the received. In other words, that the received. In other words, that the metamorphosis that leads to great music, metamorphosis that leads to great music, metamorphosis that leads to great music, great poetry, great scientific great poetry, great scientific great poetry, great scientific discovery, podcasts, finance, companies discovery, podcasts, finance, companies discovery, podcasts, finance, companies that one is building, etc. is a series that one is building, etc. is a series that one is building, etc. is a series of iterations that occur on the time of iterations that occur on the time of iterations that occur on the time course of about a day, you know, and so course of about a day, you know, and so course of about a day, you know, and so we can't always imagine the end or the
1:03we can't always imagine the end or the we can't always imagine the end or the end product as the outcome. This is why end product as the outcome. This is why end product as the outcome. This is why I said university is easy compared to I said university is easy compared to I said university is easy compared to other goals because the end is a degree, other goals because the end is a degree, other goals because the end is a degree, >> right? [clears throat] is like you pick >> right? [clears throat] is like you pick >> right? [clears throat] is like you pick up your diploma like whereas in other up your diploma like whereas in other up your diploma like whereas in other areas it's far more mysterious often now areas it's far more mysterious often now areas it's far more mysterious often now visualization I think can be very visualization I think can be very visualization I think can be very powerful but perhaps what's more powerful but perhaps what's more powerful but perhaps what's more powerful is to learn the brain and body powerful is to learn the brain and body powerful is to learn the brain and body state that best serves the work you're state that best serves the work you're state that best serves the work you're going to do. So, for instance, if I'm going to do. So, for instance, if I'm going to do. So, for instance, if I'm going to do some writing and right now going to do some writing and right now going to do some writing and right now I'm working on a book, it's largely I'm working on a book, it's largely I'm working on a book, it's largely done, but I'm writing some bonus done, but I'm writing some bonus done, but I'm writing some bonus chapters. chapters. chapters. Unless I'm hyper motivated to do that Unless I'm hyper motivated to do that Unless I'm hyper motivated to do that when I sit down and hyperfocused, I'll when I sit down and hyperfocused, I'll when I sit down and hyperfocused, I'll spend two, three minutes just closing my spend two, three minutes just closing my spend two, three minutes just closing my eyes, focusing on my breathing. It's eyes, focusing on my breathing. It's eyes, focusing on my breathing. It's meditation of sorts, but what I tell meditation of sorts, but what I tell meditation of sorts, but what I tell myself is if I can't focus on my myself is if I can't focus on my myself is if I can't focus on my breathing for two or three minutes, how breathing for two or three minutes, how breathing for two or three minutes, how in the world am I going to focus on in the world am I going to focus on in the world am I going to focus on writing for two or three hours? That writing for two or three hours? That writing for two or three hours? That sort of thing. The other thing that I sort of thing. The other thing that I sort of thing. The other thing that I want to make sure I don't forget is I want to make sure I don't forget is I want to make sure I don't forget is I mentioned that telling people your goals
1:04mentioned that telling people your goals mentioned that telling people your goals often times can be useful if it often times can be useful if it often times can be useful if it stimulates a little bit of fear like you stimulates a little bit of fear like you stimulates a little bit of fear like you have some accountability. have some accountability. have some accountability. But we also know that But we also know that But we also know that because of the affiliative nature of because of the affiliative nature of because of the affiliative nature of people in particular people that support people in particular people that support people in particular people that support us there is this danger. Uh a friend of us there is this danger. Uh a friend of us there is this danger. Uh a friend of mine who's a cardiologist at UCSF taught mine who's a cardiologist at UCSF taught mine who's a cardiologist at UCSF taught me this. He said, you know, be careful me this. He said, you know, be careful me this. He said, you know, be careful who you tell that you're going to start who you tell that you're going to start who you tell that you're going to start a podcast or write a book because a podcast or write a book because a podcast or write a book because oftentimes the response will be, oh oftentimes the response will be, oh oftentimes the response will be, oh yeah, that's great. You absolutely yeah, that's great. You absolutely yeah, that's great. You absolutely should write a book or you should do a should write a book or you should do a should write a book or you should do a podcast. And people get a sort of reward podcast. And people get a sort of reward podcast. And people get a sort of reward from telling people about it and then from telling people about it and then from telling people about it and then they never actually go do it. Whereas I they never actually go do it. Whereas I they never actually go do it. Whereas I can cite numerous examples of where can cite numerous examples of where can cite numerous examples of where people were told, you're never going to people were told, you're never going to people were told, you're never going to be able to do that. You're never going be able to do that. You're never going be able to do that. You're never going to be able to be successful in that. And to be able to be successful in that. And to be able to be successful in that. And my goodness, those people dig their my goodness, those people dig their my goodness, those people dig their heels and they show that they can do it. heels and they show that they can do it. heels and they show that they can do it. Now, I get into debates about this with Now, I get into debates about this with Now, I get into debates about this with Rick from time to time. It's a, you Rick from time to time. It's a, you Rick from time to time. It's a, you know, it's unclear to me whether or not know, it's unclear to me whether or not know, it's unclear to me whether or not the energy around trying to prove the energy around trying to prove the energy around trying to prove oneself is detrimental to the outcome.
1:05oneself is detrimental to the outcome. oneself is detrimental to the outcome. And I sense it is, right? This kind of And I sense it is, right? This kind of And I sense it is, right? This kind of grinding against like, oh, take that and grinding against like, oh, take that and grinding against like, oh, take that and take that as opposed to just doing take that as opposed to just doing take that as opposed to just doing things out of real love of craft. I things out of real love of craft. I things out of real love of craft. I think about the way I felt about aquaria think about the way I felt about aquaria think about the way I felt about aquaria and fish as a kid and it's just like and fish as a kid and it's just like and fish as a kid and it's just like pure delight. That's the word that comes pure delight. That's the word that comes pure delight. That's the word that comes to mind. Just delight. I want to learn to mind. Just delight. I want to learn to mind. Just delight. I want to learn more about it. I want to do it and tell more about it. I want to do it and tell more about it. I want to do it and tell people about it. That's the wonderful people about it. That's the wonderful people about it. That's the wonderful romantic picture of effort and progress romantic picture of effort and progress romantic picture of effort and progress and outcomes. But in reality, you and outcomes. But in reality, you and outcomes. But in reality, you probably need both. You need to be able probably need both. You need to be able probably need both. You need to be able to access some fear and sense of to access some fear and sense of to access some fear and sense of competition, but also delight in craft. competition, but also delight in craft. competition, but also delight in craft. You know, like Peter Teal's book 0ero You know, like Peter Teal's book 0ero You know, like Peter Teal's book 0ero to1, as I recall, defines competition as to1, as I recall, defines competition as to1, as I recall, defines competition as anti-creativity in many ways because anti-creativity in many ways because anti-creativity in many ways because through competition, you are by through competition, you are by through competition, you are by definition changing what you're doing in definition changing what you're doing in definition changing what you're doing in order to outdo somebody else or order to outdo somebody else or order to outdo somebody else or something else. And so, you're morphing something else. And so, you're morphing something else. And so, you're morphing your creation in order to kind of your creation in order to kind of your creation in order to kind of overcome something. overcome something. overcome something. >> Whereas, if you're just purely thinking >> Whereas, if you're just purely thinking >> Whereas, if you're just purely thinking about something you want to grow and
1:06about something you want to grow and about something you want to grow and cultivate, there are none of those cultivate, there are none of those cultivate, there are none of those barriers. But in the worlds that I've barriers. But in the worlds that I've barriers. But in the worlds that I've been in science to a lesser extent been in science to a lesser extent been in science to a lesser extent podcasting and that's a wonderful podcasting and that's a wonderful podcasting and that's a wonderful feature of podcasting but certainly in feature of podcasting but certainly in feature of podcasting but certainly in science it is hyper competitive right science it is hyper competitive right science it is hyper competitive right two laboratories working on similar two laboratories working on similar two laboratories working on similar things people are concerned that if one things people are concerned that if one things people are concerned that if one publishes first the other will not be publishes first the other will not be publishes first the other will not be able to publish certainly not in as high able to publish certainly not in as high able to publish certainly not in as high quality a journal and jobs are created quality a journal and jobs are created quality a journal and jobs are created through these journal publications through these journal publications through these journal publications podcasting is actually a wonderful field podcasting is actually a wonderful field podcasting is actually a wonderful field um because let's say you and I have the um because let's say you and I have the um because let's say you and I have the same guest on our podcasts. All it does same guest on our podcasts. All it does same guest on our podcasts. All it does is raise it in the algorithm. It's not is raise it in the algorithm. It's not is raise it in the algorithm. It's not [laughter] like, you know, [laughter] like, you know, [laughter] like, you know, [clears throat] and and it's such a And [clears throat] and and it's such a And [clears throat] and and it's such a And so I think there's a lot of um so I think there's a lot of um so I think there's a lot of um collegiality and camaraderie in the collegiality and camaraderie in the collegiality and camaraderie in the podcast field that um exists in little podcast field that um exists in little podcast field that um exists in little pockets in science, but um science is a pockets in science, but um science is a pockets in science, but um science is a brutally competitive field, which brutally competitive field, which brutally competitive field, which doesn't mean it's anti-creative, but in doesn't mean it's anti-creative, but in doesn't mean it's anti-creative, but in a dream world where there's infinite a dream world where there's infinite a dream world where there's infinite amount of money for scientific research amount of money for scientific research amount of money for scientific research because that would better humanity in my
1:07because that would better humanity in my because that would better humanity in my in my view. um and people didn't have to in my view. um and people didn't have to in my view. um and people didn't have to be competitive about grant dollars or be competitive about grant dollars or be competitive about grant dollars or publication. I think we would make far publication. I think we would make far publication. I think we would make far more progress as a species. So more progress as a species. So more progress as a species. So competition fosters competition fosters competition fosters outcomes. This is clear in markets. It's outcomes. This is clear in markets. It's outcomes. This is clear in markets. It's clear in a lot of domains. But pure love clear in a lot of domains. But pure love clear in a lot of domains. But pure love and delight of craft and creativity, and delight of craft and creativity, and delight of craft and creativity, that's definitely the way to go. But in that's definitely the way to go. But in that's definitely the way to go. But in most endeavors, you got to have both. If most endeavors, you got to have both. If most endeavors, you got to have both. If sitting next to someone in class and sitting next to someone in class and sitting next to someone in class and realizing, okay, cuz this was me back realizing, okay, cuz this was me back realizing, okay, cuz this was me back when, I'm thinking, okay, I I love this when, I'm thinking, okay, I I love this when, I'm thinking, okay, I I love this topic, but gosh, I want that top mark. I topic, but gosh, I want that top mark. I topic, but gosh, I want that top mark. I want that top mark on the distribution. want that top mark on the distribution. want that top mark on the distribution. Like, that's and and like she and he are Like, that's and and like she and he are Like, that's and and like she and he are really really good and I'm going to really really good and I'm going to really really good and I'm going to we're going to study together, but my we're going to study together, but my we're going to study together, but my god, when it comes time for that exam, god, when it comes time for that exam, god, when it comes time for that exam, like I'm going for it. A little bit of like I'm going for it. A little bit of like I'm going for it. A little bit of competition can can bring out our our competition can can bring out our our competition can can bring out our our best, I think. um certainly in sport, best, I think. um certainly in sport, best, I think. um certainly in sport, but when it comes to creative endeavors but when it comes to creative endeavors but when it comes to creative endeavors that are really about our own unique that are really about our own unique that are really about our own unique contribution. I mean, you could tell me contribution. I mean, you could tell me contribution. I mean, you could tell me more about this in business because more about this in business because more about this in business because you're you're I don't you know, I have a you're you're I don't you know, I have a you're you're I don't you know, I have a company, but I'm not a business person. company, but I'm not a business person. company, but I'm not a business person. But I I always feel like competition can
1:08But I I always feel like competition can But I I always feel like competition can bring out more energy, but not more bring out more energy, but not more bring out more energy, but not more creativity. creativity. creativity. >> Yeah. And I think a big point I was >> Yeah. And I think a big point I was >> Yeah. And I think a big point I was thinking as you were talking was just thinking as you were talking was just thinking as you were talking was just about how much you let that new energy about how much you let that new energy about how much you let that new energy that comes from competition distract that comes from competition distract that comes from competition distract you. And this is it's the distraction you. And this is it's the distraction you. And this is it's the distraction that can destroy you because if Apple that can destroy you because if Apple that can destroy you because if Apple are going this way and they're building are going this way and they're building are going this way and they're building this product without the keyboard and this product without the keyboard and this product without the keyboard and without the stylus and that's they've without the stylus and that's they've without the stylus and that's they've got their vision and they see Samsung got their vision and they see Samsung got their vision and they see Samsung doing over there something over there doing over there something over there doing over there something over there and if they if they divert from their and if they if they divert from their and if they if they divert from their own mission and their own first own mission and their own first own mission and their own first principles towards what someone else are principles towards what someone else are principles towards what someone else are doing then that's when it can become doing then that's when it can become doing then that's when it can become destructive. But if it means that they destructive. But if it means that they destructive. But if it means that they see Samsung doing something and they see Samsung doing something and they see Samsung doing something and they speed up and invest more in their vision speed up and invest more in their vision speed up and invest more in their vision then it's okay. I think that's and it is then it's okay. I think that's and it is then it's okay. I think that's and it is this dichotomy between competition does this dichotomy between competition does this dichotomy between competition does drive better outcomes for everybody drive better outcomes for everybody drive better outcomes for everybody that's competing but at the same time um that's competing but at the same time um that's competing but at the same time um yeah it can harm you if it distracts you yeah it can harm you if it distracts you yeah it can harm you if it distracts you in a fundamental way. It's kind of how I in a fundamental way. It's kind of how I in a fundamental way. It's kind of how I think about even with podcasting like think about even with podcasting like think about even with podcasting like you know um as you were saying there's you know um as you were saying there's you know um as you were saying there's so many podcasters doing so many amazing so many podcasters doing so many amazing so many podcasters doing so many amazing things like I I look at your podcast and things like I I look at your podcast and things like I I look at your podcast and I learn from it but I know in my core
1:09I learn from it but I know in my core I learn from it but I know in my core and we all know I'm never going to be and we all know I'm never going to be and we all know I'm never going to be Andrew Huberman Andrew Huberman Andrew Huberman >> and I'll never be you >> and I'll never be you >> and I'll never be you >> and I'll never be a Joe Rogan. I'll >> and I'll never be a Joe Rogan. I'll >> and I'll never be a Joe Rogan. I'll never be a Lex. never be a Lex. never be a Lex. >> And I admire your podcast very much and >> And I admire your podcast very much and >> And I admire your podcast very much and Joe's and Lex's. I think it's We each Joe's and Lex's. I think it's We each Joe's and Lex's. I think it's We each have our own unique style that we bring have our own unique style that we bring have our own unique style that we bring to it. Chris Williamson, you know, um to it. Chris Williamson, you know, um to it. Chris Williamson, you know, um >> it's >> it's >> it's been a lot of fun to see the unique been a lot of fun to see the unique been a lot of fun to see the unique flavors of podcasts crop up flavors of podcasts crop up flavors of podcasts crop up >> and how similar that is to the world I >> and how similar that is to the world I >> and how similar that is to the world I grew up in in skateboarding. The grew up in in skateboarding. The grew up in in skateboarding. The observations of from the music industry observations of from the music industry observations of from the music industry that I saw firsthand or that, you know, that I saw firsthand or that, you know, that I saw firsthand or that, you know, Rick has passed along. You know, in the Rick has passed along. You know, in the Rick has passed along. You know, in the end, I think any creative endeavor is end, I think any creative endeavor is end, I think any creative endeavor is really about, and here I don't want to really about, and here I don't want to really about, and here I don't want to sound mysterious or woo. It's about the sound mysterious or woo. It's about the sound mysterious or woo. It's about the energy that we bring. It's about taking energy that we bring. It's about taking energy that we bring. It's about taking our life history and bringing it to that our life history and bringing it to that our life history and bringing it to that thing in whatever form. We don't even thing in whatever form. We don't even thing in whatever form. We don't even need to tell people our life history. need to tell people our life history. need to tell people our life history. Taking our unique wiring and bringing it Taking our unique wiring and bringing it Taking our unique wiring and bringing it to that thing. And we can again look at to that thing. And we can again look at to that thing. And we can again look at things through the lens of biology and things through the lens of biology and things through the lens of biology and say, "Well, what are we talking talking say, "Well, what are we talking talking say, "Well, what are we talking talking about when we're talking about energy?
1:10about when we're talking about energy? about when we're talking about energy? what is this energy thing that people what is this energy thing that people what is this energy thing that people are talking about? Um, and I think it are talking about? Um, and I think it are talking about? Um, and I think it largely boils down to these largely boils down to these largely boils down to these catakolamines, the dopamine, catakolamines, the dopamine, catakolamines, the dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine cocktail epinephrine, norepinephrine cocktail epinephrine, norepinephrine cocktail that is setting the brain into a mode of that is setting the brain into a mode of that is setting the brain into a mode of attention, of motivation. We now know attention, of motivation. We now know attention, of motivation. We now know dopamine is more about motivation to dopamine is more about motivation to dopamine is more about motivation to seek rewards as opposed to feeling of seek rewards as opposed to feeling of seek rewards as opposed to feeling of pleasure or reward. There's a lot to be pleasure or reward. There's a lot to be pleasure or reward. There's a lot to be said about that. And keep in mind that said about that. And keep in mind that said about that. And keep in mind that these three neurochemicals, these three neurochemicals, these three neurochemicals, dopamine, norepinephrine, and dopamine, norepinephrine, and dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine, epinephrine, epinephrine, have been the neurochemical cocktail by have been the neurochemical cocktail by have been the neurochemical cocktail by which humans and other mammals have set which humans and other mammals have set which humans and other mammals have set and pursued goals for hundreds of and pursued goals for hundreds of and pursued goals for hundreds of thousands of years. So we don't have thousands of years. So we don't have thousands of years. So we don't have like a unique system, a unique like a unique system, a unique like a unique system, a unique neurochemical system for seeking out of neurochemical system for seeking out of neurochemical system for seeking out of mates versus food versus creating mates versus food versus creating mates versus food versus creating shelter versus creating technology and shelter versus creating technology and shelter versus creating technology and whole societies. whole societies. whole societies. And it's not just these three And it's not just these three And it's not just these three neurochemicals. Certainly there are neurochemicals. Certainly there are neurochemicals. Certainly there are other things involved acetylcholine and other things involved acetylcholine and other things involved acetylcholine and you know a bunch of other things you know a bunch of other things you know a bunch of other things neuroplasticity for that matter. But
1:11neuroplasticity for that matter. But neuroplasticity for that matter. But it's clearly the case that the currency it's clearly the case that the currency it's clearly the case that the currency that the brain has set around getting us that the brain has set around getting us that the brain has set around getting us into forward center of mass as I say to into forward center of mass as I say to into forward center of mass as I say to like envision something explore nope not like envision something explore nope not like envision something explore nope not down there this way. Ah, there's down there this way. Ah, there's down there this way. Ah, there's [snorts] a scent here. And trade out an [snorts] a scent here. And trade out an [snorts] a scent here. And trade out an actual scent for, you know, oh, there's actual scent for, you know, oh, there's actual scent for, you know, oh, there's something interesting here. There's something interesting here. There's something interesting here. There's someone interesting here. And like someone interesting here. And like someone interesting here. And like exploring that, no, that's a dead path exploring that, no, that's a dead path exploring that, no, that's a dead path to culde-sac. Turn around, go, oh, here. to culde-sac. Turn around, go, oh, here. to culde-sac. Turn around, go, oh, here. And then connecting these nodes of And then connecting these nodes of And then connecting these nodes of progress. What's progress? Ah, there's progress. What's progress? Ah, there's progress. What's progress? Ah, there's kind of another surge of these kind of another surge of these kind of another surge of these catakolamines, which sets us in forward catakolamines, which sets us in forward catakolamines, which sets us in forward center of mass. You know, I don't want center of mass. You know, I don't want center of mass. You know, I don't want to oversimplify the biology, but when we to oversimplify the biology, but when we to oversimplify the biology, but when we talk about energy, um, for instance, talk about energy, um, for instance, talk about energy, um, for instance, taking time to rest at night, sleep, taking time to rest at night, sleep, taking time to rest at night, sleep, taking time to maybe meditate a few taking time to maybe meditate a few taking time to maybe meditate a few minutes or do this practice that I'm a minutes or do this practice that I'm a minutes or do this practice that I'm a huge fan of, non-sleep deep rest, which huge fan of, non-sleep deep rest, which huge fan of, non-sleep deep rest, which is kind of a body scan, deep relaxation, is kind of a body scan, deep relaxation, is kind of a body scan, deep relaxation, long exhales. long exhales. long exhales. It's a practice very similar to an It's a practice very similar to an It's a practice very similar to an ancient practice called yoga nidra, ancient practice called yoga nidra, ancient practice called yoga nidra, which has been practiced for thousands which has been practiced for thousands which has been practiced for thousands of years. It's a kind of pseudo sleep.
1:12of years. It's a kind of pseudo sleep. of years. It's a kind of pseudo sleep. And we know from a really nice study And we know from a really nice study And we know from a really nice study that NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, aka yoga that NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, aka yoga that NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, aka yoga nidra, can increase the baseline levels nidra, can increase the baseline levels nidra, can increase the baseline levels of dopamine in a brain area called the of dopamine in a brain area called the of dopamine in a brain area called the basil ganglia, which is for basil ganglia, which is for basil ganglia, which is for action generation and also withholding action generation and also withholding action generation and also withholding action by about 60% from baseline. Just action by about 60% from baseline. Just action by about 60% from baseline. Just a a short period of doing this practice a a short period of doing this practice a a short period of doing this practice can re kind of re-up dopamine levels to can re kind of re-up dopamine levels to can re kind of re-up dopamine levels to a considerable extent. It's a remarkable a considerable extent. It's a remarkable a considerable extent. It's a remarkable study and there are others like it. So study and there are others like it. So study and there are others like it. So what does that mean? Well, it means that what does that mean? Well, it means that what does that mean? Well, it means that in rest, we build up this capacity to be in rest, we build up this capacity to be in rest, we build up this capacity to be forward center of mass when we emerge forward center of mass when we emerge forward center of mass when we emerge from rest. That's why I think we have to from rest. That's why I think we have to from rest. That's why I think we have to sleep every 24 hours. This is why sleep every 24 hours. This is why sleep every 24 hours. This is why practices where we deliberately calm practices where we deliberately calm practices where we deliberately calm ourselves and still ourselves allow us ourselves and still ourselves allow us ourselves and still ourselves allow us to be more forward center of mass to be more forward center of mass to be more forward center of mass mentally and physically afterwards. It's mentally and physically afterwards. It's mentally and physically afterwards. It's kind of a duh. When we hear it, we kind kind of a duh. When we hear it, we kind kind of a duh. When we hear it, we kind of go, "Oh, duh. Of course, rest, of go, "Oh, duh. Of course, rest, of go, "Oh, duh. Of course, rest, action, rest, action." But there's a lot action, rest, action." But there's a lot action, rest, action." But there's a lot more to it. If you start exploring the more to it. If you start exploring the more to it. If you start exploring the layers, you start realizing that
1:13layers, you start realizing that layers, you start realizing that excitement for things um versus burnout. excitement for things um versus burnout. excitement for things um versus burnout. What's burnout? It's just trying to be What's burnout? It's just trying to be What's burnout? It's just trying to be forward center of mass for too long. forward center of mass for too long. forward center of mass for too long. It's, It's, It's, you know, misuse of our dopamine you know, misuse of our dopamine you know, misuse of our dopamine circuitry. It's, you know, ignoring the circuitry. It's, you know, ignoring the circuitry. It's, you know, ignoring the fact that these catakolamines and fact that these catakolamines and fact that these catakolamines and dopamine in particular, they are not dopamine in particular, they are not dopamine in particular, they are not infinite in their availability, right? infinite in their availability, right? infinite in their availability, right? there's a reservoir of them that can be there's a reservoir of them that can be there's a reservoir of them that can be depleted, but it can be replenished as depleted, but it can be replenished as depleted, but it can be replenished as well. And one of the best analogies for well. And one of the best analogies for well. And one of the best analogies for this um was actually explained to me by this um was actually explained to me by this um was actually explained to me by a guy named Dr. Kyle Gillette. He does a guy named Dr. Kyle Gillette. He does a guy named Dr. Kyle Gillette. He does some online work as a as a um public some online work as a as a um public some online work as a as a um public facing physician, endocrinology in facing physician, endocrinology in facing physician, endocrinology in particular. And he said, "With dopamine, particular. And he said, "With dopamine, particular. And he said, "With dopamine, it's kind of like a wave pool. You have it's kind of like a wave pool. You have it's kind of like a wave pool. You have this reservoir that can allow you to this reservoir that can allow you to this reservoir that can allow you to pursue things or scroll the internet or pursue things or scroll the internet or pursue things or scroll the internet or build businesses, whatever it is. If you build businesses, whatever it is. If you build businesses, whatever it is. If you are really forward center of mass very are really forward center of mass very are really forward center of mass very intensely, you start generating these intensely, you start generating these intensely, you start generating these waves. And if you get big waves of waves. And if you get big waves of waves. And if you get big waves of dopamine and they crash out of the pool, dopamine and they crash out of the pool, dopamine and they crash out of the pool, you start depleting the reservoir. So you start depleting the reservoir. So you start depleting the reservoir. So when I think about drugs of abuse like when I think about drugs of abuse like when I think about drugs of abuse like cocaine, which leads to huge surges in cocaine, which leads to huge surges in cocaine, which leads to huge surges in dopamine or um amphetamines, huge surges
1:14dopamine or um amphetamines, huge surges dopamine or um amphetamines, huge surges in dopamine. What do we know about huge in dopamine. What do we know about huge in dopamine. What do we know about huge surges in dopamine? Well, after those surges in dopamine? Well, after those surges in dopamine? Well, after those huge surges, you drop below your initial huge surges, you drop below your initial huge surges, you drop below your initial baseline to a state in which the same baseline to a state in which the same baseline to a state in which the same thing doesn't feel as good anymore. You thing doesn't feel as good anymore. You thing doesn't feel as good anymore. You need so much more energy to get the same need so much more energy to get the same need so much more energy to get the same output. That's what this is, right? output. That's what this is, right? output. That's what this is, right? >> That's what this is. So, >> That's what this is. So, >> That's what this is. So, >> I'll put this on the screen for anyone. >> I'll put this on the screen for anyone. >> I'll put this on the screen for anyone. >> Yeah. So, my colleague at Stanford, Dr. >> Yeah. So, my colleague at Stanford, Dr. >> Yeah. So, my colleague at Stanford, Dr. Anna Lemi, who runs our dual diagnosis Anna Lemi, who runs our dual diagnosis Anna Lemi, who runs our dual diagnosis addiction clinic and wrote the wonderful addiction clinic and wrote the wonderful addiction clinic and wrote the wonderful book Dopamine Nation, described this book Dopamine Nation, described this book Dopamine Nation, described this best. You know, it's sort of like a best. You know, it's sort of like a best. You know, it's sort of like a seessaw, but what whereby you get a big seessaw, but what whereby you get a big seessaw, but what whereby you get a big peak in dopamine, let's say, from a drug peak in dopamine, let's say, from a drug peak in dopamine, let's say, from a drug of abuse like cocaine. People on of abuse like cocaine. People on of abuse like cocaine. People on cocaine, it's all about ideas and what's cocaine, it's all about ideas and what's cocaine, it's all about ideas and what's next. They're not like, "Hey, let's just next. They're not like, "Hey, let's just next. They're not like, "Hey, let's just kick back. It's all about what's they," kick back. It's all about what's they," kick back. It's all about what's they," In fact, they have a million ideas per In fact, they have a million ideas per In fact, they have a million ideas per second. Most of them are terrible ideas, second. Most of them are terrible ideas, second. Most of them are terrible ideas, but they're very forward center of mass but they're very forward center of mass but they're very forward center of mass motivated and then when the drug wears motivated and then when the drug wears motivated and then when the drug wears off, they feel very low and very off, they feel very low and very off, they feel very low and very depressed. The dopamine is actually depressed. The dopamine is actually depressed. The dopamine is actually depleted below baseline. People that
1:15depleted below baseline. People that depleted below baseline. People that work excessively, right, we all have work excessively, right, we all have work excessively, right, we all have different abilities to work out, but different abilities to work out, but different abilities to work out, but people that work excessively and abuse people that work excessively and abuse people that work excessively and abuse stimulants in order to do that achieve stimulants in order to do that achieve stimulants in order to do that achieve these peaks. these peaks. these peaks. >> Is that like So, what would be the an >> Is that like So, what would be the an >> Is that like So, what would be the an everyday example of that? Working everyday example of that? Working everyday example of that? Working excessively. Do you mean like a excessively. Do you mean like a excessively. Do you mean like a pre-workout or something? I think what pre-workout or something? I think what pre-workout or something? I think what you mean? you mean? you mean? >> Yeah. I'm not anti- preworkout. Listen, >> Yeah. I'm not anti- preworkout. Listen, >> Yeah. I'm not anti- preworkout. Listen, I love to be well-rested, hydrated, have I love to be well-rested, hydrated, have I love to be well-rested, hydrated, have a nice pre-workout drink, maybe even a a nice pre-workout drink, maybe even a a nice pre-workout drink, maybe even a little shot of espresso, listen to some little shot of espresso, listen to some little shot of espresso, listen to some music, and have an incredible leg day music, and have an incredible leg day music, and have an incredible leg day workout. It's an amazing feeling, right? workout. It's an amazing feeling, right? workout. It's an amazing feeling, right? But if you do that every single time, But if you do that every single time, But if you do that every single time, you start stacking all these you start stacking all these you start stacking all these catakolamine release inducing drugs. catakolamine release inducing drugs. catakolamine release inducing drugs. Okay? So, you're getting adrenaline. Okay? So, you're getting adrenaline. Okay? So, you're getting adrenaline. You're getting epinephrine, which is You're getting epinephrine, which is You're getting epinephrine, which is adrenaline, excuse me. You're getting adrenaline, excuse me. You're getting adrenaline, excuse me. You're getting adrenaline, you're getting adrenaline, you're getting adrenaline, you're getting noradrenaline, also called noradrenaline, also called noradrenaline, also called norepinephrine, you're getting dopamine norepinephrine, you're getting dopamine norepinephrine, you're getting dopamine release, you're highly motivated, you're release, you're highly motivated, you're release, you're highly motivated, you're in that state that everyone is seeking, in that state that everyone is seeking, in that state that everyone is seeking, and you try and do that seven days a and you try and do that seven days a and you try and do that seven days a week. You're not going to do it. And week. You're not going to do it. And week. You're not going to do it. And then you wonder why in the afternoon then you wonder why in the afternoon then you wonder why in the afternoon you're just completely cooked and you you're just completely cooked and you you're just completely cooked and you can't do any cognitive work. Well, your can't do any cognitive work. Well, your can't do any cognitive work. Well, your dopamine and other things have crashed
1:16dopamine and other things have crashed dopamine and other things have crashed below baseline. So, I think it's below baseline. So, I think it's below baseline. So, I think it's important to understand that being, as important to understand that being, as important to understand that being, as I'm calling it, forward center of mass, I'm calling it, forward center of mass, I'm calling it, forward center of mass, like really kind of motivated and like really kind of motivated and like really kind of motivated and pursuing goals is great, but most of the pursuing goals is great, but most of the pursuing goals is great, but most of the time we're probably best off just coming time we're probably best off just coming time we're probably best off just coming off the gas pedal just a little bit to off the gas pedal just a little bit to off the gas pedal just a little bit to maintain that ability to continue to be maintain that ability to continue to be maintain that ability to continue to be forward center of mass. The same thing forward center of mass. The same thing forward center of mass. The same thing is true for stress. We hear stress is is true for stress. We hear stress is is true for stress. We hear stress is bad. Well, stress is bad, but it also bad. Well, stress is bad, but it also bad. Well, stress is bad, but it also sharpens your ability to learn. It sharpens your ability to learn. It sharpens your ability to learn. It creates energy. It actually boosts your creates energy. It actually boosts your creates energy. It actually boosts your immune system in the short term. I say immune system in the short term. I say immune system in the short term. I say tolerate as much stress as you can tolerate as much stress as you can tolerate as much stress as you can provided you still behave like a kind provided you still behave like a kind provided you still behave like a kind person, right? Don't say or do things person, right? Don't say or do things person, right? Don't say or do things that are unkind and make sure that you that are unkind and make sure that you that are unkind and make sure that you still get great sleep at night. Most still get great sleep at night. Most still get great sleep at night. Most people stress stress stress stress people stress stress stress stress people stress stress stress stress stress run around and then they can't stress run around and then they can't stress run around and then they can't sleep at night and then the next day sleep at night and then the next day sleep at night and then the next day they're depleted. But a little bit of they're depleted. But a little bit of they're depleted. But a little bit of stress is healthy. Life is stress. stress is healthy. Life is stress. stress is healthy. Life is stress. Things are stressful. But again, you're Things are stressful. But again, you're Things are stressful. But again, you're going to be in your best state of mind going to be in your best state of mind going to be in your best state of mind if you're calm and alert. Alert and calm
1:17if you're calm and alert. Alert and calm if you're calm and alert. Alert and calm is the is the magic recipe and the is the is the magic recipe and the is the is the magic recipe and the ability to sleep at night. If you want ability to sleep at night. If you want ability to sleep at night. If you want to take a bunch of pre-workout and you to take a bunch of pre-workout and you to take a bunch of pre-workout and you want to listen to some loud music and want to listen to some loud music and want to listen to some loud music and have a great crushit workout, great. But have a great crushit workout, great. But have a great crushit workout, great. But you should probably also be able to you should probably also be able to you should probably also be able to train without all of that. If you're train without all of that. If you're train without all of that. If you're somebody who loves new goals and you, somebody who loves new goals and you, somebody who loves new goals and you, you know, you're very excited about you know, you're very excited about you know, you're very excited about travel and this and that, great. But do travel and this and that, great. But do travel and this and that, great. But do you have to layer in 50 things and then you have to layer in 50 things and then you have to layer in 50 things and then you're sitting around at home and you're you're sitting around at home and you're you're sitting around at home and you're wondering why you're so bored when wondering why you're so bored when wondering why you're so bored when you're back home and why life is so you're back home and why life is so you're back home and why life is so depressing and you need more travel, depressing and you need more travel, depressing and you need more travel, more stimulation in every domain of more stimulation in every domain of more stimulation in every domain of life. We see whether or not it's food or life. We see whether or not it's food or life. We see whether or not it's food or exercise or stimulants or sex or media, exercise or stimulants or sex or media, exercise or stimulants or sex or media, if you push things to the max, you're if you push things to the max, you're if you push things to the max, you're going to feel depleted and under going to feel depleted and under going to feel depleted and under stimulated afterwards. And this trough stimulated afterwards. And this trough stimulated afterwards. And this trough below baseline as Anna LMKI taught us below baseline as Anna LMKI taught us below baseline as Anna LMKI taught us with dopamine nation with dopamine nation with dopamine nation that trough is a state that can last a that trough is a state that can last a that trough is a state that can last a long time. And it's how long it's long time. And it's how long it's long time. And it's how long it's proportional to how high that peak in
1:18proportional to how high that peak in proportional to how high that peak in dopamine was. Not how long, but how high dopamine was. Not how long, but how high dopamine was. Not how long, but how high that peak in dopamine was. And when that peak in dopamine was. And when that peak in dopamine was. And when you're in that trough, that dopamine you're in that trough, that dopamine you're in that trough, that dopamine depleted state, typically what people do depleted state, typically what people do depleted state, typically what people do is they try and go out or access things is they try and go out or access things is they try and go out or access things that are going to reactivate the that are going to reactivate the dopamine circuitry. And all it does is dopamine circuitry. And all it does is dopamine circuitry. And all it does is drive them further and further and drive them further and further and drive them further and further and longer and longer into that trough. longer and longer into that trough. longer and longer into that trough. What's needed is a period of waiting, of What's needed is a period of waiting, of What's needed is a period of waiting, of non-indulgence in any of these excesses non-indulgence in any of these excesses non-indulgence in any of these excesses that allows them to return to baseline. that allows them to return to baseline. that allows them to return to baseline. We know this from drugs of abuse. It We know this from drugs of abuse. It We know this from drugs of abuse. It takes more and more drug to try and get takes more and more drug to try and get takes more and more drug to try and get what turns out to be less and less of a what turns out to be less and less of a what turns out to be less and less of a high. Most all addiction, most all high. Most all addiction, most all high. Most all addiction, most all compulsive behavior can be cured compulsive behavior can be cured compulsive behavior can be cured essentially through a period of essentially through a period of essentially through a period of abstinence lasting somewhere between 30 abstinence lasting somewhere between 30 abstinence lasting somewhere between 30 and 60 days, which to somebody who's and 60 days, which to somebody who's and 60 days, which to somebody who's highly motivated to seek that thing or highly motivated to seek that thing or highly motivated to seek that thing or do that thing sounds like an absolute do that thing sounds like an absolute do that thing sounds like an absolute horror, but that is highly effective. So horror, but that is highly effective. So horror, but that is highly effective. So for some people it's work and for some people it's work and for some people it's work and stimulants, you know, a number of people stimulants, you know, a number of people stimulants, you know, a number of people taking aderall and work work work. I taking aderall and work work work. I taking aderall and work work work. I hear from these people all the time. hear from these people all the time. hear from these people all the time. Typically they are from the tech and
1:19Typically they are from the tech and Typically they are from the tech and finance world. They're like, "Why am I finance world. They're like, "Why am I finance world. They're like, "Why am I burnt out?" Well, you've been blasting burnt out?" Well, you've been blasting burnt out?" Well, you've been blasting these catakolamine regulated circuits these catakolamine regulated circuits these catakolamine regulated circuits for years. You need to just accept for years. You need to just accept for years. You need to just accept you're going to feel a little low for a you're going to feel a little low for a you're going to feel a little low for a week. Then you're going to feel a little week. Then you're going to feel a little week. Then you're going to feel a little less low. Then you're going to come back less low. Then you're going to come back less low. Then you're going to come back to baseline. And then and only then can to baseline. And then and only then can to baseline. And then and only then can you really get back into like full you really get back into like full you really get back into like full forward center of mass. But at that forward center of mass. But at that forward center of mass. But at that point, you can introduce, you know, I I point, you can introduce, you know, I I point, you can introduce, you know, I I do think there is a clinical use case do think there is a clinical use case do think there is a clinical use case for certain ADHD meds, which are for certain ADHD meds, which are for certain ADHD meds, which are amphetamine. There are certain people amphetamine. There are certain people amphetamine. There are certain people that need those meds. Other people have that need those meds. Other people have that need those meds. Other people have driven themselves into this dopamine driven themselves into this dopamine driven themselves into this dopamine trough and so they're seeking out trough and so they're seeking out trough and so they're seeking out anything and everything to get them out anything and everything to get them out anything and everything to get them out of that trough when really what they of that trough when really what they of that trough when really what they need to do is stay away from all that need to do is stay away from all that need to do is stay away from all that stuff and just wait. Just wait. stuff and just wait. Just wait. stuff and just wait. Just wait. >> Go on holiday or something. >> Go on holiday or something. >> Go on holiday or something. >> Go on holiday. Try and find reward in >> Go on holiday. Try and find reward in >> Go on holiday. Try and find reward in smaller things. Um, you know, this is smaller things. Um, you know, this is smaller things. Um, you know, this is why dogs are wonderful in simpler why dogs are wonderful in simpler why dogs are wonderful in simpler things. And if that sounds heavy and things. And if that sounds heavy and things. And if that sounds heavy and dull to you, chances are you're a bit in dull to you, chances are you're a bit in dull to you, chances are you're a bit in the dopamine uh loop. Um, I've been in
1:20the dopamine uh loop. Um, I've been in the dopamine uh loop. Um, I've been in these loops before. They're hard to these loops before. They're hard to these loops before. They're hard to exit, but once you exit them, you look exit, but once you exit them, you look exit, but once you exit them, you look back on them. You go, "What was I back on them. You go, "What was I back on them. You go, "What was I thinking?" Well, you were in a different thinking?" Well, you were in a different thinking?" Well, you were in a different state. You're kind of a different animal state. You're kind of a different animal state. You're kind of a different animal when you're in pursuit. when you're in pursuit. when you're in pursuit. >> I think this is so unbelievably >> I think this is so unbelievably >> I think this is so unbelievably important because it really helps people important because it really helps people important because it really helps people to understand why they do what they do. to understand why they do what they do. to understand why they do what they do. And before doing the research on you And before doing the research on you And before doing the research on you coming here today and before coming here today and before coming here today and before understanding some of this stuff, I understanding some of this stuff, I understanding some of this stuff, I thought dopamine was, I don't know, it thought dopamine was, I don't know, it thought dopamine was, I don't know, it was this thing that came in these hits was this thing that came in these hits was this thing that came in these hits maybe. And if I did something, I got maybe. And if I did something, I got maybe. And if I did something, I got ahead of it. Then I returned to ahead of it. Then I returned to ahead of it. Then I returned to baseline. If I did something again baseline. If I did something again baseline. If I did something again stimulating, I'd got ahead of it, then I stimulating, I'd got ahead of it, then I stimulating, I'd got ahead of it, then I returned to baseline. But what actually returned to baseline. But what actually returned to baseline. But what actually is happening is I'm doing something is happening is I'm doing something is happening is I'm doing something that's stimulating in some way. I'm that's stimulating in some way. I'm that's stimulating in some way. I'm getting this huge peak, then I'm getting this huge peak, then I'm getting this huge peak, then I'm crashing below baseline for a while. And crashing below baseline for a while. And crashing below baseline for a while. And when I'm below baseline, I'm that's when when I'm below baseline, I'm that's when when I'm below baseline, I'm that's when I'm most likely to want to do something I'm most likely to want to do something I'm most likely to want to do something that's going to give me a hit again. that's going to give me a hit again. that's going to give me a hit again. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> And when I saw that, it reminded me of >> And when I saw that, it reminded me of >> And when I saw that, it reminded me of the CGI monitor, the continuous glucose the CGI monitor, the continuous glucose the CGI monitor, the continuous glucose monitor that I wore because it was a monitor that I wore because it was a monitor that I wore because it was a very similar pattern. If I had a lot of very similar pattern. If I had a lot of very similar pattern. If I had a lot of sugar, I had a big peak, then I crashed sugar, I had a big peak, then I crashed sugar, I had a big peak, then I crashed below my baseline. below my baseline. below my baseline. >> Right? That's a great observation. It's
1:21>> Right? That's a great observation. It's >> Right? That's a great observation. It's the perfect analogy. Perfect analogy the perfect analogy. Perfect analogy the perfect analogy. Perfect analogy because these regulatory systems are all because these regulatory systems are all because these regulatory systems are all about trying to reg maintain about trying to reg maintain about trying to reg maintain homeostasis. We all hear about we learn homeostasis. We all hear about we learn homeostasis. We all hear about we learn about homeostasis like the desire for about homeostasis like the desire for about homeostasis like the desire for balance. That the the human body and balance. That the the human body and balance. That the the human body and human physiology is actually geared more human physiology is actually geared more human physiology is actually geared more towards something called allostasis towards something called allostasis towards something called allostasis which involves kind of stress which involves kind of stress which involves kind of stress modulation. But without getting into too modulation. But without getting into too modulation. But without getting into too many details, you know, these are many details, you know, these are many details, you know, these are dynamic systems, dynamic systems, dynamic systems, meaning brain systems that are designed meaning brain systems that are designed meaning brain systems that are designed to allow us to overcome challenges if to allow us to overcome challenges if to allow us to overcome challenges if need be, right? This is why I always need be, right? This is why I always need be, right? This is why I always push back on the idea that, you know, push back on the idea that, you know, push back on the idea that, you know, stress crashes your immune system. You stress crashes your immune system. You stress crashes your immune system. You know what crashes your immune system? know what crashes your immune system? know what crashes your immune system? Being very, very stressed, working a Being very, very stressed, working a Being very, very stressed, working a lot, a lot, caretaking for someone else, lot, a lot, caretaking for someone else, lot, a lot, caretaking for someone else, and then stopping. You always get sick and then stopping. You always get sick and then stopping. You always get sick when you stop. when you stop. when you stop. >> Why? Because actually stress activates >> Why? Because actually stress activates >> Why? Because actually stress activates the immune system. Makes sense that it the immune system. Makes sense that it the immune system. Makes sense that it would do that evolutionarily, right? And would do that evolutionarily, right? And would do that evolutionarily, right? And then when we rest, boom, our immune then when we rest, boom, our immune then when we rest, boom, our immune system kind of relaxes a little bit and system kind of relaxes a little bit and system kind of relaxes a little bit and then we succumb to that that you know then we succumb to that that you know then we succumb to that that you know that bacteria or virus. So what does it that bacteria or virus. So what does it that bacteria or virus. So what does it mean? It means that we should probably mean? It means that we should probably mean? It means that we should probably learn to modulate. It's like driving a
1:22learn to modulate. It's like driving a learn to modulate. It's like driving a car. Anytime we feel that we're headed car. Anytime we feel that we're headed car. Anytime we feel that we're headed toward or in a peak state, we should toward or in a peak state, we should toward or in a peak state, we should probably kind of like lean back off that probably kind of like lean back off that probably kind of like lean back off that state just a tiny bit. Just a tiny bit. state just a tiny bit. Just a tiny bit. state just a tiny bit. Just a tiny bit. Especially if that peak state is coming Especially if that peak state is coming Especially if that peak state is coming by way of pharmarmacology or some by way of pharmarmacology or some by way of pharmarmacology or some extreme circumstance. Just back off a extreme circumstance. Just back off a extreme circumstance. Just back off a little bit. Maybe a lot. Okay. little bit. Maybe a lot. Okay. little bit. Maybe a lot. Okay. >> So, when we do that, we learn to master >> So, when we do that, we learn to master >> So, when we do that, we learn to master the transition states between these what the transition states between these what the transition states between these what I'm referring to as forward center of I'm referring to as forward center of I'm referring to as forward center of mass, flatfooted, or back on my heels. mass, flatfooted, or back on my heels. mass, flatfooted, or back on my heels. It's a term I learned from a former Navy It's a term I learned from a former Navy It's a term I learned from a former Navy Seal operator. He said, "With anything Seal operator. He said, "With anything Seal operator. He said, "With anything in life, you can either be back on your in life, you can either be back on your in life, you can either be back on your heels, like really challenged, heels, like really challenged, heels, like really challenged, flatfooted, kind of like calm and and flatfooted, kind of like calm and and flatfooted, kind of like calm and and forward, or forward center of mass, like forward, or forward center of mass, like forward, or forward center of mass, like full tilt." I think most people would do full tilt." I think most people would do full tilt." I think most people would do very well to learn to master the very well to learn to master the very well to learn to master the transition states between waking and transition states between waking and transition states between waking and going to sleep, right? Many people can't going to sleep, right? Many people can't going to sleep, right? Many people can't fall asleep. Many people just kind of fall asleep. Many people just kind of fall asleep. Many people just kind of like can't turn it off. You can learn like can't turn it off. You can learn like can't turn it off. You can learn how to do that by doing things like how to do that by doing things like how to do that by doing things like non-sleep deep rest, some long exhale non-sleep deep rest, some long exhale non-sleep deep rest, some long exhale breathing. Simple self-directed zerocost breathing. Simple self-directed zerocost breathing. Simple self-directed zerocost tools that help adjust your autonomic tools that help adjust your autonomic tools that help adjust your autonomic nervous system to be more what we call
1:23nervous system to be more what we call nervous system to be more what we call parasympathetic, more rest and digest. parasympathetic, more rest and digest. parasympathetic, more rest and digest. Just long exhales might not work the Just long exhales might not work the Just long exhales might not work the first time, but over time these become first time, but over time these become first time, but over time these become very effective tools to self-direct the very effective tools to self-direct the very effective tools to self-direct the shift from forward center of mass to shift from forward center of mass to shift from forward center of mass to flatfooted to just kind of laying back flatfooted to just kind of laying back flatfooted to just kind of laying back back on your heels. And there you go. back on your heels. And there you go. back on your heels. And there you go. you're off to sleep when you wake up in you're off to sleep when you wake up in you're off to sleep when you wake up in the morning. Some people are just the morning. Some people are just the morning. Some people are just depleted. Maybe you didn't sleep enough, depleted. Maybe you didn't sleep enough, depleted. Maybe you didn't sleep enough, but learning to get forward center of but learning to get forward center of but learning to get forward center of mass shouldn't require, you know, excess mass shouldn't require, you know, excess mass shouldn't require, you know, excess caffeine and stimulants and super loud caffeine and stimulants and super loud caffeine and stimulants and super loud music and uh, you know, a shocking text music and uh, you know, a shocking text music and uh, you know, a shocking text or email. Ideally, you can transition or email. Ideally, you can transition or email. Ideally, you can transition pretty quickly into being forward center pretty quickly into being forward center pretty quickly into being forward center of mass, but not full tilt forward of mass, but not full tilt forward of mass, but not full tilt forward center of mass. And why do I say this? I center of mass. And why do I say this? I center of mass. And why do I say this? I think for anyone who seeks to be think for anyone who seeks to be think for anyone who seeks to be successful in any domain, academics, successful in any domain, academics, successful in any domain, academics, business, creative endeavors, whatever, business, creative endeavors, whatever, business, creative endeavors, whatever, if you want to have a long arc life and if you want to have a long arc life and if you want to have a long arc life and a long arc career, you really strive to a long arc career, you really strive to a long arc career, you really strive to control these transition states. And control these transition states. And control these transition states. And when I say control, all it really takes when I say control, all it really takes when I say control, all it really takes is paying attention to them and paying is paying attention to them and paying is paying attention to them and paying attention to the fact that yes, some attention to the fact that yes, some attention to the fact that yes, some people just have inherently more energy.
