Andrew Huberman Is Cold Exposure the Secret to a Stronger Immune System Discover
00:00Huberman and I'm a professor of Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and opthalmology at neurobiology and opthalmology at neurobiology and opthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today is an Stanford School of Medicine. Today is an Stanford School of Medicine. Today is an ask me anything episode or AMA. This is ask me anything episode or AMA. This is ask me anything episode or AMA. This is part of our premium subscriber channel. part of our premium subscriber channel. part of our premium subscriber channel. Our premium subscriber channel was Our premium subscriber channel was Our premium subscriber channel was started in order to provide support for started in order to provide support for started in order to provide support for this standard Huberman Lab podcast which this standard Huberman Lab podcast which this standard Huberman Lab podcast which comes out every Monday and is available comes out every Monday and is available comes out every Monday and is available at zero cost to everybody on all at zero cost to everybody on all at zero cost to everybody on all standard feeds, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, standard feeds, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, standard feeds, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and elsewhere. We also started the and elsewhere. We also started the and elsewhere. We also started the premium channel as a way to generate premium channel as a way to generate premium channel as a way to generate support for exciting research being done support for exciting research being done support for exciting research being done at Stanford and elsewhere. Research on at Stanford and elsewhere. Research on at Stanford and elsewhere. Research on human beings that leads to important human beings that leads to important human beings that leads to important discoveries that assist mental health, discoveries that assist mental health, discoveries that assist mental health, physical health, and performance. I'm physical health, and performance. I'm physical health, and performance. I'm also pleased to inform you that for also pleased to inform you that for also pleased to inform you that for every dollar the Huberman Lab Premium every dollar the Huberman Lab Premium every dollar the Huberman Lab Premium Channel generates for research studies. Channel generates for research studies. Channel generates for research studies. The Tiny Foundation has agreed to match The Tiny Foundation has agreed to match The Tiny Foundation has agreed to match that amount. So now we are able to that amount. So now we are able to that amount. So now we are able to double the total amount of funding given double the total amount of funding given double the total amount of funding given to studies of mental health, physical to studies of mental health, physical to studies of mental health, physical health, and human performance. If you'd health, and human performance. If you'd health, and human performance. If you'd like to subscribe to the Hubbermanlab like to subscribe to the Hubbermanlab like to subscribe to the Hubbermanlab podcast premium channel, please go to podcast premium channel, please go to podcast premium channel, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium. hubermanlab.com/premium. hubermanlab.com/premium. It is $10 a month to subscribe or you
01:00It is $10 a month to subscribe or you It is $10 a month to subscribe or you can pay $100 all at once to get an can pay $100 all at once to get an can pay $100 all at once to get an entire 12-mon subscription for a year. entire 12-mon subscription for a year. entire 12-mon subscription for a year. We also have a lifetime subscription We also have a lifetime subscription We also have a lifetime subscription model that is a onetime payment. And model that is a onetime payment. And model that is a onetime payment. And again, you can find that option at again, you can find that option at again, you can find that option at hubermanlab.com/premium. hubermanlab.com/premium. For those of you that are already For those of you that are already For those of you that are already subscribers to the premium channel, subscribers to the premium channel, subscribers to the premium channel, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium please go to hubermanlab.com/premium please go to hubermanlab.com/premium and download the premium subscription and download the premium subscription and download the premium subscription feed. And for those of you that are not feed. And for those of you that are not feed. And for those of you that are not Hubberman LLab podcast premium Hubberman LLab podcast premium Hubberman LLab podcast premium subscribers, you can still hear the subscribers, you can still hear the subscribers, you can still hear the first 20 minutes of today's episode and first 20 minutes of today's episode and first 20 minutes of today's episode and determine whether or not becoming a determine whether or not becoming a determine whether or not becoming a premium subscriber is for you. And now, premium subscriber is for you. And now, premium subscriber is for you. And now, without further ado, I will answer your without further ado, I will answer your without further ado, I will answer your questions. And as always, I will strive questions. And as always, I will strive questions. And as always, I will strive to be as thorough as possible, as clear to be as thorough as possible, as clear to be as thorough as possible, as clear as possible, and as concise as possible. as possible, and as concise as possible. as possible, and as concise as possible. The first question is about eye health The first question is about eye health The first question is about eye health in particular, eye health protocols for in particular, eye health protocols for in particular, eye health protocols for people that are aging, but eye health people that are aging, but eye health people that are aging, but eye health protocols for people in general. The protocols for people in general. The protocols for people in general. The question is, I'm noticing that my vision question is, I'm noticing that my vision question is, I'm noticing that my vision both close and far is deteriorating. both close and far is deteriorating. both close and far is deteriorating. What are the best eye exercises, eye
02:00What are the best eye exercises, eye What are the best eye exercises, eye health behaviors, supplements, etc. for health behaviors, supplements, etc. for health behaviors, supplements, etc. for the aging eye? So, the answer I'm about the aging eye? So, the answer I'm about the aging eye? So, the answer I'm about to provide applies to everybody to provide applies to everybody to provide applies to everybody regardless of age, which is you want to regardless of age, which is you want to regardless of age, which is you want to make sure that you view things both make sure that you view things both make sure that you view things both close up and far away across your day. close up and far away across your day. close up and far away across your day. Many many people nowadays spend a lot of Many many people nowadays spend a lot of Many many people nowadays spend a lot of time looking at their smartphone, time looking at their smartphone, time looking at their smartphone, looking at the computer screen, looking looking at the computer screen, looking looking at the computer screen, looking at books and paper. In other words, at books and paper. In other words, at books and paper. In other words, looking at things somewhere between 9 in looking at things somewhere between 9 in looking at things somewhere between 9 in away from their face and their eyes, away from their face and their eyes, away from their face and their eyes, maybe two and a half feet away from maybe two and a half feet away from maybe two and a half feet away from their face and eyes. their face and eyes. their face and eyes. This is an unprecedented event in human This is an unprecedented event in human This is an unprecedented event in human history as far as we know because it history as far as we know because it history as far as we know because it wasn't until the advent of the wasn't until the advent of the wasn't until the advent of the smartphone that we've spent so much time smartphone that we've spent so much time smartphone that we've spent so much time looking at screens at close range looking at screens at close range looking at screens at close range relative to looking at things at further relative to looking at things at further relative to looking at things at further distances from our face throughout the distances from our face throughout the distances from our face throughout the day. In fact, it should come as no day. In fact, it should come as no day. In fact, it should come as no surprise that the incidence of myopia, surprise that the incidence of myopia, surprise that the incidence of myopia, of nearsightedness, of nearsightedness, of nearsightedness, is increasing dramatically around the
03:00is increasing dramatically around the is increasing dramatically around the world, but is increasing particularly world, but is increasing particularly world, but is increasing particularly fast in children and in young adults and fast in children and in young adults and fast in children and in young adults and even in adults who are viewing things at even in adults who are viewing things at even in adults who are viewing things at very close range. So 2 and 1/2 ft or very close range. So 2 and 1/2 ft or very close range. So 2 and 1/2 ft or less. Now, I am not saying that viewing less. Now, I am not saying that viewing less. Now, I am not saying that viewing things at 2 and 1/2 ft or less is bad things at 2 and 1/2 ft or less is bad things at 2 and 1/2 ft or less is bad for your eyes. That is simply not the for your eyes. That is simply not the for your eyes. That is simply not the case. However, if you want your vision case. However, if you want your vision case. However, if you want your vision to be maintained or even improve, it's to be maintained or even improve, it's to be maintained or even improve, it's going to be very important for you to going to be very important for you to going to be very important for you to view things at a distance as well for view things at a distance as well for view things at a distance as well for ideally several hours per day. I realize ideally several hours per day. I realize ideally several hours per day. I realize some people just simply won't accomplish some people just simply won't accomplish some people just simply won't accomplish this. In fact, I'd like everyone to just this. In fact, I'd like everyone to just this. In fact, I'd like everyone to just take a moment and do a rough estimation take a moment and do a rough estimation take a moment and do a rough estimation in your head of how much time during in your head of how much time during in your head of how much time during your daytime activities you are viewing your daytime activities you are viewing your daytime activities you are viewing things at say 2 and 1/2 ft or 3 feet or things at say 2 and 1/2 ft or 3 feet or things at say 2 and 1/2 ft or 3 feet or less. So smartphone, computer screen, less. So smartphone, computer screen, less. So smartphone, computer screen, paper, books, etc. versus viewing things paper, books, etc. versus viewing things paper, books, etc. versus viewing things that are four feet away, 8 feet away. So that are four feet away, 8 feet away. So that are four feet away, 8 feet away. So maybe conversation across a table with maybe conversation across a table with maybe conversation across a table with another human being. Remember those? Um, another human being. Remember those? Um, another human being. Remember those? Um, some of us are doing that more now that
04:00some of us are doing that more now that some of us are doing that more now that we seem to be emerging from this whole, we seem to be emerging from this whole, we seem to be emerging from this whole, you know, pandemic phase. you know, pandemic phase. you know, pandemic phase. However, many people are still mostly However, many people are still mostly However, many people are still mostly just viewing things within very close just viewing things within very close just viewing things within very close range. And in fact, if you were to ask range. And in fact, if you were to ask range. And in fact, if you were to ask yourself, how much time do you spend yourself, how much time do you spend yourself, how much time do you spend looking at things at the distance of looking at things at the distance of looking at things at the distance of many hundreds of feet or taking a walk many hundreds of feet or taking a walk many hundreds of feet or taking a walk where you're not looking at any screen where you're not looking at any screen where you're not looking at any screen and you're simply letting visual images and you're simply letting visual images and you're simply letting visual images or the visual imagery rather pass by on or the visual imagery rather pass by on or the visual imagery rather pass by on your eyes, I think for most of us that your eyes, I think for most of us that your eyes, I think for most of us that number is getting progressively smaller number is getting progressively smaller number is getting progressively smaller and smaller with each passing year. So and smaller with each passing year. So and smaller with each passing year. So this is an issue because the structure this is an issue because the structure this is an issue because the structure of the eye is such that the lens of the of the eye is such that the lens of the of the eye is such that the lens of the eye can move but also that the length of eye can move but also that the length of eye can move but also that the length of the eyeball from front to back is the eyeball from front to back is the eyeball from front to back is actually impacted by how close or how actually impacted by how close or how actually impacted by how close or how far you happen to view things during the far you happen to view things during the far you happen to view things during the course of your day especially during course of your day especially during course of your day especially during development. There's a classic development. There's a classic development. There's a classic experiment I'd like to just briefly experiment I'd like to just briefly experiment I'd like to just briefly describe to you which has been performed describe to you which has been performed describe to you which has been performed in chickens. It's been performed in in chickens. It's been performed in in chickens. It's been performed in mice. It's also been performed on humans
05:00mice. It's also been performed on humans mice. It's also been performed on humans where a visual oludder or a visual where a visual oludder or a visual where a visual oludder or a visual image. So an occludder is just a you image. So an occludder is just a you image. So an occludder is just a you know a black uh sort of screen or piece know a black uh sort of screen or piece know a black uh sort of screen or piece of cardboard or an a image maybe some of cardboard or an a image maybe some of cardboard or an a image maybe some you know black and white checks or you know black and white checks or you know black and white checks or checkers are placed at a certain checkers are placed at a certain checkers are placed at a certain distance from the eye either up close or distance from the eye either up close or distance from the eye either up close or far away. And the impact of that on the far away. And the impact of that on the far away. And the impact of that on the length of the eyeball and on the length of the eyeball and on the length of the eyeball and on the structure of the lens and on the quality structure of the lens and on the quality structure of the lens and on the quality and acuity of vision is then measured. and acuity of vision is then measured. and acuity of vision is then measured. And to make a long story short, what And to make a long story short, what And to make a long story short, what these studies show is that if during these studies show is that if during these studies show is that if during development you or an animal exclusively development you or an animal exclusively development you or an animal exclusively looks at things that are up close, very looks at things that are up close, very looks at things that are up close, very close to the eye and doesn't ever get close to the eye and doesn't ever get close to the eye and doesn't ever get long range vision, the eyeball long range vision, the eyeball long range vision, the eyeball lengthens. And when that happens, the lengthens. And when that happens, the lengthens. And when that happens, the lens, which of course is in the front of lens, which of course is in the front of lens, which of course is in the front of the eyeball, which focuses the light the eyeball, which focuses the light the eyeball, which focuses the light onto the back of the eyeball, which is onto the back of the eyeball, which is onto the back of the eyeball, which is where the so-called neural retina is, where the so-called neural retina is, where the so-called neural retina is, where the cells that sense light are, where the cells that sense light are, where the cells that sense light are, that visual image lands in front of as
06:00that visual image lands in front of as that visual image lands in front of as opposed to directly on the light sensing opposed to directly on the light sensing opposed to directly on the light sensing portion of the eyeball that we call the portion of the eyeball that we call the portion of the eyeball that we call the neural retina. it lands too close or neural retina. it lands too close or neural retina. it lands too close or near the lens as opposed to on the back near the lens as opposed to on the back near the lens as opposed to on the back of the eyeball. And that's part of the of the eyeball. And that's part of the of the eyeball. And that's part of the reason what we call the consequence of reason what we call the consequence of reason what we call the consequence of that nearsighted myopia. In that nearsighted myopia. In that nearsighted myopia. In farsightedness, the opposite happens. farsightedness, the opposite happens. farsightedness, the opposite happens. The visual image is actually focused The visual image is actually focused The visual image is actually focused behind the retina. It doesn't land behind the retina. It doesn't land behind the retina. It doesn't land directly on the retina, which is what directly on the retina, which is what directly on the retina, which is what you want. It's focused too far behind you want. It's focused too far behind you want. It's focused too far behind the retina, and that's due to a the retina, and that's due to a the retina, and that's due to a shortening of the eyeball. So, what I shortening of the eyeball. So, what I shortening of the eyeball. So, what I just described actually explains pretty just described actually explains pretty just described actually explains pretty well why kids who look at computer well why kids who look at computer well why kids who look at computer screens or books up close often need screens or books up close often need screens or books up close often need glasses. Um, you know, when I was glasses. Um, you know, when I was glasses. Um, you know, when I was growing up, they call this nerd growing up, they call this nerd growing up, they call this nerd syndrome. syndrome. syndrome. Raising my hand for those of you that Raising my hand for those of you that Raising my hand for those of you that are listening, I read an awful lot. Um, are listening, I read an awful lot. Um, are listening, I read an awful lot. Um, but I also spend time outside, but I also spend time outside, but I also spend time outside, fortunately, and running around on the fortunately, and running around on the fortunately, and running around on the soccer field and looking at things in soccer field and looking at things in soccer field and looking at things in the distance and um, playing in the the distance and um, playing in the
