Active Recovery Explained Benefits of Sauna Ice Bath Breathwork Story Behind KEE
00:00So I was diagnosed with cancer basically like two months or three months after we have started with this. And yeah, I mean there are like multiple dimensions we could talk about. The relevance has become much, much, much more clear. I mean it's like there's a clear like guiding, guiding star in this project. Yeah. But then, yeah, then it's also like, I think also the tools for myself. I mean like, like thinking about myself in hospital. I mean the way I regulated my nervous system and I regulated myself was exactly through breath work. This is the way how I think at the end of the day when I had tough times in the hospital, this is like what helped me as well.
03:00Good, good. Let's do it. So we have here David and David, what's your background? Where are you coming from? From what you did before and now at (KEEN) Wellbeing? So I wouldn't say like I have like this "Roter Faden" (straight path). So my journey has had like multiple different like changes. So like initially I started like in business as many of us do. I went into consulting so like I think a very traditional way. Then I found out that like in consulting the more creative part is what really, really attracts me. So I changed from business into design. I did some other studies. I did a product master, Product design master as well.
04:00And then I was like okay. So I basically could at some point combine my interests but also l somehow with my passion and I think this was more like my professional way. But then at some point like in parallel sports was always like THE big thing for me. So the big passion. It's basically how I spent my time. I think it's also, it was at some point a coping mechanism for many, many things. For stress as well. I would also say like for yeah for some emotional topics as well. And while I was doing sports I went more and more into extreme sports. So for example? I was an ironman and powerman athlete. Wow. So yeah, like, like at some point this entire topic like came up right. Because you go into extremes on a performance level, on an endurance level. But then what do you do for your recovery?
05:00And I think this was very much my journey because I felt my body needed recovery. And at the end of the day it it was not just a physical recovery. Right. At some point it was also the emotional recovery. And that then also brought me into meditation. And I think that was a couple of years ago when I then really dove more and more into meditation. I also did the meditation teachers training. And at that point this all really to get to know myself. Why? Yeah, why. Why did you think this would was necessary? Why this would help me? Why did you think this? You could think that like a good looking guy doing an iron man being sporty... So why? Why do you need to do that? I think I was very much always interested in, like, in transformational topics. And I think back then
06:00it was more like, how can I get better? How do I get better? And I think, in sports it's very transactional, right? You get better when you have the best times. You get better the faster you are. And I, think for me it was really at some point, on an emotional level, I realized that, the speed and the speed of my life, the speed of my journey was too fast to still have the control about what what is really going on. And then Yeah, this entire thing, this entire topic about who am I in this world and, who do I want to become - I think this really came in parallel with it - with also, Yeah, with mindfulness. With the entire, mindfulness practices. And is it connected to you then Founding Co Founding KEEN? This company? Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. But I think there was
07:00an entire, like, process already before. I think it was more so these practices and this combination of it. So I mean, at the end of the day, It was living in between extremes. Like, I was like training for an ironman, like training one, two times a day and then at the same time trying to go into the complete stillness, through meditation. And it was very funny because at some point I tried to get to Hawaii, which for an Ironman is like the biggest thing, right. Like the championship, the world championship. And I changed my trainer. Basically my coach. So my coach was a shamanic person. So he was also like an ironman athlete back when he was young. But then he went into the shamanic journey. And for me, this was the first time where I could really connect those two worlds. I was always struck by the fact that I think especially in the Western world, it's very clear that
08:00movement is important. People work out. Yeah, looking good, like, matters a lot. To go to the gym - that's very clear. But we don't have the same approach for mental health. And there's also no gym (for that). There's therapy. There's now coaching is coming up quite a bit, but there's still a wild stigma. And I think that's when I met David and the idea was: Can we create somethingpreventative, something that can be integrated into your daily routine? That - and I think that was kind of the learning for us - that isn't just mental health, but that works holistically. So if we're speaking mentally, emotionally, physically and also socially, because these are all elements that are crucial. That sounds familiar. Well, it's becoming a thing and I think it's becoming a thing for a reason. Like this is, this is I think it has a lot to do with where we're at (in the world right now). What is your personal vision,
09:00with KEEN? For the company or my personal vision? Both? Maybe let's start with the personal. I think at the end of the day, I mean this is my first company that I found, my first for profit company. My personal goal was always to do something that inspires me, where I feel I contribute to something that matters, that is socially relevant and to build a company on the values that that matter to me. So to integrate to, to co create, to, to include feelings, to, to create connection. I think that was a personal goal of mine. And if I now one year later, if I look at the team of almost 20 people that we have, I really puts me in awe. That feels really, really good. And I'm excited to see where we can go together. But I think for me it's less about getting somewhere. But how, how are we building this company and is that it
10:00aligned with what matters to me and the values that I hold and I think for keen concretely where we want to go, we want to be the leading provider of active recovery. I think that's really the topic that we've, we're kind of really obsessed with. Can you maybe also elaborate a bit on this active recovery part? I mean there's contrast. So ice and sauna, which is we're very much known for. If we're known. For those who know us, active recovery is a new trend where there's, let's say for example sleep, would be a passive recovery where meditation is also less accessible. And the goal for us is really to see at the end of the day what happens is people work, work a lot. And when you're stressed, your nervous system kind of becomes dysregulated in most cases what people do then they then do a hiit workout or whatnot.
