Andrew Huberman PhD How to Improve Motivation Focus By Leveraging Dopamine
00:00dopamine that follows effort is dopamine that follows effort is generally good for us one would hope generally good for us one would hope generally good for us one would hope that effort is in service to our own that effort is in service to our own that effort is in service to our own goodness and the goodness of others but goodness and the goodness of others but goodness and the goodness of others but that's generally true large amplitude that's generally true large amplitude that's generally true large amplitude peaks in dopamine that don't require peaks in dopamine that don't require peaks in dopamine that don't require effort are dangerous and to me it's effort are dangerous and to me it's effort are dangerous and to me it's clear that if you care very much about clear that if you care very much about clear that if you care very much about your brain that more than two drinks per your brain that more than two drinks per your brain that more than two drinks per week on a consistent basis probably not week on a consistent basis probably not week on a consistent basis probably not a good idea if you need a stimulant a good idea if you need a stimulant a good idea if you need a stimulant every time you're going to exercise every time you're going to exercise every time you're going to exercise you are um creating a a pattern of you are um creating a a pattern of you are um creating a a pattern of behavior and likely some underlying neur behavior and likely some underlying neur behavior and likely some underlying neur neurochemical habits that that are not neurochemical habits that that are not neurochemical habits that that are not going to serve you well in the long run going to serve you well in the long run going to serve you well in the long run super excited to be sitting here with Dr super excited to be sitting here with Dr super excited to be sitting here with Dr Andrew huberman who is a professor of Andrew huberman who is a professor of Andrew huberman who is a professor of neurobiology at Stanford University and neurobiology at Stanford University and neurobiology at Stanford University and a phenomenal science Communicator has a phenomenal science Communicator has a phenomenal science Communicator has the wildly popular podcast hubman Lab the wildly popular podcast hubman Lab the wildly popular podcast hubman Lab podcast Andrew this has been a long time podcast Andrew this has been a long time podcast Andrew this has been a long time in the making super pumped to have you in the making super pumped to have you in the making super pumped to have you on the podcast and have this discussion
01:00on the podcast and have this discussion on the podcast and have this discussion with you it's been a couple of years with you it's been a couple of years with you it's been a couple of years since we've uh since we've talked so um since we've uh since we've talked so um since we've uh since we've talked so um really excited to get into I mean you've really excited to get into I mean you've really excited to get into I mean you've you've covered a lot of really you've covered a lot of really you've covered a lot of really interesting brain related things in your interesting brain related things in your interesting brain related things in your in your podcast but um some of the in your podcast but um some of the in your podcast but um some of the things that have jumped out to me as things that have jumped out to me as things that have jumped out to me as very interesting is just understanding very interesting is just understanding very interesting is just understanding the way our dopamine system works so I the way our dopamine system works so I the way our dopamine system works so I was wondering if we could kind of just was wondering if we could kind of just was wondering if we could kind of just start start start by talking about what dopamine is a lot by talking about what dopamine is a lot by talking about what dopamine is a lot of people think it's just a of people think it's just a of people think it's just a neurotransmitter uh and and why it's so neurotransmitter uh and and why it's so neurotransmitter uh and and why it's so important for our everyday life okay important for our everyday life okay important for our everyday life okay happy to do that but I'd be remiss if I happy to do that but I'd be remiss if I happy to do that but I'd be remiss if I didn't Express a debt of gratitude I I didn't Express a debt of gratitude I I didn't Express a debt of gratitude I I love your podcast I've been a fan for a love your podcast I've been a fan for a love your podcast I've been a fan for a very long long time so for me it's a very long long time so for me it's a very long long time so for me it's a dream come true to be here as a guest on dream come true to be here as a guest on dream come true to be here as a guest on your podcast I know you've been a guest your podcast I know you've been a guest your podcast I know you've been a guest on mine and hopefully we'll be again in on mine and hopefully we'll be again in on mine and hopefully we'll be again in the not too distant future and also I the not too distant future and also I the not too distant future and also I want to point out what should be obvious want to point out what should be obvious want to point out what should be obvious to everybody but in case it's not that to everybody but in case it's not that to everybody but in case it's not that anytime people say with respect to anytime people say with respect to anytime people say with respect to public science community ation in the
02:00public science community ation in the public science community ation in the realm of podcasting people will say who realm of podcasting people will say who realm of podcasting people will say who is the first man in and I say actually is the first man in and I say actually is the first man in and I say actually it was a woman her name is Ronda Patrick it was a woman her name is Ronda Patrick it was a woman her name is Ronda Patrick you you are the first Advanced degreed you you are the first Advanced degreed you you are the first Advanced degreed scientist to step into the public facing scientist to step into the public facing scientist to step into the public facing education Arena and to do it in podcast education Arena and to do it in podcast education Arena and to do it in podcast format at scale with your own podcast on format at scale with your own podcast on format at scale with your own podcast on Tim paris's podcast Joe Rogan's podcast Tim paris's podcast Joe Rogan's podcast Tim paris's podcast Joe Rogan's podcast and of course um you continued to do and of course um you continued to do and of course um you continued to do that so I just want to say thank you for that so I just want to say thank you for that so I just want to say thank you for being um first one in and yeah and just being um first one in and yeah and just being um first one in and yeah and just really remind people that that's the really remind people that that's the really remind people that that's the history of this whole thing so thanks history of this whole thing so thanks history of this whole thing so thanks for um Paving the way we we all owe you for um Paving the way we we all owe you for um Paving the way we we all owe you uh and so thank you much gratitude thank uh and so thank you much gratitude thank uh and so thank you much gratitude thank you very much um you very much um you very much um dopamine super interesting neurom dopamine super interesting neurom dopamine super interesting neurom modulator neurom modulator not modulator neurom modulator not modulator neurom modulator not neurotransmitter I'm not being overly neurotransmitter I'm not being overly neurotransmitter I'm not being overly nitpicky there the word modulator is key nitpicky there the word modulator is key nitpicky there the word modulator is key because if you want to understand because if you want to understand because if you want to understand dopamine it's important to understand dopamine it's important to understand dopamine it's important to understand that it basically adjusts the activity that it basically adjusts the activity that it basically adjusts the activity of a lot of different circuits meaning of a lot of different circuits meaning of a lot of different circuits meaning it's less involved in most cases in very
03:00it's less involved in most cases in very it's less involved in most cases in very local communication between neurons it local communication between neurons it local communication between neurons it can be than it is changing say you know can be than it is changing say you know can be than it is changing say you know how much the reward and motivation how much the reward and motivation how much the reward and motivation circuits are ramped up versus the circuits are ramped up versus the circuits are ramped up versus the circuitries in the brain that are circuitries in the brain that are circuitries in the brain that are involved in feelings of satisfaction um involved in feelings of satisfaction um involved in feelings of satisfaction um so you can think of dopamine because so you can think of dopamine because so you can think of dopamine because it's a neuromodulator as kind of it's a neuromodulator as kind of it's a neuromodulator as kind of generating playlists if you will of generating playlists if you will of generating playlists if you will of certain genres of neural circuit certain genres of neural circuit certain genres of neural circuit function okay and that's distinctly function okay and that's distinctly function okay and that's distinctly different than a neurot mitter like different than a neurot mitter like different than a neurot mitter like glutamate or Gaba which can also do the glutamate or Gaba which can also do the glutamate or Gaba which can also do the things I just described but are most things I just described but are most things I just described but are most often associated with like local often associated with like local often associated with like local communication between neurons so use a communication between neurons so use a communication between neurons so use a different analogy if we were to um drop different analogy if we were to um drop different analogy if we were to um drop a million microphones into a stadium a million microphones into a stadium a million microphones into a stadium filled with people each filled with people each filled with people each microphone listening to the specific microphone listening to the specific microphone listening to the specific conversation between two or three people conversation between two or three people conversation between two or three people then we could say the speech between then we could say the speech between then we could say the speech between those people and what's going on there those people and what's going on there those people and what's going on there is more like what neurotransmitter are
04:00is more like what neurotransmitter are is more like what neurotransmitter are responsible for local communication responsible for local communication responsible for local communication whereas if we were to have let's say 10 whereas if we were to have let's say 10 whereas if we were to have let's say 10 or 15 microphones grabbing from a bunch or 15 microphones grabbing from a bunch or 15 microphones grabbing from a bunch of different conversations and even of different conversations and even of different conversations and even shaping those conversations by virtue of shaping those conversations by virtue of shaping those conversations by virtue of you know pinging those conversations you know pinging those conversations you know pinging those conversations with certain uh keywords like um excited with certain uh keywords like um excited with certain uh keywords like um excited motivation Etc well that's more akin to motivation Etc well that's more akin to motivation Etc well that's more akin to what dopamine is doing it's working at a what dopamine is doing it's working at a what dopamine is doing it's working at a broader scale to change the way that the broader scale to change the way that the broader scale to change the way that the circuitries in our brain work so when I circuitries in our brain work so when I circuitries in our brain work so when I say neuromodulator that's why when it say neuromodulator that's why when it say neuromodulator that's why when it comes to understanding what dopamine comes to understanding what dopamine comes to understanding what dopamine does specifically it's important that we does specifically it's important that we does specifically it's important that we note that it does different things in note that it does different things in note that it does different things in different parts of the brain and body so different parts of the brain and body so different parts of the brain and body so there isn't one singular function there isn't one singular function there isn't one singular function dopamine is in fact expressed in the eye dopamine is in fact expressed in the eye dopamine is in fact expressed in the eye it's involved in adaptation to light so it's involved in adaptation to light so it's involved in adaptation to light so that's a function that most people don't that's a function that most people don't that's a function that most people don't associate with dopamine but it performs associate with dopamine but it performs associate with dopamine but it performs that role there it modulates the that role there it modulates the that role there it modulates the activity of retinal neurons so that activity of retinal neurons so that activity of retinal neurons so that under different luminance conditions under different luminance conditions under different luminance conditions brightness or Darkness the eye can still brightness or Darkness the eye can still brightness or Darkness the eye can still make sense of the visual world as you go make sense of the visual world as you go make sense of the visual world as you go into the brain further what you find is
05:00into the brain further what you find is into the brain further what you find is that dopamine is expressed in neurons that dopamine is expressed in neurons that dopamine is expressed in neurons that are exquisitly tied to our ability that are exquisitly tied to our ability that are exquisitly tied to our ability to move okay most notably in a brain to move okay most notably in a brain to move okay most notably in a brain area uh called the ventral tegmentum area uh called the ventral tegmentum area uh called the ventral tegmentum which just means the floor of the which just means the floor of the which just means the floor of the midbrain which is called the substan midbrain which is called the substan midbrain which is called the substan because the neurons there are dark because the neurons there are dark because the neurons there are dark and those neurons are critically and those neurons are critically and those neurons are critically important for generating smooth important for generating smooth important for generating smooth movements those are the neurons that movements those are the neurons that movements those are the neurons that degenerate in Parkinson's and that's why degenerate in Parkinson's and that's why degenerate in Parkinson's and that's why you see a elevated resting Tremor and you see a elevated resting Tremor and you see a elevated resting Tremor and difficulty initial ating movement in difficulty initial ating movement in difficulty initial ating movement in people with Parkinson in fact most of people with Parkinson in fact most of people with Parkinson in fact most of the treatments for Parkinson center the treatments for Parkinson center the treatments for Parkinson center around trying to replace that dopamine around trying to replace that dopamine around trying to replace that dopamine or those dopamine neurons and then as or those dopamine neurons and then as or those dopamine neurons and then as you move into the classic reward system you move into the classic reward system you move into the classic reward system of the ventral tegmental area nucleus of the ventral tegmental area nucleus of the ventral tegmental area nucleus accumbent these are all just names of accumbent these are all just names of accumbent these are all just names of brain areas that are associated with brain areas that are associated with brain areas that are associated with reward motivation and pursuit and most reward motivation and pursuit and most reward motivation and pursuit and most people associate dopamine with a sense people associate dopamine with a sense people associate dopamine with a sense of reward we hear about dopamine hits of reward we hear about dopamine hits of reward we hear about dopamine hits the idea that okay I'm thirsty I take a the idea that okay I'm thirsty I take a the idea that okay I'm thirsty I take a sip of my tea and I get a do dopamine
06:00sip of my tea and I get a do dopamine sip of my tea and I get a do dopamine hit that's the idea now in reality hit that's the idea now in reality hit that's the idea now in reality dopamine is more closely tied to dopamine is more closely tied to dopamine is more closely tied to motivational States the pursuit of motivational States the pursuit of motivational States the pursuit of rewards and those rewards could be in rewards and those rewards could be in rewards and those rewards could be in the form of something that you get or a the form of something that you get or a the form of something that you get or a punishing thing that you remove this is punishing thing that you remove this is punishing thing that you remove this is important the removal of a painful important the removal of a painful important the removal of a painful stimulus or or a say agitation or moving stimulus or or a say agitation or moving stimulus or or a say agitation or moving from a state of being too cold to being from a state of being too cold to being from a state of being too cold to being comfortable or too hot to being comfortable or too hot to being comfortable or too hot to being comfortably cool also will release comfortably cool also will release comfortably cool also will release dopamine so dopamine isn't really dopamine so dopamine isn't really dopamine so dopamine isn't really Tethered to any one thing it's a Tethered to any one thing it's a Tethered to any one thing it's a currency that is involved in generating currency that is involved in generating currency that is involved in generating movement that's not coincidental and is movement that's not coincidental and is movement that's not coincidental and is involved in motivation and pursuit of involved in motivation and pursuit of involved in motivation and pursuit of particular rewards and those rewards are particular rewards and those rewards are particular rewards and those rewards are contextual in an environment where it's contextual in an environment where it's contextual in an environment where it's exceedingly cold finding warmth is the exceedingly cold finding warmth is the exceedingly cold finding warmth is the reward in an environment where it's reward in an environment where it's reward in an environment where it's exceedingly hot you're hiking in the exceedingly hot you're hiking in the exceedingly hot you're hiking in the Joshua Tree desert you run out of water Joshua Tree desert you run out of water Joshua Tree desert you run out of water and it's really really warm getting into and it's really really warm getting into and it's really really warm getting into that cool shower is going to feel that cool shower is going to feel that cool shower is going to feel fantastically good and dopamine is no fantastically good and dopamine is no fantastically good and dopamine is no doubt released under both conditions but doubt released under both conditions but doubt released under both conditions but dopamine is released and root to goals
07:00dopamine is released and root to goals dopamine is released and root to goals when we think or to rewards when we when we think or to rewards when we when we think or to rewards when we believe that we are on the right path to believe that we are on the right path to believe that we are on the right path to those goals and this is critical and those goals and this is critical and those goals and this is critical and this is why we say it's involved in this is why we say it's involved in this is why we say it's involved in motivation there's a classic experiment motivation there's a classic experiment motivation there's a classic experiment that I think summarizes the specific that I think summarizes the specific that I think summarizes the specific role of dopamine and disambiguates it role of dopamine and disambiguates it role of dopamine and disambiguates it from the reward properties of dopamine from the reward properties of dopamine from the reward properties of dopamine because it does have reward properties because it does have reward properties because it does have reward properties best and the experiment is essentially best and the experiment is essentially best and the experiment is essentially the following you take two groups of the following you take two groups of the following you take two groups of rats one rats one rats one group of rats has an intact dopamine group of rats has an intact dopamine group of rats has an intact dopamine system the neurons are alive and system the neurons are alive and system the neurons are alive and thriving in this reward system and other thriving in this reward system and other thriving in this reward system and other areas of the brain and you give them areas of the brain and you give them areas of the brain and you give them access to a lever press or some other access to a lever press or some other access to a lever press or some other small amount of work that then generates small amount of work that then generates small amount of work that then generates a food reward like a fro Loop or a food reward like a fro Loop or a food reward like a fro Loop or something rats and mice love these kinds something rats and mice love these kinds something rats and mice love these kinds of things as we know as do humans for of things as we know as do humans for of things as we know as do humans for all the wrong reasons um but real ones all the wrong reasons um but real ones all the wrong reasons um but real ones nonetheless those animals will work nonetheless those animals will work nonetheless those animals will work they'll lever press they'll even work they'll lever press they'll even work they'll lever press they'll even work through a maze they'll do a number of through a maze they'll do a number of through a maze they'll do a number of different things some will even cross a
08:00different things some will even cross a different things some will even cross a shock plate to get to food if they're shock plate to get to food if they're shock plate to get to food if they're hungry hungry hungry enough and the intact dopamine system enough and the intact dopamine system enough and the intact dopamine system helps them do that it's motivation based helps them do that it's motivation based helps them do that it's motivation based reward reward reward Pursuit a second group of rats has a Pursuit a second group of rats has a Pursuit a second group of rats has a specific category of dopamine neurons specific category of dopamine neurons specific category of dopamine neurons oblad neurochemically oblad and the that oblad neurochemically oblad and the that oblad neurochemically oblad and the that particular category of neurons are the particular category of neurons are the particular category of neurons are the neurons that are responsible for uh what neurons that are responsible for uh what neurons that are responsible for uh what we classically think of as reward this we classically think of as reward this we classically think of as reward this ventro tegmental nucleus succumbent ventro tegmental nucleus succumbent ventro tegmental nucleus succumbent pathway that we can talk about pathway that we can talk about pathway that we can talk about and those animals will not motivate to and those animals will not motivate to and those animals will not motivate to get the reward however if the reward is get the reward however if the reward is get the reward however if the reward is accessible to them they'll eat those accessible to them they'll eat those accessible to them they'll eat those Froot Loops all day in other words it Froot Loops all day in other words it Froot Loops all day in other words it appears that dopamine is required not appears that dopamine is required not appears that dopamine is required not for the sense of pleasure or reward not for the sense of pleasure or reward not for the sense of pleasure or reward not for the reinforcing properties of food for the reinforcing properties of food for the reinforcing properties of food or other reinforcers warmth when it's or other reinforcers warmth when it's or other reinforcers warmth when it's cold cool when it's too hot Etc but cold cool when it's too hot Etc but cold cool when it's too hot Etc but rather the desire and
09:00rather the desire and rather the desire and especially the ability to convert desire especially the ability to convert desire especially the ability to convert desire into a physical movement or in some into a physical movement or in some into a physical movement or in some cases a cognitive Movement we could talk cases a cognitive Movement we could talk cases a cognitive Movement we could talk about what that would look like about what that would look like about what that would look like cognitive effort to reach a particular cognitive effort to reach a particular cognitive effort to reach a particular goal so what that experiment illustrates goal so what that experiment illustrates goal so what that experiment illustrates and by the way this has been observed n and by the way this has been observed n and by the way this has been observed n in a naturalistic type experiment where in a naturalistic type experiment where in a naturalistic type experiment where people with Parkinson's have fewer people with Parkinson's have fewer people with Parkinson's have fewer dopamine neurons not just in substantial dopamine neurons not just in substantial dopamine neurons not just in substantial but elsewhere as evidence that but elsewhere as evidence that but elsewhere as evidence that dopamine is most critically involved in dopamine is most critically involved in dopamine is most critically involved in motivation and pursuit of goals not motivation and pursuit of goals not motivation and pursuit of goals not pleasure pleasure pleasure itself that so you've you've talked a itself that so you've you've talked a itself that so you've you've talked a lot about this this dopamine wave pool lot about this this dopamine wave pool lot about this this dopamine wave pool and understanding like how our dopamine and understanding like how our dopamine and understanding like how our dopamine levels are fluing throughout the day so levels are fluing throughout the day so levels are fluing throughout the day so this dopamine Dynamics can you talk a this dopamine Dynamics can you talk a this dopamine Dynamics can you talk a little bit about that like the the Peaks little bit about that like the the Peaks little bit about that like the the Peaks and the troughs and our Baseline levels and the troughs and our Baseline levels and the troughs and our Baseline levels and how that does influence our and how that does influence our and how that does influence our motivation for pursuing goals or in some motivation for pursuing goals or in some motivation for pursuing goals or in some cases maybe rewards um in in general and cases maybe rewards um in in general and cases maybe rewards um in in general and how that just affects our our
10:00how that just affects our our how that just affects our our performance absolutely so um before I do performance absolutely so um before I do performance absolutely so um before I do I'll just mention that the dopamine wave I'll just mention that the dopamine wave I'll just mention that the dopamine wave poool analogy is one that I borrowed poool analogy is one that I borrowed poool analogy is one that I borrowed from Dr Kyle Gillette who's a medical from Dr Kyle Gillette who's a medical from Dr Kyle Gillette who's a medical doctor um who's been on my podcast and doctor um who's been on my podcast and doctor um who's been on my podcast and focuses mainly on things related to focuses mainly on things related to focuses mainly on things related to obesity and hormone stuff um he was the obesity and hormone stuff um he was the obesity and hormone stuff um he was the one that initially coined that phrase I one that initially coined that phrase I one that initially coined that phrase I like it very much because it embodies a like it very much because it embodies a like it very much because it embodies a number of key features of the dopamine number of key features of the dopamine number of key features of the dopamine circuitry at large not just one circuit circuitry at large not just one circuit circuitry at large not just one circuit but how dopamine Works generally but how dopamine Works generally but how dopamine Works generally psychologically and physiologically it's psychologically and physiologically it's psychologically and physiologically it's the following first of all dopamine is a the following first of all dopamine is a the following first of all dopamine is a depletable but replenishable resource in depletable but replenishable resource in depletable but replenishable resource in other words unless the dopamine neurons other words unless the dopamine neurons other words unless the dopamine neurons are destroyed like in a case like are destroyed like in a case like are destroyed like in a case like Parkinson's or rare you know exposure to Parkinson's or rare you know exposure to Parkinson's or rare you know exposure to neurochemical that are involved in you neurochemical that are involved in you neurochemical that are involved in you know certain pesticides and that's not a know certain pesticides and that's not a know certain pesticides and that's not a dig on certain pesticides per se but dig on certain pesticides per se but dig on certain pesticides per se but there's a history there of people you there's a history there of people you there's a history there of people you know taking certain compounds in and know taking certain compounds in and know taking certain compounds in and destruction of of dopamine
11:00destruction of of dopamine destruction of of dopamine neurons those particular cases neurons those particular cases neurons those particular cases aside most of us have dopamine neurons aside most of us have dopamine neurons aside most of us have dopamine neurons that can readily release dopamine and do that can readily release dopamine and do that can readily release dopamine and do so at what I would call a tonic level so at what I would call a tonic level so at what I would call a tonic level it's kind of what we could just refer to it's kind of what we could just refer to it's kind of what we could just refer to as a baseline level of dopamine neurons as a baseline level of dopamine neurons as a baseline level of dopamine neurons firing in the background just firing off firing in the background just firing off firing in the background just firing off Action potentials electrical signals Action potentials electrical signals Action potentials electrical signals releasing dopamine into the various releasing dopamine into the various releasing dopamine into the various circuits that they're trying to modulate circuits that they're trying to modulate circuits that they're trying to modulate then there are what we can call for sake then there are what we can call for sake then there are what we can call for sake of this conversation dopamine Peaks and of this conversation dopamine Peaks and of this conversation dopamine Peaks and dopamine troughs which are increases in dopamine troughs which are increases in dopamine troughs which are increases in dopamine release that ride on top of dopamine release that ride on top of dopamine release that ride on top of that Baseline and that influence that that Baseline and that influence that that Baseline and that influence that Baseline let's go back to the wave pool Baseline let's go back to the wave pool Baseline let's go back to the wave pool in the wave poool analogy you start with in the wave poool analogy you start with in the wave poool analogy you start with a certain amount of water in this wave a certain amount of water in this wave a certain amount of water in this wave pool and then you start generating waves pool and then you start generating waves pool and then you start generating waves of different amplitudes if the waves are of different amplitudes if the waves are of different amplitudes if the waves are of a particular size well then they rise of a particular size well then they rise of a particular size well then they rise and subside rise and subside and you and subside rise and subside and you and subside rise and subside and you don't actually deplete the total am don't actually deplete the total am don't actually deplete the total am amount of water in this pool okay the
12:00amount of water in this pool okay the amount of water in this pool okay the the Baseline level doesn't change the Baseline level doesn't change the Baseline level doesn't change despite the fact that you have these despite the fact that you have these despite the fact that you have these Peaks and troughs if you get enough Peaks and troughs if you get enough Peaks and troughs if you get enough movement in that pool you get big waves movement in that pool you get big waves movement in that pool you get big waves some starts to Splash out and the total some starts to Splash out and the total some starts to Splash out and the total amount drops in other words the Baseline amount drops in other words the Baseline amount drops in other words the Baseline level of dopamine has dropped or in this level of dopamine has dropped or in this level of dopamine has dropped or in this analogy it's dropped so I like the wave analogy it's dropped so I like the wave analogy it's dropped so I like the wave poool analogy because even though it poool analogy because even though it poool analogy because even though it doesn't embody all of the Dynamics of doesn't embody all of the Dynamics of doesn't embody all of the Dynamics of dopamine it embodies many of them that dopamine it embodies many of them that dopamine it embodies many of them that we can relate to for instance if we take we can relate to for instance if we take we can relate to for instance if we take the extremes of the extremes of the extremes of things that cause massive amounts of things that cause massive amounts of things that cause massive amounts of dopamine release these are typically dopamine release these are typically dopamine release these are typically illicit drugs things like methampetamine illicit drugs things like methampetamine illicit drugs things like methampetamine thousandfold increase in dopamine thousandfold increase in dopamine thousandfold increase in dopamine release um you know cocaine um the release um you know cocaine um the release um you know cocaine um the combination of different highly combination of different highly combination of different highly reinforcing dopamine related activities reinforcing dopamine related activities reinforcing dopamine related activities or drugs so methamphetamine plus sex or drugs so methamphetamine plus sex or drugs so methamphetamine plus sex right this is common in certain right this is common in certain right this is common in certain addictions right um people will take addictions right um people will take addictions right um people will take stimulants like methamphetamine they stimulants like methamphetamine they stimulants like methamphetamine they also engage in sexual activity now
13:00also engage in sexual activity now also engage in sexual activity now you're getting way up past a thousand you're getting way up past a thousand you're getting way up past a thousand it's not always additive but it often it's not always additive but it often it's not always additive but it often can be additive or even synergistic what can be additive or even synergistic what can be additive or even synergistic what happens under those conditions well happens under those conditions well happens under those conditions well neurons in the let's just call it the neurons in the let's just call it the neurons in the let's just call it the motivation and reward pathway are motivation and reward pathway are motivation and reward pathway are releasing massive amounts of dopamine releasing massive amounts of dopamine releasing massive amounts of dopamine sometimes to the extent that the readily sometimes to the extent that the readily sometimes to the extent that the readily releasable pool of vesicles or sometimes releasable pool of vesicles or sometimes releasable pool of vesicles or sometimes called vesicles in the US of the little called vesicles in the US of the little called vesicles in the US of the little um spheres filled with with um spheres filled with with um spheres filled with with neuromodulator dopamine actually get neuromodulator dopamine actually get neuromodulator dopamine actually get depleted and the neurons need to man depleted and the neurons need to man depleted and the neurons need to man manufacture more and that takes time manufacture more and that takes time manufacture more and that takes time before more can be be created there can before more can be be created there can before more can be be created there can also be neurotoxicity where the neurons also be neurotoxicity where the neurons also be neurotoxicity where the neurons actually are killed off although that's actually are killed off although that's actually are killed off although that's in more extreme cases so what we're in more extreme cases so what we're in more extreme cases so what we're talking about here are drugs of abuse talking about here are drugs of abuse talking about here are drugs of abuse like methamphetamine cocaine combination like methamphetamine cocaine combination like methamphetamine cocaine combination of dopamine releasing of dopamine releasing of dopamine releasing activities sometimes drugs sometimes sex activities sometimes drugs sometimes sex activities sometimes drugs sometimes sex sometimes video games in excess plus sometimes video games in excess plus sometimes video games in excess plus maybe compounds like atol viance Etc maybe compounds like atol viance Etc maybe compounds like atol viance Etc which clearly increase dopamine release which clearly increase dopamine release which clearly increase dopamine release and then what happens is some hours
14:00and then what happens is some hours and then what happens is some hours later or days later depending on the later or days later depending on the later or days later depending on the frequency of the activity the reservoir frequency of the activity the reservoir frequency of the activity the reservoir the pool is essentially lowered its the pool is essentially lowered its the pool is essentially lowered its overall level so now in order to overall level so now in order to overall level so now in order to generate waves of equivalent size or generate waves of equivalent size or generate waves of equivalent size or even smaller size you need a lot more even smaller size you need a lot more even smaller size you need a lot more let's say movement what is that movement let's say movement what is that movement let's say movement what is that movement well typically that's the pursuit of well typically that's the pursuit of well typically that's the pursuit of more reinforcing stimula but guess what more reinforcing stimula but guess what more reinforcing stimula but guess what with dopamine depleted that becomes with dopamine depleted that becomes with dopamine depleted that becomes harder to generate and so hopefully I've harder to generate and so hopefully I've harder to generate and so hopefully I've created a picture here this is obviously created a picture here this is obviously created a picture here this is obviously a kind of cartoon picture of dopamine a kind of cartoon picture of dopamine a kind of cartoon picture of dopamine Dynamics it's not quantitative in any Dynamics it's not quantitative in any Dynamics it's not quantitative in any way way but what it essentially says is way way but what it essentially says is way way but what it essentially says is Big dopamine Peaks lead to lots of Big dopamine Peaks lead to lots of Big dopamine Peaks lead to lots of dopamine release and then what we know dopamine release and then what we know dopamine release and then what we know is that the dopamine levels that follow is that the dopamine levels that follow is that the dopamine levels that follow those Peaks drop below Baseline and if those Peaks drop below Baseline and if those Peaks drop below Baseline and if the Peaks are high enough they will the Peaks are high enough they will the Peaks are high enough they will deplete that Baseline but remember we deplete that Baseline but remember we deplete that Baseline but remember we said that the dopamine pool is said that the dopamine pool is said that the dopamine pool is depletable but replenishable how is it depletable but replenishable how is it depletable but replenishable how is it replenishable with time and with either replenishable with time and with either replenishable with time and with either lower or no dopamine Peaks so if we step lower or no dopamine Peaks so if we step lower or no dopamine Peaks so if we step back from from real life um and we look
15:00back from from real life um and we look back from from real life um and we look at it and we can say okay if I pick up at it and we can say okay if I pick up at it and we can say okay if I pick up my phone and I'm scrolling on Instagram my phone and I'm scrolling on Instagram my phone and I'm scrolling on Instagram highly reinforcing Behavior I mean highly reinforcing Behavior I mean highly reinforcing Behavior I mean videos and images are so powerful to us videos and images are so powerful to us videos and images are so powerful to us I mean a few years ago there was a a I mean a few years ago there was a a I mean a few years ago there was a a hack that I think Tim Ferris put out on hack that I think Tim Ferris put out on hack that I think Tim Ferris put out on his podcast if you shift your phone to his podcast if you shift your phone to his podcast if you shift your phone to black and white mode grayscale I mean black and white mode grayscale I mean black and white mode grayscale I mean all that stuff becomes far less all that stuff becomes far less all that stuff becomes far less reinforcing you kind of don't want to reinforcing you kind of don't want to reinforcing you kind of don't want to look at the thing you shift it back to look at the thing you shift it back to look at the thing you shift it back to full color and it's like wao it's it's full color and it's like wao it's it's full color and it's like wao it's it's just so much more compelling so you're just so much more compelling so you're just so much more compelling so you're scrolling you're seeing things and yeah scrolling you're seeing things and yeah scrolling you're seeing things and yeah if you see something that you really if you see something that you really if you see something that you really really like maybe an animal video that really like maybe an animal video that really like maybe an animal video that you really like in my case then sure you really like in my case then sure you really like in my case then sure there's very likely to be some dopamine there's very likely to be some dopamine there's very likely to be some dopamine release is it going to deplete the release is it going to deplete the release is it going to deplete the Baseline of dopamine unlikely but if you Baseline of dopamine unlikely but if you Baseline of dopamine unlikely but if you engage in that activity for many many engage in that activity for many many engage in that activity for many many hours you could imagine that it might we hours you could imagine that it might we hours you could imagine that it might we don't have exact data on this certainly don't have exact data on this certainly don't have exact data on this certainly if you're combining any kind of if you're combining any kind of if you're combining any kind of stimulants that tap into the dopamine stimulants that tap into the dopamine stimulants that tap into the dopamine system this is going to happen certainly system this is going to happen certainly system this is going to happen certainly if you're engaging A drugs of abuse or if you're engaging A drugs of abuse or if you're engaging A drugs of abuse or just a lot of you know exciting High just a lot of you know exciting High just a lot of you know exciting High amplitude activity it makes other things amplitude activity it makes other things amplitude activity it makes other things seem more boring because actually
16:00seem more boring because actually seem more boring because actually relative to what was going on relative to what was going on relative to what was going on neurochemically it is more boring the neurochemically it is more boring the neurochemically it is more boring the brain doesn't have a sense of exciting brain doesn't have a sense of exciting brain doesn't have a sense of exciting and boring it doesn't have a sense of and boring it doesn't have a sense of and boring it doesn't have a sense of motivated amotivated in the subjective motivated amotivated in the subjective motivated amotivated in the subjective sense it has a correlation between the sense it has a correlation between the sense it has a correlation between the activity of these dopamine circuits and activity of these dopamine circuits and activity of these dopamine circuits and other circuits but certainly these other circuits but certainly these other circuits but certainly these dopamine circuits and some subjective dopamine circuits and some subjective dopamine circuits and some subjective feeling of either desire to engage AK feeling of either desire to engage AK feeling of either desire to engage AK movement or lack of desire to engage movement or lack of desire to engage movement or lack of desire to engage such as you know just kind of apathy and such as you know just kind of apathy and such as you know just kind of apathy and just feeling like hey there's nothing just feeling like hey there's nothing just feeling like hey there's nothing here for me but here I am continuing to here for me but here I am continuing to here for me but here I am continuing to engage in this activity over and over engage in this activity over and over engage in this activity over and over and we know that with most all drugs of and we know that with most all drugs of and we know that with most all drugs of abuse but certainly with anything that abuse but certainly with anything that abuse but certainly with anything that releases dopamine there's nothing quite releases dopamine there's nothing quite releases dopamine there's nothing quite like the first time and that these like the first time and that these like the first time and that these circuits actually learn they can become circuits actually learn they can become circuits actually learn they can become reinforced in the sense that they build reinforced in the sense that they build reinforced in the sense that they build up strength between particular synapses up strength between particular synapses up strength between particular synapses and things of that sort so that we and things of that sort so that we and things of that sort so that we continue to in a seemingly logical way continue to in a seemingly logical way continue to in a seemingly logical way go back to the original behaviors trying go back to the original behaviors trying go back to the original behaviors trying again and again hitting that lever again and again hitting that lever again and again hitting that lever hitting that lever trying to get back to
17:00hitting that lever trying to get back to hitting that lever trying to get back to that similar State and just like a slot that similar State and just like a slot that similar State and just like a slot machine every once in a while we get machine every once in a while we get machine every once in a while we get what we're looking for and the whole what we're looking for and the whole what we're looking for and the whole thing is further reinforced now that's thing is further reinforced now that's thing is further reinforced now that's all painting a very Sinister and kind of all painting a very Sinister and kind of all painting a very Sinister and kind of dark image of the dopamine system and I dark image of the dopamine system and I dark image of the dopamine system and I want to be clear that this wave poool want to be clear that this wave poool want to be clear that this wave poool analogy doesn't have any veence to it analogy doesn't have any veence to it analogy doesn't have any veence to it positive or negative it's just one positive or negative it's just one positive or negative it's just one analogy for how the system works in a analogy for how the system works in a analogy for how the system works in a different frame if you understand that different frame if you understand that different frame if you understand that you have some baseline level of you have some baseline level of you have some baseline level of motivation desire to move cognitively motivation desire to move cognitively motivation desire to move cognitively physically and you understand a bit physically and you understand a bit physically and you understand a bit about how these dopamine Peaks and about how these dopamine Peaks and about how these dopamine Peaks and troughs work well then you can work with troughs work well then you can work with troughs work well then you can work with it I believe you actually can leverage it I believe you actually can leverage it I believe you actually can leverage it so that things like procrastination it so that things like procrastination it so that things like procrastination become less likely so that you can become less likely so that you can become less likely so that you can engage in social media in a meaningful engage in social media in a meaningful engage in social media in a meaningful and positive way but then know okay you and positive way but then know okay you and positive way but then know okay you I'm going to put it away now and I'm I'm going to put it away now and I'm I'm going to put it away now and I'm going to take some of that um elevated going to take some of that um elevated going to take some of that um elevated arousal that I feel and put it towards arousal that I feel and put it towards arousal that I feel and put it towards some other you know enriching activities some other you know enriching activities some other you know enriching activities there there's nothing good or bad about there there's nothing good or bad about there there's nothing good or bad about dopamine and we shouldn't fear it it's dopamine and we shouldn't fear it it's dopamine and we shouldn't fear it it's really about understanding the the really about understanding the the really about understanding the the underlying Dynamics and that if we've underlying Dynamics and that if we've underlying Dynamics and that if we've taken ourselves to a place where we we taken ourselves to a place where we we taken ourselves to a place where we we are just depleted where that Baseline are just depleted where that Baseline are just depleted where that Baseline line the the level of water in that wave
18:00line the the level of water in that wave line the the level of water in that wave pool is way down because we've had these pool is way down because we've had these pool is way down because we've had these huge waves huge waves huge waves well huge waves huge waves huge waves well huge waves huge waves huge waves well then we need to be patient we just need then we need to be patient we just need then we need to be patient we just need to wait in and expect that at some point to wait in and expect that at some point to wait in and expect that at some point pleasure and motivation will return but pleasure and motivation will return but pleasure and motivation will return but that we need to wait a period of time as that we need to wait a period of time as that we need to wait a period of time as opposed to what most people do which is opposed to what most people do which is opposed to what most people do which is to go pursue things to get them out of to go pursue things to get them out of to go pursue things to get them out of that somewhat you know subdued state so that somewhat you know subdued state so that somewhat you know subdued state so I have a few questions first of all um a I have a few questions first of all um a I have a few questions first of all um a big thanks to Dr Gillette for that big thanks to Dr Gillette for that big thanks to Dr Gillette for that amazing analogy I love it too it it's it amazing analogy I love it too it it's it amazing analogy I love it too it it's it really makes it a lot easier to really makes it a lot easier to really makes it a lot easier to understand this this dopamine systems understand this this dopamine systems understand this this dopamine systems like working in a general sense at least like working in a general sense at least like working in a general sense at least um maintaining the steady Baseline um maintaining the steady Baseline um maintaining the steady Baseline levels it sounded like it's not so easy levels it sounded like it's not so easy levels it sounded like it's not so easy to deplete the Baseline unless you're to deplete the Baseline unless you're to deplete the Baseline unless you're really going after something that's really going after something that's really going after something that's either a substance that could really either a substance that could really either a substance that could really sort of increase your your your dopamine sort of increase your your your dopamine sort of increase your your your dopamine in combination maybe with other in combination maybe with other in combination maybe with other enjoyable things as well um is the enjoyable things as well um is the enjoyable things as well um is the effort that you're putting in so like effort that you're putting in so like effort that you're putting in so like you are preparing for a a long-term like you are preparing for a a long-term like you are preparing for a a long-term like let's say you're preparing for a wedding let's say you're preparing for a wedding let's say you're preparing for a wedding or something big or a party and you put
19:00or something big or a party and you put or something big or a party and you put in all this effort and planning you know in all this effort and planning you know in all this effort and planning you know for a month and then you have the party for a month and then you have the party for a month and then you have the party and it's fun it's great everyone has a and it's fun it's great everyone has a and it's fun it's great everyone has a great time it's a fun party and the great time it's a fun party and the great time it's a fun party and the part's over and then you feel kind of part's over and then you feel kind of part's over and then you feel kind of depressed like do events like can you depressed like do events like can you depressed like do events like can you deplete your Baseline levels just from deplete your Baseline levels just from deplete your Baseline levels just from like putting in like like having an like putting in like like having an like putting in like like having an event like that or is that effort that I event like that or is that effort that I event like that or is that effort that I put in kind of going to Shield me from put in kind of going to Shield me from put in kind of going to Shield me from the the drop in those Baseline levels the the drop in those Baseline levels the the drop in those Baseline levels yeah well the simple answer is the yeah well the simple answer is the yeah well the simple answer is the latter latter latter that dopamine that follows effort is that dopamine that follows effort is that dopamine that follows effort is generally good for us one would hope peaks in dopamine that don't require effort are effort are effort are dangerous drugs of abuse do this one dangerous drugs of abuse do this one dangerous drugs of abuse do this one pill one shot and you've got a pill one shot and you've got a pill one shot and you've got a thousandfold increase in dopamine thousandfold increase in dopamine release that's release that's release that's that's scary because that's not the way
20:00that's scary because that's not the way that's scary because that's not the way the system was designed to work under the system was designed to work under the system was designed to work under normal conditions right these are drugs normal conditions right these are drugs normal conditions right these are drugs that sure might you know mimic certain that sure might you know mimic certain that sure might you know mimic certain compounds in nature but let's face it compounds in nature but let's face it compounds in nature but let's face it these circuits that we're talking about these circuits that we're talking about these circuits that we're talking about evolved for the pursuit of particular evolved for the pursuit of particular evolved for the pursuit of particular rewarding activities mainly centered rewarding activities mainly centered rewarding activities mainly centered around food and reproduction okay and around food and reproduction okay and around food and reproduction okay and keeping a safe avoiding extremes of keeping a safe avoiding extremes of keeping a safe avoiding extremes of temperature Etc so I think the the temperature Etc so I think the the temperature Etc so I think the the critical thing is that well in the critical thing is that well in the critical thing is that well in the example you gave you know a lot of example you gave you know a lot of example you gave you know a lot of effort put toward planning a wedding and effort put toward planning a wedding and effort put toward planning a wedding and then hopefully a wonderful wedding that then hopefully a wonderful wedding that then hopefully a wonderful wedding that is all goodness that is all goodness in is all goodness that is all goodness in is all goodness that is all goodness in the sense that there's going to be the sense that there's going to be the sense that there's going to be dopamine released as one is making plans dopamine released as one is making plans dopamine released as one is making plans see the invitations you like the see the invitations you like the see the invitations you like the invitations maybe there's a dispute you invitations maybe there's a dispute you invitations maybe there's a dispute you resolve the dispute which by the way resolve the dispute which by the way resolve the dispute which by the way remember the removal of a negative remember the removal of a negative remember the removal of a negative stimulus also dope I mean great we're stimulus also dope I mean great we're stimulus also dope I mean great we're back on track we're doing all this and back on track we're doing all this and back on track we're doing all this and then wedding goes fantastically well then wedding goes fantastically well then wedding goes fantastically well maybe one glitch okay great and you have maybe one glitch okay great and you have maybe one glitch okay great and you have the photos and the memories all of that
21:00the photos and the memories all of that the photos and the memories all of that is great if the next day or in the days is great if the next day or in the days is great if the next day or in the days following people feel a bit of a low a following people feel a bit of a low a following people feel a bit of a low a bit of a postpartum type low that could bit of a postpartum type low that could bit of a postpartum type low that could be related to a drop in the dopamine be related to a drop in the dopamine be related to a drop in the dopamine level more likely it's fatigue it's also level more likely it's fatigue it's also level more likely it's fatigue it's also anticipation itself breeds this own kind anticipation itself breeds this own kind anticipation itself breeds this own kind of um let down once something follows I of um let down once something follows I of um let down once something follows I mean this is the nature of you know true mean this is the nature of you know true mean this is the nature of you know true clinical postpartum depression where you clinical postpartum depression where you clinical postpartum depression where you know post child birth this is a real know post child birth this is a real know post child birth this is a real clinical syndrome as we know that clinical syndrome as we know that clinical syndrome as we know that sometimes people um deal with sometimes people um deal with sometimes people um deal with unfortunately and needs to be taken unfortunately and needs to be taken unfortunately and needs to be taken really really really seriously but in the kind of more seriously but in the kind of more seriously but in the kind of more popular use of of the word postpartum popular use of of the word postpartum popular use of of the word postpartum depression where you know post- wedding depression where you know post- wedding depression where you know post- wedding postgraduation it's the shift in arousal postgraduation it's the shift in arousal postgraduation it's the shift in arousal state from anticipation and higher state from anticipation and higher state from anticipation and higher arousal what's next I'm excited about arousal what's next I'm excited about arousal what's next I'm excited about what's next what's going to happen to I what's next what's going to happen to I what's next what's going to happen to I don't know what's going to happen what don't know what's going to happen what don't know what's going to happen what now it's the what now kind of um now it's the what now kind of um now it's the what now kind of um circuitry so I think that when it comes circuitry so I think that when it comes circuitry so I think that when it comes to understanding one's own dopamine to understanding one's own dopamine to understanding one's own dopamine system there are a couple things to pay system there are a couple things to pay system there are a couple things to pay attention to first of all we all wake up
22:00attention to first of all we all wake up attention to first of all we all wake up in the morning depending on how we slept in the morning depending on how we slept in the morning depending on how we slept but let's assume our typical good night but let's assume our typical good night but let's assume our typical good night sleep for us you know I need 7 hours sleep for us you know I need 7 hours sleep for us you know I need 7 hours some other people need eight hours some other people need eight hours some other people need eight hours others nine you know what is your level others nine you know what is your level others nine you know what is your level of positive anticipation about things to of positive anticipation about things to of positive anticipation about things to come even if those are deadlines or come even if those are deadlines or come even if those are deadlines or things that you might not want to do so things that you might not want to do so things that you might not want to do so much how much get up and go do you have much how much get up and go do you have much how much get up and go do you have right I move a bit slowly in the morning right I move a bit slowly in the morning right I move a bit slowly in the morning but once you're fully alert how much get but once you're fully alert how much get but once you're fully alert how much get up and go do you have you know that one up and go do you have you know that one up and go do you have you know that one of the classic signs of depression is of the classic signs of depression is of the classic signs of depression is early morning waking that's one one the early morning waking that's one one the early morning waking that's one one the other is a lack of positive anticipation other is a lack of positive anticipation other is a lack of positive anticipation about future events classic depression about future events classic depression about future events classic depression symptom the dopamine system might be symptom the dopamine system might be symptom the dopamine system might be involved in either or both cases but involved in either or both cases but involved in either or both cases but what is the sort of classic what is the sort of classic what is the sort of classic representation of a positive highly representation of a positive highly representation of a positive highly motivated person it's somebody who is motivated person it's somebody who is motivated person it's somebody who is eager to move like that the ability and eager to move like that the ability and eager to move like that the ability and the desire to move into action I was I the desire to move into action I was I the desire to move into action I was I borrowed this from a friend who was a borrowed this from a friend who was a borrowed this from a friend who was a former Seal Team guy he always said you former Seal Team guy he always said you former Seal Team guy he always said you know in everything in life you can know in everything in life you can know in everything in life you can either be back on your heels flat footed either be back on your heels flat footed either be back on your heels flat footed or forward Center of mass how much
23:00or forward Center of mass how much or forward Center of mass how much forward Center of mass how much goggin forward Center of mass how much goggin forward Center of mass how much goggin do you have in you or Joo do you have in do you have in you or Joo do you have in do you have in you or Joo do you have in you or Rhonda do you have in you at any you or Rhonda do you have in you at any you or Rhonda do you have in you at any given moment Rogan too these you know given moment Rogan too these you know given moment Rogan too these you know you all seem to have so much motivation you all seem to have so much motivation you all seem to have so much motivation and I think that's I know that's why and I think that's I know that's why and I think that's I know that's why many people are inspired to pay many people are inspired to pay many people are inspired to pay attention to the things you say it's attention to the things you say it's attention to the things you say it's also the underlying Spirit of pursuit also the underlying Spirit of pursuit also the underlying Spirit of pursuit it's exciting to us other people have it's exciting to us other people have it's exciting to us other people have more of a of a kind of layback and more of a of a kind of layback and more of a of a kind of layback and observe mannerism and I do believe that observe mannerism and I do believe that observe mannerism and I do believe that they too could have perfectly fine they too could have perfectly fine they too could have perfectly fine levels of dopamine they're just more levels of dopamine they're just more levels of dopamine they're just more observant in the way they they take in observant in the way they they take in observant in the way they they take in life and which is not to say any of the life and which is not to say any of the life and which is not to say any of the other people I just mentioned are not other people I just mentioned are not other people I just mentioned are not observant but you know there's a there's observant but you know there's a there's observant but you know there's a there's this business of cognitive movement or this business of cognitive movement or this business of cognitive movement or this phenomenon of cognitive movement this phenomenon of cognitive movement this phenomenon of cognitive movement where we aren't necessarily in movement where we aren't necessarily in movement where we aren't necessarily in movement in our bodies but we are reading in our bodies but we are reading in our bodies but we are reading voraciously we are thinking voraciously voraciously we are thinking voraciously voraciously we are thinking voraciously we are deconstructing ideas and being we are deconstructing ideas and being we are deconstructing ideas and being reflective all of those patterns of what reflective all of those patterns of what reflective all of those patterns of what I'm calling movement cognitive or I'm calling movement cognitive or I'm calling movement cognitive or physical reflect underlying firing off physical reflect underlying firing off physical reflect underlying firing off of dopamine neurons it's when we have a
24:00of dopamine neurons it's when we have a of dopamine neurons it's when we have a goal in the short or long term and we goal in the short or long term and we goal in the short or long term and we are focused on that goal that the are focused on that goal that the are focused on that goal that the dopamine system really becomes active to dopamine system really becomes active to dopamine system really becomes active to generate these big Peaks okay it's it's generate these big Peaks okay it's it's generate these big Peaks okay it's it's this oh I'm going to get you know the this oh I'm going to get you know the this oh I'm going to get you know the company's going to IPO or um if people company's going to IPO or um if people company's going to IPO or um if people post on Instagram and they start getting post on Instagram and they start getting post on Instagram and they start getting a lot of positive feedback like one of a lot of positive feedback like one of a lot of positive feedback like one of their Clips happens to go viral or their Clips happens to go viral or their Clips happens to go viral or something in a positive way it's like something in a positive way it's like something in a positive way it's like whoa you know it's this thing like oh my whoa you know it's this thing like oh my whoa you know it's this thing like oh my God it's like raining down on them or God it's like raining down on them or God it's like raining down on them or from within them rather in the same way from within them rather in the same way from within them rather in the same way that the slot machine and you know in that the slot machine and you know in that the slot machine and you know in Vegas it's you know the bells are going Vegas it's you know the bells are going Vegas it's you know the bells are going off and you hear the coins just dropping off and you hear the coins just dropping off and you hear the coins just dropping Ting tingting tingting there's all this Ting tingting tingting there's all this Ting tingting tingting there's all this excitement about here here it comes here excitement about here here it comes here excitement about here here it comes here comes the rewards here comes the rewards comes the rewards here comes the rewards comes the rewards here comes the rewards that process as I mentioned before is that process as I mentioned before is that process as I mentioned before is not just quote unquote rewarding it not just quote unquote rewarding it not just quote unquote rewarding it reinforces the circuitry that led to reinforces the circuitry that led to reinforces the circuitry that led to that behavior in a very powerful way it that behavior in a very powerful way it that behavior in a very powerful way it actually strengthens through actually strengthens through actually strengthens through neuroplasticity it strengthens the very neuroplasticity it strengthens the very neuroplasticity it strengthens the very underlying circuits and the brain is underlying circuits and the brain is underlying circuits and the brain is either conscious or unconsciously or either conscious or unconsciously or either conscious or unconsciously or both will go back and repeat that
25:00both will go back and repeat that both will go back and repeat that behavior over and over again in order to behavior over and over again in order to behavior over and over again in order to try and get back there even if we're not try and get back there even if we're not try and get back there even if we're not aware that we're doing it and so what I aware that we're doing it and so what I aware that we're doing it and so what I find so interesting about the dopamine find so interesting about the dopamine find so interesting about the dopamine system is that it can create its own system is that it can create its own system is that it can create its own plasticity feedback form plasticity okay plasticity feedback form plasticity okay plasticity feedback form plasticity okay there are a number of different um you there are a number of different um you there are a number of different um you know specific uh Cellar events that know specific uh Cellar events that know specific uh Cellar events that underly that but what it's essentially underly that but what it's essentially underly that but what it's essentially trying to do is know where the water is trying to do is know where the water is trying to do is know where the water is where the mates are where the warm where the mates are where the warm where the mates are where the warm locations are for when we're too cool locations are for when we're too cool locations are for when we're too cool and where the cool locations are from and where the cool locations are from and where the cool locations are from when we're too warm it's learning all when we're too warm it's learning all when we're too warm it's learning all that but less than recording the that but less than recording the that but less than recording the specific locations like the hippocampus specific locations like the hippocampus specific locations like the hippocampus would or place that into the cortex it's would or place that into the cortex it's would or place that into the cortex it's trying to remember the algorithms that trying to remember the algorithms that trying to remember the algorithms that led to specific patterns of mental or led to specific patterns of mental or led to specific patterns of mental or physical movement that allowed that so physical movement that allowed that so physical movement that allowed that so if we step back I mean I hate to beat up if we step back I mean I hate to beat up if we step back I mean I hate to beat up on social media because you and I both on social media because you and I both on social media because you and I both teach on social media and I love social teach on social media and I love social teach on social media and I love social media it has to be you know controlled media it has to be you know controlled media it has to be you know controlled but I love it but if we engage in social but I love it but if we engage in social but I love it but if we engage in social media and we get some positive feedback media and we get some positive feedback media and we get some positive feedback we've reinforced it an unconscious level we've reinforced it an unconscious level we've reinforced it an unconscious level all sorts of circuitries that lead us to
26:00all sorts of circuitries that lead us to all sorts of circuitries that lead us to think oh yeah you know I posted that think oh yeah you know I posted that think oh yeah you know I posted that this one time and I remember it was that this one time and I remember it was that this one time and I remember it was that was a text post the other one was a was a text post the other one was a was a text post the other one was a slide that was a video and your brain is slide that was a video and your brain is slide that was a video and your brain is trying to learn the patterns that got trying to learn the patterns that got trying to learn the patterns that got you where you were before and it worked you where you were before and it worked you where you were before and it worked out so well so the dopamine system can out so well so the dopamine system can out so well so the dopamine system can learn the dopamine system can adjust its learn the dopamine system can adjust its learn the dopamine system can adjust its Baseline the the dopamine system can can Baseline the the dopamine system can can Baseline the the dopamine system can can create these Peaks and then we shouldn't create these Peaks and then we shouldn't create these Peaks and then we shouldn't forget about the anticipation aspect of forget about the anticipation aspect of forget about the anticipation aspect of it itself which is what's called reward it itself which is what's called reward it itself which is what's called reward prediction error is a classic experiment prediction error is a classic experiment prediction error is a classic experiment where where where essentially it was discovered that essentially it was discovered that essentially it was discovered that dopamine is being released and root to a dopamine is being released and root to a dopamine is being released and root to a reward while a monkey or human is reward while a monkey or human is reward while a monkey or human is working for a reward and that was itself working for a reward and that was itself working for a reward and that was itself was a cool Discovery I was like Wow was a cool Discovery I was like Wow was a cool Discovery I was like Wow dopamine isn't just you know when the dopamine isn't just you know when the dopamine isn't just you know when the monkey gets the juice or when the person monkey gets the juice or when the person monkey gets the juice or when the person gets the monetary Ward it's when they gets the monetary Ward it's when they gets the monetary Ward it's when they think they're on the right path or they think they're on the right path or they think they're on the right path or they might get a reward that's when might get a reward that's when might get a reward that's when dopamine's released then they get the dopamine's released then they get the dopamine's released then they get the reward if the reward is equal to or in reward if the reward is equal to or in reward if the reward is equal to or in excess of what they anticipated boom excess of what they anticipated boom excess of what they anticipated boom they get a bit more dopamine what better they get a bit more dopamine what better they get a bit more dopamine what better way to reinforce a behavior at the way to reinforce a behavior at the way to reinforce a behavior at the neural level but if the reward is less