07:00the distance and um, playing in the neighborhood with my friends. Kids that neighborhood with my friends. Kids that neighborhood with my friends. Kids that spend the vast amount of their time spend the vast amount of their time spend the vast amount of their time looking at things up close in particular looking at things up close in particular looking at things up close in particular children who do that indoors for most of children who do that indoors for most of children who do that indoors for most of their waking time. Well, those kids their waking time. Well, those kids their waking time. Well, those kids develop myopia. This is part of the develop myopia. This is part of the develop myopia. This is part of the reason why we have such a um uh an reason why we have such a um uh an reason why we have such a um uh an increase of the incidence of myopia increase of the incidence of myopia increase of the incidence of myopia nowadays. nowadays. nowadays. What's interesting, and I think most What's interesting, and I think most What's interesting, and I think most people don't realize, is that even as a people don't realize, is that even as a people don't realize, is that even as a young adult, an adult, and perhaps even young adult, an adult, and perhaps even young adult, an adult, and perhaps even as an older adult, an elderly person, as an older adult, an elderly person, as an older adult, an elderly person, looking at things up close too much at looking at things up close too much at looking at things up close too much at the expense of getting some time viewing the expense of getting some time viewing the expense of getting some time viewing things at a distance, in particular things at a distance, in particular things at a distance, in particular outdoors, can be very problematic outdoors, can be very problematic outdoors, can be very problematic because it can exacerbate myopia. So the because it can exacerbate myopia. So the because it can exacerbate myopia. So the short direct prescription here is to short direct prescription here is to short direct prescription here is to make sure that you're getting at least make sure that you're getting at least make sure that you're getting at least an hour or so each day. Although ideally an hour or so each day. Although ideally an hour or so each day. Although ideally it would be more of long viewing and it would be more of long viewing and it would be more of long viewing and that could be done by walking outside that could be done by walking outside that could be done by walking outside and avoiding looking at your phone while and avoiding looking at your phone while and avoiding looking at your phone while walking. It doesn't require that you walking. It doesn't require that you walking. It doesn't require that you look at a particular object in the look at a particular object in the look at a particular object in the distance. Although if you are scanning distance. Although if you are scanning distance. Although if you are scanning for and looking for objects in the for and looking for objects in the for and looking for objects in the distance uh the way that um you might on
08:00distance uh the way that um you might on distance uh the way that um you might on a hike or you're looking out toward or a hike or you're looking out toward or a hike or you're looking out toward or off a a vista or you're looking for off a a vista or you're looking for off a a vista or you're looking for someone in the distance, all of that someone in the distance, all of that someone in the distance, all of that sort of visual scanning behavior is sort of visual scanning behavior is sort of visual scanning behavior is going to be very good for your eye going to be very good for your eye going to be very good for your eye health and for maintaining vision at a health and for maintaining vision at a health and for maintaining vision at a distance. If you're somebody who's distance. If you're somebody who's distance. If you're somebody who's farsighted and you have trouble seeing farsighted and you have trouble seeing farsighted and you have trouble seeing things up close, well then you need to things up close, well then you need to things up close, well then you need to ask yourself whether or not you're ask yourself whether or not you're ask yourself whether or not you're spending too much time looking at things spending too much time looking at things spending too much time looking at things off in the distance. Although I want to off in the distance. Although I want to off in the distance. Although I want to be very clear that nearsightedness and be very clear that nearsightedness and be very clear that nearsightedness and far-sightedness aren't necessarily the far-sightedness aren't necessarily the far-sightedness aren't necessarily the consequence of this near far viewing. consequence of this near far viewing. consequence of this near far viewing. There can be independent causes of There can be independent causes of There can be independent causes of nearsidedness and far-sightedness. But nearsidedness and far-sightedness. But nearsidedness and far-sightedness. But for many people out there who are for many people out there who are for many people out there who are spending progressively more and more spending progressively more and more spending progressively more and more time just looking at things up close, time just looking at things up close, time just looking at things up close, you can get this lengthening of the you can get this lengthening of the you can get this lengthening of the eyeball or challenges in the way that eyeball or challenges in the way that eyeball or challenges in the way that the elasticity of the lens is controlled the elasticity of the lens is controlled the elasticity of the lens is controlled by the musculature in ways that make it by the musculature in ways that make it by the musculature in ways that make it hard to maintain sharp crisp vision when hard to maintain sharp crisp vision when hard to maintain sharp crisp vision when you are looking at things at a distance you are looking at things at a distance you are looking at things at a distance or up close. Okay. So I can't because or up close. Okay. So I can't because or up close. Okay. So I can't because there are simply no studies to support there are simply no studies to support there are simply no studies to support the idea that you need exactly 2 hours
09:00the idea that you need exactly 2 hours the idea that you need exactly 2 hours per day of outside long vision at a per day of outside long vision at a per day of outside long vision at a particular distance and or that you want particular distance and or that you want particular distance and or that you want to cut off or have a threshold of you to cut off or have a threshold of you to cut off or have a threshold of you know four hours per day of looking at know four hours per day of looking at know four hours per day of looking at things up close. But we can say with a things up close. But we can say with a things up close. But we can say with a high degree of confidence that if you high degree of confidence that if you high degree of confidence that if you want to maintain or enhance your vision want to maintain or enhance your vision want to maintain or enhance your vision at all distances, that for every hour or at all distances, that for every hour or at all distances, that for every hour or so that you spend looking at things, say so that you spend looking at things, say so that you spend looking at things, say a distance of 3 feet away or less, you a distance of 3 feet away or less, you a distance of 3 feet away or less, you want to get at least one hour per day want to get at least one hour per day want to get at least one hour per day total. Doesn't have to be all at once of total. Doesn't have to be all at once of total. Doesn't have to be all at once of looking at things out in the distance or looking at things out in the distance or looking at things out in the distance or looking at things beyond 3 ft uh looking at things beyond 3 ft uh looking at things beyond 3 ft uh relative to the distance from your eye. relative to the distance from your eye. relative to the distance from your eye. Okay. So, I think for some people who Okay. So, I think for some people who Okay. So, I think for some people who are already badly myopic, uh, this isn't are already badly myopic, uh, this isn't are already badly myopic, uh, this isn't going to remedy that myopia, you're going to remedy that myopia, you're going to remedy that myopia, you're still going to need corrective lenses. still going to need corrective lenses. still going to need corrective lenses. But if you're somebody similar to the But if you're somebody similar to the But if you're somebody similar to the person who asked the question that person who asked the question that person who asked the question that they're quote unquote noticing their they're quote unquote noticing their they're quote unquote noticing their vision is deteriorating, really try and vision is deteriorating, really try and vision is deteriorating, really try and balance out the amount of viewing that balance out the amount of viewing that balance out the amount of viewing that you're doing at close distance and long you're doing at close distance and long you're doing at close distance and long distance. And again, I would not obsess distance. And again, I would not obsess distance. And again, I would not obsess about the total numbers. You know, it about the total numbers. You know, it
10:00about the total numbers. You know, it doesn't have to be 3 hours and 3 hours. doesn't have to be 3 hours and 3 hours. doesn't have to be 3 hours and 3 hours. Um, but the more time that you can spend Um, but the more time that you can spend Um, but the more time that you can spend at viewing things at variable distance at viewing things at variable distance at viewing things at variable distance throughout the day, the better off throughout the day, the better off throughout the day, the better off you're going to be in maintaining and you're going to be in maintaining and you're going to be in maintaining and perhaps even enhancing your vision perhaps even enhancing your vision perhaps even enhancing your vision somewhat. Now, there's an additional somewhat. Now, there's an additional somewhat. Now, there's an additional behavioral tool that we can glean from behavioral tool that we can glean from behavioral tool that we can glean from the recent scientific literature the recent scientific literature the recent scientific literature exploring myopia, which points to the exploring myopia, which points to the exploring myopia, which points to the fact that children who get two hours a fact that children who get two hours a fact that children who get two hours a day or more of time outside day or more of time outside day or more of time outside in sunlight, right? One of my favorite in sunlight, right? One of my favorite in sunlight, right? One of my favorite topics. I know many people are probably topics. I know many people are probably topics. I know many people are probably rolling their eyes right now. U when rolling their eyes right now. U when rolling their eyes right now. U when they hear me say you really want to view they hear me say you really want to view they hear me say you really want to view morning sunlight, not through a window morning sunlight, not through a window morning sunlight, not through a window or windshield. Don't wear sunglasses for or windshield. Don't wear sunglasses for or windshield. Don't wear sunglasses for that. Try and get as much sunlight as that. Try and get as much sunlight as that. Try and get as much sunlight as you can in your eyes early in the day. you can in your eyes early in the day. you can in your eyes early in the day. Never stare at any light so bright it's Never stare at any light so bright it's Never stare at any light so bright it's painful to look at, etc. We've done a painful to look at, etc. We've done a painful to look at, etc. We've done a lot of episodes on this. We have a light lot of episodes on this. We have a light lot of episodes on this. We have a light for health episode. This is in all the for health episode. This is in all the for health episode. This is in all the sleep episodes. It's just such a basic sleep episodes. It's just such a basic sleep episodes. It's just such a basic foundation of circadian rhythm and foundation of circadian rhythm and foundation of circadian rhythm and health that I just keep repeating it. health that I just keep repeating it. health that I just keep repeating it. However, there are also large-scale However, there are also large-scale However, there are also large-scale clinical trials involving thousands of clinical trials involving thousands of clinical trials involving thousands of subjects that have shown that people, subjects that have shown that people, subjects that have shown that people, children in particular, who get two
11:00children in particular, who get two children in particular, who get two hours or more of outside time every day hours or more of outside time every day hours or more of outside time every day have a much lower incidence of myopia. have a much lower incidence of myopia. have a much lower incidence of myopia. Now, what's really interesting about Now, what's really interesting about Now, what's really interesting about these studies is that while some of these studies is that while some of these studies is that while some of those kids are looking at things further those kids are looking at things further those kids are looking at things further off in the distance than they would if off in the distance than they would if off in the distance than they would if they were indoors on their tablets or they were indoors on their tablets or they were indoors on their tablets or screens or with their nose in a book, it screens or with their nose in a book, it screens or with their nose in a book, it does not seem to be the case that they does not seem to be the case that they does not seem to be the case that they have to be looking at things in the have to be looking at things in the have to be looking at things in the distance in order to see this reduced distance in order to see this reduced distance in order to see this reduced incidence of myopia. incidence of myopia. incidence of myopia. What's probably happening instead is What's probably happening instead is What's probably happening instead is that the particular wavelengths of light that the particular wavelengths of light that the particular wavelengths of light that emanate from the sun, that photon that emanate from the sun, that photon that emanate from the sun, that photon energy in particular is triggering the energy in particular is triggering the energy in particular is triggering the activation of these so-called activation of these so-called activation of these so-called intrinsically sensitive melanopsin intrinsically sensitive melanopsin intrinsically sensitive melanopsin retinal gangling cells, which we know retinal gangling cells, which we know retinal gangling cells, which we know are important for setting circadian are important for setting circadian are important for setting circadian rhythm for enhancing mood focus and rhythm for enhancing mood focus and rhythm for enhancing mood focus and alertness during the day and enhancing alertness during the day and enhancing alertness during the day and enhancing the quality and duration of sleep at the quality and duration of sleep at the quality and duration of sleep at night. night. night. But those melanopsin intrinsically But those melanopsin intrinsically But those melanopsin intrinsically photosensitive ganglen cells are also photosensitive ganglen cells are also photosensitive ganglen cells are also involved in networks within the eye that involved in networks within the eye that involved in networks within the eye that relate to blood flow that relate to the relate to blood flow that relate to the relate to blood flow that relate to the uh the siliary body which is a structure
12:00uh the siliary body which is a structure uh the siliary body which is a structure within the eye that controls uh the within the eye that controls uh the within the eye that controls uh the aperture and movement of some key aperture and movement of some key aperture and movement of some key components within the eye that also components within the eye that also components within the eye that also relate to the crispness of vision that relate to the crispness of vision that relate to the crispness of vision that is the acuity of vision at both short is the acuity of vision at both short is the acuity of vision at both short and long range. So there are a lot of and long range. So there are a lot of and long range. So there are a lot of technical details there. In fact, um I technical details there. In fact, um I technical details there. In fact, um I really hope to get uh the great Russ Van really hope to get uh the great Russ Van really hope to get uh the great Russ Van Gelder or Dr. Russ Van Gelder who's the Gelder or Dr. Russ Van Gelder who's the Gelder or Dr. Russ Van Gelder who's the chair of opthalmology at the University chair of opthalmology at the University chair of opthalmology at the University of Washington in Seattle who is a world of Washington in Seattle who is a world of Washington in Seattle who is a world expert in this and the various aspects expert in this and the various aspects expert in this and the various aspects both molecular and structural of the both molecular and structural of the both molecular and structural of the siliary body and the lens and he's an siliary body and the lens and he's an siliary body and the lens and he's an expert in uvitis. Uh a very interesting expert in uvitis. Uh a very interesting expert in uvitis. Uh a very interesting topic in its own right to come onto the topic in its own right to come onto the topic in its own right to come onto the podcast and talk more about eye health podcast and talk more about eye health podcast and talk more about eye health and we we will do that in the not too and we we will do that in the not too and we we will do that in the not too distant future. Meanwhile, if the first distant future. Meanwhile, if the first distant future. Meanwhile, if the first behavioral protocol for enhancing and behavioral protocol for enhancing and behavioral protocol for enhancing and maintaining eye health is to make sure maintaining eye health is to make sure maintaining eye health is to make sure that you're spending at least some time that you're spending at least some time that you're spending at least some time balancing out the near vision and far balancing out the near vision and far balancing out the near vision and far vision during the day, it also stands to vision during the day, it also stands to vision during the day, it also stands to reason that you want to get outside for reason that you want to get outside for reason that you want to get outside for at least two hours a day, which I know at least two hours a day, which I know at least two hours a day, which I know sounds like a lot in order to prevent sounds like a lot in order to prevent sounds like a lot in order to prevent myopia if you're a young person and
13:00myopia if you're a young person and myopia if you're a young person and offset the progression of and maybe even offset the progression of and maybe even offset the progression of and maybe even reverse some myopia. We don't know yet reverse some myopia. We don't know yet reverse some myopia. We don't know yet based on the data, but there's some based on the data, but there's some based on the data, but there's some indication that's possible by getting indication that's possible by getting indication that's possible by getting outside two hours a day. And the cool outside two hours a day. And the cool outside two hours a day. And the cool thing is because many people including thing is because many people including thing is because many people including myself have a lot of work to do and we myself have a lot of work to do and we myself have a lot of work to do and we need to be on our phones quite a lot or need to be on our phones quite a lot or need to be on our phones quite a lot or we choose to be on our phones quite a we choose to be on our phones quite a we choose to be on our phones quite a lot. This effect of getting sunlight lot. This effect of getting sunlight lot. This effect of getting sunlight outdoors during the daytime for 2 hours outdoors during the daytime for 2 hours outdoors during the daytime for 2 hours or more does not seem to require that or more does not seem to require that or more does not seem to require that you stay off your phone or tablet or you stay off your phone or tablet or you stay off your phone or tablet or that you're looking at things far in the that you're looking at things far in the that you're looking at things far in the distance the entire time. What this distance the entire time. What this distance the entire time. What this means is if you can get outside onto a means is if you can get outside onto a means is if you can get outside onto a patio or a deck or you know an outdoor patio or a deck or you know an outdoor patio or a deck or you know an outdoor table if you can if weather and table if you can if weather and table if you can if weather and conditions permit and do some of your conditions permit and do some of your conditions permit and do some of your phone time and computer time and reading phone time and computer time and reading phone time and computer time and reading etc outdoors. Now if you're already etc outdoors. Now if you're already etc outdoors. Now if you're already making an effort to get outside, hike, making an effort to get outside, hike, making an effort to get outside, hike, play sports, um take walks, etc. that of play sports, um take walks, etc. that of play sports, um take walks, etc. that of course counts towards this 2-hour course counts towards this 2-hour course counts towards this 2-hour threshold. And I know this sounds like a threshold. And I know this sounds like a threshold. And I know this sounds like a lot, this two hours. And yet for most lot, this two hours. And yet for most lot, this two hours. And yet for most people, you know, it certainly will vary people, you know, it certainly will vary people, you know, it certainly will vary depending on time of year, but I think