1:24people just have inherently more energy. people just have inherently more energy. They can do every single workout at max They can do every single workout at max They can do every single workout at max output, then shower, they're talking in output, then shower, they're talking in output, then shower, they're talking in the gym, then they're off to the Some the gym, then they're off to the Some the gym, then they're off to the Some people are like that. Some people like people are like that. Some people like people are like that. Some people like myself, if I give a 100% to something in myself, if I give a 100% to something in myself, if I give a 100% to something in the morning, by the afternoon I'm a the morning, by the afternoon I'm a the morning, by the afternoon I'm a little bit depleted. So, I require a 10 little bit depleted. So, I require a 10 little bit depleted. So, I require a 10 or 20 minute non-sleep deep rest or a or 20 minute non-sleep deep rest or a or 20 minute non-sleep deep rest or a nap or just some quiet long exhale nap or just some quiet long exhale nap or just some quiet long exhale breathing. Maybe a little bit of breathing. Maybe a little bit of breathing. Maybe a little bit of caffeine, which I'm drinking now. I caffeine, which I'm drinking now. I caffeine, which I'm drinking now. I mean, there's nothing wrong with healthy mean, there's nothing wrong with healthy mean, there's nothing wrong with healthy stimulants provided they're consumed in stimulants provided they're consumed in stimulants provided they're consumed in moderation. Maybe an energy drink. Those moderation. Maybe an energy drink. Those moderation. Maybe an energy drink. Those can be great too for some people. And can be great too for some people. And can be great too for some people. And then, you know, really going like full then, you know, really going like full then, you know, really going like full tilt, focusing one's attention. And then tilt, focusing one's attention. And then tilt, focusing one's attention. And then afterwards taking a few moments, just afterwards taking a few moments, just afterwards taking a few moments, just moments to downshift. I think we hear so moments to downshift. I think we hear so moments to downshift. I think we hear so much about the power of meditation or much about the power of meditation or much about the power of meditation or non-sleep deep rest or ice baths. What non-sleep deep rest or ice baths. What non-sleep deep rest or ice baths. What do what do cold plunges and cold showers do what do cold plunges and cold showers do what do cold plunges and cold showers do? They stimulate the release of what do? They stimulate the release of what do? They stimulate the release of what the catakolamines, dopamine, the catakolamines, dopamine, the catakolamines, dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, long epinephrine, norepinephrine, long epinephrine, norepinephrine, long duration release. That's why it's useful duration release. That's why it's useful duration release. That's why it's useful in my opinion. For all the debate about in my opinion. For all the debate about in my opinion. For all the debate about deliberate cold exposure, does it deliberate cold exposure, does it deliberate cold exposure, does it increase metabolism? Does it not? The increase metabolism? Does it not? The increase metabolism? Does it not? The answer seems to be probably not much, answer seems to be probably not much, answer seems to be probably not much, but it's absolutely clear that it causes
1:25but it's absolutely clear that it causes but it's absolutely clear that it causes a huge increase in adrenaline, dopamine, a huge increase in adrenaline, dopamine, a huge increase in adrenaline, dopamine, and norepinephrine that are very and norepinephrine that are very and norepinephrine that are very longlasting, and that makes you feel longlasting, and that makes you feel longlasting, and that makes you feel great, especially when you get out of great, especially when you get out of great, especially when you get out of the cold. the cold. the cold. >> And I think that's the value of it. It >> And I think that's the value of it. It >> And I think that's the value of it. It also saves you on your heating bill. also saves you on your heating bill. also saves you on your heating bill. Like you don't have to have a cold Like you don't have to have a cold Like you don't have to have a cold plunge, you take a cold shower. Nobody plunge, you take a cold shower. Nobody plunge, you take a cold shower. Nobody likes it, but the point is you get out likes it, but the point is you get out likes it, but the point is you get out and you feel different. It's a state and you feel different. It's a state and you feel different. It's a state shift. So that's great, but you don't shift. So that's great, but you don't shift. So that's great, but you don't want to do it to excess because then you want to do it to excess because then you want to do it to excess because then you know for instance people always say how know for instance people always say how know for instance people always say how long should I go in the cold plunger long should I go in the cold plunger long should I go in the cold plunger cold shower and I say do it the minimum cold shower and I say do it the minimum cold shower and I say do it the minimum amount so that you get the effect that amount so that you get the effect that amount so that you get the effect that you're seeking which is to be more alert you're seeking which is to be more alert you're seeking which is to be more alert and motivated. I have a friend he did 30 and motivated. I have a friend he did 30 and motivated. I have a friend he did 30 minutes for some reason naked. He said I minutes for some reason naked. He said I minutes for some reason naked. He said I did 30 minutes naked in the coal plunge did 30 minutes naked in the coal plunge did 30 minutes naked in the coal plunge and then I got sick and I'm feeling and then I got sick and I'm feeling and then I got sick and I'm feeling really low. And I'm like because you did really low. And I'm like because you did really low. And I'm like because you did 30 minutes. I mean I don't know about 30 minutes. I mean I don't know about 30 minutes. I mean I don't know about the naked part what that had to do with the naked part what that had to do with the naked part what that had to do with it but he had to throw that in there. it but he had to throw that in there. it but he had to throw that in there. experience kind of an extreme guy. And experience kind of an extreme guy. And experience kind of an extreme guy. And I said, "How about 1 minute? How about I said, "How about 1 minute? How about I said, "How about 1 minute? How about 30 seconds? How about don't even pay 30 seconds? How about don't even pay 30 seconds? How about don't even pay attention to the time. Just get in and attention to the time. Just get in and attention to the time. Just get in and stay in as long as until you want to get
1:26stay in as long as until you want to get stay in as long as until you want to get out and then push through that barrier out and then push through that barrier out and then push through that barrier and then get out. That might be a and then get out. That might be a and then get out. That might be a minute, might be 3 minutes. You know, minute, might be 3 minutes. You know, minute, might be 3 minutes. You know, protect yourself, be safe, but just protect yourself, be safe, but just protect yourself, be safe, but just learn to overcome some challenge and learn to overcome some challenge and learn to overcome some challenge and then get out." You know, we have this then get out." You know, we have this then get out." You know, we have this fixation that more is better and more is fixation that more is better and more is fixation that more is better and more is not better. You want the minimal not better. You want the minimal not better. You want the minimal effective dose, maybe a little bit more effective dose, maybe a little bit more effective dose, maybe a little bit more because we don't know where minimal is. because we don't know where minimal is. because we don't know where minimal is. People say, "How many sets in the gym is People say, "How many sets in the gym is People say, "How many sets in the gym is it?" You know, now it's like all about it?" You know, now it's like all about it?" You know, now it's like all about the volume hypertrophy or like I've the volume hypertrophy or like I've the volume hypertrophy or like I've always fairly low recovery quotient. So, always fairly low recovery quotient. So, always fairly low recovery quotient. So, for me, I like to do a couple warm-ups, for me, I like to do a couple warm-ups, for me, I like to do a couple warm-ups, a few hard sets, two or three hard sets. a few hard sets, two or three hard sets. a few hard sets, two or three hard sets. Another exercise, two or three hard Another exercise, two or three hard Another exercise, two or three hard sets. That's it for that muscle group. sets. That's it for that muscle group. sets. That's it for that muscle group. Move on. People always say, "Well, Move on. People always say, "Well, Move on. People always say, "Well, volume is where?" Okay, great. But when volume is where?" Okay, great. But when volume is where?" Okay, great. But when I do 16 to 20 sets per week per muscle I do 16 to 20 sets per week per muscle I do 16 to 20 sets per week per muscle group, I'll tell you I I'm depleted. It group, I'll tell you I I'm depleted. It group, I'll tell you I I'm depleted. It doesn't work for me. And I sort of um doesn't work for me. And I sort of um doesn't work for me. And I sort of um well, I'll just be honest. I kind of well, I'll just be honest. I kind of well, I'll just be honest. I kind of chuckle at the exercise scientists who chuckle at the exercise scientists who chuckle at the exercise scientists who say, "Well, this is the way it is in say, "Well, this is the way it is in say, "Well, this is the way it is in this study." Great. That's not how it this study." Great. That's not how it this study." Great. That's not how it works for me. And even though I'm a works for me. And even though I'm a works for me. And even though I'm a scientist and I trust data, I also trust
1:27scientist and I trust data, I also trust scientist and I trust data, I also trust my own experience. And no one's going to my own experience. And no one's going to my own experience. And no one's going to tell me that it's placebo because it's tell me that it's placebo because it's tell me that it's placebo because it's what's worked for me. So, I think that what's worked for me. So, I think that what's worked for me. So, I think that you have to find what your capabilities you have to find what your capabilities you have to find what your capabilities are. And I do think if you look at dog are. And I do think if you look at dog are. And I do think if you look at dog breeds of which I'm obsessed by. breeds of which I'm obsessed by. breeds of which I'm obsessed by. >> If you go to a dog show, which everyone >> If you go to a dog show, which everyone >> If you go to a dog show, which everyone should go to a dog show once, but don't should go to a dog show once, but don't should go to a dog show once, but don't watch the show, go behind the show where watch the show, go behind the show where watch the show, go behind the show where you see all the different dog breeds. you see all the different dog breeds. you see all the different dog breeds. What you'll see is what I saw the first What you'll see is what I saw the first What you'll see is what I saw the first time I did that. You have dogs where time I did that. You have dogs where time I did that. You have dogs where they're wagging their tail all the time. they're wagging their tail all the time. they're wagging their tail all the time. They're super excited. They're alert. They're super excited. They're alert. They're super excited. They're alert. You can see their eyes, right? They're You can see their eyes, right? They're You can see their eyes, right? They're just brighteyed. You can see the Great just brighteyed. You can see the Great just brighteyed. You can see the Great Danes. They're super still. And then my Danes. They're super still. And then my Danes. They're super still. And then my favorite breed and the reason I own them favorite breed and the reason I own them favorite breed and the reason I own them is the bulldog. The essence of economy is the bulldog. The essence of economy is the bulldog. The essence of economy of effort. They don't even lift their of effort. They don't even lift their of effort. They don't even lift their head off the ground. You walk over, you head off the ground. You walk over, you head off the ground. You walk over, you pet them, they'll like look up at you. pet them, they'll like look up at you. pet them, they'll like look up at you. They might wink. Very still animals. They might wink. Very still animals. They might wink. Very still animals. Very powerful, but very still animals. Very powerful, but very still animals. Very powerful, but very still animals. Now, I'm not wired like that, as you're Now, I'm not wired like that, as you're Now, I'm not wired like that, as you're probably getting the impression. I have probably getting the impression. I have probably getting the impression. I have a little bit more spontaneous movement, a little bit more spontaneous movement, a little bit more spontaneous movement, etc. So, I need a lot of mental and etc. So, I need a lot of mental and etc. So, I need a lot of mental and physical stimulation in order to be physical stimulation in order to be physical stimulation in order to be happy, in order to feel fulfilled. So
1:28happy, in order to feel fulfilled. So happy, in order to feel fulfilled. So for me there was a lot of work and I for me there was a lot of work and I for me there was a lot of work and I still do a lot of work in order to learn still do a lot of work in order to learn still do a lot of work in order to learn how to downshift take it down become a how to downshift take it down become a how to downshift take it down become a good sleeper become a good resetter good sleeper become a good resetter good sleeper become a good resetter reset myself during the middle of the reset myself during the middle of the reset myself during the middle of the day with things like non-sleep deep rest day with things like non-sleep deep rest day with things like non-sleep deep rest which for me has been one of the most which for me has been one of the most which for me has been one of the most powerful tools or long exhale breathing powerful tools or long exhale breathing powerful tools or long exhale breathing to just bring myself down. Other people to just bring myself down. Other people to just bring myself down. Other people they tend to have a little bit less they tend to have a little bit less they tend to have a little bit less energy than life demands of them. So energy than life demands of them. So energy than life demands of them. So they need to do a bit more cold shower a they need to do a bit more cold shower a they need to do a bit more cold shower a little bit more caffeine but then those little bit more caffeine but then those little bit more caffeine but then those people probably need a little bit more people probably need a little bit more people probably need a little bit more rest. They're like the bulldogs of life. rest. They're like the bulldogs of life. rest. They're like the bulldogs of life. I think even though we're all the same I think even though we're all the same I think even though we're all the same species just like dogs, there's a lot of species just like dogs, there's a lot of species just like dogs, there's a lot of variation there. So you have to know variation there. So you have to know variation there. So you have to know thyself as the oracle said, thyself as the oracle said, thyself as the oracle said, understanding a little bit about the understanding a little bit about the understanding a little bit about the catakolamines, understanding that catakolamines, understanding that catakolamines, understanding that certain things like exercise, deliberate certain things like exercise, deliberate certain things like exercise, deliberate cold exposure, stimulants like caffeine cold exposure, stimulants like caffeine cold exposure, stimulants like caffeine and prescription drugs like aderall, and prescription drugs like aderall, and prescription drugs like aderall, etc. powerfully cause the release of etc. powerfully cause the release of etc. powerfully cause the release of these catakolamines, dopamine, these catakolamines, dopamine, these catakolamines, dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine, leading epinephrine, and norepinephrine, leading epinephrine, and norepinephrine, leading to big increases in energy and focus. to big increases in energy and focus. to big increases in energy and focus. Then always always always there's a cost Then always always always there's a cost Then always always always there's a cost a trough that follows accept that relax
1:29a trough that follows accept that relax a trough that follows accept that relax through it then return to baseline and through it then return to baseline and through it then return to baseline and then go forward or avoid those things then go forward or avoid those things then go forward or avoid those things altogether I'm not telling people what altogether I'm not telling people what altogether I'm not telling people what to do obviously the prescription drug to do obviously the prescription drug to do obviously the prescription drug thing in particular can be you know thing in particular can be you know thing in particular can be you know problematic for some people even problematic for some people even problematic for some people even addictive and certainly I'm not a fan of addictive and certainly I'm not a fan of addictive and certainly I'm not a fan of drugs of abuse like cocaine amphetamine drugs of abuse like cocaine amphetamine drugs of abuse like cocaine amphetamine absolutely categorically never done them absolutely categorically never done them absolutely categorically never done them never will never will never will and then other people who tend to veer and then other people who tend to veer and then other people who tend to veer toward you being hyperactivated, a lot toward you being hyperactivated, a lot toward you being hyperactivated, a lot of spontaneous movement. These people of spontaneous movement. These people of spontaneous movement. These people tend to be a little bit thinner, a tend to be a little bit thinner, a tend to be a little bit thinner, a little bit leaner, or just have a ton of little bit leaner, or just have a ton of little bit leaner, or just have a ton of natural energy. Um, these people should natural energy. Um, these people should natural energy. Um, these people should really learn to incorporate more kind of really learn to incorporate more kind of really learn to incorporate more kind of what I would call calming and relaxing what I would call calming and relaxing what I would call calming and relaxing practices. Maybe a bit more sauna than practices. Maybe a bit more sauna than practices. Maybe a bit more sauna than cold plunge. Maybe don't crank the sauna cold plunge. Maybe don't crank the sauna cold plunge. Maybe don't crank the sauna to 220. to 220. to 220. You know, I find myself doing that. Like You know, I find myself doing that. Like You know, I find myself doing that. Like just relax, like enjoy the sauna. And so just relax, like enjoy the sauna. And so just relax, like enjoy the sauna. And so I think the key to a good life and a I think the key to a good life and a I think the key to a good life and a productive life is again to learn to productive life is again to learn to productive life is again to learn to master the transition states. Understand master the transition states. Understand master the transition states. Understand some of the biology and to really know
1:30some of the biology and to really know some of the biology and to really know yourself not just your natural tendency yourself not just your natural tendency yourself not just your natural tendency more bulldog like versus you know uh I more bulldog like versus you know uh I more bulldog like versus you know uh I don't know pit bulls always have their don't know pit bulls always have their don't know pit bulls always have their tail going a lot of spontaneous tail going a lot of spontaneous tail going a lot of spontaneous movement. Uh there are other breeds as movement. Uh there are other breeds as movement. Uh there are other breeds as well. But also know that on any given well. But also know that on any given well. But also know that on any given day you may be more or less rested. you day you may be more or less rested. you day you may be more or less rested. you might be more or less depleted from life might be more or less depleted from life might be more or less depleted from life experience and kind of recognize where experience and kind of recognize where experience and kind of recognize where you're at and figure out what's optimal you're at and figure out what's optimal you're at and figure out what's optimal for that day. In fact, I forget who the for that day. In fact, I forget who the for that day. In fact, I forget who the guy is. He's on Instagram and and there guy is. He's on Instagram and and there guy is. He's on Instagram and and there are a lot of self-help account then are a lot of self-help account then are a lot of self-help account then there are a lot of self-help accounts there are a lot of self-help accounts there are a lot of self-help accounts out there. But one of the best things out there. But one of the best things out there. But one of the best things that um I've heard recently and I try that um I've heard recently and I try that um I've heard recently and I try and incorporate it in uh into my life. and incorporate it in uh into my life. and incorporate it in uh into my life. In fact, it's in my notebook is when I In fact, it's in my notebook is when I In fact, it's in my notebook is when I wake up in the morning, I sort of take wake up in the morning, I sort of take wake up in the morning, I sort of take stock of where I am in terms of how stock of where I am in terms of how stock of where I am in terms of how rested I am. I certainly take stock of rested I am. I certainly take stock of rested I am. I certainly take stock of what I need to do that day and then I what I need to do that day and then I what I need to do that day and then I ask what's something that I can do to ask what's something that I can do to ask what's something that I can do to make my life that day and the life of make my life that day and the life of make my life that day and the life of others others others better. Sometimes that means rest a better. Sometimes that means rest a better. Sometimes that means rest a little bit more. Sometimes that means little bit more. Sometimes that means little bit more. Sometimes that means push a little bit more. Sometimes that push a little bit more. Sometimes that push a little bit more. Sometimes that means call a relative that you haven't means call a relative that you haven't means call a relative that you haven't spoken to. But thinking about how to
1:31spoken to. But thinking about how to spoken to. But thinking about how to make things better on the time scale of make things better on the time scale of make things better on the time scale of a day for oneself and for others, I a day for oneself and for others, I a day for oneself and for others, I think is what's manageable and it's think is what's manageable and it's think is what's manageable and it's what's realistic. And it takes this what's realistic. And it takes this what's realistic. And it takes this whole concept of protocols and whole concept of protocols and whole concept of protocols and biohacking and prescription drugs and biohacking and prescription drugs and biohacking and prescription drugs and supplements and workouts and it and it supplements and workouts and it and it supplements and workouts and it and it brings a real world perspective to it. brings a real world perspective to it. brings a real world perspective to it. So, I think we're living in the um in So, I think we're living in the um in So, I think we're living in the um in the time of kind of um almost avatars of the time of kind of um almost avatars of the time of kind of um almost avatars of these different things. Like I think these different things. Like I think these different things. Like I think about David Gogggins, who I know well about David Gogggins, who I know well about David Gogggins, who I know well from the perspective of coworker, right, from the perspective of coworker, right, from the perspective of coworker, right, where I consider him a friend, but we've where I consider him a friend, but we've where I consider him a friend, but we've never hung out outside of the work never hung out outside of the work never hung out outside of the work context, but I first met David back in context, but I first met David back in context, but I first met David back in 2016. And I'll tell you, he's always 2016. And I'll tell you, he's always 2016. And I'll tell you, he's always that way. At least when I've interacted that way. At least when I've interacted that way. At least when I've interacted with him, he's with him, he's with him, he's always been, you know, forward center of always been, you know, forward center of always been, you know, forward center of mass. It was late in the day on a work. mass. It was late in the day on a work. mass. It was late in the day on a work. This was a thing in Silicon Valley. It This was a thing in Silicon Valley. It This was a thing in Silicon Valley. It was down in San Jose um Santa Clara, San was down in San Jose um Santa Clara, San was down in San Jose um Santa Clara, San Jose area in I believe it was 2016. And Jose area in I believe it was 2016. And Jose area in I believe it was 2016. And we had been working all day in this part we had been working all day in this part we had been working all day in this part of this consult for this company. And in of this consult for this company. And in of this consult for this company. And in the afternoon, you know, there was like, the afternoon, you know, there was like, the afternoon, you know, there was like, do we take a break or do we push? He's
1:32do we take a break or do we push? He's do we take a break or do we push? He's like, no, we push. We're going to do like, no, we push. We're going to do like, no, we push. We're going to do this. And I thought, whoa, like this this. And I thought, whoa, like this this. And I thought, whoa, like this guy's intense. And he was changing guy's intense. And he was changing guy's intense. And he was changing because he was going to run to the because he was going to run to the because he was going to run to the airport, but not run to the airport in airport, but not run to the airport in airport, but not run to the airport in an Uber or drive to the airport. He an Uber or drive to the airport. He an Uber or drive to the airport. He meant run to the airport and he did. So, meant run to the airport and he did. So, meant run to the airport and he did. So, you know, he's forward center of mass. you know, he's forward center of mass. you know, he's forward center of mass. He clearly has the energy or he's found He clearly has the energy or he's found He clearly has the energy or he's found the energy. the energy. the energy. >> Can you train that? >> Can you train that? >> Can you train that? >> Can you raise your sort of baseline >> Can you raise your sort of baseline >> Can you raise your sort of baseline dopamine level? dopamine level? dopamine level? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> or are they two separate questions? >> or are they two separate questions? >> or are they two separate questions? >> It's a great question. I don't know that >> It's a great question. I don't know that >> It's a great question. I don't know that we have the answer. I think you can if we have the answer. I think you can if we have the answer. I think you can if you become more economical about you become more economical about you become more economical about whatever whatever whatever dopamine or other neurochemicals you dopamine or other neurochemicals you dopamine or other neurochemicals you happen to harbor inside. We know there's happen to harbor inside. We know there's happen to harbor inside. We know there's a lot of genetic and individual a lot of genetic and individual a lot of genetic and individual variation to these things. You know, variation to these things. You know, variation to these things. You know, there's a joke among parents, right? there's a joke among parents, right? there's a joke among parents, right? Like how they come out is how they stay Like how they come out is how they stay Like how they come out is how they stay like the the mellow kid, the mellow baby like the the mellow kid, the mellow baby like the the mellow kid, the mellow baby that didn't cry [clears throat] much. that didn't cry [clears throat] much. that didn't cry [clears throat] much. The happy baby remains the happy person. The happy baby remains the happy person. The happy baby remains the happy person. You know, there are circumstances that You know, there are circumstances that You know, there are circumstances that can alter that versus the fussy baby can alter that versus the fussy baby can alter that versus the fussy baby that's always fussy as even as an adult. that's always fussy as even as an adult. that's always fussy as even as an adult. You know, parents talk this way, but You know, parents talk this way, but You know, parents talk this way, but parents say all sorts of things. Um, but
1:33parents say all sorts of things. Um, but parents say all sorts of things. Um, but you know, I know people for instance you know, I know people for instance you know, I know people for instance like Rick Rubin for for instance, who is like Rick Rubin for for instance, who is like Rick Rubin for for instance, who is very high energy but very calm. It's very high energy but very calm. It's very high energy but very calm. It's part of Rick's magic. He knows how to part of Rick's magic. He knows how to part of Rick's magic. He knows how to regulate and control his energy. He has regulate and control his energy. He has regulate and control his energy. He has this uncanny capacity to get near things this uncanny capacity to get near things this uncanny capacity to get near things in particular um art, music, and to in particular um art, music, and to in particular um art, music, and to experience them, really feel them, but experience them, really feel them, but experience them, really feel them, but not get absorbed by it. Not feel, at not get absorbed by it. Not feel, at not get absorbed by it. Not feel, at least to my my knowledge, depleted by least to my my knowledge, depleted by least to my my knowledge, depleted by it. Some people get kind of absorbed by it. Some people get kind of absorbed by it. Some people get kind of absorbed by things and then depleted. things and then depleted. things and then depleted. >> Is this like the introvert extrovert >> Is this like the introvert extrovert >> Is this like the introvert extrovert conversation as well? Because two people conversation as well? Because two people conversation as well? Because two people can be in the same room and I I mean I'm can be in the same room and I I mean I'm can be in the same room and I I mean I'm I consider myself to be a bit of an I consider myself to be a bit of an I consider myself to be a bit of an extrovert. Sorry, introvert where if I extrovert. Sorry, introvert where if I extrovert. Sorry, introvert where if I stand in a room for two to three hours stand in a room for two to three hours stand in a room for two to three hours doing small talk. I I the way I describe doing small talk. I I the way I describe doing small talk. I I the way I describe it, it's like my brain feels fried. it, it's like my brain feels fried. it, it's like my brain feels fried. >> Whereas my assistant Sophie, it's like >> Whereas my assistant Sophie, it's like >> Whereas my assistant Sophie, it's like you've poured fuel into her. you've poured fuel into her. you've poured fuel into her. >> Yeah. I'm similar to you and um I have >> Yeah. I'm similar to you and um I have >> Yeah. I'm similar to you and um I have an ex-girlfriend who loved parties. She an ex-girlfriend who loved parties. She an ex-girlfriend who loved parties. She would just get so much energy from would just get so much energy from would just get so much energy from parties and I like certain parties, but
1:34parties and I like certain parties, but parties and I like certain parties, but I like the the small conversation I I like the the small conversation I I like the the small conversation I might have at a party. Um, so that might have at a party. Um, so that might have at a party. Um, so that resonates with me. I think we can shift resonates with me. I think we can shift resonates with me. I think we can shift well to answer the introvert extrovert well to answer the introvert extrovert well to answer the introvert extrovert question. I do think that some people question. I do think that some people question. I do think that some people get energy from social interactions, get energy from social interactions, get energy from social interactions, other people less so. But I know people other people less so. But I know people other people less so. But I know people who are quite quiet who like social who are quite quiet who like social who are quite quiet who like social interactions. They're just more an interactions. They're just more an interactions. They're just more an observer in those interactions as observer in those interactions as observer in those interactions as opposed to a participant. The introvert opposed to a participant. The introvert opposed to a participant. The introvert extrovert thing also, at least my extrovert thing also, at least my extrovert thing also, at least my understanding of the science is that it understanding of the science is that it understanding of the science is that it depends a bit on how quickly you fill up depends a bit on how quickly you fill up depends a bit on how quickly you fill up with social engagement. Like I I like a with social engagement. Like I I like a with social engagement. Like I I like a good party, but after a couple hours I'm good party, but after a couple hours I'm good party, but after a couple hours I'm like done, you know, and other people like done, you know, and other people like done, you know, and other people they can just go go go go go. They get they can just go go go go go. They get they can just go go go go go. They get more energy from it. I think, you know, more energy from it. I think, you know, more energy from it. I think, you know, we think of Gogggins as kind of an we think of Gogggins as kind of an we think of Gogggins as kind of an iconic example because he is of somebody iconic example because he is of somebody iconic example because he is of somebody who is capable of pushing himself who is capable of pushing himself who is capable of pushing himself regardless of what the internal regardless of what the internal regardless of what the internal narratives might be. That's my sense narratives might be. That's my sense narratives might be. That's my sense having spoken to him about it on my having spoken to him about it on my having spoken to him about it on my podcast and observed him on social media podcast and observed him on social media podcast and observed him on social media and other podcasts. Some people like
1:35and other podcasts. Some people like and other podcasts. Some people like Jaco Willink embody the don't even think Jaco Willink embody the don't even think Jaco Willink embody the don't even think about it. You do it because it's 4:30 in about it. You do it because it's 4:30 in about it. You do it because it's 4:30 in the morning and at 4:30 in the morning the morning and at 4:30 in the morning the morning and at 4:30 in the morning you work out. Like don't think do. Um you work out. Like don't think do. Um you work out. Like don't think do. Um whereas when I think of David I think of whereas when I think of David I think of whereas when I think of David I think of many things but in particular about many things but in particular about many things but in particular about overcoming the voice in the mind that's overcoming the voice in the mind that's overcoming the voice in the mind that's trying to pull you down and defeating trying to pull you down and defeating trying to pull you down and defeating that in fact having multiple that in fact having multiple that in fact having multiple representations of self in the brain representations of self in the brain representations of self in the brain which is a fascinating thing unto which is a fascinating thing unto which is a fascinating thing unto itself. And then when I think about itself. And then when I think about itself. And then when I think about Rick, I think, you know, Rick is I Rick, I think, you know, Rick is I Rick, I think, you know, Rick is I iconic in my mind for his sense of iconic in my mind for his sense of iconic in my mind for his sense of creativity, his ability to sense what is creativity, his ability to sense what is creativity, his ability to sense what is truly new and unique. He has incredible truly new and unique. He has incredible truly new and unique. He has incredible taste, right? To really be able to sense taste, right? To really be able to sense taste, right? To really be able to sense like this is new and different and like this is new and different and like this is new and different and exciting and he seems to understand exciting and he seems to understand exciting and he seems to understand without trying to seek what people are without trying to seek what people are without trying to seek what people are going to like, what people inevitably going to like, what people inevitably going to like, what people inevitably love. So that's his one of his many love. So that's his one of his many love. So that's his one of his many superpowers. And everyone has their superpowers. And everyone has their superpowers. And everyone has their superpower. Those are just so extremes. superpower. Those are just so extremes. superpower. Those are just so extremes. I think of Lex Freiedman as somebody who
1:36I think of Lex Freiedman as somebody who I think of Lex Freiedman as somebody who is so thoughtful. And I mean, I don't is so thoughtful. And I mean, I don't is so thoughtful. And I mean, I don't think people really understand just how think people really understand just how think people really understand just how hard Lex thinks about the tragedies of hard Lex thinks about the tragedies of hard Lex thinks about the tragedies of the world, the darkness in the world, the world, the darkness in the world, the world, the darkness in the world, but also the love that's in the world. I but also the love that's in the world. I but also the love that's in the world. I mean, he really like hyper affiliates mean, he really like hyper affiliates mean, he really like hyper affiliates with what's happening in his mind and with what's happening in his mind and with what's happening in his mind and he's able to really like absorb himself he's able to really like absorb himself he's able to really like absorb himself in that and you can feel like his his in that and you can feel like his his in that and you can feel like his his like he gets right up next to the fire like he gets right up next to the fire like he gets right up next to the fire like right up next to these things and I like right up next to these things and I like right up next to these things and I think he represents the kind of iconic think he represents the kind of iconic think he represents the kind of iconic example of an explorer who will look example of an explorer who will look example of an explorer who will look anywhere even if people are going to anywhere even if people are going to anywhere even if people are going to give him a hard time for it but I think give him a hard time for it but I think give him a hard time for it but I think mostly people celebrate him for it mostly people celebrate him for it mostly people celebrate him for it >> you know so I think you know different >> you know so I think you know different >> you know so I think you know different people have different lens lenses on people have different lens lenses on people have different lens lenses on life and different capacities. I think life and different capacities. I think life and different capacities. I think if one wants to increase their baseline if one wants to increase their baseline if one wants to increase their baseline level of dopamine, I think it's level of dopamine, I think it's level of dopamine, I think it's important to regulate those peaks and important to regulate those peaks and important to regulate those peaks and troughs. I'm not a believer in like troughs. I'm not a believer in like troughs. I'm not a believer in like never having peaks in dopamine. A great
1:37never having peaks in dopamine. A great never having peaks in dopamine. A great wedding party, like I've been to some wedding party, like I've been to some wedding party, like I've been to some weddings where we just like partied all weddings where we just like partied all weddings where we just like partied all night or great concerts. I'm actually a night or great concerts. I'm actually a night or great concerts. I'm actually a huge fan. It's kind of a a genre of huge fan. It's kind of a a genre of huge fan. It's kind of a a genre of music I don't know much about, but I've music I don't know much about, but I've music I don't know much about, but I've always loved that band James. Do you always loved that band James. Do you always loved that band James. Do you know the band We Are James? Oh, it's so know the band We Are James? Oh, it's so know the band We Are James? Oh, it's so good. Okay, I'm going to lose punk good. Okay, I'm going to lose punk good. Okay, I'm going to lose punk points for saying this, but best live points for saying this, but best live points for saying this, but best live shows ever. Just the best live shows shows ever. Just the best live shows shows ever. Just the best live shows I've ever seen. And I know there are and I've ever seen. And I know there are and I've ever seen. And I know there are and I and I know there are a lot of I and I know there are a lot of I and I know there are a lot of different ideas about best live shows different ideas about best live shows different ideas about best live shows based on genres of music. I just it's based on genres of music. I just it's based on genres of music. I just it's like the best party you've ever been to. like the best party you've ever been to. like the best party you've ever been to. >> And I get a lift in energy that lasts >> And I get a lift in energy that lasts >> And I get a lift in energy that lasts two, three days from that. I don't two, three days from that. I don't two, three days from that. I don't consume any substances at those shows. consume any substances at those shows. consume any substances at those shows. They happen very seldom, but when I've They happen very seldom, but when I've They happen very seldom, but when I've gone for two or three days, I feel like gone for two or three days, I feel like gone for two or three days, I feel like a changed person. It's a marketked shift a changed person. It's a marketked shift a changed person. It's a marketked shift in neurochemical state. And I don't feel in neurochemical state. And I don't feel in neurochemical state. And I don't feel a trough afterwards. So, I want to be a trough afterwards. So, I want to be a trough afterwards. So, I want to be very clear. There are certain things very clear. There are certain things very clear. There are certain things like celebrations, concerts, they seem like celebrations, concerts, they seem like celebrations, concerts, they seem to give us these big surges in to give us these big surges in to give us these big surges in neurochemicals, but they don't leave us neurochemicals, but they don't leave us neurochemicals, but they don't leave us depleted. And I'm very intrigued by
1:38depleted. And I'm very intrigued by depleted. And I'm very intrigued by these experiences because when I look to these experiences because when I look to these experiences because when I look to some examples, I have some friends some examples, I have some friends some examples, I have some friends who've been very successful in the tech who've been very successful in the tech who've been very successful in the tech sector and finance sector. They make a sector and finance sector. They make a sector and finance sector. They make a lot of money and I always worry about lot of money and I always worry about lot of money and I always worry about them afterwards. Inevitably, they end up them afterwards. Inevitably, they end up them afterwards. Inevitably, they end up depressed, not knowing what they want to depressed, not knowing what they want to depressed, not knowing what they want to do. So, I always encourage them to keep do. So, I always encourage them to keep do. So, I always encourage them to keep working. In fact, the happiest people in working. In fact, the happiest people in working. In fact, the happiest people in tech and finance are the ones that keep tech and finance are the ones that keep tech and finance are the ones that keep working even after they get rich. So, working even after they get rich. So, working even after they get rich. So, the people I see who are very happy are the people I see who are very happy are the people I see who are very happy are the people who the people who the people who take stock of their natural levels of take stock of their natural levels of take stock of their natural levels of energy, curiosity, motivation. You know, energy, curiosity, motivation. You know, energy, curiosity, motivation. You know, we could say dopamine, but that's kind we could say dopamine, but that's kind we could say dopamine, but that's kind of a surrogate for a bunch of other of a surrogate for a bunch of other of a surrogate for a bunch of other things. and it's incomplete, right? things. and it's incomplete, right? things. and it's incomplete, right? There are other chemicals involved, but There are other chemicals involved, but There are other chemicals involved, but for sake of conversation, we could say for sake of conversation, we could say for sake of conversation, we could say dopamine, catakolamines, epinephrine, dopamine, catakolamines, epinephrine, dopamine, catakolamines, epinephrine, and they sort of know what they're and they sort of know what they're and they sort of know what they're capable of on a consistent basis. I capable of on a consistent basis. I capable of on a consistent basis. I think one of the best pieces of advice think one of the best pieces of advice think one of the best pieces of advice that I ever got was from a neurologist that I ever got was from a neurologist that I ever got was from a neurologist by the name of Bob Knight when I was a by the name of Bob Knight when I was a by the name of Bob Knight when I was a graduate student. He said, "Figure out graduate student. He said, "Figure out graduate student. He said, "Figure out how much work you can do over the course how much work you can do over the course how much work you can do over the course of the next four to five years on a
1:39of the next four to five years on a of the next four to five years on a consistent basis because it's going to consistent basis because it's going to consistent basis because it's going to change as you get older. Might not even change as you get older. Might not even change as you get older. Might not even go down." go down." go down." So, for instance, I know that I can work So, for instance, I know that I can work So, for instance, I know that I can work a good solid 12 hours a day. That's me. a good solid 12 hours a day. That's me. a good solid 12 hours a day. That's me. 12 hours a day, five maybe six days a 12 hours a day, five maybe six days a 12 hours a day, five maybe six days a week, but I like one full day off per week, but I like one full day off per week, but I like one full day off per week. I I just like that. Typically, week. I I just like that. Typically, week. I I just like that. Typically, it's Sunday for me. I'll do some it's Sunday for me. I'll do some it's Sunday for me. I'll do some exercise and some other things, but if I exercise and some other things, but if I exercise and some other things, but if I try and go 15 hours a day or 12 hours a try and go 15 hours a day or 12 hours a try and go 15 hours a day or 12 hours a day, seven days a week, I'm going to run day, seven days a week, I'm going to run day, seven days a week, I'm going to run a ground. For other people, they need to a ground. For other people, they need to a ground. For other people, they need to work less. And now, some people will work less. And now, some people will work less. And now, some people will say, "Okay, but do you have kids?" And say, "Okay, but do you have kids?" And say, "Okay, but do you have kids?" And this and that. I'm not saying what work this and that. I'm not saying what work this and that. I'm not saying what work means. It could be career. It could be means. It could be career. It could be means. It could be career. It could be family or both. But I'm not somebody who family or both. But I'm not somebody who family or both. But I'm not somebody who has an infinite amount of energy, but I has an infinite amount of energy, but I has an infinite amount of energy, but I have a lot of energy. If you have less have a lot of energy. If you have less have a lot of energy. If you have less energy, you can do things like try and energy, you can do things like try and energy, you can do things like try and get great sleep, try and eat as well as get great sleep, try and eat as well as get great sleep, try and eat as well as you possibly can. You may have to do you possibly can. You may have to do you possibly can. You may have to do more to get more energy, but you sort of more to get more energy, but you sort of more to get more energy, but you sort of have to accept your own um kind of have to accept your own um kind of have to accept your own um kind of baseline state. And I think I certainly baseline state. And I think I certainly baseline state. And I think I certainly know many people who are like mellower, know many people who are like mellower, know many people who are like mellower, calmer, have quote unquote less energy.
1:40calmer, have quote unquote less energy. calmer, have quote unquote less energy. They're just more efficient with that They're just more efficient with that They're just more efficient with that energy. They place it correctly. They're energy. They place it correctly. They're energy. They place it correctly. They're not wasting their energy. I know people not wasting their energy. I know people not wasting their energy. I know people that can scroll Instagram all the time, that can scroll Instagram all the time, that can scroll Instagram all the time, talk about what's going on on Twitter, talk about what's going on on Twitter, talk about what's going on on Twitter, watch three podcast, program, and do a watch three podcast, program, and do a watch three podcast, program, and do a million things. I'm like, they're fine. million things. I'm like, they're fine. million things. I'm like, they're fine. >> So, I think we have to know where our >> So, I think we have to know where our >> So, I think we have to know where our groove is and that we can deviate from groove is and that we can deviate from groove is and that we can deviate from that about 15 to 20%. But anything more that about 15 to 20%. But anything more that about 15 to 20%. But anything more extreme than that, we're going to end up extreme than that, we're going to end up extreme than that, we're going to end up in trouble. I think a lot of the reason in trouble. I think a lot of the reason in trouble. I think a lot of the reason why people are curious about dopamine is why people are curious about dopamine is why people are curious about dopamine is because for ultimately they want to be because for ultimately they want to be because for ultimately they want to be more productive or effective at some more productive or effective at some more productive or effective at some goal they have in their life. So it goal they have in their life. So it goal they have in their life. So it might be building a business, it could might be building a business, it could might be building a business, it could be some it could be a podcast, whatever. be some it could be a podcast, whatever. be some it could be a podcast, whatever. So taking everything you know about So taking everything you know about So taking everything you know about dopamine and how it works. if you were dopamine and how it works. if you were dopamine and how it works. if you were giving me advice on how I could be a giving me advice on how I could be a giving me advice on how I could be a better entrepreneur, podcaster, better entrepreneur, podcaster, better entrepreneur, podcaster, whatever. Um, the first thing I got from whatever. Um, the first thing I got from whatever. Um, the first thing I got from you was really about this idea of you was really about this idea of you was really about this idea of transitioning between states and also transitioning between states and also transitioning between states and also allowing time for my reserves to allowing time for my reserves to allowing time for my reserves to replenish after a high dopamine replenish after a high dopamine replenish after a high dopamine activity. activity. activity. >> Um, is there anything else that I should >> Um, is there anything else that I should >> Um, is there anything else that I should be thinking about? be thinking about? be thinking about? >> Yeah. So, we could um operationalize
1:41>> Yeah. So, we could um operationalize >> Yeah. So, we could um operationalize this in a very clear way. Get enough this in a very clear way. Get enough this in a very clear way. Get enough sleep for you. For some people it's 6 sleep for you. For some people it's 6 sleep for you. For some people it's 6 hours. For some people it's 8 hours. I'd hours. For some people it's 8 hours. I'd hours. For some people it's 8 hours. I'd like to dispel the myth, even though my like to dispel the myth, even though my like to dispel the myth, even though my friend Matt Walker will probably get friend Matt Walker will probably get friend Matt Walker will probably get upset at me for saying this. Not upset at me for saying this. Not upset at me for saying this. Not everyone needs eight or nine hours of everyone needs eight or nine hours of everyone needs eight or nine hours of sleep. Okay, I got six last night. Okay, sleep. Okay, I got six last night. Okay, sleep. Okay, I got six last night. Okay, I actually went to bed at midnight last I actually went to bed at midnight last I actually went to bed at midnight last night. Oh, excuse me. I got 6 hours and night. Oh, excuse me. I got 6 hours and night. Oh, excuse me. I got 6 hours and 45 minutes last night. I went to bed at 45 minutes last night. I went to bed at 45 minutes last night. I went to bed at midnight, which is kind of late for me. midnight, which is kind of late for me. midnight, which is kind of late for me. Woke up at 6:45, Woke up at 6:45, Woke up at 6:45, but get enough sleep. If you wake up in but get enough sleep. If you wake up in but get enough sleep. If you wake up in the morning and you can't get more sleep the morning and you can't get more sleep the morning and you can't get more sleep for whatever reason, can't fall back for whatever reason, can't fall back for whatever reason, can't fall back asleep or you have to get out of bed, if asleep or you have to get out of bed, if asleep or you have to get out of bed, if you do not feel rested, I recommend you do not feel rested, I recommend you do not feel rested, I recommend doing a 10 or 20 minute non-sleep deep doing a 10 or 20 minute non-sleep deep doing a 10 or 20 minute non-sleep deep rest or yoga nidra protocol. They are rest or yoga nidra protocol. They are rest or yoga nidra protocol. They are available zero cost on YouTube. You available zero cost on YouTube. You available zero cost on YouTube. You could put NSDR my name if you want to could put NSDR my name if you want to could put NSDR my name if you want to listen to me do one. You could put NSDR listen to me do one. You could put NSDR listen to me do one. You could put NSDR Kelly boys does wonderful yoga nidras. Kelly boys does wonderful yoga nidras. Kelly boys does wonderful yoga nidras. She has a very pleasant voice. If you She has a very pleasant voice. If you She has a very pleasant voice. If you prefer a female voice, there's some prefer a female voice, there's some prefer a female voice, there's some wonderful yoga nidras by a woman named wonderful yoga nidras by a woman named wonderful yoga nidras by a woman named Kami Desai. Anyway, these are all Kami Desai. Anyway, these are all Kami Desai. Anyway, these are all zerocost scripts that are available on zerocost scripts that are available on zerocost scripts that are available on YouTube. YouTube. YouTube. >> What is that?