27:00neural level but if the reward is less neural level but if the reward is less exciting or less money or less intense exciting or less money or less intense exciting or less money or less intense than what anticipates what happens than what anticipates what happens than what anticipates what happens dopamine levels drop and then they drop dopamine levels drop and then they drop dopamine levels drop and then they drop below below below Baseline when they are on their way to Baseline when they are on their way to Baseline when they are on their way to eventually returning to Baseline and the eventually returning to Baseline and the eventually returning to Baseline and the duration of that duration of that duration of that drop is proportional to how high the drop is proportional to how high the drop is proportional to how high the peak was so it's like you can imagine peak was so it's like you can imagine peak was so it's like you can imagine you know planning the wedding planning you know planning the wedding planning you know planning the wedding planning the wedding planning the weding plenty the wedding planning the weding plenty the wedding planning the weding plenty of dopamine and then rainy day of dopamine and then rainy day of dopamine and then rainy day thunderstorm oh goodness well hopefully thunderstorm oh goodness well hopefully thunderstorm oh goodness well hopefully people are adaptable and they adjust to people are adaptable and they adjust to people are adaptable and they adjust to that but it's such a bigger let down if that but it's such a bigger let down if that but it's such a bigger let down if you put in all this effort it's such a you put in all this effort it's such a you put in all this effort it's such a bigger let down if you thought it was bigger let down if you thought it was bigger let down if you thought it was going to be great because well the peak going to be great because well the peak going to be great because well the peak was bigger or the the the sort of slope was bigger or the the the sort of slope was bigger or the the the sort of slope rather was steeper and the slope of the rather was steeper and the slope of the rather was steeper and the slope of the decline of dopamine is also going to be decline of dopamine is also going to be decline of dopamine is also going to be steeper so not all of this works out to steeper so not all of this works out to steeper so not all of this works out to perfect math when it comes to you know perfect math when it comes to you know perfect math when it comes to you know the Dynamics of dopamine but by by and the Dynamics of dopamine but by by and the Dynamics of dopamine but by by and large dopamine reward prediction error
28:00large dopamine reward prediction error large dopamine reward prediction error says if you think something's going to says if you think something's going to says if you think something's going to be great it better be that great or be great it better be that great or be great it better be that great or greater um to reinforce the behaviors greater um to reinforce the behaviors greater um to reinforce the behaviors that came first if you think something's that came first if you think something's that came first if you think something's going to be great and it's less great or going to be great and it's less great or going to be great and it's less great or not great at all or even punishing well not great at all or even punishing well not great at all or even punishing well then it's going to send signals to alter then it's going to send signals to alter then it's going to send signals to alter the circuitry in a way that says the circuitry in a way that says the circuitry in a way that says whatever you did to get there don't do whatever you did to get there don't do whatever you did to get there don't do it again it's going to discourage you it again it's going to discourage you it again it's going to discourage you you you talked about um people that have you you talked about um people that have you you talked about um people that have this sort of intrinsic motivation right this sort of intrinsic motivation right this sort of intrinsic motivation right where it's like they're motivated to do where it's like they're motivated to do where it's like they're motivated to do they have that they have that maybe even they have that they have that maybe even they have that they have that maybe even just initial motivation and then they just initial motivation and then they just initial motivation and then they they have that intrinsic motivation to they have that intrinsic motivation to they have that intrinsic motivation to sort of carry it through that effort um sort of carry it through that effort um sort of carry it through that effort um can you talk a little bit about the can you talk a little bit about the can you talk a little bit about the differences between the motivation and differences between the motivation and differences between the motivation and effort I often like it's very easy to effort I often like it's very easy to effort I often like it's very easy to confuse them but you know some people confuse them but you know some people confuse them but you know some people have a really hard time even if they have a really hard time even if they have a really hard time even if they want to do something like like I want to want to do something like like I want to want to do something like like I want to do this thing but I just can't put that do this thing but I just can't put that do this thing but I just can't put that cognitive effort into do it like are cognitive effort into do it like are cognitive effort into do it like are there any little you know ways that there any little you know ways that there any little you know ways that people can using the understanding of people can using the understanding of people can using the understanding of this dopamine system help themselves to this dopamine system help themselves to this dopamine system help themselves to kind of push through and and put that kind of push through and and put that kind of push through and and put that effort in yeah great great question and
29:00effort in yeah great great question and effort in yeah great great question and it starts to get a little bit complex in it starts to get a little bit complex in it starts to get a little bit complex in ways that make it hard for me to tack ways that make it hard for me to tack ways that make it hard for me to tack you know specific cellular phenomenon you know specific cellular phenomenon you know specific cellular phenomenon too but but I'll do my best so dopamine too but but I'll do my best so dopamine too but but I'll do my best so dopamine is one of the catacol amines it's it's is one of the catacol amines it's it's is one of the catacol amines it's it's part of a a group of cousin molecules um part of a a group of cousin molecules um part of a a group of cousin molecules um dopamine being one epinephrine also dopamine being one epinephrine also dopamine being one epinephrine also called adrenaline and norepinephrine called adrenaline and norepinephrine called adrenaline and norepinephrine also called nor adrenaline these are also called nor adrenaline these are also called nor adrenaline these are released both in the brain and body from released both in the brain and body from released both in the brain and body from the adrenals from in the case of the adrenals from in the case of the adrenals from in the case of norepinephrine from a brain area called norepinephrine from a brain area called norepinephrine from a brain area called the locus culus which releases the locus culus which releases the locus culus which releases norepinephrine in kind of a sprinkler norepinephrine in kind of a sprinkler norepinephrine in kind of a sprinkler likee manner into the brain although it likee manner into the brain although it likee manner into the brain although it can direct the release of norepinephrine can direct the release of norepinephrine can direct the release of norepinephrine as well and of course all this stuff is as well and of course all this stuff is as well and of course all this stuff is active and released from neurons in our active and released from neurons in our active and released from neurons in our body as well it's not a coincidence it body as well it's not a coincidence it body as well it's not a coincidence it can't be a coincidence that these three can't be a coincidence that these three can't be a coincidence that these three neurochemicals which by the way are very neurochemicals which by the way are very neurochemicals which by the way are very similar to one another and actually are similar to one another and actually are similar to one another and actually are manufactured from one another manufactured from one another manufactured from one another biochemically it's very interesting biochemically it's very interesting biochemically it's very interesting people can go look up you know how is uh people can go look up you know how is uh people can go look up you know how is uh epinephrine made how is dopamine made epinephrine made how is dopamine made epinephrine made how is dopamine made and you'll see that the molecules are and you'll see that the molecules are and you'll see that the molecules are actually made essentially from each actually made essentially from each actually made essentially from each other you know they're cleat by enzymes other you know they're cleat by enzymes other you know they're cleat by enzymes and there's various um changes there but
30:00and there's various um changes there but and there's various um changes there but um they work together to create um they work together to create um they work together to create motivation and to heighten focus in the motivation and to heighten focus in the motivation and to heighten focus in the case of or epinephrine and EP case of or epinephrine and EP case of or epinephrine and EP epinephrine in fact these are the same epinephrine in fact these are the same epinephrine in fact these are the same neurochemicals that cause the changes in neurochemicals that cause the changes in neurochemicals that cause the changes in our pupil size under constant our pupil size under constant our pupil size under constant illumination to change the Optics of our illumination to change the Optics of our illumination to change the Optics of our eyes so that we narrow our visual Focus eyes so that we narrow our visual Focus eyes so that we narrow our visual Focus like when if you um people have heard like when if you um people have heard like when if you um people have heard for instance if your pupil get really for instance if your pupil get really for instance if your pupil get really big right that's a state of underlying big right that's a state of underlying big right that's a state of underlying autonomic arousal that leads to a autonomic arousal that leads to a autonomic arousal that leads to a narrower visual window and a heightened narrower visual window and a heightened narrower visual window and a heightened Focus okay um whereas you know a Focus okay um whereas you know a Focus okay um whereas you know a shrinking of the pupils causes something shrinking of the pupils causes something shrinking of the pupils causes something quite different norepinephrine quite different norepinephrine quite different norepinephrine epinephrine and dopamine are involved in epinephrine and dopamine are involved in epinephrine and dopamine are involved in all of that and that's not a coincidence all of that and that's not a coincidence all of that and that's not a coincidence at the same time and I'll answer your at the same time and I'll answer your at the same time and I'll answer your question directly in a moment but you question directly in a moment but you question directly in a moment but you know you said you know some people tend know you said you know some people tend know you said you know some people tend to be highly motivated I'd be curious to to be highly motivated I'd be curious to to be highly motivated I'd be curious to run an experiment I haven't run this run an experiment I haven't run this run an experiment I haven't run this experiment but some people have kind of experiment but some people have kind of experiment but some people have kind of a resting bounce to them they have sort a resting bounce to them they have sort a resting bounce to them they have sort of it looks like they're ready to go
31:00of it looks like they're ready to go of it looks like they're ready to go like they're just like excited they're like they're just like excited they're like they're just like excited they're ready to go other people have a kind of ready to go other people have a kind of ready to go other people have a kind of what looks to be like a more lethargic what looks to be like a more lethargic what looks to be like a more lethargic stance they're more still that can be a stance they're more still that can be a stance they're more still that can be a bit misleading because sometimes they're bit misleading because sometimes they're bit misleading because sometimes they're very active inside you know Still Waters very active inside you know Still Waters very active inside you know Still Waters Run Deep kind of thing um but it is Run Deep kind of thing um but it is Run Deep kind of thing um but it is interesting that some people are very um interesting that some people are very um interesting that some people are very um you know you say hey should we head out you know you say hey should we head out you know you say hey should we head out and they go yeah let's go and they just and they go yeah let's go and they just and they go yeah let's go and they just sort pop out of their seat other people sort pop out of their seat other people sort pop out of their seat other people are kind like you know and this is are kind like you know and this is are kind like you know and this is independent of how tired or or alert we independent of how tired or or alert we independent of how tired or or alert we are kind of thing so I think people idle are kind of thing so I think people idle are kind of thing so I think people idle at different RPM I i' I've noticed that at different RPM I i' I've noticed that at different RPM I i' I've noticed that certainly different dog breeds do that certainly different dog breeds do that certainly different dog breeds do that they've been bred for that I had a they've been bred for that I had a they've been bred for that I had a bulldog low RPM very low RPM we also had bulldog low RPM very low RPM we also had bulldog low RPM very low RPM we also had a pitbull years ago tail was always a pitbull years ago tail was always a pitbull years ago tail was always going higher RPM more likely to engage going higher RPM more likely to engage going higher RPM more likely to engage in spontaneous movement people are like in spontaneous movement people are like in spontaneous movement people are like that too okay so if people lack that too okay so if people lack that too okay so if people lack motivation does that reflect some motivation does that reflect some motivation does that reflect some deficit in the dopamine system sometimes deficit in the dopamine system sometimes deficit in the dopamine system sometimes yes sometimes no what we know is that yes sometimes no what we know is that yes sometimes no what we know is that many people have a hard time initiating many people have a hard time initiating many people have a hard time initiating movement remember that the in the
32:00movement remember that the in the movement remember that the in the Parkinson's patient it's not just Parkinson's patient it's not just Parkinson's patient it's not just resting Tremor that they have you know resting Tremor that they have you know resting Tremor that they have you know lack of smooth movements motor movements lack of smooth movements motor movements lack of smooth movements motor movements they also have a lot of difficulty they also have a lot of difficulty they also have a lot of difficulty initiating movement okay so this is in initiating movement okay so this is in initiating movement okay so this is in the neurons that control movement but the neurons that control movement but the neurons that control movement but it's a similar thing in the motivation it's a similar thing in the motivation it's a similar thing in the motivation realm this is why I keep drawing this realm this is why I keep drawing this realm this is why I keep drawing this parallel between physical movement and parallel between physical movement and parallel between physical movement and mental Movement we don't really have a mental Movement we don't really have a mental Movement we don't really have a better language for it at least not that better language for it at least not that better language for it at least not that I'm aware of but mental movement is the I'm aware of but mental movement is the I'm aware of but mental movement is the motivation to open a book and start motivation to open a book and start motivation to open a book and start reading with a high degree of focus to reading with a high degree of focus to reading with a high degree of focus to take in that information as opposed to take in that information as opposed to take in that information as opposed to you know um kind of opening in like I you know um kind of opening in like I you know um kind of opening in like I don't know I don't want to do this or don't know I don't want to do this or don't know I don't want to do this or you know just kind of not necessarily you know just kind of not necessarily you know just kind of not necessarily apathy but challenges in leaning into apathy but challenges in leaning into apathy but challenges in leaning into mental effort the two things the the two mental effort the two things the the two mental effort the two things the the two things meaning movement and cognitive things meaning movement and cognitive things meaning movement and cognitive movement or Pursuit are both governed by movement or Pursuit are both governed by movement or Pursuit are both governed by the same neurochemical systems these the same neurochemical systems these the same neurochemical systems these three catac colomines mainly dopamine three catac colomines mainly dopamine three catac colomines mainly dopamine with the norepinephrine and epinephrine with the norepinephrine and epinephrine with the norepinephrine and epinephrine being involved in generating Focus other being involved in generating Focus other being involved in generating Focus other system system involved too of course but system system involved too of course but system system involved too of course but this is still true so for people that
33:00this is still true so for people that this is still true so for people that have a hard time getting motivated if we have a hard time getting motivated if we have a hard time getting motivated if we just make it that simple assuming there just make it that simple assuming there just make it that simple assuming there is in some major underlying is in some major underlying is in some major underlying neurochemical or life situation issue neurochemical or life situation issue neurochemical or life situation issue often times it's a lot like exercise often times it's a lot like exercise often times it's a lot like exercise you've probably experienced this that you've probably experienced this that you've probably experienced this that once you get going and once in fact if once you get going and once in fact if once you get going and once in fact if people accept that there's going to be a people accept that there's going to be a people accept that there's going to be a transition phase of maybe 5 to 10 transition phase of maybe 5 to 10 transition phase of maybe 5 to 10 minutes to get the relevant circuits minutes to get the relevant circuits minutes to get the relevant circuits going for focus and for motivation going for focus and for motivation going for focus and for motivation things often get much better very things often get much better very things often get much better very quickly now this is a real problem where quickly now this is a real problem where quickly now this is a real problem where we live in a world where we can go on we live in a world where we can go on we live in a world where we can go on YouTube instantly and sort of get YouTube instantly and sort of get YouTube instantly and sort of get something right away again you get a something right away again you get a something right away again you get a feedback or activation of these circuits feedback or activation of these circuits feedback or activation of these circuits for getting information with essentially for getting information with essentially for getting information with essentially no effort it's a click you just have to no effort it's a click you just have to no effort it's a click you just have to listen I remember a few years back listen I remember a few years back listen I remember a few years back hearing that um it wasn't going to be hearing that um it wasn't going to be hearing that um it wasn't going to be long before people would generally have long before people would generally have long before people would generally have two screens in front of them most of the two screens in front of them most of the two screens in front of them most of the time and I notice nowadays I've got two time and I notice nowadays I've got two time and I notice nowadays I've got two phones and often a computer and then phones and often a computer and then phones and often a computer and then there I mean screens everywhere most there I mean screens everywhere most there I mean screens everywhere most people are are dealing with at least one people are are dealing with at least one people are are dealing with at least one screen all the time often multiple
34:00screen all the time often multiple screen all the time often multiple screens so easy to get information now screens so easy to get information now screens so easy to get information now if you want to sit down and read a book if you want to sit down and read a book if you want to sit down and read a book or listen to an audiobook with a high or listen to an audiobook with a high or listen to an audiobook with a high degree of attention I think if you're degree of attention I think if you're degree of attention I think if you're somebody that doesn't get engaged somebody that doesn't get engaged somebody that doesn't get engaged quickly into quickly into quickly into things telling yourself the truth which things telling yourself the truth which things telling yourself the truth which is that this dopamine system and the is that this dopamine system and the is that this dopamine system and the associated other catac colines take some associated other catac colines take some associated other catac colines take some time to get online for those circuits to time to get online for those circuits to time to get online for those circuits to start firing can be very helpful people start firing can be very helpful people start firing can be very helpful people can realize oh you know my attention and can realize oh you know my attention and can realize oh you know my attention and focus isn't going to be great for the focus isn't going to be great for the focus isn't going to be great for the first fire or 10 minutes in fact it first fire or 10 minutes in fact it first fire or 10 minutes in fact it might feel like it's a bit of kind of might feel like it's a bit of kind of might feel like it's a bit of kind of like there's some friction there feel like there's some friction there feel like there's some friction there feel like maybe my I have brain fog or like maybe my I have brain fog or like maybe my I have brain fog or something like that but after a few something like that but after a few something like that but after a few minutes people often will drop into a minutes people often will drop into a minutes people often will drop into a Groove where then they are in a steady Groove where then they are in a steady Groove where then they are in a steady pursuit of information and then pursuit of information and then pursuit of information and then sometimes it's actually hard for them to sometimes it's actually hard for them to sometimes it's actually hard for them to transition out of it in the same way transition out of it in the same way transition out of it in the same way exercise some people you say hey let's exercise some people you say hey let's exercise some people you say hey let's go out for a hike and they're like let's go out for a hike and they're like let's go out for a hike and they're like let's do it other people you know you need to do it other people you know you need to do it other people you know you need to get into a rhythm you need to start get into a rhythm you need to start get into a rhythm you need to start activating those circuits in order to activating those circuits in order to activating those circuits in order to feel like you can be in that forward feel like you can be in that forward feel like you can be in that forward Center of mass I almost always feel this Center of mass I almost always feel this Center of mass I almost always feel this about running for the first 10 minutes about running for the first 10 minutes about running for the first 10 minutes I'm like this sucks whatever is it's not
35:00I'm like this sucks whatever is it's not I'm like this sucks whatever is it's not that I'm not warmed up something's not that I'm not warmed up something's not that I'm not warmed up something's not warmed up in my mind and then it starts warmed up in my mind and then it starts warmed up in my mind and then it starts to feel better and better and better and to feel better and better and better and to feel better and better and better and then I feel like I could run all day so then I feel like I could run all day so then I feel like I could run all day so um you know I'm using loose analogies um you know I'm using loose analogies um you know I'm using loose analogies here but um also real life examples to here but um also real life examples to here but um also real life examples to explain that the circuits that are explain that the circuits that are explain that the circuits that are responsible for responsible for responsible for motivation for effort in the movement motivation for effort in the movement motivation for effort in the movement system and in the cognitive space are system and in the cognitive space are system and in the cognitive space are similar different circuits but they're similar different circuits but they're similar different circuits but they're also similar to the extent that also similar to the extent that also similar to the extent that sometimes they need warm up and that sometimes they need warm up and that sometimes they need warm up and that will likely be more and more the case if will likely be more and more the case if will likely be more and more the case if we are engaging in activities in our the we are engaging in activities in our the we are engaging in activities in our the rest of our life where we can get what rest of our life where we can get what rest of our life where we can get what we're looking for without any effort at we're looking for without any effort at we're looking for without any effort at all we are and I'm not blaming social all we are and I'm not blaming social all we are and I'm not blaming social media or YouTube Love YouTube We're on media or YouTube Love YouTube We're on media or YouTube Love YouTube We're on YouTube you're on YouTube but we live in YouTube you're on YouTube but we live in YouTube you're on YouTube but we live in a world now where our brain has learned a world now where our brain has learned a world now where our brain has learned we can get things in an instant it we can get things in an instant it we can get things in an instant it doesn't require effort and so there's doesn't require effort and so there's doesn't require effort and so there's been a learning of that as well there's been a learning of that as well there's been a learning of that as well there's this in like where's the reward where's this in like where's the reward where's this in like where's the reward where's the the reward where's the Milestone the the reward where's the Milestone the the reward where's the Milestone that I'm on the right path well it's not
36:00that I'm on the right path well it's not that I'm on the right path well it's not there as you crack open the book because there as you crack open the book because there as you crack open the book because your circuits have essentially been your circuits have essentially been your circuits have essentially been trained to have that just delivered to trained to have that just delivered to trained to have that just delivered to you in video form I mean reading words you in video form I mean reading words you in video form I mean reading words on a page I love reading but it's to on a page I love reading but it's to on a page I love reading but it's to your brain it's far more boring than your brain it's far more boring than your brain it's far more boring than watching a movie nothing you know a watching a movie nothing you know a watching a movie nothing you know a picture is worth a thousand words and a picture is worth a thousand words and a picture is worth a thousand words and a movie is worth a billion pictures right movie is worth a billion pictures right movie is worth a billion pictures right it's just the brain loves motion it it's just the brain loves motion it it's just the brain loves motion it loves visual motion it loves visual loves visual motion it loves visual loves visual motion it loves visual motion with color it loves faces it motion with color it loves faces it motion with color it loves faces it loves those Dynamics and so we should loves those Dynamics and so we should loves those Dynamics and so we should not be surprised at all that when we not be surprised at all that when we not be surprised at all that when we tell our kids or we ask ourselves to sit tell our kids or we ask ourselves to sit tell our kids or we ask ourselves to sit down and read something we go oh my down and read something we go oh my down and read something we go oh my goodness like what's going on with me goodness like what's going on with me goodness like what's going on with me give it a little bit of time 5 to 10 give it a little bit of time 5 to 10 give it a little bit of time 5 to 10 minutes and understand that it's you're minutes and understand that it's you're minutes and understand that it's you're asking something very different of your asking something very different of your asking something very different of your brain under those conditions now if you brain under those conditions now if you brain under those conditions now if you get a text message from somebody and get a text message from somebody and get a text message from somebody and you're anticipating that text message you're anticipating that text message you're anticipating that text message what's the diagnosis did you win this what's the diagnosis did you win this what's the diagnosis did you win this you know are you going to see them and you know are you going to see them and you know are you going to see them and you're excited well then you're going to you're excited well then you're going to you're excited well then you're going to be wrapped with attention but again text be wrapped with attention but again text be wrapped with attention but again text messages are this instant form of messages are this instant form of messages are this instant form of communication communication communication um that you know both Taps into no doubt
37:00um that you know both Taps into no doubt um that you know both Taps into no doubt the dopamine system the anticipation the dopamine system the anticipation the dopamine system the anticipation system but I think what I'm saying here system but I think what I'm saying here system but I think what I'm saying here is that a lot of the typical daily is that a lot of the typical daily is that a lot of the typical daily activities that we engage in and that we activities that we engage in and that we activities that we engage in and that we all love are actually training our all love are actually training our all love are actually training our circuits to be less effective at working circuits to be less effective at working circuits to be less effective at working through that initial friction less through that initial friction less through that initial friction less effort um I've heard you talk about effort um I've heard you talk about effort um I've heard you talk about attaching the reward to the effort attaching the reward to the effort attaching the reward to the effort itself and how that can help you and itself and how that can help you and itself and how that can help you and your your system sort of value more the your your system sort of value more the your your system sort of value more the effort right rather than the end reward effort right rather than the end reward effort right rather than the end reward yeah do you have some examples of like yeah do you have some examples of like yeah do you have some examples of like like how would you attach a reward to like how would you attach a reward to like how would you attach a reward to the effort itself okay so there's the the effort itself okay so there's the the effort itself okay so there's the psychology and then there's the the psychology and then there's the the psychology and then there's the the physiology um the idea of attaching physiology um the idea of attaching physiology um the idea of attaching reward to the effort process itself is reward to the effort process itself is reward to the effort process itself is kind of the Holy Grail of learning kind of the Holy Grail of learning kind of the Holy Grail of learning anything and being human in my opinion anything and being human in my opinion anything and being human in my opinion um and here we can look to the beautiful um and here we can look to the beautiful um and here we can look to the beautiful work by my colleague Carol DW on growth work by my colleague Carol DW on growth work by my colleague Carol DW on growth mindset you know this notion of mindset you know this notion of mindset you know this notion of attaching the word yet you know that attaching the word yet you know that attaching the word yet you know that somebody isn't good at something and somebody isn't good at something and somebody isn't good at something and they can tell themselves yet that they they can tell themselves yet that they they can tell themselves yet that they can be that there's the capacity for can be that there's the capacity for can be that there's the capacity for growth and so on there's also the
38:00growth and so on there's also the growth and so on there's also the beautiful work of another colleague of beautiful work of another colleague of beautiful work of another colleague of mine Dr Aaliyah Crum at Stanford and mine Dr Aaliyah Crum at Stanford and mine Dr Aaliyah Crum at Stanford and David jerger Who's down at University of David jerger Who's down at University of David jerger Who's down at University of Texas Austin which has combined a lot of Texas Austin which has combined a lot of Texas Austin which has combined a lot of the discoveries about growth mindset the discoveries about growth mindset the discoveries about growth mindset with the stress can be with the stress can be with the stress can be performance-enhancing mindset and to performance-enhancing mindset and to performance-enhancing mindset and to great um success in my opinion um in great um success in my opinion um in great um success in my opinion um in terms of cultivating better academic terms of cultivating better academic terms of cultivating better academic skills and so on so we'll get to that in skills and so on so we'll get to that in skills and so on so we'll get to that in a moment but the idea here is that the a moment but the idea here is that the a moment but the idea here is that the dopamine system even though it's you dopamine system even though it's you dopamine system even though it's you know it's down in the mid brain and it's know it's down in the mid brain and it's know it's down in the mid brain and it's involved with and it's also you know involved with and it's also you know involved with and it's also you know communicating with the striatum and it's communicating with the striatum and it's communicating with the striatum and it's communicating down to the spinal cord communicating down to the spinal cord communicating down to the spinal cord and it's involved in all this stuff and it's involved in all this stuff and it's involved in all this stuff that's evolutionarily pretty pretty old that's evolutionarily pretty pretty old that's evolutionarily pretty pretty old right reward exists in reward mechanisms right reward exists in reward mechanisms right reward exists in reward mechanisms and movement exists in other animals too and movement exists in other animals too and movement exists in other animals too but the amazing thing about these but the amazing thing about these but the amazing thing about these Pathways is that they are highly subject Pathways is that they are highly subject Pathways is that they are highly subject to context dependent learning so the to context dependent learning so the to context dependent learning so the prefrontal cortex the neural real estate prefrontal cortex the neural real estate prefrontal cortex the neural real estate behind our forehead it's a bunch of behind our forehead it's a bunch of behind our forehead it's a bunch of different areas of of the prefrontal different areas of of the prefrontal different areas of of the prefrontal cortex but it's a essentially a context cortex but it's a essentially a context cortex but it's a essentially a context learning machine it learns what's learning machine it learns what's learning machine it learns what's appropriate in one situation and not
39:00appropriate in one situation and not appropriate in one situation and not another and it learns rules it can teach another and it learns rules it can teach another and it learns rules it can teach and learn rules but it doesn't just and learn rules but it doesn't just and learn rules but it doesn't just teach and learn rules to you it the teach and learn rules to you it the teach and learn rules to you it the circuits involved in motivation and circuits involved in motivation and circuits involved in motivation and reward can learn those rules even so reward can learn those rules even so reward can learn those rules even so much just even so far as to say much just even so far as to say much just even so far as to say accurately that if you are in a process accurately that if you are in a process accurately that if you are in a process of trying to learn something and you of trying to learn something and you of trying to learn something and you can't do it you're like oh like I can't can't do it you're like oh like I can't can't do it you're like oh like I can't figure this out I can't figure this out figure this out I can't figure this out figure this out I can't figure this out but you have the knowledge the cognitive but you have the knowledge the cognitive but you have the knowledge the cognitive knowledge that that feeling of what I knowledge that that feeling of what I knowledge that that feeling of what I call lyic friction you know I made that call lyic friction you know I made that call lyic friction you know I made that term up but this feeling of friction term up but this feeling of friction term up but this feeling of friction like this is tough this is agitating I like this is tough this is agitating I like this is tough this is agitating I can't do it if you are aware of the can't do it if you are aware of the can't do it if you are aware of the reality which is that that reflects the reality which is that that reflects the reality which is that that reflects the release of neurochemicals involved in release of neurochemicals involved in release of neurochemicals involved in attention and alertness and it's change attention and alertness and it's change attention and alertness and it's change the millu of your brain to allow the millu of your brain to allow the millu of your brain to allow plasticity to occur then you can tell plasticity to occur then you can tell plasticity to occur then you can tell yourselves in those moments the yourselves in those moments the yourselves in those moments the challenge that I'm experiencing right challenge that I'm experiencing right challenge that I'm experiencing right now is the gate to neuroplasticity which now is the gate to neuroplasticity which now is the gate to neuroplasticity which it is it's a it's a way that my brain it is it's a it's a way that my brain it is it's a it's a way that my brain knows this is different than everyday knows this is different than everyday knows this is different than everyday life CU I can't do what I'm trying to do life CU I can't do what I'm trying to do life CU I can't do what I'm trying to do pay attention do something differently pay attention do something differently pay attention do something differently keep Drilling and that process if you
40:00keep Drilling and that process if you keep Drilling and that process if you tell yourself the simple you know selft tell yourself the simple you know selft tell yourself the simple you know selft talk of I'm on the right path the fact talk of I'm on the right path the fact talk of I'm on the right path the fact that it's difficult means I'm on the that it's difficult means I'm on the that it's difficult means I'm on the right path as opposed to the wrong path right path as opposed to the wrong path right path as opposed to the wrong path what that means is that the dopamine what that means is that the dopamine what that means is that the dopamine system can start to recognize those system can start to recognize those system can start to recognize those General themes of thinking General General themes of thinking General General themes of thinking General themes of internal arousal state in the themes of internal arousal state in the themes of internal arousal state in the body and brain so that in the future body and brain so that in the future body and brain so that in the future when you encounter those States you know when you encounter those States you know when you encounter those States you know this is good this is good for me in this is good this is good for me in this is good this is good for me in other words we can it's not just that other words we can it's not just that other words we can it's not just that the dopamine is released when we are in the dopamine is released when we are in the dopamine is released when we are in pursuit of heat when it's cold cool when pursuit of heat when it's cold cool when pursuit of heat when it's cold cool when we're too hot food sex Etc the dopamine we're too hot food sex Etc the dopamine we're too hot food sex Etc the dopamine system can also learn based on knowledge system can also learn based on knowledge system can also learn based on knowledge that we are told and that we believe and that we are told and that we believe and that we are told and that we believe and there's actually a beautiful paper in there's actually a beautiful paper in there's actually a beautiful paper in neuron published a few years ago that um neuron published a few years ago that um neuron published a few years ago that um actually attaches beliefs to the actually attaches beliefs to the actually attaches beliefs to the dopamine system it can get a little dopamine system it can get a little dopamine system it can get a little scary because what it essentially showed scary because what it essentially showed scary because what it essentially showed was that was that was that people who get confirmation of their people who get confirmation of their people who get confirmation of their pre-existing beliefs get dopamine
41:00pre-existing beliefs get dopamine pre-existing beliefs get dopamine release under those conditions this release under those conditions this release under those conditions this explains a lot of what we see out in the explains a lot of what we see out in the explains a lot of what we see out in the world both online and elsewhere but the world both online and elsewhere but the world both online and elsewhere but the the important Point here is that what we the important Point here is that what we the important Point here is that what we believe about how dopamine Works what we believe about how dopamine Works what we believe about how dopamine Works what we believe about believe about believe about effort those things can be merged in a effort those things can be merged in a effort those things can be merged in a way that indeed we can start to attach way that indeed we can start to attach way that indeed we can start to attach reward to the effort process itself as reward to the effort process itself as reward to the effort process itself as we are striving as we are trying to go we are striving as we are trying to go we are striving as we are trying to go from flat-footed to forward Center of from flat-footed to forward Center of from flat-footed to forward Center of mass if you will or from back on our mass if you will or from back on our mass if you will or from back on our heels to Flat footed to forward Center heels to Flat footed to forward Center heels to Flat footed to forward Center of mass as we're doing that if we tell of mass as we're doing that if we tell of mass as we're doing that if we tell ourselves okay this is supposed to be ourselves okay this is supposed to be ourselves okay this is supposed to be painful hopefully in non you know painful hopefully in non you know painful hopefully in non you know traumatic non uh physically or traumatic non uh physically or traumatic non uh physically or psychologically traumatic way but that psychologically traumatic way but that psychologically traumatic way but that I'm I'm doing this this is it this I'm I'm doing this this is it this I'm I'm doing this this is it this horrible day that was so difficult this horrible day that was so difficult this horrible day that was so difficult this is part of growth this is part of the is part of growth this is part of the is part of growth this is part of the I'm on the growth curve that knowledge I'm on the growth curve that knowledge I'm on the growth curve that knowledge can shape and will shape the neural can shape and will shape the neural can shape and will shape the neural circuitry associated with dopamine and circuitry associated with dopamine and circuitry associated with dopamine and reward so that in the future when you reward so that in the future when you reward so that in the future when you encounter it it's like yeah this is how encounter it it's like yeah this is how encounter it it's like yeah this is how this is how this works and you know this is how this works and you know this is how this works and you know people hear this and they go go wait how people hear this and they go go wait how people hear this and they go go wait how do I do that how many times do I have to do I do that how many times do I have to do I do that how many times do I have to tell myself I got it right you know
42:00tell myself I got it right you know tell myself I got it right you know there hasn't been a deep exploration of there hasn't been a deep exploration of there hasn't been a deep exploration of that but everything we know about the that but everything we know about the that but everything we know about the psychology of growth mindset and then I psychology of growth mindset and then I psychology of growth mindset and then I mentioned the stresses enhancing mindset mentioned the stresses enhancing mindset mentioned the stresses enhancing mindset it's worth just noting the stresses it's worth just noting the stresses it's worth just noting the stresses performance enhancing mindset is one in performance enhancing mindset is one in performance enhancing mindset is one in which it's a be beautiful experiments which it's a be beautiful experiments which it's a be beautiful experiments where people watch a movie about how where people watch a movie about how where people watch a movie about how stress diminishes performance causes stress diminishes performance causes stress diminishes performance causes challenges in immune system function etc challenges in immune system function etc challenges in immune system function etc etc it's all true a different group etc it's all true a different group etc it's all true a different group watches a video about how stress can watches a video about how stress can watches a video about how stress can enhance performance sharpens Focus enhance performance sharpens Focus enhance performance sharpens Focus sharpens memory for specific things Etc sharpens memory for specific things Etc sharpens memory for specific things Etc and it improves performance so what it and it improves performance so what it and it improves performance so what it basically boils down to is that what you basically boils down to is that what you basically boils down to is that what you believe about a certain state in your believe about a certain state in your believe about a certain state in your brain and body has very much to do with brain and body has very much to do with brain and body has very much to do with how your dopamine and other how your dopamine and other how your dopamine and other neurochemical systems react and that neurochemical systems react and that neurochemical systems react and that carries forward into other activities carries forward into other activities carries forward into other activities that's why I love so much about the that's why I love so much about the that's why I love so much about the dopamine system or these other systems dopamine system or these other systems dopamine system or these other systems is that they generalize dopamine is the is that they generalize dopamine is the is that they generalize dopamine is the currency for all of this there are other currency for all of this there are other currency for all of this there are other currencies in there too I want to be currencies in there too I want to be currencies in there too I want to be fair to the biology but dopamine is the
43:00fair to the biology but dopamine is the fair to the biology but dopamine is the currency of motivation reward and currency of motivation reward and currency of motivation reward and pursuit but mostly reward but mostly pursuit but mostly reward but mostly pursuit but mostly reward but mostly motivation and effort and then motivation and effort and then motivation and effort and then additionally reward under certain additionally reward under certain additionally reward under certain conditions so I guess if I if that was a conditions so I guess if I if that was a conditions so I guess if I if that was a you know to word you know to word you know to word d when things get hard tell d when things get hard tell d when things get hard tell yourself the fact that they're hard yourself the fact that they're hard yourself the fact that they're hard means you're on the right path you might means you're on the right path you might means you're on the right path you might not be on the exact right path but think not be on the exact right path but think not be on the exact right path but think of yourself as cutting a a wedge of yourself as cutting a a wedge of yourself as cutting a a wedge through a map to get to a certain through a map to get to a certain through a map to get to a certain destination sure as you gain more destination sure as you gain more destination sure as you gain more knowledge of right and wrong aspects of knowledge of right and wrong aspects of knowledge of right and wrong aspects of your Pursuit you can sharpen up or your Pursuit you can sharpen up or your Pursuit you can sharpen up or narrow up that wedge so that you nail narrow up that wedge so that you nail narrow up that wedge so that you nail the location like a Google Maps the location like a Google Maps the location like a Google Maps trajectory but understanding that as you trajectory but understanding that as you trajectory but understanding that as you are in Pursuit you are tapping into the are in Pursuit you are tapping into the are in Pursuit you are tapping into the dopamine system now if you hit a a node dopamine system now if you hit a a node dopamine system now if you hit a a node if you will in your Pursuit and it's if you will in your Pursuit and it's if you will in your Pursuit and it's like oh you got the wrong thing it was like oh you got the wrong thing it was like oh you got the wrong thing it was like you didn't get the you didn't meet like you didn't get the you didn't meet like you didn't get the you didn't meet the goal it didn't go way you wanted the goal it didn't go way you wanted the goal it didn't go way you wanted it's also useful to understand that that
44:00it's also useful to understand that that it's also useful to understand that that is valuable knowledge the lack of reward is valuable knowledge the lack of reward is valuable knowledge the lack of reward the disappointment you feel will also the disappointment you feel will also the disappointment you feel will also reinforce not doing many of the things reinforce not doing many of the things reinforce not doing many of the things that led up to that we just have to be that led up to that we just have to be that led up to that we just have to be careful that we don't generalize too careful that we don't generalize too careful that we don't generalize too much right there were exams that I much right there were exams that I much right there were exams that I studied for in University that I didn't studied for in University that I didn't studied for in University that I didn't do as well as I would have liked in fact do as well as I would have liked in fact do as well as I would have liked in fact one course in particular and I still one course in particular and I still one course in particular and I still remember the course I still remember remember the course I still remember remember the course I still remember exactly what went wrong but that's exactly what went wrong but that's exactly what went wrong but that's exactly the point we have a heightened exactly the point we have a heightened exactly the point we have a heightened memory for where effort led to the thing memory for where effort led to the thing memory for where effort led to the thing we didn't want and we can use that to we didn't want and we can use that to we didn't want and we can use that to make sure that we remember that make sure that we remember that make sure that we remember that information going forward we apply that information going forward we apply that information going forward we apply that information going forward in fact as you information going forward in fact as you information going forward in fact as you know in a qualifying exam they keep know in a qualifying exam they keep know in a qualifying exam they keep asking the graduate student questions asking the graduate student questions asking the graduate student questions until you say what until you say I don't until you say what until you say I don't until you say what until you say I don't know and at that point they've found know and at that point they've found know and at that point they've found your limit and the answer to that your limit and the answer to that your limit and the answer to that question inevitably people go look up question inevitably people go look up question inevitably people go look up and it's the one thing from your and it's the one thing from your and it's the one thing from your qualifying exam that you never forget so qualifying exam that you never forget so qualifying exam that you never forget so in any case that's um that's the best in any case that's um that's the best in any case that's um that's the best sort of topical description I can I can sort of topical description I can I can sort of topical description I can I can provide and some of it really sounds provide and some of it really sounds provide and some of it really sounds very much like the placebo effect too
45:00very much like the placebo effect too very much like the placebo effect too right I mean the placebo effect where right I mean the placebo effect where right I mean the placebo effect where you believe something is you know going you believe something is you know going you believe something is you know going to be positive it's going to happen and to be positive it's going to happen and to be positive it's going to happen and I believe you also release dopamine I believe you also release dopamine I believe you also release dopamine right it absolutely so I mean a placebo right it absolutely so I mean a placebo right it absolutely so I mean a placebo effect is is amazing I mean and and effect is is amazing I mean and and effect is is amazing I mean and and scares certain people but I don't think scares certain people but I don't think scares certain people but I don't think it should I think that we should look at it should I think that we should look at it should I think that we should look at the placebo effect as proof positive the placebo effect as proof positive the placebo effect as proof positive that the circuitries in the brain that that the circuitries in the brain that that the circuitries in the brain that are involved in primitive things um are involved in primitive things um are involved in primitive things um dopamine release temperature regulation dopamine release temperature regulation dopamine release temperature regulation hunger Etc are highly prone to hunger Etc are highly prone to hunger Etc are highly prone to contextual learning you know this drink contextual learning you know this drink contextual learning you know this drink is going to do blank and it does this is going to do blank and it does this is going to do blank and it does this give someone else the same drink again give someone else the same drink again give someone else the same drink again Aaliyah crumbs work give the milkshake Aaliyah crumbs work give the milkshake Aaliyah crumbs work give the milkshake study right give people milkshake tell study right give people milkshake tell study right give people milkshake tell them it's high high calorie very nut or them it's high high calorie very nut or them it's high high calorie very nut or tell them it's very nutrient-dense you tell them it's very nutrient-dense you tell them it's very nutrient-dense you get more satiety than if you tell them get more satiety than if you tell them get more satiety than if you tell them it's nutrient sparse right Ian it's just it's nutrient sparse right Ian it's just it's nutrient sparse right Ian it's just and it's the same calorie drink and but and it's the same calorie drink and but and it's the same calorie drink and but you can look at the level of grent you can look at the level of grent you can look at the level of grent secretion and see that pure Placebo SL secretion and see that pure Placebo SL secretion and see that pure Placebo SL belief effect and I think that that
46:00belief effect and I think that that belief effect and I think that that makes sense if you are in the middle makes sense if you are in the middle makes sense if you are in the middle like if you're wanting to reward effort like if you're wanting to reward effort like if you're wanting to reward effort then while you're in that when you're then while you're in that when you're then while you're in that when you're doing it when you're in the the effort doing it when you're in the the effort doing it when you're in the the effort part where you're like in motion right part where you're like in motion right part where you're like in motion right then thinking about like this is working then thinking about like this is working then thinking about like this is working like this is like you can then there's like this is like you can then there's like this is like you can then there's the dopamine right attached to the the dopamine right attached to the the dopamine right attached to the effort am I thinking about it right effort am I thinking about it right effort am I thinking about it right absolutely right it's you described it absolutely right it's you described it absolutely right it's you described it far better and more succinctly than than far better and more succinctly than than far better and more succinctly than than I ever could it's important to pay I ever could it's important to pay I ever could it's important to pay attention to what effort feels like in attention to what effort feels like in attention to what effort feels like in the brain and body and to remind the brain and body and to remind the brain and body and to remind ourselves in those moments I'm on the ourselves in those moments I'm on the ourselves in those moments I'm on the right path I might not be on the exact right path I might not be on the exact right path I might not be on the exact right path but I'm headed in the right right path but I'm headed in the right right path but I'm headed in the right direction and sure enough when you hit a direction and sure enough when you hit a direction and sure enough when you hit a milestone whatever that Milestone is you milestone whatever that Milestone is you milestone whatever that Milestone is you should pay attention to that Milestone should pay attention to that Milestone should pay attention to that Milestone the reward the grade Etc I'm a big the reward the grade Etc I'm a big the reward the grade Etc I'm a big believer of also sometimes not paying believer of also sometimes not paying believer of also sometimes not paying too much attention to that I I'll never too much attention to that I I'll never too much attention to that I I'll never forget in graduate school we got our forget in graduate school we got our forget in graduate school we got our first paper published and I thought we first paper published and I thought we first paper published and I thought we would go celebrate and I asked my my Pi would go celebrate and I asked my my Pi would go celebrate and I asked my my Pi my uh lab head I said you know are we
47:00my uh lab head I said you know are we my uh lab head I said you know are we GNA celebrate and she said I don't know GNA celebrate and she said I don't know GNA celebrate and she said I don't know wasn't the celebration doing the wasn't the celebration doing the wasn't the celebration doing the experiments I was like oh those were a experiments I was like oh those were a experiments I was like oh those were a lot of fun yeah and she said well I lot of fun yeah and she said well I lot of fun yeah and she said well I guess we could get a pizza or something guess we could get a pizza or something guess we could get a pizza or something but how about just go do more but how about just go do more but how about just go do more experiments um and so that's what I did experiments um and so that's what I did experiments um and so that's what I did and at the time I remember thinking oh and at the time I remember thinking oh and at the time I remember thinking oh that's no fun but she had a long commute that's no fun but she had a long commute that's no fun but she had a long commute home and you know maybe maybe who knows home and you know maybe maybe who knows home and you know maybe maybe who knows she didn't have the time looking back she didn't have the time looking back she didn't have the time looking back it's like what a great gift because it it's like what a great gift because it it's like what a great gift because it was like no you do the it was the doing was like no you do the it was the doing was like no you do the it was the doing of the experiments that was the reward of the experiments that was the reward of the experiments that was the reward the paper yeah that's super cool it's the paper yeah that's super cool it's the paper yeah that's super cool it's fun you know first paper is always a fun you know first paper is always a fun you know first paper is always a thrill but no the real Thrill is in thrill but no the real Thrill is in thrill but no the real Thrill is in doing the experiments doing science and doing the experiments doing science and doing the experiments doing science and so let's not introduce anything to this so let's not introduce anything to this so let's not introduce anything to this picture that doesn't map on to that and picture that doesn't map on to that and picture that doesn't map on to that and um I don't know to what degree it played um I don't know to what degree it played um I don't know to what degree it played a role in my pursuit of goals but um I a role in my pursuit of goals but um I a role in my pursuit of goals but um I really enjoy effort in fact I love really enjoy effort in fact I love really enjoy effort in fact I love building stuff as much or more than I building stuff as much or more than I building stuff as much or more than I indulging in the the final prodct you do indulging in the the final prodct you do indulging in the the final prodct you do an excellent job um I guess as a parent an excellent job um I guess as a parent an excellent job um I guess as a parent you know like it if you're trying to you know like it if you're trying to you know like it if you're trying to attach a reward to effort to kind of attach a reward to effort to kind of attach a reward to effort to kind of help facilitate tenacity willpower um
48:00help facilitate tenacity willpower um help facilitate tenacity willpower um like if a child like you're not going to like if a child like you're not going to like if a child like you're not going to be able to tell a child to do what we be able to tell a child to do what we be able to tell a child to do what we were just talking about but like if a were just talking about but like if a were just talking about but like if a child was like learning a new language child was like learning a new language child was like learning a new language then you would reward the studying time then you would reward the studying time then you would reward the studying time right like so it's like they're studying right like so it's like they're studying right like so it's like they're studying okay every study session they get a okay every study session they get a okay every study session they get a quarter or whatever like so then they're quarter or whatever like so then they're quarter or whatever like so then they're like rewarded for studying not for like like rewarded for studying not for like like rewarded for studying not for like the fact that they can say the words the fact that they can say the words the fact that they can say the words properly or you know get get the properly or you know get get the properly or you know get get the language correct or whatever so exactly language correct or whatever so exactly language correct or whatever so exactly reward verbs reward verbs reward verbs and verb States as opposed to um and verb States as opposed to um and verb States as opposed to um providing adjectives so when we tell providing adjectives so when we tell providing adjectives so when we tell kids you're so smart you're so smart we kids you're so smart you're so smart we kids you're so smart you're so smart we think we're doing a great job of think we're doing a great job of think we're doing a great job of reinforcing their psychology but reinforcing their psychology but reinforcing their psychology but actually what a lot of data not all data actually what a lot of data not all data actually what a lot of data not all data to be fair but what a lot of data show to be fair but what a lot of data show to be fair but what a lot of data show is that leads to a state where if that is that leads to a state where if that is that leads to a state where if that kid or adult gets something wrong then kid or adult gets something wrong then kid or adult gets something wrong then what's the opposite of smart they think what's the opposite of smart they think what's the opposite of smart they think they're stupid whereas if you reward you they're stupid whereas if you reward you they're stupid whereas if you reward you it's incredible and I'm so impressed by it's incredible and I'm so impressed by it's incredible and I'm so impressed by the effort you put in how hard you
49:00the effort you put in how hard you the effort you put in how hard you worked the fact that you you really worked the fact that you you really worked the fact that you you really double checked everything before you double checked everything before you double checked everything before you know turning in your paper you know the know turning in your paper you know the know turning in your paper you know the fact that you that you were really um fact that you that you were really um fact that you that you were really um you know I noticed how um carefully you you know I noticed how um carefully you you know I noticed how um carefully you blanked right you you went through each blanked right you you went through each blanked right you you went through each thing so and you're also reinforcing thing so and you're also reinforcing thing so and you're also reinforcing specific things that they can that they specific things that they can that they specific things that they can that they can repeat just telling a kid that can repeat just telling a kid that can repeat just telling a kid that they're smart and they go through life they're smart and they go through life they're smart and they go through life thinking they're smart well the first thinking they're smart well the first thinking they're smart well the first time and listen it's going to happen time and listen it's going to happen time and listen it's going to happen sooner or later the first time they get sooner or later the first time they get sooner or later the first time they get evidence to the contrary they just take evidence to the contrary they just take evidence to the contrary they just take the opposite of that so much so that I the opposite of that so much so that I the opposite of that so much so that I remember also my gra uh graduate adviser remember also my gra uh graduate adviser remember also my gra uh graduate adviser saying you know with students you want saying you know with students you want saying you know with students you want to say um uh what was it instead of uh to say um uh what was it instead of uh to say um uh what was it instead of uh be careful um be mindful or something be careful um be mindful or something be careful um be mindful or something like there was there was this idea that like there was there was this idea that like there was there was this idea that you know trying to get students to pay you know trying to get students to pay you know trying to get students to pay attention to things in a certain way as attention to things in a certain way as attention to things in a certain way as opposed to rewarding um people based on opposed to rewarding um people based on opposed to rewarding um people based on bins like you know smart or or less bins like you know smart or or less bins like you know smart or or less smart or something like that so with smart or something like that so with smart or something like that so with kids I think reward in and reinforcing kids I think reward in and reinforcing kids I think reward in and reinforcing verb states that led to the the sort of
50:00verb states that led to the the sort of verb states that led to the the sort of categorization is what's going to be categorization is what's going to be categorization is what's going to be most effective at least that's what the most effective at least that's what the most effective at least that's what the data show yeah um going back to data show yeah um going back to data show yeah um going back to procrastination I've I've heard you talk procrastination I've I've heard you talk procrastination I've I've heard you talk about some interesting visualization you about some interesting visualization you about some interesting visualization you know techniques where you know if a know techniques where you know if a know techniques where you know if a person's in a state of mind where person's in a state of mind where person's in a state of mind where they're they're yes they want to do this they're they're yes they want to do this they're they're yes they want to do this this goal this you know whatever the this goal this you know whatever the this goal this you know whatever the fill-in theblank project is or goal then fill-in theblank project is or goal then fill-in theblank project is or goal then you know they can use a visualization you know they can use a visualization you know they can use a visualization technique but if there were not they technique but if there were not they technique but if there were not they could also do something but they could could also do something but they could could also do something but they could like use the pain and discomfort to like use the pain and discomfort to like use the pain and discomfort to helps get into that like do like helps get into that like do like helps get into that like do like actually do it um Can can you talk a actually do it um Can can you talk a actually do it um Can can you talk a little bit about that yeah Tim Ferris little bit about that yeah Tim Ferris little bit about that yeah Tim Ferris was right with fear setting um so was right with fear setting um so was right with fear setting um so there's a really fantastic scientist um there's a really fantastic scientist um there's a really fantastic scientist um professor at NYU Emily bedus who talked professor at NYU Emily bedus who talked professor at NYU Emily bedus who talked about this um and continues to to about this um and continues to to about this um and continues to to research it um which is that research it um which is that research it um which is that oftentimes fearing the worst or feeling
51:00oftentimes fearing the worst or feeling oftentimes fearing the worst or feeling negative outcomes if we don't do negative outcomes if we don't do negative outcomes if we don't do something can be very beneficial as a something can be very beneficial as a something can be very beneficial as a motivator um so that's not to say you motivator um so that's not to say you motivator um so that's not to say you know fearing the worst case outcome it's know fearing the worst case outcome it's know fearing the worst case outcome it's placing some real time on fearing the placing some real time on fearing the placing some real time on fearing the negative thing that happens if we don't negative thing that happens if we don't negative thing that happens if we don't do something okay so that's a kind of a do something okay so that's a kind of a do something okay so that's a kind of a unique to that case as I understand it unique to that case as I understand it unique to that case as I understand it visualization of positive outcomes is visualization of positive outcomes is visualization of positive outcomes is great as a motivator but there are data great as a motivator but there are data great as a motivator but there are data that suggest that it might not sustain that suggest that it might not sustain that suggest that it might not sustain motivation over time I think it's motivation over time I think it's motivation over time I think it's probably fair to say that having both in probably fair to say that having both in probably fair to say that having both in your toolkit is great you know your toolkit is great you know your toolkit is great you know visualizing success um can be useful in visualizing success um can be useful in visualizing success um can be useful in some contexts visualizing the negative some contexts visualizing the negative some contexts visualizing the negative effects of not staying in pursuit of a effects of not staying in pursuit of a effects of not staying in pursuit of a goal also can be uh very motivating goal also can be uh very motivating goal also can be uh very motivating that's that's essentially what the data that's that's essentially what the data that's that's essentially what the data show now when it comes to of the show now when it comes to of the show now when it comes to of the underlying circuitry and what's going on underlying circuitry and what's going on underlying circuitry and what's going on in the brain that's a little bit harder in the brain that's a little bit harder in the brain that's a little bit harder to know to know to know um um um but what we do know is that the pain