14:00depending on time of year, but I think depending on time of year, but I think striving to get on average about two striving to get on average about two striving to get on average about two hours of outdoor time as much as you can hours of outdoor time as much as you can hours of outdoor time as much as you can or opening a window, which wouldn't be or opening a window, which wouldn't be or opening a window, which wouldn't be as good as getting outside, but opening as good as getting outside, but opening as good as getting outside, but opening a window and trying to get some natural a window and trying to get some natural a window and trying to get some natural light exposure to the eye to trigger the light exposure to the eye to trigger the light exposure to the eye to trigger the activity, these intrinsically activity, these intrinsically activity, these intrinsically photosensive melnops and retinal ganglen photosensive melnops and retinal ganglen photosensive melnops and retinal ganglen cells, that's going to be a really good cells, that's going to be a really good cells, that's going to be a really good idea in trying to offset and maybe even idea in trying to offset and maybe even idea in trying to offset and maybe even reverse some vision loss. Now the other reverse some vision loss. Now the other reverse some vision loss. Now the other behavioral protocols which have shown to behavioral protocols which have shown to behavioral protocols which have shown to be useful in terms of maintaining or be useful in terms of maintaining or be useful in terms of maintaining or improving vision relate to the improving vision relate to the improving vision relate to the musculature around the eye and the musculature around the eye and the musculature around the eye and the control of the movement of the lens and control of the movement of the lens and control of the movement of the lens and actually the lens of the eye has its own actually the lens of the eye has its own actually the lens of the eye has its own kind of flexibility. It's a really kind of flexibility. It's a really kind of flexibility. It's a really really interesting structure. Um I'll really interesting structure. Um I'll really interesting structure. Um I'll geek out on this far too long if um if I geek out on this far too long if um if I geek out on this far too long if um if I don't prevent myself from doing so. the don't prevent myself from doing so. the don't prevent myself from doing so. the lens is just incredible. The fact that lens is just incredible. The fact that lens is just incredible. The fact that it has a specific it has a specific it has a specific structure of proteins like crystallins structure of proteins like crystallins structure of proteins like crystallins and things of that sort and that it can and things of that sort and that it can and things of that sort and that it can um still derive nourishment from blood um still derive nourishment from blood um still derive nourishment from blood flow but does not actually have vascule flow but does not actually have vascule flow but does not actually have vascule within it. So it's not if you notice I within it. So it's not if you notice I within it. So it's not if you notice I mean the the lens of your eyes and mean the the lens of your eyes and mean the the lens of your eyes and filled with blood vessels and filled with blood vessels and filled with blood vessels and capillaries because it needs light to
15:00capillaries because it needs light to capillaries because it needs light to pass through. Super interesting pass through. Super interesting pass through. Super interesting structure. Um I think the only violation structure. Um I think the only violation structure. Um I think the only violation of what I just said is the manatee, of what I just said is the manatee, of what I just said is the manatee, right? those big sort of underwater right? those big sort of underwater right? those big sort of underwater elephant-like creatures that um I think elephant-like creatures that um I think elephant-like creatures that um I think were are endangered down in Florida. were are endangered down in Florida. were are endangered down in Florida. They were getting chopped up by They were getting chopped up by They were getting chopped up by speedboats, but I think now there's some speedboats, but I think now there's some speedboats, but I think now there's some effort to preserve those big gentle effort to preserve those big gentle effort to preserve those big gentle giants. The manatee, as I recall, has a giants. The manatee, as I recall, has a giants. The manatee, as I recall, has a vascularized vascularized vascularized lens, which is why their eyes look lens, which is why their eyes look lens, which is why their eyes look opaque. It looks like they have opaque. It looks like they have opaque. It looks like they have cataracts. Um in any case, you're not a cataracts. Um in any case, you're not a cataracts. Um in any case, you're not a manatee. You have no blood vessel supply manatee. You have no blood vessel supply manatee. You have no blood vessel supply to to the lens. keeping that lens clear to to the lens. keeping that lens clear to to the lens. keeping that lens clear is vital nowadays that you can they can is vital nowadays that you can they can is vital nowadays that you can they can do lens replacement. There's really um a do lens replacement. There's really um a do lens replacement. There's really um a pretty incredible um progress in the in pretty incredible um progress in the in pretty incredible um progress in the in the realm of opthalmology and surgical the realm of opthalmology and surgical the realm of opthalmology and surgical replacement of the lens or the cornea, replacement of the lens or the cornea, replacement of the lens or the cornea, other aspects of the eye. But if you're other aspects of the eye. But if you're other aspects of the eye. But if you're somebody who is interested in somebody who is interested in somebody who is interested in maintaining your vision, you're going to maintaining your vision, you're going to maintaining your vision, you're going to want to maintain the musculature that want to maintain the musculature that want to maintain the musculature that controls the movement and the change of controls the movement and the change of controls the movement and the change of shape in that lens and the movement of shape in that lens and the movement of shape in that lens and the movement of the eyes, which allows you to transition
16:00the eyes, which allows you to transition the eyes, which allows you to transition your vision from very sharp when viewing your vision from very sharp when viewing your vision from very sharp when viewing things up close to very sharp when things up close to very sharp when things up close to very sharp when viewing things at a distance. And this viewing things at a distance. And this viewing things at a distance. And this is where some of the so-called nearfar is where some of the so-called nearfar is where some of the so-called nearfar exercises can be very useful. So when we exercises can be very useful. So when we exercises can be very useful. So when we did a full-length podcast on eye health did a full-length podcast on eye health did a full-length podcast on eye health and improving eyesight, which I invite and improving eyesight, which I invite and improving eyesight, which I invite you to listen to if you like, talked you to listen to if you like, talked you to listen to if you like, talked about two different types of vision about two different types of vision about two different types of vision exercises that have been shown to be exercises that have been shown to be exercises that have been shown to be useful for improving vision at the level useful for improving vision at the level useful for improving vision at the level of acuity that have a lot to do with of acuity that have a lot to do with of acuity that have a lot to do with improving the musculature and the improving the musculature and the improving the musculature and the movement of the eyes and the lens. And movement of the eyes and the lens. And movement of the eyes and the lens. And that's what's called a smooth pursuit that's what's called a smooth pursuit that's what's called a smooth pursuit task. So you could go on to YouTube if task. So you could go on to YouTube if task. So you could go on to YouTube if you like and put smooth pursuit eye task you like and put smooth pursuit eye task you like and put smooth pursuit eye task and do this for a few minutes each day and do this for a few minutes each day and do this for a few minutes each day if you're trying to keep your vision if you're trying to keep your vision if you're trying to keep your vision strong. And what that task involves is strong. And what that task involves is strong. And what that task involves is as the name suggests smoothly tracking a as the name suggests smoothly tracking a as the name suggests smoothly tracking a small dot or cross-hatch or arrow on the small dot or cross-hatch or arrow on the small dot or cross-hatch or arrow on the screen which is very different than the screen which is very different than the screen which is very different than the so-called sacad type eye movements that so-called sacad type eye movements that so-called sacad type eye movements that we often make. CCODs are when you dart we often make. CCODs are when you dart we often make. CCODs are when you dart your eyes to a particular location to your eyes to a particular location to your eyes to a particular location to look at something then dart it to look at something then dart it to look at something then dart it to another location to look at something.
17:00another location to look at something. another location to look at something. Micro sacods are little tiny versions of Micro sacods are little tiny versions of Micro sacods are little tiny versions of those that we're doing most all of the those that we're doing most all of the those that we're doing most all of the time. Believe it or not, when you look time. Believe it or not, when you look time. Believe it or not, when you look at a visual scene or image, if you did at a visual scene or image, if you did at a visual scene or image, if you did not have those little microcods, your not have those little microcods, your not have those little microcods, your brain would adapt or would attenuate to brain would adapt or would attenuate to brain would adapt or would attenuate to whatever you were looking at and the whatever you were looking at and the whatever you were looking at and the visual image would actually disappear. visual image would actually disappear. visual image would actually disappear. Which really speaks to how important it Which really speaks to how important it Which really speaks to how important it is that your perceptions change in order is that your perceptions change in order is that your perceptions change in order to maintain them. This is very similar to maintain them. This is very similar to maintain them. This is very similar to where if something is placed on your to where if something is placed on your to where if something is placed on your uh hand, say a finger, you'll notice uh hand, say a finger, you'll notice uh hand, say a finger, you'll notice that change. But then if you leave it that change. But then if you leave it that change. But then if you leave it there for a short while, you'll forget there for a short while, you'll forget there for a short while, you'll forget that it's there because the cells there that it's there because the cells there that it's there because the cells there have adapted out. There's no change. So have adapted out. There's no change. So have adapted out. There's no change. So your nervous system is largely your nervous system is largely your nervous system is largely responding to change. This is also why responding to change. This is also why responding to change. This is also why when you walk into a room and you often when you walk into a room and you often when you walk into a room and you often notice a novel smell. Let's hope it's a notice a novel smell. Let's hope it's a notice a novel smell. Let's hope it's a good smell. After a few minutes or so, good smell. After a few minutes or so, good smell. After a few minutes or so, you don't notice the smell anymore you don't notice the smell anymore you don't notice the smell anymore because your factory system adapted that because your factory system adapted that because your factory system adapted that away. So a lot of that adaptation is away. So a lot of that adaptation is away. So a lot of that adaptation is prevented by those little micro cicads prevented by those little micro cicads prevented by those little micro cicads and the macro cicads, the bigger cacods and the macro cicads, the bigger cacods and the macro cicads, the bigger cacods are really for moving your eyes around are really for moving your eyes around are really for moving your eyes around to look for things in visual space. to look for things in visual space. to look for things in visual space. Smooth pursuit is a very particular kind Smooth pursuit is a very particular kind Smooth pursuit is a very particular kind of visual behavior that you can do in a
18:00of visual behavior that you can do in a of visual behavior that you can do in a smooth pursuit task. Again, zero cost, smooth pursuit task. Again, zero cost, smooth pursuit task. Again, zero cost, costs a little bit of time, I suppose, costs a little bit of time, I suppose, costs a little bit of time, I suppose, to do this on YouTube and most any of to do this on YouTube and most any of to do this on YouTube and most any of them will do. We can provide a link in them will do. We can provide a link in them will do. We can provide a link in the show not captions of one that we the show not captions of one that we the show not captions of one that we like or several that we like. But by like or several that we like. But by like or several that we like. But by doing that smooth pursuit task for a bit doing that smooth pursuit task for a bit doing that smooth pursuit task for a bit each day, maybe just a minute or two, each day, maybe just a minute or two, each day, maybe just a minute or two, you're maintaining the your ability you're maintaining the your ability you're maintaining the your ability through the musculature of the eye to do through the musculature of the eye to do through the musculature of the eye to do smooth pursuit. And of course, you do smooth pursuit. And of course, you do smooth pursuit. And of course, you do smooth pursuit when you move about your smooth pursuit when you move about your smooth pursuit when you move about your day. But for people that are trying to day. But for people that are trying to day. But for people that are trying to offset or reverse vision loss, doing offset or reverse vision loss, doing offset or reverse vision loss, doing some additional deliberate smooth some additional deliberate smooth some additional deliberate smooth pursuit exercises can be useful. The pursuit exercises can be useful. The pursuit exercises can be useful. The other visual exercise that can be very other visual exercise that can be very other visual exercise that can be very useful is the so-called nearfar useful is the so-called nearfar useful is the so-called nearfar exercise. So this is uh best exercise. So this is uh best exercise. So this is uh best accomplished I think by you know holding accomplished I think by you know holding accomplished I think by you know holding out a a pen or pencil in front of um out a a pen or pencil in front of um out a a pen or pencil in front of um your eyes in front of your head and your eyes in front of your head and your eyes in front of your head and focusing very intensely through what's focusing very intensely through what's focusing very intensely through what's called a virgin eye movement where you called a virgin eye movement where you called a virgin eye movement where you bring both eyes to the tip of the pen bring both eyes to the tip of the pen bring both eyes to the tip of the pen and then moving that pen closer and and then moving that pen closer and and then moving that pen closer and closer and closer to your eyes where you closer and closer to your eyes where you closer and closer to your eyes where you get close enough that you actually have get close enough that you actually have get close enough that you actually have to deliberately bring your eyes I'm for
19:00to deliberately bring your eyes I'm for to deliberately bring your eyes I'm for those of you listening this is what I'm those of you listening this is what I'm those of you listening this is what I'm doing right now to the point where it's doing right now to the point where it's doing right now to the point where it's blurry and you can no longer hold it in blurry and you can no longer hold it in blurry and you can no longer hold it in sharp crisp relief. You can't see it sharp crisp relief. You can't see it sharp crisp relief. You can't see it sharply that is. And then you can move sharply that is. And then you can move sharply that is. And then you can move it out a little bit distance and kind of it out a little bit distance and kind of it out a little bit distance and kind of play right around that threshold where play right around that threshold where play right around that threshold where it's hard to keep it in focus now. And it's hard to keep it in focus now. And it's hard to keep it in focus now. And then move it back out again and then in then move it back out again and then in then move it back out again and then in doing that for even a minute or two doing that for even a minute or two doing that for even a minute or two you'll find is a bit of a strain on your you'll find is a bit of a strain on your you'll find is a bit of a strain on your eyes. But you can actually build up the eyes. But you can actually build up the eyes. But you can actually build up the musculature and the neuromuscular musculature and the neuromuscular musculature and the neuromuscular connections that allow you to do that connections that allow you to do that connections that allow you to do that more efficiently. And that has been more efficiently. And that has been more efficiently. And that has been shown to improve certain aspects of shown to improve certain aspects of shown to improve certain aspects of vision especially when people are vision especially when people are vision especially when people are diligent about doing those exercises. diligent about doing those exercises. diligent about doing those exercises. Not necessarily every day, but let's say Not necessarily every day, but let's say Not necessarily every day, but let's say three days a week or so. They can be three days a week or so. They can be three days a week or so. They can be very fast. I actually find them kind of very fast. I actually find them kind of very fast. I actually find them kind of fun for reasons that escape me entirely. fun for reasons that escape me entirely. fun for reasons that escape me entirely. Um, now how close you can bring that Um, now how close you can bring that Um, now how close you can bring that object and still maintain it in sharp object and still maintain it in sharp object and still maintain it in sharp focus will vary from person to person uh focus will vary from person to person uh focus will vary from person to person uh based on a number of things. First of based on a number of things. First of based on a number of things. First of all, how healthy and uh well performing all, how healthy and uh well performing all, how healthy and uh well performing their neural retina is, whether or not their neural retina is, whether or not their neural retina is, whether or not they have myopia or hyperopia, they have myopia or hyperopia, they have myopia or hyperopia, nearsightness, etc. whether or not um
