Harnessing the Power of Contrast Therapy: Cold and Heat for Enhanced Health - Full Transcript

00:00[Music] [Music] welcome to the huberman Lab podcast welcome to the huberman Lab podcast welcome to the huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and where we discuss science and where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and professor of neurobiology and professor of neurobiology and Opthalmology at Stanford school of Opthalmology at Stanford school of Opthalmology at Stanford school of medicine today my guest is Dr Susanna medicine today my guest is Dr Susanna medicine today my guest is Dr Susanna soberg Dr Susanna soberg completed her soberg Dr Susanna soberg completed her soberg Dr Susanna soberg completed her doctoral thesis work at the center of doctoral thesis work at the center of doctoral thesis work at the center of inflammation and metabolism and the inflammation and metabolism and the inflammation and metabolism and the center for physical activity research at center for physical activity research at center for physical activity research at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark the University of Copenhagen in Denmark the University of Copenhagen in Denmark her research has focused on how her research has focused on how her research has focused on how deliberate cold exposure and deliberate deliberate cold exposure and deliberate deliberate cold exposure and deliberate heat exposure can be used to enhance heat exposure can be used to enhance heat exposure can be used to enhance human metabolism she is the first author human metabolism she is the first author human metabolism she is the first author of a seminal study which discovered the of a seminal study which discovered the of a seminal study which discovered the minimum thresholds for deliberate heat minimum thresholds for deliberate heat minimum thresholds for deliberate heat and deliberate cold exposure for and deliberate cold exposure for and deliberate cold exposure for increasing Brown fat thermogenesis which increasing Brown fat thermogenesis which increasing Brown fat thermogenesis which is essentially a mode of increasing heat is essentially a mode of increasing heat is essentially a mode of increasing heat production and Metabolism in the body production and Metabolism in the body production and Metabolism in the body and for establishing actionable and for establishing actionable and for establishing actionable protocols that can be used outside of protocols that can be used outside of protocols that can be used outside of the laboratory to improve metabolism and the laboratory to improve metabolism and the laboratory to improve metabolism and human health Dr sobber's research was human health Dr sobber's research was human health Dr sobber's research was published in the journal cell reports

01:00published in the journal cell reports published in the journal cell reports metabolism in 2021 adding to a long and metabolism in 2021 adding to a long and metabolism in 2021 adding to a long and important history of research focusing important history of research focusing important history of research focusing on the role of cold and the role of heat on the role of cold and the role of heat on the role of cold and the role of heat in altering various aspects of the in altering various aspects of the in altering various aspects of the body's physiology including Hormone body's physiology including Hormone body's physiology including Hormone Health metabolism and changes in Health metabolism and changes in Health metabolism and changes in neurotransmitters such as dopamine and neurotransmitters such as dopamine and neurotransmitters such as dopamine and epinephrine in fact today's discussion epinephrine in fact today's discussion epinephrine in fact today's discussion with Dr soberg focuses on the role of with Dr soberg focuses on the role of with Dr soberg focuses on the role of deliberate heat and deliberate cold deliberate heat and deliberate cold deliberate heat and deliberate cold exposure on metabolism but it also exposure on metabolism but it also exposure on metabolism but it also includes discussion of the effects of includes discussion of the effects of includes discussion of the effects of cold and heat on things like cold and heat on things like cold and heat on things like neurotransmitter production namely neurotransmitter production namely neurotransmitter production namely dopamine and epinephrine and dopamine and epinephrine and dopamine and epinephrine and norepinephrine the so-called catacol norepinephrine the so-called catacol norepinephrine the so-called catacol amines which strongly impact mood and amines which strongly impact mood and amines which strongly impact mood and Metabolism in addition Dr soberg answers Metabolism in addition Dr soberg answers Metabolism in addition Dr soberg answers many common questions about deliberate many common questions about deliberate many common questions about deliberate cold and deliberate heat exposure cold and deliberate heat exposure cold and deliberate heat exposure including for instance the difference including for instance the difference including for instance the difference between cold showers versus cold between cold showers versus cold between cold showers versus cold immersion up to the neck versus total immersion up to the neck versus total immersion up to the neck versus total body cold immersion including whether or body cold immersion including whether or body cold immersion including whether or not going back and forth between heat not going back and forth between heat not going back and forth between heat and cold changes fundamentally the way and cold changes fundamentally the way and cold changes fundamentally the way that heat and cold impact the metabolism that heat and cold impact the metabolism that heat and cold impact the metabolism hormones and neurotransmitter production

02:00hormones and neurotransmitter production hormones and neurotransmitter production and we talk about almost every single and we talk about almost every single and we talk about almost every single nuance and variation on deliberate cold nuance and variation on deliberate cold nuance and variation on deliberate cold and deliberate heat exposure protocols and deliberate heat exposure protocols and deliberate heat exposure protocols as it relates to the underlying science as it relates to the underlying science as it relates to the underlying science in particular how cold receptors at the in particular how cold receptors at the in particular how cold receptors at the level of the skin are impacted versus level of the skin are impacted versus level of the skin are impacted versus cold reception and perception at the cold reception and perception at the cold reception and perception at the level of the brain and how all of that level of the brain and how all of that level of the brain and how all of that impacts systems of the brain and body impacts systems of the brain and body impacts systems of the brain and body relating to mental health physical relating to mental health physical relating to mental health physical health and Performance Based on her health and Performance Based on her health and Performance Based on her scientific research and academic scientific research and academic scientific research and academic training as well as her understanding training as well as her understanding training as well as her understanding and use of Del heat and deliberate cold and use of Del heat and deliberate cold and use of Del heat and deliberate cold exposure protocols Dr soberg is exposure protocols Dr soberg is exposure protocols Dr soberg is considered one of the world's leading considered one of the world's leading considered one of the world's leading experts on these topics in fact she is experts on these topics in fact she is experts on these topics in fact she is the author of a recent book entitled the author of a recent book entitled the author of a recent book entitled winter swimming which is I have to say a winter swimming which is I have to say a winter swimming which is I have to say a terrific book because it breaks down terrific book because it breaks down terrific book because it breaks down chapter by chapter the different aspects chapter by chapter the different aspects chapter by chapter the different aspects of deliberate heat and deliberate cold of deliberate heat and deliberate cold of deliberate heat and deliberate cold into its various constituent Parts into its various constituent Parts into its various constituent Parts including cold acclimation the cold including cold acclimation the cold including cold acclimation the cold shock response dangers and safeties of shock response dangers and safeties of shock response dangers and safeties of cold water the impact of cold and impact cold water the impact of cold and impact cold water the impact of cold and impact of heat on various aspects of human

03:00of heat on various aspects of human of heat on various aspects of human health as well as specifics relating to health as well as specifics relating to health as well as specifics relating to Sauna versus Ice versus cold swimming Sauna versus Ice versus cold swimming Sauna versus Ice versus cold swimming showers Etc it's a very thorough read showers Etc it's a very thorough read showers Etc it's a very thorough read and a very easy and accessible read that and a very easy and accessible read that and a very easy and accessible read that if you are interested in deliberate cold if you are interested in deliberate cold if you are interested in deliberate cold or deliberate heat exposure or both will or deliberate heat exposure or both will or deliberate heat exposure or both will allow you to embrace those protocols allow you to embrace those protocols allow you to embrace those protocols with the greatest degree of confidence with the greatest degree of confidence with the greatest degree of confidence that you're going to obtain the specific that you're going to obtain the specific that you're going to obtain the specific end points that you're interested in and end points that you're interested in and end points that you're interested in and to do so safely before we begin I'd like to do so safely before we begin I'd like to do so safely before we begin I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is to emphasize that this podcast is to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research separate from my teaching and research separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford it is however part of roles at Stanford it is however part of roles at Stanford it is however part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost my desire and effort to bring zero cost my desire and effort to bring zero cost to Consumer information about science to Consumer information about science to Consumer information about science and science related tools to the general and science related tools to the general and science related tools to the general public in keeping with that theme I'd public in keeping with that theme I'd public in keeping with that theme I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's like to thank the sponsors of today's like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast our first sponsor is plunge podcast our first sponsor is plunge podcast our first sponsor is plunge plunge makes what I believe is the most plunge makes what I believe is the most plunge makes what I believe is the most versatile atome self-cooling cold plunge versatile atome self-cooling cold plunge versatile atome self-cooling cold plunge for deliberate cold exposure I've talked for deliberate cold exposure I've talked for deliberate cold exposure I've talked numerous times on this podcast about the numerous times on this podcast about the numerous times on this podcast about the many benefits of deliberate cold many benefits of deliberate cold many benefits of deliberate cold exposure and indeed today's episode is exposure and indeed today's episode is exposure and indeed today's episode is focused entirely on the benefits and the focused entirely on the benefits and the focused entirely on the benefits and the science of deliberate cold exposure SP science of deliberate cold exposure SP science of deliberate cold exposure SP uses a powerful cooling filtration and

04:00uses a powerful cooling filtration and uses a powerful cooling filtration and sanitation unit to give you access to sanitation unit to give you access to sanitation unit to give you access to deliberate cold exposure in clean water deliberate cold exposure in clean water deliberate cold exposure in clean water whenever you want as we'll discuss whenever you want as we'll discuss whenever you want as we'll discuss during today's episode with Dr Susanna during today's episode with Dr Susanna during today's episode with Dr Susanna soberg deliberate cold exposure soberg deliberate cold exposure soberg deliberate cold exposure especially deliberate cold exposure done especially deliberate cold exposure done especially deliberate cold exposure done up to the neck in water can be used to up to the neck in water can be used to up to the neck in water can be used to achieve a number of important endpoints achieve a number of important endpoints achieve a number of important endpoints related to mental health physical health related to mental health physical health related to mental health physical health and performance I've been using a plunge and performance I've been using a plunge and performance I've been using a plunge for more than two years now I can tell for more than two years now I can tell for more than two years now I can tell you that it makes it very easy to get you that it makes it very easy to get you that it makes it very easy to get your deliberate cold exposure at home it your deliberate cold exposure at home it your deliberate cold exposure at home it doesn't require much cleaning in fact doesn't require much cleaning in fact doesn't require much cleaning in fact it's very easy to keep clean which is it's very easy to keep clean which is it's very easy to keep clean which is essential you don't want bacteria and essential you don't want bacteria and essential you don't want bacteria and other things growing in your Cal plunge other things growing in your Cal plunge other things growing in your Cal plunge basically everything about the plunge is basically everything about the plunge is basically everything about the plunge is made easy so that anyone including made easy so that anyone including made easy so that anyone including myself can get their deliberate cold myself can get their deliberate cold myself can get their deliberate cold exposure on a regular basis at home if exposure on a regular basis at home if exposure on a regular basis at home if you're interested in getting a plunge you're interested in getting a plunge you're interested in getting a plunge you can go to plunge spelled p l u n you can go to plunge spelled p l u n you can go to plunge spelled p l u n g.com huberman and get $150 off your g.com huberman and get $150 off your g.com huberman and get $150 off your cold plunge again that's plunge. comom cold plunge again that's plunge. comom cold plunge again that's plunge. comom huberman for $150 off today's episode is huberman for $150 off today's episode is huberman for $150 off today's episode is also brought To Us by Maui Nei venison also brought To Us by Maui Nei venison also brought To Us by Maui Nei venison which I can confidently say is the most which I can confidently say is the most which I can confidently say is the most nutrient Den and delicious red meat

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06:00circuits for Focus neural circuits for circuits for Focus neural circuits for task switching neural circuits for task switching neural circuits for task switching neural circuits for creativity and on and on thesis creativity and on and on thesis creativity and on and on thesis understands this and Designs custom neut understands this and Designs custom neut understands this and Designs custom neut Tropics designed to get your brain and Tropics designed to get your brain and Tropics designed to get your brain and body into specific state in order to do body into specific state in order to do body into specific state in order to do the mental and or physical work that's the mental and or physical work that's the mental and or physical work that's important to you such as creativity or important to you such as creativity or important to you such as creativity or Focus or Clarity if you'd like to try Focus or Clarity if you'd like to try Focus or Clarity if you'd like to try thesis neut Tropics you simply go to thesis neut Tropics you simply go to thesis neut Tropics you simply go to their website you fill out a brief quiz their website you fill out a brief quiz their website you fill out a brief quiz and they will design a custom starter and they will design a custom starter and they will design a custom starter pack so that you can assess which things pack so that you can assess which things pack so that you can assess which things work for you more or less well and then work for you more or less well and then work for you more or less well and then they'll iterate with you over the course they'll iterate with you over the course they'll iterate with you over the course of the next few weeks or months to come of the next few weeks or months to come of the next few weeks or months to come up with the ideal neut Tropic kit for up with the ideal neut Tropic kit for up with the ideal neut Tropic kit for your needs to get your own personalized your needs to get your own personalized your needs to get your own personalized neut Tropic starter kit go online to neut Tropic starter kit go online to neut Tropic starter kit go online to taketh thesis. comom huberman you can taketh thesis. comom huberman you can taketh thesis. comom huberman you can take that three-minute quiz and they'll take that three-minute quiz and they'll take that three-minute quiz and they'll send you four different formulas to try send you four different formulas to try send you four different formulas to try in your first month again that's take in your first month again that's take in your first month again that's take thesis. huberman and use the code huin thesis. huberman and use the code huin thesis. huberman and use the code huin at checkout to get 10% off your first at checkout to get 10% off your first at checkout to get 10% off your first box I'm pleased to announce that I will box I'm pleased to announce that I will box I'm pleased to announce that I will be hosting two live events in September be hosting two live events in September be hosting two live events in September of of of 20123 the first live event will take 20123 the first live event will take 20123 the first live event will take place in Toronto on September 12th the place in Toronto on September 12th the place in Toronto on September 12th the second live event will take place in

07:00second live event will take place in second live event will take place in Chicago on September 28th both Live Chicago on September 28th both Live Chicago on September 28th both Live Events will include a lecture and a Events will include a lecture and a Events will include a lecture and a question and answer period and are question and answer period and are question and answer period and are entitled The Brain body contract during entitled The Brain body contract during entitled The Brain body contract during which I will discuss tools and science which I will discuss tools and science which I will discuss tools and science related to mental health physical health related to mental health physical health and performance and I should mention and performance and I should mention and performance and I should mention that a lot of that content will have that a lot of that content will have that a lot of that content will have absolutely no overlap with content absolutely no overlap with content absolutely no overlap with content covered previously on the hubman Lab covered previously on the hubman Lab covered previously on the hubman Lab podcast or elsewhere if you're podcast or elsewhere if you're podcast or elsewhere if you're interested in attending either or both interested in attending either or both interested in attending either or both of these events please go to hubman of these events please go to hubman of these events please go to hubman lab.com tour and enter the code huberman lab.com tour and enter the code huberman lab.com tour and enter the code huberman to get early access to tickets once to get early access to tickets once to get early access to tickets once again that's hubman lab.com tour and use again that's hubman lab.com tour and use again that's hubman lab.com tour and use the code huberman to access tickets I the code huberman to access tickets I the code huberman to access tickets I hope to see you there and now for my hope to see you there and now for my hope to see you there and now for my discussion with Dr Susanna soberg Dr discussion with Dr Susanna soberg Dr discussion with Dr Susanna soberg Dr Susanna soberg welcome thank you so Susanna soberg welcome thank you so Susanna soberg welcome thank you so great to have you here I feel like I great to have you here I feel like I great to have you here I feel like I should give a little bit of the should give a little bit of the should give a little bit of the backstory of how we got connected which backstory of how we got connected which backstory of how we got connected which was that for many years I've been was that for many years I've been was that for many years I've been interested in cold thermogenesis it was interested in cold thermogenesis it was interested in cold thermogenesis it was the topic of my senior thesis in college the topic of my senior thesis in college the topic of my senior thesis in college and I've of course followed the uh and I've of course followed the uh and I've of course followed the uh popularity of whm Hoff and we've had Dr

08:00popularity of whm Hoff and we've had Dr popularity of whm Hoff and we've had Dr Craig heler my colleague from biology Craig heler my colleague from biology Craig heler my colleague from biology department at Stanford who works on cold department at Stanford who works on cold department at Stanford who works on cold and its impact on physiology and sports and its impact on physiology and sports and its impact on physiology and sports performance so for a long time I've been performance so for a long time I've been performance so for a long time I've been interested in this area but there's been interested in this area but there's been interested in this area but there's been a real uh lack of new let's say a real uh lack of new let's say a real uh lack of new let's say high-profile quality scientific high-profile quality scientific high-profile quality scientific information in terms of how for instance information in terms of how for instance information in terms of how for instance cold plunges and sauna how that impacts cold plunges and sauna how that impacts cold plunges and sauna how that impacts human physiology human physiology human physiology I know there's been some information out I know there's been some information out I know there's been some information out there but it's been sort of scattered there but it's been sort of scattered there but it's been sort of scattered and then a little over a year ago I see and then a little over a year ago I see and then a little over a year ago I see this paper in cellreports medicine and this paper in cellreports medicine and this paper in cellreports medicine and was immediately struck the first of all was immediately struck the first of all was immediately struck the first of all the fact that it was in cell reports the fact that it was in cell reports the fact that it was in cell reports medicine I've been on the cell press medicine I've been on the cell press medicine I've been on the cell press editorial board for a long time now so editorial board for a long time now so editorial board for a long time now so press journals are of course phenomenal press journals are of course phenomenal press journals are of course phenomenal journals and the title and the content journals and the title and the content journals and the title and the content of the paper was directly in line with of the paper was directly in line with of the paper was directly in line with the sorts of practices that people are the sorts of practices that people are the sorts of practices that people are very curious about and then are starting very curious about and then are starting very curious about and then are starting to emerge things like sauna cold plunges

09:00to emerge things like sauna cold plunges to emerge things like sauna cold plunges and there was your name first on the and there was your name first on the and there was your name first on the author list and I reached out to you author list and I reached out to you author list and I reached out to you through social media and we've done a through social media and we've done a through social media and we've done a little bit of live content there little bit of live content there little bit of live content there together and I've been tracking what together and I've been tracking what together and I've been tracking what you've been doing in the world in terms you've been doing in the world in terms you've been doing in the world in terms of your book and talking about the of your book and talking about the of your book and talking about the results in your manuscript and talking results in your manuscript and talking results in your manuscript and talking about the science and impact of about the science and impact of about the science and impact of deliberate cold exposure and SAA and I deliberate cold exposure and SAA and I deliberate cold exposure and SAA and I have to say that it's been a wonderful have to say that it's been a wonderful have to say that it's been a wonderful and remarkable thing to see and you're and remarkable thing to see and you're and remarkable thing to see and you're bringing so much quality information bringing so much quality information bringing so much quality information about this area that for long time I about this area that for long time I about this area that for long time I think was kind of Niche and is now think was kind of Niche and is now think was kind of Niche and is now becoming more and more mainstream so I'm becoming more and more mainstream so I'm becoming more and more mainstream so I'm going to start off with a thank you for going to start off with a thank you for going to start off with a thank you for being here and a thank you for the work being here and a thank you for the work being here and a thank you for the work that you've done and I'm looking forward that you've done and I'm looking forward that you've done and I'm looking forward to talking to you about it today so my to talking to you about it today so my to talking to you about it today so my first question um to get things started first question um to get things started first question um to get things started is what is happening when we get into an is what is happening when we get into an is what is happening when we get into an uncomfortably cold environment so for uncomfortably cold environment so for uncomfortably cold environment so for instance if I'm really hot on a hot day instance if I'm really hot on a hot day instance if I'm really hot on a hot day jumping into a cold pool feels really jumping into a cold pool feels really jumping into a cold pool feels really good but if I'm already kind of uh at