52:00but what we do know is that the pain but what we do know is that the pain system and so-called negative system and so-called negative system and so-called negative reinforcement and Punishment the reinforcement and Punishment the reinforcement and Punishment the psychologists really parse these psychologists really parse these psychologists really parse these carefully so I want to acknowledge that carefully so I want to acknowledge that carefully so I want to acknowledge that I'm not using the exact operational I'm not using the exact operational I'm not using the exact operational definitions here that the dopamine definitions here that the dopamine definitions here that the dopamine system as I mentioned earlier is also system as I mentioned earlier is also system as I mentioned earlier is also very tightly woven to avoiding very tightly woven to avoiding very tightly woven to avoiding punishment to escaping punishment to punishment to escaping punishment to punishment to escaping punishment to being under conditions of discomfort and being under conditions of discomfort and being under conditions of discomfort and then no longer being under conditions of then no longer being under conditions of then no longer being under conditions of discomfort Fort so we could hypothesize discomfort Fort so we could hypothesize discomfort Fort so we could hypothesize or we don't know but we could or we don't know but we could or we don't know but we could hypothesize that for instance if you hypothesize that for instance if you hypothesize that for instance if you imagine goodness if I don't do this a imagine goodness if I don't do this a imagine goodness if I don't do this a bunch of negative things are going to bunch of negative things are going to bunch of negative things are going to happen and that itself could trigger a happen and that itself could trigger a happen and that itself could trigger a certain form of internal arousal that certain form of internal arousal that certain form of internal arousal that would put you into motion for that and would put you into motion for that and would put you into motion for that and that whole process would be rewarding so that whole process would be rewarding so that whole process would be rewarding so that makes logical sense at least you that makes logical sense at least you that makes logical sense at least you know in the in it's kind of top Contour know in the in it's kind of top Contour know in the in it's kind of top Contour makes logical sense the other thing is makes logical sense the other thing is makes logical sense the other thing is that if we try and think about way that that if we try and think about way that that if we try and think about way that we can avoid we can avoid we can avoid procrastination we can go back to the
53:00procrastination we can go back to the procrastination we can go back to the dopamine wave poool Baseline Peaks dopamine wave poool Baseline Peaks dopamine wave poool Baseline Peaks troughs and return to Baseline kind of troughs and return to Baseline kind of troughs and return to Baseline kind of stuff that we were talking about earlier stuff that we were talking about earlier stuff that we were talking about earlier and there's some interesting ideas out and there's some interesting ideas out and there's some interesting ideas out there and data although right now it's there and data although right now it's there and data although right now it's still being sculpted out in in humans still being sculpted out in in humans still being sculpted out in in humans meaning this experiments are still meaning this experiments are still meaning this experiments are still underway it's a little bit tougher to do underway it's a little bit tougher to do underway it's a little bit tougher to do in a in a scanner um to get at exact in a in a scanner um to get at exact in a in a scanner um to get at exact mechanisms but I think there's enough mechanisms but I think there's enough mechanisms but I think there's enough logical basis and mechanism to propose logical basis and mechanism to propose logical basis and mechanism to propose the following which is that if there's the following which is that if there's the following which is that if there's something you something you something you need to do that you know you need to do need to do that you know you need to do need to do that you know you need to do but that you're finding yourself very but that you're finding yourself very but that you're finding yourself very unmotivated to do it can be useful to do unmotivated to do it can be useful to do unmotivated to do it can be useful to do something even more uncomfortable than something even more uncomfortable than something even more uncomfortable than waiting and procrastinating I didn't say waiting and procrastinating I didn't say waiting and procrastinating I didn't say even more uncomfortable than the thing even more uncomfortable than the thing even more uncomfortable than the thing said even more uncomfortable than the said even more uncomfortable than the said even more uncomfortable than the thing that you happen to be doing at the thing that you happen to be doing at the thing that you happen to be doing at the moment which is just waiting and moment which is just waiting and moment which is just waiting and procrastinating you know so what would procrastinating you know so what would procrastinating you know so what would that be well we've all seen the opposite that be well we've all seen the opposite that be well we've all seen the opposite where we have a deadline and suddenly we where we have a deadline and suddenly we where we have a deadline and suddenly we find ourselves cleaning our home we find find ourselves cleaning our home we find find ourselves cleaning our home we find ourselves doing these things that are ourselves doing these things that are ourselves doing these things that are kind of low-level effort that for
54:00kind of low-level effort that for kind of low-level effort that for whatever reason if you think about it's whatever reason if you think about it's whatever reason if you think about it's kind of wild we weren't motivated enough kind of wild we weren't motivated enough kind of wild we weren't motivated enough to do a day before an hour before but to do a day before an hour before but to do a day before an hour before but suddenly we're motivated it's almost as suddenly we're motivated it's almost as suddenly we're motivated it's almost as if the motivation circuits are sort of if the motivation circuits are sort of if the motivation circuits are sort of getting ramped up trying to figure out getting ramped up trying to figure out getting ramped up trying to figure out what's you know what to direct it toward what's you know what to direct it toward what's you know what to direct it toward but clearly that's easier than focusing but clearly that's easier than focusing but clearly that's easier than focusing and directing one's effort toward the and directing one's effort toward the and directing one's effort toward the deadline the cognitive or physical deadline the cognitive or physical deadline the cognitive or physical effort of something else so there's this effort of something else so there's this effort of something else so there's this idea that many people have put to good idea that many people have put to good idea that many people have put to good use what go do something that's really use what go do something that's really use what go do something that's really uncomfortable again don't make it uncomfortable again don't make it uncomfortable again don't make it psychologically or physically traumatic psychologically or physically traumatic psychologically or physically traumatic but if you really don't want to exercise but if you really don't want to exercise but if you really don't want to exercise in that moment that'd be a great moment in that moment that'd be a great moment in that moment that'd be a great moment to exercise to engage those circuits to exercise to engage those circuits to exercise to engage those circuits remember it's a generic circuit it remember it's a generic circuit it remember it's a generic circuit it doesn't there isn't a circuit for doesn't there isn't a circuit for doesn't there isn't a circuit for motivation for one thing versus a motivation for one thing versus a motivation for one thing versus a circuit for motivation for another it's circuit for motivation for another it's circuit for motivation for another it's all just the general same circuitry is all just the general same circuitry is all just the general same circuitry is applied to different things so I happen applied to different things so I happen applied to different things so I happen to hate the cold I don't like doing cold to hate the cold I don't like doing cold to hate the cold I don't like doing cold I love the sauna hate the cold so for me I love the sauna hate the cold so for me I love the sauna hate the cold so for me getting in the cold plunge anytime ever getting in the cold plunge anytime ever getting in the cold plunge anytime ever unless I'm getting out of a very hot and unless I'm getting out of a very hot and unless I'm getting out of a very hot and I want cold is like the least exciting
55:00I want cold is like the least exciting I want cold is like the least exciting thing to me and the thing I'd like to thing to me and the thing I'd like to thing to me and the thing I'd like to avoid most so if I'm finding myself in a avoid most so if I'm finding myself in a avoid most so if I'm finding myself in a state of state of state of procrastination so some writing some procrastination so some writing some procrastination so some writing some whatever posting researching Etc I will whatever posting researching Etc I will whatever posting researching Etc I will often do the cold plunge as a motivator often do the cold plunge as a motivator often do the cold plunge as a motivator now we need to be fair to the biology now we need to be fair to the biology now we need to be fair to the biology and acknowledge that when we get into and acknowledge that when we get into and acknowledge that when we get into cold uncomfortably cold water the cold uncomfortably cold water the cold uncomfortably cold water the catacol amines are released dopamine catacol amines are released dopamine catacol amines are released dopamine epinephrine nor epinephrine we know that epinephrine nor epinephrine we know that epinephrine nor epinephrine we know that there's this beautiful study in European there's this beautiful study in European there's this beautiful study in European Journal physiology you know far more Journal physiology you know far more Journal physiology you know far more about this this work than I do but I've about this this work than I do but I've about this this work than I do but I've spent some time with that paper and spent some time with that paper and spent some time with that paper and there's a pretty remarkable and there's a pretty remarkable and there's a pretty remarkable and significant long lasting increase in the significant long lasting increase in the significant long lasting increase in the three catac colomines dopamine three catac colomines dopamine three catac colomines dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine so we epinephrine and norepinephrine so we epinephrine and norepinephrine so we can't know that it was the discomfort of can't know that it was the discomfort of can't know that it was the discomfort of being in the Cal plunge itself that led being in the Cal plunge itself that led being in the Cal plunge itself that led to more motivation it could be the to more motivation it could be the to more motivation it could be the discomfort led to the release of these discomfort led to the release of these discomfort led to the release of these catacol amines which led to a different catacol amines which led to a different catacol amines which led to a different brain state which allowed for more brain state which allowed for more brain state which allowed for more pursuit of whatever this other task that pursuit of whatever this other task that pursuit of whatever this other task that one was procrastinating on but I think one was procrastinating on but I think one was procrastinating on but I think it's reasonable to assume that all that it's reasonable to assume that all that it's reasonable to assume that all that stuff together had a significant effect
56:00stuff together had a significant effect stuff together had a significant effect okay not we're not talking statistically okay not we're not talking statistically okay not we're not talking statistically significant the study hasn't been done significant the study hasn't been done significant the study hasn't been done yet about evaluating procrastination yet about evaluating procrastination yet about evaluating procrastination versus coal plunge versus no coal plunge versus coal plunge versus no coal plunge versus coal plunge versus no coal plunge that'd be an interesting study that'd be an interesting study that'd be an interesting study but the point is the same three catacol but the point is the same three catacol but the point is the same three catacol means involved means involved means involved the discomfort of one thing leading to the discomfort of one thing leading to the discomfort of one thing leading to the post discomfort state of less the post discomfort state of less the post discomfort state of less discomfort but elevated cataca means discomfort but elevated cataca means discomfort but elevated cataca means bringing one into a state more bringing one into a state more bringing one into a state more motivation it to me it makes perfect motivation it to me it makes perfect motivation it to me it makes perfect sense like it all holds up logically and sense like it all holds up logically and sense like it all holds up logically and why Cold well cold is always provided why Cold well cold is always provided why Cold well cold is always provided it's uncomfortable but safe un it's uncomfortable but safe un it's uncomfortable but safe un uncomfortable but safe cold water uncomfortable but safe cold water uncomfortable but safe cold water exposure um always deploys the these exposure um always deploys the these exposure um always deploys the these catacol Mees is it's sort of a core part catacol Mees is it's sort of a core part catacol Mees is it's sort of a core part of our physiology there are probably of our physiology there are probably of our physiology there are probably other ways to do it exercise Etc other ways to do it exercise Etc other ways to do it exercise Etc exercise hard I mean like going on a exercise hard I mean like going on a exercise hard I mean like going on a Zone 2 run is not like that Zone 2 run is not like that Zone 2 run is not like that uncomfortable I think like Z is a but uncomfortable I think like Z is a but uncomfortable I think like Z is a but going hard going doing a hard hit is
57:00going hard going doing a hard hit is going hard going doing a hard hit is like like want to do it yeah yeah the like like want to do it yeah yeah the like like want to do it yeah yeah the assault I do a Friday workout for me it assault I do a Friday workout for me it assault I do a Friday workout for me it falls on Friday where it's it's um it falls on Friday where it's it's um it falls on Friday where it's it's um it sounds so easy but it always sucks to sounds so easy but it always sucks to sounds so easy but it always sucks to start it 10 seconds hard pedaling on the start it 10 seconds hard pedaling on the start it 10 seconds hard pedaling on the assault bike 20 seconds rest 10 seconds assault bike 20 seconds rest 10 seconds assault bike 20 seconds rest 10 seconds on 20 seconds off and just do that eight on 20 seconds off and just do that eight on 20 seconds off and just do that eight times just get my heart rate just way times just get my heart rate just way times just get my heart rate just way way up once a week um I never want to do way up once a week um I never want to do way up once a week um I never want to do it I never want to do it and then it I never want to do it and then it I never want to do it and then afterwards you always feel terrific for afterwards you always feel terrific for afterwards you always feel terrific for many many hour hour it's wild it has to many many hour hour it's wild it has to many many hour hour it's wild it has to be the catacol means I I definitely want be the catacol means I I definitely want be the catacol means I I definitely want to go into a little bit more on exercise to go into a little bit more on exercise to go into a little bit more on exercise and cold exposure and and dopamine and cold exposure and and dopamine and cold exposure and and dopamine um um so kind of I I guess if I'm so kind of I I guess if I'm so kind of I I guess if I'm understanding this correctly really like understanding this correctly really like understanding this correctly really like there's something about doing an there's something about doing an there's something about doing an embracing something that's more embracing something that's more embracing something that's more uncomfortable to you than just I guess uncomfortable to you than just I guess uncomfortable to you than just I guess sitting and waiting and and then you do sitting and waiting and and then you do sitting and waiting and and then you do it and let's okay let's let's forget the it and let's okay let's let's forget the it and let's okay let's let's forget the fact that cold plunge also releases fact that cold plunge also releases fact that cold plunge also releases dopamine but let's say you do it and dopamine but let's say you do it and dopamine but let's say you do it and then you go back to your time ask and then you go back to your time ask and then you go back to your time ask and it's like okay you did this really hard it's like okay you did this really hard it's like okay you did this really hard thing is there like a contrast now where thing is there like a contrast now where thing is there like a contrast now where it's like like I I think it's actually
58:00it's like like I I think it's actually it's like like I I think it's actually that um that and I think it's also just that um that and I think it's also just that um that and I think it's also just that the REM the ending of the difficult that the REM the ending of the difficult that the REM the ending of the difficult thing creates a an an increase we know thing creates a an an increase we know thing creates a an an increase we know this the removal of pain creates an this the removal of pain creates an this the removal of pain creates an increase in the catac colam meines that increase in the catac colam meines that increase in the catac colam meines that um it's like the we you know one I'm um it's like the we you know one I'm um it's like the we you know one I'm interrupting myself but from an interrupting myself but from an interrupting myself but from an evolutionary standpoint if we go back to evolutionary standpoint if we go back to evolutionary standpoint if we go back to like what this circuitry really evolved like what this circuitry really evolved like what this circuitry really evolved for it's like you just survived the for it's like you just survived the for it's like you just survived the effort you just you you just you just effort you just you you just you just effort you just you you just you just survived something which is a tremendous survived something which is a tremendous survived something which is a tremendous relief which is a it's a lift and but relief which is a it's a lift and but relief which is a it's a lift and but when I say it's a lift as a biologist I when I say it's a lift as a biologist I when I say it's a lift as a biologist I have to acknowledge it's it's a have to acknowledge it's it's a have to acknowledge it's it's a neurochemical lift dopamine epinephrine neurochemical lift dopamine epinephrine neurochemical lift dopamine epinephrine norepinephrine no doubt involved now if norepinephrine no doubt involved now if norepinephrine no doubt involved now if you go too hard too long you know you you go too hard too long you know you you go too hard too long you know you exercise too hard too long well then you exercise too hard too long well then you exercise too hard too long well then you get the the post exercise dip in energy get the the post exercise dip in energy get the the post exercise dip in energy and you might feel amotivated but what and you might feel amotivated but what and you might feel amotivated but what we're really talking about here is we're really talking about here is we're really talking about here is generating a wave front in that dopamine generating a wave front in that dopamine generating a wave front in that dopamine pool that then you can devote to other pool that then you can devote to other pool that then you can devote to other things so it's interesting talking about things so it's interesting talking about things so it's interesting talking about the thing that you don't like so you the thing that you don't like so you the thing that you don't like so you talk about cold exposure or going really talk about cold exposure or going really talk about cold exposure or going really hard in the exercise um how does
59:00hard in the exercise um how does hard in the exercise um how does exercise generally affect the dopamine exercise generally affect the dopamine exercise generally affect the dopamine system and does it depend on how much system and does it depend on how much system and does it depend on how much you enjoy doing it like like the nice you enjoy doing it like like the nice you enjoy doing it like like the nice run on the beach great question there is run on the beach great question there is run on the beach great question there is unfortunately not as much data about unfortunately not as much data about unfortunately not as much data about this um about the influence of exercise this um about the influence of exercise this um about the influence of exercise on dopamine there's some um but because on dopamine there's some um but because on dopamine there's some um but because it requires ideally brain Imaging and it requires ideally brain Imaging and it requires ideally brain Imaging and exercise involves movement it's been exercise involves movement it's been exercise involves movement it's been harder to do those sorts of experiments harder to do those sorts of experiments harder to do those sorts of experiments because people are in the mag maget because people are in the mag maget because people are in the mag maget often with a bite bar and like it head often with a bite bar and like it head often with a bite bar and like it head has to stay stable but in the case of has to stay stable but in the case of has to stay stable but in the case of cold water exposure and looking at the cold water exposure and looking at the cold water exposure and looking at the catacol meines it was by blood draw and catacol meines it was by blood draw and catacol meines it was by blood draw and and I want to be fair the levels of and I want to be fair the levels of and I want to be fair the levels of dopamine and other chemical increases by dopamine and other chemical increases by dopamine and other chemical increases by blood draw in the body don't always blood draw in the body don't always blood draw in the body don't always correlate directly in fact they never correlate directly in fact they never correlate directly in fact they never correlate directly with brain level correlate directly with brain level correlate directly with brain level changes in these chemicals but they're changes in these chemicals but they're changes in these chemicals but they're they're Loosely correlated you know as they're Loosely correlated you know as they're Loosely correlated you know as one goes up the other goes up as one one goes up the other goes up as one one goes up the other goes up as one goes down the other goes down but goes down the other goes down but goes down the other goes down but unfortunately we don't have great you unfortunately we don't have great you unfortunately we don't have great you know real-time Imaging of dopamine know real-time Imaging of dopamine know real-time Imaging of dopamine release or dopamine levels you know with
1:00release or dopamine levels you know with release or dopamine levels you know with like a skull cap that you could you know like a skull cap that you could you know like a skull cap that you could you know run without a bunch of equipment next to run without a bunch of equipment next to run without a bunch of equipment next to you so there aren't as many studies you so there aren't as many studies you so there aren't as many studies about this but there are some using about this but there are some using about this but there are some using blood draws because people can run on a blood draws because people can run on a blood draws because people can run on a treadmill take you know take blood and treadmill take you know take blood and treadmill take you know take blood and look and certainly people can be scanned look and certainly people can be scanned look and certainly people can be scanned in in the scanner as well we know that in in the scanner as well we know that in in the scanner as well we know that intense exercise deploys the catacol intense exercise deploys the catacol intense exercise deploys the catacol amines we know that we know cold water amines we know that we know cold water amines we know that we know cold water does it as well and a number of other does it as well and a number of other does it as well and a number of other things will as well people playing a a things will as well people playing a a things will as well people playing a a monetary reward game is the typical way monetary reward game is the typical way monetary reward game is the typical way that has been done in in the lab while that has been done in in the lab while that has been done in in the lab while people are in a scanner um there's also people are in a scanner um there's also people are in a scanner um there's also some interesting data I just want to some interesting data I just want to some interesting data I just want to mention in two sentences where the way mention in two sentences where the way mention in two sentences where the way that the dopamine system is kind of um that the dopamine system is kind of um that the dopamine system is kind of um checking off uh Milestones I talked checking off uh Milestones I talked checking off uh Milestones I talked before about Pursuit Milestone Pursuit before about Pursuit Milestone Pursuit before about Pursuit Milestone Pursuit Milestone the human brain has a capacity Milestone the human brain has a capacity Milestone the human brain has a capacity to like create long Milestones like a to like create long Milestones like a to like create long Milestones like a four-year degree or a marriage or you four-year degree or a marriage or you four-year degree or a marriage or you know raising a kid and also momentto know raising a kid and also momentto know raising a kid and also momentto moment Milestones there was an moment Milestones there was an moment Milestones there was an interesting experiment also published I interesting experiment also published I interesting experiment also published I believe in neuron I have to go back and believe in neuron I have to go back and believe in neuron I have to go back and check but certainly cell Press Journal check but certainly cell Press Journal check but certainly cell Press Journal by my recollection that had people by my recollection that had people by my recollection that had people watching a sports game and it was it was
1:01watching a sports game and it was it was watching a sports game and it was it was a basketball game and every time their a basketball game and every time their a basketball game and every time their favorite the subject's favorite team got favorite the subject's favorite team got favorite the subject's favorite team got the ball and there was an opportunity the ball and there was an opportunity the ball and there was an opportunity for another uh basket another score to for another uh basket another score to for another uh basket another score to take place the dopamine circuitry sort take place the dopamine circuitry sort take place the dopamine circuitry sort of reset itself if you will toward of reset itself if you will toward of reset itself if you will toward anticipation of that particular drive anticipation of that particular drive anticipation of that particular drive down down down Court um now that's a perfect experiment Court um now that's a perfect experiment Court um now that's a perfect experiment in many ways because basketball has a in many ways because basketball has a in many ways because basketball has a very it's a very constrained environment very it's a very constrained environment very it's a very constrained environment right you know which team is going for right you know which team is going for right you know which team is going for which basket you know when there's a which basket you know when there's a which basket you know when there's a turn turnover you know when the turnover turn turnover you know when the turnover turn turnover you know when the turnover got reversed you know it's it's not like got reversed you know it's it's not like got reversed you know it's it's not like most of life where you're in pursuit of most of life where you're in pursuit of most of life where you're in pursuit of things that it's very Dynamic a lot of things that it's very Dynamic a lot of things that it's very Dynamic a lot of uh interwoven goals throughout the day uh interwoven goals throughout the day uh interwoven goals throughout the day Etc but the point being that as we move Etc but the point being that as we move Etc but the point being that as we move through our Pursuits the dopamine system through our Pursuits the dopamine system through our Pursuits the dopamine system is constantly updating okay here's if is constantly updating okay here's if is constantly updating okay here's if you will a a drive down court right you will a a drive down court right you will a a drive down court right toward uh and it's paying attention or toward uh and it's paying attention or toward uh and it's paying attention or it has knowledge of even the sort of the it has knowledge of even the sort of the it has knowledge of even the sort of the the the shorter Milestones like um um the the shorter Milestones like um um the the shorter Milestones like um um you know as we move through this podcast you know as we move through this podcast you know as we move through this podcast there you know I'm not tracking where we there you know I'm not tracking where we there you know I'm not tracking where we are I don't track time very well I'm
1:02are I don't track time very well I'm are I don't track time very well I'm tracking whether or not I can answer tracking whether or not I can answer tracking whether or not I can answer your your questions coherently enough your your questions coherently enough your your questions coherently enough right that's that's how my dopamine right that's that's how my dopamine right that's that's how my dopamine system right now is tacked to this as system right now is tacked to this as system right now is tacked to this as opposed to um people who are you know opposed to um people who are you know opposed to um people who are you know gambling on a game um in Vegas and who gambling on a game um in Vegas and who gambling on a game um in Vegas and who you know final score is really what what you know final score is really what what you know final score is really what what matters but you know talk about dopamine matters but you know talk about dopamine matters but you know talk about dopamine and reward prediction error I mean you and reward prediction error I mean you and reward prediction error I mean you mean that's what Vegas is all about mean that's what Vegas is all about mean that's what Vegas is all about right it's basically the town should be right it's basically the town should be right it's basically the town should be called reward dopamine reward prediction called reward dopamine reward prediction called reward dopamine reward prediction error Town USA because that's what's error Town USA because that's what's error Town USA because that's what's going on there so okay so that was a going on there so okay so that was a going on there so okay so that was a little bit of a Divergence into that one little bit of a Divergence into that one little bit of a Divergence into that one particular study when it comes to particular study when it comes to particular study when it comes to exercise there are a number of ways in exercise there are a number of ways in exercise there are a number of ways in which dopamine can be released in which dopamine can be released in which dopamine can be released in response to effort remember the catacol response to effort remember the catacol response to effort remember the catacol means norepinephrine epinephrine and means norepinephrine epinephrine and means norepinephrine epinephrine and dopamine close cousins biochemically dopamine close cousins biochemically dopamine close cousins biochemically related all of which are involved in related all of which are involved in related all of which are involved in heightened state of arousal Focus heightened state of arousal Focus heightened state of arousal Focus movement effort okay it's it's just the movement effort okay it's it's just the movement effort okay it's it's just the kind of perfect cocktail that nature kind of perfect cocktail that nature kind of perfect cocktail that nature created if we engage in Vigor we know created if we engage in Vigor we know created if we engage in Vigor we know that if you engage in vigorous exercise that if you engage in vigorous exercise that if you engage in vigorous exercise exercise that requires effort and you
1:03exercise that requires effort and you exercise that requires effort and you complete it in a way that feels complete it in a way that feels complete it in a way that feels satisfying to you no doubt you're going satisfying to you no doubt you're going satisfying to you no doubt you're going to get a dopamine increase from that now to get a dopamine increase from that now to get a dopamine increase from that now is it the long elevated increase in is it the long elevated increase in is it the long elevated increase in dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine that one sees with deliberate cold that one sees with deliberate cold that one sees with deliberate cold exposure that's going to be pretty exposure that's going to be pretty exposure that's going to be pretty nuanced I it's going to depend on the nuanced I it's going to depend on the nuanced I it's going to depend on the nature of the exercise I don't know I nature of the exercise I don't know I nature of the exercise I don't know I suspect no now I will say suspect no now I will say suspect no now I will say that I feel very different after a good that I feel very different after a good that I feel very different after a good long morning run or 30 minutes jogging long morning run or 30 minutes jogging long morning run or 30 minutes jogging versus a hard Weight Workout it's just a versus a hard Weight Workout it's just a versus a hard Weight Workout it's just a like it's a subjectively distinct like it's a subjectively distinct like it's a subjectively distinct feeling in the hours afterwards what's feeling in the hours afterwards what's feeling in the hours afterwards what's interesting about deliberate cold interesting about deliberate cold interesting about deliberate cold exposure through you know cold plunge or exposure through you know cold plunge or exposure through you know cold plunge or what have you is that people generally what have you is that people generally what have you is that people generally report feeling very good almost like a report feeling very good almost like a report feeling very good almost like a mild Euphoria for many hours afterwards mild Euphoria for many hours afterwards mild Euphoria for many hours afterwards elevated Focus many hours afterwards and elevated Focus many hours afterwards and elevated Focus many hours afterwards and that Maps beautifully onto the I can see that Maps beautifully onto the I can see that Maps beautifully onto the I can see those images in the in the paper now of those images in the in the paper now of those images in the in the paper now of the you know the big dopamine in the you know the big dopamine in the you know the big dopamine in increase and the norepinephrine increase increase and the norepinephrine increase increase and the norepinephrine increase and I think it's three graphs set above and I think it's three graphs set above and I think it's three graphs set above one another um vertically in that paper
1:04one another um vertically in that paper one another um vertically in that paper where I mean this is long arcs of where I mean this is long arcs of where I mean this is long arcs of dopamine release way above Baseline dopamine release way above Baseline dopamine release way above Baseline distinctly different from what one sees distinctly different from what one sees distinctly different from what one sees with like cocaine or amphetamine which with like cocaine or amphetamine which with like cocaine or amphetamine which is also been measured in humans you know is also been measured in humans you know is also been measured in humans you know the big amplitude big drop below the big amplitude big drop below the big amplitude big drop below Baseline in fact I'm not aware of but Baseline in fact I'm not aware of but Baseline in fact I'm not aware of but base of that in fact I'm not aware that base of that in fact I'm not aware that base of that in fact I'm not aware that what I'm about to say is always true but what I'm about to say is always true but what I'm about to say is always true but in that paper about deliberate cold in that paper about deliberate cold in that paper about deliberate cold exposure I did not see probably because exposure I did not see probably because exposure I did not see probably because they didn't look out that far A Drop In they didn't look out that far A Drop In they didn't look out that far A Drop In Those catacol Mees below Baseline it may Those catacol Mees below Baseline it may Those catacol Mees below Baseline it may be that it just elevates and then tapers be that it just elevates and then tapers be that it just elevates and then tapers down to Baseline again remember the down to Baseline again remember the down to Baseline again remember the slope of line how the faster you get up slope of line how the faster you get up slope of line how the faster you get up to a peak the more of a drop below to a peak the more of a drop below to a peak the more of a drop below Baseline this is why people who smoke Baseline this is why people who smoke Baseline this is why people who smoke crack cocaine faster into the system crack cocaine faster into the system crack cocaine faster into the system than if they bring cocaine into their than if they bring cocaine into their than if they bring cocaine into their system by by snorting it or orally okay system by by snorting it or orally okay system by by snorting it or orally okay we know this that the route of of of we know this that the route of of of we know this that the route of of of Administration has a lot to do with the Administration has a lot to do with the Administration has a lot to do with the amplitude of the dopamine Peak and how amplitude of the dopamine Peak and how amplitude of the dopamine Peak and how how far below Baseline it drops
1:05how far below Baseline it drops how far below Baseline it drops afterwards this is one of the reasons afterwards this is one of the reasons afterwards this is one of the reasons why certain forms of drugs of abuse are why certain forms of drugs of abuse are why certain forms of drugs of abuse are far more reinforcing than others it's far more reinforcing than others it's far more reinforcing than others it's not just that they create more a bigger not just that they create more a bigger not just that they create more a bigger dopamine increase it's how quickly they dopamine increase it's how quickly they dopamine increase it's how quickly they get there and then how quickly and long get there and then how quickly and long get there and then how quickly and long that trough lasts so with exercise I get that trough lasts so with exercise I get that trough lasts so with exercise I get a clear State shift from exercise I'm a clear State shift from exercise I'm a clear State shift from exercise I'm sure you do as well and it's wonderful sure you do as well and it's wonderful sure you do as well and it's wonderful but it's distinctly different from the but it's distinctly different from the but it's distinctly different from the kind of state shift that one gets from kind of state shift that one gets from kind of state shift that one gets from deliberate cold exposure again less data deliberate cold exposure again less data deliberate cold exposure again less data um but one thing that's kind of fun that um but one thing that's kind of fun that um but one thing that's kind of fun that I I don't think I've talked much about I I don't think I've talked much about I I don't think I've talked much about if at all on podcast is the um if at all on podcast is the um if at all on podcast is the um entrainment and anticipation of exercise entrainment and anticipation of exercise entrainment and anticipation of exercise this is kind of neat if you exercise it this is kind of neat if you exercise it this is kind of neat if you exercise it more or less the same time each day for more or less the same time each day for more or less the same time each day for you know 3 days it doesn't even have to you know 3 days it doesn't even have to you know 3 days it doesn't even have to be consecutively what you'll notice is be consecutively what you'll notice is be consecutively what you'll notice is going forward at least for a short going forward at least for a short going forward at least for a short period of time 15 to 30 minutes before period of time 15 to 30 minutes before period of time 15 to 30 minutes before that exercise you'll notice kind of an that exercise you'll notice kind of an that exercise you'll notice kind of an increase in arousal where your your body increase in arousal where your your body increase in arousal where your your body is entrained to to that movement the is entrained to to that movement the is entrained to to that movement the neurochemicals that were released the neurochemicals that were released the neurochemicals that were released the state of arousal has there's some state of arousal has there's some
1:06state of arousal has there's some learning there between the memory learning there between the memory learning there between the memory systems the hypothalamus and the the systems the hypothalamus and the the systems the hypothalamus and the the autonomic nervous system and the body autonomic nervous system and the body autonomic nervous system and the body starts to anticipate being ready if you starts to anticipate being ready if you starts to anticipate being ready if you then don't exercise you can also apply then don't exercise you can also apply then don't exercise you can also apply that elevated Readiness to mental work that elevated Readiness to mental work that elevated Readiness to mental work people oftentimes will say they wake up people oftentimes will say they wake up people oftentimes will say they wake up right before their alarm clock goes off right before their alarm clock goes off right before their alarm clock goes off wild right you wake up you look at your wild right you wake up you look at your wild right you wake up you look at your clock like one more minute what's going clock like one more minute what's going clock like one more minute what's going on well assuming the clock didn't make on well assuming the clock didn't make on well assuming the clock didn't make some sort of noise like a click or some sort of noise like a click or some sort of noise like a click or something like that something like that something like that it's the entrainment to that waking up it's the entrainment to that waking up it's the entrainment to that waking up time even in sleep your body is clocking time even in sleep your body is clocking time even in sleep your body is clocking time your brain is clocking time and time your brain is clocking time and time your brain is clocking time and then you wake up and then the alarm goes then you wake up and then the alarm goes then you wake up and then the alarm goes off the same thing is true if you off the same thing is true if you off the same thing is true if you exercise at the same time and this is exercise at the same time and this is exercise at the same time and this is what's really interesting if you what's really interesting if you what's really interesting if you exercise at more or less the same time exercise at more or less the same time exercise at more or less the same time you can use that elevated arousal at you can use that elevated arousal at you can use that elevated arousal at that time to exercise or do other things that time to exercise or do other things that time to exercise or do other things but then there's the post exercise but then there's the post exercise but then there's the post exercise increase in whatever mental state you increase in whatever mental state you increase in whatever mental state you happen to exit that exercise from again happen to exit that exercise from again happen to exit that exercise from again I say that way I'm not trying to be um I say that way I'm not trying to be um I say that way I'm not trying to be um wishy-washy here because I find that a 8
1:07wishy-washy here because I find that a 8 wishy-washy here because I find that a 8 minute hit workout is distinctly minute hit workout is distinctly minute hit workout is distinctly different from a long jog is distinctly different from a long jog is distinctly different from a long jog is distinctly different from a hard leg day in the gym different from a hard leg day in the gym different from a hard leg day in the gym when it comes to how you feel afterwards when it comes to how you feel afterwards when it comes to how you feel afterwards it's each one has to be neurochemically it's each one has to be neurochemically it's each one has to be neurochemically distinct and hormonally distinct and in distinct and hormonally distinct and in distinct and hormonally distinct and in the laboratory unfortunately most of the the laboratory unfortunately most of the the laboratory unfortunately most of the studies have been done like you know studies have been done like you know studies have been done like you know treadmilling or swimming there there treadmilling or swimming there there treadmilling or swimming there there aren't a lot of studies looking at the aren't a lot of studies looking at the aren't a lot of studies looking at the neurochemical changes that are the neurochemical changes that are the neurochemical changes that are the consequence of different types of consequence of different types of consequence of different types of exercise especially things like hit and exercise especially things like hit and exercise especially things like hit and uh resistance training I'm sure there uh resistance training I'm sure there uh resistance training I'm sure there are a few I'm not aware of them but are a few I'm not aware of them but are a few I'm not aware of them but they're they're far fewer than just they're they're far fewer than just they're they're far fewer than just cardio because it's harder to get people cardio because it's harder to get people cardio because it's harder to get people to come in and you know do a hard you to come in and you know do a hard you to come in and you know do a hard you know hack squats or something like that know hack squats or something like that know hack squats or something like that I think the biggest changes that that's I think the biggest changes that that's I think the biggest changes that that's been done really with with high been done really with with high been done really with with high intensity exercise and like versus like intensity exercise and like versus like intensity exercise and like versus like lower intensity or moderate would be lower intensity or moderate would be lower intensity or moderate would be looking at lactate and how that affects looking at lactate and how that affects looking at lactate and how that affects like norrine and you know other other like norrine and you know other other like norrine and you know other other things but um it's the the the things but um it's the the the things but um it's the the the entrainment thing is interesting because entrainment thing is interesting because entrainment thing is interesting because I'm wondering if like let's say you have I'm wondering if like let's say you have I'm wondering if like let's say you have someone who is not motivated to exercise someone who is not motivated to exercise someone who is not motivated to exercise and let I mean the best thing you can do and let I mean the best thing you can do and let I mean the best thing you can do is get them a coach right like that's is get them a coach right like that's is get them a coach right like that's going to help but if you if you can get
1:08going to help but if you if you can get going to help but if you if you can get them to do the three or four days in a them to do the three or four days in a them to do the three or four days in a row at the same time then on the fifth row at the same time then on the fifth row at the same time then on the fifth or sixth day at that same time are they or sixth day at that same time are they or sixth day at that same time are they going to now because they they have that going to now because they they have that going to now because they they have that like you were saying that that that like like you were saying that that that like like you were saying that that that like motivation like that like like that motivation like that like like that motivation like that like like that anticipation which is you know tied to anticipation which is you know tied to anticipation which is you know tied to the dopamine system then maybe you're the dopamine system then maybe you're the dopamine system then maybe you're going to tap into that like okay we're g going to tap into that like okay we're g going to tap into that like okay we're g to get some of that motivation so it to get some of that motivation so it to get some of that motivation so it would be interesting to come up with would be interesting to come up with would be interesting to come up with like a protocol like how long is it how like a protocol like how long is it how like a protocol like how long is it how many days of training in the same time many days of training in the same time many days of training in the same time of day can we get someone who is of day can we get someone who is of day can we get someone who is completely unmotivated to exercise they completely unmotivated to exercise they completely unmotivated to exercise they just they haven't experienced it right I just they haven't experienced it right I just they haven't experienced it right I would say three to seven days if if we would say three to seven days if if we would say three to seven days if if we based on our our our understanding based on our our our understanding based on our our our understanding excuse me of how the autonomic nervous excuse me of how the autonomic nervous excuse me of how the autonomic nervous system can learn um and how the dopamine system can learn um and how the dopamine system can learn um and how the dopamine system plays into that 3 to seven days system plays into that 3 to seven days system plays into that 3 to seven days maybe not even consecutively I mean I maybe not even consecutively I mean I maybe not even consecutively I mean I always say that the most important thing always say that the most important thing always say that the most important thing with exercise if I were going to write a with exercise if I were going to write a with exercise if I were going to write a chapter on exercises number number one chapter on exercises number number one chapter on exercises number number one don't get hurt but that doesn't mean don't get hurt but that doesn't mean don't get hurt but that doesn't mean don't do it but don't get hurt because don't do it but don't get hurt because don't do it but don't get hurt because the best way to get and stay in great
1:09the best way to get and stay in great the best way to get and stay in great shape in your life is to not get hurt shape in your life is to not get hurt shape in your life is to not get hurt right that's the so you don't want the right that's the so you don't want the right that's the so you don't want the new exerciser like to injure themselves new exerciser like to injure themselves new exerciser like to injure themselves but 3 to seven but 3 to seven but 3 to seven days they should then on the you know days they should then on the you know days they should then on the you know Eighth Day or on the fourth day left of Eighth Day or on the fourth day left of Eighth Day or on the fourth day left of their own devices feel the energy in their own devices feel the energy in their own devices feel the energy in their their their body 15 to 30 minutes before doing that body 15 to 30 minutes before doing that body 15 to 30 minutes before doing that that exercise and hopefully they would that exercise and hopefully they would that exercise and hopefully they would just do that I mean I think that people just do that I mean I think that people just do that I mean I think that people rely um often too heavily on rely um often too heavily on rely um often too heavily on psychological motivators and we overlook psychological motivators and we overlook psychological motivators and we overlook this entrainment phenomenon and the this entrainment phenomenon and the this entrainment phenomenon and the ability for our body to entrain to ability for our body to entrain to ability for our body to entrain to certain times you know I for instance I certain times you know I for instance I certain times you know I for instance I it's a terrible thing but I like to get it's a terrible thing but I like to get it's a terrible thing but I like to get up hydrate caffeinate slowly do some up hydrate caffeinate slowly do some up hydrate caffeinate slowly do some mental work and then my ideal training mental work and then my ideal training mental work and then my ideal training time you know if I ever retire I don't time you know if I ever retire I don't time you know if I ever retire I don't know that I ever will but would be to know that I ever will but would be to know that I ever will but would be to train mid morning like 10:30 amazing I train mid morning like 10:30 amazing I train mid morning like 10:30 amazing I love it my workouts are always best Etc love it my workouts are always best Etc love it my workouts are always best Etc but my life isn't or organiz that way so but my life isn't or organiz that way so but my life isn't or organiz that way so I like to try and exercise within an I like to try and exercise within an I like to try and exercise within an hour of waking up um but I have to drink
1:10hour of waking up um but I have to drink hour of waking up um but I have to drink caffeine first I don't do my 90-minute caffeine first I don't do my 90-minute caffeine first I don't do my 90-minute delay thing I drink my caffeine first if delay thing I drink my caffeine first if delay thing I drink my caffeine first if I'm going to exercise right away and I I'm going to exercise right away and I I'm going to exercise right away and I should say that for people that feel should say that for people that feel should say that for people that feel amotivated what do we do generally we amotivated what do we do generally we amotivated what do we do generally we consume things like caffeine which as we consume things like caffeine which as we consume things like caffeine which as we know disrupts the adenosine system so know disrupts the adenosine system so know disrupts the adenosine system so adenosine being a molecule of sleepiness adenosine being a molecule of sleepiness adenosine being a molecule of sleepiness or fatigue um also upregulates dopamine or fatigue um also upregulates dopamine or fatigue um also upregulates dopamine receptors incidentally it's actually receptors incidentally it's actually receptors incidentally it's actually shown in human dopamine receptors pretty shown in human dopamine receptors pretty shown in human dopamine receptors pretty interesting there Caff regular caffeine interesting there Caff regular caffeine interesting there Caff regular caffeine consumption very likely increases the consumption very likely increases the consumption very likely increases the the sensitivity Endor number of dopamine the sensitivity Endor number of dopamine the sensitivity Endor number of dopamine receptors available so whatever dopamine receptors available so whatever dopamine receptors available so whatever dopamine is released can have quote unquote more is released can have quote unquote more is released can have quote unquote more of an effect in terms of motivation and of an effect in terms of motivation and of an effect in terms of motivation and reward people will take nowadays um and reward people will take nowadays um and reward people will take nowadays um and I'm not passing judgment here but I'm not passing judgment here but I'm not passing judgment here but there's a lot of use of things like there's a lot of use of things like there's a lot of use of things like adderal modafanil viant stimulants what adderal modafanil viant stimulants what adderal modafanil viant stimulants what do all those stimulants do they release do all those stimulants do they release do all those stimulants do they release the catacol amines mainly dopamine and the catacol amines mainly dopamine and the catacol amines mainly dopamine and epinephrine um they they are epinephrine um they they are epinephrine um they they are amphetamines okay people go we going to amphetamines okay people go we going to amphetamines okay people go we going to you know speed yep that's what they are you know speed yep that's what they are you know speed yep that's what they are um again not passing judgment they can
1:11um again not passing judgment they can um again not passing judgment they can have certain positive effects for have certain positive effects for have certain positive effects for certain clinical um issues in some cases certain clinical um issues in some cases certain clinical um issues in some cases again not um promoting or discouraging again not um promoting or discouraging again not um promoting or discouraging just stating the the reality but what do just stating the the reality but what do just stating the the reality but what do people do they take stimulants what did people do they take stimulants what did people do they take stimulants what did I do right before this podcast I'll come I do right before this podcast I'll come I do right before this podcast I'll come clean I don't hide these things I've clean I don't hide these things I've clean I don't hide these things I've been experimenting lately with with 2 been experimenting lately with with 2 been experimenting lately with with 2 milligrams of Nicorette nicotine in the milligrams of Nicorette nicotine in the milligrams of Nicorette nicotine in the form of gum I don't smoke Vape dip or form of gum I don't smoke Vape dip or form of gum I don't smoke Vape dip or snuff those are all bad carcinogenic Etc snuff those are all bad carcinogenic Etc snuff those are all bad carcinogenic Etc I know people say vaping is not as bad I know people say vaping is not as bad I know people say vaping is not as bad as smoking vaping is bad okay it's as as smoking vaping is bad okay it's as as smoking vaping is bad okay it's as bad as smoking probably not but it's not bad as smoking probably not but it's not bad as smoking probably not but it's not good for you don't Vape I just got some good for you don't Vape I just got some good for you don't Vape I just got some enemies but that's my read of the data enemies but that's my read of the data enemies but that's my read of the data more coming but more coming but more coming but nicotine Taps into the acetycholine nicotine Taps into the acetycholine nicotine Taps into the acetycholine system increases focus it also will tap system increases focus it also will tap system increases focus it also will tap into the epinephrine and dopamine system into the epinephrine and dopamine system into the epinephrine and dopamine system it's highly reinforcing so I limit it's highly reinforcing so I limit it's highly reinforcing so I limit myself to 2 myself to 2 myself to 2 milligram maybe four times a week total milligram maybe four times a week total milligram maybe four times a week total and I'm thinking about stopping alog and I'm thinking about stopping alog and I'm thinking about stopping alog together cuz I'm just running this as an together cuz I'm just running this as an together cuz I'm just running this as an experiment on myself and it really experiment on myself and it really experiment on myself and it really really works for me what does it do it
1:12really works for me what does it do it really works for me what does it do it makes me more alert more motivated that makes me more alert more motivated that makes me more alert more motivated that also scares me it's not um and many also scares me it's not um and many also scares me it's not um and many people I know that take they're these people I know that take they're these people I know that take they're these pouches that come in canisters I've pouches that come in canisters I've pouches that come in canisters I've never tried them I don't want to those never tried them I don't want to those never tried them I don't want to those are generally 4 to 8 milligrams of are generally 4 to 8 milligrams of are generally 4 to 8 milligrams of nicotine per pouch I hear over and over nicotine per pouch I hear over and over nicotine per pouch I hear over and over again that people take one they love it again that people take one they love it again that people take one they love it take one pouch they then will do two a take one pouch they then will do two a take one pouch they then will do two a day three a day and pretty quickly day three a day and pretty quickly day three a day and pretty quickly they're assuming a canister or so if not they're assuming a canister or so if not they're assuming a canister or so if not every day every couple of days so it's a every day every couple of days so it's a every day every couple of days so it's a very quick route to let's just call it very quick route to let's just call it very quick route to let's just call it habit is it addictive maybe is it habit habit is it addictive maybe is it habit habit is it addictive maybe is it habit forming clearly um and this is becoming forming clearly um and this is becoming forming clearly um and this is becoming All the Rage now um I don't recommend it All the Rage now um I don't recommend it All the Rage now um I don't recommend it um nicotine is a um nicotine is a um nicotine is a vasoconstrictor um which isn't good vasoconstrictor um which isn't good vasoconstrictor um which isn't good raises blood pressure Etc there's some raises blood pressure Etc there's some raises blood pressure Etc there's some evidence that nicotine can be a evidence that nicotine can be a evidence that nicotine can be a cognitive enhancer and maybe later in cognitive enhancer and maybe later in cognitive enhancer and maybe later in life it might be something that I'll life it might be something that I'll life it might be something that I'll return to um for that reason um but it return to um for that reason um but it return to um for that reason um but it does have certain health hazards um does have certain health hazards um does have certain health hazards um Clips always get cut of me saying the
1:13Clips always get cut of me saying the Clips always get cut of me saying the cognitive part cognitive enhancing part cognitive part cognitive enhancing part cognitive part cognitive enhancing part but the point here is that when people but the point here is that when people but the point here is that when people feel amotivated they tend to look for feel amotivated they tend to look for feel amotivated they tend to look for something that they can ingest remember something that they can ingest remember something that they can ingest remember no effort get the get the molecules no effort get the get the molecules no effort get the get the molecules going and there's nothing wrong with going and there's nothing wrong with going and there's nothing wrong with that a cup of coffee or espresso or that a cup of coffee or espresso or that a cup of coffee or espresso or yeram mate you know I'll do all three yeram mate you know I'll do all three yeram mate you know I'll do all three sometimes and you're more alert you're sometimes and you're more alert you're sometimes and you're more alert you're more arousal you need to do something more arousal you need to do something more arousal you need to do something with that energy and then try and lean with that energy and then try and lean with that energy and then try and lean into work the problem is with into work the problem is with into work the problem is with pharmacolog olog it's hard to get the pharmacolog olog it's hard to get the pharmacolog olog it's hard to get the dose just right so that you have the dose just right so that you have the dose just right so that you have the ideal level of focus ideal level of ideal level of focus ideal level of ideal level of focus ideal level of alertness but not so much that you have alertness but not so much that you have alertness but not so much that you have agitation and your mind is kind of agitation and your mind is kind of agitation and your mind is kind of darting all over the place so um my darting all over the place so um my darting all over the place so um my typical thing is I I will use coffee or typical thing is I I will use coffee or typical thing is I I will use coffee or your bate or both prior to a hard Weight your bate or both prior to a hard Weight your bate or both prior to a hard Weight Workout but when it comes to cardio I Workout but when it comes to cardio I Workout but when it comes to cardio I try and do my cardio without any any try and do my cardio without any any try and do my cardio without any any caffeine or even and certainly no caffeine or even and certainly no caffeine or even and certainly no excessive caffeine maybe a half a cup of excessive caffeine maybe a half a cup of excessive caffeine maybe a half a cup of coffee maybe a y bat or 2 then just get coffee maybe a y bat or 2 then just get coffee maybe a y bat or 2 then just get out and go run in my case or or do the out and go run in my case or or do the out and go run in my case or or do the hit workout and let the workout itself
1:14hit workout and let the workout itself hit workout and let the workout itself be its own source of neurochemicals but be its own source of neurochemicals but be its own source of neurochemicals but um that's just me I know some people are um that's just me I know some people are um that's just me I know some people are doing the energy drinks combined with doing the energy drinks combined with doing the energy drinks combined with nicotine combined with I mean all sorts nicotine combined with I mean all sorts nicotine combined with I mean all sorts of stuff and it's wild because then what of stuff and it's wild because then what of stuff and it's wild because then what they find is in the absence of those they find is in the absence of those they find is in the absence of those things they're amotivated well why it things they're amotivated well why it things they're amotivated well why it was minimal to zero effort followed by was minimal to zero effort followed by was minimal to zero effort followed by high amplitude dopamine release and high amplitude dopamine release and high amplitude dopamine release and probably less directly from the the probably less directly from the the probably less directly from the the exercise that you're doing right you exercise that you're doing right you exercise that you're doing right you talked about the stacking of things that talked about the stacking of things that talked about the stacking of things that are releasing dopamine either you are releasing dopamine either you are releasing dopamine either you because you enjoy them or they're because you enjoy them or they're because you enjoy them or they're something that can release dopamina something that can release dopamina something that can release dopamina substance is what will cause you to have substance is what will cause you to have substance is what will cause you to have the really high amplitude Peak and then the really high amplitude Peak and then the really high amplitude Peak and then you can go below below Baseline how does you can go below below Baseline how does you can go below below Baseline how does caffeine um from coffee affect so you caffeine um from coffee affect so you caffeine um from coffee affect so you mentioned the dopamine receptors is that mentioned the dopamine receptors is that mentioned the dopamine receptors is that so is there like longterm because then so is there like longterm because then so is there like longterm because then you start to like you never feel as good you start to like you never feel as good you start to like you never feel as good as like if you take a break from as like if you take a break from as like if you take a break from caffeine then you have the first cup of caffeine then you have the first cup of caffeine then you have the first cup of coffee right I know I I can't say I coffee right I know I I can't say I coffee right I know I I can't say I relate cuz I I can't remember the last relate cuz I I can't remember the last relate cuz I I can't remember the last time I I took a break from caffeine I've time I I took a break from caffeine I've time I I took a break from caffeine I've done it when I had flues or I was cold
1:15done it when I had flues or I was cold done it when I had flues or I was cold you know had colds or flu cuz I just you know had colds or flu cuz I just you know had colds or flu cuz I just don't want to drink caffeine under those don't want to drink caffeine under those don't want to drink caffeine under those conditions usually like chamomile tea conditions usually like chamomile tea conditions usually like chamomile tea and I'm just huddling in bed or and I'm just huddling in bed or and I'm just huddling in bed or something something something um I love caffeine I don't drink that um I love caffeine I don't drink that um I love caffeine I don't drink that much of it you know but probably total much of it you know but probably total much of it you know but probably total out about 4 500 milligrams a day you out about 4 500 milligrams a day you out about 4 500 milligrams a day you know I weigh 25 2 20 lbs so that's not know I weigh 25 2 20 lbs so that's not know I weigh 25 2 20 lbs so that's not that much and I'm pretty caffeine that much and I'm pretty caffeine that much and I'm pretty caffeine acclimated and I tend to drink caffeine acclimated and I tend to drink caffeine acclimated and I tend to drink caffeine in the early part of the day and not so in the early part of the day and not so in the early part of the day and not so much in the evening or certainly not much in the evening or certainly not much in the evening or certainly not after 300 p.m. so I can sleep well but after 300 p.m. so I can sleep well but after 300 p.m. so I can sleep well but yeah the stacking is something that you yeah the stacking is something that you yeah the stacking is something that you know I don't want to give the impression know I don't want to give the impression know I don't want to give the impression that if you know you have an energy that if you know you have an energy that if you know you have an energy drink like a pre-workout and you got the drink like a pre-workout and you got the drink like a pre-workout and you got the music blasting and you're hydrated and music blasting and you're hydrated and music blasting and you're hydrated and you slept great have a great workout you slept great have a great workout you slept great have a great workout like Crush will work out every once in a like Crush will work out every once in a like Crush will work out every once in a while but don't be surprised if the next while but don't be surprised if the next while but don't be surprised if the next time you're walking into the gym you time you're walking into the gym you time you're walking into the gym you don't feel quite as motivated and I don't feel quite as motivated and I don't feel quite as motivated and I don't think one should rely on that don't think one should rely on that don't think one should rely on that every single time you know that you need every single time you know that you need every single time you know that you need to if you need a stimulant every time to if you need a stimulant every time to if you need a stimulant every time you're going to exercise you are um you're going to exercise you are um you're going to exercise you are um creating a a pattern of behavior and creating a a pattern of behavior and creating a a pattern of behavior and likely some underlying neur
1:16likely some underlying neur likely some underlying neur neurochemical habits that that are not going to serve you well in the long run you're going to feel less motivation to you're going to feel less motivation to you're going to feel less motivation to do the thing that itself can generate do the thing that itself can generate do the thing that itself can generate feelings of motivation and that's what feelings of motivation and that's what feelings of motivation and that's what we've been talking about the use a cold we've been talking about the use a cold we've been talking about the use a cold shower would be a great one because of shower would be a great one because of shower would be a great one because of that long I'm just fascinated by this that long I'm just fascinated by this that long I'm just fascinated by this there I've never seen anything else no there I've never seen anything else no there I've never seen anything else no drug prescription or otherwise no drug prescription or otherwise no drug prescription or otherwise no supplement no um workout that I'm aware supplement no um workout that I'm aware supplement no um workout that I'm aware of of of but I haven't explored every single one but I haven't explored every single one but I haven't explored every single one that creates that long Arc of dopamine that creates that long Arc of dopamine that creates that long Arc of dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine release epinephrine and norepinephrine release epinephrine and norepinephrine release that one minute one minute of being that one minute one minute of being that one minute one minute of being uncomfortably cold can create now in uncomfortably cold can create now in uncomfortably cold can create now in that study it was a longer exposure I that study it was a longer exposure I that study it was a longer exposure I they used warmer temperatures and it was they used warmer temperatures and it was they used warmer temperatures and it was much longer but I think based on my much longer but I think based on my much longer but I think based on my understanding of things you presented understanding of things you presented understanding of things you presented and what I as I understand it the and what I as I understand it the and what I as I understand it the shorter colder exposure no doubt creates shorter colder exposure no doubt creates shorter colder exposure no doubt creates similar subjective experience yeah well similar subjective experience yeah well similar subjective experience yeah well I was going to ask you about that that I was going to ask you about that that I was going to ask you about that that because um the there's a lot more papers because um the there's a lot more papers because um the there's a lot more papers looking at norrine release with respect looking at norrine release with respect looking at norrine release with respect to cold exposure and that can be even 20