20:00nearsightness, etc. whether or not um nearsightness, etc. whether or not um for instance uh you're like me and you for instance uh you're like me and you for instance uh you're like me and you have a fairly close interpupilary have a fairly close interpupilary have a fairly close interpupilary distance or whether or not you're more distance or whether or not you're more distance or whether or not you're more walleyeyed and you have your eyes set walleyeyed and you have your eyes set walleyeyed and you have your eyes set further apart. All those things will further apart. All those things will further apart. All those things will will dictate the exact performance of of will dictate the exact performance of of will dictate the exact performance of of that task. But nonetheless, it's a very that task. But nonetheless, it's a very that task. But nonetheless, it's a very useful task to do when trying to useful task to do when trying to useful task to do when trying to maintain or improve vision. Now, of maintain or improve vision. Now, of maintain or improve vision. Now, of course, there are a lot more behavioral course, there are a lot more behavioral course, there are a lot more behavioral tools that one could use to maintain or tools that one could use to maintain or tools that one could use to maintain or enhance vision. really touching on the enhance vision. really touching on the enhance vision. really touching on the biggest and what I consider the most biggest and what I consider the most biggest and what I consider the most important ones that are most accessible important ones that are most accessible important ones that are most accessible to people without the need for any fancy to people without the need for any fancy to people without the need for any fancy equipment at all. And if you want to equipment at all. And if you want to equipment at all. And if you want to learn more about other behavioral tools learn more about other behavioral tools learn more about other behavioral tools that one can use to maintain or enhance that one can use to maintain or enhance that one can use to maintain or enhance vision, please see the episode that we vision, please see the episode that we vision, please see the episode that we did on eyesight, you can simply go to did on eyesight, you can simply go to did on eyesight, you can simply go to hubmanlab.com, put into the search hubmanlab.com, put into the search hubmanlab.com, put into the search function eyesight or vision, it'll take function eyesight or vision, it'll take function eyesight or vision, it'll take you right to it. In fact, everything on you right to it. In fact, everything on you right to it. In fact, everything on that website is keyword indexed and will that website is keyword indexed and will that website is keyword indexed and will take you to the various uh episodes and take you to the various uh episodes and take you to the various uh episodes and timestamps that you're interested in uh timestamps that you're interested in uh timestamps that you're interested in uh according to that uh keyword. according to that uh keyword. according to that uh keyword. Now, the person who asked this question, Now, the person who asked this question, Now, the person who asked this question, who by the way is Paige Singer, thank who by the way is Paige Singer, thank who by the way is Paige Singer, thank you, Paige Singer. And the question got you, Paige Singer. And the question got you, Paige Singer. And the question got a lot of up votes because apparently a lot of up votes because apparently a lot of up votes because apparently there's a lot of interest in this, there's a lot of interest in this, there's a lot of interest in this, understandably so, asked about nutrition
21:00understandably so, asked about nutrition understandably so, asked about nutrition and supplements for maintaining or and supplements for maintaining or and supplements for maintaining or improving vision. Uh, that could be a improving vision. Uh, that could be a improving vision. Uh, that could be a very lengthy conversation, but let's very lengthy conversation, but let's very lengthy conversation, but let's just summarize it with a few brief just summarize it with a few brief just summarize it with a few brief points that we know stand based on the points that we know stand based on the points that we know stand based on the clinical and scientific research. clinical and scientific research. clinical and scientific research. We've all heard that carrots are good We've all heard that carrots are good We've all heard that carrots are good for your eyes. Well, it's not carrots for your eyes. Well, it's not carrots for your eyes. Well, it's not carrots per se that are good for your eyes. It's per se that are good for your eyes. It's per se that are good for your eyes. It's vitamin A that's essential for the vitamin A that's essential for the vitamin A that's essential for the so-called phototransduction cascade. The so-called phototransduction cascade. The so-called phototransduction cascade. The photo transduction cascade is the photo transduction cascade is the photo transduction cascade is the process by which the photo receptors process by which the photo receptors process by which the photo receptors which are in the back of the retina, at which are in the back of the retina, at which are in the back of the retina, at least if you're a human, they're in the least if you're a human, they're in the least if you're a human, they're in the back of the retina, take photons, light back of the retina, take photons, light back of the retina, take photons, light energy, and convert it into electrical energy, and convert it into electrical energy, and convert it into electrical signals that's then conveyed to the signals that's then conveyed to the signals that's then conveyed to the other cells and neurons within the other cells and neurons within the other cells and neurons within the retina and then passed into the brain to retina and then passed into the brain to retina and then passed into the brain to create visual percepts. create visual percepts. create visual percepts. Most people can get enough of this fat Most people can get enough of this fat Most people can get enough of this fat soluble vitamin we call vitamin A by soluble vitamin we call vitamin A by soluble vitamin we call vitamin A by making sure that they eat at least some making sure that they eat at least some making sure that they eat at least some dark green leafy vegetables and that dark green leafy vegetables and that dark green leafy vegetables and that they do that in their closest to raw they do that in their closest to raw they do that in their closest to raw form, maybe cooked a little bit but not form, maybe cooked a little bit but not form, maybe cooked a little bit but not overly cooked. There are other sources
22:00overly cooked. There are other sources overly cooked. There are other sources of vitamin A out there. You can look of vitamin A out there. You can look of vitamin A out there. You can look those up online. Just look for, you those up online. Just look for, you those up online. Just look for, you know, sources of vitamin A. Most people know, sources of vitamin A. Most people know, sources of vitamin A. Most people will be able to get enough vitamin A will be able to get enough vitamin A will be able to get enough vitamin A from their nutrition and won't require from their nutrition and won't require from their nutrition and won't require it from a supplement, provided that it's it from a supplement, provided that it's it from a supplement, provided that it's not present at excessively high levels not present at excessively high levels not present at excessively high levels in a foundational supplement or vitamin in a foundational supplement or vitamin in a foundational supplement or vitamin mineral supplement. Getting some mineral supplement. Getting some mineral supplement. Getting some additional vitamin A from a foundational additional vitamin A from a foundational additional vitamin A from a foundational supplement or vitamin mineral supplement or vitamin mineral supplement or vitamin mineral supplement, it's probably not going to supplement, it's probably not going to supplement, it's probably not going to be an issue unless you really take in be an issue unless you really take in be an issue unless you really take in far too much of that vitamin A and could far too much of that vitamin A and could far too much of that vitamin A and could potentially provide some insurance. But potentially provide some insurance. But potentially provide some insurance. But again, I think most people can get again, I think most people can get again, I think most people can get enough vitamin A from their diet if they enough vitamin A from their diet if they enough vitamin A from their diet if they are taking care to eat the foods that are taking care to eat the foods that are taking care to eat the foods that contain vitamin A. Green leafy contain vitamin A. Green leafy contain vitamin A. Green leafy vegetables being one. The other food vegetables being one. The other food vegetables being one. The other food that's known to be highly enriched in that's known to be highly enriched in that's known to be highly enriched in vitamin A is liver. One of my least vitamin A is liver. One of my least vitamin A is liver. One of my least favorite foods, regardless of what favorite foods, regardless of what favorite foods, regardless of what animal that liver comes from. Liver is animal that liver comes from. Liver is animal that liver comes from. Liver is somewhat of a popular slashcontroversial somewhat of a popular slashcontroversial somewhat of a popular slashcontroversial uh organ meat uh in the nutrition space uh organ meat uh in the nutrition space uh organ meat uh in the nutrition space for reasons that aren't interesting um for reasons that aren't interesting um for reasons that aren't interesting um for sake of this discussion. Anyway, uh for sake of this discussion. Anyway, uh for sake of this discussion. Anyway, uh I suppose for those of you that like I suppose for those of you that like I suppose for those of you that like liver, you could eat a little bit of liver, you could eat a little bit of liver, you could eat a little bit of liver every once in a while. It is, you liver every once in a while. It is, you liver every once in a while. It is, you know, rich in a number of things that
23:00know, rich in a number of things that know, rich in a number of things that are beneficial to health. Although, for are beneficial to health. Although, for are beneficial to health. Although, for you vegans out there, I'm sure you'll you vegans out there, I'm sure you'll you vegans out there, I'm sure you'll want to avoid liver entirely. I avoid want to avoid liver entirely. I avoid want to avoid liver entirely. I avoid liver because I just simply don't like liver because I just simply don't like liver because I just simply don't like the way it tastes. I've maybe once or the way it tastes. I've maybe once or the way it tastes. I've maybe once or twice I've tasted liver that was twice I've tasted liver that was twice I've tasted liver that was appetizing to me. And it can be okay, appetizing to me. And it can be okay, appetizing to me. And it can be okay, but it's just not at least by my read it but it's just not at least by my read it but it's just not at least by my read it can be okay, but it's um not a food that can be okay, but it's um not a food that can be okay, but it's um not a food that I actively seek out, order, or prepare I actively seek out, order, or prepare I actively seek out, order, or prepare for myself on a regular basis. Um so, for myself on a regular basis. Um so, for myself on a regular basis. Um so, fortunately, there are other sources of fortunately, there are other sources of fortunately, there are other sources of vitamin A as well. And again, I just vitamin A as well. And again, I just vitamin A as well. And again, I just invite you to all um put into a web invite you to all um put into a web invite you to all um put into a web search, you know, food sources of search, you know, food sources of search, you know, food sources of vitamin A and figure out how to get your vitamin A and figure out how to get your vitamin A and figure out how to get your daily dose of vitamin A by taking in daily dose of vitamin A by taking in daily dose of vitamin A by taking in foods that you like for you. And then in foods that you like for you. And then in foods that you like for you. And then in terms of supplementation of things that terms of supplementation of things that terms of supplementation of things that can enhance vision, this is a newer area can enhance vision, this is a newer area can enhance vision, this is a newer area and frankly it's an area where most of and frankly it's an area where most of and frankly it's an area where most of the data point to some supplements that the data point to some supplements that the data point to some supplements that can potentially be beneficial in certain can potentially be beneficial in certain can potentially be beneficial in certain disease conditions. So for instance in disease conditions. So for instance in disease conditions. So for instance in fairly progressed age- related macular fairly progressed age- related macular fairly progressed age- related macular degeneration, age- related macular degeneration, age- related macular degeneration, age- related macular degeneration is fairly common uh or more degeneration is fairly common uh or more degeneration is fairly common uh or more common than we would like we should say.
24:00common than we would like we should say. common than we would like we should say. Um, and it does appear that Um, and it does appear that Um, and it does appear that supplementing with certain things like supplementing with certain things like supplementing with certain things like luteine, um, which is present in eggs or luteine, um, which is present in eggs or luteine, um, which is present in eggs or egg yolks in particular, especially egg egg yolks in particular, especially egg egg yolks in particular, especially egg yolks that aren't overly cooked or that yolks that aren't overly cooked or that yolks that aren't overly cooked or that can be supplemented, can potentially can be supplemented, can potentially can be supplemented, can potentially help with some instances of age- related help with some instances of age- related help with some instances of age- related macular degeneration, but the data on macular degeneration, but the data on macular degeneration, but the data on this are still emerging. I consulted this are still emerging. I consulted this are still emerging. I consulted with our chair of opthalmology at with our chair of opthalmology at with our chair of opthalmology at Stanford about luteine and some of the Stanford about luteine and some of the Stanford about luteine and some of the other things that you'll see out there other things that you'll see out there other things that you'll see out there like zeazanthine and aazanthines and you like zeazanthine and aazanthines and you like zeazanthine and aazanthines and you know these um xanthines um come from know these um xanthines um come from know these um xanthines um come from certain fruits like blueberries and certain fruits like blueberries and certain fruits like blueberries and they're present in supplements and they're present in supplements and they're present in supplements and things of that sort. The consensus I got things of that sort. The consensus I got things of that sort. The consensus I got talking to him and talking to some other talking to him and talking to some other talking to him and talking to some other opthalmologists are that if you're opthalmologists are that if you're opthalmologists are that if you're really aiming to get a healthy diet, really aiming to get a healthy diet, really aiming to get a healthy diet, you're avoiding cigarette smoking. And you're avoiding cigarette smoking. And you're avoiding cigarette smoking. And by healthy diet, I mean getting by healthy diet, I mean getting by healthy diet, I mean getting sufficient amounts of vitamin A and sufficient amounts of vitamin A and sufficient amounts of vitamin A and luteine through food sources. Again, you luteine through food sources. Again, you luteine through food sources. Again, you can look up where those uh food sources can look up where those uh food sources can look up where those uh food sources are. Uh egg yolks just being one of are. Uh egg yolks just being one of are. Uh egg yolks just being one of them. Well, then chances are you're not
25:00them. Well, then chances are you're not them. Well, then chances are you're not going to need to supplement with luteine going to need to supplement with luteine going to need to supplement with luteine or the zeazanthines or the aazanthines. or the zeazanthines or the aazanthines. or the zeazanthines or the aazanthines. However, I have heard anecdotal reports However, I have heard anecdotal reports However, I have heard anecdotal reports from a number of people that they'll from a number of people that they'll from a number of people that they'll start taking a supplement for eye start taking a supplement for eye start taking a supplement for eye health. There are a number of them out health. There are a number of them out health. There are a number of them out there. We are not as a podcast there. We are not as a podcast there. We are not as a podcast affiliated with any of those eye health affiliated with any of those eye health affiliated with any of those eye health supplements, by the way. And people are supplements, by the way. And people are supplements, by the way. And people are reporting enhanced vision. Um, you know, reporting enhanced vision. Um, you know, reporting enhanced vision. Um, you know, I receive emails all the time that say, I receive emails all the time that say, I receive emails all the time that say, you know, I'm taking this, you know, you know, I'm taking this, you know, you know, I'm taking this, you know, luteine at 20 milligrams per day. And luteine at 20 milligrams per day. And luteine at 20 milligrams per day. And there I should mention that the dosage there I should mention that the dosage there I should mention that the dosage that's been explored in a couple of that's been explored in a couple of that's been explored in a couple of studies is 10 to 20 milligrams per day. studies is 10 to 20 milligrams per day. studies is 10 to 20 milligrams per day. Again, you could get that from foods. Again, you could get that from foods. Again, you could get that from foods. You could go above that if you're, you You could go above that if you're, you You could go above that if you're, you know, more um cavalier or you could um know, more um cavalier or you could um know, more um cavalier or you could um go toward the lower end of that 10 to 20 go toward the lower end of that 10 to 20 go toward the lower end of that 10 to 20 milligrams per day. Uh if you are milligrams per day. Uh if you are milligrams per day. Uh if you are somebody who tries to uh who's more somebody who tries to uh who's more somebody who tries to uh who's more conservative, I should say. Well, there conservative, I should say. Well, there conservative, I should say. Well, there are people out there who are um you know are people out there who are um you know are people out there who are um you know looking at luteine. They think it's looking at luteine. They think it's looking at luteine. They think it's fairly safe and they're taking higher fairly safe and they're taking higher fairly safe and they're taking higher dosages of luteine, so 20 30 milligrams dosages of luteine, so 20 30 milligrams dosages of luteine, so 20 30 milligrams per day. They're also taking supplements per day. They're also taking supplements per day. They're also taking supplements that contain zazanthines and aazanthines that contain zazanthines and aazanthines that contain zazanthines and aazanthines and are reporting anecdotally that their