11:00And what happens with nervous system. You're constantly up, you're constantly in fight, flight, freeze mode. And for us, active recovery. And it's active because you're doing something and it's not just like, okay, like I'm hanging out now, but it's: What are the tools that are accessible and available that you can regulate, that you can come back? And it's not just passive relaxation, but it's stuff like for example, functional mobility. It is the ice bath where you learn to self regulate. It is the sauna, it's the breath work. And we just try, we're good, I think, at playing around with different tools. And we try to create a broad portfolio of offerings so that you can kind of check in and see am I super exhausted and do I need rest or am I super anxious? And I actually just more rather I need to calm down. That's a different, that's a different type of active recovery that you're looking for. But at the end of the day I think our core belief is that we are our best version when we're not stuck in survival mode, but when we're connected with
12:00ourselves and when our nervous system is regulated. And active recovery is the tool for that. So you would say also it's not only for, okay, I'm super stressed, and then I need to do active recovery but you can also do it, like as a tool just to calm yourself down and get to yourself? It can be I'm exhausted or hey, how can I get the best start into my day? What does my body and my brain need to actually perform together? A way to get rid of the brain fog. But it's also, for example for athletes, like if you train a lot, and David can share a bit about this. We know how important recovery is, but people don't take the time because it, it requires a lot of discipline. And also the physical like myofascial release. For example, like if you work out, what do you do on your rest day? A lot of top athletes will tell you how important recovery is for long term performance. So we really try to offer classes, but also individual treatments that work mentally,
13:00and also socially. And that's where the, the social event really play a role. And do you really think this combination of external factor, so like physical factors to the like inner factors, creates an exponential effect like that you become better? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At the end of the day, I think like, I mean there's like, there's always science, right, which says or which talks about the benefits, which talks about the effects of recovery. And then there's also the feeling. It's my feeling and it's my experience. And I know now also how important those phases of basically, of recovery, of, regeneration, has helped me to, at the end, get better in whatever I've done. Like, I mean, sport is one aspect, right? But it gave me space. It gave me also space in the professional world, When I had the space
14:00through meditation. It gave me enough space to also be more creative, whether it was as a designer or whether it was as a as a founder at the end of the day. And yeah, at some point, this topic of recovery, I mean, at the end of the day I really got obsessed with the topic because, like, it was like, it was more than just Like a passion, I would say. So it really got into a topic. I was like. It was. It was with me every day. Every single day. I try to optimize my life And I think for me, this part of recovery, but also this topic of mindfulness, has become a central aspect of my life. To get better. In any sense, whether it's, like, physical, whether it's mental or whether it's, emotional.
15:00Do you think this is something where especially men have I Would say a more difficult time? Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, maybe also talking from your own experience? For sure, 100%. I think all the mindfulness practices, I think they oftentimes have I would say, like a very still, a very feminine energy. So for a lot of men, there is no way to access this world. No way. And I think it has also changed. I mean, I remember, like, the first retreat I visited or I visited. I was I think I was like 17 or 16 years old, and I visited that with my mom. And I remember, like, there was no single man. And, I went back into retreats, like, every year,
16:00one or two retreats. And it has changed. So there are more and more men coming into this world. And I think there's also, like, there's a differences depending on what practice you go and You visit. So I think in meditation it has become a central part. And that's like, also that you see more and more men and in breathwork as well. And, yeah, I think that's also like, what we, like, try to also change a bit with KEEN, right? It's like A: What is the entry point? At the end of the day It's oftentimes it's the way you visualize things, the way you communicate to your audience. And, yeah, we try to break that barrier also a bit with this, project. So it's like Keen, basically, the branding of Keen and the way we talk is very much It's very much like a lifestyle brand. It could be like. Like, Like a Like, could be like, ON. It could be like
17:00a supreme brand. That's how we look like and that's how we feel like. And, yeah, that's how we at least, it's our hypothesis that this is our way, how we could bring in more people as well. And also then the communication. How do you talk to men? Like, what is essential for them to get to know? And I think, yeah, I think there is still a huge potential to break barriers and to create, To create like an entry point for men as well. But, why would they do this? Like, why? Why would this be beneficial for a man? I mean, at the end there's also, like, two ways to talk about it. It's like my experience, like, from my experience, It's like whatever, however we want to call it, whether we want to call it Emotional transformation or What do we want to call it? Physical recovery? Whatever we do, it's like, it's the, way. of the day
18:00to create a better performance. Whatever it is, whether it's in your relationships, whether it's like, like in sports or whether it's in your professional world, it has an impact on, on your person, on your personality. I mean, it's I think it's very simple. If you want to get better as a person - And whatever better means - Better It has a connotation - but whatever this means I mean, at the end of the day, you have to work on yourself. It's like transformation only happens if you change. And change is, It's hard. Like, change is difficult and change is work. And like, work is never easy. I mean, There are easier ways to go through life, but at the end of the day, I think if you really want to grow as a person. in whatever dimension. Emotional, physical, mental, but also social. You have to