1:17to cold exposure and that can be even 20 to cold exposure and that can be even 20 seconds like at you know 39 degrees or seconds like at you know 39 degrees or seconds like at you know 39 degrees or whatever whatever whatever F that quickening of the breath that's a F that quickening of the breath that's a F that quickening of the breath that's a adrenaline is is an incredible molecule adrenaline is is an incredible molecule adrenaline is is an incredible molecule but I'm wondering with the dopamine what but I'm wondering with the dopamine what but I'm wondering with the dopamine what you think and you know this can be some you think and you know this can be some you think and you know this can be some of your opinion of your opinion of your opinion is is is the minimum like duration and what the the minimum like duration and what the the minimum like duration and what the temperature should be to get you know a temperature should be to get you know a temperature should be to get you know a you know increase in the dopamine like you know increase in the dopamine like you know increase in the dopamine like Peak above what you're at like like Peak above what you're at like like Peak above what you're at like like you're talking about yeah so there you're talking about yeah so there you're talking about yeah so there unfortunately there hasn't been a lot of unfortunately there hasn't been a lot of unfortunately there hasn't been a lot of exploration of this and there needs to exploration of this and there needs to exploration of this and there needs to be and at one point my colleague at be and at one point my colleague at be and at one point my colleague at Stanford Craig heler who's done a lot on Stanford Craig heler who's done a lot on Stanford Craig heler who's done a lot on cold exposure and in particular Palmer cold exposure and in particular Palmer cold exposure and in particular Palmer cooling for lowering core body cooling for lowering core body cooling for lowering core body temperature before exercise as a way to temperature before exercise as a way to temperature before exercise as a way to increase and prolong effort a lot of increase and prolong effort a lot of increase and prolong effort a lot of Stanford athletes do this um other Stanford athletes do this um other Stanford athletes do this um other athlet pro athletes do this as well um athlet pro athletes do this as well um athlet pro athletes do this as well um interesting topic um and I were interesting topic um and I were interesting topic um and I were considering doing some work on this um considering doing some work on this um considering doing some work on this um but we haven't gotten around to it I
1:18but we haven't gotten around to it I but we haven't gotten around to it I guess we've both been busy with other guess we've both been busy with other guess we've both been busy with other things but here's how I approach things but here's how I approach things but here's how I approach deliberate cold exposure and people deliberate cold exposure and people deliberate cold exposure and people might scoff and say well that's might scoff and say well that's might scoff and say well that's completely subjective but what I like completely subjective but what I like completely subjective but what I like about it or what I'm about to say is about it or what I'm about to say is about it or what I'm about to say is that it's highly individual it doesn't that it's highly individual it doesn't that it's highly individual it doesn't say 40° for 3 minutes because 40° for 3 say 40° for 3 minutes because 40° for 3 say 40° for 3 minutes because 40° for 3 minutes at 8: a.m. is going to feel very minutes at 8: a.m. is going to feel very minutes at 8: a.m. is going to feel very different than 40° at 3 minutes at 3:00 different than 40° at 3 minutes at 3:00 different than 40° at 3 minutes at 3:00 a.m. no one's doing cold plune at 3:00 a.m. no one's doing cold plune at 3:00 a.m. no one's doing cold plune at 3:00 a.m. unless they're in Seal Team a.m. unless they're in Seal Team a.m. unless they're in Seal Team training or something but if you're training or something but if you're training or something but if you're tired you're stressed people have tired you're stressed people have tired you're stressed people have different levels of of um excitement different levels of of um excitement different levels of of um excitement about the cold or fear of the cold um about the cold or fear of the cold um about the cold or fear of the cold um and so on he here's how I approach it I and so on he here's how I approach it I and so on he here's how I approach it I think of everything in life as it think of everything in life as it think of everything in life as it relates to the stress system as coming relates to the stress system as coming relates to the stress system as coming at you and as like a wall in a vent at you and as like a wall in a vent at you and as like a wall in a vent right it's it's not you're not thinking right it's it's not you're not thinking right it's it's not you're not thinking temperature and duration you're not temperature and duration you're not temperature and duration you're not thinking oh how intense is this thinking oh how intense is this thinking oh how intense is this difficult conversation on a scale of 1 difficult conversation on a scale of 1 difficult conversation on a scale of 1 to 10 and how long is it lasting that's to 10 and how long is it lasting that's to 10 and how long is it lasting that's not how the stress system works we tend
1:19not how the stress system works we tend not how the stress system works we tend to be confronted with stressors that we to be confronted with stressors that we to be confronted with stressors that we either know are coming or are not coming either know are coming or are not coming either know are coming or are not coming so the way I appro approach cold is I so the way I appro approach cold is I so the way I appro approach cold is I look at the cold plunge and I think how look at the cold plunge and I think how look at the cold plunge and I think how resistant am I psychologically to resistant am I psychologically to resistant am I psychologically to getting in it and usually it's very I'm getting in it and usually it's very I'm getting in it and usually it's very I'm not excited to get in I'm excited about not excited to get in I'm excited about not excited to get in I'm excited about the feeling I know will exist when I get the feeling I know will exist when I get the feeling I know will exist when I get out so I think of getting in as the out so I think of getting in as the out so I think of getting in as the first wall it's like climbing over a first wall it's like climbing over a first wall it's like climbing over a wall okay this is the first wall I get wall okay this is the first wall I get wall okay this is the first wall I get over that first wall and then I get in I over that first wall and then I get in I over that first wall and then I get in I like to lower myself to my neck I like like to lower myself to my neck I like like to lower myself to my neck I like to put my hands in I try and move my to put my hands in I try and move my to put my hands in I try and move my arms away from my body because I notice arms away from my body because I notice arms away from my body because I notice when the cold water gets to my armpits when the cold water gets to my armpits when the cold water gets to my armpits that's when it really starts to be that's when it really starts to be that's when it really starts to be uncomfortable and I pay attention to my uncomfortable and I pay attention to my uncomfortable and I pay attention to my breathing a bit or maybe I'll distract breathing a bit or maybe I'll distract breathing a bit or maybe I'll distract myself I find it doesn't really matter myself I find it doesn't really matter myself I find it doesn't really matter and what I'm waiting for is the first and what I'm waiting for is the first and what I'm waiting for is the first impulse to get out so that's the second impulse to get out so that's the second impulse to get out so that's the second wall and then I force myself to get over wall and then I force myself to get over wall and then I force myself to get over that second wall again this is assuming that second wall again this is assuming that second wall again this is assuming that the water isn't so cold that it's that the water isn't so cold that it's that the water isn't so cold that it's going to be damaging and then what I going to be damaging and then what I going to be damaging and then what I start doing is I start counting walls start doing is I start counting walls start doing is I start counting walls and most importantly I start paying and most importantly I start paying and most importantly I start paying attention to how far apart in time those
1:20attention to how far apart in time those attention to how far apart in time those walls are now eventually you just go walls are now eventually you just go walls are now eventually you just go numb and you're not going to feel any numb and you're not going to feel any numb and you're not going to feel any wall you'll go hypothermic so you don't wall you'll go hypothermic so you don't wall you'll go hypothermic so you don't want to do that but what I generally try want to do that but what I generally try want to do that but what I generally try and do is five to 10 walls and it's very and do is five to 10 walls and it's very and do is five to 10 walls and it's very interesting to notice how the waves of interesting to notice how the waves of interesting to notice how the waves of Desire these what I'm calling walls to I Desire these what I'm calling walls to I Desire these what I'm calling walls to I want to get out now now I'm going to want to get out now now I'm going to want to get out now now I'm going to just go over this next wall and this just go over this next wall and this just go over this next wall and this next one what that seems to do and I next one what that seems to do and I next one what that seems to do and I realize I'm not answering your question realize I'm not answering your question realize I'm not answering your question directly but the reason I'm describing directly but the reason I'm describing directly but the reason I'm describing this is that so much has been put to the this is that so much has been put to the this is that so much has been put to the time and the temperature But ultimately time and the temperature But ultimately time and the temperature But ultimately we're we are all highly individual in we're we are all highly individual in we're we are all highly individual in terms of how we react to stressors in a terms of how we react to stressors in a terms of how we react to stressors in a given moment and what I find is that given moment and what I find is that given moment and what I find is that there's tremendous learning in noticing there's tremendous learning in noticing there's tremendous learning in noticing stress coming toward us us confronting stress coming toward us us confronting stress coming toward us us confronting that stress getting past that stress and that stress getting past that stress and that stress getting past that stress and then moving and then moving through it then moving and then moving through it then moving and then moving through it and then when I get and then when I get and then when I get out I always feel much better it's like out I always feel much better it's like out I always feel much better it's like okay there's a relief there you get that okay there's a relief there you get that okay there's a relief there you get that Arc of dopamine release that's quite Arc of dopamine release that's quite Arc of dopamine release that's quite long lasting there's no question I mean long lasting there's no question I mean long lasting there's no question I mean you can like feel it in your body not you can like feel it in your body not you can like feel it in your body not trying to be too you know anecdotal
1:21trying to be too you know anecdotal trying to be too you know anecdotal about this but everyone feels different about this but everyone feels different about this but everyone feels different after cold maybe you're just relieved after cold maybe you're just relieved after cold maybe you're just relieved you got out but and that's it but you you got out but and that's it but you you got out but and that's it but you feel different and then what I'm trying feel different and then what I'm trying feel different and then what I'm trying to do is attach the fact that there was to do is attach the fact that there was to do is attach the fact that there was a feeling of accomplishment in having a feeling of accomplishment in having a feeling of accomplishment in having gone over a certain number of Walls and gone over a certain number of Walls and gone over a certain number of Walls and paying attention so again this is this paying attention so again this is this paying attention so again this is this is not answering your question I is not answering your question I is not answering your question I acknowledge this but the the ability to acknowledge this but the the ability to acknowledge this but the the ability to notice how stress hits you and how you notice how stress hits you and how you notice how stress hits you and how you move through stress and then how your move through stress and then how your move through stress and then how your adrenaline system is like it it's it's adrenaline system is like it it's it's adrenaline system is like it it's it's trying to create agitation so you get trying to create agitation so you get trying to create agitation so you get the hell out of the stressor that's what the hell out of the stressor that's what the hell out of the stressor that's what it's doing and your ability to stay calm it's doing and your ability to stay calm it's doing and your ability to stay calm and to ride through that in a safe way and to ride through that in a safe way and to ride through that in a safe way that is a a skill that I think is that is a a skill that I think is that is a a skill that I think is invaluable far more than sitting there invaluable far more than sitting there invaluable far more than sitting there and just watching the clock tick down and just watching the clock tick down and just watching the clock tick down getting out and then enjoying the getting out and then enjoying the getting out and then enjoying the feeling of being out now to directly feeling of being out now to directly feeling of being out now to directly answer your question what are the answer your question what are the answer your question what are the different parameters that lead to different parameters that lead to different parameters that lead to different patterns of dopamine release different patterns of dopamine release different patterns of dopamine release we don't know with 30 seconds at a very we don't know with 30 seconds at a very we don't know with 30 seconds at a very very cold but still safe temperature do very cold but still safe temperature do very cold but still safe temperature do it my guess is it would my guess is that it my guess is it would my guess is that it my guess is it would my guess is that the catacol amines are released in a the catacol amines are released in a the catacol amines are released in a bolus in parallel from the locus cerus
1:22bolus in parallel from the locus cerus bolus in parallel from the locus cerus nor epinephrine from the adrenals nor epinephrine from the adrenals nor epinephrine from the adrenals adrenaline from the various sources in adrenaline from the various sources in adrenaline from the various sources in the brain that can release dopamine that the brain that can release dopamine that the brain that can release dopamine that they are just released in parallel and they are just released in parallel and they are just released in parallel and we know they have different time courses we know they have different time courses we know they have different time courses well that's even seen in that European well that's even seen in that European well that's even seen in that European Journal of physiology paper you see they Journal of physiology paper you see they Journal of physiology paper you see they have different time courses different have different time courses different have different time courses different amplitudes they're not you know released amplitudes they're not you know released amplitudes they're not you know released as a you know a little kit of like of of as a you know a little kit of like of of as a you know a little kit of like of of you know Blue Angel planes flying right you know Blue Angel planes flying right you know Blue Angel planes flying right next to one another on those graphs they next to one another on those graphs they next to one another on those graphs they have very different Dynamics over time have very different Dynamics over time have very different Dynamics over time but they are released in parallel and but they are released in parallel and but they are released in parallel and then you know would it be that five then you know would it be that five then you know would it be that five minutes at a at a you know 50% cold minutes at a at a you know 50% cold minutes at a at a you know 50% cold colder would release you know X more colder would release you know X more colder would release you know X more dopamine very likely the problem is dopamine very likely the problem is dopamine very likely the problem is right now in in 2024 we don't have great right now in in 2024 we don't have great right now in in 2024 we don't have great ways of measuring these things in real ways of measuring these things in real ways of measuring these things in real time we just don't we're just now time we just don't we're just now time we just don't we're just now getting to the point where you can getting to the point where you can getting to the point where you can measure things like insulin and and you measure things like insulin and and you measure things like insulin and and you know blood glucose in real time in know blood glucose in real time in know blood glucose in real time in really care ways while people are moving really care ways while people are moving really care ways while people are moving about so the short answer is we don't about so the short answer is we don't about so the short answer is we don't know but I do think that there's Great
1:23know but I do think that there's Great know but I do think that there's Great Value in paying attention to how one Value in paying attention to how one Value in paying attention to how one encounters stress moves through stress encounters stress moves through stress encounters stress moves through stress and then when you get out of the cold and then when you get out of the cold and then when you get out of the cold plunge I I don't tend to spend too much plunge I I don't tend to spend too much plunge I I don't tend to spend too much effort thinking about how I feel in that effort thinking about how I feel in that effort thinking about how I feel in that time I just know that it's a complete time I just know that it's a complete time I just know that it's a complete State shift I also know based on my State shift I also know based on my State shift I also know based on my reading of my sleep on my eight sleeper reading of my sleep on my eight sleeper reading of my sleep on my eight sleeper Whoop That doing C plune in the morning Whoop That doing C plune in the morning Whoop That doing C plune in the morning dramatically increases the amount of dramatically increases the amount of dramatically increases the amount of rapid eye movement sleep I get at night rapid eye movement sleep I get at night rapid eye movement sleep I get at night and I don't know the exact reason for and I don't know the exact reason for and I don't know the exact reason for that not incidentally certain forms of that not incidentally certain forms of that not incidentally certain forms of pharmacology not um drugs of abuse but pharmacology not um drugs of abuse but pharmacology not um drugs of abuse but that I've I don't use regularly but that that I've I don't use regularly but that that I've I don't use regularly but that I've used in the past um that increase I've used in the past um that increase I've used in the past um that increase dopamine and and norepinephrine like dopamine and and norepinephrine like dopamine and and norepinephrine like pryin will increase my rapid ey movement pryin will increase my rapid ey movement pryin will increase my rapid ey movement sleep dramatically I currently don't sleep dramatically I currently don't sleep dramatically I currently don't take it I took it years ago for a short take it I took it years ago for a short take it I took it years ago for a short bout of depression I don't don't take it bout of depression I don't don't take it bout of depression I don't don't take it any longer but I decided to take 50 any longer but I decided to take 50 any longer but I decided to take 50 milligrams of pron as a focus Aid at one milligrams of pron as a focus Aid at one milligrams of pron as a focus Aid at one point at doing an experiment there it point at doing an experiment there it point at doing an experiment there it didn't work well for me but I noticed didn't work well for me but I noticed didn't work well for me but I noticed that my rap and eye movement at sleep
1:24that my rap and eye movement at sleep that my rap and eye movement at sleep just at night just spiked like crazy the just at night just spiked like crazy the just at night just spiked like crazy the mount the duration increased by you know mount the duration increased by you know mount the duration increased by you know I think it was about 15% then I stopped I think it was about 15% then I stopped I think it was about 15% then I stopped taking it and went back to it's you know taking it and went back to it's you know taking it and went back to it's you know previous uh value so there's something previous uh value so there's something previous uh value so there's something about adrenaline about adrenaline about adrenaline release perhaps even just early in the release perhaps even just early in the release perhaps even just early in the day that seems to impact sleep at night day that seems to impact sleep at night day that seems to impact sleep at night for people that are uh that don't have a for people that are uh that don't have a for people that are uh that don't have a cold plunge you know and that are cold plunge you know and that are cold plunge you know and that are experiencing maybe a perhaps drop in experiencing maybe a perhaps drop in experiencing maybe a perhaps drop in their their Baseline their their Baseline their their Baseline dopamine what are some other behaviors dopamine what are some other behaviors dopamine what are some other behaviors like I you know that can help to like I you know that can help to like I you know that can help to replenish the dopamine pool I mean we're replenish the dopamine pool I mean we're replenish the dopamine pool I mean we're talking about sleep that would that talking about sleep that would that talking about sleep that would that would be one and also like how you were would be one and also like how you were would be one and also like how you were talking about just just waiting too like talking about just just waiting too like talking about just just waiting too like how how long do you have to wait right how how long do you have to wait right how how long do you have to wait right to experience that yeah well cold shower to experience that yeah well cold shower to experience that yeah well cold shower is always great and it's not just zero is always great and it's not just zero is always great and it's not just zero cost it'll save you on your heating bill cost it'll save you on your heating bill cost it'll save you on your heating bill um cold shower sucks because it's almost um cold shower sucks because it's almost um cold shower sucks because it's almost like the fact that part of you can be like the fact that part of you can be like the fact that part of you can be out of the cold makes it worse you like out of the cold makes it worse you like out of the cold makes it worse you like like part of you can be slightly warmer like part of you can be slightly warmer like part of you can be slightly warmer whereas with the cold plunge you're whereas with the cold plunge you're whereas with the cold plunge you're you're all in up to the neck hopefully
1:25you're all in up to the neck hopefully you're all in up to the neck hopefully um sometimes people get their hands out um sometimes people get their hands out um sometimes people get their hands out and I don't judge I think that's fine um and I don't judge I think that's fine um and I don't judge I think that's fine um people have different levels of Vaso people have different levels of Vaso people have different levels of Vaso constriction and pain from the from the constriction and pain from the from the constriction and pain from the from the cold so you want to be fair it does not cold so you want to be fair it does not cold so you want to be fair it does not a problem to keep your hands out as I a problem to keep your hands out as I a problem to keep your hands out as I understand it um cold shower is great I understand it um cold shower is great I understand it um cold shower is great I think the high-intensity interval think the high-intensity interval think the high-intensity interval training that I know you're a big fan of training that I know you're a big fan of training that I know you're a big fan of that's a remarkable tool not only is it that's a remarkable tool not only is it that's a remarkable tool not only is it brief but it deploys all these systems brief but it deploys all these systems brief but it deploys all these systems these neurochemical systems that create these neurochemical systems that create these neurochemical systems that create alertness also because it's brief and it alertness also because it's brief and it alertness also because it's brief and it does that you're unlikely to fatigue does that you're unlikely to fatigue does that you're unlikely to fatigue yourself to the point where cognitive yourself to the point where cognitive yourself to the point where cognitive work is harder you this is something work is harder you this is something work is harder you this is something that isn't often discussed but that isn't often discussed but that isn't often discussed but um a good hard work leg workout midm um a good hard work leg workout midm um a good hard work leg workout midm morning for me is great but then you morning for me is great but then you morning for me is great but then you know then I eat a meal and then by 2 or know then I eat a meal and then by 2 or know then I eat a meal and then by 2 or 3 in the afternoon I haven't measured my 3 in the afternoon I haven't measured my 3 in the afternoon I haven't measured my brain oxygenation levels at those times brain oxygenation levels at those times brain oxygenation levels at those times but I am not focused it is really hard but I am not focused it is really hard but I am not focused it is really hard to focus whereas it's interesting if I to focus whereas it's interesting if I to focus whereas it's interesting if I exercise earlier in the day I notice a exercise earlier in the day I notice a exercise earlier in the day I notice a significant increase in energy all day significant increase in energy all day significant increase in energy all day long I don't know why that is or if
1:26long I don't know why that is or if long I don't know why that is or if anyone else has experienced that but anyone else has experienced that but anyone else has experienced that but certain resistance training regimens can certain resistance training regimens can certain resistance training regimens can be really depleting you know especially be really depleting you know especially be really depleting you know especially if you're doing sets to failure and I if you're doing sets to failure and I if you're doing sets to failure and I try and limit my resistance training I try and limit my resistance training I try and limit my resistance training I do it three times a week ideally and I do it three times a week ideally and I do it three times a week ideally and I try and do 10 minutes or 15 minutes of try and do 10 minutes or 15 minutes of try and do 10 minutes or 15 minutes of warm-up usually a smaller movement or warm-up usually a smaller movement or warm-up usually a smaller movement or something like that um some warmup sets something like that um some warmup sets something like that um some warmup sets and then 45 to 55 minutes of work and then 45 to 55 minutes of work and then 45 to 55 minutes of work and that's it and the the reason is if I and that's it and the the reason is if I and that's it and the the reason is if I leave the gym then I have energy to leave the gym then I have energy to leave the gym then I have energy to spare mental and physical energy whereas spare mental and physical energy whereas spare mental and physical energy whereas if I take it to the point where if I take it to the point where if I take it to the point where everything's left on the mat you know everything's left on the mat you know everything's left on the mat you know I'm just like depleted I actually am I'm just like depleted I actually am I'm just like depleted I actually am depleted for several hours if not days depleted for several hours if not days depleted for several hours if not days afterwards maybe my recovery quotient afterwards maybe my recovery quotient afterwards maybe my recovery quotient isn't as good maybe I'm not hydrating isn't as good maybe I'm not hydrating isn't as good maybe I'm not hydrating enough but I try and do all the things enough but I try and do all the things enough but I try and do all the things so and and still that's the case so what so and and still that's the case so what so and and still that's the case so what I recommend people do this is just I recommend people do this is just I recommend people do this is just what's worked for me if they are a what's worked for me if they are a what's worked for me if they are a person person that has other demands in person person that has other demands in person person that has other demands in life they're not an athlete or solely life they're not an athlete or solely life they're not an athlete or solely devoted to their physical fitness is I devoted to their physical fitness is I devoted to their physical fitness is I try and make 80 to 85% of my workouts
1:27try and make 80 to 85% of my workouts try and make 80 to 85% of my workouts about 80 to 85% intensity meaning I'm about 80 to 85% intensity meaning I'm about 80 to 85% intensity meaning I'm not doing forced repetitions I'm not um not doing forced repetitions I'm not um not doing forced repetitions I'm not um pushing past an hour of total work maybe pushing past an hour of total work maybe pushing past an hour of total work maybe even more like 45 to 55 minutes of total even more like 45 to 55 minutes of total even more like 45 to 55 minutes of total work um I try and do an additional you work um I try and do an additional you work um I try and do an additional you know 10% of workouts at higher intensity know 10% of workouts at higher intensity know 10% of workouts at higher intensity 90% intensity and this is all subjective 90% intensity and this is all subjective 90% intensity and this is all subjective but this would mean more sets to failure but this would mean more sets to failure but this would mean more sets to failure this would mean a couple of you know this would mean a couple of you know this would mean a couple of you know Advanced things like you know four stps Advanced things like you know four stps Advanced things like you know four stps or drop sets at the last set of a or drop sets at the last set of a or drop sets at the last set of a exercise and then maybe just five% of of exercise and then maybe just five% of of exercise and then maybe just five% of of workouts resistance or cardiovascular workouts resistance or cardiovascular workouts resistance or cardiovascular workouts are all out everything I can workouts are all out everything I can workouts are all out everything I can give and so that really ends up being give and so that really ends up being give and so that really ends up being like I don't know just a few per year like I don't know just a few per year like I don't know just a few per year for me this last year the the hardest for me this last year the the hardest for me this last year the the hardest workout I did maybe Ever Was That 72lb workout I did maybe Ever Was That 72lb workout I did maybe Ever Was That 72lb Rock carry that cam Haynes had me do Rock carry that cam Haynes had me do Rock carry that cam Haynes had me do because there were moments during that because there were moments during that because there were moments during that thing I told myself I wasn't going to thing I told myself I wasn't going to thing I told myself I wasn't going to put the rock down and then when you said put the rock down and then when you said put the rock down and then when you said on camera you better not put the rock on camera you better not put the rock on camera you better not put the rock down and Cam's there and I just decided down and Cam's there and I just decided down and Cam's there and I just decided that's it this is this is the one this
1:28that's it this is this is the one this that's it this is this is the one this isn't for me is like an 11 out of 10 isn't for me is like an 11 out of 10 isn't for me is like an 11 out of 10 effort you know there's I did I I don't effort you know there's I did I I don't effort you know there's I did I I don't know what more I had in me Goggins would know what more I had in me Goggins would know what more I had in me Goggins would probably say I was only at 40% of what I probably say I was only at 40% of what I probably say I was only at 40% of what I could give but it felt to me like could give but it felt to me like could give but it felt to me like everything I could possibly give I don't everything I could possibly give I don't everything I could possibly give I don't do that sort of training very often and do that sort of training very often and do that sort of training very often and I find it takes us back to a couple of I find it takes us back to a couple of I find it takes us back to a couple of important things one is the best way to important things one is the best way to important things one is the best way to get and stay in great shape is to not get and stay in great shape is to not get and stay in great shape is to not get hurt you do those kinds of workouts get hurt you do those kinds of workouts get hurt you do those kinds of workouts too often you're the person the guy or G too often you're the person the guy or G too often you're the person the guy or G with the injury that you're always with the injury that you're always with the injury that you're always talking about right that that we hear talking about right that that we hear talking about right that that we hear from you know my back my this my that from you know my back my this my that from you know my back my this my that and they're not training or they're in and they're not training or they're in and they're not training or they're in surgery or they have to deal with pain surgery or they have to deal with pain surgery or they have to deal with pain stuff which fortunately I don't the stuff which fortunately I don't the stuff which fortunately I don't the other reason is that if you leave some other reason is that if you leave some other reason is that if you leave some gas in the tank when we say gas in the gas in the tank when we say gas in the gas in the tank when we say gas in the tank I don't think we're just talking tank I don't think we're just talking tank I don't think we're just talking about glycogen and caloric energy I about glycogen and caloric energy I about glycogen and caloric energy I think we're talking about the riding of think we're talking about the riding of think we're talking about the riding of that neurochemical wavefront and no that neurochemical wavefront and no that neurochemical wavefront and no doubt endocrine hormonal wavefront also doubt endocrine hormonal wavefront also doubt endocrine hormonal wavefront also and using that for other things I mean I and using that for other things I mean I and using that for other things I mean I use the coal plunge cuz I like the way use the coal plunge cuz I like the way use the coal plunge cuz I like the way it makes me feel and I can apply it to it makes me feel and I can apply it to it makes me feel and I can apply it to work I can apply it to energy I can
1:29work I can apply it to energy I can work I can apply it to energy I can apply it to mood outside of the cold apply it to mood outside of the cold apply it to mood outside of the cold plunge I don't live to get in the Cal plunge I don't live to get in the Cal plunge I don't live to get in the Cal plunge I use the cold plunge to live you plunge I use the cold plunge to live you plunge I use the cold plunge to live you know that wasn't meant to be a you know know that wasn't meant to be a you know know that wasn't meant to be a you know saying but same thing with working out I saying but same thing with working out I saying but same thing with working out I use the gym I enjoy working out I love use the gym I enjoy working out I love use the gym I enjoy working out I love running but I use it as a stimulus for running but I use it as a stimulus for running but I use it as a stimulus for the brain that then I can go apply and the brain that then I can go apply and the brain that then I can go apply and be more present for other things and I be more present for other things and I be more present for other things and I think if people looked at physical think if people looked at physical think if people looked at physical exercise that way um I think a would be exercise that way um I think a would be exercise that way um I think a would be less daunting B they'd really start to less daunting B they'd really start to less daunting B they'd really start to understand and appreciate how the phys understand and appreciate how the phys understand and appreciate how the phys our physiology in one Endeavor tethers our physiology in one Endeavor tethers our physiology in one Endeavor tethers to another Endeavor and you start to to another Endeavor and you start to to another Endeavor and you start to learn a lot about yourself I mean this learn a lot about yourself I mean this learn a lot about yourself I mean this is becoming a bit more you know is becoming a bit more you know is becoming a bit more you know subjective as I describ it but you know subjective as I describ it but you know subjective as I describ it but you know for me learning how one's Body Works and for me learning how one's Body Works and for me learning how one's Body Works and how the brain and body interact and how how the brain and body interact and how how the brain and body interact and how exercise influences cognitive function exercise influences cognitive function exercise influences cognitive function and mood and I find it so important and mood and I find it so important and mood and I find it so important because that's how you navigate the the because that's how you navigate the the because that's how you navigate the the challenges and also the great stuff of challenges and also the great stuff of challenges and also the great stuff of Life whereas getting really tacked to Life whereas getting really tacked to Life whereas getting really tacked to just performance in the workout and then
1:30just performance in the workout and then just performance in the workout and then constraining like that's it doesn't constraining like that's it doesn't constraining like that's it doesn't doesn't do much for me uh put doesn't do much for me uh put doesn't do much for me uh put differently um I have a little note on differently um I have a little note on differently um I have a little note on my laptop which says you know um my laptop which says you know um my laptop which says you know um completing a short bout of hard work completing a short bout of hard work completing a short bout of hard work always makes me feel better and I have always makes me feel better and I have always makes me feel better and I have to remind myself that yeah it's kind of to remind myself that yeah it's kind of to remind myself that yeah it's kind of cheesy it's corny I get it um but I cheesy it's corny I get it um but I cheesy it's corny I get it um but I wrote it so I put it there and I know wrote it so I put it there and I know wrote it so I put it there and I know that in the morning there's this time that in the morning there's this time that in the morning there's this time when I can drink into doing things that when I can drink into doing things that when I can drink into doing things that are very passive consumption but if I do are very passive consumption but if I do are very passive consumption but if I do one thing read one chapter of a book put one thing read one chapter of a book put one thing read one chapter of a book put together a post that is hard to deliver together a post that is hard to deliver together a post that is hard to deliver in one one take or go and read a paper in one one take or go and read a paper in one one take or go and read a paper or do something that's challenging it's or do something that's challenging it's or do something that's challenging it's like this lift in my brain and body that like this lift in my brain and body that like this lift in my brain and body that I can't describe it's like I did the I can't describe it's like I did the I can't describe it's like I did the coal plunge I have a a long Arc of of coal plunge I have a a long Arc of of coal plunge I have a a long Arc of of elevated sense of accomplishment and and elevated sense of accomplishment and and elevated sense of accomplishment and and well-being and motivation and I I we well-being and motivation and I I we well-being and motivation and I I we haven't done the brain Imaging haven't done the brain Imaging haven't done the brain Imaging experiment but no doubt it's the experiment but no doubt it's the experiment but no doubt it's the translation of these of the activation translation of these of the activation translation of these of the activation of these very generic all form circuit of these very generic all form circuit of these very generic all form circuit or I should say circuits for all forms or I should say circuits for all forms or I should say circuits for all forms of motivation to other things that I
1:31of motivation to other things that I of motivation to other things that I pivot into so again it's subjective pivot into so again it's subjective pivot into so again it's subjective there's I'm not talking about a there's I'm not talking about a there's I'm not talking about a peer-reviewed study in that case but I peer-reviewed study in that case but I peer-reviewed study in that case but I find it to be very useful just to learn find it to be very useful just to learn find it to be very useful just to learn how to do something challenging and how to do something challenging and how to do something challenging and along those lines forgive me for going along those lines forgive me for going along those lines forgive me for going along that I'm just so excited about along that I'm just so excited about along that I'm just so excited about there's this literature that's emerged there's this literature that's emerged there's this literature that's emerged recently on the anterior mid singulate recently on the anterior mid singulate recently on the anterior mid singulate cortex which is a brain area most cortex which is a brain area most cortex which is a brain area most neuroscientists aren't aware of but my neuroscientists aren't aware of but my neuroscientists aren't aware of but my colleague at Stanford Joe parvey who's a colleague at Stanford Joe parvey who's a colleague at Stanford Joe parvey who's a neurosurgeon um was poking around in neurosurgeon um was poking around in neurosurgeon um was poking around in this brain area stimulating it in a this brain area stimulating it in a this brain area stimulating it in a patient and then subsequently other patient and then subsequently other patient and then subsequently other patients and found that if he stimulated patients and found that if he stimulated patients and found that if he stimulated in the anterior mid singulate cortex in the anterior mid singulate cortex in the anterior mid singulate cortex these patients would describe a feeling these patients would describe a feeling these patients would describe a feeling a subjective feeling of like a storm a subjective feeling of like a storm a subjective feeling of like a storm coming or a challenge and they felt like coming or a challenge and they felt like coming or a challenge and they felt like they were going to lean into it super they were going to lean into it super they were going to lean into it super interesting move the electrode back a interesting move the electrode back a interesting move the electrode back a little bit further they don't report little bit further they don't report little bit further they don't report anything like that stimulate again an anything like that stimulate again an anything like that stimulate again an inter mid singulate cortex it's like inter mid singulate cortex it's like inter mid singulate cortex it's like there's a challenge coming but I can there's a challenge coming but I can there's a challenge coming but I can take it this is amazing right this is a take it this is amazing right this is a take it this is amazing right this is a state shift and a cognitive shift into I state shift and a cognitive shift into I state shift and a cognitive shift into I forward Center of forward Center of forward Center of mass there are other studies showing mass there are other studies showing mass there are other studies showing that this brain area is maintained in
1:32that this brain area is maintained in that this brain area is maintained in size in volume in people that maintain size in volume in people that maintain size in volume in people that maintain cognitive function later into life it cognitive function later into life it cognitive function later into life it increases in size and even activity in increases in size and even activity in increases in size and even activity in people who are successful dieters it people who are successful dieters it people who are successful dieters it atrophies in people that fail to reach atrophies in people that fail to reach atrophies in people that fail to reach certain goals there's now you know not a certain goals there's now you know not a certain goals there's now you know not a huge but a decent um size body of work huge but a decent um size body of work huge but a decent um size body of work supporting the fact that the anterior supporting the fact that the anterior supporting the fact that the anterior mid singlet cortex which by the way is a mid singlet cortex which by the way is a mid singlet cortex which by the way is a hub that gets input from lots of systems hub that gets input from lots of systems hub that gets input from lots of systems including the dopamine system memory including the dopamine system memory including the dopamine system memory lots and lots of different brain areas lots and lots of different brain areas lots and lots of different brain areas inputs and outputs to enter a mid inputs and outputs to enter a mid inputs and outputs to enter a mid singulate cortex but it's a brain area singulate cortex but it's a brain area singulate cortex but it's a brain area that is engaged and that seems to that is engaged and that seems to that is engaged and that seems to increase in activity and maybe even size increase in activity and maybe even size increase in activity and maybe even size when we engage in effort that we don't when we engage in effort that we don't when we engage in effort that we don't want to engage in so if you love working want to engage in so if you love working want to engage in so if you love working out probably less activation of this out probably less activation of this out probably less activation of this brain structure if you force yourself to brain structure if you force yourself to brain structure if you force yourself to do something more activation of this do something more activation of this do something more activation of this brain structure it seems to be related brain structure it seems to be related brain structure it seems to be related to tenacity willpower and possibly again to tenacity willpower and possibly again to tenacity willpower and possibly again Poss possibly the desire to live it Poss possibly the desire to live it Poss possibly the desire to live it might even be part of the circuitry to might even be part of the circuitry to might even be part of the circuitry to continue pushing on in life um you know
1:33continue pushing on in life um you know continue pushing on in life um you know kind of a high level concept but these kind of a high level concept but these kind of a high level concept but these what they call superagers have if you what they call superagers have if you what they call superagers have if you look at the brain areas that maintain look at the brain areas that maintain look at the brain areas that maintain size into later adulthood as compared to size into later adulthood as compared to size into later adulthood as compared to age match controls the inter mid age match controls the inter mid age match controls the inter mid singulate cortex is one of the two that singulate cortex is one of the two that singulate cortex is one of the two that represents the most significant represents the most significant represents the most significant difference so I find this brain area be difference so I find this brain area be difference so I find this brain area be really cool and if ever there was really cool and if ever there was really cool and if ever there was motivation for taking on some hard motivation for taking on some hard motivation for taking on some hard things or a hard thing that you don't things or a hard thing that you don't things or a hard thing that you don't want to do uh maybe it's resisting doing want to do uh maybe it's resisting doing want to do uh maybe it's resisting doing something maybe it's doing something um something maybe it's doing something um something maybe it's doing something um I I think it's the the data on the inter I I think it's the the data on the inter I I think it's the the data on the inter mid singulate cortex this along the same mid singulate cortex this along the same mid singulate cortex this along the same lines it kind of reminds me of of some lines it kind of reminds me of of some lines it kind of reminds me of of some of and I'd be curious to know what your of and I'd be curious to know what your of and I'd be curious to know what your thoughts are on the quality of data if thoughts are on the quality of data if thoughts are on the quality of data if you've if you've looked at it doing you've if you've looked at it doing you've if you've looked at it doing something like direct um trans cranial something like direct um trans cranial something like direct um trans cranial direct um stimulation or trans direct um stimulation or trans direct um stimulation or trans transcranial magnetic transcranial magnetic transcranial magnetic stimulation maybe that brain region or stimulation maybe that brain region or stimulation maybe that brain region or you know I think the the prefrontal you know I think the the prefrontal you know I think the the prefrontal cortex and terms of motivation I mean I cortex and terms of motivation I mean I cortex and terms of motivation I mean I think I came across study was like think I came across study was like think I came across study was like people they they stimulated a certain people they they stimulated a certain people they they stimulated a certain brain region and they were motivated to brain region and they were motivated to brain region and they were motivated to work out like they were like motivated work out like they were like motivated work out like they were like motivated to exercise yeah um I I haven't seen
1:34to exercise yeah um I I haven't seen to exercise yeah um I I haven't seen that paper but it makes I said sure that paper but it makes I said sure that paper but it makes I said sure because it makes perfect sense you know because it makes perfect sense you know because it makes perfect sense you know transcranial magnetic stimulation transcranial magnetic stimulation transcranial magnetic stimulation non-invasive approach which originally non-invasive approach which originally non-invasive approach which originally was used to quiet brain areas now can be was used to quiet brain areas now can be was used to quiet brain areas now can be used to stimulate brain areas ultrasound used to stimulate brain areas ultrasound used to stimulate brain areas ultrasound now can be um can do this as well uh my now can be um can do this as well uh my now can be um can do this as well uh my colleague Nolan Williams at Stanford is colleague Nolan Williams at Stanford is colleague Nolan Williams at Stanford is using this in combination with studies using this in combination with studies using this in combination with studies of psychedelics to increase plasticity of psychedelics to increase plasticity of psychedelics to increase plasticity in certain brain regions I mean it's in certain brain regions I mean it's in certain brain regions I mean it's it's a wonderful in principle wonderful it's a wonderful in principle wonderful it's a wonderful in principle wonderful non-invasive way to activate or non-invasive way to activate or non-invasive way to activate or deactivate certain brain regions makes deactivate certain brain regions makes deactivate certain brain regions makes perfect sense to me that if one were to perfect sense to me that if one were to perfect sense to me that if one were to stimulate certain brain regions they stimulate certain brain regions they stimulate certain brain regions they people feel more more alert more ready people feel more more alert more ready people feel more more alert more ready to go in fact there's a beautiful to go in fact there's a beautiful to go in fact there's a beautiful description of vagal nerve stimulation description of vagal nerve stimulation description of vagal nerve stimulation in a I think it's a New Yorker article in a I think it's a New Yorker article in a I think it's a New Yorker article um about my colleague Carl daero one of um about my colleague Carl daero one of um about my colleague Carl daero one of the greatest neuroscientists of all time the greatest neuroscientists of all time the greatest neuroscientists of all time he's a bio-engineer a psychiatrist and he's a bio-engineer a psychiatrist and he's a bio-engineer a psychiatrist and in that article they describe an in that article they describe an in that article they describe an interaction he had with a patient she interaction he had with a patient she interaction he had with a patient she has a stimulator on her Vegas nerve a has a stimulator on her Vegas nerve a has a stimulator on her Vegas nerve a lot of people think the Vagas nerve lot of people think the Vagas nerve lot of people think the Vagas nerve stimulation always leads to states of stimulation always leads to states of stimulation always leads to states of calm that is not true vagal nerve calm that is not true vagal nerve calm that is not true vagal nerve stimulation is one way to increase
1:35stimulation is one way to increase stimulation is one way to increase arousal and alertness so we need to arousal and alertness so we need to arousal and alertness so we need to revise our understanding the sort of revise our understanding the sort of revise our understanding the sort of popular understanding of popular understanding of popular understanding of Vegas there's a conversation that's Vegas there's a conversation that's Vegas there's a conversation that's recorded in that article where this recorded in that article where this recorded in that article where this patient is sadly suicidally depressed patient is sadly suicidally depressed patient is sadly suicidally depressed she's saying you know I I don't want to she's saying you know I I don't want to she's saying you know I I don't want to live I don't anticipate much of a future live I don't anticipate much of a future live I don't anticipate much of a future um I can't get excited about things they um I can't get excited about things they um I can't get excited about things they ramp up the stimulation on her Vegas ramp up the stimulation on her Vegas ramp up the stimulation on her Vegas nerve which feeds into a number of the nerve which feeds into a number of the nerve which feeds into a number of the sort of um core arousal uh circuits sort of um core arousal uh circuits sort of um core arousal uh circuits within the brain hypothalamus Locus within the brain hypothalamus Locus within the brain hypothalamus Locus cerus and elsewhere either indirectly or cerus and elsewhere either indirectly or cerus and elsewhere either indirectly or directly and in real time she starts directly and in real time she starts directly and in real time she starts saying yeah you know I could imagine saying yeah you know I could imagine saying yeah you know I could imagine myself going out and applying for a job myself going out and applying for a job myself going out and applying for a job or you know pursuing some you know it's or you know pursuing some you know it's or you know pursuing some you know it's like you're watching these this like you're watching these this like you're watching these this depressive tone peel away and not just depressive tone peel away and not just depressive tone peel away and not just peel away to a place of neutrality but peel away to a place of neutrality but peel away to a place of neutrality but peel away to a place of forward Center peel away to a place of forward Center peel away to a place of forward Center of Mass if ever there was evidence that of Mass if ever there was evidence that of Mass if ever there was evidence that like what goes on in our brains is like what goes on in our brains is like what goes on in our brains is influencing these these broad influencing these these broad
1:36influencing these these broad motivational and psychological States motivational and psychological States motivational and psychological States it's that and I realize as people hear it's that and I realize as people hear it's that and I realize as people hear that a lot of people say well of course that a lot of people say well of course that a lot of people say well of course it's the brain right to stimulate one it's the brain right to stimulate one it's the brain right to stimulate one brain region you get rage stimulate brain region you get rage stimulate brain region you get rage stimulate another brain region people lean into another brain region people lean into another brain region people lean into effort stimulate another brain region effort stimulate another brain region effort stimulate another brain region people start crying and are sad and they people start crying and are sad and they people start crying and are sad and they don't know why it all makes sense but don't know why it all makes sense but don't know why it all makes sense but what's so exciting about transcranial what's so exciting about transcranial what's so exciting about transcranial magnetic stimulation is that it's magnetic stimulation is that it's magnetic stimulation is that it's non-invasive so we're not talking about non-invasive so we're not talking about non-invasive so we're not talking about a surgery I think the issue is how a surgery I think the issue is how a surgery I think the issue is how precisely the stimulation can be precisely the stimulation can be precisely the stimulation can be delivered and then how persistently it delivered and then how persistently it delivered and then how persistently it needs to be delivered um so do people needs to be delivered um so do people needs to be delivered um so do people have to return to the clinic over and have to return to the clinic over and have to return to the clinic over and over again and I really think in the over again and I really think in the over again and I really think in the next 5 10 years thanks to the efforts of next 5 10 years thanks to the efforts of next 5 10 years thanks to the efforts of neuralink and and other Laboratories I neuralink and and other Laboratories I neuralink and and other Laboratories I mean to be fair you know brain mean to be fair you know brain mean to be fair you know brain augmentation through electrodes is augmentation through electrodes is augmentation through electrodes is something that's been going on in something that's been going on in something that's been going on in academic Laboratories for a long time academic Laboratories for a long time academic Laboratories for a long time neuralink is you know making great neuralink is you know making great neuralink is you know making great progress there as well but I think the progress there as well but I think the progress there as well but I think the development of non-invasive tools maybe development of non-invasive tools maybe development of non-invasive tools maybe it'll be you know you go in and they you it'll be you know you go in and they you it'll be you know you go in and they you know shave a small patch of hair God know shave a small patch of hair God know shave a small patch of hair God forbid a little bit it'll grow back and forbid a little bit it'll grow back and forbid a little bit it'll grow back and then they put a little let's say dim
1:37then they put a little let's say dim then they put a little let's say dim siiz stimulator on the surface of the siiz stimulator on the surface of the siiz stimulator on the surface of the skull and close that up and then by skull and close that up and then by skull and close that up and then by bluetooth every once in a while someone bluetooth every once in a while someone bluetooth every once in a while someone is just is just is just stimulating magnetic stimulation of some stimulating magnetic stimulation of some stimulating magnetic stimulation of some brain area and they're feeling better I brain area and they're feeling better I brain area and they're feeling better I I imagine that will happen within 5 I imagine that will happen within 5 I imagine that will happen within 5 years or so I don't think that it's years or so I don't think that it's years or so I don't think that it's going to require a wire down deep into going to require a wire down deep into going to require a wire down deep into the brain in every case there will be the brain in every case there will be the brain in every case there will be cases where that's required neur surgery cases where that's required neur surgery cases where that's required neur surgery but I think uh we're very quickly headed but I think uh we're very quickly headed but I think uh we're very quickly headed towards a time where um non-invasive towards a time where um non-invasive towards a time where um non-invasive tools for directed brain stimulation and tools for directed brain stimulation and tools for directed brain stimulation and everybody who needs it is going to be everybody who needs it is going to be everybody who needs it is going to be the reality and the beauty of the reality and the beauty of the reality and the beauty of Neuroscience over the last 10 years is Neuroscience over the last 10 years is Neuroscience over the last 10 years is that the the the circuitries are being that the the the circuitries are being that the the the circuitries are being identified I mean what you need to know identified I mean what you need to know identified I mean what you need to know which brain areas to Target right the which brain areas to Target right the which brain areas to Target right the anterior mid singulate cortex has been anterior mid singulate cortex has been anterior mid singulate cortex has been on the anatomy charts for a long time on the anatomy charts for a long time on the anatomy charts for a long time but wasn't clear what it did and so all but wasn't clear what it did and so all but wasn't clear what it did and so all this poking around with electrodes in this poking around with electrodes in this poking around with electrodes in neurosurgery patients is um is with neurosurgery patients is um is with neurosurgery patients is um is with purpose and goodness I mean I I can't purpose and goodness I mean I I can't purpose and goodness I mean I I can't think of a more important thing and also
1:38think of a more important thing and also think of a more important thing and also if you think about it you're talking if you think about it you're talking if you think about it you're talking about the release of neurochemicals from about the release of neurochemicals from about the release of neurochemicals from specific circuits to get specific specific circuits to get specific specific circuits to get specific results when people take a drug which is results when people take a drug which is results when people take a drug which is one of the best tools we have now people one of the best tools we have now people one of the best tools we have now people take a drug like let's say Wellbutrin to take a drug like let's say Wellbutrin to take a drug like let's say Wellbutrin to increase dopamine and increase dopamine and increase dopamine and norepinephrine it's doing that all over norepinephrine it's doing that all over norepinephrine it's doing that all over the brain it's doing that you know in the brain it's doing that you know in the brain it's doing that you know in wherever you know those neur modulators wherever you know those neur modulators wherever you know those neur modulators are are able to be released it's not are are able to be released it's not are are able to be released it's not selective for one particular circuit selective for one particular circuit selective for one particular circuit it's also causing changes in the body um it's also causing changes in the body um it's also causing changes in the body um has some positive effects you know has some positive effects you know has some positive effects you know hopefully um but potentially some hopefully um but potentially some hopefully um but potentially some negative effects it depends and dosages negative effects it depends and dosages negative effects it depends and dosages are hard um to adjust in a very in a are hard um to adjust in a very in a are hard um to adjust in a very in a very precise way it's also hard to know very precise way it's also hard to know very precise way it's also hard to know in real time what's going on because you in real time what's going on because you in real time what's going on because you adjust a dosage and it takes two or adjust a dosage and it takes two or adjust a dosage and it takes two or three days or more for the the changes three days or more for the the changes three days or more for the the changes to occur with transcranial magnetic to occur with transcranial magnetic to occur with transcranial magnetic stimulation you can know instantly you stimulation you can know instantly you stimulation you can know instantly you know and um so I'm very excited about know and um so I'm very excited about know and um so I'm very excited about this also the that the polarity of the this also the that the polarity of the this also the that the polarity of the stimulation can be switched from stimulation can be switched from stimulation can be switched from activation to inhibition you know you
1:39activation to inhibition you know you activation to inhibition you know you always love that double dissociation in always love that double dissociation in always love that double dissociation in any experiment activate this brain area any experiment activate this brain area any experiment activate this brain area get effect get effect get effect X deactivate the area get the exact X deactivate the area get the exact X deactivate the area get the exact opposite effect right somebody feels opposite effect right somebody feels opposite effect right somebody feels worse when you deactivate it they feel worse when you deactivate it they feel worse when you deactivate it they feel better when you activate it as compared better when you activate it as compared better when you activate it as compared to Baseline great you now have pretty to Baseline great you now have pretty to Baseline great you now have pretty clear understanding what this brain area clear understanding what this brain area clear understanding what this brain area is involved in probably involved in is involved in probably involved in is involved in probably involved in other things but at least that awesome other things but at least that awesome other things but at least that awesome and that's that's not far off and it's and that's that's not far off and it's and that's that's not far off and it's happening in in Labs now it's it's super happening in in Labs now it's it's super happening in in Labs now it's it's super exciting and fascinating um I want to exciting and fascinating um I want to exciting and fascinating um I want to like talk kind of shift gears for a like talk kind of shift gears for a like talk kind of shift gears for a minute and talk about you know like I I minute and talk about you know like I I minute and talk about you know like I I didn't get a good sleep I don't know for didn't get a good sleep I don't know for didn't get a good sleep I don't know for a couple nights in a row and I you know a couple nights in a row and I you know a couple nights in a row and I you know have deadlines and things to work on I have deadlines and things to work on I have deadlines and things to work on I was feeling very amotivated as you like was feeling very amotivated as you like was feeling very amotivated as you like to to say and so I was you know of to to say and so I was you know of to to say and so I was you know of course deep in some of your stuff and um course deep in some of your stuff and um course deep in some of your stuff and um came across this nonsleep deep rest and came across this nonsleep deep rest and came across this nonsleep deep rest and I had never heard of it I mean I'm sure I had never heard of it I mean I'm sure I had never heard of it I mean I'm sure it you know become popular since you've it you know become popular since you've it you know become popular since you've talked about it but I would love for you talked about it but I would love for you talked about it but I would love for you to talk about the nonsleep Deep bre nsdr
1:40to talk about the nonsleep Deep bre nsdr to talk about the nonsleep Deep bre nsdr and you know so sleep is important for and you know so sleep is important for and you know so sleep is important for replenishing dopamine and I didn't I replenishing dopamine and I didn't I replenishing dopamine and I didn't I didn't get that replenishment of didn't get that replenishment of didn't get that replenishment of dopamine and so um some tools that dopamine and so um some tools that dopamine and so um some tools that people can do again we're talking about people can do again we're talking about people can do again we're talking about behavioral tools that we've just behavioral tools that we've just behavioral tools that we've just mentioned a few but um this this non mentioned a few but um this this non mentioned a few but um this this non this non-sleep deep breast is this non-sleep deep breast is this non-sleep deep breast is interesting to me and how it can help interesting to me and how it can help interesting to me and how it can help rep replenish the Baseline pools yeah so rep replenish the Baseline pools yeah so rep replenish the Baseline pools yeah so um I first thought about and learned um I first thought about and learned um I first thought about and learned about something called Yoga Nidra Yoga about something called Yoga Nidra Yoga about something called Yoga Nidra Yoga Nidra means yoga sleep there's a Nidra means yoga sleep there's a Nidra means yoga sleep there's a thousand year old or more um protocol thousand year old or more um protocol thousand year old or more um protocol where you lie down and you try to stay where you lie down and you try to stay where you lie down and you try to stay awake while remaining completely still awake while remaining completely still awake while remaining completely still it involves some long exhale breathing it involves some long exhale breathing it involves some long exhale breathing which we know slows the heart rate which we know slows the heart rate which we know slows the heart rate through respiratory sinus arhythmia through respiratory sinus arhythmia through respiratory sinus arhythmia which is a good thing it slows the heart which is a good thing it slows the heart which is a good thing it slows the heart rate and it is it had long been used as rate and it is it had long been used as rate and it is it had long been used as a way to offset sleep loss as well as to a way to offset sleep loss as well as to a way to offset sleep loss as well as to just create states of replenished mental just create states of replenished mental just create states of replenished mental and physical Vigor even if you slept and physical Vigor even if you slept and physical Vigor even if you slept well and there were a bunch of theories
1:41well and there were a bunch of theories well and there were a bunch of theories and some actually interesting writings and some actually interesting writings and some actually interesting writings about Yoga Nidra potentially allowing about Yoga Nidra potentially allowing about Yoga Nidra potentially allowing people to um tap into intentions and people to um tap into intentions and people to um tap into intentions and things like that okay great I learned things like that okay great I learned things like that okay great I learned about this process by the way I went and about this process by the way I went and about this process by the way I went and somewhere around 2015 2016 and I decided somewhere around 2015 2016 and I decided somewhere around 2015 2016 and I decided to shift a significant portion of my lab to shift a significant portion of my lab to shift a significant portion of my lab from animal studies to human studies and from animal studies to human studies and from animal studies to human studies and I was very interested in stress m ation I was very interested in stress m ation I was very interested in stress m ation and Trauma so I went visit a trauma and Trauma so I went visit a trauma and Trauma so I went visit a trauma Treatment Center in Florida where they Treatment Center in Florida where they Treatment Center in Florida where they were doing Yoga Nidra with people every were doing Yoga Nidra with people every were doing Yoga Nidra with people every morning for an hour they would wake up morning for an hour they would wake up morning for an hour they would wake up they would do this yoga NRA for an hour they would do this yoga NRA for an hour they would do this yoga NRA for an hour I decided to participate once or twice I decided to participate once or twice I decided to participate once or twice and I found it to be incredibly and I found it to be incredibly and I found it to be incredibly restorative because I wasn't sleeping restorative because I wasn't sleeping restorative because I wasn't sleeping well on that trip and I would come out well on that trip and I would come out well on that trip and I would come out of it thinking like I just felt like I of it thinking like I just felt like I of it thinking like I just felt like I slept eight hours I only slept four or slept eight hours I only slept four or slept eight hours I only slept four or five broken hours I do this one hour of five broken hours I do this one hour of five broken hours I do this one hour of Yoga Nidra and whoa feel amazing like Yoga Nidra and whoa feel amazing like Yoga Nidra and whoa feel amazing like this is wild this is a big effect what this is wild this is a big effect what this is wild this is a big effect what is this go back to my laboratory we're is this go back to my laboratory we're is this go back to my laboratory we're studying stress stress mitigation studying stress stress mitigation studying stress stress mitigation techniques techniques techniques and for whatever reason you know I and for whatever reason you know I and for whatever reason you know I decided okay can talk about Yoga Nidra