10:00good but if I'm already kind of uh at good but if I'm already kind of uh at room temperature I'm a little bit chilly room temperature I'm a little bit chilly room temperature I'm a little bit chilly getting into that same temperature of getting into that same temperature of getting into that same temperature of water doesn't feel so good right there's water doesn't feel so good right there's water doesn't feel so good right there's a shock there so if you could just walk a shock there so if you could just walk a shock there so if you could just walk us through what happens when we get into us through what happens when we get into us through what happens when we get into uncomfortably cold water whether or not uncomfortably cold water whether or not uncomfortably cold water whether or not it's by way of shower or cold Plunge at it's by way of shower or cold Plunge at it's by way of shower or cold Plunge at the level of our physiology and if you'd the level of our physiology and if you'd the level of our physiology and if you'd like our psychology I think that's a like our psychology I think that's a like our psychology I think that's a good place for us to start because I good place for us to start because I good place for us to start because I think it will Orient people to their own think it will Orient people to their own think it will Orient people to their own experience if they do that and for those experience if they do that and for those experience if they do that and for those that haven't done it um might start to that haven't done it um might start to that haven't done it um might start to peel back some of the the layers as to peel back some of the the layers as to peel back some of the the layers as to what the underlying mechanisms of cold what the underlying mechanisms of cold what the underlying mechanisms of cold are yeah thank you for that question are yeah thank you for that question are yeah thank you for that question it's really good to just address what it's really good to just address what it's really good to just address what actually happens in our phology when we actually happens in our phology when we actually happens in our phology when we get cold and you can get cold in many get cold and you can get cold in many get cold and you can get cold in many ways so you can just head out for the ways so you can just head out for the ways so you can just head out for the one that gives you the most potent one that gives you the most potent one that gives you the most potent stressor which is submerging into cold stressor which is submerging into cold stressor which is submerging into cold water and but you could also go in water and but you could also go in water and but you could also go in outside in the cold wind that's also outside in the cold wind that's also outside in the cold wind that's also going to activate your um your going to activate your um your going to activate your um your sympathetic nervous system so get all sympathetic nervous system so get all sympathetic nervous system so get all these neurotransmitter going in your these neurotransmitter going in your these neurotransmitter going in your body and so your your catac colam mines

11:00body and so your your catac colam mines body and so your your catac colam mines um let's just address that we are taking um let's just address that we are taking um let's just address that we are taking a cold plune for example so if you are a cold plune for example so if you are a cold plune for example so if you are very hot for example um before you go very hot for example um before you go very hot for example um before you go into the cold water it's going to feel into the cold water it's going to feel into the cold water it's going to feel less it's going to feel less stressful less it's going to feel less stressful less it's going to feel less stressful but the the temperature uh difference but the the temperature uh difference but the the temperature uh difference from your skin to the cold is definitely from your skin to the cold is definitely from your skin to the cold is definitely going to give you a a shock but your going to give you a a shock but your going to give you a a shock but your core temperature is warmer and that's core temperature is warmer and that's core temperature is warmer and that's going to feel a little bit better so going to feel a little bit better so going to feel a little bit better so that's why when people go into a sauna that's why when people go into a sauna that's why when people go into a sauna for example and go out and in into the for example and go out and in into the for example and go out and in into the cold water cold water cold water they they they can do it easily easier they they they can do it easily easier they they they can do it easily easier than if they were cold beforehand could than if they were cold beforehand could than if they were cold beforehand could I just um ask you a few questions so you I just um ask you a few questions so you I just um ask you a few questions so you you mentioned the sympathetic nervous you mentioned the sympathetic nervous you mentioned the sympathetic nervous system which for um people listening who system which for um people listening who system which for um people listening who aren't familiar with that is the the aren't familiar with that is the the aren't familiar with that is the the branch of our nervous system that's branch of our nervous system that's branch of our nervous system that's responsible for creating accelerations responsible for creating accelerations responsible for creating accelerations in heart rate um feelings of alertness in heart rate um feelings of alertness in heart rate um feelings of alertness it's accompanied with stress and the it's accompanied with stress and the it's accompanied with stress and the stress response but it's accompanied stress response but it's accompanied stress response but it's accompanied with waking up in the morning for that with waking up in the morning for that with waking up in the morning for that matter so it's not always about stress matter so it's not always about stress matter so it's not always about stress and then you mentioned the catacol means and then you mentioned the catacol means and then you mentioned the catacol means which um are dopamine epinephrine and

12:00which um are dopamine epinephrine and which um are dopamine epinephrine and norepinephrine so maybe a little bit norepinephrine so maybe a little bit norepinephrine so maybe a little bit later we'll talk about those individual later we'll talk about those individual later we'll talk about those individual neurotransmitters but you rais a really neurotransmitters but you rais a really neurotransmitters but you rais a really important point which is something I get important point which is something I get important point which is something I get asked about a lot for people that are asked about a lot for people that are asked about a lot for people that are curious about using deliberate cold curious about using deliberate cold curious about using deliberate cold exposure which is how cold should the exposure which is how cold should the exposure which is how cold should the water be and I know it's very hard to water be and I know it's very hard to water be and I know it's very hard to give a straight prescription for that give a straight prescription for that give a straight prescription for that because I think it boils down to what because I think it boils down to what because I think it boils down to what you just said which is it's really the you just said which is it's really the you just said which is it's really the difference between your current difference between your current difference between your current temperature and really the temperature temperature and really the temperature temperature and really the temperature at the surface of your skin and the at the surface of your skin and the at the surface of your skin and the temperature of the water so if you're temperature of the water so if you're temperature of the water so if you're very warm getting into cold feels good very warm getting into cold feels good very warm getting into cold feels good if you're already cold getting into more if you're already cold getting into more if you're already cold getting into more cold feels stressful um is there any way cold feels stressful um is there any way cold feels stressful um is there any way that we can start to gauge what is the that we can start to gauge what is the that we can start to gauge what is the best way to approach a deliberate cold best way to approach a deliberate cold best way to approach a deliberate cold exposure protocol I mean should it feel exposure protocol I mean should it feel exposure protocol I mean should it feel uncomfortable and that leads into the uncomfortable and that leads into the uncomfortable and that leads into the question of how do we balance the question of how do we balance the question of how do we balance the discomfort with the amount of time that discomfort with the amount of time that discomfort with the amount of time that we spend in so for instance if it's just we spend in so for instance if it's just we spend in so for instance if it's just a little bit uncomfortable we spending a little bit uncomfortable we spending a little bit uncomfortable we spending more time in the cold get us the same more time in the cold get us the same more time in the cold get us the same benefit as getting into VAR benefit as getting into VAR benefit as getting into VAR uncomfortably cold water for a very

13:00uncomfortably cold water for a very uncomfortably cold water for a very short period of time yeah that it's short period of time yeah that it's short period of time yeah that it's really good question and I definitely really good question and I definitely really good question and I definitely think that this could be um future think that this could be um future think that this could be um future studies on this as well to really studies on this as well to really studies on this as well to really unravel uh what kind of Protocols are unravel uh what kind of Protocols are unravel uh what kind of Protocols are the are the best way or also for which the are the best way or also for which the are the best way or also for which outcomes of course so if the temperature outcomes of course so if the temperature outcomes of course so if the temperature is uh very cold and you feel that that is uh very cold and you feel that that is uh very cold and you feel that that you're also feel very cold then you you you're also feel very cold then you you you're also feel very cold then you you should stay in the water a little bit should stay in the water a little bit should stay in the water a little bit longer so I think it's just you should longer so I think it's just you should longer so I think it's just you should get uncomfortable cold so as long as you get uncomfortable cold so as long as you get uncomfortable cold so as long as you get uncomfortable cold it's cold enough get uncomfortable cold it's cold enough get uncomfortable cold it's cold enough and you get this what we call the cold and you get this what we call the cold and you get this what we call the cold shock so the cold shock is activation of shock so the cold shock is activation of shock so the cold shock is activation of your sympathetic nervous system and your sympathetic nervous system and your sympathetic nervous system and these activation of the the catacol these activation of the the catacol these activation of the the catacol mines which you just mentioned before mines which you just mentioned before mines which you just mentioned before does the shock mean that I'm having does the shock mean that I'm having does the shock mean that I'm having trouble controlling my breathing is that trouble controlling my breathing is that trouble controlling my breathing is that a good gauge uh yeah you can say so a good gauge uh yeah you can say so a good gauge uh yeah you can say so because that's kind of like how we because that's kind of like how we because that's kind of like how we Define it so you hyperventilate so you Define it so you hyperventilate so you Define it so you hyperventilate so you have a faster um uh breathing rate um so have a faster um uh breathing rate um so have a faster um uh breathing rate um so that increases or because you activate

14:00that increases or because you activate that increases or because you activate your gasping reflex if you are new to your gasping reflex if you are new to your gasping reflex if you are new to this um but if you are adapted it it this um but if you are adapted it it this um but if you are adapted it it kind of subsides with time with kind of subsides with time with kind of subsides with time with adaptation so what you can do is that adaptation so what you can do is that adaptation so what you can do is that you can train this cold exposure and you you can train this cold exposure and you you can train this cold exposure and you can kind of like Get adapted to it so can kind of like Get adapted to it so can kind of like Get adapted to it so you don't have this hyperventilating you don't have this hyperventilating you don't have this hyperventilating response every time you go out in the response every time you go out in the response every time you go out in the cold water so this is like building up cold water so this is like building up cold water so this is like building up your resilience building building up your resilience building building up your resilience building building up your adaptation is going to make this your adaptation is going to make this your adaptation is going to make this shock like subside a bit so it's it's shock like subside a bit so it's it's shock like subside a bit so it's it's always harder in the beginning but you always harder in the beginning but you always harder in the beginning but you should do hard things right it's not should do hard things right it's not should do hard things right it's not something that we you shouldn't think something that we you shouldn't think something that we you shouldn't think about cold water and cold water about cold water and cold water about cold water and cold water immersion as something that is immersion as something that is immersion as something that is comfortable it should be hard because comfortable it should be hard because comfortable it should be hard because that's the point of it right if you that's the point of it right if you that's the point of it right if you enjoy it then yeah then I'm I'm thinking enjoy it then yeah then I'm I'm thinking enjoy it then yeah then I'm I'm thinking something is wrong it's not right you something is wrong it's not right you something is wrong it's not right you should not enjoy it well this is an should not enjoy it well this is an should not enjoy it well this is an important point that you're making important point that you're making important point that you're making because I think that many people shy because I think that many people shy because I think that many people shy away from deliberate cold exposure away from deliberate cold exposure away from deliberate cold exposure because it's uncomfortable in a way that because it's uncomfortable in a way that because it's uncomfortable in a way that at least from my experience is very at least from my experience is very at least from my experience is very different than the disc comfort of different than the disc comfort of different than the disc comfort of exercise because with exercise for

15:00exercise because with exercise for exercise because with exercise for instance um if running hard you know instance um if running hard you know instance um if running hard you know running fast and breathing hard is running fast and breathing hard is running fast and breathing hard is uncomfortable you can slow down or walk uncomfortable you can slow down or walk uncomfortable you can slow down or walk if um you know lifting weights is if um you know lifting weights is if um you know lifting weights is uncomfortable you can remove some weight uncomfortable you can remove some weight uncomfortable you can remove some weight or reduce the number of repetitions or or reduce the number of repetitions or or reduce the number of repetitions or stop with deliberate cold exposure I stop with deliberate cold exposure I stop with deliberate cold exposure I suppose you can be sort of halfway in suppose you can be sort of halfway in suppose you can be sort of halfway in halfway out of the water or partially halfway out of the water or partially halfway out of the water or partially underneath the cold shower but it's very underneath the cold shower but it's very underneath the cold shower but it's very hard to hard to hard to titrate and adjust the level to it's titrate and adjust the level to it's titrate and adjust the level to it's kind of all or none and I've seen um kind of all or none and I've seen um kind of all or none and I've seen um actually just I can tell this by actually just I can tell this by actually just I can tell this by anecdote I've done some work with anecdote I've done some work with anecdote I've done some work with military Special Operations um I won't military Special Operations um I won't military Special Operations um I won't say which country this was outside the say which country this was outside the say which country this was outside the US um and these are very tough US um and these are very tough US um and these are very tough individuals they're used to going individuals they're used to going individuals they're used to going without sleep and doing hard high without sleep and doing hard high without sleep and doing hard high consequence high risk kind of work and consequence high risk kind of work and consequence high risk kind of work and they were asked to do some cold water they were asked to do some cold water they were asked to do some cold water exposure training and I was there that exposure training and I was there that exposure training and I was there that day and it was remarkable about a third day and it was remarkable about a third day and it was remarkable about a third of them just went straight in and just of them just went straight in and just of them just went straight in and just kind of grinded through it you know like

16:00kind of grinded through it you know like kind of grinded through it you know like they looked stoic anyway to me um there they looked stoic anyway to me um there they looked stoic anyway to me um there were a few whimpers no cries about a were a few whimpers no cries about a were a few whimpers no cries about a third um talked a lot and got really you third um talked a lot and got really you third um talked a lot and got really you could tell that they were agitated and could tell that they were agitated and could tell that they were agitated and anxious but they made it through and anxious but they made it through and anxious but they made it through and then about a third of them just simply then about a third of them just simply then about a third of them just simply would not get in past their knees or would not get in past their knees or would not get in past their knees or thighs were just it seemed like they thighs were just it seemed like they thighs were just it seemed like they were just dreading the whole experience were just dreading the whole experience were just dreading the whole experience some actually didn't actually go in some actually didn't actually go in some actually didn't actually go in completely um which was really completely um which was really completely um which was really surprising to me and I you couldn't tell surprising to me and I you couldn't tell surprising to me and I you couldn't tell based on their physical appearance or based on their physical appearance or based on their physical appearance or anything else about them they're all anything else about them they're all anything else about them they're all high performers as to who would have high performers as to who would have high performers as to who would have this response so it seems like people this response so it seems like people this response so it seems like people vary tremendously in terms of their vary tremendously in terms of their vary tremendously in terms of their ability to embrace the discomfort of the ability to embrace the discomfort of the ability to embrace the discomfort of the cold is that from your studies is that cold is that from your studies is that cold is that from your studies is that your experience as well or or are there your experience as well or or are there your experience as well or or are there these weird mutants who seem to just these weird mutants who seem to just these weird mutants who seem to just love going into the cold for the first love going into the cold for the first love going into the cold for the first time so some people just feel better in time so some people just feel better in time so some people just feel better in the cold and some people are dread the the cold and some people are dread the the cold and some people are dread the cold even more and you can say the more cold even more and you can say the more cold even more and you can say the more people are pushing the cold away they people are pushing the cold away they people are pushing the cold away they might feel C pain even more so they they

17:00might feel C pain even more so they they might feel C pain even more so they they they would definitely people who are they would definitely people who are they would definitely people who are maybe the solders you just talked about maybe the solders you just talked about maybe the solders you just talked about they some of them might be already they some of them might be already they some of them might be already adapted to the gold cold so if they are adapted to the gold cold so if they are adapted to the gold cold so if they are not scared of the cold they go out and not scared of the cold they go out and not scared of the cold they go out and they embrace the cold in a better way it they embrace the cold in a better way it they embrace the cold in a better way it could also be that some people have a could also be that some people have a could also be that some people have a more sensitive nervous system and when more sensitive nervous system and when more sensitive nervous system and when you are a bit sensitive to the cold you you are a bit sensitive to the cold you you are a bit sensitive to the cold you will of course try to get away from it will of course try to get away from it will of course try to get away from it right and you will also have the co pain right and you will also have the co pain right and you will also have the co pain more um feel the C pain more if the if more um feel the C pain more if the if more um feel the C pain more if the if if you avoid it so the more you avoid if you avoid it so the more you avoid if you avoid it so the more you avoid the cold the the more pain painful it the cold the the more pain painful it the cold the the more pain painful it will feel uh when you go into it so yeah will feel uh when you go into it so yeah will feel uh when you go into it so yeah you mentioned being outside in a t-shirt you mentioned being outside in a t-shirt you mentioned being outside in a t-shirt versus um cold immersion up to the neck versus um cold immersion up to the neck versus um cold immersion up to the neck versus shower I think um this is versus shower I think um this is versus shower I think um this is something a lot of people wonder about something a lot of people wonder about something a lot of people wonder about what are the differences in terms of what are the differences in terms of what are the differences in terms of impact short-term and perhaps even long impact short-term and perhaps even long impact short-term and perhaps even long term between cold showers cold plunge to term between cold showers cold plunge to term between cold showers cold plunge to the neck so that could be in ice water the neck so that could be in ice water the neck so that could be in ice water or just very cold water um um immersion

18:00or just very cold water um um immersion or just very cold water um um immersion with dunking one's head and then coming with dunking one's head and then coming with dunking one's head and then coming up because obviously people have to come up because obviously people have to come up because obviously people have to come up for erir at some point and then up for erir at some point and then up for erir at some point and then simply being outside on a cold day in simply being outside on a cold day in simply being outside on a cold day in shorts and a t-shirt or something of shorts and a t-shirt or something of shorts and a t-shirt or something of that sort so there are different that sort so there are different that sort so there are different outcomes um because there they are very outcomes um because there they are very outcomes um because there they are very different uh exposures of the cold to different uh exposures of the cold to different uh exposures of the cold to your cold receptors in your skin so the your cold receptors in your skin so the your cold receptors in your skin so the more you can say you cover your body in more you can say you cover your body in more you can say you cover your body in the cold which you would do in cold the cold which you would do in cold the cold which you would do in cold water because there are of course cover water because there are of course cover water because there are of course cover totally and then and the molecules are totally and then and the molecules are totally and then and the molecules are closer to your skin you will have a more closer to your skin you will have a more closer to your skin you will have a more potent um activation of all your cat uh potent um activation of all your cat uh potent um activation of all your cat uh receptors in the skin so that one will receptors in the skin so that one will receptors in the skin so that one will definitely activate your autonomous definitely activate your autonomous definitely activate your autonomous nervous system more and Rapid H compared nervous system more and Rapid H compared nervous system more and Rapid H compared to going out in a t-shirt in the cold to going out in a t-shirt in the cold to going out in a t-shirt in the cold wind just go for a walk um but that is wind just go for a walk um but that is wind just go for a walk um but that is also something that's going to activate also something that's going to activate also something that's going to activate your uh sympathetic nervous system your uh sympathetic nervous system your uh sympathetic nervous system meaning then that you have an increase meaning then that you have an increase meaning then that you have an increase in nor pen in nor pen in nor pen and you will activate something called