26:00and are reporting anecdotally that their and are reporting anecdotally that their vision is enhanced. I don't dispute vision is enhanced. I don't dispute vision is enhanced. I don't dispute those claims. Um, but as of now, there those claims. Um, but as of now, there those claims. Um, but as of now, there aren't many papers. I could only find aren't many papers. I could only find aren't many papers. I could only find about four. Three really solid ones and about four. Three really solid ones and about four. Three really solid ones and then a fourth that point to the specific then a fourth that point to the specific then a fourth that point to the specific disease instances where supplementing disease instances where supplementing disease instances where supplementing with luteine, zeazanthine or asisanthine with luteine, zeazanthine or asisanthine with luteine, zeazanthine or asisanthine can be beneficial for slowing the can be beneficial for slowing the can be beneficial for slowing the progression of things like advanced progression of things like advanced progression of things like advanced onset age related macular degeneration. onset age related macular degeneration. onset age related macular degeneration. And the degree of offset for that And the degree of offset for that And the degree of offset for that macular degeneration was slight. wasn't macular degeneration was slight. wasn't macular degeneration was slight. wasn't enormous, but it was robust enough that enormous, but it was robust enough that enormous, but it was robust enough that it was it warranted reporting in the it was it warranted reporting in the it was it warranted reporting in the paper or things like levers, which is a paper or things like levers, which is a paper or things like levers, which is a particular eye disease. It impacts a particular eye disease. It impacts a particular eye disease. It impacts a whole different set of systems in the whole different set of systems in the whole different set of systems in the eye. So, basically what I'm trying to eye. So, basically what I'm trying to eye. So, basically what I'm trying to say is when it comes to supplements to say is when it comes to supplements to say is when it comes to supplements to support eye health, make sure you're support eye health, make sure you're support eye health, make sure you're getting enough vitamin A from your diet. getting enough vitamin A from your diet. getting enough vitamin A from your diet. If you're not, consider supplementation If you're not, consider supplementation If you're not, consider supplementation or consider changing your diet somewhat or consider changing your diet somewhat or consider changing your diet somewhat to make sure you can get that luteine to make sure you can get that luteine to make sure you can get that luteine and vitamin A. And if you are interested and vitamin A. And if you are interested and vitamin A. And if you are interested in it and it's within your budget, I in it and it's within your budget, I in it and it's within your budget, I don't know of any um evidence that
27:00don't know of any um evidence that don't know of any um evidence that supplementing with additional lutein, supplementing with additional lutein, supplementing with additional lutein, zeazanthine, and aazanthine can be zeazanthine, and aazanthine can be zeazanthine, and aazanthine can be dangerous at all. So for those of you dangerous at all. So for those of you dangerous at all. So for those of you that are really interested in that are really interested in that are really interested in maintaining or improving your vision, maintaining or improving your vision, maintaining or improving your vision, that might be an area that you want to that might be an area that you want to that might be an area that you want to explore. I personally am not taking explore. I personally am not taking explore. I personally am not taking lutein, zeazanthine, or aazanthine, at lutein, zeazanthine, or aazanthine, at lutein, zeazanthine, or aazanthine, at least not at this time. I do take a least not at this time. I do take a least not at this time. I do take a foundational supplement uh which is my foundational supplement uh which is my foundational supplement uh which is my source of vitamin A in addition to my source of vitamin A in addition to my source of vitamin A in addition to my food sources. Um, but I don't suffer food sources. Um, but I don't suffer food sources. Um, but I don't suffer from vision loss. I do wear readers at from vision loss. I do wear readers at from vision loss. I do wear readers at night and I have for a long time. I have night and I have for a long time. I have night and I have for a long time. I have a little bit of a a muscular weakness in a little bit of a a muscular weakness in a little bit of a a muscular weakness in one of my eyes. Um, that originated in one of my eyes. Um, that originated in one of my eyes. Um, that originated in childhood. Um, so occasionally if I get childhood. Um, so occasionally if I get childhood. Um, so occasionally if I get very fatigued, one of my eyes will very fatigued, one of my eyes will very fatigued, one of my eyes will deviate a little bit. A little bit of um deviate a little bit. A little bit of um deviate a little bit. A little bit of um almost stbismas. Uh, especially if I've almost stbismas. Uh, especially if I've almost stbismas. Uh, especially if I've been awake for very long periods of been awake for very long periods of been awake for very long periods of time, it tends to recover once I get a time, it tends to recover once I get a time, it tends to recover once I get a good night's sleep. Some of you that good night's sleep. Some of you that good night's sleep. Some of you that have experienced this where you have one have experienced this where you have one have experienced this where you have one eye that might just drift a little bit. eye that might just drift a little bit. eye that might just drift a little bit. I could do this for the camera if you I could do this for the camera if you I could do this for the camera if you want. Okay, this is weird. I used to do want. Okay, this is weird. I used to do want. Okay, this is weird. I used to do this um to my sister across the table this um to my sister across the table this um to my sister across the table when we were at a friend's houses for when we were at a friend's houses for when we were at a friend's houses for dinner. So, I can actually move one of dinner. So, I can actually move one of dinner. So, I can actually move one of my eyes in like this, which actually my eyes in like this, which actually my eyes in like this, which actually just reflects that there's a a muscle
28:00just reflects that there's a a muscle just reflects that there's a a muscle extracular muscle closer to my nose extracular muscle closer to my nose extracular muscle closer to my nose that's rather weak, which allows me to that's rather weak, which allows me to that's rather weak, which allows me to kind of do that. I can't do it so well kind of do that. I can't do it so well kind of do that. I can't do it so well with the opposite eye. Um anyway, now I with the opposite eye. Um anyway, now I with the opposite eye. Um anyway, now I need to blink to kind of clear my need to blink to kind of clear my need to blink to kind of clear my vision. But the point is that if you're vision. But the point is that if you're vision. But the point is that if you're somebody who has a slightly deviating somebody who has a slightly deviating somebody who has a slightly deviating eye slightly, eye slightly, eye slightly, often if you go to the opthalmologist or often if you go to the opthalmologist or often if you go to the opthalmologist or optometrist, they're going to give you a optometrist, they're going to give you a optometrist, they're going to give you a prism lens which is going to redirect prism lens which is going to redirect prism lens which is going to redirect the image onto that slightly deflected the image onto that slightly deflected the image onto that slightly deflected eyeball. One thing you'll really want to eyeball. One thing you'll really want to eyeball. One thing you'll really want to discuss with that opthalmologist discuss with that opthalmologist discuss with that opthalmologist or optometrist is whether or not there or optometrist is whether or not there or optometrist is whether or not there are exercises that you could do to are exercises that you could do to are exercises that you could do to overcome that issue without the need for overcome that issue without the need for overcome that issue without the need for a prism. Because what I saw and what a prism. Because what I saw and what a prism. Because what I saw and what many other people see when they put on a many other people see when they put on a many other people see when they put on a prism lens is that indeed it can um line prism lens is that indeed it can um line prism lens is that indeed it can um line up their vision or their visual up their vision or their visual up their vision or their visual perception better. But indeed it can perception better. But indeed it can perception better. But indeed it can lead to progressive weakening of the lead to progressive weakening of the lead to progressive weakening of the muscle further and further so then that muscle further and further so then that muscle further and further so then that eyeball starts to deviate further and eyeball starts to deviate further and eyeball starts to deviate further and further. And that raises a larger further. And that raises a larger further. And that raises a larger question which is should we wear question which is should we wear question which is should we wear corrective lenses? In fact, if you go corrective lenses? In fact, if you go corrective lenses? In fact, if you go online, you'll find or hear about these online, you'll find or hear about these online, you'll find or hear about these examples of people that stopped wearing examples of people that stopped wearing examples of people that stopped wearing their corrective lenses, their glasses their corrective lenses, their glasses their corrective lenses, their glasses or contacts in order to bring their
29:00or contacts in order to bring their or contacts in order to bring their vision back or improve their vision on vision back or improve their vision on vision back or improve their vision on their own. Now, if your vision is quite their own. Now, if your vision is quite their own. Now, if your vision is quite impaired, you're going to need impaired, you're going to need impaired, you're going to need corrective lenses or contacts. However, corrective lenses or contacts. However, corrective lenses or contacts. However, there are a number of people out there there are a number of people out there there are a number of people out there who find that if their vision is who find that if their vision is who find that if their vision is somewhat impaired that forcing somewhat impaired that forcing somewhat impaired that forcing themselves to view things at a distance, themselves to view things at a distance, themselves to view things at a distance, to do smooth pursuit, to do near far, to do smooth pursuit, to do near far, to do smooth pursuit, to do near far, and to make sure that they're getting and to make sure that they're getting and to make sure that they're getting adequate nutrition and things of that adequate nutrition and things of that adequate nutrition and things of that sort can all sum to help offset some of sort can all sum to help offset some of sort can all sum to help offset some of the visual impairment that would occur the visual impairment that would occur the visual impairment that would occur if they were to just pop glasses on if they were to just pop glasses on if they were to just pop glasses on their face and um and rely on the their face and um and rely on the their face and um and rely on the corrective lenses in order to focus that corrective lenses in order to focus that corrective lenses in order to focus that the light onto the correct um area the light onto the correct um area the light onto the correct um area within the eye, onto the neural retina. within the eye, onto the neural retina. within the eye, onto the neural retina. So, I'm not telling people to throw off So, I'm not telling people to throw off So, I'm not telling people to throw off or or get rid of their corrective lenses or or get rid of their corrective lenses or or get rid of their corrective lenses and contacts, but you can be overly and contacts, but you can be overly and contacts, but you can be overly reliant on these things like a crutch in reliant on these things like a crutch in reliant on these things like a crutch in a way that perhaps you want to do a a way that perhaps you want to do a a way that perhaps you want to do a little bit of work to try and overcome little bit of work to try and overcome little bit of work to try and overcome and then maybe work with a weaker and then maybe work with a weaker and then maybe work with a weaker prescription. And certainly in the case prescription. And certainly in the case prescription. And certainly in the case of prism lenses, uh what I mentioned of prism lenses, uh what I mentioned of prism lenses, uh what I mentioned before is a real consideration. It's one before is a real consideration. It's one before is a real consideration. It's one I'm very familiar with. So, as a last I'm very familiar with. So, as a last I'm very familiar with. So, as a last but I think very important and exciting
30:00but I think very important and exciting but I think very important and exciting feature of visual improvement is red feature of visual improvement is red feature of visual improvement is red light. I talked a little bit about this light. I talked a little bit about this light. I talked a little bit about this on the episode of the Hubin Lab podcast on the episode of the Hubin Lab podcast on the episode of the Hubin Lab podcast all about light and health. There's some all about light and health. There's some all about light and health. There's some really spectacular I think I consider it really spectacular I think I consider it really spectacular I think I consider it spectacular. Many other people consider spectacular. Many other people consider spectacular. Many other people consider it spectacular research out of it spectacular research out of it spectacular research out of University of College London. And the University of College London. And the University of College London. And the work I'm referring to is Glenn Jeffy's work I'm referring to is Glenn Jeffy's work I'm referring to is Glenn Jeffy's work. I've known Glenn for a long time. work. I've known Glenn for a long time. work. I've known Glenn for a long time. These are animal studies and now two These are animal studies and now two These are animal studies and now two human studies exploring how exposure to human studies exploring how exposure to human studies exploring how exposure to red light red light red light early in the day can offset some of the early in the day can offset some of the early in the day can offset some of the vision loss related to age related vision loss related to age related vision loss related to age related macular degeneration or simply age macular degeneration or simply age macular degeneration or simply age related visual decline. Now, there's a related visual decline. Now, there's a related visual decline. Now, there's a whole mechanism here that's discussed in whole mechanism here that's discussed in whole mechanism here that's discussed in that episode, but it has to do with the that episode, but it has to do with the that episode, but it has to do with the fact that red light and near infrared fact that red light and near infrared fact that red light and near infrared light together or maybe even separately light together or maybe even separately light together or maybe even separately when viewed for even just a minute to when viewed for even just a minute to when viewed for even just a minute to three minutes once or maybe two or three three minutes once or maybe two or three three minutes once or maybe two or three times per week maximum can actually times per week maximum can actually times per week maximum can actually reduce the number of what are called reduce the number of what are called reduce the number of what are called reactive oxygen species in the photo reactive oxygen species in the photo reactive oxygen species in the photo receptors that convert photons into receptors that convert photons into receptors that convert photons into electrical signals the rest of the electrical signals the rest of the electrical signals the rest of the visual system can understand. So, that's
31:00visual system can understand. So, that's visual system can understand. So, that's a mouthful. Basically, what they found a mouthful. Basically, what they found a mouthful. Basically, what they found was for people 40 years or older, was for people 40 years or older, was for people 40 years or older, if they viewed this red light at a if they viewed this red light at a if they viewed this red light at a distance of about a foot and a half, distance of about a foot and a half, distance of about a foot and a half, although I wouldn't get too specific although I wouldn't get too specific although I wouldn't get too specific with this, for a few minutes each week with this, for a few minutes each week with this, for a few minutes each week total, they were able to offset some of total, they were able to offset some of total, they were able to offset some of the vision loss within a particular the vision loss within a particular the vision loss within a particular domain of vision. And I don't have time domain of vision. And I don't have time domain of vision. And I don't have time to go into the details here, but because to go into the details here, but because to go into the details here, but because I do that in the light for health I do that in the light for health I do that in the light for health episode, but you have different types of episode, but you have different types of episode, but you have different types of photo receptors, cones and rods. You photo receptors, cones and rods. You photo receptors, cones and rods. You have different types of cone photo have different types of cone photo have different types of cone photo receptors that respond to different receptors that respond to different receptors that respond to different wavelengths of light. Short, medium, and wavelengths of light. Short, medium, and wavelengths of light. Short, medium, and long wavelengths of light, so-called long wavelengths of light, so-called long wavelengths of light, so-called blue, green, and red cones, they're blue, green, and red cones, they're blue, green, and red cones, they're sometimes called. When these people who sometimes called. When these people who sometimes called. When these people who are 40 years or older viewed red light are 40 years or older viewed red light are 40 years or older viewed red light on a consistent basis early in the day, on a consistent basis early in the day, on a consistent basis early in the day, and it did have to be early in the day, and it did have to be early in the day, and it did have to be early in the day, there was a real circadian effect there. there was a real circadian effect there. there was a real circadian effect there. there was a there was a there was a offset of some of the vision loss that offset of some of the vision loss that offset of some of the vision loss that would normally occur in a particular would normally occur in a particular would normally occur in a particular wavelength of light range that resulted wavelength of light range that resulted wavelength of light range that resulted in better visual acuity overall. So if