1:42>> What is that? >> What is that? >> So, um, so non-sleep deep breaths. >> So, um, so non-sleep deep breaths. >> So, um, so non-sleep deep breaths. >> You did one today. >> You did one today. >> You did one today. >> I did one today on the way here. Okay. >> I did one today on the way here. Okay. >> I did one today on the way here. Okay. >> Yeah. Here's what we know. It does. >> Yeah. Here's what we know. It does. >> Yeah. Here's what we know. It does. Replenishes baseline levels of dopamine Replenishes baseline levels of dopamine Replenishes baseline levels of dopamine in the basil ganglia. Prepares you for in the basil ganglia. Prepares you for in the basil ganglia. Prepares you for action, both mental and physical action. action, both mental and physical action. action, both mental and physical action. can indeed help offset some of the sleep can indeed help offset some of the sleep can indeed help offset some of the sleep that maybe you didn't get but you that maybe you didn't get but you that maybe you didn't get but you needed. We know that the brain goes into needed. We know that the brain goes into needed. We know that the brain goes into a kind of pseudo sleep in this state. a kind of pseudo sleep in this state. a kind of pseudo sleep in this state. And there's also some evidence that yoga And there's also some evidence that yoga And there's also some evidence that yoga nidra and similar practices can improve nidra and similar practices can improve nidra and similar practices can improve rates of learning. Okay, so that's sort rates of learning. Okay, so that's sort rates of learning. Okay, so that's sort of the the benefits. of the the benefits. of the the benefits. What is it? It involves what most people What is it? It involves what most people What is it? It involves what most people will call meditation, but it's different will call meditation, but it's different will call meditation, but it's different than meditation. You lie down. You could than meditation. You lie down. You could than meditation. You lie down. You could do it seated as well, but you lie down, do it seated as well, but you lie down, do it seated as well, but you lie down, eyes closed, and you do long exhale eyes closed, and you do long exhale eyes closed, and you do long exhale breathing. breathing. breathing. When we exhale, we actually slow our When we exhale, we actually slow our When we exhale, we actually slow our heart rate down. I could talk about how heart rate down. I could talk about how heart rate down. I could talk about how this is it. This is through respiratory this is it. This is through respiratory this is it. This is through respiratory sinus arrhythmia. This is a relationship sinus arrhythmia. This is a relationship sinus arrhythmia. This is a relationship between the vagus nerve and the beating between the vagus nerve and the beating between the vagus nerve and the beating of the heart. But in any case, when we of the heart. But in any case, when we of the heart. But in any case, when we inhale, our heart actually speeds up its
1:43inhale, our heart actually speeds up its inhale, our heart actually speeds up its beats slightly, and when we exhale, it beats slightly, and when we exhale, it beats slightly, and when we exhale, it slows down its beat slightly. So, it slows down its beat slightly. So, it slows down its beat slightly. So, it involves a lot of long exhale breathing. involves a lot of long exhale breathing. involves a lot of long exhale breathing. It involves a body scan where you It involves a body scan where you It involves a body scan where you deliberately relax different aspects of deliberately relax different aspects of deliberately relax different aspects of your body. So your first your feet, then your body. So your first your feet, then your body. So your first your feet, then your legs, then your hands. It's sort of your legs, then your hands. It's sort of your legs, then your hands. It's sort of a body scan of sorts with long exhale a body scan of sorts with long exhale a body scan of sorts with long exhale breathing. And it takes you into a state breathing. And it takes you into a state breathing. And it takes you into a state that's pseudo sleep. You're somewhere that's pseudo sleep. You're somewhere that's pseudo sleep. You're somewhere between sleep and awake. Now the beauty between sleep and awake. Now the beauty between sleep and awake. Now the beauty of NSDR and yoga nidra is that part of of NSDR and yoga nidra is that part of of NSDR and yoga nidra is that part of the instruction at the beginning is to the instruction at the beginning is to the instruction at the beginning is to stay awake. Now if you fall asleep, it's stay awake. Now if you fall asleep, it's stay awake. Now if you fall asleep, it's okay. Just make sure you set an alarm if okay. Just make sure you set an alarm if okay. Just make sure you set an alarm if you have to go to work or do something you have to go to work or do something you have to go to work or do something else. But by staying awake while being else. But by staying awake while being else. But by staying awake while being very relaxed, it seems that the nervous very relaxed, it seems that the nervous very relaxed, it seems that the nervous system can continue to stay in a system can continue to stay in a system can continue to stay in a sleep-like state enough that you sleep-like state enough that you sleep-like state enough that you replenish some of these neurochemicals replenish some of these neurochemicals replenish some of these neurochemicals that prepare you for cognitive and that prepare you for cognitive and that prepare you for cognitive and physical action. Now, there are physical action. Now, there are physical action. Now, there are 10-minute NSDRs, there are 20-minute 10-minute NSDRs, there are 20-minute 10-minute NSDRs, there are 20-minute NSDRs, there are even hour-long yoga NSDRs, there are even hour-long yoga NSDRs, there are even hour-long yoga nidras and things of that sort. So, it nidras and things of that sort. So, it nidras and things of that sort. So, it depends on how much time you have before
1:44depends on how much time you have before depends on how much time you have before you need to get up. So, if you sleep you need to get up. So, if you sleep you need to get up. So, if you sleep well the night before, you wake up after well the night before, you wake up after well the night before, you wake up after 6, eight hours, and you're ready to go, 6, eight hours, and you're ready to go, 6, eight hours, and you're ready to go, boom, [clears throat] go. But if you're boom, [clears throat] go. But if you're boom, [clears throat] go. But if you're not, I highly recommend doing a 10, 20, not, I highly recommend doing a 10, 20, not, I highly recommend doing a 10, 20, or 30 minute NSDR practice. You will or 30 minute NSDR practice. You will or 30 minute NSDR practice. You will find that you will be far more rested. find that you will be far more rested. find that you will be far more rested. You will feel far more mentally and You will feel far more mentally and You will feel far more mentally and physically vigorous when you emerge from physically vigorous when you emerge from physically vigorous when you emerge from that. It's remarkable. And Matt Walker's that. It's remarkable. And Matt Walker's that. It's remarkable. And Matt Walker's laboratory and I are gearing up to do laboratory and I are gearing up to do laboratory and I are gearing up to do some studies on this to figure out some studies on this to figure out some studies on this to figure out exactly what's happening. Is the brain exactly what's happening. Is the brain exactly what's happening. Is the brain really going into sleep or is it really going into sleep or is it really going into sleep or is it something you know entirely different? something you know entirely different? something you know entirely different? We don't quite know yet. In any event, We don't quite know yet. In any event, We don't quite know yet. In any event, it most certainly works and soon we'll it most certainly works and soon we'll it most certainly works and soon we'll know the exact mechanism in the brain. know the exact mechanism in the brain. know the exact mechanism in the brain. But this dopamine re but this re-upping But this dopamine re but this re-upping But this dopamine re but this re-upping of dopamine is very very clear from the of dopamine is very very clear from the of dopamine is very very clear from the existing studies. So what are you doing existing studies. So what are you doing existing studies. So what are you doing there? You're essentially filling the there? You're essentially filling the there? You're essentially filling the reservoir for the day of activities. reservoir for the day of activities. reservoir for the day of activities. Okay. Then I recommend hydration which Okay. Then I recommend hydration which Okay. Then I recommend hydration which has a profound effect on energy levels. has a profound effect on energy levels. has a profound effect on energy levels. So 16 to 32 ounces of water. People So 16 to 32 ounces of water. People So 16 to 32 ounces of water. People debate drink out of plastic or don't
1:45debate drink out of plastic or don't debate drink out of plastic or don't drink out of plastic. Do you have to drink out of plastic. Do you have to drink out of plastic. Do you have to purify your water, etc. You know, purify your water, etc. You know, purify your water, etc. You know, listen, it depends on budget and listen, it depends on budget and listen, it depends on budget and interest and level of paranoia. I drink interest and level of paranoia. I drink interest and level of paranoia. I drink a filtered water. I tend to drink out of a filtered water. I tend to drink out of a filtered water. I tend to drink out of ceramic or glass, but I am somebody who ceramic or glass, but I am somebody who ceramic or glass, but I am somebody who will occasionally drink out of a plastic will occasionally drink out of a plastic will occasionally drink out of a plastic water bottle. I'm I'm not neurotic about water bottle. I'm I'm not neurotic about water bottle. I'm I'm not neurotic about that sort of thing, but look, if you that sort of thing, but look, if you that sort of thing, but look, if you are, fine. And we could all do well to are, fine. And we could all do well to are, fine. And we could all do well to limit the amount of plastic waste in the limit the amount of plastic waste in the limit the amount of plastic waste in the oceans. So there you go. oceans. So there you go. oceans. So there you go. hydrate. hydrate. hydrate. Then some people like myself do very Then some people like myself do very Then some people like myself do very well to get some exercise and sunlight, well to get some exercise and sunlight, well to get some exercise and sunlight, ideally simultaneously, but certainly ideally simultaneously, but certainly ideally simultaneously, but certainly get some sunlight get some sunlight get some sunlight and exercise prior to caffeine. Some and exercise prior to caffeine. Some and exercise prior to caffeine. Some people do, some people don't. Okay. I people do, some people don't. Okay. I people do, some people don't. Okay. I also understand and totally support also understand and totally support also understand and totally support people who just want their coffee or tea people who just want their coffee or tea people who just want their coffee or tea first thing in the morning. There's no first thing in the morning. There's no first thing in the morning. There's no rule that says that you can't do that. rule that says that you can't do that. rule that says that you can't do that. But for me, what I would do is I'd get But for me, what I would do is I'd get But for me, what I would do is I'd get up, use the restroom if you need to up, use the restroom if you need to up, use the restroom if you need to hydrate, and then get some bright light hydrate, and then get some bright light hydrate, and then get some bright light in your eyes, ideally from sunlight in your eyes, ideally from sunlight in your eyes, ideally from sunlight first thing in the morning. Why? Well,
1:46first thing in the morning. Why? Well, first thing in the morning. Why? Well, there's a whole story about circadian there's a whole story about circadian there's a whole story about circadian biology here that I could tell you, but biology here that I could tell you, but biology here that I could tell you, but I've done that many times before. I've done that many times before. I've done that many times before. Suffice to say that getting bright Suffice to say that getting bright Suffice to say that getting bright light, ideally from sunlight in your light, ideally from sunlight in your light, ideally from sunlight in your eyes, even through cloud cover, so if eyes, even through cloud cover, so if eyes, even through cloud cover, so if you're in the UK, even through cloud you're in the UK, even through cloud you're in the UK, even through cloud cover, cover, cover, >> increases the amount of cortisol release >> increases the amount of cortisol release >> increases the amount of cortisol release in your brain and body marketkedly. That in your brain and body marketkedly. That in your brain and body marketkedly. That is a good healthy increase in cortisol is a good healthy increase in cortisol is a good healthy increase in cortisol that is associated with the transition that is associated with the transition that is associated with the transition to waking up. So, we know that bright to waking up. So, we know that bright to waking up. So, we know that bright light in the morning, especially from light in the morning, especially from light in the morning, especially from sunlight, increases daytime mood, focus, sunlight, increases daytime mood, focus, sunlight, increases daytime mood, focus, and alertness, and it will improve your and alertness, and it will improve your and alertness, and it will improve your sleep later that night. Can I ask then sleep later that night. Can I ask then sleep later that night. Can I ask then because I woke up in a hotel this because I woke up in a hotel this because I woke up in a hotel this morning and because of you I now think morning and because of you I now think morning and because of you I now think about sunlight a lot. So I woke up and I about sunlight a lot. So I woke up and I about sunlight a lot. So I woke up and I have a balcony in the hotel but I can't have a balcony in the hotel but I can't have a balcony in the hotel but I can't see the sun cuz the sun is on the other see the sun cuz the sun is on the other see the sun cuz the sun is on the other side of the hotel. side of the hotel. side of the hotel. >> Right? So you're west facing in the >> Right? So you're west facing in the >> Right? So you're west facing in the morning and it's coming up in the east. morning and it's coming up in the east. morning and it's coming up in the east. So here's the ideal circumstance. You go So here's the ideal circumstance. You go So here's the ideal circumstance. You go outside, you take your sunglasses off. outside, you take your sunglasses off. outside, you take your sunglasses off. Eyeglasses and contacts are fine even if Eyeglasses and contacts are fine even if Eyeglasses and contacts are fine even if they have UV protection. You face east. they have UV protection. You face east. they have UV protection. You face east. It's a clear morning. The sun is there. It's a clear morning. The sun is there. It's a clear morning. The sun is there. Maybe it's even rising across the
1:47Maybe it's even rising across the Maybe it's even rising across the horizon. and you watch it for 5 10 horizon. and you watch it for 5 10 horizon. and you watch it for 5 10 minutes and then you go back inside and minutes and then you go back inside and minutes and then you go back inside and carry about your day. Here's the carry about your day. Here's the carry about your day. Here's the realistic situation. You wake up, you're realistic situation. You wake up, you're realistic situation. You wake up, you're in a hotel or an apartment, you've got in a hotel or an apartment, you've got in a hotel or an apartment, you've got things to do, your phone is on, etc. things to do, your phone is on, etc. things to do, your phone is on, etc. What do you do? Get out onto the What do you do? Get out onto the What do you do? Get out onto the balcony. Get some natural light. The balcony. Get some natural light. The balcony. Get some natural light. The ambient light, as we say, is still far ambient light, as we say, is still far ambient light, as we say, is still far brighter outside, even on an overcast brighter outside, even on an overcast brighter outside, even on an overcast day, than it would be indoors with the day, than it would be indoors with the day, than it would be indoors with the brightest possible overhead lights. Now, brightest possible overhead lights. Now, brightest possible overhead lights. Now, there are seasonal effective disorder there are seasonal effective disorder there are seasonal effective disorder lights, so-called satellites, that are lights, so-called satellites, that are lights, so-called satellites, that are designed to generate 10,000 lux or more designed to generate 10,000 lux or more designed to generate 10,000 lux or more and simulate sunlight. There is really and simulate sunlight. There is really and simulate sunlight. There is really no simulation for sunlight, but those no simulation for sunlight, but those no simulation for sunlight, but those special lights are a special special lights are a special special lights are a special circumstance. Here's what I know for circumstance. Here's what I know for circumstance. Here's what I know for sure, and everyone will agree that it's sure, and everyone will agree that it's sure, and everyone will agree that it's much brighter outside, even on an much brighter outside, even on an much brighter outside, even on an overcast morning, than it is at night. overcast morning, than it is at night. overcast morning, than it is at night. Okay? You can see even on an overcast Okay? You can see even on an overcast Okay? You can see even on an overcast day, typically without a flashlight, day, typically without a flashlight, day, typically without a flashlight, that tells you there's a lot of photons, that tells you there's a lot of photons, that tells you there's a lot of photons, a lot of light energy outside. So, the a lot of light energy outside. So, the a lot of light energy outside. So, the best thing to do is just get outside, best thing to do is just get outside, best thing to do is just get outside, especially on overcast days, and get especially on overcast days, and get especially on overcast days, and get some ambient light in your eyes. When I
1:48some ambient light in your eyes. When I some ambient light in your eyes. When I say view morning sunlight, as soon as say view morning sunlight, as soon as say view morning sunlight, as soon as possible after waking up, two questions possible after waking up, two questions possible after waking up, two questions always emerge. First is, what happens if always emerge. First is, what happens if always emerge. First is, what happens if I wake up before the sun comes out? I wake up before the sun comes out? I wake up before the sun comes out? Well, listen, unless you have powers Well, listen, unless you have powers Well, listen, unless you have powers that I'm not aware of, you're going to that I'm not aware of, you're going to that I'm not aware of, you're going to have to wait for the sun to come out, have to wait for the sun to come out, have to wait for the sun to come out, okay? I just don't have any way to make okay? I just don't have any way to make okay? I just don't have any way to make it rise any faster for you. So, and if it rise any faster for you. So, and if it rise any faster for you. So, and if you do, please like email me and let me you do, please like email me and let me you do, please like email me and let me know how that's done. But the point here know how that's done. But the point here know how that's done. But the point here is that on an overcast day or even if is that on an overcast day or even if is that on an overcast day or even if you're not looking in the direction that you're not looking in the direction that you're not looking in the direction that the sun happens to be rising, you're the sun happens to be rising, you're the sun happens to be rising, you're still getting sunlight. The photon still getting sunlight. The photon still getting sunlight. The photon energy is what arrives at your eyes energy is what arrives at your eyes energy is what arrives at your eyes eventually triggers activation of cells eventually triggers activation of cells eventually triggers activation of cells in the neural retina. This pyrust-like in the neural retina. This pyrust-like in the neural retina. This pyrust-like tissue that lines the back of your eyes tissue that lines the back of your eyes tissue that lines the back of your eyes and signals to your brain it's time to and signals to your brain it's time to and signals to your brain it's time to wake up. So when I say view morning wake up. So when I say view morning wake up. So when I say view morning sunlight, a lot of people think they sunlight, a lot of people think they sunlight, a lot of people think they need to see the sunrise across the need to see the sunrise across the need to see the sunrise across the sunset. I don't mean you need to see the sunset. I don't mean you need to see the sunset. I don't mean you need to see the sun as an object. You need to see the sun as an object. You need to see the sun as an object. You need to see the light emitting from the sun. And even on light emitting from the sun. And even on light emitting from the sun. And even on overcast days, that's there. Now on overcast days, that's there. Now on overcast days, that's there. Now on densely overcast day in the thick of densely overcast day in the thick of densely overcast day in the thick of winter in the UK or Scandinavia, it can winter in the UK or Scandinavia, it can winter in the UK or Scandinavia, it can be quite dark even in the morning and
1:49be quite dark even in the morning and be quite dark even in the morning and throughout the day. In that case, you'll throughout the day. In that case, you'll throughout the day. In that case, you'll really want to strive to get some bright really want to strive to get some bright really want to strive to get some bright artificial light exposure in the morning artificial light exposure in the morning artificial light exposure in the morning and throughout the day as well. But this and throughout the day as well. But this and throughout the day as well. But this business of getting sunlight, we can put business of getting sunlight, we can put business of getting sunlight, we can put light in capital letters. Not light in capital letters. Not light in capital letters. Not necessarily seeing the sun as an object, necessarily seeing the sun as an object, necessarily seeing the sun as an object, but getting sunlight in your eyes early but getting sunlight in your eyes early but getting sunlight in your eyes early in the day increases that cortisol peak in the day increases that cortisol peak in the day increases that cortisol peak and its duration. This is great for your and its duration. This is great for your and its duration. This is great for your immune system. It great for alertness. immune system. It great for alertness. immune system. It great for alertness. And when we hear cortisol, normally And when we hear cortisol, normally And when we hear cortisol, normally people think bad. Oh, cortisol is bad. people think bad. Oh, cortisol is bad. people think bad. Oh, cortisol is bad. No, cortisol is terrific. You need No, cortisol is terrific. You need No, cortisol is terrific. You need cortisol. Trust me, people who have cortisol. Trust me, people who have cortisol. Trust me, people who have deficits in cortisol production or deficits in cortisol production or deficits in cortisol production or regulation have all sorts of problems. regulation have all sorts of problems. regulation have all sorts of problems. We're talking about getting a healthy We're talking about getting a healthy We're talking about getting a healthy big increase in cortisol early in the big increase in cortisol early in the big increase in cortisol early in the day that carries your energy until the day that carries your energy until the day that carries your energy until the evening and then the cortisol drops off. evening and then the cortisol drops off. evening and then the cortisol drops off. >> What about shift workers? >> What about shift workers? >> What about shift workers? >> Shift workers, God bless them. They're >> Shift workers, God bless them. They're >> Shift workers, God bless them. They're essential for so much of what we do and essential for so much of what we do and essential for so much of what we do and consume and need. So, we have to be consume and need. So, we have to be consume and need. So, we have to be grateful to them. They unfortunately are grateful to them. They unfortunately are grateful to them. They unfortunately are in a very compromised health state. in a very compromised health state. in a very compromised health state. Often they have digestive issues, mood Often they have digestive issues, mood Often they have digestive issues, mood issues. It's a real problem and it's
1:50issues. It's a real problem and it's issues. It's a real problem and it's very dependent on the particular shift. very dependent on the particular shift. very dependent on the particular shift. The worst case scenario for them is the The worst case scenario for them is the The worst case scenario for them is the swing shift where they're working days swing shift where they're working days swing shift where they're working days then they're working nights on the order then they're working nights on the order then they're working nights on the order of you know three days on three days off of you know three days on three days off of you know three days on three days off etc. It's terrible. We know that health etc. It's terrible. We know that health etc. It's terrible. We know that health outcomes for shift workers are so much outcomes for shift workers are so much outcomes for shift workers are so much worse. We know that a few things can worse. We know that a few things can worse. We know that a few things can help. For instance, regular meal and help. For instance, regular meal and help. For instance, regular meal and exercise times. exercise times. exercise times. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> We know that red light and here I'm not >> We know that red light and here I'm not >> We know that red light and here I'm not talking about red light therapy. I'm talking about red light therapy. I'm talking about red light therapy. I'm talking about working under lights that talking about working under lights that talking about working under lights that are a bit more um redshifted, long are a bit more um redshifted, long are a bit more um redshifted, long wavelength shifted as we say, as opposed wavelength shifted as we say, as opposed wavelength shifted as we say, as opposed to bright fluorescent lights can help to bright fluorescent lights can help to bright fluorescent lights can help reduce some of the cortisol release reduce some of the cortisol release reduce some of the cortisol release associated with shift work that occurs associated with shift work that occurs associated with shift work that occurs at the wrong times. This is a pretty at the wrong times. This is a pretty at the wrong times. This is a pretty nuanced topic. Um that again depends on nuanced topic. Um that again depends on nuanced topic. Um that again depends on the shift. Um ideally one doesn't work the shift. Um ideally one doesn't work the shift. Um ideally one doesn't work shifts their entire life. If you shifts their entire life. If you shifts their entire life. If you absolutely have to do shift work, go to absolutely have to do shift work, go to absolutely have to do shift work, go to your boss, tell them I said this. Try your boss, tell them I said this. Try your boss, tell them I said this. Try and stay on the same schedule. Even if and stay on the same schedule. Even if and stay on the same schedule. Even if it's a nocturnal schedule, which is the it's a nocturnal schedule, which is the it's a nocturnal schedule, which is the most unhealthy schedule, try and stay on most unhealthy schedule, try and stay on most unhealthy schedule, try and stay on the same schedule for at least two weeks
1:51the same schedule for at least two weeks the same schedule for at least two weeks before shifting back to another before shifting back to another before shifting back to another schedule. If you're somebody who's schedule. If you're somebody who's schedule. If you're somebody who's required to stay up until 3:00 in the required to stay up until 3:00 in the required to stay up until 3:00 in the morning and then sleep until 11:00 a.m., morning and then sleep until 11:00 a.m., morning and then sleep until 11:00 a.m., does that mean that viewing morning does that mean that viewing morning does that mean that viewing morning sunlight your morning at 11:30 a.m. is sunlight your morning at 11:30 a.m. is sunlight your morning at 11:30 a.m. is not useful? No, it's still useful. Try not useful? No, it's still useful. Try not useful? No, it's still useful. Try and keep things as regular as possible. and keep things as regular as possible. and keep things as regular as possible. That's my advice. But for people who are That's my advice. But for people who are That's my advice. But for people who are on a typical what we call dal, daytime on a typical what we call dal, daytime on a typical what we call dal, daytime active as opposed to nocturnal, active as opposed to nocturnal, active as opposed to nocturnal, nighttime active schedule, this business nighttime active schedule, this business nighttime active schedule, this business of hydration, sunlight, movement, even of hydration, sunlight, movement, even of hydration, sunlight, movement, even if it's skipping rope for five minutes if it's skipping rope for five minutes if it's skipping rope for five minutes or jogging in place or just swinging or jogging in place or just swinging or jogging in place or just swinging one's arms or getting a little walk in one's arms or getting a little walk in one's arms or getting a little walk in in the morning, immensely beneficial. in the morning, immensely beneficial. in the morning, immensely beneficial. If you can do a full workout first thing If you can do a full workout first thing If you can do a full workout first thing in the morning, great. If you don't have in the morning, great. If you don't have in the morning, great. If you don't have time for that until later in the day, time for that until later in the day, time for that until later in the day, I'll be the first to say exercise I'll be the first to say exercise I'll be the first to say exercise when you can do it consistently. So if when you can do it consistently. So if when you can do it consistently. So if you know, don't think that if you don't you know, don't think that if you don't you know, don't think that if you don't work out in the morning that you work out in the morning that you work out in the morning that you shouldn't do it later. We know everybody shouldn't do it later. We know everybody shouldn't do it later. We know everybody for sake of longevity and immediate I for sake of longevity and immediate I for sake of longevity and immediate I guess what we call health span and guess what we call health span and guess what we call health span and lifespan and well-being for that matter lifespan and well-being for that matter lifespan and well-being for that matter should be doing at least two or three
1:52should be doing at least two or three should be doing at least two or three days per week of resistance training of days per week of resistance training of days per week of resistance training of some sort. is true for men, women and some sort. is true for men, women and some sort. is true for men, women and cardiovascular training in order to cardiovascular training in order to cardiovascular training in order to ensure healthy neuromuscular ensure healthy neuromuscular ensure healthy neuromuscular connections, brain health, heart health. connections, brain health, heart health. connections, brain health, heart health. This is just very very clear. If you do This is just very very clear. If you do This is just very very clear. If you do that early in the day, fine. If you do that early in the day, fine. If you do that early in the day, fine. If you do that on your lunch hour, fine. If you do that on your lunch hour, fine. If you do that on your lunch hour, fine. If you do that in the evening, fine. Just make that in the evening, fine. Just make that in the evening, fine. Just make sure whatever you do in order to get sure whatever you do in order to get sure whatever you do in order to get that workout, whatever caffeine or that workout, whatever caffeine or that workout, whatever caffeine or pre-workout that you're taking, doesn't pre-workout that you're taking, doesn't pre-workout that you're taking, doesn't inhibit your ability to get a great inhibit your ability to get a great inhibit your ability to get a great night's sleep because sleep is the night's sleep because sleep is the night's sleep because sleep is the ultimate restorative. It's what really ultimate restorative. It's what really ultimate restorative. It's what really is the foundation of mental health and is the foundation of mental health and is the foundation of mental health and physical health. And I can say if you physical health. And I can say if you physical health. And I can say if you want to be because this question started want to be because this question started want to be because this question started off, what can you do to be, you know, off, what can you do to be, you know, off, what can you do to be, you know, have the best dopamine system, the best have the best dopamine system, the best have the best dopamine system, the best energy, the best creativity? As you move energy, the best creativity? As you move energy, the best creativity? As you move through your day, notice your energy through your day, notice your energy through your day, notice your energy levels. Eat well certainly I believe levels. Eat well certainly I believe levels. Eat well certainly I believe that people should eat mostly that people should eat mostly that people should eat mostly nonprocessed or minimally processed nonprocessed or minimally processed nonprocessed or minimally processed foods. That's very clear regardless of foods. That's very clear regardless of foods. That's very clear regardless of whether or not you're vegan, vegetarian, whether or not you're vegan, vegetarian, whether or not you're vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, or carnivore. and eat amounts
1:53omnivore, or carnivore. and eat amounts omnivore, or carnivore. and eat amounts and foods that allow you to have and foods that allow you to have and foods that allow you to have sufficient mental energy. So for me that sufficient mental energy. So for me that sufficient mental energy. So for me that largely means high quality protein and largely means high quality protein and largely means high quality protein and fibrous vegetables and fruit throughout fibrous vegetables and fruit throughout fibrous vegetables and fruit throughout the day. the day. the day. >> What's your advice? >> What's your advice? >> What's your advice? >> Any carbohydrate with melted Parmesan >> Any carbohydrate with melted Parmesan >> Any carbohydrate with melted Parmesan cheese. thin crust pizza, pasta with cheese. thin crust pizza, pasta with cheese. thin crust pizza, pasta with with parmesan cheese, especially if with parmesan cheese, especially if with parmesan cheese, especially if there's like a Diet Coke nearby there's like a Diet Coke nearby there's like a Diet Coke nearby >> or oh goodness, I can just consume >> or oh goodness, I can just consume >> or oh goodness, I can just consume consume consume it is very hard for me consume consume it is very hard for me consume consume it is very hard for me to hit my threshold with those things. to hit my threshold with those things. to hit my threshold with those things. >> This is a slight tangent, but I will >> This is a slight tangent, but I will >> This is a slight tangent, but I will return to this dopamine conversation. return to this dopamine conversation. return to this dopamine conversation. It's it's it's related, but when you It's it's it's related, but when you It's it's it's related, but when you have that thin crust pizza or that have that thin crust pizza or that have that thin crust pizza or that whatever food that spikes your dopamine, whatever food that spikes your dopamine, whatever food that spikes your dopamine, for me, I've got a bit of a sweet tooth, for me, I've got a bit of a sweet tooth, for me, I've got a bit of a sweet tooth, so that's my advice. Carrot cake or so that's my advice. Carrot cake or so that's my advice. Carrot cake or something like that. something like that. something like that. >> Oh yeah, carrot cake's good. Especially >> Oh yeah, carrot cake's good. Especially >> Oh yeah, carrot cake's good. Especially if the ratio of the ratio if the ratio of the ratio if the ratio of the ratio >> of the frosting to the cake part, right? >> of the frosting to the cake part, right? >> of the frosting to the cake part, right? If it's too much frosting or too much If it's too much frosting or too much If it's too much frosting or too much cake. Yeah, exactly. Um, no go. But if cake. Yeah, exactly. Um, no go. But if cake. Yeah, exactly. Um, no go. But if it's just the right ratio, it's just the right ratio, it's just the right ratio, >> so if I I had that carrot cake >> so if I I had that carrot cake >> so if I I had that carrot cake yesterday, which no one knows about. I
1:54yesterday, which no one knows about. I yesterday, which no one knows about. I kept it to myself. But does that mean kept it to myself. But does that mean kept it to myself. But does that mean that I'm more likely with the that I'm more likely with the that I'm more likely with the understanding of dopamine to want carrot understanding of dopamine to want carrot understanding of dopamine to want carrot cake again tomorrow, the day after, cake again tomorrow, the day after, cake again tomorrow, the day after, because I've got into a bit of a carrot because I've got into a bit of a carrot because I've got into a bit of a carrot cake cycle? Because I think everybody cake cycle? Because I think everybody cake cycle? Because I think everybody when they think about their relationship when they think about their relationship when they think about their relationship with sugar understands that if they just with sugar understands that if they just with sugar understands that if they just laid off sugar for like three or four laid off sugar for like three or four laid off sugar for like three or four weeks, the cravings seem to die down. weeks, the cravings seem to die down. weeks, the cravings seem to die down. >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. I >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. I >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. I don't think we have the exact answer. don't think we have the exact answer. don't think we have the exact answer. Some would argue that we should have Some would argue that we should have Some would argue that we should have more of a kind of balanced relationship more of a kind of balanced relationship more of a kind of balanced relationship with food whereby if we really crave with food whereby if we really crave with food whereby if we really crave something that we should allow ourselves something that we should allow ourselves something that we should allow ourselves it provided it's not some addictive it provided it's not some addictive it provided it's not some addictive substance or something. You don't substance or something. You don't substance or something. You don't addicts relapsing. Um here we're talking addicts relapsing. Um here we're talking addicts relapsing. Um here we're talking about food. We're not talking about about food. We're not talking about about food. We're not talking about drugs of abuse etc. Um, drugs of abuse etc. Um, drugs of abuse etc. Um, >> but is food not addictive in the same >> but is food not addictive in the same >> but is food not addictive in the same way? way? way? >> Well, food can be very compulsive. I >> Well, food can be very compulsive. I >> Well, food can be very compulsive. I think some people are addicted to food. think some people are addicted to food. think some people are addicted to food. Um, I, you know, I define addiction as a Um, I, you know, I define addiction as a Um, I, you know, I define addiction as a progressive narrowing of the things that progressive narrowing of the things that progressive narrowing of the things that bring you pleasure. We could probably bring you pleasure. We could probably bring you pleasure. We could probably attach to that, you know, the classic attach to that, you know, the classic attach to that, you know, the classic definition of addiction is where
1:55definition of addiction is where definition of addiction is where continued consumption or engagement in a continued consumption or engagement in a continued consumption or engagement in a given activity is actually maladaptive given activity is actually maladaptive given activity is actually maladaptive for your life. Right? I mean, if you for your life. Right? I mean, if you for your life. Right? I mean, if you have four pieces of carrot cake this have four pieces of carrot cake this have four pieces of carrot cake this week, I doubt given your the shape that week, I doubt given your the shape that week, I doubt given your the shape that you're in, it's going to shorten your you're in, it's going to shorten your you're in, it's going to shorten your life. You might not feel great, but it's life. You might not feel great, but it's life. You might not feel great, but it's not going to shorten your life. You're not going to shorten your life. You're not going to shorten your life. You're certainly not going to like lose your certainly not going to like lose your certainly not going to like lose your income um like somebody who's a gambling income um like somebody who's a gambling income um like somebody who's a gambling addict would. Um this kind of thing. addict would. Um this kind of thing. addict would. Um this kind of thing. You're not going to throw your life away You're not going to throw your life away You're not going to throw your life away or go rob somebody in order to get that or go rob somebody in order to get that or go rob somebody in order to get that carrot cake. Although, carrot cake. Although, carrot cake. Although, >> but is it doing that that and I'm >> but is it doing that that and I'm >> but is it doing that that and I'm pointing now at the dopamine wave thing? pointing now at the dopamine wave thing? pointing now at the dopamine wave thing? Am I having a dopamine crash? Am I having a dopamine crash? Am I having a dopamine crash? >> You are. And Anna describes this best. >> You are. And Anna describes this best. >> You are. And Anna describes this best. Um, and you can do this experiment. It's Um, and you can do this experiment. It's Um, and you can do this experiment. It's kind of a fun experiment for you kind of a fun experiment for you kind of a fun experiment for you chocolate lovers. Abstain from chocolate chocolate lovers. Abstain from chocolate chocolate lovers. Abstain from chocolate for say a week and then pick your for say a week and then pick your for say a week and then pick your favorite chocolate and take a little favorite chocolate and take a little favorite chocolate and take a little piece of that chocolate and put it in piece of that chocolate and put it in piece of that chocolate and put it in your mouth and taste it. And of course your mouth and taste it. And of course your mouth and taste it. And of course it will taste delicious. It'll taste it will taste delicious. It'll taste it will taste delicious. It'll taste wonderful. But if you notice very wonderful. But if you notice very wonderful. But if you notice very quickly your brain shifts to a sense of
1:56quickly your brain shifts to a sense of quickly your brain shifts to a sense of wanting more. Not so much savoring the wanting more. Not so much savoring the wanting more. Not so much savoring the chocolate that you're eating, but chocolate that you're eating, but chocolate that you're eating, but wanting more. And you're thinking about, wanting more. And you're thinking about, wanting more. And you're thinking about, well, how much am I gonna take? I'm well, how much am I gonna take? I'm well, how much am I gonna take? I'm gonna take this square. Oh, that other gonna take this square. Oh, that other gonna take this square. Oh, that other square next to it broke off a little square next to it broke off a little square next to it broke off a little bit. Guess I got to eat that one, too. bit. Guess I got to eat that one, too. bit. Guess I got to eat that one, too. So, that's the dopamine system in So, that's the dopamine system in So, that's the dopamine system in action. And then what happens is you eat action. And then what happens is you eat action. And then what happens is you eat half the chocolate thing and you go, half the chocolate thing and you go, half the chocolate thing and you go, "Oh, I don't feel that good about it." "Oh, I don't feel that good about it." "Oh, I don't feel that good about it." But I kind of want more anyway. Why? But I kind of want more anyway. Why? But I kind of want more anyway. Why? Well, you're in that dopamine trough. Well, you're in that dopamine trough. Well, you're in that dopamine trough. The same amount of something is giving The same amount of something is giving The same amount of something is giving you diminishing returns. What's the way you diminishing returns. What's the way you diminishing returns. What's the way to make that chocolate take taste to make that chocolate take taste to make that chocolate take taste absolutely fantastic again? Abstain. Now absolutely fantastic again? Abstain. Now absolutely fantastic again? Abstain. Now there's also an interesting phenomenon there's also an interesting phenomenon there's also an interesting phenomenon and this is why I said I can't be and this is why I said I can't be and this is why I said I can't be exactly sure how to answer your question exactly sure how to answer your question exactly sure how to answer your question accurately that is I have several accurately that is I have several accurately that is I have several friends just by way of example who friends just by way of example who friends just by way of example who reached their 40s quite overweight 50s reached their 40s quite overweight 50s reached their 40s quite overweight 50s quite overweight 30 to 60 pounds quite overweight 30 to 60 pounds quite overweight 30 to 60 pounds overweight and they'd come to me and overweight and they'd come to me and overweight and they'd come to me and they'd say I want to lose weight every they'd say I want to lose weight every they'd say I want to lose weight every single one of them has been highly single one of them has been highly single one of them has been highly successful in rapidly losing that weight successful in rapidly losing that weight successful in rapidly losing that weight and keeping it off the following way and and keeping it off the following way and and keeping it off the following way and I'm not a nutritionist I say you can eat
1:57I'm not a nutritionist I say you can eat I'm not a nutritionist I say you can eat meat meat meat fish, eggs, chicken, fruit, and fish, eggs, chicken, fruit, and fish, eggs, chicken, fruit, and vegetables, and that's it. And drink vegetables, and that's it. And drink vegetables, and that's it. And drink water and caffeine, and don't consume water and caffeine, and don't consume water and caffeine, and don't consume calories and beverages. And every single calories and beverages. And every single calories and beverages. And every single one of them lost 30, 60 pounds and has one of them lost 30, 60 pounds and has one of them lost 30, 60 pounds and has kept it off. Now, Lane Norton and I, who kept it off. Now, Lane Norton and I, who kept it off. Now, Lane Norton and I, who are friends and colleagues in the health are friends and colleagues in the health are friends and colleagues in the health space, he'll say, "Well, they created a space, he'll say, "Well, they created a space, he'll say, "Well, they created a caloric deficit and so they lost caloric deficit and so they lost caloric deficit and so they lost weight." I'd say, "Absolutely." I would weight." I'd say, "Absolutely." I would weight." I'd say, "Absolutely." I would also say, and I think Lane would also say, and I think Lane would also say, and I think Lane would probably agree, although there's no probably agree, although there's no probably agree, although there's no randomized control trial to prove this, randomized control trial to prove this, randomized control trial to prove this, that in eating that way, mostly whole, that in eating that way, mostly whole, that in eating that way, mostly whole, unprocessed, or minimally processed unprocessed, or minimally processed unprocessed, or minimally processed foods, foods, foods, they did several things as well. One is they did several things as well. One is they did several things as well. One is you start to learn the relationship you start to learn the relationship you start to learn the relationship between how something tastes, its between how something tastes, its between how something tastes, its caloric value, its micronutrient, and caloric value, its micronutrient, and caloric value, its micronutrient, and macronutrient value. What do I mean? macronutrient value. What do I mean? macronutrient value. What do I mean? When you eat a steak, like let's say a When you eat a steak, like let's say a When you eat a steak, like let's say a 12 oz ribeye, if that's in your 12 oz ribeye, if that's in your 12 oz ribeye, if that's in your nutrition plan, meaning you allow nutrition plan, meaning you allow nutrition plan, meaning you allow yourself red meat. Let's say you eat yourself red meat. Let's say you eat yourself red meat. Let's say you eat that, you taste it. It's very savory. that, you taste it. It's very savory. that, you taste it. It's very savory. Hopefully, it tastes really good. If
1:58Hopefully, it tastes really good. If Hopefully, it tastes really good. If it's cooked properly, it's a great cut. it's cooked properly, it's a great cut. it's cooked properly, it's a great cut. And your brain learns the relationship And your brain learns the relationship And your brain learns the relationship between steak and calories and nutrients between steak and calories and nutrients between steak and calories and nutrients and amino acids. There's this whole and amino acids. There's this whole and amino acids. There's this whole amino acid foraging hypothesis of amino acid foraging hypothesis of amino acid foraging hypothesis of nutrition. Then you eat fruit, you taste nutrition. Then you eat fruit, you taste nutrition. Then you eat fruit, you taste the fruit, you actually taste it. Now, the fruit, you actually taste it. Now, the fruit, you actually taste it. Now, this is far and away different than if this is far and away different than if this is far and away different than if you're consuming hogi sandwiches and you're consuming hogi sandwiches and you're consuming hogi sandwiches and hamburgers and cheeseburgers. There's hamburgers and cheeseburgers. There's hamburgers and cheeseburgers. There's something about removing the bread. something about removing the bread. something about removing the bread. There's something about removing the There's something about removing the There's something about removing the pasta. There's something about removing pasta. There's something about removing pasta. There's something about removing those foods that I believe has nothing those foods that I believe has nothing those foods that I believe has nothing to do with those foods being bad. In to do with those foods being bad. In to do with those foods being bad. In fact, I love bread and pasta, high fact, I love bread and pasta, high fact, I love bread and pasta, high quality bread and pasta, and I do quality bread and pasta, and I do quality bread and pasta, and I do consume those, but I'm not trying to consume those, but I'm not trying to consume those, but I'm not trying to lose weight nor gain weight. When people lose weight nor gain weight. When people lose weight nor gain weight. When people eat in that way, meat, fish, eggs, eat in that way, meat, fish, eggs, eat in that way, meat, fish, eggs, chicken, fruits, and vegetables, and chicken, fruits, and vegetables, and chicken, fruits, and vegetables, and nothing else for a couple of months, nothing else for a couple of months, nothing else for a couple of months, what every single one of them says is, what every single one of them says is, what every single one of them says is, "Well, then we had this party and you "Well, then we had this party and you "Well, then we had this party and you know, the kids were having birthday know, the kids were having birthday know, the kids were having birthday cake, so I decided to allow myself a cake, so I decided to allow myself a cake, so I decided to allow myself a slice of cake." They ate it and it slice of cake." They ate it and it slice of cake." They ate it and it tasted disgusting to them or they in tasted disgusting to them or they in tasted disgusting to them or they in some cases threw up or they just felt some cases threw up or they just felt some cases threw up or they just felt like it was gross. whatever positive like it was gross. whatever positive like it was gross. whatever positive association they had with it before no
1:59association they had with it before no association they had with it before no longer exists and then they get right longer exists and then they get right longer exists and then they get right back on their let's call it diet and back on their let's call it diet and back on their let's call it diet and they continue along their way and they continue along their way and they continue along their way and they're very relieved to learn that they they're very relieved to learn that they they're very relieved to learn that they actually enjoy healthy foods I think actually enjoy healthy foods I think actually enjoy healthy foods I think that we can rewire in fact we know that that we can rewire in fact we know that that we can rewire in fact we know that you can rewire your association between you can rewire your association between you can rewire your association between nutrative value taste of food calories nutrative value taste of food calories nutrative value taste of food calories and micronutrients and so when I hear and micronutrients and so when I hear and micronutrients and so when I hear about these highly restrictive about these highly restrictive about these highly restrictive elimination diets where people do only elimination diets where people do only elimination diets where people do only meat which frankly does not seem healthy meat which frankly does not seem healthy meat which frankly does not seem healthy to me I think some fiber from other to me I think some fiber from other to me I think some fiber from other sources is good. Although I'm sure Paul sources is good. Although I'm sure Paul sources is good. Although I'm sure Paul Saladino will come after me probably Saladino will come after me probably Saladino will come after me probably with a drumstick or something with a drumstick or something with a drumstick or something >> or Jordan. Whatever Jordan's doing seems >> or Jordan. Whatever Jordan's doing seems >> or Jordan. Whatever Jordan's doing seems to be working for Jordan. So I'm not to be working for Jordan. So I'm not to be working for Jordan. So I'm not going to argue. People should do as they going to argue. People should do as they going to argue. People should do as they will. But you know um I'm an omnivore will. But you know um I'm an omnivore will. But you know um I'm an omnivore and enjoy that. But I think when people and enjoy that. But I think when people and enjoy that. But I think when people do elimination type diets, the more do elimination type diets, the more do elimination type diets, the more important thing is that they're learning important thing is that they're learning important thing is that they're learning this association between taste and this association between taste and this association between taste and calories that seems to really work for calories that seems to really work for calories that seems to really work for them and the pleasure of eating certain them and the pleasure of eating certain them and the pleasure of eating certain foods and really dropping into the the foods and really dropping into the the foods and really dropping into the the quality and the taste of that food. When
2:00quality and the taste of that food. When quality and the taste of that food. When we crave a food and it's kind of an we crave a food and it's kind of an we crave a food and it's kind of an indulgence food like chocolate or carrot indulgence food like chocolate or carrot indulgence food like chocolate or carrot cake or something, it's more along this cake or something, it's more along this cake or something, it's more along this dopamine uh transition from peak to dopamine uh transition from peak to dopamine uh transition from peak to trough. trough. trough. Now, when I I love steak. My dad's Now, when I I love steak. My dad's Now, when I I love steak. My dad's Argentine. I'm half Argentine, so I love Argentine. I'm half Argentine, so I love Argentine. I'm half Argentine, so I love a great beef churizo or like a you know, a great beef churizo or like a you know, a great beef churizo or like a you know, like I love red meat, but I don't eat like I love red meat, but I don't eat like I love red meat, but I don't eat two ribe eyes. I eat one and I'm good. two ribe eyes. I eat one and I'm good. two ribe eyes. I eat one and I'm good. And so, I think that there's something And so, I think that there's something And so, I think that there's something very sad about high nutrative quality very sad about high nutrative quality very sad about high nutrative quality food that includes fruits and vegetables food that includes fruits and vegetables food that includes fruits and vegetables and the vegans have their choices and and the vegans have their choices and and the vegans have their choices and the vegetarians have their choices. And the vegetarians have their choices. And the vegetarians have their choices. And so so much of what we think about when so so much of what we think about when so so much of what we think about when we think about dopamine and food is yes, we think about dopamine and food is yes, we think about dopamine and food is yes, highly processed foods, candy, packaged highly processed foods, candy, packaged highly processed foods, candy, packaged goods, cookies, chips, they drive this goods, cookies, chips, they drive this goods, cookies, chips, they drive this craving for more, but people don't craving for more, but people don't craving for more, but people don't actually enjoy them that much. They just actually enjoy them that much. They just actually enjoy them that much. They just require them or at least they think they require them or at least they think they require them or at least they think they require them. So I encourage anyone who require them. So I encourage anyone who require them. So I encourage anyone who feels addicted to those foods to take a, feels addicted to those foods to take a, feels addicted to those foods to take a, you know, healthy approach. You know, you know, healthy approach. You know, you know, healthy approach. You know, consume enough calories. Don't go on a consume enough calories. Don't go on a consume enough calories. Don't go on a crash diet, but try eating really high
2:01crash diet, but try eating really high crash diet, but try eating really high quality, unprocessed or minimally quality, unprocessed or minimally quality, unprocessed or minimally processed foods for just a couple of processed foods for just a couple of processed foods for just a couple of weeks. At first, it's murder. They just weeks. At first, it's murder. They just weeks. At first, it's murder. They just can't do it. And then inevitably, they can't do it. And then inevitably, they can't do it. And then inevitably, they call me and they say, "I feel so much call me and they say, "I feel so much call me and they say, "I feel so much better and I don't even want that stuff better and I don't even want that stuff better and I don't even want that stuff anymore." anymore." anymore." >> It's interesting how that then >> It's interesting how that then >> It's interesting how that then correlates with your own motivation. And correlates with your own motivation. And correlates with your own motivation. And I it's we fly out here to do this I it's we fly out here to do this I it's we fly out here to do this podcast and we come out sometimes for podcast and we come out sometimes for podcast and we come out sometimes for two weeks, three weeks, sometimes even two weeks, three weeks, sometimes even two weeks, three weeks, sometimes even four weeks, and we all eat the same four weeks, and we all eat the same four weeks, and we all eat the same thing pretty much throughout the day for thing pretty much throughout the day for thing pretty much throughout the day for those four weeks. So, it's almost a those four weeks. So, it's almost a those four weeks. So, it's almost a dietary intervention for me because when dietary intervention for me because when dietary intervention for me because when we finish recording, my food is going to we finish recording, my food is going to we finish recording, my food is going to be there and I know what it's going to be there and I know what it's going to be there and I know what it's going to be. It's going to be basically a salad be. It's going to be basically a salad be. It's going to be basically a salad with meat in it, certain vegetables, with meat in it, certain vegetables, with meat in it, certain vegetables, etc. And so, it becomes this like etc. And so, it becomes this like etc. And so, it becomes this like intervention. Going to LA is this intervention. Going to LA is this intervention. Going to LA is this dietary intervention. What happens is dietary intervention. What happens is dietary intervention. What happens is when I come here and have that salad when I come here and have that salad when I come here and have that salad every day with various different meats every day with various different meats every day with various different meats and various different vegetables every and various different vegetables every and various different vegetables every day is my motivation to go to the gym day is my motivation to go to the gym day is my motivation to go to the gym for some reason improves. Mhm. for some reason improves. Mhm. for some reason improves. Mhm. >> My sleep ends up improving and it's like >> My sleep ends up improving and it's like >> My sleep ends up improving and it's like my that one sort of dietary intervention my that one sort of dietary intervention my that one sort of dietary intervention has this really downstream impact on has this really downstream impact on has this really downstream impact on everything else. I get in the I get in everything else. I get in the I get in everything else. I get in the I get in the best shape of my life. I'm the best shape of my life. I'm the best shape of my life. I'm motivated. I feel good. I drive along.