1:42decided okay can talk about Yoga Nidra decided okay can talk about Yoga Nidra but it's a little bit like talking about but it's a little bit like talking about but it's a little bit like talking about meditation and then you have these name meditation and then you have these name meditation and then you have these name which is you know a little complicated which is you know a little complicated which is you know a little complicated for the scientific literature because for the scientific literature because for the scientific literature because it's not clear exactly what it is and I it's not clear exactly what it is and I it's not clear exactly what it is and I want to be very clear I'm not trying to want to be very clear I'm not trying to want to be very clear I'm not trying to take anything away from Yoga Nidra or take anything away from Yoga Nidra or take anything away from Yoga Nidra or those practices I have tremendous those practices I have tremendous those practices I have tremendous respect for them but I came up with this respect for them but I came up with this respect for them but I came up with this thing called non-sleep deep rest or nsdr thing called non-sleep deep rest or nsdr thing called non-sleep deep rest or nsdr for short which a gives people some for short which a gives people some for short which a gives people some sense of what they're doing sense of what they're doing sense of what they're doing and B strips away the intentions and any and B strips away the intentions and any and B strips away the intentions and any kind of mysticism whatsoever and it kind of mysticism whatsoever and it kind of mysticism whatsoever and it really just involves lying down for really just involves lying down for really just involves lying down for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes or an anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes or an anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes or an hour I hour I hour I suppose and people are doing long exhale suppose and people are doing long exhale suppose and people are doing long exhale breathing to slow their heart rate and breathing to slow their heart rate and breathing to slow their heart rate and calm down doing a sort of body scan of calm down doing a sort of body scan of calm down doing a sort of body scan of paying attention to different parts of paying attention to different parts of paying attention to different parts of their body trying to stay their body trying to stay their body trying to stay awake but if they fall asleep it's awake but if they fall asleep it's awake but if they fall asleep it's okay we observe that it creates very okay we observe that it creates very okay we observe that it creates very dramatic decreases in sympathetic dramatic decreases in sympathetic dramatic decreases in sympathetic autonomic arousal AKA alert autonomic arousal AKA alert autonomic arousal AKA alert and places the brain into and body into and places the brain into and body into and places the brain into and body into kind of a of a a shallow state of sleep kind of a of a a shallow state of sleep kind of a of a a shallow state of sleep not surprising but a state that is
1:43not surprising but a state that is not surprising but a state that is unusual and at least to my knowledge not unusual and at least to my knowledge not unusual and at least to my knowledge not observed in other meditative states that observed in other meditative states that observed in other meditative states that at least you know to my knowledge but to at least you know to my knowledge but to at least you know to my knowledge but to be fair we didn't do neuroimaging of be fair we didn't do neuroimaging of be fair we didn't do neuroimaging of this so we didn't have a lot of insight this so we didn't have a lot of insight this so we didn't have a lot of insight into it I started digging around in the into it I started digging around in the into it I started digging around in the literature and turns out there's a study literature and turns out there's a study literature and turns out there's a study out of a medical hospital in Denmark out of a medical hospital in Denmark out of a medical hospital in Denmark that had people doing Yoga Nidra for an that had people doing Yoga Nidra for an that had people doing Yoga Nidra for an hour so very similar protocol but an hour so very similar protocol but an hour so very similar protocol but an hour and using what's called pet hour and using what's called pet hour and using what's called pet positron emission tomography measuring positron emission tomography measuring positron emission tomography measuring the amount of dopamine in the reserve the amount of dopamine in the reserve the amount of dopamine in the reserve pool in a certain key area of the brain pool in a certain key area of the brain pool in a certain key area of the brain called the striatum which is involved in called the striatum which is involved in called the striatum which is involved in the generation of movement it's also the generation of movement it's also the generation of movement it's also part of the reward and motivation part of the reward and motivation part of the reward and motivation pathway although you know there a bunch pathway although you know there a bunch pathway although you know there a bunch of different Pathways for dopamine so I of different Pathways for dopamine so I of different Pathways for dopamine so I want to be clear about that we talked want to be clear about that we talked want to be clear about that we talked about that earlier so what they observed about that earlier so what they observed about that earlier so what they observed was really interesting they observed at was really interesting they observed at was really interesting they observed at least by Patron emission least by Patron emission least by Patron emission tomography that people who did this hour tomography that people who did this hour tomography that people who did this hour Yoga Nidra protocol experienced a 60% Yoga Nidra protocol experienced a 60% Yoga Nidra protocol experienced a 60% above Baseline increase in dopamine in above Baseline increase in dopamine in above Baseline increase in dopamine in these key brain areas just from this
1:44these key brain areas just from this these key brain areas just from this hour of lying there completely still hour of lying there completely still hour of lying there completely still trying to stay awake listening to this trying to stay awake listening to this trying to stay awake listening to this script relaxation I think like this is script relaxation I think like this is script relaxation I think like this is wild and then there's some other studies wild and then there's some other studies wild and then there's some other studies showing that post yoganidra performance showing that post yoganidra performance showing that post yoganidra performance on memory tasks or other cognitive tasks on memory tasks or other cognitive tasks on memory tasks or other cognitive tasks is improved I got very excited about is improved I got very excited about is improved I got very excited about this and started whittling down the this and started whittling down the this and started whittling down the non-sleep Deep breast product call to non-sleep Deep breast product call to non-sleep Deep breast product call to what we hope is the minimal effective what we hope is the minimal effective what we hope is the minimal effective dose which is about 10 minutes of dose which is about 10 minutes of dose which is about 10 minutes of non-sleep deep rest um we've done some non-sleep deep rest um we've done some non-sleep deep rest um we've done some exploration of that in my lab currently exploration of that in my lab currently exploration of that in my lab currently there is a collaboration Brewing between there is a collaboration Brewing between there is a collaboration Brewing between myself and Dr Matthew Walker the author myself and Dr Matthew Walker the author myself and Dr Matthew Walker the author of why we sleep the great sleep of why we sleep the great sleep of why we sleep the great sleep researcher the great Matt Walker to researcher the great Matt Walker to researcher the great Matt Walker to explore what is happening at a neural explore what is happening at a neural explore what is happening at a neural level using brain Imaging during level using brain Imaging during level using brain Imaging during non-sleep Dee rest Matt has some my non-sleep Dee rest Matt has some my non-sleep Dee rest Matt has some my understanding is some insight or understanding is some insight or understanding is some insight or hypotheses I don't know you know what hypotheses I don't know you know what hypotheses I don't know you know what exactly um is based on so I want to be exactly um is based on so I want to be exactly um is based on so I want to be very clear this is all very very
1:45very clear this is all very very very clear this is all very very preliminary that certain pockets of the preliminary that certain pockets of the preliminary that certain pockets of the brain might be able to go undergo brain might be able to go undergo brain might be able to go undergo sleep-like States in things like nsdr sleep-like States in things like nsdr sleep-like States in things like nsdr Yoga Nidra that is not whole brain Yoga Nidra that is not whole brain Yoga Nidra that is not whole brain sleeping um but it might be pockets of sleeping um but it might be pockets of sleeping um but it might be pockets of brain areas um going to sleep-like brain areas um going to sleep-like brain areas um going to sleep-like States H but the whole purpose of doing States H but the whole purpose of doing States H but the whole purpose of doing these experiments going forward this these experiments going forward this these experiments going forward this collaboration is to figure out exactly collaboration is to figure out exactly collaboration is to figure out exactly what's happening at a neural level what's happening at a neural level what's happening at a neural level during non-sleep deep rest and how during non-sleep deep rest and how during non-sleep deep rest and how closely it mimics sleep can you recover closely it mimics sleep can you recover closely it mimics sleep can you recover sleep that you lost we don't know here's sleep that you lost we don't know here's sleep that you lost we don't know here's what we do know subjectively and again what we do know subjectively and again what we do know subjectively and again this is anic data if you will these are this is anic data if you will these are this is anic data if you will these are people who have challenges falling people who have challenges falling people who have challenges falling asleep often benefit from doing asleep often benefit from doing asleep often benefit from doing non-sleep deep rest a 10-minute or 20- non-sleep deep rest a 10-minute or 20- non-sleep deep rest a 10-minute or 20- minute protocol at any time of day or minute protocol at any time of day or minute protocol at any time of day or night because it's teaching you to night because it's teaching you to night because it's teaching you to self-direct your own self-direct your own self-direct your own relaxation it's different than relaxation it's different than relaxation it's different than meditation because meditation involves meditation because meditation involves meditation because meditation involves focusing meditation is really a focusing focusing meditation is really a focusing focusing meditation is really a focusing perceptual exercise think about your perceptual exercise think about your perceptual exercise think about your third eye center focus on your breath third eye center focus on your breath third eye center focus on your breath redirect your focus every time it drifts redirect your focus every time it drifts redirect your focus every time it drifts meditation is a focus exercise and work meditation is a focus exercise and work meditation is a focus exercise and work from Wendy Suzuki's Lab at NYU has shown
1:46from Wendy Suzuki's Lab at NYU has shown from Wendy Suzuki's Lab at NYU has shown that it can improve performance in that it can improve performance in that it can improve performance in different cognitive tasks but the different cognitive tasks but the different cognitive tasks but the traditional forms of meditation traditional forms of meditation traditional forms of meditation sometimes can disrupt people's ability sometimes can disrupt people's ability sometimes can disrupt people's ability to sleep well why well you're increasing to sleep well why well you're increasing to sleep well why well you're increasing Focus capacity to fall asleep you need Focus capacity to fall asleep you need Focus capacity to fall asleep you need to kind of defocus and let go of your to kind of defocus and let go of your to kind of defocus and let go of your thoughts it's kind of interesting at the thoughts it's kind of interesting at the thoughts it's kind of interesting at the beginning of all yoga NRA scripts at beginning of all yoga NRA scripts at beginning of all yoga NRA scripts at least the ones I've heard you hear um least the ones I've heard you hear um least the ones I've heard you hear um you're going to move from thinking and you're going to move from thinking and you're going to move from thinking and doing to being and feeling very new Agy doing to being and feeling very new Agy doing to being and feeling very new Agy language but let's explore that thinking language but let's explore that thinking language but let's explore that thinking and doing is about anticipation it's and doing is about anticipation it's and doing is about anticipation it's about memory to feeling and being you're about memory to feeling and being you're about memory to feeling and being you're going into as much as possible a purely going into as much as possible a purely going into as much as possible a purely sensory state right you're focusing on sensory state right you're focusing on sensory state right you're focusing on just how things feel you're not thinking just how things feel you're not thinking just how things feel you're not thinking into the Future Past you're just into the Future Past you're just into the Future Past you're just thinking future or past you're just thinking future or past you're just thinking future or past you're just feeling sensation in your body very feeling sensation in your body very feeling sensation in your body very interesting and we so different than interesting and we so different than interesting and we so different than than meditation different than hypnosis than meditation different than hypnosis than meditation different than hypnosis hypnosis is a sort of meditation hypnosis is a sort of meditation hypnosis is a sort of meditation designed to solve a specific problem designed to solve a specific problem designed to solve a specific problem quit smoking relax less pain okay quit smoking relax less pain okay quit smoking relax less pain okay meditation more of a focus exercise meditation more of a focus exercise meditation more of a focus exercise non-sleep deep rest is used to restore
1:47non-sleep deep rest is used to restore non-sleep deep rest is used to restore mental and physical Vigor and to teach mental and physical Vigor and to teach mental and physical Vigor and to teach you to relax yourself so it can be done you to relax yourself so it can be done you to relax yourself so it can be done in the middle of the night if you're in the middle of the night if you're in the middle of the night if you're having trouble sleeping it can be done having trouble sleeping it can be done having trouble sleeping it can be done in the morning this is when I typically in the morning this is when I typically in the morning this is when I typically like to do it I did it this morning I like to do it I did it this morning I like to do it I did it this morning I woke up at 5: that's a little early for woke up at 5: that's a little early for woke up at 5: that's a little early for me actually had a phone call uh for me actually had a phone call uh for me actually had a phone call uh for about an hour and then I realized oh about an hour and then I realized oh about an hour and then I realized oh goodness I got to get up soon I'm going goodness I got to get up soon I'm going goodness I got to get up soon I'm going to take 30 minutes and do a 30 minute to take 30 minutes and do a 30 minute to take 30 minutes and do a 30 minute non-sleep deep rest or in this case it non-sleep deep rest or in this case it non-sleep deep rest or in this case it was y anidra I come out of that and I was y anidra I come out of that and I was y anidra I come out of that and I recall fa being in a pseudo sleep State recall fa being in a pseudo sleep State recall fa being in a pseudo sleep State and I personally just feel as if I've and I personally just feel as if I've and I personally just feel as if I've slept 8 hours and many people report the slept 8 hours and many people report the slept 8 hours and many people report the similar sensation and again it's similar sensation and again it's similar sensation and again it's subjective but I think if ever there was subjective but I think if ever there was subjective but I think if ever there was a protocol that is useful for people to a protocol that is useful for people to a protocol that is useful for people to explore given that it's safe at zero explore given that it's safe at zero explore given that it's safe at zero cost and that sleep is so important and cost and that sleep is so important and cost and that sleep is so important and mental and physical Vigor are so mental and physical Vigor are so mental and physical Vigor are so important and the date on dopamine it's important and the date on dopamine it's important and the date on dopamine it's a 10 to 20 minute yoga Nedra or nsdr a 10 to 20 minute yoga Nedra or nsdr a 10 to 20 minute yoga Nedra or nsdr script we've put a few of those out script we've put a few of those out script we've put a few of those out there on YouTube and there are a lot of there on YouTube and there are a lot of there on YouTube and there are a lot of them um out there I really like if I them um out there I really like if I them um out there I really like if I want a female voice I'll listen to the want a female voice I'll listen to the want a female voice I'll listen to the ones by Common Desai DS AI or Kelly boy
1:48ones by Common Desai DS AI or Kelly boy ones by Common Desai DS AI or Kelly boy Bo y she's on the waking up app she has Bo y she's on the waking up app she has Bo y she's on the waking up app she has terrific terrific terrific nsdr um scripts and yoga ner scripts and nsdr um scripts and yoga ner scripts and nsdr um scripts and yoga ner scripts and then there's some with my voice um I then there's some with my voice um I then there's some with my voice um I can't bear to hear the sound of my own can't bear to hear the sound of my own can't bear to hear the sound of my own voice believe it or not um so we have a voice believe it or not um so we have a voice believe it or not um so we have a 10-minute and 20 minute one at our Clips 10-minute and 20 minute one at our Clips 10-minute and 20 minute one at our Clips Channel and there are a bunch of you um Channel and there are a bunch of you um Channel and there are a bunch of you um Spotify scripts and you can find them Spotify scripts and you can find them Spotify scripts and you can find them out there but out there but out there but to me it's one of the more interesting to me it's one of the more interesting to me it's one of the more interesting aspects of protocols meaning you know we aspects of protocols meaning you know we aspects of protocols meaning you know we have exercise protocols we have have exercise protocols we have have exercise protocols we have nutrition protocols we've got deliberate nutrition protocols we've got deliberate nutrition protocols we've got deliberate heat exposure deliberate cold exposure heat exposure deliberate cold exposure heat exposure deliberate cold exposure protocols what about protocols for protocols what about protocols for protocols what about protocols for restoring mental and physical Vigor that restoring mental and physical Vigor that restoring mental and physical Vigor that aren't meditation that aren't hypnosis aren't meditation that aren't hypnosis aren't meditation that aren't hypnosis that aren't pharmacology and what does that aren't pharmacology and what does that aren't pharmacology and what does that look like it's taking the brain out that look like it's taking the brain out that look like it's taking the brain out of that anticipatory mode so if we of that anticipatory mode so if we of that anticipatory mode so if we speculate go okay move from thinking and speculate go okay move from thinking and speculate go okay move from thinking and doing to being and feeling again very doing to being and feeling again very doing to being and feeling again very new Agy but what are we doing we're new Agy but what are we doing we're new Agy but what are we doing we're deliberately shifting our thinking away deliberately shifting our thinking away deliberately shifting our thinking away from the very types of thought and from the very types of thought and from the very types of thought and action that deplete the dopamine Reserve
1:49action that deplete the dopamine Reserve action that deplete the dopamine Reserve pool right and should we be surprised pool right and should we be surprised pool right and should we be surprised that there's this significant increase that there's this significant increase that there's this significant increase in dopamine and the striatum post Yoga in dopamine and the striatum post Yoga in dopamine and the striatum post Yoga Nidra or nsdr probably not because Nidra or nsdr probably not because Nidra or nsdr probably not because you're not tapping into that neural you're not tapping into that neural you're not tapping into that neural circuitry for a period of time it also circuitry for a period of time it also circuitry for a period of time it also underscores the extent to which in our underscores the extent to which in our underscores the extent to which in our Waking Life we are constantly in Gold Waking Life we are constantly in Gold Waking Life we are constantly in Gold directed Behavior even when we don't directed Behavior even when we don't directed Behavior even when we don't realize it realize it realize it and so um I find nsdr to be among the and so um I find nsdr to be among the and so um I find nsdr to be among the most potent and important tools or most potent and important tools or most potent and important tools or protocols that I've used in my own life protocols that I've used in my own life protocols that I've used in my own life I've continued to do it about once a day I've continued to do it about once a day I've continued to do it about once a day um any time of day or night sometimes um any time of day or night sometimes um any time of day or night sometimes based on need to get more sleep based on need to get more sleep based on need to get more sleep sometimes just as a practice and even 10 sometimes just as a practice and even 10 sometimes just as a practice and even 10 minutes of nsdr for me I emerg from that minutes of nsdr for me I emerg from that minutes of nsdr for me I emerg from that feeling completely different and always feeling completely different and always feeling completely different and always better I did your your 10 minute one of better I did your your 10 minute one of better I did your your 10 minute one of your 10minute sdrs the other day impact your 10minute sdrs the other day impact your 10minute sdrs the other day impact you um it made me feel better and I did you um it made me feel better and I did you um it made me feel better and I did it like I said I hadn't got sleep in in it like I said I hadn't got sleep in in it like I said I hadn't got sleep in in the last two nights and good sleep it the last two nights and good sleep it the last two nights and good sleep it was like my my sleep was disrupted and was like my my sleep was disrupted and was like my my sleep was disrupted and um and so I I I stopped and I did did
1:50um and so I I I stopped and I did did um and so I I I stopped and I did did your protocol and listening to your your protocol and listening to your your protocol and listening to your voice was very soothing and um it also voice was very soothing and um it also voice was very soothing and um it also helped me like I was able to shift right helped me like I was able to shift right helped me like I was able to shift right back into my work and I don't know if back into my work and I don't know if back into my work and I don't know if it's because I was understanding I was it's because I was understanding I was it's because I was understanding I was trying to read you know how how it's trying to read you know how how it's trying to read you know how how it's affecting dopamine replenishing dopamine affecting dopamine replenishing dopamine affecting dopamine replenishing dopamine and so I sort of believed myself into it and so I sort of believed myself into it and so I sort of believed myself into it or if it just actually worked right I or if it just actually worked right I or if it just actually worked right I mean so I hope so it's also not a nap mean so I hope so it's also not a nap mean so I hope so it's also not a nap well I'm glad you had a good experience well I'm glad you had a good experience well I'm glad you had a good experience with it if people don't of course with it if people don't of course with it if people don't of course there's no obligation to do it again there's no obligation to do it again there's no obligation to do it again it's um it's different than a nap it's um it's different than a nap it's um it's different than a nap because it does not create sleep inertia because it does not create sleep inertia because it does not create sleep inertia um Matt Walker's talked about the fact um Matt Walker's talked about the fact um Matt Walker's talked about the fact that not everyone needs to nap but a nap that not everyone needs to nap but a nap that not everyone needs to nap but a nap can improve cognitive performance if can improve cognitive performance if can improve cognitive performance if you're going to nap don't nap too late you're going to nap don't nap too late you're going to nap don't nap too late in the day or certainly not if it's in the day or certainly not if it's in the day or certainly not if it's going to disrupt your nighttime sleep a going to disrupt your nighttime sleep a going to disrupt your nighttime sleep a 20 minute nap seems to be the limit 20 minute nap seems to be the limit 20 minute nap seems to be the limit Beyond which it can increase sleep Beyond which it can increase sleep Beyond which it can increase sleep inertia you can wake up feeling groggy inertia you can wake up feeling groggy inertia you can wake up feeling groggy have trouble waking up and then people have trouble waking up and then people have trouble waking up and then people then will use caffeine and then it just then will use caffeine and then it just then will use caffeine and then it just drops their sleep I like a 20- minute to drops their sleep I like a 20- minute to drops their sleep I like a 20- minute to 30 minute nap I'm guilty of sometimes 30 minute nap I'm guilty of sometimes 30 minute nap I'm guilty of sometimes taking a 30- minute nap but yoganidra is
1:51taking a 30- minute nap but yoganidra is taking a 30- minute nap but yoganidra is being awake while deeply relaxed and being awake while deeply relaxed and being awake while deeply relaxed and that's a very unusual State I also want that's a very unusual State I also want that's a very unusual State I also want to just speculate a little bit further to just speculate a little bit further to just speculate a little bit further um there's some interesting ideas out um there's some interesting ideas out um there's some interesting ideas out there about how body still mind active there about how body still mind active there about how body still mind active States can be very useful for cre States can be very useful for cre States can be very useful for cre creativity um keep we had a couple of creativity um keep we had a couple of creativity um keep we had a couple of guests on the podcast including Carl guests on the podcast including Carl guests on the podcast including Carl diero he has a practice believe it or diero he has a practice believe it or diero he has a practice believe it or not where he sits completely still not where he sits completely still not where he sits completely still deliberately completely still and forces deliberately completely still and forces deliberately completely still and forces himself to think in complete sentences himself to think in complete sentences himself to think in complete sentences for about an hour at night as a way to for about an hour at night as a way to for about an hour at night as a way to sort of practice um thinking um very sort of practice um thinking um very sort of practice um thinking um very interesting body still mind active then interesting body still mind active then interesting body still mind active then Rick Rubin when he was on the podcast Rick Rubin when he was on the podcast Rick Rubin when he was on the podcast not a scientist but um and we we I'm not a scientist but um and we we I'm not a scientist but um and we we I'm fortunate to be friends with Rick he fortunate to be friends with Rick he fortunate to be friends with Rick he does something does something does something similar um what is a part of life where similar um what is a part of life where similar um what is a part of life where the brain is very active the body is the brain is very active the body is the brain is very active the body is completely still and is known to be completely still and is known to be completely still and is known to be associated with ideas learning and associated with ideas learning and associated with ideas learning and creativity rapid eye movement sleep so
1:52creativity rapid eye movement sleep so creativity rapid eye movement sleep so there's something about the body being there's something about the body being there's something about the body being still and the mind remaining active that still and the mind remaining active that still and the mind remaining active that may lend itself to certain types of may lend itself to certain types of may lend itself to certain types of cognitive effort or cognitive Endeavors cognitive effort or cognitive Endeavors cognitive effort or cognitive Endeavors I don't know this hasn't really been I don't know this hasn't really been I don't know this hasn't really been explored using neuroimaging um but I'm explored using neuroimaging um but I'm explored using neuroimaging um but I'm excited about this as a as a potential excited about this as a as a potential excited about this as a as a potential tool and non-sleep deep rest In Yoga tool and non-sleep deep rest In Yoga tool and non-sleep deep rest In Yoga Nidra again the writing about it tends Nidra again the writing about it tends Nidra again the writing about it tends to be from these more ancient tradition to be from these more ancient tradition to be from these more ancient tradition um but starts off talking about um but starts off talking about um but starts off talking about replenishment of sleep learning how to replenishment of sleep learning how to replenishment of sleep learning how to relax Etc but remember they were doing relax Etc but remember they were doing relax Etc but remember they were doing this at a trauma treatment clinic and I this at a trauma treatment clinic and I this at a trauma treatment clinic and I asked them why you know is it to just asked them why you know is it to just asked them why you know is it to just calm everybody down make sure they get calm everybody down make sure they get calm everybody down make sure they get enough sleep and they said no we're enough sleep and they said no we're enough sleep and they said no we're doing so much work here trying to get doing so much work here trying to get doing so much work here trying to get people to remap their relationship to people to remap their relationship to people to remap their relationship to traumas and and they were really ahead traumas and and they were really ahead traumas and and they were really ahead of their time in understanding that the of their time in understanding that the of their time in understanding that the actual rewiring of neural circuits actual rewiring of neural circuits actual rewiring of neural circuits occurs during sleep so they want to occurs during sleep so they want to occurs during sleep so they want to maximize the amount of deep rest that maximize the amount of deep rest that maximize the amount of deep rest that people were getting to maximize the people were getting to maximize the people were getting to maximize the rewiring but also that in these states rewiring but also that in these states rewiring but also that in these states of deep rest you also replenish the
1:53of deep rest you also replenish the of deep rest you also replenish the ability to lean into what really is the ability to lean into what really is the ability to lean into what really is the hard work of traum of trauma therapy hard work of traum of trauma therapy hard work of traum of trauma therapy it's not easy and does the brain rewire it's not easy and does the brain rewire it's not easy and does the brain rewire itself more readily if we're doing nsdr itself more readily if we're doing nsdr itself more readily if we're doing nsdr Yoga Nidra I don't know I suspect yes Yoga Nidra I don't know I suspect yes Yoga Nidra I don't know I suspect yes based on the similarity to sleep but based on the similarity to sleep but based on the similarity to sleep but that's one of the things that Matt and I that's one of the things that Matt and I that's one of the things that Matt and I would like to explore can it replace would like to explore can it replace would like to explore can it replace sleep that one's lost can it enhance the sleep that one's lost can it enhance the sleep that one's lost can it enhance the speed of learning can it reinforce speed of learning can it reinforce speed of learning can it reinforce learning in the same day because there's learning in the same day because there's learning in the same day because there's this thing called the first night effect this thing called the first night effect this thing called the first night effect where the first night of sleep after where the first night of sleep after where the first night of sleep after about of learning is really critical for about of learning is really critical for about of learning is really critical for consolidating that learning but let's consolidating that learning but let's consolidating that learning but let's face it sometimes we don't get that face it sometimes we don't get that face it sometimes we don't get that night of sleep so can you wake up the night of sleep so can you wake up the night of sleep so can you wake up the next morning and do a 30 minute nsdr and next morning and do a 30 minute nsdr and next morning and do a 30 minute nsdr and consolidate learning sometimes that consolidate learning sometimes that consolidate learning sometimes that learning is new information sometimes learning is new information sometimes learning is new information sometimes that learning is The Dumping of that learning is The Dumping of that learning is The Dumping of information you don't want right this is information you don't want right this is information you don't want right this is why people who are rapid eye movement why people who are rapid eye movement why people who are rapid eye movement sleep deprived often carry forward a lot sleep deprived often carry forward a lot sleep deprived often carry forward a lot of emotionality that frankly they would of emotionality that frankly they would of emotionality that frankly they would like like to unload then you get a great like like to unload then you get a great like like to unload then you get a great night's sleep and you're like that thing night's sleep and you're like that thing night's sleep and you're like that thing that was bothering me that's like that was bothering me that's like that was bothering me that's like nothing now right so rap and eye nothing now right so rap and eye nothing now right so rap and eye movement sleep is is incredibly movement sleep is is incredibly movement sleep is is incredibly important and Yoga Nidra AKA um nsdr I
1:54important and Yoga Nidra AKA um nsdr I important and Yoga Nidra AKA um nsdr I should say nsdr is a buildout from Yoga should say nsdr is a buildout from Yoga should say nsdr is a buildout from Yoga Nidra In fairness Nidra In fairness Nidra In fairness um I think is a super powerful technique um I think is a super powerful technique um I think is a super powerful technique and you know 10 minutes is pretty minor and you know 10 minutes is pretty minor and you know 10 minutes is pretty minor you know investment awesome um so we've you know investment awesome um so we've you know investment awesome um so we've been talking a lot about things that are been talking a lot about things that are been talking a lot about things that are uh positive behaviors to engage in to uh positive behaviors to engage in to uh positive behaviors to engage in to you know improve or motivation our you you know improve or motivation our you you know improve or motivation our you know Focus attention dopamine system um know Focus attention dopamine system um know Focus attention dopamine system um replenishing the Baseline there's also replenishing the Baseline there's also replenishing the Baseline there's also behaviors to avoid as we kind of we're behaviors to avoid as we kind of we're behaviors to avoid as we kind of we're touch touching on a little bit and uh touch touching on a little bit and uh touch touching on a little bit and uh you know probably one of the biggest you know probably one of the biggest you know probably one of the biggest elephants in the room here would be the elephants in the room here would be the elephants in the room here would be the technology our our smart devices or technology our our smart devices or technology our our smart devices or smart phones you mentioned the brain smart phones you mentioned the brain smart phones you mentioned the brain loves visual information and you know loves visual information and you know loves visual information and you know also the fact that we're addicted to also the fact that we're addicted to also the fact that we're addicted to getting you know looking at our likes getting you know looking at our likes getting you know looking at our likes and when we get a lot of likes I mean we and when we get a lot of likes I mean we and when we get a lot of likes I mean we get a dopamine Peak and it's it's you get a dopamine Peak and it's it's you get a dopamine Peak and it's it's you know we we it's rewarding right and so know we we it's rewarding right and so know we we it's rewarding right and so hugely rewarding and sets the um hugely rewarding and sets the um hugely rewarding and sets the um expectation for the next next time right expectation for the next next time right expectation for the next next time right you know and the algorithms are very you know and the algorithms are very you know and the algorithms are very clever right every once in a while and
1:55clever right every once in a while and clever right every once in a while and you know a new account comes up I know you know a new account comes up I know you know a new account comes up I know someone who recently started posting and someone who recently started posting and someone who recently started posting and you know and posts get some feedback you know and posts get some feedback you know and posts get some feedback post gets some and then boom something post gets some and then boom something post gets some and then boom something takes off gets a million and a half takes off gets a million and a half takes off gets a million and a half views that that will change their views that that will change their views that that will change their relationship to social media maybe relationship to social media maybe relationship to social media maybe forever you're just chasing that thing forever you're just chasing that thing forever you're just chasing that thing and uh it's very clever it's very clever and uh it's very clever it's very clever and uh it's very clever it's very clever not always diabolical but but very not always diabolical but but very not always diabolical but but very clever yeah so I mean what is that clever yeah so I mean what is that clever yeah so I mean what is that there's a couple of questions one is you there's a couple of questions one is you there's a couple of questions one is you know like what is that doing for our know like what is that doing for our know like what is that doing for our ability to live in like everyday life ability to live in like everyday life ability to live in like everyday life that isn't like that right first of all that isn't like that right first of all that isn't like that right first of all the visual visual information isn't the visual visual information isn't the visual visual information isn't there it's not as you know moving there it's not as you know moving there it's not as you know moving rapidly and all all that things and also rapidly and all all that things and also rapidly and all all that things and also um you don't get that huge Peak from a um you don't get that huge Peak from a um you don't get that huge Peak from a million and a half VI I mean like million and a half VI I mean like million and a half VI I mean like everyday life isn't usually like that everyday life isn't usually like that everyday life isn't usually like that and then the second is how can someone and then the second is how can someone and then the second is how can someone have a more healthy habit like you I we have a more healthy habit like you I we have a more healthy habit like you I we have to use social media for our work have to use social media for our work have to use social media for our work and a lot of people are like that you and a lot of people are like that you and a lot of people are like that you know and so there's there's a like how
1:56know and so there's there's a like how know and so there's there's a like how what's the healthy balance how can you what's the healthy balance how can you what's the healthy balance how can you find it have you found it um have I find it have you found it um have I find it have you found it um have I found it um most of the time not all the found it um most of the time not all the found it um most of the time not all the time I think two things one is an time I think two things one is an time I think two things one is an observation one is a perhaps a observation one is a perhaps a observation one is a perhaps a suggestion um to everyone um the suggestion um to everyone um the suggestion um to everyone um the observation is that disengaging from observation is that disengaging from observation is that disengaging from social media takes time social media takes time social media takes time but it happens very readily every single but it happens very readily every single but it happens very readily every single time so for time so for time so for instance get off work you're still on instance get off work you're still on instance get off work you're still on your phone you're still on your phone your phone you're still on your phone your phone you're still on your phone you're with family still on your phone you're with family still on your phone you're with family still on your phone they're like hey want to engage you put they're like hey want to engage you put they're like hey want to engage you put it away expect some agitation expect it away expect some agitation expect it away expect some agitation expect like something's been taken away from like something's been taken away from like something's been taken away from you it's this kind of low-level malaise you it's this kind of low-level malaise you it's this kind of low-level malaise other things aren't as interesting I other things aren't as interesting I other things aren't as interesting I mean hopefully one's life is interesting mean hopefully one's life is interesting mean hopefully one's life is interesting and hopefully isn't just drawing us out and hopefully isn't just drawing us out and hopefully isn't just drawing us out out of like urgent demand but there it out of like urgent demand but there it out of like urgent demand but there it requires a little bit of time if you've requires a little bit of time if you've requires a little bit of time if you've ever ever gone camping or you don't have ever ever gone camping or you don't have ever ever gone camping or you don't have access to your phone in fact this coming access to your phone in fact this coming access to your phone in fact this coming weekend I'm going to take three days weekend I'm going to take three days weekend I'm going to take three days away from my phone and I'm sure getting
1:57away from my phone and I'm sure getting away from my phone and I'm sure getting back to the phone will feel a little bit back to the phone will feel a little bit back to the phone will feel a little bit oppressive it'll feel like a little bit oppressive it'll feel like a little bit oppressive it'll feel like a little bit oppressive but once the phone is away oppressive but once the phone is away oppressive but once the phone is away expect I don't know 20 minutes to an expect I don't know 20 minutes to an expect I don't know 20 minutes to an hour during which you don't feel quite hour during which you don't feel quite hour during which you don't feel quite right maybe even some underlying anxiety right maybe even some underlying anxiety right maybe even some underlying anxiety because it's that ant it's that because it's that ant it's that because it's that ant it's that unconscious anticipation so that's my unconscious anticipation so that's my unconscious anticipation so that's my obser so that's the observation the obser so that's the observation the obser so that's the observation the suggestion uh I have for people to have suggestion uh I have for people to have suggestion uh I have for people to have a healthy relationship with social media a healthy relationship with social media a healthy relationship with social media it's one actually that I learned from a it's one actually that I learned from a it's one actually that I learned from a professional poker player which is play professional poker player which is play professional poker player which is play for time don't you know if you're for time don't you know if you're for time don't you know if you're winning don't stay there right you're winning don't stay there right you're winning don't stay there right you're losing don't I mean I guess I don't want losing don't I mean I guess I don't want losing don't I mean I guess I don't want to suggest people gamble but this is all to suggest people gamble but this is all to suggest people gamble but this is all just translating to social media play just translating to social media play just translating to social media play for time designate how much time you're for time designate how much time you're for time designate how much time you're going to spend on there in a given bout going to spend on there in a given bout going to spend on there in a given bout you know so for me getting a post up you know so for me getting a post up you know so for me getting a post up once every day or so maybe four times a once every day or so maybe four times a once every day or so maybe four times a week is kind of the goal and I try and week is kind of the goal and I try and week is kind of the goal and I try and mix up the form of post and I have rules mix up the form of post and I have rules mix up the form of post and I have rules for myself most specifically I try and for myself most specifically I try and for myself most specifically I try and make sure that 90% of posts are so the
1:58make sure that 90% of posts are so the make sure that 90% of posts are so the audience can learn something useful audience can learn something useful audience can learn something useful hopefully also interesting um and hopefully also interesting um and hopefully also interesting um and actionable Etc 10% are kind of from my actionable Etc 10% are kind of from my actionable Etc 10% are kind of from my delight I can't help it or where I'm um delight I can't help it or where I'm um delight I can't help it or where I'm um curious about I'm kind of pinging the curious about I'm kind of pinging the curious about I'm kind of pinging the audience for their thoughts because I audience for their thoughts because I audience for their thoughts because I genuinely want to know like I was genuinely want to know like I was genuinely want to know like I was walking up the Upper East Side with my walking up the Upper East Side with my walking up the Upper East Side with my girlfriend a few weeks ago and saw this girlfriend a few weeks ago and saw this girlfriend a few weeks ago and saw this sign outside a store and and said um we sign outside a store and and said um we sign outside a store and and said um we have o OIC and monjaro and I took a have o OIC and monjaro and I took a have o OIC and monjaro and I took a picture of it and thought that's kind of picture of it and thought that's kind of picture of it and thought that's kind of weird it's normally you see like we have weird it's normally you see like we have weird it's normally you see like we have Lattes or something and I just kept Lattes or something and I just kept Lattes or something and I just kept walking then when I got back to walking then when I got back to walking then when I got back to California I posted that on social media California I posted that on social media California I posted that on social media I thought kind of curious what do people I thought kind of curious what do people I thought kind of curious what do people think of AIC and monjaro I know it's think of AIC and monjaro I know it's think of AIC and monjaro I know it's controversial I'll just ask people and controversial I'll just ask people and controversial I'll just ask people and it just it was tons of Engagement I it just it was tons of Engagement I it just it was tons of Engagement I didn't even expect it but I'm learning a didn't even expect it but I'm learning a didn't even expect it but I'm learning a lot from all those comments so I have lot from all those comments so I have lot from all those comments so I have rules but the main rule is I don't let rules but the main rule is I don't let rules but the main rule is I don't let myself or I try to not let myself pick myself or I try to not let myself pick myself or I try to not let myself pick up the phone in just any at any old time up the phone in just any at any old time up the phone in just any at any old time and go into social media I really try I and go into social media I really try I and go into social media I really try I don't always succeed but I really try don't always succeed but I really try don't always succeed but I really try and if I'm going to be on there I'm like and if I'm going to be on there I'm like
1:59and if I'm going to be on there I'm like okay I'm on here now for an hour or I okay I'm on here now for an hour or I okay I'm on here now for an hour or I give myself an hour that's the best give myself an hour that's the best give myself an hour that's the best thing I can do I also know that if I thing I can do I also know that if I thing I can do I also know that if I answer a few comments I'm kind of a answer a few comments I'm kind of a answer a few comments I'm kind of a runaway train when it comes to P people runaway train when it comes to P people runaway train when it comes to P people pinging me with questions about science pinging me with questions about science pinging me with questions about science I just it's very hard for me not to I just it's very hard for me not to I just it's very hard for me not to reply so I have to limit myself to you reply so I have to limit myself to you reply so I have to limit myself to you know 5 to 15 responses and I'm like and know 5 to 15 responses and I'm like and know 5 to 15 responses and I'm like and then I and then I actually feel some then I and then I actually feel some then I and then I actually feel some anxiety as I go to do my life activities anxiety as I go to do my life activities anxiety as I go to do my life activities I have to tell myself they'll be okay I have to tell myself they'll be okay I have to tell myself they'll be okay it's just it's just kind of like you ask it's just it's just kind of like you ask it's just it's just kind of like you ask a professor at least this professor a a professor at least this professor a a professor at least this professor a question about something if I know the question about something if I know the question about something if I know the answer like I'm going to try and tell answer like I'm going to try and tell answer like I'm going to try and tell you so there's always that agitation but you so there's always that agitation but you so there's always that agitation but um for me so expect that agitation when um for me so expect that agitation when um for me so expect that agitation when you set it away and play for time don't you set it away and play for time don't you set it away and play for time don't base it on any particular mode of base it on any particular mode of base it on any particular mode of Engagement or whether or not it feels Engagement or whether or not it feels Engagement or whether or not it feels good or doesn't feel good play for time good or doesn't feel good play for time good or doesn't feel good play for time so decide I'm be on here for 30 minutes so decide I'm be on here for 30 minutes so decide I'm be on here for 30 minutes and it's interesting because when I and it's interesting because when I and it's interesting because when I don't do that what I start to notice is don't do that what I start to notice is don't do that what I start to notice is I'm scrolling but I I don't even know I'm scrolling but I I don't even know I'm scrolling but I I don't even know what I'm doing like what am I doing here what I'm doing like what am I doing here what I'm doing like what am I doing here like what the hell am I doing here like like what the hell am I doing here like like what the hell am I doing here like I don't even know that I care about this I don't even know that I care about this I don't even know that I care about this like thing or that thing it's nice to like thing or that thing it's nice to like thing or that thing it's nice to see people in their events I love the
2:00see people in their events I love the see people in their events I love the baby pics and the you know the animal baby pics and the you know the animal baby pics and the you know the animal pics and um our friends in the podcast pics and um our friends in the podcast pics and um our friends in the podcast space it's always great to see and to space it's always great to see and to space it's always great to see and to learn I learn a lot from your post I learn I learn a lot from your post I learn I learn a lot from your post I genuinely do I learn a lot from lane genuinely do I learn a lot from lane genuinely do I learn a lot from lane lane Norton's post I genuinely do and lane Norton's post I genuinely do and lane Norton's post I genuinely do and and and I really enjoy the podcasters and and I really enjoy the podcasters and and I really enjoy the podcasters the public facing Health um folks but I the public facing Health um folks but I the public facing Health um folks but I know also and I remind myself that for know also and I remind myself that for know also and I remind myself that for me the real raw materials for the me the real raw materials for the me the real raw materials for the podcast unless it's a post from you to podcast unless it's a post from you to podcast unless it's a post from you to be honest I'm not I'm not just saying be honest I'm not I'm not just saying be honest I'm not I'm not just saying that the real raw materials tend to come that the real raw materials tend to come that the real raw materials tend to come from PubMed they come from books they from PubMed they come from books they from PubMed they come from books they come from papers that I'm reading come from papers that I'm reading come from papers that I'm reading thoughts that I'm going to have like thoughts that I'm going to have like thoughts that I'm going to have like conversations I'm going to have and so conversations I'm going to have and so conversations I'm going to have and so those are the raw materials for my work those are the raw materials for my work those are the raw materials for my work and that social media is more of a a and that social media is more of a a and that social media is more of a a mode of consumption and occasionally mode of consumption and occasionally mode of consumption and occasionally broadcast X and Twitter totally broadcast X and Twitter totally broadcast X and Twitter totally different picture because I now go on X different picture because I now go on X different picture because I now go on X and Twitter and I know they're going to and Twitter and I know they're going to and Twitter and I know they're going to try and get me through a um let's just try and get me through a um let's just try and get me through a um let's just call it a psychosocial Dynamic someone call it a psychosocial Dynamic someone call it a psychosocial Dynamic someone like you're you're on there to see how
2:01like you're you're on there to see how like you're you're on there to see how people are going to engage it's it is a people are going to engage it's it is a people are going to engage it's it is a little bit more combative it also can be little bit more combative it also can be little bit more combative it also can be really supportive because of the really supportive because of the really supportive because of the immediate retweet function you see immediate retweet function you see immediate retweet function you see something you like it you can get out to something you like it you can get out to something you like it you can get out to a lot of people you can link out to a lot of people you can link out to a lot of people you can link out to things but it's more of a um like the things but it's more of a um like the things but it's more of a um like the center of the Town Square where center of the Town Square where center of the Town Square where everybody's interacting and um so I have everybody's interacting and um so I have everybody's interacting and um so I have I have very clear I have very clear I have very clear um cognitive pictures of like Instagram um cognitive pictures of like Instagram um cognitive pictures of like Instagram feels pretty benevolent to me you know feels pretty benevolent to me you know feels pretty benevolent to me you know people have to generally show their face people have to generally show their face people have to generally show their face right X feels like okay do I really want right X feels like okay do I really want right X feels like okay do I really want to engage in this very intense Dynamic to engage in this very intense Dynamic to engage in this very intense Dynamic so I I go on X far less and I've had so I I go on X far less and I've had so I I go on X far less and I've had much more polarized responses to things much more polarized responses to things much more polarized responses to things that I've put up there I've had things that I've put up there I've had things that I've put up there I've had things clipped out of context I've had attacks clipped out of context I've had attacks clipped out of context I've had attacks and and I just don't enjoy being angry I and and I just don't enjoy being angry I and and I just don't enjoy being angry I don't enjoy feeling that friction it don't enjoy feeling that friction it don't enjoy feeling that friction it just sucks for me and I don't like just sucks for me and I don't like just sucks for me and I don't like seeing other people suffer so on X I see seeing other people suffer so on X I see seeing other people suffer so on X I see just a lot more of that and I've got just a lot more of that and I've got just a lot more of that and I've got nothing against it and I I think they've nothing against it and I I think they've nothing against it and I I think they've done great things with the platform but
2:02done great things with the platform but done great things with the platform but I just I have to just be really I just I have to just be really I just I have to just be really protective of myself to not go there protective of myself to not go there protective of myself to not go there terribly much is there like um like terribly much is there like um like terribly much is there like um like studies that have shown that there's a a studies that have shown that there's a a studies that have shown that there's a a maximum amount of time that like adults maximum amount of time that like adults maximum amount of time that like adults maybe children versus adults should maybe children versus adults should maybe children versus adults should spend like with their smart devices to spend like with their smart devices to spend like with their smart devices to you know for prevent these huge you know for prevent these huge you know for prevent these huge amplitude and Peaks and dopamine where amplitude and Peaks and dopamine where amplitude and Peaks and dopamine where they're just getting you know really they're just getting you know really they're just getting you know really rewarding things or even just like rewarding things or even just like rewarding things or even just like you're saying negative things that can you're saying negative things that can you're saying negative things that can be in a in a way it's very you know be in a in a way it's very you know be in a in a way it's very you know you're getting that like engagement and you're getting that like engagement and you're getting that like engagement and then you know it's the clapback you know then you know it's the clapback you know then you know it's the clapback you know if you get a good clapback on somebody I if you get a good clapback on somebody I if you get a good clapback on somebody I mean there there's a a neuroscientist up mean there there's a a neuroscientist up mean there there's a a neuroscientist up at University of Washington Sam golden at University of Washington Sam golden at University of Washington Sam golden who shown that you know animals will who shown that you know animals will who shown that you know animals will work for the opportunity to fight work for the opportunity to fight work for the opportunity to fight they'll work for it we never understood they'll work for it we never understood they'll work for it we never understood this until recently I mean you could say this until recently I mean you could say this until recently I mean you could say we always understood that but no like we always understood that but no like we always understood that but no like you know humans probably too that you you know humans probably too that you you know humans probably too that you know engaging in those kind of know engaging in those kind of know engaging in those kind of high-intensity ways can be rewarding for high-intensity ways can be rewarding for high-intensity ways can be rewarding for some folks even for people who don't some folks even for people who don't some folks even for people who don't like that unless they're really conflict like that unless they're really conflict like that unless they're really conflict diverse it has a certain level of AR
2:03diverse it has a certain level of AR diverse it has a certain level of AR like arousal itself can become rewarding like arousal itself can become rewarding like arousal itself can become rewarding right just the the engagement when I say right just the the engagement when I say right just the the engagement when I say arousal like the level of of cognitive arousal like the level of of cognitive arousal like the level of of cognitive engagement especially if the rest of engagement especially if the rest of engagement especially if the rest of life feels kind of passive and life feels kind of passive and life feels kind of passive and uninteresting um there have not been uninteresting um there have not been uninteresting um there have not been clear studies that I'm aware of but at clear studies that I'm aware of but at clear studies that I'm aware of but at the same time if I think of something the same time if I think of something the same time if I think of something like virtual reality like my colleague like virtual reality like my colleague like virtual reality like my colleague at Stanford Jeremy Balon has done he one at Stanford Jeremy Balon has done he one at Stanford Jeremy Balon has done he one of the early pioneers of virtual reality of the early pioneers of virtual reality of the early pioneers of virtual reality and as virtual reality came to be they and as virtual reality came to be they and as virtual reality came to be they established and I'll get the numbers established and I'll get the numbers established and I'll get the numbers wrong here so forgive me Jeremy have to wrong here so forgive me Jeremy have to wrong here so forgive me Jeremy have to look this up but you know limits of you look this up but you know limits of you look this up but you know limits of you know kids should only be in the VR know kids should only be in the VR know kids should only be in the VR goggles for X number of minutes per day goggles for X number of minutes per day goggles for X number of minutes per day and it was minutes otherwise there's and it was minutes otherwise there's and it was minutes otherwise there's rewiring of the visual system and rewiring of the visual system and rewiring of the visual system and vestibular system the balance system in vestibular system the balance system in vestibular system the balance system in ways that might not be healthy they had ways that might not be healthy they had ways that might not be healthy they had real clear limits and guidelines with real clear limits and guidelines with real clear limits and guidelines with social media was s of like as much as social media was s of like as much as social media was s of like as much as you want and then of course there's the you want and then of course there's the you want and then of course there's the intrusion of social media in and T use intrusion of social media in and T use intrusion of social media in and T use and phone use into sleep where then and phone use into sleep where then and phone use into sleep where then you're depleting the the the replenish you're depleting the the the replenish you're depleting the the the replenish where you're undermining the where you're undermining the where you're undermining the replenishment of the dopamine Reserve replenishment of the dopamine Reserve replenishment of the dopamine Reserve right so then there's all that
2:04right so then there's all that right so then there's all that contextual stuff I think an hour a day contextual stuff I think an hour a day contextual stuff I think an hour a day on Instagram if you think about that's a on Instagram if you think about that's a on Instagram if you think about that's a pretty significant investment um and pretty significant investment um and pretty significant investment um and with X I can't even make a with X I can't even make a with X I can't even make a recommendation I do go on there and post recommendation I do go on there and post recommendation I do go on there and post I have kind of a Bittersweet relation to I have kind of a Bittersweet relation to I have kind of a Bittersweet relation to it right now Lex Freedman my buddy our it right now Lex Freedman my buddy our it right now Lex Freedman my buddy our buddy is um has a far more um kind of uh buddy is um has a far more um kind of uh buddy is um has a far more um kind of uh symbiotic relationship with ex he it symbiotic relationship with ex he it symbiotic relationship with ex he it just sort of like works for him whereas just sort of like works for him whereas just sort of like works for him whereas I feel that more on an Instagram I feel that more on an Instagram I feel that more on an Instagram platform and um it's just it's different platform and um it's just it's different platform and um it's just it's different cultures and maybe I need to adjust my cultures and maybe I need to adjust my cultures and maybe I need to adjust my follows and and and and so on but I follows and and and and so on but I follows and and and and so on but I think an hour a day to me just seems think an hour a day to me just seems think an hour a day to me just seems like okay that's plenty and is enough like okay that's plenty and is enough like okay that's plenty and is enough what role do you think that going to what role do you think that going to what role do you think that going to things like Instagram and Twitter and things like Instagram and Twitter and things like Instagram and Twitter and Tik Tok um this this context switching Tik Tok um this this context switching Tik Tok um this this context switching where you're you know you're working but where you're you know you're working but where you're you know you're working but then you're checking Twitter and then then you're checking Twitter and then then you're checking Twitter and then like what role is that playing in our like what role is that playing in our like what role is that playing in our our ability to focus and attention ADHD our ability to focus and attention ADHD our ability to focus and attention ADHD like symptoms I mean there was like a I like symptoms I mean there was like a I like symptoms I mean there was like a I read last night like one in nine
2:05read last night like one in nine read last night like one in nine children has ADHD now I don't know like children has ADHD now I don't know like children has ADHD now I don't know like wow what that actually means but yeah wow what that actually means but yeah wow what that actually means but yeah wow exactly um so yeah I think um the wow exactly um so yeah I think um the wow exactly um so yeah I think um the the because I grew up and spend still a the because I grew up and spend still a the because I grew up and spend still a fair amount of time in the Bay Area fair amount of time in the Bay Area fair amount of time in the Bay Area although I'm in Los Angeles far more now although I'm in Los Angeles far more now although I'm in Los Angeles far more now um an interesting question is always to um an interesting question is always to um an interesting question is always to ask ask the um heads of these companies ask ask the um heads of these companies ask ask the um heads of these companies or the CEOs how long they let their kids or the CEOs how long they let their kids or the CEOs how long they let their kids be on social media and you'll often find be on social media and you'll often find be on social media and you'll often find that it's a very very small number and that it's a very very small number and that it's a very very small number and that tells you something right there that tells you something right there that tells you something right there okay so I think um the task switching okay so I think um the task switching okay so I think um the task switching the context switching no doubt is the context switching no doubt is the context switching no doubt is impairing adults ability to adults' impairing adults ability to adults' impairing adults ability to adults' ability to engage and stay engaged in ability to engage and stay engaged in ability to engage and stay engaged in one thing reading a book unless it's one thing reading a book unless it's one thing reading a book unless it's extremely engaging is going to be be extremely engaging is going to be be extremely engaging is going to be be less uh attention um harnessing than less uh attention um harnessing than less uh attention um harnessing than social media why social media is movies social media why social media is movies social media why social media is movies why you're scrolling I mean the brain why you're scrolling I mean the brain why you're scrolling I mean the brain has never seen this kind of thing before
2:06has never seen this kind of thing before has never seen this kind of thing before even you have 300 channels on your even you have 300 channels on your even you have 300 channels on your television you know and you're SC just television you know and you're SC just television you know and you're SC just scrolling scrolling scrolling at short scrolling scrolling scrolling at short scrolling scrolling scrolling at short distance with the feedback of people you distance with the feedback of people you distance with the feedback of people you recognize and which isn't true for most recognize and which isn't true for most recognize and which isn't true for most people with watching television or um people with watching television or um people with watching television or um and feedback and likes and comments and and feedback and likes and comments and and feedback and likes and comments and clapbacks and attacks and um reward I clapbacks and attacks and um reward I clapbacks and attacks and um reward I mean it's it's incredible I think I'm you know I I'm a Content consumer I'm you know I I'm a Content consumer but I'm a content creator as you are um but I'm a content creator as you are um but I'm a content creator as you are um of course and I like to think in terms of course and I like to think in terms of course and I like to think in terms of Are We consuming content or are we of Are We consuming content or are we of Are We consuming content or are we creating content and just being very creating content and just being very creating content and just being very judicious about consumption of content I judicious about consumption of content I judicious about consumption of content I mean I think it's great fun and I mean I think it's great fun and I mean I think it's great fun and I encourage people to put stuff out on the encourage people to put stuff out on the encourage people to put stuff out on the social media in fact um recently a clip social media in fact um recently a clip social media in fact um recently a clip was cut I there was like a math Gaff um was cut I there was like a math Gaff um was cut I there was like a math Gaff um that I did and I I came out and that I did and I I came out and that I did and I I came out and apologize for the error I occasionally apologize for the error I occasionally apologize for the error I occasionally make errors in podcast and we put them make errors in podcast and we put them make errors in podcast and we put them in the captions but anyway put something in the captions but anyway put something in the captions but anyway put something out there but the the caption to that out there but the the caption to that out there but the the caption to that post was you know I would hate for post was you know I would hate for post was you know I would hate for anyone to resist posting their creative
2:07anyone to resist posting their creative anyone to resist posting their creative thoughts their creative Outlet um for thoughts their creative Outlet um for thoughts their creative Outlet um for fear of of attack or making mistakes I fear of of attack or making mistakes I fear of of attack or making mistakes I think we need to I I sound kind of like think we need to I I sound kind of like think we need to I I sound kind of like you know it's a party line now but um to you know it's a party line now but um to you know it's a party line now but um to foster a community of people like foster a community of people like foster a community of people like encouraging people to to create stuff encouraging people to to create stuff encouraging people to to create stuff and put it online but that's different and put it online but that's different and put it online but that's different than just passive consumption all the than just passive consumption all the than just passive consumption all the time I think there's so much good to be time I think there's so much good to be time I think there's so much good to be had with social media but I think an had with social media but I think an had with social media but I think an hour a day on Instagram maybe 30 minutes hour a day on Instagram maybe 30 minutes hour a day on Instagram maybe 30 minutes a day on X and you're good and even a day on X and you're good and even a day on X and you're good and even there are 90 minutes out of your waking there are 90 minutes out of your waking there are 90 minutes out of your waking day and then what part of your day this day and then what part of your day this day and then what part of your day this is important you know when I look at the is important you know when I look at the is important you know when I look at the my day I know that when I wake up in the my day I know that when I wake up in the my day I know that when I wake up in the morning I'm a little groggy but then morning I'm a little groggy but then morning I'm a little groggy but then I've got three or four hours that if I I've got three or four hours that if I I've got three or four hours that if I can get if I'm going to get really can get if I'm going to get really can get if I'm going to get really quality work done it's in that three or quality work done it's in that three or quality work done it's in that three or four hours or the three or four hours four hours or the three or four hours four hours or the three or four hours right after lunch and that's it I'm not right after lunch and that's it I'm not right after lunch and that's it I'm not the kind of person that's doing quality the kind of person that's doing quality the kind of person that's doing quality work now between the hours of 8:00 p.m. work now between the hours of 8:00 p.m. work now between the hours of 8:00 p.m. and midnight it's just not happening and midnight it's just not happening and midnight it's just not happening anymore it happened years ago but it's anymore it happened years ago but it's anymore it happened years ago but it's not happening anymore so where is that not happening anymore so where is that not happening anymore so where is that 60 to 90 minutes falling is also key 60 to 90 minutes falling is also key 60 to 90 minutes falling is also key maybe it should be for an hour or so maybe it should be for an hour or so maybe it should be for an hour or so before bedtime provided it's not too before bedtime provided it's not too before bedtime provided it's not too stimulating maybe it should be over your