19:00and you will activate something called and you will activate something called uh the the brown fat so this is a uh the the brown fat so this is a uh the the brown fat so this is a healthy kind of fat tissue that we have healthy kind of fat tissue that we have healthy kind of fat tissue that we have in our body and when you activate that in our body and when you activate that in our body and when you activate that that's going to um increase your that's going to um increase your that's going to um increase your metabolism before we talk about Brown metabolism before we talk about Brown metabolism before we talk about Brown fat and I'm so glad you brought it up um fat and I'm so glad you brought it up um fat and I'm so glad you brought it up um because so much to talk about there uh because so much to talk about there uh because so much to talk about there uh what about cold shower I mean obviously what about cold shower I mean obviously what about cold shower I mean obviously cold shower is somewhere in between yeah cold shower is somewhere in between yeah cold shower is somewhere in between yeah um being out outside in the Air Cold Air um being out outside in the Air Cold Air um being out outside in the Air Cold Air versus uh being immersed up to the neck versus uh being immersed up to the neck versus uh being immersed up to the neck if we had more studies on on cold if we had more studies on on cold if we had more studies on on cold showers we would learn more about how showers we would learn more about how showers we would learn more about how does that activate our metabolism how does that activate our metabolism how does that activate our metabolism how does that increase our neurotransmitters does that increase our neurotransmitters does that increase our neurotransmitters into the brain which could also have an into the brain which could also have an into the brain which could also have an impact our on our mental balance so I impact our on our mental balance so I impact our on our mental balance so I think that would be interesting for the think that would be interesting for the think that would be interesting for the future um but what we do know is from future um but what we do know is from future um but what we do know is from from from activating Brown fat and both from from activating Brown fat and both from from activating Brown fat and both from rodent St studies but also in from rodent St studies but also in from rodent St studies but also in humans is that as soon as we get cold on humans is that as soon as we get cold on humans is that as soon as we get cold on our skin we will activate our Brown fat our skin we will activate our Brown fat our skin we will activate our Brown fat so it is kind of like our first

20:00so it is kind of like our first so it is kind of like our first responder in in the body to keep uh our responder in in the body to keep uh our responder in in the body to keep uh our um temperature up so our muscles is like um temperature up so our muscles is like um temperature up so our muscles is like the second tissue in our body we have the second tissue in our body we have the second tissue in our body we have two tissues which can increase our two tissues which can increase our two tissues which can increase our thermogenesis so the brown fat which is thermogenesis so the brown fat which is thermogenesis so the brown fat which is like always like temperature regulating like always like temperature regulating like always like temperature regulating our body and then we have uh the the our body and then we have uh the the our body and then we have uh the the muscles which will secondarily H start muscles which will secondarily H start muscles which will secondarily H start to shiver and that's going to increase to shiver and that's going to increase to shiver and that's going to increase our um temperature in the body but as our um temperature in the body but as our um temperature in the body but as soon as you go into a cold shower you soon as you go into a cold shower you soon as you go into a cold shower you will activate your Brown fat also will activate your Brown fat also will activate your Brown fat also immediately so it could be good also for immediately so it could be good also for immediately so it could be good also for increasing metabolism in theory because increasing metabolism in theory because increasing metabolism in theory because we haven't really any studies showing we haven't really any studies showing we haven't really any studies showing how much does it actually activate the how much does it actually activate the how much does it actually activate the brown fat so if someone out there wants brown fat so if someone out there wants brown fat so if someone out there wants to do a study on that great I've thought to do a study on that great I've thought to do a study on that great I've thought about why there are fewer studies of about why there are fewer studies of about why there are fewer studies of cold showers than cold immersion and I cold showers than cold immersion and I cold showers than cold immersion and I think the answer to my mind is that from think the answer to my mind is that from think the answer to my mind is that from a methodological standpoint it's just a methodological standpoint it's just a methodological standpoint it's just harder to do because if people are harder to do because if people are harder to do because if people are getting into cold water up to the neck getting into cold water up to the neck getting into cold water up to the neck they're getting into cold water up up to they're getting into cold water up up to they're getting into cold water up up to the neck whereas if people are getting the neck whereas if people are getting

21:00the neck whereas if people are getting into a cold shower some people are into a cold shower some people are into a cold shower some people are larger or smaller some people are going larger or smaller some people are going larger or smaller some people are going to stand under the shower with it to stand under the shower with it to stand under the shower with it hitting their head some people the back hitting their head some people the back hitting their head some people the back of the neck you could direct people to of the neck you could direct people to of the neck you could direct people to do it yeah but it's a little bit um more do it yeah but it's a little bit um more do it yeah but it's a little bit um more difficult also I think uh for you and I difficult also I think uh for you and I difficult also I think uh for you and I are both research scientists there's a are both research scientists there's a are both research scientists there's a little bit of a um methological little bit of a um methological little bit of a um methological challenge that might seem silly to challenge that might seem silly to challenge that might seem silly to people but it's a real one which is if people but it's a real one which is if people but it's a real one which is if people are in a cold shower also the people are in a cold shower also the people are in a cold shower also the water is going to be I'm kind of pushing water is going to be I'm kind of pushing water is going to be I'm kind of pushing their clothing against their skin their clothing against their skin their clothing against their skin there's a certain vulnerability in uh there's a certain vulnerability in uh there's a certain vulnerability in uh for most people um coming to a for most people um coming to a for most people um coming to a laboratory in the first place let alone laboratory in the first place let alone laboratory in the first place let alone being observed while they shower whereas being observed while they shower whereas being observed while they shower whereas when you get into cold IM cold immersion when you get into cold IM cold immersion when you get into cold IM cold immersion you you're getting under the water and you you're getting under the water and you you're getting under the water and you know some people might roll their you know some people might roll their you know some people might roll their eyes and say okay really is that the eyes and say okay really is that the eyes and say okay really is that the barrier but you know science exists in barrier but you know science exists in barrier but you know science exists in these real world contexts and this will these real world contexts and this will these real world contexts and this will vary by culture and things of that sort vary by culture and things of that sort vary by culture and things of that sort but we run human subjects in my lab and but we run human subjects in my lab and but we run human subjects in my lab and I'll tell you just um the process of I'll tell you just um the process of I'll tell you just um the process of getting people to the laboratory and getting people to the laboratory and getting people to the laboratory and having them Park and find the lab and having them Park and find the lab and having them Park and find the lab and you know it's a whole new environment you know it's a whole new environment you know it's a whole new environment with people in lab coats and people with people in lab coats and people with people in lab coats and people moving around and Where's the restroom I moving around and Where's the restroom I moving around and Where's the restroom I mean there's there's a certain amount of mean there's there's a certain amount of mean there's there's a certain amount of stress just associated with taking part

22:00stress just associated with taking part stress just associated with taking part in a study for most human subjects so um in a study for most human subjects so um in a study for most human subjects so um I uh totally agree however we need more I uh totally agree however we need more I uh totally agree however we need more studies of of cold showers it's just a studies of of cold showers it's just a studies of of cold showers it's just a harder environment to control in in my harder environment to control in in my harder environment to control in in my in my mind so it sounds like any form of in my mind so it sounds like any form of in my mind so it sounds like any form of cold to the skin that people register as cold to the skin that people register as cold to the skin that people register as what you call a cold shock or what you call a cold shock or what you call a cold shock or uncomfortable like oh like this is kind uncomfortable like oh like this is kind uncomfortable like oh like this is kind of jarring activates the brown fat do we of jarring activates the brown fat do we of jarring activates the brown fat do we know what the pathway is from cold know what the pathway is from cold know what the pathway is from cold receptors on the skin to the brown fat I receptors on the skin to the brown fat I receptors on the skin to the brown fat I mean how does the brown fat know that mean how does the brown fat know that mean how does the brown fat know that we're cold yeah really good question and we're cold yeah really good question and we're cold yeah really good question and it seems that I I think that of course it seems that I I think that of course it seems that I I think that of course in the future we will know much more in the future we will know much more in the future we will know much more about these Pathways but what we do know about these Pathways but what we do know about these Pathways but what we do know is that uh the co-receptors will send a is that uh the co-receptors will send a is that uh the co-receptors will send a signal to our temperature regulating signal to our temperature regulating signal to our temperature regulating Center in in the brain so hypothalamus Center in in the brain so hypothalamus Center in in the brain so hypothalamus um and that's going to be um taking in um and that's going to be um taking in um and that's going to be um taking in this message and we have so many co- this message and we have so many co- this message and we have so many co- receptors in the skin so it's going to receptors in the skin so it's going to receptors in the skin so it's going to be very fast as you can say if you be very fast as you can say if you be very fast as you can say if you immers the body into coow this is going immers the body into coow this is going immers the body into coow this is going to be so rapid uh so it will have a

23:00to be so rapid uh so it will have a to be so rapid uh so it will have a rapid increase in neurotransmitters in rapid increase in neurotransmitters in rapid increase in neurotransmitters in the brain for no adrenaline adrenaline the brain for no adrenaline adrenaline the brain for no adrenaline adrenaline and cortisol and H which is not that and cortisol and H which is not that and cortisol and H which is not that much but it's but it's still there so much but it's but it's still there so much but it's but it's still there so you have this increase in uh no you have this increase in uh no you have this increase in uh no adrenaline which will then immediately adrenaline which will then immediately adrenaline which will then immediately activate the brown fat um because the activate the brown fat um because the activate the brown fat um because the you can say the activator is the most you can say the activator is the most you can say the activator is the most potent one cold and no adrenaline that's potent one cold and no adrenaline that's potent one cold and no adrenaline that's going to activate the bra but there's going to activate the bra but there's going to activate the bra but there's also a direct pathway from the cobra also a direct pathway from the cobra also a direct pathway from the cobra ctors in the skin to the to the round ctors in the skin to the to the round ctors in the skin to the to the round fat which really shows that if because fat which really shows that if because fat which really shows that if because of these different Pathways it shows of these different Pathways it shows of these different Pathways it shows that that it could be that this tissue that that it could be that this tissue that that it could be that this tissue to keep us warm was to keep us warm was to keep us warm was was developed in in our evolvement as was developed in in our evolvement as was developed in in our evolvement as humans to keep us warm and to save us humans to keep us warm and to save us humans to keep us warm and to save us whenever the temperature on our skin whenever the temperature on our skin whenever the temperature on our skin varies just a little bit to keep us in varies just a little bit to keep us in varies just a little bit to keep us in that right homeostatic balance so we that right homeostatic balance so we that right homeostatic balance so we don't get hypothermic um but also so we don't get hypothermic um but also so we don't get hypothermic um but also so we don't get hyperthermic but because it

24:00don't get hyperthermic but because it don't get hyperthermic but because it seems that the brown fat is also seems that the brown fat is also seems that the brown fat is also activated when we get warmer in our skin activated when we get warmer in our skin activated when we get warmer in our skin so it's also um maybe a temperature so it's also um maybe a temperature so it's also um maybe a temperature regulator in our in our body but the regulator in our in our body but the regulator in our in our body but the pathways is different I think it's also pathways is different I think it's also pathways is different I think it's also a third pathway from directly from the a third pathway from directly from the a third pathway from directly from the muscles so the brown fat is also muscles so the brown fat is also muscles so the brown fat is also activated um even though the the muscles activated um even though the the muscles activated um even though the the muscles are starting to shiver so there's a an are starting to shiver so there's a an are starting to shiver so there's a an extra pathway that way to keep our uh extra pathway that way to keep our uh extra pathway that way to keep our uh our temperature up so muscles and brown our temperature up so muscles and brown our temperature up so muscles and brown fat working together to to keep us warm fat working together to to keep us warm fat working together to to keep us warm so we don't uh suffer too much in the in so we don't uh suffer too much in the in so we don't uh suffer too much in the in the cold water it's super interesting the cold water it's super interesting the cold water it's super interesting and what here you're pointing to is the and what here you're pointing to is the and what here you're pointing to is the existence of three parallel Pathways and existence of three parallel Pathways and existence of three parallel Pathways and this notion of parallel Pathways comes this notion of parallel Pathways comes this notion of parallel Pathways comes up over and over again in biology as you up over and over again in biology as you up over and over again in biology as you and I know and I me I think it's and I know and I me I think it's and I know and I me I think it's important for people to know about important for people to know about important for people to know about because um as you said so so eloquently because um as you said so so eloquently because um as you said so so eloquently the when something is very important to the when something is very important to the when something is very important to our survival or Andor our survival or Andor our survival or Andor Evolution the brain and body uh in Evolution the brain and body uh in Evolution the brain and body uh in install multiple mechanisms for it not

25:00install multiple mechanisms for it not install multiple mechanisms for it not just one and um and so it sounds like just one and um and so it sounds like just one and um and so it sounds like it's cold skin cold on the skin triggers it's cold skin cold on the skin triggers it's cold skin cold on the skin triggers a response in the hypothalamus which a response in the hypothalamus which a response in the hypothalamus which then activates Brown fat cold receptors then activates Brown fat cold receptors then activates Brown fat cold receptors in the skin directly to the brown fat in the skin directly to the brown fat in the skin directly to the brown fat and then shivering in the muscle to the and then shivering in the muscle to the and then shivering in the muscle to the brown fat um I want to talk about Brown brown fat um I want to talk about Brown brown fat um I want to talk about Brown fat in depth and learn from you more fat in depth and learn from you more fat in depth and learn from you more about Brown fat um before that however I about Brown fat um before that however I about Brown fat um before that however I want to ask about shiver um I've heard want to ask about shiver um I've heard want to ask about shiver um I've heard that shiver causes the release of that shiver causes the release of that shiver causes the release of succinate um which then activates the succinate um which then activates the succinate um which then activates the brown fat is it known whether or not brown fat is it known whether or not brown fat is it known whether or not inducing shiver is important and when inducing shiver is important and when inducing shiver is important and when should PE people Shiver I mean I've should PE people Shiver I mean I've should PE people Shiver I mean I've gotten into cold plunges and shivered gotten into cold plunges and shivered gotten into cold plunges and shivered while I was in there and then I've also while I was in there and then I've also while I was in there and then I've also had the had the had the experience of getting into a cold experience of getting into a cold experience of getting into a cold plunger a cold shower then getting out plunger a cold shower then getting out plunger a cold shower then getting out when even standing outside on a warm day when even standing outside on a warm day when even standing outside on a warm day after swimming in a pool and then after swimming in a pool and then after swimming in a pool and then starting to shiver so the shiver comes starting to shiver so the shiver comes starting to shiver so the shiver comes later so how important is shiver and later so how important is shiver and later so how important is shiver and does it matter when shiver

26:00does it matter when shiver does it matter when shiver happens yeah well shivering is is good happens yeah well shivering is is good happens yeah well shivering is is good because that increases your metabolism because that increases your metabolism because that increases your metabolism and that's going to burn some calories and that's going to burn some calories and that's going to burn some calories in your body you shouldn't be so afraid in your body you shouldn't be so afraid in your body you shouldn't be so afraid of shivering I think because the of shivering I think because the of shivering I think because the Shivering as long as you don't get too Shivering as long as you don't get too Shivering as long as you don't get too hypothermic so if you don't if you don't hypothermic so if you don't if you don't hypothermic so if you don't if you don't sit in the cold water for too long um sit in the cold water for too long um sit in the cold water for too long um and what you just said by shivering and what you just said by shivering and what you just said by shivering after you get up that is because of the after you get up that is because of the after you get up that is because of the after drop something called the after after drop something called the after after drop something called the after drop is when your core temperature uh drop is when your core temperature uh drop is when your core temperature uh decreases even after you get out of the decreases even after you get out of the decreases even after you get out of the cold water and it always does that um cold water and it always does that um cold water and it always does that um your body because it as soon as you get your body because it as soon as you get your body because it as soon as you get into the cold water all the your blood into the cold water all the your blood into the cold water all the your blood vessels is going to constrict because vessels is going to constrict because vessels is going to constrict because you need to keep your blood in your core you need to keep your blood in your core you need to keep your blood in your core and and keep your vital organs warm so and and keep your vital organs warm so and and keep your vital organs warm so as soon as you get up that those blood as soon as you get up that those blood as soon as you get up that those blood vessel will open again and the warm vessel will open again and the warm vessel will open again and the warm blood will flow out and get colder and blood will flow out and get colder and blood will flow out and get colder and then flow back again into the core and then flow back again into the core and then flow back again into the core and that's going to decrease the temperature that's going to decrease the temperature that's going to decrease the temperature in your core of course so that's the in your core of course so that's the in your core of course so that's the drop so that's the the drop got it I'm drop so that's the the drop got it I'm drop so that's the the drop got it I'm so glad you explained that I've heard um

27:00so glad you explained that I've heard um so glad you explained that I've heard um years ago whm Hoff I heard him talk years ago whm Hoff I heard him talk years ago whm Hoff I heard him talk about the drop and I've heard colleagues about the drop and I've heard colleagues about the drop and I've heard colleagues of mine talk about the drop but that's of mine talk about the drop but that's of mine talk about the drop but that's the first time I've ever heard it the first time I've ever heard it the first time I've ever heard it explained clearly let me let me make explained clearly let me let me make explained clearly let me let me make sure I understand this so um I get into sure I understand this so um I get into sure I understand this so um I get into cold water obviously I'm cold vessels cold water obviously I'm cold vessels cold water obviously I'm cold vessels constrict to keep blood near the center constrict to keep blood near the center constrict to keep blood near the center of my body keep me alive I get of my body keep me alive I get of my body keep me alive I get out out out the warming up of my body allows those the warming up of my body allows those the warming up of my body allows those vessels and capillaries to dilate again vessels and capillaries to dilate again vessels and capillaries to dilate again the blood goes out to the surface but the blood goes out to the surface but the blood goes out to the surface but the surface is still cold and so that the surface is still cold and so that the surface is still cold and so that blood is cooled and then my core body blood is cooled and then my core body blood is cooled and then my core body temperature drops and that's what you're temperature drops and that's what you're temperature drops and that's what you're referring to as the drop and that's what referring to as the drop and that's what referring to as the drop and that's what induces shiver exactly great and then am induces shiver exactly great and then am induces shiver exactly great and then am I right in thinking that then the shiver I right in thinking that then the shiver I right in thinking that then the shiver activates Brown fat which then warms me activates Brown fat which then warms me activates Brown fat which then warms me up again yes got it that's why you up again yes got it that's why you up again yes got it that's why you should end on the cold but we can get should end on the cold but we can get should end on the cold but we can get back to that yeah let's talk about yes back to that yeah let's talk about yes back to that yeah let's talk about yes ending on cold is um you know it's what ending on cold is um you know it's what ending on cold is um you know it's what I refer to as and what has now become I refer to as and what has now become I refer to as and what has now become known as the soberg principle which is known as the soberg principle which is known as the soberg principle which is um a really important principle about um a really important principle about um a really important principle about the importance of ending on cold um and

28:00the importance of ending on cold um and the importance of ending on cold um and not doing what I do which is to get into not doing what I do which is to get into not doing what I do which is to get into a hot shower or or back in the Sun but a hot shower or or back in the Sun but a hot shower or or back in the Sun but we we'll get back to that in in a few we we'll get back to that in in a few we we'll get back to that in in a few minutes so um that's wonderful um that minutes so um that's wonderful um that minutes so um that's wonderful um that you can explain that so clearly because you can explain that so clearly because you can explain that so clearly because I think that shiver is something that a I think that shiver is something that a I think that shiver is something that a lot of people do avoid people think oh I lot of people do avoid people think oh I lot of people do avoid people think oh I don't want the you know the chattering don't want the you know the chattering don't want the you know the chattering in the teeth and um and it feels like a in the teeth and um and it feels like a in the teeth and um and it feels like a loss of bodily control which really it loss of bodily control which really it loss of bodily control which really it is it's it's an autonomic response yeah is it's it's an autonomic response yeah is it's it's an autonomic response yeah but I don't think that people should but I don't think that people should but I don't think that people should should avoid it that much it's just like should avoid it that much it's just like should avoid it that much it's just like seeing shivering as a way of your body seeing shivering as a way of your body seeing shivering as a way of your body in the in a like it's training it's in the in a like it's training it's in the in a like it's training it's training for your for all your cells training for your for all your cells training for your for all your cells it's training for your muscles it's it's training for your muscles it's it's training for your muscles it's training off your metabolism and that's training off your metabolism and that's training off your metabolism and that's going to increase your What's called the going to increase your What's called the going to increase your What's called the insulin sensitivity so if you can like insulin sensitivity so if you can like insulin sensitivity so if you can like in your mind get used to the thought of in your mind get used to the thought of in your mind get used to the thought of shivering is just like when you go shivering is just like when you go shivering is just like when you go exercising in the training center and exercising in the training center and exercising in the training center and get that feeling of like oh this is get that feeling of like oh this is get that feeling of like oh this is tough now it hurts a little bit yeah tough now it hurts a little bit yeah tough now it hurts a little bit yeah it's going to hurt because that's what it's going to hurt because that's what it's going to hurt because that's what shivering also does but it's just a shivering also does but it's just a shivering also does but it's just a different way of training your cells in