2:02motivated. I feel good. I drive along. motivated. I feel good. I drive along. It might also be the sunshine out here. It might also be the sunshine out here. It might also be the sunshine out here. But But But >> and I just I I think people don't >> and I just I I think people don't >> and I just I I think people don't realize that even as you say a week or realize that even as you say a week or realize that even as you say a week or two having that dietary intervention two having that dietary intervention two having that dietary intervention intervention cutting out the crap can intervention cutting out the crap can intervention cutting out the crap can have such a big reframing on your have such a big reframing on your have such a big reframing on your perception of food, how you experience perception of food, how you experience perception of food, how you experience [clears throat] it. And now I'm excited [clears throat] it. And now I'm excited [clears throat] it. And now I'm excited about the bloody salad. Yeah, it's wild about the bloody salad. Yeah, it's wild about the bloody salad. Yeah, it's wild how healthy foods become more attractive how healthy foods become more attractive how healthy foods become more attractive to us the more [clears throat] we to us the more [clears throat] we to us the more [clears throat] we consume them and the more we avoid consume them and the more we avoid consume them and the more we avoid unhealthy foods. I think also a lot of unhealthy foods. I think also a lot of unhealthy foods. I think also a lot of people don't know how great you can feel people don't know how great you can feel people don't know how great you can feel getting some morning sunlight, great getting some morning sunlight, great getting some morning sunlight, great sleep, eating nutritious food. sleep, eating nutritious food. sleep, eating nutritious food. >> And once they do, once they experience >> And once they do, once they experience >> And once they do, once they experience that lift in energy and mood, it's kind that lift in energy and mood, it's kind that lift in energy and mood, it's kind of addictive in its own right. of addictive in its own right. of addictive in its own right. >> Now, I also think it's important to not >> Now, I also think it's important to not >> Now, I also think it's important to not be too restrictive, right? You know, be too restrictive, right? You know, be too restrictive, right? You know, around the holidays or something. I I around the holidays or something. I I around the holidays or something. I I mean, I love a great slice of pie. Like, mean, I love a great slice of pie. Like, mean, I love a great slice of pie. Like, I do these things. I think if one gets I do these things. I think if one gets I do these things. I think if one gets enough movement then you're fine. Um you enough movement then you're fine. Um you enough movement then you're fine. Um you know if nothing else this whole um kind know if nothing else this whole um kind know if nothing else this whole um kind of trend toward the use of these GLP-1 of trend toward the use of these GLP-1 of trend toward the use of these GLP-1 glucagon like peptide agonist like ompic
2:03glucagon like peptide agonist like ompic glucagon like peptide agonist like ompic and mjaro if it's taught us anything and mjaro if it's taught us anything and mjaro if it's taught us anything it's that people are obese because they it's that people are obese because they it's that people are obese because they consume too many calories. They just consume too many calories. They just consume too many calories. They just ingest too much relative to their ingest too much relative to their ingest too much relative to their activity levels. And here in particular activity levels. And here in particular activity levels. And here in particular in the United States people are walking in the United States people are walking in the United States people are walking and moving far less. Most people get no and moving far less. Most people get no and moving far less. Most people get no regular exercise and they consume about regular exercise and they consume about regular exercise and they consume about 3,500 calories per day on average. So 3,500 calories per day on average. So 3,500 calories per day on average. So they're just on a steady weight increase they're just on a steady weight increase they're just on a steady weight increase for most of their life. for most of their life. for most of their life. More activity, less food intake is More activity, less food intake is More activity, less food intake is fairly easy to accomplish if you do just fairly easy to accomplish if you do just fairly easy to accomplish if you do just a few subtle things. So there are these a few subtle things. So there are these a few subtle things. So there are these levers, these major levers like eating levers, these major levers like eating levers, these major levers like eating better, as you said, meat and salads. I better, as you said, meat and salads. I better, as you said, meat and salads. I mean, it's one of the most satiating mean, it's one of the most satiating mean, it's one of the most satiating meals you can have. I also find that if meals you can have. I also find that if meals you can have. I also find that if I consume fewer carbohydrates during the I consume fewer carbohydrates during the I consume fewer carbohydrates during the day, this is just me, it runs day, this is just me, it runs day, this is just me, it runs countercurrent to most everything you'll countercurrent to most everything you'll countercurrent to most everything you'll read out there. But I like to fast read out there. But I like to fast read out there. But I like to fast essentially until about 11 or noon just essentially until about 11 or noon just essentially until about 11 or noon just because I'm not hungry. I like to because I'm not hungry. I like to because I'm not hungry. I like to exercise in the morning. But then I'll exercise in the morning. But then I'll exercise in the morning. But then I'll have a lunch that is some meat, some have a lunch that is some meat, some have a lunch that is some meat, some salad, maybe some starch, like a bowl of salad, maybe some starch, like a bowl of salad, maybe some starch, like a bowl of oatmeal or rice, but not a whole lot. oatmeal or rice, but not a whole lot. oatmeal or rice, but not a whole lot. And then toward evening, my final meal, And then toward evening, my final meal, And then toward evening, my final meal, you know, dinner, which is around 7 or 8 you know, dinner, which is around 7 or 8 you know, dinner, which is around 7 or 8 p.m., generally includes a few more
2:04p.m., generally includes a few more p.m., generally includes a few more starches and a little less protein, and starches and a little less protein, and starches and a little less protein, and I sleep best that way. Some people it's I sleep best that way. Some people it's I sleep best that way. Some people it's the opposite. They like a big bowl of the opposite. They like a big bowl of the opposite. They like a big bowl of oatmeal and just a couple of eggs in the oatmeal and just a couple of eggs in the oatmeal and just a couple of eggs in the morning and you know and some nuts in morning and you know and some nuts in morning and you know and some nuts in the afternoon and then they like a big the afternoon and then they like a big the afternoon and then they like a big steak for dinner. You know, I think steak for dinner. You know, I think steak for dinner. You know, I think everybody's slightly different. Some everybody's slightly different. Some everybody's slightly different. Some people are just naturally have more people are just naturally have more people are just naturally have more energy. I think about Jaco Willink. I energy. I think about Jaco Willink. I energy. I think about Jaco Willink. I mean, the guy has so much energy and I mean, the guy has so much energy and I mean, the guy has so much energy and I think it's not a coincidence that he think it's not a coincidence that he think it's not a coincidence that he works out at 4:30 in the morning. I works out at 4:30 in the morning. I works out at 4:30 in the morning. I think that if you work out early in the think that if you work out early in the think that if you work out early in the day, you often have more energy day, you often have more energy day, you often have more energy throughout the day. I find if I get my throughout the day. I find if I get my throughout the day. I find if I get my workout done before 9:00 a.m. I have workout done before 9:00 a.m. I have workout done before 9:00 a.m. I have more energy all day long. However, if I more energy all day long. However, if I more energy all day long. However, if I work out midm morning, late morning, work out midm morning, late morning, work out midm morning, late morning, pretty sleepy in the afternoon. pretty sleepy in the afternoon. pretty sleepy in the afternoon. Everybody's different. Everybody's different. Everybody's different. >> Is there like a physiological rationale >> Is there like a physiological rationale >> Is there like a physiological rationale for that? for that? for that? >> There probably is. You know, as our body >> There probably is. You know, as our body >> There probably is. You know, as our body temperature rises in the morning, we are temperature rises in the morning, we are temperature rises in the morning, we are waking up. So, when we exercise, we waking up. So, when we exercise, we waking up. So, when we exercise, we accelerate that transition toward being accelerate that transition toward being accelerate that transition toward being more alert. Now, in the afternoon, when more alert. Now, in the afternoon, when more alert. Now, in the afternoon, when our body temperature typically peaks, our body temperature typically peaks, our body temperature typically peaks, after that is usually when we get a bit after that is usually when we get a bit after that is usually when we get a bit sleepy. Typically, after lunch, people
2:05sleepy. Typically, after lunch, people sleepy. Typically, after lunch, people get sleepy. sometimes because of the get sleepy. sometimes because of the get sleepy. sometimes because of the volume of food they they've eaten, most volume of food they they've eaten, most volume of food they they've eaten, most often it's because they've hit that often it's because they've hit that often it's because they've hit that temperature peak in the early afternoon. temperature peak in the early afternoon. temperature peak in the early afternoon. And we know that as body temperature And we know that as body temperature And we know that as body temperature drops 1 to 3° in the evening and drops 1 to 3° in the evening and drops 1 to 3° in the evening and nighttime, that's when we fall asleep. nighttime, that's when we fall asleep. nighttime, that's when we fall asleep. In fact, in order to fall asleep, your In fact, in order to fall asleep, your In fact, in order to fall asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by body temperature actually has to drop by body temperature actually has to drop by about 1 to 3°. This is why, you know, about 1 to 3°. This is why, you know, about 1 to 3°. This is why, you know, sticking a foot out of the, you know, sticking a foot out of the, you know, sticking a foot out of the, you know, the comforter or if you have a cooling the comforter or if you have a cooling the comforter or if you have a cooling mattress, which some people require mattress, which some people require mattress, which some people require because they run hot, or keeping the because they run hot, or keeping the because they run hot, or keeping the room cool facilitates falling asleep, room cool facilitates falling asleep, room cool facilitates falling asleep, although it's not completely the case. although it's not completely the case. although it's not completely the case. So, I should mention the best scenario So, I should mention the best scenario So, I should mention the best scenario would be cool room with warm blankets to would be cool room with warm blankets to would be cool room with warm blankets to fall asleep and then toward morning sort fall asleep and then toward morning sort fall asleep and then toward morning sort of a warmer environment. We actually get of a warmer environment. We actually get of a warmer environment. We actually get a little bit more rapid eye movement a little bit more rapid eye movement a little bit more rapid eye movement sleep, dream sleep, elaborate dream sleep, dream sleep, elaborate dream sleep, dream sleep, elaborate dream sleep toward morning. So, you can get sleep toward morning. So, you can get sleep toward morning. So, you can get really nuanced in this stuff. All the really nuanced in this stuff. All the really nuanced in this stuff. All the biohackers know this, but you know, biohackers know this, but you know, biohackers know this, but you know, basically, if you work out early in the basically, if you work out early in the basically, if you work out early in the day, you know, before 8 or 9:00 am, it's day, you know, before 8 or 9:00 am, it's day, you know, before 8 or 9:00 am, it's going to accelerate that increase in going to accelerate that increase in going to accelerate that increase in body temperature and you'll feel more
2:06body temperature and you'll feel more body temperature and you'll feel more alert. There's also this beautiful alert. There's also this beautiful alert. There's also this beautiful phenomenon in circadian biology called phenomenon in circadian biology called phenomenon in circadian biology called entrainment, whereby, let's say you're entrainment, whereby, let's say you're entrainment, whereby, let's say you're not a morning person, you hate mornings. not a morning person, you hate mornings. not a morning person, you hate mornings. If you force yourself to get up and If you force yourself to get up and If you force yourself to get up and exercise at say 6:00 am for three days exercise at say 6:00 am for three days exercise at say 6:00 am for three days in a row by the fourth day you'll in a row by the fourth day you'll in a row by the fourth day you'll naturally start waking up around that naturally start waking up around that naturally start waking up around that time because the circadian clock of the time because the circadian clock of the time because the circadian clock of the brain we call the super kaismatic brain we call the super kaismatic brain we call the super kaismatic nucleus. The main inputs that drive when nucleus. The main inputs that drive when nucleus. The main inputs that drive when you're alert and when you want to be you're alert and when you want to be you're alert and when you want to be asleep are sunlight exposure to the asleep are sunlight exposure to the asleep are sunlight exposure to the eyes. This is the whole basis for that eyes. This is the whole basis for that eyes. This is the whole basis for that morning sunlight exposure, physical morning sunlight exposure, physical morning sunlight exposure, physical activity, when you eat and social activity, when you eat and social activity, when you eat and social engagement. And there could be a whole engagement. And there could be a whole engagement. And there could be a whole discussion about this, but suffice to discussion about this, but suffice to discussion about this, but suffice to say that if you start getting some say that if you start getting some say that if you start getting some morning light, some exercise, maybe even morning light, some exercise, maybe even morning light, some exercise, maybe even before the sun comes out, some caffeine, before the sun comes out, some caffeine, before the sun comes out, some caffeine, hydration, and then a meal in the early hydration, and then a meal in the early hydration, and then a meal in the early part of the day, your body will start to part of the day, your body will start to part of the day, your body will start to anticipate all of those activities. And anticipate all of those activities. And anticipate all of those activities. And even if you're a so-called night owl, even if you're a so-called night owl, even if you're a so-called night owl, you'll start to shift your clock toward you'll start to shift your clock toward you'll start to shift your clock toward being a early riser. And lo and behold, being a early riser. And lo and behold, being a early riser. And lo and behold, around 10 or 11 p.m., you'll start to around 10 or 11 p.m., you'll start to around 10 or 11 p.m., you'll start to notice you're getting sleepy. Then you notice you're getting sleepy. Then you notice you're getting sleepy. Then you just have to have the discipline to turn
2:07just have to have the discipline to turn just have to have the discipline to turn off the phone, put it in the other room, off the phone, put it in the other room, off the phone, put it in the other room, and go to sleep. I and go to sleep. I and go to sleep. I >> I wonder that. I do wonder if I'm a >> I wonder that. I do wonder if I'm a >> I wonder that. I do wonder if I'm a night out because of bad habits or night out because of bad habits or night out because of bad habits or because of some kind of biology. because of some kind of biology. because of some kind of biology. >> Typically, people fall into one of three >> Typically, people fall into one of three >> Typically, people fall into one of three categories and it is genetically categories and it is genetically categories and it is genetically determined of you can be a morning determined of you can be a morning determined of you can be a morning person. A more typical would be somebody person. A more typical would be somebody person. A more typical would be somebody who goes to sleep somewhere between who goes to sleep somewhere between who goes to sleep somewhere between 10:30 and midnight, wakes up between 10:30 and midnight, wakes up between 10:30 and midnight, wakes up between 6:00 and 8:00 a.m. And then the night 6:00 and 8:00 a.m. And then the night 6:00 and 8:00 a.m. And then the night owls who like to stay up till 1 or two owls who like to stay up till 1 or two owls who like to stay up till 1 or two in the morning, wake up around, you in the morning, wake up around, you in the morning, wake up around, you know, 10 or 11 a.m. It changes with age. know, 10 or 11 a.m. It changes with age. know, 10 or 11 a.m. It changes with age. I'm a bit of a weirdo in the sense that I'm a bit of a weirdo in the sense that I'm a bit of a weirdo in the sense that I like to do most of my mental and I like to do most of my mental and I like to do most of my mental and physical work between 6:00 a.m. and physical work between 6:00 a.m. and physical work between 6:00 a.m. and noon. Then I'm not super effective in noon. Then I'm not super effective in noon. Then I'm not super effective in the afternoon. My brain doesn't work so the afternoon. My brain doesn't work so the afternoon. My brain doesn't work so well. I can take care of some little well. I can take care of some little well. I can take care of some little things unless I offset that. And then things unless I offset that. And then things unless I offset that. And then between 6:00 p.m. and midnight, I'm between 6:00 p.m. and midnight, I'm between 6:00 p.m. and midnight, I'm alert again. I don't know, maybe it's my alert again. I don't know, maybe it's my alert again. I don't know, maybe it's my Argentine roots. Who knows? So, given Argentine roots. Who knows? So, given Argentine roots. Who knows? So, given it's the afternoon now and I knew that it's the afternoon now and I knew that it's the afternoon now and I knew that we were going to be podcasting, what I we were going to be podcasting, what I we were going to be podcasting, what I did is I did indeed get up at 6:45 a.m. did is I did indeed get up at 6:45 a.m. did is I did indeed get up at 6:45 a.m. I did a bunch of work this morning for
2:08I did a bunch of work this morning for I did a bunch of work this morning for the podcast, some other things. And then the podcast, some other things. And then the podcast, some other things. And then on the way here, I did a non-sleep deep on the way here, I did a non-sleep deep on the way here, I did a non-sleep deep rest. I listened to that for about 10 rest. I listened to that for about 10 rest. I listened to that for about 10 minutes. I kind of sensed I was minutes. I kind of sensed I was minutes. I kind of sensed I was somewhere in sleep. I don't quite somewhere in sleep. I don't quite somewhere in sleep. I don't quite recall. And then when we arrived, I'm a recall. And then when we arrived, I'm a recall. And then when we arrived, I'm a little bit groggy, a little bit of little bit groggy, a little bit of little bit groggy, a little bit of hydration, little bit of caffeine, and I hydration, little bit of caffeine, and I hydration, little bit of caffeine, and I feel completely alert. So, you can learn feel completely alert. So, you can learn feel completely alert. So, you can learn to offset these troughs in energy. I to offset these troughs in energy. I to offset these troughs in energy. I think that at every stage of life, think that at every stage of life, think that at every stage of life, meaning for every 5-year block of life, meaning for every 5-year block of life, meaning for every 5-year block of life, you can kind of predict what the best you can kind of predict what the best you can kind of predict what the best schedule for you would be. So, when schedule for you would be. So, when schedule for you would be. So, when you're a baby, you slept all the time. you're a baby, you slept all the time. you're a baby, you slept all the time. That's your best schedule. When you were That's your best schedule. When you were That's your best schedule. When you were an adolescent, it was different. I have an adolescent, it was different. I have an adolescent, it was different. I have a niece, she's 17, and I went and stayed a niece, she's 17, and I went and stayed a niece, she's 17, and I went and stayed with my sister recently, and it was with my sister recently, and it was with my sister recently, and it was unbelievable. She went to bed at 10:30 unbelievable. She went to bed at 10:30 unbelievable. She went to bed at 10:30 at night, probably fell asleep at at night, probably fell asleep at at night, probably fell asleep at midnight cuz she was on her iPad with midnight cuz she was on her iPad with midnight cuz she was on her iPad with her friends. She would wake up the next her friends. She would wake up the next her friends. She would wake up the next day at noon. It's summertime. get up, day at noon. It's summertime. get up, day at noon. It's summertime. get up, say hello, get a glass of water, go back say hello, get a glass of water, go back say hello, get a glass of water, go back to sleep, and sleep for another hour. to sleep, and sleep for another hour. to sleep, and sleep for another hour. And that's exactly what she should be And that's exactly what she should be And that's exactly what she should be doing. Why? Because she's growing, doing. Why? Because she's growing, doing. Why? Because she's growing, right? She's a she's youth in youth. In right? She's a she's youth in youth. In right? She's a she's youth in youth. In your 30s, it might be a different your 30s, it might be a different your 30s, it might be a different schedule. In your 40s, a different schedule. In your 40s, a different schedule. In your 40s, a different schedule. And then, of course, kids come
2:09schedule. And then, of course, kids come schedule. And then, of course, kids come along and they force the schedule. So, I along and they force the schedule. So, I along and they force the schedule. So, I would say whatever stage of life you're would say whatever stage of life you're would say whatever stage of life you're in, you probably know what the best in, you probably know what the best in, you probably know what the best schedule is for you, and you just have schedule is for you, and you just have schedule is for you, and you just have to work with the realities of life. But to work with the realities of life. But to work with the realities of life. But if you can adhere to that, knowing, if you can adhere to that, knowing, if you can adhere to that, knowing, okay, you have a peak in energy and okay, you have a peak in energy and okay, you have a peak in energy and focus at this hour or a peak in energy focus at this hour or a peak in energy focus at this hour or a peak in energy and focus at that hour, by all means do and focus at that hour, by all means do and focus at that hour, by all means do it. I mean, Rick Rubin shared um when he it. I mean, Rick Rubin shared um when he it. I mean, Rick Rubin shared um when he came on my podcast that his best day is came on my podcast that his best day is came on my podcast that his best day is to transition slowly into the day. Take to transition slowly into the day. Take to transition slowly into the day. Take a walk outside in the sun in the a walk outside in the sun in the a walk outside in the sun in the morning, slowly into the day, and then morning, slowly into the day, and then morning, slowly into the day, and then he does his work really his main focused he does his work really his main focused he does his work really his main focused work in the afternoon and in the work in the afternoon and in the work in the afternoon and in the evening. Some people are more night evening. Some people are more night evening. Some people are more night shifted, some people are more morning shifted, some people are more morning shifted, some people are more morning shifted. I tend to get my best ideas, I shifted. I tend to get my best ideas, I shifted. I tend to get my best ideas, I think, right before I go to sleep, which think, right before I go to sleep, which think, right before I go to sleep, which is annoying because there's this is annoying because there's this is annoying because there's this temptation to go to my laptop and begin temptation to go to my laptop and begin temptation to go to my laptop and begin writing and begin working. writing and begin working. writing and begin working. >> Do you write them down? >> Do you write them down? >> Do you write them down? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I write down little cues and then my >> I write down little cues and then my >> I write down little cues and then my team will know because it's useful when team will know because it's useful when team will know because it's useful when I'm on this time frame because my team I'm on this time frame because my team I'm on this time frame because my team in the UK are getting my my memos in the UK are getting my my memos in the UK are getting my my memos >> at 7 a.m. there, >> at 7 a.m. there, >> at 7 a.m. there, >> but they don't know that I'm it's like
2:10>> but they don't know that I'm it's like >> but they don't know that I'm it's like midnight or 1:00 a.m. here. midnight or 1:00 a.m. here. midnight or 1:00 a.m. here. >> I'm so glad you mentioned this. I think >> I'm so glad you mentioned this. I think >> I'm so glad you mentioned this. I think for people who are interested in having for people who are interested in having for people who are interested in having a great life, a great career, it's very a great life, a great career, it's very a great life, a great career, it's very important to have a mode of capture. So important to have a mode of capture. So important to have a mode of capture. So for me, um it's this notebook and it's for me, um it's this notebook and it's for me, um it's this notebook and it's not just blank pages in front of me. I not just blank pages in front of me. I not just blank pages in front of me. I promise these are just like little promise these are just like little promise these are just like little little things that come to mind. Um it little things that come to mind. Um it little things that come to mind. Um it doesn't matter what's here. Um doesn't matter what's here. Um doesn't matter what's here. Um and I place them into the notebook and and I place them into the notebook and and I place them into the notebook and then at the end of each week or so or if then at the end of each week or so or if then at the end of each week or so or if I'm on a plane, I'll start to look back I'm on a plane, I'll start to look back I'm on a plane, I'll start to look back and see, you know, what are the ideas and see, you know, what are the ideas and see, you know, what are the ideas that feel sticky? Like, oh, there's that feel sticky? Like, oh, there's that feel sticky? Like, oh, there's something there. There's like a concept something there. There's like a concept something there. There's like a concept there. I'm actually thinking about doing there. I'm actually thinking about doing there. I'm actually thinking about doing a a a drawing book to teach neuroscience a a a drawing book to teach neuroscience a a a drawing book to teach neuroscience at some point. I'm also very interested at some point. I'm also very interested at some point. I'm also very interested in animals. So, I was listing out this in animals. So, I was listing out this in animals. So, I was listing out this is very um embarrassing, but the is very um embarrassing, but the is very um embarrassing, but the different animals different animals different animals >> that I feel I embodied at different >> that I feel I embodied at different >> that I feel I embodied at different stages of my life and where I'm at now stages of my life and where I'm at now stages of my life and where I'm at now because of the different energies. And because of the different energies. And because of the different energies. And this is very personal, right? like in this is very personal, right? like in this is very personal, right? like in the sense that it's not going to mean the sense that it's not going to mean the sense that it's not going to mean much in the kind of classic neuroscience much in the kind of classic neuroscience much in the kind of classic neuroscience sense. But I think having a mode of sense. But I think having a mode of sense. But I think having a mode of capture for these thoughts that capture for these thoughts that capture for these thoughts that spontaneously arise out of our
2:11spontaneously arise out of our spontaneously arise out of our unconscious mind, I mean, that's what's unconscious mind, I mean, that's what's unconscious mind, I mean, that's what's happening when you're falling asleep. happening when you're falling asleep. happening when you're falling asleep. Your conscious mind, which is involved Your conscious mind, which is involved Your conscious mind, which is involved in thinking and planning and organizing in thinking and planning and organizing in thinking and planning and organizing knowledge, is starting to tire. Those knowledge, is starting to tire. Those knowledge, is starting to tire. Those prefrontal cortex circuits are starting prefrontal cortex circuits are starting prefrontal cortex circuits are starting to tire. And your unconscious mind, to tire. And your unconscious mind, to tire. And your unconscious mind, which is the main driver of all your which is the main driver of all your which is the main driver of all your ideas and so much of what you you are ideas and so much of what you you are ideas and so much of what you you are about as an individual, are starting to about as an individual, are starting to about as an individual, are starting to geyser to the surface. This is why in geyser to the surface. This is why in geyser to the surface. This is why in dreams even though it occurs in symbols dreams even though it occurs in symbols dreams even though it occurs in symbols we are playing with different ideas and we are playing with different ideas and we are playing with different ideas and ordering of different ideas. This is not ordering of different ideas. This is not ordering of different ideas. This is not Freudian okay this is not just yungian Freudian okay this is not just yungian Freudian okay this is not just yungian psychology we had an expert in this you psychology we had an expert in this you psychology we had an expert in this you know Dr. Paul Kiy did a mental health know Dr. Paul Kiy did a mental health know Dr. Paul Kiy did a mental health series on our podcast and he said you series on our podcast and he said you series on our podcast and he said you know the bulk of your brain activity know the bulk of your brain activity know the bulk of your brain activity besides the stuff that's just regulating besides the stuff that's just regulating besides the stuff that's just regulating breathing and heart rate and digestion breathing and heart rate and digestion breathing and heart rate and digestion etc is really devoted to this etc is really devoted to this etc is really devoted to this unconscious processing. It's taking unconscious processing. It's taking unconscious processing. It's taking events from your childhood, plans that events from your childhood, plans that events from your childhood, plans that you have that you don't even know yet, you have that you don't even know yet, you have that you don't even know yet, that aren't aware of yet, experiences that aren't aware of yet, experiences that aren't aware of yet, experiences that are happening today, and and that are happening today, and and that are happening today, and and looking at those from different looking at those from different looking at those from different perspectives, and offering those to you perspectives, and offering those to you
2:12perspectives, and offering those to you in in what? In dreams. What are dreams? in in what? In dreams. What are dreams? in in what? In dreams. What are dreams? In stories, in narratives that are In stories, in narratives that are In stories, in narratives that are really disrupted in space and time. A really disrupted in space and time. A really disrupted in space and time. A lot can happen in a short period of lot can happen in a short period of lot can happen in a short period of time, then you're in a different room. time, then you're in a different room. time, then you're in a different room. Dreams are very distorted in terms of Dreams are very distorted in terms of Dreams are very distorted in terms of their representation. But when you're their representation. But when you're their representation. But when you're falling asleep, you're in that pseudo falling asleep, you're in that pseudo falling asleep, you're in that pseudo awake state obviously where your awake state obviously where your awake state obviously where your thinking, planning and action parts of thinking, planning and action parts of thinking, planning and action parts of your brain, your logical mind is turned your brain, your logical mind is turned your brain, your logical mind is turned off and these ideas are gering to the off and these ideas are gering to the off and these ideas are gering to the surface. surface. surface. >> And this is why sometimes people have >> And this is why sometimes people have >> And this is why sometimes people have their best ideas in the shower, while their best ideas in the shower, while their best ideas in the shower, while walking when they're not trying to have walking when they're not trying to have walking when they're not trying to have ideas. And you can seed this by writing ideas. And you can seed this by writing ideas. And you can seed this by writing down a few things before you go to down a few things before you go to down a few things before you go to sleep. You can think, you know, like sleep. You can think, you know, like sleep. You can think, you know, like wondering what to do next year. wondering what to do next year. wondering what to do next year. Don't know. Okay, maybe it's that vague. Don't know. Okay, maybe it's that vague. Don't know. Okay, maybe it's that vague. Does that mean you'll have a dream that Does that mean you'll have a dream that Does that mean you'll have a dream that solves it that night? Maybe. Probably solves it that night? Maybe. Probably solves it that night? Maybe. Probably not. But chances are if you pay not. But chances are if you pay not. But chances are if you pay attention to, you know, during the day attention to, you know, during the day attention to, you know, during the day you'll be walking along or for some you'll be walking along or for some you'll be walking along or for some reason this always happens to me when reason this always happens to me when reason this always happens to me when I'm um uh urinating. I don't know I'm um uh urinating. I don't know I'm um uh urinating. I don't know [laughter] why. I don't know why. Like I [laughter] why. I don't know why. Like I [laughter] why. I don't know why. Like I go like I don't know, maybe it's because
2:13go like I don't know, maybe it's because go like I don't know, maybe it's because I'm relaxed. Like I go, especially if I'm relaxed. Like I go, especially if I'm relaxed. Like I go, especially if I'm in nature and I'm hiking, I'll go I'm in nature and I'm hiking, I'll go I'm in nature and I'm hiking, I'll go like take a take a pee behind a tree and like take a take a pee behind a tree and like take a take a pee behind a tree and I I'll be like, "Oh, I have an idea." I I I'll be like, "Oh, I have an idea." I I I'll be like, "Oh, I have an idea." I [laughter] don't know why that is. I [laughter] don't know why that is. I [laughter] don't know why that is. I think it's because I'm not thinking think it's because I'm not thinking think it's because I'm not thinking about doing anything except, you know, about doing anything except, you know, about doing anything except, you know, I'm taking a leap behind a tree. I guess I'm taking a leap behind a tree. I guess I'm taking a leap behind a tree. I guess this is very forthcoming for me to admit this is very forthcoming for me to admit this is very forthcoming for me to admit this, but [clears throat] you know, some this, but [clears throat] you know, some this, but [clears throat] you know, some people stay in the shower, other people people stay in the shower, other people people stay in the shower, other people while they're running. One thing that I while they're running. One thing that I while they're running. One thing that I think is really useful for coming up think is really useful for coming up think is really useful for coming up with ideas, I seem to be mentioning Rick with ideas, I seem to be mentioning Rick with ideas, I seem to be mentioning Rick a lot today, but um one thing I observed a lot today, but um one thing I observed a lot today, but um one thing I observed when I spent time with Rick is he has a when I spent time with Rick is he has a when I spent time with Rick is he has a kind of a practice, although he's never kind of a practice, although he's never kind of a practice, although he's never said this formally, where he'll be very said this formally, where he'll be very said this formally, where he'll be very still with his eyes closed. And I still with his eyes closed. And I still with his eyes closed. And I thought maybe he's meditating, maybe thought maybe he's meditating, maybe thought maybe he's meditating, maybe he's um sleeping. And it turns out he he's um sleeping. And it turns out he he's um sleeping. And it turns out he told me that his mind is very active in told me that his mind is very active in told me that his mind is very active in that time even though his body is very that time even though his body is very that time even though his body is very still. Now that sparked something in me still. Now that sparked something in me still. Now that sparked something in me because I have a guest or had a guest on because I have a guest or had a guest on because I have a guest or had a guest on my podcast by the name of Carl Dyeroth. my podcast by the name of Carl Dyeroth. my podcast by the name of Carl Dyeroth. He's one of the luminaries in the field He's one of the luminaries in the field He's one of the luminaries in the field of neuroscience and one of the best of neuroscience and one of the best of neuroscience and one of the best bioengineers in the world. He's also a bioengineers in the world. He's also a bioengineers in the world. He's also a psychiatrist, a brilliant guy. And when
2:14psychiatrist, a brilliant guy. And when psychiatrist, a brilliant guy. And when he came on my podcast, he said that he he came on my podcast, he said that he he came on my podcast, he said that he has a practice every night after he puts has a practice every night after he puts has a practice every night after he puts his five kids to sleep. He's one of his five kids to sleep. He's one of his five kids to sleep. He's one of these hyperproductive people where he these hyperproductive people where he these hyperproductive people where he sits down and he makes himself stay as sits down and he makes himself stay as sits down and he makes himself stay as completely still as possible and forces completely still as possible and forces completely still as possible and forces himself to think in complete sentences. himself to think in complete sentences. himself to think in complete sentences. And I thought this is interesting And I thought this is interesting And I thought this is interesting because it was also reported or because it was also reported or because it was also reported or purported that Einstein would take walks purported that Einstein would take walks purported that Einstein would take walks and then occasionally just stop and then occasionally just stop and then occasionally just stop and let his mind continue in thinking and let his mind continue in thinking and let his mind continue in thinking while he stopped his body. And when you while he stopped his body. And when you while he stopped his body. And when you start looking back through history of start looking back through history of start looking back through history of science, history of music, etc., You'll science, history of music, etc., You'll science, history of music, etc., You'll find that there are these hyper find that there are these hyper find that there are these hyper creative, hyperproductive people that creative, hyperproductive people that creative, hyperproductive people that have a practice of making their body have a practice of making their body have a practice of making their body completely still and their mind very completely still and their mind very completely still and their mind very active. Not meditation where you're active. Not meditation where you're active. Not meditation where you're trying to just focus on your breathing, trying to just focus on your breathing, trying to just focus on your breathing, but they're actually actively thinking but they're actually actively thinking but they're actually actively thinking while keeping their body very still. while keeping their body very still. while keeping their body very still. Now, I find that fascinating. I also Now, I find that fascinating. I also Now, I find that fascinating. I also find it fascinating that some people, find it fascinating that some people, find it fascinating that some people, for instance, myself, if I take a long for instance, myself, if I take a long for instance, myself, if I take a long run, which I do every Sunday, I make it run, which I do every Sunday, I make it run, which I do every Sunday, I make it a point to run for 60 to 90 minutes
2:15a point to run for 60 to 90 minutes a point to run for 60 to 90 minutes every Sunday. not fast, but I just go go every Sunday. not fast, but I just go go every Sunday. not fast, but I just go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go. Inevitably go go go go go go go go. Inevitably go go go go go go go go. Inevitably during those runs I come up with some of during those runs I come up with some of during those runs I come up with some of my best ideas. It's a it puts my brain my best ideas. It's a it puts my brain my best ideas. It's a it puts my brain into a state where I can things geyser into a state where I can things geyser into a state where I can things geyser up from my unconscious mind. And so that up from my unconscious mind. And so that up from my unconscious mind. And so that state of mind is one in which the body state of mind is one in which the body state of mind is one in which the body is very active and I'm not trying to is very active and I'm not trying to is very active and I'm not trying to think about anything. So you have these think about anything. So you have these think about anything. So you have these two inverse states. One is body still two inverse states. One is body still two inverse states. One is body still mind active. The other is body active mind active. The other is body active mind active. The other is body active mind kind of free running kind of just mind kind of free running kind of just mind kind of free running kind of just like spooling out. But when I'm running, like spooling out. But when I'm running, like spooling out. But when I'm running, I'm not thinking about anything and then I'm not thinking about anything and then I'm not thinking about anything and then ideas spring to the surface. ideas spring to the surface. ideas spring to the surface. >> In the neuroscience of creativity, we >> In the neuroscience of creativity, we >> In the neuroscience of creativity, we know that there's a meditation practice know that there's a meditation practice know that there's a meditation practice that's been studied called open that's been studied called open that's been studied called open monitoring meditation. Most typical monitoring meditation. Most typical monitoring meditation. Most typical meditation is you sit or lie down, close meditation is you sit or lie down, close meditation is you sit or lie down, close your eyes, maybe lotus position, maybe your eyes, maybe lotus position, maybe your eyes, maybe lotus position, maybe not, and you concentrate on your not, and you concentrate on your not, and you concentrate on your breathing. You bring your attention breathing. You bring your attention breathing. You bring your attention constantly back to your third eye constantly back to your third eye constantly back to your third eye center. Work from Wendy Suzuki's center. Work from Wendy Suzuki's center. Work from Wendy Suzuki's laboratory at NYU has shown just 10 to laboratory at NYU has shown just 10 to laboratory at NYU has shown just 10 to 13 minutes of that practice every day 13 minutes of that practice every day 13 minutes of that practice every day can improve memory in particular working
2:16can improve memory in particular working can improve memory in particular working memory which is your ability to keep memory which is your ability to keep memory which is your ability to keep thoughts online lower stress and other thoughts online lower stress and other thoughts online lower stress and other benefits. There's a different form of benefits. There's a different form of benefits. There's a different form of meditation which is open monitoring meditation which is open monitoring meditation which is open monitoring meditation where you sit or lie down, meditation where you sit or lie down, meditation where you sit or lie down, close your eyes and you actually are close your eyes and you actually are close your eyes and you actually are paying attention to everything around paying attention to everything around paying attention to everything around you. You focus your attention there in you. You focus your attention there in you. You focus your attention there in the room, there in the room, there in the room, there in the room, there in the room, there in the room, there in the room. Or you just let it all just the room. Or you just let it all just the room. Or you just let it all just kind of sift over you. You're not kind of sift over you. You're not kind of sift over you. You're not actually focusing on your breathing. And actually focusing on your breathing. And actually focusing on your breathing. And that practice of open monitoring that practice of open monitoring that practice of open monitoring meditation is associated with improved meditation is associated with improved meditation is associated with improved creative capacity. Now, improved creative capacity. Now, improved creative capacity. Now, improved creative capacity in air quotes is creative capacity in air quotes is creative capacity in air quotes is something that's measured in a something that's measured in a something that's measured in a laboratory. So, synthesis of new ideas, laboratory. So, synthesis of new ideas, laboratory. So, synthesis of new ideas, creative solutions to a puzzle, etc. creative solutions to a puzzle, etc. creative solutions to a puzzle, etc. We're not talking about writing great We're not talking about writing great We're not talking about writing great works of music, but in a laboratory, you works of music, but in a laboratory, you works of music, but in a laboratory, you only have so many things that you can only have so many things that you can only have so many things that you can sample or measure typically in sample or measure typically in sample or measure typically in undergraduate students. So, I I'm kind undergraduate students. So, I I'm kind undergraduate students. So, I I'm kind of just, you know, tossing all of this of just, you know, tossing all of this of just, you know, tossing all of this out there as a means for people who are out there as a means for people who are out there as a means for people who are interested in improving their creativity interested in improving their creativity interested in improving their creativity or exploring creativity to not just or exploring creativity to not just or exploring creativity to not just wait. Not just wait, have a mode of
2:17wait. Not just wait, have a mode of wait. Not just wait, have a mode of capture. Write things down or maybe jot capture. Write things down or maybe jot capture. Write things down or maybe jot them into your phone or voice memos. them into your phone or voice memos. them into your phone or voice memos. Maybe do open monitoring meditation. Maybe do open monitoring meditation. Maybe do open monitoring meditation. Maybe sit and force yourself to think in Maybe sit and force yourself to think in Maybe sit and force yourself to think in complete sentences with your body still. complete sentences with your body still. complete sentences with your body still. Maybe go for a long run or walk where Maybe go for a long run or walk where Maybe go for a long run or walk where you're bored. You're not listening to you're bored. You're not listening to you're bored. You're not listening to anything and see what comes up. I think anything and see what comes up. I think anything and see what comes up. I think everyone does this differently. But if everyone does this differently. But if everyone does this differently. But if you're able to access the state of mind, you're able to access the state of mind, you're able to access the state of mind, it can be immensely powerful because it can be immensely powerful because it can be immensely powerful because great ideas come to you. great ideas come to you. great ideas come to you. >> So movement was the last one in the >> So movement was the last one in the >> So movement was the last one in the dopamine. We were doing this nice dopamine. We were doing this nice dopamine. We were doing this nice dopamine like tree of things. Sleep. We dopamine like tree of things. Sleep. We dopamine like tree of things. Sleep. We did the um NSDR non-sleep deep breast. did the um NSDR non-sleep deep breast. did the um NSDR non-sleep deep breast. >> We did the hydration, exercise, >> We did the hydration, exercise, >> We did the hydration, exercise, sunlight. M if I'm trying to use what I sunlight. M if I'm trying to use what I sunlight. M if I'm trying to use what I understand now about dopamine to be understand now about dopamine to be understand now about dopamine to be productive in my relationships but also productive in my relationships but also productive in my relationships but also in my professional life is there in my professional life is there in my professional life is there anything else I need to be think we also anything else I need to be think we also anything else I need to be think we also did food did food did food >> and you can spike your dopamine and >> and you can spike your dopamine and >> and you can spike your dopamine and epinephrine and norepinephrine the epinephrine and norepinephrine the epinephrine and norepinephrine the so-cal catakolamines with a cold shower so-cal catakolamines with a cold shower so-cal catakolamines with a cold shower or cold plunge it is a state shifting or cold plunge it is a state shifting or cold plunge it is a state shifting tool that's really what it is I like to tool that's really what it is I like to tool that's really what it is I like to do sauna and cold at least once a week
2:18do sauna and cold at least once a week do sauna and cold at least once a week most people don't have access to a sauna most people don't have access to a sauna most people don't have access to a sauna if you don't have access to a sauna no if you don't have access to a sauna no if you don't have access to a sauna no big deal you can take hot bath. Just big deal you can take hot bath. Just big deal you can take hot bath. Just don't scald yourself. And if you're a don't scald yourself. And if you're a don't scald yourself. And if you're a male male male >> saers now because of the um someone told >> saers now because of the um someone told >> saers now because of the um someone told me that it might fry my sperm. me that it might fry my sperm. me that it might fry my sperm. >> Oh yeah, let's have a very frank >> Oh yeah, let's have a very frank >> Oh yeah, let's have a very frank discussion about that. It it won't fry discussion about that. It it won't fry discussion about that. It it won't fry them, but it will definitely um deplete them, but it will definitely um deplete them, but it will definitely um deplete the number of viable sperm. So if you the number of viable sperm. So if you the number of viable sperm. So if you are interested in conceiving, just are interested in conceiving, just are interested in conceiving, just understand that the cycle for genesis of understand that the cycle for genesis of understand that the cycle for genesis of sperm, spermatogenesis, takes place over sperm, spermatogenesis, takes place over sperm, spermatogenesis, takes place over the course of somewhere between 60 and the course of somewhere between 60 and the course of somewhere between 60 and 90 days, depending on exactly what part 90 days, depending on exactly what part 90 days, depending on exactly what part of the cycle you're referring to. Heat of the cycle you're referring to. Heat of the cycle you're referring to. Heat is not good for sperm. This is why is not good for sperm. This is why is not good for sperm. This is why testicles exist outside the body, why testicles exist outside the body, why testicles exist outside the body, why the scrotum can both contract and and the scrotum can both contract and and the scrotum can both contract and and sort of relax. sort of relax. sort of relax. And if you go into a sauna or a hot tub And if you go into a sauna or a hot tub And if you go into a sauna or a hot tub or a hot bath, you will lower the number or a hot bath, you will lower the number or a hot bath, you will lower the number of viable sperm that you produce in over of viable sperm that you produce in over of viable sperm that you produce in over the course of the next 60 to 90 days. the course of the next 60 to 90 days. the course of the next 60 to 90 days. So, if you're trying to conceive, you So, if you're trying to conceive, you So, if you're trying to conceive, you probably want to avoid those probably want to avoid those probably want to avoid those circumstances. Unless, of course, you go
2:19circumstances. Unless, of course, you go circumstances. Unless, of course, you go into a sauna and you take a cold pack into a sauna and you take a cold pack into a sauna and you take a cold pack with some insulation, please, and you with some insulation, please, and you with some insulation, please, and you put it in your groin. Um, that's a put it in your groin. Um, that's a put it in your groin. Um, that's a straightforward way to maintain coolness straightforward way to maintain coolness straightforward way to maintain coolness of the testicles and maintain sperm of the testicles and maintain sperm of the testicles and maintain sperm while in the sauna. It's not going to while in the sauna. It's not going to while in the sauna. It's not going to permanently deplete your sperm, but it permanently deplete your sperm, but it permanently deplete your sperm, but it will dramatically lower sperm, viable will dramatically lower sperm, viable will dramatically lower sperm, viable sperm count, forward motile sperm. We sperm count, forward motile sperm. We sperm count, forward motile sperm. We know this also from people that sit too know this also from people that sit too know this also from people that sit too much or people that have larger legs. I much or people that have larger legs. I much or people that have larger legs. I mean, these studies have actually been mean, these studies have actually been mean, these studies have actually been done. If you look at the correlation done. If you look at the correlation done. If you look at the correlation between amount of time seated, between amount of time seated, between amount of time seated, especially driving or on a hot car seat especially driving or on a hot car seat especially driving or on a hot car seat and sperm count and viability, there's and sperm count and viability, there's and sperm count and viability, there's kind of an inverse relationship there. kind of an inverse relationship there. kind of an inverse relationship there. Does that mean that you should actively Does that mean that you should actively Does that mean that you should actively cool your testicles or there's a whole cool your testicles or there's a whole cool your testicles or there's a whole culture of this on the internet. There culture of this on the internet. There culture of this on the internet. There are products that people can buy. I are products that people can buy. I are products that people can buy. I think they're what are they called? think they're what are they called? think they're what are they called? Snowballs. It's like a um I think Snowballs. It's like a um I think Snowballs. It's like a um I think they're called um you know, which is they're called um you know, which is they're called um you know, which is like cold uh underwear or something. I like cold uh underwear or something. I like cold uh underwear or something. I think that's getting a little bit um think that's getting a little bit um think that's getting a little bit um excessive. Um however there's a kind of excessive. Um however there's a kind of excessive. Um however there's a kind of basic understanding that heat isn't good
2:20basic understanding that heat isn't good basic understanding that heat isn't good excessive heat isn't good for sperm and excessive heat isn't good for sperm and excessive heat isn't good for sperm and the whole rationale be behind cold the whole rationale be behind cold the whole rationale be behind cold plunges for sake of testosterone and plunges for sake of testosterone and plunges for sake of testosterone and sperm probably can only be substantiated sperm probably can only be substantiated sperm probably can only be substantiated by the fact that if you get into a cold by the fact that if you get into a cold by the fact that if you get into a cold bath or cold shower and then you warm up bath or cold shower and then you warm up bath or cold shower and then you warm up you vasoc constrict so you reduce the you vasoc constrict so you reduce the you vasoc constrict so you reduce the blood flow to the area and then you're blood flow to the area and then you're blood flow to the area and then you're going to allow much more blood flow into going to allow much more blood flow into going to allow much more blood flow into that area after they warm up again. But that area after they warm up again. But that area after they warm up again. But again, heat is bad for the testicles. again, heat is bad for the testicles. again, heat is bad for the testicles. So, if you're not trying to conceive, no So, if you're not trying to conceive, no So, if you're not trying to conceive, no big deal. Or you could bring an ice pack big deal. Or you could bring an ice pack big deal. Or you could bring an ice pack in there. I will also say, and this is a in there. I will also say, and this is a in there. I will also say, and this is a very important public service very important public service very important public service announcement, don't think that you can announcement, don't think that you can announcement, don't think that you can use hot tub or hot bath or sauna as use hot tub or hot bath or sauna as use hot tub or hot bath or sauna as contraception. [laughter] I don't know contraception. [laughter] I don't know contraception. [laughter] I don't know that it's that effective. And um I can that it's that effective. And um I can that it's that effective. And um I can assure you without having looked at the assure you without having looked at the assure you without having looked at the data that uh many uh child has been data that uh many uh child has been data that uh many uh child has been conceived despite the fact that people conceived despite the fact that people conceived despite the fact that people were in a hot tub or bath or sauna. were in a hot tub or bath or sauna. were in a hot tub or bath or sauna. Whether or not they were actually Whether or not they were actually Whether or not they were actually conceived in the bathtub, hot tub or conceived in the bathtub, hot tub or conceived in the bathtub, hot tub or sauna is obviously none of my business. sauna is obviously none of my business. sauna is obviously none of my business. >> Perfect Ted has quite frankly taken the
2:21>> Perfect Ted has quite frankly taken the >> Perfect Ted has quite frankly taken the nation by storm. a small green energy nation by storm. a small green energy nation by storm. a small green energy drink that you've probably seen popping drink that you've probably seen popping drink that you've probably seen popping up to a Tesco or to a Waitro, they've up to a Tesco or to a Waitro, they've up to a Tesco or to a Waitro, they've grown by almost 10,000% grown by almost 10,000% grown by almost 10,000% in a very short period of time because in a very short period of time because in a very short period of time because people are sick and tired of the typical people are sick and tired of the typical people are sick and tired of the typical unhealthy energy drinks and they've been unhealthy energy drinks and they've been unhealthy energy drinks and they've been looking for an alternative. Perfect TED looking for an alternative. Perfect TED looking for an alternative. Perfect TED is the drink that I drink as I'm sat is the drink that I drink as I'm sat is the drink that I drink as I'm sat here doing the podcast because it gives here doing the podcast because it gives here doing the podcast because it gives me increased focus. It doesn't give me me increased focus. It doesn't give me me increased focus. It doesn't give me crashes, which sometimes might happen if crashes, which sometimes might happen if crashes, which sometimes might happen if I'm having a three, four, five, six hour I'm having a three, four, five, six hour I'm having a three, four, five, six hour conversation with someone on the conversation with someone on the conversation with someone on the podcast. And it tastes amazing. It's podcast. And it tastes amazing. It's podcast. And it tastes amazing. It's exactly what I've been looking for in exactly what I've been looking for in exactly what I've been looking for in terms of energy. That's why I'm an terms of energy. That's why I'm an terms of energy. That's why I'm an investor, and that's why they sponsor investor, and that's why they sponsor investor, and that's why they sponsor this podcast. And for a limited time, this podcast. And for a limited time, this podcast. And for a limited time, Perfect Ted have given Diary of a SEO Perfect Ted have given Diary of a SEO Perfect Ted have given Diary of a SEO listeners only a huge 40% off if you use listeners only a huge 40% off if you use listeners only a huge 40% off if you use the code diary 40 at checkout. Don't the code diary 40 at checkout. Don't the code diary 40 at checkout. Don't tell anybody about this. And you can tell anybody about this. And you can tell anybody about this. And you can only get this online for a limited time, only get this online for a limited time, only get this online for a limited time, so make sure you don't miss out. so make sure you don't miss out. so make sure you don't miss out. >> The other thing that I I'm curious about
2:22>> The other thing that I I'm curious about >> The other thing that I I'm curious about as it relates to dopamine is as it relates to dopamine is as it relates to dopamine is pornography. pornography. pornography. I think pornography has become more I think pornography has become more I think pornography has become more readily available now than ever before. readily available now than ever before. readily available now than ever before. I can go on any social media platform, I can go on any social media platform, I can go on any social media platform, especially X, and I scroll down for long especially X, and I scroll down for long especially X, and I scroll down for long enough, I will be exposed to enough, I will be exposed to enough, I will be exposed to pornography, whether I chose to go and pornography, whether I chose to go and pornography, whether I chose to go and seek it out or not. seek it out or not. seek it out or not. >> Yeah, it'll find you. >> Yeah, it'll find you. >> Yeah, it'll find you. >> It'll find you on pretty much every >> It'll find you on pretty much every >> It'll find you on pretty much every application. Um, so it's especially application. Um, so it's especially application. Um, so it's especially concerning for young people who are in concerning for young people who are in concerning for young people who are in that those formative years. But what is that those formative years. But what is that those formative years. But what is your view on the on pornography, your view on the on pornography, your view on the on pornography, dopamine, and the overall social harm of dopamine, and the overall social harm of dopamine, and the overall social harm of pornography? pornography? pornography? >> Yeah, so this is a controversial topic >> Yeah, so this is a controversial topic >> Yeah, so this is a controversial topic because obviously people have different because obviously people have different because obviously people have different opinions on limiting personal freedom, opinions on limiting personal freedom, opinions on limiting personal freedom, right? Um, both expression and right? Um, both expression and right? Um, both expression and consumption of of uh pornography, right? consumption of of uh pornography, right? consumption of of uh pornography, right? Um, but moving that aside and just Um, but moving that aside and just Um, but moving that aside and just focusing on things through the lens of focusing on things through the lens of focusing on things through the lens of biology and the dopamine system, we know biology and the dopamine system, we know biology and the dopamine system, we know that that that the more stimulating, the more intense the more stimulating, the more intense the more stimulating, the more intense an experience, the greater the increase an experience, the greater the increase an experience, the greater the increase in dopamine. I mean, it's very clear in dopamine. I mean, it's very clear in dopamine. I mean, it's very clear based on neuroiming studies that, you
2:23based on neuroiming studies that, you based on neuroiming studies that, you know, more empetamine causes bigger know, more empetamine causes bigger know, more empetamine causes bigger increases in dopamine than less increases in dopamine than less increases in dopamine than less empetamine. More cocaine causes bigger empetamine. More cocaine causes bigger empetamine. More cocaine causes bigger increases in dopamine than less cocaine. increases in dopamine than less cocaine. increases in dopamine than less cocaine. Caffeine can cause an increase in Caffeine can cause an increase in Caffeine can cause an increase in dopamine, but it's not nearly the kind dopamine, but it's not nearly the kind dopamine, but it's not nearly the kind of increase the peak that is that you of increase the peak that is that you of increase the peak that is that you observe with amphetamine or cocaine. All observe with amphetamine or cocaine. All observe with amphetamine or cocaine. All right? So, we can't just say stimulants right? So, we can't just say stimulants right? So, we can't just say stimulants and we can't just say sex. We can't just and we can't just say sex. We can't just and we can't just say sex. We can't just say pornography. We have to ask within say pornography. We have to ask within say pornography. We have to ask within the domain of pornography because we the domain of pornography because we the domain of pornography because we know that sexual activity and in know that sexual activity and in know that sexual activity and in particular anticipation of sexual particular anticipation of sexual particular anticipation of sexual activity. Okay, this is important. activity. Okay, this is important. activity. Okay, this is important. Anticipation of sexual activity raises Anticipation of sexual activity raises Anticipation of sexual activity raises dopamine levels. Then the question is dopamine levels. Then the question is dopamine levels. Then the question is what is the range of things and the what is the range of things and the what is the range of things and the range of dopamine increase. Now while range of dopamine increase. Now while range of dopamine increase. Now while there hasn't been a very systematic there hasn't been a very systematic there hasn't been a very systematic exploration of this we know that you exploration of this we know that you exploration of this we know that you know a lot of pornography is extreme know a lot of pornography is extreme know a lot of pornography is extreme right it involves more than two people. right it involves more than two people. right it involves more than two people. It can involve all sorts of dynamics It can involve all sorts of dynamics It can involve all sorts of dynamics that for some people are going to be that for some people are going to be that for some people are going to be hyper stimulatory. Okay. So this is very
2:24hyper stimulatory. Okay. So this is very hyper stimulatory. Okay. So this is very different than I guess what people would different than I guess what people would different than I guess what people would call soft pornography quote unquote call soft pornography quote unquote call soft pornography quote unquote right and here these are subjective right and here these are subjective right and here these are subjective labels. labels. labels. >> So let's just pick a hypothetical >> So let's just pick a hypothetical >> So let's just pick a hypothetical scenario. A person is viewing a lot of scenario. A person is viewing a lot of scenario. A person is viewing a lot of let's say highintensity high dopamine let's say highintensity high dopamine let's say highintensity high dopamine for them releasing pornography. Okay for for them releasing pornography. Okay for for them releasing pornography. Okay for some people that might be pornography of some people that might be pornography of some people that might be pornography of genre A. For other people it might be genre A. For other people it might be genre A. For other people it might be pornography of genre B. For somebody who pornography of genre B. For somebody who pornography of genre B. For somebody who never looks at pornography, maybe it's never looks at pornography, maybe it's never looks at pornography, maybe it's quite mild, quite mild, quite mild, but for them, it's actually quite but for them, it's actually quite but for them, it's actually quite intense in terms of the amount of intense in terms of the amount of intense in terms of the amount of dopamine it releases. Now, what do we dopamine it releases. Now, what do we dopamine it releases. Now, what do we know based on dopamine dynamics? know based on dopamine dynamics? know based on dopamine dynamics? Remember, dopamine is the universal Remember, dopamine is the universal Remember, dopamine is the universal currency of motivation, seeking, and currency of motivation, seeking, and currency of motivation, seeking, and reward. It's not like there's dopamine reward. It's not like there's dopamine reward. It's not like there's dopamine unique to pornography versus dopamine unique to pornography versus dopamine unique to pornography versus dopamine unique to food. It's just a matter of unique to food. It's just a matter of unique to food. It's just a matter of levels and duration. levels and duration. levels and duration. If somebody is consuming, let's call it If somebody is consuming, let's call it If somebody is consuming, let's call it very intense, aka high dopamine very intense, aka high dopamine very intense, aka high dopamine releasing pornography on a regular
2:25releasing pornography on a regular releasing pornography on a regular basis, what do we know? That peak in basis, what do we know? That peak in basis, what do we know? That peak in dopamine will start to lessen. It'll be dopamine will start to lessen. It'll be dopamine will start to lessen. It'll be lower and lower and the trough in lower and lower and the trough in lower and lower and the trough in dopamine after they view that dopamine after they view that dopamine after they view that pornography will be deeper trough and pornography will be deeper trough and pornography will be deeper trough and longer trough. Meaning they are very longer trough. Meaning they are very longer trough. Meaning they are very likely, we don't know for sure, but very likely, we don't know for sure, but very likely, we don't know for sure, but very likely to seek out more and more intense likely to seek out more and more intense likely to seek out more and more intense experiences to try and just get them experiences to try and just get them experiences to try and just get them back to baseline. Pretty soon, the back to baseline. Pretty soon, the back to baseline. Pretty soon, the pornography that at one time was very pornography that at one time was very pornography that at one time was very stimulating for them is no longer stimulating for them is no longer stimulating for them is no longer stimulating. Now, the concern here is stimulating. Now, the concern here is stimulating. Now, the concern here is that, and let's just be frank, we're not that, and let's just be frank, we're not that, and let's just be frank, we're not just talking about viewing pornography. just talking about viewing pornography. just talking about viewing pornography. We also have to ask ourselves, what are We also have to ask ourselves, what are We also have to ask ourselves, what are people doing as they view this people doing as they view this people doing as they view this pornography? pornography? This is a conversation that should be This is a conversation that should be This is a conversation that should be had, but I have to do it in a way where had, but I have to do it in a way where had, but I have to do it in a way where I'm not imparting moral judgment on any I'm not imparting moral judgment on any I'm not imparting moral judgment on any of it. I'm not saying people should of it. I'm not saying people should of it. I'm not saying people should masturbate or not masturbate. That's masturbate or not masturbate. That's masturbate or not masturbate. That's none of my business, frankly. This is none of my business, frankly. This is none of my business, frankly. This is highly individual. It relates to all highly individual. It relates to all highly individual. It relates to all sorts of things in terms of values, etc. sorts of things in terms of values, etc. sorts of things in terms of values, etc. The point is however that we know that The point is however that we know that The point is however that we know that orgasm is a dopamine related event and
2:26orgasm is a dopamine related event and orgasm is a dopamine related event and post orgasm there's a increase in a post orgasm there's a increase in a post orgasm there's a increase in a molecule called prolactin molecule called prolactin molecule called prolactin in the brain. Prolactin actually in part in the brain. Prolactin actually in part in the brain. Prolactin actually in part sets the refractory period in which sets the refractory period in which sets the refractory period in which there can't be further erection in males there can't be further erection in males there can't be further erection in males and orgasm in males. Okay. And in and orgasm in males. Okay. And in and orgasm in males. Okay. And in females it really depends. I mean females it really depends. I mean females it really depends. I mean there's this whole world I mean Dr. there's this whole world I mean Dr. there's this whole world I mean Dr. Reena Malik is far more skilled to Reena Malik is far more skilled to Reena Malik is far more skilled to discuss this than I am about you know discuss this than I am about you know discuss this than I am about you know different types of orgasms in women etc. different types of orgasms in women etc. different types of orgasms in women etc. The extent to which multiple orgasms can The extent to which multiple orgasms can The extent to which multiple orgasms can occur in some individuals not others. I occur in some individuals not others. I occur in some individuals not others. I think the general belief is that it's think the general belief is that it's think the general belief is that it's possible in most anybody um including possible in most anybody um including possible in most anybody um including males and females right but that it's males and females right but that it's males and females right but that it's more typical in females than in males more typical in females than in males more typical in females than in males this sort of thing. Here's the point. this sort of thing. Here's the point. this sort of thing. Here's the point. Dopamine and prolactin generally are in Dopamine and prolactin generally are in Dopamine and prolactin generally are in a kind of a pushpull or seessaw a kind of a pushpull or seessaw a kind of a pushpull or seessaw relationship whereby relationship whereby relationship whereby very stimulatory high dopamine releasing very stimulatory high dopamine releasing very stimulatory high dopamine releasing activities and pornography and things activities and pornography and things activities and pornography and things like that increased dopamine but like that increased dopamine but like that increased dopamine but repeated exposure to that regardless of repeated exposure to that regardless of
2:27repeated exposure to that regardless of the activities occurring during that the activities occurring during that the activities occurring during that time lead to big long troughs in time lead to big long troughs in time lead to big long troughs in dopamine such that more stimulation is dopamine such that more stimulation is dopamine such that more stimulation is required just to get any sense of required just to get any sense of required just to get any sense of arousal. We also know that prolactin arousal. We also know that prolactin arousal. We also know that prolactin when that is increased tends to create a when that is increased tends to create a when that is increased tends to create a kind of subdued lack of dopamine I'm kind of subdued lack of dopamine I'm kind of subdued lack of dopamine I'm using these terms broadly um kind of using these terms broadly um kind of using these terms broadly um kind of aotivated non-motivated state there are aotivated non-motivated state there are aotivated non-motivated state there are reasons for this biologically right reasons for this biologically right reasons for this biologically right after ejaculation the idea is that after ejaculation the idea is that after ejaculation the idea is that animals won't then or humans won't then animals won't then or humans won't then animals won't then or humans won't then copulate again and again and again at copulate again and again and again at copulate again and again and again at least not for some period of time the least not for some period of time the least not for some period of time the duration of the refractory period is duration of the refractory period is duration of the refractory period is highly individual it's determined by age highly individual it's determined by age highly individual it's determined by age by species species there's the so-called by species species there's the so-called by species species there's the so-called coolage effect. Are you familiar with coolage effect. Are you familiar with coolage effect. Are you familiar with the coolage effect? the coolage effect? the coolage effect? >> I'm familiar with postnut clarity. >> I'm familiar with postnut clarity. >> I'm familiar with postnut clarity. >> Okay. Um [laughter] >> Okay. Um [laughter] >> Okay. Um [laughter] slightly different. There's an anecdote slightly different. There's an anecdote slightly different. There's an anecdote that um at least to my understanding is that um at least to my understanding is that um at least to my understanding is true. At least the coolage effect is a true. At least the coolage effect is a true. At least the coolage effect is a known thing in neurendocrinology whereby known thing in neurendocrinology whereby known thing in neurendocrinology whereby President Calvin Kulage reportedly was President Calvin Kulage reportedly was President Calvin Kulage reportedly was visiting a chicken farm with his wife.