19:00do the work and you have to get to know yourself and how you react in certain situations. And something like KEEN Wellbeing would be a good entry point for for that? Is that what I hear from you? I mean, like, depending on the target audience and depending on what you look for. Or what you wish for. But KEEN - and that's what we see, we have tested this concept a year - we have like, Our ratio is 50 / 50. So we have 50% men and we have 50% female visitors. And I think compared to other concepts that I have seen in the past, especially in the spiritual world, this is, there is There is a difference for sure. Yes. And I think it is. Yeah, there is There is something about these topics that resonates a lot with
20:00with men as well. And I can only guess what it is. I can only guess. the thing that those tools deliver is like, there is there's science behind. So, you get why you do what you're doing here. It's not just like you do something and you only feel it. But also like, you know, there is something happening on a physiological level as well. And I think this is one part. And I think this is something where I at least think and this is just my, hypothesis that this is something that attracts men as. Talking about the physiological effects: Is there something specific for this kind of order of breath work, sauna, ice bath,
21:00like has it something to do with the effects? How we combine it? I mean, like what we do, the classes we give, they're always like, based on protocols. So there's always a science behind it. Like, so when we start like with breath work, like, what are the techniques we choose? This is like carefully chosen based on what are the scientific protocols that are out there. And then also in combination with the ice bath. And then also, like for example, another, another, example is our saunas. They have different temperatures and different humidities. All of that is like, based on protocols that exist here. I mean, basically in the scientific world. Do you know something about the actual physical physiological effects that happen? In the ice bath?
22:00With breath work, there are like physiological benefits. I mean it's probably the same that you have heard in the retreats. So from mental clarity to reducing anxiety. Like those are, the main benefits. Also to regulate your nervous system. Those are like the physiological benefits. Then in the ice bath, like, there is like, there's a release of, of neurochemicals, so of dopamine, and this really brings this mental clarity But then there are also other side effects that you see in, that you seei in science. And it increases the metabolism. It reduces the soreness of your muscles. Those are all elements that you see today in science as well. And then with the sauna, it's, I mean, the longest study that
23:00has been done in science about cardiovascular health has been in combination with, with sauna. And it showed that like, people using sauna, like on a weekly basis, on a daily basis, they can reduce or they can like improve Their cardiovascular health, but also like they reduced the mortality rate, to like 40%. So there's like a lot of science, that is out there. And it's not just, I would say, like, it's not just, it's not just a trend. Like ice bathing is not a trend. Like, it has been there since ever just in other countries. Yeah, it has been there forever. David, maybe, maybe last question. You, you said you, you shared, you, you went through a difficult time, this year and also how, how this, what you're doing here helped you maybe also to succeed? Yeah, exactly.
24:00And yeah, I mean there are like multiple dimensions we could talk about, but there's definitely like from a business perspective, it definitely gave much more depth in this project. Like, like the WHY got even more important. So like, it's not just like, I would say, like, like a motivation or like, just a project that I realized that is important or where I also see the market going into. But it's like, I mean it has become basically more or less like who I am and like what I went through, like the relevance has become much, much, much more clear. I mean it's like there's a clear guiding, guiding star in this project. But then Yeah, then it's also I think also the tools for myself. I mean thinking
25:00exactly through breathwork. at the end of the day, in the hospital, this is what helped me, as well. So I think there is There was also, I would say even though I have practices or practiced the tools the last couple of years, but I think there has been a shift from like understanding them on a cognitive level to really feel and embody The relevance of them And yeah, I think those are two main points and main dimensions that have once again changed. That's beautiful. Not just like a theoretical, but a real practical
26:00application. So you kind of try to build alternative nightlife. Maybe you can tell us about this? So for us, I mean, community has always. That's why we're also called Active Recovery club. Like the. So. So you can go to the club. It's just a different kind of club. Well, I mean, at some points there will be bouncers At some point, no. I mean there's some contraindications for the ice. I think that That would be the bouncers. But, the idea long term is for us to I mean, that's why we also created a super large Sauna because people connect and like, if you look at every culture in the world, like sweat houses or the onsen, this is also where we very much come from. We see especially in the younger generations, there's a step away from alcohol or like people aren't really ready anymore to pay To pay the price of what
27:00it means to go out. And so we wanted to create something that is light and fun and where you have really good music, but where, you know, where you can hang out. The same thing you would do in a bar without kind of this booze and drinks and whatnot. Super cool version of that. Nice. Thank you! Zurich is so much better than Munich, right? Look, you don't have that.