29:00different way of training your cells in different way of training your cells in your body it's going to create what is your body it's going to create what is your body it's going to create what is healthy stress it's called hesis in the healthy stress it's called hesis in the healthy stress it's called hesis in the cells and the more you expose your your cells and the more you expose your your cells and the more you expose your your muscle cells or your brown fat cells to muscle cells or your brown fat cells to muscle cells or your brown fat cells to these kind of like healthy stresses these kind of like healthy stresses these kind of like healthy stresses exercise cold and heat exposure it's exercise cold and heat exposure it's exercise cold and heat exposure it's going to make them uh better at like going to make them uh better at like going to make them uh better at like activating and also um at keeping you activating and also um at keeping you activating and also um at keeping you healthy so as long as the the cells get healthy so as long as the the cells get healthy so as long as the the cells get exposed to this it it's going to keep exposed to this it it's going to keep exposed to this it it's going to keep them on its toes you can say because it them on its toes you can say because it them on its toes you can say because it becomes more robust um increasing these becomes more robust um increasing these becomes more robust um increasing these heat shock proteins and cold shock heat shock proteins and cold shock heat shock proteins and cold shock proteins in the cells to um make you proteins in the cells to um make you proteins in the cells to um make you more robust for the next time and that more robust for the next time and that more robust for the next time and that is also what happens when you go to the is also what happens when you go to the is also what happens when you go to the training center and I keep like do training center and I keep like do training center and I keep like do drawing that paralen because people drawing that paralen because people drawing that paralen because people today know more about we know more about today know more about we know more about today know more about we know more about exercise and what that's uh is going to exercise and what that's uh is going to exercise and what that's uh is going to do to your muscle cells um and but the do to your muscle cells um and but the do to your muscle cells um and but the same kind of like training is also what same kind of like training is also what same kind of like training is also what you do when you go out and and into the you do when you go out and and into the you do when you go out and and into the cold water and submer into cold water cold water and submer into cold water cold water and submer into cold water because that is just your cold training

30:00because that is just your cold training because that is just your cold training center you can say that and and also center you can say that and and also center you can say that and and also your heat Training Center going into the your heat Training Center going into the your heat Training Center going into the sauna because the cells are getting sauna because the cells are getting sauna because the cells are getting stronger with hortic stress so it's the stronger with hortic stress so it's the stronger with hortic stress so it's the same process just different same process just different same process just different practices I'm so glad that you brought practices I'm so glad that you brought practices I'm so glad that you brought up the fact that the discomfort or the up the fact that the discomfort or the up the fact that the discomfort or the embarrassment or both of shiver is still embarrassment or both of shiver is still embarrassment or both of shiver is still crucial to uh actually to reach for and crucial to uh actually to reach for and crucial to uh actually to reach for and try and experience the same way that try and experience the same way that try and experience the same way that with exercise um I think a lot of people with exercise um I think a lot of people with exercise um I think a lot of people don't realize this but when we did our don't realize this but when we did our don't realize this but when we did our series with Dr Andy Galpin it became series with Dr Andy Galpin it became series with Dr Andy Galpin it became clear to me what should have already clear to me what should have already clear to me what should have already been clear to me and I think that most been clear to me and I think that most been clear to me and I think that most people don't realize which is that if we people don't realize which is that if we people don't realize which is that if we were to measure um heart rate blood were to measure um heart rate blood were to measure um heart rate blood pressure um stress hormones and pressure um stress hormones and pressure um stress hormones and inflammation in a human being during inflammation in a human being during inflammation in a human being during exercise it would look as if they were exercise it would look as if they were exercise it would look as if they were ready to die blood pressure would be ready to die blood pressure would be ready to die blood pressure would be high inflammation is through the roof high inflammation is through the roof high inflammation is through the roof but all of that is setting in motion and but all of that is setting in motion and but all of that is setting in motion and AD adaptation or set of adaptations that AD adaptation or set of adaptations that AD adaptation or set of adaptations that allow blood pressure to be lower at rest allow blood pressure to be lower at rest allow blood pressure to be lower at rest that allow um inflammation markers to be that allow um inflammation markers to be that allow um inflammation markers to be lower at rest all the things that

31:00lower at rest all the things that lower at rest all the things that everybody is seeking with exercise in everybody is seeking with exercise in everybody is seeking with exercise in addition to of course the aesthetic addition to of course the aesthetic addition to of course the aesthetic changes that people are seeking with changes that people are seeking with changes that people are seeking with exercise sounds like the exact same exercise sounds like the exact same exercise sounds like the exact same things are happening with the cold so um things are happening with the cold so um things are happening with the cold so um the Redundant message here seems to be the Redundant message here seems to be the Redundant message here seems to be that the more discomfort provided it's that the more discomfort provided it's that the more discomfort provided it's done safely just like with exercise the done safely just like with exercise the done safely just like with exercise the more more more shivering the um the more cold shock shivering the um the more cold shock shivering the um the more cold shock provided it's not to the extreme and provided it's not to the extreme and provided it's not to the extreme and stop somebody's heart right we can talk stop somebody's heart right we can talk stop somebody's heart right we can talk about thresholds for that a little bit about thresholds for that a little bit about thresholds for that a little bit later it sounds like all of that is later it sounds like all of that is later it sounds like all of that is going to set in motion some long-term going to set in motion some long-term going to set in motion some long-term changes that will make people feel changes that will make people feel changes that will make people feel better and will improve health could you better and will improve health could you better and will improve health could you just touch on a few of the longer term just touch on a few of the longer term just touch on a few of the longer term changes that are known to occur I mean changes that are known to occur I mean changes that are known to occur I mean I'm well aware of the study showing that I'm well aware of the study showing that I'm well aware of the study showing that uh I think it was European Journal uh I think it was European Journal uh I think it was European Journal physiology it was uh the European physiology it was uh the European physiology it was uh the European Journal physiology showing long lasting Journal physiology showing long lasting Journal physiology showing long lasting increases in catac colomines dopamine increases in catac colomines dopamine increases in catac colomines dopamine norepinephrine and um epinephrine for norepinephrine and um epinephrine for norepinephrine and um epinephrine for many hours after deliberate cold many hours after deliberate cold many hours after deliberate cold exposure what are some of the other exposure what are some of the other exposure what are some of the other things that happen at the level of things that happen at the level of things that happen at the level of metabolism and brown fat in let's say

32:00metabolism and brown fat in let's say metabolism and brown fat in let's say the hours and um day after deliberate the hours and um day after deliberate the hours and um day after deliberate cold cold cold exposure as soon as you go in of course exposure as soon as you go in of course exposure as soon as you go in of course there's an activation but it seems like there's an activation but it seems like there's an activation but it seems like no you're asking for the the later no you're asking for the the later no you're asking for the the later outcomes like blood pressure and stuff outcomes like blood pressure and stuff outcomes like blood pressure and stuff like that is that what you mean yeah like that is that what you mean yeah like that is that what you mean yeah blood pressure but also in terms of blood pressure but also in terms of blood pressure but also in terms of metabolism I know that you know in your metabolism I know that you know in your metabolism I know that you know in your study you should and we'll talk about study you should and we'll talk about study you should and we'll talk about Brown fat in depth here in a moment but Brown fat in depth here in a moment but Brown fat in depth here in a moment but that there were changes to the brown fat that there were changes to the brown fat that there were changes to the brown fat that equate to changes in for instance that equate to changes in for instance that equate to changes in for instance people's ability to be comfortable in people's ability to be comfortable in people's ability to be comfortable in colder environments when they're not colder environments when they're not colder environments when they're not doing deliberate cold exposure or in the doing deliberate cold exposure or in the doing deliberate cold exposure or in the same way that I can um exercise on an same way that I can um exercise on an same way that I can um exercise on an exercise bike or go for a hard run but exercise bike or go for a hard run but exercise bike or go for a hard run but then if I go hiking uh with the family then if I go hiking uh with the family then if I go hiking uh with the family on Sunday and it's a steep climb I could on Sunday and it's a steep climb I could on Sunday and it's a steep climb I could do that steep climb more easily because do that steep climb more easily because do that steep climb more easily because I'm quote unquote fit as a consequence I'm quote unquote fit as a consequence I'm quote unquote fit as a consequence of the of the exercise what are some of the of the exercise what are some of the of the exercise what are some what are some of the fitness adaptations what are some of the fitness adaptations what are some of the fitness adaptations of deliberate cold exposure yeah so what of deliberate cold exposure yeah so what of deliberate cold exposure yeah so what happens is that you you get adapted a happens is that you you get adapted a happens is that you you get adapted a little bit every time you go so you will little bit every time you go so you will little bit every time you go so you will like exercise get a Little Bit Stronger

33:00like exercise get a Little Bit Stronger like exercise get a Little Bit Stronger so every time you go into the cold water so every time you go into the cold water so every time you go into the cold water for every time you will be more exposed for every time you will be more exposed for every time you will be more exposed to it you will you feel more comfortable to it you will you feel more comfortable to it you will you feel more comfortable in the Cod so you're going to you're in the Cod so you're going to you're in the Cod so you're going to you're going to build your adaptation which going to build your adaptation which going to build your adaptation which happens on a metabolic level which is happens on a metabolic level which is happens on a metabolic level which is going to be the brown fat so you will going to be the brown fat so you will going to be the brown fat so you will have more activation of your brown fat have more activation of your brown fat have more activation of your brown fat the mitochondria in the the brown fat the mitochondria in the the brown fat the mitochondria in the the brown fat cells are going to be um you'll have cells are going to be um you'll have cells are going to be um you'll have more of those and they will be more more of those and they will be more more of those and they will be more efficient at heating you up because it efficient at heating you up because it efficient at heating you up because it expects the body expects you to to do expects the body expects you to to do expects the body expects you to to do this again so you are prepared in a way this again so you are prepared in a way this again so you are prepared in a way the capillaries in your skin is also the capillaries in your skin is also the capillaries in your skin is also will also become better at like will also become better at like will also become better at like constricting so you will have a better constricting so you will have a better constricting so you will have a better Shield of your body to uh prepare you Shield of your body to uh prepare you Shield of your body to uh prepare you for the next time so you will be become for the next time so you will be become for the next time so you will be become better at H going into the co water in better at H going into the co water in better at H going into the co water in that way so the the body makes these that way so the the body makes these that way so the the body makes these mechanism and changes your body in a way mechanism and changes your body in a way mechanism and changes your body in a way so you can expose yourself to the next so you can expose yourself to the next so you can expose yourself to the next time right and uh and also you will have time right and uh and also you will have time right and uh and also you will have um also a your um stress response will um also a your um stress response will um also a your um stress response will also be subside a bit so you will have a

34:00also be subside a bit so you will have a also be subside a bit so you will have a less increase of your catac colomines um less increase of your catac colomines um less increase of your catac colomines um with time with time also you have with time with time also you have with time with time also you have because of this activation of your uh because of this activation of your uh because of this activation of your uh Brown fat or your muscles you will have Brown fat or your muscles you will have Brown fat or your muscles you will have an increase in um uh in in your an increase in um uh in in your an increase in um uh in in your metabolism which will then make your metabolism which will then make your metabolism which will then make your insulin sensitivity uh better and this insulin sensitivity uh better and this insulin sensitivity uh better and this is shown in in studies for example um is shown in in studies for example um is shown in in studies for example um there's this interesting study I found there's this interesting study I found there's this interesting study I found just before I I started my PhD which was just before I I started my PhD which was just before I I started my PhD which was from um G Stormer um at L from 2016 from um G Stormer um at L from 2016 from um G Stormer um at L from 2016 where they measured um where they measured um where they measured um metabolism not in not on Brown fat but metabolism not in not on Brown fat but metabolism not in not on Brown fat but they measured insulin sensitivity in they measured insulin sensitivity in they measured insulin sensitivity in middle-aged men and women uh during one middle-aged men and women uh during one middle-aged men and women uh during one winter swimming season so they were not winter swimming season so they were not winter swimming season so they were not very young like they were in my study uh very young like they were in my study uh very young like they were in my study uh but they were they were middle-aged and but they were they were middle-aged and but they were they were middle-aged and I think this is very interesting so they I think this is very interesting so they I think this is very interesting so they during these four or five months they during these four or five months they during these four or five months they were winter swimming they saw that they were winter swimming they saw that they were winter swimming they saw that they had a lower blood pressure after the had a lower blood pressure after the had a lower blood pressure after the season and they had a lower heart rate season and they had a lower heart rate season and they had a lower heart rate and they also saw that they have a

35:00and they also saw that they have a and they also saw that they have a better insulin sensitivity and I think better insulin sensitivity and I think better insulin sensitivity and I think that is very interesting because if you that is very interesting because if you that is very interesting because if you can have a better insulin sensitivity can have a better insulin sensitivity can have a better insulin sensitivity you can prevent lifestyle diseases so um you can prevent lifestyle diseases so um you can prevent lifestyle diseases so um and with lower blood pressure which is a and with lower blood pressure which is a and with lower blood pressure which is a a very strong outcome also for telling a very strong outcome also for telling a very strong outcome also for telling how much inflammation you have in the how much inflammation you have in the how much inflammation you have in the body and because it didn't measure Brown body and because it didn't measure Brown body and because it didn't measure Brown fat um I figured that it could be that fat um I figured that it could be that fat um I figured that it could be that was the missing link that was the one of was the missing link that was the one of was the missing link that was the one of the explanation to why we see this um the explanation to why we see this um the explanation to why we see this um less inflammation in the body so um the less inflammation in the body so um the less inflammation in the body so um the longer outcomes the long-term outcomes longer outcomes the long-term outcomes longer outcomes the long-term outcomes could be that you lower your blood could be that you lower your blood could be that you lower your blood pressure and you have a lower heart rate pressure and you have a lower heart rate pressure and you have a lower heart rate um you also um have a better insulin um you also um have a better insulin um you also um have a better insulin sensitivity and a better glucose balance sensitivity and a better glucose balance sensitivity and a better glucose balance but that was shown that is shown in my but that was shown that is shown in my but that was shown that is shown in my study I'd like to take a quick break and study I'd like to take a quick break and study I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors athletic acknowledge one of our sponsors athletic acknowledge one of our sponsors athletic greens athletic greens now called ag1 is greens athletic greens now called ag1 is greens athletic greens now called ag1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that covers all of your foundational covers all of your foundational covers all of your foundational nutritional needs I've been taking

36:00nutritional needs I've been taking nutritional needs I've been taking athletic green since 2012 so I'm athletic green since 2012 so I'm athletic green since 2012 so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the delighted that they're sponsoring the delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast the reason I started taking podcast the reason I started taking podcast the reason I started taking athletic greens and the reason I still athletic greens and the reason I still athletic greens and the reason I still take athletic greens once or usually take athletic greens once or usually take athletic greens once or usually twice a day is that it gets me the twice a day is that it gets me the twice a day is that it gets me the probiotics that I need for gut health probiotics that I need for gut health probiotics that I need for gut health our gut is very important it's populated our gut is very important it's populated our gut is very important it's populated by gut microbiota that communicate with by gut microbiota that communicate with by gut microbiota that communicate with the brain the immune system and the brain the immune system and the brain the immune system and basically all the biological systems of basically all the biological systems of basically all the biological systems of our body to strongly impact our our body to strongly impact our our body to strongly impact our immediate and long-term health and those immediate and long-term health and those immediate and long-term health and those probiotics and athletic greens are probiotics and athletic greens are probiotics and athletic greens are optimal and vital for microbiotic health optimal and vital for microbiotic health optimal and vital for microbiotic health in addition athletic greens contains a in addition athletic greens contains a in addition athletic greens contains a number of adaptogens vitamins and number of adaptogens vitamins and number of adaptogens vitamins and minerals that make sure that all of my minerals that make sure that all of my minerals that make sure that all of my foundational nutritional needs are met foundational nutritional needs are met foundational nutritional needs are met and it tastes great if you'd like to try and it tastes great if you'd like to try and it tastes great if you'd like to try athletic greens you can go to athletic athletic greens you can go to athletic athletic greens you can go to athletic greens.com greens.com greens.com huberman and they'll give you five free huberman and they'll give you five free huberman and they'll give you five free travel packs that make it really easy to travel packs that make it really easy to travel packs that make it really easy to mix up athletic greens while you're on mix up athletic greens while you're on mix up athletic greens while you're on the road in the car on the plane Etc and the road in the car on the plane Etc and the road in the car on the plane Etc and they'll give you a year supply of they'll give you a year supply of they'll give you a year supply of vitamin D3 K2 again that's athletic vitamin D3 K2 again that's athletic vitamin D3 K2 again that's athletic greens.com / huberman to get the five greens.com / huberman to get the five greens.com / huberman to get the five free travel packs and the year supply of

37:00free travel packs and the year supply of free travel packs and the year supply of vitamin D3 K2 and we'll get back to the vitamin D3 K2 and we'll get back to the vitamin D3 K2 and we'll get back to the uh insulin sensitivity and glucose uh insulin sensitivity and glucose uh insulin sensitivity and glucose balance um that's a an impressive list balance um that's a an impressive list balance um that's a an impressive list of benefits um you know blood pressure of benefits um you know blood pressure of benefits um you know blood pressure of course most people are aware of blood of course most people are aware of blood of course most people are aware of blood pressure and what it is it's what they pressure and what it is it's what they pressure and what it is it's what they measure when we go to the doctor and um measure when we go to the doctor and um measure when we go to the doctor and um it's not very sexy nowadays you know it's not very sexy nowadays you know it's not very sexy nowadays you know blood pressure people oh you know blood blood pressure people oh you know blood blood pressure people oh you know blood pressure it's not you know people want pressure it's not you know people want pressure it's not you know people want to hear about the inflammatome and the to hear about the inflammatome and the to hear about the inflammatome and the microbiome and all of that stuff is microbiome and all of that stuff is microbiome and all of that stuff is really interesting but um I think that really interesting but um I think that really interesting but um I think that blood pressure doesn't get enough blood pressure doesn't get enough blood pressure doesn't get enough attention um and we have spoken to on attention um and we have spoken to on attention um and we have spoken to on this podcast to Dr Peter AA who um is an this podcast to Dr Peter AA who um is an this podcast to Dr Peter AA who um is an expert in longevity and health span and expert in longevity and health span and expert in longevity and health span and things of that sort and and I was things of that sort and and I was things of that sort and and I was surprised to learn again I shouldn't surprised to learn again I shouldn't surprised to learn again I shouldn't have been surprised that the number one have been surprised that the number one have been surprised that the number one reason people die worldwide is cerebral reason people die worldwide is cerebral reason people die worldwide is cerebral vascular disease and cardiovascular vascular disease and cardiovascular vascular disease and cardiovascular disease and there basically three things disease and there basically three things disease and there basically three things on the list of things to address one is on the list of things to address one is on the list of things to address one is not smoking um or vaping by the way not not smoking um or vaping by the way not not smoking um or vaping by the way not so there are a few other things related