2:08stimulating maybe it should be over your stimulating maybe it should be over your lunch break you just handle it then but lunch break you just handle it then but lunch break you just handle it then but when it's first thing in the morning when it's first thing in the morning when it's first thing in the morning then several times throughout the then several times throughout the then several times throughout the morning and then later in the afternoon morning and then later in the afternoon morning and then later in the afternoon and then in the evening I think what I'm and then in the evening I think what I'm and then in the evening I think what I'm describing Is Not Unusual and not describing Is Not Unusual and not describing Is Not Unusual and not unusual not just for kids you know unusual not just for kids you know unusual not just for kids you know Jonathan hates work that's been Jonathan hates work that's been Jonathan hates work that's been discussed so much now about social media discussed so much now about social media discussed so much now about social media consumption and the the challenges and consumption and the the challenges and consumption and the the challenges and concerns with that but also in adults I concerns with that but also in adults I concerns with that but also in adults I mean since when I'm 48 years old and mean since when I'm 48 years old and mean since when I'm 48 years old and it's kind of remarkable I mean I see it's kind of remarkable I mean I see it's kind of remarkable I mean I see people from my high school class and people from my high school class and people from my high school class and like I'm one of them so I can only laugh like I'm one of them so I can only laugh like I'm one of them so I can only laugh at myself here but it's like we're grown at myself here but it's like we're grown at myself here but it's like we're grown adults like posting what we did and like adults like posting what we did and like adults like posting what we did and like showing it off to the world there's a showing it off to the world there's a showing it off to the world there's a kind of teenage element to it it's kind kind of teenage element to it it's kind kind of teenage element to it it's kind of like silly if I really step back from of like silly if I really step back from of like silly if I really step back from it I go wait like are the adults it I go wait like are the adults it I go wait like are the adults behaving like kids and the kids are behaving like kids and the kids are behaving like kids and the kids are behaving like adults like what's going behaving like adults like what's going behaving like adults like what's going on here and again there's use of sharing on here and again there's use of sharing on here and again there's use of sharing science and other creative crafts and science and other creative crafts and science and other creative crafts and and but well aren't they chasing the and but well aren't they chasing the and but well aren't they chasing the dopamine the dopamine like I getting dopamine the dopamine like I getting dopamine the dopamine like I getting likes shows that adult yeah adults are likes shows that adult yeah adults are likes shows that adult yeah adults are just as prone to it but it it's sort of
2:09just as prone to it but it it's sort of just as prone to it but it it's sort of if we step back and look to ourselves if we step back and look to ourselves if we step back and look to ourselves like an experiment we'd say wow you know like an experiment we'd say wow you know like an experiment we'd say wow you know like the the uh the people in the you like the the uh the people in the you like the the uh the people in the you know 35 to 60 year-old range of this know 35 to 60 year-old range of this know 35 to 60 year-old range of this species that we call human is kind of species that we call human is kind of species that we call human is kind of like doing the same stuff that the kids like doing the same stuff that the kids like doing the same stuff that the kids are doing it's and maybe you just say are doing it's and maybe you just say are doing it's and maybe you just say well duh but it's interesting I mean it well duh but it's interesting I mean it well duh but it's interesting I mean it you know and you say well like how how you know and you say well like how how you know and you say well like how how good or poor of one life is that and so good or poor of one life is that and so good or poor of one life is that and so I think about this stuff a lot um but I think about this stuff a lot um but I think about this stuff a lot um but I'm on there and I teach and I enjoy it I'm on there and I teach and I enjoy it I'm on there and I teach and I enjoy it and I learn and um you know and I'll and I learn and um you know and I'll and I learn and um you know and I'll continue but I have but I think one has continue but I have but I think one has continue but I have but I think one has to be really Discerning and set to be really Discerning and set to be really Discerning and set constraints absolutely I mean if it's constraints absolutely I mean if it's constraints absolutely I mean if it's tapping into your dopamine system and tapping into your dopamine system and tapping into your dopamine system and you're I mean if it's if it's kind of you're I mean if it's if it's kind of you're I mean if it's if it's kind of like that substance right it's like that substance right it's like that substance right it's technology it's not methamphetamine it's technology it's not methamphetamine it's technology it's not methamphetamine it's not cocaine but it sure as heck is not cocaine but it sure as heck is not cocaine but it sure as heck is affecting your dopamine system and so it affecting your dopamine system and so it affecting your dopamine system and so it absolutely is and it also has the absolutely is and it also has the absolutely is and it also has the potential for a lot of problems you know potential for a lot of problems you know potential for a lot of problems you know this isn't domain that you know I have this isn't domain that you know I have this isn't domain that you know I have expertise in or that is covered on the expertise in or that is covered on the expertise in or that is covered on the podcast but you know there's this guy on podcast but you know there's this guy on podcast but you know there's this guy on um who's done some podcasts with Lex um who's done some podcasts with Lex um who's done some podcasts with Lex fredman and he's been on a few others fredman and he's been on a few others fredman and he's been on a few others James ston he's a he's a divorce lawyer
2:10James ston he's a he's a divorce lawyer James ston he's a he's a divorce lawyer in New York and he talks about how the in New York and he talks about how the in New York and he talks about how the Advent of social media has created this Advent of social media has created this Advent of social media has created this huge surge in um I don't know if overall huge surge in um I don't know if overall huge surge in um I don't know if overall divorce rates but then you know he talks divorce rates but then you know he talks divorce rates but then you know he talks about the trajectory of lot of the about the trajectory of lot of the about the trajectory of lot of the failures of a lot of marriages and it's failures of a lot of marriages and it's failures of a lot of marriages and it's like you know that and actually people like you know that and actually people like you know that and actually people have talked about Instagram as like one have talked about Instagram as like one have talked about Instagram as like one of the main dating apps it's not sold as of the main dating apps it's not sold as of the main dating apps it's not sold as a dating it's not offered as a dating a dating it's not offered as a dating a dating it's not offered as a dating app but this is where a lot of people app but this is where a lot of people app but this is where a lot of people meet they see people they used to know meet they see people they used to know meet they see people they used to know hey how's it going and then the hey how's it going and then the hey how's it going and then the conversation converts I mean this is you conversation converts I mean this is you conversation converts I mean this is you know I'm I'm neither saying I'm not know I'm I'm neither saying I'm not know I'm I'm neither saying I'm not passing judgment I'm just saying you passing judgment I'm just saying you passing judgment I'm just saying you know there's a lot in the landscape of know there's a lot in the landscape of know there's a lot in the landscape of social media that lends itself to Too social media that lends itself to Too social media that lends itself to Too Much ease in certain types of human Much ease in certain types of human Much ease in certain types of human interaction and that inhibits our interaction and that inhibits our interaction and that inhibits our ability to do things that are really ability to do things that are really ability to do things that are really functional for our relationships and for functional for our relationships and for functional for our relationships and for our professional lives and for family I our professional lives and for family I our professional lives and for family I mean you know or just presence you know mean you know or just presence you know mean you know or just presence you know just like being there um not to get um just like being there um not to get um just like being there um not to get um sentimental here but that graduate sentimental here but that graduate sentimental here but that graduate adviser I was talking about before
2:11adviser I was talking about before adviser I was talking about before unfortunately passed away young she had unfortunately passed away young she had unfortunately passed away young she had the bracka mutation died at 50 her name the bracka mutation died at 50 her name the bracka mutation died at 50 her name was Barbara Chapman had two lovely was Barbara Chapman had two lovely was Barbara Chapman had two lovely daughters actually the second one just daughters actually the second one just daughters actually the second one just finished University in neurosciences so finished University in neurosciences so finished University in neurosciences so I was super happy for her and I'll never I was super happy for her and I'll never I was super happy for her and I'll never forget at her um it wasn't her funeral forget at her um it wasn't her funeral forget at her um it wasn't her funeral but it was a kind of like celebration of but it was a kind of like celebration of but it was a kind of like celebration of life thing after she ended that her life thing after she ended that her life thing after she ended that her daughters maybe it was one or both daughters maybe it was one or both daughters maybe it was one or both talked about how one of the best things talked about how one of the best things talked about how one of the best things about their mom and their memories of about their mom and their memories of about their mom and their memories of their mom was unstructured time with her their mom was unstructured time with her their mom was unstructured time with her where she would just like sit with them where she would just like sit with them where she would just like sit with them and hang out and they would just like do and hang out and they would just like do and hang out and they would just like do stuff and she wasn't heavy user of the stuff and she wasn't heavy user of the stuff and she wasn't heavy user of the phone so that was 2014 she passed away phone so that was 2014 she passed away phone so that was 2014 she passed away um so phones were kind of really um so phones were kind of really um so phones were kind of really beginning to pick up in terms of of beginning to pick up in terms of of beginning to pick up in terms of of their use smartphones but I that rung in their use smartphones but I that rung in their use smartphones but I that rung in my mind because I was thinking wow like my mind because I was thinking wow like my mind because I was thinking wow like of all the things for children to of all the things for children to of all the things for children to remember about their deceased mom it was remember about their deceased mom it was remember about their deceased mom it was the unstructured time it wasn't the the the unstructured time it wasn't the the the unstructured time it wasn't the the Giants game although they probably Giants game although they probably Giants game although they probably remember that they were big Giants fans remember that they were big Giants fans remember that they were big Giants fans or other things but it's the or other things but it's the or other things but it's the unstructured time that we spend with unstructured time that we spend with unstructured time that we spend with people where they are giving us their people where they are giving us their people where they are giving us their full presence and we're giving them our
2:12full presence and we're giving them our full presence and we're giving them our full presentence and then you look full presentence and then you look full presentence and then you look around at like dinner tables now and around at like dinner tables now and around at like dinner tables now and restaurants you look around like restaurants you look around like restaurants you look around like everyone's on their phones anyway I'm everyone's on their phones anyway I'm everyone's on their phones anyway I'm saying what everyone already knows and saying what everyone already knows and saying what everyone already knows and I'm guilty of it too but I think we the I'm guilty of it too but I think we the I'm guilty of it too but I think we the world is due for an adjustment so I mean world is due for an adjustment so I mean world is due for an adjustment so I mean so kind of on the same lines of this so kind of on the same lines of this so kind of on the same lines of this technology thing but shifting gears more technology thing but shifting gears more technology thing but shifting gears more to light circadian rhythm I mean Vision to light circadian rhythm I mean Vision to light circadian rhythm I mean Vision my favorite topic this yeah perhaps your my favorite topic this yeah perhaps your my favorite topic this yeah perhaps your your favorite OB I am obsessed yeah I um your favorite OB I am obsessed yeah I um your favorite OB I am obsessed yeah I um you know I spend a lot of time at my you know I spend a lot of time at my you know I spend a lot of time at my computer as do you and many people and computer as do you and many people and computer as do you and many people and we're all you know we spend a lot of we're all you know we spend a lot of we're all you know we spend a lot of time time time indoors working on our laptops or indoors working on our laptops or indoors working on our laptops or computers whatever and I've heard you computers whatever and I've heard you computers whatever and I've heard you talk about something very interesting talk about something very interesting talk about something very interesting which is this low angle Sol low solar which is this low angle Sol low solar which is this low angle Sol low solar angle um you know viewing and and I'd angle um you know viewing and and I'd angle um you know viewing and and I'd love to have you elaborate on that love to have you elaborate on that love to have you elaborate on that because I've always heard and sat and because I've always heard and sat and because I've always heard and sat and Panda was the first to really kind of Panda was the first to really kind of Panda was the first to really kind of get me interested in this topic our our
2:13get me interested in this topic our our get me interested in this topic our our our mutual friend um wonderful our mutual friend um wonderful our mutual friend um wonderful chronobiologists talking about early chronobiologists talking about early chronobiologists talking about early morning bright light exposure and how morning bright light exposure and how morning bright light exposure and how important it is for resetting our important it is for resetting our important it is for resetting our circadian rhythm which is for people circadian rhythm which is for people circadian rhythm which is for people listening is our 24-hour clock and uh listening is our 24-hour clock and uh listening is our 24-hour clock and uh you know everything is on this the cycle you know everything is on this the cycle you know everything is on this the cycle as you know more than I do about our as you know more than I do about our as you know more than I do about our metabolism uh getting sleepy our metabolism uh getting sleepy our metabolism uh getting sleepy our wakefulness as you mentioned our arousal wakefulness as you mentioned our arousal wakefulness as you mentioned our arousal all this stuff but I would love to know all this stuff but I would love to know all this stuff but I would love to know about this this low solar angle light about this this low solar angle light about this this low solar angle light and how that ties into our Circa Rhythm and how that ties into our Circa Rhythm and how that ties into our Circa Rhythm yeah so um some just real quick overview yeah so um some just real quick overview yeah so um some just real quick overview of some very simple biology lining the of some very simple biology lining the of some very simple biology lining the back of your two eyes like a pie crust back of your two eyes like a pie crust back of your two eyes like a pie crust is your neural retina these are the is your neural retina these are the is your neural retina these are the neurons that neurons that neurons that transmit information about the amount transmit information about the amount transmit information about the amount and quality of light in our environment and quality of light in our environment and quality of light in our environment to the brain and then the brain does to the brain and then the brain does to the brain and then the brain does various things with it there's a pathway various things with it there's a pathway various things with it there's a pathway directly from the eyes to the directly from the eyes to the directly from the eyes to the hypothalamus there's a collection of hypothalamus there's a collection of hypothalamus there's a collection of neurons there are called the supermatic neurons there are called the supermatic neurons there are called the supermatic nucleus that dictate our Master
2:14nucleus that dictate our Master nucleus that dictate our Master circadian rhythms that you know circadian rhythms that you know circadian rhythms that you know essentially cause all the other cells of essentially cause all the other cells of essentially cause all the other cells of our body to be on a similar schedule or our body to be on a similar schedule or our body to be on a similar schedule or control the clocks within all the other control the clocks within all the other control the clocks within all the other cells of our body there's a pathway from cells of our body there's a pathway from cells of our body there's a pathway from our neural retinas of course to areas of our neural retinas of course to areas of our neural retinas of course to areas of the thalamus which is a essentially a the thalamus which is a essentially a the thalamus which is a essentially a relay station up to the visual cortex relay station up to the visual cortex relay station up to the visual cortex for conscious perception of things like for conscious perception of things like for conscious perception of things like color shape and edges and things like color shape and edges and things like color shape and edges and things like that and this system is the main system that and this system is the main system that and this system is the main system by which we know where we are in space by which we know where we are in space by which we know where we are in space Vision in physical space and time now Vision in physical space and time now Vision in physical space and time now the time part is a little bit more the time part is a little bit more the time part is a little bit more mysterious to most people but the way it mysterious to most people but the way it mysterious to most people but the way it works is the following obviously um the works is the following obviously um the works is the following obviously um the sun rises and the sun sets um and our sun rises and the sun sets um and our sun rises and the sun sets um and our bodies Our internal milu need to know bodies Our internal milu need to know bodies Our internal milu need to know where we are in time within the course where we are in time within the course where we are in time within the course of of a day and longer within the course of of a day and longer within the course of of a day and longer within the course of a year as well we can talk about Circ of a year as well we can talk about Circ of a year as well we can talk about Circ anual rhythms in a bit but there's a anual rhythms in a bit but there's a anual rhythms in a bit but there's a special category of neuron called the
2:15special category of neuron called the special category of neuron called the retinal gangan cell which is the cell retinal gangan cell which is the cell retinal gangan cell which is the cell that actually passes electrical that actually passes electrical that actually passes electrical information into the information into the information into the brain and that cell has a bunch of brain and that cell has a bunch of brain and that cell has a bunch of different types some of them respond to different types some of them respond to different types some of them respond to edges to Colors Etc but there's a edges to Colors Etc but there's a edges to Colors Etc but there's a specific type called the intrinsically specific type called the intrinsically specific type called the intrinsically photosensitive melanops and reog photosensitive melanops and reog photosensitive melanops and reog gangling cell are real mouthful that gangling cell are real mouthful that gangling cell are real mouthful that sain and samhar and IGI provencio and sain and samhar and IGI provencio and sain and samhar and IGI provencio and David Bon and others characterized in David Bon and others characterized in David Bon and others characterized in the early 2000s and for the subsequent the early 2000s and for the subsequent the early 2000s and for the subsequent years and still characterizing that is a years and still characterizing that is a years and still characterizing that is a neuron that's not as concerned with the neuron that's not as concerned with the neuron that's not as concerned with the shapes of things or the colors of things shapes of things or the colors of things shapes of things or the colors of things although we'll talk about color in a although we'll talk about color in a although we'll talk about color in a moment but rather how bright it is in a moment but rather how bright it is in a moment but rather how bright it is in a given environment and it is those cells given environment and it is those cells given environment and it is those cells and the activation of those cells that and the activation of those cells that and the activation of those cells that so-called sets are circadian so-called sets are circadian so-called sets are circadian clock so that we have elevated daytime clock so that we have elevated daytime clock so that we have elevated daytime mood focus and alertness and that we mood focus and alertness and that we mood focus and alertness and that we fall asleep at night and stay asleep fall asleep at night and stay asleep fall asleep at night and stay asleep okay so low solar angle sunlight turns okay so low solar angle sunlight turns okay so low solar angle sunlight turns out to be the optimal stimulus for these
2:16out to be the optimal stimulus for these out to be the optimal stimulus for these cells what do what do I mean by low cells what do what do I mean by low cells what do what do I mean by low solar angle I mean when the sun is low solar angle I mean when the sun is low solar angle I mean when the sun is low in the sky so that's twice a day it's in in the sky so that's twice a day it's in in the sky so that's twice a day it's in the morning and in the evening low solar the morning and in the evening low solar the morning and in the evening low solar angle sunlight even on cloudy days okay angle sunlight even on cloudy days okay angle sunlight even on cloudy days okay even on overcast days is distinctly even on overcast days is distinctly even on overcast days is distinctly different for this system than when the different for this system than when the different for this system than when the sun is overhead sun is overhead sun is overhead why okay so we have in humans who we are why okay so we have in humans who we are why okay so we have in humans who we are trir chromates unless we're red green trir chromates unless we're red green trir chromates unless we're red green color blind which is like one in 180 color blind which is like one in 180 color blind which is like one in 180 males I think we are trichromats we have males I think we are trichromats we have males I think we are trichromats we have a what sometimes is called a blue cone a a what sometimes is called a blue cone a a what sometimes is called a blue cone a green cone and a red cone but that green cone and a red cone but that green cone and a red cone but that really means that they respond they really means that they respond they really means that they respond they absorb short wavelength medium absorb short wavelength medium absorb short wavelength medium wavelength or long wavelength light and wavelength or long wavelength light and wavelength or long wavelength light and from that we generate this incredible from that we generate this incredible from that we generate this incredible thing in our brain which is trichromacy thing in our brain which is trichromacy thing in our brain which is trichromacy the ability to see the difference the ability to see the difference the ability to see the difference between Reds and greens and Grays and between Reds and greens and Grays and between Reds and greens and Grays and purples it's incredible a mantis shrimp purples it's incredible a mantis shrimp purples it's incredible a mantis shrimp can see far more of those things but we can see far more of those things but we can see far more of those things but we can see a lot of different color can see a lot of different color can see a lot of different color variation based on the absorption of variation based on the absorption of variation based on the absorption of those different wavelengths of light the those different wavelengths of light the those different wavelengths of light the intrinsically photosensitive ganglion intrinsically photosensitive ganglion intrinsically photosensitive ganglion cells have their own pigment within them
2:17cells have their own pigment within them cells have their own pigment within them they don't need input from these cones they don't need input from these cones they don't need input from these cones but they get it and they use it this is but they get it and they use it this is but they get it and they use it this is important they get it and they use it so important they get it and they use it so important they get it and they use it so these cells are brightness detectors these cells are brightness detectors these cells are brightness detectors such that if you shine a really bright such that if you shine a really bright such that if you shine a really bright light on your eyes let's say in the light on your eyes let's say in the light on your eyes let's say in the middle of the day you walk outside in middle of the day you walk outside in middle of the day you walk outside in San Diego Los Angeles even overcast day San Diego Los Angeles even overcast day San Diego Los Angeles even overcast day like before we came in here today really like before we came in here today really like before we came in here today really bright tons of photon energy coming in bright tons of photon energy coming in bright tons of photon energy coming in far brighter than even under these far brighter than even under these far brighter than even under these bright artificial lights here even bright artificial lights here even bright artificial lights here even though here it looks really bright if we though here it looks really bright if we though here it looks really bright if we were to measure this the environment were to measure this the environment were to measure this the environment we're in now is probably I don't know, we're in now is probably I don't know, we're in now is probably I don't know, 1500 to 2,000 Lux Outdoors is probably 1500 to 2,000 Lux Outdoors is probably 1500 to 2,000 Lux Outdoors is probably 10,000 to 50,000 Lux you know it's just 10,000 to 50,000 Lux you know it's just 10,000 to 50,000 Lux you know it's just a wild a wild a wild difference and again that's even behind difference and again that's even behind difference and again that's even behind cloud cloud cloud cover the middle of the day constitutes cover the middle of the day constitutes cover the middle of the day constitutes What's called the Circadian Dead Zone What's called the Circadian Dead Zone What's called the Circadian Dead Zone meaning bright light at that time is meaning bright light at that time is meaning bright light at that time is known to improve mood on the skin known to improve mood on the skin known to improve mood on the skin provided you don't burn maybe we talk provided you don't burn maybe we talk provided you don't burn maybe we talk about sunay burn and sunscreen maybe we about sunay burn and sunscreen maybe we about sunay burn and sunscreen maybe we don't avoid that third rail um by the don't avoid that third rail um by the don't avoid that third rail um by the way I use sunscreen the right one as way I use sunscreen the right one as way I use sunscreen the right one as does Rhonda despite what you might read does Rhonda despite what you might read does Rhonda despite what you might read or hear about the internet we both said
2:18or hear about the internet we both said or hear about the internet we both said it we both use sunscreen and we just use it we both use sunscreen and we just use it we both use sunscreen and we just use the right ones and avoid the wrong ones the right ones and avoid the wrong ones the right ones and avoid the wrong ones the light in the middle of the day will the light in the middle of the day will the light in the middle of the day will improve mood by activating these improve mood by activating these improve mood by activating these melanopsin cells it will improve melanopsin cells it will improve melanopsin cells it will improve alertness on the skin there's evidence alertness on the skin there's evidence alertness on the skin there's evidence that it can improve the output of that it can improve the output of that it can improve the output of certain hormones like testosterone and certain hormones like testosterone and certain hormones like testosterone and estrogen feelings of well-being study estrogen feelings of well-being study estrogen feelings of well-being study out of Israel a few years ago and cell out of Israel a few years ago and cell out of Israel a few years ago and cell press but that light in the middle of press but that light in the middle of press but that light in the middle of the day if you see the sun don't stare the day if you see the sun don't stare the day if you see the sun don't stare at the Sun but if you see it it looks at the Sun but if you see it it looks at the Sun but if you see it it looks like white and blue light right all like white and blue light right all like white and blue light right all wavelengths essentially coming at you wavelengths essentially coming at you wavelengths essentially coming at you full spectrum in the morning when the full spectrum in the morning when the full spectrum in the morning when the sun is low in the sky you'll notice that sun is low in the sky you'll notice that sun is low in the sky you'll notice that there are blues and there are like there are blues and there are like there are blues and there are like yellows and oranges maybe even Reds if yellows and oranges maybe even Reds if yellows and oranges maybe even Reds if it's a beautiful desert sunrise and in it's a beautiful desert sunrise and in it's a beautiful desert sunrise and in the evening of course the sunset has all the evening of course the sunset has all the evening of course the sunset has all that richness of the long wavelength that richness of the long wavelength that richness of the long wavelength light orange red Etc and blue and it light orange red Etc and blue and it light orange red Etc and blue and it turns out that the cells that set your turns out that the cells that set your turns out that the cells that set your circadian clock these melanops and circadian clock these melanops and circadian clock these melanops and intrinsically photosensitive gangion
2:19intrinsically photosensitive gangion intrinsically photosensitive gangion cells yes they respond to Bright Light cells yes they respond to Bright Light cells yes they respond to Bright Light very high intensities of light such as very high intensities of light such as very high intensities of light such as at midday or from a maybe a sunlight at midday or from a maybe a sunlight at midday or from a maybe a sunlight simulator of just blue light in you know simulator of just blue light in you know simulator of just blue light in you know home environment if you purchase a SAT home environment if you purchase a SAT home environment if you purchase a SAT so-called sad lamp but the optimal so-called sad lamp but the optimal so-called sad lamp but the optimal stimulus is that low solar angle stimulus is that low solar angle stimulus is that low solar angle sunlight in the morning especially and sunlight in the morning especially and sunlight in the morning especially and in the evening because those cones and in the evening because those cones and in the evening because those cones and in particular the the short wavelength in particular the the short wavelength in particular the the short wavelength responsive cones the BL AK blue light responsive cones the BL AK blue light responsive cones the BL AK blue light and the longer wavelength the Reds the and the longer wavelength the Reds the and the longer wavelength the Reds the orange they converge in terms of driving orange they converge in terms of driving orange they converge in terms of driving the activation of those cells those the activation of those cells those the activation of those cells those melanopsin cells and they activate those melanopsin cells and they activate those melanopsin cells and they activate those cells robustly early in the day meaning cells robustly early in the day meaning cells robustly early in the day meaning when you see contrast between blue and when you see contrast between blue and when you see contrast between blue and orange or blue and red which is istic of orange or blue and red which is istic of orange or blue and red which is istic of low solar angle sunlight you are driving low solar angle sunlight you are driving low solar angle sunlight you are driving those the activation of those those the activation of those those the activation of those intrinsically photosensitive gangling intrinsically photosensitive gangling intrinsically photosensitive gangling cells the most and you are sending the
2:20cells the most and you are sending the cells the most and you are sending the primordial evolutionarily conserved primordial evolutionarily conserved primordial evolutionarily conserved robust signal to your brain the day is robust signal to your brain the day is robust signal to your brain the day is starting you're going to activate a huge starting you're going to activate a huge starting you're going to activate a huge number of different endocrine neural and number of different endocrine neural and number of different endocrine neural and other systems immune functions in the other systems immune functions in the other systems immune functions in the body now what this translates to is even body now what this translates to is even body now what this translates to is even if it's overcast get out as soon as the if it's overcast get out as soon as the if it's overcast get out as soon as the Sun is up Sun is up Sun is up sorry I should restate that even if it's sorry I should restate that even if it's sorry I should restate that even if it's overcast as close to waking as possible overcast as close to waking as possible overcast as close to waking as possible get some sunlight in your eyes now get some sunlight in your eyes now get some sunlight in your eyes now notice I said sunlight you don't have to notice I said sunlight you don't have to notice I said sunlight you don't have to see the Sun as a physical object get the see the Sun as a physical object get the see the Sun as a physical object get the light in your eyes early day sunlight is light in your eyes early day sunlight is light in your eyes early day sunlight is going to be most valuable for setting going to be most valuable for setting going to be most valuable for setting your circadian rhythm now what's your circadian rhythm now what's your circadian rhythm now what's interesting is that all species that we interesting is that all species that we interesting is that all species that we are aware of like dogs for instance are aware of like dogs for instance are aware of like dogs for instance they're not trir chromates they're they're not trir chromates they're they're not trir chromates they're dichromats but they have a short dichromats but they have a short dichromats but they have a short wavelength cone and a long wavelength wavelength cone and a long wavelength wavelength cone and a long wavelength cone look at a dog in the the morning or cone look at a dog in the the morning or cone look at a dog in the the morning or in the afternoon and they will look in in the afternoon and they will look in in the afternoon and they will look in the direction of the sun birds have that the direction of the sun birds have that the direction of the sun birds have that pineal that can get light through the pineal that can get light through the pineal that can get light through the skull so slightly different but most all skull so slightly different but most all skull so slightly different but most all species have some excuse me all species
2:21species have some excuse me all species species have some excuse me all species have a dedicated system in the eye and have a dedicated system in the eye and have a dedicated system in the eye and brain to extract the specific qualities brain to extract the specific qualities brain to extract the specific qualities of light that are present at early in of light that are present at early in of light that are present at early in the day low solar angle sunlight and the day low solar angle sunlight and the day low solar angle sunlight and again in the evening low solar angle again in the evening low solar angle again in the evening low solar angle sunlight to convert that into neural and sunlight to convert that into neural and sunlight to convert that into neural and hormone signals that the brain can hormone signals that the brain can hormone signals that the brain can understand put very simply get outside understand put very simply get outside understand put very simply get outside for 5 minutes or so in the morning maybe for 5 minutes or so in the morning maybe for 5 minutes or so in the morning maybe 10 minutes if it's overcast don't wear 10 minutes if it's overcast don't wear 10 minutes if it's overcast don't wear sunglasses for this don't stare at the sunglasses for this don't stare at the sunglasses for this don't stare at the sun Eyeglasses and Contacts are fine sun Eyeglasses and Contacts are fine sun Eyeglasses and Contacts are fine don't try and do it through a window don't try and do it through a window don't try and do it through a window that's not going to work too much is that's not going to work too much is that's not going to work too much is filtered out and just look in the filtered out and just look in the filtered out and just look in the direction of the Sun the general direction of the Sun the general direction of the Sun the general direction and you will improve daytime direction and you will improve daytime direction and you will improve daytime mood focus and alertness and it sets a mood focus and alertness and it sets a mood focus and alertness and it sets a timer for your nighttime sleep now timer for your nighttime sleep now timer for your nighttime sleep now people say well I wake up before the sun people say well I wake up before the sun people say well I wake up before the sun comes out what can I do I was just say comes out what can I do I was just say comes out what can I do I was just say well listen unless you have powers I'm well listen unless you have powers I'm well listen unless you have powers I'm not aware of you got to wait if you not aware of you got to wait if you not aware of you got to wait if you don't have access to sunlight for don't have access to sunlight for don't have access to sunlight for whatever reason for about $100 I don't whatever reason for about $100 I don't whatever reason for about $100 I don't have any relationship to any of these have any relationship to any of these have any relationship to any of these companies you can get a 10,000 Lux Light companies you can get a 10,000 Lux Light companies you can get a 10,000 Lux Light Panel and you can make your coffee in Panel and you can make your coffee in Panel and you can make your coffee in front of that it's not quite as good as
2:22front of that it's not quite as good as front of that it's not quite as good as the yellow blue orange blue contrast the yellow blue orange blue contrast the yellow blue orange blue contrast system that's going to come from low system that's going to come from low system that's going to come from low solar angle sunlight but it's going to solar angle sunlight but it's going to solar angle sunlight but it's going to be better than nothing now there's a be better than nothing now there's a be better than nothing now there's a there's a diabolical twist in all of there's a diabolical twist in all of there's a diabolical twist in all of this and then there's a solution also this and then there's a solution also this and then there's a solution also based on low solar angle sunlight the based on low solar angle sunlight the based on low solar angle sunlight the Diabolical twist is that early in the Diabolical twist is that early in the Diabolical twist is that early in the day and through throughout the day day and through throughout the day day and through throughout the day bright artificial lights are not bright artificial lights are not bright artificial lights are not sufficient for all the good stuff that sufficient for all the good stuff that sufficient for all the good stuff that you want from light you either need a you want from light you either need a you want from light you either need a sunlight simulator or ideally you just sunlight simulator or ideally you just sunlight simulator or ideally you just get outside for a bit in the get outside for a bit in the get outside for a bit in the morning after say 16 hours of being morning after say 16 hours of being morning after say 16 hours of being awake or so however it only takes a awake or so however it only takes a awake or so however it only takes a small amount of bright light to quash small amount of bright light to quash small amount of bright light to quash the amount of melatonin that's present the amount of melatonin that's present the amount of melatonin that's present and to disrupt your nighttime sleep so and to disrupt your nighttime sleep so and to disrupt your nighttime sleep so you need a lot of light early and you need a lot of light early and you need a lot of light early and throughout the day but don't get throughout the day but don't get throughout the day but don't get sunburned and don't damage your eyes and sunburned and don't damage your eyes and sunburned and don't damage your eyes and you want a minimal amount of light at you want a minimal amount of light at you want a minimal amount of light at night in fact I've vastly improved my night in fact I've vastly improved my night in fact I've vastly improved my transition into sleep and sleep by I'm transition into sleep and sleep by I'm transition into sleep and sleep by I'm not talking about red light panels but not talking about red light panels but not talking about red light panels but just buying some red light bulbs um
2:23just buying some red light bulbs um just buying some red light bulbs um there are a couple of companies that there are a couple of companies that there are a couple of companies that make these you can look for make these you can look for make these you can look for inexpensively and just going to Amber or inexpensively and just going to Amber or inexpensively and just going to Amber or red lights before sleep for about half red lights before sleep for about half red lights before sleep for about half an hour it's known to be um to prevent an hour it's known to be um to prevent an hour it's known to be um to prevent some cortisol increase that can come some cortisol increase that can come some cortisol increase that can come from Bright Lights of the blue variety from Bright Lights of the blue variety from Bright Lights of the blue variety some people will just use blue blockers some people will just use blue blockers some people will just use blue blockers and I have no objection to that now what and I have no objection to that now what and I have no objection to that now what do you do if you're going to be under do you do if you're going to be under do you do if you're going to be under bright lights at night viewing evening bright lights at night viewing evening bright lights at night viewing evening light can partially offset the negative light can partially offset the negative light can partially offset the negative effects of bright light later at night effects of bright light later at night effects of bright light later at night and this was shown in a really nice and this was shown in a really nice and this was shown in a really nice paper where they looked at the degree of paper where they looked at the degree of paper where they looked at the degree of melatonin suppression to bright light at melatonin suppression to bright light at melatonin suppression to bright light at night depending on whether or not people night depending on whether or not people night depending on whether or not people had seen some bright light in that study had seen some bright light in that study had seen some bright light in that study designed to mimic St sunlight in the designed to mimic St sunlight in the designed to mimic St sunlight in the evening for I I believe it was you know evening for I I believe it was you know evening for I I believe it was you know somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes in somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes in somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes in the evening now not everyone has time to the evening now not everyone has time to the evening now not everyone has time to watch a sunset in the evening but just watch a sunset in the evening but just watch a sunset in the evening but just getting outside popular the sunglasses getting outside popular the sunglasses getting outside popular the sunglasses off while you're walking to your car off while you're walking to your car off while you're walking to your car after work it's going to partially after work it's going to partially after work it's going to partially offset some of the negative effects of offset some of the negative effects of offset some of the negative effects of artificial lights at night and now we artificial lights at night and now we artificial lights at night and now we could get into a whole description about could get into a whole description about
2:24could get into a whole description about what's actually happening with low solar what's actually happening with low solar what's actually happening with low solar angle sunlight um and I'm happy to do angle sunlight um and I'm happy to do angle sunlight um and I'm happy to do that but suffice to say that the that but suffice to say that the that but suffice to say that the contrast between these you know oranges contrast between these you know oranges contrast between these you know oranges and blues or yellows and blues or Reds and blues or yellows and blues or Reds and blues or yellows and blues or Reds and blues that are occurring when the and blues that are occurring when the and blues that are occurring when the sun is relatively low in the sky you sun is relatively low in the sky you sun is relatively low in the sky you don't actually have to see it crossing don't actually have to see it crossing don't actually have to see it crossing the Horizon but if you do great the Horizon but if you do great the Horizon but if you do great relatively low in the sky it's that relatively low in the sky it's that relatively low in the sky it's that contrast at about 19 Herz believe it or contrast at about 19 Herz believe it or contrast at about 19 Herz believe it or not that's the optimal stimulation for not that's the optimal stimulation for not that's the optimal stimulation for these cells and there is one company I these cells and there is one company I these cells and there is one company I don't have an affiliation called 20 life don't have an affiliation called 20 life don't have an affiliation called 20 life that has developed a bulb that mimics that has developed a bulb that mimics that has developed a bulb that mimics this it's actually built by some this it's actually built by some this it's actually built by some absolutely spectacular circadian absolutely spectacular circadian absolutely spectacular circadian biologists up at the University of biologists up at the University of biologists up at the University of Washington um the bulb unfortunately for Washington um the bulb unfortunately for Washington um the bulb unfortunately for me is a little bit cumbersome because it me is a little bit cumbersome because it me is a little bit cumbersome because it involves an app and and hopefully involves an app and and hopefully involves an app and and hopefully they'll make an app free version but it they'll make an app free version but it they'll make an app free version but it flickers at 19 Hertz between um blue and flickers at 19 Hertz between um blue and flickers at 19 Hertz between um blue and orange blue and orange it's designed to orange blue and orange it's designed to orange blue and orange it's designed to mimic the sunrise and sunset um so mimic the sunrise and sunset um so mimic the sunrise and sunset um so people can if you're you like geeking people can if you're you like geeking people can if you're you like geeking out on light technology you can do that out on light technology you can do that out on light technology you can do that but I think there's still some but I think there's still some but I think there's still some improvements that need to be made and improvements that need to be made and improvements that need to be made and I'm saying this specifically so they'll I'm saying this specifically so they'll I'm saying this specifically so they'll make those improvements because I do
2:25make those improvements because I do make those improvements because I do like the technology it's the only one like the technology it's the only one like the technology it's the only one that I'm aware of that's grounded in the that I'm aware of that's grounded in the that I'm aware of that's grounded in the logic of how the biology actually is logic of how the biology actually is logic of how the biology actually is organized with this contrast between organized with this contrast between organized with this contrast between long and short wavelength light but all long and short wavelength light but all long and short wavelength light but all this is to say get morning sunlight in this is to say get morning sunlight in this is to say get morning sunlight in your eyes try and get it again in the your eyes try and get it again in the your eyes try and get it again in the evening great during the day don't burn evening great during the day don't burn evening great during the day don't burn and at night try and dim the lights as and at night try and dim the lights as and at night try and dim the lights as much as you can meaning as is reasonable much as you can meaning as is reasonable much as you can meaning as is reasonable for whatever activities and don't sweat for whatever activities and don't sweat for whatever activities and don't sweat it if you don't get bright light in your it if you don't get bright light in your it if you don't get bright light in your eyes or sunlight early in the day once eyes or sunlight early in the day once eyes or sunlight early in the day once this is a slow integrating system but this is a slow integrating system but this is a slow integrating system but after about 2 or 3 days you'll notice after about 2 or 3 days you'll notice after about 2 or 3 days you'll notice that things like uh your sleep will that things like uh your sleep will that things like uh your sleep will start to drift later um your morning start to drift later um your morning start to drift later um your morning energy will drift later there's also a energy will drift later there's also a energy will drift later there's also a really interesting effect of cortisol really interesting effect of cortisol really interesting effect of cortisol where bright light exposure early in the where bright light exposure early in the where bright light exposure early in the day increases the total amount of day increases the total amount of day increases the total amount of cortisol by about 50% people hear cortisol by about 50% people hear cortisol by about 50% people hear cortisol and they go oh I don't want cortisol and they go oh I don't want cortisol and they go oh I don't want elevated cortisol you want your cortisol elevated cortisol you want your cortisol elevated cortisol you want your cortisol elevated early in the day and then you elevated early in the day and then you elevated early in the day and then you want to taper off end of day want to taper off end of day want to taper off end of day spikes or increases in in late day spikes or increases in in late day spikes or increases in in late day cortisol are associated with depression cortisol are associated with depression cortisol are associated with depression and anxiety work from our Psychiatry and anxiety work from our Psychiatry and anxiety work from our Psychiatry department at Stanford has shown that department at Stanford has shown that department at Stanford has shown that and others have shown that so you want
2:26and others have shown that so you want and others have shown that so you want that big amplitude and then cruising that big amplitude and then cruising that big amplitude and then cruising down out of that um cortisol release down out of that um cortisol release down out of that um cortisol release early in the day and bright light is one early in the day and bright light is one early in the day and bright light is one way to do it that cortisol increase will way to do it that cortisol increase will way to do it that cortisol increase will provide some important activation of provide some important activation of provide some important activation of certain immune system components of certain immune system components of certain immune system components of alertness of focus you know we we don't alertness of focus you know we we don't alertness of focus you know we we don't want to treat cortisol as the enemy it's want to treat cortisol as the enemy it's want to treat cortisol as the enemy it's just about timing and amount just about timing and amount just about timing and amount right um You you mentioned the the five right um You you mentioned the the five right um You you mentioned the the five even five minutes being enough like even five minutes being enough like even five minutes being enough like early early morning bright light early early morning bright light early early morning bright light exposure and it's like is it an hour and exposure and it's like is it an hour and exposure and it's like is it an hour and a half how long is this this low anger a half how long is this this low anger a half how long is this this low anger in the in the morning how long is the in the in the morning how long is the in the in the morning how long is the low anger angles um yeah probably until low anger angles um yeah probably until low anger angles um yeah probably until it depends on time of year of course in it depends on time of year of course in it depends on time of year of course in location where you know probably until location where you know probably until location where you know probably until about you know 10:00 a.m. or so you know about you know 10:00 a.m. or so you know about you know 10:00 a.m. or so you know just if I had to put a you know a rough just if I had to put a you know a rough just if I had to put a you know a rough number out there um so if you're waking number out there um so if you're waking number out there um so if you're waking up at 9:00 just get outside if you wake up at 9:00 just get outside if you wake up at 9:00 just get outside if you wake up at 6:00 get outside if you can catch up at 6:00 get outside if you can catch up at 6:00 get outside if you can catch the sunr eyes amazing I mean that's the the sunr eyes amazing I mean that's the the sunr eyes amazing I mean that's the that's the ticket but most of us are not that's the ticket but most of us are not that's the ticket but most of us are not doing that or not because we were not doing that or not because we were not doing that or not because we were not waking up early enough necessarily but waking up early enough necessarily but waking up early enough necessarily but we get up and if you're in an apartment
2:27we get up and if you're in an apartment we get up and if you're in an apartment can you get to a place where you can see can you get to a place where you can see can you get to a place where you can see the sunrise across the Horizon but look the sunrise across the Horizon but look the sunrise across the Horizon but look if it's combined with a walk some if it's combined with a walk some if it's combined with a walk some hydration some caffeine and maybe even hydration some caffeine and maybe even hydration some caffeine and maybe even social time or time with your dog even social time or time with your dog even social time or time with your dog even better there's no reason why you can't better there's no reason why you can't better there's no reason why you can't combine these things and so um also the combine these things and so um also the combine these things and so um also the cortisol one is that like if how much cortisol one is that like if how much cortisol one is that like if how much light was do you remember how much light light was do you remember how much light light was do you remember how much light was needed in the morning quite a bit was needed in the morning quite a bit was needed in the morning quite a bit yeah this and they used artificial light yeah this and they used artificial light yeah this and they used artificial light cuz it was a laboratory situation but it cuz it was a laboratory situation but it cuz it was a laboratory situation but it was designed to mimic sunlight um I have was designed to mimic sunlight um I have was designed to mimic sunlight um I have to go look it up I'm sorry I don't to go look it up I'm sorry I don't to go look it up I'm sorry I don't recall the top of my head I don't think recall the top of my head I don't think recall the top of my head I don't think it was hours I think it was in on the it was hours I think it was in on the it was hours I think it was in on the order of minutes I'd be surprised if it order of minutes I'd be surprised if it order of minutes I'd be surprised if it was more than an hour if you get in was more than an hour if you get in was more than an hour if you get in front of one one of these 10,000 Lux front of one one of these 10,000 Lux front of one one of these 10,000 Lux light panels and I have one I bought it light panels and I have one I bought it light panels and I have one I bought it on Amazon um it sits actually on our on Amazon um it sits actually on our on Amazon um it sits actually on our Shelf said in the morning uh in the Shelf said in the morning uh in the Shelf said in the morning uh in the kitchen so I'm making coffee or kitchen so I'm making coffee or kitchen so I'm making coffee or something it's right there right from my something it's right there right from my something it's right there right from my supplements actually so I'm there I'm supplements actually so I'm there I'm supplements actually so I'm there I'm doing out my supplements and um and doing out my supplements and um and doing out my supplements and um and there it is it's about the size of a of there it is it's about the size of a of there it is it's about the size of a of a computer monitor and after about 5 10 a computer monitor and after about 5 10 a computer monitor and after about 5 10 minutes in front of that thing you kind minutes in front of that thing you kind minutes in front of that thing you kind of want to get away from it it's really of want to get away from it it's really of want to get away from it it's really bright and some people get it you know a
2:28bright and some people get it you know a bright and some people get it you know a little bit too much activation if little bit too much activation if little bit too much activation if they're in front of it for too long and they're in front of it for too long and they're in front of it for too long and then of course at night you want you then of course at night you want you then of course at night you want you don't want to be anywhere near that don't want to be anywhere near that don't want to be anywhere near that thing you want it off I have one in my thing you want it off I have one in my thing you want it off I have one in my gym as well so if I go into my gym the gym as well so if I go into my gym the gym as well so if I go into my gym the lights in my house aren't particularly lights in my house aren't particularly lights in my house aren't particularly bright uh I'll turn that thing on and so bright uh I'll turn that thing on and so bright uh I'll turn that thing on and so getting a lot of photons but of course getting a lot of photons but of course getting a lot of photons but of course nothing beats sunlight nothing beats nothing beats sunlight nothing beats nothing beats sunlight nothing beats sunlight and if you get a more morning sunlight and if you get a more morning sunlight and if you get a more morning walk in the direction of the Sun in the walk in the direction of the Sun in the walk in the direction of the Sun in the morning as the sun is rising that's I morning as the sun is rising that's I morning as the sun is rising that's I mean then then you've done something mean then then you've done something mean then then you've done something right in life right I mean or if you right in life right I mean or if you right in life right I mean or if you just want to go outside and drink your just want to go outside and drink your just want to go outside and drink your coffee out on your you know porch or coffee out on your you know porch or coffee out on your you know porch or patio or yard whatever exactly exactly patio or yard whatever exactly exactly patio or yard whatever exactly exactly exactly along those same lines with you exactly along those same lines with you exactly along those same lines with you know the the technology and viewing know the the technology and viewing know the the technology and viewing things things things um it's it's the it's the the topic of um it's it's the it's the the topic of um it's it's the it's the the topic of the short distance viewing and that's the short distance viewing and that's the short distance viewing and that's something that you're really I think something that you're really I think something that you're really I think you're pretty much I haven't heard a lot you're pretty much I haven't heard a lot you're pretty much I haven't heard a lot of people talk about this you taking of people talk about this you taking of people talk about this you taking breaks from because we're always again breaks from because we're always again breaks from because we're always again you know everything's so different than you know everything's so different than you know everything's so different than it was you know decades ago when people it was you know decades ago when people it was you know decades ago when people were not inside all the time looking at
2:29were not inside all the time looking at were not inside all the time looking at a computer um or a screen something that a computer um or a screen something that a computer um or a screen something that is very very short distance away from is very very short distance away from is very very short distance away from our our our eyes what is that doing to our vision eyes what is that doing to our vision eyes what is that doing to our vision and and and how does something like and and and how does something like and and and how does something like longdistance viewing as you call it help longdistance viewing as you call it help longdistance viewing as you call it help counter that how much do you need to do counter that how much do you need to do counter that how much do you need to do yeah it's wild the the um the rates of yeah it's wild the the um the rates of yeah it's wild the the um the rates of my Opa nearsightedness are going way up my Opa nearsightedness are going way up my Opa nearsightedness are going way up okay uh nearsightedness is not just a a okay uh nearsightedness is not just a a okay uh nearsightedness is not just a a you know a throwaway phrase basically as you know a throwaway phrase basically as you know a throwaway phrase basically as light enters the eye it you know the light enters the eye it you know the light enters the eye it you know the lens focuses that light onto the neural lens focuses that light onto the neural lens focuses that light onto the neural retina um near sidess is a change in the retina um near sidess is a change in the retina um near sidess is a change in the shape of the eyeball and and there's shape of the eyeball and and there's shape of the eyeball and and there's some other things to that have that some other things to that have that some other things to that have that image Landing um closer to the lens Too image Landing um closer to the lens Too image Landing um closer to the lens Too Close nearsightedness as opposed to Close nearsightedness as opposed to Close nearsightedness as opposed to farsightedness where it lands behind the farsightedness where it lands behind the farsightedness where it lands behind the neural retina the neur retina being the neural retina the neur retina being the neural retina the neur retina being the detector of that light so there are a detector of that light so there are a detector of that light so there are a couple different ways to manage that one couple different ways to manage that one couple different ways to manage that one is to is to is to put a lens in front of the eye an put a lens in front of the eye an put a lens in front of the eye an eyeglass or a contact that then adjusts eyeglass or a contact that then adjusts eyeglass or a contact that then adjusts the position that it it arrives to the the position that it it arrives to the the position that it it arrives to the to the neuro retina um one thing I to the neuro retina um one thing I to the neuro retina um one thing I should say is that there are some big
2:30should say is that there are some big should say is that there are some big studies many many thousands of subjects studies many many thousands of subjects studies many many thousands of subjects these are still somewhat preliminary but these are still somewhat preliminary but these are still somewhat preliminary but they're exciting enough that most they're exciting enough that most they're exciting enough that most opthalmologists who read the literature opthalmologists who read the literature opthalmologists who read the literature are into this that show that kids mostly are into this that show that kids mostly are into this that show that kids mostly that spend two hours or more of Time Out that spend two hours or more of Time Out that spend two hours or more of Time Out of Doors during the day even if they're of Doors during the day even if they're of Doors during the day even if they're on tablets or computers or phones have a on tablets or computers or phones have a on tablets or computers or phones have a lower incidence of myopia now that's not lower incidence of myopia now that's not lower incidence of myopia now that's not perfectly it's not causal right but it's perfectly it's not causal right but it's perfectly it's not causal right but it's an interesting correlation so get an interesting correlation so get an interesting correlation so get outside maybe kids should be doing some outside maybe kids should be doing some outside maybe kids should be doing some of their work outside again don't of their work outside again don't of their work outside again don't sunburn but very sunburn but very sunburn but very interesting the other thing is that interesting the other thing is that interesting the other thing is that early in development and really up until early in development and really up until early in development and really up until our let's say our mid 20s if we do a lot our let's say our mid 20s if we do a lot our let's say our mid 20s if we do a lot of close viewing the eyeball actually of close viewing the eyeball actually of close viewing the eyeball actually changes shape and lends itself to things changes shape and lends itself to things changes shape and lends itself to things like myopia there's some people think like myopia there's some people think like myopia there's some people think like how could that possibly be well like how could that possibly be well like how could that possibly be well there these classic studies mainly done there these classic studies mainly done there these classic studies mainly done in chickens um but then it carries over in chickens um but then it carries over in chickens um but then it carries over to humans as well where they would put to humans as well where they would put to humans as well where they would put um you know glasses on these animals um you know glasses on these animals um you know glasses on these animals where they would essentially um view where they would essentially um view where they would essentially um view something up close or further away or something up close or further away or something up close or further away or natural viewing and the shape of the
2:31natural viewing and the shape of the natural viewing and the shape of the eyeball lend and therefore the position eyeball lend and therefore the position eyeball lend and therefore the position that light is focused into the eye that light is focused into the eye that light is focused into the eye changes so you can create myopia by changes so you can create myopia by changes so you can create myopia by looking at things too closely for too looking at things too closely for too looking at things too closely for too long and it's probably again probably long and it's probably again probably long and it's probably again probably the case that even in adulthood if the case that even in adulthood if the case that even in adulthood if you're not myopic or nearsightedness you're not myopic or nearsightedness you're not myopic or nearsightedness nearsighted early in life that too much nearsighted early in life that too much nearsighted early in life that too much close viewing causes some changes in the close viewing causes some changes in the close viewing causes some changes in the shape of the eyeball that does this okay shape of the eyeball that does this okay shape of the eyeball that does this okay so the idea is pretty so the idea is pretty so the idea is pretty simple if you're going to be looking at simple if you're going to be looking at simple if you're going to be looking at things up close a lot which we all are things up close a lot which we all are things up close a lot which we all are nowadays you would be wise to also take nowadays you would be wise to also take nowadays you would be wise to also take a few minutes each day and try and view a few minutes each day and try and view a few minutes each day and try and view a horizon I mean how often do we do that a horizon I mean how often do we do that a horizon I mean how often do we do that now to get some Horizon viewing and or now to get some Horizon viewing and or now to get some Horizon viewing and or panoramic Vision so when we look at panoramic Vision so when we look at panoramic Vision so when we look at something so-called fiate to it we're something so-called fiate to it we're something so-called fiate to it we're like directing our our vision towards it like directing our our vision towards it like directing our our vision towards it it and if we really sharpen that to a it and if we really sharpen that to a it and if we really sharpen that to a point we're doing what's called a virgin point we're doing what's called a virgin point we're doing what's called a virgin eye movement if we were to track the eye movement if we were to track the eye movement if we were to track the movements of your eyes you notice that movements of your eyes you notice that movements of your eyes you notice that they kind Focus inward a little bit they they kind Focus inward a little bit they they kind Focus inward a little bit they really directed at something that's fine really directed at something that's fine really directed at something that's fine and good in fact it's great it's part of and good in fact it's great it's part of and good in fact it's great it's part of our primate Evolution to be able to do
2:32our primate Evolution to be able to do our primate Evolution to be able to do that as opposed to animals with that as opposed to animals with that as opposed to animals with lateralized eyes that can't really do lateralized eyes that can't really do lateralized eyes that can't really do that but it does create a state of of that but it does create a state of of that but it does create a state of of heightened internal arousal there's an heightened internal arousal there's an heightened internal arousal there's an Associated um it's really activation of Associated um it's really activation of Associated um it's really activation of locus culus that that um brain area that locus culus that that um brain area that locus culus that that um brain area that we were talked about before for release we were talked about before for release we were talked about before for release of neuro neur neurop nephrine uh nor of neuro neur neurop nephrine uh nor of neuro neur neurop nephrine uh nor epinephrine excuse me and other things epinephrine excuse me and other things epinephrine excuse me and other things but it's really creating a ramp up in but it's really creating a ramp up in but it's really creating a ramp up in attention so when you're on your phone attention so when you're on your phone attention so when you're on your phone scrolling you're fiating to this small scrolling you're fiating to this small scrolling you're fiating to this small box independent of what's in that small box independent of what's in that small box independent of what's in that small box and what you're viewing and how box and what you're viewing and how box and what you're viewing and how that's affecting you and you just that's affecting you and you just that's affecting you and you just imagine the amount of time that you're imagine the amount of time that you're imagine the amount of time that you're doing that or doing that or doing that or texting while walking to your car while texting while walking to your car while texting while walking to your car while on the bus while commuting or in any on the bus while commuting or in any on the bus while commuting or in any kind of environment whereas for the many kind of environment whereas for the many kind of environment whereas for the many many hundreds of thousands of years or many hundreds of thousands of years or many hundreds of thousands of years or more prior to that you would just walk more prior to that you would just walk more prior to that you would just walk between things and your vision would go between things and your vision would go between things and your vision would go into what's called pan Amic Vision where into what's called pan Amic Vision where into what's called pan Amic Vision where you're not really fiating or placing a you're not really fiating or placing a you're not really fiating or placing a virgin's eye move to anything in virgin's eye move to anything in virgin's eye move to anything in particular unless you're interested in particular unless you're interested in particular unless you're interested in it you're pursuing it analyzing it Etc it you're pursuing it analyzing it Etc it you're pursuing it analyzing it Etc so it can be very relaxing and