2:28visiting a chicken farm with his wife. visiting a chicken farm with his wife. They were touring the farm and there They were touring the farm and there They were touring the farm and there were a lot of hens and a lot of chickens were a lot of hens and a lot of chickens were a lot of hens and a lot of chickens generally. And the dosent who was generally. And the dosent who was generally. And the dosent who was showing them around said, you know, this showing them around said, you know, this showing them around said, you know, this rooster here pointed to a rooster rooster here pointed to a rooster rooster here pointed to a rooster copulates more than 300 times per day. copulates more than 300 times per day. copulates more than 300 times per day. It's remarkable. And Mrs. Kulage turns It's remarkable. And Mrs. Kulage turns It's remarkable. And Mrs. Kulage turns to President Kulage and says, "You hear to President Kulage and says, "You hear to President Kulage and says, "You hear that? 300 times per day." She's that? 300 times per day." She's that? 300 times per day." She's obviously quite impressed and letting obviously quite impressed and letting obviously quite impressed and letting him know that. And Koolage, that is him know that. And Koolage, that is him know that. And Koolage, that is President Kulage, says, "Ah, but let me President Kulage, says, "Ah, but let me President Kulage, says, "Ah, but let me ask you a question. Same hen or ask you a question. Same hen or ask you a question. Same hen or different hens?" And the dosent says, different hens?" And the dosent says, different hens?" And the dosent says, "Different hens." Now, here's the "Different hens." Now, here's the "Different hens." Now, here's the phenomenon, the Koolage effect. It phenomenon, the Koolage effect. It phenomenon, the Koolage effect. It exists in rodents. It exists in exists in rodents. It exists in exists in rodents. It exists in chickens. It exists in dogs. chickens. It exists in dogs. chickens. It exists in dogs. People can speculate whether or not it People can speculate whether or not it People can speculate whether or not it exists in humans whereby if an animal exists in humans whereby if an animal exists in humans whereby if an animal copulates, then the male is in a copulates, then the male is in a copulates, then the male is in a refractory period lasting anywhere from refractory period lasting anywhere from refractory period lasting anywhere from minutes to hours to days depending on minutes to hours to days depending on minutes to hours to days depending on age, species, etc. During that age, species, etc. During that age, species, etc. During that refractory period, they can't achieve
2:29refractory period, they can't achieve refractory period, they can't achieve erection and or ejaculate again. But if erection and or ejaculate again. But if erection and or ejaculate again. But if you replace the mate with a novel mate, you replace the mate with a novel mate, you replace the mate with a novel mate, the refractory period is shortened the refractory period is shortened the refractory period is shortened substantially. substantially. substantially. Why? The answer is very clear based on Why? The answer is very clear based on Why? The answer is very clear based on actual measurements of brain dopamine. actual measurements of brain dopamine. actual measurements of brain dopamine. Why? Because dopamine is also associated Why? Because dopamine is also associated Why? Because dopamine is also associated with novelty. Now the refractory period with novelty. Now the refractory period with novelty. Now the refractory period probably serves an important probably serves an important probably serves an important evolutionary role whereby it improves evolutionary role whereby it improves evolutionary role whereby it improves pair bonding. So that post post pair bonding. So that post post pair bonding. So that post post ejaculation, post orgasm. Okay, here I'm ejaculation, post orgasm. Okay, here I'm ejaculation, post orgasm. Okay, here I'm interchangeably talking about these for interchangeably talking about these for interchangeably talking about these for males and females. You know, anytime you males and females. You know, anytime you males and females. You know, anytime you hear ejaculation, then people think hear ejaculation, then people think hear ejaculation, then people think males, etc. Post orgasm, postcoidal males, etc. Post orgasm, postcoidal males, etc. Post orgasm, postcoidal bliss, pair bonding, the sharing of bliss, pair bonding, the sharing of bliss, pair bonding, the sharing of pherommones, the sharing of stories, you pherommones, the sharing of stories, you pherommones, the sharing of stories, you know, the sharing of affection, right? know, the sharing of affection, right? know, the sharing of affection, right? The sharing of a bed to sleep in. These The sharing of a bed to sleep in. These The sharing of a bed to sleep in. These things are intimately involved in pair things are intimately involved in pair things are intimately involved in pair bonding. So, I'm not saying that the bonding. So, I'm not saying that the bonding. So, I'm not saying that the refractory period is a bad thing. What refractory period is a bad thing. What refractory period is a bad thing. What I'm saying is that dopamine can overcome I'm saying is that dopamine can overcome I'm saying is that dopamine can overcome the refractory period, but the the refractory period, but the the refractory period, but the refractory period itself is largely due refractory period itself is largely due
2:30refractory period itself is largely due to an increase in prolactin that to an increase in prolactin that to an increase in prolactin that suppresses dopamine. So, let's go back suppresses dopamine. So, let's go back suppresses dopamine. So, let's go back all the way to this question about all the way to this question about all the way to this question about pornography. pornography. What's the typical scenario? While this What's the typical scenario? While this What's the typical scenario? While this is not something I choose to think about is not something I choose to think about is not something I choose to think about a lot, you're talking about some a lot, you're talking about some a lot, you're talking about some individual in their apartment or home individual in their apartment or home individual in their apartment or home watching intense dopamine stimulating watching intense dopamine stimulating watching intense dopamine stimulating pornography pornography pornography in which they presumably are aroused or in which they presumably are aroused or in which they presumably are aroused or not aroused. They do or don't do not aroused. They do or don't do not aroused. They do or don't do whatever they choose to do, but that whatever they choose to do, but that whatever they choose to do, but that over time has less and less of an effect over time has less and less of an effect over time has less and less of an effect in getting them aroused. And keep in in getting them aroused. And keep in in getting them aroused. And keep in mind that none of this necessarily mind that none of this necessarily mind that none of this necessarily translates to real world human safe translates to real world human safe translates to real world human safe interactions between individuals, right? interactions between individuals, right? interactions between individuals, right? Pornography is very very different than Pornography is very very different than Pornography is very very different than real world sexual interactions. So there real world sexual interactions. So there real world sexual interactions. So there is a phenomenon that is starting to is a phenomenon that is starting to is a phenomenon that is starting to surface on the internet. What do I mean surface on the internet. What do I mean surface on the internet. What do I mean by that? I mean there are a lot of by that? I mean there are a lot of by that? I mean there are a lot of questions posed in podcast forums in questions posed in podcast forums in questions posed in podcast forums in meaning in the comment section on meaning in the comment section on meaning in the comment section on YouTube about is pornography dangerous, YouTube about is pornography dangerous, YouTube about is pornography dangerous, is it bad, etc. I think the thing that
2:31is it bad, etc. I think the thing that is it bad, etc. I think the thing that we can say for sure is that any we can say for sure is that any we can say for sure is that any behavior, any substance that stimulates behavior, any substance that stimulates behavior, any substance that stimulates a lot of dopamine and that is easily a lot of dopamine and that is easily a lot of dopamine and that is easily accessed without effort is potentially accessed without effort is potentially accessed without effort is potentially problematic. problematic. problematic. Again, big increases in dopamine that Again, big increases in dopamine that Again, big increases in dopamine that are not preceded by effort are are not preceded by effort are are not preceded by effort are potentially problematic. Let's think potentially problematic. Let's think potentially problematic. Let's think about methamphetamine. Huge increase in about methamphetamine. Huge increase in about methamphetamine. Huge increase in dopamine. Was the brain designed to dopamine. Was the brain designed to dopamine. Was the brain designed to release dopamine in response to release dopamine in response to release dopamine in response to empetamine? No. The brain was designed empetamine? No. The brain was designed empetamine? No. The brain was designed to dole out dopamine, give out dopamine to dole out dopamine, give out dopamine to dole out dopamine, give out dopamine at a level and duration that is at a level and duration that is at a level and duration that is commensurate with the pursuit of some commensurate with the pursuit of some commensurate with the pursuit of some evolutionarily adaptive goal. evolutionarily adaptive goal. evolutionarily adaptive goal. Methamphetamine bypasses that, gives you Methamphetamine bypasses that, gives you Methamphetamine bypasses that, gives you a huge surge in dopamine, which is why a huge surge in dopamine, which is why a huge surge in dopamine, which is why people feel miserable afterwards. They people feel miserable afterwards. They people feel miserable afterwards. They crave more just to get back to a lower crave more just to get back to a lower crave more just to get back to a lower level of dopamine. Same can be said of level of dopamine. Same can be said of level of dopamine. Same can be said of gambling in in particular in people that gambling in in particular in people that gambling in in particular in people that are very prone to gambling addiction. are very prone to gambling addiction. are very prone to gambling addiction. Certainly can be said for food for Certainly can be said for food for Certainly can be said for food for certain people that are very prone to certain people that are very prone to certain people that are very prone to food addiction. certainly can be true food addiction. certainly can be true food addiction. certainly can be true for anything. But when it comes to
2:32for anything. But when it comes to for anything. But when it comes to pornography, because of the, as you pornography, because of the, as you pornography, because of the, as you pointed out, the ready availability of pointed out, the ready availability of pointed out, the ready availability of pornography in particular, pornography in particular, pornography in particular, let's just call it intense pornography let's just call it intense pornography let's just call it intense pornography or that includes a lot of different or that includes a lot of different or that includes a lot of different other stimulatory elements, multiple other stimulatory elements, multiple other stimulatory elements, multiple people, high, you know, a lot of people, high, you know, a lot of people, high, you know, a lot of scenarios that um can be accessed on the scenarios that um can be accessed on the scenarios that um can be accessed on the internet, right? certainly not things internet, right? certainly not things internet, right? certainly not things I'm suggesting people go look at, but I'm suggesting people go look at, but I'm suggesting people go look at, but that is potentially problematic because that is potentially problematic because that is potentially problematic because it raises the threshold of the person it raises the threshold of the person it raises the threshold of the person that's viewing this as what is arousing that's viewing this as what is arousing that's viewing this as what is arousing to the point where pretty soon they need to the point where pretty soon they need to the point where pretty soon they need those hyper stimulatory environments or those hyper stimulatory environments or those hyper stimulatory environments or stimula in the form of pornography in stimula in the form of pornography in stimula in the form of pornography in order to get aroused. And again, none of order to get aroused. And again, none of order to get aroused. And again, none of that translates into the ability to have that translates into the ability to have that translates into the ability to have conversation with partners or the conversation with partners or the conversation with partners or the ability to, you know, have discussion in ability to, you know, have discussion in ability to, you know, have discussion in real world circumstances. And of course, real world circumstances. And of course, real world circumstances. And of course, everything we're talking about could everything we're talking about could everything we're talking about could also be translated to real world also be translated to real world also be translated to real world circumstances. But the data really point circumstances. But the data really point circumstances. But the data really point to the fact that younger people in to the fact that younger people in to the fact that younger people in particular are consuming more particular are consuming more particular are consuming more pornography. So we're talking about pornography. So we're talking about pornography. So we're talking about bigger dopamine increases with less.
2:33bigger dopamine increases with less. bigger dopamine increases with less. When I say effort, what I mean is kind When I say effort, what I mean is kind When I say effort, what I mean is kind of the the more traditional thing was at of the the more traditional thing was at of the the more traditional thing was at least when I was growing up was you'd go least when I was growing up was you'd go least when I was growing up was you'd go out on a date or you'd meet somebody and out on a date or you'd meet somebody and out on a date or you'd meet somebody and you you know there's a series of events you you know there's a series of events you you know there's a series of events that would happen prior to uh physical that would happen prior to uh physical that would happen prior to uh physical interactions, right? So this is interactions, right? So this is interactions, right? So this is potentially serious and problematic. potentially serious and problematic. potentially serious and problematic. There's a lot of judgment and There's a lot of judgment and There's a lot of judgment and understandably so because people arrive understandably so because people arrive understandably so because people arrive to this sort of discussion with a lot of to this sort of discussion with a lot of to this sort of discussion with a lot of different backgrounds in terms of different backgrounds in terms of different backgrounds in terms of religious backgrounds and what they religious backgrounds and what they religious backgrounds and what they think is okay or not okay. What I can think is okay or not okay. What I can think is okay or not okay. What I can tell you for sure is that I hear from a tell you for sure is that I hear from a tell you for sure is that I hear from a lot of young males about their lot of young males about their lot of young males about their challenges with porn addiction and they challenges with porn addiction and they challenges with porn addiction and they want to know how to get over porn want to know how to get over porn want to know how to get over porn addiction. And the answer there is addiction. And the answer there is addiction. And the answer there is difficult but very simple which is difficult but very simple which is difficult but very simple which is abstinence. It's abstinence. It's taking abstinence. It's abstinence. It's taking abstinence. It's abstinence. It's taking a period of abstinence from pornography. a period of abstinence from pornography. a period of abstinence from pornography. Maybe forever, maybe reducing the Maybe forever, maybe reducing the Maybe forever, maybe reducing the amount. This is where it gets very amount. This is where it gets very amount. This is where it gets very tricky, very subjective, and it's almost tricky, very subjective, and it's almost tricky, very subjective, and it's almost impossible to kind of have the impossible to kind of have the impossible to kind of have the discussion without getting into some discussion without getting into some discussion without getting into some murky territory. Yeah.
2:34murky territory. Yeah. murky territory. Yeah. >> Um, but it's a real issue. And I know >> Um, but it's a real issue. And I know >> Um, but it's a real issue. And I know it's a real issue because I hear from it's a real issue because I hear from it's a real issue because I hear from thousands over the last few years of the thousands over the last few years of the thousands over the last few years of the podcast. I've heard from thousands of podcast. I've heard from thousands of podcast. I've heard from thousands of males that are like they were addicted males that are like they were addicted males that are like they were addicted to porn. to porn. to porn. >> How do they feel? >> How do they feel? >> How do they feel? It sounds to me as if they feel very It sounds to me as if they feel very It sounds to me as if they feel very dejected. And some of them actually have dejected. And some of them actually have dejected. And some of them actually have said they felt very um kind of misled, said they felt very um kind of misled, said they felt very um kind of misled, like almost like this thing, this like almost like this thing, this like almost like this thing, this natural stimulus for them was dangled in natural stimulus for them was dangled in natural stimulus for them was dangled in front of them. And they just gravitated front of them. And they just gravitated front of them. And they just gravitated towards it the same way that any towards it the same way that any towards it the same way that any biological organism would gravitate biological organism would gravitate biological organism would gravitate towards something that was triggering towards something that was triggering towards something that was triggering its dopamine system. And now they feel its dopamine system. And now they feel its dopamine system. And now they feel depleted and kind of stuck and they depleted and kind of stuck and they depleted and kind of stuck and they don't know what to do. And I don't don't know what to do. And I don't don't know what to do. And I don't necessarily think I'm the person to necessarily think I'm the person to necessarily think I'm the person to remedy all of this. I certainly am not. remedy all of this. I certainly am not. remedy all of this. I certainly am not. But I think there needs to be a But I think there needs to be a But I think there needs to be a conversation much in the same way that conversation much in the same way that conversation much in the same way that Jonathan height has done an amazing job Jonathan height has done an amazing job Jonathan height has done an amazing job with anxious generation of talking about with anxious generation of talking about with anxious generation of talking about some of the severe detriments to overuse some of the severe detriments to overuse some of the severe detriments to overuse of social media and social dynamics on of social media and social dynamics on of social media and social dynamics on social media in particular in young
2:35social media in particular in young social media in particular in young girls and how we're now finally girls and how we're now finally girls and how we're now finally realizing that we're in a mental health realizing that we're in a mental health realizing that we're in a mental health crisis at least in part because of some crisis at least in part because of some crisis at least in part because of some of that and we need to pay attention to of that and we need to pay attention to of that and we need to pay attention to it. I think there needs to be a it. I think there needs to be a it. I think there needs to be a discussion around pornography and some discussion around pornography and some discussion around pornography and some of the challenges it can potentially of the challenges it can potentially of the challenges it can potentially present in particular for young males present in particular for young males present in particular for young males which is not to say that girls and women which is not to say that girls and women which is not to say that girls and women aren't also looking at pornography aren't also looking at pornography aren't also looking at pornography because we know they are. The data tell because we know they are. The data tell because we know they are. The data tell us that. But us that. But us that. But it does seem to be more of a problem it does seem to be more of a problem it does seem to be more of a problem that's being vocalized by young males. that's being vocalized by young males. that's being vocalized by young males. And this of course dovetales with the And this of course dovetales with the And this of course dovetales with the whole discussion about dating behavior whole discussion about dating behavior whole discussion about dating behavior and how that's changed in dating apps and how that's changed in dating apps and how that's changed in dating apps and you know how the ready availability and you know how the ready availability and you know how the ready availability of kind of the possibility or of kind of the possibility or of kind of the possibility or anticipation of a partner is there but anticipation of a partner is there but anticipation of a partner is there but actual dating behavior and real world actual dating behavior and real world actual dating behavior and real world sexual behavior is reduced. I mean sexual behavior is reduced. I mean sexual behavior is reduced. I mean there's a lot that needs to be discussed there's a lot that needs to be discussed there's a lot that needs to be discussed and you know ideally we would have a and you know ideally we would have a and you know ideally we would have a psychiatrist a psychologist and um a psychiatrist a psychologist and um a psychiatrist a psychologist and um a kind of panel of experts to talk about kind of panel of experts to talk about kind of panel of experts to talk about this and maybe we do this together you this and maybe we do this together you this and maybe we do this together you know as a service to the world because I know as a service to the world because I know as a service to the world because I hear about this a lot you for instance
2:36hear about this a lot you for instance hear about this a lot you for instance just by way of contrast I'm not getting just by way of contrast I'm not getting just by way of contrast I'm not getting a ton of a ton of a ton of >> YouTube comments and emails from people >> YouTube comments and emails from people >> YouTube comments and emails from people saying hey you know I really struggle saying hey you know I really struggle saying hey you know I really struggle with uh you know with ribeye steak with uh you know with ribeye steak with uh you know with ribeye steak addiction or with coffee addiction or addiction or with coffee addiction or addiction or with coffee addiction or energy drink addiction maybe a little energy drink addiction maybe a little energy drink addiction maybe a little bit with energy drinks but it's not bit with energy drinks but it's not bit with energy drinks but it's not crashing lives It's not causing people crashing lives It's not causing people crashing lives It's not causing people to feel depressed, miserable about to feel depressed, miserable about to feel depressed, miserable about themselves. It's not causing people to themselves. It's not causing people to themselves. It's not causing people to have sexual dysfunction issues in real have sexual dysfunction issues in real have sexual dysfunction issues in real world interactions. I mean, this is also world interactions. I mean, this is also world interactions. I mean, this is also the concern, right, that young people the concern, right, that young people the concern, right, that young people are getting so attuned to certain are getting so attuned to certain are getting so attuned to certain dopamine dynamics related to pornography dopamine dynamics related to pornography dopamine dynamics related to pornography that they don't either get aroused or that they don't either get aroused or that they don't either get aroused or know how to handle real world intimate know how to handle real world intimate know how to handle real world intimate interactions, interactions, interactions, >> erectile dysfunction, all those kinds of >> erectile dysfunction, all those kinds of >> erectile dysfunction, all those kinds of things. For instance, things. For instance, things. For instance, >> I do I have to be honest and there's I >> I do I have to be honest and there's I >> I do I have to be honest and there's I just have to be honest because nothing just have to be honest because nothing just have to be honest because nothing else is useful, but I remember the first else is useful, but I remember the first else is useful, but I remember the first time I saw a pornographic image when I time I saw a pornographic image when I time I saw a pornographic image when I was young and it was just a picture of was young and it was just a picture of was young and it was just a picture of like someone with like a nipple out and like someone with like a nipple out and like someone with like a nipple out and it was the most arousing thing in the it was the most arousing thing in the it was the most arousing thing in the world. And obviously as I've aged, I'm world. And obviously as I've aged, I'm world. And obviously as I've aged, I'm now 31, it would take a lot for me to now 31, it would take a lot for me to now 31, it would take a lot for me to see for me to feel aroused. I certainly
2:37see for me to feel aroused. I certainly see for me to feel aroused. I certainly wouldn't get aroused at seeing like the wouldn't get aroused at seeing like the wouldn't get aroused at seeing like the thing that aroused me when I was 16 or thing that aroused me when I was 16 or thing that aroused me when I was 16 or whatever that I found, whatever that I found, whatever that I found, >> for example. in it and that as you were >> for example. in it and that as you were >> for example. in it and that as you were saying I was thinking gosh even my saying I was thinking gosh even my saying I was thinking gosh even my arousal cycle as I've gotten you know arousal cycle as I've gotten you know arousal cycle as I've gotten you know over the last 10 years has changed over the last 10 years has changed over the last 10 years has changed because of the availability of because of the availability of because of the availability of pornography but also just sex as a in pornography but also just sex as a in pornography but also just sex as a in real life has real life has real life has become more extreme as it tries to keep become more extreme as it tries to keep become more extreme as it tries to keep up with the expectations that up with the expectations that up with the expectations that pornography sets. And then I thought pornography sets. And then I thought pornography sets. And then I thought about a lot what you said about people about a lot what you said about people about a lot what you said about people messaging you thousands of them about messaging you thousands of them about messaging you thousands of them about pornography. And the unfortunate thing pornography. And the unfortunate thing pornography. And the unfortunate thing about the the abstinence advice is it about the the abstinence advice is it about the the abstinence advice is it leaves them with many of them with what leaves them with many of them with what leaves them with many of them with what alternative? alternative? alternative? >> I mean one would hope um depending on >> I mean one would hope um depending on >> I mean one would hope um depending on you know the circumstances that they you know the circumstances that they you know the circumstances that they would seek out healthy relationships. would seek out healthy relationships. would seek out healthy relationships. >> And then this goes to the social >> And then this goes to the social >> And then this goes to the social elements you described which is it's elements you described which is it's elements you described which is it's really difficult. And when we I've had really difficult. And when we I've had really difficult. And when we I've had multiple people sit here saying to me multiple people sit here saying to me multiple people sit here saying to me that it's really the top 10% of men that that it's really the top 10% of men that that it's really the top 10% of men that are having most of the sex and this are having most of the sex and this are having most of the sex and this bottom percent 50% of men haven't had bottom percent 50% of men haven't had bottom percent 50% of men haven't had sex for a year. I go, "So, you're you're sex for a year. I go, "So, you're you're sex for a year. I go, "So, you're you're going to we got to tell a 19-year-old
2:38going to we got to tell a 19-year-old going to we got to tell a 19-year-old horny young man that he's got to abstain horny young man that he's got to abstain horny young man that he's got to abstain from masturbation and pornography, and from masturbation and pornography, and from masturbation and pornography, and we might not be able to offer him an we might not be able to offer him an we might not be able to offer him an alternative for a year." alternative for a year." alternative for a year." >> Well, I'm not telling anyone. >> Well, I'm not telling anyone. >> Well, I'm not telling anyone. >> I know it's not you, but [clears throat] >> I know it's not you, but [clears throat] >> I know it's not you, but [clears throat] I'm I'm I'm >> right. Or maybe um throttle back >> right. Or maybe um throttle back >> right. Or maybe um throttle back throttle back his behavior or think throttle back his behavior or think throttle back his behavior or think about ways in which things he could do about ways in which things he could do about ways in which things he could do could lead to healthy romantic and could lead to healthy romantic and could lead to healthy romantic and sexual interactions. you know, assuming sexual interactions. you know, assuming sexual interactions. you know, assuming that, you know, he's of an age and, you that, you know, he's of an age and, you that, you know, he's of an age and, you know, the circumstances are are like for know, the circumstances are are like for know, the circumstances are are like for that. I think that it's, you know, as that. I think that it's, you know, as that. I think that it's, you know, as you can tell as I'm kind of stumbling you can tell as I'm kind of stumbling you can tell as I'm kind of stumbling here, I'm not trying to be careful. I'm here, I'm not trying to be careful. I'm here, I'm not trying to be careful. I'm trying to be as accurate as possible trying to be as accurate as possible trying to be as accurate as possible while also not stating things that I while also not stating things that I while also not stating things that I don't believe are true, like, you know, don't believe are true, like, you know, don't believe are true, like, you know, can pornography be consumed by certain can pornography be consumed by certain can pornography be consumed by certain people in a healthy way? Well, probably people in a healthy way? Well, probably people in a healthy way? Well, probably yes. Um, do a lot of people get carried yes. Um, do a lot of people get carried yes. Um, do a lot of people get carried away with it and it starts to become a away with it and it starts to become a away with it and it starts to become a detriment in their lives, maybe even an detriment in their lives, maybe even an detriment in their lives, maybe even an addiction, maybe even impede other addiction, maybe even impede other addiction, maybe even impede other aspects of romantic and workplace aspects of romantic and workplace aspects of romantic and workplace behavior.
2:39behavior. behavior. >> Yes, we hear this all the time. >> Yes, we hear this all the time. >> Yes, we hear this all the time. >> Do you know where I am now? I am at I'm >> Do you know where I am now? I am at I'm >> Do you know where I am now? I am at I'm arriving at the position that I think arriving at the position that I think arriving at the position that I think pornography is bad pornography is bad pornography is bad >> because, you know, again, I get lots of >> because, you know, again, I get lots of >> because, you know, again, I get lots of DMs and messages and the more I've DMs and messages and the more I've DMs and messages and the more I've understood about the brain and the body understood about the brain and the body understood about the brain and the body and the and dopamine, etc., I just can't and the and dopamine, etc., I just can't and the and dopamine, etc., I just can't find a net positive of pornography. I find a net positive of pornography. I find a net positive of pornography. I can't find one. Especially as it relates can't find one. Especially as it relates can't find one. Especially as it relates to my relationship with my partner. I've to my relationship with my partner. I've to my relationship with my partner. I've been with her for 5 years now. been with her for 5 years now. been with her for 5 years now. >> And I do. I think that me watching >> And I do. I think that me watching >> And I do. I think that me watching pornography, especially if I'm watching pornography, especially if I'm watching pornography, especially if I'm watching it frequently, is going to help my it frequently, is going to help my it frequently, is going to help my performance in the bedroom? Absolutely performance in the bedroom? Absolutely performance in the bedroom? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. not. Absolutely not. not. Absolutely not. >> Yeah. It's sort of um what's that old >> Yeah. It's sort of um what's that old >> Yeah. It's sort of um what's that old saying? You want to get good at saying? You want to get good at saying? You want to get good at push-ups, do push-ups. you know, push-ups, do push-ups. you know, push-ups, do push-ups. you know, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] probably the best place to get um good probably the best place to get um good probably the best place to get um good at intimate conversation and behavior is at intimate conversation and behavior is at intimate conversation and behavior is in the context of, like you said, like a in the context of, like you said, like a in the context of, like you said, like a a great relationship a great relationship a great relationship >> um [clears throat] with great >> um [clears throat] with great >> um [clears throat] with great communication, that sort of thing. I I communication, that sort of thing. I I communication, that sort of thing. I I do hear about this concern from people a do hear about this concern from people a do hear about this concern from people a lot. I think that it's hard to imagine
2:40lot. I think that it's hard to imagine lot. I think that it's hard to imagine more benefits than kind of concerns or more benefits than kind of concerns or more benefits than kind of concerns or risks when it comes to pornography, risks when it comes to pornography, risks when it comes to pornography, especially for young males. I too grew especially for young males. I too grew especially for young males. I too grew up in an era where, you know, someone up in an era where, you know, someone up in an era where, you know, someone would have knowledge of like a Playboy would have knowledge of like a Playboy would have knowledge of like a Playboy magazine or something. Typically, it was magazine or something. Typically, it was magazine or something. Typically, it was stashed someplace in town and then stashed someplace in town and then stashed someplace in town and then people would go visit it, you know. Um, people would go visit it, you know. Um, people would go visit it, you know. Um, it was like a library or it was it was it was like a library or it was it was it was like a library or it was it was sort of a like an urban library type sort of a like an urban library type sort of a like an urban library type environment where, you know, people environment where, you know, people environment where, you know, people would know, oh yeah, behind the would know, oh yeah, behind the would know, oh yeah, behind the >> It was always like a dumpster or >> It was always like a dumpster or >> It was always like a dumpster or something terrible be like behind the something terrible be like behind the something terrible be like behind the dumpster behind this building like dumpster behind this building like dumpster behind this building like there's a there's a stack of Playboys there's a there's a stack of Playboys there's a there's a stack of Playboys and like then people would go there, and like then people would go there, and like then people would go there, right? Um, but it wasn't a big part of right? Um, but it wasn't a big part of right? Um, but it wasn't a big part of my childhood. It wasn't a big part of my my childhood. It wasn't a big part of my my childhood. It wasn't a big part of my life. You know, I never found any life. You know, I never found any life. You know, I never found any pornography in my home. Like, you know, pornography in my home. Like, you know, pornography in my home. Like, you know, some kids will stumble across their some kids will stumble across their some kids will stumble across their dad's magazines. So, I never had that dad's magazines. So, I never had that dad's magazines. So, I never had that experience. Um, I think that a lot can experience. Um, I think that a lot can experience. Um, I think that a lot can be said about the requirements and be said about the requirements and be said about the requirements and importance of creating healthy dating importance of creating healthy dating importance of creating healthy dating behavior. And that's a real world behavior. And that's a real world behavior. And that's a real world experience kind of thing. And you know,
2:41experience kind of thing. And you know, experience kind of thing. And you know, this is a bigger discussion that this is a bigger discussion that this is a bigger discussion that deserves a lot of time. Um, I'm not sure deserves a lot of time. Um, I'm not sure deserves a lot of time. Um, I'm not sure we have time for it now, but you know, we have time for it now, but you know, we have time for it now, but you know, we're growing up in a world where we're growing up in a world where we're growing up in a world where so much of the input arrives through the so much of the input arrives through the so much of the input arrives through the internet. Again, a loweffort threshold, internet. Again, a loweffort threshold, internet. Again, a loweffort threshold, high dopamine scenario, right? Somebody high dopamine scenario, right? Somebody high dopamine scenario, right? Somebody wants to find something on the internet, wants to find something on the internet, wants to find something on the internet, they just Google for it and they can they just Google for it and they can they just Google for it and they can find it. Um, you know, I think you want find it. Um, you know, I think you want find it. Um, you know, I think you want particular food that's extremely tasty, particular food that's extremely tasty, particular food that's extremely tasty, you can order it to your door. Um, this you can order it to your door. Um, this you can order it to your door. Um, this is not potentially problematic. This is is not potentially problematic. This is is not potentially problematic. This is problematic. What it requires problematic. What it requires problematic. What it requires ultimately, however, I believe, is ultimately, however, I believe, is ultimately, however, I believe, is self-regulatory mechanisms. There is no self-regulatory mechanisms. There is no self-regulatory mechanisms. There is no way that legislature is going to prevent way that legislature is going to prevent way that legislature is going to prevent us from having access to things. It's us from having access to things. It's us from having access to things. It's just not because people have always just not because people have always just not because people have always found a way. You know, I mean, we you found a way. You know, I mean, we you found a way. You know, I mean, we you think about um prescription drugs that think about um prescription drugs that think about um prescription drugs that deliver dopamine without much effort. deliver dopamine without much effort. deliver dopamine without much effort. You know, even if people don't have a You know, even if people don't have a You know, even if people don't have a prescription, I think the data are
2:42prescription, I think the data are prescription, I think the data are something like 80% of college students something like 80% of college students something like 80% of college students have taken prescription stimulants have taken prescription stimulants have taken prescription stimulants without a prescription. I mean, when I without a prescription. I mean, when I without a prescription. I mean, when I went to college, nobody did that. went to college, nobody did that. went to college, nobody did that. Nobody. We drank coffee. Occasionally, Nobody. We drank coffee. Occasionally, Nobody. We drank coffee. Occasionally, someone would take a no- dose, like a someone would take a no- dose, like a someone would take a no- dose, like a caffeine pill or something, and that was caffeine pill or something, and that was caffeine pill or something, and that was considered extreme, and I still don't considered extreme, and I still don't considered extreme, and I still don't recommend it. Now you know there's all recommend it. Now you know there's all recommend it. Now you know there's all this consumption of pharmarmacology, this consumption of pharmarmacology, this consumption of pharmarmacology, there's consumption of porn and I think there's consumption of porn and I think there's consumption of porn and I think that successful individuals will learn that successful individuals will learn that successful individuals will learn and understand this relationship about and understand this relationship about and understand this relationship about dopamine especially their own and they dopamine especially their own and they dopamine especially their own and they will learn to regulate and they will be will learn to regulate and they will be will learn to regulate and they will be very careful about anything that spikes very careful about anything that spikes very careful about anything that spikes dopamine really high without much dopamine really high without much dopamine really high without much preceding effort and that has the preceding effort and that has the preceding effort and that has the capacity for addiction. So, I worry far capacity for addiction. So, I worry far capacity for addiction. So, I worry far less about the energy drink, the loud less about the energy drink, the loud less about the energy drink, the loud music, and the workout, far, far less, music, and the workout, far, far less, music, and the workout, far, far less, maybe not at all, than I do maybe not at all, than I do maybe not at all, than I do highintensity pornography consumed on a highintensity pornography consumed on a highintensity pornography consumed on a regular basis, people taking regular basis, people taking regular basis, people taking prescription stimulants who don't need prescription stimulants who don't need prescription stimulants who don't need them. I mean, that's a recipe for them. I mean, that's a recipe for them. I mean, that's a recipe for burnout, depression, or worse. burnout, depression, or worse. burnout, depression, or worse. >> How does this kind of dovetail into
2:43>> How does this kind of dovetail into >> How does this kind of dovetail into having meaning in your life? Because I'm having meaning in your life? Because I'm having meaning in your life? Because I'm thinking now about those young men and thinking now about those young men and thinking now about those young men and in that sort of stereotype they're maybe in that sort of stereotype they're maybe in that sort of stereotype they're maybe sat in their bedroom alone, probably sat in their bedroom alone, probably sat in their bedroom alone, probably don't have a romantic partner, maybe don't have a romantic partner, maybe don't have a romantic partner, maybe don't have a lot to be aiming at in don't have a lot to be aiming at in don't have a lot to be aiming at in their lives. And the group of people their lives. And the group of people their lives. And the group of people that fall into those gambling addiction that fall into those gambling addiction that fall into those gambling addiction behaviors or that pornography behavior behaviors or that pornography behavior behaviors or that pornography behavior oftent times, not always, but often are oftent times, not always, but often are oftent times, not always, but often are also lacking in some kind of meaning. Is also lacking in some kind of meaning. Is also lacking in some kind of meaning. Is there a like a correlation between the there a like a correlation between the there a like a correlation between the two? Are they associated? Um, and does two? Are they associated? Um, and does two? Are they associated? Um, and does one help the other? If I if I go out and one help the other? If I if I go out and one help the other? If I if I go out and start pursuing some great goal in my start pursuing some great goal in my start pursuing some great goal in my life, start a company, am I less likely life, start a company, am I less likely life, start a company, am I less likely to then be engaging in the to then be engaging in the to then be engaging in the dopamine-inducing pornography addiction? dopamine-inducing pornography addiction? dopamine-inducing pornography addiction? >> So to answer the second question first, >> So to answer the second question first, >> So to answer the second question first, I absolutely believe that when we are in I absolutely believe that when we are in I absolutely believe that when we are in pursuit of healthy goals, meaning goals pursuit of healthy goals, meaning goals pursuit of healthy goals, meaning goals that are building our life forward, that that are building our life forward, that that are building our life forward, that are going to improve our social are going to improve our social are going to improve our social relationships, sure your income, relationships, sure your income, relationships, sure your income, although you know it's risky to just be although you know it's risky to just be although you know it's risky to just be in pursuit of money, right? there. The in pursuit of money, right? there. The in pursuit of money, right? there. The another great way to encapsulate the another great way to encapsulate the another great way to encapsulate the dopamine conversation is I think it's in dopamine conversation is I think it's in dopamine conversation is I think it's in that movie Wall Street where the guy
2:44that movie Wall Street where the guy that movie Wall Street where the guy says, "What's your number?" You know, says, "What's your number?" You know, says, "What's your number?" You know, "How much money do you want?" And he "How much money do you want?" And he "How much money do you want?" And he just says, "More." Well, that's just says, "More." Well, that's just says, "More." Well, that's dopamine. That's the essence of dopamine. That's the essence of dopamine. That's the essence of dopamine. He just wants more. It's not dopamine. He just wants more. It's not dopamine. He just wants more. It's not really about a number. It's about the really about a number. It's about the really about a number. It's about the pursuit and acquisition of money for pursuit and acquisition of money for pursuit and acquisition of money for him. It's the verb of acquisition. It's him. It's the verb of acquisition. It's him. It's the verb of acquisition. It's not having that money. And you see this not having that money. And you see this not having that money. And you see this in people that get a million dollars, in people that get a million dollars, in people that get a million dollars, they want 10. They get 10, they want a they want 10. They get 10, they want a they want 10. They get 10, they want a hundred. They get a hundred, they want hundred. They get a hundred, they want hundred. They get a hundred, they want to be a billionaire. Right? And I can to be a billionaire. Right? And I can to be a billionaire. Right? And I can tell you knowing many billionaires that tell you knowing many billionaires that tell you knowing many billionaires that some of them are happy and some of them some of them are happy and some of them some of them are happy and some of them are intensely unhappy people. It really are intensely unhappy people. It really are intensely unhappy people. It really depends on how well they've managed depends on how well they've managed depends on how well they've managed their relationship to dopamine because their relationship to dopamine because their relationship to dopamine because ultimately it's not about money, right? ultimately it's not about money, right? ultimately it's not about money, right? Dopamine is just a currency. So healthy Dopamine is just a currency. So healthy Dopamine is just a currency. So healthy relationships are absolutely relationships are absolutely relationships are absolutely fundamental. Here's what we know. Many, fundamental. Here's what we know. Many, fundamental. Here's what we know. Many, many people are struggling nowadays from many people are struggling nowadays from many people are struggling nowadays from what we hear of as the isolation crisis. what we hear of as the isolation crisis. what we hear of as the isolation crisis. But all it takes is one trusting, But all it takes is one trusting, But all it takes is one trusting, reliable relationship to start to shift reliable relationship to start to shift reliable relationship to start to shift that in the right direction. I, you that in the right direction. I, you that in the right direction. I, you know, I am so adamant about this. One of know, I am so adamant about this. One of know, I am so adamant about this. One of the most powerful things that anyone can the most powerful things that anyone can the most powerful things that anyone can do, believe it or not, is to have
2:45do, believe it or not, is to have do, believe it or not, is to have someone each morning that they text good someone each morning that they text good someone each morning that they text good morning to. I know this is going to morning to. I know this is going to morning to. I know this is going to sound trivial, corny, and I'm happy to sound trivial, corny, and I'm happy to sound trivial, corny, and I'm happy to take the heat on this one. take the heat on this one. take the heat on this one. find a a friend and in particular men find a a friend and in particular men find a a friend and in particular men who lack friends completely because who lack friends completely because who lack friends completely because there's a greater percentage of those there's a greater percentage of those there's a greater percentage of those although it's certainly the case that although it's certainly the case that although it's certainly the case that many young women and women are um lonely many young women and women are um lonely many young women and women are um lonely as well. Find someone who you can as well. Find someone who you can as well. Find someone who you can communicate with each morning. Just a communicate with each morning. Just a communicate with each morning. Just a good morning text. Seriously, this is good morning text. Seriously, this is good morning text. Seriously, this is one of the most powerful things you can one of the most powerful things you can one of the most powerful things you can do to check in with another member of do to check in with another member of do to check in with another member of your species each morning. You don't your species each morning. You don't your species each morning. You don't have to have conversation. You don't have to have conversation. You don't have to have conversation. You don't have to talk about what you're going to have to talk about what you're going to have to talk about what you're going to do each day. Knowing that someone else do each day. Knowing that someone else do each day. Knowing that someone else out there in the world cares about us out there in the world cares about us out there in the world cares about us each morning when we wake up makes us each morning when we wake up makes us each morning when we wake up makes us feel incredibly feel incredibly feel incredibly part of the tribe. I do this with let's part of the tribe. I do this with let's part of the tribe. I do this with let's see one two two friends religiously one see one two two friends religiously one see one two two friends religiously one from time to time and a few others kind from time to time and a few others kind from time to time and a few others kind of fall in and out of the mix. It's an of fall in and out of the mix. It's an of fall in and out of the mix. It's an extremely powerful thing to do. You're
2:46extremely powerful thing to do. You're extremely powerful thing to do. You're part of a community. Can I ask there are part of a community. Can I ask there are part of a community. Can I ask there are you does it matter what you say because you does it matter what you say because you does it matter what you say because in my group chats we we tend to tell in my group chats we we tend to tell in my group chats we we tend to tell each other to off and stuff and we each other to off and stuff and we each other to off and stuff and we we roast each other. we roast each other. we roast each other. >> That's fine too. Even better if it's >> That's fine too. Even better if it's >> That's fine too. Even better if it's elaborated with how'd you sleep, what elaborated with how'd you sleep, what elaborated with how'd you sleep, what are you doing today, what's your plan are you doing today, what's your plan are you doing today, what's your plan for the day and you reach back. for the day and you reach back. for the day and you reach back. >> Is it about showing concern and care for >> Is it about showing concern and care for >> Is it about showing concern and care for them and having that reciprocated or is them and having that reciprocated or is them and having that reciprocated or is it just about the communication itself? it just about the communication itself? it just about the communication itself? >> Someone cares enough to think about you >> Someone cares enough to think about you >> Someone cares enough to think about you first thing in the morning. You know, first thing in the morning. You know, first thing in the morning. You know, people are really isolated. We move away people are really isolated. We move away people are really isolated. We move away from our families now. And by the way, from our families now. And by the way, from our families now. And by the way, these could be family members that these could be family members that these could be family members that you're communicating with. But the idea you're communicating with. But the idea you're communicating with. But the idea that someone is thinking of us first that someone is thinking of us first that someone is thinking of us first thing in the morning, even if it's just thing in the morning, even if it's just thing in the morning, even if it's just like an operational thing, like, okay, like an operational thing, like, okay, like an operational thing, like, okay, here we go. Good morning. The idea that here we go. Good morning. The idea that here we go. Good morning. The idea that there's some regularity, some there's some regularity, some there's some regularity, some expectation and understanding of a expectation and understanding of a expectation and understanding of a social connection that's reliable is social connection that's reliable is social connection that's reliable is immensely powerful. You know, we've immensely powerful. You know, we've immensely powerful. You know, we've heard a lot even from the US surgeon heard a lot even from the US surgeon heard a lot even from the US surgeon general about the isolation crisis and general about the isolation crisis and general about the isolation crisis and the need for more connection. And the need for more connection. And the need for more connection. And certainly that can and should be in the certainly that can and should be in the certainly that can and should be in the form of walks with people, coffee, form of walks with people, coffee, form of walks with people, coffee, meals, etc. Yes. Yes. And yes. But a
2:47meals, etc. Yes. Yes. And yes. But a meals, etc. Yes. Yes. And yes. But a great starting place that's very low bar great starting place that's very low bar great starting place that's very low bar is just a good morning exchange. Even by is just a good morning exchange. Even by is just a good morning exchange. Even by text, phone would be better each text, phone would be better each text, phone would be better each morning. I do this as an adult with two morning. I do this as an adult with two morning. I do this as an adult with two friends. Good morning. Good morning. If friends. Good morning. Good morning. If friends. Good morning. Good morning. If I don't hear from either one of them by I don't hear from either one of them by I don't hear from either one of them by noon, I start to worry a little bit. Not noon, I start to worry a little bit. Not noon, I start to worry a little bit. Not because they're in any kind of trouble, because they're in any kind of trouble, because they're in any kind of trouble, but it's just become such a routine part but it's just become such a routine part but it's just become such a routine part of my day. It allows you to feel part of of my day. It allows you to feel part of of my day. It allows you to feel part of something bigger than yourself. We are something bigger than yourself. We are something bigger than yourself. We are not meant to live our lives in complete not meant to live our lives in complete not meant to live our lives in complete isolation in complete relationship only isolation in complete relationship only isolation in complete relationship only with our goals. It has to be in relation with our goals. It has to be in relation with our goals. It has to be in relation to other people and our goals. This is to other people and our goals. This is to other people and our goals. This is the importance of going to the the importance of going to the the importance of going to the workplace. This is the importance of workplace. This is the importance of workplace. This is the importance of having a place where you work. If you having a place where you work. If you having a place where you work. If you don't have a place of work, going to a don't have a place of work, going to a don't have a place of work, going to a cafe or a library, seeing faces in the cafe or a library, seeing faces in the cafe or a library, seeing faces in the morning. Now, some people don't want to morning. Now, some people don't want to morning. Now, some people don't want to see any faces in the morning. They're see any faces in the morning. They're see any faces in the morning. They're not ready to quote unquote face the day. not ready to quote unquote face the day. not ready to quote unquote face the day. That's fine. But at some point, seeing That's fine. But at some point, seeing That's fine. But at some point, seeing other people for some period of time, other people for some period of time, other people for some period of time, even just briefly on the street, saying even just briefly on the street, saying even just briefly on the street, saying hello, vitally important. You know, we hello, vitally important. You know, we hello, vitally important. You know, we evolved. We We are a primate species. We
2:48evolved. We We are a primate species. We evolved. We We are a primate species. We are old world primates. We evolved to are old world primates. We evolved to are old world primates. We evolved to look other people in the eye and for look other people in the eye and for look other people in the eye and for them to look back at us, even if just to them to look back at us, even if just to them to look back at us, even if just to say hi as they walk their dog. Now, some say hi as they walk their dog. Now, some say hi as they walk their dog. Now, some people don't have anyone. It's really people don't have anyone. It's really people don't have anyone. It's really sad, but some people don't have anyone sad, but some people don't have anyone sad, but some people don't have anyone to even exchange this basic text with. to even exchange this basic text with. to even exchange this basic text with. In that case, I highly recommend that In that case, I highly recommend that In that case, I highly recommend that you adopt an animal. A dog can you adopt an animal. A dog can you adopt an animal. A dog can accomplish a tremendous amount, not accomplish a tremendous amount, not accomplish a tremendous amount, not everything, but a tremendous amount in everything, but a tremendous amount in everything, but a tremendous amount in terms of making us feel connected. We terms of making us feel connected. We terms of making us feel connected. We are then a caretaker. They're taking are then a caretaker. They're taking are then a caretaker. They're taking care of us. There's empathy there. care of us. There's empathy there. care of us. There's empathy there. There's all sorts of wonderful things. There's all sorts of wonderful things. There's all sorts of wonderful things. If you can't have that, you can get a If you can't have that, you can get a If you can't have that, you can get a fish. Seriously, some being, a plant, fish. Seriously, some being, a plant, fish. Seriously, some being, a plant, some living being that we're responsible some living being that we're responsible some living being that we're responsible for and that relies on us and to some for and that relies on us and to some for and that relies on us and to some extent that we rely on as well is so extent that we rely on as well is so extent that we rely on as well is so crucial. We have huge amounts of neural crucial. We have huge amounts of neural crucial. We have huge amounts of neural real estate devoted to this. humans real estate devoted to this. humans real estate devoted to this. humans especially, you know, most of the brain especially, you know, most of the brain especially, you know, most of the brain is designed for visual processing, for is designed for visual processing, for is designed for visual processing, for movement. And then you start to look at, movement. And then you start to look at, movement. And then you start to look at, okay, like what's kind of the third okay, like what's kind of the third okay, like what's kind of the third element? Well, it's language and social element? Well, it's language and social element? Well, it's language and social connection. So, find someone that you
2:49connection. So, find someone that you connection. So, find someone that you can exchange a morning text with on a can exchange a morning text with on a can exchange a morning text with on a consistent basis, ideally every day. consistent basis, ideally every day. consistent basis, ideally every day. >> Has this come naturally to you? Because >> Has this come naturally to you? Because >> Has this come naturally to you? Because you don't strike me as an individual you don't strike me as an individual you don't strike me as an individual that this comes naturally to. I'm not that this comes naturally to. I'm not that this comes naturally to. I'm not also. also. also. >> Okay. You mean I'm I'm a bit of a a >> Okay. You mean I'm I'm a bit of a a >> Okay. You mean I'm I'm a bit of a a loner. Is that the sense? loner. Is that the sense? loner. Is that the sense? >> I'm a loner. >> I'm a loner. >> I'm a loner. >> I I would be perfectly okay. And there >> I I would be perfectly okay. And there >> I I would be perfectly okay. And there was a year of my life where I feel like was a year of my life where I feel like was a year of my life where I feel like I didn't interact with anyone when I was I didn't interact with anyone when I was I didn't interact with anyone when I was building my first business in a small building my first business in a small building my first business in a small room in a rough area of the UK. But I'm room in a rough area of the UK. But I'm room in a rough area of the UK. But I'm someone who if left to my own devices someone who if left to my own devices someone who if left to my own devices probably wouldn't interact with anybody probably wouldn't interact with anybody probably wouldn't interact with anybody >> and but I you strike me as the same. I >> and but I you strike me as the same. I >> and but I you strike me as the same. I have my dog as well. But have my dog as well. But have my dog as well. But >> yeah, a bit. I don't have a dog right >> yeah, a bit. I don't have a dog right >> yeah, a bit. I don't have a dog right now. I'm getting another one soon. I now. I'm getting another one soon. I now. I'm getting another one soon. I must say I can spend long periods of must say I can spend long periods of must say I can spend long periods of time alone, but I crave social time alone, but I crave social time alone, but I crave social connection and more so as I get older. connection and more so as I get older. connection and more so as I get older. You know, I think um most of the You know, I think um most of the You know, I think um most of the challenges in my life have been around challenges in my life have been around challenges in my life have been around trying to resolve the need to get work trying to resolve the need to get work trying to resolve the need to get work done that I'm really passionate about done that I'm really passionate about done that I'm really passionate about and the let's just call it what it is. and the let's just call it what it is. and the let's just call it what it is. The isolation required for that, the The isolation required for that, the The isolation required for that, the discipline, the organization that's discipline, the organization that's discipline, the organization that's required for that and the desire to to
2:50required for that and the desire to to required for that and the desire to to be socially connected. Now, I've been be socially connected. Now, I've been be socially connected. Now, I've been very fortunate to have a lot of really very fortunate to have a lot of really very fortunate to have a lot of really close friends, and I'm in communication close friends, and I'm in communication close friends, and I'm in communication with them on a regular basis. And I've with them on a regular basis. And I've with them on a regular basis. And I've been closer to some than others. There's been closer to some than others. There's been closer to some than others. There's some that I'm really close with. I talk some that I'm really close with. I talk some that I'm really close with. I talk to all the time, every day. I'm close to all the time, every day. I'm close to all the time, every day. I'm close with my sister. I talk to my parents a with my sister. I talk to my parents a with my sister. I talk to my parents a fair amount. You know, more than some, fair amount. You know, more than some, fair amount. You know, more than some, less than others. Depends on the family less than others. Depends on the family less than others. Depends on the family structure. Um, and a few friends are structure. Um, and a few friends are structure. Um, and a few friends are just absolutely central to my life and just absolutely central to my life and just absolutely central to my life and well-being. I think when you have a well-being. I think when you have a well-being. I think when you have a romantic partner that you live with or romantic partner that you live with or romantic partner that you live with or that you're in communication with, then that you're in communication with, then that you're in communication with, then becomes more frequent. But even there, becomes more frequent. But even there, becomes more frequent. But even there, you know, I think it's important to you know, I think it's important to you know, I think it's important to still maintain healthy friendships. And still maintain healthy friendships. And still maintain healthy friendships. And of course, people differ on this of course, people differ on this of course, people differ on this spectrum. I don't think you need a lot spectrum. I don't think you need a lot spectrum. I don't think you need a lot of friends. I think you need one really of friends. I think you need one really of friends. I think you need one really reliable good friend or more depending reliable good friend or more depending reliable good friend or more depending on, you know, what your needs are. And I on, you know, what your needs are. And I on, you know, what your needs are. And I think that think that think that as I've gotten older, I realized that, as I've gotten older, I realized that, as I've gotten older, I realized that, you know, the the best things in life, you know, the the best things in life, you know, the the best things in life, success in particular, but also hard success in particular, but also hard success in particular, but also hard times are best shared with other people. times are best shared with other people. times are best shared with other people. And the best way to make friends really And the best way to make friends really And the best way to make friends really is
2:51is is twofold. You know, a friend of mine once twofold. You know, a friend of mine once twofold. You know, a friend of mine once said this. He said, you know, people said this. He said, you know, people said this. He said, you know, people with interests are interesting. So with interests are interesting. So with interests are interesting. So people, so if you're interested in people, so if you're interested in people, so if you're interested in things, you know, going and interacting things, you know, going and interacting things, you know, going and interacting with those things, even if they're with those things, even if they're with those things, even if they're within books, etc. Have interests, within books, etc. Have interests, within books, etc. Have interests, genuine interests. Don't just learn genuine interests. Don't just learn genuine interests. Don't just learn things for learning sake, but just have things for learning sake, but just have things for learning sake, but just have interests. And then the other is that if interests. And then the other is that if interests. And then the other is that if you are not the sort of person for whom you are not the sort of person for whom you are not the sort of person for whom like friendships are just pouring over like friendships are just pouring over like friendships are just pouring over you and people want your time then be of you and people want your time then be of you and people want your time then be of service. You know this notion of be the service. You know this notion of be the service. You know this notion of be the person who sends the good morning text. person who sends the good morning text. person who sends the good morning text. Now if somebody never reciprocates well Now if somebody never reciprocates well Now if somebody never reciprocates well then okay maybe you look elsewhere and then okay maybe you look elsewhere and then okay maybe you look elsewhere and and send your your energy elsewhere but and send your your energy elsewhere but and send your your energy elsewhere but be the person who checks up on somebody be the person who checks up on somebody be the person who checks up on somebody on a family member or friend on a on a family member or friend on a on a family member or friend on a regular basis. be the person of service regular basis. be the person of service regular basis. be the person of service and um you can volunteer, you can help and um you can volunteer, you can help and um you can volunteer, you can help people in any number of ways. I mean, people in any number of ways. I mean, people in any number of ways. I mean, the great thing about a dog or just the great thing about a dog or just the great thing about a dog or just taking walks is that you you'll find if taking walks is that you you'll find if taking walks is that you you'll find if you do it continually in the same you do it continually in the same you do it continually in the same neighborhood over and over, you start to neighborhood over and over, you start to neighborhood over and over, you start to run into the same people and it becomes
2:52run into the same people and it becomes run into the same people and it becomes a hello, maybe they become a friend, a hello, maybe they become a friend, a hello, maybe they become a friend, maybe it's just the familiarity, maybe maybe it's just the familiarity, maybe maybe it's just the familiarity, maybe it's the barista that you say hello to it's the barista that you say hello to it's the barista that you say hello to each morning. You know, these things are each morning. You know, these things are each morning. You know, these things are really what I think we evolved, in fact, really what I think we evolved, in fact, really what I think we evolved, in fact, I know we evolved to do and they trigger I know we evolved to do and they trigger I know we evolved to do and they trigger activation of these circuits that are so activation of these circuits that are so activation of these circuits that are so fundamental to our sense of of fundamental to our sense of of fundamental to our sense of of well-being and safety. It it largely has well-being and safety. It it largely has well-being and safety. It it largely has to do with our ability to predict the to do with our ability to predict the to do with our ability to predict the future. I mean, right now we're in a future. I mean, right now we're in a future. I mean, right now we're in a political landscape and a you know, just political landscape and a you know, just political landscape and a you know, just a world landscape that's so uncertain a world landscape that's so uncertain a world landscape that's so uncertain and so divisive. you know, just having and so divisive. you know, just having and so divisive. you know, just having some things that are just good. Let's some things that are just good. Let's some things that are just good. Let's just call it what it is. Goodness. Just just call it what it is. Goodness. Just just call it what it is. Goodness. Just goodnatured humans being good-natured, goodnatured humans being good-natured, goodnatured humans being good-natured, you know, being kind to one another and you know, being kind to one another and you know, being kind to one another and not in any kind of manipulative way. not in any kind of manipulative way. not in any kind of manipulative way. Just really being kind to one another. Just really being kind to one another. Just really being kind to one another. And then upon that, one can layer, you And then upon that, one can layer, you And then upon that, one can layer, you know, a couple extra hours of work where know, a couple extra hours of work where know, a couple extra hours of work where you're highly motivated, then getting you're highly motivated, then getting you're highly motivated, then getting back out, take your, you know, your back out, take your, you know, your back out, take your, you know, your lunch outside and maybe you don't see lunch outside and maybe you don't see lunch outside and maybe you don't see anybody. You know, people who are anybody. You know, people who are anybody. You know, people who are isolated probably have to do more work isolated probably have to do more work isolated probably have to do more work to interact with other people. But there to interact with other people. But there to interact with other people. But there are ways to do this. And you know, for