38:00so there are a few other things related so there are a few other things related to blood markers apob and things of that to blood markers apob and things of that to blood markers apob and things of that sort but then the big one is blood sort but then the big one is blood sort but then the big one is blood pressure and so it's it's interesting pressure and so it's it's interesting pressure and so it's it's interesting because we don't think about blood because we don't think about blood because we don't think about blood pressure that much anymore um as a as pressure that much anymore um as a as pressure that much anymore um as a as the kind of people interested in health the kind of people interested in health the kind of people interested in health optimization and health but blood optimization and health but blood optimization and health but blood pressure is so vital to control so it's pressure is so vital to control so it's pressure is so vital to control so it's wonderful to hear that deliberate cold wonderful to hear that deliberate cold wonderful to hear that deliberate cold exposure is one way to control blood exposure is one way to control blood exposure is one way to control blood pressure I'm guessing in concert with pressure I'm guessing in concert with pressure I'm guessing in concert with other forms of exercise yeah um other forms of exercise yeah um other forms of exercise yeah um let's talk about Brown fat and um if you let's talk about Brown fat and um if you let's talk about Brown fat and um if you if you're willing I'd love to drill into if you're willing I'd love to drill into if you're willing I'd love to drill into Brown fat at a at a deep level um again Brown fat at a at a deep level um again Brown fat at a at a deep level um again my understanding of this is is far more my understanding of this is is far more my understanding of this is is far more Elementary than yours obviously you're Elementary than yours obviously you're Elementary than yours obviously you're the expert my understanding about Brown the expert my understanding about Brown the expert my understanding about Brown fat is that it's located in specific fat is that it's located in specific fat is that it's located in specific areas of our body uh maybe more areas of our body uh maybe more areas of our body uh maybe more widespread than when I learned in school widespread than when I learned in school widespread than when I learned in school I thought it was I was taught it was I thought it was I was taught it was I thought it was I was taught it was just at the clavicles in the back of the just at the clavicles in the back of the just at the clavicles in the back of the neck and upper back but who knows I neck and upper back but who knows I neck and upper back but who knows I learned that there's more more of it learned that there's more more of it learned that there's more more of it when we're children maybe more when we're children maybe more when we're children maybe more distributed throughout our body and that

39:00distributed throughout our body and that distributed throughout our body and that it's rich in mitochondria but what is so it's rich in mitochondria but what is so it's rich in mitochondria but what is so special about the brown fat like if we special about the brown fat like if we special about the brown fat like if we could just go into the biology of brown could just go into the biology of brown could just go into the biology of brown fat a little bit what does it look like fat a little bit what does it look like fat a little bit what does it look like uh you've measured it in human subjects uh you've measured it in human subjects uh you've measured it in human subjects where is it distributed really can it where is it distributed really can it where is it distributed really can it expand its distribution can we activate expand its distribution can we activate expand its distribution can we activate and expand the amount of brown fat as and expand the amount of brown fat as and expand the amount of brown fat as adults and um for those of you that are adults and um for those of you that are adults and um for those of you that are cringing already thinking we're talking cringing already thinking we're talking cringing already thinking we're talking about getting fatter it's quite the about getting fatter it's quite the about getting fatter it's quite the opposite we're talking about not opposite we're talking about not opposite we're talking about not subcutaneous fat but fat located around subcutaneous fat but fat located around subcutaneous fat but fat located around the the organs but please educate me um the the organs but please educate me um the the organs but please educate me um tell me where I'm wrong and um expand my tell me where I'm wrong and um expand my tell me where I'm wrong and um expand my knowledge on Brown fat okay yeah you are knowledge on Brown fat okay yeah you are knowledge on Brown fat okay yeah you are not wrong but um it's definit it's true not wrong but um it's definit it's true not wrong but um it's definit it's true that there are more locations of the that there are more locations of the that there are more locations of the brown fat than we previously thought um brown fat than we previously thought um brown fat than we previously thought um there's this very nice study from 2017 there's this very nice study from 2017 there's this very nice study from 2017 by Lightner L where they had made these by Lightner L where they had made these by Lightner L where they had made these PES uh overlay PES uh overlay PES uh overlay of um their subjects but they can see

40:00of um their subjects but they can see of um their subjects but they can see where in the body do we have brown fat where in the body do we have brown fat where in the body do we have brown fat and where can we grow more Brown fat um and where can we grow more Brown fat um and where can we grow more Brown fat um so to say um so the brown fat is can is so to say um so the brown fat is can is so to say um so the brown fat is can is very plastic so it means that it can it very plastic so it means that it can it very plastic so it means that it can it can grow and it can decrease and this is can grow and it can decrease and this is can grow and it can decrease and this is proven in in studies where we have seen proven in in studies where we have seen proven in in studies where we have seen um um people with the f cryosa is like a um um people with the f cryosa is like a um um people with the f cryosa is like a very specific cancer type where people very specific cancer type where people very specific cancer type where people where from the 70s where we can see that where from the 70s where we can see that where from the 70s where we can see that if they have this specific kind of if they have this specific kind of if they have this specific kind of cancer type um they have a t they have cancer type um they have a t they have cancer type um they have a t they have this tumor on the uh adrenal gland so this tumor on the uh adrenal gland so this tumor on the uh adrenal gland so they have like a huge increase in no they have like a huge increase in no they have like a huge increase in no adrenaline and because of that they have adrenaline and because of that they have adrenaline and because of that they have this continuous activation of the brown this continuous activation of the brown this continuous activation of the brown fat and they have grown a lot of brown fat and they have grown a lot of brown fat and they have grown a lot of brown fat in whole body abdomen or where it's fat in whole body abdomen or where it's fat in whole body abdomen or where it's located in these six different places located in these six different places located in these six different places but it is like very much compared to but it is like very much compared to but it is like very much compared to like normal people um and what they then like normal people um and what they then like normal people um and what they then see uh what we learned from this study see uh what we learned from this study see uh what we learned from this study is that brown fat can apparently grow if

41:00is that brown fat can apparently grow if is that brown fat can apparently grow if you have um an increase in nor you have um an increase in nor you have um an increase in nor adrenaline in the body it's not like you adrenaline in the body it's not like you adrenaline in the body it's not like you want that because when that happens you want that because when that happens you want that because when that happens you have a high blood pressure you don't have a high blood pressure you don't have a high blood pressure you don't want it chronically right you you just want it chronically right you you just want it chronically right you you just want it on like a short amount of time want it on like a short amount of time want it on like a short amount of time and then it can grow for a bit but you and then it can grow for a bit but you and then it can grow for a bit but you don't want it chronically of course not don't want it chronically of course not don't want it chronically of course not but because it it activates also your but because it it activates also your but because it it activates also your sympathetic nervous SYM so they have sympathetic nervous SYM so they have sympathetic nervous SYM so they have also showed they had high blood pressure also showed they had high blood pressure also showed they had high blood pressure they had H they lost a lot of weight of they had H they lost a lot of weight of they had H they lost a lot of weight of course because this is activating your course because this is activating your course because this is activating your metabolism so they they found luckily metabolism so they they found luckily metabolism so they they found luckily that when they removed this benign tumor that when they removed this benign tumor that when they removed this benign tumor uh that uh the brown fat um decreases uh that uh the brown fat um decreases uh that uh the brown fat um decreases again to normal size and they gain again to normal size and they gain again to normal size and they gain weight again and they had normal blood weight again and they had normal blood weight again and they had normal blood pressure so the story ends well but it's pressure so the story ends well but it's pressure so the story ends well but it's kind of like proof of concept of that kind of like proof of concept of that kind of like proof of concept of that brown fat can actually grow so it's brown fat can actually grow so it's brown fat can actually grow so it's plastic in it in its way of like it can plastic in it in its way of like it can plastic in it in its way of like it can it can grow and it can decrease again so it can grow and it can decrease again so it can grow and it can decrease again so that's very good good studies to to see that's very good good studies to to see that's very good good studies to to see what it what the body is capable of but what it what the body is capable of but what it what the body is capable of but we don't of course want all that brown

42:00we don't of course want all that brown we don't of course want all that brown fat we just want it to be um we just fat we just want it to be um we just fat we just want it to be um we just want to keep it actually and and keep it want to keep it actually and and keep it want to keep it actually and and keep it activated because what we see in studies activated because what we see in studies activated because what we see in studies is also that after the age of 40 um is also that after the age of 40 um is also that after the age of 40 um people um Studies have shown that there people um Studies have shown that there people um Studies have shown that there is an association with having less brown is an association with having less brown is an association with having less brown fat but increased obesity so of course fat but increased obesity so of course fat but increased obesity so of course we we don't know yet whether uh Brown we we don't know yet whether uh Brown we we don't know yet whether uh Brown fat decreases with a and therefore we fat decreases with a and therefore we fat decreases with a and therefore we get obese or we get obese and therefore get obese or we get obese and therefore get obese or we get obese and therefore we have less brown fat but as brown fat we have less brown fat but as brown fat we have less brown fat but as brown fat is an insulin sensitive organ in our is an insulin sensitive organ in our is an insulin sensitive organ in our body and we get obese H just like the body and we get obese H just like the body and we get obese H just like the muscles get less sensitive um insulin muscles get less sensitive um insulin muscles get less sensitive um insulin sensitive the brown fat does as well and sensitive the brown fat does as well and sensitive the brown fat does as well and therefore it maybe decreases it could be therefore it maybe decreases it could be therefore it maybe decreases it could be a a a theory that I think could be one of the theory that I think could be one of the theory that I think could be one of the reasons why we we don't see that much reasons why we we don't see that much reasons why we we don't see that much Brown fed in in elderly uh people some Brown fed in in elderly uh people some Brown fed in in elderly uh people some have a lot especially people working have a lot especially people working have a lot especially people working outside that there are study sh this who outside that there are study sh this who outside that there are study sh this who people who um work outside do physical

43:00people who um work outside do physical people who um work outside do physical work outside farmers and um interesting work outside farmers and um interesting work outside farmers and um interesting yeah yeah Expos themselves to it so yeah yeah Expos themselves to it so yeah yeah Expos themselves to it so they'll just keep it in that way it's um they'll just keep it in that way it's um they'll just keep it in that way it's um and I suppose we should um clarify for and I suppose we should um clarify for and I suppose we should um clarify for people in case they don't know that people in case they don't know that people in case they don't know that insulin sensitivity is a very good thing insulin sensitivity is a very good thing insulin sensitivity is a very good thing you want that you want yourselves to be you want that you want yourselves to be you want that you want yourselves to be sensitive to insulin um insulin sensitive to insulin um insulin sensitive to insulin um insulin insensitivity is type two diabetes um insensitivity is type two diabetes um insensitivity is type two diabetes um and is associated with obesity um so and is associated with obesity um so and is associated with obesity um so just uh point of clarification there uh just uh point of clarification there uh just uh point of clarification there uh yeah it's interesting to me I I I yeah it's interesting to me I I I yeah it's interesting to me I I I usually work out at home but I I go to a usually work out at home but I I go to a usually work out at home but I I go to a gym once or twice a week if I can gym once or twice a week if I can gym once or twice a week if I can because it's good if I see uh the because it's good if I see uh the because it's good if I see uh the outside world um and there are a few outside world um and there are a few outside world um and there are a few individuals at the the gym who are individuals at the the gym who are individuals at the the gym who are they're not particularly large or they're not particularly large or they're not particularly large or muscular um but they are muscular um but they are muscular um but they are incredibly um lean and their posture is incredibly um lean and their posture is incredibly um lean and their posture is great presumably from the muscul great presumably from the muscul great presumably from the muscul skeletal work um and they they're in skeletal work um and they they're in skeletal work um and they they're in their 70s and 80s I mean it's remarkable

44:00their 70s and 80s I mean it's remarkable their 70s and 80s I mean it's remarkable right and um and I know all the telltale right and um and I know all the telltale right and um and I know all the telltale signs of hormone augmentation I'm very signs of hormone augmentation I'm very signs of hormone augmentation I'm very good at spotting that there are a few good at spotting that there are a few good at spotting that there are a few telltale signs I've talked about this on telltale signs I've talked about this on telltale signs I've talked about this on other podcast and they're not that's not other podcast and they're not that's not other podcast and they're not that's not why they're they're they're um they're why they're they're they're um they're why they're they're they're um they're fit they're they they're clearly of that fit they're they they're clearly of that fit they're they they're clearly of that look and you see this outside the gym look and you see this outside the gym look and you see this outside the gym too of course for people that look like too of course for people that look like too of course for people that look like they've done a lot of physical labor they've done a lot of physical labor they've done a lot of physical labor their whole life yeah they're just their whole life yeah they're just their whole life yeah they're just moving a lot they they have strong hands moving a lot they they have strong hands moving a lot they they have strong hands and features and they're and they're not and features and they're and they're not and features and they're and they're not necessarily excessively lean but you can necessarily excessively lean but you can necessarily excessively lean but you can tell that they've been using their tell that they've been using their tell that they've been using their muscular skeletal system and I like to muscular skeletal system and I like to muscular skeletal system and I like to talk to these people and ask them like talk to these people and ask them like talk to these people and ask them like not what are you doing now for your not what are you doing now for your not what are you doing now for your workout but what what did you grow up workout but what what did you grow up workout but what what did you grow up doing you know and I would say and doing you know and I would say and doing you know and I would say and obviously I've been run statistics on obviously I've been run statistics on obviously I've been run statistics on this but more than 75% of them respond this but more than 75% of them respond this but more than 75% of them respond that they grew up on a farm or that they that they grew up on a farm or that they that they grew up on a farm or that they did some sort did some sort did some sort of manual labor or were a postman or a of manual labor or were a postman or a of manual labor or were a postman or a postwoman or doing something where they postwoman or doing something where they postwoman or doing something where they moved a lot for their early years and moved a lot for their early years and moved a lot for their early years and throughout middle age and most of them

45:00throughout middle age and most of them throughout middle age and most of them are now in retirement but some of them are now in retirement but some of them are now in retirement but some of them are still working and they all still are still working and they all still are still working and they all still moving a lot so the relationship between moving a lot so the relationship between moving a lot so the relationship between shiver and brown fat makes sense to me shiver and brown fat makes sense to me shiver and brown fat makes sense to me but is it the case that as we're just but is it the case that as we're just but is it the case that as we're just moving around I've heard of neat non um moving around I've heard of neat non um moving around I've heard of neat non um exercise induced thermogenesis so if exercise induced thermogenesis so if exercise induced thermogenesis so if we're just moving around um that we are we're just moving around um that we are we're just moving around um that we are activating Brown fat or do does there activating Brown fat or do does there activating Brown fat or do does there need to be this stressor does there need need to be this stressor does there need need to be this stressor does there need to be shiver and a cold stimulus or a to be shiver and a cold stimulus or a to be shiver and a cold stimulus or a stimulus to activate the brown fat in stimulus to activate the brown fat in stimulus to activate the brown fat in other words um is just staying active other words um is just staying active other words um is just staying active enough or do we need to do some sort of enough or do we need to do some sort of enough or do we need to do some sort of temperature uh shock type thing like temperature uh shock type thing like temperature uh shock type thing like deliberate cold exposure yeah I think deliberate cold exposure yeah I think deliberate cold exposure yeah I think that is really good question because how that is really good question because how that is really good question because how how also why do we have this tissue then how also why do we have this tissue then how also why do we have this tissue then if it's if it has to be extreme then you if it's if it has to be extreme then you if it's if it has to be extreme then you can question what what do we need this can question what what do we need this can question what what do we need this tissue for but it seems that you can tissue for but it seems that you can tissue for but it seems that you can activate the brown fat with just a activate the brown fat with just a activate the brown fat with just a little bit of exposure to to cold so little bit of exposure to to cold so little bit of exposure to to cold so cold is the the most potent stressor cold is the the most potent stressor cold is the the most potent stressor activator of our Brown fat because it's

46:00activator of our Brown fat because it's activator of our Brown fat because it's our temperature regulating organ in our our temperature regulating organ in our our temperature regulating organ in our body so first responder to that so the body so first responder to that so the body so first responder to that so the muscles will be a little bit too late uh muscles will be a little bit too late uh muscles will be a little bit too late uh and therefore we have maybe these two and therefore we have maybe these two and therefore we have maybe these two kind of tissues so actually just kind of tissues so actually just kind of tissues so actually just exposing yourself or a hand actually exposing yourself or a hand actually exposing yourself or a hand actually just to cold water so Studies have shown just to cold water so Studies have shown just to cold water so Studies have shown um that if you just put your hand in um that if you just put your hand in um that if you just put your hand in cold water not that you're going to cold water not that you're going to cold water not that you're going to going to do that all day or or every day going to do that all day or or every day going to do that all day or or every day or anything it's not it's it's not or anything it's not it's it's not or anything it's not it's it's not something you have to do but it's it something you have to do but it's it something you have to do but it's it just shows that you can activate your just shows that you can activate your just shows that you can activate your brown fat just by getting a temperature brown fat just by getting a temperature brown fat just by getting a temperature change on your skin so you can go change on your skin so you can go change on your skin so you can go outside and t-shirt that's why also we outside and t-shirt that's why also we outside and t-shirt that's why also we were just talking about well people who were just talking about well people who were just talking about well people who works outside or move a lot or get out works outside or move a lot or get out works outside or move a lot or get out in and out of it like changing the in and out of it like changing the in and out of it like changing the temperature of their body all the time temperature of their body all the time temperature of their body all the time they will have more Brown fat and uh they will have more Brown fat and uh they will have more Brown fat and uh activating that is going to keep your activating that is going to keep your activating that is going to keep your metabolism higher and your insulin metabolism higher and your insulin metabolism higher and your insulin sensitivity a study have also shown this sensitivity a study have also shown this sensitivity a study have also shown this so the brown fat can be activated as so the brown fat can be activated as so the brown fat can be activated as soon as you just change your temperature soon as you just change your temperature soon as you just change your temperature in the skin so going outside in a in the skin so going outside in a in the skin so going outside in a t-shirt wearing cooling vest also

47:00t-shirt wearing cooling vest also t-shirt wearing cooling vest also Studies have shown this for 10 days it's Studies have shown this for 10 days it's Studies have shown this for 10 days it's going to also grow your uh your brown going to also grow your uh your brown going to also grow your uh your brown fat so you can get more Brown fat if you fat so you can get more Brown fat if you fat so you can get more Brown fat if you expose yourself to the cold you don't expose yourself to the cold you don't expose yourself to the cold you don't have to start in a cold H shower you have to start in a cold H shower you have to start in a cold H shower you don't have to start in a cold uh plunge don't have to start in a cold uh plunge don't have to start in a cold uh plunge if you're not really ready for that yet if you're not really ready for that yet if you're not really ready for that yet but just exposing yourself to the cold but just exposing yourself to the cold but just exposing yourself to the cold wind has also shown to activate your wind has also shown to activate your wind has also shown to activate your brown fat or if you don't want to be brown fat or if you don't want to be brown fat or if you don't want to be like in this uh awake state um then you like in this uh awake state um then you like in this uh awake state um then you can also just sleep in the cold and you can also just sleep in the cold and you can also just sleep in the cold and you won't notice it that much maybe but won't notice it that much maybe but won't notice it that much maybe but Studies have shown that if you sleep in Studies have shown that if you sleep in Studies have shown that if you sleep in 19 degrees Celsius um then you will 19 degrees Celsius um then you will 19 degrees Celsius um then you will activate your brown fat and you will activate your brown fat and you will activate your brown fat and you will grow your brown fat so you have more of grow your brown fat so you have more of grow your brown fat so you have more of it so this very nice studies um from it so this very nice studies um from it so this very nice studies um from Hansen it out from Hansen it out from Hansen it out from 2017 showed that a group of subjects who 2017 showed that a group of subjects who 2017 showed that a group of subjects who slept in a room at 24° and then they slept in a room at 24° and then they slept in a room at 24° and then they made this pety scan scannings to see how made this pety scan scannings to see how made this pety scan scannings to see how much Brown fat do they have from the much Brown fat do they have from the much Brown fat do they have from the beginning so what we call Baseline then