2:33so it can be very relaxing and so it can be very relaxing and beneficial to just take a walk with a beneficial to just take a walk with a beneficial to just take a walk with a couple minutes of just letting your head couple minutes of just letting your head couple minutes of just letting your head and eyes go wherever they want to go not and eyes go wherever they want to go not and eyes go wherever they want to go not directing them to any one location in directing them to any one location in directing them to any one location in particular meaning not looking at your particular meaning not looking at your particular meaning not looking at your phone right you can look at whatever you phone right you can look at whatever you phone right you can look at whatever you want as long as you want appreciate want as long as you want appreciate want as long as you want appreciate things around you appreciate people things around you appreciate people things around you appreciate people around you but going into panoramic around you but going into panoramic around you but going into panoramic Vision long-distance viewing very useful Vision long-distance viewing very useful Vision long-distance viewing very useful and if you're stuck in an indoor and if you're stuck in an indoor and if you're stuck in an indoor environment and you're finding that environment and you're finding that environment and you're finding that you're feeling anxious sometimes that's you're feeling anxious sometimes that's you're feeling anxious sometimes that's related to all sorts of things in the related to all sorts of things in the related to all sorts of things in the room room room temperature air people um you know temperature air people um you know temperature air people um you know agitation whatever but if you want to agitation whatever but if you want to agitation whatever but if you want to calm down I've talked a lot about calm down I've talked a lot about calm down I've talked a lot about physiological size to inhales followed physiological size to inhales followed physiological size to inhales followed by a long exhale fastest way I'm aware by a long exhale fastest way I'm aware by a long exhale fastest way I'm aware of to shift your nervous system to a of to shift your nervous system to a of to shift your nervous system to a more par Paras sympathic parasympathetic more par Paras sympathic parasympathetic more par Paras sympathic parasympathetic mode excuse me and calm down but also mode excuse me and calm down but also mode excuse me and calm down but also you can dilate your gaze even without you can dilate your gaze even without you can dilate your gaze even without moving your head or eyes you don't have moving your head or eyes you don't have moving your head or eyes you don't have to be rigid with your header eyes and to be rigid with your header eyes and to be rigid with your header eyes and you know fix them in place but you can you know fix them in place but you can you know fix them in place but you can just try and view the ceiling the walls just try and view the ceiling the walls just try and view the ceiling the walls the floor and everything around you in the floor and everything around you in the floor and everything around you in sort of more of a global Manner and that
2:34sort of more of a global Manner and that sort of more of a global Manner and that releases this you know intense what I'm releases this you know intense what I'm releases this you know intense what I'm calling foliation or virgin's eye calling foliation or virgin's eye calling foliation or virgin's eye movements it's a little bit of a trick movements it's a little bit of a trick movements it's a little bit of a trick it's kind of nice because um it's it's kind of nice because um it's it's kind of nice because um it's completely covert you know whereas completely covert you know whereas completely covert you know whereas physiological size too deep inhales physiological size too deep inhales physiological size too deep inhales through the the nose followed by a long through the the nose followed by a long through the the nose followed by a long exhale through the mouth a little bit exhale through the mouth a little bit exhale through the mouth a little bit harder to hide if you're trying to you harder to hide if you're trying to you harder to hide if you're trying to you know um cloak uh what whatever level of know um cloak uh what whatever level of know um cloak uh what whatever level of anxiety one might be feeling so if I anxiety one might be feeling so if I anxiety one might be feeling so if I right now right now right now went you know you know given that me it went you know you know given that me it went you know you know given that me it might not be so strange but it's a might not be so strange but it's a might not be so strange but it's a little weird to do in a meeting but you little weird to do in a meeting but you little weird to do in a meeting but you can just kind of relax yourself through can just kind of relax yourself through can just kind of relax yourself through going from Virgin to panoramic Vision going from Virgin to panoramic Vision going from Virgin to panoramic Vision but even better would be get outside but even better would be get outside but even better would be get outside view a horizon let your eyes sort of not view a horizon let your eyes sort of not view a horizon let your eyes sort of not sort of let them relax so that you're sort of let them relax so that you're sort of let them relax so that you're not looking at one particular thing for not looking at one particular thing for not looking at one particular thing for too long and you'll notice undoubtedly a too long and you'll notice undoubtedly a too long and you'll notice undoubtedly a pretty major State shift to a state of pretty major State shift to a state of pretty major State shift to a state of more calm if people are in let's say an more calm if people are in let's say an more calm if people are in let's say an office building or something and can't office building or something and can't office building or something and can't is this is this a scenario where they is this is this a scenario where they is this is this a scenario where they can look out the window window yes okay can look out the window window yes okay can look out the window window yes okay yes this would be a good case for for yes this would be a good case for for yes this would be a good case for for looking out the window and for students
2:35looking out the window and for students looking out the window and for students who were looking out the window in class who were looking out the window in class who were looking out the window in class you can just say I was trying to catch you can just say I was trying to catch you can just say I was trying to catch some Anxiety Relief and then maybe your some Anxiety Relief and then maybe your some Anxiety Relief and then maybe your teacher will let you get away with it teacher will let you get away with it teacher will let you get away with it speaking of anxiety I I this I'm trying speaking of anxiety I I this I'm trying speaking of anxiety I I this I'm trying to be mindful of your time and you have to be mindful of your time and you have to be mindful of your time and you have to go soon I just want to try to dive to go soon I just want to try to dive to go soon I just want to try to dive into a one last topic sure I'm enjoying into a one last topic sure I'm enjoying into a one last topic sure I'm enjoying this alcohol okay you know I mean it's a this alcohol okay you know I mean it's a this alcohol okay you know I mean it's a it's a topic that you really I think it's a topic that you really I think it's a topic that you really I think have changed the public perspective of have changed the public perspective of have changed the public perspective of you know in terms of Public Health um you know in terms of Public Health um you know in terms of Public Health um with respect to the effects of alcohol with respect to the effects of alcohol with respect to the effects of alcohol particularly on the brain and um you I particularly on the brain and um you I particularly on the brain and um you I don't think there's any controversy don't think there's any controversy don't think there's any controversy about heavy alcohol use and how it's about heavy alcohol use and how it's about heavy alcohol use and how it's it's negative for for every organ that it's negative for for every organ that it's negative for for every organ that we have right it's it's it's just very we have right it's it's it's just very we have right it's it's it's just very bad there's been what there's been a lot bad there's been what there's been a lot bad there's been what there's been a lot of I would say conflicting you know of I would say conflicting you know of I would say conflicting you know ideas and conflicting research and just ideas and conflicting research and just ideas and conflicting research and just disagreement with respect to what would disagreement with respect to what would disagreement with respect to what would be considered maybe perhaps moderate be considered maybe perhaps moderate be considered maybe perhaps moderate alcohol which many many people do one alcohol which many many people do one alcohol which many many people do one glass of wine a night or something with glass of wine a night or something with glass of wine a night or something with dinner um or even less than that would
2:36dinner um or even less than that would dinner um or even less than that would be Light alcohol consumption so maybe be Light alcohol consumption so maybe be Light alcohol consumption so maybe you know less than two maybe two or you know less than two maybe two or you know less than two maybe two or three less than three drinks three or three less than three drinks three or three less than three drinks three or less per week per week per week yes less per week per week per week yes less per week per week per week yes um first first of all I want to talk um first first of all I want to talk um first first of all I want to talk about anxiety that triggered me but but about anxiety that triggered me but but about anxiety that triggered me but but but I want to ask you about someone but I want to ask you about someone but I want to ask you about someone that's doing that's doing that's doing let's say moderate drinking so they're let's say moderate drinking so they're let's say moderate drinking so they're doing you know the glass of wine a night doing you know the glass of wine a night doing you know the glass of wine a night what's that what's that doing to parts what's that what's that doing to parts what's that what's that doing to parts of their brain in terms of um the of their brain in terms of um the of their brain in terms of um the structure and the function yeah so first structure and the function yeah so first structure and the function yeah so first of all um do as you wish but know what of all um do as you wish but know what of all um do as you wish but know what you're doing that's my stance I am not you're doing that's my stance I am not you're doing that's my stance I am not anti-alcohol I'm not an alcoholic I anti-alcohol I'm not an alcoholic I anti-alcohol I'm not an alcoholic I don't particularly like alcohol so I can don't particularly like alcohol so I can don't particularly like alcohol so I can drink or not drink I don't tend to drink drink or not drink I don't tend to drink drink or not drink I don't tend to drink I might have a sip of alcohol well it's I might have a sip of alcohol well it's I might have a sip of alcohol well it's been a long time since I've had a sip of been a long time since I've had a sip of been a long time since I've had a sip of alcohol but alcohol but alcohol but you know there are certain white you know there are certain white you know there are certain white Tequilas I've enjoyed and like Tequilas I've enjoyed and like Tequilas I've enjoyed and like occasionally like you know one of those occasionally like you know one of those occasionally like you know one of those and you know or a vodan soda or and you know or a vodan soda or and you know or a vodan soda or something you know so just to be clear something you know so just to be clear something you know so just to be clear like I'm not anti-alcohol my read of the
2:37like I'm not anti-alcohol my read of the like I'm not anti-alcohol my read of the data are as you pointed out that yes data are as you pointed out that yes data are as you pointed out that yes alcohol is a poison but many things are alcohol is a poison but many things are alcohol is a poison but many things are a poison and the dose determines the a poison and the dose determines the a poison and the dose determines the poison it seems poison it seems poison it seems that that that our threshold for what we call moderate our threshold for what we call moderate our threshold for what we call moderate or low amounts of or low amounts of or low amounts of drinking um drinking um drinking um is Shifting nowadays I don't know if is Shifting nowadays I don't know if is Shifting nowadays I don't know if that had something to do with the that had something to do with the that had something to do with the alcohol episode that we did but here alcohol episode that we did but here alcohol episode that we did but here here's what I do know the data say here's what I do know the data say here's what I do know the data say that zero to two drinks per that zero to two drinks per that zero to two drinks per week you're probably fine provided week you're probably fine provided week you're probably fine provided you're not an alcoholic and you're of you're not an alcoholic and you're of you're not an alcoholic and you're of age okay and you're not pregnant or age okay and you're not pregnant or age okay and you're not pregnant or dealing with some other um uh something dealing with some other um uh something dealing with some other um uh something that would make it a case where you that would make it a case where you that would make it a case where you wouldn't want to drink at all zero to wouldn't want to drink at all zero to wouldn't want to drink at all zero to two drinks per week now what happens two drinks per week now what happens two drinks per week now what happens past two drinks per week past two drinks per week past two drinks per week depends on a lot of other contextual depends on a lot of other contextual depends on a lot of other contextual factors okay first of all how well or factors okay first of all how well or factors okay first of all how well or poorly you metabolize alcohol how much poorly you metabolize alcohol how much poorly you metabolize alcohol how much alcohol dehydrogenase you tend to alcohol dehydrogenase you tend to alcohol dehydrogenase you tend to express why do I say that well a lot of
2:38express why do I say that well a lot of express why do I say that well a lot of the so-called negative effects of the so-called negative effects of the so-called negative effects of alcohol are due to disruptions in sleep alcohol are due to disruptions in sleep alcohol are due to disruptions in sleep and gut microbiome so those are indirect and gut microbiome so those are indirect and gut microbiome so those are indirect right alcohol is changing for the worst right alcohol is changing for the worst right alcohol is changing for the worst the gut microbiome and sleep patterns we the gut microbiome and sleep patterns we the gut microbiome and sleep patterns we know this people that track their sleep know this people that track their sleep know this people that track their sleep they have one drink and they're like they have one drink and they're like they have one drink and they're like holy cow my sleep is so much worse not holy cow my sleep is so much worse not holy cow my sleep is so much worse not just sleep score but amount of REM sleep just sleep score but amount of REM sleep just sleep score but amount of REM sleep amount of Deep Sleep amount of Deep Sleep amount of Deep Sleep Etc is that the direct or indirect cause Etc is that the direct or indirect cause Etc is that the direct or indirect cause of any kind of disruption in brain of any kind of disruption in brain of any kind of disruption in brain structure or in neuronal health we don't structure or in neuronal health we don't structure or in neuronal health we don't know but what these larger scale studies know but what these larger scale studies know but what these larger scale studies show is that if you look at the amount show is that if you look at the amount show is that if you look at the amount of gray matter thinning which of gray matter thinning which of gray matter thinning which occurs with age occurs with age occurs with age regardless gray matter being the neurons regardless gray matter being the neurons regardless gray matter being the neurons in the brain white matter being the in the brain white matter being the in the brain white matter being the fiber tracts um the axons and myelin in fiber tracts um the axons and myelin in fiber tracts um the axons and myelin in the brain is how they're imaged so they the brain is how they're imaged so they the brain is how they're imaged so they show up it's gray or white the amount of show up it's gray or white the amount of show up it's gray or white the amount of gray matter thinning starts gray matter thinning starts gray matter thinning starts to increase as you get out past two to increase as you get out past two to increase as you get out past two drinks per week cons now is it drinks per week cons now is it drinks per week cons now is it significant enough that people should be
2:39significant enough that people should be significant enough that people should be concerned about cognitive decline as a concerned about cognitive decline as a concerned about cognitive decline as a consequence of three drinks per week consequence of three drinks per week consequence of three drinks per week induced gratter thinning probably not induced gratter thinning probably not induced gratter thinning probably not you know so then should we set the you know so then should we set the you know so then should we set the Threshold at three drinks per week or Threshold at three drinks per week or Threshold at three drinks per week or four drinks per week I don't know and four drinks per week I don't know and four drinks per week I don't know and I'm not here to say that one way or the I'm not here to say that one way or the I'm not here to say that one way or the other what I'm saying is my read of the other what I'm saying is my read of the other what I'm saying is my read of the data and I know there are people that data and I know there are people that data and I know there are people that disagree with me disagree with me disagree with me is that zero is better than any and that is that zero is better than any and that is that zero is better than any and that I think I'm told has brought great I think I'm told has brought great I think I'm told has brought great relief to a number of people that didn't relief to a number of people that didn't relief to a number of people that didn't want to drink but that actually were want to drink but that actually were want to drink but that actually were drinking red wine specifically to try drinking red wine specifically to try drinking red wine specifically to try and get some quote unquote health and get some quote unquote health and get some quote unquote health benefits it also brought great relief to benefits it also brought great relief to benefits it also brought great relief to a number of people because they tell me a number of people because they tell me a number of people because they tell me that did not like drinking they didn't that did not like drinking they didn't that did not like drinking they didn't like the way drinking made them feel like the way drinking made them feel like the way drinking made them feel either while they were under the either while they were under the either while they were under the influence of it or maybe taste or just influence of it or maybe taste or just influence of it or maybe taste or just general malays the next day or due to general malays the next day or due to general malays the next day or due to disruption and sleep I don't really know disruption and sleep I don't really know disruption and sleep I don't really know the the reasons but for people who don't the the reasons but for people who don't the the reasons but for people who don't like drinking or who don't want to drink like drinking or who don't want to drink like drinking or who don't want to drink I think there's ample evidence that zero I think there's ample evidence that zero I think there's ample evidence that zero is great that you don't need to drink
2:40is great that you don't need to drink is great that you don't need to drink okay it might seem like a kind of silly okay it might seem like a kind of silly okay it might seem like a kind of silly statement but I think a good number of statement but I think a good number of statement but I think a good number of people kind of doing it because they people kind of doing it because they people kind of doing it because they thought they were health benefits now to thought they were health benefits now to thought they were health benefits now to be fair most people were drinking and if be fair most people were drinking and if be fair most people were drinking and if they were talking about the health they were talking about the health they were talking about the health benefits because they like the way benefits because they like the way benefits because they like the way alcohol makes them feel and to me it's alcohol makes them feel and to me it's alcohol makes them feel and to me it's clear that if you care very much about clear that if you care very much about your brain your brain your brain that more than two drinks per week on a that more than two drinks per week on a that more than two drinks per week on a consistent basis probably not a good consistent basis probably not a good consistent basis probably not a good idea now are there exceptions to that idea now are there exceptions to that idea now are there exceptions to that sure are there people who you know sure are there people who you know sure are there people who you know everyone says well I had a grandparent everyone says well I had a grandparent everyone says well I had a grandparent and they're lived to be 98 and they're and they're lived to be 98 and they're and they're lived to be 98 and they're super sharp and they drink you know a super sharp and they drink you know a super sharp and they drink you know a shot of vodka every night great like shot of vodka every night great like shot of vodka every night great like great I just say well how much better great I just say well how much better great I just say well how much better would they have been had they not but I would they have been had they not but I would they have been had they not but I also understand you need to live life also understand you need to live life also understand you need to live life and for many people alcohol is one route and for many people alcohol is one route and for many people alcohol is one route by which they enjoy life more because of by which they enjoy life more because of by which they enjoy life more because of its relaxing effects and that's its relaxing effects and that's its relaxing effects and that's important to note that anxiety is bad important to note that anxiety is bad important to note that anxiety is bad anxiety that disrupts sleep is dad so anxiety that disrupts sleep is dad so anxiety that disrupts sleep is dad so many people will drink to kind of many people will drink to kind of many people will drink to kind of provide a a um a segue from the the day provide a a um a segue from the the day provide a a um a segue from the the day the work day to the evening and they the work day to the evening and they the work day to the evening and they find it helps them calm down and sleep find it helps them calm down and sleep find it helps them calm down and sleep better but we know it disrupts your
2:41better but we know it disrupts your better but we know it disrupts your sleep would it be better to not drink at sleep would it be better to not drink at sleep would it be better to not drink at all probably but I want to be respectful all probably but I want to be respectful all probably but I want to be respectful of that scenario as well if we look at of that scenario as well if we look at of that scenario as well if we look at four drinks per week five drinks per four drinks per week five drinks per four drinks per week five drinks per week let's say a drink a night seven week let's say a drink a night seven week let's say a drink a night seven drinks per week I just don't see where drinks per week I just don't see where drinks per week I just don't see where the debate is to me you look at the Ray the debate is to me you look at the Ray the debate is to me you look at the Ray matter thinning you look at some of the matter thinning you look at some of the matter thinning you look at some of the other metrics on gut microbiome you look other metrics on gut microbiome you look other metrics on gut microbiome you look at the disruption in sleep and again at the disruption in sleep and again at the disruption in sleep and again people should do as they wish but know people should do as they wish but know people should do as they wish but know what they're doing and it's just oh so what they're doing and it's just oh so what they're doing and it's just oh so clear that it's not good for people and clear that it's not good for people and clear that it's not good for people and that they're doing at least some degree that they're doing at least some degree that they're doing at least some degree of harm now there's also the business of of harm now there's also the business of of harm now there's also the business of offsetting harm I always say listen if offsetting harm I always say listen if offsetting harm I always say listen if you're the kind of person who wants to you're the kind of person who wants to you're the kind of person who wants to have a drink every night you know be my have a drink every night you know be my have a drink every night you know be my guest if if that serves you well but you guest if if that serves you well but you guest if if that serves you well but you might be wise to also do some things might be wise to also do some things might be wise to also do some things that offset some of the for instance gut that offset some of the for instance gut that offset some of the for instance gut microbiome dis ruption perhaps pay a bit microbiome dis ruption perhaps pay a bit microbiome dis ruption perhaps pay a bit more attention to consuming one to four more attention to consuming one to four more attention to consuming one to four servings of low sugar fermented foods servings of low sugar fermented foods servings of low sugar fermented foods per day to really feed the gut per day to really feed the gut per day to really feed the gut microbiome maybe be extra thoughtful microbiome maybe be extra thoughtful microbiome maybe be extra thoughtful about a consistent sleep schedule maybe
2:42about a consistent sleep schedule maybe about a consistent sleep schedule maybe be extra thoughtful about a number of be extra thoughtful about a number of be extra thoughtful about a number of other things to offset whatever negative other things to offset whatever negative other things to offset whatever negative effects are sure to be introduced by effects are sure to be introduced by effects are sure to be introduced by that kind of regimen so zero is best two that kind of regimen so zero is best two that kind of regimen so zero is best two is probably fine 3 4 5 6 7 is where is probably fine 3 4 5 6 7 is where is probably fine 3 4 5 6 7 is where you're are you going to shorten your you're are you going to shorten your you're are you going to shorten your life by a significant amount well Prov life by a significant amount well Prov life by a significant amount well Prov you don't drive while you're while you don't drive while you're while you don't drive while you're while you're drunk um probably not are you you're drunk um probably not are you you're drunk um probably not are you going to be disrupting your health going to be disrupting your health going to be disrupting your health probably mainly indirect effects through probably mainly indirect effects through probably mainly indirect effects through disrupted sleep or gut microbiome try disrupted sleep or gut microbiome try disrupted sleep or gut microbiome try and offset those effects but then once and offset those effects but then once and offset those effects but then once you get past you know a drink per night you get past you know a drink per night you get past you know a drink per night which many many people are consuming which many many people are consuming which many many people are consuming then I think there's General agreement then I think there's General agreement then I think there's General agreement higher incidence of cancers especially higher incidence of cancers especially higher incidence of cancers especially in women higher incidence of cancers in women higher incidence of cancers in women higher incidence of cancers generally and a number of other things generally and a number of other things generally and a number of other things related to immune system disruption so related to immune system disruption so related to immune system disruption so and on and on and you know you know just and on and on and you know you know just and on and on and you know you know just as a final statement I don't have as a final statement I don't have as a final statement I don't have anything against alcohol the alcohol is anything against alcohol the alcohol is anything against alcohol the alcohol is you know I understand it's part of the you know I understand it's part of the you know I understand it's part of the fabric of most every culture and that fabric of most every culture and that fabric of most every culture and that says something but to my mind alcohol if
2:43says something but to my mind alcohol if says something but to my mind alcohol if you don't like it or you care about your you don't like it or you care about your you don't like it or you care about your health more than you care about alcohol health more than you care about alcohol health more than you care about alcohol I I say you know don't drink it's pure I I say you know don't drink it's pure I I say you know don't drink it's pure and and and simple what does alcohol do to our simple what does alcohol do to our simple what does alcohol do to our serotonin system dopamine system I mean serotonin system dopamine system I mean serotonin system dopamine system I mean while we're drinking while we're while we're drinking while we're while we're drinking while we're consuming it you feel good I don't know consuming it you feel good I don't know consuming it you feel good I don't know you know exactly what's happening at you know exactly what's happening at you know exactly what's happening at that moment but also long term like that moment but also long term like that moment but also long term like after you're you're you're done with the after you're you're you're done with the after you're you're you're done with the alcohol like what what happens to that alcohol like what what happens to that alcohol like what what happens to that serotonin system lots of animal data not serotonin system lots of animal data not serotonin system lots of animal data not a lot of human data here's what we do a lot of human data here's what we do a lot of human data here's what we do know most people experience the um what know most people experience the um what know most people experience the um what they you know subjectively report as they you know subjectively report as they you know subjectively report as pleasant feelings of alcohol as pleasant feelings of alcohol as pleasant feelings of alcohol as disruption of inhibition relaxation Etc disruption of inhibition relaxation Etc disruption of inhibition relaxation Etc that's mainly through the Gaba system that's mainly through the Gaba system that's mainly through the Gaba system and there are a couple other systems as and there are a couple other systems as and there are a couple other systems as well well well there is a subset of people for whom for there is a subset of people for whom for there is a subset of people for whom for whatever reason it seems they get more whatever reason it seems they get more whatever reason it seems they get more activation of the dopamine system from activation of the dopamine system from activation of the dopamine system from alcohol these people may be and very
2:44alcohol these people may be and very alcohol these people may be and very likely are more prone to becoming likely are more prone to becoming likely are more prone to becoming alcoholics one of the strongest alcoholics one of the strongest alcoholics one of the strongest determinants of whether or not somebody determinants of whether or not somebody determinants of whether or not somebody becomes an alcoholic is the age at which becomes an alcoholic is the age at which becomes an alcoholic is the age at which they took their first drink so very very they took their first drink so very very they took their first drink so very very young higher likelihood they'll become young higher likelihood they'll become young higher likelihood they'll become an alcoholic and so on um but there does an alcoholic and so on um but there does an alcoholic and so on um but there does to be some genetic predisposition or to be some genetic predisposition or to be some genetic predisposition or some other predisposition for folks that some other predisposition for folks that some other predisposition for folks that drink and um seem to be very energized drink and um seem to be very energized drink and um seem to be very energized by alcohol there's kind of a a by alcohol there's kind of a a by alcohol there's kind of a a coordinate release of dopamine from the coordinate release of dopamine from the coordinate release of dopamine from the dopamine system that's not always dopamine system that's not always dopamine system that's not always observed in other people but again there observed in other people but again there observed in other people but again there aren't a ton of human studies on this aren't a ton of human studies on this aren't a ton of human studies on this but there's some what I think logical but there's some what I think logical but there's some what I think logical speculation that can be had that those speculation that can be had that those speculation that can be had that those are likely going to be the people that are likely going to be the people that are likely going to be the people that are drinking and staying up drinking are drinking and staying up drinking are drinking and staying up drinking throughout the night I knew these people throughout the night I knew these people throughout the night I knew these people in college it was kind of interesting to in college it was kind of interesting to in college it was kind of interesting to see that some you would just like drink see that some you would just like drink see that some you would just like drink and drink and drink drink and they're and drink and drink drink and they're and drink and drink drink and they're upright and they're clear you're upright and they're clear you're upright and they're clear you're thinking gosh is their tolerance very thinking gosh is their tolerance very thinking gosh is their tolerance very high well surely that's the case but it high well surely that's the case but it high well surely that's the case but it also seemed as if alcohol was affecting also seemed as if alcohol was affecting also seemed as if alcohol was affecting them differently um and then of course them differently um and then of course them differently um and then of course there's the whole notion of blackout there's the whole notion of blackout there's the whole notion of blackout drunk where people are awake and alert
2:45drunk where people are awake and alert drunk where people are awake and alert and they don't realize what's happening and they don't realize what's happening and they don't realize what's happening and that's super scary so the dopamine and that's super scary so the dopamine and that's super scary so the dopamine system is involved and perhaps um so the system is involved and perhaps um so the system is involved and perhaps um so the dopamine system is involved at a low dopamine system is involved at a low dopamine system is involved at a low level we can say almost certainly in level we can say almost certainly in level we can say almost certainly in everybody when it comes to alcohol that everybody when it comes to alcohol that everybody when it comes to alcohol that has a reinforcing properties especially has a reinforcing properties especially has a reinforcing properties especially if people like the feeling they like the if people like the feeling they like the if people like the feeling they like the circumstances again it's that contextual circumstances again it's that contextual circumstances again it's that contextual learning about what happens when they learning about what happens when they learning about what happens when they drink a number of people proven by the drink a number of people proven by the drink a number of people proven by the way that if somebody gets really really way that if somebody gets really really way that if somebody gets really really sick after drinking a certain type of sick after drinking a certain type of sick after drinking a certain type of cocktail they're very likely to be cocktail they're very likely to be cocktail they're very likely to be averse to that cocktail forever after um averse to that cocktail forever after um averse to that cocktail forever after um there's the subset of individuals maybe there's the subset of individuals maybe there's the subset of individuals maybe a little less than 10% or so that a little less than 10% or so that a little less than 10% or so that perhaps experiences heightened increases perhaps experiences heightened increases perhaps experiences heightened increases in dopamine release in response to in dopamine release in response to in dopamine release in response to alcohol that other people don't so alcohol that other people don't so alcohol that other people don't so that's interesting and certainly needs that's interesting and certainly needs that's interesting and certainly needs more study and then you asked about the more study and then you asked about the more study and then you asked about the serotonin system serotonin system serotonin system here I I have to apologize I'm I'm I'm here I I have to apologize I'm I'm I'm here I I have to apologize I'm I'm I'm not aware of the direct relationship not aware of the direct relationship not aware of the direct relationship between alcohol consumption and the between alcohol consumption and the between alcohol consumption and the serotonin system but I am aware that serotonin system but I am aware that serotonin system but I am aware that there's this phenomenon of of
2:46there's this phenomenon of of there's this phenomenon of of anxiety where people yes achieve some anxiety where people yes achieve some anxiety where people yes achieve some relief from anxiety while they're under relief from anxiety while they're under relief from anxiety while they're under the effects of alcohol but that the next the effects of alcohol but that the next the effects of alcohol but that the next day the part of The Hangover effect day the part of The Hangover effect day the part of The Hangover effect seems to be a elevation in anxiety seems to be a elevation in anxiety seems to be a elevation in anxiety so-called anxiety is that directly due so-called anxiety is that directly due so-called anxiety is that directly due to depletion of or some disruption the to depletion of or some disruption the to depletion of or some disruption the serotonin system I don't know um seems serotonin system I don't know um seems serotonin system I don't know um seems likely one of one of the um you know one likely one of one of the um you know one likely one of one of the um you know one of the phrases that we have to keep in of the phrases that we have to keep in of the phrases that we have to keep in mind there was a a professor of mine mind there was a a professor of mine mind there was a a professor of mine where I was a graduate student he used where I was a graduate student he used where I was a graduate student he used to say you know a drug um is a substance to say you know a drug um is a substance to say you know a drug um is a substance that when injected into an animal or that when injected into an animal or that when injected into an animal or consumed by a human produces a consumed by a human produces a consumed by a human produces a scientific paper what I think he was scientific paper what I think he was scientific paper what I think he was saying is that you know when it comes to saying is that you know when it comes to saying is that you know when it comes to the neuromodulators there's a lot of the neuromodulators there's a lot of the neuromodulators there's a lot of interaction so that I I have to imagine interaction so that I I have to imagine interaction so that I I have to imagine that if you took two groups of people that if you took two groups of people that if you took two groups of people and you gave one group um and you gave one group um and you gave one group um alcohol and and or you you titrate and alcohol and and or you you titrate and alcohol and and or you you titrate and you give you know some high alcohol you give you know some high alcohol you give you know some high alcohol moderate alcohol low alcohol and then moderate alcohol low alcohol and then moderate alcohol low alcohol and then you looked at circulating serotonin I you looked at circulating serotonin I you looked at circulating serotonin I wouldn't be at all surprised to see wouldn't be at all surprised to see wouldn't be at all surprised to see differences the question is whether or differences the question is whether or differences the question is whether or not those differences can be tacked
2:47not those differences can be tacked not those differences can be tacked directly to any kind of subjective directly to any kind of subjective directly to any kind of subjective change so there I have to um admit um change so there I have to um admit um change so there I have to um admit um being naive and so I'm sure someone will being naive and so I'm sure someone will being naive and so I'm sure someone will tell us in the comments that you know tell us in the comments that you know tell us in the comments that you know what uh alcohol is doing to the what uh alcohol is doing to the what uh alcohol is doing to the serotonin system um you know serotonin I serotonin system um you know serotonin I serotonin system um you know serotonin I think for a long time um was looked at think for a long time um was looked at think for a long time um was looked at only as kind of a calming neuromodulator only as kind of a calming neuromodulator only as kind of a calming neuromodulator or something like that and I think we or something like that and I think we or something like that and I think we now appreciate that it's doing a lot of now appreciate that it's doing a lot of now appreciate that it's doing a lot of different things in a lot of different different things in a lot of different different things in a lot of different brain structures not unlike dopamine but brain structures not unlike dopamine but brain structures not unlike dopamine but perhaps even more so you know because perhaps even more so you know because perhaps even more so you know because you see uh evidence out there for you see uh evidence out there for you see uh evidence out there for serotonin and resilience but also serotonin and resilience but also serotonin and resilience but also serotonin and um pair bonding I mean serotonin and um pair bonding I mean serotonin and um pair bonding I mean it's involved in so many things and so it's involved in so many things and so it's involved in so many things and so what we need to ask is what circuits in what we need to ask is what circuits in what we need to ask is what circuits in the brain is serotonin modulating and the brain is serotonin modulating and the brain is serotonin modulating and certainly it's modulating a lot of them certainly it's modulating a lot of them certainly it's modulating a lot of them and in many ways in a much more and in many ways in a much more and in many ways in a much more widespread manner than is dopamine widespread manner than is dopamine widespread manner than is dopamine well I've come to the I'm I've read a well I've come to the I'm I've read a well I've come to the I'm I've read a lot of literature with alcohol as well lot of literature with alcohol as well lot of literature with alcohol as well and come to the same conclusion as you and come to the same conclusion as you and come to the same conclusion as you where uh I mean it's not like it's good where uh I mean it's not like it's good where uh I mean it's not like it's good for you I I I I haven't been couldn't for you I I I I haven't been couldn't for you I I I I haven't been couldn't convince myself that drinking alcohol is
2:48convince myself that drinking alcohol is convince myself that drinking alcohol is actually good for you but I think I actually good for you but I think I actually good for you but I think I found that two drinks a week doesn't found that two drinks a week doesn't found that two drinks a week doesn't seem to have a lot of the negative seem to have a lot of the negative seem to have a lot of the negative effects of brain atrophy and cancer and effects of brain atrophy and cancer and effects of brain atrophy and cancer and other things and great I'm glad we agree other things and great I'm glad we agree other things and great I'm glad we agree I'm glad we agree I mean not that if we I'm glad we agree I mean not that if we I'm glad we agree I mean not that if we disagreed it would be a problem but I I disagreed it would be a problem but I I disagreed it would be a problem but I I you know consensus is is great even um you know consensus is is great even um you know consensus is is great even um if it's a small group consensus I think if it's a small group consensus I think if it's a small group consensus I think attitudes towards alcohol are changing attitudes towards alcohol are changing attitudes towards alcohol are changing um and as our attitudes towards cannabis um and as our attitudes towards cannabis um and as our attitudes towards cannabis you know has certain health benefits and you know has certain health benefits and you know has certain health benefits and medicinal benefits and also can be medicinal benefits and also can be medicinal benefits and also can be problematic for certain people and I problematic for certain people and I problematic for certain people and I think more understanding of genetic and think more understanding of genetic and think more understanding of genetic and other predispositions to alcoholism to other predispositions to alcoholism to other predispositions to alcoholism to psychosis to things like that are going psychosis to things like that are going psychosis to things like that are going to be really valuable as we go forward to be really valuable as we go forward to be really valuable as we go forward we just really don't know what to look we just really don't know what to look we just really don't know what to look for yet but again it's been a while may for yet but again it's been a while may for yet but again it's been a while may maybe I'll have a drink at some point maybe I'll have a drink at some point maybe I'll have a drink at some point there's a there's a dopamine uh there's a there's a dopamine uh there's a there's a dopamine uh connection to being predisposed to being connection to being predisposed to being connection to being predisposed to being an alcoholic so there I I don't remember an alcoholic so there I I don't remember an alcoholic so there I I don't remember if it was which one it was um if one of if it was which one it was um if one of if it was which one it was um if one of one of the dopamine receptor ones or one of the dopamine receptor ones or one of the dopamine receptor ones or another one there's a there's a there's
2:49another one there's a there's a there's another one there's a there's a there's a handful of them I would say five that a handful of them I would say five that a handful of them I would say five that are known that are known that are known that affect likelihood be be affect likelihood be be affect likelihood be be ADHD um to have substance abuse ADHD um to have substance abuse ADHD um to have substance abuse disorders alcoholism I mean all this disorders alcoholism I mean all this disorders alcoholism I mean all this makes sense right everything that we makes sense right everything that we makes sense right everything that we talking about um to to being able to talking about um to to being able to talking about um to to being able to like deal with stress and anxiety and so like deal with stress and anxiety and so like deal with stress and anxiety and so I I'm very interested in that I I'm very interested in that I I'm very interested in that interaction with the genetics and also interaction with the genetics and also interaction with the genetics and also like okay well if you're if you have like okay well if you're if you have like okay well if you're if you have ADHD so these things that we've been ADHD so these things that we've been ADHD so these things that we've been talking about in the podcast in the talking about in the podcast in the talking about in the podcast in the episode um you know not limiting the episode um you know not limiting the episode um you know not limiting the phone to like you know one hour a day phone to like you know one hour a day phone to like you know one hour a day you know and and doing the the the nsdr you know and and doing the the the nsdr you know and and doing the the the nsdr the nonsleep deep rest and the exercise the nonsleep deep rest and the exercise the nonsleep deep rest and the exercise and the cold shower cold plunge if you and the cold shower cold plunge if you and the cold shower cold plunge if you have it and all these things um can help have it and all these things um can help have it and all these things um can help even people with ADHD yeah they tap into even people with ADHD yeah they tap into even people with ADHD yeah they tap into the dopamine and norepinephrine system the dopamine and norepinephrine system the dopamine and norepinephrine system and I also want to acknowledge that a and I also want to acknowledge that a and I also want to acknowledge that a lot of the prescription drugs for ADHD lot of the prescription drugs for ADHD lot of the prescription drugs for ADHD can really help people children and can really help people children and can really help people children and adults I did two episodes on dopamine adults I did two episodes on dopamine adults I did two episodes on dopamine and focus and ADHD the first one was
2:50and focus and ADHD the first one was and focus and ADHD the first one was mainly focused on behavioral nutritional mainly focused on behavioral nutritional mainly focused on behavioral nutritional supplementation based approaches and I supplementation based approaches and I supplementation based approaches and I would say about 50% of the comments were would say about 50% of the comments were would say about 50% of the comments were um love love love this thank you the um love love love this thank you the um love love love this thank you the other 50% were I hate this what about other 50% were I hate this what about other 50% were I hate this what about all the drugs that are really valuable all the drugs that are really valuable all the drugs that are really valuable for it so we did a second episode as we for it so we did a second episode as we for it so we did a second episode as we were originally planning to do on adol were originally planning to do on adol were originally planning to do on adol viance rlin um dioxine which is actually viance rlin um dioxine which is actually viance rlin um dioxine which is actually methamphetamine prescription methamphetamine prescription methamphetamine prescription methamphetamine you know these things methamphetamine you know these things methamphetamine you know these things are prescribed to um try and help people are prescribed to um try and help people are prescribed to um try and help people with ADHD and other attentional issues with ADHD and other attentional issues with ADHD and other attentional issues and the response was exactly inverse 50% and the response was exactly inverse 50% and the response was exactly inverse 50% of people saying this is fantastic thank of people saying this is fantastic thank of people saying this is fantastic thank you parents Thanking us for doing that you parents Thanking us for doing that you parents Thanking us for doing that because a lot of them were living in because a lot of them were living in because a lot of them were living in kind of quiet Shame about the fact that kind of quiet Shame about the fact that kind of quiet Shame about the fact that they were giving these drugs to their they were giving these drugs to their they were giving these drugs to their kids but observing that their kids were kids but observing that their kids were kids but observing that their kids were feeling better and doing better and feeling better and doing better and feeling better and doing better and Performing better and so and then the Performing better and so and then the Performing better and so and then the other 50% we're saying this is terrible other 50% we're saying this is terrible other 50% we're saying this is terrible we're putting kids on speed and so again we're putting kids on speed and so again we're putting kids on speed and so again I don't come to any of this with any I don't come to any of this with any I don't come to any of this with any kind of um judgment I think it's highly kind of um judgment I think it's highly kind of um judgment I think it's highly individual but what it all comes back individual but what it all comes back individual but what it all comes back down to are these neurom modulators
2:51down to are these neurom modulators down to are these neurom modulators right and the various circuits involved right and the various circuits involved right and the various circuits involved it's the catacol amines in both cases it's the catacol amines in both cases it's the catacol amines in both cases whether or not it's a coal plunge or whether or not it's a coal plunge or whether or not it's a coal plunge or whether or not it's um Aderall it's not whether or not it's um Aderall it's not whether or not it's um Aderall it's not the same route to it it's not the same the same route to it it's not the same the same route to it it's not the same level it's not the same predictability level it's not the same predictability level it's not the same predictability so I'm not trying to equate those two so I'm not trying to equate those two so I'm not trying to equate those two things but they all funnel into the same things but they all funnel into the same things but they all funnel into the same mechanis IC System so we shouldn't be mechanis IC System so we shouldn't be mechanis IC System so we shouldn't be surprised at all that yes there are surprised at all that yes there are surprised at all that yes there are behaviors there are things to avoid behaviors there are things to avoid behaviors there are things to avoid there are prescription drugs and yes there are prescription drugs and yes there are prescription drugs and yes there are supplement based compounds there are supplement based compounds there are supplement based compounds that tap into these Pathways Muna purans that tap into these Pathways Muna purans that tap into these Pathways Muna purans for instance what do you think of that for instance what do you think of that for instance what do you think of that like the well it's lopa lopa is a like the well it's lopa lopa is a like the well it's lopa lopa is a precursor to dopamine and so if people precursor to dopamine and so if people precursor to dopamine and so if people now are it's true supplements are not as now are it's true supplements are not as now are it's true supplements are not as regulated as we both know um sourcing regulated as we both know um sourcing regulated as we both know um sourcing becomes an issue um I've tried Muna becomes an issue um I've tried Muna becomes an issue um I've tried Muna purines I don't have ADHD but I've tried purines I don't have ADHD but I've tried purines I don't have ADHD but I've tried it it gives you a clear shift I mean it it gives you a clear shift I mean it it gives you a clear shift I mean you're taking lopa it produced a pretty you're taking lopa it produced a pretty you're taking lopa it produced a pretty big crash for me afterwards and I'm like big crash for me afterwards and I'm like big crash for me afterwards and I'm like I never want to try that again um but I I never want to try that again um but I I never want to try that again um but I think people are very individual I think think people are very individual I think think people are very individual I think getting the Baseline things right sleep
2:52getting the Baseline things right sleep getting the Baseline things right sleep stress modulation exercise nutrition stress modulation exercise nutrition stress modulation exercise nutrition look there's absolutely no way that that look there's absolutely no way that that look there's absolutely no way that that can't serve a person young or old for can't serve a person young or old for can't serve a person young or old for the better and so that should be the the better and so that should be the the better and so that should be the place to start but in many situations place to start but in many situations place to start but in many situations where there's a clinical urgency to get where there's a clinical urgency to get where there's a clinical urgency to get a kid focusing so that they don't fall a kid focusing so that they don't fall a kid focusing so that they don't fall behind in school school I you know I'm behind in school school I you know I'm behind in school school I you know I'm of the mind that yeah it makes perfect of the mind that yeah it makes perfect of the mind that yeah it makes perfect sense for parents to safely you know sense for parents to safely you know sense for parents to safely you know explore some of the pharmaceutical explore some of the pharmaceutical explore some of the pharmaceutical approaches but if they don't work they approaches but if they don't work they approaches but if they don't work they also need other places to turn and while also need other places to turn and while also need other places to turn and while they're doing that exploration of what's they're doing that exploration of what's they're doing that exploration of what's going to really work best for this kid going to really work best for this kid going to really work best for this kid or this adult one would hope they're or this adult one would hope they're or this adult one would hope they're doing all the things to bolster that doing all the things to bolster that doing all the things to bolster that system that ketamine system with great system that ketamine system with great system that ketamine system with great sleep nstr maybe coal plunges exercise sleep nstr maybe coal plunges exercise sleep nstr maybe coal plunges exercise nutrition Etc so that the whole system nutrition Etc so that the whole system nutrition Etc so that the whole system doesn't crash while they're doing it and doesn't crash while they're doing it and doesn't crash while they're doing it and I you know that's really what I believe I you know that's really what I believe I you know that's really what I believe I can't speak for you but I I really I can't speak for you but I I really I can't speak for you but I I really think that your work and my work is think that your work and my work is think that your work and my work is really what we're trying to do is trying really what we're trying to do is trying really what we're trying to do is trying to get all of that information out to to get all of that information out to to get all of that information out to people for people to look at evaluate people for people to look at evaluate people for people to look at evaluate and make decisions um for the best
2:53and make decisions um for the best and make decisions um for the best situation in their hands and um does situation in their hands and um does situation in their hands and um does that mean that certain drugs are being that mean that certain drugs are being that mean that certain drugs are being overprescribed no they are in some cases overprescribed no they are in some cases overprescribed no they are in some cases and in some cases they're being and in some cases they're being and in some cases they're being underprescribed and somebody's really underprescribed and somebody's really underprescribed and somebody's really tortured by their inability to focus and tortured by their inability to focus and tortured by their inability to focus and they could do well with some low dose of they could do well with some low dose of they could do well with some low dose of some particular drug and then we say some particular drug and then we say some particular drug and then we say well are we creation creating excuse me well are we creation creating excuse me well are we creation creating excuse me a generation of addicts they going to a generation of addicts they going to a generation of addicts they going to depend on these things maybe but maybe depend on these things maybe but maybe depend on these things maybe but maybe it's also encouraging the kind of it's also encouraging the kind of it's also encouraging the kind of neuroplasticity and the intentional neuroplasticity and the intentional neuroplasticity and the intentional systems that's going to allow them to be systems that's going to allow them to be systems that's going to allow them to be able to focus without these compounds able to focus without these compounds able to focus without these compounds yeah I think my concern is is the who is yeah I think my concern is is the who is yeah I think my concern is is the who is is diagnosing it like I read a study is diagnosing it like I read a study is diagnosing it like I read a study when I was trying to decide like okay when I was trying to decide like okay when I was trying to decide like okay like my son was born in like it was like like my son was born in like it was like like my son was born in like it was like in the summer right and so it's you're in the summer right and so it's you're in the summer right and so it's you're all parents are kind of faced with this all parents are kind of faced with this all parents are kind of faced with this do I start when do I start kindergarten do I start when do I start kindergarten do I start when do I start kindergarten right so I was stting September baby so right so I was stting September baby so right so I was stting September baby so I'm always the youngest in my class I'm always the youngest in my class I'm always the youngest in my class right and so I that was exactly what I right and so I that was exactly what I right and so I that was exactly what I was looking into and I was looking into was looking into and I was looking into was looking into and I was looking into you know reading what's out there in you know reading what's out there in you know reading what's out there in publish data and I read a couple of publish data and I read a couple of publish data and I read a couple of studies where teachers so children that
2:54studies where teachers so children that studies where teachers so children that were me boys that were born in July and were me boys that were born in July and were me boys that were born in July and August were three times more likely to August were three times more likely to August were three times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD oh wow than boys be diagnosed with ADHD oh wow than boys be diagnosed with ADHD oh wow than boys that were not born in July and August that were not born in July and August that were not born in July and August okay so they were the youngest they were okay so they were the youngest they were okay so they were the youngest they were going to be the youngest in their class going to be the youngest in their class going to be the youngest in their class there's nothing about being born in July there's nothing about being born in July there's nothing about being born in July and August that makes a child and August that makes a child and August that makes a child susceptible ADHD let's be real right so susceptible ADHD let's be real right so susceptible ADHD let's be real right so it has to be the the early struggle with it has to be the the early struggle with it has to be the the early struggle with keeping up with cognitively cognitively keeping up with cognitively cognitively keeping up with cognitively cognitively more mature teachers are comparing the more mature teachers are comparing the more mature teachers are comparing the younger kids School Readiness for boys younger kids School Readiness for boys younger kids School Readiness for boys is not the same as a girl for one and is not the same as a girl for one and is not the same as a girl for one and then on top of that you add youth where then on top of that you add youth where then on top of that you add youth where they're younger and so you have a child they're younger and so you have a child they're younger and so you have a child that can't sit still and focus and then that can't sit still and focus and then that can't sit still and focus and then and is distracting and fidgety and all and is distracting and fidgety and all and is distracting and fidgety and all those things and then all of a sudden those things and then all of a sudden those things and then all of a sudden you have this I think your child has you have this I think your child has you have this I think your child has ADHD and then you go down this sort of ADHD and then you go down this sort of ADHD and then you go down this sort of path and so you know my my concern with path and so you know my my concern with path and so you know my my concern with that one and N number that I cited and I that one and N number that I cited and I that one and N number that I cited and I was like one and N that's nuts like Is was like one and N that's nuts like Is was like one and N that's nuts like Is that real or like are we just like are
2:55that real or like are we just like are that real or like are we just like are do we have a system where we're putting do we have a system where we're putting do we have a system where we're putting kids in this environment that they're kids in this environment that they're kids in this environment that they're not meant to be in in the way at least not meant to be in in the way at least not meant to be in in the way at least in the way that we're doing it and and in the way that we're doing it and and in the way that we're doing it and and then now all of a sudden we're creating then now all of a sudden we're creating then now all of a sudden we're creating this situation we're like oh well some this situation we're like oh well some this situation we're like oh well some kids these girls can sit nicely and kids these girls can sit nicely and kids these girls can sit nicely and follow directions it's really easy and follow directions it's really easy and follow directions it's really easy and they can sit for hours and hours and they can sit for hours and hours and they can sit for hours and hours and hours but you know what a lot of kids hours but you know what a lot of kids hours but you know what a lot of kids can't do that do they have ADHD I don't can't do that do they have ADHD I don't can't do that do they have ADHD I don't know maybe they don't maybe they just know maybe they don't maybe they just know maybe they don't maybe they just need to get out and move around more need to get out and move around more need to get out and move around more like maybe some kids do like absolutely like maybe some kids do like absolutely like maybe some kids do like absolutely there I it's definitely you know there's there I it's definitely you know there's there I it's definitely you know there's a and there's a spectrum right it's not a and there's a spectrum right it's not a and there's a spectrum right it's not just you know it's a spectrum like but just you know it's a spectrum like but just you know it's a spectrum like but yeah I think I think I my my take on yeah I think I think I my my take on yeah I think I think I my my take on you're talking about people's feedback you're talking about people's feedback you're talking about people's feedback and the 50% are like oh yeah so and I and the 50% are like oh yeah so and I and the 50% are like oh yeah so and I know exactly what you're mean but I I do know exactly what you're mean but I I do know exactly what you're mean but I I do think part of it is the the diagnosis think part of it is the the diagnosis think part of it is the the diagnosis and do they really have it DHD and what and do they really have it DHD and what and do they really have it DHD and what like maybe we all kind of have it like maybe we all kind of have it like maybe we all kind of have it somewhat because of our Modern Life now somewhat because of our Modern Life now somewhat because of our Modern Life now right or the capacity for it I mean what right or the capacity for it I mean what right or the capacity for it I mean what you're really talking about in that age you're really talking about in that age you're really talking about in that age difference in the late you know the July difference in the late you know the July difference in the late you know the July August um kids is that you know you look
2:56August um kids is that you know you look August um kids is that you know you look at a group of young kids and some are at a group of young kids and some are at a group of young kids and some are moving spontaneously and looking around moving spontaneously and looking around moving spontaneously and looking around a lot and some can sit still and it's um a lot and some can sit still and it's um a lot and some can sit still and it's um top- down suppression from the forebrain top- down suppression from the forebrain top- down suppression from the forebrain you know the prefrontal cortex does many you know the prefrontal cortex does many you know the prefrontal cortex does many many things but one of its main roles as many things but one of its main roles as many things but one of its main roles as was described to me by a really was described to me by a really was described to me by a really brilliant neurosurgeon actually the brilliant neurosurgeon actually the brilliant neurosurgeon actually the neurosurgeon at neurolink McDougall is neurosurgeon at neurolink McDougall is neurosurgeon at neurolink McDougall is the prefrontal cortex job is to send a the prefrontal cortex job is to send a the prefrontal cortex job is to send a signal to the other circuits of the signal to the other circuits of the signal to the other circuits of the brain to say sh to quiet that down and brain to say sh to quiet that down and brain to say sh to quiet that down and that comes online meaning it matures that comes online meaning it matures that comes online meaning it matures very slowly in the early years of life very slowly in the early years of life very slowly in the early years of life it's when kids learn to defer it's when kids learn to defer it's when kids learn to defer gratification like marshmallow test you gratification like marshmallow test you gratification like marshmallow test you know it's when there are other things know it's when there are other things know it's when there are other things too of course it's when kids learn too of course it's when kids learn too of course it's when kids learn contextual um rules when to say please contextual um rules when to say please contextual um rules when to say please and thank you when to run around and and thank you when to run around and and thank you when to run around and have you know be crazy and you know and have you know be crazy and you know and have you know be crazy and you know and when to try and sit still um and kids when to try and sit still um and kids when to try and sit still um and kids are developing that at different rates are developing that at different rates are developing that at different rates it's developing at different rates in it's developing at different rates in it's developing at different rates in them now we know one thing about ADH them now we know one thing about ADH them now we know one thing about ADH which is interesting at least one thing
2:57which is interesting at least one thing which is interesting at least one thing which is that it does not mean a total which is that it does not mean a total which is that it does not mean a total lack of capacity to focus because lack of capacity to focus because lack of capacity to focus because oftentimes a kid with ADHD you put them oftentimes a kid with ADHD you put them oftentimes a kid with ADHD you put them in front of something they really enjoy in front of something they really enjoy in front of something they really enjoy like a puzzle or a video game or a like a puzzle or a video game or a like a puzzle or a video game or a particular doll game or whatever and particular doll game or whatever and particular doll game or whatever and they are wrapped with attention and that they are wrapped with attention and that they are wrapped with attention and that tells us right there that the circuits tells us right there that the circuits tells us right there that the circuits work but that the threshold for their work but that the threshold for their work but that the threshold for their activation is somehow altered and it's activation is somehow altered and it's activation is somehow altered and it's clearly engaged in one context but less clearly engaged in one context but less clearly engaged in one context but less easily engaged in other context now easily engaged in other context now easily engaged in other context now let's face it we're all like that if let's face it we're all like that if let's face it we're all like that if something's really exciting and something's really exciting and something's really exciting and interesting to you it fully engages you interesting to you it fully engages you interesting to you it fully engages you if it doesn't it's not going to and I do if it doesn't it's not going to and I do if it doesn't it's not going to and I do think that these circuits even once they think that these circuits even once they think that these circuits even once they develop they can be unpeeled a bit develop they can be unpeeled a bit develop they can be unpeeled a bit through lack of reading lack of focus through lack of reading lack of focus through lack of reading lack of focus lack of you know time in conversation lack of you know time in conversation lack of you know time in conversation like this directed conversation I often like this directed conversation I often like this directed conversation I often feel that podcasting whether or not it's feel that podcasting whether or not it's feel that podcasting whether or not it's solo episode or an episode like this one solo episode or an episode like this one solo episode or an episode like this one of the great pleasures of it is that you of the great pleasures of it is that you of the great pleasures of it is that you know I'm we're engaging face to face in know I'm we're engaging face to face in know I'm we're engaging face to face in a conversation we haven't looked at our a conversation we haven't looked at our a conversation we haven't looked at our phones once that's exceedingly rare if phones once that's exceedingly rare if phones once that's exceedingly rare if we were at a restaurant or cafe or out we were at a restaurant or cafe or out we were at a restaurant or cafe or out in the world so I think we can all train