2:53are ways to do this. And you know, for are ways to do this. And you know, for people that struggle with addictions people that struggle with addictions people that struggle with addictions like the pornography addictions or like the pornography addictions or like the pornography addictions or alcohol, drug addictions and other like alcohol, drug addictions and other like alcohol, drug addictions and other like behavioral addictions, I mean, there are behavioral addictions, I mean, there are behavioral addictions, I mean, there are zerocost programs essentially in every zerocost programs essentially in every zerocost programs essentially in every city around the world that people can city around the world that people can city around the world that people can access some of the social connection and access some of the social connection and access some of the social connection and support for those that again are support for those that again are support for those that again are completely zero cost. for people that um completely zero cost. for people that um completely zero cost. for people that um are interested in exercise, you know, are interested in exercise, you know, are interested in exercise, you know, there's usually like running groups. there's usually like running groups. there's usually like running groups. There's usually a threshold one has to There's usually a threshold one has to There's usually a threshold one has to get over. I'm not one to join a running get over. I'm not one to join a running get over. I'm not one to join a running group or work out with other people. group or work out with other people. group or work out with other people. This is not my kind of thing, This is not my kind of thing, This is not my kind of thing, >> but I do require I've found um I need >> but I do require I've found um I need >> but I do require I've found um I need healthy social connection. healthy social connection. healthy social connection. >> When did you figure that out? Because >> When did you figure that out? Because >> When did you figure that out? Because there was an age where I can tell there was an age where I can tell there was an age where I can tell exactly when I figured it out. So, I exactly when I figured it out. So, I exactly when I figured it out. So, I know there must be one for you where you know there must be one for you where you know there must be one for you where you kind of figure it out. kind of figure it out. kind of figure it out. >> Yeah. I mean, I grew up in a big pack of >> Yeah. I mean, I grew up in a big pack of >> Yeah. I mean, I grew up in a big pack of boys at the end of my street growing up. boys at the end of my street growing up. boys at the end of my street growing up. uh we all played together. Then uh we all played together. Then uh we all played together. Then skateboarding and that world, I was just skateboarding and that world, I was just skateboarding and that world, I was just really surrounded by people all the really surrounded by people all the really surrounded by people all the time. When I got serious about school time. When I got serious about school time. When I got serious about school and research, there were a lot of days and research, there were a lot of days and research, there were a lot of days and nights I was alone. And at that
2:54and nights I was alone. And at that and nights I was alone. And at that time, I'd listen to books or I'd listen time, I'd listen to books or I'd listen time, I'd listen to books or I'd listen to music. Um I still had friends, but I to music. Um I still had friends, but I to music. Um I still had friends, but I was less social. And I think it wasn't was less social. And I think it wasn't was less social. And I think it wasn't really until my mid30s that I that I really until my mid30s that I that I really until my mid30s that I that I started to realize like, whoa, like, started to realize like, whoa, like, started to realize like, whoa, like, okay, even though, you know, I had a okay, even though, you know, I had a okay, even though, you know, I had a girlfriend, I was I was lonely and I was girlfriend, I was I was lonely and I was girlfriend, I was I was lonely and I was starting to accumulate some unhealthy starting to accumulate some unhealthy starting to accumulate some unhealthy patterns of behavior where I was just patterns of behavior where I was just patterns of behavior where I was just seeking connection in unhealthy ways. seeking connection in unhealthy ways. seeking connection in unhealthy ways. And as I've built up my friendship And as I've built up my friendship And as I've built up my friendship group, and that also, of course, group, and that also, of course, group, and that also, of course, requires being a good friend. And I requires being a good friend. And I requires being a good friend. And I suppose there are a few people out there suppose there are a few people out there suppose there are a few people out there that probably say that I'm an unreliable that probably say that I'm an unreliable that probably say that I'm an unreliable friend, but I think if you were to pull friend, but I think if you were to pull friend, but I think if you were to pull my 10 or 15 closest friends, they'll my 10 or 15 closest friends, they'll my 10 or 15 closest friends, they'll tell you I'm the guy that checks in. tell you I'm the guy that checks in. tell you I'm the guy that checks in. Now, I probably upset a few people Now, I probably upset a few people Now, I probably upset a few people because I don't check in on everybody, because I don't check in on everybody, because I don't check in on everybody, but it's true. I've got a list. I but it's true. I've got a list. I but it's true. I've got a list. I actually have a list. It's not in this actually have a list. It's not in this actually have a list. It's not in this notebook of about 10 or 15 people. It's notebook of about 10 or 15 people. It's notebook of about 10 or 15 people. It's a list of 30 people total that those are a list of 30 people total that those are a list of 30 people total that those are my core people. And I make it a point, my core people. And I make it a point, my core people. And I make it a point, it's not because I'm regimented or it's not because I'm regimented or it's not because I'm regimented or protocoling any of this. I make it a protocoling any of this. I make it a protocoling any of this. I make it a point to check in on that person. I point to check in on that person. I point to check in on that person. I haven't called that person in a little haven't called that person in a little haven't called that person in a little while. But then there's that core group while. But then there's that core group while. But then there's that core group of people that I make sure to check in of people that I make sure to check in of people that I make sure to check in with every day, at least every week. And
2:55with every day, at least every week. And with every day, at least every week. And that like without whom like I don't that like without whom like I don't that like without whom like I don't really want to live. It's not that I really want to live. It's not that I really want to live. It's not that I want to die, but life's just so much want to die, but life's just so much want to die, but life's just so much better with those people in my life. better with those people in my life. better with those people in my life. >> How does someone make that list that 15 >> How does someone make that list that 15 >> How does someone make that list that 15 names you have? names you have? names you have? >> It's all feel. It's the people that I >> It's all feel. It's the people that I >> It's all feel. It's the people that I accept and that accept me. You know, my accept and that accept me. You know, my accept and that accept me. You know, my patterns of communication are a little patterns of communication are a little patterns of communication are a little weird. It's gotten me into trouble in weird. It's gotten me into trouble in weird. It's gotten me into trouble in life for sure. I'll be, you know, a good life for sure. I'll be, you know, a good life for sure. I'll be, you know, a good friend of mine once said, you know, that friend of mine once said, you know, that friend of mine once said, you know, that I'm like the little um orbiting uh I'm like the little um orbiting uh I'm like the little um orbiting uh flying robot in Star Wars. I'm like flying robot in Star Wars. I'm like flying robot in Star Wars. I'm like there and then I'm gone. And people that there and then I'm gone. And people that there and then I'm gone. And people that know me, and by the way, he's a very know me, and by the way, he's a very know me, and by the way, he's a very close friend, know that I'm gone, but I close friend, know that I'm gone, but I close friend, know that I'm gone, but I but I'm back. And so I tend to give but I'm back. And so I tend to give but I'm back. And so I tend to give things my full attention. I'm like 10 things my full attention. I'm like 10 things my full attention. I'm like 10 out of 10 attention. And then I need my out of 10 attention. And then I need my out of 10 attention. And then I need my space to reset. And that hasn't always space to reset. And that hasn't always space to reset. And that hasn't always been healthy, but I've done my best to been healthy, but I've done my best to been healthy, but I've done my best to try and get better at it over time. And try and get better at it over time. And try and get better at it over time. And people that make that list are either people that make that list are either people that make that list are either the same way. A few a few of them are the same way. A few a few of them are the same way. A few a few of them are definitely the same way where I'm like, definitely the same way where I'm like, definitely the same way where I'm like, "Hey, I haven't heard from them in a
2:56"Hey, I haven't heard from them in a "Hey, I haven't heard from them in a while." But then when I sit down with while." But then when I sit down with while." But then when I sit down with them, or we have a phone call, it's like them, or we have a phone call, it's like them, or we have a phone call, it's like they're really there. In fact, some of they're really there. In fact, some of they're really there. In fact, some of these people will say, "Let's talk these people will say, "Let's talk these people will say, "Let's talk tomorrow. Let's talk tomorrow." And it tomorrow. Let's talk tomorrow." And it tomorrow. Let's talk tomorrow." And it never happens. And I know they're not never happens. And I know they're not never happens. And I know they're not flaky. I know that they're doing other flaky. I know that they're doing other flaky. I know that they're doing other things. And then when they're ready and things. And then when they're ready and things. And then when they're ready and we get on a call, man, it's the richest we get on a call, man, it's the richest we get on a call, man, it's the richest interaction I've ever had. It's so deep interaction I've ever had. It's so deep interaction I've ever had. It's so deep and so rich. I'm like, I get so much out and so rich. I'm like, I get so much out and so rich. I'm like, I get so much out of a 10-minute conversation. It's like, of a 10-minute conversation. It's like, of a 10-minute conversation. It's like, yes, or an hourlong conversation. And yes, or an hourlong conversation. And yes, or an hourlong conversation. And then there are friends that I'll hang then there are friends that I'll hang then there are friends that I'll hang out with for a week. I'll go visit um go out with for a week. I'll go visit um go out with for a week. I'll go visit um go for a hike with. But it's the richness for a hike with. But it's the richness for a hike with. But it's the richness of the interaction that matters for me. of the interaction that matters for me. of the interaction that matters for me. >> Not the frequency. >> Not the frequency. >> Not the frequency. >> Not the frequency. That's right. And >> Not the frequency. That's right. And >> Not the frequency. That's right. And then for me, I think people who consider then for me, I think people who consider then for me, I think people who consider me a good friend or people who me a good friend or people who me a good friend or people who understand understand understand the intensity that I bring to things and the intensity that I bring to things and the intensity that I bring to things and you know the love and care that I really you know the love and care that I really you know the love and care that I really have for them and that if they need me, have for them and that if they need me, have for them and that if they need me, I'm there. Like I will tell you, I've I'm there. Like I will tell you, I've I'm there. Like I will tell you, I've hit some hard times some recently and it hit some hard times some recently and it hit some hard times some recently and it was amazing. I had people descending on was amazing. I had people descending on was amazing. I had people descending on my home to be with me. Yeah, I'll tear
2:57my home to be with me. Yeah, I'll tear my home to be with me. Yeah, I'll tear up if I talk about it. Some of them are up if I talk about it. Some of them are up if I talk about it. Some of them are names people are familiar with in the in names people are familiar with in the in names people are familiar with in the in the podcast space. the podcast space. the podcast space. And I was like, "Oh my goodness." Like I And I was like, "Oh my goodness." Like I And I was like, "Oh my goodness." Like I like I've not had that, you know, I will like I've not had that, you know, I will like I've not had that, you know, I will get uh emotional. You know, they came to get uh emotional. You know, they came to get uh emotional. You know, they came to my home and they sat with me and yeah, my home and they sat with me and yeah, my home and they sat with me and yeah, they picked me up and they reminded me they picked me up and they reminded me they picked me up and they reminded me who I am and um who I am and um who I am and um you know, I I have just such immense you know, I I have just such immense you know, I I have just such immense gratitude for that. Um you know, I'm a gratitude for that. Um you know, I'm a gratitude for that. Um you know, I'm a 49year-old man. Um, I've done some 49year-old man. Um, I've done some 49year-old man. Um, I've done some things correctly. I've done some things things correctly. I've done some things things correctly. I've done some things I regret. Um, I've strived to be the I regret. Um, I've strived to be the I regret. Um, I've strived to be the best person I could be at the time, best person I could be at the time, best person I could be at the time, doing the best I had with what I had. doing the best I had with what I had. doing the best I had with what I had. And they know that. And I know they know And they know that. And I know they know And they know that. And I know they know that, not just because they told me, but that, not just because they told me, but that, not just because they told me, but like you can feel it. And I've been like you can feel it. And I've been like you can feel it. And I've been blessed enough not just to know these blessed enough not just to know these blessed enough not just to know these people, but also that when they've been people, but also that when they've been people, but also that when they've been in need that I've had the opportunity to in need that I've had the opportunity to in need that I've had the opportunity to go to them, you know, and I had to do
2:58go to them, you know, and I had to do go to them, you know, and I had to do that several times recently. Things that that several times recently. Things that that several times recently. Things that had nothing to do with me. You just had nothing to do with me. You just had nothing to do with me. You just Sometimes people will outright ask for Sometimes people will outright ask for Sometimes people will outright ask for help. Sometimes they'll say they're in help. Sometimes they'll say they're in help. Sometimes they'll say they're in danger. Sometimes you just sense it and danger. Sometimes you just sense it and danger. Sometimes you just sense it and it's like that's it. I'm driving, you it's like that's it. I'm driving, you it's like that's it. I'm driving, you know, um getting in the car. And um and know, um getting in the car. And um and know, um getting in the car. And um and I've learned the best thing, the way you I've learned the best thing, the way you I've learned the best thing, the way you build that kind of friendship and build that kind of friendship and build that kind of friendship and network is by showing up when that network is by showing up when that network is by showing up when that hard stuff isn't happening and you try hard stuff isn't happening and you try hard stuff isn't happening and you try and give your full attention. And and give your full attention. And and give your full attention. And sometimes that requires putting away the sometimes that requires putting away the sometimes that requires putting away the phone. And sometimes it means you're phone. And sometimes it means you're phone. And sometimes it means you're both on your phones and you're just both on your phones and you're just both on your phones and you're just hanging out and you're watching a game hanging out and you're watching a game hanging out and you're watching a game or, you know, it doesn't mean being like or, you know, it doesn't mean being like or, you know, it doesn't mean being like forcing yourself to be somebody you're forcing yourself to be somebody you're forcing yourself to be somebody you're not. But it means paying attention and not. But it means paying attention and not. But it means paying attention and um um um yeah and giving giving a significant yeah and giving giving a significant yeah and giving giving a significant portion of ourselves to try and really portion of ourselves to try and really portion of ourselves to try and really like be there for people because like be there for people because like be there for people because ultimately I think that's what we want ultimately I think that's what we want ultimately I think that's what we want in social interactions, you know, we in social interactions, you know, we in social interactions, you know, we want listening, we want shared want listening, we want shared want listening, we want shared experience, we want all that stuff and
2:59experience, we want all that stuff and experience, we want all that stuff and that stuff's great, but ultimately it's that stuff's great, but ultimately it's that stuff's great, but ultimately it's like when you ask who makes the list, like when you ask who makes the list, like when you ask who makes the list, it's like I'm thinking of these people it's like I'm thinking of these people it's like I'm thinking of these people now. It's like I feel like they're now. It's like I feel like they're now. It's like I feel like they're always with me, you know, and um always with me, you know, and um always with me, you know, and um I wouldn't trade any amount of money, I wouldn't trade any amount of money, I wouldn't trade any amount of money, any amount of anything for that. And I any amount of anything for that. And I any amount of anything for that. And I think that think that like a really good life includes some of like a really good life includes some of like a really good life includes some of that. So, you know, forgive me for being that. So, you know, forgive me for being that. So, you know, forgive me for being emotional. Um or don't. [clears throat] emotional. Um or don't. [clears throat] emotional. Um or don't. [clears throat] It doesn't really matter to me. I just It doesn't really matter to me. I just It doesn't really matter to me. I just feel like uh that's the real stuff that feel like uh that's the real stuff that feel like uh that's the real stuff that makes life really worth living. And it makes life really worth living. And it makes life really worth living. And it has nothing to do, you know, uh, with has nothing to do, you know, uh, with has nothing to do, you know, uh, with dopamine or maybe it does or it doesn't dopamine or maybe it does or it doesn't dopamine or maybe it does or it doesn't matter what the mechanisms are. What matter what the mechanisms are. What matter what the mechanisms are. What matters is that we all have that matters is that we all have that matters is that we all have that capacity. And it starts by just showing capacity. And it starts by just showing capacity. And it starts by just showing up on a regular basis. Showing somebody up on a regular basis. Showing somebody up on a regular basis. Showing somebody that you can care about them enough to that you can care about them enough to that you can care about them enough to think about them each morning and and think about them each morning and and think about them each morning and and send them a quick good morning text. send them a quick good morning text. send them a quick good morning text. That's it. And if they don't reply,
3:00That's it. And if they don't reply, That's it. And if they don't reply, okay. And if they do, okay. And once the okay. And if they do, okay. And once the okay. And if they do, okay. And once the reciprocation starts and you start to reciprocation starts and you start to reciprocation starts and you start to feel crudeed up just a little bit, feel crudeed up just a little bit, feel crudeed up just a little bit, you're like, "Oh, wow." Like there's you're like, "Oh, wow." Like there's you're like, "Oh, wow." Like there's something I can rely on in this crazy, something I can rely on in this crazy, something I can rely on in this crazy, dizzying, sometimes exhausting, dizzying, sometimes exhausting, dizzying, sometimes exhausting, really hard life. really hard life. really hard life. And then when the good stuff happens, And then when the good stuff happens, And then when the good stuff happens, you got that many more people to you got that many more people to you got that many more people to celebrate with and that much more celebrate with and that much more celebrate with and that much more intensely. So yeah, appreciate you intensely. So yeah, appreciate you intensely. So yeah, appreciate you letting me share that. It's um it's letting me share that. It's um it's letting me share that. It's um it's something that uh at this stage of life something that uh at this stage of life something that uh at this stage of life I'm like okay like I know a few things. I'm like okay like I know a few things. I'm like okay like I know a few things. There's a lot I still have to learn but There's a lot I still have to learn but There's a lot I still have to learn but that one's for sure. Yeah. Friendship is vital. You went through a bit of a bit of a You went through a bit of a bit of a storm this year to say the least. And storm this year to say the least. And storm this year to say the least. And I've been through many a storm in my I've been through many a storm in my I've been through many a storm in my life. I've been through many a media life. I've been through many a media life. I've been through many a media storm when the media came for me and storm when the media came for me and storm when the media came for me and wrote things about me and I've and I
3:01wrote things about me and I've and I wrote things about me and I've and I don't think anyone that's not been don't think anyone that's not been don't think anyone that's not been through that before understands how it through that before understands how it through that before understands how it feels because for me when it happens to feels because for me when it happens to feels because for me when it happens to me there's this real sense of injustice me there's this real sense of injustice me there's this real sense of injustice and there's this desire for me to want and there's this desire for me to want and there's this desire for me to want to jump out and correct things and to jump out and correct things and to jump out and correct things and scream and shout and correct the world scream and shout and correct the world scream and shout and correct the world but I also know that I can't and I when but I also know that I can't and I when but I also know that I can't and I when I saw again I didn't see anything but I saw again I didn't see anything but I saw again I didn't see anything but I'm from afar looking at you know social I'm from afar looking at you know social I'm from afar looking at you know social media when I saw you going through a media when I saw you going through a media when I saw you going through a similar thing my two things happened the similar thing my two things happened the similar thing my two things happened the thing one was I wanted to understand the thing one was I wanted to understand the thing one was I wanted to understand the protocols of a man who writes about protocols of a man who writes about protocols of a man who writes about protocols, has a book coming out about protocols, has a book coming out about protocols, has a book coming out about protocols. I wanted to understand what protocols. I wanted to understand what protocols. I wanted to understand what he does in that situation and if he's he does in that situation and if he's he does in that situation and if he's any more immune than I am because I'm any more immune than I am because I'm any more immune than I am because I'm certainly fragile in that regard. But certainly fragile in that regard. But certainly fragile in that regard. But then also I saw this other wonderful then also I saw this other wonderful then also I saw this other wonderful thing which I think you've expressed thing which I think you've expressed thing which I think you've expressed there is I saw your friends show up. there is I saw your friends show up. there is I saw your friends show up. >> I I saw them speak out about your >> I I saw them speak out about your >> I I saw them speak out about your character and who you actually are. And character and who you actually are. And character and who you actually are. And I saw them literally show up at your I saw them literally show up at your I saw them literally show up at your location. I saw someone like Lex location. I saw someone like Lex location. I saw someone like Lex Freedman show up for you. Freedman show up for you. Freedman show up for you. >> Yeah. showed up in my home several >> Yeah. showed up in my home several >> Yeah. showed up in my home several times. He he was just there like times. He he was just there like times. He he was just there like literally one day I just like look up
3:02literally one day I just like look up literally one day I just like look up and Lex is in the room. It's kind of and Lex is in the room. It's kind of and Lex is in the room. It's kind of like a dream, right? Like like Lex like a dream, right? Like like Lex like a dream, right? Like like Lex Freedman with the suit and the whole Freedman with the suit and the whole Freedman with the suit and the whole thing [laughter] and um he was just thing [laughter] and um he was just thing [laughter] and um he was just there to just be there, you know. Um there to just be there, you know. Um there to just be there, you know. Um yeah, that was a challenge. um you know yeah, that was a challenge. um you know yeah, that was a challenge. um you know as you pointed out the hardest thing as you pointed out the hardest thing as you pointed out the hardest thing about that and I I realize like most about that and I I realize like most about that and I I realize like most people who aren't public facing people who aren't public facing people who aren't public facing um won't experience this but I think um won't experience this but I think um won't experience this but I think everybody experiences something similar everybody experiences something similar everybody experiences something similar at some point in their life especially at some point in their life especially at some point in their life especially now with social media where things that now with social media where things that now with social media where things that are being said about you are just are being said about you are just are being said about you are just fundamentally not true fundamentally not true fundamentally not true fundamentally not true and they're being fundamentally not true and they're being fundamentally not true and they're being cast in a way in a context that is just cast in a way in a context that is just cast in a way in a context that is just wrong wrong wrong and you want to say, "No, that's not how and you want to say, "No, that's not how and you want to say, "No, that's not how it was," or the context is completely it was," or the context is completely it was," or the context is completely wrong, or there's a completely other wrong, or there's a completely other wrong, or there's a completely other side of the story that you'd love to side of the story that you'd love to side of the story that you'd love to tell, but either because of how that tell, but either because of how that tell, but either because of how that will land and how people misperceive or will land and how people misperceive or will land and how people misperceive or contort that or simply because you have
3:03contort that or simply because you have contort that or simply because you have the etiquette and the respect to not do the etiquette and the respect to not do the etiquette and the respect to not do that because there are sometimes many that because there are sometimes many that because there are sometimes many different parties involved. different parties involved. different parties involved. um um you refrain and in our case I decided to you refrain and in our case I decided to you refrain and in our case I decided to just mainly focus on the work at hand. just mainly focus on the work at hand. just mainly focus on the work at hand. Although I've talked a bit about this on Although I've talked a bit about this on Although I've talked a bit about this on Jaco Willings podcast Jaco Willings podcast Jaco Willings podcast about it here. The pain comes from being about it here. The pain comes from being about it here. The pain comes from being potentially misunderstood potentially misunderstood potentially misunderstood and also from the understanding that we and also from the understanding that we and also from the understanding that we didn't always necessarily do everything didn't always necessarily do everything didn't always necessarily do everything right. In fact, we may have made some right. In fact, we may have made some right. In fact, we may have made some mistakes. and the understanding that the mistakes. and the understanding that the mistakes. and the understanding that the public forum is not the place to work public forum is not the place to work public forum is not the place to work out the details of that. That's not how out the details of that. That's not how out the details of that. That's not how healing comes. Despite what people might healing comes. Despite what people might healing comes. Despite what people might believe, that is not how healing comes. believe, that is not how healing comes. believe, that is not how healing comes. And I don't care if it's a high school And I don't care if it's a high school And I don't care if it's a high school situation or a podcaster or a celebrity situation or a podcaster or a celebrity situation or a podcaster or a celebrity or a politician. That is just not the or a politician. That is just not the or a politician. That is just not the way that humans effectively settle their way that humans effectively settle their way that humans effectively settle their differences. There are consequences, but
3:04differences. There are consequences, but differences. There are consequences, but it's not how things really get settled. it's not how things really get settled. it's not how things really get settled. And I think we have proof of that given And I think we have proof of that given And I think we have proof of that given the last few years. So, in that case, the last few years. So, in that case, the last few years. So, in that case, and I'm not trying to be diplomatic or, and I'm not trying to be diplomatic or, and I'm not trying to be diplomatic or, you know, kind of um slalom through you know, kind of um slalom through you know, kind of um slalom through this. I think what I'm trying to do is this. I think what I'm trying to do is this. I think what I'm trying to do is make it effective and hopefully useful make it effective and hopefully useful make it effective and hopefully useful for everybody. What do you do when for everybody. What do you do when for everybody. What do you do when you're hearing and seeing things about you're hearing and seeing things about you're hearing and seeing things about you or others that you affiliate with you or others that you affiliate with you or others that you affiliate with that you just fundamentally disagree that you just fundamentally disagree that you just fundamentally disagree with? Well, you have three options. You with? Well, you have three options. You with? Well, you have three options. You can counter the narrative. You can say can counter the narrative. You can say can counter the narrative. You can say nothing, right? Or you can agree. And nothing, right? Or you can agree. And nothing, right? Or you can agree. And herein, I think, lies the challenge in herein, I think, lies the challenge in herein, I think, lies the challenge in being an adult. A real adult in the being an adult. A real adult in the being an adult. A real adult in the realest sense of the word. A real adult realest sense of the word. A real adult realest sense of the word. A real adult knows when to say, knows when to say, knows when to say, you know what, some of the stuff they're you know what, some of the stuff they're you know what, some of the stuff they're saying, saying, saying, yeah, wish I had chosen differently. yeah, wish I had chosen differently. yeah, wish I had chosen differently. But a real adult also knows to say, but But a real adult also knows to say, but But a real adult also knows to say, but some of the stuff they're saying, no, some of the stuff they're saying, no, some of the stuff they're saying, no, that is not what happened. That's not that is not what happened. That's not that is not what happened. That's not the context, and this is categorically the context, and this is categorically the context, and this is categorically false. Now those things often are
3:05false. Now those things often are false. Now those things often are interdigitated. Okay? Now at the interdigitated. Okay? Now at the interdigitated. Okay? Now at the extremes they're not interdigitated but extremes they're not interdigitated but extremes they're not interdigitated but oftentimes they're interdigitated. And oftentimes they're interdigitated. And oftentimes they're interdigitated. And what people have to realize is that what people have to realize is that what people have to realize is that online in comments in certain forms of online in comments in certain forms of online in comments in certain forms of media it's just highly skewed. You're media it's just highly skewed. You're media it's just highly skewed. You're getting just one perspective. In the getting just one perspective. In the getting just one perspective. In the context of science we'd say this is like context of science we'd say this is like context of science we'd say this is like cherrypicking data looking at one cherrypicking data looking at one cherrypicking data looking at one particular portion of the graph or particular portion of the graph or particular portion of the graph or throwing out a bunch of experiments throwing out a bunch of experiments throwing out a bunch of experiments because the data weren't what you wanted because the data weren't what you wanted because the data weren't what you wanted which in science is like terrible. which in science is like terrible. which in science is like terrible. only second in terms of terrible to only second in terms of terrible to only second in terms of terrible to actually making up data, right? Okay. actually making up data, right? Okay. actually making up data, right? Okay. So, I think the challenge is to that to So, I think the challenge is to that to So, I think the challenge is to that to so I know that the challenge in those so I know that the challenge in those so I know that the challenge in those circumstances is to do what in the end I circumstances is to do what in the end I circumstances is to do what in the end I ended up doing which was to sit down and ended up doing which was to sit down and ended up doing which was to sit down and realize that was the circumstance I was realize that was the circumstance I was realize that was the circumstance I was in and then to try and make a really in and then to try and make a really in and then to try and make a really good decision about what to do. And that good decision about what to do. And that good decision about what to do. And that I do believe is best achieved through I do believe is best achieved through I do believe is best achieved through having really good friends, really good having really good friends, really good having really good friends, really good co-workers and family members who can be
3:06co-workers and family members who can be co-workers and family members who can be really clear optics for you when you really clear optics for you when you really clear optics for you when you don't always have the clearest optics. don't always have the clearest optics. don't always have the clearest optics. Meaning they can hear your ideas and you Meaning they can hear your ideas and you Meaning they can hear your ideas and you can spitball what might happen in case can spitball what might happen in case can spitball what might happen in case A, B, or C. But it's not about being A, B, or C. But it's not about being A, B, or C. But it's not about being tactical. It's not about being tactical. It's not about being tactical. It's not about being strategic. It's about remaining true to strategic. It's about remaining true to strategic. It's about remaining true to yourself. And in my case, yourself. And in my case, yourself. And in my case, I just felt that I didn't want to get I just felt that I didn't want to get I just felt that I didn't want to get into the details. Um, and at the same into the details. Um, and at the same into the details. Um, and at the same time, I acknowledge there's always a time, I acknowledge there's always a time, I acknowledge there's always a learning in these things. You asked learning in these things. You asked learning in these things. You asked whether or not knowing protocols can whether or not knowing protocols can whether or not knowing protocols can help. Well, certainly sleep was help. Well, certainly sleep was help. Well, certainly sleep was important. I managed to sleep. There important. I managed to sleep. There important. I managed to sleep. There were some days I slept less than others. were some days I slept less than others. were some days I slept less than others. People had theories. He looks tired. People had theories. He looks tired. People had theories. He looks tired. This and that. Sometimes that was This and that. Sometimes that was This and that. Sometimes that was related to earlier recordings that I related to earlier recordings that I related to earlier recordings that I tended to just push too hard anyway. um tended to just push too hard anyway. um tended to just push too hard anyway. um sometimes it related to you know being sometimes it related to you know being sometimes it related to you know being kind of troubled about the kind of troubled about the kind of troubled about the circumstances. So circumstances. So circumstances. So I think that one can use physiological I think that one can use physiological I think that one can use physiological size. You can use non-sleep deep rest size. You can use non-sleep deep rest size. You can use non-sleep deep rest and I certainly relied on those tools
3:07and I certainly relied on those tools and I certainly relied on those tools and continue to friendship and social and continue to friendship and social and continue to friendship and social support. Getting a poll of opinion from support. Getting a poll of opinion from support. Getting a poll of opinion from people that you really trust. You don't people that you really trust. You don't people that you really trust. You don't want to get too many opinions. Often you want to get too many opinions. Often you want to get too many opinions. Often you want to get just enough and just a want to get just enough and just a want to get just enough and just a variety of them that you can make the variety of them that you can make the variety of them that you can make the best informed decision. I don't really best informed decision. I don't really best informed decision. I don't really believe in polling a hundred people believe in polling a hundred people believe in polling a hundred people about a circumstance and then you know about a circumstance and then you know about a circumstance and then you know taking a vote pros and cons that the taking a vote pros and cons that the taking a vote pros and cons that the mind doesn't work that way. So in the mind doesn't work that way. So in the mind doesn't work that way. So in the end you know I I voted my conscience and end you know I I voted my conscience and end you know I I voted my conscience and I voted my heart um by continuing to I voted my heart um by continuing to I voted my heart um by continuing to just put out content so people could just put out content so people could just put out content so people could learn about science-based tools for learn about science-based tools for learn about science-based tools for mental health, physical health and mental health, physical health and mental health, physical health and performance. I think as time goes on, I performance. I think as time goes on, I performance. I think as time goes on, I may elaborate more on some of the may elaborate more on some of the may elaborate more on some of the circumstances, but I think in the end, circumstances, but I think in the end, circumstances, but I think in the end, you know, people listen to my podcast you know, people listen to my podcast you know, people listen to my podcast because they're interested in getting because they're interested in getting because they're interested in getting better sleep in exercise protocols and better sleep in exercise protocols and better sleep in exercise protocols and hearing from the best scientists and hearing from the best scientists and hearing from the best scientists and clinicians so that they can better clinicians so that they can better clinicians so that they can better themselves in their own life. And people themselves in their own life. And people themselves in their own life. And people speculate all sorts of things. It's also speculate all sorts of things. It's also speculate all sorts of things. It's also interesting to see how we presume so
3:08interesting to see how we presume so interesting to see how we presume so much not just about public facing much not just about public facing much not just about public facing people, but about other people in the people, but about other people in the people, but about other people in the comments section. You know, for comments section. You know, for comments section. You know, for instance, on my Instagram page, instance, on my Instagram page, instance, on my Instagram page, I have rules. It's classroom rules. You I have rules. It's classroom rules. You I have rules. It's classroom rules. You can call me names if you want. You can can call me names if you want. You can can call me names if you want. You can say most things, but I sort of treat it say most things, but I sort of treat it say most things, but I sort of treat it like a classroom. What would I tolerate like a classroom. What would I tolerate like a classroom. What would I tolerate in the classroom? And if people start in the classroom? And if people start in the classroom? And if people start attacking each other, attacking each other, attacking each other, >> you're going to get a warning, and if >> you're going to get a warning, and if >> you're going to get a warning, and if you keep going, I'm going to block you you keep going, I'm going to block you you keep going, I'm going to block you just just because first of all, it's my just just because first of all, it's my just just because first of all, it's my page, right? This whole notion that page, right? This whole notion that page, right? This whole notion that you're not allowed to block people is you're not allowed to block people is you're not allowed to block people is crazy, right? It's your web page. It's crazy, right? It's your web page. It's crazy, right? It's your web page. It's your classroom. your classroom. your classroom. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You have every right. You can say you >> You have every right. You can say you >> You have every right. You can say you can do whatever you want. I mean where can do whatever you want. I mean where can do whatever you want. I mean where is the rule that says that you won't is the rule that says that you won't is the rule that says that you won't tolerate or that you need to tolerate tolerate or that you need to tolerate tolerate or that you need to tolerate whatever you know people swearing at whatever you know people swearing at whatever you know people swearing at each other very different to me than each other very different to me than each other very different to me than people swearing. So people can swear people swearing. So people can swear people swearing. So people can swear fine swear at each other well then I'm fine swear at each other well then I'm fine swear at each other well then I'm going to say hey hey like stop this do going to say hey hey like stop this do going to say hey hey like stop this do it again you're done at least here go it again you're done at least here go it again you're done at least here go elsewhere and there's so much elsewhere and there's so much elsewhere and there's so much presumption. We think we know these presumption. We think we know these presumption. We think we know these people on the internet and we really people on the internet and we really people on the internet and we really don't.
3:09don't. don't. >> On the other hand there are certain >> On the other hand there are certain >> On the other hand there are certain people like Lex like you. I'm really people like Lex like you. I'm really people like Lex like you. I'm really delighted in this conversation. Like delighted in this conversation. Like delighted in this conversation. Like Rick, I like to think like me, like I am Rick, I like to think like me, like I am Rick, I like to think like me, like I am who I am. Now, you're not seeing every who I am. Now, you're not seeing every who I am. Now, you're not seeing every dimension of my life, but frankly, dimension of my life, but frankly, dimension of my life, but frankly, you're not supposed to. [laughter] And I you're not supposed to. [laughter] And I you're not supposed to. [laughter] And I think there's this inherent desire to think there's this inherent desire to think there's this inherent desire to know everything about everybody know everything about everybody know everything about everybody >> um that we see online and comment >> um that we see online and comment >> um that we see online and comment sections and on Instagram. And and sections and on Instagram. And and sections and on Instagram. And and frankly, it's inappropriate. I grew up frankly, it's inappropriate. I grew up frankly, it's inappropriate. I grew up in an era where that wasn't right. In in an era where that wasn't right. In in an era where that wasn't right. In fact, my my father um once told me, he fact, my my father um once told me, he fact, my my father um once told me, he again, he's from Argentina, and he said, again, he's from Argentina, and he said, again, he's from Argentina, and he said, "You know, there's this funny thing in "You know, there's this funny thing in "You know, there's this funny thing in the United States. You go into the United States. You go into the United States. You go into somebody's office and they've got all somebody's office and they've got all somebody's office and they've got all these pictures of their kids facing these pictures of their kids facing these pictures of their kids facing outward. He said, "You go into outward. He said, "You go into outward. He said, "You go into somebody's office in certain parts of somebody's office in certain parts of somebody's office in certain parts of Europe or in South America and their Europe or in South America and their Europe or in South America and their picture of their families facing them." picture of their families facing them." picture of their families facing them." So on my dad's desk in his office when I So on my dad's desk in his office when I So on my dad's desk in his office when I was a kid, he had a picture of me and my was a kid, he had a picture of me and my was a kid, he had a picture of me and my sister and my mom and it faced him sister and my mom and it faced him sister and my mom and it faced him >> because those are for him. He wasn't >> because those are for him. He wasn't >> because those are for him. He wasn't like, "Here are my kids. Here's my like, "Here are my kids. Here's my like, "Here are my kids. Here's my here's my life." And I I love that. here's my life." And I I love that. here's my life." And I I love that. That's and that's kind of how I was That's and that's kind of how I was That's and that's kind of how I was raised. You know, you keep certain raised. You know, you keep certain raised. You know, you keep certain things inward and certain things are
3:10things inward and certain things are things inward and certain things are outward. So, I don't know. I I that's outward. So, I don't know. I I that's outward. So, I don't know. I I that's the model I was raised with and I rather the model I was raised with and I rather the model I was raised with and I rather like that this notion that we have to like that this notion that we have to like that this notion that we have to share every aspect of ourselves on share every aspect of ourselves on share every aspect of ourselves on social media is crazy and I think it's social media is crazy and I think it's social media is crazy and I think it's actually detrimental. actually detrimental. actually detrimental. >> If I was if I was a fly on the wall when >> If I was if I was a fly on the wall when >> If I was if I was a fly on the wall when you were going through that, what would you were going through that, what would you were going through that, what would I have seen? And what I cuz I'm what I'm I have seen? And what I cuz I'm what I'm I have seen? And what I cuz I'm what I'm trying the reason I'm asking this trying the reason I'm asking this trying the reason I'm asking this question is super clear because if you question is super clear because if you question is super clear because if you were a fly on the wall when I was going were a fly on the wall when I was going were a fly on the wall when I was going through some of my hardest times, you through some of my hardest times, you through some of my hardest times, you would have seen someone that was really would have seen someone that was really would have seen someone that was really struggling. struggling. struggling. >> Okay. So, I'll say this. >> Okay. So, I'll say this. >> Okay. So, I'll say this. That was definitely not my hardest time. That was definitely not my hardest time. That was definitely not my hardest time. Um, hardest times for me were the doors locked. I'm 14. the doors locked. I'm 14. I'm like behind locked doors. I'm like behind locked doors. I'm like behind locked doors. >> I don't [clears throat] know if I'm >> I don't [clears throat] know if I'm >> I don't [clears throat] know if I'm going to get out when I'm going to get going to get out when I'm going to get going to get out when I'm going to get out. You know, I called the one person I out. You know, I called the one person I out. You know, I called the one person I knew would pick up, guy named Steve knew would pick up, guy named Steve knew would pick up, guy named Steve Rugie. Shrugi, who's my team manager for Rugie. Shrugi, who's my team manager for Rugie. Shrugi, who's my team manager for Thunder and Spitfire Wheels. I called Thunder and Spitfire Wheels. I called Thunder and Spitfire Wheels. I called him. I said, "Srugi, what I'm what am I him. I said, "Srugi, what I'm what am I him. I said, "Srugi, what I'm what am I going to do? I'm locked up in this
3:11going to do? I'm locked up in this going to do? I'm locked up in this place. And his response was, "Bro, place. And his response was, "Bro, place. And his response was, "Bro, you're the most normal guy I know. What you're the most normal guy I know. What you're the most normal guy I know. What am I supposed to do?" You know, I am I supposed to do?" You know, I am I supposed to do?" You know, I thought, "Oh my goodness, what am I thought, "Oh my goodness, what am I thought, "Oh my goodness, what am I gonna do?" Um, gonna do?" Um, gonna do?" Um, yeah, that was scary. That was like, yeah, that was scary. That was like, yeah, that was scary. That was like, what do I do? I'm 14. I have no agency. what do I do? I'm 14. I have no agency. what do I do? I'm 14. I have no agency. I I don't I don't mean like marketing I I don't I don't mean like marketing I I don't I don't mean like marketing agency. I had no ability to like no agency. I had no ability to like no agency. I had no ability to like no money, no anything. No, it worked out. money, no anything. No, it worked out. money, no anything. No, it worked out. Other hard times that time I talked Other hard times that time I talked Other hard times that time I talked about July 4th after that fight. What am about July 4th after that fight. What am about July 4th after that fight. What am I going to do with my life? I'm a I going to do with my life? I'm a I going to do with my life? I'm a complete loser. Other times, you know, complete loser. Other times, you know, complete loser. Other times, you know, I've had this weird karma with mentors. I've had this weird karma with mentors. I've had this weird karma with mentors. I've had three amazing scientific I've had three amazing scientific I've had three amazing scientific mentors. And the relationship between mentors. And the relationship between mentors. And the relationship between mentors in science, mentoring students mentors in science, mentoring students mentors in science, mentoring students in science used to be much closer. You'd in science used to be much closer. You'd in science used to be much closer. You'd get really close. My undergraduate get really close. My undergraduate get really close. My undergraduate adviser was an amazing person. My adviser was an amazing person. My adviser was an amazing person. My graduate adviser was like a mother to me graduate adviser was like a mother to me graduate adviser was like a mother to me and was a truly amazing individual. And and was a truly amazing individual. And and was a truly amazing individual. And my postoc adviser also incredible and I my postoc adviser also incredible and I my postoc adviser also incredible and I was incredibly close with all of them. was incredibly close with all of them. was incredibly close with all of them. And it was suicide, cancer and dead at And it was suicide, cancer and dead at And it was suicide, cancer and dead at 50, cancer and dead early 60s. Like 50, cancer and dead early 60s. Like 50, cancer and dead early 60s. Like three people I was super close with. And three people I was super close with. And three people I was super close with. And when Ben, the third guy, died, I
3:12when Ben, the third guy, died, I when Ben, the third guy, died, I thought, well, there's only one common thought, well, there's only one common thought, well, there's only one common denominator. That's me. I thought I was denominator. That's me. I thought I was denominator. That's me. I thought I was cursed. cursed. cursed. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> Yeah. I'm like, I work for you, you die, >> Yeah. I'm like, I work for you, you die, >> Yeah. I'm like, I work for you, you die, you know, and I was like, Like, you know, and I was like, Like, you know, and I was like, Like, what is going on here? But then I did what is going on here? But then I did what is going on here? But then I did what I only know how to do, which is you what I only know how to do, which is you what I only know how to do, which is you transmute the pain into useful things. transmute the pain into useful things. transmute the pain into useful things. And I started thinking, okay, how do I And I started thinking, okay, how do I And I started thinking, okay, how do I want to spend the rest of my life? I want to spend the rest of my life? I want to spend the rest of my life? I want to be of service. I want to take want to be of service. I want to take want to be of service. I want to take what I know in science. I want to teach what I know in science. I want to teach what I know in science. I want to teach people things that help them. And I people things that help them. And I people things that help them. And I didn't know exactly how I was going to didn't know exactly how I was going to didn't know exactly how I was going to do that. But it birthed the podcast. I do that. But it birthed the podcast. I do that. But it birthed the podcast. I also had three dead mentors. I was a also had three dead mentors. I was a also had three dead mentors. I was a scientific orphan. In science, there's scientific orphan. In science, there's scientific orphan. In science, there's also a lot of trying to live up to the also a lot of trying to live up to the also a lot of trying to live up to the reputation that they expect of you. reputation that they expect of you. reputation that they expect of you. Well, mine are all dead. So, some people Well, mine are all dead. So, some people Well, mine are all dead. So, some people say, "What do your colleagues think of say, "What do your colleagues think of say, "What do your colleagues think of the podcast?" I would say about a third the podcast?" I would say about a third the podcast?" I would say about a third of them like it. They think it's cool. of them like it. They think it's cool. of them like it. They think it's cool. And they say that to me. About a third And they say that to me. About a third And they say that to me. About a third probably think it's great that people probably think it's great that people probably think it's great that people pay attention to science, but are like pay attention to science, but are like pay attention to science, but are like some of it is more health oriented. And some of it is more health oriented. And some of it is more health oriented. And a third probably hate it for whatever a third probably hate it for whatever a third probably hate it for whatever reason. Either jealousy or they don't reason. Either jealousy or they don't reason. Either jealousy or they don't like the way I present things. And I'm like the way I present things. And I'm like the way I present things. And I'm good with all of that because guess good with all of that because guess good with all of that because guess what? My adviserss are dead. I'm a
3:13what? My adviserss are dead. I'm a what? My adviserss are dead. I'm a grown-up. You do you. I'll do me. We're grown-up. You do you. I'll do me. We're grown-up. You do you. I'll do me. We're all good. And frankly, we'll see how it all good. And frankly, we'll see how it all good. And frankly, we'll see how it all works out. Meaning, they're the ones all works out. Meaning, they're the ones all works out. Meaning, they're the ones who have to live with themselves. I'm who have to live with themselves. I'm who have to live with themselves. I'm the one who has to live with me. So like the one who has to live with me. So like the one who has to live with me. So like I'm not responsible for other people's I'm not responsible for other people's I'm not responsible for other people's feelings and they're not responsible for feelings and they're not responsible for feelings and they're not responsible for me. So cool. So it's symbiotic. me. So cool. So it's symbiotic. me. So cool. So it's symbiotic. What I eventually discovered was huh you What I eventually discovered was huh you What I eventually discovered was huh you can reach 40 and have a great career. I can reach 40 and have a great career. I can reach 40 and have a great career. I was tenured at Stanford and a bunch of was tenured at Stanford and a bunch of was tenured at Stanford and a bunch of things but wow like certain aspects of things but wow like certain aspects of things but wow like certain aspects of my life were still challenging. I had my life were still challenging. I had my life were still challenging. I had you know those three deaths plus you you know those three deaths plus you you know those three deaths plus you know um this was some years ago know um this was some years ago know um this was some years ago unrelated to the recent events. you unrelated to the recent events. you unrelated to the recent events. you know, had a really important know, had a really important know, had a really important relationship. End. Just like end after a relationship. End. Just like end after a relationship. End. Just like end after a lot of years of really slogging it out lot of years of really slogging it out lot of years of really slogging it out and trying to make it work. And you and trying to make it work. And you and trying to make it work. And you know, failure is not something I'm used know, failure is not something I'm used know, failure is not something I'm used to. In fact, a friend of this woman um I to. In fact, a friend of this woman um I to. In fact, a friend of this woman um I was at a at a retreat and we were was at a at a retreat and we were was at a at a retreat and we were talking about it and I was really talking about it and I was really talking about it and I was really distraught about the end of the distraught about the end of the distraught about the end of the relationship and she said, "You're not relationship and she said, "You're not relationship and she said, "You're not used to failing, are you?" And I almost used to failing, are you?" And I almost used to failing, are you?" And I almost said like, "Yeah." And I said, "You're
3:14said like, "Yeah." And I said, "You're said like, "Yeah." And I said, "You're right. You're right. I' I've been right. You're right. I' I've been right. You're right. I' I've been successful in career and and a relation successful in career and and a relation successful in career and and a relation a relationship that I we were both a relationship that I we were both a relationship that I we were both really invested in and we just didn't really invested in and we just didn't really invested in and we just didn't have the skills. I made my mistake, she have the skills. I made my mistake, she have the skills. I made my mistake, she made hers, but we really really fought made hers, but we really really fought made hers, but we really really fought hard and it didn't work out. And I was hard and it didn't work out. And I was hard and it didn't work out. And I was like, wow. Like, okay, I had a failure, like, wow. Like, okay, I had a failure, like, wow. Like, okay, I had a failure, like a legitimate failure. And you could like a legitimate failure. And you could like a legitimate failure. And you could say, well, was it really a failure? You say, well, was it really a failure? You say, well, was it really a failure? You learned. But look, there were elements learned. But look, there were elements learned. But look, there were elements of failure, right? We had invested a lot of failure, right? We had invested a lot of failure, right? We had invested a lot of years, a lot of energy, and there was of years, a lot of energy, and there was of years, a lot of energy, and there was a lot of love. But a lot of love. But a lot of love. But >> why why does that make you emotional? I >> why why does that make you emotional? I >> why why does that make you emotional? I can see it in your face. It's can see it in your face. It's can see it in your face. It's >> um Well, this relates to a lot of these >> um Well, this relates to a lot of these >> um Well, this relates to a lot of these things and um and I I suppose I I feel things and um and I I suppose I I feel things and um and I I suppose I I feel comfortable enough to open up about comfortable enough to open up about comfortable enough to open up about this. I think that, you know, some this. I think that, you know, some this. I think that, you know, some people might have the perception that people might have the perception that people might have the perception that I'm like extremely self-interested. I've I'm like extremely self-interested. I've I'm like extremely self-interested. I've had things thrown at me like he's a had things thrown at me like he's a had things thrown at me like he's a narcissist or what or worse, you know, narcissist or what or worse, you know, narcissist or what or worse, you know, like I have had one I've had many, but I like I have had one I've had many, but I like I have had one I've had many, but I have one particular major challenge that have one particular major challenge that have one particular major challenge that I still strive to overcome. I still strive to overcome. I still strive to overcome. And people can roll their eyes and they
3:15And people can roll their eyes and they And people can roll their eyes and they can say it's but I know this can say it's but I know this can say it's but I know this to be absolutely true, which is that I to be absolutely true, which is that I to be absolutely true, which is that I have a very hard time letting go. A very have a very hard time letting go. A very have a very hard time letting go. A very hard time letting go. If somebody dies, hard time letting go. If somebody dies, hard time letting go. If somebody dies, like I can handle that. But like loss like I can handle that. But like loss like I can handle that. But like loss and letting go of people I care about is and letting go of people I care about is and letting go of people I care about is really hard. And it's also coupled with really hard. And it's also coupled with really hard. And it's also coupled with this kind of style that I have of I'm this kind of style that I have of I'm this kind of style that I have of I'm like very present and then I need to go like very present and then I need to go like very present and then I need to go take care of myself, right? Um in take care of myself, right? Um in take care of myself, right? Um in healthy ways. So that can be confusing healthy ways. So that can be confusing healthy ways. So that can be confusing to people. I realize that. But there's to people. I realize that. But there's to people. I realize that. But there's this thing where like the idea of things this thing where like the idea of things this thing where like the idea of things ending is super hard. And as a ending is super hard. And as a ending is super hard. And as a consequence, I've stayed in consequence, I've stayed in consequence, I've stayed in relationships far too long. I mean, you relationships far too long. I mean, you relationships far too long. I mean, you know, I sometimes joke, but it's not know, I sometimes joke, but it's not know, I sometimes joke, but it's not funny. My breakup protocol sucks and it funny. My breakup protocol sucks and it funny. My breakup protocol sucks and it really needs work because everyone close really needs work because everyone close really needs work because everyone close to me who knows me really well and who I to me who knows me really well and who I to me who knows me really well and who I trust says you stay in relationships way trust says you stay in relationships way trust says you stay in relationships way too long that were either faded to fail too long that were either faded to fail too long that were either faded to fail or that were clearly going to fail at
3:16or that were clearly going to fail at or that were clearly going to fail at some point you just kept slogging away. some point you just kept slogging away. some point you just kept slogging away. Now sometimes I slogged away in the Now sometimes I slogged away in the Now sometimes I slogged away in the wrong ways and they did too. But somehow wrong ways and they did too. But somehow wrong ways and they did too. But somehow I've um I've really struggled to move on I've um I've really struggled to move on I've um I've really struggled to move on from things and as a consequence I've from things and as a consequence I've from things and as a consequence I've stayed in things far too long that never stayed in things far too long that never stayed in things far too long that never had a chance that were really unhealthy had a chance that were really unhealthy had a chance that were really unhealthy and in particular I've taken on things and in particular I've taken on things and in particular I've taken on things that were just far too difficult from that were just far too difficult from that were just far too difficult from the beginning. And so that relationship the beginning. And so that relationship the beginning. And so that relationship was a beautiful relationship. I'm was a beautiful relationship. I'm was a beautiful relationship. I'm fortunate that I'm still friends with fortunate that I'm still friends with fortunate that I'm still friends with that person although we have to keep a that person although we have to keep a that person although we have to keep a certain amount of distance just at certain amount of distance just at certain amount of distance just at healthy boundaries. And you know, I get healthy boundaries. And you know, I get healthy boundaries. And you know, I get emotional because like damn it, like we emotional because like damn it, like we emotional because like damn it, like we fought so hard, like so hard. And it was fought so hard, like so hard. And it was fought so hard, like so hard. And it was all out of love. But I think it I know all out of love. But I think it I know all out of love. But I think it I know that it failed because that it failed because that it failed because we just didn't have the skills. The we just didn't have the skills. The we just didn't have the skills. The timing wasn't right. And I'm certainly timing wasn't right. And I'm certainly timing wasn't right. And I'm certainly not talking about this most recent not talking about this most recent not talking about this most recent relationship, you know, this year's hard relationship, you know, this year's hard relationship, you know, this year's hard stuff. This was some years back, but
3:17stuff. This was some years back, but stuff. This was some years back, but like we fought so hard and like I would like we fought so hard and like I would like we fought so hard and like I would have done anything [clears throat] have done anything [clears throat] have done anything [clears throat] and she would have done anything to make and she would have done anything to make and she would have done anything to make it work. And I'm just like I'm not a it work. And I'm just like I'm not a it work. And I'm just like I'm not a quitter. I'm far from perfect, believe quitter. I'm far from perfect, believe quitter. I'm far from perfect, believe me, but I'm not a quitter. And as a me, but I'm not a quitter. And as a me, but I'm not a quitter. And as a consequence, I think after that consequence, I think after that consequence, I think after that it for a while it just really changed it for a while it just really changed it for a while it just really changed the way that I interacted with things. I the way that I interacted with things. I the way that I interacted with things. I I just didn't quite recover. And one I just didn't quite recover. And one I just didn't quite recover. And one could argue that the emotion that's could argue that the emotion that's could argue that the emotion that's coming up for me now means that I didn't coming up for me now means that I didn't coming up for me now means that I didn't recover. But I know I just I just recover. But I know I just I just recover. But I know I just I just refuse to call time of death. I just refuse to call time of death. I just refuse to call time of death. I just refuse to call it time of death even refuse to call it time of death even refuse to call it time of death even when it's long since dead. And that's a when it's long since dead. And that's a when it's long since dead. And that's a mistake and it's something I'm really mistake and it's something I'm really mistake and it's something I'm really working on now because it hurt me. It working on now because it hurt me. It working on now because it hurt me. It it's not good for other people and it it's not good for other people and it it's not good for other people and it dovetales with a bunch of other dovetales with a bunch of other dovetales with a bunch of other unhealthy ways of being. Um but what I unhealthy ways of being. Um but what I unhealthy ways of being. Um but what I know for sure is that it's not know for sure is that it's not know for sure is that it's not selfishness. It's not that I'm trying to selfishness. It's not that I'm trying to selfishness. It's not that I'm trying to avoid pain for myself. It's related to
3:18avoid pain for myself. It's related to avoid pain for myself. It's related to my failure to be able to my failure to be able to my failure to be able to just just just tolerate pain in other people and myself tolerate pain in other people and myself tolerate pain in other people and myself simultaneously. There's something about simultaneously. There's something about simultaneously. There's something about empathy gone wrong in those empathy gone wrong in those empathy gone wrong in those circumstances. circumstances. circumstances. >> Does that link to your childhood >> Does that link to your childhood >> Does that link to your childhood parents, the parental separation and parents, the parental separation and parents, the parental separation and >> Yeah. So, people I pay a lot of money to >> Yeah. So, people I pay a lot of money to >> Yeah. So, people I pay a lot of money to tell me that it no doubt does. But tell me that it no doubt does. But tell me that it no doubt does. But what's weird is I never lament the what's weird is I never lament the what's weird is I never lament the separation of my parents. I don't sit separation of my parents. I don't sit separation of my parents. I don't sit back and go, I wish they had stayed back and go, I wish they had stayed back and go, I wish they had stayed together. They were both wonderful together. They were both wonderful together. They were both wonderful people. They both have wonderful people. They both have wonderful people. They both have wonderful partners. Like I've had a magnificent partners. Like I've had a magnificent partners. Like I've had a magnificent life. I've had a great life. Like life. I've had a great life. Like life. I've had a great life. Like everything I've sought to do has everything I've sought to do has everything I've sought to do has happened and there's still things I happened and there's still things I happened and there's still things I want. But I think that um I was talking want. But I think that um I was talking want. But I think that um I was talking to Martha Beck about this recently. to Martha Beck about this recently. to Martha Beck about this recently. There's this feeling with a dog where I There's this feeling with a dog where I There's this feeling with a dog where I love the dog and they love you back. love the dog and they love you back. love the dog and they love you back. Particularly my dog Costello, right? I Particularly my dog Costello, right? I Particularly my dog Costello, right? I loved him and he loves me back. And so loved him and he loves me back. And so loved him and he loves me back. And so it's like empathy, but then you it's it's like empathy, but then you it's it's like empathy, but then you it's returned. It's like a perfect circle. returned. It's like a perfect circle. returned. It's like a perfect circle. It's like the energy is like the more I It's like the energy is like the more I It's like the energy is like the more I love the more love I feel the more love love the more love I feel the more love love the more love I feel the more love and I think with people it's not like and I think with people it's not like and I think with people it's not like that right you know people are going to that right you know people are going to that right you know people are going to disappoint us etc but they can also
3:19disappoint us etc but they can also disappoint us etc but they can also delight us but I think that there's been delight us but I think that there's been delight us but I think that there's been this problem where my empathy goes too this problem where my empathy goes too this problem where my empathy goes too far and I'm sure as I'm saying this far and I'm sure as I'm saying this far and I'm sure as I'm saying this people are like oh god he's trying to people are like oh god he's trying to people are like oh god he's trying to mask this in empathy no I can mask this in empathy no I can mask this in empathy no I can wholeheartedly say didn't always lead to wholeheartedly say didn't always lead to wholeheartedly say didn't always lead to the best choices and I own those choices the best choices and I own those choices the best choices and I own those choices but meaning I'll take responsibility for but meaning I'll take responsibility for but meaning I'll take responsibility for my part I won't take responsibility for my part I won't take responsibility for my part I won't take responsibility for other people's part, right? It's always other people's part, right? It's always other people's part, right? It's always a two-way street. But when we a two-way street. But when we a two-way street. But when we have a sense of empathy and that other have a sense of empathy and that other have a sense of empathy and that other person isn't right for us and we person isn't right for us and we person isn't right for us and we continue to try and like feed the continue to try and like feed the continue to try and like feed the relationship, relationship, relationship, it's not about trying to avoid getting it's not about trying to avoid getting it's not about trying to avoid getting them upset, but somehow we get into them upset, but somehow we get into them upset, but somehow we get into these unhealthy dynamics and then, you these unhealthy dynamics and then, you these unhealthy dynamics and then, you know, it can really bring out not the know, it can really bring out not the know, it can really bring out not the worst, but some really like unhealthy worst, but some really like unhealthy worst, but some really like unhealthy parts of people. You know, I think parts of people. You know, I think parts of people. You know, I think probably the hardest thing in life is is probably the hardest thing in life is is probably the hardest thing in life is is romantic relationships. Some people romantic relationships. Some people romantic relationships. Some people might say it's work, but I think it's might say it's work, but I think it's might say it's work, but I think it's the hardest thing in life. And people the hardest thing in life. And people the hardest thing in life. And people say, "Well, when it's right, it's easy."