48:00beginning so what we call Baseline then beginning so what we call Baseline then they measured again after um a month of they measured again after um a month of they measured again after um a month of sleeping in 19 degrees and they saw I sleeping in 19 degrees and they saw I sleeping in 19 degrees and they saw I think it's remarkable just one month at think it's remarkable just one month at think it's remarkable just one month at 19 degrees sleeping there they had a 19 degrees sleeping there they had a 19 degrees sleeping there they had a duet on and they were still had to close duet on and they were still had to close duet on and they were still had to close on when they're sleeping so they're on when they're sleeping so they're on when they're sleeping so they're under a cover under a duet under under a under a cover under a duet under under a under a cover under a duet under under a duet yeah yeah the subjects were duet yeah yeah the subjects were duet yeah yeah the subjects were sleeping at 19 degre from one month had sleeping at 19 degre from one month had sleeping at 19 degre from one month had increased his insulin sensitivity the increased his insulin sensitivity the increased his insulin sensitivity the next month they stepped at 24° they sh next month they stepped at 24° they sh next month they stepped at 24° they sh this again and then they had decreased this again and then they had decreased this again and then they had decreased actually a little bit and then they actually a little bit and then they actually a little bit and then they slept at the 27° so quite warm room slept at the 27° so quite warm room slept at the 27° so quite warm room actually for for the fourth month um and actually for for the fourth month um and actually for for the fourth month um and they saw even less activation of the they saw even less activation of the they saw even less activation of the brown fat and also insulin sensitivity brown fat and also insulin sensitivity brown fat and also insulin sensitivity so it seems that you can expose yourself so it seems that you can expose yourself so it seems that you can expose yourself and pretty rapidly the brown fat will and pretty rapidly the brown fat will and pretty rapidly the brown fat will respond to this because it's so respond to this because it's so respond to this because it's so sensitive to nor adrenaline right so if sensitive to nor adrenaline right so if sensitive to nor adrenaline right so if you keep exposing yourself to a little you keep exposing yourself to a little you keep exposing yourself to a little bit of cold you also get a a little bit bit of cold you also get a a little bit bit of cold you also get a a little bit adapted to it but that's because the adapted to it but that's because the adapted to it but that's because the brown fat um has grown these more

49:00brown fat um has grown these more brown fat um has grown these more mitochondria in the cells so these small mitochondria in the cells so these small mitochondria in the cells so these small energy Fabrics that's going to activate energy Fabrics that's going to activate energy Fabrics that's going to activate the cells and that's going to take up the cells and that's going to take up the cells and that's going to take up glucose and fat from the fatty acids glucose and fat from the fatty acids glucose and fat from the fatty acids from the bloodstream to keep uh the from the bloodstream to keep uh the from the bloodstream to keep uh the thermogenesis up and that's going to thermogenesis up and that's going to thermogenesis up and that's going to clear up some sugar and it's going to clear up some sugar and it's going to clear up some sugar and it's going to clear so in the in the bloodstream and clear so in the in the bloodstream and clear so in the in the bloodstream and some some fat as well so the brown fat some some fat as well so the brown fat some some fat as well so the brown fat can in that way decrease uh our can in that way decrease uh our can in that way decrease uh our unhealthy fat which is the white fat unhealthy fat which is the white fat unhealthy fat which is the white fat um and the white fat is what we don't um and the white fat is what we don't um and the white fat is what we don't want too much of but we still need some want too much of but we still need some want too much of but we still need some of course um and it's our energy storage of course um and it's our energy storage of course um and it's our energy storage so it's very important that it's there so it's very important that it's there so it's very important that it's there we just don't need a lot of it so on our we just don't need a lot of it so on our we just don't need a lot of it so on our thighs and also around our inner organs thighs and also around our inner organs thighs and also around our inner organs that's where it's it's located so if we that's where it's it's located so if we that's where it's it's located so if we can have activation of the brown fat can have activation of the brown fat can have activation of the brown fat just by going out in the cold and just just by going out in the cold and just just by going out in the cold and just by sleeping in a cold room or if you are by sleeping in a cold room or if you are by sleeping in a cold room or if you are have courage for it you can go out and have courage for it you can go out and have courage for it you can go out and expose yourself in a cold lunch um cold expose yourself in a cold lunch um cold expose yourself in a cold lunch um cold showers is also going to do trick so you showers is also going to do trick so you showers is also going to do trick so you can do different variations of this just

50:00can do different variations of this just can do different variations of this just exposing yourself to various exposing yourself to various exposing yourself to various temperatures is going to activate the temperatures is going to activate the temperatures is going to activate the brown fat because it was involved to brown fat because it was involved to brown fat because it was involved to keep us in a perfect homeostatic balance keep us in a perfect homeostatic balance keep us in a perfect homeostatic balance regarding temperature so to Keep Us regarding temperature so to Keep Us regarding temperature so to Keep Us Alive incredible uh I want to just get a Alive incredible uh I want to just get a Alive incredible uh I want to just get a clarification around this 19 degrees clarification around this 19 degrees clarification around this 19 degrees Celsius um room that they're sleeping in Celsius um room that they're sleeping in Celsius um room that they're sleeping in so they're under a comforter a duvet and so they're under a comforter a duvet and so they're under a comforter a duvet and um and you mentioned they had clothes on um and you mentioned they had clothes on um and you mentioned they had clothes on uh the room is 19° C uh the room is 19° C uh the room is 19° C but the temperature underneath their but the temperature underneath their but the temperature underneath their blanket might not be 19° C so presumably blanket might not be 19° C so presumably blanket might not be 19° C so presumably it's the cold on their face that's it's the cold on their face that's it's the cold on their face that's activating uh the the increase in uh activating uh the the increase in uh activating uh the the increase in uh Brown fat that was observed is that is Brown fat that was observed is that is Brown fat that was observed is that is that a reasonable uh expectation I I that a reasonable uh expectation I I that a reasonable uh expectation I I think so yeah because it's you have so think so yeah because it's you have so think so yeah because it's you have so many co-receptors in your face so it's many co-receptors in your face so it's many co-receptors in your face so it's actually it's enough and it I think actually it's enough and it I think actually it's enough and it I think corresponds very well with the studies corresponds very well with the studies corresponds very well with the studies showing that you can activate the brown showing that you can activate the brown showing that you can activate the brown fat just by putting a hand into a bucket fat just by putting a hand into a bucket fat just by putting a hand into a bucket of cold water H and I did this of cold water H and I did this of cold water H and I did this experiment myself in in my studies just experiment myself in in my studies just experiment myself in in my studies just to see how well did they H respond to

51:00to see how well did they H respond to to see how well did they H respond to cold water so it was a 4° celsious cold cold water so it was a 4° celsious cold cold water so it was a 4° celsious cold water for four minutes and then I just water for four minutes and then I just water for four minutes and then I just measured blood pressure and heart rate measured blood pressure and heart rate measured blood pressure and heart rate to see do they have like an activation to see do they have like an activation to see do they have like an activation of this I actually also measured the of this I actually also measured the of this I actually also measured the brown fat during this uh cold exposure brown fat during this uh cold exposure brown fat during this uh cold exposure for four minutes with an infrared for four minutes with an infrared for four minutes with an infrared thermography camera to see can I see thermography camera to see can I see thermography camera to see can I see that the brown fat is activated and just that the brown fat is activated and just that the brown fat is activated and just just to go back to the location of the just to go back to the location of the just to go back to the location of the BR fat so usually you cannot really see BR fat so usually you cannot really see BR fat so usually you cannot really see activation of your brown fat because activation of your brown fat because activation of your brown fat because it's located centrally in your around it's located centrally in your around it's located centrally in your around your central nervous system um and and your central nervous system um and and your central nervous system um and and the biggest Depo as you mentioned before the biggest Depo as you mentioned before the biggest Depo as you mentioned before is up here under the the cicular bones is up here under the the cicular bones is up here under the the cicular bones so um and very close to the skin surface so um and very close to the skin surface so um and very close to the skin surface and because it's so close to the skin and because it's so close to the skin and because it's so close to the skin surface I could measure it with this surface I could measure it with this surface I could measure it with this very expensive camera you and it's not very expensive camera you and it's not very expensive camera you and it's not very feasible for people to go home and very feasible for people to go home and very feasible for people to go home and do this don't because it takes a lot of do this don't because it takes a lot of do this don't because it takes a lot of practice I can tell um but we measured

52:00practice I can tell um but we measured practice I can tell um but we measured the brown fat with this um and and I the brown fat with this um and and I the brown fat with this um and and I could see that after a few minutes that could see that after a few minutes that could see that after a few minutes that the activation was there an increase in the activation was there an increase in the activation was there an increase in temperature uh arose from that um temperature uh arose from that um temperature uh arose from that um activation just four minutes so it's activation just four minutes so it's activation just four minutes so it's very rapid and I'm also measured in my very rapid and I'm also measured in my very rapid and I'm also measured in my study how deep was the brown fat under study how deep was the brown fat under study how deep was the brown fat under your skin so it's very close to the your skin so it's very close to the your skin so it's very close to the surface which also shows that it it surface which also shows that it it surface which also shows that it it needs to be there to to heat you up and needs to be there to to heat you up and needs to be there to to heat you up and heat heat your inner organs well I'm heat heat your inner organs well I'm heat heat your inner organs well I'm delighted Ed to hear all of this and delighted Ed to hear all of this and delighted Ed to hear all of this and I'll I'll tell you why one is by way of I'll I'll tell you why one is by way of I'll I'll tell you why one is by way of anecdote I mentioned a little bit anecdote I mentioned a little bit anecdote I mentioned a little bit earlier that as an undergraduate I earlier that as an undergraduate I earlier that as an undergraduate I worked in a lab that studied worked in a lab that studied worked in a lab that studied thermogenesis and we were doing that in thermogenesis and we were doing that in thermogenesis and we were doing that in animals but we had this room that was animals but we had this room that was animals but we had this room that was very cold the whole room was cold uh the very cold the whole room was cold uh the very cold the whole room was cold uh the guy who I worked for at the time and Nam guy who I worked for at the time and Nam guy who I worked for at the time and Nam Harry Carlile is a very accomplished Harry Carlile is a very accomplished Harry Carlile is a very accomplished physiologist he came from this lineage I physiologist he came from this lineage I physiologist he came from this lineage I don't know if this literature is still don't know if this literature is still don't know if this literature is still um discussed much but it's a beautiful um discussed much but it's a beautiful um discussed much but it's a beautiful literature um from Rothwell and stock literature um from Rothwell and stock literature um from Rothwell and stock they were the ones who discovered um they were the ones who discovered um they were the ones who discovered um non-exercise induced thermogenesis the non-exercise induced thermogenesis the non-exercise induced thermogenesis the fact that people bounce who bounce their fact that people bounce who bounce their fact that people bounce who bounce their legs a lot and move around a lot and legs a lot and move around a lot and legs a lot and move around a lot and have a lot of kind of um stochastic

53:00have a lot of kind of um stochastic have a lot of kind of um stochastic movement um burn up to 18 movement um burn up to 18 movement um burn up to 18 1,800 calories more per day than people 1,800 calories more per day than people 1,800 calories more per day than people who sit more still fascinating who sit more still fascinating who sit more still fascinating incredible just incredible um I don't incredible just incredible um I don't incredible just incredible um I don't think that work deser uh gets as much think that work deser uh gets as much think that work deser uh gets as much attention as it deserves published in attention as it deserves published in attention as it deserves published in journals like nature so very uh fine journals like nature so very uh fine journals like nature so very uh fine journals but in any event uh one of the journals but in any event uh one of the journals but in any event uh one of the things that I noticed when I started things that I noticed when I started things that I noticed when I started working in that laboratory was that I working in that laboratory was that I working in that laboratory was that I was cold because the room was cold and was cold because the room was cold and was cold because the room was cold and um Dr Carlile Harry um said well the key um Dr Carlile Harry um said well the key um Dr Carlile Harry um said well the key is to wear a t-shirt in here for about is to wear a t-shirt in here for about is to wear a t-shirt in here for about two three days and then you will cold two three days and then you will cold two three days and then you will cold adapt I thought well wouldn't I want to adapt I thought well wouldn't I want to adapt I thought well wouldn't I want to put on a hoodie and get warm in there so put on a hoodie and get warm in there so put on a hoodie and get warm in there so I was comfortable and he said no I was comfortable and he said no I was comfortable and he said no actually what you want to do is get actually what you want to do is get actually what you want to do is get yourself uncomfortably cold activate yourself uncomfortably cold activate yourself uncomfortably cold activate your brown fat and indeed when I did your brown fat and indeed when I did your brown fat and indeed when I did that I think it was just two days of that I think it was just two days of that I think it was just two days of being in that cold environment then I being in that cold environment then I being in that cold environment then I could come back on the third day and be could come back on the third day and be could come back on the third day and be perfectly comfortable yeah because the perfectly comfortable yeah because the perfectly comfortable yeah because the brown fat had expanded um or or added brown fat had expanded um or or added brown fat had expanded um or or added mitochondria or both and I was perfectly

54:00mitochondria or both and I was perfectly mitochondria or both and I was perfectly comfortable in that environment I also comfortable in that environment I also comfortable in that environment I also got very very lean in those um in those got very very lean in those um in those got very very lean in those um in those days and weeks now i' I've never been days and weeks now i' I've never been days and weeks now i' I've never been somebody who's very lean nor am I somebody who's very lean nor am I somebody who's very lean nor am I somebody who carries a lot of excess somebody who carries a lot of excess somebody who carries a lot of excess adapost tisue I'm kind of somewhere in adapost tisue I'm kind of somewhere in adapost tisue I'm kind of somewhere in the middle I'm sure I could adjust that the middle I'm sure I could adjust that the middle I'm sure I could adjust that with feeding if I wanted to but it was with feeding if I wanted to but it was with feeding if I wanted to but it was it was striking uh what a powerful it was striking uh what a powerful it was striking uh what a powerful effect it had on my entire system of effect it had on my entire system of effect it had on my entire system of thermal regulation and one of the things thermal regulation and one of the things thermal regulation and one of the things that I uh also delighted in when sell that I uh also delighted in when sell that I uh also delighted in when sell reports um medicine published your study reports um medicine published your study reports um medicine published your study is they had an accompanying um press is they had an accompanying um press is they had an accompanying um press release that went out to to those of us release that went out to to those of us release that went out to to those of us that receive press releases and it that receive press releases and it that receive press releases and it described a um a saying in Scandinavia described a um a saying in Scandinavia described a um a saying in Scandinavia which is um essentially I'm not going to which is um essentially I'm not going to which is um essentially I'm not going to attempt to uh speak uh Danish even attempt to uh speak uh Danish even attempt to uh speak uh Danish even though I have much of my family is in though I have much of my family is in though I have much of my family is in Denmark believe it or not from Denmark Denmark believe it or not from Denmark Denmark believe it or not from Denmark um we have a lot of Danes in my family um we have a lot of Danes in my family um we have a lot of Danes in my family um I won't embarrass myself by trying to um I won't embarrass myself by trying to um I won't embarrass myself by trying to speak Danish as I did before the the uh speak Danish as I did before the the uh speak Danish as I did before the the uh microphones were rolling but um that microphones were rolling but um that microphones were rolling but um that there's a saying there's a saying there's a saying that I think essentially translates to that I think essentially translates to

55:00that I think essentially translates to in the fall when when you're approaching in the fall when when you're approaching in the fall when when you're approaching winter you want to actually wear fewer winter you want to actually wear fewer winter you want to actually wear fewer layers not bundle up when you go outside layers not bundle up when you go outside layers not bundle up when you go outside so that you can prepare yourself for the so that you can prepare yourself for the so that you can prepare yourself for the cold of winter and be able to heat cold of winter and be able to heat cold of winter and be able to heat yourself up using your brown fat and yourself up using your brown fat and yourself up using your brown fat and that in the spring as the temperatures that in the spring as the temperatures that in the spring as the temperatures are are are warming rather than removing layers you warming rather than removing layers you warming rather than removing layers you want to wear more layers in order to be want to wear more layers in order to be want to wear more layers in order to be a little bit uncomfortably warm so that a little bit uncomfortably warm so that a little bit uncomfortably warm so that In the Heat of the summer you're better In the Heat of the summer you're better In the Heat of the summer you're better at Cooling in your body do I have that at Cooling in your body do I have that at Cooling in your body do I have that right and maybe do you know the saying right and maybe do you know the saying right and maybe do you know the saying and would you be willing to share it and would you be willing to share it and would you be willing to share it only the swedes and um uh and Danes will only the swedes and um uh and Danes will only the swedes and um uh and Danes will be able to understand um maybe the be able to understand um maybe the be able to understand um maybe the Norwegians too if you don't know it Norwegians too if you don't know it Norwegians too if you don't know it that's okay yeah so I know that I know that's okay yeah so I know that I know that's okay yeah so I know that I know the the concept of it because we say it the the concept of it because we say it the the concept of it because we say it you should you should wear less before you should you should wear less before you should you should wear less before winter and uh and more before summer so winter and uh and more before summer so winter and uh and more before summer so well there it is in English so it well there it is in English so it well there it is in English so it doesn't have to be esoteric but okay doesn't have to be esoteric but okay doesn't have to be esoteric but okay yeah and and you're completely right and yeah and and you're completely right and yeah and and you're completely right and I think this is the this is just I think this is the this is just I think this is the this is just something that we know in the something that we know in the something that we know in the Scandinavian countries I think that we Scandinavian countries I think that we Scandinavian countries I think that we we we intuitively know this but if we

56:00we we intuitively know this but if we we we intuitively know this but if we just go back a little bit in history I just go back a little bit in history I just go back a little bit in history I think that um around the think that um around the think that um around the 1950s the the Russian government went 1950s the the Russian government went 1950s the the Russian government went out and said well we should do something out and said well we should do something out and said well we should do something about the about the about the tuberculosis pandemic or epidemic there tuberculosis pandemic or epidemic there tuberculosis pandemic or epidemic there was at this time so they they wanted to was at this time so they they wanted to was at this time so they they wanted to have the the people um be more resilient have the the people um be more resilient have the the people um be more resilient to the cold and also increase our immune to the cold and also increase our immune to the cold and also increase our immune system so in Scandinavia and actually system so in Scandinavia and actually system so in Scandinavia and actually also in Russia we put our babies outside also in Russia we put our babies outside also in Russia we put our babies outside to sleep in the prom and that is like to to sleep in the prom and that is like to to sleep in the prom and that is like to H also to to get H also to to get H also to to get [Music] more chasing Dreams by the more chasing Dreams by the Sea Echoes of but Sea Echoes of but Sea Echoes of but this in the lights just you and