2:58in the world so I think we can all train in the world so I think we can all train up and we train down these circuits and up and we train down these circuits and up and we train down these circuits and um much of what we call schooling early um much of what we call schooling early um much of what we call schooling early in life is training these in life is training these in life is training these circuits some kids can benefit from circuits some kids can benefit from circuits some kids can benefit from pharmacological assistance um some pharmacological assistance um some pharmacological assistance um some likely don't um some adults can benefit likely don't um some adults can benefit likely don't um some adults can benefit from pharmacologic um assistance in fact from pharmacologic um assistance in fact from pharmacologic um assistance in fact it I've talked to a number of it I've talked to a number of it I've talked to a number of psychiatrists that have said that psychiatrists that have said that psychiatrists that have said that oftentimes adults who um they don't oftentimes adults who um they don't oftentimes adults who um they don't abuse but they heavily use stimulants abuse but they heavily use stimulants abuse but they heavily use stimulants like caffeine and they require a lot of like caffeine and they require a lot of like caffeine and they require a lot of caffeine in order to focus might be a caffeine in order to focus might be a caffeine in order to focus might be a low-grade ADHD I'm not diagnosing anyone low-grade ADHD I'm not diagnosing anyone low-grade ADHD I'm not diagnosing anyone I'm not a clinician but I find that I'm not a clinician but I find that I'm not a clinician but I find that interesting are they seeking the same interesting are they seeking the same interesting are they seeking the same catacol amine stimulation that one would catacol amine stimulation that one would catacol amine stimulation that one would get from let's say lowd dose modafanil get from let's say lowd dose modafanil get from let's say lowd dose modafanil or from viance or adderal and in which or from viance or adderal and in which or from viance or adderal and in which case which one would you go with would case which one would you go with would case which one would you go with would you say maybe a little niced or you say maybe a little niced or you say maybe a little niced or something like that again I'm moving something like that again I'm moving something like that again I'm moving away from the nicotine thing I think away from the nicotine thing I think away from the nicotine thing I think that experiment's over for me because um that experiment's over for me because um that experiment's over for me because um of the concern about the Vaso of the concern about the Vaso of the concern about the Vaso constriction so to be clear I'm not constriction so to be clear I'm not constriction so to be clear I'm not going to stay with it but um you know going to stay with it but um you know going to stay with it but um you know all the behaviors all the supplements
2:59all the behaviors all the supplements all the behaviors all the supplements all the nutrition all the prescription all the nutrition all the prescription all the nutrition all the prescription drugs they they are not halfhazard they drugs they they are not halfhazard they drugs they they are not halfhazard they Center back to these core mechanisms Center back to these core mechanisms Center back to these core mechanisms today we've mainly been talking about today we've mainly been talking about today we've mainly been talking about the catac Coline system dopamine in the catac Coline system dopamine in the catac Coline system dopamine in particular but these other systems as particular but these other systems as particular but these other systems as well and so it all makes perfect sense well and so it all makes perfect sense well and so it all makes perfect sense why these a DHD why these a DHD why these a DHD like patterns emerge and it also makes like patterns emerge and it also makes like patterns emerge and it also makes sense why certain treatments would work sense why certain treatments would work sense why certain treatments would work and what I love is that the behavioral and what I love is that the behavioral and what I love is that the behavioral stuff is quite potent in its ability to stuff is quite potent in its ability to stuff is quite potent in its ability to tap into these systems is it the same as tap into these systems is it the same as tap into these systems is it the same as taking X number of milligrams of Aderall taking X number of milligrams of Aderall taking X number of milligrams of Aderall or vents no but it certainly gives or vents no but it certainly gives or vents no but it certainly gives people at least an additional line of people at least an additional line of people at least an additional line of Entry to explore and given that these Entry to explore and given that these Entry to explore and given that these things are low cost or zero cost things are low cost or zero cost things are low cost or zero cost typically zero cost they's just a little typically zero cost they's just a little typically zero cost they's just a little bit of time investment and that they bit of time investment and that they bit of time investment and that they also do other healthy things for us I also do other healthy things for us I also do other healthy things for us I think you know I think it's great and I think you know I think it's great and I think you know I think it's great and I love how the health space is emerging love how the health space is emerging love how the health space is emerging around this I think the conversation is around this I think the conversation is around this I think the conversation is going to get better not worse for all of going to get better not worse for all of going to get better not worse for all of this stuff as long as we're not on our this stuff as long as we're not on our this stuff as long as we're not on our phones too damn
3:00phones too damn phones too damn much speaking of healthy habits you much speaking of healthy habits you much speaking of healthy habits you talked about your your workout routine talked about your your workout routine talked about your your workout routine I'd love to sort of end on your your I'd love to sort of end on your your I'd love to sort of end on your your your healthy habits that you do maybe your healthy habits that you do maybe your healthy habits that you do maybe daily weekly you know your diet daily weekly you know your diet daily weekly you know your diet supplements you talked about your supplements you talked about your supplements you talked about your workout sleep yeah so um I try and get workout sleep yeah so um I try and get workout sleep yeah so um I try and get to bed by about about 10 maybe 11:00 to bed by about about 10 maybe 11:00 to bed by about about 10 maybe 11:00 p.m. I don't always succeed um I wake up p.m. I don't always succeed um I wake up p.m. I don't always succeed um I wake up around you know 6:00 a.m. or so if I around you know 6:00 a.m. or so if I around you know 6:00 a.m. or so if I don't sleep enough or I don't feel don't sleep enough or I don't feel don't sleep enough or I don't feel rested I'll do a 10 to 20 minute maybe rested I'll do a 10 to 20 minute maybe rested I'll do a 10 to 20 minute maybe 30 minute nstr or yoga Nedra I get up I 30 minute nstr or yoga Nedra I get up I 30 minute nstr or yoga Nedra I get up I like to hydrate uh first thing I try and like to hydrate uh first thing I try and like to hydrate uh first thing I try and do just drink 16 to 32 ounces of water I do just drink 16 to 32 ounces of water I do just drink 16 to 32 ounces of water I like just hydrate in the morning um get like just hydrate in the morning um get like just hydrate in the morning um get outside and get some sunlight if I can't outside and get some sunlight if I can't outside and get some sunlight if I can't get the sunlight I get in front of that get the sunlight I get in front of that get the sunlight I get in front of that 10,000 Lux light um I prefer to workout 10,000 Lux light um I prefer to workout 10,000 Lux light um I prefer to workout early in the day in which case I'll early in the day in which case I'll early in the day in which case I'll drink caffeine if it's a resistance drink caffeine if it's a resistance drink caffeine if it's a resistance training workout that for me that's training workout that for me that's training workout that for me that's yamate or coffee or both sometimes um yamate or coffee or both sometimes um yamate or coffee or both sometimes um I'll just tell you my workout schedule I'll just tell you my workout schedule I'll just tell you my workout schedule is really easy to hit on same thing I've
3:01is really easy to hit on same thing I've is really easy to hit on same thing I've been doing roughly for 30 years although been doing roughly for 30 years although been doing roughly for 30 years although sometimes I've been less you know um sometimes I've been less you know um sometimes I've been less you know um less focused on it and let it lapse a less focused on it and let it lapse a less focused on it and let it lapse a bit here and there so first day of the bit here and there so first day of the bit here and there so first day of the week for me it falls on a Monday but it week for me it falls on a Monday but it week for me it falls on a Monday but it could be any day I train my legs calvs could be any day I train my legs calvs could be any day I train my legs calvs hamstrings quads I'm a big believer in hamstrings quads I'm a big believer in hamstrings quads I'm a big believer in glute ham raises hack squats um leg glute ham raises hack squats um leg glute ham raises hack squats um leg curls leg extensions calf raises just curls leg extensions calf raises just curls leg extensions calf raises just keep the lower body strong keep the keep the lower body strong keep the keep the lower body strong keep the posterior chain strong there are a bunch posterior chain strong there are a bunch posterior chain strong there are a bunch of different ways to do this one could of different ways to do this one could of different ways to do this one could do it with kettle bell swings or do it with kettle bell swings or do it with kettle bell swings or deadlifts but those are the things that deadlifts but those are the things that deadlifts but those are the things that work well for me and that I can work well for me and that I can work well for me and that I can consistently add load or other ways of consistently add load or other ways of consistently add load or other ways of increasing intensity without getting increasing intensity without getting increasing intensity without getting hurt okay knock on wood um the whole hurt okay knock on wood um the whole hurt okay knock on wood um the whole thing takes about an hour next day um is thing takes about an hour next day um is thing takes about an hour next day um is a rest day typically after leg day and a rest day typically after leg day and a rest day typically after leg day and I'll try and do I don't always do but I'll try and do I don't always do but I'll try and do I don't always do but some deliberate heat and deliberate cold some deliberate heat and deliberate cold some deliberate heat and deliberate cold exposure in Ideal World it's 20 minutes exposure in Ideal World it's 20 minutes exposure in Ideal World it's 20 minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold 20 of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold 20 of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold 20 minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold 20 minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of 20 minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of 20 minutes of sauna 3 to 5 minutes of cold and yes I finish with a warm shower cold and yes I finish with a warm shower cold and yes I finish with a warm shower because I'm a human being um and I like because I'm a human being um and I like because I'm a human being um and I like that and I will listen to podcast or
3:02that and I will listen to podcast or that and I will listen to podcast or books or something while I do it and books or something while I do it and books or something while I do it and helps my recovery it's also just thermal helps my recovery it's also just thermal helps my recovery it's also just thermal training it has all the benefits of training it has all the benefits of training it has all the benefits of sauna and cold and I like to do it on sauna and cold and I like to do it on sauna and cold and I like to do it on that day the next day I'll do typically that day the next day I'll do typically that day the next day I'll do typically a run um a 25 or 30 minute run at a kind a run um a 25 or 30 minute run at a kind a run um a 25 or 30 minute run at a kind of faster pace of faster pace of faster pace um so where I'm you know breathing hard um so where I'm you know breathing hard um so where I'm you know breathing hard for most of it but it's not all out for most of it but it's not all out for most of it but it's not all out maybe 85% of effort and um that's it the maybe 85% of effort and um that's it the maybe 85% of effort and um that's it the next day I train um my torso um I know a next day I train um my torso um I know a next day I train um my torso um I know a lot of people roll their eyes they be lot of people roll their eyes they be lot of people roll their eyes they be like what are you talking about how do like what are you talking about how do like what are you talking about how do you I I do I do some overhead pressing you I I do I do some overhead pressing you I I do I do some overhead pressing some dips some um pull-ups or chinups some dips some um pull-ups or chinups some dips some um pull-ups or chinups and some rowing and then I do some and some rowing and then I do some and some rowing and then I do some abdominal work and I I train my neck um abdominal work and I I train my neck um abdominal work and I I train my neck um because I it's an important part of the because I it's an important part of the because I it's an important part of the the you know structure of the upper body the you know structure of the upper body the you know structure of the upper body to keep the head stable and not get text to keep the head stable and not get text to keep the head stable and not get text neck and things like that I don't train neck and things like that I don't train neck and things like that I don't train it heavy but I train my neck and I do it heavy but I train my neck and I do it heavy but I train my neck and I do make sure I do things like rear delts um make sure I do things like rear delts um make sure I do things like rear delts um I I really am trying to emphasize you I I really am trying to emphasize you I I really am trying to emphasize you know outward you know external rotation know outward you know external rotation know outward you know external rotation of a limb so we're not you know kind of
3:03of a limb so we're not you know kind of of a limb so we're not you know kind of like hunched over like this and heavy in like hunched over like this and heavy in like hunched over like this and heavy in the traps you know just upright posture the traps you know just upright posture the traps you know just upright posture those kinds of things and then the next those kinds of things and then the next those kinds of things and then the next day um the only workout is about 10 day um the only workout is about 10 day um the only workout is about 10 minutes long it's that 10c hard cycling minutes long it's that 10c hard cycling minutes long it's that 10c hard cycling on the salt bike 20 second rest 10 20 10 on the salt bike 20 second rest 10 20 10 on the salt bike 20 second rest 10 20 10 20 for eight rounds that's it V2 Max 20 for eight rounds that's it V2 Max 20 for eight rounds that's it V2 Max Saturdays um another short resistance Saturdays um another short resistance Saturdays um another short resistance training workout so three total for the training workout so three total for the training workout so three total for the week and then it's you know biceps week and then it's you know biceps week and then it's you know biceps triceps calves Little Neck work triceps calves Little Neck work triceps calves Little Neck work abdominal work it's kind of just small abdominal work it's kind of just small abdominal work it's kind of just small body part stuff and then on Sunday which body part stuff and then on Sunday which body part stuff and then on Sunday which for me falls on a Sunday I try and do for me falls on a Sunday I try and do for me falls on a Sunday I try and do some long Ruck or hike often socially some long Ruck or hike often socially some long Ruck or hike often socially put on a backpack with some weight or if put on a backpack with some weight or if put on a backpack with some weight or if I'm by myself I'll do you know a 60 to I'm by myself I'll do you know a 60 to I'm by myself I'll do you know a 60 to 90minut jog or something of that sort 90minut jog or something of that sort 90minut jog or something of that sort maybe hike part of it and listen to maybe hike part of it and listen to maybe hike part of it and listen to music or just let my thoughts go so what music or just let my thoughts go so what music or just let my thoughts go so what it boils down to is six days of training it boils down to is six days of training it boils down to is six days of training per week three resistance training per week three resistance training per week three resistance training sessions one longer slow run one sessions one longer slow run one sessions one longer slow run one moderate one and one short one the total moderate one and one short one the total moderate one and one short one the total amount of time is actually quite low amount of time is actually quite low amount of time is actually quite low when you when you think about it um and
3:04when you when you think about it um and when you when you think about it um and then there's that rest day where I may then there's that rest day where I may then there's that rest day where I may or may not do the the heat and cold this or may not do the the heat and cold this or may not do the the heat and cold this schedule I could micro dissect but what schedule I could micro dissect but what schedule I could micro dissect but what it ends up happening with this schedule it ends up happening with this schedule it ends up happening with this schedule is because for instance I'll train my is because for instance I'll train my is because for instance I'll train my legs on Monday directly but I'm doing legs on Monday directly but I'm doing legs on Monday directly but I'm doing the assault bike for hit on Friday so my the assault bike for hit on Friday so my the assault bike for hit on Friday so my legs sort of get targeted twice per week legs sort of get targeted twice per week legs sort of get targeted twice per week once directly once indirectly so I don't once directly once indirectly so I don't once directly once indirectly so I don't have to worry about too little frequency have to worry about too little frequency have to worry about too little frequency of stimulation for things like strength of stimulation for things like strength of stimulation for things like strength and hypertrophy although I'm not trying and hypertrophy although I'm not trying and hypertrophy although I'm not trying to grow anymore for maintaining muscle to grow anymore for maintaining muscle to grow anymore for maintaining muscle similarly I'll train my torso on that similarly I'll train my torso on that similarly I'll train my torso on that one day during the middle of the week one day during the middle of the week one day during the middle of the week but you're using your arms for that and but you're using your arms for that and but you're using your arms for that and then you train your arms directly then you train your arms directly then you train your arms directly another day and on the arm day you know another day and on the arm day you know another day and on the arm day you know I'm doing some dip like things and so I'm doing some dip like things and so I'm doing some dip like things and so you're also hitting your torso muscle so you're also hitting your torso muscle so you're also hitting your torso muscle so I never worry that it's not frequent I never worry that it's not frequent I never worry that it's not frequent enough I find that getting into the gym enough I find that getting into the gym enough I find that getting into the gym more than three days per week doing more than three days per week doing more than three days per week doing resistance training more than three days resistance training more than three days resistance training more than three days per week I start to lose my motivation per week I start to lose my motivation per week I start to lose my motivation for it but I like to be really focused for it but I like to be really focused for it but I like to be really focused and targeted when I'm there and I love and targeted when I'm there and I love and targeted when I'm there and I love long runs I love moderate runs and I long runs I love moderate runs and I long runs I love moderate runs and I love the hit workout so I get to do a love the hit workout so I get to do a love the hit workout so I get to do a little bit of everything and I really little bit of everything and I really little bit of everything and I really want to emphasize that because I'm not a
3:05want to emphasize that because I'm not a want to emphasize that because I'm not a professional athlete or even an amateur professional athlete or even an amateur professional athlete or even an amateur athlete the whole basis of this thing is athlete the whole basis of this thing is athlete the whole basis of this thing is to be able to do anything meaning I can to be able to do anything meaning I can to be able to do anything meaning I can go for a long hike or backpack at the go for a long hike or backpack at the go for a long hike or backpack at the during the summer with a heavy pack no during the summer with a heavy pack no during the summer with a heavy pack no problem I can Sprint for the airplane no problem I can Sprint for the airplane no problem I can Sprint for the airplane no problem I can lift things without problem I can lift things without problem I can lift things without hurting myself no problem provid I'm hurting myself no problem provid I'm hurting myself no problem provid I'm smart about it I'm not trying to be the smart about it I'm not trying to be the smart about it I'm not trying to be the strongest the biggest or the fastest or strongest the biggest or the fastest or strongest the biggest or the fastest or the one with the most endurance just the one with the most endurance just the one with the most endurance just kind of all around life and none of kind of all around life and none of kind of all around life and none of these workouts is longer than an hour these workouts is longer than an hour these workouts is longer than an hour and in many cases they're 12 minutes or and in many cases they're 12 minutes or and in many cases they're 12 minutes or 30 minutes okay um the daily routine is 30 minutes okay um the daily routine is 30 minutes okay um the daily routine is pretty much consistent and I should say pretty much consistent and I should say pretty much consistent and I should say that schedule if I travel things might that schedule if I travel things might that schedule if I travel things might slide a bit I might move day one next to slide a bit I might move day one next to slide a bit I might move day one next to day two I move things around but I'm day two I move things around but I'm day two I move things around but I'm careful to never weight train more than careful to never weight train more than careful to never weight train more than two days in a row I personally don't two days in a row I personally don't two days in a row I personally don't recover I don't like doing that okay recover I don't like doing that okay recover I don't like doing that okay nutrition I just try and nutrition I just try and nutrition I just try and emphasize nonprocess processed or emphasize nonprocess processed or emphasize nonprocess processed or minimally processed foods I'm not really minimally processed foods I'm not really minimally processed foods I'm not really hungry until about 11:00 a.m. and then I hungry until about 11:00 a.m. and then I hungry until about 11:00 a.m. and then I like some meat some berries some rice or like some meat some berries some rice or like some meat some berries some rice or oatmeal sometimes and and some vegetable oatmeal sometimes and and some vegetable oatmeal sometimes and and some vegetable I'm not low carb in the afternoon I'll
3:06I'm not low carb in the afternoon I'll I'm not low carb in the afternoon I'll generally have a snack maybe a protein generally have a snack maybe a protein generally have a snack maybe a protein drink some nuts you know I do eat you drink some nuts you know I do eat you drink some nuts you know I do eat you know those Maui Nei jerky sticks or know those Maui Nei jerky sticks or know those Maui Nei jerky sticks or thing of bone broth or something it's thing of bone broth or something it's thing of bone broth or something it's not a promotion it's just a fact and not a promotion it's just a fact and not a promotion it's just a fact and then for dinner I like I tend to then for dinner I like I tend to then for dinner I like I tend to emphasize less protein for me that works emphasize less protein for me that works emphasize less protein for me that works this runs counter to what everyone says this runs counter to what everyone says this runs counter to what everyone says but I like more vegetables pasta rice but I like more vegetables pasta rice but I like more vegetables pasta rice risotto occasionally I'll go out for a risotto occasionally I'll go out for a risotto occasionally I'll go out for a big steak or something like that but big steak or something like that but big steak or something like that but generally the heavier on the starches generally the heavier on the starches generally the heavier on the starches not heavy but heavier on the starches not heavy but heavier on the starches not heavy but heavier on the starches relatively and vegetables and then I'll relatively and vegetables and then I'll relatively and vegetables and then I'll a couple hours before sleep ideally but a couple hours before sleep ideally but a couple hours before sleep ideally but sometimes I'll finish dinner and sometimes I'll finish dinner and sometimes I'll finish dinner and collapse you know it's just life um I do collapse you know it's just life um I do collapse you know it's just life um I do find I sleep better if I allow a few find I sleep better if I allow a few find I sleep better if I allow a few hours before sleep in terms of hours before sleep in terms of hours before sleep in terms of um stress modulation and things like um stress modulation and things like um stress modulation and things like that I do deploy the physiological sigh that I do deploy the physiological sigh that I do deploy the physiological sigh which sounds very technical but inhales which sounds very technical but inhales which sounds very technical but inhales through the through the through the nose followed by a long exhale to lungs nose followed by a long exhale to lungs nose followed by a long exhale to lungs empty I try and do that anytime I feel empty I try and do that anytime I feel empty I try and do that anytime I feel that my stress is too high my lab that my stress is too high my lab that my stress is too high my lab published a clinical trial and cell published a clinical trial and cell published a clinical trial and cell reports medicine in collaboration with
3:07reports medicine in collaboration with reports medicine in collaboration with David Spiegel's laboratory at Stanford David Spiegel's laboratory at Stanford David Spiegel's laboratory at Stanford showing that five minutes a day of showing that five minutes a day of showing that five minutes a day of breath work of cyclic sighing so inhale breath work of cyclic sighing so inhale breath work of cyclic sighing so inhale inhale exhale both through the both inhale exhale both through the both inhale exhale both through the both inhales through the nose inhale inhale inhales through the nose inhale inhale inhales through the nose inhale inhale exhale done as a dedicated practice for exhale done as a dedicated practice for exhale done as a dedicated practice for 5 minutes a day led to some interesting 5 minutes a day led to some interesting 5 minutes a day led to some interesting changes positive changes in reductions changes positive changes in reductions changes positive changes in reductions in resting heart rate reductions in in in resting heart rate reductions in in in resting heart rate reductions in in um uh blood pressure improvements in um uh blood pressure improvements in um uh blood pressure improvements in sleep mood Etc not all significant but sleep mood Etc not all significant but sleep mood Etc not all significant but several which work uh statistically several which work uh statistically several which work uh statistically significant but I don't tend to do significant but I don't tend to do significant but I don't tend to do breath work I tend to just use the breath work I tend to just use the breath work I tend to just use the physiological sigh whenever I'm feeling physiological sigh whenever I'm feeling physiological sigh whenever I'm feeling kind of overly ramped up um I do drink kind of overly ramped up um I do drink kind of overly ramped up um I do drink caffeine I drink in the morning caffeine I drink in the morning caffeine I drink in the morning sometimes in the afternoon supplements sometimes in the afternoon supplements sometimes in the afternoon supplements okay this could be a long discussion our okay this could be a long discussion our okay this could be a long discussion our friend Brian McKenzie uh used to tease friend Brian McKenzie uh used to tease friend Brian McKenzie uh used to tease me if you ask me what supplements I take me if you ask me what supplements I take me if you ask me what supplements I take he'll just shout from the background all he'll just shout from the background all he'll just shout from the background all of them I don't take all of them but of them I don't take all of them but of them I don't take all of them but here's what I do take in the morning I here's what I do take in the morning I here's what I do take in the morning I do take um tongali Al and fogia this is do take um tongali Al and fogia this is do take um tongali Al and fogia this is kind of for freeing up testosterone and kind of for freeing up testosterone and kind of for freeing up testosterone and for luteinizing hormone stimulation for for luteinizing hormone stimulation for for luteinizing hormone stimulation for me I've been on it for years it works me I've been on it for years it works me I've been on it for years it works great it shifted my testosterone and
3:08great it shifted my testosterone and great it shifted my testosterone and free testosterone in the right direction free testosterone in the right direction free testosterone in the right direction subtly not super significantly but subtly not super significantly but subtly not super significantly but subtly and meaningfully for me it works subtly and meaningfully for me it works subtly and meaningfully for me it works some people have not had good results some people have not had good results some people have not had good results with it some people have um I have no by with it some people have um I have no by with it some people have um I have no by the way um I have no relationship to any the way um I have no relationship to any the way um I have no relationship to any uh supplement uh supplement uh supplement I do have a relationship to ag1 and I do have a relationship to ag1 and I do have a relationship to ag1 and element we can talk about ag1 if you element we can talk about ag1 if you element we can talk about ag1 if you want but um this is not a promotion of want but um this is not a promotion of want but um this is not a promotion of any kind we used to be associated with any kind we used to be associated with any kind we used to be associated with momentus uh we parted ways on good great momentus uh we parted ways on good great momentus uh we parted ways on good great terms it just was part and parcel for terms it just was part and parcel for terms it just was part and parcel for some other brand relationships we had so some other brand relationships we had so some other brand relationships we had so um search for best sources if you're um search for best sources if you're um search for best sources if you're going to explore these things I make it going to explore these things I make it going to explore these things I make it a point to take at least a gram of EPA a point to take at least a gram of EPA a point to take at least a gram of EPA form of essential fatty acids through in form of essential fatty acids through in form of essential fatty acids through in the form of fish oil um probably more the form of fish oil um probably more the form of fish oil um probably more like two grams per day is what I'm like two grams per day is what I'm like two grams per day is what I'm shooting for you've talked a lot about shooting for you've talked a lot about shooting for you've talked a lot about this I make that a point for me I feel this I make that a point for me I feel this I make that a point for me I feel better okay my blood work looks good and better okay my blood work looks good and better okay my blood work looks good and that's something I really I really that's something I really I really that's something I really I really strive to do and then I take a bunch of
3:09strive to do and then I take a bunch of strive to do and then I take a bunch of things that I don't know the extent to things that I don't know the extent to things that I don't know the extent to which they've really shifted my which they've really shifted my which they've really shifted my physiology in the best Direction but I physiology in the best Direction but I physiology in the best Direction but I know it hasn't made me worse and I feel know it hasn't made me worse and I feel know it hasn't made me worse and I feel better okay what am I talking about I better okay what am I talking about I better okay what am I talking about I take a multivitamin with my first meal take a multivitamin with my first meal take a multivitamin with my first meal of the day just to cover any basis that of the day just to cover any basis that of the day just to cover any basis that I might be um missing out on I take a I might be um missing out on I take a I might be um missing out on I take a ginger capsule seems to improve my ginger capsule seems to improve my ginger capsule seems to improve my digestion I take a couple digestive digestion I take a couple digestive digestion I take a couple digestive enzymes when I eat um I take 100 enzymes when I eat um I take 100 enzymes when I eat um I take 100 milligrams of zinc with that meal I do milligrams of zinc with that meal I do milligrams of zinc with that meal I do that consistently I take um let's see that consistently I take um let's see that consistently I take um let's see what else is in there I take uh a low what else is in there I take uh a low what else is in there I take uh a low dose of dose of dose of boron um and there are a few other and I boron um and there are a few other and I boron um and there are a few other and I make sure that I get enough vitamin D make sure that I get enough vitamin D make sure that I get enough vitamin D and K2 about 5,000 IU of vitamin D per and K2 about 5,000 IU of vitamin D per and K2 about 5,000 IU of vitamin D per day and some K2 and a little bit of day and some K2 and a little bit of day and some K2 and a little bit of grape seed extract and that's it that's grape seed extract and that's it that's grape seed extract and that's it that's it before sleep I will use magnesium and it before sleep I will use magnesium and it before sleep I will use magnesium and appenine 30 minutes before sleep and i' appenine 30 minutes before sleep and i' appenine 30 minutes before sleep and i' I've been exploring some other things I've been exploring some other things I've been exploring some other things for Sleep um in full disclosure because
3:10for Sleep um in full disclosure because for Sleep um in full disclosure because I just think it's really important I I just think it's really important I I just think it's really important I I've experimented with various peptides I've experimented with various peptides I've experimented with various peptides recently um to be honest they are so recently um to be honest they are so recently um to be honest they are so potent in certain directions um relate potent in certain directions um relate potent in certain directions um relate that impact my sleep that i' I've that impact my sleep that i' I've that impact my sleep that i' I've started to kind of back away from most started to kind of back away from most started to kind of back away from most of them but I'm very curious about a lot of them but I'm very curious about a lot of them but I'm very curious about a lot of them um there's a ton of animal data of them um there's a ton of animal data of them um there's a ton of animal data on bpc-157 so much interest in bpc 157 on bpc-157 so much interest in bpc 157 on bpc-157 so much interest in bpc 157 very little if any human very little if any human very little if any human data that worries me but what worries me data that worries me but what worries me data that worries me but what worries me more is that bpc157 appears to be more is that bpc157 appears to be more is that bpc157 appears to be angiogenic meaning it grows blood angiogenic meaning it grows blood angiogenic meaning it grows blood vessels and that can be great or it can vessels and that can be great or it can vessels and that can be great or it can be problematic depending on what those be problematic depending on what those be problematic depending on what those vessels are feeding um I'm not saying vessels are feeding um I'm not saying vessels are feeding um I'm not saying bpc157 is bad I'm just saying this is my bpc157 is bad I'm just saying this is my bpc157 is bad I'm just saying this is my kind of caution about it and I hope to kind of caution about it and I hope to kind of caution about it and I hope to and I will and I will and I will have um I was taking I have a calf have um I was taking I have a calf have um I was taking I have a calf injury on one leg that is doing some injury on one leg that is doing some injury on one leg that is doing some nerve damage from a skateboarding injury nerve damage from a skateboarding injury nerve damage from a skateboarding injury repeated skateboarding injury years ago repeated skateboarding injury years ago repeated skateboarding injury years ago I was trying to bring that back um and I was trying to bring that back um and I was trying to bring that back um and actually it's amazing I I was injecting
3:11actually it's amazing I I was injecting actually it's amazing I I was injecting it directly into the calf for a couple it directly into the calf for a couple it directly into the calf for a couple weeks and I actually found I could um weeks and I actually found I could um weeks and I actually found I could um and and longer actually it was a couple and and longer actually it was a couple and and longer actually it was a couple months by the time I finished because I months by the time I finished because I months by the time I finished because I was doing it infrequently and I found I was doing it infrequently and I found I was doing it infrequently and I found I actually was able to um finally contract actually was able to um finally contract actually was able to um finally contract that calf meaningfully um while running that calf meaningfully um while running that calf meaningfully um while running and through weight workouts in a way and through weight workouts in a way and through weight workouts in a way that brought some of it back but it was that brought some of it back but it was that brought some of it back but it was it was pretty badly atrophied um but it was pretty badly atrophied um but it was pretty badly atrophied um but I've been doing other things to try and I've been doing other things to try and I've been doing other things to try and get the tissue generating again or I get the tissue generating again or I get the tissue generating again or I should say the neural activation of that should say the neural activation of that should say the neural activation of that calf it's it's not a structural issue calf it's it's not a structural issue calf it's it's not a structural issue that I was born with it's is injury that I was born with it's is injury that I was born with it's is injury induced um and it feels much better but induced um and it feels much better but induced um and it feels much better but I'm currently not taking bpc 157 and I'm I'm currently not taking bpc 157 and I'm I'm currently not taking bpc 157 and I'm worried about prolonged use that's my worried about prolonged use that's my worried about prolonged use that's my concern prolonged use but um and then concern prolonged use but um and then concern prolonged use but um and then some of the other peptides like celin some of the other peptides like celin some of the other peptides like celin testelin the um so-called growth hormone testelin the um so-called growth hormone testelin the um so-called growth hormone secretagogues that stimulate growth secretagogues that stimulate growth secretagogues that stimulate growth hormone release um I I'm you know I'm hormone release um I I'm you know I'm hormone release um I I'm you know I'm not on growth hormone my concern about not on growth hormone my concern about not on growth hormone my concern about cellin was that I would take it um I cellin was that I would take it um I cellin was that I would take it um I took it for infrequently over a period took it for infrequently over a period took it for infrequently over a period of time and I noticed that my sleep I of time and I noticed that my sleep I of time and I noticed that my sleep I got a lot more deep sleep as measured by
3:12got a lot more deep sleep as measured by got a lot more deep sleep as measured by my eight sleep by my sleep but that it my eight sleep by my sleep but that it my eight sleep by my sleep but that it obliterated my rapid eye movement sleep obliterated my rapid eye movement sleep obliterated my rapid eye movement sleep like completely gone and then I so I like completely gone and then I so I like completely gone and then I so I stopped taking cellin um but I wasn't stopped taking cellin um but I wasn't stopped taking cellin um but I wasn't taking it for that long or that taking it for that long or that taking it for that long or that frequently so what I found for me is frequently so what I found for me is frequently so what I found for me is that you know the core set of that you know the core set of that you know the core set of supplements plus training right plus supplements plus training right plus supplements plus training right plus life um lived in the way I described life um lived in the way I described life um lived in the way I described some hydration Etc that seems to work some hydration Etc that seems to work some hydration Etc that seems to work best and um what's my measure of that is best and um what's my measure of that is best and um what's my measure of that is feelings of vigor whether or not I can feelings of vigor whether or not I can feelings of vigor whether or not I can recover from my workouts meaning am I recover from my workouts meaning am I recover from my workouts meaning am I getting any progress in terms of loads getting any progress in terms of loads getting any progress in terms of loads or other intensity variables or distance or other intensity variables or distance or other intensity variables or distance or speed over time um with the or speed over time um with the or speed over time um with the cardiovascular stuff and the answer is cardiovascular stuff and the answer is cardiovascular stuff and the answer is yes small improvements over time are yes small improvements over time are yes small improvements over time are really what I'm after or maintaining really what I'm after or maintaining really what I'm after or maintaining what I've got because at 48 I'm just what I've got because at 48 I'm just what I've got because at 48 I'm just interested in staying healthy and you interested in staying healthy and you interested in staying healthy and you sure would love to be even healthier but sure would love to be even healthier but sure would love to be even healthier but I'm also paying attention to how much I'm also paying attention to how much I'm also paying attention to how much cognitive Vigor I have you know if I'm cognitive Vigor I have you know if I'm cognitive Vigor I have you know if I'm training so much or paying so much training so much or paying so much training so much or paying so much attention to um to nutrition that I
3:13attention to um to nutrition that I attention to um to nutrition that I can't like engage in work and and can't like engage in work and and can't like engage in work and and function that's not good if I can't sit function that's not good if I can't sit function that's not good if I can't sit for three hours and have a conversation for three hours and have a conversation for three hours and have a conversation because I'm in pain that's not good because I'm in pain that's not good because I'm in pain that's not good unfortunately um you know I've got unfortunately um you know I've got unfortunately um you know I've got things in a place where I feel generally things in a place where I feel generally things in a place where I feel generally um good sometimes great but good most of um good sometimes great but good most of um good sometimes great but good most of the time I still get bad nights sleep the time I still get bad nights sleep the time I still get bad nights sleep every once in a while I still every once in a while I still every once in a while I still um stress you know I don't tend to do um stress you know I don't tend to do um stress you know I don't tend to do cheat days or things like that I love cheat days or things like that I love cheat days or things like that I love the occasional piece of pizza or the occasional piece of pizza or the occasional piece of pizza or croissant or something like that but croissant or something like that but croissant or something like that but I've also learned that most of the I've also learned that most of the I've also learned that most of the things about taking great care from things about taking great care from things about taking great care from nutrition lifestyle mindset and um and nutrition lifestyle mindset and um and nutrition lifestyle mindset and um and the rest creates a kind of a heightened the rest creates a kind of a heightened the rest creates a kind of a heightened sensory experience of life this is what sensory experience of life this is what sensory experience of life this is what I think people Miss they think of it as I think people Miss they think of it as I think people Miss they think of it as deprivation but when you're doing these deprivation but when you're doing these deprivation but when you're doing these things and you do them consistently I things and you do them consistently I things and you do them consistently I find at least that first of all I love find at least that first of all I love find at least that first of all I love the foods I eat I love meat fish chicken the foods I eat I love meat fish chicken the foods I eat I love meat fish chicken eggs vegetables certain starches you eggs vegetables certain starches you eggs vegetables certain starches you know fruit Etc that I enjoy all those know fruit Etc that I enjoy all those know fruit Etc that I enjoy all those things and I also enjoy all of life so things and I also enjoy all of life so things and I also enjoy all of life so much more whereas I find that um things much more whereas I find that um things much more whereas I find that um things for me anyway alcohol highly processed
3:14for me anyway alcohol highly processed for me anyway alcohol highly processed foods they create a kind of cloak over foods they create a kind of cloak over foods they create a kind of cloak over my senses I don't I don't enjoy life as my senses I don't I don't enjoy life as my senses I don't I don't enjoy life as much but of course a really good cookie much but of course a really good cookie much but of course a really good cookie like a really good cookie or like sure like a really good cookie or like sure like a really good cookie or like sure you know that that makes sense um and I you know that that makes sense um and I you know that that makes sense um and I enjoy those so I look at things that as enjoy those so I look at things that as enjoy those so I look at things that as all of it exercise nutrition all of it exercise nutrition all of it exercise nutrition supplementation um you know any kind of supplementation um you know any kind of supplementation um you know any kind of nsdr things like that as do they allow nsdr things like that as do they allow nsdr things like that as do they allow me to lean into life with more Vigor me to lean into life with more Vigor me to lean into life with more Vigor with more um curiosity with more texture with more um curiosity with more texture with more um curiosity with more texture or do they kind of consume a lot of time or do they kind of consume a lot of time or do they kind of consume a lot of time and don't allow me to do that and in my and don't allow me to do that and in my and don't allow me to do that and in my my experience the things that I my experience the things that I my experience the things that I described and there are few others I do described and there are few others I do described and there are few others I do allow me to live life better right it's allow me to live life better right it's allow me to live life better right it's not like I'm sleeping all the time or not like I'm sleeping all the time or not like I'm sleeping all the time or I'm neurotically saying okay everybody I'm neurotically saying okay everybody I'm neurotically saying okay everybody it's 8:30 I got to go to sleep you know it's 8:30 I got to go to sleep you know it's 8:30 I got to go to sleep you know and look I respect um people's and look I respect um people's and look I respect um people's individual choices I actually um the individual choices I actually um the individual choices I actually um the other day saw for the first time in a other day saw for the first time in a other day saw for the first time in a long time Brian Johnson who's you know long time Brian Johnson who's you know long time Brian Johnson who's you know he's whole like wholeheartedly and whole he's whole like wholeheartedly and whole he's whole like wholeheartedly and whole everything devoting his entire energy to everything devoting his entire energy to everything devoting his entire energy to being the most measured human and and
3:15being the most measured human and and being the most measured human and and Longevity stuff and that's what floats Longevity stuff and that's what floats Longevity stuff and that's what floats his boat me I like to have some his boat me I like to have some his boat me I like to have some flexibility on my schedule in life and flexibility on my schedule in life and flexibility on my schedule in life and if it cost me a few years of life I'm if it cost me a few years of life I'm if it cost me a few years of life I'm willing to make that willing to make that willing to make that trade one last question I it's and it's trade one last question I it's and it's trade one last question I it's and it's kind of H how do you I'm just interested kind of H how do you I'm just interested kind of H how do you I'm just interested because I I experience this you know because I I experience this you know because I I experience this you know because we are on you know we put because we are on you know we put because we are on you know we put ourselves out there right we're we're in ourselves out there right we're we're in ourselves out there right we're we're in the digital the digital the digital world how do you balance the the world how do you balance the the world how do you balance the the negative you know the negative you know negative you know the negative you know negative you know the negative you know parts of it right like getting people parts of it right like getting people parts of it right like getting people being mean it's easy for people to be being mean it's easy for people to be being mean it's easy for people to be mean how do you balance that like yeah mean how do you balance that like yeah mean how do you balance that like yeah so um to be fair you know I'm was a so um to be fair you know I'm was a so um to be fair you know I'm was a professor I'm still a professor despite professor I'm still a professor despite professor I'm still a professor despite what you may say I'm still 10e professor what you may say I'm still 10e professor what you may say I'm still 10e professor at Stanford as of walking in the room at Stanford as of walking in the room at Stanford as of walking in the room anyway um I teach a few lectures in the anyway um I teach a few lectures in the anyway um I teach a few lectures in the winter and I'll teach more in the spring winter and I'll teach more in the spring winter and I'll teach more in the spring starting next year my lab has been starting next year my lab has been starting next year my lab has been shrunk down as a consequence of the shrunk down as a consequence of the shrunk down as a consequence of the podcast and my interest in moving away podcast and my interest in moving away podcast and my interest in moving away from animal research toward human from animal research toward human from animal research toward human research still involved in clinical
3:16research still involved in clinical research still involved in clinical trials which are done remotely mostly in trials which are done remotely mostly in trials which are done remotely mostly in collaboration with Psychiatry and collaboration with Psychiatry and collaboration with Psychiatry and Opthalmology so that was my life for the Opthalmology so that was my life for the Opthalmology so that was my life for the longest time plus the lab life you know longest time plus the lab life you know longest time plus the lab life you know and people running experiments and I was and people running experiments and I was and people running experiments and I was just a very private person then 2019 just a very private person then 2019 just a very private person then 2019 started posting on Instagram 2020 started posting on Instagram 2020 started posting on Instagram 2020 started going on podcasts 2021 launched started going on podcasts 2021 launched started going on podcasts 2021 launched the podcast in three years you know it the podcast in three years you know it the podcast in three years you know it it's um you know quite grateful for this it's um you know quite grateful for this it's um you know quite grateful for this but it's it's grown a lot and I'm you but it's it's grown a lot and I'm you but it's it's grown a lot and I'm you know humbled and and honored like truly know humbled and and honored like truly know humbled and and honored like truly I it's such an incredible honor and I it's such an incredible honor and I it's such an incredible honor and privilege to be able to teach to so many privilege to be able to teach to so many privilege to be able to teach to so many people and to get the feedback people and to get the feedback people and to get the feedback um the negative stuff comes in a couple um the negative stuff comes in a couple um the negative stuff comes in a couple different forms um some are negative different forms um some are negative different forms um some are negative comments and um and news articles that comments and um and news articles that comments and um and news articles that are really um in form of the comments I are really um in form of the comments I are really um in form of the comments I think people working out their stuff you think people working out their stuff you think people working out their stuff you know I don't know if they're drinking know I don't know if they're drinking know I don't know if they're drinking they're angry they're um dealing with a they're angry they're um dealing with a they're angry they're um dealing with a psychotic issue or they maybe are just psychotic issue or they maybe are just psychotic issue or they maybe are just kind of having fun or they're angry kind of having fun or they're angry kind of having fun or they're angry because there's a misunderstanding um in because there's a misunderstanding um in because there's a misunderstanding um in terms of press um you know as the
3:17terms of press um you know as the terms of press um you know as the podcast has grown our name my name and podcast has grown our name my name and podcast has grown our name my name and face have become uh a source for face have become uh a source for face have become uh a source for generating you know clicks um in generating you know clicks um in generating you know clicks um in response to things that contrast with response to things that contrast with response to things that contrast with people's preconceived notions of what I people's preconceived notions of what I people's preconceived notions of what I might be about so I understand that might be about so I understand that might be about so I understand that relationship with when you put yourself relationship with when you put yourself relationship with when you put yourself out there you make yourself subject to out there you make yourself subject to out there you make yourself subject to that as your popularity that as your popularity that as your popularity increases the the potency of of of increases the the potency of of of increases the the potency of of of attacks um as a source of clicks attacks um as a source of clicks attacks um as a source of clicks increases I also look at it as much as I increases I also look at it as much as I increases I also look at it as much as I can through the lens of not just how it can through the lens of not just how it can through the lens of not just how it makes me feel but like like what's makes me feel but like like what's makes me feel but like like what's meaningful in coming back here that I meaningful in coming back here that I meaningful in coming back here that I can pay attention to and might want to can pay attention to and might want to can pay attention to and might want to adjust my delivery of information or adjust my delivery of information or adjust my delivery of information or anything else in life too um it gets anything else in life too um it gets anything else in life too um it gets frustrating when it's personal you know frustrating when it's personal you know frustrating when it's personal you know I think that um you know I mean I'm not I think that um you know I mean I'm not I think that um you know I mean I'm not going to beat around the bush here I going to beat around the bush here I going to beat around the bush here I think you know there have been some think you know there have been some think you know there have been some personal attacks um that have been quite personal attacks um that have been quite personal attacks um that have been quite public and I've talked about those I public and I've talked about those I public and I've talked about those I talked about those a little bit on on a talked about those a little bit on on a talked about those a little bit on on a jocka willing podcast recently I can jocka willing podcast recently I can jocka willing podcast recently I can summarize it you know pretty simply by
3:18summarize it you know pretty simply by summarize it you know pretty simply by saying you know I'm of the mind that saying you know I'm of the mind that saying you know I'm of the mind that personal matters should be settled personal matters should be settled personal matters should be settled personally and not publicly um I also personally and not publicly um I also personally and not publicly um I also just really believe in trying to have just really believe in trying to have just really believe in trying to have those conversations privately because those conversations privately because those conversations privately because both people understand context you know both people understand context you know both people understand context you know In Articles context is lost um I also In Articles context is lost um I also In Articles context is lost um I also worry um not so much about um direct or worry um not so much about um direct or worry um not so much about um direct or indirect interpretation of things as indirect interpretation of things as indirect interpretation of things as much as kind of like certain narratives much as kind of like certain narratives much as kind of like certain narratives getting exported and and kind of like getting exported and and kind of like getting exported and and kind of like the runaway train of those and and I the runaway train of those and and I the runaway train of those and and I there I will just kind of leave it at there I will just kind of leave it at there I will just kind of leave it at that and just say that you know um that and just say that you know um that and just say that you know um obviously I like everybody else is obviously I like everybody else is obviously I like everybody else is flawed I struggle in certain ways I um flawed I struggle in certain ways I um flawed I struggle in certain ways I um have certain things I'm better at and have certain things I'm better at and have certain things I'm better at and worse at I'm always striving to be the worse at I'm always striving to be the worse at I'm always striving to be the best version of myself I can be and to best version of myself I can be and to best version of myself I can be and to try and um you know do that on a try and um you know do that on a try and um you know do that on a personal basis when it's personal and personal basis when it's personal and personal basis when it's personal and when it's public in terms of when it's public in terms of when it's public in terms of relationship with the public to you know relationship with the public to you know relationship with the public to you know communicate as much as possible without
3:19communicate as much as possible without communicate as much as possible without you know just trying to convince people you know just trying to convince people you know just trying to convince people but hey that I'm here to try and learn but hey that I'm here to try and learn but hey that I'm here to try and learn organize and distribute information that organize and distribute information that organize and distribute information that I think is really useful to people they I think is really useful to people they I think is really useful to people they can take it or leave it I really um do can take it or leave it I really um do can take it or leave it I really um do that it's it is a labor of love I I that it's it is a labor of love I I that it's it is a labor of love I I really do love doing it and I know that really do love doing it and I know that really do love doing it and I know that I can't do it perfectly I certainly made I can't do it perfectly I certainly made I can't do it perfectly I certainly made mistakes we correct those in the show mistakes we correct those in the show mistakes we correct those in the show note captions people definitely Point note captions people definitely Point note captions people definitely Point them out it's always embarrassing it it them out it's always embarrassing it it them out it's always embarrassing it it hurts and yet I try and just take it say hurts and yet I try and just take it say hurts and yet I try and just take it say okay what can I learn from this in my okay what can I learn from this in my okay what can I learn from this in my private life make those adjustments as private life make those adjustments as private life make those adjustments as best I can in my public life make those best I can in my public life make those best I can in my public life make those adjustments as best I can um I published adjustments as best I can um I published adjustments as best I can um I published a correction recently on you know by a correction recently on you know by a correction recently on you know by saying hey I made a math error in this saying hey I made a math error in this saying hey I made a math error in this thing it was actually I made a joke thing it was actually I made a joke thing it was actually I made a joke about it in the episode that didn't about it in the episode that didn't about it in the episode that didn't didn't make clear that there was a you didn't make clear that there was a you didn't make clear that there was a you know it didn't make clear the or clarify know it didn't make clear the or clarify know it didn't make clear the or clarify the misunder understanding so in any the misunder understanding so in any the misunder understanding so in any case just said okay here's the deal case just said okay here's the deal case just said okay here's the deal here's what we do I guess the short here's what we do I guess the short here's what we do I guess the short answer is um I like to think there's answer is um I like to think there's answer is um I like to think there's always learning there take the Jocko always learning there take the Jocko always learning there take the Jocko willink like good you know mindset of willink like good you know mindset of willink like good you know mindset of okay good given that it happened you say
3:20okay good given that it happened you say okay good given that it happened you say good what can I learn from it move on I good what can I learn from it move on I good what can I learn from it move on I think a big part of being an adult and think a big part of being an adult and think a big part of being an adult and being a human being is learning when to being a human being is learning when to being a human being is learning when to stand one's ground and say okay you feel stand one's ground and say okay you feel stand one's ground and say okay you feel that way I feel this way we're going to that way I feel this way we're going to that way I feel this way we're going to agree to disagree that wasn't that way agree to disagree that wasn't that way agree to disagree that wasn't that way or I feel differently okay but the other or I feel differently okay but the other or I feel differently okay but the other half of being an adult is saying ah like half of being an adult is saying ah like half of being an adult is saying ah like oh I could have done better there or wow oh I could have done better there or wow oh I could have done better there or wow I screwed up and apologizing or um I screwed up and apologizing or um I screwed up and apologizing or um making the effort to remedy it going making the effort to remedy it going making the effort to remedy it going forward and and it's always hard to know forward and and it's always hard to know forward and and it's always hard to know exactly where that is I have been um exactly where that is I have been um exactly where that is I have been um saying one thing in particular lately saying one thing in particular lately saying one thing in particular lately which uh no uh clinician has challenged which uh no uh clinician has challenged which uh no uh clinician has challenged me on yet which is that when I go online me on yet which is that when I go online me on yet which is that when I go online I generally assume especially social I generally assume especially social I generally assume especially social media that I'm dealing with essenti media that I'm dealing with essenti media that I'm dealing with essenti a borderline organism you know a borderline organism you know a borderline organism you know borderline is not bipolar okay borderline is not bipolar okay borderline is not bipolar okay borderline is you know the classic borderline is you know the classic borderline is you know the classic definition is weaving back and forth definition is weaving back and forth definition is weaving back and forth between um a healthy mind and psychotic between um a healthy mind and psychotic between um a healthy mind and psychotic you know a borderline person splits by
3:21you know a borderline person splits by you know a borderline person splits by telling you at one moment they love you telling you at one moment they love you telling you at one moment they love you they adore you and then at the next they adore you and then at the next they adore you and then at the next moment that they hate you and all the moment that they hate you and all the moment that they hate you and all the reasons why and I look at engaging on reasons why and I look at engaging on reasons why and I look at engaging on social media like engaging with a social media like engaging with a social media like engaging with a borderline person so I now expect that borderline person so I now expect that borderline person so I now expect that when I go there um and I could go on and when I go there um and I could go on and when I go there um and I could go on and on but what I'll say is um you know this on but what I'll say is um you know this on but what I'll say is um you know this stuff thickens your skin the good stuff stuff thickens your skin the good stuff stuff thickens your skin the good stuff feels good the bad stuff feels bad and feels good the bad stuff feels bad and feels good the bad stuff feels bad and then over time it all kind of then over time it all kind of then over time it all kind of neutralizes and I'm also blessed to have neutralizes and I'm also blessed to have neutralizes and I'm also blessed to have a great team around me um to help me a great team around me um to help me a great team around me um to help me with Optics and Clarity and um have with Optics and Clarity and um have with Optics and Clarity and um have great people in my life and um but it great people in my life and um but it great people in my life and um but it it's not fun all the time and there are it's not fun all the time and there are it's not fun all the time and there are days where you go hey I'm trying to help days where you go hey I'm trying to help days where you go hey I'm trying to help people I'm out there trying to do this people I'm out there trying to do this people I'm out there trying to do this and don't they see it's not about and don't they see it's not about and don't they see it's not about supplements it's about these behaviors supplements it's about these behaviors supplements it's about these behaviors and the supplements help but they're not and the supplements help but they're not and the supplements help but they're not the folks Focus or I'm not all about the the folks Focus or I'm not all about the the folks Focus or I'm not all about the cold plunges you know there's always cold plunges you know there's always cold plunges you know there's always this desire to try and explain oneself this desire to try and explain oneself this desire to try and explain oneself that never works so I've decided I'm that never works so I've decided I'm that never works so I've decided I'm here I'm doing this I know I'm doing it here I'm doing this I know I'm doing it here I'm doing this I know I'm doing it with the real intention of trying to
3:22with the real intention of trying to with the real intention of trying to give people the best information at zero give people the best information at zero give people the best information at zero cost that I possibly can I'm human I'm cost that I possibly can I'm human I'm cost that I possibly can I'm human I'm going to make mistakes I will adjust as going to make mistakes I will adjust as going to make mistakes I will adjust as best I can going forward and people also best I can going forward and people also best I can going forward and people also have the opportunity to tune out or tune have the opportunity to tune out or tune have the opportunity to tune out or tune off and um you know Live and Let Live is off and um you know Live and Let Live is off and um you know Live and Let Live is my My Philosophy my graduate adviser my My Philosophy my graduate adviser my My Philosophy my graduate adviser Barbara Chapman used to say listen Barbara Chapman used to say listen Barbara Chapman used to say listen tolerance has to go in both directions tolerance has to go in both directions tolerance has to go in both directions so um yeah never easy for the hard stuff so um yeah never easy for the hard stuff so um yeah never easy for the hard stuff very gratifying for the positive stuff very gratifying for the positive stuff very gratifying for the positive stuff one of the best sources of feedback I one of the best sources of feedback I one of the best sources of feedback I receive when people say I can't believe receive when people say I can't believe receive when people say I can't believe this is free like you're giving us this this is free like you're giving us this this is free like you're giving us this information I'm like yeah and I and I information I'm like yeah and I and I information I'm like yeah and I and I love doing it so that fills me and um love doing it so that fills me and um love doing it so that fills me and um plan to keep going it's very clear I plan to keep going it's very clear I plan to keep going it's very clear I mean it's very clear you love doing it mean it's very clear you love doing it mean it's very clear you love doing it and I've certainly learned a lot um from and I've certainly learned a lot um from and I've certainly learned a lot um from you and you know especially on a lot of you and you know especially on a lot of you and you know especially on a lot of the topics that we talked about today the topics that we talked about today the topics that we talked about today where I was really diving deep people where I was really diving deep people where I was really diving deep people can find you of course on YouTube hubman can find you of course on YouTube hubman can find you of course on YouTube hubman Lab podcast on Spotify Apple podcasts Lab podcast on Spotify Apple podcasts Lab podcast on Spotify Apple podcasts every everywhere social media hubman lab
3:23every everywhere social media hubman lab every everywhere social media hubman lab we're around tter there wasn't one of we're around tter there wasn't one of we're around tter there wasn't one of those yeah it's been a lot of fun and those yeah it's been a lot of fun and those yeah it's been a lot of fun and we've got some stuff you know planned we've got some stuff you know planned we've got some stuff you know planned some shorter format episodes Audio Only some shorter format episodes Audio Only some shorter format episodes Audio Only some the AI stuff is starting to build some the AI stuff is starting to build some the AI stuff is starting to build out but you know the core of it is out but you know the core of it is out but you know the core of it is learning and organizing and distributing learning and organizing and distributing learning and organizing and distributing information more great guests please information more great guests please information more great guests please come back on the podcast we have so much come back on the podcast we have so much come back on the podcast we have so much more to cover do more solo episodes for more to cover do more solo episodes for more to cover do more solo episodes for sure and um and again I I want to make sure and um and again I I want to make sure and um and again I I want to make sure that I say this again as I did at sure that I say this again as I did at sure that I say this again as I did at the beginning it you're a true Pioneer the beginning it you're a true Pioneer the beginning it you're a true Pioneer in this area you went first in um The in this area you went first in um The in this area you went first in um The Bravery associated with that is immense Bravery associated with that is immense Bravery associated with that is immense I know that as a academic like you and I know that as a academic like you and I know that as a academic like you and um and you've persisted in really um and you've persisted in really um and you've persisted in really pushing hard to deliver the best pushing hard to deliver the best pushing hard to deliver the best information with the most amount of information with the most amount of information with the most amount of rigor even touching into some areas that rigor even touching into some areas that rigor even touching into some areas that there's not um you know let's just call there's not um you know let's just call there's not um you know let's just call them what they are there some them what they are there some them what they are there some controversial areas you just pushed controversial areas you just pushed controversial areas you just pushed really hard into this revising things as really hard into this revising things as really hard into this revising things as necessary as you go and more data come
3:24necessary as you go and more data come necessary as you go and more data come out and I just love love love what out and I just love love love what out and I just love love love what you're doing I consider you a real you're doing I consider you a real you're doing I consider you a real colleague and a friend well thank you colleague and a friend well thank you colleague and a friend well thank you Andrew likewise and it's been a real Andrew likewise and it's been a real Andrew likewise and it's been a real pleasure would love to talk to you again pleasure would love to talk to you again pleasure would love to talk to you again soon let's do it again for sure um thank soon let's do it again for sure um thank soon let's do it again for sure um thank you for for everything thank you