3:20say, "Well, when it's right, it's easy." say, "Well, when it's right, it's easy." I don't know. I think it depends on how I don't know. I think it depends on how I don't know. I think it depends on how complicated a person you are. [laughter] complicated a person you are. [laughter] complicated a person you are. [laughter] You know, um I think it depends on how You know, um I think it depends on how You know, um I think it depends on how complicated a person you are and the complicated a person you are and the complicated a person you are and the extent to which the other person is extent to which the other person is extent to which the other person is willing to do the work. I've really seen willing to do the work. I've really seen willing to do the work. I've really seen this. I've also had wonderful this. I've also had wonderful this. I've also had wonderful relationships relationships relationships whereby we're each willing to do the whereby we're each willing to do the whereby we're each willing to do the work on self-care and communication. You work on self-care and communication. You work on self-care and communication. You know, Paul Ki said this, not on my know, Paul Ki said this, not on my know, Paul Ki said this, not on my podcast, but I think he was telling podcast, but I think he was telling podcast, but I think he was telling Whitney Cummings on a podcast. You know, Whitney Cummings on a podcast. You know, Whitney Cummings on a podcast. You know, if you were to list out the hundred most if you were to list out the hundred most if you were to list out the hundred most important things in romantic important things in romantic important things in romantic relationship, you would just say relationship, you would just say relationship, you would just say self-care and communication 50 times. self-care and communication 50 times. self-care and communication 50 times. And I think that's absolutely true And I think that's absolutely true And I think that's absolutely true because we need safety. We need because we need safety. We need because we need safety. We need acceptance. Yes, those are foundational, acceptance. Yes, those are foundational, acceptance. Yes, those are foundational, non-negotiables, necessary but not non-negotiables, necessary but not non-negotiables, necessary but not sufficient. But I think we need sufficient. But I think we need sufficient. But I think we need communication and self-care and those communication and self-care and those communication and self-care and those are hard and you know I'm still learning are hard and you know I'm still learning are hard and you know I'm still learning you trying to build those skills. I you trying to build those skills. I you trying to build those skills. I absolutely want a family so this is absolutely want a family so this is absolutely want a family so this is super important to me. Um and I'm super important to me. Um and I'm super important to me. Um and I'm putting a ton of work and effort into putting a ton of work and effort into putting a ton of work and effort into it. So, I didn't realize we were going
3:21it. So, I didn't realize we were going it. So, I didn't realize we were going to go into this territory. But I will to go into this territory. But I will to go into this territory. But I will say for people who are struggling with say for people who are struggling with say for people who are struggling with relationships, just know that, you know, relationships, just know that, you know, relationships, just know that, you know, you can have amazing friendships and you can have amazing friendships and you can have amazing friendships and still struggle with romantic still struggle with romantic still struggle with romantic relationships or vice versa. Again, like relationships or vice versa. Again, like relationships or vice versa. Again, like >> friendships and I have male friends and >> friendships and I have male friends and >> friendships and I have male friends and female friends, mostly male friends, but female friends, mostly male friends, but female friends, mostly male friends, but a few female friends um that I'm very a few female friends um that I'm very a few female friends um that I'm very close with. Like, it's just close with. Like, it's just close with. Like, it's just been amazing. I'm have a great been amazing. I'm have a great been amazing. I'm have a great relationship with my sister. I think I relationship with my sister. I think I relationship with my sister. I think I have a very good relationship with my have a very good relationship with my have a very good relationship with my parents, with my uncles and aunts, like parents, with my uncles and aunts, like parents, with my uncles and aunts, like like with my co-workers, my ability to like with my co-workers, my ability to like with my co-workers, my ability to pick business partners and co-workers, pick business partners and co-workers, pick business partners and co-workers, just I only hit bullse eyes. Like I love just I only hit bullse eyes. Like I love just I only hit bullse eyes. Like I love my team and we get along great and my team and we get along great and my team and we get along great and little things get worked out quickly and little things get worked out quickly and little things get worked out quickly and um but I think everyone has one or two um but I think everyone has one or two um but I think everyone has one or two areas of life where it's a bit harder areas of life where it's a bit harder areas of life where it's a bit harder and just try and learn the skills and and just try and learn the skills and and just try and learn the skills and I'm working on it like I'm working on it like I'm working on it like >> you and me both though. I I it didn't >> you and me both though. I I it didn't >> you and me both though. I I it didn't come naturally to me. My parents, come naturally to me. My parents, come naturally to me. My parents, although they never separated, I was although they never separated, I was although they never separated, I was willing them to because I was they to willing them to because I was they to willing them to because I was they to they just they hate hate's a strong they just they hate hate's a strong they just they hate hate's a strong word. It appeared that they hated each word. It appeared that they hated each word. It appeared that they hated each other. other. other. >> You know, watching my mother scream at
3:22>> You know, watching my mother scream at >> You know, watching my mother scream at my my father for seven hours a day. my my father for seven hours a day. my my father for seven hours a day. Every my mother's Nigeria and my dad's Every my mother's Nigeria and my dad's Every my mother's Nigeria and my dad's English was it was a traumatic English was it was a traumatic English was it was a traumatic experience. And the thing it left me experience. And the thing it left me experience. And the thing it left me with is this clear notion which I left with is this clear notion which I left with is this clear notion which I left the household with at 18 was that a the household with at 18 was that a the household with at 18 was that a relationship is prison. relationship is prison. relationship is prison. >> And I was it was so hardwired into me >> And I was it was so hardwired into me >> And I was it was so hardwired into me because I thought my father was in because I thought my father was in because I thought my father was in prison. So every time someone was prison. So every time someone was prison. So every time someone was interested in me growing up, I would interested in me growing up, I would interested in me growing up, I would self-reject. I would reject them. So I'd self-reject. I would reject them. So I'd self-reject. I would reject them. So I'd pursue them and then when they turned to pursue them and then when they turned to pursue them and then when they turned to me and said, "Okay, let's be in a me and said, "Okay, let's be in a me and said, "Okay, let's be in a relationship." I would persuade them out relationship." I would persuade them out relationship." I would persuade them out of it. I would tell them why this was a of it. I would tell them why this was a of it. I would tell them why this was a terrible idea because I was getting the terrible idea because I was getting the terrible idea because I was getting the feeling that I vicariously learned feeling that I vicariously learned feeling that I vicariously learned through my father. I was I'm about to through my father. I was I'm about to through my father. I was I'm about to basically lock myself in a prison where basically lock myself in a prison where basically lock myself in a prison where this person's going to sc going to be this person's going to sc going to be this person's going to sc going to be able to control [clears throat] me and able to control [clears throat] me and able to control [clears throat] me and my freedom. So I rejected relationships my freedom. So I rejected relationships my freedom. So I rejected relationships up until about 27 years old. So, you up until about 27 years old. So, you up until about 27 years old. So, you know, and then even that relationship know, and then even that relationship know, and then even that relationship wasn't a straight line because two years wasn't a straight line because two years wasn't a straight line because two years in she turns around and says she doesn't in she turns around and says she doesn't in she turns around and says she doesn't like having sex with me. Turns out she's like having sex with me. Turns out she's like having sex with me. Turns out she's got her own traumas around sex. So, we got her own traumas around sex. So, we got her own traumas around sex. So, we have a year where she's on the other have a year where she's on the other have a year where she's on the other side of the planet. I didn't have the side of the planet. I didn't have the side of the planet. I didn't have the tools, as you say, to understand how to tools, as you say, to understand how to tools, as you say, to understand how to navigate such a conversation. So, for navigate such a conversation. So, for navigate such a conversation. So, for me, I'm emasculated. I'm going maybe
3:23me, I'm emasculated. I'm going maybe me, I'm emasculated. I'm going maybe there's something wrong with me. She there's something wrong with me. She there's something wrong with me. She doesn't want to have sex with me. Dump doesn't want to have sex with me. Dump doesn't want to have sex with me. Dump her. And then, but she was the right her. And then, but she was the right her. And then, but she was the right person. And what the the tlddr of that person. And what the the tlddr of that person. And what the the tlddr of that story is a year later I end up flying to story is a year later I end up flying to story is a year later I end up flying to the other side of the world apologizing the other side of the world apologizing the other side of the world apologizing to this person for my lack of tools, my to this person for my lack of tools, my to this person for my lack of tools, my lack of communication skills cuz it was lack of communication skills cuz it was lack of communication skills cuz it was the right person at the wrong time and the right person at the wrong time and the right person at the wrong time and we did the work and that was long and it we did the work and that was long and it we did the work and that was long and it was hard and it's still hard but it's in was hard and it's still hard but it's in was hard and it's still hard but it's in an amazing place at the moment. an amazing place at the moment. an amazing place at the moment. >> Oh, you're back together. >> Oh, you're back together. >> Oh, you're back together. >> Yeah, we live together. She's flown from >> Yeah, we live together. She's flown from >> Yeah, we live together. She's flown from back from Bali two years ago. We live back from Bali two years ago. We live back from Bali two years ago. We live together. together. together. >> The best the right person for me. But >> The best the right person for me. But >> The best the right person for me. But it's hard work. it's hard work. it's hard work. >> Good for you. You like hard work. It's a >> Good for you. You like hard work. It's a >> Good for you. You like hard work. It's a wonderful story. I mean, it's a happy wonderful story. I mean, it's a happy wonderful story. I mean, it's a happy story regardless of ultimately how it story regardless of ultimately how it story regardless of ultimately how it turns out turns out turns out >> because one can sense like the real >> because one can sense like the real >> because one can sense like the real >> uh central chord of love there and um >> uh central chord of love there and um >> uh central chord of love there and um and the the desire to make it work. I and the the desire to make it work. I and the the desire to make it work. I mean, it's it's so interesting this mean, it's it's so interesting this mean, it's it's so interesting this notion of make it work. You know, again, notion of make it work. You know, again, notion of make it work. You know, again, just as being a functional adult means
3:24just as being a functional adult means just as being a functional adult means saying, "Yep, you're right about this, saying, "Yep, you're right about this, saying, "Yep, you're right about this, but no, but no, but no, >> I'm gonna stand [clears throat] my >> I'm gonna stand [clears throat] my >> I'm gonna stand [clears throat] my ground." In relationships, people say, ground." In relationships, people say, ground." In relationships, people say, "Relationships take work." Of course, "Relationships take work." Of course, "Relationships take work." Of course, they do. And then the question is, how they do. And then the question is, how they do. And then the question is, how much work relative to how much ease? And much work relative to how much ease? And much work relative to how much ease? And it's highly individual. And there's no it's highly individual. And there's no it's highly individual. And there's no handbook for this. There's no handbook handbook for this. There's no handbook handbook for this. There's no handbook for it. And and so, for it. And and so, for it. And and so, >> and the reward on offer, cuz I was >> and the reward on offer, cuz I was >> and the reward on offer, cuz I was convinced that she was the most amazing convinced that she was the most amazing convinced that she was the most amazing person I'd ever met. It just so happened person I'd ever met. It just so happened person I'd ever met. It just so happened that she turns around to me one day and that she turns around to me one day and that she turns around to me one day and says she doesn't like having sex with says she doesn't like having sex with says she doesn't like having sex with me. me. me. >> Yeah. That's rough. That's rough, right? >> Yeah. That's rough. That's rough, right? >> Yeah. That's rough. That's rough, right? Especially for a young, you have no Especially for a young, you have no Especially for a young, you have no concept of what that might be. You think concept of what that might be. You think concept of what that might be. You think maybe you're bad in bed or something. maybe you're bad in bed or something. maybe you're bad in bed or something. But as she did the work on herself and I But as she did the work on herself and I But as she did the work on herself and I did the work on myself, she unlocked a did the work on myself, she unlocked a did the work on myself, she unlocked a bunch of traumas around sex and how bunch of traumas around sex and how bunch of traumas around sex and how she'd been treated with sex as she grew she'd been treated with sex as she grew she'd been treated with sex as she grew up, which she she resolved. And she's up, which she she resolved. And she's up, which she she resolved. And she's been very public about this. This is so been very public about this. This is so been very public about this. This is so I can share it. And I did a bunch of I can share it. And I did a bunch of I can share it. And I did a bunch of work on myself and how to deal with how work on myself and how to deal with how work on myself and how to deal with how I communicate when someone says brings I communicate when someone says brings I communicate when someone says brings me such a thing. And after a year of her me such a thing. And after a year of her me such a thing. And after a year of her working on that and a year of me working working on that and a year of me working working on that and a year of me working on myself, we found ourselves in a place on myself, we found ourselves in a place on myself, we found ourselves in a place where it turns out she loves sex. Now, where it turns out she loves sex. Now, where it turns out she loves sex. Now, she's arguably more sexual than I am in she's arguably more sexual than I am in she's arguably more sexual than I am in many respects. Completely different
3:25many respects. Completely different many respects. Completely different individual, but it just require and I I individual, but it just require and I I individual, but it just require and I I I have to give the ending there cuz I have to give the ending there cuz I have to give the ending there cuz people are going to be wondering, but it people are going to be wondering, but it people are going to be wondering, but it required a lot of work on me and myself required a lot of work on me and myself required a lot of work on me and myself and where I've come from and the and where I've come from and the and where I've come from and the situation of my my family and her and situation of my my family and her and situation of my my family and her and the experience she's been through. And the experience she's been through. And the experience she's been through. And we found ourselves together now in a we found ourselves together now in a we found ourselves together now in a great place. One that still requires great place. One that still requires great place. One that still requires work, but in a great place. So, you work, but in a great place. So, you work, but in a great place. So, you know, everyone's everyone's struggling know, everyone's everyone's struggling know, everyone's everyone's struggling with some You know, my family's with some You know, my family's with some You know, my family's not great. We we're not that close. I'm not great. We we're not that close. I'm not great. We we're not that close. I'm not that close to certain members of my not that close to certain members of my not that close to certain members of my family. I've struggled with romantic family. I've struggled with romantic family. I've struggled with romantic relationships. Made all the mistakes. I relationships. Made all the mistakes. I relationships. Made all the mistakes. I struggle with with platonic struggle with with platonic struggle with with platonic relationships with my friends. I'm not relationships with my friends. I'm not relationships with my friends. I'm not the guy that's able to check in. I like the guy that's able to check in. I like the guy that's able to check in. I like being alone. You know, it is what it is. being alone. You know, it is what it is. being alone. You know, it is what it is. We're all, We're all, We're all, you know, uniquely challenged in some you know, uniquely challenged in some you know, uniquely challenged in some way. So, I've got a great amount of way. So, I've got a great amount of way. So, I've got a great amount of empathy for what you shared and I I empathy for what you shared and I I empathy for what you shared and I I really appreciate you for sharing it really appreciate you for sharing it really appreciate you for sharing it because there's so many people that can because there's so many people that can because there's so many people that can relate in various ways. I'm one of them. relate in various ways. I'm one of them. relate in various ways. I'm one of them. Um, and I think it's important because Um, and I think it's important because Um, and I think it's important because we don't talk about it enough. we don't talk about it enough. we don't talk about it enough. >> Well, thank you for sharing your >> Well, thank you for sharing your >> Well, thank you for sharing your experience and for giving me the experience and for giving me the experience and for giving me the opportunity to share a bit. Um you know opportunity to share a bit. Um you know opportunity to share a bit. Um you know the conversation started around you know
3:26the conversation started around you know the conversation started around you know hard [clears throat] circumstances and hard [clears throat] circumstances and hard [clears throat] circumstances and you know it's about taking stock of you know it's about taking stock of you know it's about taking stock of where we trust ourselves um to make the where we trust ourselves um to make the where we trust ourselves um to make the right decisions where we need work and right decisions where we need work and right decisions where we need work and yeah relationships are hard but I do yeah relationships are hard but I do yeah relationships are hard but I do think that well certainly now I'm think that well certainly now I'm think that well certainly now I'm feeling um more ease you know more feeling um more ease you know more feeling um more ease you know more seamlessness with them certainly with seamlessness with them certainly with seamlessness with them certainly with friendships as I mentioned you know we friendships as I mentioned you know we friendships as I mentioned you know we all have these areas of proficiency all have these areas of proficiency all have these areas of proficiency where we are, you know, where we find where we are, you know, where we find where we are, you know, where we find that things are kind of easier or even that things are kind of easier or even that things are kind of easier or even easy for us. They just kind of happen. easy for us. They just kind of happen. easy for us. They just kind of happen. Direct relationship between effort and Direct relationship between effort and Direct relationship between effort and outcome, right? And then these other outcome, right? And then these other outcome, right? And then these other areas where we feel like we're rolling a areas where we feel like we're rolling a areas where we feel like we're rolling a boulder uphill keeps going back and boulder uphill keeps going back and boulder uphill keeps going back and crushing us and we keep doing it. And I crushing us and we keep doing it. And I crushing us and we keep doing it. And I think that, you know, there's no simple think that, you know, there's no simple think that, you know, there's no simple or universal answer. Um but you know I or universal answer. Um but you know I or universal answer. Um but you know I think the rewards that come from a think the rewards that come from a think the rewards that come from a relationship where there's been a lot of relationship where there's been a lot of relationship where there's been a lot of hard work and things get resolved even hard work and things get resolved even hard work and things get resolved even in one little domain
3:27in one little domain in one little domain >> are so tremendous. >> are so tremendous. >> are so tremendous. >> You know I think that's really um >> You know I think that's really um >> You know I think that's really um related to this sense that like related to this sense that like related to this sense that like when things end is just so feels so when things end is just so feels so when things end is just so feels so devastating. I I really believe that devastating. I I really believe that devastating. I I really believe that things can be talked through. I really things can be talked through. I really things can be talked through. I really do. I think that um you know resent and do. I think that um you know resent and do. I think that um you know resent and anger um that they don't serve anyone. anger um that they don't serve anyone. anger um that they don't serve anyone. They really don't. And people are They really don't. And people are They really don't. And people are probably hearing this and saying, "Well, probably hearing this and saying, "Well, probably hearing this and saying, "Well, that's a self-s serving narrative." But that's a self-s serving narrative." But that's a self-s serving narrative." But really, I I'm talking about in in really, I I'm talking about in in really, I I'm talking about in in myself, too. I I don't carry any resent myself, too. I I don't carry any resent myself, too. I I don't carry any resent and any any anger. You know, I sometimes and any any anger. You know, I sometimes and any any anger. You know, I sometimes wish people had made different choices, wish people had made different choices, wish people had made different choices, but ultimately like we can't control but ultimately like we can't control but ultimately like we can't control what anyone else is going to do or say what anyone else is going to do or say what anyone else is going to do or say or think. And that's terrifying, right? or think. And that's terrifying, right? or think. And that's terrifying, right? People can really hurt us, right? They People can really hurt us, right? They People can really hurt us, right? They can really hurt us. and we would love to can really hurt us. and we would love to can really hurt us. and we would love to create a world in which we're completely create a world in which we're completely create a world in which we're completely safe. But I think that a lot of the work safe. But I think that a lot of the work safe. But I think that a lot of the work I've been doing lately is really around I've been doing lately is really around I've been doing lately is really around um you know kind of like touching back um you know kind of like touching back um you know kind of like touching back into maybe a a younger version of myself into maybe a a younger version of myself into maybe a a younger version of myself that um wasn't so walled up, wasn't um
3:28that um wasn't so walled up, wasn't um that um wasn't so walled up, wasn't um so focused on what's going to happen in so focused on what's going to happen in so focused on what's going to happen in two or three iterations of something. two or three iterations of something. two or three iterations of something. Just really being as present Just really being as present Just really being as present [clears throat] as possible. really [clears throat] as possible. really [clears throat] as possible. really focusing as it's probably become clear focusing as it's probably become clear focusing as it's probably become clear today a few times on like the amazing today a few times on like the amazing today a few times on like the amazing gifts that I have in my life right now gifts that I have in my life right now gifts that I have in my life right now that pursuing goals is great and wanting that pursuing goals is great and wanting that pursuing goals is great and wanting things is great certainly they're things things is great certainly they're things things is great certainly they're things I want and want to build mostly in the I want and want to build mostly in the I want and want to build mostly in the domain of relationships and family but domain of relationships and family but domain of relationships and family but but also just like really savoring like but also just like really savoring like but also just like really savoring like having one's health or having um the having one's health or having um the having one's health or having um the opportunity to sit down and have a opportunity to sit down and have a opportunity to sit down and have a conversation like this like like what a conversation like this like like what a conversation like this like like what a what an extraordinary life we each have what an extraordinary life we each have what an extraordinary life we each have if we really pay attention to some of if we really pay attention to some of if we really pay attention to some of these gifts I used to think that if we these gifts I used to think that if we these gifts I used to think that if we paid attention to those gifts and paid attention to those gifts and paid attention to those gifts and focused too much on gratitude that it focused too much on gratitude that it focused too much on gratitude that it would make us complacent. But all the would make us complacent. But all the would make us complacent. But all the data of course and my own experience as data of course and my own experience as data of course and my own experience as I do this more and more really emphasize I do this more and more really emphasize I do this more and more really emphasize how all it does is give us more energy, how all it does is give us more energy, how all it does is give us more energy, more anticipation of what's possible and more anticipation of what's possible and more anticipation of what's possible and the great things to come. And you know the great things to come. And you know the great things to come. And you know it can all start to sound a little it can all start to sound a little it can all start to sound a little cliche like just be happy with what
3:29cliche like just be happy with what cliche like just be happy with what you've got there. There's no just in you've got there. There's no just in you've got there. There's no just in that statement. I'm saying be happy with that statement. I'm saying be happy with that statement. I'm saying be happy with the things you've got. And from that the things you've got. And from that the things you've got. And from that state, new things emerge. More energy state, new things emerge. More energy state, new things emerge. More energy comes and you can start to really comes and you can start to really comes and you can start to really navigate forward, not just sit navigate forward, not just sit navigate forward, not just sit complacently and like stop there. complacently and like stop there. complacently and like stop there. >> Um, I think it's our essence as >> Um, I think it's our essence as >> Um, I think it's our essence as biological beings and psychological biological beings and psychological biological beings and psychological beings and beings and beings and >> if you will spiritual beings, if that's >> if you will spiritual beings, if that's >> if you will spiritual beings, if that's your your leaning too, to want um to your your leaning too, to want um to your your leaning too, to want um to want more. I think that's normal. But we want more. I think that's normal. But we want more. I think that's normal. But we have to savor what we have also. And I have to savor what we have also. And I have to savor what we have also. And I think once we savor what we have, we think once we savor what we have, we think once we savor what we have, we have more energy to want more. turn it have more energy to want more. turn it have more energy to want more. turn it and that's that's the perfect circle and that's that's the perfect circle and that's that's the perfect circle that just is I guess it's more of an that just is I guess it's more of an that just is I guess it's more of an upward spiral and here I'm sounding very upward spiral and here I'm sounding very upward spiral and here I'm sounding very abstract but I could easily and you know abstract but I could easily and you know abstract but I could easily and you know exhaustively put everyone to sleep with exhaustively put everyone to sleep with exhaustively put everyone to sleep with long mechanistic descriptions of how long mechanistic descriptions of how long mechanistic descriptions of how research on motivation or dopamine or um research on motivation or dopamine or um research on motivation or dopamine or um any number of different neural systems any number of different neural systems any number of different neural systems or physiological systems support all of or physiological systems support all of or physiological systems support all of that. I think the most important thing that. I think the most important thing that. I think the most important thing is that people are honest with is that people are honest with is that people are honest with themselves about what they can
3:30themselves about what they can themselves about what they can reasonably work on right now and to be, reasonably work on right now and to be, reasonably work on right now and to be, you know, gentle with themselves enough you know, gentle with themselves enough you know, gentle with themselves enough to like coax themselves forward, but to like coax themselves forward, but to like coax themselves forward, but occasionally scruff yourself and be occasionally scruff yourself and be occasionally scruff yourself and be like, "It's time, you know, it's time." like, "It's time, you know, it's time." like, "It's time, you know, it's time." And um I don't know, it's certainly been And um I don't know, it's certainly been And um I don't know, it's certainly been an interesting life thus far. I'm still an interesting life thus far. I'm still an interesting life thus far. I'm still navigating, you know, and um I certainly navigating, you know, and um I certainly navigating, you know, and um I certainly don't have all the answers, but as I don't have all the answers, but as I don't have all the answers, but as I learn, I try and share what I do learn. learn, I try and share what I do learn. learn, I try and share what I do learn. What has helped you on that journey? What has helped you on that journey? What has helped you on that journey? That journey to really kind of because That journey to really kind of because That journey to really kind of because the way I heard it is you're someone the way I heard it is you're someone the way I heard it is you're someone that's orientated towards pursuing your that's orientated towards pursuing your that's orientated towards pursuing your goals and you're very very driven in goals and you're very very driven in goals and you're very very driven in that regard, but you're you're kind of that regard, but you're you're kind of that regard, but you're you're kind of having to kind of maybe this is not the having to kind of maybe this is not the having to kind of maybe this is not the right word, but kind of unlearn a right word, but kind of unlearn a right word, but kind of unlearn a natural disposition and shift more natural disposition and shift more natural disposition and shift more towards another state. You talked about towards another state. You talked about towards another state. You talked about therapy there. You um what has helped? therapy there. You um what has helped? therapy there. You um what has helped? >> Well, I think you know I was forced into >> Well, I think you know I was forced into >> Well, I think you know I was forced into therapy as a way to get out of lockup. I therapy as a way to get out of lockup. I therapy as a way to get out of lockup. I had to to stay in high school. I had to had to to stay in high school. I had to had to to stay in high school. I had to go routinely and so I did. Um I think it go routinely and so I did. Um I think it go routinely and so I did. Um I think it can be very helpful provided there's can be very helpful provided there's can be very helpful provided there's good rapport, support and the person
3:31good rapport, support and the person good rapport, support and the person offers insight that lends itself to offers insight that lends itself to offers insight that lends itself to action, right? It's not just about action, right? It's not just about action, right? It's not just about finding someone to support and listen. finding someone to support and listen. finding someone to support and listen. Someone has to inspire action that makes Someone has to inspire action that makes Someone has to inspire action that makes you a better person. Okay, that and you a better person. Okay, that and you a better person. Okay, that and that's really important. So we're not that's really important. So we're not that's really important. So we're not just talking about playing with your just talking about playing with your just talking about playing with your problems, you know, a story fondling as problems, you know, a story fondling as problems, you know, a story fondling as it's sometimes called. I think one has it's sometimes called. I think one has it's sometimes called. I think one has to understand that there's a to understand that there's a to understand that there's a relationship between physiology and relationship between physiology and relationship between physiology and emotion. So if I'm waking up and I don't emotion. So if I'm waking up and I don't emotion. So if I'm waking up and I don't feel well because I didn't sleep enough, feel well because I didn't sleep enough, feel well because I didn't sleep enough, yeah, I'll do NSDR. I'll get some yeah, I'll do NSDR. I'll get some yeah, I'll do NSDR. I'll get some sunlight and I'll go exercise. And sunlight and I'll go exercise. And sunlight and I'll go exercise. And generally, I feel better. But I also generally, I feel better. But I also generally, I feel better. But I also have learned to not mask real feelings have learned to not mask real feelings have learned to not mask real feelings by simply trying to shift my physiology. by simply trying to shift my physiology. by simply trying to shift my physiology. Just as people are starting to learn, Just as people are starting to learn, Just as people are starting to learn, hey, yes, there are useful medications hey, yes, there are useful medications hey, yes, there are useful medications for dealing with mental health issues, for dealing with mental health issues, for dealing with mental health issues, but you still have to do the work. You but you still have to do the work. You but you still have to do the work. You still have to focus on building career, still have to focus on building career, still have to focus on building career, building relationships, doing the work. building relationships, doing the work. building relationships, doing the work. I think one of the most useful things I think one of the most useful things I think one of the most useful things that I've learned, again, I'm a big fan that I've learned, again, I'm a big fan that I've learned, again, I'm a big fan of Martha Beck. She's triple degree from of Martha Beck. She's triple degree from of Martha Beck. She's triple degree from Harvard, but she also has this mystical Harvard, but she also has this mystical Harvard, but she also has this mystical spiritual side that it really brings spiritual side that it really brings spiritual side that it really brings together a lot. I asked her recently, I together a lot. I asked her recently, I together a lot. I asked her recently, I said, you know, what do you do when the
3:32said, you know, what do you do when the said, you know, what do you do when the thinking mind is like trying to analyze thinking mind is like trying to analyze thinking mind is like trying to analyze something, predict things, and then you something, predict things, and then you something, predict things, and then you also have all this feeling? Which one do also have all this feeling? Which one do also have all this feeling? Which one do you rely on? And she says, "Ah, the the you rely on? And she says, "Ah, the the you rely on? And she says, "Ah, the the way to do this is you imagine way to do this is you imagine way to do this is you imagine you have your feelings in one hand and you have your feelings in one hand and you have your feelings in one hand and your thoughts in the other and they're your thoughts in the other and they're your thoughts in the other and they're kind of like in this battle. It's like, kind of like in this battle. It's like, kind of like in this battle. It's like, okay, what's going to happen next? How okay, what's going to happen next? How okay, what's going to happen next? How are they going to do this? How are are they going to do this? How are are they going to do this? How are they?" You go back and forth. Typically, they?" You go back and forth. Typically, they?" You go back and forth. Typically, people are texting and calling and people are texting and calling and people are texting and calling and looking and drinking and doing whatever looking and drinking and doing whatever looking and drinking and doing whatever it is to try and resolve this battle. it is to try and resolve this battle. it is to try and resolve this battle. The solution is to see that battle and The solution is to see that battle and The solution is to see that battle and to sit back into this third position to sit back into this third position to sit back into this third position that she calls the compassionate that she calls the compassionate that she calls the compassionate observer where you're like, "Okay, this observer where you're like, "Okay, this observer where you're like, "Okay, this is is both happening. These are both both happening. These are both both happening. These are both happening. And to sit in this third happening. And to sit in this third happening. And to sit in this third position where you realize trying to position where you realize trying to position where you realize trying to reconcile just with your thoughts or reconcile just with your thoughts or reconcile just with your thoughts or just with your emotions or settle down just with your emotions or settle down just with your emotions or settle down your emotions or settle down your your emotions or settle down your your emotions or settle down your thoughts is futile. To get in this third thoughts is futile. To get in this third thoughts is futile. To get in this third position where the acceptance of that position where the acceptance of that position where the acceptance of that suffering shows up and you're able to suffering shows up and you're able to suffering shows up and you're able to just like sit with the suffering. And just like sit with the suffering. And just like sit with the suffering. And the moment she said sit with the the moment she said sit with the the moment she said sit with the suffering, I was like no, [laughter] you suffering, I was like no, [laughter] you suffering, I was like no, [laughter] you know, I don't want that answer. But then
3:33know, I don't want that answer. But then know, I don't want that answer. But then she explained from that place of she explained from that place of she explained from that place of suffering you start to drop into what suffering you start to drop into what suffering you start to drop into what are the thoughts that make you feel a are the thoughts that make you feel a are the thoughts that make you feel a little bit looser and more relaxed in little bit looser and more relaxed in little bit looser and more relaxed in your body. What are the thoughts that your body. What are the thoughts that your body. What are the thoughts that make you feel kind of more constricted? make you feel kind of more constricted? make you feel kind of more constricted? And you just start to use that as a bit And you just start to use that as a bit And you just start to use that as a bit of a navigator and start asking of a navigator and start asking of a navigator and start asking questions like, you know, do I want to questions like, you know, do I want to questions like, you know, do I want to do this thing? Like do I want to drink do this thing? Like do I want to drink do this thing? Like do I want to drink this coffee or not? Am I just doing it this coffee or not? Am I just doing it this coffee or not? Am I just doing it compulsively? Do I want to exercise? And compulsively? Do I want to exercise? And compulsively? Do I want to exercise? And it sounds very abstract, extremely woo. it sounds very abstract, extremely woo. it sounds very abstract, extremely woo. But the brilliance of what she does and But the brilliance of what she does and But the brilliance of what she does and the brilliance of that scenario is that the brilliance of that scenario is that the brilliance of that scenario is that it brings together all the neuroscience it brings together all the neuroscience it brings together all the neuroscience that we know. We have a thinking that we know. We have a thinking that we know. We have a thinking analytic part of the brain that does analytic part of the brain that does analytic part of the brain that does what I call DPOS's, duration, path, what I call DPOS's, duration, path, what I call DPOS's, duration, path, outcome analysis. We also have emotional outcome analysis. We also have emotional outcome analysis. We also have emotional states of the brain, the libic system states of the brain, the libic system states of the brain, the libic system it's sometimes called, but it's a bunch it's sometimes called, but it's a bunch it's sometimes called, but it's a bunch of other areas too. And it doesn't know of other areas too. And it doesn't know of other areas too. And it doesn't know the clock or the calendar. As Paul Kiy, the clock or the calendar. As Paul Kiy, the clock or the calendar. As Paul Kiy, brilliant psychiatrist says, feelings brilliant psychiatrist says, feelings brilliant psychiatrist says, feelings don't know that it's today in July 2024. don't know that it's today in July 2024. don't know that it's today in July 2024. It thinks you're eight years old. That It thinks you're eight years old. That It thinks you're eight years old. That the lyic system, your emotions, they the lyic system, your emotions, they the lyic system, your emotions, they don't know the clock or the calendar. It don't know the clock or the calendar. It
3:34don't know the clock or the calendar. It doesn't know how old you are. It just doesn't know how old you are. It just doesn't know how old you are. It just knows you and circumstances and feeling. knows you and circumstances and feeling. knows you and circumstances and feeling. So, being able to step back from all of So, being able to step back from all of So, being able to step back from all of that is really what being a healthy that is really what being a healthy that is really what being a healthy human being is about. And then realizing human being is about. And then realizing human being is about. And then realizing you're suffering, like in that battle, you're suffering, like in that battle, you're suffering, like in that battle, you're suffering. And when you relax you're suffering. And when you relax you're suffering. And when you relax that a little bit and you go, okay, I'm that a little bit and you go, okay, I'm that a little bit and you go, okay, I'm not going to force myself to suffer as not going to force myself to suffer as not going to force myself to suffer as much now. What feels right? what feels much now. What feels right? what feels much now. What feels right? what feels right right now for like the next five right right now for like the next five right right now for like the next five minutes. Well, then you can navigate the minutes. Well, then you can navigate the minutes. Well, then you can navigate the next five minutes. Maybe it's take a next five minutes. Maybe it's take a next five minutes. Maybe it's take a nap. Maybe it's have a meal. Maybe it's nap. Maybe it's have a meal. Maybe it's nap. Maybe it's have a meal. Maybe it's do a little bit of work. Maybe it's you do a little bit of work. Maybe it's you do a little bit of work. Maybe it's you don't know and you just sit there. But don't know and you just sit there. But don't know and you just sit there. But then five minutes later, you're able to then five minutes later, you're able to then five minutes later, you're able to pick the next best choice and the next pick the next best choice and the next pick the next best choice and the next best choice and pretty soon you're off best choice and pretty soon you're off best choice and pretty soon you're off and on your way because so often we get and on your way because so often we get and on your way because so often we get avalanched by our feelings or our avalanched by our feelings or our avalanched by our feelings or our thoughts or we can't sleep and it's just thoughts or we can't sleep and it's just thoughts or we can't sleep and it's just like ah and people are losing their like ah and people are losing their like ah and people are losing their minds and they're online looking for a minds and they're online looking for a minds and they're online looking for a solution or they use distraction, solution or they use distraction, solution or they use distraction, alcohol, mindless scrolling. By the way, alcohol, mindless scrolling. By the way, alcohol, mindless scrolling. By the way, I love social media. I teach on social I love social media. I teach on social I love social media. I teach on social media and I learn on social media from media and I learn on social media from media and I learn on social media from your podcast and Joe's podcast and Lex's your podcast and Joe's podcast and Lex's your podcast and Joe's podcast and Lex's podcast and Tim's and on and on. So, I'm
3:35podcast and Tim's and on and on. So, I'm podcast and Tim's and on and on. So, I'm not demonizing it, but mindless not demonizing it, but mindless not demonizing it, but mindless consumption, inebriation, consumption, inebriation, consumption, inebriation, numbing ourselves, or forcing ourselves numbing ourselves, or forcing ourselves numbing ourselves, or forcing ourselves to do things that are not in service to to do things that are not in service to to do things that are not in service to our well-being, none of that is good. our well-being, none of that is good. our well-being, none of that is good. What's good is being able to sit with What's good is being able to sit with What's good is being able to sit with it. And in doing that, I've started to it. And in doing that, I've started to it. And in doing that, I've started to realize that you get back to what she realize that you get back to what she realize that you get back to what she calls, and again, the language sounds calls, and again, the language sounds calls, and again, the language sounds woo, but who cares? She's the one with woo, but who cares? She's the one with woo, but who cares? She's the one with three degrees from Harvard. So call her three degrees from Harvard. So call her three degrees from Harvard. So call her whatever you want, you know, whatever you want, you know, whatever you want, you know, [laughter and gasps] [laughter and gasps] [laughter and gasps] is the what she calls essential self, is the what she calls essential self, is the what she calls essential self, which I think refers to our own unique which I think refers to our own unique which I think refers to our own unique wiring. What really feels right to us. wiring. What really feels right to us. wiring. What really feels right to us. Trusting in our own goodness, trusting Trusting in our own goodness, trusting Trusting in our own goodness, trusting that if we just navigate forward from that if we just navigate forward from that if we just navigate forward from that compassionate observer place that that compassionate observer place that that compassionate observer place that we are going to be in some cases we need we are going to be in some cases we need we are going to be in some cases we need to be fierce, we need to be a warrior. to be fierce, we need to be a warrior. to be fierce, we need to be a warrior. In other cases, we need to be soft and In other cases, we need to be soft and In other cases, we need to be soft and compassionate. And that we can be all of compassionate. And that we can be all of compassionate. And that we can be all of those things depending on what the the those things depending on what the the those things depending on what the the situation calls for. And that we can situation calls for. And that we can situation calls for. And that we can just like sit back and move forward and just like sit back and move forward and just like sit back and move forward and that we're going to be okay. In fact, that we're going to be okay. In fact, that we're going to be okay. In fact, we're going to be better than okay. And
3:36we're going to be better than okay. And we're going to be better than okay. And that when we bring that stance, that that when we bring that stance, that that when we bring that stance, that like calm, energetic stance to things like calm, energetic stance to things like calm, energetic stance to things and other people, we also have a ton to and other people, we also have a ton to and other people, we also have a ton to give, we can be in so much service. This give, we can be in so much service. This give, we can be in so much service. This is one of the reasons I think people is one of the reasons I think people is one of the reasons I think people love Rick. I think about Rick a lot. love Rick. I think about Rick a lot. love Rick. I think about Rick a lot. Rick Rubin's a close friend and I'm very Rick Rubin's a close friend and I'm very Rick Rubin's a close friend and I'm very blessed. And it's not because he's Rick blessed. And it's not because he's Rick blessed. And it's not because he's Rick Rubin, the famous musician. In fact, I Rubin, the famous musician. In fact, I Rubin, the famous musician. In fact, I know zero minus one about hip-hop. Oh, know zero minus one about hip-hop. Oh, know zero minus one about hip-hop. Oh, yeah. I just don't It wasn't a genre I yeah. I just don't It wasn't a genre I yeah. I just don't It wasn't a genre I followed. I like some of it, but but one followed. I like some of it, but but one followed. I like some of it, but but one thing is that when Rick shows up, he's thing is that when Rick shows up, he's thing is that when Rick shows up, he's just like there. He's super present. just like there. He's super present. just like there. He's super present. He's not there to give you anything, but He's not there to give you anything, but He's not there to give you anything, but he gives. And he's not there to take he gives. And he's not there to take he gives. And he's not there to take anything. You He's just there. And I anything. You He's just there. And I anything. You He's just there. And I think that's why people love him. I think that's why people love him. I think that's why people love him. I think that's why people love him. Yes, think that's why people love him. Yes, think that's why people love him. Yes, he's been super successful in all these he's been super successful in all these he's been super successful in all these different domains. And when people try different domains. And when people try different domains. And when people try and poke at Rick, that's something that and poke at Rick, that's something that and poke at Rick, that's something that really pisses me off. want to really get really pisses me off. want to really get really pisses me off. want to really get me worked up, try and pick on one of my me worked up, try and pick on one of my me worked up, try and pick on one of my close friends. Like I that's a place close friends. Like I that's a place close friends. Like I that's a place where I am like, you know, come at me, where I am like, you know, come at me, where I am like, you know, come at me, attack me all day. And you people do, attack me all day. And you people do, attack me all day. And you people do, but if you try and attack people I know
3:37but if you try and attack people I know but if you try and attack people I know in their true goodness, Lex or Rick or in their true goodness, Lex or Rick or in their true goodness, Lex or Rick or any number of my different friends, any number of my different friends, any number of my different friends, famous or not, like that's when I'm famous or not, like that's when I'm famous or not, like that's when I'm going to, you know, that's when a side going to, you know, that's when a side going to, you know, that's when a side of me comes out that frankly I I'm proud of me comes out that frankly I I'm proud of me comes out that frankly I I'm proud of. like I'm going to hit you and I'm of. like I'm going to hit you and I'm of. like I'm going to hit you and I'm going to hit you hard. I'm going to be going to hit you hard. I'm going to be going to hit you hard. I'm going to be fair, but like you can't do that because fair, but like you can't do that because fair, but like you can't do that because these are really good people trying to these are really good people trying to these are really good people trying to do the best they can in the world. And do the best they can in the world. And do the best they can in the world. And this is true me protecting my sister. this is true me protecting my sister. this is true me protecting my sister. You know, I'll also be the first if a You know, I'll also be the first if a You know, I'll also be the first if a friend is out of line to say something. friend is out of line to say something. friend is out of line to say something. But the people I'm referring to here, But the people I'm referring to here, But the people I'm referring to here, they show up with like all their they show up with like all their they show up with like all their goodness. Joe's the same way. And people goodness. Joe's the same way. And people goodness. Joe's the same way. And people talk about Joe and I'm like, talk about Joe and I'm like, talk about Joe and I'm like, [clears throat] people have tried to get [clears throat] people have tried to get [clears throat] people have tried to get me to talk about him. Reporters me to talk about him. Reporters me to talk about him. Reporters have called me to try and set me up like have called me to try and set me up like have called me to try and set me up like a trap, a snare trap, to say things a trap, a snare trap, to say things a trap, a snare trap, to say things about him. No chance. He's done things about him. No chance. He's done things about him. No chance. He's done things that I've seen that had nothing to do that I've seen that had nothing to do that I've seen that had nothing to do with me in service to others that are with me in service to others that are with me in service to others that are completely quiet, that no one will ever completely quiet, that no one will ever completely quiet, that no one will ever hear about that absolutely tell me that hear about that absolutely tell me that hear about that absolutely tell me that he is a huge-hearted person who cares
3:38he is a huge-hearted person who cares he is a huge-hearted person who cares about the world and takes care of people about the world and takes care of people about the world and takes care of people close to him and [clears throat] far close to him and [clears throat] far close to him and [clears throat] far away from him without the expectation of away from him without the expectation of away from him without the expectation of anything in return. And I'm not saying anything in return. And I'm not saying anything in return. And I'm not saying this so that he likes me more. I'm this so that he likes me more. I'm this so that he likes me more. I'm saying this because it's true and I saying this because it's true and I saying this because it's true and I think that you know think that you know think that you know Martha Beck's another one or people that Martha Beck's another one or people that Martha Beck's another one or people that like they just want to give and so when like they just want to give and so when like they just want to give and so when I see people attacking people and I can I see people attacking people and I can I see people attacking people and I can sense this about you we're getting to sense this about you we're getting to sense this about you we're getting to know one another here like the fact that know one another here like the fact that know one another here like the fact that you try and attack someone whose you try and attack someone whose you try and attack someone whose fundamental goal is to try and serve the fundamental goal is to try and serve the fundamental goal is to try and serve the world build things to serve like and world build things to serve like and world build things to serve like and there are a few things that get my there are a few things that get my there are a few things that get my adrenaline going like that but that's adrenaline going like that but that's adrenaline going like that but that's not okay. It's not okay. And I think not okay. It's not okay. And I think not okay. It's not okay. And I think it's really important that we stand up it's really important that we stand up it's really important that we stand up for people who are not known either. We for people who are not known either. We for people who are not known either. We stand up for them and that we say that's stand up for them and that we say that's stand up for them and that we say that's not okay. You can't take cheap shots not okay. You can't take cheap shots not okay. You can't take cheap shots like that. And so like that. And so like that. And so >> I think times are changing there. >> I think times are changing there. >> I think times are changing there. >> Times are changing. You know, the um I >> Times are changing. You know, the um I >> Times are changing. You know, the um I don't have anything against traditional don't have anything against traditional don't have anything against traditional media. I see the way they capitalize on media. I see the way they capitalize on media. I see the way they capitalize on things. They'll put different names and
3:39things. They'll put different names and things. They'll put different names and URLs and try and bring clicks and stuff. URLs and try and bring clicks and stuff. URLs and try and bring clicks and stuff. Look, they're just trying to make an Look, they're just trying to make an Look, they're just trying to make an income. Um, and I think some of them income. Um, and I think some of them income. Um, and I think some of them presumably are good people just trying presumably are good people just trying presumably are good people just trying to do their thing. What I love about to do their thing. What I love about to do their thing. What I love about podcasters, podcasters, podcasters, what I love about the early, you know, what I love about the early, you know, what I love about the early, you know, the skateboarders I knew from the the skateboarders I knew from the the skateboarders I knew from the skateboard era, some I still touch with skateboard era, some I still touch with skateboard era, some I still touch with now, um, punk rockers, the people in now, um, punk rockers, the people in now, um, punk rockers, the people in creative areas, artists and musicians creative areas, artists and musicians creative areas, artists and musicians and poets, is like they didn't get into and poets, is like they didn't get into and poets, is like they didn't get into it because they thought people would it because they thought people would it because they thought people would like them or they'd make a lot of money. like them or they'd make a lot of money. like them or they'd make a lot of money. And a lot of times they take ridicule. And a lot of times they take ridicule. And a lot of times they take ridicule. They got into it because it's who they They got into it because it's who they They got into it because it's who they are. It's their essence. They're just are. It's their essence. They're just are. It's their essence. They're just being them. And I think we can really being them. And I think we can really being them. And I think we can really tell when somebody's just being tell when somebody's just being tell when somebody's just being themselves. It's like their real essence themselves. It's like their real essence themselves. It's like their real essence just brought forward and they're taking just brought forward and they're taking just brought forward and they're taking fire and they're taking shrapnel and fire and they're taking shrapnel and fire and they're taking shrapnel and they're and they do it anyway. You know, they're and they do it anyway. You know, they're and they do it anyway. You know, I'm I know he's very popular now. Um I'm I know he's very popular now. Um I'm I know he's very popular now. Um even though he's dead. Um but I've even though he's dead. Um but I've even though he's dead. Um but I've always loved Jean Michelle Bosia's work. always loved Jean Michelle Bosia's work. always loved Jean Michelle Bosia's work. And if you watch that movie, I don't
3:40And if you watch that movie, I don't And if you watch that movie, I don't know if you've seen the movie Bosia, not know if you've seen the movie Bosia, not know if you've seen the movie Bosia, not the the documentary, but amazing movie. the the documentary, but amazing movie. the the documentary, but amazing movie. It's got Dennis Hopper, Parker Posey, um It's got Dennis Hopper, Parker Posey, um It's got Dennis Hopper, Parker Posey, um David Bowie plays um Andy Warhol. It's David Bowie plays um Andy Warhol. It's David Bowie plays um Andy Warhol. It's an amazing cast. William Defoe. It's an amazing cast. William Defoe. It's an amazing cast. William Defoe. It's just an amazing cast. And there's this just an amazing cast. And there's this just an amazing cast. And there's this incredible scene where Jean Michichelle incredible scene where Jean Michichelle incredible scene where Jean Michichelle and Benio Del Toro who I believe was and Benio Del Toro who I believe was and Benio Del Toro who I believe was playing Jean Michichelle's friend who playing Jean Michichelle's friend who playing Jean Michichelle's friend who was Vincent Gallow. Jean Michichelle was Vincent Gallow. Jean Michichelle was Vincent Gallow. Jean Michichelle says to him, he goes, "Hey Benny, how says to him, he goes, "Hey Benny, how says to him, he goes, "Hey Benny, how long do you think it takes to get long do you think it takes to get long do you think it takes to get famous?" And the answer that Benio Del famous?" And the answer that Benio Del famous?" And the answer that Benio Del Toro gives him is amazing. He talks Toro gives him is amazing. He talks Toro gives him is amazing. He talks about how fame ultimately just brings a about how fame ultimately just brings a about how fame ultimately just brings a lot of attack and how that can really lot of attack and how that can really lot of attack and how that can really collapse the artist. And it's it's a collapse the artist. And it's it's a collapse the artist. And it's it's a beautiful two-minute riff on YouTube beautiful two-minute riff on YouTube beautiful two-minute riff on YouTube that everyone should go watch. And if that everyone should go watch. And if that everyone should go watch. And if anyone out there thinks they want to be anyone out there thinks they want to be anyone out there thinks they want to be famous, I'll tell you, you do not want famous, I'll tell you, you do not want famous, I'll tell you, you do not want to be famous. Famous takes away your to be famous. Famous takes away your to be famous. Famous takes away your freedom. People say they want to be freedom. People say they want to be freedom. People say they want to be famous. You absolutely don't. What you famous. You absolutely don't. What you famous. You absolutely don't. What you want is you want a friend or friends want is you want a friend or friends want is you want a friend or friends that you love and that love you. You
3:41that you love and that love you. You that you love and that love you. You want to have enough resources plus a bit want to have enough resources plus a bit want to have enough resources plus a bit more so that you feel safe, right? more so that you feel safe, right? more so that you feel safe, right? Anyone that says you only need $70,000 a Anyone that says you only need $70,000 a Anyone that says you only need $70,000 a year in order to be happy because some year in order to be happy because some year in order to be happy because some study said that You need study said that You need study said that You need enough money so that you feel safe about enough money so that you feel safe about enough money so that you feel safe about your present and your future. That your present and your future. That your present and your future. That number differs for different people. number differs for different people. number differs for different people. Okay? So that's a study. I don't care Okay? So that's a study. I don't care Okay? So that's a study. I don't care what the data say. Like look at the real what the data say. Like look at the real what the data say. Like look at the real world. And usually it's a rich person world. And usually it's a rich person world. And usually it's a rich person saying you only need that amount of saying you only need that amount of saying you only need that amount of money. By the way, money. By the way, money. By the way, you need some sense of passion or you need some sense of passion or you need some sense of passion or connection to the world and you need a connection to the world and you need a connection to the world and you need a sense of freedom that you can be you and sense of freedom that you can be you and sense of freedom that you can be you and that you won't get attacked for it. We that you won't get attacked for it. We that you won't get attacked for it. We know this throughout history. This has know this throughout history. This has know this throughout history. This has been proven over and over again. So fame been proven over and over again. So fame been proven over and over again. So fame is Like fame takes away your is Like fame takes away your is Like fame takes away your freedom. the rest of it, social freedom. the rest of it, social freedom. the rest of it, social connection, some resources, a connection connection, some resources, a connection connection, some resources, a connection to some passionate exploration, to some passionate exploration, to some passionate exploration, curiosity, even if it's very private and curiosity, even if it's very private and curiosity, even if it's very private and no one ever sees it. Like those things no one ever sees it. Like those things no one ever sees it. Like those things are are really what make life rich. It
3:42are are really what make life rich. It are are really what make life rich. It really really does. And I have fantasies really really does. And I have fantasies really really does. And I have fantasies about just disappearing, taking a small about just disappearing, taking a small about just disappearing, taking a small group off to some hidden village and we group off to some hidden village and we group off to some hidden village and we do our thing. But, but I know myself too do our thing. But, but I know myself too do our thing. But, but I know myself too well. I'd want to um I'd want to connect well. I'd want to um I'd want to connect well. I'd want to um I'd want to connect with the world more. It's just in my with the world more. It's just in my with the world more. It's just in my nature to want to do that. So, I suppose nature to want to do that. So, I suppose nature to want to do that. So, I suppose I'm kind of hosed and I suppose the I'm kind of hosed and I suppose the I'm kind of hosed and I suppose the world's kind of stuck with me until they world's kind of stuck with me until they world's kind of stuck with me until they aren't. [laughter] aren't. [laughter] aren't. [laughter] >> But no, I I I have those fantasies as >> But no, I I I have those fantasies as >> But no, I I I have those fantasies as well. And I I arrive at the same well. And I I arrive at the same well. And I I arrive at the same conclusion that I'd eventually do conclusion that I'd eventually do conclusion that I'd eventually do something in the village which would something in the village which would something in the village which would bring me back to society and then bring bring me back to society and then bring bring me back to society and then bring me back to probably sitting in this me back to probably sitting in this me back to probably sitting in this chair. [laughter] chair. [laughter] chair. [laughter] >> Well, and you know, I've thought about >> Well, and you know, I've thought about >> Well, and you know, I've thought about getting some people together and we getting some people together and we getting some people together and we should do this. We could get a property, should do this. We could get a property, should do this. We could get a property, put a bunch of houses, put a gym, a put a bunch of houses, put a gym, a put a bunch of houses, put a gym, a sauna, could have a podcast studio. But sauna, could have a podcast studio. But sauna, could have a podcast studio. But guess what? They'd call it a cult. guess what? They'd call it a cult. guess what? They'd call it a cult. [laughter] They'd be like, "They started [laughter] They'd be like, "They started [laughter] They'd be like, "They started a cult, right? They'd find something, be a cult, right? They'd find something, be a cult, right? They'd find something, be like, they started a cult." Because I like, they started a cult." Because I like, they started a cult." Because I think to people that are not passionate think to people that are not passionate think to people that are not passionate creators, and again, I'm not just creators, and again, I'm not just creators, and again, I'm not just talking about podcasters, but that talking about podcasters, but that talking about podcasters, but that aren't passionate creators, they don't aren't passionate creators, they don't aren't passionate creators, they don't understand, like they don't understand understand, like they don't understand understand, like they don't understand that that certain people just need to create.