32:00in better visual acuity overall. So if in better visual acuity overall. So if you're very concerned about your vision you're very concerned about your vision you're very concerned about your vision or you're into red light therapies, etc. or you're into red light therapies, etc. or you're into red light therapies, etc. There are a number of different red There are a number of different red There are a number of different red light devices out there. At some future light devices out there. At some future light devices out there. At some future point, the Hubin Lab podcast may partner point, the Hubin Lab podcast may partner point, the Hubin Lab podcast may partner with one of these red light companies. with one of these red light companies. with one of these red light companies. Um so right now I'm not going to mention Um so right now I'm not going to mention Um so right now I'm not going to mention any of them in particular. They're any of them in particular. They're any of them in particular. They're prominent online. And what you're prominent online. And what you're prominent online. And what you're looking for is a red light unit that looking for is a red light unit that looking for is a red light unit that provides red light and maybe far in near provides red light and maybe far in near provides red light and maybe far in near infrared, excuse me, light as well. So infrared, excuse me, light as well. So infrared, excuse me, light as well. So something in the, you know, 650 to something in the, you know, 650 to something in the, you know, 650 to 720ish 720ish 720ish nanometer range. So really, you know, nanometer range. So really, you know, nanometer range. So really, you know, it's going to look red or almost it's going to look red or almost it's going to look red or almost invisible to you if it's really, you invisible to you if it's really, you invisible to you if it's really, you know, really far into the infrared. And know, really far into the infrared. And know, really far into the infrared. And you'll want to view that at a distance you'll want to view that at a distance you'll want to view that at a distance of about a foot and a half to two feet. of about a foot and a half to two feet. of about a foot and a half to two feet. And you don't want it to be so bright And you don't want it to be so bright And you don't want it to be so bright that it's painful to look at, okay? that it's painful to look at, okay? that it's painful to look at, okay? Because you don't want to damage your Because you don't want to damage your Because you don't want to damage your eyes. But that's essentially what they eyes. But that's essentially what they eyes. But that's essentially what they used in these studies from the Jeffrey used in these studies from the Jeffrey used in these studies from the Jeffrey lab. And they showed um some pretty lab. And they showed um some pretty lab. And they showed um some pretty impressive offset of some of the aspects impressive offset of some of the aspects impressive offset of some of the aspects of vision loss in these people 40 and of vision loss in these people 40 and of vision loss in these people 40 and older. So that's an area that uh you may older. So that's an area that uh you may older. So that's an area that uh you may want to explore as well, especially for want to explore as well, especially for want to explore as well, especially for folks 40 and older. And again, this red folks 40 and older. And again, this red folks 40 and older. And again, this red light exposure had to be done early in
33:00light exposure had to be done early in light exposure had to be done early in the day. So hopefully that collection of the day. So hopefully that collection of the day. So hopefully that collection of behavioral tools near far smooth smooth behavioral tools near far smooth smooth behavioral tools near far smooth smooth pursuit some of the discussion about pursuit some of the discussion about pursuit some of the discussion about luteine nutrition vitamin A luteine nutrition vitamin A luteine nutrition vitamin A supplementation zeazanthines aazanthines supplementation zeazanthines aazanthines supplementation zeazanthines aazanthines uh getting two hours of light exposure uh getting two hours of light exposure uh getting two hours of light exposure outside sunlight exposure get outside to outside sunlight exposure get outside to outside sunlight exposure get outside to do some of your work and perhaps even do some of your work and perhaps even do some of your work and perhaps even deliberate red light exposure for deliberate red light exposure for deliberate red light exposure for certain people can be used to offset certain people can be used to offset certain people can be used to offset your concerns and your actual potential your concerns and your actual potential your concerns and your actual potential vision loss and maybe even improve your vision loss and maybe even improve your vision loss and maybe even improve your vision regardless of what age you are. vision regardless of what age you are. vision regardless of what age you are. Everything I described is supported from Everything I described is supported from Everything I described is supported from the peerreview literature. And again, if the peerreview literature. And again, if the peerreview literature. And again, if you want to get the deep dive on you want to get the deep dive on you want to get the deep dive on mechanism and further information about mechanism and further information about mechanism and further information about dosages, please check out the episode on dosages, please check out the episode on dosages, please check out the episode on eyesight and improving your eyesight and eyesight and improving your eyesight and eyesight and improving your eyesight and the light for health episode again at the light for health episode again at the light for health episode again at hubermanlab.com. hubermanlab.com. hubermanlab.com. Thank you for joining for the beginning Thank you for joining for the beginning Thank you for joining for the beginning of this ask me anything episode. to hear of this ask me anything episode. to hear of this ask me anything episode. to hear the full episode and to hear future the full episode and to hear future the full episode and to hear future episodes of these Ask Me Anything episodes of these Ask Me Anything episodes of these Ask Me Anything sessions, plus to receive transcripts of sessions, plus to receive transcripts of sessions, plus to receive transcripts of them and transcripts of the Hubman Lab them and transcripts of the Hubman Lab them and transcripts of the Hubman Lab podcast standard channel and premium
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37:00can pay $100 all at once to get an entire 12-month subscription for a year. entire 12-month subscription for a year. entire 12-month subscription for a year. We also have a lifetime subscription feed. And for those of you that are not Hubman Lab podcast premium subscribers, Hubman Lab podcast premium subscribers, Hubman Lab podcast premium subscribers, you can still hear the first 20 minutes you can still hear the first 20 minutes you can still hear the first 20 minutes of today's episode and determine whether of today's episode and determine whether of today's episode and determine whether or not becoming a premium subscriber is or not becoming a premium subscriber is or not becoming a premium subscriber is for you. Without further ado, let's get for you. Without further ado, let's get for you. Without further ado, let's get to answering your questions. The first to answering your questions. The first to answering your questions. The first question asks, is it possible to get a question asks, is it possible to get a question asks, is it possible to get a cold or to get sick from deliberate cold cold or to get sick from deliberate cold cold or to get sick from deliberate cold exposure? And I suppose a related exposure? And I suppose a related exposure? And I suppose a related question is, should you even do question is, should you even do question is, should you even do deliberate cold exposure if you have a deliberate cold exposure if you have a deliberate cold exposure if you have a sniffle, a cold, or a flu? I get that sniffle, a cold, or a flu? I get that sniffle, a cold, or a flu? I get that question all the time as well. So, I'll question all the time as well. So, I'll question all the time as well. So, I'll answer both of those questions and I answer both of those questions and I answer both of those questions and I will also touch on some of the immune will also touch on some of the immune will also touch on some of the immune enhancing effects of deliberate cold enhancing effects of deliberate cold enhancing effects of deliberate cold exposure. But just to make sure that we exposure. But just to make sure that we exposure. But just to make sure that we answer the specific question asked here
38:00answer the specific question asked here answer the specific question asked here right off the bat, is it possible to get right off the bat, is it possible to get right off the bat, is it possible to get a cold or to get sick from deliberate a cold or to get sick from deliberate a cold or to get sick from deliberate cold exposure? Well, assuming that cold exposure? Well, assuming that cold exposure? Well, assuming that you're not doing the deliberate cold you're not doing the deliberate cold you're not doing the deliberate cold exposure for more than say five or six exposure for more than say five or six exposure for more than say five or six minutes at one stretch, minutes at one stretch, minutes at one stretch, probably not directly from the probably not directly from the probably not directly from the deliberate cold exposure. I mention that deliberate cold exposure. I mention that deliberate cold exposure. I mention that because most people are doing anywhere because most people are doing anywhere because most people are doing anywhere from about a minute to three minutes, from about a minute to three minutes, from about a minute to three minutes, sometimes five or six minutes and maybe sometimes five or six minutes and maybe sometimes five or six minutes and maybe for those of you that are really pushing for those of you that are really pushing for those of you that are really pushing it 10 minutes of deliberate cold it 10 minutes of deliberate cold it 10 minutes of deliberate cold exposure. And most often after doing exposure. And most often after doing exposure. And most often after doing that deliberate cold exposure, people that deliberate cold exposure, people that deliberate cold exposure, people are either getting clothed or they're are either getting clothed or they're are either getting clothed or they're getting into a sauna or they're taking a getting into a sauna or they're taking a getting into a sauna or they're taking a hot shower and then getting clothed and hot shower and then getting clothed and hot shower and then getting clothed and heading off into their day or off to heading off into their day or off to heading off into their day or off to sleep. Depending on what time of day or sleep. Depending on what time of day or sleep. Depending on what time of day or night you happen to do your deliberate night you happen to do your deliberate night you happen to do your deliberate cold exposure, we can safely say that if cold exposure, we can safely say that if cold exposure, we can safely say that if you warm up after a relatively brief, you warm up after a relatively brief, you warm up after a relatively brief, meaning one minute to let's extend out meaning one minute to let's extend out meaning one minute to let's extend out to 10 minutes, 10-minute deliberate cold to 10 minutes, 10-minute deliberate cold to 10 minutes, 10-minute deliberate cold exposure, although I really want to exposure, although I really want to exposure, although I really want to caution people to not do 10-minute caution people to not do 10-minute caution people to not do 10-minute deliberate cold exposure right off the deliberate cold exposure right off the deliberate cold exposure right off the bat. If you are somebody who is not bat. If you are somebody who is not bat. If you are somebody who is not accustomed to it, don't jump right up to
39:00accustomed to it, don't jump right up to accustomed to it, don't jump right up to that uh long exposure to cold water. that uh long exposure to cold water. that uh long exposure to cold water. Start with shorter exposures. But if Start with shorter exposures. But if Start with shorter exposures. But if you're doing that 1 to 10 minute you're doing that 1 to 10 minute you're doing that 1 to 10 minute deliberate cold exposure and then you're deliberate cold exposure and then you're deliberate cold exposure and then you're getting warm afterwards and heading getting warm afterwards and heading getting warm afterwards and heading about your day, I can't see how the about your day, I can't see how the about your day, I can't see how the deliberate cold exposure itself would deliberate cold exposure itself would deliberate cold exposure itself would enhance your susceptibility to getting enhance your susceptibility to getting enhance your susceptibility to getting sick. That said, we know from an sick. That said, we know from an sick. That said, we know from an enormous number of studies that have enormous number of studies that have enormous number of studies that have looked at cold virus transmission and looked at cold virus transmission and looked at cold virus transmission and other forms of viral and bacterial other forms of viral and bacterial other forms of viral and bacterial transmission that the environment that transmission that the environment that transmission that the environment that you happen to be in does impact your you happen to be in does impact your you happen to be in does impact your susceptibility to colds and other types susceptibility to colds and other types susceptibility to colds and other types of viruses and to bacterial infections of viruses and to bacterial infections of viruses and to bacterial infections in the following way. There have been in the following way. There have been in the following way. There have been controlled studies in which people go controlled studies in which people go controlled studies in which people go into laboratories. Those laboratories into laboratories. Those laboratories into laboratories. Those laboratories have rooms in which they can very have rooms in which they can very have rooms in which they can very tightly control the humidity. So tightly control the humidity. So tightly control the humidity. So essentially the water content in the air essentially the water content in the air essentially the water content in the air as well as the temperature in the room. as well as the temperature in the room. as well as the temperature in the room. And if you look at the total mass of And if you look at the total mass of And if you look at the total mass of those data, we can say a couple of those data, we can say a couple of those data, we can say a couple of specific things in kind of bullet point
40:00specific things in kind of bullet point specific things in kind of bullet point fashion. First off, cold dry air does fashion. First off, cold dry air does fashion. First off, cold dry air does seem to increase our susceptibility to seem to increase our susceptibility to seem to increase our susceptibility to viral and bacterial infections because viral and bacterial infections because viral and bacterial infections because whether or not you're a mouth breather whether or not you're a mouth breather whether or not you're a mouth breather or a nose breather, and by the way, I or a nose breather, and by the way, I or a nose breather, and by the way, I suggest everyone be a nose breather, suggest everyone be a nose breather, suggest everyone be a nose breather, unless you're exercising hard enough unless you're exercising hard enough unless you're exercising hard enough that you have to breathe through your that you have to breathe through your that you have to breathe through your mouth or you're talking or something of mouth or you're talking or something of mouth or you're talking or something of that sort. But if you're a nose breather that sort. But if you're a nose breather that sort. But if you're a nose breather or a mouth breather or both, or a mouth breather or both, or a mouth breather or both, viruses and bacteria enter through your viruses and bacteria enter through your viruses and bacteria enter through your nose and mouth, sometimes through your nose and mouth, sometimes through your nose and mouth, sometimes through your eyes, but your nose and mouth are going eyes, but your nose and mouth are going eyes, but your nose and mouth are going to be the main sites of entry and your to be the main sites of entry and your to be the main sites of entry and your main barriers to viral and bacterial main barriers to viral and bacterial main barriers to viral and bacterial infections. In fact, one of the ways you infections. In fact, one of the ways you infections. In fact, one of the ways you are constantly fighting off bacterial are constantly fighting off bacterial are constantly fighting off bacterial and viral infections that you're exposed and viral infections that you're exposed and viral infections that you're exposed to all the time is by way of those to all the time is by way of those to all the time is by way of those viruses and bacteria getting trapped in viruses and bacteria getting trapped in viruses and bacteria getting trapped in the mucous lining of your nose or your the mucous lining of your nose or your the mucous lining of your nose or your mouth. most notably in the back of your mouth. most notably in the back of your mouth. most notably in the back of your throat. So if you spend time in cold, throat. So if you spend time in cold, throat. So if you spend time in cold, dry environments, there is a tendency dry environments, there is a tendency dry environments, there is a tendency for that mucosal lining to be thinner. for that mucosal lining to be thinner. for that mucosal lining to be thinner. There is a tendency for that mucosal There is a tendency for that mucosal
41:00There is a tendency for that mucosal lining to not be as robust in general. lining to not be as robust in general. lining to not be as robust in general. When I say robust, what I mean is that When I say robust, what I mean is that When I say robust, what I mean is that if you're mouth breathing, for instance, if you're mouth breathing, for instance, if you're mouth breathing, for instance, in a cold, dry environment, I'm thinking in a cold, dry environment, I'm thinking in a cold, dry environment, I'm thinking um from the time I spent in Cambridge, um from the time I spent in Cambridge, um from the time I spent in Cambridge, Massachusetts in winter at the tea Massachusetts in winter at the tea Massachusetts in winter at the tea station, you know, if you're I'm just station, you know, if you're I'm just station, you know, if you're I'm just imagining myself because it was so darn imagining myself because it was so darn imagining myself because it was so darn cold back there, you know, breathing cold back there, you know, breathing cold back there, you know, breathing through your mouth or having gone for a through your mouth or having gone for a through your mouth or having gone for a run and your mouth isn't covered or even run and your mouth isn't covered or even run and your mouth isn't covered or even if you're deliberately nasal breathing, if you're deliberately nasal breathing, if you're deliberately nasal breathing, you are drying out your nasal passages you are drying out your nasal passages you are drying out your nasal passages and making them more susceptible to and making them more susceptible to and making them more susceptible to infections. Does that necessarily mean infections. Does that necessarily mean infections. Does that necessarily mean that every time you go out in cold, dry that every time you go out in cold, dry that every time you go out in cold, dry air that you're going to get an air that you're going to get an air that you're going to get an infection? No, of course it doesn't. But infection? No, of course it doesn't. But infection? No, of course it doesn't. But to relate this back to the question we to relate this back to the question we to relate this back to the question we had before, there are a lot of data had before, there are a lot of data had before, there are a lot of data pointing to the fact that more humid pointing to the fact that more humid pointing to the fact that more humid warm environments are going to make your warm environments are going to make your warm environments are going to make your mucosal lining and the general upper mucosal lining and the general upper mucosal lining and the general upper respiratory area more I don't want to respiratory area more I don't want to respiratory area more I don't want to say immune because I don't want to say immune because I don't want to say immune because I don't want to conflate that word with the other conflate that word with the other conflate that word with the other meaning of immune. It's going to make it meaning of immune. It's going to make it meaning of immune. It's going to make it more robust against more robust against more robust against bacterial and viral infections. Okay? bacterial and viral infections. Okay?