57:00this in the lights just you and this in the lights just you and me for grass and shades of me for grass and shades of me for grass and shades of gold stories that we've never gold stories that we've never gold stories that we've never told memories that never grow in this told memories that never grow in this told memories that never grow in this heart there heart there heart there always T moves on but we stay here in always T moves on but we stay here in always T moves on but we stay here in the moment crystal clear Echoes of the the moment crystal clear Echoes of the the moment crystal clear Echoes of the Yer and arts we hold them nearing in the light lost in Whispers of nearing in the light lost in Whispers of the night in the silence we take F the night in the silence we take F the night in the silence we take F holding on to our holding on to our holding on to our things walks through streets of things walks through streets of things walks through streets of neon silent Whispers tell neon silent Whispers tell neon silent Whispers tell of in the dark

58:00of in the dark of in the dark secret in the secret in the secret in the I time moves on we stay here in the I time moves on we stay here in the I time moves on we stay here in the moment Crystal Clear Echoes off the moment Crystal Clear Echoes off the moment Crystal Clear Echoes off the Y in arts we hold them near memories in the Life l Whispers of near memories in the Life l Whispers of the night in the silence we take bre the night in the silence we take bre the night in the silence we take bre holding to things right in the Twilight holding to things right in the Twilight holding to things right in the Twilight Shadows play off Whispers Tales of w in Shadows play off Whispers Tales of w in Shadows play off Whispers Tales of w in the hearts we find I sa in the dawn we the hearts we find I sa in the dawn we the hearts we find I sa in the dawn we never stay memories in the stay memories in the lost in whiskers of night in the silence

59:00lost in whiskers of night in the silence lost in whiskers of night in the silence we we we take holding on to what right as a face take holding on to what right as a face take holding on to what right as a face turn into ears through the laughter turn into ears through the laughter turn into ears through the laughter through the tears in the Echo through the tears in the Echo through the tears in the Echo alls in these dreams we Face our fears alls in these dreams we Face our fears alls in these dreams we Face our fears [Music] [Music] as a to the the ANS in these dreams we Face our fears ANS in these dreams we Face our fears [Music] [Music] assistant to the C but also to increase

1:00assistant to the C but also to increase assistant to the C but also to increase our immune system and we still do that our immune system and we still do that our immune system and we still do that in Denmark so we do you really yeah we in Denmark so we do you really yeah we in Denmark so we do you really yeah we do babies are taken out in the cold in do babies are taken out in the cold in do babies are taken out in the cold in the snow in Frosty rain everything my the snow in Frosty rain everything my the snow in Frosty rain everything my two boys have been sleeping out in two boys have been sleeping out in two boys have been sleeping out in winter or at least the F their first winter or at least the F their first winter or at least the F their first many three four five years because it's many three four five years because it's many three four five years because it's like very good for them and they get a like very good for them and they get a like very good for them and they get a better immune system and get resilient better immune system and get resilient better immune system and get resilient to the cold so they will have less colds to the cold so they will have less colds to the cold so they will have less colds and also they run around in a t-shirt and also they run around in a t-shirt and also they run around in a t-shirt when it's super cold because they have when it's super cold because they have when it's super cold because they have activated all their Brown fat I didn't activated all their Brown fat I didn't activated all their Brown fat I didn't understand at that time I must I must understand at that time I must I must understand at that time I must I must say but I kind of like intuitively also say but I kind of like intuitively also say but I kind of like intuitively also knew because we have inherited this uh knew because we have inherited this uh knew because we have inherited this uh way of doing things with our culture so way of doing things with our culture so way of doing things with our culture so and I have heard people coming from the and I have heard people coming from the and I have heard people coming from the US saying Danes are crazy they put their US saying Danes are crazy they put their US saying Danes are crazy they put their babies outside and PRS and leave them babies outside and PRS and leave them babies outside and PRS and leave them there and then they go inside and drink there and then they go inside and drink there and then they go inside and drink coffee on the coffee on the coffee on the cafe well I don't think Danes are crazy cafe well I don't think Danes are crazy cafe well I don't think Danes are crazy I I I I adore the D um they're they're I I I I adore the D um they're they're I I I I adore the D um they're they're amazing uh culture and people I'm so

1:01amazing uh culture and people I'm so amazing uh culture and people I'm so fortunate to have family members uh from fortunate to have family members uh from fortunate to have family members uh from Denmark but I did notice so when when we Denmark but I did notice so when when we Denmark but I did notice so when when we were in Copenhagen and I know um we we were in Copenhagen and I know um we we were in Copenhagen and I know um we we saw you there uh not long ago that was saw you there uh not long ago that was saw you there uh not long ago that was June um the water in the harbor was was June um the water in the harbor was was June um the water in the harbor was was cold for for even though the Pacific is cold for for even though the Pacific is cold for for even though the Pacific is close to here um which is very cold uh close to here um which is very cold uh close to here um which is very cold uh felt pretty cold but I it was summertime felt pretty cold but I it was summertime felt pretty cold but I it was summertime is um so people were in summertime time is um so people were in summertime time is um so people were in summertime time mode right t-shirts and shorts and mode right t-shirts and shorts and mode right t-shirts and shorts and things that that sort but it did strike things that that sort but it did strike things that that sort but it did strike me that people in Copenhagen me that people in Copenhagen me that people in Copenhagen are are dramatically fitter than they are in the dramatically fitter than they are in the dramatically fitter than they are in the United States I mean first of all United States I mean first of all United States I mean first of all everyone's bicycling everywhere yeah um everyone's bicycling everywhere yeah um everyone's bicycling everywhere yeah um not many people wearing sunglasses so not many people wearing sunglasses so not many people wearing sunglasses so trying to extract as much Photon energy trying to extract as much Photon energy trying to extract as much Photon energy from the Sun as possible which I support from the Sun as possible which I support from the Sun as possible which I support uh as everyone knows that's I'm a big uh as everyone knows that's I'm a big uh as everyone knows that's I'm a big fan of getting Sun but also um when we fan of getting Sun but also um when we fan of getting Sun but also um when we did see swimmers um they were swimming did see swimmers um they were swimming did see swimmers um they were swimming in this cold water and like it was

1:02in this cold water and like it was in this cold water and like it was nothing and their the range and age of nothing and their the range and age of nothing and their the range and age of the swimmers was what was remarkable you the swimmers was what was remarkable you the swimmers was what was remarkable you saw the kind of fit triathlete looking saw the kind of fit triathlete looking saw the kind of fit triathlete looking types but also young kids like really types but also young kids like really types but also young kids like really young kids and then people probably in young kids and then people probably in young kids and then people probably in their again their their 70s 80s maybe their again their their 70s 80s maybe their again their their 70s 80s maybe even 90s really uh remarkable uh vastly even 90s really uh remarkable uh vastly even 90s really uh remarkable uh vastly different than what you see if you go to different than what you see if you go to different than what you see if you go to the ocean here in uh Los Angeles or or the ocean here in uh Los Angeles or or the ocean here in uh Los Angeles or or elsewhere so um yeah you Scandinavians elsewhere so um yeah you Scandinavians elsewhere so um yeah you Scandinavians are onto something with this I'd like to are onto something with this I'd like to are onto something with this I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor take a quick break and thank our sponsor take a quick break and thank our sponsor insid tracker inside tracker is a insid tracker inside tracker is a insid tracker inside tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that personalized nutrition platform that personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to analyzes data from your blood and DNA to analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you better understand your body and help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals I've help you reach your health goals I've help you reach your health goals I've long been a believer in getting regular long been a believer in getting regular long been a believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason blood work done for the simple reason blood work done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact that many of the factors that impact that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term Health can your immediate and long-term Health can your immediate and long-term Health can only be assessed with a quality blood only be assessed with a quality blood only be assessed with a quality blood test the problem with a lot of blood and test the problem with a lot of blood and test the problem with a lot of blood and DNA tests out there however is that DNA tests out there however is that DNA tests out there however is that they'll give you information about they'll give you information about they'll give you information about certain lipid markers or hormone markers certain lipid markers or hormone markers certain lipid markers or hormone markers but no information about what to do with but no information about what to do with but no information about what to do with all of that data inside tracker makes it

1:03all of that data inside tracker makes it all of that data inside tracker makes it very easy to look at your levels of very easy to look at your levels of very easy to look at your levels of hormones metabolic factors lipids Etc hormones metabolic factors lipids Etc hormones metabolic factors lipids Etc and then to assess what sorts of and then to assess what sorts of and then to assess what sorts of Behavioral nutritional supplementation Behavioral nutritional supplementation Behavioral nutritional supplementation or perhaps other interventions you might or perhaps other interventions you might or perhaps other interventions you might want to use in order to bring those want to use in order to bring those want to use in order to bring those numbers into the ranges that are optimal numbers into the ranges that are optimal numbers into the ranges that are optimal for your health inside tracker's for your health inside tracker's for your health inside tracker's ultimate plan now includes three new ultimate plan now includes three new ultimate plan now includes three new hormone markers that are critical to hormone markers that are critical to hormone markers that are critical to measure during a woman's reproductive measure during a woman's reproductive measure during a woman's reproductive and menopausal years these are estrad and menopausal years these are estrad and menopausal years these are estrad progesterone and thyroid stimulating progesterone and thyroid stimulating progesterone and thyroid stimulating hormone if you to try insid tracker you hormone if you to try insid tracker you hormone if you to try insid tracker you can go to insid tracker.com huberman to can go to insid tracker.com huberman to can go to insid tracker.com huberman to get 20% off any of insid tracker's plans get 20% off any of insid tracker's plans get 20% off any of insid tracker's plans again that's insid tracker.com huberman again that's insid tracker.com huberman again that's insid tracker.com huberman to get 20% off I'd like to talk about to get 20% off I'd like to talk about to get 20% off I'd like to talk about your study um if you could give us a your study um if you could give us a your study um if you could give us a little bit of the backdrop about what little bit of the backdrop about what little bit of the backdrop about what motivated that study and then um and motivated that study and then um and motivated that study and then um and then walk us through what you did you then walk us through what you did you then walk us through what you did you know who the subjects were um what you know who the subjects were um what you know who the subjects were um what you had them do what you measured um in as had them do what you measured um in as had them do what you measured um in as much detail as you would like to share much detail as you would like to share much detail as you would like to share because I think it's such an important because I think it's such an important because I think it's such an important you know even I fair to say landmark

1:04you know even I fair to say landmark you know even I fair to say landmark study because it also explored not just study because it also explored not just study because it also explored not just cold but sauna and the the co-use of cold but sauna and the the co-use of cold but sauna and the the co-use of cold and sauna as a way to probe cold and sauna as a way to probe cold and sauna as a way to probe metabolism and brown fat and other metabolism and brown fat and other metabolism and brown fat and other markers as well and as you do this uh markers as well and as you do this uh markers as well and as you do this uh I'm hoping at some point that you might I'm hoping at some point that you might I'm hoping at some point that you might um tell us some of the observations that um tell us some of the observations that um tell us some of the observations that you might have made that interested you you might have made that interested you you might have made that interested you that perhaps were not in the paper that perhaps were not in the paper that perhaps were not in the paper because that's one of the great benefits because that's one of the great benefits because that's one of the great benefits of sitting across from somebody who who of sitting across from somebody who who of sitting across from somebody who who did the work in detail so um yeah if you did the work in detail so um yeah if you did the work in detail so um yeah if you could tell us about your study um and uh could tell us about your study um and uh could tell us about your study um and uh what you did and what you discovered what you did and what you discovered what you did and what you discovered thank you for that question Andrew I I thank you for that question Andrew I I thank you for that question Andrew I I love to like also explain a little bit love to like also explain a little bit love to like also explain a little bit what did we do because when people read what did we do because when people read what did we do because when people read this kind of paper they just see the this kind of paper they just see the this kind of paper they just see the numbers they don't see what what numbers they don't see what what numbers they don't see what what happened before that and human studies happened before that and human studies happened before that and human studies are very different from from my study my are very different from from my study my are very different from from my study my study you can do a knockout of something study you can do a knockout of something study you can do a knockout of something and then everything is like perfectly and then everything is like perfectly and then everything is like perfectly matched and controlled doing human matched and controlled doing human matched and controlled doing human studies is very far different from that studies is very far different from that studies is very far different from that because people are different even in the because people are different even in the because people are different even in the groups so yeah but what we um when I

1:05groups so yeah but what we um when I groups so yeah but what we um when I started this research in 2016 I did not started this research in 2016 I did not started this research in 2016 I did not really know what the brown fat was so I really know what the brown fat was so I really know what the brown fat was so I started reading up on all this and I was started reading up on all this and I was started reading up on all this and I was very interested in preventive medicine very interested in preventive medicine very interested in preventive medicine um also the studies that I did before um also the studies that I did before um also the studies that I did before Brown fat was also like very much in in Brown fat was also like very much in in Brown fat was also like very much in in the preventive side like how can we that the preventive side like how can we that the preventive side like how can we that was about something else but the Sweet was about something else but the Sweet was about something else but the Sweet Tooth and how can we lower Sweet Tooth Tooth and how can we lower Sweet Tooth Tooth and how can we lower Sweet Tooth and stuff like that so but after that I and stuff like that so but after that I and stuff like that so but after that I wanted to to do something new so I wanted to to do something new so I wanted to to do something new so I looked into the brown fat got hired in looked into the brown fat got hired in looked into the brown fat got hired in this fantastic research group where they this fantastic research group where they this fantastic research group where they it's a cell group so they mostly did it's a cell group so they mostly did it's a cell group so they mostly did cell studies and they didn't have anyone cell studies and they didn't have anyone cell studies and they didn't have anyone to do a human study yet um and um but to do a human study yet um and um but to do a human study yet um and um but they really wanted me to to do that so I they really wanted me to to do that so I they really wanted me to to do that so I read upon a lot of research about how read upon a lot of research about how read upon a lot of research about how does the brown fat get activated what does the brown fat get activated what does the brown fat get activated what have been done already and I mentioned have been done already and I mentioned have been done already and I mentioned the paper before with sleeping in the the paper before with sleeping in the the paper before with sleeping in the cold I found that particular paper very cold I found that particular paper very cold I found that particular paper very fascinating and that was also where um

1:06fascinating and that was also where um fascinating and that was also where um at that time I was like okay so cold at that time I was like okay so cold at that time I was like okay so cold exposure as an intervention of sleeping exposure as an intervention of sleeping exposure as an intervention of sleeping in the cold could be a good thing to go in the cold could be a good thing to go in the cold could be a good thing to go out and say well people do this but on out and say well people do this but on out and say well people do this but on the other hand is first of all it was the other hand is first of all it was the other hand is first of all it was already done that was one thing but the already done that was one thing but the already done that was one thing but the other thing was like well I wanted to to other thing was like well I wanted to to other thing was like well I wanted to to see if we can do like some kind of see if we can do like some kind of see if we can do like some kind of activity so we can have people move also activity so we can have people move also activity so we can have people move also or go and do something do something or go and do something do something or go and do something do something together or whatever and and and the together or whatever and and and the together or whatever and and and the code uh made us think about well what code uh made us think about well what code uh made us think about well what about winter swimming and it was kind of about winter swimming and it was kind of about winter swimming and it was kind of like a bit of a joke in the beginning like a bit of a joke in the beginning like a bit of a joke in the beginning it's like winter swimming yeah it's it's like winter swimming yeah it's it's like winter swimming yeah it's going to activate the brown fat right going to activate the brown fat right going to activate the brown fat right but but when we read the literature we but but when we read the literature we but but when we read the literature we couldn't really find anything about couldn't really find anything about couldn't really find anything about activation of the brown fat with cold activation of the brown fat with cold activation of the brown fat with cold water besides hand and a bucket of cold water besides hand and a bucket of cold water besides hand and a bucket of cold water that really that was already there water that really that was already there water that really that was already there so we were just thinking okay so it so we were just thinking okay so it so we were just thinking okay so it should be very potent um activation of should be very potent um activation of should be very potent um activation of the brown fat if it's cold water but the brown fat if it's cold water but the brown fat if it's cold water but very different from cold air so it was very different from cold air so it was very different from cold air so it was kind of also a new thing we were going

1:07kind of also a new thing we were going kind of also a new thing we were going into and uh we knew that we were going into and uh we knew that we were going into and uh we knew that we were going to do like a more of a um proof of to do like a more of a um proof of to do like a more of a um proof of concept study um at the beginning of it concept study um at the beginning of it concept study um at the beginning of it because it was like winter swimmers um because it was like winter swimmers um because it was like winter swimmers um must in theory activate the brown fat must in theory activate the brown fat must in theory activate the brown fat right but we kind of didn't really know right but we kind of didn't really know right but we kind of didn't really know was was this kind of stressor too much was was this kind of stressor too much was was this kind of stressor too much too little or what will happen actually too little or what will happen actually too little or what will happen actually but we had this idea about well we but we had this idea about well we but we had this idea about well we always say that Co water and winter always say that Co water and winter always say that Co water and winter swimming will activate your metabolism swimming will activate your metabolism swimming will activate your metabolism but do but do we know if it do does that but do but do we know if it do does that but do but do we know if it do does that no we don't so um and while this idea no we don't so um and while this idea no we don't so um and while this idea was a little bit fun fun at the was a little bit fun fun at the was a little bit fun fun at the beginning um we kind of accepted it was beginning um we kind of accepted it was beginning um we kind of accepted it was like okay let's just try this out but like okay let's just try this out but like okay let's just try this out but because we didn't have the funding for because we didn't have the funding for because we didn't have the funding for it we was like okay let's do a proof of it we was like okay let's do a proof of it we was like okay let's do a proof of concept study um let's go with a small concept study um let's go with a small concept study um let's go with a small number but enough to see um a difference number but enough to see um a difference number but enough to see um a difference between the groups so the power between the groups so the power between the groups so the power calculation of that study is done on calculation of that study is done on calculation of that study is done on what we know uh from pet scannings of what we know uh from pet scannings of what we know uh from pet scannings of the brown fat so that's the main outcome

1:08the brown fat so that's the main outcome the brown fat so that's the main outcome of that of course so um and we wanted to of that of course so um and we wanted to of that of course so um and we wanted to go a little bit smaller on the numbers go a little bit smaller on the numbers go a little bit smaller on the numbers of of participants because we wanted to of of participants because we wanted to of of participants because we wanted to dig a little bit deeper into the dig a little bit deeper into the dig a little bit deeper into the different mechanisms and also redo some different mechanisms and also redo some different mechanisms and also redo some of the the days so I really wanted to do of the the days so I really wanted to do of the the days so I really wanted to do that to see if I can replicate also the that to see if I can replicate also the that to see if I can replicate also the findings and it's going to take a lot of findings and it's going to take a lot of findings and it's going to take a lot of a lot of funding but it's also going to a lot of funding but it's also going to a lot of funding but it's also going to take a lot of time to do it um so the take a lot of time to do it um so the take a lot of time to do it um so the proof of concept was just going small proof of concept was just going small proof of concept was just going small but looking at different mechanisms we but looking at different mechanisms we but looking at different mechanisms we also took um fat biopsies for example also took um fat biopsies for example also took um fat biopsies for example and looked at the white fat to see if and looked at the white fat to see if and looked at the white fat to see if there was any differences between the there was any differences between the there was any differences between the groups before and after and stuff like groups before and after and stuff like groups before and after and stuff like that so that's kind of like how it that so that's kind of like how it that so that's kind of like how it started and and the first year was like started and and the first year was like started and and the first year was like a field study for me so I was not a a field study for me so I was not a a field study for me so I was not a winter swimmer when I started this it winter swimmer when I started this it winter swimmer when I started this it was just oh really no I wasn't um at all was just oh really no I wasn't um at all was just oh really no I wasn't um at all and I would say I was bit afraid of the and I would say I was bit afraid of the and I would say I was bit afraid of the cold myself um bit of a cold see always cold myself um bit of a cold see always cold myself um bit of a cold see always cold having big socks on and sweaters cold having big socks on and sweaters cold having big socks on and sweaters and stuff like that so I was like I am