3:43certain people just need to create. certain people just need to create. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And God bless them because we need >> And God bless them because we need >> And God bless them because we need somebody to write articles from a somebody to write articles from a somebody to write articles from a perspective that they don't understand perspective that they don't understand perspective that they don't understand to get other people to think things that to get other people to think things that to get other people to think things that aren't true because that's what they aren't true because that's what they aren't true because that's what they need to do. like they serve an important need to do. like they serve an important need to do. like they serve an important role like in the aquarium of life on the role like in the aquarium of life on the role like in the aquarium of life on the coral reef of life you need the little coral reef of life you need the little coral reef of life you need the little like horseshoe crabs working there when like horseshoe crabs working there when like horseshoe crabs working there when you say like well what's the purpose you say like well what's the purpose you say like well what's the purpose it's part of an ecosystem it's somehow it's part of an ecosystem it's somehow it's part of an ecosystem it's somehow indirectly serves the rest although indirectly serves the rest although indirectly serves the rest although sometimes it's kind of hard to tell and sometimes it's kind of hard to tell and sometimes it's kind of hard to tell and as we head into this election as as we as we head into this election as as we as we head into this election as as we head into like really uncertain times I head into like really uncertain times I head into like really uncertain times I think we tend to go the media or the think we tend to go the media or the think we tend to go the media or the podcasters or the the look everyone's podcasters or the the look everyone's podcasters or the the look everyone's doing the best they can with what doing the best they can with what doing the best they can with what they've got it's just some people are they've got it's just some people are they've got it's just some people are working a little bit harder to be kind working a little bit harder to be kind working a little bit harder to be kind and benevolent and giving and and benevolent and giving and and benevolent and giving and acknowledging we're all human and others acknowledging we're all human and others acknowledging we're all human and others are like pointing fingers. So, are like pointing fingers. So, are like pointing fingers. So, >> of all the protocols you've shared, it >> of all the protocols you've shared, it >> of all the protocols you've shared, it seems like maybe the most important is seems like maybe the most important is seems like maybe the most important is friendship. friendship. friendship. >> Send that morning text. Find somebody >> Send that morning text. Find somebody >> Send that morning text. Find somebody that you can communicate with that will that you can communicate with that will that you can communicate with that will communicate with you that you trust. You communicate with you that you trust. You communicate with you that you trust. You don't have to share a ton. I don't want don't have to share a ton. I don't want
3:44don't have to share a ton. I don't want to give the impression that I sit there to give the impression that I sit there to give the impression that I sit there with my friends and like share all the with my friends and like share all the with my friends and like share all the inner workings of my mind and what's inner workings of my mind and what's inner workings of my mind and what's going on, you know? I mean, that's why I going on, you know? I mean, that's why I going on, you know? I mean, that's why I have this notebook so I don't have to do have this notebook so I don't have to do have this notebook so I don't have to do that. It's like I got stuff in here I that. It's like I got stuff in here I that. It's like I got stuff in here I never want anyone to see, you know? But never want anyone to see, you know? But never want anyone to see, you know? But yeah, find a friend. Like friendship is yeah, find a friend. Like friendship is yeah, find a friend. Like friendship is huge and and it's the start of all great huge and and it's the start of all great huge and and it's the start of all great things, right? It it's the reflection of things, right? It it's the reflection of things, right? It it's the reflection of all great things inside of us, right? all great things inside of us, right? all great things inside of us, right? It's not the complete picture. Romantic It's not the complete picture. Romantic It's not the complete picture. Romantic relationship for many, for most is relationship for many, for most is relationship for many, for most is really important. Get a dog, get a fish, really important. Get a dog, get a fish, really important. Get a dog, get a fish, get a plant. Sure. But I think get a plant. Sure. But I think get a plant. Sure. But I think friendship really is like the most friendship really is like the most friendship really is like the most important thing that all of us can important thing that all of us can important thing that all of us can really focus on right now. Aside from really focus on right now. Aside from really focus on right now. Aside from partnership and children, because of partnership and children, because of partnership and children, because of course children need us and course children need us and course children need us and >> um they need our our attention and our >> um they need our our attention and our >> um they need our our attention and our support, but friendship is is super support, but friendship is is super support, but friendship is is super powerful. And rather than talk about the powerful. And rather than talk about the powerful. And rather than talk about the isolation crisis, the loneliness crisis, isolation crisis, the loneliness crisis, isolation crisis, the loneliness crisis, I'd rather talk about some solutions. I'd rather talk about some solutions. I'd rather talk about some solutions. And I think friendship maybe even just a And I think friendship maybe even just a And I think friendship maybe even just a morning text back and forth. Good
3:45morning text back and forth. Good morning text back and forth. Good morning. Good morning. How'd you sleep? morning. Good morning. How'd you sleep? morning. Good morning. How'd you sleep? Pretty good. Not well. Okay. Bye. Next Pretty good. Not well. Okay. Bye. Next Pretty good. Not well. Okay. Bye. Next day it's there. that being able to rely day it's there. that being able to rely day it's there. that being able to rely on that like clockwork, like the sun on that like clockwork, like the sun on that like clockwork, like the sun rising and setting each day, you can rising and setting each day, you can rising and setting each day, you can count on that. It's just brings a lot of count on that. It's just brings a lot of count on that. It's just brings a lot of peace. It'll make you a better version peace. It'll make you a better version peace. It'll make you a better version of yourself. of yourself. of yourself. >> Do your friends know what you mean to >> Do your friends know what you mean to >> Do your friends know what you mean to them having gone through those difficult them having gone through those difficult them having gone through those difficult moments? Did did you were you were you moments? Did did you were you were you moments? Did did you were you were you able to articulate to them how much you able to articulate to them how much you able to articulate to them how much you appreciated them for that? appreciated them for that? appreciated them for that? >> I'll get emotional [clears throat] >> I'll get emotional [clears throat] >> I'll get emotional [clears throat] again. I I don't I don't think they again. I I don't I don't think they again. I I don't I don't think they could know. You know, it's it's like could know. You know, it's it's like could know. You know, it's it's like there's one friend in particular. Um there's one friend in particular. Um there's one friend in particular. Um there's a guy who's actually very there's a guy who's actually very there's a guy who's actually very prominent in the skateboarding prominent in the skateboarding prominent in the skateboarding community. He he's quiet in that community. He he's quiet in that community. He he's quiet in that community. I I'll say his name because community. I I'll say his name because community. I I'll say his name because he's so humble, you know, he'll never he's so humble, you know, he'll never he's so humble, you know, he'll never say it for himself. His name is Jim say it for himself. His name is Jim say it for himself. His name is Jim Thibo. And when I was 14 years old, Jim, Thibo. And when I was 14 years old, Jim, Thibo. And when I was 14 years old, Jim, who now runs a big company called who now runs a big company called who now runs a big company called Deluxe, which is a bunch of companies, Deluxe, which is a bunch of companies, Deluxe, which is a bunch of companies, and he he's kind of the he's kind of the and he he's kind of the he's kind of the and he he's kind of the he's kind of the mayor of the whole sport. He he's um mayor of the whole sport. He he's um mayor of the whole sport. He he's um back then, I remember I was 14. This was
3:46back then, I remember I was 14. This was back then, I remember I was 14. This was after I got out of this place and um he after I got out of this place and um he after I got out of this place and um he rolled up to me at Embaradero and he sat rolled up to me at Embaradero and he sat rolled up to me at Embaradero and he sat next to me. He just like sat next to me, next to me. He just like sat next to me, next to me. He just like sat next to me, gave me a coffee and some stickers and gave me a coffee and some stickers and gave me a coffee and some stickers and he was like, "What's up, man?" And he's he was like, "What's up, man?" And he's he was like, "What's up, man?" And he's probably about 10 years older than I am. probably about 10 years older than I am. probably about 10 years older than I am. And we started talking and he gave me And we started talking and he gave me And we started talking and he gave me one of his books. Sorry, Jim. I'm going one of his books. Sorry, Jim. I'm going one of his books. Sorry, Jim. I'm going to embarrass him. He had these poetry to embarrass him. He had these poetry to embarrass him. He had these poetry books. A great book. I still have it. books. A great book. I still have it. books. A great book. I still have it. It's called Loose Change. And he had It's called Loose Change. And he had It's called Loose Change. And he had another one called Do the Distance. And another one called Do the Distance. And another one called Do the Distance. And he goes, he goes, he goes, "You should write." "You should write." "You should write." Okay. And I started writing. I started Okay. And I started writing. I started Okay. And I started writing. I started keeping a journal. And that one keeping a journal. And that one keeping a journal. And that one interaction carried me through so many interaction carried me through so many interaction carried me through so many hard times. Now, years later, I had a hard times. Now, years later, I had a hard times. Now, years later, I had a really hard circumstance. Things were really hard circumstance. Things were really hard circumstance. Things were going well in my life. I was making going well in my life. I was making going well in my life. I was making progress on a certain front that I've progress on a certain front that I've progress on a certain front that I've been challenged with with for some time. been challenged with with for some time. been challenged with with for some time. And then one day, just brack everything came crashing down. And like magic, Jim showed up. I'm not
3:47And like magic, Jim showed up. I'm not And like magic, Jim showed up. I'm not I'm not saying he got a call from the I'm not saying he got a call from the I'm not saying he got a call from the universe. Somebody called him and he universe. Somebody called him and he universe. Somebody called him and he showed up and he just sat with me. Now showed up and he just sat with me. Now showed up and he just sat with me. Now I'm an adult at this point. He just like I'm an adult at this point. He just like I'm an adult at this point. He just like sat with me and um [clears throat] sat with me and um [clears throat] sat with me and um [clears throat] and I hear from him every morning, you and I hear from him every morning, you and I hear from him every morning, you know, and I still text him every know, and I still text him every know, and I still text him every morning. Texted me today. He's here in morning. Texted me today. He's here in morning. Texted me today. He's here in LA today. We won't see each other. So LA today. We won't see each other. So LA today. We won't see each other. So he's busy. I'm busy. We got work. I he's busy. I'm busy. We got work. I he's busy. I'm busy. We got work. I would love to see him, but he's busy. would love to see him, but he's busy. would love to see him, but he's busy. and I respect that he's busy and he and I respect that he's busy and he and I respect that he's busy and he respects that I'm busy and it's like wow respects that I'm busy and it's like wow respects that I'm busy and it's like wow you know 14 and then 40 some years and you know 14 and then 40 some years and you know 14 and then 40 some years and he's there again and I like to think he's there again and I like to think he's there again and I like to think I've been there for him too you know and I've been there for him too you know and I've been there for him too you know and you know when I was that kid at some you know when I was that kid at some you know when I was that kid at some point he knew in some way he knew point he knew in some way he knew point he knew in some way he knew exactly what I needed I needed those exactly what I needed I needed those exactly what I needed I needed those books I needed something and you know books I needed something and you know books I needed something and you know even when I tell him now about that he even when I tell him now about that he even when I tell him now about that he goes oh no that poetry is so bad you goes oh no that poetry is so bad you goes oh no that poetry is so bad you know he's embarrassed about that and I'm know he's embarrassed about that and I'm know he's embarrassed about that and I'm think no man you like saved my life with think no man you like saved my life with think no man you like saved my life with that stuff and I kept them. I still have that stuff and I kept them. I still have that stuff and I kept them. I still have them. And so I think he must have like
3:48them. And so I think he must have like them. And so I think he must have like sensed that I was a really like feeling sensed that I was a really like feeling sensed that I was a really like feeling person and I was really in a trench. And person and I was really in a trench. And person and I was really in a trench. And we've seen a lot of our friends go dead we've seen a lot of our friends go dead we've seen a lot of our friends go dead or in jail and in trouble. We've seen a or in jail and in trouble. We've seen a or in jail and in trouble. We've seen a lot of people do extremely well. Jim's lot of people do extremely well. Jim's lot of people do extremely well. Jim's an amazing guy because he's the one who an amazing guy because he's the one who an amazing guy because he's the one who calls the decisions on a lot of things calls the decisions on a lot of things calls the decisions on a lot of things in the kind of social millu of in the kind of social millu of in the kind of social millu of skateboarding. He's taken a lot of skateboarding. He's taken a lot of skateboarding. He's taken a lot of I don't want to get into the details, I don't want to get into the details, I don't want to get into the details, but he's helped evolve skateboarding in but he's helped evolve skateboarding in but he's helped evolve skateboarding in some ways that it was very resistant to some ways that it was very resistant to some ways that it was very resistant to evolving. You can largely credit the evolving. You can largely credit the evolving. You can largely credit the true diversity in that sport. You know, true diversity in that sport. You know, true diversity in that sport. You know, people talk about diversity, but look at people talk about diversity, but look at people talk about diversity, but look at that sport. Look at the number of that sport. Look at the number of that sport. Look at the number of different races. Look at the fact that different races. Look at the fact that different races. Look at the fact that you've got straight kids, gay kids, you've got straight kids, gay kids, you've got straight kids, gay kids, trans kids. You've got room for the kids trans kids. You've got room for the kids trans kids. You've got room for the kids who have parents and the parent who have parents and the parent who have parents and the parent involvement. You've got kids that don't involvement. You've got kids that don't involvement. You've got kids that don't have have any parents. You've got people have have any parents. You've got people have have any parents. You've got people trying to help each other get sober and trying to help each other get sober and trying to help each other get sober and stay sober. You got people like Jim has stay sober. You got people like Jim has stay sober. You got people like Jim has taken so much taken so much taken so much publicly on the chin maintaining publicly on the chin maintaining publicly on the chin maintaining complete silence about his rationale
3:49complete silence about his rationale complete silence about his rationale except with one mission in mind which is except with one mission in mind which is except with one mission in mind which is keep the sport going in the healthiest keep the sport going in the healthiest keep the sport going in the healthiest way possible that's most inclusive for way possible that's most inclusive for way possible that's most inclusive for the most number of people because he the most number of people because he the most number of people because he knows the importance of having a place knows the importance of having a place knows the importance of having a place where kids that don't fit in in other where kids that don't fit in in other where kids that don't fit in in other sports can come but also the importance sports can come but also the importance sports can come but also the importance of having it be an Olympic sport which of having it be an Olympic sport which of having it be an Olympic sport which skateboarders on too and so this skateboarders on too and so this skateboarders on too and so this isn't about skateboarding. I want to isn't about skateboarding. I want to isn't about skateboarding. I want to make very clear. It's about Jim and the make very clear. It's about Jim and the make very clear. It's about Jim and the fact that he understands his sense of fact that he understands his sense of fact that he understands his sense of purpose, his sense of duty. He knew well purpose, his sense of duty. He knew well purpose, his sense of duty. He knew well enough that even though he was a enough that even though he was a enough that even though he was a professional skateboarder, that he would professional skateboarder, that he would professional skateboarder, that he would better serve the community by doing better serve the community by doing better serve the community by doing something else, which is to be a leader. something else, which is to be a leader. something else, which is to be a leader. He leads quietly. Like, I think about He leads quietly. Like, I think about He leads quietly. Like, I think about him all the time. So, do they know how him all the time. So, do they know how him all the time. So, do they know how much I appreciate them? There's no way. much I appreciate them? There's no way. much I appreciate them? There's no way. I could go on for hours about him, the I could go on for hours about him, the I could go on for hours about him, the things he's done for me. Anyone that things he's done for me. Anyone that things he's done for me. Anyone that knows that sport or knows Jim knows knows that sport or knows Jim knows knows that sport or knows Jim knows exactly what I'm talking about. He'll exactly what I'm talking about. He'll exactly what I'm talking about. He'll never have a podcast. He'll never go on never have a podcast. He'll never go on never have a podcast. He'll never go on a podcast. Maybe he'll bless us with a podcast. Maybe he'll bless us with a podcast. Maybe he'll bless us with coming on my podcast, but some people coming on my podcast, but some people coming on my podcast, but some people like him, like I hope they But people like him, like I hope they But people like him, like I hope they But people like him in my life and I hope they
3:50like him in my life and I hope they like him in my life and I hope they know. But there's no card you can send know. But there's no card you can send know. But there's no card you can send that can capture all that. I think it's that can capture all that. I think it's that can capture all that. I think it's just like checking in on on him every just like checking in on on him every just like checking in on on him every morning and just, you know, giving him a morning and just, you know, giving him a morning and just, you know, giving him a big hug when I see him, you know. And um big hug when I see him, you know. And um big hug when I see him, you know. And um I saw a tweet recently. It was like I saw a tweet recently. It was like I saw a tweet recently. It was like normalizing or no, it was the dude with normalizing or no, it was the dude with normalizing or no, it was the dude with sign guy who's super funny. I think it sign guy who's super funny. I think it sign guy who's super funny. I think it said normalizing telling your friends said normalizing telling your friends said normalizing telling your friends you love them. I don't think that was you love them. I don't think that was you love them. I don't think that was for women. Hopefully, they're doing for women. Hopefully, they're doing for women. Hopefully, they're doing that, too. I think it's for men. Like, that, too. I think it's for men. Like, that, too. I think it's for men. Like, I'm not shy about that. I tell my I'm not shy about that. I tell my I'm not shy about that. I tell my friends I love you. I've also had the friends I love you. I've also had the friends I love you. I've also had the experience of not doing that and then I experience of not doing that and then I experience of not doing that and then I never see that friend again. So, I'm not never see that friend again. So, I'm not never see that friend again. So, I'm not trying to be overly sentimental, right? trying to be overly sentimental, right? trying to be overly sentimental, right? It's really about just like like It's really about just like like It's really about just like like [snorts] living your life with as much [snorts] living your life with as much [snorts] living your life with as much heart forward as is safe and heart forward as is safe and heart forward as is safe and appropriate, right? So anyway, um that's appropriate, right? So anyway, um that's appropriate, right? So anyway, um that's one example. There's there's no way they one example. There's there's no way they one example. There's there's no way they could know. could know. could know. >> He just sat with me. I find those to be >> He just sat with me. I find those to be >> He just sat with me. I find those to be very interesting words because we think very interesting words because we think very interesting words because we think about the role of a friend in that about the role of a friend in that about the role of a friend in that situation of fixing things, diving in situation of fixing things, diving in situation of fixing things, diving in there, figuring out the problem and there, figuring out the problem and there, figuring out the problem and presenting the solution, but you said he
3:51presenting the solution, but you said he presenting the solution, but you said he just sat with me. just sat with me. just sat with me. >> Oh man, when Barbara Chapman, my >> Oh man, when Barbara Chapman, my >> Oh man, when Barbara Chapman, my graduate adviser, died, I was graduate adviser, died, I was graduate adviser, died, I was devastated. And she had two small girls, devastated. And she had two small girls, devastated. And she had two small girls, and I knew her when she was pregnant and I knew her when she was pregnant and I knew her when she was pregnant with each one of them, and I was close with each one of them, and I was close with each one of them, and I was close with their family. And I went to the with their family. And I went to the with their family. And I went to the House of Flowers in San Francisco and House of Flowers in San Francisco and House of Flowers in San Francisco and her daughters get up, okay? One I think her daughters get up, okay? One I think her daughters get up, okay? One I think was probably about 12, the older one, was probably about 12, the older one, was probably about 12, the older one, the younger one, who by the way became a the younger one, who by the way became a the younger one, who by the way became a neuroscientist at that time was probably neuroscientist at that time was probably neuroscientist at that time was probably about nine. And these two girls that about nine. And these two girls that about nine. And these two girls that I've known since they were essentially I've known since they were essentially I've known since they were essentially in the womb are there talking about in the womb are there talking about in the womb are there talking about their dead mother. Now I broke down. I their dead mother. Now I broke down. I their dead mother. Now I broke down. I during my eulogy like I just lost it. I during my eulogy like I just lost it. I during my eulogy like I just lost it. I was crying in front of my colleagues. I was crying in front of my colleagues. I was crying in front of my colleagues. I was so embarrassed and at the same time was so embarrassed and at the same time was so embarrassed and at the same time like I just couldn't hold it back. these like I just couldn't hold it back. these like I just couldn't hold it back. these two young girls get up there to talk two young girls get up there to talk two young girls get up there to talk about their dead mom and I'm thinking to about their dead mom and I'm thinking to about their dead mom and I'm thinking to myself, "Oh my god, everyone's just myself, "Oh my god, everyone's just myself, "Oh my god, everyone's just bracing themselves and they just said bracing themselves and they just said bracing themselves and they just said they're so strong." They said, "The best they're so strong." They said, "The best they're so strong." They said, "The best part about our mom is that she spent a part about our mom is that she spent a part about our mom is that she spent a lot of unstructured time with us
3:52lot of unstructured time with us lot of unstructured time with us and that was it." And they sat down and and that was it." And they sat down and and that was it." And they sat down and I remember thinking, "Holy shit." Like I remember thinking, "Holy shit." Like I remember thinking, "Holy shit." Like that was it. Of all the things they did, that was it. Of all the things they did, that was it. Of all the things they did, the baseball games they went to, the the baseball games they went to, the the baseball games they went to, the things they did, I'm sure they have so things they did, I'm sure they have so things they did, I'm sure they have so many memories. And the thing they many memories. And the thing they many memories. And the thing they remember is most important is the fact remember is most important is the fact remember is most important is the fact that their mom spent a lot of that their mom spent a lot of that their mom spent a lot of unstructured time with them. Just hung unstructured time with them. Just hung unstructured time with them. Just hung out with them. out with them. out with them. >> Like just hung out with them. And I >> Like just hung out with them. And I >> Like just hung out with them. And I think at some level like yeah, we need think at some level like yeah, we need think at some level like yeah, we need people to show up when things are hard. people to show up when things are hard. people to show up when things are hard. We need people to support us, celebrate We need people to support us, celebrate We need people to support us, celebrate with us. But like some ways like a with us. But like some ways like a with us. But like some ways like a really good friend is just somebody who really good friend is just somebody who really good friend is just somebody who just kind of hangs out with us. just kind of hangs out with us. just kind of hangs out with us. >> Simon Synynic said that to me. He said, >> Simon Synynic said that to me. He said, >> Simon Synynic said that to me. He said, "In those moments, what you need is "In those moments, what you need is "In those moments, what you need is someone just to sit in the mud with you. someone just to sit in the mud with you. someone just to sit in the mud with you. You don't need them to do anything. They You don't need them to do anything. They You don't need them to do anything. They just need to be sat there in the mud just need to be sat there in the mud just need to be sat there in the mud with you." with you." with you." >> And that that in part is the medicinal >> And that that in part is the medicinal >> And that that in part is the medicinal effect, just knowing that there's effect, just knowing that there's effect, just knowing that there's someone else in the mud with you. someone else in the mud with you. someone else in the mud with you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> Yeah. You know, I I >> Yeah. You know, I I >> Yeah. You know, I I again, I don't want to focus on names again, I don't want to focus on names again, I don't want to focus on names people recognize because I don't want it people recognize because I don't want it people recognize because I don't want it to seem like it's unique to them. But I to seem like it's unique to them. But I to seem like it's unique to them. But I I mention names like specific names
3:53I mention names like specific names I mention names like specific names because they may resonate with your because they may resonate with your because they may resonate with your audience. you know, that's why I audience. you know, that's why I audience. you know, that's why I mentioned Rick or whatever. Or like a mentioned Rick or whatever. Or like a mentioned Rick or whatever. Or like a guy like Lane Norton I'm getting to know guy like Lane Norton I'm getting to know guy like Lane Norton I'm getting to know better. Like Lane on social media is a better. Like Lane on social media is a better. Like Lane on social media is a pretty, you know, serrated edge guy, pretty, you know, serrated edge guy, pretty, you know, serrated edge guy, right? [laughter] right? [laughter] right? [laughter] But he's he's a sweetheart. He's a kind But he's he's a sweetheart. He's a kind But he's he's a sweetheart. He's a kind person and he's got a ferociousness to person and he's got a ferociousness to person and he's got a ferociousness to him. Yeah. him. Yeah. him. Yeah. >> You know, which is >> You know, which is >> You know, which is >> something I can relate to. he, you know, >> something I can relate to. he, you know, >> something I can relate to. he, you know, and um and I see his loyalty to his kids and um and I see his loyalty to his kids and um and I see his loyalty to his kids and I see, you know, how he like his and I see, you know, how he like his and I see, you know, how he like his fingernails will be painted and people fingernails will be painted and people fingernails will be painted and people will tease him and but he does it will tease him and but he does it will tease him and but he does it because his daughter loves it and he because his daughter loves it and he because his daughter loves it and he also is the guy that's going to deadlift also is the guy that's going to deadlift also is the guy that's going to deadlift twice as much as anyone else. And he's twice as much as anyone else. And he's twice as much as anyone else. And he's and he's got this forward center of mass and he's got this forward center of mass and he's got this forward center of mass on things. And then I also just see like on things. And then I also just see like on things. And then I also just see like he's just such a loving person. he loves he's just such a loving person. he loves he's just such a loving person. he loves what he does. And and I hope people will what he does. And and I hope people will what he does. And and I hope people will start to look at people's personas, start to look at people's personas, start to look at people's personas, certainly online, but in real life, and certainly online, but in real life, and certainly online, but in real life, and just start to like take them in a little just start to like take them in a little just start to like take them in a little bit, like what are they trying to tell bit, like what are they trying to tell bit, like what are they trying to tell you when they're being a little bit you when they're being a little bit you when they're being a little bit annoying or what are they trying to tell annoying or what are they trying to tell annoying or what are they trying to tell you when they're frustrated by politics? you when they're frustrated by politics? you when they're frustrated by politics? Like like looking a layer deeper and Like like looking a layer deeper and Like like looking a layer deeper and trying to like see the person and feel
3:54trying to like see the person and feel trying to like see the person and feel the person as as an experience of them the person as as an experience of them the person as as an experience of them is like another way, I think, to be a is like another way, I think, to be a is like another way, I think, to be a really good friend. Because when people really good friend. Because when people really good friend. Because when people say like, "I see you." I don't think say like, "I see you." I don't think say like, "I see you." I don't think they're like, "I see you." Like, "You they're like, "I see you." Like, "You they're like, "I see you." Like, "You need to do some eye gazing or need to do some eye gazing or need to do some eye gazing or something." I think what it is, I mean, something." I think what it is, I mean, something." I think what it is, I mean, eye contact's important, of course, but eye contact's important, of course, but eye contact's important, of course, but I don't think it's it's related to like I don't think it's it's related to like I don't think it's it's related to like taking them in visually as much as just taking them in visually as much as just taking them in visually as much as just like really appreciating that they have like really appreciating that they have like really appreciating that they have all these different sides, all these all these different sides, all these all these different sides, all these different facets. You earlier you were different facets. You earlier you were different facets. You earlier you were talking about your relationship. I mean, talking about your relationship. I mean, talking about your relationship. I mean, what you described to me is like real what you described to me is like real what you described to me is like real intimacy. intimacy. intimacy. >> Like, sure, things proceed along great. >> Like, sure, things proceed along great. >> Like, sure, things proceed along great. Then there's this challenge. It's a big Then there's this challenge. It's a big Then there's this challenge. It's a big one. There's some shame associated with one. There's some shame associated with one. There's some shame associated with it. there's confusion and then people go it. there's confusion and then people go it. there's confusion and then people go into their different domains, do their into their different domains, do their into their different domains, do their work, come together and like share and work, come together and like share and work, come together and like share and then grow. I mean, that's intimacy. It then grow. I mean, that's intimacy. It then grow. I mean, that's intimacy. It takes risk. It takes a certain amount of takes risk. It takes a certain amount of takes risk. It takes a certain amount of healthy risk. And um I think we can do healthy risk. And um I think we can do healthy risk. And um I think we can do this in all relationships. And um you this in all relationships. And um you this in all relationships. And um you know, I'm no psychologist and I'm still know, I'm no psychologist and I'm still know, I'm no psychologist and I'm still learning and Lord knows I have a lot of learning and Lord knows I have a lot of learning and Lord knows I have a lot of work to do, but um I'll be damned if I'm work to do, but um I'll be damned if I'm work to do, but um I'll be damned if I'm going to quit. I'm going to keep trying. going to quit. I'm going to keep trying. going to quit. I'm going to keep trying. >> Andrew, we have a closing tradition on
3:55>> Andrew, we have a closing tradition on >> Andrew, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves this podcast where the last guest leaves this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not a question for the next guest not a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving knowing who they're going to be leaving knowing who they're going to be leaving it for. it for. it for. And the question left here for you is, And the question left here for you is, And the question left here for you is, what is the true meaning of your life? what is the true meaning of your life? what is the true meaning of your life? Why do you exist? Goodness, that's a tough one. Meaning, Goodness, that's a tough one. Meaning, it's hard to distill that down, but I'll pause for a second in an effort but I'll pause for a second in an effort to keep it uncharacteristically brief. You know, as I mentioned earlier, all I You know, as I mentioned earlier, all I have is my experience, the knowledge have is my experience, the knowledge have is my experience, the knowledge that I gained from that experience and that I gained from that experience and that I gained from that experience and my words. And my words. And my words. And for me, the purpose of my life is to for me, the purpose of my life is to for me, the purpose of my life is to make the best possible choices that I'm make the best possible choices that I'm make the best possible choices that I'm capable of making at the time in terms capable of making at the time in terms capable of making at the time in terms of what to seek out, what to learn,
3:56of what to seek out, what to learn, of what to seek out, what to learn, and what to share. And I think the real and what to share. And I think the real and what to share. And I think the real meaning of my life is to try and provide meaning of my life is to try and provide meaning of my life is to try and provide useful information and tools so that useful information and tools so that useful information and tools so that people can be a better version of people can be a better version of people can be a better version of themselves for themselves and other themselves for themselves and other themselves for themselves and other people. And I know it sounds lofty and people. And I know it sounds lofty and people. And I know it sounds lofty and kind of empty and cliche on the one kind of empty and cliche on the one kind of empty and cliche on the one hand, but I mean it. I wake up in the hand, but I mean it. I wake up in the hand, but I mean it. I wake up in the morning and I think, what can I learn? morning and I think, what can I learn? morning and I think, what can I learn? What am I excited to learn? And then What am I excited to learn? And then What am I excited to learn? And then when I come across gems, I just when I come across gems, I just when I come across gems, I just compulsively have to tell people about compulsively have to tell people about compulsively have to tell people about it. But not because it. But not because it. But not because I need to do it for me, it's because I I need to do it for me, it's because I I need to do it for me, it's because I feel like people need to know about feel like people need to know about feel like people need to know about this. This can really help. this. This can really help. this. This can really help. >> This can really help. This can >> This can really help. This can >> This can really help. This can potentially really, really, really, potentially really, really, really, potentially really, really, really, really help. really help. really help. So I think that's the meaning of life So I think that's the meaning of life So I think that's the meaning of life for me for me for me >> right now. >> right now. >> right now. >> Right now and um at some point it may be >> Right now and um at some point it may be >> Right now and um at some point it may be just to provide care for little just to provide care for little just to provide care for little hubbermans. hubbermans. hubbermans. [laughter] [laughter] Um at some point it may be something Um at some point it may be something Um at some point it may be something entirely different. I've learned to not
3:57entirely different. I've learned to not entirely different. I've learned to not anticipate what the next steps will be anticipate what the next steps will be anticipate what the next steps will be for me. Um more than five years out. You for me. Um more than five years out. You for me. Um more than five years out. You know, I've seen some ridiculous know, I've seen some ridiculous know, I've seen some ridiculous speculation that I'm going to go into speculation that I'm going to go into speculation that I'm going to go into politics. Probably related to the fact politics. Probably related to the fact politics. Probably related to the fact that I kind of alluded to it once or that I kind of alluded to it once or that I kind of alluded to it once or twice. twice. twice. I'm not going into politics. I'll tell I'm not going into politics. I'll tell I'm not going into politics. I'll tell you right now, there's no chance I'm you right now, there's no chance I'm you right now, there's no chance I'm going into politics. going into politics. going into politics. It runs countercurrent to my nature. And It runs countercurrent to my nature. And It runs countercurrent to my nature. And even if politics changed entirely, it's even if politics changed entirely, it's even if politics changed entirely, it's not for me. Um, what is for me is not for me. Um, what is for me is not for me. Um, what is for me is learning and adventure and sharing what learning and adventure and sharing what learning and adventure and sharing what I learn and that's the only way I know I learn and that's the only way I know I learn and that's the only way I know how to be. >> Andrew, thank you. I didn't know you >> Andrew, thank you. I didn't know you before today. I obviously knew of you before today. I obviously knew of you before today. I obviously knew of you because everyone knows you on on the because everyone knows you on on the because everyone knows you on on the internet for all the work that you've internet for all the work that you've internet for all the work that you've done and all the things that you've done and all the things that you've done and all the things that you've shared, but I didn't know the man. And shared, but I didn't know the man. And shared, but I didn't know the man. And the hours we've spent together today the hours we've spent together today the hours we've spent together today have really illuminated the man that you have really illuminated the man that you have really illuminated the man that you are. And it's really most importantly are. And it's really most importantly are. And it's really most importantly illuminated your intentions which are so illuminated your intentions which are so illuminated your intentions which are so incredibly pure and wonderful. And it's
3:58incredibly pure and wonderful. And it's incredibly pure and wonderful. And it's because of you that much of my podcast because of you that much of my podcast because of you that much of my podcast exists because I learn from your show. exists because I learn from your show. exists because I learn from your show. It inspires me and that calls me to It inspires me and that calls me to It inspires me and that calls me to bring guests on oftentimes guests that bring guests on oftentimes guests that bring guests on oftentimes guests that you've had on your show that I've you've had on your show that I've you've had on your show that I've changed my life in some way. So you've changed my life in some way. So you've changed my life in some way. So you've been a tremendous driver of both my been a tremendous driver of both my been a tremendous driver of both my development as an individual but also of development as an individual but also of development as an individual but also of this show inadvertently. And also that's this show inadvertently. And also that's this show inadvertently. And also that's the case for all of my team because the the case for all of my team because the the case for all of my team because the 30 40 people that work with me here, 30 40 people that work with me here, 30 40 people that work with me here, they're all massive fans of yours. But they're all massive fans of yours. But they're all massive fans of yours. But most importantly, they've had their most importantly, they've had their most importantly, they've had their lives improved because you exist and lives improved because you exist and lives improved because you exist and because you've taken very complex things because you've taken very complex things because you've taken very complex things and distilled them down and shared them and distilled them down and shared them and distilled them down and shared them with all of us in a way that we wouldn't with all of us in a way that we wouldn't with all of us in a way that we wouldn't usually have access to. So that's such a usually have access to. So that's such a usually have access to. So that's such a tremendous gift that you've given and tremendous gift that you've given and tremendous gift that you've given and continue to give. So thank you on behalf continue to give. So thank you on behalf continue to give. So thank you on behalf of myself and all of my team and of myself and all of my team and of myself and all of my team and everybody else that was so excited, all everybody else that was so excited, all everybody else that was so excited, all my friends that were so excited that I'd my friends that were so excited that I'd my friends that were so excited that I'd be speaking to you today. Um I'm be speaking to you today. Um I'm be speaking to you today. Um I'm tremendously excited about your book. I tremendously excited about your book. I tremendously excited about your book. I hear that there's a book coming out hear that there's a book coming out hear that there's a book coming out called Protocols uh an operation an called Protocols uh an operation an called Protocols uh an operation an operating manual for the human body operating manual for the human body operating manual for the human body >> which comes out next year in the 22nd of >> which comes out next year in the 22nd of >> which comes out next year in the 22nd of April 2025. If there was ever a I don't April 2025. If there was ever a I don't April 2025. If there was ever a I don't get excited by many books but having
3:59get excited by many books but having get excited by many books but having been such a fan of your work, it is a been such a fan of your work, it is a been such a fan of your work, it is a book that I'm I consider to be book that I'm I consider to be book that I'm I consider to be essential. We were talking about it essential. We were talking about it essential. We were talking about it yesterday. We see it as we're almost yesterday. We see it as we're almost yesterday. We see it as we're almost like waiting for the like the Bible on like waiting for the like the Bible on like waiting for the like the Bible on this subject matter matter. So, I I'm this subject matter matter. So, I I'm this subject matter matter. So, I I'm going to link it below cuz I know it's going to link it below cuz I know it's going to link it below cuz I know it's currently available for pre-order or currently available for pre-order or currently available for pre-order or pre-sale, and I highly recommend if pre-sale, and I highly recommend if pre-sale, and I highly recommend if people find what you do to be of any people find what you do to be of any people find what you do to be of any value, then this is the book to read. value, then this is the book to read. value, then this is the book to read. Um, I've been doing everything I can to Um, I've been doing everything I can to Um, I've been doing everything I can to just get snippets of it from people just get snippets of it from people just get snippets of it from people around you. And the excitement and around you. And the excitement and around you. And the excitement and anticipation is palpable. So, thank you anticipation is palpable. So, thank you anticipation is palpable. So, thank you for taking the time to write that book for taking the time to write that book for taking the time to write that book cuz you don't have to. You've got a big cuz you don't have to. You've got a big cuz you don't have to. You've got a big enough audience as it is. You don't have enough audience as it is. You don't have enough audience as it is. You don't have to sit down and really distill it down to sit down and really distill it down to sit down and really distill it down for people. Um, and more than anything, for people. Um, and more than anything, for people. Um, and more than anything, just thank you. I really really just thank you. I really really just thank you. I really really appreciate that you what you do and that appreciate that you what you do and that appreciate that you what you do and that the fact that you exist and all that the fact that you exist and all that the fact that you exist and all that you've done for me and and all my my you've done for me and and all my my you've done for me and and all my my friends and people that matter to me. friends and people that matter to me. friends and people that matter to me. So, thank you on behalf of all of us and So, thank you on behalf of all of us and So, thank you on behalf of all of us and I really really mean that from the I really really mean that from the I really really mean that from the bottom of my heart. So, thank you. bottom of my heart. So, thank you. bottom of my heart. So, thank you. >> Thank you. I'll take that in and um I'm >> Thank you. I'll take that in and um I'm >> Thank you. I'll take that in and um I'm very grateful for the opportunity to sit very grateful for the opportunity to sit very grateful for the opportunity to sit down with you today. I'm a huge fan and down with you today. I'm a huge fan and down with you today. I'm a huge fan and admirer of what you've done and what admirer of what you've done and what admirer of what you've done and what you're doing and uh right back at you in you're doing and uh right back at you in you're doing and uh right back at you in the sense that you have many many areas
4:00the sense that you have many many areas the sense that you have many many areas of success. You don't need to do a of success. You don't need to do a of success. You don't need to do a podcast. Um, but the fact that you do podcast. Um, but the fact that you do podcast. Um, but the fact that you do bring so much benefit to the world, it's bring so much benefit to the world, it's bring so much benefit to the world, it's been just marvelous to see your ascent, been just marvelous to see your ascent, been just marvelous to see your ascent, which is just like pointed at the sun. which is just like pointed at the sun. which is just like pointed at the sun. You just you guys are are doing such You just you guys are are doing such You just you guys are are doing such incredible work and continue to. And um, incredible work and continue to. And um, incredible work and continue to. And um, you know, I have to say I I came here you know, I have to say I I came here you know, I have to say I I came here today expecting we were going to get today expecting we were going to get today expecting we were going to get into some science and to some protocols into some science and to some protocols into some science and to some protocols and I knew we were going to cover a lot and I knew we were going to cover a lot and I knew we were going to cover a lot of areas. Um, but I didn't anticipate uh of areas. Um, but I didn't anticipate uh of areas. Um, but I didn't anticipate uh the depth of the conversation that we the depth of the conversation that we the depth of the conversation that we were going to have. And I can say it's were going to have. And I can say it's were going to have. And I can say it's entirely the consequence of of your entirely the consequence of of your entirely the consequence of of your realness and and the uh that you know realness and and the uh that you know realness and and the uh that you know that the genuine compassion that you that the genuine compassion that you that the genuine compassion that you bring to these kinds of conversations bring to these kinds of conversations bring to these kinds of conversations that's felt. I also really appreciate that's felt. I also really appreciate that's felt. I also really appreciate the way you shared some of your own the way you shared some of your own the way you shared some of your own experience. I can tell you're somebody experience. I can tell you're somebody experience. I can tell you're somebody who really cares about people who really cares about people who really cares about people >> and that your success is, you know, in >> and that your success is, you know, in >> and that your success is, you know, in no small part the consequence of that. no small part the consequence of that. no small part the consequence of that. So, thank you for having me here and to So, thank you for having me here and to So, thank you for having me here and to your team for having me here and um and your team for having me here and um and your team for having me here and um and for for doing what you do. It's clear for for doing what you do. It's clear
4:01for for doing what you do. It's clear you're allin in every endeavor and your you're allin in every endeavor and your you're allin in every endeavor and your nature is is an incredible one. The fact nature is is an incredible one. The fact nature is is an incredible one. The fact that you can take on so many things and that you can take on so many things and that you can take on so many things and that you've embraced your nature to uh that you've embraced your nature to uh that you've embraced your nature to uh not want to go the traditional path. I not want to go the traditional path. I not want to go the traditional path. I think that's an incredible and think that's an incredible and think that's an incredible and incredibly important example for people. incredibly important example for people. incredibly important example for people. So, I can also say that I think that uh So, I can also say that I think that uh So, I can also say that I think that uh we're going to be friends, so you should we're going to be friends, so you should we're going to be friends, so you should pass me your [laughter] number. We we'll pass me your [laughter] number. We we'll pass me your [laughter] number. We we'll check in in the morning and we should check in in the morning and we should check in in the morning and we should grab a meal or a workout or whatever. grab a meal or a workout or whatever. grab a meal or a workout or whatever. Maybe we just hang out. So, I I'd like Maybe we just hang out. So, I I'd like Maybe we just hang out. So, I I'd like to think that uh we've uh sparked a to think that uh we've uh sparked a to think that uh we've uh sparked a friendship. friendship. >> We certainly have. Thank you, Andrew. >> We certainly have. Thank you, Andrew. >> We certainly have. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you.