42:00bacterial and viral infections. Okay? So, if you get into a cold shower or a So, if you get into a cold shower or a So, if you get into a cold shower or a cold plunge or a cold ocean or a cold cold plunge or a cold ocean or a cold cold plunge or a cold ocean or a cold lake and then you get out and you're out lake and then you get out and you're out lake and then you get out and you're out there, you know, shivering and shaking there, you know, shivering and shaking there, you know, shivering and shaking trying to boost your metabolism or trying to boost your metabolism or trying to boost your metabolism or whatever it is that you're doing it for, whatever it is that you're doing it for, whatever it is that you're doing it for, and it's cold, dry air, and especially and it's cold, dry air, and especially and it's cold, dry air, and especially if you're mouth breathing in that cold, if you're mouth breathing in that cold, if you're mouth breathing in that cold, dry air. Yes, I could see how that might dry air. Yes, I could see how that might dry air. Yes, I could see how that might lead to a higher probability of getting lead to a higher probability of getting lead to a higher probability of getting a cold or other type of infection, but a cold or other type of infection, but a cold or other type of infection, but there's nothing specific about the there's nothing specific about the there's nothing specific about the deliberate cold exposure itself that can deliberate cold exposure itself that can deliberate cold exposure itself that can induce a cold or other type of induce a cold or other type of induce a cold or other type of infection, assuming that the water is infection, assuming that the water is infection, assuming that the water is clean, right? We're not talking about clean, right? We're not talking about clean, right? We're not talking about bacterial infections of cuts on the bacterial infections of cuts on the bacterial infections of cuts on the skin, etc. We're talking about colds and skin, etc. We're talking about colds and skin, etc. We're talking about colds and other forms of being sick, namely upper other forms of being sick, namely upper other forms of being sick, namely upper respiratory infections. Okay? Now, with respiratory infections. Okay? Now, with respiratory infections. Okay? Now, with that said, I often get asked whether or that said, I often get asked whether or that said, I often get asked whether or not for people who already have a little not for people who already have a little not for people who already have a little sniffle, they're feeling a little rund sniffle, they're feeling a little rund sniffle, they're feeling a little rund down or perhaps a lot run down, should down or perhaps a lot run down, should down or perhaps a lot run down, should they do deliberate cold exposure? And they do deliberate cold exposure? And they do deliberate cold exposure? And it's a little tricky to give a it's a little tricky to give a it's a little tricky to give a one-sizefits-all answer, but I think we
43:00one-sizefits-all answer, but I think we one-sizefits-all answer, but I think we can safely say that if you are feeling can safely say that if you are feeling can safely say that if you are feeling malaise, if you're feeling like you have malaise, if you're feeling like you have malaise, if you're feeling like you have to rest, you're tired, you're not to rest, you're tired, you're not to rest, you're tired, you're not feeling good because of a cold or feeling good because of a cold or feeling good because of a cold or because of a flu or because of a because of a flu or because of a because of a flu or because of a bacterial infection. Okay. Now, I'm not bacterial infection. Okay. Now, I'm not bacterial infection. Okay. Now, I'm not saying just feeling not good. I'm saying saying just feeling not good. I'm saying saying just feeling not good. I'm saying feeling not good due to a cold or other feeling not good due to a cold or other feeling not good due to a cold or other form of virus or bacterial infection. form of virus or bacterial infection. form of virus or bacterial infection. Then I would say stay out of deliberate Then I would say stay out of deliberate Then I would say stay out of deliberate cold exposure. Don't use it. Now, why cold exposure. Don't use it. Now, why cold exposure. Don't use it. Now, why would I say that given the data I'll would I say that given the data I'll would I say that given the data I'll talk about in a few minutes showing that talk about in a few minutes showing that talk about in a few minutes showing that regular deliberate cold exposure, if regular deliberate cold exposure, if regular deliberate cold exposure, if done correctly, can in fact increase done correctly, can in fact increase done correctly, can in fact increase immune system markers and perhaps even immune system markers and perhaps even immune system markers and perhaps even make you much more robust to combating make you much more robust to combating make you much more robust to combating different types of infection through the different types of infection through the different types of infection through the release of adrenaline. We'll talk about release of adrenaline. We'll talk about release of adrenaline. We'll talk about what all that looks like in a moment in what all that looks like in a moment in what all that looks like in a moment in terms of protocols and some of the terms of protocols and some of the terms of protocols and some of the science. But to just be very clear and science. But to just be very clear and science. But to just be very clear and very direct, if you're sick, stay out of very direct, if you're sick, stay out of very direct, if you're sick, stay out of deliberate cold exposure there. I would deliberate cold exposure there. I would deliberate cold exposure there. I would instead recommend warmer hot baths, instead recommend warmer hot baths, instead recommend warmer hot baths, warmer hot showers, the sauna, etc. But warmer hot showers, the sauna, etc. But
44:00warmer hot showers, the sauna, etc. But I also would caution that if you are I also would caution that if you are I also would caution that if you are getting into saunas that are too hot, getting into saunas that are too hot, getting into saunas that are too hot, you know, saunas that are so hot that you know, saunas that are so hot that you know, saunas that are so hot that it's stressful for you. And again, a lot it's stressful for you. And again, a lot it's stressful for you. And again, a lot of people use deliberate heat exposure of people use deliberate heat exposure of people use deliberate heat exposure because of the stress it induces. because of the stress it induces. because of the stress it induces. they're doing um some heat induced for they're doing um some heat induced for they're doing um some heat induced for instance heat shock proteins and instance heat shock proteins and instance heat shock proteins and different ways of increasing heart rate different ways of increasing heart rate different ways of increasing heart rate that's a different sort of thing that's that's a different sort of thing that's that's a different sort of thing that's hard stressful in order to generate an hard stressful in order to generate an hard stressful in order to generate an adaptation I don't recommend doing that adaptation I don't recommend doing that adaptation I don't recommend doing that in fact I don't recommend doing in fact I don't recommend doing in fact I don't recommend doing deliberate cold exposure exercise or deliberate cold exposure exercise or deliberate cold exposure exercise or deliberate heat exposure if you're deliberate heat exposure if you're deliberate heat exposure if you're feeling really not well now if you're feeling really not well now if you're feeling really not well now if you're feeling just a little bit not well feeling just a little bit not well feeling just a little bit not well you're feeling a little bit rund down a you're feeling a little bit rund down a you're feeling a little bit rund down a little bit of sniffle bit of malaise little bit of sniffle bit of malaise little bit of sniffle bit of malaise well then it's kind of an edge case well then it's kind of an edge case well then it's kind of an edge case where we could say, "All right, you know where we could say, "All right, you know where we could say, "All right, you know what? Just take a hot shower and go to what? Just take a hot shower and go to what? Just take a hot shower and go to sleep." That's probably the best advice, sleep." That's probably the best advice, sleep." That's probably the best advice, right? That good oldfashioned advice. right? That good oldfashioned advice. right? That good oldfashioned advice. But if you are determined to do your But if you are determined to do your But if you are determined to do your deliberate cold exposure anyway, then I deliberate cold exposure anyway, then I deliberate cold exposure anyway, then I would say definitely get warm or take a would say definitely get warm or take a would say definitely get warm or take a hot shower afterwards, hot bath or a hot hot shower afterwards, hot bath or a hot hot shower afterwards, hot bath or a hot sauna, but not too hot that it's sauna, but not too hot that it's sauna, but not too hot that it's stressful, of course. And keep in mind stressful, of course. And keep in mind
45:00stressful, of course. And keep in mind that one of the variables that's been that one of the variables that's been that one of the variables that's been measured quite a lot in laboratory measured quite a lot in laboratory measured quite a lot in laboratory studies of deliberate cold exposure is studies of deliberate cold exposure is studies of deliberate cold exposure is the increase in immune system markers. the increase in immune system markers. the increase in immune system markers. So I'll provide a few links to some of So I'll provide a few links to some of So I'll provide a few links to some of these studies. Um although nowadays these studies. Um although nowadays these studies. Um although nowadays there are many many of them but it's there are many many of them but it's there are many many of them but it's very clear that deliberate cold exposure very clear that deliberate cold exposure very clear that deliberate cold exposure can increase the release and the can increase the release and the can increase the release and the production of different immune molecules production of different immune molecules production of different immune molecules and immune cells. One slightly older and immune cells. One slightly older and immune cells. One slightly older study but nonetheless a good study that study but nonetheless a good study that study but nonetheless a good study that has relevance here is entitled immune has relevance here is entitled immune has relevance here is entitled immune system of cold exposed and cold adapted system of cold exposed and cold adapted system of cold exposed and cold adapted humans. Keep in mind that this study is humans. Keep in mind that this study is humans. Keep in mind that this study is a little bit extreme and there are a little bit extreme and there are a little bit extreme and there are reasons for that. Uh I guess to make a reasons for that. Uh I guess to make a reasons for that. Uh I guess to make a long story short, oftentimes in order to long story short, oftentimes in order to long story short, oftentimes in order to quote unquote see an effect in a study, quote unquote see an effect in a study, quote unquote see an effect in a study, scientists will use conditions that are scientists will use conditions that are scientists will use conditions that are pretty extreme compared to control pretty extreme compared to control pretty extreme compared to control group. Oftentimes you'll see a dose group. Oftentimes you'll see a dose group. Oftentimes you'll see a dose response too, but it's a little bit response too, but it's a little bit response too, but it's a little bit trickier to do with human studies of trickier to do with human studies of trickier to do with human studies of deliberate cold exposure. It can be deliberate cold exposure. It can be deliberate cold exposure. It can be done, but not too common. But here they done, but not too common. But here they done, but not too common. But here they used a pretty what I would call extreme used a pretty what I would call extreme used a pretty what I would call extreme stimulus. It was exposing people to 14°
46:00stimulus. It was exposing people to 14° stimulus. It was exposing people to 14° C water. So that's 57.2° C water. So that's 57.2° C water. So that's 57.2° F, which isn't that cold. It's like F, which isn't that cold. It's like F, which isn't that cold. It's like cool. I would say very cool water, but cool. I would say very cool water, but cool. I would say very cool water, but not what you might consider cold, not what you might consider cold, not what you might consider cold, depending on how well you tolerate cold. depending on how well you tolerate cold. depending on how well you tolerate cold. And that will vary, of course. But they And that will vary, of course. But they And that will vary, of course. But they had people exposed to that for an hour, had people exposed to that for an hour, had people exposed to that for an hour, which is a pretty long time. You know, which is a pretty long time. You know, which is a pretty long time. You know, most people, as I mentioned, are using most people, as I mentioned, are using most people, as I mentioned, are using colder temperatures of deliberate cold colder temperatures of deliberate cold colder temperatures of deliberate cold exposure. So even, you know, high30s, exposure. So even, you know, high30s, exposure. So even, you know, high30s, low 40s, maybe upper 40s for anywhere low 40s, maybe upper 40s for anywhere low 40s, maybe upper 40s for anywhere from 1 to 10 minutes, depending on how from 1 to 10 minutes, depending on how from 1 to 10 minutes, depending on how conditioned they are. Uh, and again, conditioned they are. Uh, and again, conditioned they are. Uh, and again, don't just jump into 10 minutes of don't just jump into 10 minutes of don't just jump into 10 minutes of deliberate cold exposure, please. Um, deliberate cold exposure, please. Um, deliberate cold exposure, please. Um, at, you know, 35° or 40° or even 45° if at, you know, 35° or 40° or even 45° if at, you know, 35° or 40° or even 45° if you aren't familiar with deliberate cold you aren't familiar with deliberate cold you aren't familiar with deliberate cold exposure. You have to ease into these exposure. You have to ease into these exposure. You have to ease into these sorts of things over time. And if you're sorts of things over time. And if you're sorts of things over time. And if you're interested in protocols for deliberate interested in protocols for deliberate interested in protocols for deliberate cold exposure, we have a zerocost cold exposure, we have a zerocost cold exposure, we have a zerocost newsletter at yubmanlab.com. Go to the newsletter at yubmanlab.com. Go to the newsletter at yubmanlab.com. Go to the menu, go newsletter, and you can find menu, go newsletter, and you can find menu, go newsletter, and you can find that. We've done several episodes on that. We've done several episodes on that. We've done several episodes on deliberate cold exposure. In any event, deliberate cold exposure. In any event, deliberate cold exposure. In any event, this study immune system of cold this study immune system of cold this study immune system of cold exposing cold adapted humans, as I
47:00exposing cold adapted humans, as I exposing cold adapted humans, as I mentioned, had people in 14° C water for mentioned, had people in 14° C water for mentioned, had people in 14° C water for 1 hour. And basically what they found is 1 hour. And basically what they found is 1 hour. And basically what they found is that one exposure to cold did not change that one exposure to cold did not change that one exposure to cold did not change immune system function in any kind of immune system function in any kind of immune system function in any kind of significant way. However, what they significant way. However, what they significant way. However, what they found was if people did deliberate cold found was if people did deliberate cold found was if people did deliberate cold exposure repeatedly over a period of exposure repeatedly over a period of exposure repeatedly over a period of about six weeks and by repeatedly I mean about six weeks and by repeatedly I mean about six weeks and by repeatedly I mean three times per week. What they found three times per week. What they found three times per week. What they found were trends and again trends are not were trends and again trends are not were trends and again trends are not statistically significant but trends statistically significant but trends statistically significant but trends towards increases in plasma towards increases in plasma towards increases in plasma concentrations of things like IL6 concentrations of things like IL6 concentrations of things like IL6 interlucan 6 or total numbers of interlucan 6 or total numbers of interlucan 6 or total numbers of Tlymphosytes and T- helpper cells and Tlymphosytes and T- helpper cells and Tlymphosytes and T- helpper cells and T-uppressor cells and activated T and B T-uppressor cells and activated T and B T-uppressor cells and activated T and B lymphosytes. These are all immune cells lymphosytes. These are all immune cells lymphosytes. These are all immune cells and immune molecules that roughly and immune molecules that roughly and immune molecules that roughly correspond to an increase in immune correspond to an increase in immune correspond to an increase in immune system function. If you'd like to learn system function. If you'd like to learn system function. If you'd like to learn more about the immune system, I did an more about the immune system, I did an more about the immune system, I did an episode on immune system function. episode on immune system function. episode on immune system function. Again, you can find that at Again, you can find that at Again, you can find that at hubbermanlab.com. And it spells out the hubbermanlab.com. And it spells out the hubbermanlab.com. And it spells out the basic cell types of what's called the basic cell types of what's called the basic cell types of what's called the innate and the adaptive immune system. innate and the adaptive immune system. innate and the adaptive immune system. This study, which we will link to in the This study, which we will link to in the This study, which we will link to in the show note captions, is but one study of
48:00show note captions, is but one study of show note captions, is but one study of several other studies showing that several other studies showing that several other studies showing that deliberate cold exposure can increase deliberate cold exposure can increase deliberate cold exposure can increase immune system markers, especially when immune system markers, especially when immune system markers, especially when deliberate cold exposure is done deliberate cold exposure is done deliberate cold exposure is done repeatedly over time. So in this case, repeatedly over time. So in this case, repeatedly over time. So in this case, three times a week over a period of six three times a week over a period of six three times a week over a period of six weeks. But again, I want to highlight weeks. But again, I want to highlight weeks. But again, I want to highlight these aren't highly significant effects. these aren't highly significant effects. these aren't highly significant effects. These are trends in the direction of These are trends in the direction of These are trends in the direction of increased numbers of immune cells and increased numbers of immune cells and increased numbers of immune cells and immune markers. Now, what's impossible immune markers. Now, what's impossible immune markers. Now, what's impossible to know is how those trends translate to to know is how those trends translate to to know is how those trends translate to actual resistance to specific actual resistance to specific actual resistance to specific concentrations of say cold virus or flu concentrations of say cold virus or flu concentrations of say cold virus or flu virus or any other virus or bacteria. virus or any other virus or bacteria. virus or any other virus or bacteria. That would be great, but that's a very That would be great, but that's a very That would be great, but that's a very difficult study to do, especially in the difficult study to do, especially in the difficult study to do, especially in the context of deliberate cold exposure as context of deliberate cold exposure as context of deliberate cold exposure as well. Now we can all be scientists about well. Now we can all be scientists about well. Now we can all be scientists about this and say what is it about deliberate this and say what is it about deliberate this and say what is it about deliberate cold exposure that would increase immune cold exposure that would increase immune cold exposure that would increase immune system function and there we can system function and there we can system function and there we can confidently say the molecules confidently say the molecules confidently say the molecules epinephrine and norepinephrine which are epinephrine and norepinephrine which are epinephrine and norepinephrine which are released in both brain and body in released in both brain and body in released in both brain and body in response to cold water exposure as well response to cold water exposure as well response to cold water exposure as well as things like deliberate as things like deliberate as things like deliberate hyperventilation. hyperventilation. hyperventilation. The release of norepinephrine and The release of norepinephrine and The release of norepinephrine and epinephrine into the brain and body is