1:09and stuff like that so I was like I am and stuff like that so I was like I am so comfortable I'm just like everybody so comfortable I'm just like everybody so comfortable I'm just like everybody else very comfortable I like being else very comfortable I like being else very comfortable I like being completely temperature neutral um but I completely temperature neutral um but I completely temperature neutral um but I started like playing with this thought started like playing with this thought started like playing with this thought like well if this is so healthy in like well if this is so healthy in like well if this is so healthy in theory I should not pack myself up I theory I should not pack myself up I theory I should not pack myself up I should start not doing should start not doing should start not doing that yeah but the first year observation that yeah but the first year observation that yeah but the first year observation of winter swimmers on the jetty they of winter swimmers on the jetty they of winter swimmers on the jetty they kind of joked about it say come on Z you kind of joked about it say come on Z you kind of joked about it say come on Z you need to try this you cannot study this need to try this you cannot study this need to try this you cannot study this unless you have tried it and I was like unless you have tried it and I was like unless you have tried it and I was like haha very funny of course I can do haha very funny of course I can do haha very funny of course I can do that but I couldn't I I read the that but I couldn't I I read the that but I couldn't I I read the literature I understood in theory what literature I understood in theory what literature I understood in theory what happens when you go into cold water but happens when you go into cold water but happens when you go into cold water but I completely understood it when I first I completely understood it when I first I completely understood it when I first tried it the first few times not so tried it the first few times not so tried it the first few times not so funny it felt painful it was just like funny it felt painful it was just like funny it felt painful it was just like running too long uh after a long break running too long uh after a long break running too long uh after a long break and you and your muscles hurt the day and you and your muscles hurt the day and you and your muscles hurt the day after right you you completely regret after right you you completely regret after right you you completely regret that you took that extra mile what about that you took that extra mile what about that you took that extra mile what about when you say uncomfortable you mean when you say uncomfortable you mean when you say uncomfortable you mean uncomfortable when you got in and when

1:10uncomfortable when you got in and when uncomfortable when you got in and when you were in or uncomfortable afterwards you were in or uncomfortable afterwards you were in or uncomfortable afterwards because I find that um on rare occasions because I find that um on rare occasions because I find that um on rare occasions well I should just full disclosure I I well I should just full disclosure I I well I should just full disclosure I I do deliberate cold exposure every do deliberate cold exposure every do deliberate cold exposure every morning for about a minute to two morning for about a minute to two morning for about a minute to two minutes in a cold plunge there are days minutes in a cold plunge there are days minutes in a cold plunge there are days that I miss but when I'm at home I do that I miss but when I'm at home I do that I miss but when I'm at home I do that and when I travel I do a cold that and when I travel I do a cold that and when I travel I do a cold shower I do finish with a warm shower so shower I do finish with a warm shower so shower I do finish with a warm shower so um and we'll talk about why that's um and we'll talk about why that's um and we'll talk about why that's probably not the best idea but um and probably not the best idea but um and probably not the best idea but um and I've been doing it for some years now um I've been doing it for some years now um I've been doing it for some years now um on and off uh but so just full on and off uh but so just full on and off uh but so just full disclosure I'm a devotee um and I have disclosure I'm a devotee um and I have disclosure I'm a devotee um and I have family members that uh hate the the cold family members that uh hate the the cold family members that uh hate the the cold but have gotten into it and and are but have gotten into it and and are but have gotten into it and and are starting to like it but they don't and I starting to like it but they don't and I starting to like it but they don't and I don't necessarily like the experience in don't necessarily like the experience in don't necessarily like the experience in the cold water but I love the way I feel the cold water but I love the way I feel the cold water but I love the way I feel when I get out and I have I'm 100% on when I get out and I have I'm 100% on when I get out and I have I'm 100% on that statement about loving it when I that statement about loving it when I that statement about loving it when I get out occasionally it feels good to be get out occasionally it feels good to be get out occasionally it feels good to be in there it feels invigorating and I in there it feels invigorating and I in there it feels invigorating and I think I've learned to control the gasp think I've learned to control the gasp think I've learned to control the gasp reflex and the hyperventilation and I

1:11reflex and the hyperventilation and I reflex and the hyperventilation and I just have told myself what we know which just have told myself what we know which just have told myself what we know which is that the forbrain struggles to engage is that the forbrain struggles to engage is that the forbrain struggles to engage for the first 20 or 30 seconds but if for the first 20 or 30 seconds but if for the first 20 or 30 seconds but if you can get past that wall it's it's far you can get past that wall it's it's far you can get past that wall it's it's far easier to to push through um but when easier to to push through um but when easier to to push through um but when you say that it was really uncomfortable you say that it was really uncomfortable you say that it was really uncomfortable do you mean the experience of getting in do you mean the experience of getting in do you mean the experience of getting in or you also felt lousy afterward yeah or you also felt lousy afterward yeah or you also felt lousy afterward yeah it's and very important to clear that it's and very important to clear that it's and very important to clear that out I only felt very uncomfortable doing out I only felt very uncomfortable doing out I only felt very uncomfortable doing it at the moment but afterwards the it at the moment but afterwards the it at the moment but afterwards the first time I went uh with with a group first time I went uh with with a group first time I went uh with with a group and actually my husband was there as and actually my husband was there as and actually my husband was there as well because I I really wanted someone I well because I I really wanted someone I well because I I really wanted someone I knew um coming along because it's very knew um coming along because it's very knew um coming along because it's very normal if you haven't done this before normal if you haven't done this before normal if you haven't done this before you feel a little bit anxious about it you feel a little bit anxious about it you feel a little bit anxious about it in this is shown in studies as well in this is shown in studies as well in this is shown in studies as well because blood pressure and heart rate because blood pressure and heart rate because blood pressure and heart rate goes up in in those who are new to this goes up in in those who are new to this goes up in in those who are new to this kind of activity so um I was a little kind of activity so um I was a little kind of activity so um I was a little bit anxious about it so it was really bit anxious about it so it was really bit anxious about it so it was really uncomfortable just doing it but uncomfortable just doing it but uncomfortable just doing it but afterwards as soon as I got up I felt afterwards as soon as I got up I felt afterwards as soon as I got up I felt fantastic and we went into the SAA and I fantastic and we went into the SAA and I fantastic and we went into the SAA and I did three rounds because I just loved it

1:12did three rounds because I just loved it did three rounds because I just loved it I loved the feeling afterwards because I loved the feeling afterwards because I loved the feeling afterwards because you have all these neutr transmitters you have all these neutr transmitters you have all these neutr transmitters going in your brain and you feel more going in your brain and you feel more going in your brain and you feel more positive you feel I feel invigorated I positive you feel I feel invigorated I positive you feel I feel invigorated I had so much energy uh and that like I I had so much energy uh and that like I I had so much energy uh and that like I I could totally see why people would do could totally see why people would do could totally see why people would do this to get energy throughout the day this to get energy throughout the day this to get energy throughout the day because I definitely had that I didn't because I definitely had that I didn't because I definitely had that I didn't have to do three dips to to get that I have to do three dips to to get that I have to do three dips to to get that I think one would be enough and I often do think one would be enough and I often do think one would be enough and I often do that also now today I do one dip that also now today I do one dip that also now today I do one dip sometimes I do two or three uh dips um sometimes I do two or three uh dips um sometimes I do two or three uh dips um in in one round you can say in one day in in one round you can say in one day in in one round you can say in one day but uh often it's like just one or two but uh often it's like just one or two but uh often it's like just one or two times a week for me that is enough to to times a week for me that is enough to to times a week for me that is enough to to get that energy and to get that positive get that energy and to get that positive get that energy and to get that positive feeling and and I think that that is feeling and and I think that that is feeling and and I think that that is also why I I put up my study in that way also why I I put up my study in that way also why I I put up my study in that way I wanted to study the lowest dose you I wanted to study the lowest dose you I wanted to study the lowest dose you can say the lowest amount that we can can say the lowest amount that we can can say the lowest amount that we can get away with but still see um health get away with but still see um health get away with but still see um health benefits so what I observed there on the benefits so what I observed there on the benefits so what I observed there on the jetty was that some did it a long time

1:13jetty was that some did it a long time jetty was that some did it a long time they were in the water for a very long they were in the water for a very long they were in the water for a very long time and to me it seemed maybe a little time and to me it seemed maybe a little time and to me it seemed maybe a little bit extreme could you give me an example bit extreme could you give me an example bit extreme could you give me an example of long time well so maybe they were of long time well so maybe they were of long time well so maybe they were like really swimming and it could be 20 like really swimming and it could be 20 like really swimming and it could be 20 minutes or half an hours that's a long minutes or half an hours that's a long minutes or half an hours that's a long time that's a long time and there was time that's a long time and there was time that's a long time and there was like ice and people who came up I I mean like ice and people who came up I I mean like ice and people who came up I I mean I just didn't really feel that this is a I just didn't really feel that this is a I just didn't really feel that this is a something that I wanted to go out and something that I wanted to go out and something that I wanted to go out and recommend to people after my you want recommend to people after my you want recommend to people after my you want any research subject dying either any research subject dying either any research subject dying either because if you're not adapted I mean because if you're not adapted I mean because if you're not adapted I mean people you know people can do that also people you know people can do that also people you know people can do that also a 20 minute cold shower or 20 minute a 20 minute cold shower or 20 minute a 20 minute cold shower or 20 minute cold plunge I know people do it but it's cold plunge I know people do it but it's cold plunge I know people do it but it's probably not a good idea no probably not probably not a good idea no probably not probably not a good idea no probably not it's going to exhaust your cells and a it's going to exhaust your cells and a it's going to exhaust your cells and a them make them age too fast so exactly them make them age too fast so exactly them make them age too fast so exactly that's uh when you pass that hematic that's uh when you pass that hematic that's uh when you pass that hematic stress this the healthy stress level stress this the healthy stress level stress this the healthy stress level that's what is happening the quite that's what is happening the quite that's what is happening the quite opposite is it's a almost chronic stress opposite is it's a almost chronic stress opposite is it's a almost chronic stress actually in the cells well what happened actually in the cells well what happened actually in the cells well what happened then was that um I found out if if I then was that um I found out if if I then was that um I found out if if I want to have this protocol get through want to have this protocol get through want to have this protocol get through ethical committee I I really needed to

1:14ethical committee I I really needed to ethical committee I I really needed to go like very like Sleek with the not too go like very like Sleek with the not too go like very like Sleek with the not too long and and make sure that they were long and and make sure that they were long and and make sure that they were also very healthy and and to get also very healthy and and to get also very healthy and and to get approval of course of this study um but approval of course of this study um but approval of course of this study um but what I did was to to recruit winter what I did was to to recruit winter what I did was to to recruit winter swimmers who already have been swimming swimmers who already have been swimming swimmers who already have been swimming for two or three seasons and I just for two or three seasons and I just for two or three seasons and I just observed them I said I'm not going to do observed them I said I'm not going to do observed them I said I'm not going to do an intervention study yet I did that an intervention study yet I did that an intervention study yet I did that after but I I wanted to do like a proof after but I I wanted to do like a proof after but I I wanted to do like a proof of concept where they were already of concept where they were already of concept where they were already adapted to the cold and then compare adapted to the cold and then compare adapted to the cold and then compare them to a match control group who were them to a match control group who were them to a match control group who were matched on um on you can say diet so matched on um on you can say diet so matched on um on you can say diet so were they vegetarian or not um and one were they vegetarian or not um and one were they vegetarian or not um and one of them was in each group uh also they of them was in each group uh also they of them was in each group uh also they weren't all vegetarians no no no just weren't all vegetarians no no no just weren't all vegetarians no no no just one in each group I was going to say one in each group I was going to say one in each group I was going to say with all the amazing fish and meat in uh with all the amazing fish and meat in uh with all the amazing fish and meat in uh in Denmark I'd have a hard time being a in Denmark I'd have a hard time being a in Denmark I'd have a hard time being a vegetarian the breads are amazing the vegetarian the breads are amazing the vegetarian the breads are amazing the fruits and vegetables too but okay so fruits and vegetables too but okay so fruits and vegetables too but okay so there were a couple vegetarians in each there were a couple vegetarians in each there were a couple vegetarians in each group yeah one one in each yeah okay group yeah one one in each yeah okay group yeah one one in each yeah okay andk vegetarian I have family members andk vegetarian I have family members andk vegetarian I have family members are vegetarian so I'm just poking

1:15are vegetarian so I'm just poking are vegetarian so I'm just poking fun yeah but then were they were matched fun yeah but then were they were matched fun yeah but then were they were matched on different things so what we usually on different things so what we usually on different things so what we usually match them on is also BMI um we chose match them on is also BMI um we chose match them on is also BMI um we chose one gender in this study and we would one gender in this study and we would one gender in this study and we would always choose both men and women always choose both men and women always choose both men and women normally but we do see that there are normally but we do see that there are normally but we do see that there are different Brown fat levels uh depending different Brown fat levels uh depending different Brown fat levels uh depending on gender so women have more Brown fat on gender so women have more Brown fat on gender so women have more Brown fat than men really M hm yeah interesting than men really M hm yeah interesting than men really M hm yeah interesting yeah I think it's interesting uh that yeah I think it's interesting uh that yeah I think it's interesting uh that deserves study yeah why actually I think deserves study yeah why actually I think deserves study yeah why actually I think it's interesting because women are also it's interesting because women are also it's interesting because women are also smaller so in size in Mass right but smaller so in size in Mass right but smaller so in size in Mass right but they also have um a lower peripheral they also have um a lower peripheral they also have um a lower peripheral temperature especially on hands and ears temperature especially on hands and ears temperature especially on hands and ears and is that right that's that's and is that right that's that's and is that right that's that's documented that women do run colder than documented that women do run colder than documented that women do run colder than men yeah and there's physiologically I men yeah and there's physiologically I men yeah and there's physiologically I didn't say psychological no no no we didn't say psychological no no no we didn't say psychological no no no we won't we won't go to the psychological won't we won't go to the psychological won't we won't go to the psychological cold cold heat that's different cold cold heat that's different cold cold heat that's different something else that's a different something else that's a different something else that's a different podcast yeah another time so women are

1:16podcast yeah another time so women are podcast yeah another time so women are just colder physically uh so on hands just colder physically uh so on hands just colder physically uh so on hands and ears it's measured on that um and and ears it's measured on that um and and ears it's measured on that um and and and feet as well so compared to men and and feet as well so compared to men and and feet as well so compared to men and men have bigger oh oh [Music]

1:17[Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] than women and they can pump out more than women and they can pump out more blood peripher than in a woman's body so blood peripher than in a woman's body so blood peripher than in a woman's body so they that could be an explanation for they that could be an explanation for they that could be an explanation for the colder hands for example theroc the colder hands for example theroc the colder hands for example theroc comfortable state is also different comfortable state is also different comfortable state is also different between genders so men are more between genders so men are more between genders so men are more comfortable at 22° C and women are therm comfortable at 22° C and women are therm comfortable at 22° C and women are therm comfortable at 24 degrees celius and comfortable at 24 degrees celius and comfortable at 24 degrees celius and this is so the thermostat Wars of home this is so the thermostat Wars of home this is so the thermostat Wars of home have been now validated yes 2 degrees have been now validated yes 2 degrees have been now validated yes 2 degrees CSI by the way prior to um starting CSI by the way prior to um starting CSI by the way prior to um starting recording uh I made the executive recording uh I made the executive recording uh I made the executive decision that we were going to go with decision that we were going to go with decision that we were going to go with Celsius throughout the podcast um Celsius throughout the podcast um Celsius throughout the podcast um because the majority of the world uses because the majority of the world uses because the majority of the world uses Celsius so for those of you that think Celsius so for those of you that think Celsius so for those of you that think in Fahrenheit um the internet is your in Fahrenheit um the internet is your in Fahrenheit um the internet is your friend in making those conversions so

1:18friend in making those conversions so friend in making those conversions so we're sticking with Celsius so men tend we're sticking with Celsius so men tend we're sticking with Celsius so men tend to be Thermo comfortable at 22 degrees C to be Thermo comfortable at 22 degrees C to be Thermo comfortable at 22 degrees C women at women at women at 24 okay interesting explains a lot about 24 okay interesting explains a lot about 24 okay interesting explains a lot about like also some arguments in the homes like also some arguments in the homes like also some arguments in the homes where men are turning down the heater where men are turning down the heater where men are turning down the heater and women are turning up the heater and and women are turning up the heater and and women are turning up the heater and they cannot really so it's it's really they cannot really so it's it's really they cannot really so it's it's really it's I'm on both sides here I understand it's I'm on both sides here I understand it's I'm on both sides here I understand the men we understand the women but it the men we understand the women but it the men we understand the women but it there is a difference there which was there is a difference there which was there is a difference there which was also one of the reasons why we had we in also one of the reasons why we had we in also one of the reasons why we had we in this proof of concept study chose one this proof of concept study chose one this proof of concept study chose one gender so it is not like only because we gender so it is not like only because we gender so it is not like only because we wanted to study men it was just to see wanted to study men it was just to see wanted to study men it was just to see to eliminate H all the confounding to eliminate H all the confounding to eliminate H all the confounding factors which could have an impact on on factors which could have an impact on on factors which could have an impact on on our results so um that was one of the our results so um that was one of the our results so um that was one of the reasons um but also because we yeah so reasons um but also because we yeah so reasons um but also because we yeah so women have have more Brown fat than men women have have more Brown fat than men women have have more Brown fat than men and otherwise we would have to like do and otherwise we would have to like do and otherwise we would have to like do four groups or something like that and four groups or something like that and four groups or something like that and not having funding yet we were like okay not having funding yet we were like okay not having funding yet we were like okay we need to do like just one a group just we need to do like just one a group just we need to do like just one a group just a control group and then a and a group

1:19a control group and then a and a group a control group and then a and a group who always winter swimmers so I who always winter swimmers so I who always winter swimmers so I recruited winter swimmers who have been recruited winter swimmers who have been recruited winter swimmers who have been swimming for two to three seasons um swimming for two to three seasons um swimming for two to three seasons um because I wanted them to be already because I wanted them to be already because I wanted them to be already adapted but not going too long in the adapted but not going too long in the adapted but not going too long in the water so they told me uh I did a lot of water so they told me uh I did a lot of water so they told me uh I did a lot of screening here of course beforehand and screening here of course beforehand and screening here of course beforehand and interviews to see to ask them how much interviews to see to ask them how much interviews to see to ask them how much do you do and um how much do you how do you do and um how much do you how do you do and um how much do you how long to stay in the water and I um long to stay in the water and I um long to stay in the water and I um monitored how long did they didn't stay monitored how long did they didn't stay monitored how long did they didn't stay in the water and recruited based on um in the water and recruited based on um in the water and recruited based on um that they only did like two to three that they only did like two to three that they only did like two to three times per week it seems reasonable uh times per week it seems reasonable uh times per week it seems reasonable uh for for for Denmark at least to do that for for for Denmark at least to do that for for for Denmark at least to do that and they stayed only in the water for and they stayed only in the water for and they stayed only in the water for one to two minutes so the co subsides one to two minutes so the co subsides one to two minutes so the co subsides very quickly and you will get this very quickly and you will get this very quickly and you will get this activation off

Andrew Huberman 2024 How to Use Cold Heat Exposure to Improve Your Health Huberm