49:00epinephrine into the brain and body is epinephrine into the brain and body is known to have a number of different known to have a number of different known to have a number of different effects related to the immune system. It effects related to the immune system. It effects related to the immune system. It can be pro-immune at least in the short can be pro-immune at least in the short can be pro-immune at least in the short term and in the long term meaning if term and in the long term meaning if term and in the long term meaning if noradrenaline and adrenaline again those noradrenaline and adrenaline again those noradrenaline and adrenaline again those are just different names for are just different names for are just different names for norepinephrine and epinephrine I'm sorry norepinephrine and epinephrine I'm sorry norepinephrine and epinephrine I'm sorry those are the same thing but that's why those are the same thing but that's why those are the same thing but that's why I use them interchangeably so that you I use them interchangeably so that you I use them interchangeably so that you don't get confused if you see don't get confused if you see don't get confused if you see noradrenaline or norepinephrine that's noradrenaline or norepinephrine that's noradrenaline or norepinephrine that's the same thing you hear epinephrine or the same thing you hear epinephrine or the same thing you hear epinephrine or adrenaline same thing deliberate cold adrenaline same thing deliberate cold adrenaline same thing deliberate cold exposure or deliberate hyperventilation exposure or deliberate hyperventilation exposure or deliberate hyperventilation will increase those molecules will increase those molecules will increase those molecules norepinephrine and epinephrine and their norepinephrine and epinephrine and their norepinephrine and epinephrine and their increase is pro-immune. It can trigger increase is pro-immune. It can trigger increase is pro-immune. It can trigger the activation of immune cells and the activation of immune cells and the activation of immune cells and immune molecules that can make you more immune molecules that can make you more immune molecules that can make you more resistant to certain forms of infection. resistant to certain forms of infection. resistant to certain forms of infection. However, if norepinephrine and However, if norepinephrine and However, if norepinephrine and epinephrine are elevated chronically and epinephrine are elevated chronically and epinephrine are elevated chronically and especially if they are elevated late in especially if they are elevated late in especially if they are elevated late in the day repeatedly over many many days, the day repeatedly over many many days, the day repeatedly over many many days, that can cause reductions in the number that can cause reductions in the number that can cause reductions in the number and efficiency of immune cells in and efficiency of immune cells in and efficiency of immune cells in combating infections. So getting cold in
50:00combating infections. So getting cold in combating infections. So getting cold in this context of whether or not you can this context of whether or not you can this context of whether or not you can get sick from it should really be get sick from it should really be get sick from it should really be considered more as what happens when you considered more as what happens when you considered more as what happens when you spike your adrenaline or norepinephrine. spike your adrenaline or norepinephrine. spike your adrenaline or norepinephrine. And there's one other study that we can And there's one other study that we can And there's one other study that we can look to which is now really a famous look to which is now really a famous look to which is now really a famous study published in proceedings of the study published in proceedings of the study published in proceedings of the national academy of sciences looking at national academy of sciences looking at national academy of sciences looking at so-called Wimhof breathing. Um but so-called Wimhof breathing. Um but so-called Wimhof breathing. Um but really that just translates to cyclic really that just translates to cyclic really that just translates to cyclic hyperventilation. So this is inhaling hyperventilation. So this is inhaling hyperventilation. So this is inhaling through the nose, exhaling through the through the nose, exhaling through the through the nose, exhaling through the mouth repeatedly 25 times or so. mouth repeatedly 25 times or so. mouth repeatedly 25 times or so. [sighs and panting] If you do that, you notice you feel If you do that, you notice you feel quite warm. quite warm. quite warm. Has to do with some things related to Has to do with some things related to Has to do with some things related to vasoddilation. Has some things to do vasoddilation. Has some things to do vasoddilation. Has some things to do with release of norepinephrine and with release of norepinephrine and with release of norepinephrine and epinephrine. We know that pattern of epinephrine. We know that pattern of epinephrine. We know that pattern of deliberate hyperventilation much like deliberate hyperventilation much like deliberate hyperventilation much like deliberate cold exposure deploys or deliberate cold exposure deploys or deliberate cold exposure deploys or releases noradrenaline and adrenaline releases noradrenaline and adrenaline releases noradrenaline and adrenaline into your brain and body. And we know into your brain and body. And we know into your brain and body. And we know from this study entitled voluntary from this study entitled voluntary from this study entitled voluntary activation of the sympathetic nervous activation of the sympathetic nervous activation of the sympathetic nervous system and attenuation of the innate system and attenuation of the innate system and attenuation of the innate immune response in humans showed really immune response in humans showed really immune response in humans showed really nicely I think that if people are nicely I think that if people are nicely I think that if people are injected with EC coli right a bacteria injected with EC coli right a bacteria injected with EC coli right a bacteria it's actually end they did this through
51:00it's actually end they did this through it's actually end they did this through endotoxin injections people got really endotoxin injections people got really endotoxin injections people got really sick they get you know feel like they sick they get you know feel like they sick they get you know feel like they had the flu they vomit diarrhea get a had the flu they vomit diarrhea get a had the flu they vomit diarrhea get a fever etc. However, if they did the fever etc. However, if they did the fever etc. However, if they did the sorts of breathing that I talked about sorts of breathing that I talked about sorts of breathing that I talked about just a moment ago prior to that, they just a moment ago prior to that, they just a moment ago prior to that, they were able to ward off a lot of the were able to ward off a lot of the were able to ward off a lot of the symptoms associated with the endotoxin symptoms associated with the endotoxin symptoms associated with the endotoxin infection. And you would say, okay, wow, infection. And you would say, okay, wow, infection. And you would say, okay, wow, their immune system just fired up and their immune system just fired up and their immune system just fired up and they were able to fight it off. But it's they were able to fight it off. But it's they were able to fight it off. But it's trickier than that. Actually, what trickier than that. Actually, what trickier than that. Actually, what happened was the release of epinephrine happened was the release of epinephrine happened was the release of epinephrine and norepinephrine from cyclic and norepinephrine from cyclic and norepinephrine from cyclic hyperventilation, which is really what hyperventilation, which is really what hyperventilation, which is really what really is. Cyclic hyperventilation, also really is. Cyclic hyperventilation, also really is. Cyclic hyperventilation, also called Wimhof breathing, also called called Wimhof breathing, also called called Wimhof breathing, also called tumo breathing, etc. That actually had a tumo breathing, etc. That actually had a tumo breathing, etc. That actually had a suppressive action on certain arms of suppressive action on certain arms of suppressive action on certain arms of the immune system in a way that allowed the immune system in a way that allowed the immune system in a way that allowed people to avoid symptomology such as people to avoid symptomology such as people to avoid symptomology such as fever, nausea, etc. And we would imagine fever, nausea, etc. And we would imagine fever, nausea, etc. And we would imagine the same thing would occur with the same thing would occur with the same thing would occur with deliberate cold exposure done prior to deliberate cold exposure done prior to deliberate cold exposure done prior to bacterial infection or viral exposure.
52:00bacterial infection or viral exposure. bacterial infection or viral exposure. So, if you're sensing that I'm saying So, if you're sensing that I'm saying So, if you're sensing that I'm saying two things at once, I am. I'm saying two things at once, I am. I'm saying two things at once, I am. I'm saying deliberate cold exposure and cyclic deliberate cold exposure and cyclic deliberate cold exposure and cyclic hyperventilation can both cause hyperventilation can both cause hyperventilation can both cause deployment of molecules such as deployment of molecules such as deployment of molecules such as epinephrine and norepinephrine that lead epinephrine and norepinephrine that lead epinephrine and norepinephrine that lead to enhanced immune system function if to enhanced immune system function if to enhanced immune system function if done repeatedly. I'm also saying that done repeatedly. I'm also saying that done repeatedly. I'm also saying that increasing norepinephrine and increasing norepinephrine and increasing norepinephrine and epinephrine too much can suppress your epinephrine too much can suppress your epinephrine too much can suppress your immune system. In this study, the PNAS immune system. In this study, the PNAS immune system. In this study, the PNAS study that I mentioned a moment ago, study that I mentioned a moment ago, study that I mentioned a moment ago, that suppression of the immune response that suppression of the immune response that suppression of the immune response was actually one of the reasons people was actually one of the reasons people was actually one of the reasons people avoided symptomology, but they were avoided symptomology, but they were avoided symptomology, but they were still injected with endotoxins. They still injected with endotoxins. They still injected with endotoxins. They just weren't fighting off the endotoxin just weren't fighting off the endotoxin just weren't fighting off the endotoxin with fever. Remember, fever is an with fever. Remember, fever is an with fever. Remember, fever is an adaptation to fight infection. It's adaptation to fight infection. It's adaptation to fight infection. It's designed essentially to heat up the designed essentially to heat up the designed essentially to heat up the infection and kill it. So, what are we infection and kill it. So, what are we infection and kill it. So, what are we to take away from this? Here are what I to take away from this? Here are what I to take away from this? Here are what I think are the key takeaways. One, if you think are the key takeaways. One, if you think are the key takeaways. One, if you are feeling good to great, do your are feeling good to great, do your are feeling good to great, do your deliberate cold exposure and perhaps deliberate cold exposure and perhaps deliberate cold exposure and perhaps don't worry so much about using your don't worry so much about using your don't worry so much about using your body's natural metabolism and body's natural metabolism and body's natural metabolism and thermogenic abilities to heat back up thermogenic abilities to heat back up thermogenic abilities to heat back up afterwards. But I don't suggest anyone
53:00afterwards. But I don't suggest anyone afterwards. But I don't suggest anyone ever allow themselves to stay really ever allow themselves to stay really ever allow themselves to stay really cold after deliberate cold exposure for cold after deliberate cold exposure for cold after deliberate cold exposure for more than 10, 15 minutes or maybe half more than 10, 15 minutes or maybe half more than 10, 15 minutes or maybe half an hour. Right? Get bundled back up or an hour. Right? Get bundled back up or an hour. Right? Get bundled back up or put on clothes. If it's a nice hot sunny put on clothes. If it's a nice hot sunny put on clothes. If it's a nice hot sunny day, get out in the sun and warm up. day, get out in the sun and warm up. day, get out in the sun and warm up. Again, temperatures and conditions will Again, temperatures and conditions will Again, temperatures and conditions will vary for different people, different vary for different people, different vary for different people, different locations, etc. locations, etc. locations, etc. If you are not feeling great, you're If you are not feeling great, you're If you are not feeling great, you're feeling a little run down and you really feeling a little run down and you really feeling a little run down and you really want to do your deliberate cold want to do your deliberate cold want to do your deliberate cold exposure, do it, but then warm up really exposure, do it, but then warm up really exposure, do it, but then warm up really well afterwards. maybe even drink some, well afterwards. maybe even drink some, well afterwards. maybe even drink some, you know, hot tea or other fluid you know, hot tea or other fluid you know, hot tea or other fluid afterwards as well. And if you are not afterwards as well. And if you are not afterwards as well. And if you are not feeling good, you're feeling malaise, feeling good, you're feeling malaise, feeling good, you're feeling malaise, you're feeling run down, despite what you're feeling run down, despite what you're feeling run down, despite what you read about deliberate cold exposure you read about deliberate cold exposure you read about deliberate cold exposure or cyclic hyperventilation, allowing for or cyclic hyperventilation, allowing for or cyclic hyperventilation, allowing for the deployment of immune molecules or the deployment of immune molecules or the deployment of immune molecules or increasing the number of immune cells increasing the number of immune cells increasing the number of immune cells that you're making. Avoid anything that you're making. Avoid anything that you're making. Avoid anything that's stressful or challenging, whether that's stressful or challenging, whether that's stressful or challenging, whether or not it's a cold challenge, a heat or not it's a cold challenge, a heat or not it's a cold challenge, a heat challenge, or an exercise challenge. challenge, or an exercise challenge. challenge, or an exercise challenge. when you're feeling run down because
54:00when you're feeling run down because when you're feeling run down because under those conditions, what you really under those conditions, what you really under those conditions, what you really want to do is slow your circulation want to do is slow your circulation want to do is slow your circulation down. Probably fine to take little walks down. Probably fine to take little walks down. Probably fine to take little walks or something provided you're not doubled or something provided you're not doubled or something provided you're not doubled over in bed and you know vomiting and over in bed and you know vomiting and over in bed and you know vomiting and things like that. You know, a little bit things like that. You know, a little bit things like that. You know, a little bit of movement probably good to circulate of movement probably good to circulate of movement probably good to circulate your blood. But in general, the advice your blood. But in general, the advice your blood. But in general, the advice that you get to rest when you're sick that you get to rest when you're sick that you get to rest when you're sick and not push yourself, that's really and not push yourself, that's really and not push yourself, that's really good advice because you want all of your good advice because you want all of your good advice because you want all of your body's resources to be devoted to body's resources to be devoted to body's resources to be devoted to getting over that infection. And if getting over that infection. And if getting over that infection. And if you're interested in sickness and you're interested in sickness and you're interested in sickness and sickness behavior and the sorts of sickness behavior and the sorts of sickness behavior and the sorts of behaviors that can combat infection, behaviors that can combat infection, behaviors that can combat infection, check out the episode I did on the check out the episode I did on the check out the episode I did on the immune system, we'll link to it in the immune system, we'll link to it in the immune system, we'll link to it in the show not captions because it talks about show not captions because it talks about show not captions because it talks about how when we have a viral or bacterial how when we have a viral or bacterial how when we have a viral or bacterial infection, a whole set of brain circuits infection, a whole set of brain circuits infection, a whole set of brain circuits get activated that kind of encourage us get activated that kind of encourage us get activated that kind of encourage us to be more in the fetal position, to to be more in the fetal position, to to be more in the fetal position, to move less, to be eyes down, to kind of, move less, to be eyes down, to kind of, move less, to be eyes down, to kind of, you know, slump down. That's not a you know, slump down. That's not a you know, slump down. That's not a coincidence. That's because of the coincidence. That's because of the coincidence. That's because of the activation of these so-called sickness activation of these so-called sickness activation of these so-called sickness circuits that are really designed to circuits that are really designed to circuits that are really designed to help you heal yourself. So, I both help you heal yourself. So, I both help you heal yourself. So, I both apologize and what do the kids say? apologize and what do the kids say? apologize and what do the kids say? Sorry, not sorry. Don't apologize for
55:00Sorry, not sorry. Don't apologize for Sorry, not sorry. Don't apologize for the somewhat nuanced answer here because the somewhat nuanced answer here because the somewhat nuanced answer here because a lot of information out there says, a lot of information out there says, a lot of information out there says, "Oh, you know, cold boosts your immune "Oh, you know, cold boosts your immune "Oh, you know, cold boosts your immune system." And yeah, that's true. Under system." And yeah, that's true. Under system." And yeah, that's true. Under certain conditions, it can also deplete certain conditions, it can also deplete certain conditions, it can also deplete your immune system and limit your your immune system and limit your your immune system and limit your ability to fight off infections under ability to fight off infections under ability to fight off infections under other conditions. And perhaps the last other conditions. And perhaps the last other conditions. And perhaps the last thing to say about this is that I am a thing to say about this is that I am a thing to say about this is that I am a big believer in using nasal breathing big believer in using nasal breathing big believer in using nasal breathing whenever you don't have to breathe whenever you don't have to breathe whenever you don't have to breathe through your mouth. So if you're through your mouth. So if you're through your mouth. So if you're exercising hard, by all means breathe exercising hard, by all means breathe exercising hard, by all means breathe through your mouth. If you're doing through your mouth. If you're doing through your mouth. If you're doing martial arts and it requires that you martial arts and it requires that you martial arts and it requires that you breathe through your mouth, go ahead and breathe through your mouth, go ahead and breathe through your mouth, go ahead and do that. But if you're doing say zone 2 do that. But if you're doing say zone 2 do that. But if you're doing say zone 2 cardio, lowle cardio, or you're just cardio, lowle cardio, or you're just cardio, lowle cardio, or you're just walking along, it's very clear based on walking along, it's very clear based on walking along, it's very clear based on a growing amount of data that being a a growing amount of data that being a a growing amount of data that being a nasal breather is better than being a nasal breather is better than being a nasal breather is better than being a mouth breather. And there are a number mouth breather. And there are a number mouth breather. And there are a number of different reasons for that we've of different reasons for that we've of different reasons for that we've talked about on the podcast and talked about on the podcast and talked about on the podcast and elsewhere. But one of the additional elsewhere. But one of the additional elsewhere. But one of the additional reasons is a main site of entry for reasons is a main site of entry for reasons is a main site of entry for infections is through the mouth. So keep infections is through the mouth. So keep infections is through the mouth. So keep that mouth shut unless you need to talk. that mouth shut unless you need to talk. that mouth shut unless you need to talk. Thank you for joining for the beginning Thank you for joining for the beginning of this Ask Me Anything episode. To hear of this Ask Me Anything episode. To hear of this Ask Me Anything episode. To hear the full episode and to hear future
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